Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator
Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
This weekend marks America's 250th anniversary celebrating the blessings of liberty
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Thursday, July 2, and we are all preparing for celebrating this weekend, America's 250th anniversary, the semi quincentennial, if you want to get technical. And there's a lot to discuss around that because while we are all celebrating and as we should, this is a wonderful opportunity to, review the blessings of liberty. Where we've been, where we are going and you know, of course, ah, what work we still have to do to create a more perfect union. this is an opportunity to kind of take stock of America and to say, okay, what are some of the things that, we are doing right and we're doing correct and in line with the mandate that our founders originally provided in our Declaration of Independence, our founding documents, and of course our Constitution. And then what things, have we not gotten right that perhaps we need to focus on in, the immediate sense so that we can have another 250 years of the blessings of liberty? Because God, ultimately for his own sovereign purposes, allowed America to be founded. this, I believe, is the greatest nation, in the history of the world we have. We are the only nation that is founded, spirit, specifically on the recognition that our rights come from God our Creator, not our government. And the sole purpose of government is to preserve and protect those rights. And because of that, we have experienced, the greatest opportunity for liberty, ordered liberty, which is important, not just this, free for all in liberty, defined as licentiousness or, you know, every man according to his own whim. But ordered liberty, the understanding of that triangle of freedom that liberty requires, faith, and faith, ultimately requires virtue, and then virtue requires freedom. And understanding how all of that works together, is important to pass on to the next generations. And where we are right now, I think there are a lot of people who do understand that. But, then there's a large segment of the, the American population that really doesn't understand that and would see freedom and liberty in a different light. And we're at a moment of perhaps a clash between the socialist Democrat left that's trying to reinvent America into a completely different society, and, they want to undermine the founding documents they want to reinterpret. It suggests that the Constitution is a fluid document. And then you have those of us who recognize that America was founded on Christian values and because of that confines us in our law and society to a certain reality, which is that the laws of nature and of nature's God are paramount and still guide us. And because of that, we, can advocate only within certain contours and parameters of the law. And the left is holding wholly outside of that.
Mike Donnelly: America celebrates 250th birthday on Saturday
So let's welcome in Mike Donnelly, who is an attorney and professor and fellow, ranter and also philosopher and someone that, you know, I love talking to all of these things, ah, about. And Mike, you know, give me kind of your 30,000 foot perspective of where we stand right now as we are set to celebrate America's 250 on Saturday.
Mike Donnelly: Jenna, good morning. And to those listening, happy birthday, America, and I hope you're having a wonderful day. It's always great to be with you and with Jenna to talk about these important issues that our country faces, that our children face, that our grandchildren face. a great country has great opportunity and great responsibility. great countries have great problems too. And, I don't want to be a downer, but we've got a lot of things that need to be discussed and, fixed in our country if we're going to hand on, this country to our kids and they're going to have the same opportunities that we had, and that those before us had our posterity. And so as I reflect back, I think it's important to reflect back to the beginning. What was the vision that the founders had? What was it that compelled them to take that momentous step on, July 4, 1776, to pledge their honors, their lives, their sacred fortune to this great cause of liberty, separating from the greatest empire that the world had known at that point, and to create a new country. And, it's in the Declaration of Independence. And I would just, I would encourage anyone listening, you know, as you are out celebrating on July 4th, and isn't it great that it's on a Saturday this year? Love it. and as you're with family and friends, pull out that declaration and anybody who'll listen, go around and read it, maybe share it with your kids, let them read a little bit of it, or you read it to them. that's a tradition. I'VE had for years. I try to get whoever will listen, you know, as the kids get older, you can't. You can't make them listen. So I invite people to come and I'll read the Declaration. And, you know, it's just, I think it's important to remember that pause and, you know, it's in there.
The Constitution was founded on the recognition that our rights come from God
What was it? What was it the founding that has carried us through? I think, you know, one, it was a clear understanding of where our rights come from. You know, the Founders recognized that our rights come from God, you know, that, we have certain unalienable rights. Right. And where do they come from? They come from nature's God. And so when the Founders made that decision. And it wasn't just the founders, you know, it was the people of this country, 95% of whom were born again Christians, in my view of history. And they realized that it was going to take a firm reliance on God to see this through. And so, you know, let's think about what their vision was. And it was a vision of self governance that we the people, which, you know, they later put that into the Constitution. And we the people do hereby ordain and establish this Constitution in the United States. Right. That came after the Articles of Confederation. You know, it took us 20 years, 15 years or so to fight the war and then create the Constitution that we now enjoy. Maybe we can talk about that a little bit. But, I think that, you know, that's just. Those are just a few thoughts that I have and I'll just stop rambling for a while and you can redirect where you want to go. Jenna.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, no, it's a great, rambling because, you know, it's so true that we need to read the founding documents and, and in fact, on tomorrow's show, I'm going to go, further in depth in, in the Declaration and the Constitution and talk about, you know, what, what it is that we actually celebrate on July 4th, beyond, you know, the hot dogs and fireworks and family gatherings, which are great, that's part of the blessings of liberty. But what the founders recognized and understood at, the inception of America is I think, bound up in the preamble when it says that we the people of, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, our children, our descendants, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. And that came after the Declaration which says that we hold truth to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and that we understand that God is the highest authority. The declaration recognizes God as the supreme judge of the universe and recognizes that the powers and authorities of man are lesser than gods and that they are limited and that even a king cannot simply do whatever he wants and infringe upon the most basic rights that are given by God himself. And so you know, the question in the 250th anniversary that most people ask, even some Christians are you know, where is God in the Constitution? And you know, we don't see that term anywhere. And you know I've even over the last several days on social media, I've gotten you know, kind of that pushback in the context of of Texas saying that you know, we're requiring certain Bible passages to be read in public school. And it's like how dare you, as a Christian nation that was founded on the recognition our rights coming from God, actually read the text that is at the foundation of all of that. You know, how dare us as a Christian nation. And the answer of course Mike, is that God is everywhere in our founding documents and the Constitution is just the nuts and bolts of how we distribute and limit powers on the federal level. But originally the the, the Declaration, of course the Federalist Papers, I mean all of the writings of the founders recognized that, that God is at the foundation and specifically recognizes him. And the blessings of liberty, the blessings that can only come from God. I mean that's right there in the preamble of the U.S. constitution. And then it's just the, the actual lot, self, the distribution. And in the, the original 13 colony states constitutions, God is explicit. I mean there, there is even a recognition of Christianity as the religion of the state. I mean all of these things go back to God being at and necessary for a union that is a constitutional republic, for a more perfect union. But also God is at the, it must be at the center and at the foundation of self government. Because we can't have a self governing society without recognizing that we are all under God's authority. Otherwise what, what happens is what I think we're seeing today with this kind of coexist nonsense that everyone's different view of reality and view of self government and what we should be able to permit and prohibit in society is different and that just doesn't work. And so we have to get back in it. So I think the question to you is, you know, how do you answer that? Pushback? When people say, well, God isn't anywhere, you know, in the text of the Constitution? Well, he's everywhere.
Mike Donnelly: Well, of course, I mean, look, the founders had incredible biblical literacy, you know, and they understood the lessons of history and the context of Rome, of Greece. They were very well read. They were highly educated. you know, we didn't have the current public school system, which is dumbing America down and captured by the left, and you know, teaching our children, you know, that socialism is better than capitalism, and that can only happen when people hand their children over to a centralized government. But the founders were very well read, very well educated in that respect, from the Bible, and they understood the problem and the concerns of centralization of power. I mean, they were living it, which is why they were going to leave the British Empire. And they knew that just like when Israel said, hey, we want a king like all the other people around us, the founders realized that centralization of power is a threat to any people and every people. And that was the thing that was happening, under King George. And they said, we can't do this anymore. The king is, you know, he's the central authority, and he's doing things to us that are wrong. They conflict with our values. It isn't working for us. And so they said, we've got to. We've got to make the break. And Jon Adams said this. You know, anybody listening to your show more than three times has heard this. You know, our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other. And that's. That is from a letter. The hero to the 3rd Massachusetts militia. It's a great letter. It's a short letter. I highly encourage people to read it because there's context in that letter that I think makes that statement, you know, more real, explains the context. He said, you know, we have great freedom, but in our sin nature, we want more than God. You know, God allows for us to have to live the flourishing life when we live according to God's principles, right? And we exercise discipline over the sin nature. You know, we can flourish better. And you look around your family, you look around our country, and you see what happens when people don't control the sinful nature. Drugs, all the other, you know, illicit things that are happening in our country, people want to legalize, the things that, you know, the Bible calls, you know, great sin. And so, you know, centralization is a danger. And that when you look at our history. I think that is the. That is the theme that I believe we have to understand if we're going to redirect the path of this country, and enjoy the blessings of liberty and pass that on to our children. Now, Ronald Reagan said, he's a great quote. People have probably heard this too. And you show up, you listen more than twice. You know, freedom isn't free. Right? It isn't passed to us in the bloodstream from our parents. Freedom is something that has to be fought for, each generation to pass on to the one that comes next to our posterity. And the threat to true freedom, freedom, biblical freedom, freedom in Christ, freedom from sin. Right. Is an understanding of that principle that if we do not control ourselves, we do not discipline ourselves personally, then our lives can go in a very bad direction. Well, that's true for our country as well. And that's what has happened. We have not controlled ourselves. We have allowed ourselves constitutionally. we've made changes to the constitution, like the 16th and the 17th amendment, for example. Just an example. The, federal government, through the courts, has been allowed to expand to a point that the founders would, you know, be aghast at what they see in terms of the size and scope of the federal government, going from, you know, maybe 7% of GDP 100 years ago to 23, 24% of GDP now.
The federal government was designed to address things that are national in nature
you know, the federal government was designed to really address things that are national in nature, truly national in nature. And what does it do now? Everything. It provides welfare, it takes money from businesses, it redirects flows of money all over the place to things that it should never be doing according to the Constitution. But it has a lot. The federal government has allowed that to happen through its three, parts of government. Right, the three parts of government. And they've all allowed themselves to expand to the point we have. So I think that's one of the biggest threats that our country faces and that we've got to grapple with.
Jenna Ellis: So. Well said. And we've got to take a break here, but I'm speaking with, Mike Donnelly, who's an attorney and, and who is a philosopher, of course, and, and a. An expert in the, the arena of constitutional law, American philosophy. And, we're Talking about America's 250th anniversary, where we've come and where we're going. And so we will be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
Jenna Ell: American government was originally designed to be limited
Welcome back to Jenna Ell in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest, Mike Donnelly. And we're talking about America's 250th anniversary. And before the break, Mike, you know, we've kind of. We got into, some of just I mean, scratching the surface of where we have gotten off of the foundation and the recognition that all authority comes from God, that we need to a society in the three spheres that God has ordained. The church government, the family government and the civil government, must be under his authority in order to be legitimate and in order for human beings to flourish and not have those government systems, be abusive or infringe upon our rights or to not function properly. And so, for today, of course, we're talking about the civil government and we're talking about how we, were originally designed to be a nation that would govern. Christians would under. Would govern up a people who understood that our rights come from God and would limit the power of government to provide the most freedom, which, of course, as Os Guinness defines liberty and freedom, it's not the right just to do what we want, but the, right to do what we ought. And so not having government restraining us from raising our children, in the fear and admonition of the Lord, not restraining us from going to church, not restraining us from living our lives according to the will of God, not restraining us from teaching others in society, bringing them into a saving knowledge of God, and in fact encouraging that. And so when we actually look at where our civil government, was and the distribution and separation of powers, which is, you know, as Justice Scalia once famously said, the best thing about American government isn't just our First Amendment, or even our Second Amendment. Those are great things as well. But the fact that we separate and limit the authority of government. And we did that in the very beginning. But as time went on, we have increasingly given more and more and more power to the federal government. And the states have yielded, their powers to the federal government and individuals even. I mean, there are, There are powers of government that are actually reserved through the Constitution to we the people. And we have this mentality now in 2026 that we didn't in 1776, that the federal government can do basically whatever it wants. Congress can legislate anything it wants. The, the executive, maybe depending on, you know, whether you like, the president or not, you know, has so much authority, even some authority that should be in the legislative branch only or should be, among the states, and then especially the federal judiciary. The Supreme Court can literally rule on any topic that it wants and can hamstring the other two branches and can tell the rest of America what we can and can't do as basically a mini star chamber. and this is not how it was originally designed. And so when we're talking specifically about the federal government, I mean, this is something that should be so much more limited and was limited originally. Just, you know, I mean, and we only have the hour this morning, but, you know, how did we get there philosophically, in America? I mean, what has happened over the last 250 years that we as a people basically have turned the federal government into this monster that it was never intended and not created to, to be.
Mike Donnelly: Oh, wow, Jana, such a great question. And, you know, so I watched the Netherlands game, for the World Cup. It was like, it went on till midnight and some great soccer going on for those who love soccer. And of course, the Netherlands, are the Dutch people. So I'm bringing it around to the dyke analogy, because that is exactly what has happened. You know, everybody knows the story of the little boy in the dike. You know, there's a. There's a one hole and he puts his finger in, and then there's 10 holes, and then he can't hold back the water anymore. Well, how does water cut through a dike? One hole, two holes, three holes. And if you don't plug those holes, it's going to erode, and then suddenly you're going to have a flood. And that's what's happened with our Constitution, with our constitutional republic. It's been breaches over the decades. And, you know, Jenna, I just want to point people to the anti Federalist papers, Brutus number 15, because Brutus called it. he wrote about the judiciary. And Hamilton said, oh, no. In the Federalist Papers, Hamilton said, oh, the judiciary will be the weakest of all. When you look at the Constitution, Article 3 has the fewest number of words which should mean the least amount of power. In Article 1, the legislative branch has all these enumerated powers. It's massive power, although enumerated. Maybe we can come back to that. But Brutus said, oh. Brutus said to Hamilton, he's like, dude, you don't get it. Judges will be more powerful than any other branch or person because they will have lifetime appointments, and a, judiciary by case, by case will expand and it will become more powerful than any other power under heaven. And man, was he right? And so it Wasn't just the judiciary, though, although I would say that the judiciary enabled it. Because what do people want, Jenna? People want power, right? That was the, Israelites. They wanted a king because they wanted to be powerful. People got together, they built the Tower of Babel. Why? They wanted to make a name for themselves. They wanted to have power, they wanted to control. They want to be strong. And the natural sinful tendency of us humans is to centralize power and to use power and to accumulate more of it. And that has to be fought against. And the founders, as you pointed out, what they did was separate power, but power. You know, people in power, they want to come back together, you know, and they have. And it's been mutual. The Congress has done certain things, the executive has done certain things. And the judicial branch at the federal level, and you can see this to a degree also in the states, you see this happening in different levels. And it's a tendency to centralize power. And so, you know, the federal government has done that. It has done it to the. At the expense of the state. And remember, it's not just the separation of powers and the Constitution within and among the federal government's branches. It was also this idea of dual sovereignty. The founders split up the power of the sovereign, which is we the people, because we do have a lot of power. And so we're going to put some of it, expressly delegate some of it to the federal government, and we're going to split that up even more and distribute it around and then the rest of it. you were referring to the 10th Amendment. We're going to reserve to the people and to the states. And the states were the ones that really came together to form the United States. And so they retained the largest share of power. But when you look at where we are today, where is the largest share of power? Well, you can measure in lots of different ways, but I choose to measure it mostly in the amount of money that comes out of our pocket. Where does it go, the bulk? A lot of it goes to the federal government, probably most of it through a variety of different taxes, and then our property taxes and state income taxes, the smallest share. So just on that measure alone, you see where the power is. It has become re centralized. And that entity, the federal government, protects its power. And yes, they fight amongst themselves. You'll see the Supreme Court fight against the executive branch, although right now we've got, you know, a Supreme Court that's somewhat more supportive of executive authority under the Constitution. And we can talk about some of those things. But by and large the federal government circles the wagons and they said and says, as opposed to anybody else, we're going to expand and protect our power. And I think that's, that's the problem we have. And if we want to fix that, we're going to have to deal with some structural issues, in our country, including the Constitution.
I wonder if we have what it takes to do it
And I, I just wonder if we have what it takes to do it. I don't know. But we've got to talk about it. And hopefully the next generation can catch a vision for refounding and reforming our country based on what the founders offer. Because if it doesn't, we're just going to continue to go down this path. And it's not a, it's a dark path. It's not a, it's not a good path.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
Mike Donnelly: We need to acknowledge problems in the original Constitution
And I love Mike Donnelly that you brought up, the anti Federalist papers because, when we're talking about the Constitution in the original, context and the original text, that it was ratified, a lot of us and I think it's correct of us to say, you know, this was the greatest legal document, in the history of governing. I mean, we can look to other legal documents like the Magna Carta that have had an amazing and profound effect on Western civilization. We obviously can look when we're talking about, you know, documents created by man, that pointed to and point still, to the eternal word of God. And yet we do need to recognize and acknowledge that because this isn't biblical text, it's not inspired and inerrant and sufficient and all of the things that the Bible is, there are and even were at the inception errors. And of course the left loves to point that out when they talk about, you know, the three fifths compromise and how, you know, slavery was still legal. So how can we possibly have been a good nation? And you know, those, those questions are, you know, easily resolved and not for today. But the point being, Brutus's essay raised arguments that still remain deeply influential in American legal and political philosophy. Fee because he was talking about the lack of accountability for the judicial branch, irreversible decisions, that the Supreme Court decisions are final unless they reverse themselves, there is no accountability. And so that superiority to the legislature was and still is a problem in the original text of the Constitution. And so while we as originalists, as conservatives, love the Constitution and talk so often about how great our system of government is, we still do need to acknowledge even the problems that were implicit in the Founding era and of the original Constitution and how those problems have only metastasized into greater ones today because they haven't been resolved in the way that the founders originally intended, which was through the amendments process. The amendments process in article 5 and this has been used 27 times in our nation's history to amend the Constitution. Instead of creating a more perfect union, instead of using that to provide more accountability to the judiciary, to ensure that the federal government, didn't become this huge behemoth that it is in order to ensure that we're protecting the liberties of self government to the greatest degree. Instead of using the amendment's process how it was intended, we've used the amendments process to for the exact opposite reason. You mentioned, you know, the 16th and 17th amendments, those were two of the greatest disasters in American legal history. we still haven't corrected the issue of the lack of accountability for the U.S. supreme Court. And so even this week we've been discussing, you know, these huge decisions that have a profound impact on America. And it shouldn't be that the U.S. supreme Court, you know, we wait to get these decisions on high like it's Moses descending, you know, from Mount Sinai with the tablets. I mean this isn't how the Supreme Court should operate. And so how can we start to philosophically, I think among originalists, have this idea that Brutus was willing to have. And I would encourage everyone read the Federalist and the anti Federalist papers. This gives you context and kind of a legislative history of the Constitution and what the arguments were for and against the ratification of the Constitution in its original form and be willing to say, okay, here are some problems that have gotten even stronger and maybe, just maybe it's time to actually use the amendments process the way that it was designed to create a more perfect union to correct those problems, to perhaps, you know, redistribute some of those powers. Like with the Supreme Court for example, we could take away the power of the US President to nominate, we could take away the lifetime appointments, that, that power if we wanted to. Right? There are so many ways that we could write this ship of America moving forward and sailing into the next 250 years if we really wanted to. But then to your point, Mike, do we have the will as an American society to take a really hard look at our Constitution, at our current society and say, okay, these are the problems that we need to correct and let's states, let's go and let's actually make a difference
Mike Donnelly: so, such a great point, Jenna. And I'm, of course, very favorable to, convening a convention of states to have that conversation. But, you know, you and I share so many views, and we gotta realize that there are a lot of people who do not share our views. I don't know that it's a majority, but I also think that a majority of people have not really thought about this. The schools don't teach it. Where do people have these kinds of conversations if not listening on the radio to your show? Most talk shows don't even deal with these issues, unfortunately. And so we're talking about a small number of people who might even have this common view. And so we've got a lot of work to do to reform a number of different spheres. You talked about the family. You know, the family's broken down. How many parents are educating their children, to understand the history of our country and the importance of these great issues? unfortunately, not many. And they hand them over to the schools. And what do they get taught there? You know, socialism is great. you know, they don't know how to read the Constitution. Never read the Constitution. I mean, how many of our kids read the Constitution? In the class, they may study the Bill of Rights. As you pointed out before, Scalia said, the great thing about our country is not the Bill of Rights, it's the structure of our Constitution. And the Supreme Court has used the Bill of Rights to further accumulate control over really important things like religious freedom, freedom of the speech, press, and so many other things. so I think we've got to deal with those spheres. You pointed out families, the church. I mean, this is the church's role to call people back to these important considerations of parents educating their children and biblical values. And it's a spiritual spiral. So I just. I make that point simply to say that, you know, these are true problems. We can say I pinpointed the problem, but do we have the will to actually solve the problem? You know, there are a couple of representatives in Congress who have introduced bills to repeal the 17th Amendment. To me, that's so important. You know, there's a fair tax is, a bill that's been proposed in Congress that would impose a national retail sales tax and repeal the 16th amendment. You know, how do you put out a fire, Jenna? You remove the fuel source? Well, if the fire of the federal government is the amount of money it's getting, we got to stop that. And there are different steps we can take. But I think removing the power from the federal Government to stick its hand in our pockets anytime it wants to and then redistribute that wealth to anyone they want to is one of them. And, you know, once we deal with those two problems, I think we'll have the capacity to deal with other problems. Including the Supreme Court.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we. Because you're absolutely right that we can point out these problems. We can articulate that. And yet if the majority of Americans aren't even cognizant of not only our past history, but then also where we've, where we have been to reach the problems of today, then we won't have the consensus of we, the people and, and certainly not the consensus of our representatives in the U.S. congress and, and on the state level and all that in order to actually achieve this change. And that's what we're really contending with. I mean, the Apostle Paul has always talked about this in Scripture as a spiritual battle. And that's what it is. Because when you look at, you know, some of these, interviews of, you know, the man on the street, and. And asking some of the most simple questions of, you know, some of these young people in, you know, NewSong York and elsewhere, they don't know even the very, very basics of civil society, much less, you know, having contemplated the more philosophical issues that we're discussing today. And they're not getting that in school. They're, most of them are not going to church. You're not getting it through, through, you know, movies that used to have morals back in the day, even getting that from, you know, watching a lot of the cable news networks, because they have an incentive to only cover federal government national issues. They have an incentive to point toward the, higher concentrated power in the federal government. So do both parties, the DNC and the rnc. I mean, their, their power comes from all of the, their donors and the billions of dollars that is the, the politicking of today. And they have an incentive to keep the federal government powerful. And so you have all of these interests that are pointing toward chaos that we would call it, because it would be no longer the Christian worldview that prevails, and also a stronger federal government. And so when we talk about these things, even before we could get to a consensus on convening the states for the purpose of restraining the federal government and actually looking at correcting some of these, really big problems, it first comes down to society. And this is where, you know, we're talking about the civil government. Then we need to go into the church and family governments, because it has to start there, where we once again create a society that is actually educated on the blessings of liberty, that understands civic responsibility, responsibility that understands that we are a Christian nation, that we were founded on these Christian principles. Because if we're even arguing that, Mike, among Christians today, I mean, I was so, discouraged, frankly, and frustrated that so many Christians are actually saying, no, we shouldn't have school. children in Texas read excerpts from the Bible because, you know what, if it goes along these. Well, okay, deal with that another day. But. But recognize that this is a win. And absolutely, we should be educating children in the public school system to read passages from the Bible that our civil government philosophy was founded upon. I mean, of course. And you have Christians arguing against that because they've bought into this mentality of secular pluralism and a godless society. And, oh, we have to separate church and state. And they. They're not getting out of the worldview that is so contrary to the biblical commands that we even have Christians in our country that are cross purposes with truth.
Mike Donnelly: We're at a worldview crisis as America approaches 250
We're not just fighting against, you know, the secular Marxist communists. We're actually fighting against our own. To say, you know, here are. Here is the philosophy in the worldview that we need to strongly stand up with courage and advocate for. So. So, you know, we're at a worldview, crisis, even more than a constitutional crisis in this country as we're on the brink of America 250, because we don't even have a consensus among Christians that we're a Christian nation. And I think we need to address that even at the core of the foundation that needs to be the focus even before we reach some of these constitutional questions.
Mike Donnelly: I think that's true. You know, the Bible says, where there is no vision, the people perish. you know, the enemy of humanity, Satan, is the author of confusion. And you know what? Comfort is the enemy of clarity. we have such comfort in this country compared to any other country. We have the highest standard of living. even the poorest person in America has a cell phone virtually. you know, they've got TVs. You know, there is no excuse for going without in the United States of Americ, compared to the rest of the world. You know, air conditioning. You know, the Europeans are jealous of our air conditioning. If you're paying attention to the World cup, you know, the Europeans coming to America and discovering how great America is. I'm kind of amused by this. And, you know, Texas barbecue and air conditioning are the Things they love, which, you know, who couldn't love that, you know. But, anyway, yeah, you know, and so we have this amazing country that we live in, and people think about what it took to get here, and that if we don't maintain those principles of the biblical foundation of liberty and the restraint on government, that will centralize. Like the kings of Israel said. They said, give us the kings so we can be powerful. Build the Tower of Babel so we can be powerful. You know? Yeah, we can be powerful. And then, you, know, what did, the prophet say to the people of Israel? Be careful. The king will take your money and he'll take your children, fight wars and spend your money. And what's happening to our country? They're taking our money, and occasionally they're going out. And I mean, if you look, not just now, I mean, you know, Trump is, I think, being very restrained in how he's using the military for very important strategic purposes. But when you look over the last hundred years, we fought some pretty significant wars. And I don't want to argue over the pros and cons of that. I'm just saying that's what's happened.
Jenna Ellis: It.
Mike Donnelly: And so if we want to get back to and preserve the freedom that, you know, we. We want for our kids, we got to deal with those issues.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And we got to take a break here, Mike Donnelly. But, we are talking about America's 250, and we'll continue to talk about that. We'll be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis talks with Mike Donnelly about America's worldview crisis
Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest, Mike Donnelly, and we're Talking about America's 250, where we've been, where we're going, and that really, when we look at America's civil government, when we look at, at our U.S. constitution, when we look at the constitutional crisis that is happening, here in America right now, really, this is even before the constitutional crisis. this is and was a worldview crisis. And without God and without a knowledge of God, theology and a good theology in civil society and in the vast, ah, majority of the population, then we can't be the America that we were founded on. And so the question then, Mike Donnelly, is how does the church respond with courage and become, as it was in the founding era, the center and the fulcrum of society? Because the church has been very happy over, you know, the last century or so to, and especially, you know, the last maybe 30 and 40 years. To go by the wayside, to just be, you know, the little, church that's just in the corner of society, not the center and not the leader within social and worldview thought. And we have to get back to that. Otherwise we are literally handing over American society, to the left and ultimately to a false view of God and a worldview that is anti Christian, anti God, anti truth.
Both church and government have crowded out the family, Mike says
Mike Donnelly: Well, it's a great question, Jenna. And I would say, you know, you point to the three spheres, family, church, and government. Right. And both church and government have crowded out the family. And I really think the most important issue here is the family. and parents need to take charge. They need to bring up their children in the admonition and nurture of the Lord. They need to bring their children to a saving knowledge of faith in Christ. And that's the most important thing. If this, if our country's problems are going to be solved, it's only because we have children in the next generation who understand and are submitted to God's purpose for their life. And if that's God's purpose for our country, that's what will happen. These, problems are not going to get solved absent divine intervention. They're too big for any one person or any group of people, even you and me. And, as much as we can try to point these things out. But I feel like, you know, in the halls of government, we've got to find ways to enable the family. And that means dealing with education, giving parents choices, taking away the coercive monopoly of education that is, you know, teaching our children such garbage. And the church needs to support the family, and the church needs to call people to repent and do its job. And it's not doing that. So many churches are not doing that. you know, pointing people to biblical truth, to the power of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ and the gospel. I mean, that ultimately is the solution to our problems. you know, whether our country continues to be prosperous or not in the most powerful country in the world pales in comparison with the role we have in, preaching the gospel to a world that is in need of the gospel. That's what I would say.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. Amen. And, you know, for people who are listening to this and thinking, well, where, where do we even start? Well, we start at home, and you start first with yourself and with your family, and then you expand, to your church. Don't just be a passive member of your church or go to one of these churches that basically, is just a social Club, you know, where you go and you, you learn about, you know, how to live your best life and then you go for the rest of the week and carry on really no different than the rest of the world. you have to, as my church, in Florida says, we have to be the church. And that's the command every time that we leave the Sunday morning services. Okay, go and be the church. What does that mean? It means carrying the truth of the gospel of Christ, into our world and actually having these conversations with our friends and with our neighbors. And if everyone who actually called themselves a Christian in American society would take that, responsibility seriously, we could make such a difference. And even over this next year, we could begin to have these conversations in a much greater context even than what we do here on American Family Radio Network. We could, take these conversations to a greater and greater depth and, a larger sphere. And that's what we need to do is, is to start having these conversations about truth and about God and and, and persuade and to have an answer for the hope that lies within us. It always goes back to the principles and the commands of scripture for Christians. And we need to take that seriously. Not just look at the blessings of liberty in the end, the blessings from the Lord, what it does for our life and our comfort and prosperity, but rather what that does that impels us to then go and help create a more perfect union, help advance our civil society so that we can, pass along to our children and our children's children that great inheritance and that we won't see this in our lifetimes, winnow away and that we won't see just even over the next few years, a very different America than we were founded on. So last minute, closing thoughts.
Mike Donnelly: Mike, you know, I just want to say Happy birthday, America. 250 years, the greatest country in the history of the world. With great power comes great responsibility. We the people need to pick up that responsibility and start acting like we are a great people again and not being concerned, mostly with our comfort. that's not easy to do. I'm not sure how many people are going to pick up the call and go forth with it, but, you know, we have opportunity in front of us and submitting ourselves to God plan. That's the most important thing.
Jenna Ellis: Amen and amen. So start today by reading your Bible, knowing the truth of God, knowing theology. Have good, commentaries that you read on the Bible as well to supplement, be a member of your church, be a member of your family take that seriously so that you can be a good member of society. So happy birthday America. it is truly a great country. I love this country and I want to do see it persist and to come back to our original founding ah understanding that we are a country that was ordained and established by the Lord and that our rights come from God our Creator. As always reach me and my team Jenna at AFR.
Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator
Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
This weekend marks America's 250th anniversary celebrating the blessings of liberty
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Thursday, July 2, and we are all preparing for celebrating this weekend, America's 250th anniversary, the semi quincentennial, if you want to get technical. And there's a lot to discuss around that because while we are all celebrating and as we should, this is a wonderful opportunity to, review the blessings of liberty. Where we've been, where we are going and you know, of course, ah, what work we still have to do to create a more perfect union. this is an opportunity to kind of take stock of America and to say, okay, what are some of the things that, we are doing right and we're doing correct and in line with the mandate that our founders originally provided in our Declaration of Independence, our founding documents, and of course our Constitution. And then what things, have we not gotten right that perhaps we need to focus on in, the immediate sense so that we can have another 250 years of the blessings of liberty? Because God, ultimately for his own sovereign purposes, allowed America to be founded. this, I believe, is the greatest nation, in the history of the world we have. We are the only nation that is founded, spirit, specifically on the recognition that our rights come from God our Creator, not our government. And the sole purpose of government is to preserve and protect those rights. And because of that, we have experienced, the greatest opportunity for liberty, ordered liberty, which is important, not just this, free for all in liberty, defined as licentiousness or, you know, every man according to his own whim. But ordered liberty, the understanding of that triangle of freedom that liberty requires, faith, and faith, ultimately requires virtue, and then virtue requires freedom. And understanding how all of that works together, is important to pass on to the next generations. And where we are right now, I think there are a lot of people who do understand that. But, then there's a large segment of the, the American population that really doesn't understand that and would see freedom and liberty in a different light. And we're at a moment of perhaps a clash between the socialist Democrat left that's trying to reinvent America into a completely different society, and, they want to undermine the founding documents they want to reinterpret. It suggests that the Constitution is a fluid document. And then you have those of us who recognize that America was founded on Christian values and because of that confines us in our law and society to a certain reality, which is that the laws of nature and of nature's God are paramount and still guide us. And because of that, we, can advocate only within certain contours and parameters of the law. And the left is holding wholly outside of that.
Mike Donnelly: America celebrates 250th birthday on Saturday
So let's welcome in Mike Donnelly, who is an attorney and professor and fellow, ranter and also philosopher and someone that, you know, I love talking to all of these things, ah, about. And Mike, you know, give me kind of your 30,000 foot perspective of where we stand right now as we are set to celebrate America's 250 on Saturday.
Mike Donnelly: Jenna, good morning. And to those listening, happy birthday, America, and I hope you're having a wonderful day. It's always great to be with you and with Jenna to talk about these important issues that our country faces, that our children face, that our grandchildren face. a great country has great opportunity and great responsibility. great countries have great problems too. And, I don't want to be a downer, but we've got a lot of things that need to be discussed and, fixed in our country if we're going to hand on, this country to our kids and they're going to have the same opportunities that we had, and that those before us had our posterity. And so as I reflect back, I think it's important to reflect back to the beginning. What was the vision that the founders had? What was it that compelled them to take that momentous step on, July 4, 1776, to pledge their honors, their lives, their sacred fortune to this great cause of liberty, separating from the greatest empire that the world had known at that point, and to create a new country. And, it's in the Declaration of Independence. And I would just, I would encourage anyone listening, you know, as you are out celebrating on July 4th, and isn't it great that it's on a Saturday this year? Love it. and as you're with family and friends, pull out that declaration and anybody who'll listen, go around and read it, maybe share it with your kids, let them read a little bit of it, or you read it to them. that's a tradition. I'VE had for years. I try to get whoever will listen, you know, as the kids get older, you can't. You can't make them listen. So I invite people to come and I'll read the Declaration. And, you know, it's just, I think it's important to remember that pause and, you know, it's in there.
The Constitution was founded on the recognition that our rights come from God
What was it? What was it the founding that has carried us through? I think, you know, one, it was a clear understanding of where our rights come from. You know, the Founders recognized that our rights come from God, you know, that, we have certain unalienable rights. Right. And where do they come from? They come from nature's God. And so when the Founders made that decision. And it wasn't just the founders, you know, it was the people of this country, 95% of whom were born again Christians, in my view of history. And they realized that it was going to take a firm reliance on God to see this through. And so, you know, let's think about what their vision was. And it was a vision of self governance that we the people, which, you know, they later put that into the Constitution. And we the people do hereby ordain and establish this Constitution in the United States. Right. That came after the Articles of Confederation. You know, it took us 20 years, 15 years or so to fight the war and then create the Constitution that we now enjoy. Maybe we can talk about that a little bit. But, I think that, you know, that's just. Those are just a few thoughts that I have and I'll just stop rambling for a while and you can redirect where you want to go. Jenna.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, no, it's a great, rambling because, you know, it's so true that we need to read the founding documents and, and in fact, on tomorrow's show, I'm going to go, further in depth in, in the Declaration and the Constitution and talk about, you know, what, what it is that we actually celebrate on July 4th, beyond, you know, the hot dogs and fireworks and family gatherings, which are great, that's part of the blessings of liberty. But what the founders recognized and understood at, the inception of America is I think, bound up in the preamble when it says that we the people of, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, our children, our descendants, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. And that came after the Declaration which says that we hold truth to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and that we understand that God is the highest authority. The declaration recognizes God as the supreme judge of the universe and recognizes that the powers and authorities of man are lesser than gods and that they are limited and that even a king cannot simply do whatever he wants and infringe upon the most basic rights that are given by God himself. And so you know, the question in the 250th anniversary that most people ask, even some Christians are you know, where is God in the Constitution? And you know, we don't see that term anywhere. And you know I've even over the last several days on social media, I've gotten you know, kind of that pushback in the context of of Texas saying that you know, we're requiring certain Bible passages to be read in public school. And it's like how dare you, as a Christian nation that was founded on the recognition our rights coming from God, actually read the text that is at the foundation of all of that. You know, how dare us as a Christian nation. And the answer of course Mike, is that God is everywhere in our founding documents and the Constitution is just the nuts and bolts of how we distribute and limit powers on the federal level. But originally the the, the Declaration, of course the Federalist Papers, I mean all of the writings of the founders recognized that, that God is at the foundation and specifically recognizes him. And the blessings of liberty, the blessings that can only come from God. I mean that's right there in the preamble of the U.S. constitution. And then it's just the, the actual lot, self, the distribution. And in the, the original 13 colony states constitutions, God is explicit. I mean there, there is even a recognition of Christianity as the religion of the state. I mean all of these things go back to God being at and necessary for a union that is a constitutional republic, for a more perfect union. But also God is at the, it must be at the center and at the foundation of self government. Because we can't have a self governing society without recognizing that we are all under God's authority. Otherwise what, what happens is what I think we're seeing today with this kind of coexist nonsense that everyone's different view of reality and view of self government and what we should be able to permit and prohibit in society is different and that just doesn't work. And so we have to get back in it. So I think the question to you is, you know, how do you answer that? Pushback? When people say, well, God isn't anywhere, you know, in the text of the Constitution? Well, he's everywhere.
Mike Donnelly: Well, of course, I mean, look, the founders had incredible biblical literacy, you know, and they understood the lessons of history and the context of Rome, of Greece. They were very well read. They were highly educated. you know, we didn't have the current public school system, which is dumbing America down and captured by the left, and you know, teaching our children, you know, that socialism is better than capitalism, and that can only happen when people hand their children over to a centralized government. But the founders were very well read, very well educated in that respect, from the Bible, and they understood the problem and the concerns of centralization of power. I mean, they were living it, which is why they were going to leave the British Empire. And they knew that just like when Israel said, hey, we want a king like all the other people around us, the founders realized that centralization of power is a threat to any people and every people. And that was the thing that was happening, under King George. And they said, we can't do this anymore. The king is, you know, he's the central authority, and he's doing things to us that are wrong. They conflict with our values. It isn't working for us. And so they said, we've got to. We've got to make the break. And Jon Adams said this. You know, anybody listening to your show more than three times has heard this. You know, our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other. And that's. That is from a letter. The hero to the 3rd Massachusetts militia. It's a great letter. It's a short letter. I highly encourage people to read it because there's context in that letter that I think makes that statement, you know, more real, explains the context. He said, you know, we have great freedom, but in our sin nature, we want more than God. You know, God allows for us to have to live the flourishing life when we live according to God's principles, right? And we exercise discipline over the sin nature. You know, we can flourish better. And you look around your family, you look around our country, and you see what happens when people don't control the sinful nature. Drugs, all the other, you know, illicit things that are happening in our country, people want to legalize, the things that, you know, the Bible calls, you know, great sin. And so, you know, centralization is a danger. And that when you look at our history. I think that is the. That is the theme that I believe we have to understand if we're going to redirect the path of this country, and enjoy the blessings of liberty and pass that on to our children. Now, Ronald Reagan said, he's a great quote. People have probably heard this too. And you show up, you listen more than twice. You know, freedom isn't free. Right? It isn't passed to us in the bloodstream from our parents. Freedom is something that has to be fought for, each generation to pass on to the one that comes next to our posterity. And the threat to true freedom, freedom, biblical freedom, freedom in Christ, freedom from sin. Right. Is an understanding of that principle that if we do not control ourselves, we do not discipline ourselves personally, then our lives can go in a very bad direction. Well, that's true for our country as well. And that's what has happened. We have not controlled ourselves. We have allowed ourselves constitutionally. we've made changes to the constitution, like the 16th and the 17th amendment, for example. Just an example. The, federal government, through the courts, has been allowed to expand to a point that the founders would, you know, be aghast at what they see in terms of the size and scope of the federal government, going from, you know, maybe 7% of GDP 100 years ago to 23, 24% of GDP now.
The federal government was designed to address things that are national in nature
you know, the federal government was designed to really address things that are national in nature, truly national in nature. And what does it do now? Everything. It provides welfare, it takes money from businesses, it redirects flows of money all over the place to things that it should never be doing according to the Constitution. But it has a lot. The federal government has allowed that to happen through its three, parts of government. Right, the three parts of government. And they've all allowed themselves to expand to the point we have. So I think that's one of the biggest threats that our country faces and that we've got to grapple with.
Jenna Ellis: So. Well said. And we've got to take a break here, but I'm speaking with, Mike Donnelly, who's an attorney and, and who is a philosopher, of course, and, and a. An expert in the, the arena of constitutional law, American philosophy. And, we're Talking about America's 250th anniversary, where we've come and where we're going. And so we will be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
Jenna Ell: American government was originally designed to be limited
Welcome back to Jenna Ell in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest, Mike Donnelly. And we're talking about America's 250th anniversary. And before the break, Mike, you know, we've kind of. We got into, some of just I mean, scratching the surface of where we have gotten off of the foundation and the recognition that all authority comes from God, that we need to a society in the three spheres that God has ordained. The church government, the family government and the civil government, must be under his authority in order to be legitimate and in order for human beings to flourish and not have those government systems, be abusive or infringe upon our rights or to not function properly. And so, for today, of course, we're talking about the civil government and we're talking about how we, were originally designed to be a nation that would govern. Christians would under. Would govern up a people who understood that our rights come from God and would limit the power of government to provide the most freedom, which, of course, as Os Guinness defines liberty and freedom, it's not the right just to do what we want, but the, right to do what we ought. And so not having government restraining us from raising our children, in the fear and admonition of the Lord, not restraining us from going to church, not restraining us from living our lives according to the will of God, not restraining us from teaching others in society, bringing them into a saving knowledge of God, and in fact encouraging that. And so when we actually look at where our civil government, was and the distribution and separation of powers, which is, you know, as Justice Scalia once famously said, the best thing about American government isn't just our First Amendment, or even our Second Amendment. Those are great things as well. But the fact that we separate and limit the authority of government. And we did that in the very beginning. But as time went on, we have increasingly given more and more and more power to the federal government. And the states have yielded, their powers to the federal government and individuals even. I mean, there are, There are powers of government that are actually reserved through the Constitution to we the people. And we have this mentality now in 2026 that we didn't in 1776, that the federal government can do basically whatever it wants. Congress can legislate anything it wants. The, the executive, maybe depending on, you know, whether you like, the president or not, you know, has so much authority, even some authority that should be in the legislative branch only or should be, among the states, and then especially the federal judiciary. The Supreme Court can literally rule on any topic that it wants and can hamstring the other two branches and can tell the rest of America what we can and can't do as basically a mini star chamber. and this is not how it was originally designed. And so when we're talking specifically about the federal government, I mean, this is something that should be so much more limited and was limited originally. Just, you know, I mean, and we only have the hour this morning, but, you know, how did we get there philosophically, in America? I mean, what has happened over the last 250 years that we as a people basically have turned the federal government into this monster that it was never intended and not created to, to be.
Mike Donnelly: Oh, wow, Jana, such a great question. And, you know, so I watched the Netherlands game, for the World Cup. It was like, it went on till midnight and some great soccer going on for those who love soccer. And of course, the Netherlands, are the Dutch people. So I'm bringing it around to the dyke analogy, because that is exactly what has happened. You know, everybody knows the story of the little boy in the dike. You know, there's a. There's a one hole and he puts his finger in, and then there's 10 holes, and then he can't hold back the water anymore. Well, how does water cut through a dike? One hole, two holes, three holes. And if you don't plug those holes, it's going to erode, and then suddenly you're going to have a flood. And that's what's happened with our Constitution, with our constitutional republic. It's been breaches over the decades. And, you know, Jenna, I just want to point people to the anti Federalist papers, Brutus number 15, because Brutus called it. he wrote about the judiciary. And Hamilton said, oh, no. In the Federalist Papers, Hamilton said, oh, the judiciary will be the weakest of all. When you look at the Constitution, Article 3 has the fewest number of words which should mean the least amount of power. In Article 1, the legislative branch has all these enumerated powers. It's massive power, although enumerated. Maybe we can come back to that. But Brutus said, oh. Brutus said to Hamilton, he's like, dude, you don't get it. Judges will be more powerful than any other branch or person because they will have lifetime appointments, and a, judiciary by case, by case will expand and it will become more powerful than any other power under heaven. And man, was he right? And so it Wasn't just the judiciary, though, although I would say that the judiciary enabled it. Because what do people want, Jenna? People want power, right? That was the, Israelites. They wanted a king because they wanted to be powerful. People got together, they built the Tower of Babel. Why? They wanted to make a name for themselves. They wanted to have power, they wanted to control. They want to be strong. And the natural sinful tendency of us humans is to centralize power and to use power and to accumulate more of it. And that has to be fought against. And the founders, as you pointed out, what they did was separate power, but power. You know, people in power, they want to come back together, you know, and they have. And it's been mutual. The Congress has done certain things, the executive has done certain things. And the judicial branch at the federal level, and you can see this to a degree also in the states, you see this happening in different levels. And it's a tendency to centralize power. And so, you know, the federal government has done that. It has done it to the. At the expense of the state. And remember, it's not just the separation of powers and the Constitution within and among the federal government's branches. It was also this idea of dual sovereignty. The founders split up the power of the sovereign, which is we the people, because we do have a lot of power. And so we're going to put some of it, expressly delegate some of it to the federal government, and we're going to split that up even more and distribute it around and then the rest of it. you were referring to the 10th Amendment. We're going to reserve to the people and to the states. And the states were the ones that really came together to form the United States. And so they retained the largest share of power. But when you look at where we are today, where is the largest share of power? Well, you can measure in lots of different ways, but I choose to measure it mostly in the amount of money that comes out of our pocket. Where does it go, the bulk? A lot of it goes to the federal government, probably most of it through a variety of different taxes, and then our property taxes and state income taxes, the smallest share. So just on that measure alone, you see where the power is. It has become re centralized. And that entity, the federal government, protects its power. And yes, they fight amongst themselves. You'll see the Supreme Court fight against the executive branch, although right now we've got, you know, a Supreme Court that's somewhat more supportive of executive authority under the Constitution. And we can talk about some of those things. But by and large the federal government circles the wagons and they said and says, as opposed to anybody else, we're going to expand and protect our power. And I think that's, that's the problem we have. And if we want to fix that, we're going to have to deal with some structural issues, in our country, including the Constitution.
I wonder if we have what it takes to do it
And I, I just wonder if we have what it takes to do it. I don't know. But we've got to talk about it. And hopefully the next generation can catch a vision for refounding and reforming our country based on what the founders offer. Because if it doesn't, we're just going to continue to go down this path. And it's not a, it's a dark path. It's not a, it's not a good path.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
Mike Donnelly: We need to acknowledge problems in the original Constitution
And I love Mike Donnelly that you brought up, the anti Federalist papers because, when we're talking about the Constitution in the original, context and the original text, that it was ratified, a lot of us and I think it's correct of us to say, you know, this was the greatest legal document, in the history of governing. I mean, we can look to other legal documents like the Magna Carta that have had an amazing and profound effect on Western civilization. We obviously can look when we're talking about, you know, documents created by man, that pointed to and point still, to the eternal word of God. And yet we do need to recognize and acknowledge that because this isn't biblical text, it's not inspired and inerrant and sufficient and all of the things that the Bible is, there are and even were at the inception errors. And of course the left loves to point that out when they talk about, you know, the three fifths compromise and how, you know, slavery was still legal. So how can we possibly have been a good nation? And you know, those, those questions are, you know, easily resolved and not for today. But the point being, Brutus's essay raised arguments that still remain deeply influential in American legal and political philosophy. Fee because he was talking about the lack of accountability for the judicial branch, irreversible decisions, that the Supreme Court decisions are final unless they reverse themselves, there is no accountability. And so that superiority to the legislature was and still is a problem in the original text of the Constitution. And so while we as originalists, as conservatives, love the Constitution and talk so often about how great our system of government is, we still do need to acknowledge even the problems that were implicit in the Founding era and of the original Constitution and how those problems have only metastasized into greater ones today because they haven't been resolved in the way that the founders originally intended, which was through the amendments process. The amendments process in article 5 and this has been used 27 times in our nation's history to amend the Constitution. Instead of creating a more perfect union, instead of using that to provide more accountability to the judiciary, to ensure that the federal government, didn't become this huge behemoth that it is in order to ensure that we're protecting the liberties of self government to the greatest degree. Instead of using the amendment's process how it was intended, we've used the amendments process to for the exact opposite reason. You mentioned, you know, the 16th and 17th amendments, those were two of the greatest disasters in American legal history. we still haven't corrected the issue of the lack of accountability for the U.S. supreme Court. And so even this week we've been discussing, you know, these huge decisions that have a profound impact on America. And it shouldn't be that the U.S. supreme Court, you know, we wait to get these decisions on high like it's Moses descending, you know, from Mount Sinai with the tablets. I mean this isn't how the Supreme Court should operate. And so how can we start to philosophically, I think among originalists, have this idea that Brutus was willing to have. And I would encourage everyone read the Federalist and the anti Federalist papers. This gives you context and kind of a legislative history of the Constitution and what the arguments were for and against the ratification of the Constitution in its original form and be willing to say, okay, here are some problems that have gotten even stronger and maybe, just maybe it's time to actually use the amendments process the way that it was designed to create a more perfect union to correct those problems, to perhaps, you know, redistribute some of those powers. Like with the Supreme Court for example, we could take away the power of the US President to nominate, we could take away the lifetime appointments, that, that power if we wanted to. Right? There are so many ways that we could write this ship of America moving forward and sailing into the next 250 years if we really wanted to. But then to your point, Mike, do we have the will as an American society to take a really hard look at our Constitution, at our current society and say, okay, these are the problems that we need to correct and let's states, let's go and let's actually make a difference
Mike Donnelly: so, such a great point, Jenna. And I'm, of course, very favorable to, convening a convention of states to have that conversation. But, you know, you and I share so many views, and we gotta realize that there are a lot of people who do not share our views. I don't know that it's a majority, but I also think that a majority of people have not really thought about this. The schools don't teach it. Where do people have these kinds of conversations if not listening on the radio to your show? Most talk shows don't even deal with these issues, unfortunately. And so we're talking about a small number of people who might even have this common view. And so we've got a lot of work to do to reform a number of different spheres. You talked about the family. You know, the family's broken down. How many parents are educating their children, to understand the history of our country and the importance of these great issues? unfortunately, not many. And they hand them over to the schools. And what do they get taught there? You know, socialism is great. you know, they don't know how to read the Constitution. Never read the Constitution. I mean, how many of our kids read the Constitution? In the class, they may study the Bill of Rights. As you pointed out before, Scalia said, the great thing about our country is not the Bill of Rights, it's the structure of our Constitution. And the Supreme Court has used the Bill of Rights to further accumulate control over really important things like religious freedom, freedom of the speech, press, and so many other things. so I think we've got to deal with those spheres. You pointed out families, the church. I mean, this is the church's role to call people back to these important considerations of parents educating their children and biblical values. And it's a spiritual spiral. So I just. I make that point simply to say that, you know, these are true problems. We can say I pinpointed the problem, but do we have the will to actually solve the problem? You know, there are a couple of representatives in Congress who have introduced bills to repeal the 17th Amendment. To me, that's so important. You know, there's a fair tax is, a bill that's been proposed in Congress that would impose a national retail sales tax and repeal the 16th amendment. You know, how do you put out a fire, Jenna? You remove the fuel source? Well, if the fire of the federal government is the amount of money it's getting, we got to stop that. And there are different steps we can take. But I think removing the power from the federal Government to stick its hand in our pockets anytime it wants to and then redistribute that wealth to anyone they want to is one of them. And, you know, once we deal with those two problems, I think we'll have the capacity to deal with other problems. Including the Supreme Court.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we. Because you're absolutely right that we can point out these problems. We can articulate that. And yet if the majority of Americans aren't even cognizant of not only our past history, but then also where we've, where we have been to reach the problems of today, then we won't have the consensus of we, the people and, and certainly not the consensus of our representatives in the U.S. congress and, and on the state level and all that in order to actually achieve this change. And that's what we're really contending with. I mean, the Apostle Paul has always talked about this in Scripture as a spiritual battle. And that's what it is. Because when you look at, you know, some of these, interviews of, you know, the man on the street, and. And asking some of the most simple questions of, you know, some of these young people in, you know, NewSong York and elsewhere, they don't know even the very, very basics of civil society, much less, you know, having contemplated the more philosophical issues that we're discussing today. And they're not getting that in school. They're, most of them are not going to church. You're not getting it through, through, you know, movies that used to have morals back in the day, even getting that from, you know, watching a lot of the cable news networks, because they have an incentive to only cover federal government national issues. They have an incentive to point toward the, higher concentrated power in the federal government. So do both parties, the DNC and the rnc. I mean, their, their power comes from all of the, their donors and the billions of dollars that is the, the politicking of today. And they have an incentive to keep the federal government powerful. And so you have all of these interests that are pointing toward chaos that we would call it, because it would be no longer the Christian worldview that prevails, and also a stronger federal government. And so when we talk about these things, even before we could get to a consensus on convening the states for the purpose of restraining the federal government and actually looking at correcting some of these, really big problems, it first comes down to society. And this is where, you know, we're talking about the civil government. Then we need to go into the church and family governments, because it has to start there, where we once again create a society that is actually educated on the blessings of liberty, that understands civic responsibility, responsibility that understands that we are a Christian nation, that we were founded on these Christian principles. Because if we're even arguing that, Mike, among Christians today, I mean, I was so, discouraged, frankly, and frustrated that so many Christians are actually saying, no, we shouldn't have school. children in Texas read excerpts from the Bible because, you know what, if it goes along these. Well, okay, deal with that another day. But. But recognize that this is a win. And absolutely, we should be educating children in the public school system to read passages from the Bible that our civil government philosophy was founded upon. I mean, of course. And you have Christians arguing against that because they've bought into this mentality of secular pluralism and a godless society. And, oh, we have to separate church and state. And they. They're not getting out of the worldview that is so contrary to the biblical commands that we even have Christians in our country that are cross purposes with truth.
Mike Donnelly: We're at a worldview crisis as America approaches 250
We're not just fighting against, you know, the secular Marxist communists. We're actually fighting against our own. To say, you know, here are. Here is the philosophy in the worldview that we need to strongly stand up with courage and advocate for. So. So, you know, we're at a worldview, crisis, even more than a constitutional crisis in this country as we're on the brink of America 250, because we don't even have a consensus among Christians that we're a Christian nation. And I think we need to address that even at the core of the foundation that needs to be the focus even before we reach some of these constitutional questions.
Mike Donnelly: I think that's true. You know, the Bible says, where there is no vision, the people perish. you know, the enemy of humanity, Satan, is the author of confusion. And you know what? Comfort is the enemy of clarity. we have such comfort in this country compared to any other country. We have the highest standard of living. even the poorest person in America has a cell phone virtually. you know, they've got TVs. You know, there is no excuse for going without in the United States of Americ, compared to the rest of the world. You know, air conditioning. You know, the Europeans are jealous of our air conditioning. If you're paying attention to the World cup, you know, the Europeans coming to America and discovering how great America is. I'm kind of amused by this. And, you know, Texas barbecue and air conditioning are the Things they love, which, you know, who couldn't love that, you know. But, anyway, yeah, you know, and so we have this amazing country that we live in, and people think about what it took to get here, and that if we don't maintain those principles of the biblical foundation of liberty and the restraint on government, that will centralize. Like the kings of Israel said. They said, give us the kings so we can be powerful. Build the Tower of Babel so we can be powerful. You know? Yeah, we can be powerful. And then, you, know, what did, the prophet say to the people of Israel? Be careful. The king will take your money and he'll take your children, fight wars and spend your money. And what's happening to our country? They're taking our money, and occasionally they're going out. And I mean, if you look, not just now, I mean, you know, Trump is, I think, being very restrained in how he's using the military for very important strategic purposes. But when you look over the last hundred years, we fought some pretty significant wars. And I don't want to argue over the pros and cons of that. I'm just saying that's what's happened.
Jenna Ellis: It.
Mike Donnelly: And so if we want to get back to and preserve the freedom that, you know, we. We want for our kids, we got to deal with those issues.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And we got to take a break here, Mike Donnelly. But, we are talking about America's 250, and we'll continue to talk about that. We'll be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis talks with Mike Donnelly about America's worldview crisis
Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest, Mike Donnelly, and we're Talking about America's 250, where we've been, where we're going, and that really, when we look at America's civil government, when we look at, at our U.S. constitution, when we look at the constitutional crisis that is happening, here in America right now, really, this is even before the constitutional crisis. this is and was a worldview crisis. And without God and without a knowledge of God, theology and a good theology in civil society and in the vast, ah, majority of the population, then we can't be the America that we were founded on. And so the question then, Mike Donnelly, is how does the church respond with courage and become, as it was in the founding era, the center and the fulcrum of society? Because the church has been very happy over, you know, the last century or so to, and especially, you know, the last maybe 30 and 40 years. To go by the wayside, to just be, you know, the little, church that's just in the corner of society, not the center and not the leader within social and worldview thought. And we have to get back to that. Otherwise we are literally handing over American society, to the left and ultimately to a false view of God and a worldview that is anti Christian, anti God, anti truth.
Both church and government have crowded out the family, Mike says
Mike Donnelly: Well, it's a great question, Jenna. And I would say, you know, you point to the three spheres, family, church, and government. Right. And both church and government have crowded out the family. And I really think the most important issue here is the family. and parents need to take charge. They need to bring up their children in the admonition and nurture of the Lord. They need to bring their children to a saving knowledge of faith in Christ. And that's the most important thing. If this, if our country's problems are going to be solved, it's only because we have children in the next generation who understand and are submitted to God's purpose for their life. And if that's God's purpose for our country, that's what will happen. These, problems are not going to get solved absent divine intervention. They're too big for any one person or any group of people, even you and me. And, as much as we can try to point these things out. But I feel like, you know, in the halls of government, we've got to find ways to enable the family. And that means dealing with education, giving parents choices, taking away the coercive monopoly of education that is, you know, teaching our children such garbage. And the church needs to support the family, and the church needs to call people to repent and do its job. And it's not doing that. So many churches are not doing that. you know, pointing people to biblical truth, to the power of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ and the gospel. I mean, that ultimately is the solution to our problems. you know, whether our country continues to be prosperous or not in the most powerful country in the world pales in comparison with the role we have in, preaching the gospel to a world that is in need of the gospel. That's what I would say.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. Amen. And, you know, for people who are listening to this and thinking, well, where, where do we even start? Well, we start at home, and you start first with yourself and with your family, and then you expand, to your church. Don't just be a passive member of your church or go to one of these churches that basically, is just a social Club, you know, where you go and you, you learn about, you know, how to live your best life and then you go for the rest of the week and carry on really no different than the rest of the world. you have to, as my church, in Florida says, we have to be the church. And that's the command every time that we leave the Sunday morning services. Okay, go and be the church. What does that mean? It means carrying the truth of the gospel of Christ, into our world and actually having these conversations with our friends and with our neighbors. And if everyone who actually called themselves a Christian in American society would take that, responsibility seriously, we could make such a difference. And even over this next year, we could begin to have these conversations in a much greater context even than what we do here on American Family Radio Network. We could, take these conversations to a greater and greater depth and, a larger sphere. And that's what we need to do is, is to start having these conversations about truth and about God and and, and persuade and to have an answer for the hope that lies within us. It always goes back to the principles and the commands of scripture for Christians. And we need to take that seriously. Not just look at the blessings of liberty in the end, the blessings from the Lord, what it does for our life and our comfort and prosperity, but rather what that does that impels us to then go and help create a more perfect union, help advance our civil society so that we can, pass along to our children and our children's children that great inheritance and that we won't see this in our lifetimes, winnow away and that we won't see just even over the next few years, a very different America than we were founded on. So last minute, closing thoughts.
Mike Donnelly: Mike, you know, I just want to say Happy birthday, America. 250 years, the greatest country in the history of the world. With great power comes great responsibility. We the people need to pick up that responsibility and start acting like we are a great people again and not being concerned, mostly with our comfort. that's not easy to do. I'm not sure how many people are going to pick up the call and go forth with it, but, you know, we have opportunity in front of us and submitting ourselves to God plan. That's the most important thing.
Jenna Ellis: Amen and amen. So start today by reading your Bible, knowing the truth of God, knowing theology. Have good, commentaries that you read on the Bible as well to supplement, be a member of your church, be a member of your family take that seriously so that you can be a good member of society. So happy birthday America. it is truly a great country. I love this country and I want to do see it persist and to come back to our original founding ah understanding that we are a country that was ordained and established by the Lord and that our rights come from God our Creator. As always reach me and my team Jenna at AFR.
Jenna Ellis engages in a thought-provoking discussion with attorney and professor Mike Donnelly as they reflect on America's 250th anniversary. They explore the foundational principles of the U.S. Constitution, emphasizing the importance of recognizing that our rights come from God, not the government. As they celebrate the blessings of liberty, they also address the challenges facing America today, including the clash between traditional values and modern ideologies.
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