> Jeff Chamblee: it's fireaway Friday on Exploring the Word. This is your chance to ask us your Bible question at 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. You can also email your [email protected] or visit facebook.com exploringtheword. Exploring the word. It's Fire Away Friday on American Family Radio.

 

Dillon Well, welcome to Dillon Burroughs. Along with Alex McFarland. And as you heard, this is Fire Away Friday. We are excited to take your calls, answer Bible questions you may have, whether it's something that just came up today or whether it's something you've been thinking about for years. But that number, if you need it again, 888-589-8840. I want to start off with a quick quote for you. Jon Stott, the famous British pastor, said the chief reason people do not know God is not because he hides from them, but because they hide from him. I thought that was intriguing because so many times people blame God for not revealing himself more easily to us, and many times it's because we are the ones who are hiding ourselves. But nevertheless, we're here to take your calls, and we have, many people probably already calling in. We've been going through the Gospel of Matthew today and have had some great discussion about things like the Shroud of Turin, the resurrection accounts, the women at the tomb, the Great Commission, and much more. So looking forward to building on that today. Alex, tell us a little bit about what you've been up to. I know you've been traveling, have a lot of ministry activity going on across the country. Catch us up with what's going on in your life.

 

Alex McFarland Well, Dillon, it's great to be with you. Great to be with everybody on Exploring the Word. And, wow, those calls are coming in. We'll get to the phones just in a second. And again, that number, if you've got a Bible question, is 888-589-8840. Well, I just landed, a little while ago in Greensboro, North Carolina. I'm back. And, I'll be at Mount Pleasant Church, in Greensboro this Sunday. I'm going to start a study of the Book of Colossians. Dillon, a couple of summers ago, Will Graham had asked me to teach the Book of Colossians. And that's just one of my favorite books. It's one of those NewSong Testament books. It's not all that long, just four chapters, but my goodness, Colossians is packed. Well, one of the technical words Great Christology. A lot of information about Jesus the Savior. And you know, Dillon, we, we, we just finished Matthew and, you know, I'm kind of old school. I love a lot of the old hymns, like Fanny Crosby leaning on the Everlasting Arms. But I was thinking about as we wrapped up Matthew 28, the great lyric. And I love poetry and some of those, those hymns have incredible poetry. Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain.

 

Caroline He.

 

Alex McFarland He washed it white as snow. And Dillon, don't you rejoice that no matter who the person is, and I want to say to everybody listening right now, it doesn't matter who you are, where, where you've been, what, what, you know, you think you've done so much sin and we are sinners, but if you put your faith in Jesus, he will wash you white as snow. Your sins will be washed away. Like Isaiah 1:18, though your sins be as crimson, you can be as white as wool. And, you know, as you and I wrapped up Matthew 28 yesterday, I was just kind of ruminating on that. Christ died, he rose, and he says close by as a prayer. it's no wonder we call it good news.

 

Dillon Well said. And I love your mention of Colossians as well. It always reminds me of the years when I did trail life USA with my son Ben. Their theme verse is Colossians 1:10, that you may walk worthy of the Lord. Maybe we have some Trail Life, trail members out there that want to call in and give us a shout out with their motto walkworthy. That's grown quite a bit in recent years and a great program if you're looking for a scouting alternative that's Christian based. But, yeah, I'd love to go to the callers right away and hear what people have for us in terms of questions and, and give some biblical responses here today. So let's dive in if you're ready.

 

Alex McFarland yes, we're going to go to Missouri in a second. I've got to say, the, the week Trail Life USA began, we had the founder on this program. That's been quite a few years ago, but, yeah, we're going to go to Missouri. Our first caller on today's edition of Exploring the Word. James in Missouri, are you there?

 

Caroline Yeah, hi, Alex.

 

Alex McFarland Yeah, welcome. Good to have you.

 

Caroline Yeah, yeah. Hey, I got a friendly debate going on with a good Christian friend at church, and I teach a mixed adult class. And, my friend was gonna also teach an adult mixed class because we got A pretty good sized church here near Farmington, Missouri. And he, he refused to teach the class that the church was wanting him to help lead because he was going to alternate every Sunday morning with a, with a lady who is biblically sound, in my opinion, because he said it's not biblical for men to teach women. And, are women to teach men. And he was pulling up from the apostle Paul. And I can't remember if it was in. I, don't remember which, which letter. It was a Paul's. But he was pulling up a scripture where the rows of people in the church and women to remain silent and this type of stuff, stuff. And he said, Bo. My nickname's Bo. He said, bo, it's not biblical for women to teach men. And I don't have a good argument with them. I personally don't have a problem with that if they're biblically sound and they're coming from the word of God. So I'm like, I need a little help on that.

 

Alex McFarland God bless you. God bless you. Let me speak to this a bit and because this is really important, and then I'm going to throw it to Dillon Burroughs and a little bit of context here. for about 50 to 60 years in the Western world, there's been a real arm wrestling match going on, if you will, of what we might call complementarianism versus feminism or egalitarianism. Now the feminist worldview, which really has become wokeness, which is a hyper feminization of the whole wide world, but it basically says there's nothing, no difference between a man and a woman. And we, know there are differences. Now, men and women are equal in value and worth before God, but we're unique in function. Now 1st Timothy 2:12, Paul says, and the way it's translated in English, he says, I would not have a woman to teach or have authority over a man. Now let me quote this. And Dillon and I have not, you know, rehearsed this ahead of time. So he can agree or disagree. Let me just say this. I was in graduate school and worked alongside one of the most conservative, conservative people you'd ever meet, the late Dr. Norman Geisler. He was a great scholar. And one time geisler and Jon MacArthur were together speaking about this. I mentioned these two names because if ever there were arch conservatives, it was Geisler and MacArthur. Good people. They're both in heaven. But here's the thing. Both MacArthur and Geisler said it could be okay for a woman to teach an adult Sunday school class of men. As long as she was biblically sound, you know, true to the Bible, and it was under the pastor's authority and what both of those, very good scholars said. And I agree, if the woman is doing it, you know, she's not setting herself up as the pastor of the church, but she's got teaching gifts and, the pastor and the leadership have, you know, with the oversight of the pastor, she's ministering. she has not usurped authority over the male leadership, but she's doing it under the accountability of the men. And I'm really big on accountability. I mean, like, I, as an evangelist traveling, even when I go to the hundreds of local churches I've been to throughout the Western world, I'm always under the authority of the pastor that invited me. I'm under the authority of the leadership of AFR right now.

 

Caroline So.

 

Alex McFarland So, as long, and I think different churches, you know, if they've got it this way, it doesn't violate the NewSong Testament necessarily. Now, there have been examples where, you know, women would kind of, go rogue and want to, elevate their authority. Like, I don't answer to anybody, but the first Timothy 2:12 does not necessarily mean a woman couldn't teach an adult mixed Sunday school, as long as it was under the authority and the accountability of the pastoral leadership. and again, one of the books I like to recommend is by Andreas and Margaret Costenberger, God's Role for Men and Women. But Dillon, do you have any, thoughts on this, how you read the Scriptures in regard to something like this?

 

Dillon Well, you've covered this very well, so I won't add much to it. But yes, we do have a couple of passages that talk about women not having authority over men in the church. One is A in First Timothy 2, another is in First Corinthians 14. The, question is, how do you interpret this? How do you apply this? Now, I would see that as you clearly don't want to have a woman as the senior pastor of your church. That is a true application for my understanding of it. But how far do you take it beyond that? Some churches, I've been in, churches where they literally say, if you're in a middle school class, a woman cannot teach the middle school class because those young guys could be considered men. Now, for me, that's a bit much. others will take a different approach somewhere in between where you can, teach in a class as a female but not be a, pastor of the church. So you have to figure out as a local church, how do you want to take that in terms of your interpretation? I would say if you're teaching a class as a woman with men, or the authority of a male pastoral leadership in your church, like Alex has shared, that would not be a concern to me. But your, local church has to be the want to make an agreed decision on that with their leaders, and those who are in the church need to work with them to abide by that. So that would be a good summary for my perspective on that. In addition to what Alex shared.

 

Alex McFarland God bless you. God bless you. And one last thing I would add, like, in Titus 2, 3 and 5, it talks about the older women teaching the younger women. And, you know, I've got to say this, in the early church, and really up until the early to mid 20th century, this never would have been a problem. I mean, it's really only been in the. In the era since the rise of the feminist movement and egalitarianism, really kind of wanting to tear down the boundaries between male and female. That, you know, this has even really been something that has been needed to be talked about. But thank you, James. Let's go to Texas. Walter in Texas. Walter, welcome to Exploring the Word.

 

Mona Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

Alex McFarland Yeah.

 

Caroline What?

 

Mona Well, yesterday we had a lady on, and she had a question, and I didn't, hear the answer to it. And then I was reading last night and I came up with another question. So the question that she had was about the Old Testament saints being raised. And we had just covered something about that in Matthew 27, 51, 52, and 53, about when Christ died, at the time he died, that the rocks were broken, the tombs were opened in the old. Some of the Old Testament saints. It doesn't say all, but it says some, were raised at that time, and then they walked around with Christ

 

Alex McFarland on the earth and appeared to many. Yeah.

 

Mona Was, like, well, I don't understand. So I hope you could, clear that up a little bit. And then in First Corinthians 6, 2 and 3, they're talking about, settling disputes between the saints. But then it goes to and two and three about how we. How the saints will judge the world and angels.

 

Alex McFarland Yeah.

 

Mona Can you clear it. Clear that up for me also.

 

Alex McFarland God bless you. Let's talk about this. Dillon. This is rich with content. And first of all, the Matthew 27. I love Matthew 27, 50, 54. And sometimes in commentaries, you'll see they call the phenomena of Matthew 27. now. Oh, I hear the music. Okay, this is really rich. So please stay tuned. We've got a brief break and Walter, we're going to go over everything you've asked. I see we have Dennis and Judy and Karen and others. We're going to get to you. Stay tuned. This is Exploring the word with Alex McFarland, Dr. Dillon Burroughs, the American Family Radio Network. A brief break and we'll continue on. What about all these resurrections? We'll get to it.

 

Bert Harper Hello, I'm Bert Harper. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. That's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net or that's afr.net

 

Jeff Chamblee give do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12. American Family Radio.

 

Alex McFarland Welcome back to Exploring the Word. This is Fire Away Friday. All questions all the hour. Dillon Burroughs, Alex McFarland. So glad that you're listening. Hey, before the break we had Walter in Texas. Ask early. Kind of a two fold question. And Walter, you still there? I want to. Dillon and I are going to really do our best on this. Are, you still there, Walter?

 

Mona Yes, sir.

 

Alex McFarland Okay, great. All right, in Matthew 27, 50, 54, you've got, Jesus is on the cross. the veil in the temple tears from top to bottom, there's an earthquake. But Then before verse 54 where the Centurion says, truly this was the son of God, there are, 52 and 53 are kind of out of sequence. so you think all this is at once? I really believe 52, 53 of Matthew 27 where it says the graves were open, many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised and coming out of the graves after his resurrection, they went into the holy city. That's Jerusalem. Appeared to many. Dillon, before we say much more. First of all, I think 52 and 53 refer to after the resurrection morning, not on Calvary's mountain on Friday. Agreed. 50, 51, 54 are on Calvary's Mountain. 52, 53 that are parenthetically kind of in there are really about Easter morning. And what I would say about it is this. And we talked about it, yesterday, you know, where it talks about the countenance. Okay. Matthew 28:3 like lightning apparently, as kind of a sign when Jesus was raised. The power of God in that tomb. It was almost like a nuclear blast. Christ was raised and several of the nearby graves of believing saints of old. And we'll know who they were when we get to heaven. But Christ was resurrected and several of the other graves nearby were touched. And while Jesus was alive pre ascension, but post resurrection, there were some of the resurrected saints and it says they appeared to many. And that's just a miracle, but it's a little proto resurrection. The bi. There's going to be a day when the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds. Then I believe at the, very likely at the end of the tribulation, all of the Old Testament saints will get their glorified body. So all of the believers of all the ages will be resurrected in glory. But here at Christ's resurrection 2000 Sunday mornings ago, 2000 years ago, a few saints were resurrected as well as kind of a sign. Death has been beaten, the Lord of life is risen, the resurrection is achieved. But, also Dillon, he had a question about, conflict, resolution among, believers. what, what does the Bible have to say about that? Dillon, if you would.

 

Dillon Yeah, well, and there are a couple of things he mentioned. There was that part then also about this idea of judging angels, which I think that may have been what he was referring to. What does the Bible mean when it says that we will judge angels as believers? That's an interesting one. It's found in First Corinthians 6, verses 2 and 3. the main thing we can take away from there, even though we don't completely understand it, is that as God's children created in his image, we are going to have a higher than the angels in heaven. It talks about us judging in the future kingdom to come. So instead of angels, who are these ministering spirits who are sent out now to do the Lord's work? We're going to be judging even above the angels when it comes to the future. So it's kind of a great concept to think about that at some point we're going to be in a situation where there's the Lord, there's us who are all the believers from all time, and then the angels and in some ways that we are actually in a higher position of authority than the angels are now, where right now it's kind of flip the other way, where the angels are the, the ones who are operating and serving Christ in the spiritual realm while we are here. On earth. But it's a fascinating passage. First to some of what we see in the Old Testament prophecies like Isaiah. but, we won't fully know how this all unfolds until the end times. But great question.

 

Alex McFarland Appreciate you calling Dennis in Missouri. Dennis, welcome to Exploring the Word. Thank you for holding.

 

Caroline Hello.

 

Alex McFarland Yes, you're on, Dennis.

 

Caroline Okay. Well, I didn't hear you. Well, thank you very much for your show and for all that you all do. My question was kind of answered with that other gentleman's first part about the resurrected saints. My question, it was asked of me and I couldn't really give any faith answer was when Christ descended, did he descend into Hades or wherever these Old Testament saints were at and bring them out of Hades to heaven? Or what happened? And the second part of my question is of a different question is how do we deal with the Muslims as to what they're trying to do to our country? We need to win them for Christ. But for those who don't want to know Christ, who want to destroy our country, or do we have to fall on that? And I say that because I'm being a veteran in that kind of concerns me.

 

Alex McFarland Ah, wonderful, wonderful question. I want to cue this up and I'm going to throw it to Dillon Dennis next fall, a year from now, 10-15-16. In fact, I've been working on it all this week. I'm going to lead a national symposium on the evangelization of Muslims. you know, I too am gravely concerned about the rise of Islam in this country and the possibility of Sharia law. That's why, folks, I beg of you to please pray and please vote. And like El Sayed, Abdul Rahman El Sayed in Michigan, I pray he doesn't win. But really the ultimate answer is that these, these Muslims find Jesus because they're lost. Islam is not the true way of salvation. It's a false religion. And so 10-15-16, next year I'm, I've taken it upon myself to organize a national conference on the evangelization of Muslims. And there'll be many former Muslims now born again Christians teaching and believe me, we'll be promoting it heavily. But, Dillon, about when Christ died on the cross. It was after 3pm on Friday, but before that, resurrection morning. Could you help us out, Dillon? What was going on? Where was Jesus in the spirit realm that weekend? just prior to the resurrection?

 

Dillon Yes, I'm so glad this caller mentioned it because it's one of the biggest controversies we see about the End of the life of Jesus. There's, the Apostles Creed, which talks about Jesus descending into hell. That's not in the Bible, but it is in the Apostles Creed that many of our churches use every Sunday. And that comes from Ephesians 4. 9. They interpret that verse as Jesus somehow going into hell, defeating death in the grave and then coming back. But what the Bible actually says is found in Luke 23:43, where Jesus tells the thief on the cross, today, you will be with me in paradise. He didn't say he was going to hell or to Hades. He said he was going to paradise. So Jesus explicitly, said he would be going to heaven with the Father after his crucifixion. And then we see that again just a couple verses later. Right before he died, he said, father, into your hands I commit my spirit. Verse 46 says, so it's very clear where Jesus went. The, question is, how do you deal with these other passages that seem to indicate that maybe Jesus went to hell or somewhere and the grave or something like that, during this time period? But there are better ways to deal with that. I mean, this phrase, in Ephesians 4, about descending to the lower parts of the earth, that seems to refer to Jesus going from heaven to earth when he came for his earthly ministry, not about him going from death into hell and then back out again. So that's more of a later development theologically and historically, that doesn't seem to reflect what the NewSong Testament text says. That's my interpretation of it, by the way.

 

Alex McFarland And I want to be clear that, Jesus didn't pay for our sins by, quote, burning in hell. I know, Dillon. I grew up reciting the Apostles Creed, and I like the Apostles Creed, I really do. It's an ancient statement of belief, but it was on the cross where our sin was paid for and atoned for. And, yes, he appeared before the Father in heaven. The atonement is done, you know, paid in full. But, you know, I've often thought about that in English, the Apostles Creed. He descended into hell, the realm of the dead, but not the fires of hell. I believe the fires of hell are literal. But Jesus didn't have to go there to pay for our sin. It was on the cross. Thank you, Dennis. Judy in NewSong Mexico. Judy, are you there?

 

Caroline Yes, sir, I'm here.

 

Alex McFarland Thanks for holding. Welcome.

 

Caroline You bet. I'm so. I enjoy your program so much. I was reading in Matthew today, Matthew 22. I don't remember the verse. And then it referred Me to Daniel, which I read in there about the abomination of desolation. What is the abomination of desolation?

 

Caroline Wow.

 

Alex McFarland Well, there's a lot about this. And by the way, in, in the book that we all did, 100 Bible questions on prophecy and the end, we talk about this. this is mentioned in a few passages like Daniel 9, 11 and 12, Matthew, 24, Mark 13, 14, Jesus talks about a time regarding, the abomination. Dillon, you want to touch on this a bit?

 

Dillon Oh, this is a good one. Because it starts in Daniel 9 as she mentioned, and then you see Jesus bring it up again. And Matthew 24, talking about when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel standing in the holy place. And it mentions those in Judea fleeing to the mountains. Now that's where it gets tricky because there are a couple different interpretations of this. There are some who believe he's referring to a time close to when he lived, when Jerusalem was defeated and the Jews fled to the mountains during that time. Well, possibly. But it seems from the context of Matthew 24 that he's talking about something that says still hasn't happened yet. And so when we look at it from that perspective, we're talking about something that happens during the seven year tribulation period. This abomination that causes desolation seems to refer to the Antichrist, when he will go into the attempt, into the temple and desecrate it in a way that's very clear and that the Jewish people will see that, oh, he's not this world leader who's going to unite everyone. He's here to do us harm. And so that's the way that I understand it and the way that most people who consider the rapture followed by the tribulation taking place would understand it as well. So great question. I really appreciate it.

 

Alex McFarland Yeah. And you know the word abomination, it means like a sickening sight. I mean something that is just so vile it's sickening. Dillon, I believe that another temple is going to be rebuilt. You know, it may be that, one of the ways that the Jews rebuild their temple on the Temple Mount, immediately after the rapture of the church, the catching away, there's this kind of momentary world chaos. And this political leader will broker a deal whereby the third temple gets rebuilt. And for a little bit, I really think the first half of the seven year tribulation there might be a little bit of relative peace but midway through the tribulation, and this world leader, who is actually the Antichrist, is going to go in the temple and declare himself to be God. You know, worship me or die. And really, one last verse, Second Thessalonians, chapter two, Second Thessalonians two, three, and following this quote, man of lawlessness sits in God's temple claiming to be God. And that is abominable, isn't it there, Dillon?

 

Dillon Yeah, it's a good way to put it. But, yes, there's so much still to come. And what's fascinating to me is how much preparation is being done in Israel even now, for a future temple to be built. If you look into it, it's quite fascinating. So something to look into, if you're interested in that.

 

Alex McFarland Karen in Texas. Karen, thank you for holding. Welcome.

 

Caroline Thank you, Alex. And, thank you, Dillon. I appreciate you helping. And, Alex, I. I know time is short, but, I met you in Abilene, and you. I listen to y' all every day. But you're the one that signed my

 

Caroline Bible for me, so God bless you.

 

Caroline I just appreciate you so much.

 

Alex McFarland So do you know, I gotta say forgive me. Forgive me. Yeah. I was in Abilene in July. There's a Creation Museum there. And we have listeners in Abilene right now. And it was my great joy to speak at that Creation Museum, and I met a lot of great folks like yourself, Karen, and, folks in Abilene and the Creation Museum. We really appreciate the work you all do over there, but forgive me. Go on, Karen.

 

Caroline No, no, no. Thank you so much. my question was kind of answered, because I called in about. I've always wondered about the tribulation. I mean, out the tribulation, the, resurrection saints. And you pretty. And I appreciate you answering that. Like, it wasn't really chronological. and I. I just. Well, I told you screen color. I have, like, four questions. I'll just stick to. I'll stick to one, but now add another one. You pretty much asked. You answered the, first one. But what do you think happened to those bodies? I mean, I don't think they were returned to the grave. Do you think they. I mean, the spirits are there. Do you think. Where did the bodies go?

 

Alex McFarland Dillon, you can, chime in if you want to. You know, the Bible's not completely clear, but I think about, like, in the Book of Acts, chapter 1:9, 11. well, really, Acts, chapter 1:4, 11. Jesus has been with them. He's resurrected. And it Seems like there's a real group of some of the disciples, some of the apostles, and Jesus, ascends to heaven. And it says as he went up, two angels stood with the disciples, left behind and said, you men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into the heavens? This same Jesus who is taken up will return in like manner the Bible doesn't explicitly say. But Dillon, I've always wondered if some of those saints that were resurrected at that resurrection moment, if they were around because it says they were in the holy city and appeared to many. And I wonder if they ascended up to heaven with Jesus there at that moment, just like kind of a proto rapture almost. What do you think, Dillon?

 

Dillon Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. It's interesting how in Matthew 24, the Mount of Olives is the emphasis of where Jesus will return. And many people think that's still going to be the case when he returns for his second coming. So we'll talk more about that when we come back.

 

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Caroline Raise my voice.

 

Alex McFarland Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Hey, I just want to say a big thank you to all the listeners out there for the entirety of this show. We've kept a full board. I've got this computer and, and there are, these windows and when people call and I say all the names, we're gonna get to as many as we can. We call this the call board. And, you know, sometimes you have one or two or three calls. Well, we have had a full list of names and states all show long. So yalls enthusiasm for this show. It really means the world to us and I want to say a sincere thank you. Also, I want to thank Dillon Burroughs. Dillon and I will be at the COVID next summer, the Billy Graham Conference center in Asheville, North Carolina, along with Lauren Greene of Fox News. And so if you like this kind of content, biblical worldview, check out thecove.org t h e c o v e thecove.org next July. we'll be there and we'd, love for you to join us. It would be really great to meet, many of you out there. Dillon, our summer visits to the Cove which is like 22 years now, it's kind of become like an Exploring the Word homecoming. the auditorium only seats, like, 320 people. It always fills up.

 

Mona Always.

 

Alex McFarland And I was there this past summer with Gary Habermas and last year with, J. Warner Wallace, and we've been there with folks like James Dobson and Frank Turek over the years, and it's kind of like a big Exploring the Word summer party. But you might want to join us next year. But anyway, right now we're going to go to Texas. Kristie Anyabwile in Texas. Kristie Anyabwile, are you there?

 

Caroline Yes, I'm here.

 

Alex McFarland Hey, thank you for holding. Thank you.

 

Caroline Yes.

 

Alex McFarland What you got?

 

Caroline Well, I thank you guys for all that you do, and I just recently found you on the radio, and I'm thrilled to death. just. I cut that empty hole in my heart, and I. I need to get back into the Word, and I need some help on where I should get started. That's probably about it.

 

Alex McFarland Wow. Well, Dillon, why don't you talk to Kristie Anyabwile about that? What advice would you have for her?

 

Dillon Well, her question cut out a little bit on me. What was the question? Can you reword it for me?

 

Alex McFarland Kristie Anyabwile, you want to repeat that?

 

Caroline that. I just. I feel an emptiness, and. And I. I need to get back into the Word, and I. I just. I don't know where to get started. I need to find a church. I haven't been since Cove and I need. That way I can have community. And, I think that then things I'll feel better, and I just. I need to know where to get started.

 

Dillon Yes, well, that. That's a good request to have. And I know many people are in the same situation, and I think we're very familiar and many with Hebrews 10, 24 and 25 that talk about us, consider how to stir one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another and all the more, as you see the day drawing near. Church is supposed to encourage us when we get together with other believers. And so we do encourage you to try to find a church in your local area where you can find that as well. even Romans talks about being mutually encouraged by one another's faith. that is the goal of a good Christian community. I think that will help you in a lot of the other areas as well, in terms of discouragement, or wanting to pray more or be in God's Word more. And of course, resources like our program and. And others here on American Family Radio can help as well. but one thing I would say is in addition to going to a local church, being personally responsible for your spiritual growth is a key aspect. You know, whether it's a set time each day to pray, a set time each day to go through a portion of scripture. I do the Read through the Bible and a year plan, which is about three or four chapters per day. that might be a bit much for some, but even five minutes per day you can read through the NewSong Testament in a year. And it's such a blessing to have that habit built in because so much of our life is built around habits, right? So if you get that habit developed over about a 30 day period, you'll start to see change in other areas of life too. So I hope those are a couple of things that can help you along the way.

 

Alex McFarland God bless you, Kristie Anyabwile. God bless you. And you stay with it and you pursue Jesus and seek the Lord and he will be found, as the Bible says. Marty in Iowa. Marty, welcome to Exploring the world.

 

Caroline Alex and Dillon, thank, thank you guys very much. yesterday you were talking about a baptism and I have a grandchild who has, 8 years old who has found contrition in her heart that she recognizes she's a sinner and she needs a savior. And she asked, Jesus into her life. And then the baptism thing came up and we, her parents do a wonderful job with their kids and the questions we were. We've been looking through scripture about baptism and everything and I found something amazing, and I don't know the answer to it, but In Luke chapter three, when Jesus was 12 years old and he went to Jerusalem to the temple, and then we remember the story that his, parents, I guess you could say, and they came back and found him. And that I think would be considered the bar mitzvah, I think, I don't know that they called it that in that time. And then the second thing, you go to Matthew chapter three and we do read the story of, Jon meeting Jesus and see it's saying, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the

 

Caroline sin of the world.

 

Caroline And then Jesus instructs him to baptize him. And it's so cute, Jon saying, I need to be baptized by you. And we all recognize that Christ never needed a baptism of repentance. He's God M. He's perfect, he's wonderful. But yet, back to my 8 year old granddaughter, there's a shyness and a concern about baptism. And as I say, my, her parents are doing a fabulous job of Just allowing the spirit to lead. And we're just kind of. We know that it says to be born again and then to be baptized. And I am confident that she have been born again. so we were just wondering if there was any kind of. Why didn't Jesus become baptized at the age of 12 when he became an adult?

 

Caroline Great.

 

Alex McFarland Hey, let me jump in here and talk about this. And, Dillon, you feel free to chime in if you want to. You know, in the NewSong Testament, you see what we call believers baptism. That the baptism by immersion, the baptizo, it symbolizes the death, burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And of course, like in Matthew 13, Jesus was baptized by Jon the baptizer. and it wasn't that Christ had become saved because he is God incarnate, He is the Savior, but another. And let's remember, we're under what's called the new covenant. in Jeremiah, it talks about a new covenant, a living heart that we get. We're made alive in Christ. Jesus came and Jesus ministered. You've got Jon the Baptist, and you've got, of course, the son of God, Jesus, who died and rose again. Dillon, as I understand it, we're leaving behind the old covenant, and Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant or NewSong Testament. All right? One of the ways that water had been used ceremonially in the, lives of Old Testament Jews was what's called a mikvah bath. And there were ceremonial cleansing. there were a number of things. And it's very likely that at age 12, when Jesus was, made, in the eyes of the community, a young Jewish male, he might have undergone a mikvah, the ritualistic bath. But, you know, it's so wild. Listen to this. And the word mikvah means a gathering of waters. Okay? But the mikvah, bath, that was a ceremonial part of the old temple ritual, that wasn't NewSong Testament believers baptism. But it says in Jeremiah 17:13, Israel has forsaken me, the living water, the mikvah. Isn't that something? Now, in a way, first of all, Jesus wasn't water baptized. Believer's baptism at age 12, because it didn't really exist yet. and when Jon the Baptist did baptize Jesus, Jesus said, it's becoming. In other words, it's appropriate to fulfill all righteousness. Christ is our example. That's why I, believe when you accept Christ and you're saved, then as soon as you can in identifying with the local church and identifying with Jesus, I think it's very appropriate. It's a step of obedience to undergo public believers. Baptism doesn't make you more saved, but it is a step of obedience. But, Dillon, do you have anything or, do you want to move on? but immersion baptism, when Christ was 12, it didn't exist yet, although the mikvah bath did. But that was old covenant, and believer's baptism is part of the new covenant. Any further word on that, Dillon?

 

Dillon Well, you covered that. Well, Matthew 3:15, I think is key that Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He was not in need of repentance or confession of sin. But in the case of this girl, I mean, she's 8 years old. I understand she may be nervous to be baptized in front of other people or to do anything in front of a crowd of other people. So we want to be sensitive to that. But baptism is a celebration. It's a party. So make it that way and try to make it an encouraging thing that she would be excited about, just like going to somebody's birthday party. But it's a. A birthday party for her spiritual rebirth that she can celebrate and newness of life as she celebrates going into the waters of baptism. So I think that would be a good way to present that to her. But thanks so much for your call.

 

Alex McFarland Wayne in Mississippi. Wayne, welcome to Exploring the Word.

 

Caroline Yes, sir.

 

Alex McFarland Amen, brother.

 

Caroline a little study, but listening to y', all, too. Yes, sir. In Revelation, chapter one, Lord Jon forgive, you know, by the Holy Spirit, to write about the seven spirits which are before God's throne. And then also In Revelation, chapter 5, it speaks again about it's the eyes of the Lord. Okay, and then revelation, chapter five again, verse 12. I've, stood this long, long time, and when I see this, when I first seen, I thought, well, you answered it, saying with a loud voice, worthy is a lamb that was slain to receive power. That's one, verses two, three, wisdom and strength, four, and then honor, and then glory and blessing. Six and seven. Do you look at that to be the seven spirits that God will use upon the earth when the church is taken out?

 

Dillon Great.

 

Alex McFarland M. Question, Dillon. I'm going to let you jump in on this. The seven spirits of God that we read about in Revelation. Dillon, how do we understand this?

 

Caroline Sure.

 

Dillon Well, there certainly aren't seven gods, because that would not make sense at all with one God and three persons. That's already difficult enough understanding the triune God. but the sevenfold Spirit of God is somehow sometimes how it's translated. And that partly may refer to Isaiah 11, where there's a sevenfold description of the Spirit of the Lord, where it says, the spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge, and fear of the Lord. So I, I take it as an unfolding of Isaiah's, prophecies about God and the Holy Spirit. And it's the sevenfold nature of God. And of course, 7 is a very prominent number throughout Revelation as well. So it has that symbolism that goes along with many other areas of the book. I think that's the best way to understand it.

 

Alex McFarland Yes, One God, one holy Spirit, but, like you say, a sevenfold the many myriad aspects of God, his power, and his work in this world. Wayne, God bless you. Let's go to Mona in Kentucky. Mona, thank you for holding. Welcome to the program.

 

Caroline Hi.

 

Caroline Thank you, gentlemen, for taking my call. I was going with my grandson to D.C. a couple weeks ago on his fall break, and we were listening to Exploring the Word while we were driving to and fro from Kentucky. And, he asked me while we were on our trip, you know, Adam and Eve walked with God in the cool of the garden, so they must have seen his face. And then we talked about how you can't see his face, lest you should, you would die. And so how he put Moses in the cleft of the rock, and Moses can only see the backside of God as he passed by. My grandson asked me, will we see God's face when we're in heaven? And I said, I don't know.

 

Caroline And he said, grandma, why don't you ask Alice?

 

Caroline Alex and Bert

 

Mona love it.

 

Caroline He's nine years old. And I called last week, and y' all didn't have enough time to take my call. So I'm calling again and asking for, asking for a friend, asking for my grandson, will we see God's face in heaven?

 

Alex McFarland Well, first of all, let me say I'm humbled and honored that, that he would say, ask Alex and Bert, and please tell him how much we appreciate it. And in fact, if we could get your address from Brent Austin, we'll get your address. I'm going to put a book in the mail. I'm staring at my bookcase right now, and I've written, seven different books for teenagers. And I'm going to send your grandson one of my teen biblical, devotional books. So this is, you know, we, we got our Hundred Questions books. Bert and I have written things for grownups and Dillon as well, but I've got some books for Middle school and high schoolers that God led me to write. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna pop a book in the mail. but, you know, in. In Jon 14. 9, Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. when I was working for Focus on the Family and I was writing for Dr. Dobson's magazine, we got this question. And, you know, Dillon, you chime in if you want to here, it's debatable. I mean, the pure, eternal fire of God's essence and nature. I don't know that even in heaven we can look on that completely. But so that we can not only see God, know God, interact with God, and eternally enjoy the presence of God. God sent his son Jesus so that we could know God. Dillon, is it fair to say this? If you want to know what God is like, look at Jesus. but what do you think, Dillon? In heaven will we see the face of God?

 

Dillon Well, let's talk about us being in his. His presence forever. But the details are often lacking that we would like to have. But, short Response is Genesis 3.

 

Caroline 8.

 

Dillon Ah. Talks about them hearing the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden and hiding from the presence of the Lord. It doesn't specifically say they saw him in a physical form, although that's possible because there are places like Genesis 18, where God seems to be, you know, revealing himself in physical form, but we're not completely certain. So it may have just been a, you know, an invisible form. It may be an angelic form that they can understand. But clearly God is spirit. And, we know that God is spirit and truth. So thanks so much for being with us.

 

Alex McFarland Hebrews 2. 9 says, but we see Jesus. We see Jesus, folks. Thanks for listening. God bless you. Be in church on Sunday. Be in the house of God on Sunday. And thank you for listening. Blessings. M The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.