Rob West: What if financial success isn't the destination, but simply the foundation for something greater? I am Rob West. We spend a lot of time thinking about how to earn, save, invest, and manage money wisely, but what happens when you've done those things well and still find yourself wondering, "Is there something more?" Today, Scott Highmark joins us to unpack The Significance Pyramid and show us how to move beyond success toward a life of lasting significance. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, our guest today is Scott Highmark, president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth, a Certified Kingdom Advisor, and author of The Significance Pyramid: Climb Beyond Success to Find Lasting Significance. And here's something you may not know: Scott was also a two-time Academic All-American basketball player at St. Louis University. Scott, great to have you with us.
Scott Highmark: Well, Rob, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here, and thanks for all you do in leading the Faith and Finance movement.
Rob West: Well, thank you. It's a privilege, and you as a Certified Kingdom Advisor are a huge part of that. Scott, in your book, you introduce what you call "The Significance Pyramid," a framework for moving beyond financial success toward purpose and generosity and ultimately to surrender to Christ. But you start by challenging a message our culture constantly reinforces: that more achievement and more income and more possessions will eventually bring satisfaction. Why does that promise fall short?
Scott Highmark: Well, I think most of us, myself included, for most of my life, have been addicted to the up-and-to-the-right chart, right? We've tried that, and, Rob, frankly, it just came up empty. And we're all pursuing something that we believe will ultimately satisfy us, whether it's money, achievement, status, recognition, or some other version of "more." But the problem is, it can give us a sense of accomplishment, but it doesn't bring that lasting fulfillment at a soul level. And even people who reach the very top of industry or whatever they're climbing often discover that the satisfaction that they expected to, it doesn't last. I love what Andy Stanley says: "Our appetites are never fully and finally satisfied." And we were created for something so much more beyond ourselves. And just, I know you and I believe that ultimately the longing we're trying to satisfy is only going to be met in a saving relationship with Jesus.
Rob West: Ah, boy, that is so well said. And I want to unpack this today by looking at The Significance Pyramid, but first, who's it for? You know, this really applies to everyone, regardless of their income, wealth, or circumstances, right?
Scott Highmark: It really does, but it kind of came about—my background in sports and athletics drew me. Every coach I played for, Rob, showed me John Wooden's Pyramid of Success. And if you're not familiar with John Wooden, 10 national championships at UCLA, arguably the best coach of all time, and he had this Pyramid of Success, a very famous framework. And there were 15 core attributes that Wooden said, if you had these things, you could get to the top of the pyramid of success. And it was things like friendship, loyalty, grit, determination, and perseverance—all those things. But at the very top of Wooden's Pyramid of Success was a word called—two words: "competitive greatness." And he defined competitive greatness by saying: "Being at your best when your best is required."
And I thought that was pretty great, but the longer I've lived, I've just realized there's got to be more than that. I've met a lot of people, and you have, too, that have reached, quote-unquote, "competitive greatness" as the world would define it, and they're very empty, and they're very sad, and they're not fulfilled. And so I just really felt like—it's an homage to Wooden's Pyramid of Success, but we need a different North Star and one that points beyond ourselves. And the actual literal word "significance" comes from the idea of making a sign. You think about "signify." And every life points somewhere. And so the question is, what is our life pointing towards? Is it pointing towards ourselves, or something outside of ourself that perhaps has more meaning and more purpose?
Rob West: Mm, boy, that's so helpful, and we're going to get in to and unpack The Significance Pyramid. We've got just 30 seconds before the break. Frame up then what you did building off that idea to create this.
Scott Highmark: The framework starts with stewardship, and it isn't dependent upon having a large income. It can apply to anybody. But it also starts with margin, not just financial margin, but financial margin does give us—it creates freedom to pursue the significant things of our life. And the goal isn't simply to become rich or wealthy. As you and I know, it's to become a faithful steward of what God has given us to continue to move toward a life of greater purpose and significance.
Rob West: Well, folks, right after this break, we're going to unpack The Significance Pyramid, this framework for moving beyond financial success toward purpose, generosity, and ultimately surrender to Christ. Scott Highmark here today. Much more to come just around the corner. Don't go anywhere; we're just getting started.
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Rob West: Success was never meant to be a final destination. The goal is to faithfully use what God has entrusted to us for a life of lasting significance. We talk about that each day on this program. Hi, I'm Rob West. With me today, my friend Scott Highmark. He's president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth, he's a Certified Kingdom Advisor, and he's the author of the new book The Significance Pyramid: Climb Beyond Success to Find Lasting Significance. And Scott, before the break, you were talking about this significance pyramid, and I want you to unpack it, and we're going to start at the foundation. You began talking about this before the break, but it's really about stewardship. So why is that the starting point, and what does faithful stewardship make possible?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, that's a great question. It's really about allocating all of our resources, including our time, our talent, and our treasure, and making sure that those are all in order. And it's understanding, including financial, but understanding what we have, where it's going, and living within our means. And my wife and I, we've been married for 30 years, and we still have this, I'll call it a discussion, about a budget. And I always tell her that a budget's actually freedom. And she says, "No, a budget's actually restrictive." And I said, "No, no, I'm trying to reframe this. And if we create a budget, it actually creates freedom because then we can spend and give generously and not have anxiety or guilt about what we should do." So even she and I still have that discussion after 30 years of marriage, but it does start with stewardship, and stewardship is essential. But it's just the foundation because once money isn't consuming so much of our attention, we can begin asking ourselves better questions and what we want those resources to accomplish. And I love that phrase that money can help fund our purpose, but it won't help us find our purpose. So there's another layer beyond that.
Rob West: Yeah, that's so true, and very well said. Let's move to that next level of the pyramid. It's what you call symmetry. What does that mean, and what does it look like in someone's financial life?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, you think about the word symmetry, it's symmetrical, it's an alignment. Alignment is really another word for it. It means aligning the way we actually live with the things that we say we value. And what breaks my heart, Rob, is that, and you and I have seen this so many times, is that when we meet people who say that their family, their faith, even giving, service, generosity are the most important things in their life, their marriage, but their calendar and their checkbooks don't line up. They tell a different story. And James 1 describes someone looking in the mirror and then walking away and forgetting what he looks like. And we should have that same kind of alignment between what we believe and how we live. We always talk about, do the words and the pictures of my life match up? And sometimes achieving that symmetry requires difficult changes. It's not easy, but there's a deep soul satisfaction in knowing that our life is in alignment with our values, and it takes hard work to get there.
Rob West: Yeah, and interestingly, money is one of those clearest indicators of what we value and where our priorities are because we vote with our wallet every day of the year, and so it really becomes very clearly seen. I know you share a story in the book about a client who realized the way he was living didn't actually reflect one of his deepest values, which was his family. Share that experience that you shared in the book.
Scott Highmark: Yeah, exactly. He was a high-level executive, traveled over 150 days a year, had children that were kind of getting close to the end of high school and going to be off in college, and they were going to become empty nesters. And financially, he didn't need to continue to work, but had the habit of just striving. It was so ingrained that he never seriously considered reordering his life in alignment with what he valued. And so just simply one day, I just asked him, "Why are you still working?" And I said, "You know, you watch a track meet, and there's a tape in a 100-yard dash, and whoever hits the tape first won the race. You hit the tape. You've won the financial race." And just challenged him, softly and gently, in a way that made him reconsider that, and he eventually walked away from his job, and he gained that time with his children and his ailing mother, and is now doing some ministry work. But it just started with simply asking him, "You say these things are the most important in your life, and yet you're not ordering your life in alignment with those values."
Rob West: Yeah, that's such an important and a convicting message, and a beautiful illustration of the role of a Certified Kingdom Advisor who understands both financial acumen and the technical side, but also the heart of God, scripture, and what really matters in our lives. Scott, let's move to level three of the significance pyramid, which is what you call self-satisfaction. That phrase might sound a little self-focused at first, but you're really getting at the idea of purpose and calling, aren't you?
Scott Highmark: That's exactly right. It's really about discovering the work that God created us to do uniquely, and intentionally stepping into it. I mean, the Bible talks about in Ephesians 2:10, "We are God's handiwork, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which He prepared in advance for us to do." And so we're called to contribute to this world and the next. And I love thinking about calling and will. I think about Henry Blackaby made that important distinction. He said we're asking the wrong question. Instead of asking the question, "What is God's will for my life? What does God want for me?" He said the better question is, "What is God's will, period?" And then, "Am I open to the idea of adjusting my life to join God in His will?" And this is where the focus begins shifting away from ourselves and towards God, towards His will, His design, and who He created us to be. But even that purpose and fulfillment you talked about in the question, that you can have purpose and personal fulfillment, but it's not the top of the pyramid because if our purpose ends with our own self-satisfaction, then it's ultimately about us, and we're ultimately going to be empty.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. That takes us to level four, which is significance. That's the goal, of course. What begins to change, Scott, when we move from personal fulfillment to living for something beyond ourselves?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, this is where the focus shifts, Rob, from really an internal focus to an outward focus. And the question changes from, "What makes me happy?" to "How can I use what I've been given? How can I be a steward of this to serve someone else?" It means being willing to sacrifice, to have less, perhaps, so that someone else can have more, or give something up for another person's good. And on the surface, most people listening to this might say, "Well, that sounds like a bad trade, Scott. Why would I do that?" But we learn through scripture that that's actually the abundant life, and it's the life that Jesus modeled for us. In Philippians 2, he talks about describing him as taking the nature of a servant, rather than to use his position for his own advantage. So if that's our model, then that's really what significance should be about: loving and serving others, even when it costs us something.
Rob West: Yeah. Now, we've got just about 45 seconds, but even once we reach the top of the pyramid with significance, you take this one step further to what we're ultimately after, and that's surrender, right?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, because even a generous, purposeful, others-focused life will fall short of what we were created for, and surrender goes beyond giving away your resources and surrendering all of ourselves. But it matters who we surrender to. And for me, the ultimate destination of the pyramid is surrendering all of my life to the Lord. And, you know, while I'm in the financial business, we talk about faith and finances a lot, but are we open to the idea of instead of internal rate of return, but an eternal rate of return? And I would just hope that this book could inspire people to move from fear to freedom, from worry to worship, and perhaps instead of chasing success, pursuing significance for the rest of their life.
Rob West: Wow, incredible! Folks, check it out today. You'll find it online at significancepyramid.com. That's significancepyramid.com. Scott, thanks for your time today.
Scott Highmark: Great to be with you, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Rob West: Our guest has been Scott Highmark, president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth. You'll find them online at mosaicwealth.com. He's also a CKA. All right, a quick break, and then back with our next segment here just around the corner. That number to call if you have questions today: 800-525-7000. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Great to have Scott, Scott Heimark, here with us today and what a phenomenal book. I would encourage you to pick it up wherever you buy books. Well, we want to turn the corner and take your questions today on anything financial. We've got lines open. The calls are coming in, but we would love to hear from you at 800-525-7000. Again, that number is 800-525-7000. We'd love to tackle your questions on giving, saving, spending, help you think about what's happening in your life through the lens of biblical wisdom. Again, that number: 800-525-7000.
In the news today, Warren Buffett is stepping down as chairman of Berkshire Hathaway. That is ending a role he's held since 1970. The 96-year-old Buffett, who retired as CEO at the end of last year, will remain on the company's board as chairman emeritus. His son, Howard Buffett, a Berkshire director since '93, will succeed him as chairman. In a letter to shareholders, Buffett pointed to both his age and his confidence in the new CEO, Greg Abel, saying Abel has exceeded his expectations since taking over the company. Known as the "Oracle of Omaha," Buffett transformed Berkshire from a struggling textile company into a diversified conglomerate that owns businesses like GEICO, Dairy Queen, Fruit of the Loom, and BNSF Railway, among others. Buffett also became one of the world's wealthiest investors and a major philanthropist. He's pledged that more than 99% of his wealth will eventually go to charitable causes. It's the end of an era as Warren Buffett steps down as chairman of Berkshire Hathaway.
Well, we're going to dive into your questions today. That number to call: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Kentucky. Clara, thank you for your call today. How can I help?
Clara: Yes, my question is about biblical support for how adult children care for their elderly parents. The support, of course, should be in all four areas, but for financial support, one of them believes that it should be equal—everyone should contribute regardless of their financial ability. So, should it be even, or should it be according to ability?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, but let's take a step back. I think scripture takes the responsibility to care for aging parents seriously, as the commandment to honor your father and mother has very strong implications for caring for them in elderly years. We also see in Mark 7, Jesus rebuked those who used Corban—dedicating resources to God—as a way of avoiding their responsibility to care for their father or mother. And then 1 Timothy 5:4 says that children and grandchildren should learn to make some return to their parents.
But that doesn't mean necessarily, in my view, that every adult must contribute an equal dollar amount. Families have different incomes, responsibilities, seasons of life. One child may have greater financial capacity while another may be raising young children or facing significant obligations of their own. So, I think in terms of shared responsibility according to ability, rather than simply dividing the cost equally.
I think scripture also tells us to provide for our own households in 1 Timothy 5:8, so caring for parents shouldn't require neglecting the legitimate needs of your spouse or children. And support doesn't always have to mean money. One sibling might contribute more financially while another provides transportation, or meals, or appointments, or just simply more time. So, I don't think the goal is mathematical equality. Jesus certainly—the Lord doesn't treat us equally, he entrusts us different amounts—and the goal is faithfulness to what we've been provided. So, I think it's for the family to prayerfully ask: how can each of us faithfully honor and care for our parents with what God has entrusted to us right now? Does that make sense though, Clara?
Clara: Yes, and part of the big issue is that one of the children has this in their culture: that the children do everything equal for their parents. And we both know there's nothing equal in this life except salvation. And this one, I certainly know that each child contributes differently to their parents, but still, it's in the culture that, especially financially, it has to be equal, you know?
Rob West: Yes, I totally understand.
Clara: I don't know how to get that out of her culture.
Rob West: Yeah, and that's a challenge, because that's kind of hardwired or embedded deeply in her. So, I would approach the child with relationship first, principle second. So, the goal is not to win the argument about fairness, but to help your adult child understand the difference between equality and unity. So, perhaps an approach is to start by affirming the child's heart: "I understand why you feel strongly that things should be equal, and it shows that you care about fairness and making sure nobody feels overlooked." That lowers the defensiveness when you take that posture.
But then, you shift the conversation from equal amounts to equal love and responsibility. And so you might say, "I think the question is not whether every child gives the same amount, but whether every child is honoring Mom and Dad in a meaningful way. Equality in dollars may not always be possible, but everyone can contribute in love and respect and care." And then I think you'd move to a biblical framework. You know, among the others that I mentioned, 2 Corinthians 8:12: "The gift is acceptable," Paul says, "according to what one has, not according to what one does not have." That's 2 Corinthians 8:12.
And then remember Romans 12: different members of one body have different roles and gifts. So you could say, "God doesn't give every person the same resources or responsibilities or abilities, but the Bible teaches we're one family. But we contribute differently. So, the goal is not identical outcomes; the goal is faithfulness." And I think that's really the key here. Does that make sense?
Clara: Oh, that's very good advice. I recorded most of this, and I'm—we're both praying that God will work in hearts. Like you said, that our relationship would be intact—
Rob West: That's right, and I'll be joining you in that prayer, Clara. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our final segment today, Jerry Bowyer stops by. It's a great time to have Jerry. It's always a good time to have Jerry, but this market really a roller coaster here with just everything going on. Treasury yields rising, uncertainty, big uncertainty in the Middle East, perhaps moving toward something, although just given the pattern of this on-again, off-again peace deal, no reason to think this time's going to be any different. Lord willing, it will be, but we've got oil constraints, we've got the midterms coming up, we've got just a war that seems really unending, at least at the moment, in the Middle East. Jerry can help us make sense of it all, not to mention a Fed rate increase this week and the market reacting positively. We'll get his take on all of that in the final segment today.
In the meantime, taking your calls and questions at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you. Let's go to Ohio. Philip, how can I help?
Phillip: Yes, sir. I recently retired and had to go through a financial group, Aspire Financial Group, and I wanted to put the funds in a faith-based company, and I wonder, can I roll over what's in this Aspire company without taking a tax hit?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Well, what kind of structure is it? Did you say it's a qualified annuity?
Phillip: Yes.
Rob West: Okay. So, I mean, you should be able to roll this into an IRA, an individual retirement account, and not have any tax implications. You'd certainly want to check on that with the company and maybe run it by your CPA. But the IRA is going to give you the most flexibility—you're also going to need to check surrender charges and any kind of penalties you might face—but the IRA's going to give you the most flexibility in terms of the investment mix, which would then open up the faith-based investing options. So, you know, that would allow you to, you know, invest in a company like Eventide, or GuideStone, or OneAscent, or Timothy Plan, one of the faith-based investing providers that, you know, through their mix of ETFs, you know, could allow you to build a really compelling portfolio that absolutely has the faith screens.
You could also hire an advisor to do that for you if you didn't want to have to build that portfolio yourself. And if you go to findacacka.com—findacacka.com—when you select investments, it'll ask you, "Do you want CKAs that do traditional or faith-based investing?" And if you choose faith-based investing, you'll only see CKAs that can offer that type of portfolio. And then you'd have somebody that you can meet with, get to know you, your goals, your objectives, where God's taking you, and then ultimately build a portfolio that, you know, honors your convictions and your values as a Christ-follower.
Phillip: Okay. All right, thank you very much.
Rob West: Yeah, you're welcome, Philip. Again, that website: findacacka.com. And that Certified Kingdom Advisor could also help you evaluate the product you have and make sure you understand the implications of, you know, rolling it out, assuming it is, in fact, a qualified annuity and you have the ability to roll it to an IRA. They could help you assess that, but also determine, you know, what surrender charges could be applicable there. You'd want to certainly be aware of that. Hey, Lord bless you. Thanks for being on the program today.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today as you apply God's wisdom from the Bible, the principles we see in those 2,350 verses, to the financial decisions you are making right now as you give, save, as you spend, that's your lifestyle, your giving, your investing, and your savings. Because here's the reality: we know as we think about money, it can be a tool or it can be a treasure. We want it to be a tool. That's really the right perspective. We understand God owns it all. It belongs to Him. It's a good gift from Him.
I think anything that comes from the hand of God starts good until it's not, because in a fallen world, we can worship the creation over the Creator. That's completely wrong. We need to be careful there. Money has a way of rivaling God in our hearts like very few other things. But if we have it as a tool, now all of a sudden it becomes a powerful force for good as we share the Gospel, and as we protect the vulnerable, and as we love our neighbor, and as we build up the church, and as we enjoy it to make memories with our families, and as we provide and, you know, put food on the table. I mean, that's the right posture toward money as a tool that does incredible good.
Now, if it becomes a treasure in our life, well, that's a real problem, because that means it's something that we try to ascribe value to that it was never intended to provide—meaning we're looking for money to provide significance, or to provide identity, or to provide security that ultimately belongs to God. And money will leave us empty in those things every time. When it becomes a treasure, it's a real problem. Remember, though, Matthew 6 said you can't serve God and money. So we need to be careful there. We need to be on our guard. We can't, as the Apostle Paul says, put our hope in the uncertainty of riches.
So we need to be careful there. If we look in Mark 4, we see the parable of the sower. What choked the word out from bearing a 30-, 60-, 100-fold return? Well, it was the deceitfulness of riches, the desires for other things, the cares of this world. But where can money be a powerful tool? Well, we see that on display in God's Word as well. We see it with Joseph, who put aside a fifth, 20%, of everything that came in during the seven years of abundance. We see Boaz along the fringes of his property, around the outside, managing his field, what God had entrusted to him, with generosity and with margin, so that those in need could glean from around the sides and have something to take advantage of. Well, that was the way Boaz postured himself.
And so there's an example where money is a tool, and we can use it for God's glory and for the service and love of others. Think about that today. So often—well, in just about every case, our culture gets that wrong. We need to go back to a biblical worldview, and that's what we want to affirm each day on this program.
All right, let's head to Mississippi. Hi, Gail. How can I help you?
Gail: Yes, thank you so much for taking my call. My husband and I lived off of one income. He is a construction builder; he has his own business. But we have spent the last 20 years homeschooling our children, and now we're in our 50s. We don't have retirement because we put every resource towards that. And now we spend more time paying money, everything that we make pretty much, to the government on taxes. We don't have retirement, and we need some kind of direction. And I wondered if you had any thoughts about that.
Rob West: Yeah. So what is the status of your income and expenses right now? Because your most powerful wealth-building tool, Gail, is going to be the income you have. And I realize during that busy season of life where we're raising a family and educating our kids, and, you know, just trying to do all the things, that's really challenging. Is this a season where you have some margin where you could start funneling, hopefully, large percentages of income into long-term savings?
Gail: Well, if we could get to a point where right now it's like we are told that we need to buy things so that we have things to write off, but then...
Rob West: I see. Let's do this: hang on the line, we'll pick it up right after the break. I've got to hit this break, but we'll be right back. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Well, Jerry Bowyer will join us here in just a moment. We'll get his take on the economy, all these crosscurrents we've got going on right now with the Fed, interest rates, Iran, oil, and bond yields, trying to make sense of it all. We'll do that straight ahead.
Before the break, we were talking to Gail in Mississippi. She and her husband are in their mid-50s; they homeschooled for 18 years. They lived off her husband's income alone—he has a construction business. Just given the realities and expenses of life, they have not been able to put much aside for retirement. She's wanting to make up for lost time, feels like they're paying a lot in taxes right now, and just wondering where she goes from here.
You know, I think the key right now is: how do we intentionally build margin and a retirement plan from this point? Because you still have time, and I think, clearly, your income is your most powerful wealth-building tool right now. But you need to have a clear picture of where you are and what levers you can pull.
So, you need to start with an understanding—for your husband and you together—of the business and the cash flow. Is it profitable? How much is he paying himself for your household? What business structure does he have? What does monthly spending look like? A lot of small business owners feel like taxes are the problem, which you mentioned a moment ago, but often the bigger issue is there's no structured retirement plan or tax strategy.
Taxes are symptomatic of income, but planning matters. So, we need to make sure that we have some retirement options available, and there are some for self-employed business owners. You could use the SEP IRA, which allows you to put away quite a bit of money, reduce taxes because you get the deduction as it goes in, and you all could really try to push large sums of money for these next 10 or 20 years into a retirement plan that could be invested and grow over time. That would help to lower tax liability, increase the amount going into long-term savings, and then with the compounded growth through the investments, you could build something that would serve as a nice little nest egg that you could have alongside Social Security in retirement.
So, I think the key is we just need to evaluate the health and the cash flow of the business, get a retirement plan in place, and then really focus on limiting lifestyle so we can take as much margin and put it into that retirement plan as possible. The more you put in, the more you'll save on your taxes because you're lowering your taxable income, which is really significant, especially as a self-employed business owner where you're paying both sides of the tax.
The other thing is just make sure the business is structured properly so he's taking some of this income as a distribution and not all as salary, because that has tax advantages as well. Does that make sense, though, Gail?
Gail: Well, and I guess my question is, is there someone you would recommend who could help us with this? Because it is a little confusing about understanding—and correct me if I'm wrong—that when you put it into an IRA, it doesn't come off the final amount of your money that you've made? It's only a portion, so you really don't get like this huge tax write-off?
Rob West: Well, not entirely. It comes from the business income you earned. So, for a self-employed person like a construction business owner, the business earns money, the owner calculates eligible compensation (which is the net self-employment income), and then the business can make a SEP IRA contribution on behalf of the owner. That's tax-deductible to the business, which reduces the taxable income. Then you can make your own contribution as well.
So, let's say the business had profit of $150,000, the owner contributes $20,000 to a SEP IRA, and the taxable business income then could be reduced by that contribution. So that's going to lower the overall amount of taxable income that's there.
But I agree, I think you do need an advisor, somebody who can help you set this up, evaluate the business, and help get a plan in place, as well as manage the money as it goes in. So let me direct you to our website, findacka.com. That's findacka.com, and you can find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area there in Mississippi. I would say getting that appointment is probably a high priority. Gail, I appreciate your call today, and I hope that gives you a few things to think about. Lord bless you.
Rob West: Well, Jerry Bowyer is here. Jerry, a lot going on in these markets. Where do you want to start today? So many crosscurrents, aren't there?
Jerry Bowyer: Well, I mean, there's the Fed meeting, which is really important because that's the biggest investor in the world, and then there's the signaling about where the Fed—you know, how the Fed's going to meet. There was the higher-than-expected inflation numbers. I mean, we've had 65 months in a row of inflation that's higher than the Fed's target.
And I know that the President—you know, the President called the Fed Chairman. We don't know exactly what they talked about. I think I can basically guess what a lot of the conversation was. The President wants the Fed to lower rates. Just to be clear, lowering rates just means print more money. And I just don't understand—and some conservatives line up behind that—I just do not understand how after 65 months in a row of inflation, not just above zero, but above the Fed's target rate (which is 2.5%), we would be talking about increasing the money supply. But that's kind of where we are.
Now, the Fed held tough this week and they raised rates, meaning they shrunk the money supply a little bit. But here's the problem: they use easy money to try to stimulate the economy. It doesn't really work, but it does push markets up. So markets are down this week. But to the degree that markets are down because they were artificially inflated with easy money—well, I mean, I'm in markets, I like it when it goes up, I don't like it when it goes down—but I want it to go up for good reasons. I don't want it to just get goosed by easy money, and that's not a sustainable strategy for a bull market anyway.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. Jerry, where does oil fit into all this? It seems like that situation is just continuing to deteriorate, especially now with some of these pipelines closed.
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, pipelines closed, and more than one strait closed now. We were all focusing on the Iranians and the Strait of Hormuz, but there's also the Houthis. So, I mean, there's a real problem here.
This war—I can't imagine that this is how the President thought it would go. And maybe some of his advisors thought it would go this way, but those weren't the advisors that he listened to. So that just feeds into the economic problem. Because if you have oil interruptions, you have higher oil prices; and if you have higher oil prices, then you have higher prices in general, because oil is one of the drivers of prices.
And when the economy is slowing down, that also causes inflation, because inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. Well, that's the "too few goods". So the trade war aspect of things—especially a trade war with Canada, which is a really close trading partner, especially with energy, but with other very important commodities—then there's a lot of pressure on the economy.
So, Jerry, are you saying it's all terrible? No, I'm not. The American economy is incredibly resilient. The President's general economic program of lower taxes and deregulation has powerful, genuinely stimulative effects—not goosing the economy, but strengthening the economy.
And so, I think we can avoid a recession for the reasons that I just gave, plus we happen to be in a moment where there's a new technology that's developed: LLMs (Large Language Models), we call it AI. There's different kinds: there's LLMs, but there's also world models, which is helping with manufacturing, and there's other research models. Something important is going on in the technological history of our country.
By the way, it's not a transformation of the human race, it's not a god, it's not a devil—it's a product. It's a software product. Everyone needs to maybe breathe into a paper bag for a little while here. It's not going to destroy us. There is no successor species to humans other than resurrected humans.
Now, there's been a lot of conversation this week, some of which I found helpful. There was like a freak-out earlier in the year: "Oh, it's going to kill us all, let's stop developing it!" And some of the more responsible business people came out and said, "You know what, Anthropic, if that product isn't safe, keep working on it until you can ship it. This is what we always do with products." If a pharmaceutical company is working on a drug and thinks, "Oh, we think it might cure cancer, but it might cause cancer, we don't know yet," what do you do? You don't say, "Let's shut down pharmaceutical firms," you say, "Let's do clinical testing, let's work on it, and make sure that it's helpful and safe."
So, I think the idea that we need to completely regulate it or just put the brakes on it—that's silly. When you have a product that isn't safe, what do you do? Do you stop working on it? No, you work on it more, but you don't ship it.
And so, I think that's been a helpful conversation for AI this week, in that we're not going to put it under the control of regulators, which might really just be a way that the ones who have already arrived want to cut off competition from the up-and-comers.
So that's another thing that's driving our economic growth. I would say half our GDP or more is now coming from the contribution from AI. So that's something on our side. We have things against us, we have things for us, and I'd say the things for us are a little bit more than the things against us. Of course, "If God is for us, who can be against us?" But that's a different conversation. In economics, what we have is a mixture of good policies and a moment in history of technological advance, and we have some bad policies, which are largely unforced errors, and those are wrestling with one another.
The Fed has to kind of say, "How do we deal with that?" And I think Warsh said, "You know what? I'm just going to try to fight inflation. I'm just going to do the one job: preserve the power of the dollar. It's not my job to make the economy or the people feel good; it's my job to keep prices stable."
Rob West: Yeah, wow. Jerry, really helpful flyover of where we are at this moment. Thanks for your insights, as always.
Jerry Bowyer: My pleasure. God bless.
Rob West: All right, that's Jerry Bowyer, our resident economist, joining us each Friday in this segment. Boy, we always learn several things when Jerry is here.
Folks, thanks for being along with us today. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devin, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this show possible. And you—we can't do this without you. In fact, FaithFi is listener-supported, and we're so thankful for so many of you who are our partners. If you'd like to become a partner, a regular supporter of the ministry, or make a one-time gift, just head to faithfi.com/give. It's huge; it's a big support to us: faithfi.com/give. Then come back and join us next week; we'll see you then. Bye-bye.
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Rob West: What if financial success isn't the destination, but simply the foundation for something greater? I am Rob West. We spend a lot of time thinking about how to earn, save, invest, and manage money wisely, but what happens when you've done those things well and still find yourself wondering, "Is there something more?" Today, Scott Highmark joins us to unpack The Significance Pyramid and show us how to move beyond success toward a life of lasting significance. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, our guest today is Scott Highmark, president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth, a Certified Kingdom Advisor, and author of The Significance Pyramid: Climb Beyond Success to Find Lasting Significance. And here's something you may not know: Scott was also a two-time Academic All-American basketball player at St. Louis University. Scott, great to have you with us.
Scott Highmark: Well, Rob, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here, and thanks for all you do in leading the Faith and Finance movement.
Rob West: Well, thank you. It's a privilege, and you as a Certified Kingdom Advisor are a huge part of that. Scott, in your book, you introduce what you call "The Significance Pyramid," a framework for moving beyond financial success toward purpose and generosity and ultimately to surrender to Christ. But you start by challenging a message our culture constantly reinforces: that more achievement and more income and more possessions will eventually bring satisfaction. Why does that promise fall short?
Scott Highmark: Well, I think most of us, myself included, for most of my life, have been addicted to the up-and-to-the-right chart, right? We've tried that, and, Rob, frankly, it just came up empty. And we're all pursuing something that we believe will ultimately satisfy us, whether it's money, achievement, status, recognition, or some other version of "more." But the problem is, it can give us a sense of accomplishment, but it doesn't bring that lasting fulfillment at a soul level. And even people who reach the very top of industry or whatever they're climbing often discover that the satisfaction that they expected to, it doesn't last. I love what Andy Stanley says: "Our appetites are never fully and finally satisfied." And we were created for something so much more beyond ourselves. And just, I know you and I believe that ultimately the longing we're trying to satisfy is only going to be met in a saving relationship with Jesus.
Rob West: Ah, boy, that is so well said. And I want to unpack this today by looking at The Significance Pyramid, but first, who's it for? You know, this really applies to everyone, regardless of their income, wealth, or circumstances, right?
Scott Highmark: It really does, but it kind of came about—my background in sports and athletics drew me. Every coach I played for, Rob, showed me John Wooden's Pyramid of Success. And if you're not familiar with John Wooden, 10 national championships at UCLA, arguably the best coach of all time, and he had this Pyramid of Success, a very famous framework. And there were 15 core attributes that Wooden said, if you had these things, you could get to the top of the pyramid of success. And it was things like friendship, loyalty, grit, determination, and perseverance—all those things. But at the very top of Wooden's Pyramid of Success was a word called—two words: "competitive greatness." And he defined competitive greatness by saying: "Being at your best when your best is required."
And I thought that was pretty great, but the longer I've lived, I've just realized there's got to be more than that. I've met a lot of people, and you have, too, that have reached, quote-unquote, "competitive greatness" as the world would define it, and they're very empty, and they're very sad, and they're not fulfilled. And so I just really felt like—it's an homage to Wooden's Pyramid of Success, but we need a different North Star and one that points beyond ourselves. And the actual literal word "significance" comes from the idea of making a sign. You think about "signify." And every life points somewhere. And so the question is, what is our life pointing towards? Is it pointing towards ourselves, or something outside of ourself that perhaps has more meaning and more purpose?
Rob West: Mm, boy, that's so helpful, and we're going to get in to and unpack The Significance Pyramid. We've got just 30 seconds before the break. Frame up then what you did building off that idea to create this.
Scott Highmark: The framework starts with stewardship, and it isn't dependent upon having a large income. It can apply to anybody. But it also starts with margin, not just financial margin, but financial margin does give us—it creates freedom to pursue the significant things of our life. And the goal isn't simply to become rich or wealthy. As you and I know, it's to become a faithful steward of what God has given us to continue to move toward a life of greater purpose and significance.
Rob West: Well, folks, right after this break, we're going to unpack The Significance Pyramid, this framework for moving beyond financial success toward purpose, generosity, and ultimately surrender to Christ. Scott Highmark here today. Much more to come just around the corner. Don't go anywhere; we're just getting started.
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Rob West: Success was never meant to be a final destination. The goal is to faithfully use what God has entrusted to us for a life of lasting significance. We talk about that each day on this program. Hi, I'm Rob West. With me today, my friend Scott Highmark. He's president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth, he's a Certified Kingdom Advisor, and he's the author of the new book The Significance Pyramid: Climb Beyond Success to Find Lasting Significance. And Scott, before the break, you were talking about this significance pyramid, and I want you to unpack it, and we're going to start at the foundation. You began talking about this before the break, but it's really about stewardship. So why is that the starting point, and what does faithful stewardship make possible?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, that's a great question. It's really about allocating all of our resources, including our time, our talent, and our treasure, and making sure that those are all in order. And it's understanding, including financial, but understanding what we have, where it's going, and living within our means. And my wife and I, we've been married for 30 years, and we still have this, I'll call it a discussion, about a budget. And I always tell her that a budget's actually freedom. And she says, "No, a budget's actually restrictive." And I said, "No, no, I'm trying to reframe this. And if we create a budget, it actually creates freedom because then we can spend and give generously and not have anxiety or guilt about what we should do." So even she and I still have that discussion after 30 years of marriage, but it does start with stewardship, and stewardship is essential. But it's just the foundation because once money isn't consuming so much of our attention, we can begin asking ourselves better questions and what we want those resources to accomplish. And I love that phrase that money can help fund our purpose, but it won't help us find our purpose. So there's another layer beyond that.
Rob West: Yeah, that's so true, and very well said. Let's move to that next level of the pyramid. It's what you call symmetry. What does that mean, and what does it look like in someone's financial life?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, you think about the word symmetry, it's symmetrical, it's an alignment. Alignment is really another word for it. It means aligning the way we actually live with the things that we say we value. And what breaks my heart, Rob, is that, and you and I have seen this so many times, is that when we meet people who say that their family, their faith, even giving, service, generosity are the most important things in their life, their marriage, but their calendar and their checkbooks don't line up. They tell a different story. And James 1 describes someone looking in the mirror and then walking away and forgetting what he looks like. And we should have that same kind of alignment between what we believe and how we live. We always talk about, do the words and the pictures of my life match up? And sometimes achieving that symmetry requires difficult changes. It's not easy, but there's a deep soul satisfaction in knowing that our life is in alignment with our values, and it takes hard work to get there.
Rob West: Yeah, and interestingly, money is one of those clearest indicators of what we value and where our priorities are because we vote with our wallet every day of the year, and so it really becomes very clearly seen. I know you share a story in the book about a client who realized the way he was living didn't actually reflect one of his deepest values, which was his family. Share that experience that you shared in the book.
Scott Highmark: Yeah, exactly. He was a high-level executive, traveled over 150 days a year, had children that were kind of getting close to the end of high school and going to be off in college, and they were going to become empty nesters. And financially, he didn't need to continue to work, but had the habit of just striving. It was so ingrained that he never seriously considered reordering his life in alignment with what he valued. And so just simply one day, I just asked him, "Why are you still working?" And I said, "You know, you watch a track meet, and there's a tape in a 100-yard dash, and whoever hits the tape first won the race. You hit the tape. You've won the financial race." And just challenged him, softly and gently, in a way that made him reconsider that, and he eventually walked away from his job, and he gained that time with his children and his ailing mother, and is now doing some ministry work. But it just started with simply asking him, "You say these things are the most important in your life, and yet you're not ordering your life in alignment with those values."
Rob West: Yeah, that's such an important and a convicting message, and a beautiful illustration of the role of a Certified Kingdom Advisor who understands both financial acumen and the technical side, but also the heart of God, scripture, and what really matters in our lives. Scott, let's move to level three of the significance pyramid, which is what you call self-satisfaction. That phrase might sound a little self-focused at first, but you're really getting at the idea of purpose and calling, aren't you?
Scott Highmark: That's exactly right. It's really about discovering the work that God created us to do uniquely, and intentionally stepping into it. I mean, the Bible talks about in Ephesians 2:10, "We are God's handiwork, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which He prepared in advance for us to do." And so we're called to contribute to this world and the next. And I love thinking about calling and will. I think about Henry Blackaby made that important distinction. He said we're asking the wrong question. Instead of asking the question, "What is God's will for my life? What does God want for me?" He said the better question is, "What is God's will, period?" And then, "Am I open to the idea of adjusting my life to join God in His will?" And this is where the focus begins shifting away from ourselves and towards God, towards His will, His design, and who He created us to be. But even that purpose and fulfillment you talked about in the question, that you can have purpose and personal fulfillment, but it's not the top of the pyramid because if our purpose ends with our own self-satisfaction, then it's ultimately about us, and we're ultimately going to be empty.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. That takes us to level four, which is significance. That's the goal, of course. What begins to change, Scott, when we move from personal fulfillment to living for something beyond ourselves?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, this is where the focus shifts, Rob, from really an internal focus to an outward focus. And the question changes from, "What makes me happy?" to "How can I use what I've been given? How can I be a steward of this to serve someone else?" It means being willing to sacrifice, to have less, perhaps, so that someone else can have more, or give something up for another person's good. And on the surface, most people listening to this might say, "Well, that sounds like a bad trade, Scott. Why would I do that?" But we learn through scripture that that's actually the abundant life, and it's the life that Jesus modeled for us. In Philippians 2, he talks about describing him as taking the nature of a servant, rather than to use his position for his own advantage. So if that's our model, then that's really what significance should be about: loving and serving others, even when it costs us something.
Rob West: Yeah. Now, we've got just about 45 seconds, but even once we reach the top of the pyramid with significance, you take this one step further to what we're ultimately after, and that's surrender, right?
Scott Highmark: Yeah, because even a generous, purposeful, others-focused life will fall short of what we were created for, and surrender goes beyond giving away your resources and surrendering all of ourselves. But it matters who we surrender to. And for me, the ultimate destination of the pyramid is surrendering all of my life to the Lord. And, you know, while I'm in the financial business, we talk about faith and finances a lot, but are we open to the idea of instead of internal rate of return, but an eternal rate of return? And I would just hope that this book could inspire people to move from fear to freedom, from worry to worship, and perhaps instead of chasing success, pursuing significance for the rest of their life.
Rob West: Wow, incredible! Folks, check it out today. You'll find it online at significancepyramid.com. That's significancepyramid.com. Scott, thanks for your time today.
Scott Highmark: Great to be with you, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Rob West: Our guest has been Scott Highmark, president and co-founder of Mosaic Wealth. You'll find them online at mosaicwealth.com. He's also a CKA. All right, a quick break, and then back with our next segment here just around the corner. That number to call if you have questions today: 800-525-7000. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Great to have Scott, Scott Heimark, here with us today and what a phenomenal book. I would encourage you to pick it up wherever you buy books. Well, we want to turn the corner and take your questions today on anything financial. We've got lines open. The calls are coming in, but we would love to hear from you at 800-525-7000. Again, that number is 800-525-7000. We'd love to tackle your questions on giving, saving, spending, help you think about what's happening in your life through the lens of biblical wisdom. Again, that number: 800-525-7000.
In the news today, Warren Buffett is stepping down as chairman of Berkshire Hathaway. That is ending a role he's held since 1970. The 96-year-old Buffett, who retired as CEO at the end of last year, will remain on the company's board as chairman emeritus. His son, Howard Buffett, a Berkshire director since '93, will succeed him as chairman. In a letter to shareholders, Buffett pointed to both his age and his confidence in the new CEO, Greg Abel, saying Abel has exceeded his expectations since taking over the company. Known as the "Oracle of Omaha," Buffett transformed Berkshire from a struggling textile company into a diversified conglomerate that owns businesses like GEICO, Dairy Queen, Fruit of the Loom, and BNSF Railway, among others. Buffett also became one of the world's wealthiest investors and a major philanthropist. He's pledged that more than 99% of his wealth will eventually go to charitable causes. It's the end of an era as Warren Buffett steps down as chairman of Berkshire Hathaway.
Well, we're going to dive into your questions today. That number to call: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Kentucky. Clara, thank you for your call today. How can I help?
Clara: Yes, my question is about biblical support for how adult children care for their elderly parents. The support, of course, should be in all four areas, but for financial support, one of them believes that it should be equal—everyone should contribute regardless of their financial ability. So, should it be even, or should it be according to ability?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, but let's take a step back. I think scripture takes the responsibility to care for aging parents seriously, as the commandment to honor your father and mother has very strong implications for caring for them in elderly years. We also see in Mark 7, Jesus rebuked those who used Corban—dedicating resources to God—as a way of avoiding their responsibility to care for their father or mother. And then 1 Timothy 5:4 says that children and grandchildren should learn to make some return to their parents.
But that doesn't mean necessarily, in my view, that every adult must contribute an equal dollar amount. Families have different incomes, responsibilities, seasons of life. One child may have greater financial capacity while another may be raising young children or facing significant obligations of their own. So, I think in terms of shared responsibility according to ability, rather than simply dividing the cost equally.
I think scripture also tells us to provide for our own households in 1 Timothy 5:8, so caring for parents shouldn't require neglecting the legitimate needs of your spouse or children. And support doesn't always have to mean money. One sibling might contribute more financially while another provides transportation, or meals, or appointments, or just simply more time. So, I don't think the goal is mathematical equality. Jesus certainly—the Lord doesn't treat us equally, he entrusts us different amounts—and the goal is faithfulness to what we've been provided. So, I think it's for the family to prayerfully ask: how can each of us faithfully honor and care for our parents with what God has entrusted to us right now? Does that make sense though, Clara?
Clara: Yes, and part of the big issue is that one of the children has this in their culture: that the children do everything equal for their parents. And we both know there's nothing equal in this life except salvation. And this one, I certainly know that each child contributes differently to their parents, but still, it's in the culture that, especially financially, it has to be equal, you know?
Rob West: Yes, I totally understand.
Clara: I don't know how to get that out of her culture.
Rob West: Yeah, and that's a challenge, because that's kind of hardwired or embedded deeply in her. So, I would approach the child with relationship first, principle second. So, the goal is not to win the argument about fairness, but to help your adult child understand the difference between equality and unity. So, perhaps an approach is to start by affirming the child's heart: "I understand why you feel strongly that things should be equal, and it shows that you care about fairness and making sure nobody feels overlooked." That lowers the defensiveness when you take that posture.
But then, you shift the conversation from equal amounts to equal love and responsibility. And so you might say, "I think the question is not whether every child gives the same amount, but whether every child is honoring Mom and Dad in a meaningful way. Equality in dollars may not always be possible, but everyone can contribute in love and respect and care." And then I think you'd move to a biblical framework. You know, among the others that I mentioned, 2 Corinthians 8:12: "The gift is acceptable," Paul says, "according to what one has, not according to what one does not have." That's 2 Corinthians 8:12.
And then remember Romans 12: different members of one body have different roles and gifts. So you could say, "God doesn't give every person the same resources or responsibilities or abilities, but the Bible teaches we're one family. But we contribute differently. So, the goal is not identical outcomes; the goal is faithfulness." And I think that's really the key here. Does that make sense?
Clara: Oh, that's very good advice. I recorded most of this, and I'm—we're both praying that God will work in hearts. Like you said, that our relationship would be intact—
Rob West: That's right, and I'll be joining you in that prayer, Clara. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our final segment today, Jerry Bowyer stops by. It's a great time to have Jerry. It's always a good time to have Jerry, but this market really a roller coaster here with just everything going on. Treasury yields rising, uncertainty, big uncertainty in the Middle East, perhaps moving toward something, although just given the pattern of this on-again, off-again peace deal, no reason to think this time's going to be any different. Lord willing, it will be, but we've got oil constraints, we've got the midterms coming up, we've got just a war that seems really unending, at least at the moment, in the Middle East. Jerry can help us make sense of it all, not to mention a Fed rate increase this week and the market reacting positively. We'll get his take on all of that in the final segment today.
In the meantime, taking your calls and questions at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you. Let's go to Ohio. Philip, how can I help?
Phillip: Yes, sir. I recently retired and had to go through a financial group, Aspire Financial Group, and I wanted to put the funds in a faith-based company, and I wonder, can I roll over what's in this Aspire company without taking a tax hit?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Well, what kind of structure is it? Did you say it's a qualified annuity?
Phillip: Yes.
Rob West: Okay. So, I mean, you should be able to roll this into an IRA, an individual retirement account, and not have any tax implications. You'd certainly want to check on that with the company and maybe run it by your CPA. But the IRA is going to give you the most flexibility—you're also going to need to check surrender charges and any kind of penalties you might face—but the IRA's going to give you the most flexibility in terms of the investment mix, which would then open up the faith-based investing options. So, you know, that would allow you to, you know, invest in a company like Eventide, or GuideStone, or OneAscent, or Timothy Plan, one of the faith-based investing providers that, you know, through their mix of ETFs, you know, could allow you to build a really compelling portfolio that absolutely has the faith screens.
You could also hire an advisor to do that for you if you didn't want to have to build that portfolio yourself. And if you go to findacacka.com—findacacka.com—when you select investments, it'll ask you, "Do you want CKAs that do traditional or faith-based investing?" And if you choose faith-based investing, you'll only see CKAs that can offer that type of portfolio. And then you'd have somebody that you can meet with, get to know you, your goals, your objectives, where God's taking you, and then ultimately build a portfolio that, you know, honors your convictions and your values as a Christ-follower.
Phillip: Okay. All right, thank you very much.
Rob West: Yeah, you're welcome, Philip. Again, that website: findacacka.com. And that Certified Kingdom Advisor could also help you evaluate the product you have and make sure you understand the implications of, you know, rolling it out, assuming it is, in fact, a qualified annuity and you have the ability to roll it to an IRA. They could help you assess that, but also determine, you know, what surrender charges could be applicable there. You'd want to certainly be aware of that. Hey, Lord bless you. Thanks for being on the program today.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today as you apply God's wisdom from the Bible, the principles we see in those 2,350 verses, to the financial decisions you are making right now as you give, save, as you spend, that's your lifestyle, your giving, your investing, and your savings. Because here's the reality: we know as we think about money, it can be a tool or it can be a treasure. We want it to be a tool. That's really the right perspective. We understand God owns it all. It belongs to Him. It's a good gift from Him.
I think anything that comes from the hand of God starts good until it's not, because in a fallen world, we can worship the creation over the Creator. That's completely wrong. We need to be careful there. Money has a way of rivaling God in our hearts like very few other things. But if we have it as a tool, now all of a sudden it becomes a powerful force for good as we share the Gospel, and as we protect the vulnerable, and as we love our neighbor, and as we build up the church, and as we enjoy it to make memories with our families, and as we provide and, you know, put food on the table. I mean, that's the right posture toward money as a tool that does incredible good.
Now, if it becomes a treasure in our life, well, that's a real problem, because that means it's something that we try to ascribe value to that it was never intended to provide—meaning we're looking for money to provide significance, or to provide identity, or to provide security that ultimately belongs to God. And money will leave us empty in those things every time. When it becomes a treasure, it's a real problem. Remember, though, Matthew 6 said you can't serve God and money. So we need to be careful there. We need to be on our guard. We can't, as the Apostle Paul says, put our hope in the uncertainty of riches.
So we need to be careful there. If we look in Mark 4, we see the parable of the sower. What choked the word out from bearing a 30-, 60-, 100-fold return? Well, it was the deceitfulness of riches, the desires for other things, the cares of this world. But where can money be a powerful tool? Well, we see that on display in God's Word as well. We see it with Joseph, who put aside a fifth, 20%, of everything that came in during the seven years of abundance. We see Boaz along the fringes of his property, around the outside, managing his field, what God had entrusted to him, with generosity and with margin, so that those in need could glean from around the sides and have something to take advantage of. Well, that was the way Boaz postured himself.
And so there's an example where money is a tool, and we can use it for God's glory and for the service and love of others. Think about that today. So often—well, in just about every case, our culture gets that wrong. We need to go back to a biblical worldview, and that's what we want to affirm each day on this program.
All right, let's head to Mississippi. Hi, Gail. How can I help you?
Gail: Yes, thank you so much for taking my call. My husband and I lived off of one income. He is a construction builder; he has his own business. But we have spent the last 20 years homeschooling our children, and now we're in our 50s. We don't have retirement because we put every resource towards that. And now we spend more time paying money, everything that we make pretty much, to the government on taxes. We don't have retirement, and we need some kind of direction. And I wondered if you had any thoughts about that.
Rob West: Yeah. So what is the status of your income and expenses right now? Because your most powerful wealth-building tool, Gail, is going to be the income you have. And I realize during that busy season of life where we're raising a family and educating our kids, and, you know, just trying to do all the things, that's really challenging. Is this a season where you have some margin where you could start funneling, hopefully, large percentages of income into long-term savings?
Gail: Well, if we could get to a point where right now it's like we are told that we need to buy things so that we have things to write off, but then...
Rob West: I see. Let's do this: hang on the line, we'll pick it up right after the break. I've got to hit this break, but we'll be right back. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Well, Jerry Bowyer will join us here in just a moment. We'll get his take on the economy, all these crosscurrents we've got going on right now with the Fed, interest rates, Iran, oil, and bond yields, trying to make sense of it all. We'll do that straight ahead.
Before the break, we were talking to Gail in Mississippi. She and her husband are in their mid-50s; they homeschooled for 18 years. They lived off her husband's income alone—he has a construction business. Just given the realities and expenses of life, they have not been able to put much aside for retirement. She's wanting to make up for lost time, feels like they're paying a lot in taxes right now, and just wondering where she goes from here.
You know, I think the key right now is: how do we intentionally build margin and a retirement plan from this point? Because you still have time, and I think, clearly, your income is your most powerful wealth-building tool right now. But you need to have a clear picture of where you are and what levers you can pull.
So, you need to start with an understanding—for your husband and you together—of the business and the cash flow. Is it profitable? How much is he paying himself for your household? What business structure does he have? What does monthly spending look like? A lot of small business owners feel like taxes are the problem, which you mentioned a moment ago, but often the bigger issue is there's no structured retirement plan or tax strategy.
Taxes are symptomatic of income, but planning matters. So, we need to make sure that we have some retirement options available, and there are some for self-employed business owners. You could use the SEP IRA, which allows you to put away quite a bit of money, reduce taxes because you get the deduction as it goes in, and you all could really try to push large sums of money for these next 10 or 20 years into a retirement plan that could be invested and grow over time. That would help to lower tax liability, increase the amount going into long-term savings, and then with the compounded growth through the investments, you could build something that would serve as a nice little nest egg that you could have alongside Social Security in retirement.
So, I think the key is we just need to evaluate the health and the cash flow of the business, get a retirement plan in place, and then really focus on limiting lifestyle so we can take as much margin and put it into that retirement plan as possible. The more you put in, the more you'll save on your taxes because you're lowering your taxable income, which is really significant, especially as a self-employed business owner where you're paying both sides of the tax.
The other thing is just make sure the business is structured properly so he's taking some of this income as a distribution and not all as salary, because that has tax advantages as well. Does that make sense, though, Gail?
Gail: Well, and I guess my question is, is there someone you would recommend who could help us with this? Because it is a little confusing about understanding—and correct me if I'm wrong—that when you put it into an IRA, it doesn't come off the final amount of your money that you've made? It's only a portion, so you really don't get like this huge tax write-off?
Rob West: Well, not entirely. It comes from the business income you earned. So, for a self-employed person like a construction business owner, the business earns money, the owner calculates eligible compensation (which is the net self-employment income), and then the business can make a SEP IRA contribution on behalf of the owner. That's tax-deductible to the business, which reduces the taxable income. Then you can make your own contribution as well.
So, let's say the business had profit of $150,000, the owner contributes $20,000 to a SEP IRA, and the taxable business income then could be reduced by that contribution. So that's going to lower the overall amount of taxable income that's there.
But I agree, I think you do need an advisor, somebody who can help you set this up, evaluate the business, and help get a plan in place, as well as manage the money as it goes in. So let me direct you to our website, findacka.com. That's findacka.com, and you can find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area there in Mississippi. I would say getting that appointment is probably a high priority. Gail, I appreciate your call today, and I hope that gives you a few things to think about. Lord bless you.
Rob West: Well, Jerry Bowyer is here. Jerry, a lot going on in these markets. Where do you want to start today? So many crosscurrents, aren't there?
Jerry Bowyer: Well, I mean, there's the Fed meeting, which is really important because that's the biggest investor in the world, and then there's the signaling about where the Fed—you know, how the Fed's going to meet. There was the higher-than-expected inflation numbers. I mean, we've had 65 months in a row of inflation that's higher than the Fed's target.
And I know that the President—you know, the President called the Fed Chairman. We don't know exactly what they talked about. I think I can basically guess what a lot of the conversation was. The President wants the Fed to lower rates. Just to be clear, lowering rates just means print more money. And I just don't understand—and some conservatives line up behind that—I just do not understand how after 65 months in a row of inflation, not just above zero, but above the Fed's target rate (which is 2.5%), we would be talking about increasing the money supply. But that's kind of where we are.
Now, the Fed held tough this week and they raised rates, meaning they shrunk the money supply a little bit. But here's the problem: they use easy money to try to stimulate the economy. It doesn't really work, but it does push markets up. So markets are down this week. But to the degree that markets are down because they were artificially inflated with easy money—well, I mean, I'm in markets, I like it when it goes up, I don't like it when it goes down—but I want it to go up for good reasons. I don't want it to just get goosed by easy money, and that's not a sustainable strategy for a bull market anyway.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. Jerry, where does oil fit into all this? It seems like that situation is just continuing to deteriorate, especially now with some of these pipelines closed.
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, pipelines closed, and more than one strait closed now. We were all focusing on the Iranians and the Strait of Hormuz, but there's also the Houthis. So, I mean, there's a real problem here.
This war—I can't imagine that this is how the President thought it would go. And maybe some of his advisors thought it would go this way, but those weren't the advisors that he listened to. So that just feeds into the economic problem. Because if you have oil interruptions, you have higher oil prices; and if you have higher oil prices, then you have higher prices in general, because oil is one of the drivers of prices.
And when the economy is slowing down, that also causes inflation, because inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. Well, that's the "too few goods". So the trade war aspect of things—especially a trade war with Canada, which is a really close trading partner, especially with energy, but with other very important commodities—then there's a lot of pressure on the economy.
So, Jerry, are you saying it's all terrible? No, I'm not. The American economy is incredibly resilient. The President's general economic program of lower taxes and deregulation has powerful, genuinely stimulative effects—not goosing the economy, but strengthening the economy.
And so, I think we can avoid a recession for the reasons that I just gave, plus we happen to be in a moment where there's a new technology that's developed: LLMs (Large Language Models), we call it AI. There's different kinds: there's LLMs, but there's also world models, which is helping with manufacturing, and there's other research models. Something important is going on in the technological history of our country.
By the way, it's not a transformation of the human race, it's not a god, it's not a devil—it's a product. It's a software product. Everyone needs to maybe breathe into a paper bag for a little while here. It's not going to destroy us. There is no successor species to humans other than resurrected humans.
Now, there's been a lot of conversation this week, some of which I found helpful. There was like a freak-out earlier in the year: "Oh, it's going to kill us all, let's stop developing it!" And some of the more responsible business people came out and said, "You know what, Anthropic, if that product isn't safe, keep working on it until you can ship it. This is what we always do with products." If a pharmaceutical company is working on a drug and thinks, "Oh, we think it might cure cancer, but it might cause cancer, we don't know yet," what do you do? You don't say, "Let's shut down pharmaceutical firms," you say, "Let's do clinical testing, let's work on it, and make sure that it's helpful and safe."
So, I think the idea that we need to completely regulate it or just put the brakes on it—that's silly. When you have a product that isn't safe, what do you do? Do you stop working on it? No, you work on it more, but you don't ship it.
And so, I think that's been a helpful conversation for AI this week, in that we're not going to put it under the control of regulators, which might really just be a way that the ones who have already arrived want to cut off competition from the up-and-comers.
So that's another thing that's driving our economic growth. I would say half our GDP or more is now coming from the contribution from AI. So that's something on our side. We have things against us, we have things for us, and I'd say the things for us are a little bit more than the things against us. Of course, "If God is for us, who can be against us?" But that's a different conversation. In economics, what we have is a mixture of good policies and a moment in history of technological advance, and we have some bad policies, which are largely unforced errors, and those are wrestling with one another.
The Fed has to kind of say, "How do we deal with that?" And I think Warsh said, "You know what? I'm just going to try to fight inflation. I'm just going to do the one job: preserve the power of the dollar. It's not my job to make the economy or the people feel good; it's my job to keep prices stable."
Rob West: Yeah, wow. Jerry, really helpful flyover of where we are at this moment. Thanks for your insights, as always.
Jerry Bowyer: My pleasure. God bless.
Rob West: All right, that's Jerry Bowyer, our resident economist, joining us each Friday in this segment. Boy, we always learn several things when Jerry is here.
Folks, thanks for being along with us today. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devin, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this show possible. And you—we can't do this without you. In fact, FaithFi is listener-supported, and we're so thankful for so many of you who are our partners. If you'd like to become a partner, a regular supporter of the ministry, or make a one-time gift, just head to faithfi.com/give. It's huge; it's a big support to us: faithfi.com/give. Then come back and join us next week; we'll see you then. Bye-bye.
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We spend a great amount of time thinking about how to earn, save, invest, and manage money wisely. But what happens when we’ve done those things well—and still find ourselves wondering, “Is there something more?” On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Scott Highmark unpack the Significance Pyramid. Move beyond success toward lasting significance. Then, it’s on to calls.
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