Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Bert Harper: the Bible, it's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions. Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, earlier today I was going over a topic for a conference where I'm going to be speaking this summer and, and I was asked to speak on the trustworthiness of the Bible. Is the Bible God's infallible word? And I said, absolutely. And the Bible is still God's word. I think maybe some people need to be re reminded of that, that the Bible is the word of God and it is still relevant and true and binding on all people.

Alex McFarland and Bert Harper discuss Romans in Exploring the Word

Well, Good evening. Alex McFarland here along with Bert Harper. This is Exploring the Word and we are in the New Testament book of Romans. And Bert, I know we started that a short time ago, so we're still in chapter two. It's early in our study of Romans, but I dearly love this book of the Bible and I think it's a vitally important book, don't you?

>> Bert Harper: It is important. And it's our second week we've looked at it and we're as he said in chapter two and you go from one mountaintop to another mountaintop in Romans. And you look for, okay, is there a landed place? And no, Paul still adds on and adds on and all the way through. So the book of Romans is amazing. And in chapter two, verse 17, he is saying to the Jews, you may have the law, but you're not obeying it. And that is the whole idea. Now listen to what they said. Indeed you are called a Jew. Now listen to this next line. I underlined it, Alex, because I think it is something that needs to look at and rest on the law and make your boast in God. Listen, they say, since we have the law, we're privileged. And later on Paul's going to get into it and he's going to say, you may have the law, but you sure are not obeying the law. You're outward, but inwardly there's nothing there. Do you remember the parable that Jesus gave concerning the painted sepulchers? That on the outside they are shiny and they shine out in the sun, but on the inside they're full of dead men's bones. I think that's what Paul is describing here in chapter 2, verses 17 and following in Romans, that's true.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, Jewishness, we could describe it in a number of ways. I mean, it is an ethnicity. There are Jewish people. we could describe it in spiritual terms, the people that follow Judaism. But really biblically, the most Jewish of Jewishness are those that are born again and have put their faith in the Messiah that God sent his son through the nation of Israel. And in Galatians 6, 16, it talks about the Israel of God. You know, Bert, I want to read this. Romans 2, 17 and following. But in a way, it's almost like the person that if you said, hey, are you a Christian? And somebody says, well, I'll have you know, I'm a church member. Well, do you have a relationship with Jesus? Are you a disciple of Jesus Christ? And do you know that you're saved? And somebody might say, well, hey, my family's been members of the church for decades and decades. Well, you know, church membership is a fine thing. being Jewish is a wonderful thing. But being born again through faith in Jesus, that is the key to eternity, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. It is the thing. Now, one more thing about rest. in the book of Hebrews, you get into the rest of God, and it's the rest in Christ Jesus, and their rest is on the law. In other words, we have it. Yes, that satisfies. No, it does not. And let me read this. You said we'd read it. Let me read it, and I'll read a few verses. Indeed, you're called a J. And rest on the law and make your boast in God and know his will. Approve of the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law. And are confident that you are. Now listen to these. You, Ares, you yourself are a guide to the blind. That's one. A light to those who are in darkness. That's the second thing. This is what you say. You are an instructor of the foolish, and then a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. You therefore, who teach another to. Do you. Do you not teach yourself? Listen, Alex, it says, and then he gives a list of stealing. But you steal adultery, but you commit adultery. You abhor, idols, but you rob the temple of God. So, Alex, here it is. He really makes his case here. And again, to me, the biggest, issue here is what he says. You are confident that you. You're a guide to the blind a lot. To those who are in darkness, an instructor, the foolish, a teacher of babes. That's what they thought they were. But in reality, Again, they were full of dead men's bone. They were com. They were teaching one thing and then going ahead and doing those things that says do not do. And Paul lays it on him pretty quickly. And he's building up, I think, to chapter three when he says, now all of you are under sin, but all of you are going to have to be saved the same way. Now I'm foreshadowing what's coming, but he's coming. He paints a picture for the Gentiles in chapter one. He paints this picture for the Jews here that are not obeying and not following God. And he sets them up to say, hey, the only hope we have is not in ourselves, but in Jesus Christ. He is setting the table for that, isn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: He really is. He really is. And 25 through 29 is really important.

Bert says behavior of professed Christians causes blasphemy and reproach

But I want to, for just a moment, let's talk about verse 24. For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. Now, you made this list and it was great. You did a great job walking through that about how they, they are confident that they are a guide to the blind, a light to those in darkness. But then they preach one thing and they do another. You teach that you should not steal, but do you steal? thou sayest a man should not commit adultery, but do you commit adultery? Bert, when I was in college in the late 80s, there were some pretty high profile ministers that fell into immorality. And I remember, oh my goodness, a lot of the students at school really, got very bold in the way they were mocking Christians and Christianity. And even some of my professors and some people might remember, you know, in the late 80s, the scandals that rocked the evangelical world. And I mean, it just became open fodder to mock not only Christianity, but even Jesus Christ. And there were, I'm not going to even name the names, but there were some art pieces that were not art at all that were just incredibly, incredibly, brazenly blasphemous. And in verse 24, you know, Paul is talking about how these very, very religious Jews do things that are sinful. And it says, the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you. Bert very often is sad because Jesus is still Jesus. Jesus is risen. Irrespective of what a fallen world does, Jesus Christ is still king of kings. But isn't it sad when the behavior of professed believers causes blasphemy and reproach? To be brought on the Savior.

>> Bert Harper: It is, Alex. And again, in the new King James, it says, through you, among the Gentiles, through you, it's because of you that through us, because of you, you are causing this. In other words. Now, I think it goes back to the things he's talked about here. And it says, you steal, you commit adultery, you're robbing. And. And here they teach, but they're. Who are they doing this to? Who are they robbing? Probably the Gentiles. Who. Who are. Who are they committing adultery with or front of possibly these Gentiles. So the Gentiles see this hypocrisy. I just want to tell you. Hypocrisy is one of those things that others can see. And it, really does cause this blaspheming the name of God. You say one thing, you do another. Your walk in your talk. So, Alex, let me ask you this. In 2025, for those of us who are believers, do our talk and our walk need to be in, accordance with one another? Does it need to be, It needs to be like an army or a band, when they marching, they're marching. Coordinated our coordination be our walk and our talk, shouldn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Absolutely, absolutely. And I mean, the reality is that the truth of Jesus is in no way contingent on the behavior of Christians. However, the watching world very, very much forms their opinion. By the way we model or honor God or dishonor God in our behavior. So, yes, in that sense, we are our brother's keeper in that if we name the name of Christ, we are to put forth a positive God, honoring witness. And, you know, Bert, and I want to get to 25 through 29, but it talks about. And I think it's in Titus. I'll have to look it up. But it says that we are to adorn the gospel of our God and the way we live, the way we act, we're to be showing the world that this is real and that the Lord Jesus is the absolute priority in all of our lives. If we say we're a Christian, we should show that Jesus is the priority.

Bert says circumcision profitably profiteth if you keep the Law

But, the word circumcision is used in the following verses. And Bert, really, it's speaking of the covenant, the Abrahamic covenant, really, that the males would be circumcised and. And that, they were children of the covenant, that they believed in the Messiah that would come. And so he says, for circumcision verily profiteth if you keep the Law. But if you break the law, the circumcision is made uncircumcision. So, in other words, you're righteous apart from the Savior if you perfectly keep the covenantal law in every aspect. But if you sin, you're not part of the covenant, you're uncircumcised. And let me say to a pious Jew, to say that you were uncircumcised, that's like one of the Philistines. I mean, that was, not a compliment at all. But what Paul is saying here really, is that. And 28 and 29, we really want to focus on. But salvation is not by works. And Paul is essentially saying, because you haven't really worked anyway.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Notice 26 says, Therefore you're going to get. If that is true, therefore this is true. And it says, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? You see that. In other words, it's, it's, it's saying. It is that covenant relationship, Alex, of obeying him. And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you, who, even with your written code and circumcision, or transgressor of the law. And he, he stacks that with him. And their fault of not doing what they know they should do, they're trying to skirt the law, they're trying to defend their actions, even using the law. And he says, no, that is in no way. But those people who know in their heart, we go back to their conscience and we talked about that, verse 14. For when Gentiles who do not have the law by nature do the things contained in the law, those, although not having the law, are a law to themselves. Here again, he's bringing that into them. That it's not just an outward circumcision. It's not just the outward appearance and teaching of I don't do this, I don't do that. It is a covenant relationship with God that changes you inwardly and brings the outside working outwardly in our lives. That's true. Then it is true tonight, today. Well, Alex, we're coming up and we'll get to that. Verses 28 and 29, that I agree with you. chapter two. I think it ends in a climax, doesn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: It really does. It really does. This is exploring the word. Bert and Alex, so honored that you're listening. We've got a brief break. We'll continue in Romans plus your phone calls and questions later on in the show. Stay with us. We've got a brief break and then we'll be back.

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Bert and Alex welcome you back to Exploring the Word

Well, welcome back to Exploring the Word. Bert and Alex here, and we want you to join us in Bible study. We do this Monday through Friday. On Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday along with Monday, we study a book. This time we're studying Romans and, and then on Friday we take questions and we do our best to give biblical godly answers. And that's what we do here. It kind of sets exploring the word apart from a lot of things. Like Alex has said many times, if you ever sat in a class and wanted to hold up your hand and ask a question, well, we do this at the end of each, day of teaching. And we have people that are, that are ready to ask questions. On Tuesdays, we put prayer as a priority. That doesn't mean we don't take questions, but it does mean that if people call in on Tuesday and they have a prayer request, it will supersede the questions. And normally we take things, in turn as they come about. But sometimes, we, we, on Tuesdays, we make prayer a priority. Alex, let me just say that's been a very well received change in our format. Tuesday, prayer time, we've heard so many people appreciate that. People call in and ask. And one of the things we love to do is hear people call in and say, listen, you prayed for me last Tuesday. I want to tell you what happened. God did this. we love praises, to God as well, don't we?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, amen. Amen. Because God is so faithful. And, we. We don't mind the prayer requests, but we rejoice when we hear the praises. And by the way, we are in Romans chapter two. We're wrapping up Romans two. And, later on in the show, I'm going to give the number because we'll take phone calls in the third segment. The number. If you want to get ready and get in the queue with your question, it's going to be 888-589-8840. But, Bert, Paul is, making the case that, look, religion is not what saves. And you might be, the most faithful outward keeper, of Jewish ritual, but what's about the state of your heart? And he says, look, if you say it but don't live it, you're a lawbreaker, and you're not circumcised. and then he goes, in verse 27, shall not uncircumcision, which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee who by the letter, and circumcision does transgress the law. Now, I think about this, talking about, the gentiles blaspheming God. And when those that are not part of the covenant appear more, righteous than those who claim to keep the covenant. Do you remember back in Genesis 12, I think about, Genesis 12, really 11 and 12. And following Abraham had Sarah go into the Pharaoh's harem and lie about it. And then you get down there in, like, verse 18 of Genesis 12, Pharaoh says, what have you done? You've caused these plagues to fall on me. Why did you lie? And why didn't you tell me that Sarah was your wife? I mean, it's, you know, a, heathen is more concerned about being right before God than Abraham was at that moment. And that's kind of what Paul is saying here. Let me read 28 and 29 gets down to the bottom of reality versus religion and ritual. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly. Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly. And circumcision is that of the heart and in spirit and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God. Bert. Salvation. And there's some words the Bible uses, regeneration, redemption, conversion, the new birth. It is by faith, not works. And Bert, there are people that outwardly don't look saved, that can be saved. And there are people that outwardly do look very upright and moral that in their heart they're not saved. It's the matter of the heart. And the heart is made right with God through faith in Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: These words that Paul uses inwardly, what are you? Inwardly, God looks upon the heart. When he was even selecting David to be the next king rather than Jesse's other sons, that outwardly they stood tall and they were good looking, they had everything going for them. And David was out keeping the sheep, you know, and Samuel said, do you not have another one? I know God has sent me here to, to crown the next king, but none of these guys are here. And Jesse finally says, yeah, I've got somebody out there, Go, go get David. And when David comes in, Jesse recognizes that and, and he says, God does not look on the outward. He looks at the inward and hears that word, the other one that I wanted to say in the Spirit and not in the letter. Paul would later write, the Spirit gives life, the letter killeth. Listen, you will never find redemption in the letter of the law, regardless of how close you come. He's going to get to this. In Romans 3:23, when he says all come short, you can get as close as you do. I use this as an illustration, Alex. If you needed to jump a, ah, ten foot chasm to get from one cliff to another cliff, and you made it at 9ft and 11 inches, how far would you fall?

>> Alex McFarland: You'd still fall the same distance whether you missed it by 1 inch or 10ft. If you've missed it, you've missed it.

>> Bert Harper: And that's exactly what he is referring to here. No one measures up in the letter of the law. And that's why it's an inward in that you've already used those words, redemption, regeneration. God does that in us and he's going to get to it later on. He's doing it by, by grace, through faith, and it's not the outward. So here it is.

Bertram: True Christians love the Jewish people, Alex

With all that in mind, he comes to chapter three. Now you got to remember in the letter that Paul wrote to the Romans, they were not divided up into chapters and verses the way this is. But I guarantee you when he got to this question that we see in chapter three, verse one, he kind of said, okay, what is this? He says, what advantage then has the Jew? Or what is the profit of circumcision? Now, Alex, these Jews thought this was everything. They had a corner on the market, did they not? They thought they did.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, exactly. And let's talk about the word in the King James. It's translated advantage. It really, believe it or not, means superiority. what advantage then hath the Jew? Or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way. Chiefly because unto them were committed the oracles of God. You know, Bert, I was sharing the gospel with a Jewish person. And, we got very open and honest, and, you know, based on some of the, rhetoric that came out of The Protestant Reformation 500 years ago, the person was kind of beating around the bush. And, I said, ask me your question. And this Jewish person, it really moved my heart. Said, do Christians hate Jews? I said, absolutely not. Oh, my goodness. True born again believers love the Jewish people, and we recognize we're indebted to the Jewish people. And, antisemitism is such a terrible, terrible thing. And I kind of jokingly, but not so jokingly, I said, look, true Christians love the Jews. I said, if I were Jewish, I would put it on my resume. Because, let's be honest, they are God's chosen people. Not in the sense that they're automatically saved. Everybody has to be born again. But like Paul says, unto the Jews were entrusted the oracles of God. And I just want to say this, and you can elaborate any way you feel led. the Jewish people are very special. The Jewish people are beloved by God. And, every human on the planet is indebted to the nation of Israel. Aren't they, Bertram?

>> Bert Harper: They really are, Alex. And in our day of antisemitism, this needs to be said. I appreciate you taking time out of this teaching to share that and how truthful that is. And, so here it is. The Jews have this. That is given to them. Let me just say it in my. They were to be missionaries. Okay?

>> Alex McFarland: True.

>> Bert Harper: The Jewish people, they were not to keep that to themselves. They were to demonstrate that. And I've used this. I know I'm repeating myself again, but I love geography. So I look at the land that God gave them, right there at the center of the known world. Asia, Europe, Africa.

>> Alex McFarland: Correct.

>> Bert Harper: Right where they were. And they gave them all these laws. And what you see here in chapter two, when it says stealing and robbing and adultery, when people came through there in place of them blaspheming God because the Jews were not treating them Right. They should go away saying, what kind of people are these? That they treat us fairly, that they treat us the way that we would want to be treated because they care for us. That's what they were to do with the oracles that God had given them. The same thing is true with us today. We who have given much to have much responsibility, we've been given grace, we've been saved as followers of Jesus Christ. And we're to demonstrate that to the world. We're to speak the truth, but we're to speak it in love.

Bertrand Russell: Romans 3 raises several questions about faithfulness

And so, Alex, it is so beautiful here. Verse 3. For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Now, man, what a question. And what you find in chapter three is a series of questions. By the way, there's at least six questions asked here. But in the first few verses, there's three, questions that are asked. And here's the second one. What if some did not believe? And this is tied into it. Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Now, Alex, new King James says in verse four, certainly not. Indeed. Let God be true, but every man a liar. Now, Alex, listen. No, God is faithful. God is who he is, regardless of what we do in our relationship with Him.

>> Alex McFarland: M. Amen. Amen. Yes. if people don't believe, and if, the Jewish nation rejected their Savior, that does not diminish the messiahship of Jesus. He is the. The Savior. He is God incarnate, regardless of whether people, believed or obeyed or didn't. And verse four, and by the way, this is a quote from job 40. it says that God might be justified in his sayings and might overcome. And, man might overcome when he is judged. In other words, if he is saved, if he will be born again. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who takes vengeance? I speak as a man. God forbid. For then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I, also judged as a sinner? let me comment on this, Bert. Human sin is voluminous, almost limitless. It's not completely limitless because the human race is not unlimited. Even though billions of humans have lived, the number of humans is still a finite number. And the grace of God and his capacity to forgive is limitless. You know, Bert, did you ever hear that old song, Wonderful grace of Jesus reaching the most defiled.

>> Bert Harper: I do. I hadn't thought of that in ages. Thank you, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: And I've shared this before. A, ah, college student asked me one time, how could one man die for the sin of the world? And, you know, I was standing there praying, saying, lord, give me wisdom. How to answer this question. Said, you know, there are billions of humans, 8.8 billion humans now thereabouts, and maybe 40, 50 billion that have ever lived. How could one person die for the sin of the world? And I think that, the Holy Spirit gave me the right answer because I said, well, human sin, lies, murder, stealing. I mean, human sin is big, it's bad, but it's not infinite because there have not been an infinite number of humans. There's a finite number of humans. So human iniquity is finite. Now, the righteousness, the holiness of Jesus is infinite. so a man of infinite righteousness, Jesus, could atone for a finite amount of unrighteousness.

>> Bert Harper: That's amazing, Alex, when you hear that, is it tied into Adam? In Adam, we all sin.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. In Adam, we have all sinned. And, and in Adam, we all die. But in the second Adam, Jesus, all who put their faith in Jesus will be made alive. And so, Romans 3, 5, 8, is really, it's kind of complicated. But here's the thing. God, in taking on our sin, it doesn't make God unrighteous. the wrath was deflected from us onto Christ. But now, if you're not in Christ, if you're in sin, the wrath of God abides on you. But by putting your trust in Jesus, who suffered in our stead, we are made righteous. And, our sin is atoned for. I know that's kind of deep to think about, but that's the argument Paul is setting forth here.

>> Bert Harper: But that's what he does in Romans. It's not for the faint of heart too much. You got to stay with what was said before. And sometimes what comes after helps to explain that. That you just did. Now listen to verse nine. Then, because of all of that you just said, what then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are under sin. Now, where did he previously charge that? Chapters one and chapters two and even above that. But the case he's making, and this is why Romans is so, anal. It's, it's just progressive and, and I don't mean liberal, but I'm talking about progressive in revealing this Then he goes to this. And it helps you understand what you've just read. And what you're reading is going to help you understand what's above. So here it is again. I read it. Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have, privileges charged. Both Jews and Greeks are under sin. But he's going to get to the salvation that's both for Jew and Greek. Hey, let's take phone calls in the next segment. And that number is 888-589-8840.

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Bert says Romans 2 and 3 talk about salvation

>> Alex McFarland: When the thief takes. When our hopes gave.

>> Bert Harper: You build us back. You build us back.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, In Romans, 2 and 3, here we were talking about salvation. And, maybe you've heard that saying, and it's not just a saying. There's profound truth in it. Jesus paid a debt he didn't owe because we owed a debt we couldn't pay. It's because he loves you. The number. If you've got a Bible question, we would love to hear from you. The number is 8885-8988-4088-5889-8840. And, Bert, isn't it a blessing that we can say with complete truthfulness? God loves you. To everybody listening, please know that the Lord loves you so much, and Jesus is as close by as a prayer.

>> Bert Harper: Alex, when you say that, it is so true. And I don't think people understand the love of God. in the church where I'm. Interim Ozark Baptist Church, not this Sunday, but Sunday before last, we sang the love of God. Do you remember that line? And I tried. I can't remember it all. Knowing your memory, you can probably get it, but if every stalk was a pen and every person was a scribe and the oceans was the ink, if we started writing about the love of God and it would drain. Drain the oceans dry. Now, it's more poetic than I just said it, but how true that is. Alex. That's the love of God, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen and, we're blessed. We don't deserve it, and yet he loves us. That's his grace.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: well, listen, read on ahead because we're going to, do more of Romans 3 tomorrow. What impresses me in nine and following, when Paul is talking about everybody is under sin and needs salvation, and he quotes lots and lots of verses, he makes his case, but he backs it up scripturally, doesn't he?

>> Bert Harper: He does. And you'll find every bit of us in mind, will in our heart, we're sinners. In our speech, the way we walk, our mind, the way we think, the pride that we have, we are sinners. When you get through with chapters one, two and three, if you're not convinced you're a sinner, you've got a pride issue. We're sinners. Praise God. Alex, you and I and our team here, we've been sinners, saved by grace, which made us saints to walk in the heavenly. So we want to do that.

What does the Bible say about women preaching and women deacons

Well, let's go to the phone lines. We have Tina from Texas. Tina, thank you for calling today.

>> Alex McFarland: Hi. I just love you guys.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you so much for what you do. my question is, what does the Bible say? I know you've probably talked about this a million times before, but I want to ask it again. What does the Bible say about women preaching and women deacons? Okay. Okay, Tina, thank you so much. This is one of those issues that when we here on afr, we have a wide audience, and we know that, but Alex and I have come down looking at the scriptures. We believe the pastor, the woman, the lead pastor, when you look at Romans, Timothy, when you look at Titus, when you look at examples, it's a male. Now, what you mean by preachers and teachers, and I would say even deacons, that. What is the word deacon? it's a transliteration of the Greek word, but in the language, it really means a servant, doesn't it, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: It really does. Ah. It really means a servant. Let me say that, the New Testament, and this is under the heading of ecclesiology, the ecclesia, the church. And ecclesiology is how we do church. And now it is possible to be in agreement on soteriology, salvation, and have differing opinions on ecclesiology. And I'm just going to say this, I don't mean to offend anybody, but new, Testament wise, early church history, and really up until the 20th century, the pastor was male, always. And Bert, I think that's how it should be. Because the New Testament says that the pastor is the husband of one wife. And, there's no female that could be the husband of one wife. Well, along in the latter 20th century comes the feminist movement and a lot of revisionism. And the view of males and females throughout church history was one that was called complementarianism. Men and women are complementary, equal in worth and value and personhood, but unique in calling and function. Now, Bert, what we've seen, really, for the last 50 years is a view called egalitarianism, that men and women are to be viewed as equal. I mean, but that's been taken so far now that some say they don't even know what a woman is. And really, men and women's sports and transgenderism, they've just tried to eradicate the boundaries of reality that God made. Now, Bert, I know great brothers and sisters that disagree with me on this, but I believe biblically and really historically, the role of senior pastor was always male.

>> Bert Harper: It is. When we get to the end of Romans, we'll find a woman called Chloe. you know, isn't that her name? I may have missed that. I, was trying to remember, but, she carries the letter Phoebe. I don't know why I said Chloe. Phoebe. Phoebe. I got mixed up. And she is our sister. And notice who is a servant. Chapter 16, verse 1. Who is a servant in the church of, Syncrache. Now, honestly, the word servant, dikonos is the word in the Greek. Now, again, the deacon servant is not necessarily one that's set aside for ordaining. Now, it seems like the word elders are. And, they. They tended to be men. As I look at it, they weren't all m. Men.

Can you call females ministers? That was the question. I answered it and say

But we had another question, and I'm going to take time to. I answered it and say, what about the term minister? Now, Alex, if you're going to minister, that means you're in the ministry.

>> Bert Harper: You know, can you call females ministers? That was the question. I.

>> Alex McFarland: Listen, I would say yes.

>> Bert Harper: I did, too. That was my answer. It was yes, because a minister is ministering to others. And, so. And also names. You can come up with names. But the lead pastor, again, when you look at the New Testament, again, we. It's. That's the idea of. Of church. How church operates. male. I know there are some that are female. And again, listen, I would stick to the New Testament. I think that's the wise way to go, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: and let me say, I came up under a man named Dr. Norm Geisler. And if ever there was a conservatives conservative, Dr. Geisler was real, real, real conservative. And yet Norm Geisler, he has a great teaching on women in ministry and women ministers, because really the word ministry is from, two words really. To administer something. In other words, to carry something out. Like, in Luke, chapter one, it talks about, Zacharias and his ministration, his ministry. And it's really akin to the word administration, which can be organization, planning, carrying something out. Now, here's the thing. Even Dr. Geisler said, and John MacArthur has said this as well, and I mention him because he's a respected teacher and quite conservative. women in ministry. Absolutely. and Bert, I've even some of my brethren have looked askance at me. I've had women speak in our conferences and on Sunday mornings. and Dr. Geisler defined it this way, and I know we need to move on, but Paul said that he did not permit a woman to usurp authority over a man in the church, but as different ones. Geisler. Jerry Falwell believed this too, because he would have, like on Sunday morning at Thomas Road Baptist, he would have, women speakers in to give the Sunday morning message. like, Phyllis Schlafly. You remember the great Pro Life League Eagle forum.

>> Bert Harper: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: But here's the thing. The pastor still is the under shepherd in authority, and the woman has not usurped authority. And I realize it's a little bit volatile to even talk about such things nowadays, but I think we can do this. And we're trying to be factual, biblical and respectful. So, there's a plethora, unlimited, nearly unlimited ways that women are in ministry. But. And it's God's church. He bought it with his own blood. the role of senior pastor is male.

>> Bert Harper: Amen, Tina. We hope that helps. I know we took a long time doing that because we've had several emails on it, text on that. And so we took time. Maybe everybody that's emailed has heard that and we can do it. Hey, we've got room for another call if you Want to call. Triple 858-98840. Let's stay in Texas and talk to Luke. Luke, thank you for calling.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes, sir. Thank you.

Luke: God redefines himself as masculine. Alex: God is neither male nor female

Good afternoon. I got a question. It might be, along the same lines that, yesterday with our Mother's Day service, the pastor said, you know, he just wanted to inform everyone that some women take offense that were in the Bible, refers to God in masculine terms as he. So he said women, you do not take offense to that. That was only the Jewish custom at that time. God is a spirit who is neither male nor female. And, anyway, that's my question about that. He, you know, he just said God, the spirit. He's either male nor female. So women don't need to take offense as the way it's worded.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, Luke, let me just say I think it's more than just the way the Hebrew would define God. I mean, God redefines himself as masculine. But Alex, he talks about caring for us as a nursing mother. You know, that's the whole idea. So neither male nor female. He is a spirit, but when God gave his son, it was. He was male to, you know. And so I. I think it's stronger, a little stronger than Luke's pastor said. I think it's God referring to himself is in the masculine form. What would you say?

>> Alex McFarland: you know, scholars use a, term, they'll say that God is a generative spirit. In other words, generates. What has God generated? well, all of creation, the universe, the human race. And I want to say this, C.S. lewis, even, and this is 60 years ago, C.S. lewis said that gender goes far deeper than people acknowledge or realize anymore. And we're to the point now that, you know, the lost world is very dismissive of gender. And they said that maleness and femaleness are not objective categories, but they really are. Now God has revealed himself in masculine terms. Now there are nurturing, like Jesus said, Israel, how often would I have gathered you to myself as a mother hen gathers her chicks? You know, Bert, it's been said that male and female were created because it took two genders to fully express the attributes of God. And I would say the complete attributes of God aren't even fully expressed in male and female humans because we might have love, but God is love. We might have some strength, but God is omnipotent. However, I've got to kind of be, clear that, yes, the Bible says God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. But God sent his son. God has revealed himself as male. And I think we have to trust that God understands his own identity. So I disagree with the progressives that would say, well, you know, God isn't male, or female. God isn't male in terms of a human being male, but he's revealed himself consistently and only in masculine terms.

>> Bert Harper: That is so true, Luke. We hope that helps. And, thank you for that. Good question on this day. Appreciate it.

Any biblical support for people in heaven being able to see us on earth

One More question for the day, and it's Mike in Oklahoma. Mike, thank you for calling. Thank you. Enjoyed your show. I've got a question, is there.

>> Alex McFarland: Any biblical support for people that's passed on, in heaven been able to see us, see what's going on on earth? It doesn't make sense to me.

>> Bert Harper: I've heard people talk about that, pastors.

>> Alex McFarland: Talk about that, that, if that's.

>> Bert Harper: The case, it'd be terrible to see.

>> Alex McFarland: Your daughter in a car wreck or being abused. That's my question.

>> Bert Harper: Okay. Seeing that we're surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, Alex, is it talking about those witnesses from heaven or the witness of those people that we've just studied about in the scripture, or is there a disagreement on that?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, Hebrews 12:1 refers to the great cloud of witnesses. And really there are only two verses. I think, if it could be construed that people in heaven can see what's going on on earth, they'll say, this great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight. Bert, I truly think that Hebrews 12:1 is referring to all the people in Hebrews 11 I do, too. The Great Faith hall of Fame. But then, Paul says we must all appear before the bema seat, the judgment seat, to be rewarded. Okay? Everything we do post salvation for Jesus, we're going to get crowns in heaven. And I've heard preachers say, well, see, when you run a race, people are in the grandstands cheering you on. And when people leave this world, they take their place in the grandstands of heaven. Bert, I'm not sure that that really means. I mean, the fact that Paul uses athletic imagery and talks about the bema seat, I don't know that that means that the occupants of heaven are in the grandstands watching, life on earth. I truly think that, you know, they use the term, the beatific vision. what we're going to be doing in heaven is looking in wonder and worship at Jesus our Savior. I just don't know that there's biblical support that people in heaven can see what's going on here on earth. But, feel free to just.

>> Bert Harper: I agree with you. The only thing I would add to that, it says the angels in heaven praise God and glorify God when one sinners come home. I think those other people say, they're going to wonder who the angels are thinking. Now. That doesn't mean that they know what's going on, but I do believe they know when a sinner has come to Christ, you know, because of that.

>> Alex McFarland: That's good observation.

Tomorrow is a day of prayer, so we want to hear from you

>> Bert Harper: Okay, Alex, it's been great to be with you. Let's start again in Romans, chapter three, tomorrow. And, it's a day of prayer, so we want to hear from you. Thank you for listening to Exploring the Word. Tell someone about the program, but more importantly, tell them about Jesus. The views and opinions expressed in this.

>> Alex McFarland: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of.

>> Bert Harper: The American Family association or American Family Radio. M.