Rob West Proverbs 16:9 says, "The heart of a man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps." I am Rob West. Setting goals can be wise, but how do we pursue our ambitions without allowing success to define us? Today, best-selling author Jordan Raynor joins us to explore what it means to pursue meaningful goals with Christ-like confidence, while trusting God with the results. And then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest today is my friend Jordan Raynor, best-selling author, entrepreneur, and leading voice on the intersection of faith and work. Through his books, podcasts, and devotionals, Jordan has helped literally millions of Christians connect the gospel to their everyday work. He also serves as executive chairman of the tech company Threshold 360, and his books include Redeeming Your Time: The Sacredness of Secular Work, and his latest, that we'll be talking about today, Redeeming Your Goals: Seven Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character. Jordan, great to have you with us.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, Rob, it's always great to spend time with you. Thanks for having me.
Rob West I've been looking forward to this, Jordan. Now, I'm excited about diving into this topic today, but I think some Christians wrestle with the idea of ambition and setting goals. Now, it might intersect with their careers, maybe their finances, other areas of life, but why do you think goal setting itself isn't the problem?
Jordan Raynor Yeah, because Jesus himself had goals. Colossians 1:19 through 20 says that he came to reconcile to himself all things broken after the fall. Talk about a wildly audacious goal. And Scripture calls us to live intentionally as his image bearers. In the book of Ephesians, Paul is expounding upon the beautiful gospel of grace, and then he comes to, all right, what should our response be to the gospel? And in Ephesians 5:15 through 16, he says this:
See then that you walk carefully, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time because the days are evil. We are called to live with intention. The problem is not our goals. The problem is in how we're pursuing them. And in Redeeming Your Goals, I'm challenging readers to join our Savior in pursuing truly redemptive quests, which I define as any goal pursued with, like, and for God for his glory and the good of others, rather than our own fame and fortune. And even ordinary goals, like building a business, or losing weight, or completing an Ironman, or saving for retirement, whatever, can glorify God when they are pursued with, like, and for our Savior.
Rob West Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's press into that a bit more, though, because you mentioned this term "redemptive quests," and I want to distinguish that between what you also talk about in the book, "counterfeit quests." So what's the difference, and how do we recognize when we're pursuing the wrong kinds of goals?
Jordan Raynor It's a great question, Rob, and I think Christians and non-christians alike are pursuing a lot of the same counterfeit quests. I'll share just a couple of them right here.
• You know, one is the counterfeit quest of renown in our influencer-obsessed culture, of making life all about us and performing for others on social media.
• Second, counterfeit quest of recreation, chasing after our bucket list rather than the lost who are about to kick the bucket and spend eternity apart from God.
• Or number three, this counterfeit quest of retirement, right? Of trading a life of productivity for a life of endless leisure.
And listen, I know I'm on Faith and Finance, so I want to make this clear: I save for retirement. And a day in which I may not be able to work for pay any longer. And I imagine a lot of our listeners are too, and I think that's great.
But while God may call you to retire from the work you do for pay, I can guarantee you that he will never call you to retire from the work of the Lord. First Corinthians 15:58, Paul commands us, as long as we have breath in our lungs, to abound in the work of the Lord, knowing that our labor in the Lord is not in vain. And when I look at the gospel biographies of Jesus's life, Rob, Jesus rejected the counterfeit quests of renown, recreation, and retirement. What did he choose instead? Redemptive quests. Goals that were about his Father's glory and the good of others, rather than his own.
Rob West Oh, wow, it is so good. And by the way, you're speaking our language here at Faith and Finance about retiring to something and not from something, and the picture of the elders sitting at the city gate dispensing wisdom and investing in the next generation. It's a beautiful picture of what God designed. Well, we're going to continue this with Jordan Raynor. We're going to talk about how we pursue these ambitious redemptive quests right after this break. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West God never intended for our goals to become the measure of our worth. Our identity is secure in Christ, not what we accomplish. So dream boldly, plan wisely, and work faithfully, but hold the outcomes with an open hand. We're talking today about redeeming your goals. My friend Jordan Raynor is here. Jordan's latest book is Redeeming Your Goals: 7 Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character. Buy it wherever you buy books, and folks, you're not going to want to miss this one. Now, Jordan, we've been talking about these redemptive quests, and I love this picture. And you outline in the book something you call "baptizing your imagination." I love that. Talk about what that means and how can it shape how we pursue goals.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, Rob, listen, if you're listening to this show right now, you are declaring with your mouth that we worship an awesome God, and that that awesome God is dwelling in us. But respectfully, I would suggest that our teeny-tiny goals of what we're asking that awesome God to do through us betray our unbelief. And just to encourage you, this is nothing new. Jesus's own disciples, those who witnessed his miracles firsthand, often struggled to believe that they could accomplish anything of consequence, right? And all throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus challenging them to expand their vision of what's possible.
For example, when Peter could imagine forgiving somebody only seven times, what does Jesus do? He multiplies his friend's assumption by a factor of 11. When Andrew saw only five loaves and two fish, Jesus showed him how one lunch could feed over 5,000 people. But listen up, because this is critical: Jesus was not calling his disciples to increase the size of their faith, but the object of it. I would argue that most Christians' goals are so small because we are looking in a mirror at what we can do in our own strength, but Jesus is calling us to look out a window at what God can accomplish through us. He's baptizing our imaginations.
Christians should be setting the biggest goals on the planet, not for our own fame and fortune, but for God's glory and the good of others. And this nuance is really important: the world's definition of "big," exponential goals and God's are not always the same, right? The world narrowly defines big goals as 10x-ing your business or giving tons of money to charity, and that's great. But there are plenty of things that the world deems small that are big in the kingdom of God, like adopting one child and changing the trajectory of a family's life for generations, or sharing the gospel with just a handful of people in your neighborhood. All of that is big and exponential because our Lord operates with radically different math and timelines than the world.
Rob West Uh, so good. All right, let's talk about the how. So let's say we do pursue these audacious, redemptive goals, but how do we avoid the trap of striving and trying to do it in our own strength rather than depending on God? Paint that picture for us.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, there's this tension we see all throughout Scripture. You know, on the one hand, you got passages like Deuteronomy 8 that tell us that all wealth, all results in our goals come from God. So this is clearly a call to trust in God's provision, to depend on him. But then you got other passages of Scripture like Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3:23 that tell us to work heartily as unto the Lord, to hustle and get after it, right? So the question is, all right, which is it? Are we called to trust and depend on God, or are we called to strive and hustle in our own strength?
I think the answer, biblically, is not either/or, but both/and. I love how J.I. Packer, the great theologian, once put this. He said, "The Christian's motto should never be 'let go and let God,' but 'trust God and get going'," simultaneously, recognizing that my job is inputs, God's job is outcomes. My job is to plant seeds, God's job is to bring the harvest. I love the way that John Piper says this: "My job is faithfulness; God's job is fruitfulness."
So how do we get going in these goals? We show up, we do the work, we work heartily at them until our dying day, trusting that it is God alone producing the results. And I think that the best sign that you're holding that tension well is whether or not you can truly rest. If you can't take an hour off a day, if you can't take a day off a week, you're probably stuck depending on yourself rather than God. But if you are both trusting and hustling, I can work really, really hard and rest really, really well, knowing that the results were never in my hands in the first place.
Rob West Uh, wow. So let's say we are trusting and we are resting, but there's another piece of this—and I know you and I have talked about this quite a bit, because you've got small kids at home, I still have two at home, I'm about to be an empty nester, but not yet—but we've actually got to practice saying "no," which doesn't come easy to us, and I know you talk about this in the book as well.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, it doesn't come easy to us at all. I think we have this picture of Jesus as a divine people-pleaser with a Galilean grin and zero boundaries, but that's actually not what we see in Scripture. Jesus said no quite a bit throughout Scripture. And we're afraid to say no. I think—I'm speaking for myself here, Rob—oftentimes the reason why I say yes so much is because I love being other people's savior. I love feeling like I am indispensable. But listen, graveyards are filled with indispensable men and women. I'm not special. Neither are you.
And the example of Christ frees me to say no to good things so that I can say yes to the very best and most unique things that God has called me to focus on in this life. And in the book, I outline 12 practices just within this principle of lightening your load and helping you say no to things. Happy to share some of those if you want, but, man, for me, this has been critical. Constantly, constantly, constantly dropping things from my to-do list, dropping things from my calendar, so that I can narrowly focus on the essential few tasks God has called me to in this season.
Rob West Folks, pick up Redeeming Your Goals. You can see all of these principles and practical ideas. Jordan, I want to talk about something you call "the messy middle," because let's say we set those redemptive quests. Unfortunately, it's not from that point always up and to the right, right? We can get to that place where things stall out, and we have to discern: is it time to persevere, or do I jettison this goal and move toward something else? How do you think through that?
Jordan Raynor I think a lot of our hustle culture leads us to think that the only godly response to the messy middle of a goal is to persevere. But that's not actually what I see in Scripture, right? There's that famous scene of Jesus sending his followers out on a mission in Matthew 10, and he says, quote, "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet," see Matthew 10:14, right?
So sometimes, Jesus is giving his followers explicit permission to quit a strategy or quit a goal. And then other times, of course, he modeled perfect perseverance, like most dramatically on the eve of his crucifixion when he went to the cross even though he was sweating blood at the prospect.
So what's the point? I think the point is this: there are many different God-honoring maneuvers you can make in the messy middle of a goal. You can quit your goal, you can pivot your strategy for your goal, or you can persevere, which means that we have a need for wisdom in the messy middle, which does not come from AI. It comes from God and God's people, and that's what we need to maneuver the messy middle wisely.
Rob West It's powerful, Jordan, and you've given us a roadmap to pursue these redemptive quests in a way that's God-honoring, without relying on our own strength, but trusting and depending on him. Thanks for your time, my friend. This has been a gift.
Jordan Raynor Thank you, Rob.
Rob West Folks, pick up a copy of Jordan's brand-new book, Redeeming Your Goals: 7 Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character, wherever you buy books. All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions on any financial topic right after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. By the way, if you've not checked out our website recently, we'd love for you to do that. The wealth of content, articles, podcasts, and videos there to help you be a wise and faithful steward of God's money is incredible. You'll find it all at faithfi.com. You can visit that on your smartphone or on your desktop. Again, faithfi.com; just click the content button. Also while you're there, check out the Faith Fi app that can help you manage God's money and access all of this great content on the go—just click the app tab. Again, it's all at faithfi.com. Let's head right back to the phones, Miami, Florida. Hi Mo, go right ahead.
Mo So, I just learned recently that my survivor benefits don't exist. Apparently, when I was younger and I opted out—well, how I chose my beneficiary, I thought I had made my son and my wife my beneficiary, but apparently I didn't, cuz I double-checked my pension and was told that when I die, my pension dies. So now, moving forward, I want to be able to protect them. I have a special needs son and my wife, so I want to leave them with something. So I was thinking of getting a million-dollar policy. One of the things I was looking at is laddering. I heard laddering is something that instead of just getting investing for 10 years for maybe 10 years for $500k and $500k for 15 years, and that way when it runs out at 10 years, the first one, at least I still have, you know, 5 years left on the other one.
The other thing is, is my disabled son has a special needs trust. He has about $250k in that one. He gets government benefits, and so I make about $5k in my pension, and I get $1,200 with Social Security. My house is paid for, and I have about $2,000 in expenses every month. So I have enough to invest, you know, $1,000 or even $2,000 a month in insurance and investments. So I just kind of want to be able to pick your brain and see what you suggest.
Rob West Yeah. Well, I appreciate all that background and, you know, I appreciate the details there. I'd review your pension to make sure there isn't truly a survivor benefit option available. If there isn't, you know, then your goal of course is to replace that lost income in the most cost-effective way. Life insurance may be an option, although premiums at age 63 can be significant. I'd also look at whether you can build or earmark investment assets that would pass directly.
So, in terms of life insurance, if the cost is reasonable, obviously that would be an option. You could look at a permanent policy. In terms of building a dedicated portfolio for this purpose, I think could be obviously something that's really effective. I like the fact that he's got that special needs trust, so that would ensure that whatever assets you're able to accumulate don't jeopardize his eligibility for benefits. That's going to be obviously really key.
I think in terms of the house being paid off, that obviously is going to reduce your ongoing income needs, and with that surplus, I think you need to look at the premiums weighed against investing for that $2,000 a month. So I think I wouldn't automatically assume that life insurance is the best answer. I'd compare the cost of insurance with what a disciplined investing strategy could accomplish over time. If you're healthy and the premiums are reasonable, obviously a life insurance policy could provide an immediate estate for your family. But if those premiums are high, I think just consistently investing that amount each month for your spouse and your son's trust may be a better long-term strategy at the end of the day.
But let me stop there and just get your thoughts on that.
Mo Well, I'm kind of weighing those things out. I saw that Banner insurance—because I'm, you know, at the age of 63, I'm in really good health. So I looked at some options there and it seems like that could be an option. I just want to—you know, you don't know when the Lord's going to call you. So I'd love to have an investment strategy, but at the same time I'd like to be covered with some insurance at, you know, at least a million dollars so that the two of them can be, you know, protected. So I look at different insurances, and the one that pops out the most that's affordable and good reputation seems to be Banner, just keeps popping up all the time. So I'm just wondering, because there's so many different insurance companies out there that make claims, but you never know with the reputations that some of them have.
Rob West Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot, and I think Banner is known for having a fairly good A.M. Best rating and still being fairly cost-effective, so I think that could be a great option. You know, you could look at quotes for a million-dollar term policy or guaranteed universal life if you want that lifelong coverage, and then take the balance and invest that into a diversified portfolio, name the special needs trust as the beneficiary, and then review that plan every few years as your investments grow.
I would still compare it. I mean, Banner is a well-known insurer, but it's probably in this case good, especially with you being healthy, to have an independent insurance professional really go out across all the different highly rated companies and compare premiums, underwriting, policy guarantees, conversion options if it's term insurance, and then of course the financial strength ratings. Because the goal is ultimately to make sure you're buying the right coverage at a competitive price while continuing to build wealth through investing, and if we could time the two of those or kind of look at those in conjunction with one another, I think that would be ideal.
Mo Good, that's kind of what I was hoping I'd hear you say, and I'm glad to hear you say it. Yeah, I need to have them both. Yeah, I think that's the right way to go. I appreciate your time.
Rob West Do you have—absolutely, Mo. Do you have an insurance agent that you could reach out to on this?
Mo Yeah, yeah, I do.
Rob West Okay, good. Yeah, I think having somebody go out across the market and really look at a number of different companies and see where you can find that sweet spot, and then obviously if you get that policy that meets all of your goals with the right strength rating and a competitive premium, then hopefully you've got still quite a bit left where you can just be on a systematic basis socking that away and investing it for the future.
Hope that helps, Mo. It sounds like you're on the right track, my friend. Thanks for being on the program today. Lord bless you.
We're going to take a quick break and then come back with more questions right after this. Don't go anywhere.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West We're so glad you're along with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Our goal, our hope and prayer for you is that you would see God as your ultimate treasure as we explore God's word as it relates to money decisions. Let's go back to the phones. Carol is in Michigan. Carol, how can I help you?
Carol Hi, um, thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm 60 and my husband is 63. And right now we are living in, I guess what I call a money pit, and a house with a hill that we can't mow, and we feel like we're being forced to move out. Um, and we're going to be going into an apartment. Um, the issue is we have not a lot of money. We have, let's see, $36, about $3,600 between the two of us. Um, I get social security disability and and then also my husband's income. Um, our apartment would be something like $1,100 a month.
Um, when we sell our house, if we decide to do that, we'd be getting probably $240,000 after realtor expenses and all that. Um, and I guess I'm wondering a couple things, wondering about an annuity, if that's a good idea with an income level that much. And also, I talked to a fiduciary advisor who said he would be—he would charge like a 1.25% fee per year, um, to help us come up with a plan. So I'm just kind of wondering if either one of these things are a good idea, or or what we should do.
Rob West Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. And and the nice thing is when you get out of the house, you're calling the money pit and I understand how frustrating that can be and how expensive it is, you know, it's a great time for you to take a breath and formulate that plan moving forward as to what does your financial foundation look like? How do we make sure we have enough in emergency savings? How do we make sure we have a budget where we're living within our means?
Um, so you're not taking on any debt, but we're also prioritizing things like, in addition to just the monthly bills, you know, are we able to give regularly and at a level that we're happy with? Um, are we saving for the future? Uh, maybe you have a company plan at work or you could form your own retirement plan if you don't already have one, but are you putting something into it? And then, with the 240,000 that you would have net, I would probably not do anything right away until you know kind of what your future plans hold to the best of your ability. Because, for instance, um, you know, if you all decided, let's say in the next 3 years, you'd like to buy a home, well that's going to dramatically change what we do with the 240,000 versus you saying, no, we don't have any plans to buy another house in the next 5 plus years.
Um, you know, one of the downsides to the annuity is the money becomes illiquid, meaning that you can't access it without some significant surrender charges, at least in the early years of that annuity. Um, so although it can provide some guaranteed income and some guaranteed returns, there's a cost to guarantees, and the cost is going to come in the form of either illiquid, illiquidity, meaning you can't get to the money as I just said, or secondly, you're going to have to give up some of the upside.
On the other hand, the fiduciary that you talked about, which just simply means he's an advisor or she is that is legally obligated to put your interests above his or her own in terms of how they manage the money or the products they recommend, could manage this money for you, help you grow it, but also make sure you have access to it. However, if you think you want to get to this money in the next 5 years to buy a home, we don't want to invest it. We probably want to put it in things like money market and CDs because what if four and a half years from now the market heads down because we're in a recession and that portfolio that that fiduciary is managing for you is down 30%, and now all of a sudden you're trying to sell the stocks to buy a home, you could take a pretty significant loss.
And so that's why we need to match the investments to the time horizon. So, let me stop there and just kind of get your thoughts on maybe what the next 3 to 5 years holds in your mind.
Carol Okay, yeah, um, well we wouldn't be looking to buy another home because the house we have right now is quite old and it's, um, a couple realtors have already told us that if we bought anything smaller or, you know, I don't know, we'd have double taxes from what we have now, which we couldn't afford, and also we would have more problems because once the realtor's fees are taken out, we're going to have to buy a smaller home and or less expensive, I should say.
But so we're not we're not wanting to do that again, because that would be more problems. We're pretty much planning on staying in an apartment just because of the trust, and I'm on disability and I—my husband's not what you would call, um, a handyman. So I've been doing it, and I've been hurting myself doing it, and I just the stress of it's killing me, so I just feel like we have to get out. I can't take it anymore.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, I certainly appreciate that and and I guess, you know, given what you're describing here, I mean, I I don't want to make sure we make I'll make I want to make sure we don't get in what we call a binary trap where we say, you know, apartment or home that's dilapidated and needs a lot of work. You know, maybe there's a third option. Maybe there's a a townhouse that you buy that's a little newer, maybe a little smaller, but allows you to buy something that you could own, you know, that you would have a little more control over and you're not, you know, at the whim of whatever happens with the rent, uh, from your landlord, and you could have something that appreciates over time.
So I I just want to make sure that, yeah, I I think it sounds like you need to get out of this home, you all need to take a deep breath, get your financial footing under you, and, you know, you've you've got some stress that's built up and uh, you know, I I realize there's a, you know, a little bit of, uh, lingering effect to what you've been experiencing. But, you know, let's say you get to a better place and you all ready to buy something that's your own, again, maybe it's not a single-family home, maybe it's a townhome, um, you know, I just want to make sure that the investment strategy matches the possible plans you might have over the next 5 years, and that we don't get locked into something that could limit the, uh, decisions you can make in the future.
So, I think connecting with a certified kingdom advisor makes sense, to do some planning, figure out what your income sources are going to be in retirement, figure out how to to manage this 240,000 between now and whenever, you know, you decide if, in fact, apartment living is your long-term plan, you know, then this could be managed in such a way that maybe it becomes an income stream for you over time.
I mean, I I could see us reasonably pulling 5% a year, you know, which is 1,000 a month from the 240,000 that could supplement your disability or social security. And that could be a real blessing, and that's very possible with the right money manager who's prioritizing safety and income, but could also generate a reasonable rate of return for you.
So, um, I think you're right. I think the advisor is the next step. I just wouldn't lock this up in an insurance product given some of the uncertainties of what the future may hold.
Carol Okay, so kind of wait on thinking about an annuity and maybe invest in other things then?
Rob West I think that's right, and I think as a part of the planning process to determine what are your income sources in the future, what does your budget look like, where are you guys ultimately going to settle, is it something that you might buy that's smaller and and townhome, is it, you know, apartment living for the foreseeable future, then I think you can determine what investments to buy in the meantime.
I'd probably stay with things like CDs and money market. The good news is those things are paying 4 and 5% right now. That's a blessing. So you can have a high degree of safety, have predictable liquidity, still get a reasonable rate of return, and buy yourself some time so over the next 12 months, maybe you make that decision as to where you think the Lord may be leading you all, you know, longer term, 5 to 10 years plus.
Um, and that's where an advisor could really shine. Perhaps it's the one you know, maybe you find another to consider at find a cka.com, but I think in either case getting some professional counsel makes a lot of sense, and they can help you in managing the money. Carol, thanks for your call today. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Greetings and welcome with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Let's head to Texas. Linda, your next up, go right ahead.
Linda Hello. I'm calling because I'm trying to get a refund.
Rob West Okay.
Linda For my deceased, uh, my son who is deceased.
Rob West Yes, ma'am.
Linda I've been trying for two years. Um, I keep getting this form 1310 from the IRS.
Rob West Mm-hmm. Yes.
Linda And, uh, I've sent, uh, proof copy of the death certificate and everything, but still not getting it.
Rob West Mm-hmm.
Linda And one point they even told me they didn't have enough representatives trained to, uh, you know, handle the, uh, the, uh, refund because they didn't have it a few trained on how many, uh, people who are deceased. So I was just wondering if you could give me some advice on what to do today.
Rob West Yes, ma'am. Well, first of all, I'm so sorry to hear about his passing. And yeah, the the form that you're referring to is an important step, but it may not be the only requirement. The key question is whether you're legally authorized to receive the refund on behalf of his estate. Being his mother doesn't automatically make you entitled. Do you know whether that's clear?
Linda Well, the last time I talked to someone, and this was the first time in two years that I've been trying to get it, he did mention that, uh, on the port three where I check says, um, "Is the person claiming the refund for the descendants estate? Will you pay out the refund refund according to the laws of the state?" And then he said, "Well, that's where the problem is, uh, with his estate." Did you have proof, you know, that you are the one open for this estate? I said, "Well, we didn't have an estate."
Rob West Yes. And that's that's the job of the probate court. So normally what would happen here is the typical steps on this, Linda, would be, uh, you would file a final tax return, so that would be the 2024 tax return that indicates his passing and the date of death. And then the you would complete that form 1310 that you're referring to that tells the IRS who is claiming the refund on behalf of the deceased taxpayer. And then you would need to determine whether you are the court-appointed personal representative, and if it's not gone through probate or that process hasn't concluded, then that needs to be done because, uh, if you are, the IRS is going to need documentation of that appointment. If not, you still may qualify to claim the refund depending on the circumstances and the state law. Do you have a CPA that you've worked with in the past or or currently do?
Linda No, not a CPA. I do have a financial advisor, though.
Rob West Okay. Yeah, I would give this to your financial advisor and perhaps, uh, your advisor could connect you with a certified public accountant, somebody who could help you navigate this. It shouldn't be difficult. It really is just a matter of getting the documentation from the probate court to show that you are in fact the one who is to receive this, being able to provide that, um, completing this form, and then, you know, it's just going to take their normal processing time. But, um, there shouldn't be anything holding up the refund once this form is filed, once you provide the state estate documentation, and so long as that final return was filed, and that's where you made a tax professional get involved.
Linda Okay.
Rob West But I would go back to your advisor and have he or she help you navigate that, okay, Linda?
Linda Could I ask another question?
Rob West Yes, ma'am, of course.
Linda Uh, I've been trying to, um, get, uh, my mail. I'm having trouble getting mail delivered to him, especially, uh, like bank statements. And this morning I found, uh, on the internet a robot form where it says they were, uh, picked the password for you if you open the account online for the statements. Have you heard anything about this company, or do you think that would be okay?
Rob West I would be hesitant for you to proceed with something like that just because I don't know the source of that. So are you having trouble getting all mail, or is it just specifically related to one of the companies you do business with?
Linda No, it looked like anything that has financial, uh, like bank statement or credit union statement.
Rob West Hmm.
Linda I get them.
Rob West Okay. I I would talk to the Post Office about that, um, because there shouldn't be anything that would prohibit that specifically. Um, you know, if this is happening regularly, I would just talk to your mail carrier or go down to the local post office and ask if there's any delivery issues affecting your address. Um, but there, um, you know, in terms of there is a free service that allows you to preview images of incoming letters. It's called Informed Delivery. But there's nothing that should be stopping only, uh, you know, bank related information from coming to you. And I wouldn't complete a form online that you found. I would just be a little hesitant that that may be trying to, uh, grab your personal information.
Linda Well, I do have that Informed Delivery and that's how I know some of the statements are not getting to him because, you know, it'll show that I should get it, but when the mail is delivered, I'm not getting it.
Rob West I see. So I would go down to the local post office and let them know, I have informed delivery, I'm seeing these preview images, but they're not making it to me. Can you help sort out why that is? And they they would be the place for you to go.
Linda Okay.
Rob West All right. You're welcome. Lord bless you, Linda. Thank you for calling today. Uh, up to Illinois. Sarah, go ahead.
Sarah Hi. Um, I have a question about life insurance. Uh, lost my husband in January.
Rob West Hmm.
Sarah And, um, he did not leave me with adequate resources. And I have about $200,000 in repairs on buildings that needed to be done over the past 30 years that he didn't do. And I just found out that I have four life insurance policies, but I have no heirs. And I'm paying $6, $7,000 a year in premiums on these policies. And I'm wondering if I should just take the loss and cash them out.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't see it as a loss necessarily because it was offsetting a risk that existed potentially if you were bringing in household income that your family was relying on. In this case, it was just you and your husband. Um, but because you're now in your 70s, you uh don't have any heirs. You're not looking to offset a risk that exists. We would want to let that life insurance go because, to your point, you need that money for other things. Um, is that what the was this a term policy, or were these whole life policies?
Sarah They are whole life.
Rob West Okay. Do you know what the cash value is on those?
Sarah Um, each one is different and I just like one of them is for 50,000 and I think the cash value is like 26.
Rob West Okay.
Sarah And another one is a $25,000 policy and the cash value was 6,000.
Rob West Yeah.
Sarah So that's what I mean about taking the loss. I mean, it's just I don't think it'll even cover all the premiums that have been paid, but, I mean, $6,000 a year when I have, like, $200,000 in repairs on buildings to make.
Rob West Yeah.
Sarah That that's a nice little chunk of change, you know?
Rob West It sure is. Yeah, that would add up. So I think the steps here are first to determine if you still need the life insurance. Now, sound like it it you don't, because you're not trying to protect heirs or others in your family that would be placed in a difficult spot if you were to pass away. So then the next step is just to review every policy individually. Because these are whole life, we want to know what those cash value amounts are for each one. Um, and then you would essentially just tell them you want to cancel them, cash them out, you'll get the cash value back, the policies will be canceled at that point. And then you're going to recoup 500 a month, 6,000 a year, which will add up over time. But again, this is an unnecessary expense, especially given your other commitments.
Sarah Yes. Okay, that's you're confirming what I have come to the conclusion in the last 24 hours. It's like, why am I doing this?
Rob West Yeah. I completely concur. Uh Sarah, let's do this. I'm going to send you a copy of a book called Wise Women Managing Money. And I think it'll be a blessing to you. Um, Miriam Neff wrote this when her husband Bob passed away. She actually has a ministry called Widow Connection just to serve widows who are now placed in a position where they're managing the family finances. And this book was written for people just like you. And I think it'll be a blessing. We'll put it in the mail as our gift to you, okay?
Sarah Oh, okay. Thank you.
Rob West All right. Hang on the line. Uh, let's head to Missouri. Linda, go ahead.
Linda Uh, yes. Okay, I've been listening to your show for years and I really like it. And, I recently heard you talk about, uh, leaving an inheritance to your children while you leave while you're living.
Rob West Yeah.
Linda And that really sparked my interest. I I thought it was great.
Rob West Thank you.
Linda So I want to know what's the maximum amount I can, uh, give without it being taxable or IRS involved?
Rob West Yeah. Well, the good news here, Linda, and and I love this desire that you have to start given some of the inheritance now. Um, the good news is that your children won't owe federal income tax on the money you give them based on the current laws at least, regardless of the amount. You can give them up to $19,000 per child, but even then, you would just let the IRS know if you go beyond that and your lifetime federal exemption is $15 million. So unless you're going to give them quite a bit of money, you're not going to get anywhere close to that. Uh, so the good news is it's really just a function of how much do you need to live on for the rest of your life to maintain your lifestyle, but apart from that, you could certainly start passing this along to them while it may be a real blessing in this season of life. Uh, do you have an advisor that you work with?
Linda No, I don't.
Rob West Okay. Well, I would recommend you connect with a certified Kingdom advisor there in Missouri who can help you walk through this, but also think about the biblical perspective you've been hearing on this program. You can find a CKA in your area at findacka.com. And we'll send you a copy of our new field guide, How to Prepare the Next Steward that will help you create a plan for how much to give them now versus later and think about passing spiritual and character capital before financial capital. So hang on the line, we'll get that right out to you and thanks for your call today, Linda. Lord bless you. That's going to do it for us today, folks. Hey, if you want to support the program, consider becoming a FaithFi partner. You can do that when you head to faithfi.com/give. Partner support the ministry at $35 a month or $400 a year. We send you our magazine, all of our new studies and devotionals. It's a real blessing to us and thanks in advance. Big thanks to Devin, Taylor, Patty, Pat, and everybody here at FaithFi. We'll see you next time.
Rob West Proverbs 16:9 says, "The heart of a man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps." I am Rob West. Setting goals can be wise, but how do we pursue our ambitions without allowing success to define us? Today, best-selling author Jordan Raynor joins us to explore what it means to pursue meaningful goals with Christ-like confidence, while trusting God with the results. And then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest today is my friend Jordan Raynor, best-selling author, entrepreneur, and leading voice on the intersection of faith and work. Through his books, podcasts, and devotionals, Jordan has helped literally millions of Christians connect the gospel to their everyday work. He also serves as executive chairman of the tech company Threshold 360, and his books include Redeeming Your Time: The Sacredness of Secular Work, and his latest, that we'll be talking about today, Redeeming Your Goals: Seven Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character. Jordan, great to have you with us.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, Rob, it's always great to spend time with you. Thanks for having me.
Rob West I've been looking forward to this, Jordan. Now, I'm excited about diving into this topic today, but I think some Christians wrestle with the idea of ambition and setting goals. Now, it might intersect with their careers, maybe their finances, other areas of life, but why do you think goal setting itself isn't the problem?
Jordan Raynor Yeah, because Jesus himself had goals. Colossians 1:19 through 20 says that he came to reconcile to himself all things broken after the fall. Talk about a wildly audacious goal. And Scripture calls us to live intentionally as his image bearers. In the book of Ephesians, Paul is expounding upon the beautiful gospel of grace, and then he comes to, all right, what should our response be to the gospel? And in Ephesians 5:15 through 16, he says this:
See then that you walk carefully, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time because the days are evil. We are called to live with intention. The problem is not our goals. The problem is in how we're pursuing them. And in Redeeming Your Goals, I'm challenging readers to join our Savior in pursuing truly redemptive quests, which I define as any goal pursued with, like, and for God for his glory and the good of others, rather than our own fame and fortune. And even ordinary goals, like building a business, or losing weight, or completing an Ironman, or saving for retirement, whatever, can glorify God when they are pursued with, like, and for our Savior.
Rob West Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's press into that a bit more, though, because you mentioned this term "redemptive quests," and I want to distinguish that between what you also talk about in the book, "counterfeit quests." So what's the difference, and how do we recognize when we're pursuing the wrong kinds of goals?
Jordan Raynor It's a great question, Rob, and I think Christians and non-christians alike are pursuing a lot of the same counterfeit quests. I'll share just a couple of them right here.
• You know, one is the counterfeit quest of renown in our influencer-obsessed culture, of making life all about us and performing for others on social media.
• Second, counterfeit quest of recreation, chasing after our bucket list rather than the lost who are about to kick the bucket and spend eternity apart from God.
• Or number three, this counterfeit quest of retirement, right? Of trading a life of productivity for a life of endless leisure.
And listen, I know I'm on Faith and Finance, so I want to make this clear: I save for retirement. And a day in which I may not be able to work for pay any longer. And I imagine a lot of our listeners are too, and I think that's great.
But while God may call you to retire from the work you do for pay, I can guarantee you that he will never call you to retire from the work of the Lord. First Corinthians 15:58, Paul commands us, as long as we have breath in our lungs, to abound in the work of the Lord, knowing that our labor in the Lord is not in vain. And when I look at the gospel biographies of Jesus's life, Rob, Jesus rejected the counterfeit quests of renown, recreation, and retirement. What did he choose instead? Redemptive quests. Goals that were about his Father's glory and the good of others, rather than his own.
Rob West Oh, wow, it is so good. And by the way, you're speaking our language here at Faith and Finance about retiring to something and not from something, and the picture of the elders sitting at the city gate dispensing wisdom and investing in the next generation. It's a beautiful picture of what God designed. Well, we're going to continue this with Jordan Raynor. We're going to talk about how we pursue these ambitious redemptive quests right after this break. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West God never intended for our goals to become the measure of our worth. Our identity is secure in Christ, not what we accomplish. So dream boldly, plan wisely, and work faithfully, but hold the outcomes with an open hand. We're talking today about redeeming your goals. My friend Jordan Raynor is here. Jordan's latest book is Redeeming Your Goals: 7 Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character. Buy it wherever you buy books, and folks, you're not going to want to miss this one. Now, Jordan, we've been talking about these redemptive quests, and I love this picture. And you outline in the book something you call "baptizing your imagination." I love that. Talk about what that means and how can it shape how we pursue goals.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, Rob, listen, if you're listening to this show right now, you are declaring with your mouth that we worship an awesome God, and that that awesome God is dwelling in us. But respectfully, I would suggest that our teeny-tiny goals of what we're asking that awesome God to do through us betray our unbelief. And just to encourage you, this is nothing new. Jesus's own disciples, those who witnessed his miracles firsthand, often struggled to believe that they could accomplish anything of consequence, right? And all throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus challenging them to expand their vision of what's possible.
For example, when Peter could imagine forgiving somebody only seven times, what does Jesus do? He multiplies his friend's assumption by a factor of 11. When Andrew saw only five loaves and two fish, Jesus showed him how one lunch could feed over 5,000 people. But listen up, because this is critical: Jesus was not calling his disciples to increase the size of their faith, but the object of it. I would argue that most Christians' goals are so small because we are looking in a mirror at what we can do in our own strength, but Jesus is calling us to look out a window at what God can accomplish through us. He's baptizing our imaginations.
Christians should be setting the biggest goals on the planet, not for our own fame and fortune, but for God's glory and the good of others. And this nuance is really important: the world's definition of "big," exponential goals and God's are not always the same, right? The world narrowly defines big goals as 10x-ing your business or giving tons of money to charity, and that's great. But there are plenty of things that the world deems small that are big in the kingdom of God, like adopting one child and changing the trajectory of a family's life for generations, or sharing the gospel with just a handful of people in your neighborhood. All of that is big and exponential because our Lord operates with radically different math and timelines than the world.
Rob West Uh, so good. All right, let's talk about the how. So let's say we do pursue these audacious, redemptive goals, but how do we avoid the trap of striving and trying to do it in our own strength rather than depending on God? Paint that picture for us.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, there's this tension we see all throughout Scripture. You know, on the one hand, you got passages like Deuteronomy 8 that tell us that all wealth, all results in our goals come from God. So this is clearly a call to trust in God's provision, to depend on him. But then you got other passages of Scripture like Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3:23 that tell us to work heartily as unto the Lord, to hustle and get after it, right? So the question is, all right, which is it? Are we called to trust and depend on God, or are we called to strive and hustle in our own strength?
I think the answer, biblically, is not either/or, but both/and. I love how J.I. Packer, the great theologian, once put this. He said, "The Christian's motto should never be 'let go and let God,' but 'trust God and get going'," simultaneously, recognizing that my job is inputs, God's job is outcomes. My job is to plant seeds, God's job is to bring the harvest. I love the way that John Piper says this: "My job is faithfulness; God's job is fruitfulness."
So how do we get going in these goals? We show up, we do the work, we work heartily at them until our dying day, trusting that it is God alone producing the results. And I think that the best sign that you're holding that tension well is whether or not you can truly rest. If you can't take an hour off a day, if you can't take a day off a week, you're probably stuck depending on yourself rather than God. But if you are both trusting and hustling, I can work really, really hard and rest really, really well, knowing that the results were never in my hands in the first place.
Rob West Uh, wow. So let's say we are trusting and we are resting, but there's another piece of this—and I know you and I have talked about this quite a bit, because you've got small kids at home, I still have two at home, I'm about to be an empty nester, but not yet—but we've actually got to practice saying "no," which doesn't come easy to us, and I know you talk about this in the book as well.
Jordan Raynor Yeah, it doesn't come easy to us at all. I think we have this picture of Jesus as a divine people-pleaser with a Galilean grin and zero boundaries, but that's actually not what we see in Scripture. Jesus said no quite a bit throughout Scripture. And we're afraid to say no. I think—I'm speaking for myself here, Rob—oftentimes the reason why I say yes so much is because I love being other people's savior. I love feeling like I am indispensable. But listen, graveyards are filled with indispensable men and women. I'm not special. Neither are you.
And the example of Christ frees me to say no to good things so that I can say yes to the very best and most unique things that God has called me to focus on in this life. And in the book, I outline 12 practices just within this principle of lightening your load and helping you say no to things. Happy to share some of those if you want, but, man, for me, this has been critical. Constantly, constantly, constantly dropping things from my to-do list, dropping things from my calendar, so that I can narrowly focus on the essential few tasks God has called me to in this season.
Rob West Folks, pick up Redeeming Your Goals. You can see all of these principles and practical ideas. Jordan, I want to talk about something you call "the messy middle," because let's say we set those redemptive quests. Unfortunately, it's not from that point always up and to the right, right? We can get to that place where things stall out, and we have to discern: is it time to persevere, or do I jettison this goal and move toward something else? How do you think through that?
Jordan Raynor I think a lot of our hustle culture leads us to think that the only godly response to the messy middle of a goal is to persevere. But that's not actually what I see in Scripture, right? There's that famous scene of Jesus sending his followers out on a mission in Matthew 10, and he says, quote, "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet," see Matthew 10:14, right?
So sometimes, Jesus is giving his followers explicit permission to quit a strategy or quit a goal. And then other times, of course, he modeled perfect perseverance, like most dramatically on the eve of his crucifixion when he went to the cross even though he was sweating blood at the prospect.
So what's the point? I think the point is this: there are many different God-honoring maneuvers you can make in the messy middle of a goal. You can quit your goal, you can pivot your strategy for your goal, or you can persevere, which means that we have a need for wisdom in the messy middle, which does not come from AI. It comes from God and God's people, and that's what we need to maneuver the messy middle wisely.
Rob West It's powerful, Jordan, and you've given us a roadmap to pursue these redemptive quests in a way that's God-honoring, without relying on our own strength, but trusting and depending on him. Thanks for your time, my friend. This has been a gift.
Jordan Raynor Thank you, Rob.
Rob West Folks, pick up a copy of Jordan's brand-new book, Redeeming Your Goals: 7 Biblical Principles for Achieving Your Goals with Christ-Like Confidence, Consistency, and Character, wherever you buy books. All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions on any financial topic right after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. By the way, if you've not checked out our website recently, we'd love for you to do that. The wealth of content, articles, podcasts, and videos there to help you be a wise and faithful steward of God's money is incredible. You'll find it all at faithfi.com. You can visit that on your smartphone or on your desktop. Again, faithfi.com; just click the content button. Also while you're there, check out the Faith Fi app that can help you manage God's money and access all of this great content on the go—just click the app tab. Again, it's all at faithfi.com. Let's head right back to the phones, Miami, Florida. Hi Mo, go right ahead.
Mo So, I just learned recently that my survivor benefits don't exist. Apparently, when I was younger and I opted out—well, how I chose my beneficiary, I thought I had made my son and my wife my beneficiary, but apparently I didn't, cuz I double-checked my pension and was told that when I die, my pension dies. So now, moving forward, I want to be able to protect them. I have a special needs son and my wife, so I want to leave them with something. So I was thinking of getting a million-dollar policy. One of the things I was looking at is laddering. I heard laddering is something that instead of just getting investing for 10 years for maybe 10 years for $500k and $500k for 15 years, and that way when it runs out at 10 years, the first one, at least I still have, you know, 5 years left on the other one.
The other thing is, is my disabled son has a special needs trust. He has about $250k in that one. He gets government benefits, and so I make about $5k in my pension, and I get $1,200 with Social Security. My house is paid for, and I have about $2,000 in expenses every month. So I have enough to invest, you know, $1,000 or even $2,000 a month in insurance and investments. So I just kind of want to be able to pick your brain and see what you suggest.
Rob West Yeah. Well, I appreciate all that background and, you know, I appreciate the details there. I'd review your pension to make sure there isn't truly a survivor benefit option available. If there isn't, you know, then your goal of course is to replace that lost income in the most cost-effective way. Life insurance may be an option, although premiums at age 63 can be significant. I'd also look at whether you can build or earmark investment assets that would pass directly.
So, in terms of life insurance, if the cost is reasonable, obviously that would be an option. You could look at a permanent policy. In terms of building a dedicated portfolio for this purpose, I think could be obviously something that's really effective. I like the fact that he's got that special needs trust, so that would ensure that whatever assets you're able to accumulate don't jeopardize his eligibility for benefits. That's going to be obviously really key.
I think in terms of the house being paid off, that obviously is going to reduce your ongoing income needs, and with that surplus, I think you need to look at the premiums weighed against investing for that $2,000 a month. So I think I wouldn't automatically assume that life insurance is the best answer. I'd compare the cost of insurance with what a disciplined investing strategy could accomplish over time. If you're healthy and the premiums are reasonable, obviously a life insurance policy could provide an immediate estate for your family. But if those premiums are high, I think just consistently investing that amount each month for your spouse and your son's trust may be a better long-term strategy at the end of the day.
But let me stop there and just get your thoughts on that.
Mo Well, I'm kind of weighing those things out. I saw that Banner insurance—because I'm, you know, at the age of 63, I'm in really good health. So I looked at some options there and it seems like that could be an option. I just want to—you know, you don't know when the Lord's going to call you. So I'd love to have an investment strategy, but at the same time I'd like to be covered with some insurance at, you know, at least a million dollars so that the two of them can be, you know, protected. So I look at different insurances, and the one that pops out the most that's affordable and good reputation seems to be Banner, just keeps popping up all the time. So I'm just wondering, because there's so many different insurance companies out there that make claims, but you never know with the reputations that some of them have.
Rob West Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot, and I think Banner is known for having a fairly good A.M. Best rating and still being fairly cost-effective, so I think that could be a great option. You know, you could look at quotes for a million-dollar term policy or guaranteed universal life if you want that lifelong coverage, and then take the balance and invest that into a diversified portfolio, name the special needs trust as the beneficiary, and then review that plan every few years as your investments grow.
I would still compare it. I mean, Banner is a well-known insurer, but it's probably in this case good, especially with you being healthy, to have an independent insurance professional really go out across all the different highly rated companies and compare premiums, underwriting, policy guarantees, conversion options if it's term insurance, and then of course the financial strength ratings. Because the goal is ultimately to make sure you're buying the right coverage at a competitive price while continuing to build wealth through investing, and if we could time the two of those or kind of look at those in conjunction with one another, I think that would be ideal.
Mo Good, that's kind of what I was hoping I'd hear you say, and I'm glad to hear you say it. Yeah, I need to have them both. Yeah, I think that's the right way to go. I appreciate your time.
Rob West Do you have—absolutely, Mo. Do you have an insurance agent that you could reach out to on this?
Mo Yeah, yeah, I do.
Rob West Okay, good. Yeah, I think having somebody go out across the market and really look at a number of different companies and see where you can find that sweet spot, and then obviously if you get that policy that meets all of your goals with the right strength rating and a competitive premium, then hopefully you've got still quite a bit left where you can just be on a systematic basis socking that away and investing it for the future.
Hope that helps, Mo. It sounds like you're on the right track, my friend. Thanks for being on the program today. Lord bless you.
We're going to take a quick break and then come back with more questions right after this. Don't go anywhere.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West We're so glad you're along with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Our goal, our hope and prayer for you is that you would see God as your ultimate treasure as we explore God's word as it relates to money decisions. Let's go back to the phones. Carol is in Michigan. Carol, how can I help you?
Carol Hi, um, thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm 60 and my husband is 63. And right now we are living in, I guess what I call a money pit, and a house with a hill that we can't mow, and we feel like we're being forced to move out. Um, and we're going to be going into an apartment. Um, the issue is we have not a lot of money. We have, let's see, $36, about $3,600 between the two of us. Um, I get social security disability and and then also my husband's income. Um, our apartment would be something like $1,100 a month.
Um, when we sell our house, if we decide to do that, we'd be getting probably $240,000 after realtor expenses and all that. Um, and I guess I'm wondering a couple things, wondering about an annuity, if that's a good idea with an income level that much. And also, I talked to a fiduciary advisor who said he would be—he would charge like a 1.25% fee per year, um, to help us come up with a plan. So I'm just kind of wondering if either one of these things are a good idea, or or what we should do.
Rob West Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. And and the nice thing is when you get out of the house, you're calling the money pit and I understand how frustrating that can be and how expensive it is, you know, it's a great time for you to take a breath and formulate that plan moving forward as to what does your financial foundation look like? How do we make sure we have enough in emergency savings? How do we make sure we have a budget where we're living within our means?
Um, so you're not taking on any debt, but we're also prioritizing things like, in addition to just the monthly bills, you know, are we able to give regularly and at a level that we're happy with? Um, are we saving for the future? Uh, maybe you have a company plan at work or you could form your own retirement plan if you don't already have one, but are you putting something into it? And then, with the 240,000 that you would have net, I would probably not do anything right away until you know kind of what your future plans hold to the best of your ability. Because, for instance, um, you know, if you all decided, let's say in the next 3 years, you'd like to buy a home, well that's going to dramatically change what we do with the 240,000 versus you saying, no, we don't have any plans to buy another house in the next 5 plus years.
Um, you know, one of the downsides to the annuity is the money becomes illiquid, meaning that you can't access it without some significant surrender charges, at least in the early years of that annuity. Um, so although it can provide some guaranteed income and some guaranteed returns, there's a cost to guarantees, and the cost is going to come in the form of either illiquid, illiquidity, meaning you can't get to the money as I just said, or secondly, you're going to have to give up some of the upside.
On the other hand, the fiduciary that you talked about, which just simply means he's an advisor or she is that is legally obligated to put your interests above his or her own in terms of how they manage the money or the products they recommend, could manage this money for you, help you grow it, but also make sure you have access to it. However, if you think you want to get to this money in the next 5 years to buy a home, we don't want to invest it. We probably want to put it in things like money market and CDs because what if four and a half years from now the market heads down because we're in a recession and that portfolio that that fiduciary is managing for you is down 30%, and now all of a sudden you're trying to sell the stocks to buy a home, you could take a pretty significant loss.
And so that's why we need to match the investments to the time horizon. So, let me stop there and just kind of get your thoughts on maybe what the next 3 to 5 years holds in your mind.
Carol Okay, yeah, um, well we wouldn't be looking to buy another home because the house we have right now is quite old and it's, um, a couple realtors have already told us that if we bought anything smaller or, you know, I don't know, we'd have double taxes from what we have now, which we couldn't afford, and also we would have more problems because once the realtor's fees are taken out, we're going to have to buy a smaller home and or less expensive, I should say.
But so we're not we're not wanting to do that again, because that would be more problems. We're pretty much planning on staying in an apartment just because of the trust, and I'm on disability and I—my husband's not what you would call, um, a handyman. So I've been doing it, and I've been hurting myself doing it, and I just the stress of it's killing me, so I just feel like we have to get out. I can't take it anymore.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, I certainly appreciate that and and I guess, you know, given what you're describing here, I mean, I I don't want to make sure we make I'll make I want to make sure we don't get in what we call a binary trap where we say, you know, apartment or home that's dilapidated and needs a lot of work. You know, maybe there's a third option. Maybe there's a a townhouse that you buy that's a little newer, maybe a little smaller, but allows you to buy something that you could own, you know, that you would have a little more control over and you're not, you know, at the whim of whatever happens with the rent, uh, from your landlord, and you could have something that appreciates over time.
So I I just want to make sure that, yeah, I I think it sounds like you need to get out of this home, you all need to take a deep breath, get your financial footing under you, and, you know, you've you've got some stress that's built up and uh, you know, I I realize there's a, you know, a little bit of, uh, lingering effect to what you've been experiencing. But, you know, let's say you get to a better place and you all ready to buy something that's your own, again, maybe it's not a single-family home, maybe it's a townhome, um, you know, I just want to make sure that the investment strategy matches the possible plans you might have over the next 5 years, and that we don't get locked into something that could limit the, uh, decisions you can make in the future.
So, I think connecting with a certified kingdom advisor makes sense, to do some planning, figure out what your income sources are going to be in retirement, figure out how to to manage this 240,000 between now and whenever, you know, you decide if, in fact, apartment living is your long-term plan, you know, then this could be managed in such a way that maybe it becomes an income stream for you over time.
I mean, I I could see us reasonably pulling 5% a year, you know, which is 1,000 a month from the 240,000 that could supplement your disability or social security. And that could be a real blessing, and that's very possible with the right money manager who's prioritizing safety and income, but could also generate a reasonable rate of return for you.
So, um, I think you're right. I think the advisor is the next step. I just wouldn't lock this up in an insurance product given some of the uncertainties of what the future may hold.
Carol Okay, so kind of wait on thinking about an annuity and maybe invest in other things then?
Rob West I think that's right, and I think as a part of the planning process to determine what are your income sources in the future, what does your budget look like, where are you guys ultimately going to settle, is it something that you might buy that's smaller and and townhome, is it, you know, apartment living for the foreseeable future, then I think you can determine what investments to buy in the meantime.
I'd probably stay with things like CDs and money market. The good news is those things are paying 4 and 5% right now. That's a blessing. So you can have a high degree of safety, have predictable liquidity, still get a reasonable rate of return, and buy yourself some time so over the next 12 months, maybe you make that decision as to where you think the Lord may be leading you all, you know, longer term, 5 to 10 years plus.
Um, and that's where an advisor could really shine. Perhaps it's the one you know, maybe you find another to consider at find a cka.com, but I think in either case getting some professional counsel makes a lot of sense, and they can help you in managing the money. Carol, thanks for your call today. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Greetings and welcome with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Let's head to Texas. Linda, your next up, go right ahead.
Linda Hello. I'm calling because I'm trying to get a refund.
Rob West Okay.
Linda For my deceased, uh, my son who is deceased.
Rob West Yes, ma'am.
Linda I've been trying for two years. Um, I keep getting this form 1310 from the IRS.
Rob West Mm-hmm. Yes.
Linda And, uh, I've sent, uh, proof copy of the death certificate and everything, but still not getting it.
Rob West Mm-hmm.
Linda And one point they even told me they didn't have enough representatives trained to, uh, you know, handle the, uh, the, uh, refund because they didn't have it a few trained on how many, uh, people who are deceased. So I was just wondering if you could give me some advice on what to do today.
Rob West Yes, ma'am. Well, first of all, I'm so sorry to hear about his passing. And yeah, the the form that you're referring to is an important step, but it may not be the only requirement. The key question is whether you're legally authorized to receive the refund on behalf of his estate. Being his mother doesn't automatically make you entitled. Do you know whether that's clear?
Linda Well, the last time I talked to someone, and this was the first time in two years that I've been trying to get it, he did mention that, uh, on the port three where I check says, um, "Is the person claiming the refund for the descendants estate? Will you pay out the refund refund according to the laws of the state?" And then he said, "Well, that's where the problem is, uh, with his estate." Did you have proof, you know, that you are the one open for this estate? I said, "Well, we didn't have an estate."
Rob West Yes. And that's that's the job of the probate court. So normally what would happen here is the typical steps on this, Linda, would be, uh, you would file a final tax return, so that would be the 2024 tax return that indicates his passing and the date of death. And then the you would complete that form 1310 that you're referring to that tells the IRS who is claiming the refund on behalf of the deceased taxpayer. And then you would need to determine whether you are the court-appointed personal representative, and if it's not gone through probate or that process hasn't concluded, then that needs to be done because, uh, if you are, the IRS is going to need documentation of that appointment. If not, you still may qualify to claim the refund depending on the circumstances and the state law. Do you have a CPA that you've worked with in the past or or currently do?
Linda No, not a CPA. I do have a financial advisor, though.
Rob West Okay. Yeah, I would give this to your financial advisor and perhaps, uh, your advisor could connect you with a certified public accountant, somebody who could help you navigate this. It shouldn't be difficult. It really is just a matter of getting the documentation from the probate court to show that you are in fact the one who is to receive this, being able to provide that, um, completing this form, and then, you know, it's just going to take their normal processing time. But, um, there shouldn't be anything holding up the refund once this form is filed, once you provide the state estate documentation, and so long as that final return was filed, and that's where you made a tax professional get involved.
Linda Okay.
Rob West But I would go back to your advisor and have he or she help you navigate that, okay, Linda?
Linda Could I ask another question?
Rob West Yes, ma'am, of course.
Linda Uh, I've been trying to, um, get, uh, my mail. I'm having trouble getting mail delivered to him, especially, uh, like bank statements. And this morning I found, uh, on the internet a robot form where it says they were, uh, picked the password for you if you open the account online for the statements. Have you heard anything about this company, or do you think that would be okay?
Rob West I would be hesitant for you to proceed with something like that just because I don't know the source of that. So are you having trouble getting all mail, or is it just specifically related to one of the companies you do business with?
Linda No, it looked like anything that has financial, uh, like bank statement or credit union statement.
Rob West Hmm.
Linda I get them.
Rob West Okay. I I would talk to the Post Office about that, um, because there shouldn't be anything that would prohibit that specifically. Um, you know, if this is happening regularly, I would just talk to your mail carrier or go down to the local post office and ask if there's any delivery issues affecting your address. Um, but there, um, you know, in terms of there is a free service that allows you to preview images of incoming letters. It's called Informed Delivery. But there's nothing that should be stopping only, uh, you know, bank related information from coming to you. And I wouldn't complete a form online that you found. I would just be a little hesitant that that may be trying to, uh, grab your personal information.
Linda Well, I do have that Informed Delivery and that's how I know some of the statements are not getting to him because, you know, it'll show that I should get it, but when the mail is delivered, I'm not getting it.
Rob West I see. So I would go down to the local post office and let them know, I have informed delivery, I'm seeing these preview images, but they're not making it to me. Can you help sort out why that is? And they they would be the place for you to go.
Linda Okay.
Rob West All right. You're welcome. Lord bless you, Linda. Thank you for calling today. Uh, up to Illinois. Sarah, go ahead.
Sarah Hi. Um, I have a question about life insurance. Uh, lost my husband in January.
Rob West Hmm.
Sarah And, um, he did not leave me with adequate resources. And I have about $200,000 in repairs on buildings that needed to be done over the past 30 years that he didn't do. And I just found out that I have four life insurance policies, but I have no heirs. And I'm paying $6, $7,000 a year in premiums on these policies. And I'm wondering if I should just take the loss and cash them out.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't see it as a loss necessarily because it was offsetting a risk that existed potentially if you were bringing in household income that your family was relying on. In this case, it was just you and your husband. Um, but because you're now in your 70s, you uh don't have any heirs. You're not looking to offset a risk that exists. We would want to let that life insurance go because, to your point, you need that money for other things. Um, is that what the was this a term policy, or were these whole life policies?
Sarah They are whole life.
Rob West Okay. Do you know what the cash value is on those?
Sarah Um, each one is different and I just like one of them is for 50,000 and I think the cash value is like 26.
Rob West Okay.
Sarah And another one is a $25,000 policy and the cash value was 6,000.
Rob West Yeah.
Sarah So that's what I mean about taking the loss. I mean, it's just I don't think it'll even cover all the premiums that have been paid, but, I mean, $6,000 a year when I have, like, $200,000 in repairs on buildings to make.
Rob West Yeah.
Sarah That that's a nice little chunk of change, you know?
Rob West It sure is. Yeah, that would add up. So I think the steps here are first to determine if you still need the life insurance. Now, sound like it it you don't, because you're not trying to protect heirs or others in your family that would be placed in a difficult spot if you were to pass away. So then the next step is just to review every policy individually. Because these are whole life, we want to know what those cash value amounts are for each one. Um, and then you would essentially just tell them you want to cancel them, cash them out, you'll get the cash value back, the policies will be canceled at that point. And then you're going to recoup 500 a month, 6,000 a year, which will add up over time. But again, this is an unnecessary expense, especially given your other commitments.
Sarah Yes. Okay, that's you're confirming what I have come to the conclusion in the last 24 hours. It's like, why am I doing this?
Rob West Yeah. I completely concur. Uh Sarah, let's do this. I'm going to send you a copy of a book called Wise Women Managing Money. And I think it'll be a blessing to you. Um, Miriam Neff wrote this when her husband Bob passed away. She actually has a ministry called Widow Connection just to serve widows who are now placed in a position where they're managing the family finances. And this book was written for people just like you. And I think it'll be a blessing. We'll put it in the mail as our gift to you, okay?
Sarah Oh, okay. Thank you.
Rob West All right. Hang on the line. Uh, let's head to Missouri. Linda, go ahead.
Linda Uh, yes. Okay, I've been listening to your show for years and I really like it. And, I recently heard you talk about, uh, leaving an inheritance to your children while you leave while you're living.
Rob West Yeah.
Linda And that really sparked my interest. I I thought it was great.
Rob West Thank you.
Linda So I want to know what's the maximum amount I can, uh, give without it being taxable or IRS involved?
Rob West Yeah. Well, the good news here, Linda, and and I love this desire that you have to start given some of the inheritance now. Um, the good news is that your children won't owe federal income tax on the money you give them based on the current laws at least, regardless of the amount. You can give them up to $19,000 per child, but even then, you would just let the IRS know if you go beyond that and your lifetime federal exemption is $15 million. So unless you're going to give them quite a bit of money, you're not going to get anywhere close to that. Uh, so the good news is it's really just a function of how much do you need to live on for the rest of your life to maintain your lifestyle, but apart from that, you could certainly start passing this along to them while it may be a real blessing in this season of life. Uh, do you have an advisor that you work with?
Linda No, I don't.
Rob West Okay. Well, I would recommend you connect with a certified Kingdom advisor there in Missouri who can help you walk through this, but also think about the biblical perspective you've been hearing on this program. You can find a CKA in your area at findacka.com. And we'll send you a copy of our new field guide, How to Prepare the Next Steward that will help you create a plan for how much to give them now versus later and think about passing spiritual and character capital before financial capital. So hang on the line, we'll get that right out to you and thanks for your call today, Linda. Lord bless you. That's going to do it for us today, folks. Hey, if you want to support the program, consider becoming a FaithFi partner. You can do that when you head to faithfi.com/give. Partner support the ministry at $35 a month or $400 a year. We send you our magazine, all of our new studies and devotionals. It's a real blessing to us and thanks in advance. Big thanks to Devin, Taylor, Patty, Pat, and everybody here at FaithFi. We'll see you next time.
Proverbs 16:9 says, “The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.” Setting goals can be wise, but how do we pursue our ambitions without allowing success to define us? On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and bestselling author Jordan Raynor explore what it means to pursue meaningful goals with Christlike confidence, while trusting God with the results. Then, it’s on to calls.
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