Transcript

Jenna Ellis discusses Black History Month on American Family Radio

 : Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.

 : This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.

Jenna Ellis: Good morning and Happy Friday. And you know, we're getting toward the end of February and this has been and has been for a while, what is known as Black History Month. And you know, this is annually observed, that originating in the United States and also known as African American History Month, to to talk about notable contributions, from the black community. And you know, of course this is, this has gotten a little out of hand, I think in, in the broader perspective of the left, that's suggesting, you know, that consumers should only patronize, black owned businesses, that somehow now it's it's okay to discriminate against you know, any other, minority, but especially you can discriminate now against, against white people. I mean, and that's something that if we are truly pursuing a, more perfect union and we actually understand the legitimacy of government, we shouldn't be preferring anybody based on, you know, race, gender, any of these immutable characteristics that God himself, ordains in us. And so, you know, this is kind of a, an interesting topic, but I wanted to cover it this morning.

Pastor Darrell Scott has been a longtime Trump advisor

and we're going to get into a few other things that are maybe even a little more controversial with my special guest this morning, Pastor Darrell Scott, who has been a longtime Trump advisor. I've had the privilege of knowing him for many years. I think we first met through the Trump advisory board. Ah, Pastor Darryl. But you know, you've been such a great friend, to me over the years. You've been such a great friend, of course, to President Trump, and you know, really grounded in your perspective of America, of American exceptionalism. And so, you know, give us kind of your take and overview of Black History Month and you know, kind of the good points and maybe where we've gone a little off the rails.

Darrell Scott: Well, thank you for having me on, my friend, good talking to you. As always. I can share with your perspective regarding Black History Month that there's nothing wrong with setting aside time to acknowledge the contributions of black America. You know, because of the, century of oppression that the black community experienced after slavery. And so we want to acknowledge that we have been significant, citizens that contribute to the, American society and American culture. But, however, we don't want it to make it a month of black discrimination, whereas we discriminate against every other, ethnic group, and endeavor to just be, quote, unquote, black only. I'm not in favor of that. I don't want it to be a permanent, for lack of a better word, permanent Black Friday for black people. I don't think. I think we've taken a little bit too far with that. But there's nothing wrong with once, once again acknowledging the contributions of black Americans in this country, just like any other ethnic group. if they set aside months for other ethnic groups, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would acknowledge their contributions as well. As long as we don't go overboard with it.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a really balanced perspective because, you know, certainly we can respect and appreciate diversity, but we also don't have to go overboard and emphasize diversity at the suppression or the oppression of other categories. I mean, just, you know, just like we wouldn't want to, continue any sort of oppression, you know, that has been unfortunately part of America's history. And we can acknowledge that without then going overboard into, you know, some of the ways that the left wants to suggest that this is, you know, systemic racism and that all white people are guilty of being oppressors and, you know, some of this Marxist nonsense. So, you know, I think that that's, a really balanced way to look at it.

President Trump posted glowing tribute to Reverend Jesse Jackson last week

And you know, this comes at a time, that then just, last week, Reverend Jesse Jackson, passed away. And, it was really interesting to me that President Trump, actually posted kind of this, you know, glowing sort of, in memoriam of Jesse Jackson. And, I know that you knew him, personally. And, it seems like while, you know, he may have had some, contributions toward, you know, overall civil rights, I mean, you know, he was, very much in favor of, pushing more of a leftist Democrat, ah, agenda overall. And so did this surprise you that, that Trump was, you know, very, ah, glowing, which, you know, he doesn't pull punches. You know, if someone who was, listeners will remember Reagan's most prominent political opponents and, you know, attacked Reagan's leadership in accusing his policies of being. Being racist and, you know, some of these things.

Darrell Scott: Well, first of all, Jesse Jackson and I have been friends for A long time. I've known him, a little over 25 years. he was a great guy as far as I was concerned with me. And here's one thing people might not know, and I've told this story once or twice over the years back in 2015, when President Trump first announced his nomination, and I was there supporting him. In fact, Herman Cain and I were probably the. I think we opened up, and people wouldn't even know this hermit. Cain and I opened up the very first Trump rally down the back in 2015 down in Georgia. And I always thought it was interesting that people would call Trump a racist. And two black guys opened up his first rally. We opened it up, but Jesse Jackson told me, he told me to stick with President Trump back in 2015. He said, Listen, you stay over there with Donald. It's good that you're over there with him. Just in case he wins, we need one of our people in there with him. And so, you know, I didn't run, jump on the news and say, hey, Jesse Jackson told me to stick with Trump, but he did say that. And I know this also for a fact. During President Trump's first administration, Jesse Jackson called up to the White House a lot. He talked to the president a lot, and a lot of their conversations on a friend basis. but he did talk to him a lot. He, endeavored to advocate for some things. And, they were friends. Now, I Remember in the 2016 campaign, Jesse Jackson called President Trump a racist. And then what people don't know is he called him back and apologized to him personally on the phone. And to President Trump's credit, and this spoke to the type of person that he is. I remember he was on television and he said, a guy that I know, a longtime friend of mine, called me a racist in public. But, then he called me back and apologized, but he didn't put his name out there because they were friends. He didn't put his name out there. And I found that interesting because if that had been me, and he'd have called me a racist, I'd have screamed his name loud and long. But Jesse Jackson made his contributions to American society. He has his name etched in the history books of America. And as far as his Marxist m. Leftist policies were concerned, I guess after a while, you can get away from, your civil rights struggle and get more into your financial gain struggle.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, you know, and that, that's really fascinating context. And, you know, it's interesting, how Trump decides to, to go after People or not. I mean, he certainly pulled no punches on all of the nicknames and, you know, going after people who used to be friends and now he considers mortal enemies and some of these things. But, you know, occasionally, like this instance, you know, he's not as, public with. With some of these things. And that's one of the things that I really wish, Pastor Darrell, what was more known about Trump was some of these things that I think intentionally aren't in the media, like, but kind of this bigger picture of who Trump is, because I think his Persona in the media, intentionally, but then also almost overdone and sort of character characterized, by the media is, is to make him just this, like, revenge path, kind of, you know, you cross me once and I'll. I'm coming for you. but he really is overall, somebody. He's human, of course, but he's also somebody who does himself have, to an extent, a loyalty to people he considers, at least at this moment in time, friends. so that maybe that context maybe helps, understand why he gave kind of this, more glowing in memoriam of his friend, Jesse Jackson. And, you know, this also shows that while we can and should disagree with people on their viewpoints that are not grounded in biblical truth, and some of these, we can still, recognize their contributions overall to, to public service or to advancements of things. We do agree with. you know, it reminds me of when, Ruth Bader Ginsburg died and, you know, President Trump was willing to at least acknowledge the contributions she made, to the Supreme Court, the service. While, you know, I think she was one of the most terrible justices in history, based on her worldview, you can still think that while acknowledging that, you know, she still did a service to her country and she still, fulfilled a role that, as you mentioned, with Jesse Jackson, is etched in history. And that's true for every president. It's true for, you know, all of the prominent, people in our government and. All right, well, Pastor, Darryl Scott, we need to take a break here, but you are going to stay with me through the break, and we're going to come right back and talk, more about all of this and more right here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.

Pastor Darrell Scott is a Trump advisor and has been on political scene

 : Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: All right, we are back, and I am still here with my special guest this morning, Pastor Darrell Scott, who is a Trump advisor and has been on the political scene for years. You know, so. So speaking of Complicated figures. I also want to talk about, you know, and primarily the reason I invited you morning was a talk about Candace Owens, because, you know, this is somebody who, yeah, who, when we're talking about, you know, contributions to, you know, the conservative movement and, you know, the black community and all this, I had posted something last week, you know, replying, to someone else on X, saying, you know, Candace had one good thing to say, which was that, black people don't have to vote Democrat just because they're black. And she had this kind of whole, you know, you know, leave the plantation rhetoric. And because of that one thing, she was then propped up by the right as some, like, beacon of conservatism across the board. And I think is such a great example of why the Bible says, do not lay hands on anyone quickly. Or basically don't put them in positions of leadership quickly, because you haven't vetted them properly and you responded to this. And I actually thought was a very good, correction of my viewpoint to say, you know, she didn't even really have one good thing to say, and here's why. So explain to our audience why, even though, you know, for somebody like me who agrees overall with that position, that obviously, you know, you don't have to vote for any party based on the color of your skin, that Candace wasn't even actually articulating a conservative position, even with that.

Darrell Scott: Well, first of all, Candace to me was, from the very beginning, to me it was bogus, for lack of a better word. And, you know, her entire premise. First of all, Kansas was anti Trump in 2016, when people such as myself and Herman Cain and had a few people with me, Bruce Lavelle. There was just a handful of us blacks. And let me tell you something, people won't. You can't even put into words what we experienced from our community. myself, you know, half the congregation that I pastored left. they boycotted businesses that we had. We got death threats. People were following us home. People would show up, at our church and try to start mess and all of that. You know, we went through a whole lot of being bashed and vilified and crucified simply because we were black people supporting Trump. And we stood strong in the face of all that opposition with Candace was one of the ones on the other side after Trump won. All of a sudden, she claims to have some epiphany where she comes over to this side now. Her message was flawed from the very Beginning, I never used my quote, unquote, blackness. In other words, I was not a black prop Trump. And I never sat down and said, darryl, now I need you to try to convince other black people to vote for me. I said, my story was you can vote for whoever you want to vote for and I can vote for whoever I want to vote for. It was not just that I had the black, to vote Republican, but it was like, I can vote for whoever I want to. I don't have to vote Democrat. I can vote for whoever I want to and you can vote for whoever you want to. Now my candidate of choice is President Trump. My party of choice is Republican Party. And I didn't just start voting Republican. We, when Trump came along, I voted for Bush, I worked with his administration, I attended his inauguration, I did a number of things to support, that Republican candidate. So I wasn't new to this. Trump just gave us a little more visibility. But I always say this when I supported Trump. I met him back in 2012. He was going to run against Obama. I met him in 2011, excuse me, he was going to run against Obama. I was with him then. I would have been with, ah, I imagine what I would have took, man, if he'd have ran against a black dude and I was with him. But anyway, when he called me up and asked me was I still going to roll with him in 2015 and I told him yes, he was number 17 in a field of 17 candidates. Nobody gave him a chance. If Trump had lost and rolled off into the sunset, I would have rolled off into the sunset with him. He won. The rest is history. And so it wasn't like we were jumping on a gravy train. I was actually backing a losing horse for whatever people were like, why are you backing this guy? He's a clown, he's not going to win. He went from 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, all the way down till he won. But when I got with him, he was the odds on favorite to come in last place. Now Candace comes along after he won and she was platformed by certain people in the party, not President Trump, I can tell you that much. He was never really that close with her. They gave a perception that he was, but he wasn't at the time. He was a 70 year old man. She's in her 20s. There was only going to be but so much friendship or fellowship or camaraderie between them anyway. But she came along with this message and the message wasn't one of black empowerment. It was Not a message that was designed to say how a black person could get, uplifted by coming. It was, you're dumb, you're stupid, voting Democrats. You're slaves on the plantation. I remember in 2017, I went up to the RNC and told the heads of the RNC, don't use that terminology. You're slaves on a plantation. I said, because if you look at it, slavery was our holocaust. The plantation was our concentration camp. That language is offensive to black Americans. You can use a different message. When I began to work with them and we worked on urban revitalization, we had a message of economic and social empowerment, not a message of, you're dumb, you're stupid, I'm smart. She never said anything noteworthy about the black community. It was always black culture, bad black music, bad, black people bad. And what happened was the right would prop Candace up to say and to reinforce and to affirm every negative stereotype or idea that permeates white, America or, permeates the right. She would be the black voice of that. So people could point and say, well, listen, if she's saying it, it must be true. And I don't blame the people for, believing her. But if you notice, black people never embrace that the entire premise was flawed. And when you look at it, she had no results. You're talking about. If you were in 2017 and you're supposed to be this voice causing people to leave the Democratic Party and come over, to the Republican Party as a result of Candace's activities, what were the results? I told her back then, I said, candace, you got to give us. You got to track this. We don't see any results. How many voters. How many registered Democrat voters heard your message of blexit and became registered Republican voters? I challenged. I said, show me 100. And she got offended, of course, but you can't show me any measurable results. She would have her blexit meetings if she had 500 people in them. 495 were white or, Latino, but they would be anything other than black. And the blacks that were there were normally black Republicans. And then I said, okay, here we have almost 10 years gone by. So if you were speaking and she was working with TP USA and they claimed she was doing a great job. I always knew it was. It was non.

Candace Owens' message changed when Jewish backers pulled out support

It was fake anyway. But you're going in, let's say you were talking to college kids then that were 18 years old. Well, they're 27 years old now. They're 26, 27 years old now. Where is this mass influx of new Republican black voters that she, impressed? When they were college students, they became registered voters and now they're voting Republican. It's not there. The results aren't there. The results were never there, and the results will never be there. I'm not surprised at what she's doing now because when her black stick ran out by 2020's election, she had a lot of Jewish backers that I know personally that I tried to warn and they said I was jealous. I said, okay, you'll see. When they pulled out from backing her, that's when her message began to change because it was all financially based in the first place. Her message began to change when the money stopped flowing in for Blexit. And now I have to get it. She has to get another shtick, so to speak, to live off of. I never forget one time she asked me if I could get her into some black churches because she said, you know, I never really did the church thing. Now all of a sudden she's this pious, religious Catholic, and her Catholicism was the result of an intellectual decision, not, an experience, spiritual awakening or spiritual experience. So I find it amazing. I'm not surprised at what she's doing right now, Kirk's death. And she's going to, try to use that, actually it sad to say, it rejuvenated her career.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah.

Darrell Scott: Because, you know, she was going down, people weren't paying too much attention to her. But now she's jumped on that and it's one crazy conspiracy theory after another that causes her to get attention.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, I appreciate that wider context and you know, how the message, you know, for me, as somebody who, who heard that message, you know, back in 20, 16 and all of that, and, and, and took it more of the top line as I described it, which was, you know, okay, so you don't have to vote for Democrats, just because either, you know, you're black or you're female or you're lesbian or whatever, you know, like that, that to me made sense. But this, this deeper context that you're describing makes way more sense. And I think the overall lesson here, especially with people, you know, and not just Candace Owens, I mean, I think she's a, maybe the archetype example of the of the grifter, which is somebody who just goes to whatever sells, doesn't actually have conviction in their message. And when you see somebody who has changed their position over and over again in a very short period of time. I mean we're talking about, you know, a decade. I mean that's, that's pretty short. To change your position so many times, and to not genuinely at least it doesn't appear to be genuine. like you said, it's, it's more of a financial intellectual based decision rather than a genuine conversion of faith. that should make us pause and say, okay then why are we listening to this? Why are we rewarding this? And you know, as somebody who has, has been in, the public figure, you know, commentate media space and obviously, you know, work for President Trump, all of those things. you know, to me the whole idea of, of these influencers is really dangerous. in, in the sense that so many people do just drive to whatever the clicks are and whatever gets them the most financial reward instead of doing this for a good faith basis of saying, you know, we really believe so much in our message that we want to try to advocate for what's right, not necessarily what's just popular. And and so for Candace, and you know, we have listeners on this program that, you know, the few times that I talk about her will, you know, write in and be like, well, I love Candace for this and this reason, you know, okay, you can listen to her. You know, you have, you have that right in this country. But I would caution, listeners to understand more broadly and deeply, who it is that you're listening to and not necessarily that everything she's saying, you know, you, you have to disagree with just because she's saying it. I mean she could say, you know, the sun rises in the east, she'd be right. But that, but what I'm saying is look at the character of the person who's saying it. And Pastor Darrell, as you're wisely admonishing, you know, think critically and be very cautious. And so, you know, as I'm seeing a lot of this stu, you know, is just so heinously unnecessary against TPUSA and Erica Kirk. in particular, I just have to wonder, you know, the influence that she has in her life right now and her willingness to be that grotesque just for what apparently seems like just purely financial and popularity gain.

Darrell Scott: You're right. Because first of all, I question her motivation. Whenever you see someone's actions and you know this, you're a lawyer, you look for motive. Her motive is not the vindication of Charlie Kirk. Her motive is not uncovering the truth about Charlie Kirk. Because if it was, she would proceed down different lines instead of throwing every single person, she's throwing everything up against the wall to see what sticks, to see what gets the most shock. Oh, is this. Oh, that one. It was this one. It was conspiracy. Was an individual, this was that. And now she's going after his, his, widow, who's a mother who has had to deal with, her husband being assassinated. Very public. I know that's hard to deal with. I'll give an example. My sister, when my mother passed, my mother passed. She was 71 years old. My sister was in her 40s. But it took her on the loop and she said, now when m mommy died, I was messed up for a long time. And I could see she had begun to engage in some self destructive behavior back then. And I could see it. And anyone who has experienced the death of a loved one, it can be traumatic. And that grief process for everyone is different. But here's someone that has had to put her game face on and go out in public and face mass as someone that it's hard enough, Jenna, you know, this public speaking is hard enough as it is. people think it's easy until you ask them to get up there and do it. And so she's had to go out and face thousands and thousands of people, a lot of media scrutiny, and try to put a game face on. And you ask yourself, I, what kind of presentation is she going to be? Is she going to come out and break down in tears in front of everybody? Is she going to come up and try to smile in the face of her grief? Is she going to come out and try to have a brave, bold face on and still provide leadership for this organization? Or what is she going to do? And then you have someone sitting over there just trying to attack if she blinks her eyes and different things. And you have to say, what is the motivation for this? Because to be quite honest, when Candace first left TP usa, she would not even talk to Charlie Kirk. How do I know this? Because people might not believe me because I was their mediator. She would talk to me and to talk to Charlie, Charlie would talk back to me because she would not take his cause and he would be to me. Well, what did she say? Well, what did she say now? I was mediating between the two. And so now this grand Charlie and I were secretly or secretly married or whatever, whatever secret, whatever her flavor

 Auron MacIntyre : of the controversy relationship she said they

Darrell Scott: had, it didn't exist. And the people close to Charlie know it didn't exist. The last time I saw Charlie was about a year ago. This time he and I actually were, at Mar a Lago together, sitting at the table watching a football game together. We had put our differences aside. We had agreed to disagree for the sake of the party, for our differences. And you know me, how I am. I got to laugh at saying certain things about Candace. He would shake his head and just laugh.

Jenna Ellis: People are taken in by what she's saying

I know for a fact they weren't as close as he's trying to make it now. But she's found something to, you know, to, to jump on, to springboard off to what, whatever it is that gives her satisfaction.

Jenna Ellis: Clicks like cash and, and Pastor Darrell, we gotta, we, you know, we're coming up against a heartbreak here. But I, I appreciate your wider context, you know, the depth, the personal knowledge that you have. And you know, at some point you'll have to join my for maybe a deeper dive into this because, you know, I think there's a lot here that regular listeners just don't know. You know, they are, I think taken in by what she's saying because it's juicy, it's drama, and unfortunately a lot of people are, gravitate towards that. But they need to be cautious and careful and understand, you know, that you know, this isn't in my opinion, good faith, motivated whatsoever. In fact, it's the complete opposite. It's, it's total bad faith. But I really appreciate you joining this morning. and ah, listeners can follow you on X and you know, get your book as well. And I really appreciate your time this morning. so thanks very much and we'll be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis.

Darrell Scott: Thank you. God bless you.

Jenna Ellis: Thank you. God bless.

Darrell Scott: Foreign.

President Trump reportedly asked advisors about JD Vance or Marco Rubio for 2028

 : Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And speaking of the future of MAGA and the Republican Party, the question that Trump has been asking advisors about 2028 is JD or Marco? And this isn't really surprising, for those of us who have maybe, you know, are too involved and in depth with politics. But JD Vance has never been really a foregone conclusion in terms of the possible Republican nomination in 2028. Because we all know, and especially, you know, someone who previously worked for Trump, he tends to not make decisions until, really he has to. And he keeps his options open. He, looks at everything that's going on, around him. And so while he's obviously spoken very highly and favorably of J.D. vance. And Marco has, I think, wisely in order not to, cause any political tensions during the administration while he Secretary of state. And J.D. vance is, ah, Vice President Marco has, you know, declined and said, you know, I'm not running, I'm not running. Well, things can change. So, according to Axios, this is the question and President Trump has been asking on advisors and confidants, JD Vance or Marco Rubio. And if you know anything about President Trump, he tends to pull a very, very, very wide audience when he's interested in a topic. He tends to talk to everyone from his inner circle, senior advisors that actually work for him, to all of, you know, his friends and family. And so, why this matters. Trump of course is focused on his legacy, as the last midterm elections approach. But he also is focused on 2028 and having a kind of worthy successor in the way that, you know, the MAGA movement will continue and it won't just basically be, oh, this was the era basically from 2015 to 2028. And then we're moving into a different, form of the Republican Party thereafter. so that's really the interesting question, I think for Republicans and conservatives at this moment is how much of the party actually wants to move away from a Trump dominated party or how many of those believe that Trump really should be in control as kind of a President emeritus and who may be best, fit to carry that standard. And currently it looks like between Vance and Rubio.

Oren McIntyre: Rubio is seen as best fit to carry on Trump legacy

But let's welcome into the discussion Oren McIntyre, who is host at the Blaze, and you can follow him for all of his very quippy and interesting, thoughts and comments on X as well. But Orin, you know, this is a really interesting debate right now because, you know, back in 2015, Rubio of course ran against Trump and certainly was not a Trump world populist, you know, MAGA red hat wearing guy at the time. And yet now, there's a huge segment of the right that actually sees him as best fit to carry on the work of President Trump because he's just been so phenomenally successful, as Secretary of State. And so how do you see kind of all of this, shaping out?

 Auron MacIntyre : Thing to remember is that, you know, leading into Trump's election, a lot of people on the right, a lot of commentators, many conservatives said, I'm worried that this party will become a tool of Trump, it will become a vehicle for his personality, that it'll become a cult personality and will no longer be a conservative party as such. And as much as people might not want to hear this, the truth is that for the majority of Trump voters, that's just true. Donald Trump is the animating force. When we look at elections, when we look at midterms, we look at endorsements, it's very clear that Trump's voters turn out for Trump, and they turn out sometimes for people Trump is excited about. And that's really about it. the actual support for the Republican Party in general is rather low. And you can see this from the Democrats as well. No matter how, much Trump's, approval ratings start to dip, the Democrats seem to dip lower because the party, recognition is worse than the individual leader. And so I think when we're looking at this, we have to recognize that Trump's, desire, you know, whoever he kind of coordinates, is very likely going to receive that electoral momentum. Now, any, primary could get wild. Different things could come up. You know, the dynamics could change. But I think that will be the starting point. Whoever he gives the nod to, if he decide, maybe he decides he, he's not going to give a nod to anybody, but whoever he indicates, I think will have a massive advantage. and so, in that vein, I do think that J.D. vance is probably the more likely selection from him. But as you say, Rubio's performance has had a lot asking questions about whether he could change the momentum of kind of that legacy by shifting to a different era.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and, you know, I think it's a really fascinating discussion because, you know, so many people do see, and I think rightly so, Vance is sort of an heir apparent in the sense that he came about, in terms of his, political life, with Trump. And Rubio, of course, had a really, was a long standing, nationally known political figure prior to Donald Trump. And, so where that exactly fits in terms of Trump's legacy, there may be some skepticism that Rubio would, would, actually fit into kind of a Trump model in terms of, listening to him on a lot of things, after Trump left office. But, but overall I see Rubio as a little bit more of a unifying force than Vance, for a couple of reasons, but primarily because of longevity. I mean, he has had wide experience as, you know, first in the state legislature in Florida, then, you know, in the US Senate for a really long time, now Secretary of State, and then rising, to the presidency seems like a really natural fit. so many of my friends and you Know, few that I really respect in terms of their biblical worldview of politics. ardently supported Rubio in the 2016 election, which is very interesting. And they still have a very incredibly high view of Rubio, friends, you know, here, even in Florida, politics really like Rubio and so he wouldn't just be seen as the heir apparent to Trump and almost like a third term of Trump like Vance might be, but really that someone who has all of the knowledge, but then also the friendship and relationship with Trump to kind of blend, you know, sort of all factions of, maybe a disjointed, non cohesive base. And I see him, I see Rubio as more of a unifying figure than Vance, for that reason, but then also for someone, you know, like a Ron DeSantis, who I'm a huge fan of. I supported, of course, in the 2024 primary. but even more so than somebody like a DeSantis who hasn't. Has a great friendship with Trump but hasn't worked for him directly and isn't seen as being really a part of the MAGA movement. So I kind of see Rubio as, as blending the best of, you know, some of those, those viewpoints and maybe being a cohesive leader, but then also having independently from Trump, a cohesive conservative worldview and experience beyond just kind of rising up through the ranks through maga. So I, I would support Rubio, you know, personally, just in my own personal capacity. I would love to see him become president. I think we have a wide bench, though. I'd love to see DeSantis become president. you know, we have a few people, but I think that Rubio is pretty uniquely situated.

 Auron MacIntyre : Well, I agree that he is probably, for all the reasons you listed, the consensus more perhaps establishment, candidate there. He has the ability, as you say, to possibly bridge the gap that has, been created between MAGA world and some of the conservative incorporated institutions, institutions, the, the mainstream stuff. I think that's probably true. I think Ted Cruz would really be their only other option. And I don't think, despite what he seems to believe, I don't think he really has a chance, in 2028. However, I think that is also Rubio's greatest liability. Because while I think it's, you know, a lot of us who have, you know, I remember watching Marco Rubio give speeches as the speaker of the House when I was in college in Tallahassee. you know, so, you know, I've been familiar with Rubio for years. And he is very strong and, you know, has a lot of experience in certain areas. But he is, as you say, someone who came late to the Trump movement. His most famous immigration move until he joined the Trump administration was trying to get amnesty. you know, that was kind of what he was known for. he's not been great on, you know, a number of issues that MAGA cared about before he came over to Trump. Now, to be fair, that's true of many people, so that doesn't isolate him at all. But it does create a scenario where people have to ask, you know, is he going to, you know, I wanted the Trump legacy, is he going to carry that through? Great. He's going to be his own man. But what if his own man is the guy who's voting for amnesty? What if the guy who's listening to Trump is the one who says we need to shut down the border? You know, that that's a huge swing on what could be the only issue for Republican voters for the next 10 years until we get some kind of immigration moratorium and so on. The things that are critical to maga, I do think that Vance has a bit of advantage. You know, there's also the other aspect of, you know, much of what people in mainstream conservatism like about Rubio is his aggressiveness in that State Department role. However, outside of the very small traditional conservative base, Trump's foreign policy has been, you know, relatively controversial among his supporters who came in for more, like the Maha movement, the end of foreign wars, these kind of things, those are the things that they worry about with the administration. And so Rubio's strength in those areas are not necessarily strengths for them. So I think he, if he wants to attract those people, he needs to shed the baggage. And the idea that he has this open borders passed, that he's, a neoconservative, you know, and those things, are concerns he's going to need to tame if he wants to retain critical parts of Trump's base, or he's going to need to find votes elsewhere because, losing those critical pillars of Trump's support would be devastating for the Republican Party.

Jenna Ellis: Sure. And, you know, and he certainly does have, you know, some of those liabilities for, you know, people who are just the die hard, you know, MAGA supporters. But, you know, speaking of being late to the game, I mean, that also, in fairness, perfectly describes J.D. vance. I mean, he was very adamantly a never Trumper until, you know, kind of five minutes ago when he decided to run, you know, for Senate, wanted that endorsement and has done, you know, kind of that extreme flip, flop of saying, okay, now I'm fully, maga I mean, he's done a really brilliant job, I think, as Vice President, being a good spokesperson, but not overshadowing Trump, and so to solidify him as M. Maga I think he's done a really good job. But if we're comparing, you know, kind of the past and being late to the game, he certainly was not, you know, a day one Trump, ah, supporter. And so, you know, that plus his inexperience and in my opinion, his biggest liability, beyond, you know, he really didn't have, he doesn't have, you know, any experience in the executive branch other than being vice president. he was not in the Senate that long. I mean, he's comparatively, with Rubio, is just not at all as experienced, in management, executive capacity, or even just, the legislative. But, to me, his biggest liability is how much funding he has had from the tech world and people like Peter Thiel and some of these that will, push an agenda. And some of the independence that Rubio has from Trump, I think is actually a benefit to him to say, listen, I'm, you know, 100% MAGA now I get, you know, Trump's direction, why the base, you know, really supports him, was privileged to work for his administration and kind of characterized himself almost as like a Trump 2.0 going in, saying, you know, but there were. And acknowledging a couple of, you know, maybe the missteps of the Trump administration that he can then point to his prior record and say, I'm steering this a little bit away from the extreme populism, you know, not as far as going back to the, the Republican establishment and all that, but I have friends that I can whip to be helpful, you know, and I can kind of collaborate on, you know, some of those and bring everybody to the table with those relationships. But he can kind of steer this back to a, a more conservative direction than just the populist tack that Vance seems to, at least right now, be fully, ah, sold. Sold out to. So, that to me is his biggest liability.

 Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, no, I. You're of course correct that Vance, like many, changed his mind on Trump. He did a little earlier than Rubio. But it's a fair point to say that both men have moved quite a bit on this. I'm not sure that, any connection to feel would have any serious impact in the popular mind. you know, any more than, Rubio getting donors from somewhere else, which, he most assuredly does, isn't going to sway people necessarily against Rubio. I think that the experience charge is probably going to be lost to most people. Even if what you're saying true is true. When you look at, the resume of both men, most people are going to. The average voter is going to look at vice president and say that is a man who has had a higher rank and therefore more experience. even if that might necessarily be the case, I think that's just going to be the natural reaction. So it's only going to be inside baseball people, to which, you know, that, that part sells.

JD Vance: The future of the Republican Party will trend more populist

The biggest thing is the last one that you mentioned there, which really puts Rubio in the same boat that honestly, DeSantis was, right. Like DeSantis was supposed to be Trump without Trump. He's supposed to be the, he can push back against the establishment. He can, you know, kind of hit the media, you know, push it, push a stronger agenda, but without all the baggage, without the personality, without being as populist. And you know, that just did not work for DeSantis at all. Now, Rubio and DeSantis are not the same candidate. Perhaps Rubio is more charismatic, he has, more likability, maybe, I don't know. but those were the things that I think often hurt, DeSantis the most. But the real problem DeSantis had was he just wasn't Trump. And there is no Trump without Trump. And so the interesting thing about 2028 is, okay, once Trump is off the board, what do people want? Once you no longer have that one charismatic, figure who can carry a room, who can dominate the media cycle, who can do all these things that are really no one even not Vance, not Rubio, nobody, DeSantis, none of them are doing what Trump is doing. Once that very unique one time piece is off the board, what does the chessboard look like? And that's, that's the real question. I think that, the future of American politics is going to remain populist. I don't think that our establishment is fixing almost any of the long term problems that people in our society are facing. Trump administration has got somewhat of a handle on immigration, which is amazing and the most important issue to me. So I'm fantastic, you know, very excited that they're getting that done. But when it comes to cost of living, when it comes to education, when it becomes to things like, you know, popular morale, deaths of despair. These things are not improving under Trump or Biden or anyone else because these are long term problems that have been built on for decades and one president can't unsettle, spool them. So I think that Republican donors are going to want a track back to the middle. They're going to, they want to get a little closer to the neocon strategy, to the establishment strategy, get a little further away from the America first and the populist stuff. I think that's been clear since Trump got elected. The Republican Party is just still largely anti Trump. They'll say, yeah, I'm pro Trump, but they vote against him. They won't confirm his nominees, they won't pass any of his agenda. He has do everything for executive order because despite having, you know, control of all of the legislative apparatus, we can't pass anything. you know, I just don't think that ultimately most of the Republican Party wants to see Trump or JD Vanliere Fare, which is why we kind of saw the whole conservative civil war thing kick up in the first place. Even Ted Cruz was, you know, it was reported that he was inflaming it as much as possible because he thought it increased his chances to peel away support from MAGA and Trump's legacy and JD Vance. So with all of that kind of happening behind the scenes, to the public, you might have some impact there. But ultimately I think that the voters will continue to trend in a populist direction and it would be wise for Rubio or Vance to anticipate, that rather than try to curb that in some way.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, you know, I think, for better or worse, I think you're right, Oren McIntyre, that the future of the Republican Party will trend more populist, at least unless and until, you know, someone who has the popularity, ironically of Trump, comes in and can convince, especially the younger generation, differently and maybe steer things back to more of a balanced, conservative viewpoint. But, but it's going to be really interesting to see, you know, Vance or Rubio, or you know, maybe somebody else. I mean, you know, we're still three years out, but we're still talking about this and I think we're going to talk about it especially after the midterms, but incredibly important to think about, you know, the future of the Republican Party. So, we're already out of time. But thanks so much, for your commentary or in McIntyre, you can follow him on X, also on the Blaze. And as always you can reach me and my team, jenna fr.net.