Rob West: "Be strong and courageous," the Lord told Joshua. "For the Lord, your God, is with you wherever you go." Hi, I'm Rob West. Biblical courage is not bravado or self-confidence; it's faithfulness rooted in God's presence and promises. And when it comes to money, we often need that courage to give, to resist pressure, and to obey God even when it costs us. Today, Dr. Craig Bartholomew joins us to talk about the virtue of fortitude, and then we'll take your phone calls on any financial question at 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio—biblical wisdom for your financial journey.

Well, we're concluding our series on the cardinal virtues and how Christian character shapes the way we handle money. We've talked about prudence, temperance, and justice. Today, we turn to fortitude, or courage. Our guest today is Dr. Craig Bartholomew, director of the Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology in Cambridge, England, and a leading theologian who has authored numerous books and commentaries, including one of my favorites on the Book of Ecclesiastes. Dr. Bartholomew, what a treat to have you here. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Oh, it's my pleasure.

Rob West: Dr. Bartholomew, when many people hear the word "courage," they may think of dramatic acts of bravery, but in the Christian tradition, fortitude is often broader and deeper than that. How do you define fortitude?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Uh yeah, so this is an excellent question. I mean, I do think courage, or fortitude, does include dramatic acts, so that's one thing just to say—that often in our lives, there are crisis points where real courage is required.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: And so, you quoted from, you know, God spe- speaking to Joshua. And of course, conquering the land was a critical moment, and that required real courage and fortitude. So, it does include those dramatic moments, but fortitude is about resilience. It's about resolve—enduring resolve. Uh, it's about grit and endurance. And I think one way to get at this is that the Christian life is not a sprint; it's much more like a marathon. And I think one of the quotes that I love that helps us to get at this is Eugene Peterson quotes the philosopher Nietzsche, most remarkably: that the long obedience in the same direction always produces great things. And I think fortitude is a lovely word which gets at that sustained following of Jesus over a lifetime.

Rob West: Yes. Wow, I love that. It's this idea of faithfulness to our Lord. As you know, Dr. Bartholomew, our focus here on this program is around money and how we can be wise stewards of everything that belongs to God, yet entrusted to our care. Money often exposes our fears: the fear of not having enough, the fear of the future, the fear of lose- losing the fear of losing status, the fear of disappointing others. How does fortitude help us face those fears honestly, without being ruled by them?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Yeah, so this is an excellent question, and it's very interesting to be conscious of what we fear. And I think money and fear will be very closely related only if we have made the very modern, Western mistake of locating our security, our identity, our sense of self-worth in wealth.

Rob West: Mm, yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: So, I mean, if your identity is tied up with how wealthy you are, if your security and your sense of well-being is entirely dependent on wealth, then anything that endangers that or looks like threatening that will result in tremendous anxiety and fear. And so, the way to escape this is to make sure that one's sense of security, one's sense of identity, one's sense of personhood is located in God, and not in money or wealth. But if you locate it, you know, which many, many people do today—I mean, this is the pervasive sort of disease of the West, that my whole being is tied up with how much wealth I have—

Rob West: That is so rich. We're talking today about fortitude. Fortitude is not about being fearless, but faithful—anchored in God's story and strengthened by His promises. More with Dr. Craig Bartholomew, director of the Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology in Cambridge, England, right after this break. We'll talk generosity, we'll talk integrity, and where this shows up in your financial life. We'll be right back.

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Rob West: Well, we've been in a wonderful series here on the cardinal virtues and how Christian character shapes the way we handle money. Today, our final of the virtues, we're talking fortitude, or courage. With us today is Dr. Craig Bartholomew. Dr. Bartholomew is the director of the Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology in Cambridge, England. He's a leading theologian, he's written numerous books and commentaries, including one of my favorites on Ecclesiastes. We're so delighted to have him with us today. Uh, we've been talking about fortitude, Dr. Bartholomew, and you know what? We don't have to go any further than Jesus to see perfect courage embodied, not merely in facing physical danger, but in that faithful obedience to the Father that you described in the previous segment. Isn't that right?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Uh yes, absolutely. And I mean, it struck me that this is characteristic of Jesus' whole life, but especially His three years of public ministry.

Rob West: Mm.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: And I think most of our listeners will recall that at the start of His public ministry, He goes out into the wilderness, and there He is tempted three times by Satan. Now, of course, all those temptations are very interesting, but at the heart of them is the temptation not to go the route of the cross. And part of that is to be offered all the wealth that the world can offer, but not to go the route of the cross. And what Jesus does in resisting those temptations is to discern the call that is upon His life, and then to pursue that call with resilience and fortitude.

Rob West: Mm.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: So, fortitude is at the heart of Jesus' life, and it should be at the heart of the life of His followers.

Rob West: Mm, yes. And yet, what we see in Scripture, Dr. Bartholomew, is that money can be one of those chief idols that competes with devotion to our Lord. Uh, you know, we see in the parable of the sower the deceitfulness of riches, among other things, is what choked out the Word. So, money is a good gift from a good God, but it can rival our hearts if it doesn't sit in its proper place. Isn't that right?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Uh yes, uh 100%. And the temptation, one of the temptations from Satan is, "Look, I can offer you all the kingdoms of the earth. So, I can offer you power, I can offer you, you know, wealth that you've never dreamed of, but don't go the route of the cross." So, money is a creational good, uh but has to be in the right place. And when it gets uh out of the right place and becomes an idol, then one is in deep trouble.

Rob West: Yes. Uh, on the other hand, when we hold it loosely and give it generously, it can in some ways loosen the grip that money can have over us, and it does require fortitude. You know, sometimes giving requires courage because it confronts our desire for security or control that you spoke of. How does fortitude shape a generous life?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Uh well, I think uh fortitude shapes a generous life in that generosity is not concerned so much about myself as about others, and especially others who are less fortunate than myself.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: So, uh you know, the danger with the cultures in which we live is not only is it all about wealth, but it's all about me.

Rob West: Mm.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: And when we follow Christ, that sort of self-centeredness becomes decentered. And then we are able to put God first, and then once we put God first, then God calls us to care for our neighbor.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: And so, it becomes a very poignant question in the modern world: Who is our neighbor? And often, our neighbor may be the person living just down the road, but it may also be people in other countries who are deeply, deeply impoverished. And so, generosity is the removal of making everything about me and making it about God, and once we do that, then God directs us to care for our neighbor, and that's where generosity arises.

Rob West: Mm. And as Jesus said, "It is better to give than to receive." There's something that happens inside of us as we have the ability to participate in God's redemptive purposes in the world through our giving. What a privilege that is, and I find that joy often follows. Uh, Dr. Bartholomew, let's talk about honesty and integrity. This is another place where this shows up. You know, it can take courage to tell the truth, or refuse compromise, or do the right thing when it might cost us financially. Uh, so how does fortitude strengthen us in those moments?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Well, fortitude is the commitment to following Christ with resilience and endurance. And so, I think there are some questions that need to be addressed if we're to really see what fortitude involves. So, you know, we have to ask ourselves: What kind of culture do we live in? Uh, how does the economy function in this culture? And we have to do some very hard thinking about that, uh so that we can work out where the idols lie and where legitimate economic activity lies. And of course, the economies of our cultures are littered with idols in the West.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: So, if you think, for example, of America today, many people would argue, for example, that corruption extends to the highest levels of the country. And when money and wealth are connected with power, it's very easy just to go along with it, or to try and baptize it in the name of Christ. Uh, and this is where I think discernment is required, and then once one is able to discern what is good and what is bad, then it requires enormous courage to follow the right way and to say no to corruption and dishonesty and injustice.

Rob West: Mm, that is well said. We've got about 90 seconds left. Uh, I would love for you to finish our time together by talking about how we can cultivate fortitude without becoming self-reliant. What keeps Christian courage, Dr. Bartholomew, rooted in prayer, and humility, and community, and trust in God's promises?

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: Yeah, so this is a very good question, and I think I will just try and be as brief as I can. Uh, one thing is that fortitude needs to characterize us as individuals, but always in community.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: So, you know, one can be very resilient about the wrong things. So, we need community to help us to have fortitude and be resilient about the right things. And then I would say that means we need wisdom.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: I mean, finance is a very complex thing.

Rob West: Yes.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: And we need uh insight into where the idols lie and and what's good investing, what's bad investing, and so on and so forth. And so, community, wisdom, discernment I think are really critical in this regard so that when we commit ourselves to resilience and endurance, we really are following Jesus and and not following something else.

Rob West: Yes. Well, what a treat today to have you here. This was such a rich conversation and an incredible way to close out our series on the cardinal virtues. Dr. Bartholomew, thanks for your time, sir.

Dr. Craig Bartholomew: That's a pleasure.

Rob West: Our guest today has been Dr. Craig Bartholomew, director of the Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology in Cambridge, England, author of numerous books, including one of my favorites on Ecclesiastes. If you'd like to check out the entire series, just go to faithfi.com/show. We'll be back with your questions after this break, so call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or, if you'd prefer to email your question, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.

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Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Really looking forward to taking your calls and questions today. That number to get in on the conversation is 800-525-7000. We've got lines open. Patty's taking your calls today. Only thing remaining is your phone call. Again, that number: 800-525-7000, as we tackle any financial question you may be facing, whether it's debt repayment, maybe it's investing for the future. As we start the trading day in the markets, we see the Dow rising on strong earnings, up 400 points. The Nasdaq selling off today, the S&P 500 down modestly. We're still waiting for where we might go next with oil and the conflict in the Middle East. Still reports that the pause button has been pushed between the fighting, and hoping that we come back to the negotiating table. We'll certainly keep an eye on that. In the meantime, the Dow Jones 30 is liking what it's seeing as more strong earnings are the order of the day.

But whether it's investing, or debt repayment, or giving, whatever you're wrestling with today, call right now. Again, that number is 800-525-7000. We're going to dive in here in just a moment. So thrilled to have Dr. Bartholomew with us today. This has been just really a fabulous series on the cardinal virtues. And by the way, if you'd like to check out each installment in this series, just head to our website at faithfi.com. I think you'll enjoy what you hear there as you move through each of these virtues. It's been a lot of fun to unpack that with some just brilliant and wonderful theologians and pastors helping us unpack these important ideas.

All right, let me dive into the phones today. We're going to begin in Pennsylvania. Mary, how can we help you?

Mary: Rob, can you hear me all right?

Rob West: Yes, ma'am.

Mary: Great. Thank you for taking my call. About three—three or four years ago, I inherited about $100—$200,000 in stock. I wound up borrowing 150,000 of it on collateral, so they hold my stock and, you know, lent me the money for some unfortunate things that I needed it for. I was waiting for an auto accident payment, which never happened, so I have to pay this money back. My question to you is: Should I pay this—sell the stock to pay it off in one lump, or maybe within two events, since I'm concerned about the tax bracket that I may go into? And I don't know much about how that would work, but you hear that if you get into this higher bracket, you owe a higher amount. So, selling this stock to pay off my debt scares me, which I know I need to do, because of the way it'll create a higher tax bracket. I—I receive from disability about 20,000 a year, and my husband, from earned income, makes about 70,000 a year. And a lot of this stock happens to be in oil. So, I don't know if, you know, I should do it all at once and just pay the tax when I get it. I don't have—I have no idea if this will be a tax of, you know, 5,000 or 20,000. So, I'd love your—your advice.

Rob West: Yeah, I'd be happy to weigh in, absolutely. When did you inherit this, Mary?

Mary: I want to say about four—maybe closer to five years at this point.

Rob West: Okay. Do you know how much appreciation has occurred since you inherited it?

Mary: In total, you mean?

Rob West: Yeah, the—the total investment that you got, what did you receive four years ago, and what is it worth today?

Mary: I think I've made—I don't know exactly, but I know—I think I've made a good amount, like maybe $50,000 on that since I got—since I got it, since I inherited it.

Rob West: Okay. Yeah, got it. Yeah, so, you know, basically, if you had an inherited value of about 150 and it's currently sitting at around, you know, 200,000, you've got a gain of 50,000. Because when you received it as an inheritance, you got a step-up in basis, which just simply means you won't owe any capital gains tax on the original inherited value. So, your potential tax is really the roughly $50,000 of appreciation since the inheritance.

So, if—if we're talking about an unrealized long-term capital gain of 50,000, if you were to sell the whole thing, and you've got household income, you know, of about 90,000 plus the 50, that would put you in the 15% long-term capital gains bracket. So, again, you know, if you sold the whole thing, you know, you would owe on, you know, the numbers we've been working with here, 15% on 50,000 is $7,500 in taxes.

Mary: I see. Okay. And if I'm wrong—of course, I know then it's more. If I'm wrong about the amount I've earned, because I'm not very familiar with how this all works, then it would be more. So, because at the same time, I thought, "Well, maybe I'll pay this off within two or three installments—you know, events—where they, you know, sell it for you." But then I thought, "Well, I'm paying—I'm accruing, not paying, I'm accruing interest to the debt every month." So, either I'm paying the bank now, or the tax person later. Does that make sense, the way I'm saying it, the way I'm thinking in my head?

Rob West: Yeah. And, you know, I think the key here is it's not treated as income; it's treated as capital gains. And so, you're not going to get up into a higher bracket on the capital gains until you get up over $500,000, which you're not going to have, because it's your total combined income plus the capital gain. And so, you're still going to—whether you sell the whole thing and realize the full difference between the selling price and the inherited value in one year, or you spread it out over multiple years, you know, you're—you're still going to pay 15%.

So, you know, it really, to your point, if that loan has a relatively high interest rate, you know, getting that guaranteed return equal to the interest rate that you're no longer paying, I think is—is often going to make the most sense. But ultimately, I think it would be good for you to sit down with a CPA before selling, just so they can estimate the capital gains tax and determine any other implications of selling this on the rest of your tax picture.

Mary: Oh, okay.

Rob West: Yeah.

Mary: That sounds great. And then, yes, absolutely. So, if next year comes around and I don't have that money to pay for the taxes, I think I've read that you can take money out of your, you know, stocks to pay the tax bill.

Rob West: You can. Yeah, I mean, it's going to need to get paid. They don't care where it comes from. But, yeah, so, you know, depending on what the tax implications are of that, you'd have to determine where to pull that from, but you are going to want to get that paid on a timely basis to avoid interest and penalties. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.

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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. Again, that number, 800-525-7000. You know, as we think about investing, and we think about the investments that we are putting into our retirement plans, or maybe we're just starting out, maybe you've even been investing for a lifetime and you've built up quite a nest egg, and you're wondering how to think about not only how much is enough and how much you need to accumulate over time, but perhaps you're thinking about how to align your investments with your faith and your values. You know, we've seen an incredible increase in the amount of faith-based investing going on as of late as this industry is just really flourishing. And, you know, whether we realize it or not, our investments tell a story. They reveal what matters most to us, what we want to see grow, whose kingdom we're ultimately building. And we see this, I think, starting in God's Word in Genesis. You know, from the beginning, God designed His people to participate in cultivating His world. Clearly, in Genesis 1 and 2, we are called to be fruitful, to multiply, to steward creation. Investing at its best is one of the modern avenues by which this happens. You know, it's the process of channeling resources into productive ventures that can bless and serve others. And this vision of faithful participation is really all throughout Scripture. I mean, take Jeremiah 29:7: "But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile." You see, God calls His people to seek the welfare of the city even while they're in exile. Well, that's a mission we can still carry today. You see, when we wisely invest in businesses and communities with wisdom, we can seek to advance the common good. It supplies capital for human flourishing by resourcing businesses that produce goods and services, and creates jobs, and supplies people with the things that they need, which promotes dignity, and justice, and opportunity in ways that reflect God's care for the world. Now, the question always comes down, "Okay, well, that sounds great, but what does that look like for me? How do I go about that in the course of my life in terms of ordering my investments in that way?" And there are a few ways we can do that. You know, some people choose to avoid certain industries, honoring their conscience and their convictions to not be invested in things like alcohol and tobacco. Maybe it's, for you, it's anything related to the abortion industry, or pornography—you know, anything that would have pornography accessible through its business or offerings. They want to stay away from it. I understand that, for good reason. You know, that's one approach. Others choose to engage with companies to encourage change, and we talk about that a lot here on this program as Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer join us on Fridays and share about the great work that's happening through the American Family Association through corporate engagement. That's yet another way to lean into a faith-oriented approach to investing. It's a recognition that as an owner, that confers a responsibility and certain rights. And exercising those rights through proxy voting and shareholder resolutions and, you know, showing up to be a part, an active investor in terms of letting your voice be heard to company leadership, can be a game changer. We've seen example after example of how that can be very influential. And so, you know, we can avoid certain industries, we can engage with companies to encourage change. Others will take a more proactive, what I'll call impact-investing approach, where they seek to invest in ventures directly that promote human flourishing. And wherever you fall on that spectrum, I think we can agree that investing is a meaningful expression of stewardship and a vehicle for kingdom impact. You know, our portfolios can direct resources to help people and communities thrive. And so ultimately, I think faithful investing starts with the heart. But then we move to the actual strategy that allows us to make investment decisions that really reflect the heart of God. And, you know, that's why we have so many incredible sponsors here on this show that you can connect with. A growing number of asset managers who are managing mutual funds and ETFs that are world-class that you can have confidence they have an expressly faith-based approach. You know, yes, they're looking to create value for their shareholders as they build portfolios, but they're also looking at the investments they own and making sure that those are investments that a Christian would want to hold in his or her portfolio. If you'd like to check out, you know, those asset managers or consider moving in the direction of faith-based investing with your portfolios, there's a couple of next steps you can take. Number one would be to go to our website and click on the show, just head to faithfi.com, click on the show, and about halfway down the page you'll see the tiles with all of those sponsors, like Eventide and Timothy Plan and GuideStone and others. You can check that out, again, at faithfi.com. The other way is to engage with an advisor who could build this kind of portfolio for you. And we've actually made it really easy when you're searching for a Certified Kingdom Advisor to only see the list of CKAs that offer faith-based investments, that, you know, are able to bring that kind of portfolio. Not every advisor does, not every CKA does, but when you go to findacka.com and choose the investment category, it will ask you, "Do you want CKAs that offer traditional investments, or would you like a faith-based approach?" and it will limit the results accordingly. So again, faithfi.com, click on the show, or go to findacka.com, and really exciting to see what's happening in this space as it continues to grow. By the way, think about this: Christians together, if you take both Protestants and Catholics together, hold about $22 trillion in the public markets—a little more than half of all investments in the United States in the public markets are in the hands of Christians. That's incredible power! Now, how much of that is actually in faith-based investments? About $150 billion. So literally just a drop in the bucket, which just simply means we have an incredible opportunity to see this play—this whole space just really flourish and grow, and it's happening. The growth rates are very impressive, and the new products and services, the new ETFs, the new mutual funds that are coming online, you know, just here in the last few months and literally it seems like every week new investments coming online, is really exciting because these are world-class investments and we have more and more options all the time. All right, we're going to head to a break here in just a moment. We will get back to the phones in the in the final segment, so now is a great time to call. If you have a question today, something that's going on in your financial life, we'd love to weigh in and help you think about it, not only in terms of the practical decision you need to make, but that practical decision in light of biblical wisdom, so that you're living within your means, and you're avoiding debt, and you're setting long-term goals, and you're giving generously, and you're also understanding the role of money in your life, and recognizing that it's a key way that we reflect what's most important to us as we make decisions. So whether you're paying down debt, preparing the next steward, investing for the future, or just trying to give wisely, we'll be happy to weigh in on your questions today. So call right now. We'll take as many of those calls as we can in the final segment when you call 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Hey, before we head to this break, let me remind you once again, between now and August the 31st, we're looking to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds as we partner with our good friends at Preborn! Every $28 given is going to fund one of those 1,500 free ultrasounds we're looking to fund through our partnership with FaithFi. You can head to faithfi.com/preborn to learn more. That's faithfi.com/preborn. All right, back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. Stick around.

Announcer: Children, of course, are given to parents by God, not to the state. Children don't belong to the state, and we need to make sure that those lines are very clearly protected in an increasingly secularized culture where the government has not only tried to make the church completely irrelevant, but basically replace parents. Jenna Ellis in the Morning. Weekdays at 7:00 Central on American Family Radio.

Announcer: When you look at the fundamental priorities that this administration has—rebuilding the American family through the various priorities, ensuring religious freedom is alive and well and flourishing in America, having a Department of Justice that is actually focused on enforcing the laws of the land—I have a hard time disagreeing with any of it. Join Walker Wildmon and Rick Green at The Core. 1:00 p.m. Central weekdays on AFR or on the AFR app.

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Announcer: Wondering who Faith & Finance recommends as a banking partner that aligns with Christian values? It's AdelFi Christian Banking, the trusted team you've known as Christian Community Credit Union. With high-yield checking, savings, Visa cash back cards, and a competitive money market account, your everyday banking helps advance the gospel. Visit faithfi.com/banking and use the code FAITHFI. Membership eligibility required. Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured.

Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your questions today at 800-525-7000. We've got three lines open. Call right now; we'll try to get to as many financial questions as we can in this segment. That's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Georgia. Faye, how can I help?

Faye: Uh, yes sir. I have a small personal care home, and I have this tax preparer that does my taxes. And she refuses to—if her calls, emails—and she refuses to get in touch with us about our taxes. And the IRS is sending us these big bills right now. I don't know what to do because I haven't been able to get in touch with an attorney that would help us out.

Rob West: Mm. Yeah, sounds like you need a new CPA, CPA, Faye. Um, you know, this is a situation where you need to act quickly. And first of all, I'm really sorry you're going through this, because I realize that can be stressful. Um, you know, the first thing I would do is stop relying on her, and really you're going to want to get that IRS notice that you've received, and I would find another reputable CPA or enrolled agent as soon as possible. Um, they can review your returns, determine whether the IRS bill is correct, and then communicate with the IRS on your behalf. But whatever you do, you don't want to ignore the notices. There are deadlines to appeal or respond. Now, what you will find is the IRS is actually, despite, you know, their bad reputation in some respects, they're pretty easy to work with. Um, you know, they do have a chat function. Um, you know, you can wait a good bit online, but, you know, often those notices will give you a specific URL to use at irs.gov that can give you specific answers to your questions. I know I had a question about my own tax file the other day, and I was able to chat with somebody, and I was able to authenticate using my login, and they were able to answer very specific questions in just a few minutes. So whether you go direct or, you know, you get a CPA or somebody to represent you, we don't want to delay any longer. And if you're not getting timely responses, I think it's time to move on. But give me your thoughts on all of that.

Faye: Well, the only thing about moving on is this is 2024.

Rob West: Okay. Yeah.

Faye: And so, I mean, it is building up, and she needs to be responsible for it.

Rob West: She does. Did you all file a 2024 return?

Faye: That's the one we're talking about.

Rob West: Right, but I just wanted to make sure—the notices you're getting are not because of non-filing. You actually filed, but they say you owe a balance, is that right?

Faye: Yes. But we don't know if she has filed or not, because she will not get back with us. And my bookkeeper, she can't even proceed to '25 because we haven't closed out '24.

Rob West: Got it. Got it. Yeah, and so this is really a significant issue. Did she ever provide—and I'm assuming the answer is no, but—did she ever provide a copy of the tax return that was originally filed to you?

Faye: No. That's what we're upset about, because we can't get a copy. But we did fill out a form from the IRS to make sure that she has filed. And we're waiting for it to come back. We don't know if she's filed it or not.

Rob West: Yes. Well, here's what I would do, because I feel like this is a really significant situation. Um, you know, I think the priority is to get the IRS issue resolved. Um, but you know, really the next option for you is to contact the State Board of Accountancy. And, you know, and that's a pretty significant thing. And so I think, you know, you may want to reach out to her one more time and just say, "Listen, this is a significant issue. We're getting notices, we need our tax return, and we need you to respond. And if I can't get you to respond, I'm going to have to contact the State Board of Accountancy and let them know that you're being non-responsive." And I suspect that would get her attention. Again, we're not trying to make this adversarial, but this is a significant issue here. And if somebody's acting unprofessionally or negligently, which is what you're describing, I think filing a complaint with your State Board of Accountancy is an appropriate next step. And perhaps if you let her know that's going to be your next step, you might get her to take this more seriously.

Faye: Okay. Well, does she have to be connected with the state board?

Rob West: If she's a CPA, that's her governing authority. Is she a Certified Public Accountant?

Faye: No, she's not. She's just an income tax preparer.

Rob West: Okay. Yeah. So then that would not be a State Board of Accountancy. And so at that point, your other option would be any kind of licensing authority if she's an enrolled agent. Um, you know, apart from that, you know, I'd probably just show up at her office and just say, "Listen, I need a copy of this, and I've got to have it. I've got to be able to respond to the IRS." Is she in close proximity to you?

Faye: She's, well, she's in the next town over.

Rob West: Okay. Yeah. Have you been to her office to visit her in person?

Faye: No, I have not, because she moved in the middle of all of this.

Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah, so I mean that would be one option. I think the other thing is you could go ahead and get a new CPA involved, and they can request what's called a transcript from the IRS that would give them a detailed record of everything that's been filed on your behalf. So that would allow this person, even if your current accountant is not responding, this new CPA through the transcript would be able to see what has been filed, what is owed, and why, and then they could reach out to the IRS on your behalf. So I think, regardless of whether you ever get this person to respond, I would move on and let a CPA who is going to serve you well just work directly with the IRS to get on top of this.

Faye: Okay. All right. Well, do they have to redo everything, or do they know...?

Rob West: No, if the tax return has already been filed for 2024, they can get a copy of it from the IRS. And again, that transcript will give them all the information they need, and it will probably even result in the IRS being perhaps even more lenient, just given the fact that you've got somebody you've been working with who's non-responsive. Um, so I wouldn't worry about it. I just want you to get a new, competent CPA in place that can start working on your behalf immediately, and there are steps they can take.

Faye: Okay.

Rob West: All righty? Hey, keep us posted, Faye, and thank you for your call today. Let's go to Virginia. Jose, how can I help? Jose, are you with us?

All right, looks like Jose had a question about dealing with the IRS on, well, perhaps it's back taxes. You know, this is an issue we see coming up more and more all the time with folks who have several years where they have not filed. And, you know, one of the first things you want to do in that situation is, especially if you have multiple years where you have not filed, often the best approach is to file the current year. Now you might say, "Well, wait a minute, I didn't file '23 and '24, you're telling me to go ahead and file '25?" Yeah, it often demonstrates your desire to get in compliance with the IRS and say that "I want to be in compliance moving forward, so I'm going to file my return, I'm going to pay any taxes owed." Now, let's go back and deal with those prior years, and maybe you need to set up a payment plan, or maybe you're going to ask for an offer in compromise because you don't have the ability to pay. You'll have to demonstrate that.

You know, but we find that when you can get current and then engage the IRS, they are absolutely willing to work with you. You know, typically, it's almost a no-brainer to get up to six months to pay an amount owed that you can't pay on a short-term payback. You can get payment plans up to six years once the IRS approves it. But again, there are options. The key thing you don't want to do is just kind of look away and say, "You know what, I'm just going to ignore it because I don't know what to do, I don't think I can pay it, and so I'm just not even going to file." That penalty for non-filing is going to hit you on top of the interest and other penalties, so you want to get that filed and then just work with the IRS to get that payment going. And then moving forward, let me make sure that we're making appropriate quarterly payments, especially if you're self-employed.

You know, that's so often what can hit people really hard is they're in a self-employed situation and they're not making quarterly estimated payments, and then you get to the end of the year and you say, "Wait a minute, I just don't have the ability to write this big check." Well, that's why we need to go ahead and build it in on the front end, make those payments along the way. That can really cause you some challenges there. And the key is communicate. You've got to lean in, you've got to start that conversation. By ignoring it, you're creating a lot of additional problems, and ultimately could be some pretty significant, not only penalties, but other repercussions as well. So let's not ignore those situations when they come up.

All right, folks, that's going to do it for us. Big thanks to my team today: Devin, Patty, and Taylor. So thankful for those amazing men and women that serve us here on this program each day and make all this possible. Thank you to you as well for listening and tuning in, for your phone calls. Don't forget, if you want to help us reach our goal between now and August 31st with Preborn!, funding these free ultrasounds—every $28 given at faithfi.com/preborn will help us reach our goal. In the meantime, may God bless you. Come back and join us tomorrow; we'll be here to do it all over again. May the Lord bless you. Bye-bye.

Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.

In Joshua 1:9, the Lord told Joshua, “Be strong and courageous.” Biblical courage is not bravado or self-confidence. Instead, it’s faithfulness rooted in God’s presence and promises. When it comes to money, we often need that courage—to give, to resist pressure, and to obey God when it costs us. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Dr. Craig Bartholomew discuss the virtue of fortitude. Then, it’s on to calls. 

(00:00) Rob West and Dr. Craig Bartholomew continue the Financial Virtues Series, discussing courage
(08:30) Rob West and Dr. Craig Bartholomew continue their conversation about courage
(21:04) Rob West gives stock market updates
(21:57) Rob West talks about wrapping up the series on Financial Virtues
(22:29) Caller Mary – Inherited stock that is used as loan collateral. Considering selling the stock to pay the debt.
(31:10) Rob West discusses aligning investments with values
(42:32) Caller Faye – Tax preparer ahs stopped responding and she is getting notices from the IRS