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Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.
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Dr. Anthony Fauci invoked Fifth Amendment during Senate hearing yesterday
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Thursday, July 30, and yesterday was supposed to be the big accountability day for Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was, hauled into a the Senate hearing, where Rand Paul, Senator Rand Paul, said beforehand, which may not have been the wisest thing, that if Foushee's responses led him to commit perjury, that would not be covered by his Biden auto pin pardon. And so Foushee ended up pleading the fifth. In his opening statement at the Senate hearing, he accused Senator Rand Paul of a slander campaign against him and invoked the fifth Amendment, during that opening statement, that coming from Fox News. And he said in his, opening statement, quote, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason is to get me to say something, anything that could vindicate his Rand Paul's repeated public pledges that I end up in his words, quote, behind bars, unquote. Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the great respect I have for the legislative branch of the government and my decades long career in government, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the fifth amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions. Well, unfortunately that was probably the wise advice from his attorneys. But let's welcome in Gerard Felitti, who is senior counsel at the Lawfare Project. And Gerard, this is probably predictable. why would Fauci not invoke the fifth Amendment? but it of course then continues to lead to the public outcry demanding for accountability. What are your thoughts?
Gerard Filitti: Well, it certainly does lead to the continued outcry watching the testimony and seeing the questions and how he refused to answer each and every single one, invoking the Fifth Amendment is sure to infuriate most Americans. But I think this is only the beginning of the process. I think that his invocation of the Fifth Amendment actually opens the door to legal jeopardy for him. and what will likely follow is a congressional vote on contempt, followed by this going to federal court to assess whether or not he validly invokes Fifth Amendment privilege. So I think this is just the beginning. This is act one. We have yet to see act two.
Jenna Ellis: Oh, interesting. So how could that process play out? That, while he has a constitutionally protected right, as Senator Lankford and others acknowledged contemporaneously in the hearing, how could that lead potentially to contempt? Well, he has. The fact that.
Gerard Filitti: That she received a pardon from President Biden means that he has no credible fear of prosecution for federal crimes for anything up until, he received that pardon. So January 20th of 2025, that includes previous congressional testimony. So in order to assert the Fifth Amendment privilege, you have to have that threat of federal prosecution hanging over you. so Dr. Fauci basically is asserting amendment because he is worried that what he testified to at this hearing would be a perjury trap, that he would expose himself to prosecution by something not covered. And, that's not sufficient grounds to, he would need to explain to a judge which. And a judge would look at each and every single question to determine whether answering that question would pose a real and appreciable danger of criminal prosecution.
Jenna Ellis: Interesting. And, you know, and hopefully this is, a way that, the Senate will proceed. And, and you're absolutely right in terms of invocation of, the Fifth Amendment. And so, you know, it seems that his objection is basically entrapment. But if, the. The subject matter is covered by the pardon, then what would realistically, his, potential perjury as. As Rand Paul was even openly discussing saying, you know, if he commits perjury at this hearing, then that wouldn't be covered by the pardon. So would that be enough of an appreciable risk that he could properly invoke?
Gerard Filitti: Almost definitely not, because all he has to do to not face that jeopardy is to testify truthfully, as painful as that truth may be. So, hypothetically speaking, if you were to testify. Yes, I knew all along that Covid was a joke. And, we created it and we released it, and, all the countermeasures we suggested were nothing, then America would be shocked, but he would face no Jeopardy for his testimony, because he'd be testifying, hypothetically speaking, truthfully. So the perjury trap is a lot to hang, an assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege on, because the court will tell him that all you have to do is answer truthfully, and you don't have to worry about prosecution unless you can name or you can identify, that legitimate concern. Now, he can also be prosecuted under state law for state crimes, but it's very difficult to come up with any crime in any state that, he would credibly be charged with at this point. And.
Jenna Ellis: And, of course, if he testifies truthfully and makes any kind of admissions, like, you know, in your hypothetical, that, you know, that we. We know that the evidence points to at this point, that would completely destroy his reputation. And, you know, we know from the. The diary pages that have been released by Rand Paul, you know, his extreme malignant narcissism and, you know, his obsession with, the mainstream media fawning over him. And, hopefully, though, that type of testimony would, generate accountability for others that may have been complicit that aren't covered by pardons. Oh, it certainly should.
Gerard Filitti: And that's the point of this testimony, that you want to see who was involved, who knew what, when they knew it, and what we need to do to address that, to impose consequences on bad behavior, and even without that, to make sure that this never, ever happens again, that we don't ruin our economy and our society, for something that we had complete control over. So, ultimately, this is a very important function that Congress, that the Senate is serving with this hearing. And for Fauci to invoke the Fifth in this manner is really. It just makes him look bad, especially because he has really nothing to fear in terms of being in jeopardy for his actions.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. Well, and if, the Senate ended up following up on contempt, how likely do you think it is just realistically, that a judge in D.C. would actually take the time to, you know, go through each of these and actually compel that testimony and say that, you know, this isn't a valid invocation of the Fifth? Well, that's what should happen.
Gerard Filitti: And you're. I mean, it's possible, of course, that we have an incompetent judge or one who doesn't want to, play by normal, procedure. But what normally happens is that a judge evaluates each question. It's not the blanket assertion of privilege. It's whether privilege was an approach, appropriate claim to a specific question. So, for example, If a question was, did the NIH award a grant? That's not something where privilege attaches. That's not something that the answer to which would place Fauci in jeopardy of prosecution. If the question was, did you knowingly mislead the public? Then that might be a different analysis. But a lot of these questions were really fact based questions, the answer to which would not implicate a crime. and I think that that's where Fauci went a little overboard in invoking the Fifth Amendment. And a federal judge, should see through that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, hopefully. And hopefully the Senate, will follow up on that. And it seems like Senator, Rand Paul, you know, is very persistent on this main issue. I mean, he's. And rightly so. I mean, I think that accountability, is something that all of us would like to see for the COVID years. But, from, you know, the Democrats perspective, they've been trying to get Trump, you know, on anything for a long time.
Is it possible that this could potentially, um, open up Trump himself to liability
Is it possible that this could potentially, open up Trump himself or members of his administration to liability? If, you know, some of that testimony indicated that, you know, that there was any sort of liability on decision making, or is Trump covered in that sense, by executive and other privileges?
Gerard Filitti: I think in large part Trump and most of the people who in his orbit would be covered by that executive privilege. Really, ultimately, the government is not responsible if it makes a bad decision on good faith. It's responsible if there is a flaw in the process or if there was a knowingly bad decision that was made or with the intent to have an adverse consequence. But basically putting your faith in the doctors and staff who work for you and, believing that they're being honest with the information that they're providing and making a decision based on that. That's not something that you would hold the President accountable for. The, flip side is that you want to hold accountable people if they had motivation to lie or withhold the truth. That is a break in the process. And that is something where you could be looking at criminal liability for those people.
Jenna Ellis: And, we only have about a minute left here. Jared Felitti. But you know, this is fascinating and least encouraging that, you know, unlike some of the other takes, that the accountability isn't really forthcoming. And we'll see. of course, with Foushee, what about any sort of a, challenge to the pardon itself? I mean, there was some discussion of that, from Andrew Bailey, who's now over at the FBI. really nothing has been done to follow up on that.
Gerard Filitti: I think that what we've seen in this is the history that the courts have looked at is that pardons are pretty absolute and very difficult, if actually impossible to challenge. and that I think that there is very little realistic basis that we're going to see a challenge to Fauci's pardon or any other pardon. And it cuts both ways. I think presidents on both sides want to make sure that the power to ah, pardon is absolute and not subject to questioning or you know, no take backs afterwards because in fact, who would even be in a position to rescind it? So I don't think that there is a good legal authority to question the, the pardons. It's more of a moral question of whether these were appropriate to begin with.
Jenna Ellis: All right, well, Gerard Felitti, really appreciate your analysis. you can follow him on X as well as the Lawfare Project. And we will be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
: America's 250th birthday. It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. Afa.net topics250 welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
One year since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, where do we stand spiritually today
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, I want to kind of shift gears, gears now a little bit to take more of a 30,000 foot perspective on where we're at right now at nearing the end of July. And as we often do on the program, we kind of take that perspective because right now we are at almost one year, since the heinous murder of my good friend Charlie Kirk and what was anticipated by a lot of Christians, in a very hopeful way to be kind of this revival and a spark at least of a nation here in America and perhaps a people globally that would return to the Lord and things of truth. And it, this has gotten really derailed I think, from m influence of course of the enemy. but there has been so much more controversy around the trial of the accused murderer and you know, whether there was a cover up and who was involved and all. And all of this that I think was intentionally designed to derail what should have been a focus on Charlie's life and his legacy as a testament to the truth of the person of truth, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So to talk more about this, I'm so excited to welcome back, Pastor Jack Hibbs, my dear friend who is the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. And Pastor Jack is. You know, we're here in the end of July and coming up soon on this one year anniversary. how do you view where we're at spiritually in this country?
Jack Hibbs: Well, Jenna, first of all, thank you for having me. you know, you and I talked, at that time, right after Charlie was assassinated, and, there was the discussion even previously about the revival. We were talking about people being baptized. And you and I discussed some pretty good theology back then. And that was, what are they getting baptized into? Is the gospel being preached? How will we know? And time will tell. You and I were very, very careful to, say that if it's a revival of God, time will tell because it will endure. And revivals affect the church. The church becomes remarkably attractive to the lost. And you see a tremendous influx of the unsaved coming to be saved. That said, we're looking around right now and what we're seeing is, what a lot of people, not all, thank God, but a lot of people, seem to have gone a little bit dormant, once Charlie was assassinated. Now, any revival, of course, is built on the word of God and, upon Jesus Christ. But, when people saw Charlie, be taken out like he was, I think it caused some people to ponder, to think of, you know, what. What's really going on here and what is the expense of this? I, I'm not going to name a name, but there was a particular federal prosecutor. You actually know who this person is, Jenna, who, was extre. Moved at Charlie's passing, as we all were. But then this individual says, man, if I'm going to follow Jesus and speak up and speak out, am I going to end up like Charlie? And I said, well, what does that matter? Because Charlie's in heaven. And the gospel part of revival, the gospel is living for the glory of God. Whatever God has in store for you, is glorious. And so that said, here we are, year ahead now since. And where are we? I have yet to see a real change in our culture. Revivals change culture because the church has changed and the church drives culture. And so that's. I'm still hopeful, but I gotta look around at the landscape of my nation and politics and culture and, I'M still Jenna in that wait and see mode.
Jenna Ellis: And I think that's very wise, of course, to be in that wait and see mode. And it's also, very biblically sobering because just before the program, you and I were talking, on a different note, of saying, you know, all of these things that we're seeing, have been predicted in Scripture. I mean, we know that things have to get so much worse before, the. The second coming of Christ and the end of all things is predicted in a literal, book of Revelation, and that is our eschatology, or understand understanding of the end times based on the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture. we don't take an allegorical view of Revelation or Genesis, by the way, as you were talking about prior to the show. And, and so, you know, these things are predictable. And so while we can have. And we. We can, perhaps pray for and, and anticipate a revival, if it is truly generated by the Holy Spirit, there will be pockets of those things, and of course, people will be coming into a saving knowledge of Christ until the end of all things. but when we see things go in a way that isn't preferred, and there may not be, revival or this, you know, recoming to Christ from a very apathetic overall church, and, you know, the state of evangelical, Protestantism and of. And even Catholicism, as well, just, you know, the apathy here in the United States and globally, that shouldn't discourage the Christian because these things have been predicted in Scripture. And we know that in the fullness of time, when the moment comes that, that is the fullness of time, then Christ will return. And so we can actually take comfort in that as Christians, while we still use every opportunity, as Ephesians 5 calls us to do, to take advantage of, of the time because the days are evil. So how would you encourage the Christian to maybe reconcile that? Because we do see a lot of headlines that are frustrating, but we also should continue on in hope and enjoy doing the work that we are called to as Christians, until he calls us home or returns.
Jack Hibbs: Jenna, there is no way for me to improve upon what you just said. And therein is my joy, my enthusiasm. I've been a Christian 50 years. I've never been more excited and more comforted by the Scriptures. Why is that? Well, first of all, after all these years in my short little life, God has never let me down. He's never, you know, contradicted himself in light of what you just announced, which was perfectly biblically accurate, I hope to see Jesus anytime. We're supposed to live with that expectancy. However, here in California, we are working so hard to not only advance the gospel, we're working so hard to get abortion, absolutely, removed from, from our politics and from the narrative of the, of the church and compromise. We're working so hard to get good candidates elected. And you might say, well, Jack, are you crazy? if you believe Jesus could come back soon or that, you know, everything's just going to go toward evil, so just give up. No, no, no. Jesus said there'd be days like this, but in light of all of it, we are to occupy till he comes. We are to be busy about our Father's business. And I love 2nd Corinthians 10:6. When I am obedient to Christ, my obedience to Christ will someday punish all disobedience. Meaning God is going to use your witness and my witness in a crooked and perverse generation to actually be part of the indictment against the ungodly. So I'm going to keep standing for what's right. I'm going to preach the gospel, unadulterated gospel. I'm also going to take voter registration. I'm going to call out the issues. We're going to point out good candidates, and on. By the way, we are going to have a camp for the youth, and we are planning on building expansion and all of these things, all the while knowing that Jesus could come for me at any time, but I want to be caught doing his business. There's no room for apathy and there's no room for us to be spectators if we really believe that God knows what he's talking about. This is a thrilling time in light of everything that's going on.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, it really is. And, you know, occupy until he comes isn't just, okay, sit here and wait or, or concern yourself with frivolous things of, of the world. And obviously we can take great joy and pleasure in, in the goodness of creation and the things that he has given us and the work of our hands and all of, you know, those wonderful passages as well, and, you know, joy in our friends and our family. but the point ultimately of our little lives is to know God and worship Him. And when we occupy ourselves with that, then we aren't really concerned then how and when our lives end, because as Paul, rightly says so beautifully, is to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord and who doesn't want to be present with the Lord, and we pray for that daily. Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus.
After Charlie was murdered, there was a renewed recognition of our own mortality
And so, you know, there was also this, this emphasis for people, especially in the modern conveniences and, just comforts that we have here in our society today that after Charlie was murdered, there was a renewed recognition of our own mortality. And I think even Christians can be guilty often of, of kind of delaying, thinking about eternity and focusing too much just on the present and, and not recognizing the urgency. And so, you know, when. When you're talking about some of these things that what, you're advocating for in California, what we should be advocating for in the policy space and civil society and all of this, those are things that are so important. Why? Because we need to occupy ourselves with the work of the gospel, which is first and foremost our. Ourselves and coming into a right relationship with him, but then sharing the truth of the gospel. And we have to be able to do that in a civil society without hindrance, and interference, from the government. And even just yesterday, Pastor Jack, it was so frustrating that Anthony Fauci was testifying in front of the Senate and just pled the fifth and said, you know, there's no accountability. there's nothing that's. That's going to happen. And, you know, we. We need to ensure that our civil institutions are not interfering, in any way with the advocacy of truth.
Jack Hibbs: Well, you. Look, you and I are the same DNA, and we get it. However, if a Christian says today, I don't get in. I'm not going to get involved. I'm not going to take my Christianity into the public square. I, It's more of a private thing between me and God. Well, the Bible knows no such faith. Our faith is active and our faith is engaging in. And in fact, Jenna, I just read the other day how the Roman gladiator games where people were slaughtered on the arena, on the sand of the Colosseum, there's a guy by the name of Telemachus. he converts to Jesus Christ and he winds up challenging the emperor that this is ungodly. It is wrong that humans are being sacrificed and Rome should know better. And it actually cost him his life. But the conscience of the emperor was so convicted that because of Telemachus sacrifice, the Roman gladiator games, were suspended and then eventually ended because of this one man's influence in the Roman Empire. You and I are supposed to live the same way. So there may or may not be accountability for Fauci, who in my Opinion is the world's most, dangerous serial killer, in the history of man based upon his policies. That's my opinion. But you can't hold somebody accountable unless you have standards that require accountability. Our government currently is far from God. Our culture is far from God. So it's not going to matter, in a sense, unless our leaders get back to the, the foundation of God's justice, God's word. I mean, you've been to the Supreme Court, Jenna. You've seen that the number one iconic figure all the way around that that building is, or on the inside of that chamber is Moses himself. But we're not obeying what God wrote through Moses. We're departing from that. And then we wonder why things are going astray. And our founding fathers made it very clear, this nation, our government, was founded upon Judeo Christian worldview value. So if there is going to be a revival, I don't think it's going to be a revival of Christian concerts. I don't think it's going to be a revival of baptisms. I don't think it's going to be a revival of even church attendance. If it's going to be a revival in the condition America is in right now, it's going to be a revival of holiness.
Jenna Ellis: M. so well said, and it's so true and such a great point that while we, as a base perhaps of Republicans, are calling for accountability, what does accountability mean, absent the biblical value of justice? Because we've seen what the left tries to do with social justice, these Marxist sort of hierarchies, and they have this perverted notion of what an applied justice through their false worldview lens means. And that's not what we should be calling for at all. And yet when we have departed from a biblical worldview in civil society, then we can't enact meaningful justice often when, we don't even know what that means as a society anymore. And we have all of these opinions that people want, to see, people like Dr. Fauci, for example, fall almost in this kind of hubristic way, not because they're actually calling for justice. And I'm not, you know, condemning everybody's criticism of Fauci at all. But are we actually in these moments wanting true justice, or are we just looking at sort of the political winners and losers, with almost like you're referring to the Roman Coliseum, almost like a sporting event. And, and that's what politics often has become. And, you know, Charlie saw it very differently. You and I see it very differently that politics is an outflow of culture. And culture should be a manifestation of the biblical worldview. And if we have a culture that is dedicated to the Lord, we will have a body politic that reflects that, any legitimate civil government. And so, you know, as we're reviewing kind of this landscape, it always comes back to the church and the failure really of the overall Christian church in America to focus more on theology and knowledge of the truth and the things of God instead of, you know, these rock concerts or these, you know, frivolous TED talks or these self help things that aren't controversial and ultimately are just as meaningless as, you know, a self help book. You could go down to the local bookstore, get off of Amazon.
Jack Hibbs: Yeah, yeah. So again, well said. You know, just, just throwing this out there. Isn't there an interesting timeline and correlation where since Charlie's passing, which in many ways God was using Charlie almost as the conscience of our nation, with how he spoke and what he spoke about and how he delivered that and the love for country and the love for constitution. So Charlie is silenced. What has happened since then? In, in about almost 12 months, so to speak, close to it. what has risen? What has been the most, blatant revival of thought in our nation? Well, it goes back to the 50s, believe it or not, in the 60s there's been a revival of socialistic communistic thought, which a lot of Christians don't get it. They don't realize that socialism and communism is absolutely dependent upon and rooted in atheism. So what's happening is we're seeing all this, all these states flirting with socialist candidates and communist candidates and they're getting elected to the upcoming, midterms, not realizing that the Islamic doctrines and atheistic doctrines can walk hand in hand. One is a religious cult, the other one is a religious atheistic. And the common goal is silence. The Judeo Christian worldview. The Constitution is bad. Our founders were white, mean, rich slave owners. We don't know. For 250 years we have not known what we are doing. But here comes the answer. A godless culture. And Islam will use that. Jenna, you know history. Islam will use this rhetoric to destroy its opponent, which is the gospel of Christ. And then what happens is they wind up warned against each other and an atheistic, world will prevail unless the church speaks up. Throughout all of human history, the only thing to stop the advancement of atheism or Islamism is the church. And the question is today, is the church strong enough, knowledgeable enough Spirit filled enough, engaged enough to stop the advancement of this darkness. And I don't think she is.
Jenna Ellis: Wow. And we have to take a break here, Pastor Jack Hibbs. But, you're going to follow us through the break to continue talking about the importance of the biblical worldview and the state of the church right now. So we'll be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the morning.
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: It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. Afa.net topics250 welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna New York: How should Christians advocate against socialism and communism
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm still here with my special guest, Pastor Jack Hibbs, pastor of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in California. And we've been talking about kind of the state of the church and as we're almost to the one year anniversary of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, where we're at in terms of the Christian worldview, engaging with, with culture and you know, one of the things that you were just saying at the end, toward, the end of the last segment, Pastor Jack, was about this rise of socialism. And what's fascinating to me about the conversation, generally speaking, among conservatives who are even talking about it, I mean, some, don't necessarily care. They don't, they don't understand it or they don't see the danger of it, or they're just talking from kind of a pragmatist view of, of, well, what does it mean to solve affordability right now and where are we at in the economy? They want kind of these practical solutions. A lot of the conversation has focused on capitalism versus socialism and not the underlying worldview of why private property rights, for example, are a right that we have as human beings made in the image of God. And how a biblical worldview necessarily, by definition eliminates some possibilities of a, systems of government when it comes to discussions on the economy or on property rights or on government control. And those, those things can't be argued just at a top level. We always have to come back to a biblical worldview basis and the objective standard. Otherwise we're just arguing on kind of a social contract playing field and we are making a false equivalency of the morality of each of these independent views. And so from a pastoral biblical worldview, how should Christians advocate against socialism and communism? Not just from an economic theory standpoint, but from a biblical worldview?
Jack Hibbs: Well, it's. We have to back up, number one, what nation, and I'm being sarcastic by asking this. What nation in the history of man has been the most generous and compassionate nation with tangible responses to hunger, slavery, disasters, natural or war? It's the United States, hands down. Nobody comes close. Why is that the case? Because America was founded upon and acted upon a Judeo Christian worldview value which so permeated even our culture that. Jenna, you're too young to know this, but I'm not. I remember people running for office who said, please elect me to be your public servant. Public servant? The government was to service our liberties and freedoms for us. It's we the people. It's the first time in world history where a nation was a nation where the people had the final say. The people voted. It wasn't the divine rights of kings. Our founding fathers gave us the most unique experiments and Franklin said we need to preserve that. I'm concerned about us preserving it when we allow an opposing view that is self centered, atheistic and says whatever you have belongs to all of us collectively. But we know from history that somebody will always step into that argument and they'll seize power like a Mao, like a Marx, like a Lenin, like a Stalin. And they will begin to dictate. That's the way it works. And if the church doesn't understand that private ownership is stewardship, forget the argument of capitalism versus socialism. You can even preempt that by saying God wants me to own things privately and to even prosper in what I own so that I can not only provide for my family, for my community, but also provide for those who are hurting and need help that can only come from a compassionate individual and local culture that understands that we are to love our neighbor. And so again, the church is failing in this social argument because it doesn't understand what it's holding. It's almost like we're like a two year old holding the power of a chainsaw. You would never hand a chainsaw to a two year old. But here's here, you know, we're holding this government that's been handed to us. And I'm wondering, after 250 years, what are we celebrating? Do we even know what we're celebrating? Are we celebrating baseball or just 250 years? Or are we celebrating a, nation that was free and all of that founded upon the fact that liberty and freedom, as Samuel Adams said, was something that came from God himself, not from us. And are we free today? Are we heading in the direction of freedom? Or like NewSong York City, which is a little example, look what's happening under the thinking of Mandani. It's not going well already. But that is just a hint. Unless we engage the culture with our Judeo Christian value. And we must understand that for me, for Jenna, we are going to take our faith into the public square and shine the light and the influence of the gospel and how we talk, what we stand for, how we vote, how we live. And my neighbors, Jenna, I live, I have neighbors on both sides of me that are atheistic and extremely progressive. But you know what, And I say this humbly, gratefully, when something happens at their home or with their kids, they call Lisa and I, we love them. They know who to go to when they're in trouble. That's being a Christian witness. And yet at the same time they know I'm diametrically opposed. Opposed to their worldview. There's their worldview will fail, mine will succeed. Not because it's mine, but it's because it's God's.
Jenna Ellis: Absolutely. And you know, this is where, the founders understood more than just the principles of capitalism or the nuts and bolts that they put into the US Constitution. They understood the underlying worldview and what freedom and liberty actually mean. In a, in the context of a biblical and a truthful worldview. And you know, while we can point to different aspects of the founders personal lives and say, you know, well, maybe they weren't these, you know, perfect sincere Christians, I mean, I always say you can point to aspects of my life and say, you know, I'm not a perfect Christian, of course, and this is why daily sanctification matters. But their overall arguments and the overall understanding of what they put into the Declaration of Independence, which thankfully we did just celebrate in our 250th back on July 4th, was that they understood that truth exists, it's objective, it's discoverable, and that part of that truth is that the God of the Bible created, and he created human beings in his image and endowed us with certain inalienable rights and that all else of civil government flows from that not just premise, but that reality. And we need leaders in Washington and in the States that actually understand that and are willing to advocate for it. And in the church of course, as we're talking about. But it's so hard, Pastor Jack, especially in this, this age of noise where there are so many different options to get our news or to think for the people who, who are chasing the, the clicks and the views and the fame and the money and all of this. It's much easier to not be divisive, that, and just go along with whatever you know, one party platform says or the majority of listeners want instead of taking the position that there is truth, truth and there's falsity, that's just anything either is true or it's not based on the objective standard. And that's always going to be divisive by its own nature. And, and because you will end up offending some category or segment of those that you are teaching or who are listening to you. And if you don't want to lose some of those, those people who just want to hear what they want, want what they prefer in this kind of confirmation bias, then you won't say anything controversial. And that's, that's where unfortunately a lot of pastors are today. And I'm so grateful you are not one of them. You're willing to speak the hard truth regardless of who comes back on Sunday mornings because you're teaching to the people who are willing to listen to the truth. And we have to hopefully incentivize in some way churches to get back to the main thing instead of building their metric based on the capitalistic sort of principles of business enterprises. I mean, that's what a lot of churches, they're a business model anymore instead of a model of being the church and being truth tellers. How do we get back to that?
Pastor Jack says social media has inspired more intolerance rather than courage
Jack Hibbs: Yeah, I just said that last Wednesday night in our services a, week ago, where I'm wondering how many people who attend church in America attend a NewSong Testament church? You know, just because you go to a church doesn't mean it's a NewSong Testament church. It's got to meet the qualifications of what the NewSong Testament lays out for what a Christian church is. But that said is, it's a remarkable moment where, we, we exercise some sort of faith by proclamation, but then we run home to see how many likes we have or how many clicks or comments. And look, if a pastor is involved in that, that, then it's all the more grievous because the, the pastor should divorce himself from the opinions of the world and get his, get his marching orders from the scriptures, from the Holy Spirit. And if somebody says, well, if you don't, if you don't like me, you know, if you don't, acquiesce to my position, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna unfriend you, if that matters to you. You're probably not mature enough to operate in the social media world. So the truth of the matter is, if you have 100 friends on Facebook, this we know for sure, you really do not have 100 friends, because a friend is going to come to you in a time of need and help you out. They're not going to turn on you because you have a different opinion we've created in the social media. I would insert the fear of man as a snare world in which we live in that we are terrified if somebody disagrees with our view. So the answer is, we think, don't share anything that is of controversy. Don't say that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. That's controversial. Don't say that there's a hell. Only talk about a heaven, because that's controversial. Listen, that is the off ramp from truth. You're going to go on this off ramp down a road that is just disastrous. And pastors of all people, pastors, we need to lead people out of the morass and of the fog of deception. And Jenna, I guess I'm a dinosaur because even though I've got, you know, millions of followers, so to speak, on social media, I cannot let that influence me. And what I say, I've got one person to make sure that there's a friendship relationship that I have, and I have to maintain that. And that is the Lord Jesus Christ, by the Holy Spirit, in obedience to the word of God.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. And that's all that matters. And. Absolutely. And it's fascinating to me that in this age of noise, instead of creating more courage, because more people have the opportunity to create a platform that is unmoored by the gatekeeping of the, you know, mainstream media or kind of the big bureaucracy and all this, that instead of inspiring courage, it actually has, has inspired more of this kind of mob mentality, social proof, cohesion. And of course, you know, we, we kind of naturally devolve to, to the worst possible, ah, lowest common denominator. But I wish that this were inspiring more courage and I hope that, for those listening to this program, you will be inspired to continue to speak out in truth, regardless of your haters or regardless of, you know, the social media account or, or whatever. I mean, none of us who have a following, hopefully, who are speaking truth, got into this because that was ultimately the goal. I mean, I certainly didn't, when I, I prayed years ago for the Lord to expand, my ministry and allow me an opportunity to speak, truth in the realm of, you know, law and politics and from a biblical worldview. And he has more than answered that prayer beyond, you know, my wildest imagination. I've recognized that, you know, this platform, whatever it is that I have ultimately belongs to him and it is a stewardship, as you mentioned, Pastor Jack. And we need to go back to recognizing that instead of being focused on our own brand or, you know, oh, people disagree with me or they don't understand why I made certain decisions or, you know, or whatever, or they just don't like me because of, you know, one position I've taken or because I've supported Trump or not supported him on other issues. I mean, people are so fickle and the truth and the principles must remain.
Jenna Ellis: Christians need to make decisions about authority in life
And so just in the last, two minutes or so I have with you, as we are coming up on, on the anniversary of, you know, remembering Charlie, how should Christians live in trying to harness that courage and pray for courage to stand up and speak truth in a society that in all forms has always been hostile to truth?
Jack Hibbs: Yeah. I'm going to answer that in two ways. Number one, first of all, I thank God that so much of what Charlie said, his, gatherings on college campuses is archived and there available. We use YouTube to teach our Grandchildren by using Charlie's material. It's available. That's wonderful. But the other thing is this, which is the most important thing, is that, for us, we've got to make the determination what will be the authority of my life, what is going to shape my life, what am I going to allow today to be the influence over my life? And Jenna, I'm a big fan of this. I used to discipline myself in the area before I was a Christian. Christian. I would discipline myself to make sure that I was the best at obtaining my fleshly appetites. I worked hard at that. I worked hard at making sure I could sin very effectively. When I became a Christian, I took that passion. God sanctified it. A great word that you used a moment ago. And I disciplined my life to follow Jesus. I did not do what I wanted to do. I wanted to do what he has written down to do. That said, we need to decide now, no matter what direction the barometer or the weather vane is pointing, no matter what's trending, the authority of my life will be a daily consumption first of the word of God before I encounter anything else. I will not. I do not get up and check my text or my emails or social media. I first go to the word of God, and only then am I qualified to deal with the world around me. So a biblical diet first. And I think if we begin to do that, much of our spiritual health will begin to improve.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. Amen. And that's really as simple as it is, and as difficult as as it is to daily be in the Word and be consuming the truth so that then our mind is daily renewed, by the truth and the knowledge of God. So that the way that which we, approach life, we approach topics, we approach, our advocacy. All of these things are always influenced by truth. So, Pastor Jack, I so appreciate you coming on, so often. We always love, when I get to speak with you and thank you so much for your passion and your courage for the truth. And, that is all the time that we have today on Jenna Ellis in the morning. As always, you can reach me and my team. Jennaafr.net. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com afr.
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Dr. Anthony Fauci invoked Fifth Amendment during Senate hearing yesterday
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Thursday, July 30, and yesterday was supposed to be the big accountability day for Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was, hauled into a the Senate hearing, where Rand Paul, Senator Rand Paul, said beforehand, which may not have been the wisest thing, that if Foushee's responses led him to commit perjury, that would not be covered by his Biden auto pin pardon. And so Foushee ended up pleading the fifth. In his opening statement at the Senate hearing, he accused Senator Rand Paul of a slander campaign against him and invoked the fifth Amendment, during that opening statement, that coming from Fox News. And he said in his, opening statement, quote, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason is to get me to say something, anything that could vindicate his Rand Paul's repeated public pledges that I end up in his words, quote, behind bars, unquote. Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the great respect I have for the legislative branch of the government and my decades long career in government, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the fifth amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions. Well, unfortunately that was probably the wise advice from his attorneys. But let's welcome in Gerard Felitti, who is senior counsel at the Lawfare Project. And Gerard, this is probably predictable. why would Fauci not invoke the fifth Amendment? but it of course then continues to lead to the public outcry demanding for accountability. What are your thoughts?
Gerard Filitti: Well, it certainly does lead to the continued outcry watching the testimony and seeing the questions and how he refused to answer each and every single one, invoking the Fifth Amendment is sure to infuriate most Americans. But I think this is only the beginning of the process. I think that his invocation of the Fifth Amendment actually opens the door to legal jeopardy for him. and what will likely follow is a congressional vote on contempt, followed by this going to federal court to assess whether or not he validly invokes Fifth Amendment privilege. So I think this is just the beginning. This is act one. We have yet to see act two.
Jenna Ellis: Oh, interesting. So how could that process play out? That, while he has a constitutionally protected right, as Senator Lankford and others acknowledged contemporaneously in the hearing, how could that lead potentially to contempt? Well, he has. The fact that.
Gerard Filitti: That she received a pardon from President Biden means that he has no credible fear of prosecution for federal crimes for anything up until, he received that pardon. So January 20th of 2025, that includes previous congressional testimony. So in order to assert the Fifth Amendment privilege, you have to have that threat of federal prosecution hanging over you. so Dr. Fauci basically is asserting amendment because he is worried that what he testified to at this hearing would be a perjury trap, that he would expose himself to prosecution by something not covered. And, that's not sufficient grounds to, he would need to explain to a judge which. And a judge would look at each and every single question to determine whether answering that question would pose a real and appreciable danger of criminal prosecution.
Jenna Ellis: Interesting. And, you know, and hopefully this is, a way that, the Senate will proceed. And, and you're absolutely right in terms of invocation of, the Fifth Amendment. And so, you know, it seems that his objection is basically entrapment. But if, the. The subject matter is covered by the pardon, then what would realistically, his, potential perjury as. As Rand Paul was even openly discussing saying, you know, if he commits perjury at this hearing, then that wouldn't be covered by the pardon. So would that be enough of an appreciable risk that he could properly invoke?
Gerard Filitti: Almost definitely not, because all he has to do to not face that jeopardy is to testify truthfully, as painful as that truth may be. So, hypothetically speaking, if you were to testify. Yes, I knew all along that Covid was a joke. And, we created it and we released it, and, all the countermeasures we suggested were nothing, then America would be shocked, but he would face no Jeopardy for his testimony, because he'd be testifying, hypothetically speaking, truthfully. So the perjury trap is a lot to hang, an assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege on, because the court will tell him that all you have to do is answer truthfully, and you don't have to worry about prosecution unless you can name or you can identify, that legitimate concern. Now, he can also be prosecuted under state law for state crimes, but it's very difficult to come up with any crime in any state that, he would credibly be charged with at this point. And.
Jenna Ellis: And, of course, if he testifies truthfully and makes any kind of admissions, like, you know, in your hypothetical, that, you know, that we. We know that the evidence points to at this point, that would completely destroy his reputation. And, you know, we know from the. The diary pages that have been released by Rand Paul, you know, his extreme malignant narcissism and, you know, his obsession with, the mainstream media fawning over him. And, hopefully, though, that type of testimony would, generate accountability for others that may have been complicit that aren't covered by pardons. Oh, it certainly should.
Gerard Filitti: And that's the point of this testimony, that you want to see who was involved, who knew what, when they knew it, and what we need to do to address that, to impose consequences on bad behavior, and even without that, to make sure that this never, ever happens again, that we don't ruin our economy and our society, for something that we had complete control over. So, ultimately, this is a very important function that Congress, that the Senate is serving with this hearing. And for Fauci to invoke the Fifth in this manner is really. It just makes him look bad, especially because he has really nothing to fear in terms of being in jeopardy for his actions.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. Well, and if, the Senate ended up following up on contempt, how likely do you think it is just realistically, that a judge in D.C. would actually take the time to, you know, go through each of these and actually compel that testimony and say that, you know, this isn't a valid invocation of the Fifth? Well, that's what should happen.
Gerard Filitti: And you're. I mean, it's possible, of course, that we have an incompetent judge or one who doesn't want to, play by normal, procedure. But what normally happens is that a judge evaluates each question. It's not the blanket assertion of privilege. It's whether privilege was an approach, appropriate claim to a specific question. So, for example, If a question was, did the NIH award a grant? That's not something where privilege attaches. That's not something that the answer to which would place Fauci in jeopardy of prosecution. If the question was, did you knowingly mislead the public? Then that might be a different analysis. But a lot of these questions were really fact based questions, the answer to which would not implicate a crime. and I think that that's where Fauci went a little overboard in invoking the Fifth Amendment. And a federal judge, should see through that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, hopefully. And hopefully the Senate, will follow up on that. And it seems like Senator, Rand Paul, you know, is very persistent on this main issue. I mean, he's. And rightly so. I mean, I think that accountability, is something that all of us would like to see for the COVID years. But, from, you know, the Democrats perspective, they've been trying to get Trump, you know, on anything for a long time.
Is it possible that this could potentially, um, open up Trump himself to liability
Is it possible that this could potentially, open up Trump himself or members of his administration to liability? If, you know, some of that testimony indicated that, you know, that there was any sort of liability on decision making, or is Trump covered in that sense, by executive and other privileges?
Gerard Filitti: I think in large part Trump and most of the people who in his orbit would be covered by that executive privilege. Really, ultimately, the government is not responsible if it makes a bad decision on good faith. It's responsible if there is a flaw in the process or if there was a knowingly bad decision that was made or with the intent to have an adverse consequence. But basically putting your faith in the doctors and staff who work for you and, believing that they're being honest with the information that they're providing and making a decision based on that. That's not something that you would hold the President accountable for. The, flip side is that you want to hold accountable people if they had motivation to lie or withhold the truth. That is a break in the process. And that is something where you could be looking at criminal liability for those people.
Jenna Ellis: And, we only have about a minute left here. Jared Felitti. But you know, this is fascinating and least encouraging that, you know, unlike some of the other takes, that the accountability isn't really forthcoming. And we'll see. of course, with Foushee, what about any sort of a, challenge to the pardon itself? I mean, there was some discussion of that, from Andrew Bailey, who's now over at the FBI. really nothing has been done to follow up on that.
Gerard Filitti: I think that what we've seen in this is the history that the courts have looked at is that pardons are pretty absolute and very difficult, if actually impossible to challenge. and that I think that there is very little realistic basis that we're going to see a challenge to Fauci's pardon or any other pardon. And it cuts both ways. I think presidents on both sides want to make sure that the power to ah, pardon is absolute and not subject to questioning or you know, no take backs afterwards because in fact, who would even be in a position to rescind it? So I don't think that there is a good legal authority to question the, the pardons. It's more of a moral question of whether these were appropriate to begin with.
Jenna Ellis: All right, well, Gerard Felitti, really appreciate your analysis. you can follow him on X as well as the Lawfare Project. And we will be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
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One year since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, where do we stand spiritually today
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, I want to kind of shift gears, gears now a little bit to take more of a 30,000 foot perspective on where we're at right now at nearing the end of July. And as we often do on the program, we kind of take that perspective because right now we are at almost one year, since the heinous murder of my good friend Charlie Kirk and what was anticipated by a lot of Christians, in a very hopeful way to be kind of this revival and a spark at least of a nation here in America and perhaps a people globally that would return to the Lord and things of truth. And it, this has gotten really derailed I think, from m influence of course of the enemy. but there has been so much more controversy around the trial of the accused murderer and you know, whether there was a cover up and who was involved and all. And all of this that I think was intentionally designed to derail what should have been a focus on Charlie's life and his legacy as a testament to the truth of the person of truth, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So to talk more about this, I'm so excited to welcome back, Pastor Jack Hibbs, my dear friend who is the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. And Pastor Jack is. You know, we're here in the end of July and coming up soon on this one year anniversary. how do you view where we're at spiritually in this country?
Jack Hibbs: Well, Jenna, first of all, thank you for having me. you know, you and I talked, at that time, right after Charlie was assassinated, and, there was the discussion even previously about the revival. We were talking about people being baptized. And you and I discussed some pretty good theology back then. And that was, what are they getting baptized into? Is the gospel being preached? How will we know? And time will tell. You and I were very, very careful to, say that if it's a revival of God, time will tell because it will endure. And revivals affect the church. The church becomes remarkably attractive to the lost. And you see a tremendous influx of the unsaved coming to be saved. That said, we're looking around right now and what we're seeing is, what a lot of people, not all, thank God, but a lot of people, seem to have gone a little bit dormant, once Charlie was assassinated. Now, any revival, of course, is built on the word of God and, upon Jesus Christ. But, when people saw Charlie, be taken out like he was, I think it caused some people to ponder, to think of, you know, what. What's really going on here and what is the expense of this? I, I'm not going to name a name, but there was a particular federal prosecutor. You actually know who this person is, Jenna, who, was extre. Moved at Charlie's passing, as we all were. But then this individual says, man, if I'm going to follow Jesus and speak up and speak out, am I going to end up like Charlie? And I said, well, what does that matter? Because Charlie's in heaven. And the gospel part of revival, the gospel is living for the glory of God. Whatever God has in store for you, is glorious. And so that said, here we are, year ahead now since. And where are we? I have yet to see a real change in our culture. Revivals change culture because the church has changed and the church drives culture. And so that's. I'm still hopeful, but I gotta look around at the landscape of my nation and politics and culture and, I'M still Jenna in that wait and see mode.
Jenna Ellis: And I think that's very wise, of course, to be in that wait and see mode. And it's also, very biblically sobering because just before the program, you and I were talking, on a different note, of saying, you know, all of these things that we're seeing, have been predicted in Scripture. I mean, we know that things have to get so much worse before, the. The second coming of Christ and the end of all things is predicted in a literal, book of Revelation, and that is our eschatology, or understand understanding of the end times based on the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture. we don't take an allegorical view of Revelation or Genesis, by the way, as you were talking about prior to the show. And, and so, you know, these things are predictable. And so while we can have. And we. We can, perhaps pray for and, and anticipate a revival, if it is truly generated by the Holy Spirit, there will be pockets of those things, and of course, people will be coming into a saving knowledge of Christ until the end of all things. but when we see things go in a way that isn't preferred, and there may not be, revival or this, you know, recoming to Christ from a very apathetic overall church, and, you know, the state of evangelical, Protestantism and of. And even Catholicism, as well, just, you know, the apathy here in the United States and globally, that shouldn't discourage the Christian because these things have been predicted in Scripture. And we know that in the fullness of time, when the moment comes that, that is the fullness of time, then Christ will return. And so we can actually take comfort in that as Christians, while we still use every opportunity, as Ephesians 5 calls us to do, to take advantage of, of the time because the days are evil. So how would you encourage the Christian to maybe reconcile that? Because we do see a lot of headlines that are frustrating, but we also should continue on in hope and enjoy doing the work that we are called to as Christians, until he calls us home or returns.
Jack Hibbs: Jenna, there is no way for me to improve upon what you just said. And therein is my joy, my enthusiasm. I've been a Christian 50 years. I've never been more excited and more comforted by the Scriptures. Why is that? Well, first of all, after all these years in my short little life, God has never let me down. He's never, you know, contradicted himself in light of what you just announced, which was perfectly biblically accurate, I hope to see Jesus anytime. We're supposed to live with that expectancy. However, here in California, we are working so hard to not only advance the gospel, we're working so hard to get abortion, absolutely, removed from, from our politics and from the narrative of the, of the church and compromise. We're working so hard to get good candidates elected. And you might say, well, Jack, are you crazy? if you believe Jesus could come back soon or that, you know, everything's just going to go toward evil, so just give up. No, no, no. Jesus said there'd be days like this, but in light of all of it, we are to occupy till he comes. We are to be busy about our Father's business. And I love 2nd Corinthians 10:6. When I am obedient to Christ, my obedience to Christ will someday punish all disobedience. Meaning God is going to use your witness and my witness in a crooked and perverse generation to actually be part of the indictment against the ungodly. So I'm going to keep standing for what's right. I'm going to preach the gospel, unadulterated gospel. I'm also going to take voter registration. I'm going to call out the issues. We're going to point out good candidates, and on. By the way, we are going to have a camp for the youth, and we are planning on building expansion and all of these things, all the while knowing that Jesus could come for me at any time, but I want to be caught doing his business. There's no room for apathy and there's no room for us to be spectators if we really believe that God knows what he's talking about. This is a thrilling time in light of everything that's going on.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, it really is. And, you know, occupy until he comes isn't just, okay, sit here and wait or, or concern yourself with frivolous things of, of the world. And obviously we can take great joy and pleasure in, in the goodness of creation and the things that he has given us and the work of our hands and all of, you know, those wonderful passages as well, and, you know, joy in our friends and our family. but the point ultimately of our little lives is to know God and worship Him. And when we occupy ourselves with that, then we aren't really concerned then how and when our lives end, because as Paul, rightly says so beautifully, is to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord and who doesn't want to be present with the Lord, and we pray for that daily. Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus.
After Charlie was murdered, there was a renewed recognition of our own mortality
And so, you know, there was also this, this emphasis for people, especially in the modern conveniences and, just comforts that we have here in our society today that after Charlie was murdered, there was a renewed recognition of our own mortality. And I think even Christians can be guilty often of, of kind of delaying, thinking about eternity and focusing too much just on the present and, and not recognizing the urgency. And so, you know, when. When you're talking about some of these things that what, you're advocating for in California, what we should be advocating for in the policy space and civil society and all of this, those are things that are so important. Why? Because we need to occupy ourselves with the work of the gospel, which is first and foremost our. Ourselves and coming into a right relationship with him, but then sharing the truth of the gospel. And we have to be able to do that in a civil society without hindrance, and interference, from the government. And even just yesterday, Pastor Jack, it was so frustrating that Anthony Fauci was testifying in front of the Senate and just pled the fifth and said, you know, there's no accountability. there's nothing that's. That's going to happen. And, you know, we. We need to ensure that our civil institutions are not interfering, in any way with the advocacy of truth.
Jack Hibbs: Well, you. Look, you and I are the same DNA, and we get it. However, if a Christian says today, I don't get in. I'm not going to get involved. I'm not going to take my Christianity into the public square. I, It's more of a private thing between me and God. Well, the Bible knows no such faith. Our faith is active and our faith is engaging in. And in fact, Jenna, I just read the other day how the Roman gladiator games where people were slaughtered on the arena, on the sand of the Colosseum, there's a guy by the name of Telemachus. he converts to Jesus Christ and he winds up challenging the emperor that this is ungodly. It is wrong that humans are being sacrificed and Rome should know better. And it actually cost him his life. But the conscience of the emperor was so convicted that because of Telemachus sacrifice, the Roman gladiator games, were suspended and then eventually ended because of this one man's influence in the Roman Empire. You and I are supposed to live the same way. So there may or may not be accountability for Fauci, who in my Opinion is the world's most, dangerous serial killer, in the history of man based upon his policies. That's my opinion. But you can't hold somebody accountable unless you have standards that require accountability. Our government currently is far from God. Our culture is far from God. So it's not going to matter, in a sense, unless our leaders get back to the, the foundation of God's justice, God's word. I mean, you've been to the Supreme Court, Jenna. You've seen that the number one iconic figure all the way around that that building is, or on the inside of that chamber is Moses himself. But we're not obeying what God wrote through Moses. We're departing from that. And then we wonder why things are going astray. And our founding fathers made it very clear, this nation, our government, was founded upon Judeo Christian worldview value. So if there is going to be a revival, I don't think it's going to be a revival of Christian concerts. I don't think it's going to be a revival of baptisms. I don't think it's going to be a revival of even church attendance. If it's going to be a revival in the condition America is in right now, it's going to be a revival of holiness.
Jenna Ellis: M. so well said, and it's so true and such a great point that while we, as a base perhaps of Republicans, are calling for accountability, what does accountability mean, absent the biblical value of justice? Because we've seen what the left tries to do with social justice, these Marxist sort of hierarchies, and they have this perverted notion of what an applied justice through their false worldview lens means. And that's not what we should be calling for at all. And yet when we have departed from a biblical worldview in civil society, then we can't enact meaningful justice often when, we don't even know what that means as a society anymore. And we have all of these opinions that people want, to see, people like Dr. Fauci, for example, fall almost in this kind of hubristic way, not because they're actually calling for justice. And I'm not, you know, condemning everybody's criticism of Fauci at all. But are we actually in these moments wanting true justice, or are we just looking at sort of the political winners and losers, with almost like you're referring to the Roman Coliseum, almost like a sporting event. And, and that's what politics often has become. And, you know, Charlie saw it very differently. You and I see it very differently that politics is an outflow of culture. And culture should be a manifestation of the biblical worldview. And if we have a culture that is dedicated to the Lord, we will have a body politic that reflects that, any legitimate civil government. And so, you know, as we're reviewing kind of this landscape, it always comes back to the church and the failure really of the overall Christian church in America to focus more on theology and knowledge of the truth and the things of God instead of, you know, these rock concerts or these, you know, frivolous TED talks or these self help things that aren't controversial and ultimately are just as meaningless as, you know, a self help book. You could go down to the local bookstore, get off of Amazon.
Jack Hibbs: Yeah, yeah. So again, well said. You know, just, just throwing this out there. Isn't there an interesting timeline and correlation where since Charlie's passing, which in many ways God was using Charlie almost as the conscience of our nation, with how he spoke and what he spoke about and how he delivered that and the love for country and the love for constitution. So Charlie is silenced. What has happened since then? In, in about almost 12 months, so to speak, close to it. what has risen? What has been the most, blatant revival of thought in our nation? Well, it goes back to the 50s, believe it or not, in the 60s there's been a revival of socialistic communistic thought, which a lot of Christians don't get it. They don't realize that socialism and communism is absolutely dependent upon and rooted in atheism. So what's happening is we're seeing all this, all these states flirting with socialist candidates and communist candidates and they're getting elected to the upcoming, midterms, not realizing that the Islamic doctrines and atheistic doctrines can walk hand in hand. One is a religious cult, the other one is a religious atheistic. And the common goal is silence. The Judeo Christian worldview. The Constitution is bad. Our founders were white, mean, rich slave owners. We don't know. For 250 years we have not known what we are doing. But here comes the answer. A godless culture. And Islam will use that. Jenna, you know history. Islam will use this rhetoric to destroy its opponent, which is the gospel of Christ. And then what happens is they wind up warned against each other and an atheistic, world will prevail unless the church speaks up. Throughout all of human history, the only thing to stop the advancement of atheism or Islamism is the church. And the question is today, is the church strong enough, knowledgeable enough Spirit filled enough, engaged enough to stop the advancement of this darkness. And I don't think she is.
Jenna Ellis: Wow. And we have to take a break here, Pastor Jack Hibbs. But, you're going to follow us through the break to continue talking about the importance of the biblical worldview and the state of the church right now. So we'll be right back with more here on Jenna Ellis in the morning.
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Jack Hibbs: when everything changed because when I saw my baby and when I heard her heartbeat, that was it.
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Jenna New York: How should Christians advocate against socialism and communism
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm still here with my special guest, Pastor Jack Hibbs, pastor of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in California. And we've been talking about kind of the state of the church and as we're almost to the one year anniversary of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, where we're at in terms of the Christian worldview, engaging with, with culture and you know, one of the things that you were just saying at the end, toward, the end of the last segment, Pastor Jack, was about this rise of socialism. And what's fascinating to me about the conversation, generally speaking, among conservatives who are even talking about it, I mean, some, don't necessarily care. They don't, they don't understand it or they don't see the danger of it, or they're just talking from kind of a pragmatist view of, of, well, what does it mean to solve affordability right now and where are we at in the economy? They want kind of these practical solutions. A lot of the conversation has focused on capitalism versus socialism and not the underlying worldview of why private property rights, for example, are a right that we have as human beings made in the image of God. And how a biblical worldview necessarily, by definition eliminates some possibilities of a, systems of government when it comes to discussions on the economy or on property rights or on government control. And those, those things can't be argued just at a top level. We always have to come back to a biblical worldview basis and the objective standard. Otherwise we're just arguing on kind of a social contract playing field and we are making a false equivalency of the morality of each of these independent views. And so from a pastoral biblical worldview, how should Christians advocate against socialism and communism? Not just from an economic theory standpoint, but from a biblical worldview?
Jack Hibbs: Well, it's. We have to back up, number one, what nation, and I'm being sarcastic by asking this. What nation in the history of man has been the most generous and compassionate nation with tangible responses to hunger, slavery, disasters, natural or war? It's the United States, hands down. Nobody comes close. Why is that the case? Because America was founded upon and acted upon a Judeo Christian worldview value which so permeated even our culture that. Jenna, you're too young to know this, but I'm not. I remember people running for office who said, please elect me to be your public servant. Public servant? The government was to service our liberties and freedoms for us. It's we the people. It's the first time in world history where a nation was a nation where the people had the final say. The people voted. It wasn't the divine rights of kings. Our founding fathers gave us the most unique experiments and Franklin said we need to preserve that. I'm concerned about us preserving it when we allow an opposing view that is self centered, atheistic and says whatever you have belongs to all of us collectively. But we know from history that somebody will always step into that argument and they'll seize power like a Mao, like a Marx, like a Lenin, like a Stalin. And they will begin to dictate. That's the way it works. And if the church doesn't understand that private ownership is stewardship, forget the argument of capitalism versus socialism. You can even preempt that by saying God wants me to own things privately and to even prosper in what I own so that I can not only provide for my family, for my community, but also provide for those who are hurting and need help that can only come from a compassionate individual and local culture that understands that we are to love our neighbor. And so again, the church is failing in this social argument because it doesn't understand what it's holding. It's almost like we're like a two year old holding the power of a chainsaw. You would never hand a chainsaw to a two year old. But here's here, you know, we're holding this government that's been handed to us. And I'm wondering, after 250 years, what are we celebrating? Do we even know what we're celebrating? Are we celebrating baseball or just 250 years? Or are we celebrating a, nation that was free and all of that founded upon the fact that liberty and freedom, as Samuel Adams said, was something that came from God himself, not from us. And are we free today? Are we heading in the direction of freedom? Or like NewSong York City, which is a little example, look what's happening under the thinking of Mandani. It's not going well already. But that is just a hint. Unless we engage the culture with our Judeo Christian value. And we must understand that for me, for Jenna, we are going to take our faith into the public square and shine the light and the influence of the gospel and how we talk, what we stand for, how we vote, how we live. And my neighbors, Jenna, I live, I have neighbors on both sides of me that are atheistic and extremely progressive. But you know what, And I say this humbly, gratefully, when something happens at their home or with their kids, they call Lisa and I, we love them. They know who to go to when they're in trouble. That's being a Christian witness. And yet at the same time they know I'm diametrically opposed. Opposed to their worldview. There's their worldview will fail, mine will succeed. Not because it's mine, but it's because it's God's.
Jenna Ellis: Absolutely. And you know, this is where, the founders understood more than just the principles of capitalism or the nuts and bolts that they put into the US Constitution. They understood the underlying worldview and what freedom and liberty actually mean. In a, in the context of a biblical and a truthful worldview. And you know, while we can point to different aspects of the founders personal lives and say, you know, well, maybe they weren't these, you know, perfect sincere Christians, I mean, I always say you can point to aspects of my life and say, you know, I'm not a perfect Christian, of course, and this is why daily sanctification matters. But their overall arguments and the overall understanding of what they put into the Declaration of Independence, which thankfully we did just celebrate in our 250th back on July 4th, was that they understood that truth exists, it's objective, it's discoverable, and that part of that truth is that the God of the Bible created, and he created human beings in his image and endowed us with certain inalienable rights and that all else of civil government flows from that not just premise, but that reality. And we need leaders in Washington and in the States that actually understand that and are willing to advocate for it. And in the church of course, as we're talking about. But it's so hard, Pastor Jack, especially in this, this age of noise where there are so many different options to get our news or to think for the people who, who are chasing the, the clicks and the views and the fame and the money and all of this. It's much easier to not be divisive, that, and just go along with whatever you know, one party platform says or the majority of listeners want instead of taking the position that there is truth, truth and there's falsity, that's just anything either is true or it's not based on the objective standard. And that's always going to be divisive by its own nature. And, and because you will end up offending some category or segment of those that you are teaching or who are listening to you. And if you don't want to lose some of those, those people who just want to hear what they want, want what they prefer in this kind of confirmation bias, then you won't say anything controversial. And that's, that's where unfortunately a lot of pastors are today. And I'm so grateful you are not one of them. You're willing to speak the hard truth regardless of who comes back on Sunday mornings because you're teaching to the people who are willing to listen to the truth. And we have to hopefully incentivize in some way churches to get back to the main thing instead of building their metric based on the capitalistic sort of principles of business enterprises. I mean, that's what a lot of churches, they're a business model anymore instead of a model of being the church and being truth tellers. How do we get back to that?
Pastor Jack says social media has inspired more intolerance rather than courage
Jack Hibbs: Yeah, I just said that last Wednesday night in our services a, week ago, where I'm wondering how many people who attend church in America attend a NewSong Testament church? You know, just because you go to a church doesn't mean it's a NewSong Testament church. It's got to meet the qualifications of what the NewSong Testament lays out for what a Christian church is. But that said is, it's a remarkable moment where, we, we exercise some sort of faith by proclamation, but then we run home to see how many likes we have or how many clicks or comments. And look, if a pastor is involved in that, that, then it's all the more grievous because the, the pastor should divorce himself from the opinions of the world and get his, get his marching orders from the scriptures, from the Holy Spirit. And if somebody says, well, if you don't, if you don't like me, you know, if you don't, acquiesce to my position, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna unfriend you, if that matters to you. You're probably not mature enough to operate in the social media world. So the truth of the matter is, if you have 100 friends on Facebook, this we know for sure, you really do not have 100 friends, because a friend is going to come to you in a time of need and help you out. They're not going to turn on you because you have a different opinion we've created in the social media. I would insert the fear of man as a snare world in which we live in that we are terrified if somebody disagrees with our view. So the answer is, we think, don't share anything that is of controversy. Don't say that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. That's controversial. Don't say that there's a hell. Only talk about a heaven, because that's controversial. Listen, that is the off ramp from truth. You're going to go on this off ramp down a road that is just disastrous. And pastors of all people, pastors, we need to lead people out of the morass and of the fog of deception. And Jenna, I guess I'm a dinosaur because even though I've got, you know, millions of followers, so to speak, on social media, I cannot let that influence me. And what I say, I've got one person to make sure that there's a friendship relationship that I have, and I have to maintain that. And that is the Lord Jesus Christ, by the Holy Spirit, in obedience to the word of God.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. And that's all that matters. And. Absolutely. And it's fascinating to me that in this age of noise, instead of creating more courage, because more people have the opportunity to create a platform that is unmoored by the gatekeeping of the, you know, mainstream media or kind of the big bureaucracy and all this, that instead of inspiring courage, it actually has, has inspired more of this kind of mob mentality, social proof, cohesion. And of course, you know, we, we kind of naturally devolve to, to the worst possible, ah, lowest common denominator. But I wish that this were inspiring more courage and I hope that, for those listening to this program, you will be inspired to continue to speak out in truth, regardless of your haters or regardless of, you know, the social media account or, or whatever. I mean, none of us who have a following, hopefully, who are speaking truth, got into this because that was ultimately the goal. I mean, I certainly didn't, when I, I prayed years ago for the Lord to expand, my ministry and allow me an opportunity to speak, truth in the realm of, you know, law and politics and from a biblical worldview. And he has more than answered that prayer beyond, you know, my wildest imagination. I've recognized that, you know, this platform, whatever it is that I have ultimately belongs to him and it is a stewardship, as you mentioned, Pastor Jack. And we need to go back to recognizing that instead of being focused on our own brand or, you know, oh, people disagree with me or they don't understand why I made certain decisions or, you know, or whatever, or they just don't like me because of, you know, one position I've taken or because I've supported Trump or not supported him on other issues. I mean, people are so fickle and the truth and the principles must remain.
Jenna Ellis: Christians need to make decisions about authority in life
And so just in the last, two minutes or so I have with you, as we are coming up on, on the anniversary of, you know, remembering Charlie, how should Christians live in trying to harness that courage and pray for courage to stand up and speak truth in a society that in all forms has always been hostile to truth?
Jack Hibbs: Yeah. I'm going to answer that in two ways. Number one, first of all, I thank God that so much of what Charlie said, his, gatherings on college campuses is archived and there available. We use YouTube to teach our Grandchildren by using Charlie's material. It's available. That's wonderful. But the other thing is this, which is the most important thing, is that, for us, we've got to make the determination what will be the authority of my life, what is going to shape my life, what am I going to allow today to be the influence over my life? And Jenna, I'm a big fan of this. I used to discipline myself in the area before I was a Christian. Christian. I would discipline myself to make sure that I was the best at obtaining my fleshly appetites. I worked hard at that. I worked hard at making sure I could sin very effectively. When I became a Christian, I took that passion. God sanctified it. A great word that you used a moment ago. And I disciplined my life to follow Jesus. I did not do what I wanted to do. I wanted to do what he has written down to do. That said, we need to decide now, no matter what direction the barometer or the weather vane is pointing, no matter what's trending, the authority of my life will be a daily consumption first of the word of God before I encounter anything else. I will not. I do not get up and check my text or my emails or social media. I first go to the word of God, and only then am I qualified to deal with the world around me. So a biblical diet first. And I think if we begin to do that, much of our spiritual health will begin to improve.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. Amen. And that's really as simple as it is, and as difficult as as it is to daily be in the Word and be consuming the truth so that then our mind is daily renewed, by the truth and the knowledge of God. So that the way that which we, approach life, we approach topics, we approach, our advocacy. All of these things are always influenced by truth. So, Pastor Jack, I so appreciate you coming on, so often. We always love, when I get to speak with you and thank you so much for your passion and your courage for the truth. And, that is all the time that we have today on Jenna Ellis in the morning. As always, you can reach me and my team. Jennaafr.net. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com afr.
Jenna welcomes Gerard Filitti to discuss Anthony Fauci pleading the 5th multiple times. Later Jenna was joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs to discuss the current state of the church and the cultural landscape as we approach the anniversary of the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk.
(00:00) Jenna Ellis: When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound she chooses life
(01:01) Dr. Anthony Fauci invoked Fifth Amendment during Senate hearing yesterday
(08:56) Is it possible that this could potentially, um, open up Trump himself to liability
(12:31) One year since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, where do we stand spiritually today
(22:10) After Charlie was murdered, there was a renewed recognition of our own mortality
(31:29) Preborn Network offers free ultrasounds to women facing unplanned pregnancies
(33:10) Jenna New York: How should Christians advocate against socialism and communism
(42:43) Pastor Jack says social media has inspired more intolerance rather than courage
(47:26) Jenna Ellis: Christians need to make decisions about authority in life
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