Transcript

Stephen McDowell looks at God's hand in the birth and development of America

>> Stephen McDowell: Welcome to America's Providential History Podcast, where we talk about the real story of America and explore the hand of God in our history. Now, here's your host, Stephen McDowell. Hello. Glad you're joining us for this edition of America's Providential History Podcast, the last number of podcasts. We have been looking at God's hand in the birth and growth and, and development of the United States of America. And we observed that without God in the Bible, there would be no United States as we know it today. And so we looked at some events from the very beginning of colonization, how God's hand was involved in planting the original colonies. We saw God at work during the American Revolution when he moved on our behalf, supporting the cause of America and liberty and giving birth to the exceptional nation of America. And then we also began to examine the growth of the American Republic and the principles of government and economics and liberty that this nation embraced provided an atmosphere for flourishing. And the nation began to grow and to flourish. And people were free to get ideas, to create wealth and build and create new things that were a great blessing to the nation at large. But then we also looked at the need for revival, for liberty to grow. Tendency of man is to grow cold in his faith. And God and his mercy understands that. And so throughout history has continued to pour out His Holy Spirit to open the eyes of his people, to ignite the flame that was within us. We saw the First Great Awakening gave birth to, to the American Revolution. And then, we also then began to look at the Second Great Awakening, how God began to pour out His Holy Spirit in the late 1790s and 1800s, in the early part of the 1800s, which was vital for the life of the American nation and the republic, to grow. And so the Second Great Awakening, much good fruit came forth from that. Millions of people were converted to Christ. Morality increased within the nation. The church grew. And as we will, discuss today in more detail here shortly, that slavery ended in large part due to the impetus of renewed biblical values. So many good things came out of the Second Great Awakening. However, the seeds of, pietism began to be planted as well. Pietism is the belief that God's only concern with our relationship to him and the eternal hereafter. He's not that concerned with what's going on here on this earth. And therefore this concept caused many to emphasize in their preaching, just converting individuals. After all, if the world's a sinking ship, our only job is to save a few people off that sinking ship. And so some of the great revivalists that God used to convert. Many like DL Moody unfortunately embraced this idea. And Scofield produced a reference Bible in the late 1800s and he popularized this idea of the world's a sinking ship by polished brass on a sinking ship, mentality. So many good things came out of it. But the seeds that have impacted the 20th century and caused the church to retreat from influencing culture, the very church that gave birth to our laws and institutions then began to retreat from that, allowing the ungodly to assume positions of leadership that was for the first few centuries provided by Christians. But true revivals bring forth permanent transformation by changing not only men, but changing institutions and changing laws. You know, there are many truths that came forth in all revivals. And the Protestant Reformation, First Great Awakening, even the second Great Awakening includes emphasis on the sovereignty of God. This is God's world. We live in his world. He's directing events to accomplish his purpose for man. Along with the sovereignty of God, there's also the responsibility of man. God is 100% sovereign, but man is 100% responsible to obey God, fulfill the mission that he's given us, to be good stewards and to fulfill the calling that he's given us. That's also emphasized in biblical revivals. We see the concept of holiness. Listen to the Lord as well. Because revivals produce a, ah, God consciousness. Purity follows being revived. When we are revived individually, our desire is to imitate him and follow after Him. And this will occur in biblical revivals as well. And we see the emphasis and the establishment of the work of the kingdom that we see that in many different ways demonstrated. One is just compassion demonstrated through societal change. Because God wants to bring an environment of flourishing for mankind, bring an environment of blessing to man. And so in the United states in the 1800s, because of God continuing to move and because of the seeds that were planted by the founding generation, that good fruit began to come forth. This is demonstrated in many ways. For example, we see the Christian philosophy of government that was the foundation of American polity manifested in different ways. You know, the state did in Europe what the private sector did in America. This was a big difference. Europe still had a pagan concept of government, man centered, top down government. In the United States it was based upon Christian self government, man governing himself under God and God's law. So how was that manifested? Well one, in America we had numerous voluntary associations established to do every work imaginable. Alexis de Tocqueville in his work Democracy in America Records how, these Americans came together and formed these voluntary associations to provide every sort of need imaginable, from caring for the poor to, educating individuals, to getting Bibles distributed to individuals. what the government attempted to do in Europe, he observed, the Americans did it on a voluntary basis and much better. For example, you know, France gave support to Daguerre, who, kind of invented the telegraph, among other things that he did. But here in the United, he didn't really invent. He helped develop the telegraph for use in France. It was Samuel F.B. morse who developed, developed the telegraph, invented the telegraph. We discussed, briefly his work in previous, podcast. But Morris, after developing the telegraph, he promoted it and brought advancements and utilized it, from the private sector without any government, support. While in France, the government tried to promote this concept. And so if you compare the growth of the telegraph in the US And Europe, as one historian wrote, while England by her government had got, with great labor, 175 miles of telegraph into operation, the United States with her individual enterprise, is now in successful operation. 1269 miles. This is American enterprise. So American enterprise is based upon the idea of the individual initiative. Individuals get ideas, create wealth. Individuals work to bring productivity because they benefit from the fruit of their labor, which encourages more labor. And this labor produces rapid advancement. This is just one example of laying the telegraph lines in the US Compared to, say, England or other European, states. This is applying the Christian philosophy of government, Christian philosophy of economics, freedom that existed here, how freedom brings flourishing. Freedom brings prosperity. Liberty brings prosperity. And the Christian faith is the source of that liberty. So there are many other examples. In future podcast, we'll look at some of the other flourishing that occurred in the United States because of the principles of liberty upon which the nation was built.

The influence of Christianity declines due to unbelief, corruption of doctrine and neglect of institutions

But during the 1800s. So you have this flourishing, you have God sent him revival. But we also see the seeds of the diminishing influence of Christianity in the nation. Remember, the Christian faith gave birth to the free nation of America, the reason that we existed. And so there were factors that began to contribute to its diminishing influence. we will look, later in future podcast of how Jedediah Morris preached a sermon. He's the father of geography in America and the father of Samuel. FB Morse invented the telegraph. But he's. He said that the influence of Christianity, declines due to, unbelief, corruption of doctrine and neglect of institutions. That's in a sermon he preached in 1799. So when people don't believe, obviously in Christianity will influence corruption of doctrine. And this is, is, this is not the correct. It's the corruption of doctrine, yes, of the failure to understand the basic theological truths or believe the basic theological truths of Christ's atoning work and things like this. But in particular though he was referencing the corruption of doctrine, of the failure to understand the lordship of Christ, the sovereignty of God, the providence of God, that God is sovereign and, and is at work. it's kind of one of those aspects of corruption of doctrine is embracing pietism. This fails to recognize the lordship of Christ over his creation, that he's sovereign and his sovereignty too, that he's sovereign and created not just heaven but the earth as well. And he's created man, put him in the earth and gave him a mission to rule over the earth. Not retreat from the earth and abandon ship, but to direct the ship of state. Then the neglect of institutions is a third way of the diminishing influence of Christianity. Christians who gave birth to education and government and economics began to retreat, neglect those institutions. They left those institutions. They were filled by the ungodly. And so for example universities, they were all started by the church pastors were the presidents of most every university through most of the 1800s. But with this idea of well, God really doesn't want us involved in these things, that began to change. And so today you see that our universities that were given birth to by the church, by Christians, led by Christians, training them in a biblical philosophy have been taken over by those antithetical to the Christian belief, secularists who attack Christianity directly or indirectly. So those are how the influence of Christianity declines in a nation. But there's some specific things that occurred along these lines in the 1800s United States. You have one, the rise of unity Unitarianism. When Unitarianism began to grow really around the turn of the 18th century, late 1700s, early 1800s, that Unitarianism originally was rooted in biblical Christianity. Its basic tenets. We believe Jesus is the son of God and his atoning, death and resurrection. We believe in the divine nature of the Old and New Testaments. That's how it started. But over time it began to then abandon some of the basic doctrines of the faith and embrace doctrines contrary to Christian truth. And these Unitarians began to take over universities, Harvard, the war became basically unitarian. And early 1805, that, that time, time frame. And then as you move throughout the later in the 1800s you have a influx of non religious immigrants from Europe. So remember the founders of America were basically Protestants that came from many European nations and looked to the Bible as the source of their faith. And so many immigrants came who, who really didn't look to the scripture that way. And then you had an influence of Catholic immigrants as well in Roman Catholicism. The roots of it, as we've mentioned, is not in the, emphasizing biblical Christianity where all the people are given the Bible and to search out the truth in the Bible, know it for themselves, act upon it, build their life, families and societies upon the biblical faith. It was more centered around what the leadership of the church said and listened to them. And a lot of the leadership of the church was not preaching biblical truth. So this began to give a watered down version, if you will, of the Christian faith began to flood into the United states during the 1800s. And then you also had, the rise of materialism began to occur in the 1800s. And cotton mather put it this way. Cotton Mather was that great pastor, Christian leader who wrote Magnalia Christiana Americana, the magnificent works of Christ in America during the 16 really gives a providential view of the history of America during the 1600s in which he made the statement that religion begot prosperity, but the daughter hath consumed the mother. What he was talking about is the Christian faith gave birth to prosperity, flourishing and abundance. God wants his people to prosper, to be blessed in every way, not just materially, but firstly, prosper in our mind, prosper in our spirit, prosper in our relationships, to be blessed in our, Our spirit in. The scripture teaches that we will be blessed when we obey Him. Of course we don't obey to seek the blessing. We obey because he's our king and Lord. But if we do obey, the Bible promises that it will go well with us. But if we disobey his word, we go backwards. Religion begot prosperity. Christian faith begot prosperity in the United States. But the daughter hath consumed the mother. That is, as prosperity took hold of people's lives, they began to put mammon, put this prosperity, put wealth, put material things above God. And God warns us of that. In fact, he warned the children of Israel many places. In the book of Deuteronomy, for example, he said when he delivered them from Egypt and led them into the promised land, he said, when you enter the promised land and prosper, if you obey. So when you enter the promised land and prosper, if you obey. Because if you obey him, he's saying, when you go in the promised land, you will prosper. Then he gives the warning, do not forget me and worship other gods. For if you do, you will perish. And so God warned the children of Israel, prosperity will come if you obey me. But when that happens, don't forget me, because if you do, you will perish. That's what Cotton Mather was saying. And this was a warning to the American people. Look, you will prosper if you obey God. And their desire was to obey God. And they did prosper. But he said, don't forget me. The daughter hath consumed the mother. If you forget God and you put things above God, then that will cause a diminishing influence or downward fall or loss of that prosperity. And so this was another factor that individuals had to deal with in the 1800s and of course, during the 20th century and even today. The great blessing has come from the great liberty that we have. But we have to be careful. Don't put that above God and following him. So it's important that the church continually disciple the nation. You know, the American Revolution was a product of the pulpit. The church built the character and ideas necessary for freedom. And of course the church taught the parents who then transmitted that to children, as we talked about in a previous podcast of how the Bible educated to live in liberty. And it must continually happen. It's not a one time thing. Each generation must fulfill its duty and mission. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. So families must continually educate, providing character and worldview necessary to live free. The church must continually do its job to teach and train parents and everyone in truth. And, it was this pulpit that gave birth to the American Revolution. And as the nation moved toward the mid-1800s, the church failed to carry on the example of the Revolutionary era.

1619 Project claims America is the originator of slavery

In one area where this is especially evident is the whole issue of slavery. Now, slavery is not an American invention. You know, the people behind the 1619 Project have presented false information. They presented this concept that America is really the originator of slavery and our original sin is slavery. And therefore, everything about our founding is wrong. We have to reject the founding heir, reject the founding fathers. But this is just an inaccurate assessment of slavery. Slavery has existed in the world since the fall of man. Every people have enslaved other people. You fought a war, you won the war, you enslaved the people you defeated. And slavery was an issue for all peoples, of all races, of all nations, nationalities, and all the continents. and so slavery came to the Western hemisphere, came to the Americans from the Europeans, because they practiced slavery for centuries and centuries, and it came with them. We didn't invent slavery, we didn't develop slavery. In fact, it was the founders of America that took steps to end slavery. In fact, more so than any other group of people up until that time, the founding father generation took steps to end this social evil that had plagued man from the very beginning. Now, England outlawed slavery in 1833 due to the influence of Christians, especially William Wilberforce and the Clapham Sick, a group of pastors who worked together with him to end it. but America took a, a different road to end slavery, ultimately end all slavery. But even before William Wilberforce took steps, America was taking steps. And, unfortunately, they didn't finish those steps. And so God had to send a war to, ultimately bring an end to this evil that existed in man. Now, it's important to understand the thinking of the founders that we understand what the Bible says about slavery, because the founding generations saw the Bible as the ultimate source of authority, and it spoke to all of life. And they searched the Scriptures to find out what does God have to say about these various issues. So slavery, the Bible teaches slavery in one form or another, including spiritual slavery, mental slavery, physical slavery, as the fruit of disobedience to God and his. His Word. So if we disobey God and reject his truth, we'll be slaves to sin or be slave to our mentality. And sometimes that ends up in physical slavery as well. Now, that doesn't mean that someone finds himself a slave, that it's because of, disobedience. Because, Christians throughout history have found themselves living in slavery because God liberating them internally, but because of the evil of man, they might have lived under slavery during their lifetime. But overall, as liberty is advanced in society and in mankind, slavery has diminished. And the form of slavery, that external forced slavery that exists in the world at the time of the founding, that has been mostly ended, really, even though we still have a lot of sex slaves today in the world, 50 to 75 million sex slaves. And some nations actually still physically enslave one another. So there is still slavery that exists. But where Christian ideas have gone that slavery has more and more been eliminated because slavery is a product of the fall of man. As I said, it's existed in the world since that time. actually, I believe that God, after God gave birth to this Christian nation of America, he wanted this Christian nation to show the world how it would deal with this evil institution of slavery. And they did, began to take steps to end slavery. And in the Bible, we see that there are some laws that speak to this issue of slavery. You have to realize and recognize that when God gave the law To Moses, slavery was part of the world. And so the law of God recognized slavery. It was never God's intent for man to live in slavery, just like it was never man's. God's intent for man to get a divorce. But there are also laws that God gave to Moses that deal with the issue of divorce and allow man to divorce, and allow for the divorce in certain circumstances like fornication and abandonment. But that was God's never intent. He just recognized that fallen sinful man is going to act in such a way that, you're going to have to allow some people to get out of a marriage that is violating their God given rights to life, liberty and property. Same is true of slavery. God never intended for man to live in slavery. In fact, he wants all men to live free. And Christ came so that we can all live in liberty and live in freedom. Spiritual, mental, physical, all, to be set free completely. And that's how we're to strive to live, strive to live free. And so when you go and read the slave laws, which maybe in future podcasts we'll look at in more detail that there were types of slavery permitted in the Bible. There's slavery for thieves or criminals working off restitution. If you stole something, you had to pay back. If you couldn't, you worked to pay off, that debt. the scripture allows for voluntary, permanent slaves, voluntary servitude that some people thought, well, it'd be easier just to serve you than to exert all the energy necessary to live free. And God makes a provision for that, as well. But in the Bible we also see that involuntary servitude is not biblical. See kidnapping and enforced slavery, forbidden and punishable by, death. Any slave that ran away from his master, thus expressing his desire for freedom, was to be welcomed by the Israelites, not mistreated and not returned. So, I've written on the issue of the Bible, slavery in America's founders. You can find it on our website, providencefoundation.com read in much more detail. It's also in our book Building Godly Nations. You can get a copy from our store at providencefoundation, dot com. So God wants all men to live free. God has some laws though, and these slave laws protect those that might find themselves, in bondage, as they are, as the laws are being changed and minds are being changed in order to spread liberty, for man. And so when we look at the founding fathers of America, those who gave birth to our nation, they all Almost all of them believe slavery was fundamentally wrong. Most of the founders opposed slavery because it was inconsistent with the Bible. Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, father of medicine, said domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity. It is rebellion against the authority of a common father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common savior. It is a usurpation of the prerogative of the great sovereign of the universe, who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men. So Rush here was reflecting the view really of the majority of the founding Fathers. George Washington wrote in 1786, I can only say that there's not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery. And so I could give you many more quotes in future podcasts. I'm going to explore this in more detail, this issue. But basically, most of those men, Benjamin Rush and John Adams and others who never owned slaves, spoke strongly against it. But even those who had inherited slaves and maybe as a young man bought some slaves like Washington, when his understanding grew and his conviction grew, he spoke against it, he wrote against it, and he took steps to end it. And in his will, by the way, Washington freed all of his slaves, as many other founding fathers did as that conviction grew. But even those who own slaves were against it. So this is wrong. I can only say that there's not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to adopt a plan, see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery. And so after they gained independence from Great Britain, they then had the freedom to begin to take steps to deal with this, evil institution of slavery. You know, before independence, they actually tried to do so. 1774, the state of Virginia passed legislation that ended the slave trade. And King George III vetoed it. Said, you can't, do that. Other attempts from other colonies were taken to taking steps to, to get rid of slavery, but were thwarted by, England as well. But after independence, they then, began to have the freedom to be able to take action based upon their convictions, as expressed in those quotes from Rush, Washington and I can, and many others as well. During the Revolutionary War, black slaves who fought won their freedom in every state except South Carolina and Georgia. Many of the founders started and served in anti slavery societies as I've mentioned in previous podcasts, and they served as presidents, and served as leadership of these anti slavery societies. The founders opposed slavery based upon the principle of the equality, of all men. After independence, each State had the freedom to deal with various social issues like the issue of slavery, to act on it as they felt they should. In the northern states abolish slavery completely after a few years. In 1789 President George Washington signed the Northwest ordinance which forbid slavery in the Northwest territory. So when new states from the northwest, that'd be Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, those areas when they were to come in to the Union, slavery was for forbidden. So eight states outright abolished slavery.

Washington signed the first anti federal, anti slavery piece of legislation

Washington signed the first anti federal, anti slavery piece of legislation. And then even in the south where slavery was more prominent because of the climate, and agriculture production, was more conducive to people having more slaves there. That actions in the south reveal a strong anti slavery sentiment as well. There are many anti slavery societies started in the south now. you know some people say well what about our Constitution? It seems to be a pro slavery document. That's what Frederick Douglass thought initially, but after he studied he said it's not that at all. It's an anti slavery document. According to the Constitution, Congress had the power to end the slave trade after 20 years. A couple of the states where slavery is predominant said we're not going to join in if you don't, if you try to abolish it outright. And within 20 years though Congress had the power to do something. In fact they did when 20 years was up that they officially ended the slave trade, although it actually in essence ceased after 10 years. some point out what is this three fifths clause in the Constitution. Isn't that an anti slave or slave provision? But counting slaves as three fifths for the purposes of representation was a political compromise between the north and the south, not a statement of person. Because the south wanted to count all of their slaves for population so they get more representatives in the Congress. The north said well you shouldn't be able to count any of those. It's not right to give you more political power by counting slaves which these people ought to be free. So it was as a compromise they said we'll count it as three fifths. So it was really diminishing the political power of the south. to, to, from, from this compromise. The now there was the constitutional provision on runaway slaves and article 4, section 2, paragraph 3 was contrary to biblical slave laws. that this in essence says if a slave runs away, you can go and, and get your slave and bring them back. According to the Bible, if any slave ran away because he wanted to show I want to live Free that the children of Israel were to protect him and keep him. And so that was one, anti biblical provision in the Constitution and that article 4, section 2, paragraph 3. But the founders left most of the power to deal with slavery in the hands of the states because they believed that national government has very little power, just 18 enumerated powers. Article one, that's all the power it has and no more. That was a protection of individual liberty, life, liberty and property. Because they recognize if you centralize power too much and give them too much power, then the people's individual rights and liberties will be diminished. and so the issue like slavery is really, according to the founders thinking, a state issue. They're the ones that will deal with that, deal with things like education, and other stuff. But they left it to the states because they recognized we believed, hey, this is going to be abolished. They immediately took steps. Many, As I said, eight of the 13 original states ended slavery very quickly. They all ended the slave trade. They had, the Northwest ordinance forbid slavery in those new territories. And so the view of the founders was that American slavery was an evil that should be abolished. but that concept, ah, when you get into the 1830s, began to change. They began to have different ideas, than that. and it was over this because some people then, whereas before the founding generation, slavery is an evil, needs to be changed, and they were taking steps to change it. But as you get the succeeding generation after the founding fathers, the next two generations, they began to think differently. They began to think, well, maybe it's not so bad after all. You know, we taking steps, some even begin to justify it biblically, reasoning wrongly from the Scriptures. Interesting enough though, people who try to justify slavery look to the Bible to try to justify their belief. So they were still looking to the Bible as the source. They just, I believe, reason wrongly from the scripture when they tried to keep slavery as an institution instead of continuing to take steps to end it. And so because of this we have the division of the three major denominations. They began to divide. Presbyterians and others began to divide in 1830s and 40s between the north and the South. And as one gentleman wrote a book in the recent times, he talked about divided churches, divided nation. So after the churches began to divide over the issue of slavery, it really was only a matter of time before the nation would divide. So in the 1830s the major denominations split. And after this, as I said, it'd only be a matter of time, before this came forth in the political Life of, of the nation. Now, by 1860, Christianity still influenced the north and the south, all the colonies greatly. now it was, you know, these, these ideas of Unitarianism and Christianity that had separated from biblical foundation that was growing more in the New England colonies, especially, growing there. But the Bible believing Calvinistical Christianity certainly was still centered in the south and the Bible was looked to as the source of belief and life. But regarding the issue of slavery, many of those people in the south who still embraced it did not see clearly, because American slavery certainly differed from Old Testament slavery. And those who attempted to justify slavery by looking to the Scripture, reasoned wrongly and applied some ideas, wrongly to try to maintain that institution. And so I believe because the states did not, all the states did not continue to walk to end this institution of slavery, that God sent a war in order to bring about his ultimate desire because he wanted all men to live free. He wanted this Christian nation of America to show the world what a Christian nation would do to end this evil of slavery that existed since the fall of man. Many in the founding generation began to take steps ending the slave trade, ending slavery, having anti slavery legislation take place, but many, especially those in the south where there are many more slaves, some of them began to justify slavery and failed to continue to take action, to end it. Although it wasn't a majority of Southerners either who embraced this idea of slavery because there's really small minority of people in the south who even owned slaves. About 3% of Southerners owned slaves. Now that represents about 19 or 20% of the population because the head of the household would have owned the slaves, but you have the whole household that would live together. So maybe about one fifth of the Southern household lives in homes where there were slaves. And most of those were just a few domestic house servants. The big large slave plantations were very few, in fact in number. But the people who had these were very politically, influential and they really helped direct some of the issues, in, in the Southern colonies which precipitated and led to the war. And so I do want to in future podcasts take up this issue further on the, on the Civil War because this was tied up in the issue of why Lincoln sent troops to the South. he didn't really send them to end slavery. He didn't think he had the right to do so. But after he's elected to office, South Carolina seceded from the Union and Lincoln sent troops to the south to take back federal property and to bring bring South Carolina back into the Union. It wasn't, didn't send the troops in order to bring about the end of slavery. That would come later on with the emancipation proclamation in 1863. But initially it was to preserve the Union.

In future podcasts we'll discuss how slavery was tied into the Civil War

But in future podcasts I do want to take up this whole issue of, of how the slavery was tied into the Civil War, discuss what God was doing in the Civil War and the positive and negative things that came out of the war. Now we do write about this in some of our books. In our book America's Providential History, we kind of give an overview of what was God doing, what was this war all about, what were God's purposes in this, what came about from that. and certainly slavery was tied up in it, but is also dealing with preserving the Union, states rights and many other things. But again, just to summarize this issue of slavery, this was an issue that did not originate with the founders of America. It existed in the world from all peoples of all races enslave one another. And slavery came to the new world with the Europeans who colonized it. But it was in particular those who settled what became the United States of America that were on the forefront of taking action to end slavery. From when slaves were tried to be introduced there up in Plymouth and the Puritan colonies they rejected it and arrested those who tried to slave them to some of the first early laws ever anti slavery laws written in New England to after independence that states people began to take action to end slavery. No other nation when they outlawed slavery in the states, when Washington signed that Northwest ordinance forbidding slavery, no other nation in the world had taken such action as this. They were leading the way in ending this evil that had plagued mankind and so could have they had done more. Certainly we can look back and say they could have done more and could have done than they did and could have done it more rapidly than they did. But they did take steps but unfortunately they didn't complete the, the task. And so God sent a war, brought judgment on both north and south who were wrong and various things and at the outcome of this war. He did preserve the Union and he ended slavery which were positive things but negative things came about from this as well. But in future podcasts we'll look more at this, the Civil War and even more about this issue of slavery. Well if you want to learn more I would encourage you to pick up our book America's Providential History. You can go to our website, read an article on the Bible, the founders, slavery, founding of America and the Bible. Read that, article and, other things as well. So, this is a, large topic. I've just given a brief introduction to this. There's a whole lot more that we'll address in future generations. But this is one important example of how the church must continually disciple a nation. Because the church is the one who must say, this is the Bible says this is our responsibilities regarding whatever issue it is. This is just one issue of the slavery. There's many others that we're dealing with today. Issues of family and preservation, of the family and biblical morality. And it's our responsibility to see that our civil government reflects biblical truth because to the degree that our society and institutions embrace biblical truth is the degree to which there will be flourishing and freedom, prosperity and blessing, to come. So this is a good example for us of the church needing to continue to disciple the nation. Well, God bless you. Hope you'll join us, next week on the Next America's Providential History Podcast.