>> Jeff Chamblee: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions. Welcome to Exploring the Word.
>> Alex McFarland: You know, in recent weeks, Bert Harper and I have been in the book of Exodus and I want to share a verse from Exodus. And if you've ever felt, you know, a little uneasy about witnessing or talking to people about the gospel, here's a verse, Exodus 4:12. And I know Bert is going to agree with me that here, at exploring the Word, answering people's questions, we kind of live on a verse like this. Exodus 4:12 says, now go, I will help you speak and will teach you what to say. Well, with that, we welcome you to this edition of Exploring the word. Alex McFarland, Burt Harper and the American Family Radio Network. And Bert, don't you feel like you and I, we, we really do lean on the Holy Spirit to be the, guide and the teacher, don't we?
>> Bert Harper: We really do. And I'll just say this with Alex's recall, which is amazing. God, uses that and God has to help me because I don't have quite the recall that Alex does. But, between us both, God is able to do great and mighty things. And we've heard of reports of people's lives being blessed and helped and strengthened and challenged. And listen, that's the power of the Word of God through the power of the Holy Spirit. So today we're going to do a little bit different. I know Fridays is Fry Away Friday, but every so often we'll have what we call Thunder Thursday. Now Alex, I just, you know, since we had Fire Away Friday ff, I thought we need to have a tea and you know, we could do terrific, but thunder and fire, I thought those. Yeah. So that means you can call 888 58-98840 and ask your questions the whole hour, not just the last segment. But right now, if you got that Bible question and you wanted to ask it later on, don't wait, do it now. It's 888-58-98840. Will, will take that call and we'll be ready to do our best to give a godly biblical answer. That's our desire, isn't it, Alex?
>> Alex McFarland: Well, it really is. And, and I'm glad that we can do this. And what a blessing that, you know, we have the Latitude, to do this, because, you know, a lot of times we do questions in, and we. We run out of time. And I'll. I'll see callers in the queue, and I want to get to everybody. So we're going to devote the whole hour. And again, that number is 888-589-8840. And if you have a Bible question of any sort, we'll do our best to give you an answer. We would love to hear from you. And, Bert, you and I have got a third book coming out this fall, folks. It's in. The editing is done, the typesetting. As far as I know, it's on its way to press. And so please pray that God would use that. And, we just appreciate all the listeners and all the questions. But most of all, we give God the glory that we have his word, from which to get the answer.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. He is the answer. And, we do our best to make a beeline to the word of God. Make much of Jesus. And there are some difficult situations. Let me give you this. And we got people that are calling in, but sometimes people find themselves in situations where it's going to be pain no matter what. Do you remember? Matter of fact, I'm preaching this Sunday up at Ozark Baptist Church here in Northeast Mississippi about when they were bringing the ark up from Abinadab, and they put it on an ox cart, and the ox cart doc stumbled, and, the guy put his hand up to stop it from, from falling, and he died. Well, he was in an impossible situation, let it fall or touch it. And sometimes, if we're not careful, we'll put ourselves in those situations where there's going to be pain no matter what. So what you want to do is, in those situations, do your best to do what God tells you to do. And let me just tell you this. Obey God now. Don't wait to obey God when you have the hard decisions. Either way, make that decision now where you can see clearly. That's. That's my sermon for the day. So you ready to take phone calls, Alex? I've got the first one online if you're ready.
>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Let's hear it.
>> Bert Harper: Okay. Carrie from Mississippi. Kerry, thank you for calling.
>> Speaker D: Hey, how's it going?
>> Bert Harper: Doing well. Good to hear from you. Glad you could call.
>> Speaker D: Yes, sir. I've heard from y'all before. Y'all actually sent me a, 100 bibles. Question, answers and questions.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. Way to go, Carrie.
>> Speaker D: And, anyways, I just had a First, I just want to wish my beautiful wife, Kelsey Bickford a happy birthday. And m. Second of all, I just. I just want to ask for the nation and everybody that Christians and everybody in the world just pray for my marriage and pray, that I can be a better husband. And I was just going to ask, what are some key things I can do to be a more biblical husband?
>> Bert Harper: Amen. Carrie, let me just say this. I don't know of a man who's married that does not need that same prayer. And I'm telling you, do you know what Billy Graham's wife said? you know, said a, marriage, a good marriage is always between two good forgivers. And, find somebody that will stick with you. And, listen, pray. And the other thing, you want to treat your wife with great respect, Alex. Respect her as. And sometimes we can be hard headed, you know, you've called yourself a knucklehead. I call myself a hard head. And, so between us both, aren't you glad we have great wives?
>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Well, God bless you, sir, for calling in. And yes, happy birthday to your wife. And it blesses my heart that you would say, you know, because every Christian husband should have this mindset, how can I love my wife more? Lift her up more. be a better Christian husband. And let me just say this. Ephesians 5:28. This is a great verse. It says, in the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife, loves himself. And, you know, I gotta. I want to challenge everybody. And Lord knows, this is what Angie and I aspire for. Ourself. The second most precious gift you have got, number one, is salvation. Of course, if you've put your faith in Jesus. But the second greatest gift God ever gives a Christian is marriage and the family. And we often say, lose at anything else but win with your family. And I would say, win with your marriage. And, I certainly am not speaking presuming that I know it all or I've, you know, done everything right. But I will tell you this, Bert. With every passing day and every passing year, I thank God for a Christian spouse. And I thank God for Angie. And I look back and I realize how so very, very, very often God was speaking to me through Angie and Christian men out there. Let me say this. The wisest thing you can do is maximize on your marriage. And, you know, men and women are different. We could do a whole week of shows on this, but very often. And Bert, you feel free to agree or Disagree. God will speak to the Christian husband through the godly wife. And the greatest favor you'll ever do yourself, men, is to lay down your life for your bride like Christ laid down his life for his bride. Am I right?
>> Bert Harper: You are right on. You're right on. I am telling you, the times that I have not listened to Jan, I would say 99% of the time I regretted it later. And it could be 100%, I'm leaving out 1% just because I don't know for sure. But listen, Carrie, love your wife the way Christ loved the church. Respect her, honor her. And, treat her. When it says the weaker vessel, it means a more precious vessel. Treat her that way. She is her tender heart, her tender mind. And, I tell people, ladies, they. Their mind is all connected. Everything is connected. Carrie. I will say this to the ladies that are listening to us. Men, they'll ask us, what are we thinking? And sometimes we'll say nothing. Women just probably can't even get their mind around that. But men have a nothing box that we can go to, just driving down the road, enjoying the trip. And, so ladies, give us a little grace when we say, what are you thinking? And we say nothing. I know you don't understand it, but that is the case. But women, men, every part of a woman's thought life, they're connected every way. It's kind of. And I don't mean this as a negative way. A spider web can be beautiful. But I want to tell you, it's all connected. Everything is connected. And, so, Carrie, thank you for that. And again, happy birthday to your wife. Well, let's go to Texas and talk to Veronica. Veronica, thank you for calling. Hi.
>> Caroline: Yes, I'm.
>> Alex McFarland: I'll, be six.
>> Bert Harper: I'm six years saved by the blood of Jesus.
>> Caroline: And so I, I would.
>> Alex McFarland: I would like y'all to preach on fasting and what the Bible says and what that looks like.
>> Bert Harper: Okay? Six years saved. Amen. Veronica.
>> Alex McFarland: Praise God.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. Keep growing in the Lord. Keep listening, Alex. Fasting, it is letting God, be more in your communion with him. Be more important than something that is our, life sustaining. And that's food. Now, a lot of folks are fasting for other things because their health and they've got to stay on a certain schedule because of blood sugar, because of other things. But it is giving yourself to God in prayer for a specific set of time with priority. That's for sure. Isn't really is.
>> Alex McFarland: And God bless you and thank you for caring about this because, I have seen in my own personal life, fasting and prayer has yielded many, many a breakthrough. Mark 9:26. Jesus says, some things are only accomplished through prayer and fasting. Now, let me say this, and we would never give medical advice. Ah. And, you know, make sure that physically, you know, fasting, your doctor's okay with you doing that and all that kind of stuff. But here's the thing. when your tummy growls, that's a reminder to pray, you know. And, I'll tell this story very briefly, but Angie and I had been married three months. We were going to move to Virginia for me to go to seminary at Liberty University. And we didn't know where we were going to stay. We didn't know, how we were going to do it. And, I had a car I was trying to sell, and I'd only been a Christian about four years. This, is back 1989. Anyway, I heard a preacher say, if you need guidance, if you need a breakthrough, fast and pray. So I decided I was going to fast and pray for 24 hours and not drink anything but water. And at that time, I have to laugh. Now, a, one day fast is not a challenge. But back then that seemed like a big thing. So I promise you, listen to this. I had my car in the paper, and it was a Wednesday, and we were going to leave on Saturday, and I had to sell this car to pay for tuition. So I fasted and prayed. Well, at the end of the 24 hours, I was knelt by the couch and I was like, dear Jesus, I fasted and prayed. We got to find an apartment, we got to sell this car. The moving van leaves Saturday morning. in the name of Jesus, when I say amen, please let that phone ring. Dear Jesus, in your name, I ask it. Amen. Now I'm promising you, I'll listen. The second I said amen, the phone rang. A lady said, hey, I'm going to buy your car. I was like, oh, wow, thanks. I hung up the phone. I had not taken my hand off the receiver, and it rang a second time, and it was a man. He said, I want to buy your car. I said, well, it's already sold. He said, well, take my number if it falls through. Anyway, the apartment, the car sale, everything I learned at an early stage. You pray and you fast. God begins to do things.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. He is working in your behalf. Understand that, believe that, and he'll reveal it to us as we fast and pray. We'll be back with more of Your questions right after the break. Thank you for listening to Exploring the Word PreBorn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year, PreBorn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com afr.
>> Alex McFarland: Right now want that mountain to move right now Want the ocean apart Right now God, I'm looking for you and I'm wondering where you are.
>> Bert Harper: But why do I worry?
>> Alex McFarland: God, I know you haven't failed me yet.
>> Bert Harper: Why do I worry?
>> Alex McFarland: You prove it over and over again.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. Amen. Every time. I was waiting on that. We just got to wait for that. God is faithful and I thank God for his faithfulness. Well, we've got people calling in, so we're not going to waste any time. We're going to go straight to Joan in Illinois. Joan, thank you for calling.
>> Caroline: Thank you for your gift of wisdom to all of us. We need you lead everybody at afr, please keep going.
>> Bert Harper: Thank you.
>> Caroline: Joan, my question, well, I mean it, we couldn't do it without you. My question is what happens when your body dies? Where do your soul and spirit go? Okay, what's the difference between the two?
>> Bert Harper: Okay, great. Hey. The soul and spirit, they're close. Only the word of God that we know can divide those two and see, the difference in it. Everything else comes short of dividing that up, even explanation of what we do. But the word of God does. John, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And that presence has to do with our soul and spirit, doesn't it, Alex?
>> Alex McFarland: It really does. And by the way, one of the unique things about the Christian faith is Jesus saves the whole person and man humanity. We are a three part spirit, soul and body. And one of the verses 1st Thessalonians 5:23 and 24, the very God of peace sanctify you holy. And I pray God your whole listen to this spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord Jesus. First Thessalonians 5:23. Now here's the beautiful thing. Burden. This is one of the. One of the things that Christianity offers the world that nobody else can really promise. And that is healing and wholeness. Now, I'm going to talk about what happens after death in just a second. But Bert, let me just say this right now. The world is kind of. Many in this world are wounded and fragmented and I've had people email us because of the radio program here, we get emails every day. People talk about that, maybe abuse, and there's anger and unforgiveness and, not, not only. Not at peace with God, not at peace with others. Millions of people are not at peace with themselves. Now, when, when you come to Jesus, your spirit is regenerated, made alive. And, and that's the, the word for pneuma. The, the part of you that is everlasting, your spirit, the fallen, sinful, unredeemed spirit is made alive. And then for the rest of your life, your soul. And the Greek word is psyche. P S Y C H E Our mind, we are renewing our mind. And even right now, not only the listeners, but Bert and I both. I feel like we grow as we learn, but when we pass away, physically die, the body gets glorified and the beautiful thing. And Bert, even maybe somebody is listening now and you know, you just feel like you're coming apart at the seams. Christ Jesus will fix you. Christ, Jesus will forgive you, heal you, restore you. And there's a wholeness. Listen to this, folks. psychologists have a big fancy word called cognitive dissonance. It's just when we're in turmoil inside, if you feel like you've got turmoil, Jesus offers you peace. And Bert, one of the beautiful things, when we go to be with Jesus, instantly, we're with Christ the believer, the born again believer. When the physical body expires in this world, you are instantly with Christ in heaven forever. Jesus saves the whole person, doesn't he?
>> Bert Harper: All the way. Not partial. It is complete. And I can tell you, your soul and spirit go straight to be of the Lord. But one day, and we talk about the Rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first. It's talking, about their new body. And then those of us who are alive will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be caught up with the Lord in the air to be of the Lord forever. So it is whole, it is complete. We have been saved, we are being saved. That's called sanctification. And praise God, we will be saved. That's glorification. And God is doing that work. So this salvation that we're talking about, John, is complete. And, so he. And he will complete. He who began a good work in us will complete it in the day of Christ Jesus. Just know that. Thank you for that good call. Let's go to Missouri and talk to Dennis. Dennis, thank you for calling.
>> Caroline: Well, thank you for taking my call. Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I love The Lord. My question deals with the millennium. I was talking with another brother in the Lord about the millennium. What we will do in the millennium? Will we have to have a house to live in or will we work? Or what will we do?
>> Bert Harper: Okay, great question. We don't know everything about the millennium, Dennis. It still has some areas. We know we will be with the Lord. We know there will be finally this utopia that man has talked about and wanted. Yes, we can have it. Christ is on the throne. But it sounds like it is going to be a society that we are in, Alex. It is not just sitting about and doing nothing. Because even in paradise, Adam and Eve had tasks, didn't they?
>> Alex McFarland: exactly, exactly. You know, work is a beautiful gift. sometimes the drudgery and the hardness of work and the struggle, we think it's a burden. But in eternity we're going to work now. It'll be work set free from the fall and the curse. You remember God told Adam, you, will till the soil in sweat and pain. And, one of my favorite songs, Joy to the World by Isaac Watts, and we sing it at Christmas. But there's a verse in there really, about the millennium and eternity. No more let sin and sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground. and Christ's salvation goes, the songwriter said, far as the curse is found. So during the millennium, which is a thousand year period. And by the way, Bert, do you know the Bible references the millennium 32 times?
>> Bert Harper: Wow, that is awesome. Yes.
>> Alex McFarland: Okay, so after the battle of Armageddon, and this is in our upcoming book that'll be out in September. But there's going to be a thousand years of peace on earth. Jesus will physically be on earth, ruling and reigning from the city of God, Jerusalem. And, there will be heaven on earth. The color ask a great question. Will it rain or will there be the weather patterns? I don't know. I don't know about that, Bert, because the weather that, we have now, especially the severity of the weather, is part of the curse from Noah's flood, really, you know. So, what will the weather be? I don't know, but I just think it'll be thousand, ah, year paradise. And after the millennium eternity proper, the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, the city that lieth foursquare. But, Bert, have you ever had a spring day that it wasn't too hot, wasn't cold, just you're outside and you think, man, this is a perfect day. You ever had a day like that?
>> Bert Harper: Yes, we do. And there Are not that many here, because we. Our spring. Summer, comes mighty early for spring. But when we have those days, I want to just tell you, it's hard to stay inside. You want to be outside, don't you?
>> Alex McFarland: You do. I got to tell you this. I know we'll move on, but, it was cold on Palm Sunday. And cold. Well, Easter morning, I did a sunrise service, 7:00am just, you know, four days ago, it was perfect. And in our little part of the world, it always seems like. And people talk about it, by Easter Sunday, it is just ideal. And I think the millennium is going to be like that, just forever, every day a perfect day.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. And you don't want to miss it. How do you do that? By trusting Jesus Christ as your Savior. You don't go on your own. It's in Christ. He's the way, the truth, and the life. If any man be in Christ, he's a new creation in all things. How, the old is past, the new has come. Make sure you've trusted Christ as you've laid down your life and say, God, I don't want to do it my way. I know you died on the cross for me. I know that you rose again, overcoming sin and death. And I'm putting my trust in you as I turn away from my sin, turn away from my way. And I'm trusting you now and forever. If you've never done that, I pray you would do that right now because you don't want to miss that millennium. It's going to be finally that peace on earth that we've talked about. Thank you so much, Dennis. Let's go to Arkansas, Charlie. Thank you for calling. Hi.
>> Caroline: Thank you guys for taking my call. my m question is, where in the Bible would you send me if I'm wondering? Eternal security versus free will.
>> Bert Harper: Okay, let just say this. And Alex, this is a good question. Great question. Let me just share something with you, Charlie. There, was this illustration that Charles Haddon Spurgeon. There's a few folks that Alex and I try to quote every so often, and Charles Haddon Spurgeon is one of them. And if there's any pastors or teachers out there, any books that you can get that give you Charles, Haddon Spurgeon's sermons, buy them. I want to just tell you, you'll be blessed by it. But he said, if you stand in the Bible and look at the security of the believer and then man's free will, you look at God's, you know, sovereignty and man's free will. It's like standing, between a railroad track where you see two rails, but if you lift your head up and see far down, those two rails seem to come together. And Charles Spurgeon said that's the way it is in the scriptures. You can't completely comprehend one or the other without looking at the other. But God brings them together, doesn't he, Alex?
>> Alex McFarland: He really does. And, you know, I do believe in the eternal security of the believer. In other words, I think if you're born again, you can't lose your salvation. Now, this is not a license to sin or anything like that, but I want to give you three verses. First of all. And this, Bert, early in my Christian life, this really helped me, Philippians 1, verse 6. Being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it unto the day of Jesus Christ. And really, I know we do have free will. Humans have free will, and we have to respond to Christ and believe. But really, the good work in you, salvation, you know, being drawn toward Jesus, you're regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit. He, began it, not us, you know, so the good work of getting saved and then growing. Philippians 1:6. Another is John 10:28. Jesus. And this is powerful. Jesus said of, the believer, I give to them eternal life, and they will never perish, and nothing can pluck them out of my hand. And I'll give you one more. Ephesians 4:30 says, do not grieve the Holy Spirit who seals you unto the day of redemption.
>> Bert Harper: Amen.
>> Alex McFarland: And, so. And there are quite a number of others. now again, somebody might say, oh, I've got it. I can't lose it. I guess I can do whatever I want. Paul addresses that. Paul says, no, heaven forbid. You know, we are secure in Christ. and if you stumble. And Bert, I was saved. And I was down on the farm, and I hit my thumb with a hammer, and I rattled off some bad words, and I thought, what is wrong with me? I'm supposed to be a Christian. And I struggle, Bert. I think the first year of my salvation, I wondered if I was still lost. And finally I just had to get this settled. And I read the Bible and came on these verses. One last thing. Charles Stanley wrote, a little book, Eternal Security. Can you be sure? And he says, yes, you can. Great little book by the great late Charles Stanley. On that topic.
>> Bert Harper: Let me say this. You've heard, once saved, always saved. Let me tweak. It just a little bit. If saved, always saved. make sure, make sure, you know, Jesus Christ as savior, that he is Lord of your life. Just talking about your doubting. I saved when I was 12 years old, but when I was 15 or 16, I was wondering, am I really saved? And you know, fear is, still coming into my life. And I remember in the bed on a Sunday night after being at church on Sunday morning, Sunday night in the youth group and preaching, and I went home and I was just scared. And then I said to myself, I said it out loud, God, if I go to hell, I'm going to go to hell trusting Jesus. I want to just tell you, I listened to myself saying that out loud and I said, you dummy. I talk about Bert Harper. Listen, I've trusted Jesus Christ. He is Lord of my life. I'm no longer letting fear come in between my knowledge of knowing Christ and following him. And I just want to tell you, I. He, saves to the uttermost. So Charlie, pray that you've trusted him. Let's go to one more before we go to break. Rhett in Georgia. Is it Rhett?
>> Caroline: It is Rhett.
>> Bert Harper: Okay, go ahead, man.
>> Caroline: Hey, quick question. I'm 70 years old, been a Christian for a very, very long time. But my awareness in the Christian, area is in regards to the nar, especially with Paula White and the Faith Department, the new apostolic, Reformation. Can you give some enlightenment in regards to this? This was an eye opener for me and I just thought others might like to be aware of that.
>> Bert Harper: Rhett. Thank you, Alex. Don't have a lot of time. Get as much done in this segment as you can.
>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And I'm going to come back. This is worthy of, somewhat, ah, lengthy answer. Okay. There was the man that coined that phrase, the new Apostolic Reformation was a guy named Peter Wagner, and he's passed away. He was a Christian leader. to really understand this and basically here's the positive that Christians should have an influence, on the world around us. And of course, my goodness, from the Roman Empire to the present moment, where people sincerely live out the gospel, it improves society. there's a lot of people on the left that freak out and they really, really, they don't like it. but I want to, I'll talk further. The nar, New Apostolic Reformation, the pluses, the cautions. May we do that after this break?
>> Bert Harper: Let's do that. Rhett. Hang on and we'll take that call and finish it on out. We've got other people waiting and we'll get to your call as soon as we can. Here on Exploring the Word.
>> Jeff Chamblee: AFA Action takes attacks on, the family seriously. The enemies of the family constantly employ new tactics to try to sneak past our radar. They know if we stand together, their evil plans will fail. Your gift to AFA action allows us to stay vigilant against their onslaught. And if you give this month, you'll receive access to the Cultural Institute video when your faith is illegal by Frank Harbour on AFA stream as our thanks, you can make your gift today@acaaction.net welcome.
>> Alex McFarland: Back to Exploring the Word. A lot of really great. And we're going to resume in just a moment. First, hey, let me give you a little heads up on our speaker series. It's called Conversations that Matter. And I'm leading a Christian speaker series throughout the summer. And, we've got a big event coming up, May 4th, Sunday night, May 4th, in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Now, that's just a great place to go. It really is a wonderful region. And it's Dinesh D'Souza. And Dinesh is a Christian writer, just a brilliant political analyst. He was in the Reagan White House and, policy analyst and frankly, very witty, very funny, but I kid you not, one of the most inspiring, powerful public speakers you'll ever hear. So I want to ask you to pray. My website is alexmcfarland.com conversations May 4th. Dinesh D'Souza. We've got a lot of other great speakers throughout the summer, like Charlie Kirk. The other thing is, our Christian youth camps are coming up. The website for the summer Bible camps are equipretreat.org and one especially where outside of Richmond, Virginia. the Virginia Baptists have a Camp Pianka Tank, that's named for a river. we've rented it for the first week of August and we're asking God for 60 teenagers to come and we're well on the way. But a summer camp, Bert, when I talk about Biblical Worldview Camp, I say this. Invest a week. That will count for a lifetime.
>> Bert Harper: Amen.
>> Alex McFarland: Check out our youth camps equipretreat.org Amen.
>> Bert Harper: I hope everybody listens that. Do your best if you're close by or even if you have to travel, it's worth it. Go ahead, Alex, Go ahead. You were answering, Rhett. And complete your answer there, brother.
>> Alex McFarland: Well, let me say this. the new Apostolic Reformation. It's the left. Oh, they're very paranoid. Oh, my goodness. These Christians want to take over the world. but this goes back a long way. In fact, let me name one of the most, respected Christian leaders of our lifetime was Chuck Colson. And he was a close personal friend. And Dr. Colson, Charles Colson. He would often talk about the home, the church, the classroom, the media, the marketplace, the judiciary, the arts, the sciences. In other words, all of these realms. The classroom, government, business, education, medicine. Chuck Colson would say, we need people in all of these realms with a biblical worldview. Nothing wrong with that, you know, but, some think that Christians, and here's a word, theonomists. Now a theonomist is one that wants to implement Old Testament law and stone shoplifters and things like that is not what this is about. So on the one hand, I agree we need to have Christianity in all strata of life. But, some outside the church, whenever Christians talk about the seven mountains of influence or eight engines that drive the culture, they get very nervous. and Bert, let me just say there probably are some well meaning but overreaching Christians that want to go too far. Here's my point. In America, we have the best of both worlds. We have a constitutional republic. Our constitution is based on the law of Moses. You can't go 10ft in Washington and not see pictures of Moses and the ten Commandments. And Bert, I think what we've had in America, if the church would make its voice heard once again, we've got freedom of religious expression, we've got liberty, security. what we need, is truth in the public square. And that's Abraham Kuyper, Chuck Colson, James Dobson and John Maxwell. one of the people we've had on this show, Jim Garlow, you remember of out in California, he has talked about this. So that's, that's what that's about. To some, nar is a compliment. To others, it's a bad word. But I just believe we need everybody to find Jesus and biblical principles shape the way we live. Amen.
>> Bert Harper: if you want a good view of this, what you do, you mentioned Chuck Colson, kingdoms in conflict. If you could get that book and read it, I want to just tell you it will be the balance that you need for having Christians in these seven areas of all of, you know, society. Chuck, Colson, kingdoms in Conflict. I want to tell you, it will bless you. Let's go to Texas and talk to Olin. Olin, thank you for calling.
>> Caroline: Yeah, Brother Harper and brother Alex, I am on a, super roll today. Calling you from a hospital I've been in for a Week and a half and, I've got bad news. But there's two things keeping, me going. God keeps repeating things so we won't forget. He loves us. He teaches anything we do in love. And the most important thing I've learned is who is in control.
>> Bert Harper: Hallelujah. Hallelujah, Olen. Amen. who was it? God is in control. Who. Who wrote that? Brent, do you remember? Okay, I can't remember. Twilight Paris, I think if I'm not mistaken. But he is in control, Olen. But we're going to pray for you, man. Alex, I want to have that kind of spirit when I get bad news about my health. Thank you, Olin. That's encouraging, isn't it, Alex?
>> Alex McFarland: It is. And sir, we're praying for you and that. That joy you've got. we rejoice in that, Father.
>> Bert Harper: We pray for Olin right now. Thank you for making yourself real to him, that you're bringing to his memory who you are, what you've done, and the surety of tomorrow. We give you praise, for we know we can trust you. Cause you are in control. So thank you, Olin. You've blessed us today and, blessed the AFR family, I tell you. And that was Twilight, Paris. God is in control. Amen. Thank you. Let's go to Ohio and talk to William. William, thank you for calling.
>> Speaker F: Thanks for having me.
>> Bert Harper: Go right ahead, man.
>> Speaker F: Appreciate your ministry. I've got a question about, evangelism. do Catholic people who either are practicing or just. They just say they're Catholic? again, not bashing Catholics, but. But, is there a. Sometimes there's, you know, different meanings for the same terms in Christianity, so can be a little confusing. I just have a burden to that the people truly are born again and saved. And I know in the Catholic Church some of the teaching is not necessarily biblical, but, what is a sensitive way to share with someone who's Catholic just to clarify that they're truly saved by faith alone and not the church or tradition or works?
>> Bert Harper: That's a good question, William. Matter of fact, I was talking to someone recently that was in the Catholic Church. They were married. And the. The other person, the husband, asked her this before they were married. Are, you a Christian? She said yes. But she said later on she found out she needed to be born again, and it was what was lacking, in her life that caused this to happen. Alex, have you found a good way to bring that about, with. Not just Catholics, man. Baptists, Methodists, listen, all Baptists sure are not saved. I've seen a lot of them, Alex, that's come to know the Lord after they were baptized earlier, didn't know the Lord and then they got right with God.
>> Alex McFarland: You know, the Billy Graham ministry that we have such a love and respect for and they had over the life of Billy Graham, countless, countless people come forward to make sure they were saved. And three fourths, 75% plus of all the people making a first time salvation decision were already church members. and the caller makes a great point. Let me just say this. whether you're sharing salvation with a, Catholic or any person, the question is, am I trusting my religion to get me to heaven or have I had a personal relationship with Christ? Now, I think the caller made a good point in that we've got to make sure that we're understanding terminology. we could say salvation. Well, we know as a person that believes the New Testament, salvation means one has put their faith in Christ. Not works, but trust belief. That's Acts 16:31. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. and like I said earlier, First John 5:1, if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, you are born of God. So here's some words that we need to be straight on the definition. Salvation, Jesus, atonement. What does the atonement mean? It means that on the cross of Calvary, my sin debt was paid. And then I would say one of the greatest things you can do is by your own personal testimony, my, life before I met Christ, how I met Christ, my life since I met Christ. And oh, P.S. you can meet Christ.
>> Bert Harper: Amen.
>> Alex McFarland: You know, and just help people. We've got great respect to a degree for many of the Catholic scholars that were apologists. And we on this show, we don't bash Catholicism and we don't elevate Protestantism. We're trying to elevate Christ in his word. But I think that, talking in a respectful back and forth, that's very helpful. And as trust and frankly drawing people to Christ and they see that Jesus is real in your life, they'll, want it in their life too.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. What I was taught early on about before how I met and after I met Christ. And you can as well, you try to get that done in two to three minutes because they'll, they'll, you know, if they ask more questions, then you can go further. But present it as thoroughly as you can in that time frame and it really makes a difference. William, thank you for Being a soul winner, brother. Keep it up. Let's go to Arkansas and talk to Ken. Ken, thank you for calling. Ken, are you there?
>> Alex McFarland: I am, I am. I call.
>> Speaker D: Buzzed me.
>> Bert Harper: Okay. Go right ahead, man.
>> Caroline: Hey, we were having a discussion in, a Bible study, and it was about God being a just God.
>> Speaker D: And I know that there's every. I think everybody believes that there's going to be different levels of reward in heaven. But in Luke, Luke I believe it's 12, and I don't have the verse in front of me. It talks about for those who didn't.
>> Caroline: know the master's will will receive.
>> Speaker D: Less stripes than those who did on the master's return. Does that mean that there are going to be different levels of punishment in hell? I mean, any separation from God is horrible. But are there places worse in hell?
>> Bert Harper: Again, asking that question is a great question. Let me say this according to what you find out in Luke 16 with the man you, know. Lazarus went to paradise, Abraham's bosom, the rich man went to hell. The worst thing that I could see in that hell. He was tormented, he was thirsty. But the memory, Alex, the opportunity over and over again, replaying that in your mind. You don't want to do that. Come to Christ, Alex, go ahead.
>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I think. And great scholars of old have thought, yes, there will be degrees of punishment in hell, because, ultimately we're going to be judged on the response we gave to the truth that we knew. And sinners, are separated from God. But there are people in this world that, yes, they have the law of God written on their heart. They have the witness of creation. Psalm 19, regarding creation, pointing to the Creator. Psalm, 19 says there's no place on earth where the voice of creation is not heard. And Romans 1 tells us that even God's eternal power and nature, right? So everybody knows about God. But here's the thing. Maybe the person in some remote area, and they. They never heard about Jesus. They didn't respond to their conscience, but. And they're. They're lost, sadly. But then you've got the man on Main Street, USA, and he's heard the gospel 5,000 times. And Billy Graham and David, Jeremiah were on the television. And you drive past 25 churches to get to work on a weekday. it would be far worse to go to hell from America, where you've heard the gospel every which way you turn versus the poor soul, in some remote area that had little knowledge. Here's the point. For every one of us Respond to the truth that you know, because we will be accountable for what we did with truth.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. that. That I believe it's going to be worse and the memory is going to even be more. How many times did I have the opportunity and I did not take it? That's what the person in hell would be. We're going to go to David and I.
>> Alex McFarland: What?
>> Bert Harper: David, don't have a lot of time. Do it as quickly as you can and we'll let Alex respond.
>> Speaker F: Hey, we were just going over Romans 13 in our Bible study, and we were having a hard time of, when do you submit to the government versus, like, when might it be acceptable, to rebel against the government?
>> Alex McFarland: Okay.
>> Bert Harper: M. Alex, take it away, man.
>> Alex McFarland: Great, great question. Hey, one of the best books on this is by Norm Geisler, Christian Ethics, Options and Issues. Geisler, G E I S L E R. Hey, by the way, we are to submit to the government unless the government is trying to compel you to betray God and His Word. and if we had no recourse, but we still, in America, we have recourse. We have our voice and our vote. And I believe the church should exercise both.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. We should. And that's why AFR exists, allotted the gospel and this freedom that we have to proclaim the good news of Christ. Thank you, David. Richard wished we could have gotten to you today, but thank you for calling, and we thank for all of you for listening. And we pray that God would bless you and enrich you and may you let God have His way in your life as we continue to serve him. Listen, Tell someone about exploring the Word, but more importantly, tell them, about Jesus.
>> Alex McFarland: The views and opinions expressed in this.
>> Bert Harper: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of.
>> Jeff Chamblee: The American Family association or American Family Radio.
