Transcript

The Bible is the living and active word of God

>> Alex McFarland: The Bible. It's the word of God, sharper than any two edged sword.

>> Bert Harper: This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Welcome to Exploring the Word. Merry Christmas.

Alex McFarland and Burt Harper discuss Isaiah chapter 27 today

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome to Exploring the word today. Alex McFarland, Burt Harper. You're listening to the American Family Radio Network. We're going to continue In Isaiah, chapter 27, our study of this very significant prophetic, prophetic Old Testament book. But we're also going to take calls later on in the show and if you're a regular listener, you know that on Tuesdays we take prayer requests and we, we take the Bible questions as we regularly do. But we also, we gotta pray for each other. We maximize on prayer on Tuesdays and this day will be no exception. But Bert, I'm loving our study of Isaiah. I know it's very much in depth, but Isaiah 27 is where we were yesterday and, and there was talk of punishing Leviathan, that twisted serpent, which very much is pictorial of Satan and the fallen world systems. But there's going to be talk about the Lord's vineyard, a song of praise to God for his care of the vineyard. And Bert, talk about the Lord's vineyard. Does that kind of remind you of John 15 where Jesus said, you know, I'm the vine, you were the branches, and the husbandman cares for the vineyard. Did it sort of remind you of that even?

>> Bert Harper: It does. And I, would say this. Anytime you hear about a vineyard or a vine, that passage is so strong and so real. Anybody that has a good bit of Bible knowledge, I think they would go back there and just relate it. Alex. We are to abide in him. And this is, I'm just going to say it. What an opportunity every believer has to abide in him. It's not just being attached, but it's abiding in. When you think of the body, we, as the body, it's the blood flow. When you think of the vine, it's that connection and the, I would say all the juices that go from one to the other. And so yes, I do, Alex, and I didn't mean to go on and on about it, but it's a beautiful picture of our relationship that we have with Christ Jesus.

Isaiah 27 talks about the guilt of Jacob by way of exile

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, Isaiah 27 talks about the guilt of Jacob, which is really dealt with by way of exile. And those that were perishing will one day worship the Lord. But do you know Israel, over and over they had when they would sort of backslide, not Sort of. But they would backslide. They would be exiled very often taken out of their land. And do you know, even to this day, Israel, and we are big, big supporters of the nation of Israel. But even to this day, they don't fully occupy all of the land that God promised Abraham. Now, they will one day. We know that. But the exile of Jacob was part of what was, due to his sin. But we're going to pick it up there in seven. let me read a little bit, and then we'll comment. He has struck Israel as he struck those who struck him. Or has he been slain according to the SL of those who were slain by him in measure? By sending it away, you contended with it. He removes it by his rough wind in the day of the east wind. And by the way, during, the tribulation, soldiers will come from the east to fight at Armageddon. The east wind, I think, is really pictorial of how the judgment of God sometimes comes through the wrath of man. Therefore, by this, the iniquity of Jacob will be covered. And this is all the fruit of taking away his sin. When he makes all the stones of the altar, like chalk stones that are beaten to dust, wooden images and incense, altars will not stand. There is a purging of idolatry, a purging of false religion, and a purging of unbelief. And, chastisement is never fun. It can be painful. It is painful. But, Bert, isn't even the chastisement of God an example of his love?

>> Bert Harper: It is because he wants us to turn over again. You'll have the word return. Sometimes it would just be plain, turn you turn, or ye, as it says plural, turn, ye turn to the Lord. And so it's through that. And the Book of Judges proves that as much as any book in the Bible, when they were serving God, and they would have a great time, but then they would turn away, God would send a judgment, and then he would send a deliverer. And he'd deliver them again and again. and so that is what God has used. And most of the time it is armies of other nations. Sometimes it's drought difficulty. But, it is used there in verse 10. It concentrates on Jerusalem. And you'll find that all through the book of Isaiah. Yet the fortified city will be desolate, the habitation forsaken and left like a wilderness. There the cat calf will feed, and there it will lie down and consume its branches. And you see that again Jerusalem. And, Judah would be overrun by the Assyrians. But Jerusalem would not be captured. God would intervene at the right time, and then later on, the Babylonians would come around and they would even take Jerusalem. And they would be taken captive, as you said, Alex, because of their idolatry really is the issue, because the idolatry always led to immorality. The idolatry led to covetousness of the, rich people and leave the other people behind. And so idolatry always leads to corruption, doesn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: It does, it does. And let's talk about verse 10 there for a second. The fortified cities will be desolate. Now, Bert, what a lot of commentators think, and I think this is accurate, the world systems, the city of man, will be made desolate by the judgment of the Lord.

Bert Dobson: Fortified cities restrain those from without

And I want to talk about, in the English, the word fortified there for a minute. It's Hebrew word. not going to try to pronounce it, but it means walled up. Now, it also means this. Fortified cities, those from without are restrained. Let me give you an example. Maybe you've been through a city and, maybe, let's say there's a jewelry store, and when they close after hours, not only do they lock the door, but they pull down like some metal gate or something like that. Maybe you've been in a rough part of town and you'll see over the windows, there'll be bars over the stores. That's fortified to restrain those on the outside. And, in the ancient world, like Jericho was a fortified city, a walled up city, but yet the walls of Jericho fell. And so the city of man, maybe they think they can insulate themselves from an outside force like the hand of God. You know, Bert, laws have been passed that you can't speak about Jesus. In certain countries, even here in America, Maine and California and other states like Michigan have proposed laws making it criminal to tell people that they can turn away from sexual sin and be saved. Anti conversion therapy laws. Well, let me say this. physically, legally, societally, culturally, you can fortify yourself and try to keep God out. But the cities of man, According to Isaiah 27:10, the habitations will be forsaken and left like a wilderness. Bert, the efforts of man, the bias against God, those fortifications won't stand, will they?

>> Bert Harper: They will not. The two things that they were relying on in that day was the fortifications of the city and alliances with other nations. Okay, again, outside relying on. What are you relying on? they, in their existence, they were relying on these cities. They were fortified with Jerusalem. They thought okay, we fortified. We'll make these alliances. And they had this small amount of faith in God. Well, God's always delivered us. He'll deliver us again. Well, God let that city, Jerusalem and other cities, and as you say, in our day, whatever we built up around us to keep those, the enemies out that we think they're enemies, they cannot overcome the evil, but they also cannot overcome what God is going to do. And so here it is, the consumed. Its branches boughs were withered, broken off. The women come and set them on fire. Again, Alex, we see that notice in the last part of verse 11. Therefore, he who made them will not have mercy on them. He who formed them will show them no favor. There's this. The spirit of God does not always strive with man. He brought on the flood, he brought on the fire from, you know, for Sodom and Gomorrah. The Tower of Babel was destroyed. There's this, and I, I don't dare say where it is. Okay, Alex, but there's a limit. Not for, I would say cities, countries that. Okay, you stepped over this line. and, so here it is. That was just. That's very threatening. Therefore, he who made them will not have mercy on them. He who formed them will show them no favor. I just want to say, we as believers in America, those that are listening, we are bombarding heaven. Lord, help us turn to you, because we can have a great economy and we can still fall. We can have a big army and we can still fall. We can keep out illegality and put people in prison and do everything and still fall if our alliance is on ourselves rather than God. Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: Mhm? Have you ever heard the famous quote by Lee Robertson, everything rises or falls on leadership.

>> Bert Harper: Leadership. That's right.

>> Alex McFarland: And understand that in many a context that's true. James Dobson, that was my boss and mentor, he said, everything rises or falls with the family. And I think about this, let me read this about. The boughs are withered, broken off. The women come and set them on fire. In other words, all of the arms of a culture, education, economics, art, the alleged accomplishments of the human race. It's like the brush to be burned in the brush pile, if you rule out God, for it is a people of no understanding. In other words, there's no discernment. I'm going to come back to that. Therefore, he who made them will not have mercy on them. And he who formed them will show them no favor. Listen, all humans are made by God, created in the image of God. But if you reject Jesus, if you turn from God, if you denigrate and despise God's word and build your world on that which is false and sinful, ungodly, immoral. Just because you're a human being doesn't mean God's going to show you mercy. If you forsake salvation in Jesus and God's way of truth, you're under judgment. Now, here's my point. When Dr. Dobson would say, everything rises or falls on the family. Now we're getting to be about probably 60 years removed from the sexual revolution, the feminist movement, the abandonment of marriage, morals, childbearing family. there was the liberalizing of clergy in many a quarter. And then here we are in 2025, Bert, and we really are in a moral and societal and certainly spiritual free fall. Turns out the family was kind of important, and we better do our best with God's help to get it back. Turns out raising children was important for the preservation of the society. Turns out raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord was not only imperative spiritually, but just the preservation of our society. I was interviewed this morning by Chad Groening. Right now, even as we speak, hundreds and hundreds of Muslims are running for office. School board, city council, mayoral elections. Turns out the church and the home were pretty important to the preservation of America. And we're like this, people of no understanding that we've made our bed and it's not pretty. May God help us.

>> Bert Harper: may he help us is right, Alex. Well, we're going to return right after this break, and we're going to finish chapter 27 and go into 28, and we're going to see some of God's woes. W o e you don't want to miss it.

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>> Bert Harper: All that little life has is.

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>> Bert Harper: And that's when everything changed. Because when I saw my baby,

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>> Bert Harper: We give up his right. Let our hearts be made is whole. Amen. Amen. It is tough, being the only guy that's not a musician here on this team of Brent, Alex and Bert. Alex, man guitar, Brent the drums and Burt the radio. ah, but anyway, I appreciate Brent. He, he does a great job picking out the music. And I just wanted to say thank you, man. I appreciate that.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you.

>> Bert Harper: I appreciate it. Yeah.

Alex: Our assignment today is to proclaim the gospel to the whole world

Well, let's start in verse 12 and 13. Here's a repeated word, Alex, in that or really phrase in that day. Notice verse 12. And it shall come to pass in that day. Verse 13. So it shall be in that day. Now notice what it does in verse 14. This is kind of talking about the feast. What you have in chapters 26 and 27 are, what you call pictures or word pictures or images that Isaiah used to show about what in that day what God was going to do. And here it's a, feast. And let me read 12 and 13. And it shall come to pass in that day that the Lord will thresh from the channel of the river to the brook of Egypt. And you will be gathered one by one, O you children of Israel, from all over. So it shall be in that day. Now listen, this, this is the key that the great trumpet will be blown. They will come who are about to perish in the land of Assyria, and they who are outcasts in the land of Egypt and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. Now what he's been talking about is the Jerusalem, the fortified city being left desolate. But now there's coming in that day when it will be gathered up and be together and Egypt, Assyria, who, who have been fighting against them and coming against them. And even in our day, they will worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. Alex, let me just say there's going to be a day.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. You know, what's fascinating is, you know, the, the outcast of the lands of Egypt, really, it's talking about. And the Hebrew word for this, I'm probably going to pronounce it wrong, is Mitsrayim M I T S R A Y I M and it literally means the, the sons of Ham in northwest Africa that became the Egyptian and, the Egyptians. And of course we know that, the Egyptians, persecuted The Hebrews, but there's going to be judgment there. And ultimately, and you know, only God knows when this is going to happen, and only God knows all of the participants, but the Arabs, the Muslims, or I should say this, the sons of Ishmael and all the tribes of the earth will, as verse, 13 says, worship the Lord in the holy man at Jerusalem. Now, I don't mean that those that died lost will not be lost anymore. Hebrews 9:27. It's appointed unto man once to die, and after this, the judgment. And there is no second chance after death. But one day, Bert, the tribes of the earth existing at the time of the return will worship the Lord in the holy mountain. And that's going to be a great day.

>> Bert Harper: Now, our Alex, let me say this. Don't you think we need to be a part. You and I, we know we're a part of that. And those who would respond to Jesus Christ today, can they be a part of that as we all gather, even in eternity past, in that day?

>> Alex McFarland: Absolutely. You know, Josh McDowell, he always says this. He says, I'm, on my way to heaven. I want to take as many people with me as I possibly can. Our assignment right now. Bert, I was on an interview this morning about our book on prophecy, and it's great to speculate and talk about, and we've got some pretty solid answers for many, many questions. But ultimately, our assignment today, that we do understand and we know we are to proclaim the gospel. We are to do our utmost to help people find salvation through faith in Jesus. all of the details and the minutia about our past and our future. We know some things and some things we don't. But I tell you what we do know. We know that the whole wide world needs to hear about Jesus. And that's the assignment of the hour, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. And so, that's what AFR one of our mission statement is to aid the church in carrying the Gospel here and all over the world. And that's what we do. And because of Internet, Alex, even AFR is able to do that now. It's in the English language, we realize that, but it's still, able people able to access. And that's why you and I on this program, we share about the gospel so much. We tell people to get right with God and do it now, don't delay. And I would say that again, because when you come to chapter 28, as I said as we were going out, you're going to find some woes. When you see w o e in the Old Testament or in the NewSong Testament woe, you better wait and look and see. Here it is. Notice chapter 28, verse 1. Woe to the crown of pride. To the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower which is at the head of the verdant valleys. To those who are overcome with wine, behold, the Lord has a mighty and strong one, like a tempest of hail and destroying storm, like a flood of mighty waters overflowing, who will bring them down to the earth with his hand. Now, again, it says, the crown of pride. The drunkards of Ephraim will be trampled under foot. Now, Alex, all of a sudden, he turns to the northern kingdom. Ephraim, the northern kingdom, not Judah, right here. But in verses one through six, he's concentrating on them. And he's telling this to the who whole tribe, saying, you see what's going to happen to Ephraim, which is a. One of those fortified cities. It's going to be brought low. Listen, you need to get, Judah, Jerusalem. You need to get right now because it's happening to your sister city up there. It can happen to you. And so, Alex, he sets this up and he really paints the picture of this fading flower two times, verse one. And then he does it again in verse four, doesn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: He does.

Bert says autonomy is the idea that I'm not accountable to God

And let's talk about, Ephraim just a little bit, because it's very fascinating. The name, means doubly fruitful. and so, Ephraim was, a son of Joseph from his Egyptian wife, there was Ephraim and Manasseh. Now, in the book of Hosea, Ephraim is chastised for idolatry. Ephraim is chastised for really being in partnerships or leagues with heathen nations. And in 722, they were captured by the Assyrians. But when it says that, you know, Ephraim is a fading flower, that's really kind of a play on words of what their name was supposed to be. Now, the drunkards of Ephraim, yeah, I think they were literally drunkards, but also probably drunk with the idea of power and autonomy. And let me say, autonomy is the idea that I'm not really answerable to God. You know, I'm okay. I can do kind of what I want. That's a delusion, isn't it, Bert? we are accountable to God. And when we live as if we're not, there's a price to pay.

>> Bert Harper: Alex, let me say this. That's the reason Darwinism became so accepted. It had nothing to do with the science. It had to do with accountability. If we can do away with God in man coming about through creation, then the accountability fades. So that's why the world desires that. Go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, it says, woe to the crown of pride, and it talks about Verdant Valley. Verdant, means very fruitful and lush, and there's been rain, and it's great for agriculture. And they had valleys of vineyards, and they made wine. And it says, the crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim will be trampled underfoot. Now, you might not think drunkenness or materialism or autonomy is pride, but it really is, because pride, like Lucifer, was guilty of the sin of pride. There is the assumption that I can do my thing, I can live my life, and I'm not. I don't have to answer up to God. I'm going to live like I want to live, Bert. That is pride. And it is definitely the roadmap to destruction, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. And it's not. It's going to continue in this chapter about the drunkenness. And again it goes again and again. verse five. In that day. Again, I know I'm making a big deal out of that phrase, but it is in that day. In other words, there's a day coming here. It is the day the Lord of hosts, Almighty God, will be for a crown of glory and a diadem of beauty, to the remnant of his people, for a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, and for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate. But they also have erred through wine. Now, okay, Ephraim, what they're talking about in verses one, through six, it's to Ephraim, the northern tribe, or, you know, the country. But they also have erred through wine. And it comes down to Judah. And through intoxicating drink, are out of the way. The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink. They are swallowed up by wine. They are out of the way through intoxicating drink. They err in vision, and they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness so that no place is clean. Leadership. You said rise and fall on leadership. Here it is. The spiritual leaders that they have have fallen by the wayside through drunkenness. Have you heard of this proverb about drunkenness, Alex? First man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, and then the drink takes the man.

>> Alex McFarland: Wow.

>> Bert Harper: And, I understand it's a Japanese proverb, that they came. Yes, that's my research of that. But here it is. It shows you that they are being governed again. They're looking for an out, a drunkenness of feelings. It makes them irrational in their judgment. It makes them irrational in their speech, in their vision. And notice, they err. They miss the mark, don't they?

>> Alex McFarland: They do nine, and ten is very interesting. and really it's these drunken priests. Imagine the priest and the clergy, you know, trying to preach and teach, intoxicated.

>> Bert Harper: That's just, that's what they're trying to do.

>> Alex McFarland: Blasphemous. Think about, okay, whom will he teach? Knowledge. And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned for milk. Those just drawn from the breast, by the way. Let me just say sometimes, it's easier to give birth than to raise the dead. Sometimes it's better to teach and disciple young people who've not had years of their mind corrupted by false worldviews. I gotta tell you, that's one of the reasons that we've for 27 years invested our life in evangelizing teenagers and doing youth camps is, it's much easier. Listen carefully, folks. To evangelize a, ah, young person than to fix a horribly broken adult. Now, God loves people of all ages, and anyone at any age could come to Christ if they would. But, to preemptively evangelize and disciple young people really is easier than trying to deal with a broken adult with baggage in their heart and their head.

Bertrand Russell: This mocking is mocking the simplicity of the message

But let me go back to this. This is really mocking the simplicity of the message. Precept upon precept, line upon line. Here a little, there a little. Bert, I want to say this. the Bible is. I know it's deep and there are some things that are hard to understand, but really the Bible is very, very clear.

>> Bert Harper: It is.

>> Alex McFarland: And there's a phrase that comes out of the Protestant Reformation, the perspicuity of scripture. Now, what does perspicuous mean? It means it's understandable. folks, when the Bible says you must be born again, you know what that means, really means? You must be born again. Put your faith in Jesus, trust the Lord, believe his word. That's what it means. And so the drunken priests here are mocking. is it simple as that? Hear a little there, A little. It really is. One last thing I'll throw back to you. Billy Graham, when He in the 50s became world famous and with such great, faithfulness, preached the gospel around the world. Some of the liberal clergy criticized him. They said, well, this simple gospel message, this is going to set the church back 50 years. He said, well, I was hoping to set it back 2000 years. Back to the simple. Jesus is real. God's word is true. And I want to say this. I'll throw it to you, Bert. When the Bible says a man shall not lay with a man, that's what it means. When the Bible says God made male and female, that's what it means. When it says marriage is between a man and a woman. One man, one woman for one lifetime, that's what it means. And let the world mock. Let the world be critical of us narrow, backward Bible believers. That's okay. They didn't give their life for us.

>> Bert Harper: Jesus did preach it, brother. He goes on and says, yes, the message of God is. It is understandable. Okay, you can repent or perish. It is understandable. Line on line here a little bit. There a little. It does.

>> Alex McFarland: Look at verse 11. Stammering lips.

>> Bert Harper: That's what they're trying to. They're mocking. That's the whole idea. But the mocking that they're doing will ensnare them. Look at that. Snared and caught. When you mock God and you mock God's message, that is through Isaiah, through Amos, through Micah, and especially those 8th century B.C. Prophet Salex, there was a lot of mocking. Where is God? Even in Second Peter? Where is the promise of his coming? You've been talking about it mocking. And here I just got to say this. Notice what it says in verse 14. As we finish up today. Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men who rule this people who are in Jerusalem because you have said, we have made a covenant with death and with Shew, we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, it will not come to us. For we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood we have hidden ourselves. Listen, there's going to come a day when it's going to become real. You don't want to be like the rich man and in hell. He lifted up his eyes and then he knew he had missed it. You don't want to miss it. Get with God right now. Well, we're going to take phone calls. Day of prayer, that number. 888-589-8840. We'd love to hear your prayer request your question today. And we would love to worship the Lord with you.

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>> Alex McFarland: Keep on pounding on heaven's door. Let your knees wear out the floor.

>> Caroline: Don't stop believing. Cause mountains move with just a little faith.

>> Alex McFarland: And your father's heard every single word you're saying.

>> Caroline: So don't stop praying.

>> Alex McFarland: Did you hear that lyric in there? That mountains move with just a little faith.

Bert Harper: Christmas is nine days away. It's getting ever closer

Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Bert Harper. Alex McFarland here. Hey, here's the toll free number. It's 888-589-8840. We will take your prayer request today and we'll answer your Bible questions. And I want to say a big, big merry Christmas to everybody. It's getting ever closer that day that the whole wide world we acknowledge and we celebrate the birth of Jesus. And I hope in your heart and just, just deep within your soul, you're thinking about Christmas. Here it is. Christmas is proof of how much God loves us.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And it's nine days away. Nine days away. Yeah. It is upon us and we've been celebrating it all year, but I enjoy the Christmas songs. But on Tuesdays, don't stop praying. Brent puts that in, interrupts it on Tuesday because we have a day of prayer. So that day of prayer today going to Scott.

Scott has had 37 surgeries in his life at 64 years old

Start off with Scott in Kansas. Scott, thank you for calling. Scott, are you there?

>> Caroline: Yes, I am. Can you hear me?

>> Bert Harper: Yes, sir, I can now. Go right ahead, brother. Yeah.

>> Caroline: Yes. I love your program. Can you hear me?

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, go ahead. We're Hearing you, we're.

>> Caroline: But I want to share a quick testimony. I was born with severe scoliosis, severe club foot, nine back surgery, several club foot. A total of 37 surgeries in my life at 64 years old. And, anyway, I had a incident happen in September that set off a severe muscle spasm between my shoulder blades. I mean, it takes too long to explain it all where for two and a half months I was in extreme pain. And I got the Saturday 4 Thanksgiving, I despaired of life. I ended up on a senior psych unit. For a while, they were able to, with concentrated focus, get the muscle spasm relaxed. But, it was very difficult. But, this Advent season has become very special to me. I've never paid much attention to Advent, but I had good Christian brothers and even other friends that walked very close beside me that kept my hope alive in Christ. And then I had a brother challenged me, a few nights after getting out of the hospital to talk about, you know, ruminating about some negative things that had happened. He challenged me to take every thought captive. That night when I started ruminating about some stuff, I just literally said, stop. And then I went to Philippians 4 that starts off with, Paul says that peace that passes understanding. But to get that piece of passes understanding, you truly need to think on those things that Paul listed. And then I began just, for the next, you know, all the way till Sunday, you know, actively taking thoughts captive.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Caroline: And. And, yeah, I truly came to understand Isaiah 26:3, that he'll keep us in perfect peace. His God state, you know, his mind stayed on me. And Sunday morning I went to church, first time in several weeks. The previous week, they lit the hope candle. That week the pastor lit peace candle. Talks about peace. And since then, I'm telling everybody, like, I had appointments with some doctors today. I'm telling receptionists about the joy of the Lord in me.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Caroline: If you ask me how I am, I will respond. It is well with my soul.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Scott, listen, we're going to stop right there. It is well with my soul. Alex, the story of that song, if people don't know it, you can find it out. But a family, all but the wife, the children, sank in the Atlantic Ocean, crossing the Atlantic from America to Europe. And when the father came along and they told him this is where this happened, he penned those words. It is well with my soul. And it was later put into a song.

>> Alex McFarland: Horatio Spafford.

>> Bert Harper: What a song. And Scott 37 surgeries. Ah, Scott let me recommend you listen to Hope for a caregiver. You can Google it and find out where it is. And I think you'll be blessed by it. Because his wife has had 60 something surgeries. I think that's the number. Could be more and I, think you'd be blessed by it. Although you're not necessarily the caregiver, I still think you would be blessed by that program. Listen, that number that we have is 888-589-8840. If you can call, go right ahead. Let's go to Suzanne. Suzanne in Alabama. Suzanne, thank you for calling.

>> Caroline: Thank you so much. I, my mother and her husband, who are both passed away, thought a lot of you two and went to a conference where you were and she died of pancreatic cancer in June and driving back and forth to Mississippi to take care of her. I listened to you two faithfully and soaked up every word.

>> Bert Harper: Wow.

>> Alex McFarland: And thank you to God.

>> Caroline: The encouragement that you all give is so important.

>> Bert Harper: God bless you, Suzanne. Pray that we'll keep on doing it. The word of God is that powerful and you don't want to miss it.

Alex: Suzanne asks for prayer for strength after recent tragedies

You want to get the warnings. I'm just sharing this real quick. And Suzanne, I'm not cutting you off, but I did want to emphasize that the warnings we try to give, but we try to give those warnings with hope. Hope that people will turn. Isn't that right, Alex? That's what we try to do.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, what is such a blessing. And listen, in the strongest possible terms, look, we give God the glory, but Bert and I are two friends that we love the Lord and we love his Word. I was on ah, a radio interview this morning, Bert on another Christian network. but the guy interviewing me, he said, I just have to tell you how much we love exploring the Word. And now this is a different Christian network, but they were saying how everybody here listens to Exploring the Word on AFR every afternoon. Now we're not competitors. Look, Salem Moody, the Dove, bot. We're all just trying to lift up Jesus. But I had to smile because this guy is another major, major Christian network. He said, but every afternoon about 3 to 4 Central, all throughout our building, you can hear people listening to Exploring.

>> Bert Harper: The Word and give God the glory.

>> Alex McFarland: Glory to God.

>> Bert Harper: Suzanne, you had a prayer request. Go ahead. Don't want to miss that.

>> Caroline: Well, one more important thing. When my stepfather died, I, got in the car to drive. And what you were talking about is the concrete steps that happen when a Christian goes to heaven. And that was such an, such a, undergirding for me. And with all the tragedies in the last few years, I would just ask that you all would pray for strength of body and mind and that joy could come back to our house.

>> Bert Harper: Listen, it. Difficulties can drain you. Okay, Alex? Right. M. Difficult. You've gone through them. I mean, caring for your parents, for Angie's parents. The financial stress you found yourself in when, when that was taking place. I, Jan and myself raising three sons, having three teenage boys at one time, I'll just tell you, it's. It's stressful. And, But during that time, the joy of the Lord and, it. It's kind of like waves. The difficulties come in waves. But God has, Has. Has secured us, and we come out of that wave and, and the joy is there. It can be present. Can it, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: Absolutely. And you know, the Lord is your strength. So many scriptures I will tell you. For a good, almost 20 years, my dad, who had well over $100,000 in medical bills that we were responsible to pay, God helped us do it. Then my mother, and then for eight years, my mother in law lived with us. And it wasn't always easy. emotionally, psychologically, physically. and then my mother and my mother in law, both of whom lived with us, had Alzheimer's. And, there were times as we sat down south, it liked to kill us. But I just remember Angie and I leaned on the Lord and we said, look, it's right to do right. And Jesus, if you'll help us, we're going to get this done. We're going to pay every bill, and we're going to lovingly shepherd our parents into the presence of Christ. And I will tell you, and I'm not patting ourselves on the back, it's right to do right. And we tried to do right. But Bert, when at the end of the day, there's a lot of peace. And it's very gratifying to know for God's glory and with God's help, you did your duty.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Isn't that the opposite?

>> Bert Harper: Duty is a glorious word. Honestly.

Let's pray for Suzanne Dord in Jesus name

well, let's pray for Suzanne. Alex Dord, if I pray.

>> Alex McFarland: Lead us.

>> Bert Harper: Father, I thank you for Suzanne. I thank you for the testimony that she was given about the word of God being powerful, to encourage people, to challenge people. And I pray right now for her, with all the difficulties that she's gone through, that your joy would be real. It is there. But that joy has to come forth out of her. And I pray, Father, through the word of God, through prayer, through service and praise, that that joy would reign. And Father, help her in Jesus name. Amen. Thank you, Suzanne.

James in Mississippi has a question about eternity and hell

Let's go to James in Mississippi. James, go right ahead.

>> Caroline: Yes, I had a question. Not really a prayer request.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, go ahead.

>> Caroline: Yeah, okay. You guys have heard the debate going on online about the eternality of the soul and the, and hell and the whole Kirk Cameron thing. I, I just like, see if y' all weigh on that, weighing on that for a second.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, we, we. It won't take long, but we'll do that. But Alex, again, I, I do not believe that when hell is thrown into the lake of fire, that it ends all the suffering. according to what I see and what I've heard, it, it. Hell is described. You know, hey, that place of torment is described. It's bad. It doesn't describe the lake of fire. I think Kirk Cameron is missed that. But I'll say this about it and I'll throw it to you. He was very gracious in how he said it. He said, I'm still learning. I'm open to evidence that I am wrong about this. And so I don't think it's something. Okay, we got to depart from him. No, I don't feel that way, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: no. well, Revelation 14:11 talks about the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever. And you know, the Bible talks about, you know, where the, the soul doesn't die, the worm doesn't die in Mark 9:48. And I'm just gonna. I do believe that hell is eternal. That's what the Bible says. I don't completely understand it. I believe the soul, the lost soul, doesn't die. It's forever in that torment. And I guess I would quote Jonathan Edwards saying, who said this. Tis dreadful. Tis awful, but tis true. And it's a very sobering thing. I mean, if that, I'm not being flippant or anything, but to ponder eternity and hell, if it puts the fear of God into you, good. It ought to. To cause us to come to Christ, be saved, and then help others get saved. But Bert, as I read God's word, It's terrifying. But it's forever, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It is. Tis true. Tis true. Let me share with you. I saved as a 12 year old boy on a Tuesday night. Guess what? The preacher, brother Richard Clement was preaching hell.

>> Alex McFarland: Really?

>> Bert Harper: Yeah. I needed that. I knew, Jesus is real. I knew it was a Relationship. But I was always putting it off. I say I'll wait a little bit. After that night I said I don't want to wait because I'm not assured of tomorrow. And I praise God for that preacher preaching concerning hell. And did it scare me? Well, yeah, it, I didn't. It scared me enough that I knew what I needed to do and God had already was pulling me and it was what I needed to cross over and come on into Christ. James, hope that helps, brother.

Randy in North Carolina has a granddaughter suffering from leukemia

Let's go to Randy in North Carolina. Randy, go right ahead.

>> Caroline: Hey, thank you, man. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy your commitment, to the word of God. And, and I have a prayer request.

>> Bert Harper: Go ahead, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: Absolutely.

>> Caroline: My my three year old granddaughter since January 6th of this year has been suffering through leukemia. But she's had a. And, and we've had hundreds of Christian, brothers and sisters and churches around the town of Greenville, North Carolina and Farmville, North Carolina praying for us. And she received stem cell transplant and, and is leukemia free.

>> Bert Harper: However.

>> Alex McFarland: Glory.

>> Bert Harper: Go ahead with the rest of it. Go ahead.

>> Caroline: But however she, she has been readmitted to Duke Medical center and we stand in need of prayer because of her immunity system is so low and she's in the intensive care. and, and we need prayer for her lungs and this virus to be removed from. Rebuild her lungs and the virus to be removed from her body.

>> Alex McFarland: What is that little child's name?

>> Caroline: Her name is Ivy Claire Heath.

>> Alex McFarland: let me pray. Tom Fleets away. But Randy, thank you so much. I'm going to lead us, Father. God, in the name of Jesus, we praise you for the good news about Ivy Claire, Lord, but we pray for this young child. Lord, let the leukemia be gone. Let the immunity system be built up. And I pray that this child will grow up healthy and strong, will come to know you at an early age and that her whole life will just be a trophy and a testimony of your power and grace. Lord, bless Randy and his family and in the name of Jesus. We thank you for the help and the restoration and the healing that you are doing in the life of this young girl. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Write that down, Ivy Claire Heath, and let's go to heaven with that Michael in Louisiana. I, see your request. I don't know what the situation is in your family, but right now, Father, I pray for Michael that you would lead him and I pray for a victory in that situation that you would get the glory and honor. You know what it is. And we agree that that is going to be healed. In Jesus name. Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Well, Michael, again, thank you, Randy. Thank you, Alex. I hope everything goes good for you there in Colorado, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: That's right. And folks, I'll be on the Hamilton Corner over an hour from now, so stay tuned to AFR and give God all the praise. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.