Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God, not government
: Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God, our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.
: This is Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
The conflict in Iran continues with a lot of opinions on both sides
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Wednesday, March 11, and the conflict in Iran continues with, a lot of opinions on both the right and the left. But I want to focus kind of on the opinions on the right because there is, a huge diversity among people who think that this conflict was absolutely necessary. In fact, it was predictable. And, this is something that we should have been talking about since day one of the Trump's second administration. And if you go back and you listen to everything that he said, then, you know, of course, this, type of invasion and strategic, strikes were necessary and, you know, fully content to follow the president. And then there are people for who, for a host of reasons, kind of fall somewhere along the spectrum, you know, for any number of reasons, kind of in the middle. And then there's sort of, the, the far opposition perspective, even so far as to say, well, you know, this is just a distraction from all of the Epstein files that, were released. And, you know, that's the only reason for this conflict because, you know, if you actually look at what's going on with, the Epstein files and the lack of prosecutions, this is the only way that we could get the media to not, to not focus on those things. So, in terms of the political fallout, you know, kind of. How do we analyze this, truthfully? Well, let's welcome in one of my favorite people to rant with, and to listen to his rants, our good friend Steve Dase, who is, of course a host over at the Blaze. Steve, where do you fall along the, line of whether or not this conflict should be supported?
Steve Deace: I think as a broad stroke, if there's any arena where President Trump has earned trust, it is in foreign policy. I mean, he has been the most, successful executor of foreign policy in the post Cold War world that we have had. And I'm not even sure how that's even a debatable point. I mean, just as a few things that, evidence is to back up that claim, the Abrahamic Accords, we have over 2,000 Jews living and working full time, voluntarily in the nation of Saudi Arabia. That would have been unthinkable a decade ago. I mean, look at last year, Jena, when Iran launched countermeasures after Operation Midnight Hammer. You saw Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, all launch their countermeasures to Iran, in favor of Israel. So he's already orchestrated, just unquestionable success, compared to what we have seen from prior administrations. And you know, last year at this time there was a lot, or last summer there, was a lot of angst, ah, heading into Operation Midnight Hammer. And I kind of viewed it, you know, I'm a little older now, unfortunately, so as a little kid I remember Grenada and for Reagan, that was the proof of concept coming out of the Vietnam era that the American military could project strength again, that it, that we had not just been totally emasculated, which is what we felt coming out of the 1970s. And I think last year with Operation Midnight Hammer, the President showed that it was possible for the American military to, issue a devastating consequence to an enemy without getting bogged down in regime change. And I think now what the President is trying to prove, is that it is possible to at least incur or instigate a regime change from the m. US Military without getting bogged down in a quagmire. And that proof of concept has not been proven yet. And so I think much of the debate, notice I didn't say all, but much of the debate on our side, is fine and I think is worthy until that concept is proven. but I think overall it should be done under a banner of trust. We can, that this president has earned our trust in this arena. I wouldn't do that in every arena, but in this arena, into the foreign policy arena, I have zero, qualms about trusting him whatsoever. And I also think that, we have such huge short attention spans now. Okay, 6m months from now, if the average American doesn't view this economy more affordable, it won't matter. Jenna, if we manage to completely eliminate the entire Iranian high command and put a western friendly government in there without one single American boot on the ground, we're going to get annihilated in these midterms. On the other hand, if the economy is considered way more affordable six months from now than it currently is, it won't matter how much angst there was and how many Terri Priests we created and everything else that we're all angsty about right now. We're going to win. Right. And that's just the attention span. I mean look at the, look at the cable networks. They've largely moved on from wall to wall coverage. They actually did several days ago.
: Right.
Steve Deace: And so that's just also the reality, for better or for worse, of the, of the culture we live in today.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah. You know, really well said.
Seminair: Trump has shown a track record of strategic operations
And I appreciate you bringing up operation Midnight Hammer because you know, when that happened, and I think that was June of last year and when there was the strategic targeting of the Iranian nuclear facilities and that was kind of, you know, dubbed the 12 Day War. it's so funny how everybody in media loves to characterize these strategic strikes immediately as oh, we're in a war. And then you know, the Democrats of course claim it's unconstitutional just for the media purposes. And you know, everybody literally gets up in arms and all of that. And yet, ah, Trump has shown a track record of kind of these strategic operations. He's been very opposed to engaging the US in long term conflicts. this is part of the reason that he wanted to come into office and end the war in Ukraine, saying that that had gone on for far too long. US had participated by way of giving too much money. so I think, you know, for, for a lot of his track record rationale, we can reasonably say, okay, let's wait and see. I mean this hasn't even been a month and there has been a lot of, a, lot of success there. But I think that you're right overall in how to process this, in light of the midterms because, this is really where everybody should focus in 2026 and heading into November, you know, whether it's focusing on Iran, which I agree with you, I don't think is going to be like the biggest voting issue by far, in November. The, the actual bigger focus really should be on passing the Save act. And I'm actually surprised, but not surprised that the GOP isn't focused more on that and pushing the media to focus more on the Save act because that's really ultimately what's going to make or break the midterms, for us, I think.
Steve Deace: Well, I think you're exactly correct. And it goes back to the previous point where listen, what happens on X matters and is real, but it's often also amplified and contrived at the same time. Right. and here's what I mean by that. We wouldn't win the last election without Elon Musk. Elon Musk and what he did with X, creating the largest free speech platform on planet Earth in, the history of planet Earth. I mean, essentially I've always, you know, Trump to me is a Luther, Martin Luther like character. A lot of his own, very similar, characteristics, and lack of refinements, I guess we'll say. and to me, Musk is the Gutenberg, the man who gave the printing press. Right. At the same time, Luther emerged in order to get his message out to the masses. And Musk did that with, X. And so X definitely proved that what happens there is real because it was a huge part of how we won this last election. But it's real at a high meta level. it doesn't.
: It still.
Steve Deace: You barely have. 20% of Americans have an active X account. They're still not really active in the discourse there. It's those of us who form discourse for a living and discuss discourse for a living. it's real to us. And so we often know. And that's where a lot of opinions and narratives get formed and battled out. But we often overly amplify things there as if it is some overwhelming, ratio of people, you know, and you and I are probably, you know, old enough now to remember that, you know, 10, 15 years ago, the Ron Paul revolution, you know, young people. And we had to, this is, we had to cater to the young people. All right? They just want free pot and gay marriage and Sodom and Gomorrah and low taxes. Right? This would they. They were dominating cpac, you remember these days, I'm sure.
: Right.
Steve Deace: Okay. Sadly, they were going to remake everything, okay? And we had to absolutely play to this or we were dead as a party. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, now, you know, 10 years later, Republicans are more opposed to gay marriage now, according to polling, than they have been since before Oberge fell.
: All right?
Steve Deace: And we do have a real anti Semitism problem on the right. It's being stoked by a couple of very high profile podcasters. One of them who's just a grift queen and always has been, but so she's not really a danger. The other one though is, and that's Tucker, because he is a serious thinker and has done some serious work and has serious credentials that have to be acknowledged and wrestled with. All right? But Ron Paul was a serious figure too, and he didn't remake the Republican Party. And I think that we're somewhat overblowing the, real problem with anti semitism that we have on the right because we see so much of it. Just as we saw this in the old Reddit forums and message boards of yesteryear, we see so much of it now on X. Okay, so there's a real cadre and cache of this, but it really hasn't filtered down to the water table a lot of, Republican voters yet, and it may never for that matter, depending on what happens at the meta level battle that some of us are engaged in now. But what clearly has filtered down into the water table is the Save America Act. And I'm just going to tell you right now, this Iran war, unless we're dead wrong and Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio and Donald Trump get body snatched into Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, okay? And you know, that and that era of people and they do get bogged down into a quag, you know, a quagmire in Tehran, which I cannot envision happening.
: Okay?
Steve Deace: But if, but barring that happening, the issue that has the chance, that's not going to divide our base. The Save America act could euthanize our base. People are already, if you look at special midterm election, I mean our energy level is already down all over the country, which is typical. Traditionally president after presidents parties, after winning that presidential election, typically lose the next midterm. In fact, going back to 19, going back the last 40 years or 45 years, the only time a president won the midterm after he got elected was George W. Bush coming off of 9 11, Reagan lost third House seats. Bill Clinton, George W. Bush lost the, generic congressional ballot by 8 points nationwide. In 1990, Bill Clinton had the Contract with America. Barack Obama got destroyed in not one, but two midterm elections. George W. Bush then turned around and got annihilated in 2006, we lost about 40 House seats. In 2018. So this is pretty traditional. We were already dealing an energy problem on our side. But then turn around and take what is probably. I mean, I'm out on the campaign stump all over the state of Iowa for my governor campaign. Governor candidate Adam Steen. I get asked about the Save act and about voter fraud and election integrity at every single stop here in Iowa and do not pass that and you will euthanize our base. However bad you think these midterms will be, you're looking at obliteration nationwide. We're already losing normie voters because of the affordability issue, and they're not. And they're the ones that aren't happy about the Iran war more than anybody now, they are the normie voter. So if the economy is doing better six months from now, we'll get them back. Right, but you're demoralizing our base. I mean, people just start asking, what is the reason I'm even voting Republican if they cannot even do this? Okay? And I think that that has to become law. It has to be, they have to put it on the President's desk. And we all know it's going to get sued 10 minutes after they try to do it. But if they can't manage this as a political party then, and hey, we're not going to see like 30% of Republicans stay home. That's not realistic. You're going to see five or ten. And combined with the normie vote loss we're looking at now, you're talking about, literally, you're not just talking about losing everywhere you could possibly lose, but maybe a few places you didn't think you could lose.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, and this is one of those things, Steve, I agree with you, that is so basic and so fundamental to to preserving and protecting our American way of life.
It seems so, uh, incredible that Republicans wouldn't pass this SAVE act
It seems so, incredible that Republicans wouldn't pass this. And yet when you look at the
Steve Deace: Senate, which is only confirming everything that I just said, your reaction. I just said only confirmed what I just said.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, exactly. And so then that, and I'm one of those people that think, okay, if they can't even pass the SAVE act, then what good is it to even vote Republican? Of course, the rejoinder to that is, well, what choice do you have? You know, where else would you go? Because, you know, you don't want the Democrats to leave. But it seems like we've been in that perpetual cycle for so long that a lot of people are getting tired of it. And this is why there's a call, like they're, you know, cyclically that, that occurs to reform and reshape the Republican Party. Because you have people like Lindsey Graham, you know, going out on Fox News almost gleeful about war and begging to send America's children over. I mean, it's disgusting, frankly. And yet South Carolina, yeah, South Carolina keeps electing him. You know, and that, that is a prime example of how we keep repeating the cycles that don't work. But at least from what I've heard on Capitol Hill, John Thune, as the Majority leader in the Senate, just doesn't have the votes. Why not?
Steve Deace: Well, that's the thing. How who aren't the votes who aren't they? Let's get them out in the open. And I think, you know, I said earlier, the foreign policy arena is one place where I think that Trump has earned about the most Trump you can. Most Trump, I'm sorry, the most trust you can give a human politician because of his unprecedented success here. But now we're into an arena where I don't think he should shrug them to that extent.
Ken Paxton forced President Trump's hand on SAVE Act this week
: All right.
Steve Deace: And I think, frankly, Ken Paxton forced his hand this week. I think Ken Paxton pulled off the most deft, cunning political maneuver maybe I've ever seen, a conservative attempt in an, in a high profile election. And all the signs were pointing to Trump endorsing John Cornyn after Paxton lost to the primary. In the primary, him was it a point and a half and they're headed to a runoff. And all the signs were there. And Paxton came out and said, listen, I will happily step aside provided you pass the SAVE Act. It's the most important piece of legislation for our base this year. You guys do that and I'll step aside. I mean, he essentially made the issue center stage on over his ambitions in campaign. and I think he's forced the President's hand. The President is now saying and doing the things that he should have been doing six months ago with this legislation. He should have said from the very beginning, I'm not signing anything until you put this on my desk. Absolutely nothing. He's saying it now. He's saying now, now. And I think Paxton has frankly forced his hand because one of the reasons we're in this position with a lot of these listless Republicans is that Trump has frankly endorsed a bunch of them and protected them in primaries from people like us.
: Why?
Steve Deace: I don't know. It's on a list of questions I have for Jesus. Get there. Okay, you got to tell me, you know, Lord, I have got to know. How is it that Trump endorsed a bunch of people that he knew all along hated him in these primaries? What was the master plan here? I didn't see. I can't come up with a 4D chess move to explain 10 years of largely terrible endorsements for every. For every DeSantis that Trump gave us. Because we wouldn't have had him without Trump. For every DeSantis he gave us, he's given us about 30 terrible endorsements. That's a terrible ratio. And so now he's kind of cornered by a lot of his very bad endorsements. So now he's applying the kind of external pressure on them and see that's what's left. Now, this issue has seeped down into the water table of our base, okay? And now, you know, there's not just normies in the, in the, that are non partisan voters, there's normies in both political party voters, too. You'd still grab a good cadre of Democrat voters in a state like Mississippi, where AFR is located, and a bunch of them still would tell you that they think that trans and kids is the worst idea they've ever heard in their life. And you're like, do you know what political party you're in? And they kind of don't. You know, there's normies everywhere, right? Well, there's normies on our side, too. And that's why a lot of times when Trump endorses that primary is over right away, because that's kind of the bat signal to the normie voters of where to go. The ones that aren't totally focused and engaged on this full time. Well, now on this issue, they are, right? And so they're a dog with a bone.
: Now.
Steve Deace: This is like the only piece of legislation they know anything about. If they don't pass this, they've euthanized their base. So I don't know how it will happen. I still think they'll find a way to get it done. And for this reason, because of, because it's the same reason that m. The only time that McConnell ever fought Democrats was in 2016 when Antonin Scalia died. And he knew he could not let Barack Obama appoint Scalia's successor, so he fought him on Merrick Garland. And that ended up being the number two issue in the exit polls that year. Judicial nominees. And that one Trump that election with that issue. If you look at the exit polling and McConnell knew he had to do it because if they don't fight Obama on judicial nominees, then what point does the AFR listener have to keep voting Republican, despite all the other times they keep getting betrayed for doing it. And that's why I think they're going to end up doing it here, too. It won't be pretty, but I think in the end, the ability to keep the, you know, the lesser of tweebles paradigm going will outrank their own principles and they'll get it done. But that's, that's, that's still an open question and it's being debated right now.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, well, we got to take a break here, but Steve Dace, really appreciate it and I couldn't agree more. And I think that, Ken Paxton has forced President Trump's hand on this. And I hope that that continues. and this continues to be the issue, at least until it's passed heading into November. But one other thing, I really hope that this is a wake up call to the base who maybe isn't as online and focused on, you know, every little thing is maybe you and I are, that the Trump endorsements have not been great over the last 10 years and people really should question that and second guess and not be like, here in my home state of Florida, say, oh, well, Byron Donalds gets the Trump endorsement, so he must be, you know, the right pick for Florida. I totally disagree with that and I've said that very publicly for a lot of reasons that we'll still talk about. But, you know, we need to be circumspect and always conservative and voting our values. We'll be right back with more.
Pastor Gino Geraci discusses conflict in Iran with Jenna Ellis
: welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And you know, although we have been talking about how important the SAVE act is, we do still need to be talking about this conflict in Iran. And there's a great piece from All Israel News, our good friend Joel Rosenberg's outlet, he's the editor in chief there. And the headline reads, experts warn Iran's new leader is quote unquote, obsessed with end times and believes himself to be prophesied figure paving the way for the Mahdi. So, what does this mean exactly and how, does this perhaps, factor in to how Christians need to view the conflict in Iran and overall our view of eschatology? Well, let's welcome in Pastor Gino Geraci. He is the pastor emeritus of Calvary Chapel South Denver and a former FBI chaplain. And, has been for a long time, one of my pastors, when I lived in Colorado and is still a very dear friend. And Gino, I appreciate you joining this morning and you know, what do you make of this headline overall with this new supreme leader?
Gino Geraci: Well, I think that the article gets it exactly right, that this new Supreme Leader is obsessed with, the end times and sees himself as a kind of prophetic fulfillment. I think in order to put this in a kind of a context that our audience will understand, Iran is a constitutional theocracy and most people don't really understand what that means. Well, what it means is that their whole government is centered around a theological, mission and that is to bring about the Mahdi, just like Christians believe that Jesus is going to return, Shia Muslims believe that the Mahdi, the rightly guided person, is going to come back. And so their leadership, their clerical leadership, believes that it is incumbent upon them to act and behave in such a way that they can fulfill that mission. And I think that the article gets
Gino Geraci: it exactly right that most of west, the Western world has misunderstood Iran's identity and mission as a state.
Jenna Ellis: And you know, this is really fascinating because because you're right, I mean that kind of framework, is exactly why Americans need to resist Sharia law in the United States. They need to resist Muslim and Islamic influence in the United States because this isn't just a different legal system. It's it's, which of course is then incompatible with the US Constitution, but it's a religious based legal system. And this is important in the wider context as well of regime change that President Trump, and the White House have largely been pushing for. And so President Trump came out and said that he's not particularly pleased with the selection of this new Supreme Leader. But why does this ultimately matter not only politically but also to how Christians understand this conflict that has been going on, I mean for 47 years as everyone's been talking about. But you know, the conflict that's been going on a lot further back than that between Islam and, and Christians and basically truth versus a false God.
Gino Geraci: You know, again to frame this in a way that hopefully everybody can understand. What they get right with the, what the Islamists get right is it is an ideological divide. It is a deep divide. What they believe about what's real and what's true and what's good in the future is very different from our view. so, so there's a spiritual component obviously. So the spiritual component is that there is an ideological division. But the other, the other thing is that well if you understand their theology and what they're trying to accomplish, there's several things that Christians can understand, that they believe, but that's very different from what we believe. So the way that I would think about it is in their worldview, their whole point is to bring about the Mahdi, this particular new, Khomeini Jr. They believe that he might be the prophetic fulfillment of three individuals who are going to precede the coming of the Mahdi. And that's why this is such an important issue. so is there a spiritual component? Yes. Is there an ideological component? Yes. Can you negotiate with them like other normal states? The answer is no. And this president, as our Southern Friends say, bless his heart. kind of understands that, but perhaps doesn't. I don't know if someone has clearly laid out what these people believe, why they believe it, and why it matters. So
Gino Geraci: just, like we as Christians believe that Jesus is going to return, and that, ah, but the way that we get Jesus, we don't get to manipulate Jesus into returning. But in Islamic, especially in Shia belief, they can do things to hasten the coming of the Mahdi. And so, the theological differences is the identity of the Savior. In Shia, ah, he's a human imam descended from Muhammad. We believe that Jesus is the divine savior. And so, in their way of thinking, Jesus Isa, supports the Mahdi and will precede the coming of the Mahdi. And so the structural pattern is surprisingly similar. So imagine we as Christians and they as Muslims. They believe in the corruption of the world, the rise of deceptive rulers, supernatural signs, the. The arrival of a divinely guided leader, but. And then the establishment of a just kingdom and a final judgment. So in their clerical way of thinking, they're trying to bring that about. But the way that you bring that about is to sow chaos.
Jenna Ellis: And this is such an important understanding for especially how the diplomacy may not have gone the way that the administration and President Trump wanted, because. Right. And I agree with you that likely, this fuller context, isn't as deeply understood as perhaps it should have been or should be, in the inner circles of the White House. Because, you know, President Trump tends to, approach some of these other foreign leaders as if they have the same goals for their people and their country as he does for our people in our country, saying, you know, you want to be prosperous, you want to give people freedom, you want to, you know, be the best and the most powerful, and, you know, all of these other things that, that may characterize more of a constitutional, republican, capitalist society. But what we need to understand about the motivations of this type of religion and then this sort of, how they, how these beliefs actually shape geopolitical decisions is that not everyone comes from the same, base worldview, of course, and therefore they don't have the same base motivations or goals. And so as we're looking at this new regime, how do you think that this factors into shaping, the geopolitical decisions? Because it was so fascinating, Gino, that there was an article from Huffington Post that was alleging, I think, over exaggerating, but alleging that some of our own US Military commanders were suggesting to troops that the conflict in Iran was hastening the, was hastening Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ. And as you were talking, you were reminding me of that article. And I'm going, maybe Huffington Post has it totally wrong. And they're just assuming that Christianity is basically, like, Islamic.
Steve Deace: And that's.
Gino Geraci: That's exactly right.
Gina Geraci: This is a political conundrum for the White House
So if we, again, if we ask and answer kind of a different question, and that is, well, how is the belief, do Christians really believe in an Armageddon? Will there be a global conflagration? And will this hasten that global conflagration?
Steve Deace: You'll remember.
Gino Geraci: Well, maybe it's hard to remember, but over, you know, on 9 11, George Bush said, we are not at war with Islam. and I think he was mistaken in this sense. There is an ideological divide. There is an ideological war with, Shia Islam, which represents 15% of the total Muslim population. Is it safe to say that all Muslims are trying to hasten and bring about the Mahdi? The answer is no. just like Tucker Carlsen has been floating the idea that Christians are committed to blowing up, the mosque and the holy site on the Temple Mount in order to hasten the building of the Third Temple and then bringing about, the return of Jesus. But it's that kind of view that. Imagine if it's a deeply held view, and that's really your real view, that you might be capable of doing weird and wicked things to burn because you think you're bringing about the hastening of the coming of Jesus. And so that, to me, is the interesting insight that you just brought up. are Christians trying to hasten the coming of Jesus? Well, we hasten the coming of Jesus by praying and living a godly life and by reminding ourselves that Jesus has promised to return. He. He's. But he's going to return on his terms, not on our terms. They believe that they, the hardline Mahdis, believe that they can hasten the return by initiating global conflict and sustaining that global conflict. That's the difference.
Jenna Ellis: M. And, and as. As they have that belief, and obviously that is completely different than what, Christianity teaches. How do you think that that should influence the White House at least, you know, not necessarily on, you know, every foreign policy, geopolitical decision, but at least, inform them in how they approach some aspects of diplomacy.
Gino Geraci: I think the way that I would, if I had the president's ear, here's what I would say to the President. I would say, I know that you think that their belief is nonsense, but they believe it. Now, the way that I would talk to the President is I think that the President really sees the world rather simply. in this sense, is this good for America or is this not good for America? And then he's trying to parse and think about how do I go from here? Is this good for us or is this bad for us? And then I would say in their worldview, in their ideology, in their way of thinking, they're thinking, is this good not for our country as a state, that's charged with the care and the concern of its people, but their ideological goal is to generate sufficient mischief in order to bring about a global conflagration. And that's where I think the president would say these people are nuts and they can't be reasoned with. And, so this really is a dilemma. This is a true problem. This has got to be a political conundrum for the White House.
Jenna Ellis: Well, we're going to take a break here, but Gina Geraci, former pastor of Calvary Chapel South Denver, is my special guest this morning and he's going to hold on with us, to come back and finish out the show because there's so much more to talk about on this issue. And this is why I love Christian radio programs and Christian based media, because these are the things that, you know, Fox News and Newsmax and all that aren't going to cover. And this is such a critical issue, and a critical aspect of everything that's going on in the Middle east and something that, we really need to pay attention to and understand more thoroughly. So we will be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis talks with Gino Geraci about Islam and Christianity
: welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with Gino Geraci, who's former pastor of Calvary Chapel South Denver and also a former FBI chaplain. And Gino, you and I were talking before the break about, the perspective, the religious perspective of Islam and how this plays into, the geopolitical conflict and what America needs to understand about, what the Quran teaches and how, this differs, of course, from the Bible. And And so while it's important to understand this as it relates to current events, and that's incredibly important, it's also a broader and I think more fundamental, issue that then is raised that this is why Christians need to always know first and foremost what the Bible teaches so that we can rightly divide truth from error. When we see headlines like this and we know what Christianity teaches and we can contrast that with what, people are suggesting it teaches falsely or from what Islam teaches. And so, you know, a lot of. Unfortunately, a lot of churches now in America kind of don't want to talk about eschatology. They don't want to talk about, how you rightly frame it, which is the end of all things, as the definition of eschatology. And for listeners, you know, when I use that phrase, I borrowed it from Pastor Gino and his many teachings, that I've sat under over the years. And, you know, this is a topic that you have not shied away from in your entire, pastoral ministry. And it's so important for Christians to be well versed in what the Bible actually teaches.
Gino: Iran's legitimacy comes from the fact that their supreme leader is
So, I know we only have about, 12 minutes left, but what are the guardrails and the basics that pastors should give believers so they stay biblically grounded when discussing eschatology and prophecy?
Gino Geraci: Well, you know, I think that the first guardrail is to teach what the Bible teaches, to say what the Bible says, and to remind everyone that the text can never mean what the text never said. so do we as Christians believe that Jesus is going to come back? Yes. do we as Christians believe that as Christians living in a fallen world, we. That we have a role to play in the political process? The answer is yes. And, Jenna, just very quickly, I wanted to just point out how Mahdi eschatology affects Iranian ideology. Okay. so imagine if you're Iranian, what you've talked about, your constitutional lawyer. Political legitimacy, revolutionary identity, foreign enemies, military culture, strategic risk tolerance, and their way of thinking. Their legitimacy comes from the fact that their supreme leader governs as a representative of the Hidden Imam. Now imagine if our. If our president believes that he governs as a representative of Jesus Christ. And you go, no, he governs in his legitimate role in the constitutional role that's been assigned to him by the Constitution in Iranian way of thinking. Remember, they're a theocratic constitution. It's written into their constitution. Like the article indicates that he is a representative of the Hidden Imam and he must act according to what Shia. Ah, Islam dictates and the revolutionary identity. Iran sees itself as preparing the world for the Mahdi. And then their foreign enemies, Israel and the United States, are framed in all apocalyptic terms. And in their military culture, it's martyrdom and sacrifice. So martyrdom and sacrifice are valorized. And so guess what? The more people who die, the more glorious it is. And then you think about the strategic risk tolerance. Some leaders accept instability as a part of the divine history. So this is an area that most analysts aren't really recognizing that, you know, how much instability can you tolerate? And from their way of thinking, they can risk a great deal of instability because it furthers their mission. So I just wanted to make sure everybody understood that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, no, and I appreciate that. And especially the correct characterization of this being, of Iran being a theocratic, system of government, because often, not Christians, but you know, those who oppose Christians influence in our civil government, falsely accuse our US Constitutional system as also being theocratic. And that's why they falsely suggest there has to be this high wall of separation of church and state and that Christians can't influence otherwise. We're suggesting that because we're a Christian nation that equals the theocracy. And that is false. It's suggesting that our foundation of civil government derives our legitimacy from God our Creator, that there are certain fundamental truths that are discoverable and that are non negotiable and that we have to live in accordance with not only the the universe around us and the, the reality to which we're presented, as C.S. lewis says, but also the morality that is derived from the God of the Bible and that then dictates what is legitimate for the civil government to do or not. But our pastors and our clergy and our ecclesia are not in authority roles over the government, similar to a theocracy. So that's very different. And Islam also teaches that the Mahdi and Jesus return together, but their roles differ from the biblical account. And so this is also a major theological difference. And this is yet another example, Gino, of how Christianity and Islam, even when it comes to just how civil government operates, is just fundamentally incompatible and very different. We do not serve the same God.
Gino Geraci: Exactly. And so if people go, are we at war with Islam? And I think that the right way to answer that is there is a deep ideological divide between the Shia version of Islamism, that seeks to literally disrupt the global order. And so you're exactly right. In their way of thinking, in Shia's way of thinking, Jesus supports the Mahdi, okay? In Christianity, Jesus is the ruler. And so they have, in their way of thinking, in Shia, the Mahdi is already alive. in Christianity, Jesus is ascended into heaven. He's not hidden on the earth, but will return according to his specific promise. And so, in their way of thinking, in Shia, the human Imam is a direct descendant of Muhammad. In our way of thinking, Jesus is the son of God, the son of David. And so there, there's profound differences. But one of the ways that, again, I want to just really impress upon people is that Iran's behavior isn't purely theological, Jenna. It's not even purely pragmatic. So it's a bl of this religious eschatology, this revolutionary ideology, and this conventional geopolitical strategy. So if we're thinking, well, they don't really have a view. No, they really do. That they really have thought long and hard about these things and are acting out their deeply held beliefs.
Jenna Ellis: And, you know, I wish we could say the same about every Christian that, you know, they're acting out their deeply held religious beliefs. Right. I mean, and that should be. Actually, I hope that, people would. Would say of. Of us, what we're now saying about, about the. The Muslims that, you know, we should have such a knowledge of what the Bible teaches and of, what Jesus commands for our lives that we cannot help but follow that. And so as we're looking at this contrast, where should Christians, or how should Christians process this in contrasting, you know, what Islam teaches, but be solid in saying, well, no, this is what the Bible teaches about the end times.
Gino Geraci: You know, there's a couple of really good resources you alluded to. One, obviously, Joel Rosenberg is your friend and my friend, and you. I got to hear the interview that you did with Joel. And you know, it's all. Israel News is just such a wonderful source of information to help think about what's happening in real time. So that's a very, very good resource. The other thing, you know, obviously, you know that I'm on the board of [email protected] [email protected] we've got several articles including, you know, what is Shia Islam? What do they really believe? you know, who. What is the 12th Imam and eschatology. So we've posted several [email protected] about, these issues. Like, you know, who is Al Masiyah Ad Dajjal in Islamic eschatology? This is their Antichrist figure. who is, you know, what are Sunni Muslims? What are Shia Muslims? what do they believe? How does Islam differ from, historical biblical Christianity? who's the false prophet in end times? What will the end times look like from a biblical standpoint? So we've literally got dozens and dozens and dozens of articles on this subject.
Jenna Ellis: And that's so important because I think, you know, for some who, maybe have. Have ignored or just, you know, kind of said, okay, well, eschatology Isn't that important? Because, you know, even Christians differ and in some of their views.
Gotquestions. org is a great resource for biblical questions
And you know, I'm going to focus on some other things. It can be daunting to to ask and answer the question, you know, where do I even begin, to learn about some of these things. Especially because, you know, the book of Revelation is is itself ah, very difficult to get through. And it's very difficult without a guide, and without an understanding. And so you know, some of these things that got questions.org you know, I read that site as well and I mean, and it's great because it gives a summary basically. And it's way better by the way for listeners than chat GPT and you know, where you never know who actually is inputting this. You don't want to just Google search or AI generate your response to biblical questions. You want to know that the source that you are getting an answer from is biblically sound. And so, gotquestions.org is great.
Jenna, where would you encourage Christians to rightly divide truth from error
And just in the last like two minutes then where would you encourage Christians to rightly divide truth from error when we're talking about the end times?
Gino Geraci: Well again that, that very subject of discernment and how to rightly divide. There's so many great resources that, that are available like how to think biblically and truth from error. I am thinking of Rob Bowman's book on dividing the truth. Norm Geisler has written on this subject extensively and you know, not to be shamelessly self promoting but we've got again articles on discernment and there, there are so many great resources that Jenna, to your point, there's so much out there. Why should we go to inferior resources when there are great resources, resources available. but as you know, it's a lifelong pursuit, pursuit to try to think biblically. so there's a lot of discernment ministries that are out there that provide tools. I'm thinking of Charlie, Kirk's friend, you know, his name.
Jenna Ellis: gosh, Frank Turek.
Gino Geraci: yes, Frank Turek, yes. And you know, Frank Turek has written extensively on this subject. And so, you know, for people I know we're living in an age where a lot of people aren't reading but they like to get brief but biblical answers. and so all of those. Frank Turek is a great resource as well.
Jenna Ellis: Gino, you are a great resource as well. And I so appreciate you taking the time this morning to delve into this, these topics. And this is why Christians do need to be daily in the Word. Be studying these things so that we can rightly divide truth from error and look at the headlines from a biblical worldview perspective. Reach me and my team. Jenna F R.net M.
Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God, not government
: Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God, our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.
: This is Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
The conflict in Iran continues with a lot of opinions on both sides
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Wednesday, March 11, and the conflict in Iran continues with, a lot of opinions on both the right and the left. But I want to focus kind of on the opinions on the right because there is, a huge diversity among people who think that this conflict was absolutely necessary. In fact, it was predictable. And, this is something that we should have been talking about since day one of the Trump's second administration. And if you go back and you listen to everything that he said, then, you know, of course, this, type of invasion and strategic, strikes were necessary and, you know, fully content to follow the president. And then there are people for who, for a host of reasons, kind of fall somewhere along the spectrum, you know, for any number of reasons, kind of in the middle. And then there's sort of, the, the far opposition perspective, even so far as to say, well, you know, this is just a distraction from all of the Epstein files that, were released. And, you know, that's the only reason for this conflict because, you know, if you actually look at what's going on with, the Epstein files and the lack of prosecutions, this is the only way that we could get the media to not, to not focus on those things. So, in terms of the political fallout, you know, kind of. How do we analyze this, truthfully? Well, let's welcome in one of my favorite people to rant with, and to listen to his rants, our good friend Steve Dase, who is, of course a host over at the Blaze. Steve, where do you fall along the, line of whether or not this conflict should be supported?
Steve Deace: I think as a broad stroke, if there's any arena where President Trump has earned trust, it is in foreign policy. I mean, he has been the most, successful executor of foreign policy in the post Cold War world that we have had. And I'm not even sure how that's even a debatable point. I mean, just as a few things that, evidence is to back up that claim, the Abrahamic Accords, we have over 2,000 Jews living and working full time, voluntarily in the nation of Saudi Arabia. That would have been unthinkable a decade ago. I mean, look at last year, Jena, when Iran launched countermeasures after Operation Midnight Hammer. You saw Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, all launch their countermeasures to Iran, in favor of Israel. So he's already orchestrated, just unquestionable success, compared to what we have seen from prior administrations. And you know, last year at this time there was a lot, or last summer there, was a lot of angst, ah, heading into Operation Midnight Hammer. And I kind of viewed it, you know, I'm a little older now, unfortunately, so as a little kid I remember Grenada and for Reagan, that was the proof of concept coming out of the Vietnam era that the American military could project strength again, that it, that we had not just been totally emasculated, which is what we felt coming out of the 1970s. And I think last year with Operation Midnight Hammer, the President showed that it was possible for the American military to, issue a devastating consequence to an enemy without getting bogged down in regime change. And I think now what the President is trying to prove, is that it is possible to at least incur or instigate a regime change from the m. US Military without getting bogged down in a quagmire. And that proof of concept has not been proven yet. And so I think much of the debate, notice I didn't say all, but much of the debate on our side, is fine and I think is worthy until that concept is proven. but I think overall it should be done under a banner of trust. We can, that this president has earned our trust in this arena. I wouldn't do that in every arena, but in this arena, into the foreign policy arena, I have zero, qualms about trusting him whatsoever. And I also think that, we have such huge short attention spans now. Okay, 6m months from now, if the average American doesn't view this economy more affordable, it won't matter. Jenna, if we manage to completely eliminate the entire Iranian high command and put a western friendly government in there without one single American boot on the ground, we're going to get annihilated in these midterms. On the other hand, if the economy is considered way more affordable six months from now than it currently is, it won't matter how much angst there was and how many Terri Priests we created and everything else that we're all angsty about right now. We're going to win. Right. And that's just the attention span. I mean look at the, look at the cable networks. They've largely moved on from wall to wall coverage. They actually did several days ago.
: Right.
Steve Deace: And so that's just also the reality, for better or for worse, of the, of the culture we live in today.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah. You know, really well said.
Seminair: Trump has shown a track record of strategic operations
And I appreciate you bringing up operation Midnight Hammer because you know, when that happened, and I think that was June of last year and when there was the strategic targeting of the Iranian nuclear facilities and that was kind of, you know, dubbed the 12 Day War. it's so funny how everybody in media loves to characterize these strategic strikes immediately as oh, we're in a war. And then you know, the Democrats of course claim it's unconstitutional just for the media purposes. And you know, everybody literally gets up in arms and all of that. And yet, ah, Trump has shown a track record of kind of these strategic operations. He's been very opposed to engaging the US in long term conflicts. this is part of the reason that he wanted to come into office and end the war in Ukraine, saying that that had gone on for far too long. US had participated by way of giving too much money. so I think, you know, for, for a lot of his track record rationale, we can reasonably say, okay, let's wait and see. I mean this hasn't even been a month and there has been a lot of, a, lot of success there. But I think that you're right overall in how to process this, in light of the midterms because, this is really where everybody should focus in 2026 and heading into November, you know, whether it's focusing on Iran, which I agree with you, I don't think is going to be like the biggest voting issue by far, in November. The, the actual bigger focus really should be on passing the Save act. And I'm actually surprised, but not surprised that the GOP isn't focused more on that and pushing the media to focus more on the Save act because that's really ultimately what's going to make or break the midterms, for us, I think.
Steve Deace: Well, I think you're exactly correct. And it goes back to the previous point where listen, what happens on X matters and is real, but it's often also amplified and contrived at the same time. Right. and here's what I mean by that. We wouldn't win the last election without Elon Musk. Elon Musk and what he did with X, creating the largest free speech platform on planet Earth in, the history of planet Earth. I mean, essentially I've always, you know, Trump to me is a Luther, Martin Luther like character. A lot of his own, very similar, characteristics, and lack of refinements, I guess we'll say. and to me, Musk is the Gutenberg, the man who gave the printing press. Right. At the same time, Luther emerged in order to get his message out to the masses. And Musk did that with, X. And so X definitely proved that what happens there is real because it was a huge part of how we won this last election. But it's real at a high meta level. it doesn't.
: It still.
Steve Deace: You barely have. 20% of Americans have an active X account. They're still not really active in the discourse there. It's those of us who form discourse for a living and discuss discourse for a living. it's real to us. And so we often know. And that's where a lot of opinions and narratives get formed and battled out. But we often overly amplify things there as if it is some overwhelming, ratio of people, you know, and you and I are probably, you know, old enough now to remember that, you know, 10, 15 years ago, the Ron Paul revolution, you know, young people. And we had to, this is, we had to cater to the young people. All right? They just want free pot and gay marriage and Sodom and Gomorrah and low taxes. Right? This would they. They were dominating cpac, you remember these days, I'm sure.
: Right.
Steve Deace: Okay. Sadly, they were going to remake everything, okay? And we had to absolutely play to this or we were dead as a party. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, now, you know, 10 years later, Republicans are more opposed to gay marriage now, according to polling, than they have been since before Oberge fell.
: All right?
Steve Deace: And we do have a real anti Semitism problem on the right. It's being stoked by a couple of very high profile podcasters. One of them who's just a grift queen and always has been, but so she's not really a danger. The other one though is, and that's Tucker, because he is a serious thinker and has done some serious work and has serious credentials that have to be acknowledged and wrestled with. All right? But Ron Paul was a serious figure too, and he didn't remake the Republican Party. And I think that we're somewhat overblowing the, real problem with anti semitism that we have on the right because we see so much of it. Just as we saw this in the old Reddit forums and message boards of yesteryear, we see so much of it now on X. Okay, so there's a real cadre and cache of this, but it really hasn't filtered down to the water table a lot of, Republican voters yet, and it may never for that matter, depending on what happens at the meta level battle that some of us are engaged in now. But what clearly has filtered down into the water table is the Save America Act. And I'm just going to tell you right now, this Iran war, unless we're dead wrong and Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio and Donald Trump get body snatched into Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, okay? And you know, that and that era of people and they do get bogged down into a quag, you know, a quagmire in Tehran, which I cannot envision happening.
: Okay?
Steve Deace: But if, but barring that happening, the issue that has the chance, that's not going to divide our base. The Save America act could euthanize our base. People are already, if you look at special midterm election, I mean our energy level is already down all over the country, which is typical. Traditionally president after presidents parties, after winning that presidential election, typically lose the next midterm. In fact, going back to 19, going back the last 40 years or 45 years, the only time a president won the midterm after he got elected was George W. Bush coming off of 9 11, Reagan lost third House seats. Bill Clinton, George W. Bush lost the, generic congressional ballot by 8 points nationwide. In 1990, Bill Clinton had the Contract with America. Barack Obama got destroyed in not one, but two midterm elections. George W. Bush then turned around and got annihilated in 2006, we lost about 40 House seats. In 2018. So this is pretty traditional. We were already dealing an energy problem on our side. But then turn around and take what is probably. I mean, I'm out on the campaign stump all over the state of Iowa for my governor campaign. Governor candidate Adam Steen. I get asked about the Save act and about voter fraud and election integrity at every single stop here in Iowa and do not pass that and you will euthanize our base. However bad you think these midterms will be, you're looking at obliteration nationwide. We're already losing normie voters because of the affordability issue, and they're not. And they're the ones that aren't happy about the Iran war more than anybody now, they are the normie voter. So if the economy is doing better six months from now, we'll get them back. Right, but you're demoralizing our base. I mean, people just start asking, what is the reason I'm even voting Republican if they cannot even do this? Okay? And I think that that has to become law. It has to be, they have to put it on the President's desk. And we all know it's going to get sued 10 minutes after they try to do it. But if they can't manage this as a political party then, and hey, we're not going to see like 30% of Republicans stay home. That's not realistic. You're going to see five or ten. And combined with the normie vote loss we're looking at now, you're talking about, literally, you're not just talking about losing everywhere you could possibly lose, but maybe a few places you didn't think you could lose.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, and this is one of those things, Steve, I agree with you, that is so basic and so fundamental to to preserving and protecting our American way of life.
It seems so, uh, incredible that Republicans wouldn't pass this SAVE act
It seems so, incredible that Republicans wouldn't pass this. And yet when you look at the
Steve Deace: Senate, which is only confirming everything that I just said, your reaction. I just said only confirmed what I just said.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, exactly. And so then that, and I'm one of those people that think, okay, if they can't even pass the SAVE act, then what good is it to even vote Republican? Of course, the rejoinder to that is, well, what choice do you have? You know, where else would you go? Because, you know, you don't want the Democrats to leave. But it seems like we've been in that perpetual cycle for so long that a lot of people are getting tired of it. And this is why there's a call, like they're, you know, cyclically that, that occurs to reform and reshape the Republican Party. Because you have people like Lindsey Graham, you know, going out on Fox News almost gleeful about war and begging to send America's children over. I mean, it's disgusting, frankly. And yet South Carolina, yeah, South Carolina keeps electing him. You know, and that, that is a prime example of how we keep repeating the cycles that don't work. But at least from what I've heard on Capitol Hill, John Thune, as the Majority leader in the Senate, just doesn't have the votes. Why not?
Steve Deace: Well, that's the thing. How who aren't the votes who aren't they? Let's get them out in the open. And I think, you know, I said earlier, the foreign policy arena is one place where I think that Trump has earned about the most Trump you can. Most Trump, I'm sorry, the most trust you can give a human politician because of his unprecedented success here. But now we're into an arena where I don't think he should shrug them to that extent.
Ken Paxton forced President Trump's hand on SAVE Act this week
: All right.
Steve Deace: And I think, frankly, Ken Paxton forced his hand this week. I think Ken Paxton pulled off the most deft, cunning political maneuver maybe I've ever seen, a conservative attempt in an, in a high profile election. And all the signs were pointing to Trump endorsing John Cornyn after Paxton lost to the primary. In the primary, him was it a point and a half and they're headed to a runoff. And all the signs were there. And Paxton came out and said, listen, I will happily step aside provided you pass the SAVE Act. It's the most important piece of legislation for our base this year. You guys do that and I'll step aside. I mean, he essentially made the issue center stage on over his ambitions in campaign. and I think he's forced the President's hand. The President is now saying and doing the things that he should have been doing six months ago with this legislation. He should have said from the very beginning, I'm not signing anything until you put this on my desk. Absolutely nothing. He's saying it now. He's saying now, now. And I think Paxton has frankly forced his hand because one of the reasons we're in this position with a lot of these listless Republicans is that Trump has frankly endorsed a bunch of them and protected them in primaries from people like us.
: Why?
Steve Deace: I don't know. It's on a list of questions I have for Jesus. Get there. Okay, you got to tell me, you know, Lord, I have got to know. How is it that Trump endorsed a bunch of people that he knew all along hated him in these primaries? What was the master plan here? I didn't see. I can't come up with a 4D chess move to explain 10 years of largely terrible endorsements for every. For every DeSantis that Trump gave us. Because we wouldn't have had him without Trump. For every DeSantis he gave us, he's given us about 30 terrible endorsements. That's a terrible ratio. And so now he's kind of cornered by a lot of his very bad endorsements. So now he's applying the kind of external pressure on them and see that's what's left. Now, this issue has seeped down into the water table of our base, okay? And now, you know, there's not just normies in the, in the, that are non partisan voters, there's normies in both political party voters, too. You'd still grab a good cadre of Democrat voters in a state like Mississippi, where AFR is located, and a bunch of them still would tell you that they think that trans and kids is the worst idea they've ever heard in their life. And you're like, do you know what political party you're in? And they kind of don't. You know, there's normies everywhere, right? Well, there's normies on our side, too. And that's why a lot of times when Trump endorses that primary is over right away, because that's kind of the bat signal to the normie voters of where to go. The ones that aren't totally focused and engaged on this full time. Well, now on this issue, they are, right? And so they're a dog with a bone.
: Now.
Steve Deace: This is like the only piece of legislation they know anything about. If they don't pass this, they've euthanized their base. So I don't know how it will happen. I still think they'll find a way to get it done. And for this reason, because of, because it's the same reason that m. The only time that McConnell ever fought Democrats was in 2016 when Antonin Scalia died. And he knew he could not let Barack Obama appoint Scalia's successor, so he fought him on Merrick Garland. And that ended up being the number two issue in the exit polls that year. Judicial nominees. And that one Trump that election with that issue. If you look at the exit polling and McConnell knew he had to do it because if they don't fight Obama on judicial nominees, then what point does the AFR listener have to keep voting Republican, despite all the other times they keep getting betrayed for doing it. And that's why I think they're going to end up doing it here, too. It won't be pretty, but I think in the end, the ability to keep the, you know, the lesser of tweebles paradigm going will outrank their own principles and they'll get it done. But that's, that's, that's still an open question and it's being debated right now.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, well, we got to take a break here, but Steve Dace, really appreciate it and I couldn't agree more. And I think that, Ken Paxton has forced President Trump's hand on this. And I hope that that continues. and this continues to be the issue, at least until it's passed heading into November. But one other thing, I really hope that this is a wake up call to the base who maybe isn't as online and focused on, you know, every little thing is maybe you and I are, that the Trump endorsements have not been great over the last 10 years and people really should question that and second guess and not be like, here in my home state of Florida, say, oh, well, Byron Donalds gets the Trump endorsement, so he must be, you know, the right pick for Florida. I totally disagree with that and I've said that very publicly for a lot of reasons that we'll still talk about. But, you know, we need to be circumspect and always conservative and voting our values. We'll be right back with more.
Pastor Gino Geraci discusses conflict in Iran with Jenna Ellis
: welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And you know, although we have been talking about how important the SAVE act is, we do still need to be talking about this conflict in Iran. And there's a great piece from All Israel News, our good friend Joel Rosenberg's outlet, he's the editor in chief there. And the headline reads, experts warn Iran's new leader is quote unquote, obsessed with end times and believes himself to be prophesied figure paving the way for the Mahdi. So, what does this mean exactly and how, does this perhaps, factor in to how Christians need to view the conflict in Iran and overall our view of eschatology? Well, let's welcome in Pastor Gino Geraci. He is the pastor emeritus of Calvary Chapel South Denver and a former FBI chaplain. And, has been for a long time, one of my pastors, when I lived in Colorado and is still a very dear friend. And Gino, I appreciate you joining this morning and you know, what do you make of this headline overall with this new supreme leader?
Gino Geraci: Well, I think that the article gets it exactly right, that this new Supreme Leader is obsessed with, the end times and sees himself as a kind of prophetic fulfillment. I think in order to put this in a kind of a context that our audience will understand, Iran is a constitutional theocracy and most people don't really understand what that means. Well, what it means is that their whole government is centered around a theological, mission and that is to bring about the Mahdi, just like Christians believe that Jesus is going to return, Shia Muslims believe that the Mahdi, the rightly guided person, is going to come back. And so their leadership, their clerical leadership, believes that it is incumbent upon them to act and behave in such a way that they can fulfill that mission. And I think that the article gets
Gino Geraci: it exactly right that most of west, the Western world has misunderstood Iran's identity and mission as a state.
Jenna Ellis: And you know, this is really fascinating because because you're right, I mean that kind of framework, is exactly why Americans need to resist Sharia law in the United States. They need to resist Muslim and Islamic influence in the United States because this isn't just a different legal system. It's it's, which of course is then incompatible with the US Constitution, but it's a religious based legal system. And this is important in the wider context as well of regime change that President Trump, and the White House have largely been pushing for. And so President Trump came out and said that he's not particularly pleased with the selection of this new Supreme Leader. But why does this ultimately matter not only politically but also to how Christians understand this conflict that has been going on, I mean for 47 years as everyone's been talking about. But you know, the conflict that's been going on a lot further back than that between Islam and, and Christians and basically truth versus a false God.
Gino Geraci: You know, again to frame this in a way that hopefully everybody can understand. What they get right with the, what the Islamists get right is it is an ideological divide. It is a deep divide. What they believe about what's real and what's true and what's good in the future is very different from our view. so, so there's a spiritual component obviously. So the spiritual component is that there is an ideological division. But the other, the other thing is that well if you understand their theology and what they're trying to accomplish, there's several things that Christians can understand, that they believe, but that's very different from what we believe. So the way that I would think about it is in their worldview, their whole point is to bring about the Mahdi, this particular new, Khomeini Jr. They believe that he might be the prophetic fulfillment of three individuals who are going to precede the coming of the Mahdi. And that's why this is such an important issue. so is there a spiritual component? Yes. Is there an ideological component? Yes. Can you negotiate with them like other normal states? The answer is no. And this president, as our Southern Friends say, bless his heart. kind of understands that, but perhaps doesn't. I don't know if someone has clearly laid out what these people believe, why they believe it, and why it matters. So
Gino Geraci: just, like we as Christians believe that Jesus is going to return, and that, ah, but the way that we get Jesus, we don't get to manipulate Jesus into returning. But in Islamic, especially in Shia belief, they can do things to hasten the coming of the Mahdi. And so, the theological differences is the identity of the Savior. In Shia, ah, he's a human imam descended from Muhammad. We believe that Jesus is the divine savior. And so, in their way of thinking, Jesus Isa, supports the Mahdi and will precede the coming of the Mahdi. And so the structural pattern is surprisingly similar. So imagine we as Christians and they as Muslims. They believe in the corruption of the world, the rise of deceptive rulers, supernatural signs, the. The arrival of a divinely guided leader, but. And then the establishment of a just kingdom and a final judgment. So in their clerical way of thinking, they're trying to bring that about. But the way that you bring that about is to sow chaos.
Jenna Ellis: And this is such an important understanding for especially how the diplomacy may not have gone the way that the administration and President Trump wanted, because. Right. And I agree with you that likely, this fuller context, isn't as deeply understood as perhaps it should have been or should be, in the inner circles of the White House. Because, you know, President Trump tends to, approach some of these other foreign leaders as if they have the same goals for their people and their country as he does for our people in our country, saying, you know, you want to be prosperous, you want to give people freedom, you want to, you know, be the best and the most powerful, and, you know, all of these other things that, that may characterize more of a constitutional, republican, capitalist society. But what we need to understand about the motivations of this type of religion and then this sort of, how they, how these beliefs actually shape geopolitical decisions is that not everyone comes from the same, base worldview, of course, and therefore they don't have the same base motivations or goals. And so as we're looking at this new regime, how do you think that this factors into shaping, the geopolitical decisions? Because it was so fascinating, Gino, that there was an article from Huffington Post that was alleging, I think, over exaggerating, but alleging that some of our own US Military commanders were suggesting to troops that the conflict in Iran was hastening the, was hastening Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ. And as you were talking, you were reminding me of that article. And I'm going, maybe Huffington Post has it totally wrong. And they're just assuming that Christianity is basically, like, Islamic.
Steve Deace: And that's.
Gino Geraci: That's exactly right.
Gina Geraci: This is a political conundrum for the White House
So if we, again, if we ask and answer kind of a different question, and that is, well, how is the belief, do Christians really believe in an Armageddon? Will there be a global conflagration? And will this hasten that global conflagration?
Steve Deace: You'll remember.
Gino Geraci: Well, maybe it's hard to remember, but over, you know, on 9 11, George Bush said, we are not at war with Islam. and I think he was mistaken in this sense. There is an ideological divide. There is an ideological war with, Shia Islam, which represents 15% of the total Muslim population. Is it safe to say that all Muslims are trying to hasten and bring about the Mahdi? The answer is no. just like Tucker Carlsen has been floating the idea that Christians are committed to blowing up, the mosque and the holy site on the Temple Mount in order to hasten the building of the Third Temple and then bringing about, the return of Jesus. But it's that kind of view that. Imagine if it's a deeply held view, and that's really your real view, that you might be capable of doing weird and wicked things to burn because you think you're bringing about the hastening of the coming of Jesus. And so that, to me, is the interesting insight that you just brought up. are Christians trying to hasten the coming of Jesus? Well, we hasten the coming of Jesus by praying and living a godly life and by reminding ourselves that Jesus has promised to return. He. He's. But he's going to return on his terms, not on our terms. They believe that they, the hardline Mahdis, believe that they can hasten the return by initiating global conflict and sustaining that global conflict. That's the difference.
Jenna Ellis: M. And, and as. As they have that belief, and obviously that is completely different than what, Christianity teaches. How do you think that that should influence the White House at least, you know, not necessarily on, you know, every foreign policy, geopolitical decision, but at least, inform them in how they approach some aspects of diplomacy.
Gino Geraci: I think the way that I would, if I had the president's ear, here's what I would say to the President. I would say, I know that you think that their belief is nonsense, but they believe it. Now, the way that I would talk to the President is I think that the President really sees the world rather simply. in this sense, is this good for America or is this not good for America? And then he's trying to parse and think about how do I go from here? Is this good for us or is this bad for us? And then I would say in their worldview, in their ideology, in their way of thinking, they're thinking, is this good not for our country as a state, that's charged with the care and the concern of its people, but their ideological goal is to generate sufficient mischief in order to bring about a global conflagration. And that's where I think the president would say these people are nuts and they can't be reasoned with. And, so this really is a dilemma. This is a true problem. This has got to be a political conundrum for the White House.
Jenna Ellis: Well, we're going to take a break here, but Gina Geraci, former pastor of Calvary Chapel South Denver, is my special guest this morning and he's going to hold on with us, to come back and finish out the show because there's so much more to talk about on this issue. And this is why I love Christian radio programs and Christian based media, because these are the things that, you know, Fox News and Newsmax and all that aren't going to cover. And this is such a critical issue, and a critical aspect of everything that's going on in the Middle east and something that, we really need to pay attention to and understand more thoroughly. So we will be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis talks with Gino Geraci about Islam and Christianity
: welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with Gino Geraci, who's former pastor of Calvary Chapel South Denver and also a former FBI chaplain. And Gino, you and I were talking before the break about, the perspective, the religious perspective of Islam and how this plays into, the geopolitical conflict and what America needs to understand about, what the Quran teaches and how, this differs, of course, from the Bible. And And so while it's important to understand this as it relates to current events, and that's incredibly important, it's also a broader and I think more fundamental, issue that then is raised that this is why Christians need to always know first and foremost what the Bible teaches so that we can rightly divide truth from error. When we see headlines like this and we know what Christianity teaches and we can contrast that with what, people are suggesting it teaches falsely or from what Islam teaches. And so, you know, a lot of. Unfortunately, a lot of churches now in America kind of don't want to talk about eschatology. They don't want to talk about, how you rightly frame it, which is the end of all things, as the definition of eschatology. And for listeners, you know, when I use that phrase, I borrowed it from Pastor Gino and his many teachings, that I've sat under over the years. And, you know, this is a topic that you have not shied away from in your entire, pastoral ministry. And it's so important for Christians to be well versed in what the Bible actually teaches.
Gino: Iran's legitimacy comes from the fact that their supreme leader is
So, I know we only have about, 12 minutes left, but what are the guardrails and the basics that pastors should give believers so they stay biblically grounded when discussing eschatology and prophecy?
Gino Geraci: Well, you know, I think that the first guardrail is to teach what the Bible teaches, to say what the Bible says, and to remind everyone that the text can never mean what the text never said. so do we as Christians believe that Jesus is going to come back? Yes. do we as Christians believe that as Christians living in a fallen world, we. That we have a role to play in the political process? The answer is yes. And, Jenna, just very quickly, I wanted to just point out how Mahdi eschatology affects Iranian ideology. Okay. so imagine if you're Iranian, what you've talked about, your constitutional lawyer. Political legitimacy, revolutionary identity, foreign enemies, military culture, strategic risk tolerance, and their way of thinking. Their legitimacy comes from the fact that their supreme leader governs as a representative of the Hidden Imam. Now imagine if our. If our president believes that he governs as a representative of Jesus Christ. And you go, no, he governs in his legitimate role in the constitutional role that's been assigned to him by the Constitution in Iranian way of thinking. Remember, they're a theocratic constitution. It's written into their constitution. Like the article indicates that he is a representative of the Hidden Imam and he must act according to what Shia. Ah, Islam dictates and the revolutionary identity. Iran sees itself as preparing the world for the Mahdi. And then their foreign enemies, Israel and the United States, are framed in all apocalyptic terms. And in their military culture, it's martyrdom and sacrifice. So martyrdom and sacrifice are valorized. And so guess what? The more people who die, the more glorious it is. And then you think about the strategic risk tolerance. Some leaders accept instability as a part of the divine history. So this is an area that most analysts aren't really recognizing that, you know, how much instability can you tolerate? And from their way of thinking, they can risk a great deal of instability because it furthers their mission. So I just wanted to make sure everybody understood that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, no, and I appreciate that. And especially the correct characterization of this being, of Iran being a theocratic, system of government, because often, not Christians, but you know, those who oppose Christians influence in our civil government, falsely accuse our US Constitutional system as also being theocratic. And that's why they falsely suggest there has to be this high wall of separation of church and state and that Christians can't influence otherwise. We're suggesting that because we're a Christian nation that equals the theocracy. And that is false. It's suggesting that our foundation of civil government derives our legitimacy from God our Creator, that there are certain fundamental truths that are discoverable and that are non negotiable and that we have to live in accordance with not only the the universe around us and the, the reality to which we're presented, as C.S. lewis says, but also the morality that is derived from the God of the Bible and that then dictates what is legitimate for the civil government to do or not. But our pastors and our clergy and our ecclesia are not in authority roles over the government, similar to a theocracy. So that's very different. And Islam also teaches that the Mahdi and Jesus return together, but their roles differ from the biblical account. And so this is also a major theological difference. And this is yet another example, Gino, of how Christianity and Islam, even when it comes to just how civil government operates, is just fundamentally incompatible and very different. We do not serve the same God.
Gino Geraci: Exactly. And so if people go, are we at war with Islam? And I think that the right way to answer that is there is a deep ideological divide between the Shia version of Islamism, that seeks to literally disrupt the global order. And so you're exactly right. In their way of thinking, in Shia's way of thinking, Jesus supports the Mahdi, okay? In Christianity, Jesus is the ruler. And so they have, in their way of thinking, in Shia, the Mahdi is already alive. in Christianity, Jesus is ascended into heaven. He's not hidden on the earth, but will return according to his specific promise. And so, in their way of thinking, in Shia, the human Imam is a direct descendant of Muhammad. In our way of thinking, Jesus is the son of God, the son of David. And so there, there's profound differences. But one of the ways that, again, I want to just really impress upon people is that Iran's behavior isn't purely theological, Jenna. It's not even purely pragmatic. So it's a bl of this religious eschatology, this revolutionary ideology, and this conventional geopolitical strategy. So if we're thinking, well, they don't really have a view. No, they really do. That they really have thought long and hard about these things and are acting out their deeply held beliefs.
Jenna Ellis: And, you know, I wish we could say the same about every Christian that, you know, they're acting out their deeply held religious beliefs. Right. I mean, and that should be. Actually, I hope that, people would. Would say of. Of us, what we're now saying about, about the. The Muslims that, you know, we should have such a knowledge of what the Bible teaches and of, what Jesus commands for our lives that we cannot help but follow that. And so as we're looking at this contrast, where should Christians, or how should Christians process this in contrasting, you know, what Islam teaches, but be solid in saying, well, no, this is what the Bible teaches about the end times.
Gino Geraci: You know, there's a couple of really good resources you alluded to. One, obviously, Joel Rosenberg is your friend and my friend, and you. I got to hear the interview that you did with Joel. And you know, it's all. Israel News is just such a wonderful source of information to help think about what's happening in real time. So that's a very, very good resource. The other thing, you know, obviously, you know that I'm on the board of [email protected] [email protected] we've got several articles including, you know, what is Shia Islam? What do they really believe? you know, who. What is the 12th Imam and eschatology. So we've posted several [email protected] about, these issues. Like, you know, who is Al Masiyah Ad Dajjal in Islamic eschatology? This is their Antichrist figure. who is, you know, what are Sunni Muslims? What are Shia Muslims? what do they believe? How does Islam differ from, historical biblical Christianity? who's the false prophet in end times? What will the end times look like from a biblical standpoint? So we've literally got dozens and dozens and dozens of articles on this subject.
Jenna Ellis: And that's so important because I think, you know, for some who, maybe have. Have ignored or just, you know, kind of said, okay, well, eschatology Isn't that important? Because, you know, even Christians differ and in some of their views.
Gotquestions. org is a great resource for biblical questions
And you know, I'm going to focus on some other things. It can be daunting to to ask and answer the question, you know, where do I even begin, to learn about some of these things. Especially because, you know, the book of Revelation is is itself ah, very difficult to get through. And it's very difficult without a guide, and without an understanding. And so you know, some of these things that got questions.org you know, I read that site as well and I mean, and it's great because it gives a summary basically. And it's way better by the way for listeners than chat GPT and you know, where you never know who actually is inputting this. You don't want to just Google search or AI generate your response to biblical questions. You want to know that the source that you are getting an answer from is biblically sound. And so, gotquestions.org is great.
Jenna, where would you encourage Christians to rightly divide truth from error
And just in the last like two minutes then where would you encourage Christians to rightly divide truth from error when we're talking about the end times?
Gino Geraci: Well again that, that very subject of discernment and how to rightly divide. There's so many great resources that, that are available like how to think biblically and truth from error. I am thinking of Rob Bowman's book on dividing the truth. Norm Geisler has written on this subject extensively and you know, not to be shamelessly self promoting but we've got again articles on discernment and there, there are so many great resources that Jenna, to your point, there's so much out there. Why should we go to inferior resources when there are great resources, resources available. but as you know, it's a lifelong pursuit, pursuit to try to think biblically. so there's a lot of discernment ministries that are out there that provide tools. I'm thinking of Charlie, Kirk's friend, you know, his name.
Jenna Ellis: gosh, Frank Turek.
Gino Geraci: yes, Frank Turek, yes. And you know, Frank Turek has written extensively on this subject. And so, you know, for people I know we're living in an age where a lot of people aren't reading but they like to get brief but biblical answers. and so all of those. Frank Turek is a great resource as well.
Jenna Ellis: Gino, you are a great resource as well. And I so appreciate you taking the time this morning to delve into this, these topics. And this is why Christians do need to be daily in the Word. Be studying these things so that we can rightly divide truth from error and look at the headlines from a biblical worldview perspective. Reach me and my team. Jenna F R.net M.
Jenna is joined by Steve Deace from The Blaze, who shares his insights on President Trump's foreign policy successes and the trust he has earned in this arena.
Pastor Gino Geraci joins Jenna to unpack the religious dimensions of the Iranian regime's ideology
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