RFK Jr debates Dana Bash + Israeli influencers on Spain

American Family Radio thanks sponsor, Preborn for supporting pro life efforts

Jenna Ellis: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But she can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside her. One ultrasound is just $28 and to donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com afr Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.

American Family Radio Network host returns from trip to Maine for brother's wedding

Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Tuesday, August 4th, and it's great to be back with you after my trip to Maine over the weekend, for my brother's wedding. So congratulations to the new Mr. And Mrs. Tyler Ellis. very excited to be there, celebrating with them. and I learned a great lesson this weekend that Maine is very hard to get to from literally anywhere. a lot of members of my family had, quite the experience journeying back to our respective destinations. And for my parents it took going from Portland, Maine to Baltimore, Maryland spending the night overnight, then going from Baltimore to San Antonio, Texas and back to Denver. They just got back yesterday afternoon. we lost a couple of bags along the way. It was quite the adventure. But thankfully everyone made it, to the wedding. It was beautiful and I'm so excited for their new life together and also very excited to be back with you and continuing in this wonderful ministry that we have here at American Family Radio Network to talk about the things of God and of truth from a biblical worldview.

CNN's Dana Bash interviewed RFK Jr. over the weekend about vaccines

And over the weekend it was really fascinating to see this interview between RFK Jr. And CNN's Dannah Bash who she calls herself a journalist but really we know that that just anymore basically means activist, because she allegedly brings him on to talk about the the COVID vaccines and really you know, his, his mandates about vaccines. And she starts with, you know, talking about Fauci and of course there's a lot of fallout with his non response to the Senate last week and I actually think that's a very good thing that we're talking about vaccines and then we're talking about the COVID shot, which is not a vaccine. It never was. And, you know, a lot of issues around that and kind of bringing back to the fore, all of the really heinous crimes, honestly, that were committed, during that era. And Bash is, is pretending to be this journalist, but it ends up devolving, as it always does, into just this raging debate for 21 minutes. This entire interview reminds me of the time while I was working for Trump. I went on CNN with Brian Stelter, also known as the Potato, to, to those of us in politics, and, you know, supposed to be on polling or, you know, something like that, and he ends up just trying to debate me for literally about 20 minutes. And it's remarkable because who is actually benefiting from this? Like when. When people are just, yeah, yelling back and forth and, you know, she's spewing the talking points and really just trying to get Trump. I mean, that's ultimately the. The quest and the point of, of these baseless interviews. It really just reminds you that the. This is not a media network that is trying to actually inform you and, and allow you to, to understand what's going on and then make a better decision for yourself and your family because of that. Like, that used to be the hallmark of journalists was that we just report and then people can make up their minds. And the unbiased fashion was something that journalists prided themselves on. And that's. That is no longer the case, especially with mainstream networks. And it's not just cnn, it's Fox News and Newsmax and everybody else. They all come from this bias and these talking points of trying to preserve the two major parties. I mean, they're basically mouthpieces of, for the GOP and for the dnc.

You have been placing blame on Dr. Fauci for the COVID pandemic

But one of the, clips that I want to play first and then bring in my first guest was, actually fascinating to me on the issue of Fauci and how Dannah Bash, actually suggested that, Fauci, of course, was fine and everything is fine during COVID But then listen to what RFK Jr says about the Fauci mismanagement of Cove This is cut one.

Speaker C: You have been placing nearly all the blame, on the COVID pandemic and the way that the US responded to it squarely with Dr. Fauci, but of course, he worked for President Trump. Does President Trump also deserve some of the blame? Well, you know, President Trump, as you recall, wanted to. And the lockdowns, I think the thing that did the most damage to our country was the Lockdowns. Lockdowns that shut down 3.5 million businesses in our country with no due process, no just compensation. All of our churches closed, our schools, and our children are still paying the price for that. And yet we had the worst outcome of any country in the world.

Speaker C: How so? We have the highest death rate from COVID of any nation on earth.

Speaker C: Well, let me just. Let me just say, because I've heard you say that before on the death rate from Cove that's not accurate, because public health experts say that there is a combination of factors that went into that. Higher rates of chronic illnesses, which I know you would agree with gaps to our health care system, and misinformation about vaccines. You just said what I said was inaccurate. What I said was accurate. We had the highest death rate from

Speaker C: COVID There are now, there are other countries that had higher, but you can argue about why we had that. But, you. Nobody can tell you. I mean, we have, as you say, we have the highest chronic disease burden in the world. But Nancy found she was mismanaging the COVID pandemic, was doing it under the Biden administration.

Mike Donnelly: The governors bear the brunt of blame for Covid mismanagement

Jenna Ellis: All right, so let's welcome in Mike Donnelly, who is an attorney and one of my favorite people to rant with. And of course, was. He and I were talking during this whole time and, during COVID about all of the mismanagement and. Mike, good morning. And, you know, the issue that I have with that response was I actually think that was the one question that Dannah Bash asked that was maybe. Maybe a journalistic question that nobody on the right is willing to ask, because both of them actually are accurate. That Foushee mismanaged Covid. Yes, under the Biden administration, but also under the Trump administration. And asking whether Trump deserves some of the blame for not removing Foushee, I think is the question that conservatives and Trump supporters overall are unwilling to answer straightforwardly, because I think that absolutely, he deserves some of the blame. And I think that Fauci mismanaged Covid both under Trump and also probably more egregiously, but still under the Biden administration.

Mike Donnelly: Well, Jenna, what I'm going to say is one thing that Dannah Bash said that I agreed with, maybe the only thing was she blamed the governors. And when you think about who's really responsible for what happened during the pandemic, and good morning to everybody listening, and everybody's probably like, oh, my goodness, are we still talking about the COVID pandemic and coronavirus? And, you know, folks, the Bible says that all things will come to light. Nothing that is hidden will be hidden. The truth will come out. And I don't know, I feel kind of like as an American, that we can't really put this behind us until we really understand what happened. And a lot of people just want be like, okay, that's done. We've survived it. Let's move on. I appreciate that. At the same time, so many things that were done that are being examined now. And that's why I appreciate what Rand Paul is doing, trying to get the truth out of Anthony Fauci, who has a pardon and still pled the fifth 111 times during the, thing. But we have his diaries, so we know. Right.

Mike Donnelly: But again, I think it's true. You know, Fauci has become a public figure to what happened during the pandemic, and he has a lot of responsibility for what happened. And, and it relates to the governors because he was talking to the governors and trying to convince them to lock the country down and to close the schools, and he was promoting the so called vaccine. Okay, and does the Trump administration, during its last six months that was managing this, deserve maybe some blame? Well, I mean, we were all trying to still figure it out. I suppose there's lots of blame to go around. But what Robert Kennedy says is that the Biden administration extended it. They shamed people over the vaccine. I mean, what the Biden administration did was far worse. But, we can certainly talk about what the Trump administration did, but it was the governors, I think, that really bear the brunt of the blame. And I think what RFK Jr said. And by the way, folks, you have to listen to this interview. It's very compelling, and it's entertaining too, if you like that kind of thing. I loved how RFK would not let Dannah Bash get away with saying things that he thought weren't true. And there's a lot of truth that he said during that interview. But we got to look at the governors and so we need to go back to our state governments and we need to be doing the same thing at the state level and, changing the laws to make sure. And some of that has happened in some states to make sure that doesn't happen again. That's my view.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And you're right to point out, the governor's responsibilities as well. And this is how we saw initially the drastic difference between the management of blue states versus red states. And why, my home state governor, Ron DeSantis, became so immensely popular because of the way that he handled Covid and he didn't allow the lockdowns to continue. He didn't just take the Fauci narrative and contrast that to how Gavin Newsom was running California, for example, or Andrew Cuomo at the time was running NewSong York. And we saw that contrast and we still had the same president. It was either Trump or Biden, we had the same president while all of those things were occurring. And we saw the difference that state government makes. We saw the difference between what the legislature intends by emergency actions versus these lengthy indefinite extensions of absolute authority that governors like Newsom, subsume to themselves. Ah, we have a lot of lessons to still learn. And some of those things we were learning at the time and over the few years after Covid. But yes, we're still talking about this, and rightly so, because I don't think, Mike Donnelly, we're done yet. And we shouldn't be done with, with focusing on what states cannot do again and should never do again, but also what the federal government, ah, can't and shouldn't do again, by allowing, you know, this one sort of I think very evil figure who clearly wanted his own celebrity star, ah, to rise and was making certain decisions that that were unadvisable, but just thought that he had the total power and the total knowledge to make all of these decisions. And thankfully the Supreme Court stepped in and I think that without that decision under the Biden administration to say no, the COVID vaccine cannot be mandated under the workers rules and that federal law, and if you have a business over 100, you can't just mandate that and not allow people to work. If that decision hadn't occurred, we probably still, in 2026 would be in the midst of a so called COVID pandemic. And it was fascinating going to Maine, which is, you know, not even like the bluest state around. But I just am so thankful to live in Florida because the whole Covid narrative is still actually going on in a lot of parts of the country. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I saw that were still wearing masks and still, you know, saying we've got to be distancing and all this in August of 2026. And I'm thinking, you know, these people don't even live in reality. But this is part of why this conversation still matters.

Mike Donnelly: It does, Jenna.

RFK says there is credible evidence linking vaccines to Lyme disease

And you and I, whenever we talk, I like to steer it back to my central concern regarding the power of the federal government. As you Pointed out. And so I think there is a lot of blame to be laid at the federal government. And you know, Anthony Fauci has been a government bureaucrat for, I think 40 years. He worked his way up and he's if you go back and unpeel the onion and see what was contributing to the coronavirus itself. And as RFK said, by the way, on this interview, he said some things that I had never heard before, which I want to go do some research on. I haven't had the chance to do that yet. but he claimed that there's credible evidence linking RSV to gain of function research. He claimed that there is credible evidence linking Lyme disease to gain of function research. And Anthony Fauci was involved in promoting and funding is what is being reported, gain of function research. Even at the Wuhan Lab where the coronavirus gain of function research happened and where the virus appears to have originated. This is the federal government doing stuff it shouldn't be doing. And when we talk about vaccines, right folks, we need to remember it is the federal government that passed the 1986. They call it the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. I call it the National Vaccine Liability Immunity Act. Because what that did was it gave to big pharmaceutical companies who manufacture vaccines, liability protection, and what happens. So the vaccine schedule has gone from 8 or 9 required for kids to go to school, which I don't agree with, but okay, fine, eight or nine to like 72 over the course of the kids first 12 years. And why has that happened? And why does the government compel people to get shots to go to school? And then the pharmaceutical companies keep saying, oh, we can have a shot for this and a shot for that, a shot for that. And these vaccines are billions and billions of dollars of profit and they bear no responsibility for any of the harm that comes out of it. The other thing that RFK explored, which Dannah Bash really didn't like and people might want to go listen to this interview, is looking at the link between autism and vaccines. And Dannah Bash really pushed hard back on that. But, you know, I think you listen to what RFK said. He didn't say all vaccines. He said we need to study this issue. And there are some studies that show there is some vaccine maybe where there isn't. But he said there are some studies that show that there might be some that are. And this is a huge issue that we need to study in our country because we have an epidemic of autism. And if it is linked to something that is being created like a vaccine, we need to know that. And we can't just stick our heads in the sand like Dannah Bash wants us to. So this interview is very important. You need to listen to it. A lot of good information in there, and it's very entertaining too.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah. And, to your point of how much control, you know, the federal government has had and how much, you know, we, we tend to as a society just sort of tacitly go along with whatever the current recommendations are. This interview, the fact that it aired on CNN is really great because of what RFK is, is saying. And if you can get past, you know, kind of the clash of the back and forth and, you know, this, this ended up devolving into really a terrible debate in the sense that Dannah Bash didn't do a very good job of pushing the leftist talking points. What RFK was saying is incredibly important. And I hope that the NIH now under Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, who is a way better, light years better than Fauci, and was telling Trump at the time in the summer of 2020 that the statistics were wrong, all of this was wrong. I mean, Trump had an opportunity to, listen to other people besides Fauci. And I think that was, his worst responsibility here, was simply allowing Fauci to continue doing all of the things that he was, instead of, taking the advice of Dr. Atlas, and Dr. Bhattacharya at the time. And and really I think he abdicated the last six months of his presidency to Fauci. but the, but all of this to say there are so many things that Americans need to still follow up on, especially when we look at what, now epidemics may be related, to some of this research and how, so many things in Big Pharma, in Big Ag, in the food supply, all, all of these things are harmful. And yet they're being sold to Americans as just the next step of progress. I mean, there was a report out, just the other day talking about, this new synthetically grown milk that was. There, was a test apparently in Seattle at a local Starbucks. And people were not actually told, according to this article, that they were drinking this synthetic milk. And then the study stopped because then when people found out about it, they were very upset. but those are the kinds of things, lab grown meat, you know, all of these things that we don't know the effects later on. And the industry is not trying to do this to make us more healthy. They're doing it to make themselves more profitable. And what we saw during COVID as well is that the government not only has too much power on the federal level, but also is providing too much of a liability shield to, to all of these different companies to do these kinds of dangerous activities with foreseeable consequences and unknown consequences. And that was one of the biggest takeaways from Cove as well, was how much cover for any sort of liability a big pharma would have.

Mike Donnelly: We got to repeal these laws so people can take power back

last minute here, Mike Donnelly, and really appreciate your thoughts today.

Mike Donnelly: 100%, Jenna. No, I agree. The federal government's doing too much. We got to repeal these laws so people can take the power back at the state level. And if people don't trust the government, federal government, then they'll do their own research and they'll investigate and then we'll figure these things out. So that's, that's my view. Thanks for having me on. Good to talk with you folks. Have a great day.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, thanks. And you can follow Mike Donnelly at Donnelly speaks on X. And that's the biggest takeaway point is do your own research, have sources that you trust. Don't just take the narrative from either side. Either way, always, be in a position that you know you're making the best decisions for yourself and your family because here in America, we still get to have informed consent and we've got to fight for it. So we will be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the morning.

The work of preborn network clinics is more urgent than ever

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Speaker C: when I heard her heartbeat, that was it.

Jenna Ellis: Just $28 sponsors one ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. To donate, dial 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby. Or visit preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Three people accused of vandalizing Washington's Reflecting Pool have been dismissed

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, Jeanine Pirro, who is the U.S. attorney for Washington moved to dismiss charges against three more people accused of vandalizing the Reflecting Pool amid its re restructure and all of that with the Trump administration trying to get it back to its former glory. And investigators concluded the main cause of the damage was bomb botched by a contractor, and work from that contractor, not vandalism. So President Trump was asked about it yesterday and this was his response. Cut to. I was disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. Really disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. She, she folded like an umbrella.

Jenna Ellis: Wow. So 30 plus years of friendship and Trump ah, is not happy with, with Judge Jeanine. But let's welcome in Oren McIntyre who's host at the Blaze. And Oren, this whole story to me just, I don't care. I mean the Reflecting Pool, all of those things are national monuments. Obviously we want those preserved. I think it was a great thing that Trump wanted to bring all of that back to its former glory. But when he's out there making statements like this, which of course were trending as soon as he said it started trending on social media and that becomes the topic of discussion is you know, then Jeanine Pirro met with them at the White House and you know, left and there's kind of this rift now allegedly. I mean this, this to me screams more like a like a TV show drama or something. When really the focus, especially during the midterms should be on why grocery prices are still too high, why inflation is still too high, why gas prices are still too high, why mom Donnie in NewSong York is asking for 81 year olds. There's an article in the Free Press Yesterday. my 81 year old mother has lived in NewSong York for 30 years, but the city presumes now she owes over $55,000 in fees for out of towners. She received a letter from the NewSong York City demanding that in property taxes where she's lived in a midtown Manhattan home townhouse since 1996. And you know, all of these things are way more important than the Reflecting Pool. But because of Trump's focus, I think on the foreign policy and on things that really don't matter in the United States, there are a lot of young people that are turning to other alternatives, unfortunately, including socialism, because it just seems like the Trump administration is not paying attention to, to the greater problems in our society today. How do you view this?

Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, I mean obviously the continued obsession with this story is a little bizarre and to be fair, I think some of it is Just the media continuing to feed into this. you know, the, obviously, they, they can see that it barbs Trump, and that's something that they can inflame. And so, you know, that they lean into that and, you know, the left leans into it as much as possible. So, you know, that distraction quality is useful, but it is, as you say, just a little bit of a disaster that we keep running into all of these other issues. I saw yesterday a number of online influencers, trying to talk about how actually the economy's fine, grocery prices are fine, housing prices are fine, and ultimately, it's the people who are the problem. They're the ones who are, you know, somehow not grateful enough for kind of what is happening in the United States right now. And even if you think that Trump is doing a great job and there are no issues, that's just a losing message. You know, this is how the Biden administration became a disaster. They were mocking people who were concerned about the price of milk. I don't know if you remember this, when they were, you know, laughing at people from the, you know, the White House briefing room about how, you know, food prices were just fine. you cannot message like that going into the midterms. You have to address the issues that people are facing. And if they feel ultimately that affordability is getting out of hand, as you say, they're going to go to places where people have answers, even if those answers are a disaster. Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried, but if people feel like they cannot afford basic things like groceries, they're going to start listening to people who are talking about those issues, even with the wrong answers. And, and we really need an administration who is going to do what it said. It's going to reduce those affordability issues. It's going to look at housing, it's going to look at grocery prices. And, you know, when you're jacking up the price of gas by a few dollars because we're busy fighting a war that no one really wanted in the Middle East. Well, people are not going to end up caring about the issues you care about. And we get stuck on things like the reflecting pool.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, really well said. And I think perfectly, encapsulating the problem. And to your point about how the Biden administration influencers and their, you know, White House briefing room and, and all of their media during the Biden administration were basically denying the problems that were going on and not paying attention to what, the average American wanted. Do you think that this is a Big problem with the two party system, because right now, while Trump is in office, it becomes kind of this implicit responsibility somehow that those of us who voted for Trump and who are Republicans and conservatives and overall in general support him and obviously supported him over Kamala Harris, that now somehow we have a duty to always defend his actions and minimize the problems that are going on because our guy is in office. Right. And that's what they do when they're guy is in office instead of remaining the citizens who say, okay, we elected a president from whatever party that happens to be, but we can still and should still critique and always analyze their actions against this objective standard that we used to call conservatism.

Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, that's exactly it. And it's been, been bewildering to me because, you know, of course I supported Trump every time it's been possible, Every election it's been possible. You know, I've never voiced my, you know, even when DeSantis was in the primary. And I know we disagreed on this, but, you know, ultimately I still thought that Trump was going to be the inevitable winner. And I continued to back him even in those moments, even though I love Ron DeSantis and I think he's the best governor Florida has ever had. So I have an unqualified support for Trump across the board. But I hear constantly, well, you know, you're, you're doing some kind of demoralization operation. You're insufficiently loyal because you're noticing when there's problems, because you're pointing out when bad decisions are being made, as if somehow now I have betrayed the President by pointing out that we are not getting what we voted for and that something needs to change. But this is foolish. This is not serving the president or his administration by feeding them some kind of line that's completely disingenuous. If you're ultimately not seeing the mass deportations that you were promised, if you're ultimately not seeing the issues of affordability addressed that were necessary, then the thing to do is to say, I continue to support the President, but we need to see changes. We need to see a, tightening up of the administration. We need to see a laser focus of the administration. And you just don't do anyone any service by blindly going along with a bad program. That doesn't mean that you now support Kamala Harris. I'm not out there telling people to go vote Democrat. That would be insane. But I'm also not going to be quiet about this. Look, I understand that the President is in a difficult situation when it comes to affordability. The truth is that both parties have continued to print money, and continue to spend money. I mean, you know, how much have we spent on the current war? Tens of billions of dollars. We're still handing money to the Ukrainian war, we're still writing checks for Ukraine. And so the fact that we're still doing all this is not going to help our economic situation. But ultimately the problem is many decades old and it's not just Donald Trump's issue. So I get that. But we need to be able to do what at least we are able to do by restricting the spending now, by stopping borrowing money on behalf of the, you know, the current citizenry, and allow them to be able to avoid this dangerous inflation that is completely wrecking their ability to buy groceries, homes and everything else. And there's no reason to tell people that this, that they should just, you know, figure it out like that. That is a disastrous way to message going into midterms.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Jenna Ellis: And I think that the overspending and, and the funding and all of that is even more directly attributable to Congress because they hold the purse strings. And we've seen the lack of will of the GOP to to go along with the doge priorities that initially were part of Trump's, ah, second term and the administration and their lack of will to govern entirely, essentially. And so what do you think is, is the best way, Oren, that the people, like you and I and, and hopefully a at least modest part of the base, what can we do to actually get a hold of the, the GOP and let them know this isn't okay? Because to your point, I don't think that the best response is to say, okay, well let's just hand it all over then to the Democrats so that we teach the GOP a lesson. I mean, people in my home state of Florida right now are so frustrated that as you well know, cause you live here as well, that, you know, Byron Donald's may end up being the nominee. So they're saying, well then forget it. I want to teach Trump a lesson and we don't want the GOP system to succeed. So I'm either going to sit it out or just vote for the Democrat. And that's basically, you know, shooting yourself in the foot and is not a good solution. But at the same time, if you just say, okay, well that's our nominee and let's go along with it, then if the GOP wins the midterms, Trump will end up Saying, okay, I won. And obviously he'll take that message away, and he'll certainly message it that way, and then he'll just carry on with business as usual and Congress won't do anything differently. And so it seems like, you know, we're really in a double bind here where we don't want to vote for the Democrats, but we don't want to keep the current Republican priorities either.

Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, and as you say, this is the two party trap. There really is no great option at the moment normally saying, okay, well, let the Republicans lose and let them suffer the consequences of their actions and send them a message. You know, if this was the 1990s, maybe that would be a reasonable stance. You know, but unfortunately, we're at the point where the Democrats winning something is an existential crisis.

Jenna Ellis: Our democracy is in a terrible position where allowing third parties

Not only are they going to throw the borders open ultimately, if they completely regain power again, but they're going to, you know, throw the Trump administration in jail, they're going to endlessly investigate the Trump administration, they're going to start appointing judges, they're going to do all kinds of things that are going to box us in for many, many years. Our democracy is just, frankly, in a terrible position where allowing any power to fall into the hands of the opposition party could literally land you in jail. And so we have to take that seriously. So while normally I would say, yeah, you know, maybe we do let the GOP ultimately kind of take one on the chin because they deserve to lose due to the way that they have behaved, we simply cannot allow it at this point. And so I think all the pressure has to be internal. We have to let the president and we have to know that you let the GOP know that while, you know, there will be votes, because ultimately we cannot let the other side hold power, that these votes are ultimately contingent on them getting themselves together and putting the correct priorities first. And, that's a difficult thing to do because we've seen, especially as you point out with the GOP Congress, they simply refuse to do things like pass the SAVE act that everybody wants, that have massive support, not just from the gop, but from even the average American voter. So that pressure has to maintain itself. It has to be constant.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And absolutely. And to your point about the, the two party problem, I mean, obviously this has been going on for quite a while, in the modern era of US Politics, and there's always been an undercurrent of, well, let's raise up a third party solution. And that's really never, come to pass. Or come to fruition in ways that different factions have attempted it. so it's interesting now to see what former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green, Thomas Massie and a few others including Tucker Carlsen, are trying to form this kind of coalition, saying our commitment is to America first for all Americans. And Marjorie Taylor Green posted we said no more foreign wars and we meant it and supported Donald Trump because he made that promise. But he's betrayed us all. And she posted this picture. I, think from you know, Tucker's kind of layer, that there was this meeting of some of the minds that you know we've just discussed and they're obviously trying to break away from the gop, kind of start this new faction of influence. There are, there's speculation that Tucker may run for president. I don't know how, you know, how realistic that actually is. It's possible certainly. But what do you make of this particular faction compared to maybe some other attempts in recent history, to go the third party solution route?

Auron MacIntyre : I mean I love Tucker, I'm friendly with Tucker, but he's been very clear that he's just not going to run. He said that very explicitly, multiple times over. Maybe it's all grand ruse, but I think he's sincere in that. And I, I don't think that a third party is wise. Not because ultimately I'm somehow you know, principled against it, but simply the math doesn't work out. If we look at American history, it's been two party system basically the entire time. Last time we got a real major national party shift, it was literally the Civil War. Yeah, the the rise of the GOP and the election of of their candidate Abraham Lincoln led to the Civil War. and it only occurred because the Democrats split into two parties and voted against each other and another major party, was dying simultaneously, the Whig Party. And so you know, this is just something that historically is just not going to work. so I understand the impulse in theory makes sense, sense. Our system does technically allow for it in the law, but mathematically like just the realities of politics on the ground. Third parties have just never worked in the United States. and so I just don't think that this is probably fruitful though again I do understand the impulse.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah, I agree. really well said or in McIntyre. And we are going to take a break here. He is sticking with us through the break to talk about a couple of other issues, very important headlines. So we'll be right back with More here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.

Wall Street Journal reports rise in anti Christian incidents in Israel

Auron MacIntyre : welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm still here with my special guest, Orin McIntyre. And, we want to talk about this piece in a new Wallnua Street Journal investigation that reports a troubling rise in anti Christian harassment in Jerusalem, from clergy being spat on in the streets to vandalism of churches and verbal abuse. So the report says that these incidents are becoming more frequent, with researchers documenting more than 100 anti Christian incidents in the first half of 2026 alone, many involving young Jewish extremists. So Israeli officials have publicly affirmed religious freedom, but critics argue that enforcement has been inconsistent. And so for decades, American Christians have rightly stood with Israel. and we recognize Israel's unique place in history, its right to exist, its right to the land, and its import importance. And obviously there's a controversy now and, I think even Oren and I have disagreed on, whether America, should continue to have Israel as its closest ally in the Middle East. But supporting Israel overall and however we, we think about that topic should never mean ignoring wrongdoing when it occurs. So how should Christians think about this? is this simply the work of a radical fringe or does it reflect a deeper cultural problem that Israel needs to confront? So Oren, give us the big picture here. How significant is this rise in anti Christian incidents in Israel?

Auron MacIntyre : Well, you know, I think that it's probably a minority of actors ultimately, but a lot of people don't know that ultimately there is an undercurrent of this in Israel. you know, the spitting on people is just a part of a larger attitude that often exists inside the country. So for instance, many people don't know that proselyzation, the spreading of the gospel, is looked down on by the Israeli government. Because of course, the definition of a Jewish person, unfortunately for many people in that community is someone who is not Christian. So for instance, when you look at the right of return, the right for Jewish people to return to Israel and take residence there, you can do that if you are an atheist. If you have, if you're a person of Jewish descent who is an atheist. But you cannot do that if you are a person of Jewish descent who is, has become a Christian. If you are a messianic Jew, you are not allowed to return to the state of Israel because for them you are no longer Jewish by definition, by being Christian. these things are built into the laws and the attitudes of Israel. I think a lot of People noticed that when Israel went into Lebanon, we saw that picture of an Israeli soldier smashing a depiction of Jesus on the cross, a crucifixion. you know, again, this is not everyone in Israel. I don't even think this is. The majority of people in Israel would take a such a severe action. But we do need to understand that the exclusion of Christians, even Jewish Christians, is ultimately built into the law of Israel, the kind of identity of Israel. This is a unfortunate fact that ultimately in the modern day, you know, the Jewish Messiah has come because the Jewish Messiah was the Messiah for everyone. It was Jesus Christ. And to continue to have a culture in which you identify as not a follower of that Messiah is going to set you at some level against, you know, the presence of Christians in the Holy Land.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Jenna Ellis: And it's a really, you know, fascinating discussion because one of the distinguishing characteristics of Western civilization has been this principle of religious freedom. And obviously, you know, when we're talking about that from an Americanized person perspective, that doesn't mean secular pluralism. It doesn't mean that we cannot or should not recognize America as being founded on a Judeo Christian heritage. And even that term, Judeo Christian has now become controversial somehow because of ah, the tensions in Israel. But it's always been an interesting part of history and a theological discussion as well, that some, some Jews, actually quite a few is still in Israel, don't recognize Christ as their Messiah and so don't view Christians as part of this overall heritage. And they reject Jesus as Messiah. And then you have the Messianic Jews that of course, do recognize that are Christians and they have Jewish heritage and lineage, just from their ancestry. And, and so as Evangelical Christians have been among Israel's strongest supporters for decades, could incidents like this, even though, as you rightly point out, it's you know, very small minority, it's still making the headlines and an already, I think, strained relationship and flashpoint, with the ongoing, you know, war in Iran and a lot of people suggesting that America shouldn't be fighting Israel's war. so how m. How much could incidents like this continue to strain that relationship?

Auron MacIntyre : I think you're right that you know, this is something that people are becoming more aware of. And as we point out, you know, it's. It's not everyone, it is a minority of people in Israel. But when you already have this, you know, kind of, the straining of the relationship due to foreign policy, due to some of the attitudes that are often expressed by Israeli leadership. People are going to look more and more at these issues. I think also, as we've discussed before, dispensationalism, you know, kind of the bedrock of evangelical support for the, current secular nation, state of Israel, that is moving to the wayside. I think you are seeing a lot more young people embrace the more traditional covenant theology, you know, the understanding that we are all Christians, you know, that the Jew and Gentile were, ultimately bound under, Christ together, that we were grafted into, this lineage, and that the church is Israel, that the church is ultimately the inheritor of the promises of Israel, both Jew and Gentile, in the current, covenant. And so I think that that is, a position that will continue to grow. I understand, you know, we might have theological differences there, but I think just objectively it's true that young people in the church are more so heading that direction when they're understanding our relationship with Israel. And so if, you know, that is a, if that is a belief that Israel was leaning on previously, assuming a large amount of support and goodwill because every Christian would just kind of fall into the dispensational frame, I think that is starting to, fray. I think that that belief is now no longer going to be dominant. And that means that you're going to have to convince people to support your country in other ways. You know, that you can't just lean on that itself. And so Israel needs to start thinking about the way it presents itself to Christians. Because when you don't have that default support and when you have people getting spit on, when you have, you know, a adverse, position to the average Christian in the Holy Land, well, that's not going to play well. And you're not going to be able to fall back on the idea that, well, we just have to support Israel because at some point the Bible said so. You're going to need more concrete and realistic arguments for why the United States should continue to support this country in the Middle East.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and I agree with you on the overall point that because, many, especially young people are reconsidering the relationship, in terms of foreign policy with Israel, they're starting to question these things that, you know, incidents like this don't help. And, there. There isn't just this default perspective that we saw, we've seen over the last several decades, that at least from the GOP perspective and evangelicals and Protestants writ large, that it's assumed that we support Israel. We need to have a good response from this, and obviously this is, you know, one of the areas that I respectfully disagree with covenant theology. And I don't think that that's become a rise because it's on the rise, because it's you know, older or, or better interpretation because I don't believe it takes God's covenants and his promises to Israel at face value. And as listeners, regular listeners know, throughout Scripture, God repeatedly makes unconditional promises to Abraham, David and the nation of Israel regarding the people, the land and a future kingdom. And the NewSong Testament never says those promises are canceled or transferred to the church. The church doesn't replace Israel. And in fact Romans 11 explicitly says that quote, the gifts of God and the calling of God are irrevocable, unquote. And it anticipates a future restoration of Israel, which happened of course, you know, in the 1940s. And so Covenant theology was more of a way to express what was going on when Israel of course was disbanded for a long time and people didn't ultimately believe what the future of the promise restoration and, and what would happen. And so so overall, you know, we've had that theological discussion and I just want to make that clear from, from my perspective. But to your point, Oren, I agree with you that because that theology is debated and there are a lot of young people increasingly that are taking the Covenant theology position, that we need to have good answers to some of these questions and a lot of these concerns. And when you also look at what's going on right now with a lot of Israeli influencers and some pro Israel influencers that are celebrating or even amplifying Spain's migration crisis. Because of Spain's criticism of Israel, we've m. Seen a lot of or at least some prominent pro Israel influencers on social media essentially say that Spain is getting what it deserves. I think that's a serious strategic m. Mistake. That doesn't help the, the at least current political posture of Israel, all of the theological questions notwithstanding.

Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, I mean when you have Benjamin Netanyahu's son saying we're going to, you know, if you don't do what we want, we're going to keep contributing to NGOs that are going to pile Muslim migrants into your country, that's just evil and malicious talk. and you know, while I don't think that Israel is directly responsible in this particular incident for Muslim migrants coming into Spanish territories, when you talk like that, you cannot be surprised when people ultimately then decide that you're to blame for this. Israel is in a very serious situation that it seems to take very stridently. America is really the last nation supporting Israel in any serious capacity. And many of the leaders of Israel seem to be, if anything, incredibly resentful about the fact that we seem m to be helping them and are more than willing to go out and message that, yeah, we don't care if a European country is devoured by Islam. In fact they deserve it. And we're going to, you know, perhaps act as if we're taking a hand in it, even if, I don't know if there's evidence that that's true. But the very fact that they would say that out loud is just insane. I can't believe they're doing it. It's almost like national suicide in real time.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, I agree and it's really bizarre. And this is where Christians need to make the distinction of, first and foremost the theological absolutes. And then we can make a distinction between supporting Israel as a nation if we think that, you know, we currently should, the government, but we should also be able to criticize some of the decisions there and also the influencers. So Orin, really appreciate it and I'll see you tomorrow with more. Preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com afr.

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