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Jenna Ellis Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Rad
Jenna Ellis I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you. And God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.
Jenna Ellis This is Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
Examining the Importance of Voting, Preserving America, and the Plight of Christians Globally
Jenna Ellis Good morning. It is Wednesday, October 28, and we are just days ahead of the midterm election. And so a lot of the president's, cabinet members and of course, his campaign staff and himself personally are going around the country speaking for various candidates and various issues. And RFK Jr. Is actually doing, one of the best jobs, I think, of highlighting what is so important about voting in not just this election, but maintaining an understanding and awareness of actually what it means to preserve America. And he was talking at the, Kent gop, and I think this was from yesterday. I don't have a date on it specifically, but he's speaking recently and talking about Christians being wiped out in the Middle east, saying there were millions and millions of Christians. Egypt was a Christian country, Libya was a Christian country, Iraq was a Christian country. The Christians have been expelled. These are the genocides. And he goes on, you know, to talk about why it's so important that worldview matters and that we understand, when the Christians leave, things get worse. And when the Christians are expelled and exterminated, things get worse. And our good friend Joel Rosenberg, also posted an article Yesterday from the BBC news that was reporting on more than 60 Christians were killed in Ethiopia massacre, a church official says, and his response was, why isn't the world outraged about this? Christians are being targeted by radical extremists around the globe. And our good friend Steve Dace, said, you know, again, RFK Jr. Is dropping knowledge that evangelical pastors en masse have refused for the last decades. And Steve joins us now.
Differentiating Political Parties and the Necessity of a Biblical Worldview in Governance
And Steve, I think this is so important and timely, especially ahead of the midterms. Because this isn't just about, you know, two American political parties that maybe nostalgically we can look back and say, all right, if we're on the political spectrum, you know, the Republicans are a little right of center, maybe a lot right of center, and the Democrats are maybe a little bit left of center. They want bigger government. They think government can solve the problems. Republicans are more for limited government and saying, you should have freedom. But in general, you know, these are just policy debates. But everybody is pro, America in the sense that we are founded as a Christian country, respecting that our law is based on a biblical worldview of the definition, the biblical definition of truth versus evil and, and morality. That's no longer the case. And when RFK Jr. Is bringing this up, I. I'm reminded that this is the message that the GOP at large, and also especially Christian pastors and need to be pressing, not just ahead of the midterms, but in general. Good morning.
The Decline of Religious Influence in West Michigan and Observations from College Towns
Steve Deace Good morning, Jenna. Totally agree. And I, you know, Kent County, Michigan, I grew up there, when I was growing up in Kent and Ottawa counties or Twin counties in West Michigan. When I was growing up there, those were the two, per capita, the two most churched counties in America. And that's not the case there anymore, because, there hasn't been preaching there for the last. Rob Bell's infamous heretical church came out of Kent County, Michigan. so, you know, there hasn't been preaching like that in that area of the country, in the last 20, 30 years en masse. Which is why, you know, a guy who's most of his life has been kind of a nominal Catholic and left of center, but has been an earnest truth seeker. You know, he's not dogmatic about, you know, progressive, ah, beliefs. he would have fallen into the camp of the kind of Democrat you just described. this is why he's able to just look objectively at history and just call balls and strikes, because he's also not concerned about being called a racist. I don't know how being critical of someone's religion makes you a racist, but here we are, those sorts of things that in the last generation of the right, everything was done to avoid being called these names by people who hate us. He just isn't stigmatized, by any of that. And so this is just common sense to him. But, you know, I was just in Detroit on the other side of the state, this weekend, for football was all over Anne Arbor, which is really the Anne Arbor. East Lansing, Mount Pleasant, Kalamazoo. Those are the major college towns in Michigan that delivered the nomination for El Said way closer than the polls in the primary. claimed and EL Said beat the Whitmer machine. They did not want him to be the Senate nominee. Many there was not as much El Said signage in Anne Arbor as I anticipated there was going to be.
Critiquing Pastors' Lack of Engagement and the Historical Consequences of Christian Exodus
I mean, I mean Anne Arbor is one of the most left wing college towns in America. I anticipated. I mean Anne Arbor. So left wing, one of my best buddies is the big defense attorney in town. Jenna. He's the big Republican. That tells you how left wing Anne Arbor is. The big defense attorney in town is the right winger. And I mean I expected to see you know, white lesbian grad student, you know, with, with graduate degrees at Michigan out there with prayer mats to Mecca in the afternoon. But I didn't quite see that. but you know, this is, this is, this is why I changed my schedule at the last minute at the request of TBUSA Faith to fly into Detroit on the way to another speaking engagement to address a packed room of pastors there about a month ago. because they haven't done their job. And, and because they haven't done their job, a lot of our people, you know, the prophet Hosea says, my, my people perish for a lack of knowledge. A lot of our people don't truly understand what RFK Jr. Is saying there. This was common sense and known, in every era of the Western church from the Crusades till now. that this, this is what happens when Islam takes over. And this is how you can defeat a lot of the grapers. A lot of your gripers are just young men who want this era of cowardice to end. But they don't really have a history or theology. They claim to be based, but they're not really based in anything or based on anyone. and so you can easily defeat their arguments by just by pointing out the things that RFK Jr. Said, which is. Well, I mean we're, I mean let's take it even further. The book of Revelation begins with letters to seven churches. They're located in a place called Asia Minor. That place is modern day Turkey. Where those churches go. Can you go visit them today? Where are they now? Oh, they're gone. Well how, what happened?
Understanding Church History and the Need for Active Discipleship in a Secular World
Did they lose a ballot referendum and they were just voted out? I mean what occurred there and then, if that's the case, then why is a country like Turkey even in NATO then? I think these are the kinds of questions that the church took its discipleship responsibility seriously and it answered as applications of the gospel, as applications of the teachings of the word of God, not just teaching. The gospel is kind of this Tim Keller third way isolated form of fire insurance, but it never enter for your eternal soul, which it is, but it never intersects whatsoever with the evils in the world or the kingdoms of this world. and so it's just kind of this neutral, aesthetically, you know, hermetically sealed property, of salvation. And so when you teach that sort of doctrine, of none confrontation for a generation, you end up with the camel's nose under the tent, pardon the pun, and you end up cornered, as we are right now. And the only, when you get cornered, the only way out is to fight your way out. What's it going to take to fight our way out? You know, I was reading this morning about I think it's a community in Texas that refused, took over their city council and everything, refused to let Muslims come in, and get a permit to demolish your home and build a mosque. That's what it's going to take.
The Fight Against the Slow Takeover of Islam and the GOP's Hesitation to Address It
You're going to have to fight?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, 100%. I mean, and this is the issue, I think that people like you and I and others who like RFK who are raising these concerns, understand. And yet people like El Said who think America is the evil one for you know, suggesting that somehow we're a Christian nation and not wanting all of the importation of of Islamists. We don't want to see things like what's happening in Dearborn, Michigan. We don't want to see what things that are happening, like what almost happened in Texas with catering, you know, to the Muslims and their prayer and foot washing stations in the airport. I mean we're the ones who are saying that, you know, all of these things are a slow takeover and then the Christians eventually would be expelled or exterminated out of America. I mean that's the logical conclusion of history if, if we continue to allow this to happen. And we need to say that honestly. But few people in the GOP are willing to say that and oddly few Christians are willing to say that because somehow we have taken this notion of Christianity being this, you know, softler, gentler, Christian, Christian view, that says that somehow being a good Christian is accepting the secular notion of religious freedom. Which means that we have to somehow say that all religions are equally viable in the United States. And whatever you profess to believe, you can also, build your law and your society and your home life and everything around that, with no problems. And yes, we can all coexist peacefully and we are somehow just completely ignoring all of this. And, and why do you think that the GOP isn't running on these types of messages?
RFK Jr. as a GOP Campaigner and the Church's Role in Shaping Political Discourse
I mean, I think RFK right now is one of the most brilliant, campaigners for the GOP because he's raising these types of issues.
Steve Deace Because no political party is ever going to be out ahead of the church. I mean, it's always going to be downstream from church. And I think, you know, for some of our friends who like to sit online and nitpick, you know, as if we're still in the midst of a Trump DeSantis primary in the spring of 23, and nitpick, absolutely everything that Trump does or says, they have it backwards. It's not. I can't believe that the last hero we have left standing between us, and, what's left of Western civilization and the spirit of the age is this, you know, multiple divorced playboy who's still at age 78, still wants to drop four letter bombs at his political rallies like he's doing an opening monologue on snl. Tisk, Tisk, Tisk. You have it backwards. It's your. The question really is, what. What was the condition of the church? What was the condition of the church that God said? You know what I mean? I mean, this is probably who we're going to have to send right here. This guy. We're gonna probably to send this guy I'm, gonna have. Huh? This is the guy they're gonna have. They were to send them to have them shoot at him because you're m. Why? Because most of your path pastors aren't worthy of being shot.
The Importance of Courageous Pastors and the Downstream Effects of a Weakened Church
Why was Charlie shot? You know, what was the topic of the previous pastor summit earlier this year? Right. For tpusa. The title of my talk was to the pastors in that room, be worthy of the bullet that Charlie Kerr took for you. Why did they shoot at Charlie and not most of your pastors? Because they're not worthy of being shot at. They're not a threat. Biggest problem this country has is we don't have enough pastors worthy of being shot or jailed. That's the biggest problem we have. You're literally not going to fix anything else until you fix that. Because this is the plumb line of a culture right here. And we just took that off for a generation. For, ah, a generation. It was more important to build your brand than to build a kingdom. And so here we are. And all of what you're lamenting is all downstream from that. Without the Church, none of, none of the things we've, we've. And you know this, I know you know this, so I'm, I'm preaching to the choir here. But without the Church, none of the things we hold sacred, we hold as norms, as Americans, or throughout the history of the west, none of those things are possible.
Analyzing the Decline of Christianity in Western Europe and its Impact on Society
Why, why is what's happening in Western Europe happening right now? Because 45 of France identifies as Catholic. Only 5% of the French actually go to Mass on a regular basis. Meaning a month, once a month or more. I mean, I don't know how much you know, your audience knows about Catholic theology, but liturgy is Catholic theology and Catholicism, like you, you can't be a Catholic without participating in the liturgy. That's the theology. So you can claim to be Catholic all you want, but if you're not showing up to perform the sacraments and to be, and showing up to Mass, you're just a Catholic in name only. Less than 1. About 1 1/2% of France is evangelical. So that's how you're here. That's why what's happening in France is happening. The same thing's happening. That's the same reason things are happening in the UK and everywhere else. We used to have popes that earned saint status by declaring literal holy war against Muslim invaders and praying, ah, and ordering the, the, the parishioners around the world to say Hail Marys and rosaries, for God to grant them victory in war. We now have a Pope who, when a bunch of Christians are slaughtered in Jordan, supposedly the most moderate, of Arab nations, where by the way, it's illegal to proselytize. If you scroll down, you can tell the the quote, anti Zionist, that if they go down the streets of Jordan and scream out Christ is King, they're all going to get arrested if not killed. And that's Jordan, by the way. So, his response to a slaughtering of Christians in Jordan is I'm going to pray for interfaith dialogue and peace among religions. That's why the church is at the fault line of all of this. And therefore it's the solution to all of this.
The Republican Party's Strength Compared to the Current State of the Western Christian Church
I would argue even in its current state, the Republican Party, and I think, you know, Jenna, I am not shy about airing my criticisms over the course of my career at the Republican Party. So the fact that I'm about to say what I'm about to say, this is a Nixon and, the only nation could go to China moment. Okay? I'm not on the GOP team, GOP speaker circuit. I don't get the, I don't go on the calls and get the talking points and then send out to all of you guys and pretend they're my actual thoughts. I don't do any of that. So keep that in mind when I, when you hear me say what I'm going to say next. The Republican Party, even in its current state, is a more formidable foe for the spirit of the age than collectively the Christian church in the west and in America is at the moment. And that's the answer to every question you're going to ask.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and that's truly the problem.
Trump's Popularity, Pastors' Lack of Courage, and Spiritual Battles in the Political Realm
And you and I have talked about, extensively that pastors need to have courage and rise up with courage. And the interesting thing is this is why Trump has been so popular, because he was simply someone who, who rose up with courage, spoke the truth and was willing to fight. Right. And these pastors, you know, are saying, well, if I, you know, stand up and I say anything controversial, then I'm going to lose half my audience. And they're timid and they're all, you know, all of these things. And it's self defeating. Because you wonder why Trump has more loyalty among his base than, you know, the Christians in, in some ways have to. The truth is because he is being a leader. I mean, he can go out and say these four letter words. He can, you know, say some things this week, you know, with respect to some female body parts and male as well, that, you know, I think is, is just shameful, and really not get a lot of criticism for that. And for the people who are criticizing, it's like, well, that's Trump and, you know, he gets the pass on this. The reason for it ultimately is because people see the leader and they want to follow the, the leader that is standing up with courage, that is willing to be shot at and continue. And pastors, I think, just don't understand that, that they're looking at all of the metrics of, you know, let's build the best playground for kids and let's, you know, have all the secular music in the lobbies and let's try to get everybody in the doors. And then they don't stand up for anything. And they wonder why people Leave. And they don't look at pastors as cultural and truth telling leaders, because they're not. They're, they're just simply not leaders.
Steve Deace I mean, in the time of the judges, you end up with heroes like Samson. And that's a very apt description for Trump. And I think, you know, ultimately, pastors have to see that these, these things that are manifesting politically are really battles of spiritual dominion playing out into the seen realm. I mean, what, what, what? Why did God send the specific 10 plagues against Egypt that he did? Because those were specific judgments against every form of pagan filth, occultic ritual, and demonic worship that was happening within that kingdom. He understood what God was saying, hey, what's playing out here above ground politically between my covenant people and this kingdom is really a battle of spiritual dominion. And so he is claiming his dominion as God. He's claiming his dominion, his superiority over these demonic forces with these judgments. When we do things like put foot washing basins in airports, in places like Texas, of all, of all things, that is a statement of spiritual acquiescence. That is saying, hey, the dominion of the enemy reigns here. We placated here, we allow it here, and that's what's really occurring. These aren't just mere policies.
Jenna Ellis We've got to, we got to take a break here. Let's step up, continue the fight. Steve, appreciate it. We'll be right back with more foreign.
Evaluating Trump's Support Among Evangelicals Amidst Concerns About Rhetoric and Policy
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Jenna Ellis welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Well, a new report is raising questions about whether President Trump's longstanding support among evangelical Christians is beginning to weaken as we approach the midterm elections. This comes from PBS NewsHour. So take that for what it's worth. But for more than a decade, ah, white evangelical voters have been among Trump's most reliable supporters. And according to, according to this new poll, 66% of that population still approve of Trump's job performance. It's much higher, obviously, than the overall, performance review, while nearly 3/4 say they intend to support Republicans in congressional elections. But there are some signs, according to this report, of declining enthusiasm. Trump's approval rating among voters who supported him generally in, 2024, has dropped 12 points. So since the beginning of his second term. And other polling indicates declining, support among younger voters and Latinos. The PBS report examines the intersection of faith and politics, highlighting how evangelical voters have historically prioritized issues like abortion, religious liberty, traditional values, while also raising questions about Trump's rhetoric, personal conduct, and whether Christians should tie their political identity so closely to any one political leader. So the report also, features a South Carolina pastor who's encouraging his congregation to approach elections through a biblical lens without endorsing a particular candidate or political party, likely because he is a, pastor and being careful along those lines. But that raises a much broader question. Are evangelical Christians actually reconsidering our political priorities, or are we just seeing a distinction between support for President Trump personally and some rightful criticism and support for the conservative policies that have generally always historically motivated Christian voters? Well, let's welcome in Rhyen Helfenbein, who is the Vice President of Communications and Public Engagement at Liberty University and the founding director of executive director of the Standing for Freedom Center. So, Rhyen, you know, I think that's, That's a valid distinction, to say, you know, that Christians should always support the policies and the principles because those are based on truth and grounded in scripture. And, we can personally support candidates, when they do things that are good, but we also can rightly critique them or criticize, when perhaps, you know, they're.
Forming Christian Conscience Through Scripture and Triaging Concerns Against Policy and Life Issues
They're not doing things in line with scriptural principles.
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, I go back to Carl F.H. henry's uneasy conscience of the Modern Fundamentalist. I mean, that's a work that's very old, mid 20th century now, back in the 1900s. But you think about, how Christians, ultimately, how we form our consciences. It's by the word of God, and we don't have strict adherence or allegiance to any one person, no matter how great they might be. It's always based on principle. Let me say this, though, that, Trump still has overwhelming support among evangelicals. I do think that polls sometimes reveal either, depending on how they're gathered, either a fatigue. You know, there's sometimes when it's a. It's an election year where he's not on the ballot. people are looking at these elections and saying, look, if I'm going to vote in the midterms, the President's on the ballot. I'm not really thinking at this point about the Oval Office. I'm thinking about my state. I'm thinking about the ballot initiatives, whatever is on that ballot, I'm thinking about the future of the Senate or the House. and so a lot of the victories that came early, very early in 2025, the things that the President did in the Oval Office might not be top, of mind. And you know, you go back and you have to say, look, you know, the President's been doing this now since, I mean you could say all the way back in 2015. You know, he was elected in 2016, took office in 2017. But we've had, you know, almost 10, 11, 12 years of Trump. When you consider, conservatives, and who has been the leader, carrying the banner for Republicans, Trump has been carrying it a long time, so there could be a little fatigue. But just to remind listeners, this is the man who has been the most pro life Republican, the most pro life president, in the Roe era. he's the one who you know, basically blocked aid to abortion. When you think about the Mexico City policy, when you think about, you know, what he did, regarding the faith office, what he did regarding, the appointment of Supreme Court justices and then federal justices, in his first term especially, and then you think about his whole task force to remove anti Christian bias, you think about the 80 year old women that were jailed for praying outside of abortion clinic. I mean Trump has been one of the most, doggish supporters of Christians, of evangelicals in this country, compared to many other Republican GOP, candidates and even presidents who have been in an office. But I think the big thing among evangelicals, even still, and it will always be a thing, is yes, we're concerned about language, we're concerned about rhetoric, we're concerned about how people carry themselves in office. at the end of the day we triage those concerns against actual policies, actual things that affect people's lives. And yes, we always look at these things through a biblical lens, life being the leading issue. But we care about marriage, we care about the protection of children, we care about immigration and the rule of law, we care about the rise of Islam. These are all things that evangelicals are concerned about. And certainly Trump has done a lot, to carry the weight of these issues.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, yeah, you know, really well said. And I agree with you that the evangelicals and Christians should care about rhetoric. They should care about how a person and a candidate carries themselves. They should care about all of those things. And, and it's not a but or an or, it's an and. They should also triage that and look at who's actually on the ballot. I mean, this is always a closed universe situation where you only have the options you have. You don't have perfect candidates. And, I've always said that a vote for someone is not an endorsement of literally everything they stand for, everything they've said, or everything they're going to do in office, either. I mean, even though I voted for President Trump, I can still say, you know, I disagree with that policy, or I can question this, or if, you know, I didn't vote for Biden and I can say, you know, if there was anything that I liked about his presidency, I can't think of anything at the moment, but if there was anything that was good, I could also champion that. Right? So. So it doesn't, it doesn't mean that we can only like the people we vote for. Like, we're wearing, you know, a football team jersey, and we can only champion our team because we're on the team. I mean, our standard should be objective and it should be based on principle and the biblical worldview.
The Distraction of Rhetoric Versus Policy and the Difficulty of Criticizing Political Figures
but when, when Christians do critique, you know, some of the rhetoric, especially, this week coming from, you know, from President Trump, was just so unnecessary. A lot of these things that he's saying at these rallies, and it's. I think it's such a distraction instead of focusing on the actual policy issues. and if I say those things, you know, especially online or even here on air, I'll get emails from listeners, which I love hearing your opinions, and that's completely fine. But, you know, I often get the commentary like, oh, don't be a stick in the mud, or, oh, you know, that's Trump, and we knew this and, oh, just give him a pass. And it's almost like you can't criticize anything that he does anymore. because then it's viewed as, well, you're not helping the party or you're not helping the cause. and I don't think that that's the right way to respond to some of these things. what's your view, Rhyen?
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, I think.
Avoiding False Equivalency and Maintaining Nuanced Conversations in Politics as Christians
I think it's one of those things. It entirely, you know, when it, when we're having conversations among ourselves as believers. You know, I don't believe in moral equivocation. I don't believe in false equivocation. Where, so much of what happens in kind of the wokeification of the evangelical world over the, over the last decade, where, you know, people, I would say evangelicals in particular, were sort of kneecapping one another, with the idea of both sides have problems. You know, Jesus, is neither a donkey nor a Democrat. See, the left has its problems, the right has its problems. this guy says mean things, he tweets mean things, and it's not nice, it's not appropriate. and therefore, you know, we wrap it up that both Republicans and Democrats are almost similar, the same. And obviously you and I don't think that way. Many of the listeners listening to this program do not actually think that way. We know better because we're adults and we don't think like children. we understand that there are serious issues, facing the electorate, when it comes to life. Marriage, family, national security, economic concerns, all of that. There is no false or moral equivalency.
The Importance of Mature Conversations and Guardianship of Rhetoric in Political Discourse
And yet, at the same time, because we're adults, we can have nuanced conversations and say, you know, I am very much in support of so much of what, you know, President Trump is doing, so much of what Republicans are doing. And I can, I can have that nuanced conversation like walking and chewing gum at the same time and saying, but I want better, even better representation in terms of what is being said, how it's being communicated. you know, I'm a Christian. I'm concerned about vain talk. I'm concerned about coarse jesting and things that are not uplifting. That still matters. It's not like it doesn't matter. It certainly does matter. And, as Christians, we need to be the guardians of rhetoric and language. And so, yeah, it matters.
Comparing Candidates' Policies and Rhetoric Through a Biblical Lens, Not Just Political Affiliation
and at the same time, at the very same time, there are certain candidates for office right now who will not do any of those things. and it won't speak in any of those ways. I'll give you an example, like a Talarico. I've not heard anything like that coming from a James Tallarico. And yet he has suggested many profane things in terms of policy, when it comes to transitioning kids, when it comes to men and girls, locker rooms, or, you know, God being non binary, it's not a curse word, but it is definitely heretical. And it should offend us, in even greater ways than a coarse or vulgar word being delivered inappropriately. And yet at the same time, you think about what the policies mean, you know, even on the right, the right versus the left. And so, you know, we can do this as adults, we can do this as Christians. We can have those mature conversations, and we should, we should be doing That m. And yet also encouraging one another, to take a realist approach, to this election and elections to come. There will never be a perfect candidate on the ballot.
The Burden on Pastors and the Shrinking Public Square for Christian Influence
I don't even like the prospect of talking about the lesser of two evils because oftentimes when we say evil, we mean it in an abject sense. I would want to encourage people to look at the actual issues. Yes, I think that there are many policies that Democrats support that are objectively evil, full stop, that it is a no go. and again, that does not mean that I agree with everything that Republicans are doing. as you began talking about that South Carolina pastor, I understand the burden and the weight of what pastors have to deal with going into the pulpit every Sunday and not compromising, what their calling is. I mean, ultimately they're not called there, to conduct Barna surveys. They're not called there to get out the vote. Their primary calling is to preach and teach the word of God. But as the public square is shrinking when it comes to truth Christian influence, when it comes to moral sanity, even greater burdens are laid upon pastors to say and do the things that are not being done in public schools are not being done in the media. So pastors have a lot that they carry, and they do not want to compromise ultimately their calling, which is to preach and teach, the word of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Navigating a Post-Christian Society and Exercising Wise Voting as Christians
So, yeah, we are fast approaching a new era for many Americans. I think Europe has experienced this for a long time, because they live in a largely post Christian society. but we are, you know, fast approaching the same kind of cultural conditions that they have in those places. And I think that's why, Christians are having to grapple, with so many of these concerns.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, absolutely. Really well said, Rhyen. And we have to take a break here, but Rhyen Helfenbein is going to stick with us through the break. We're going to continue to talk about the midterms, the Christian approach. And I understand this is difficult. Right? I mean, it would be a lot easier to be a secular Christian or to not even be a Christian at all in the sense that, you know, you could participate in the vulgarity or you could, you could say, you know, well, I don't care and it doesn't matter. And, you know, you guys are just being the fuddy duddies or whatever by not, not being okay with some of this rhetoric. And that's not how Christians need to walk wisely and at the same time, we also need to be wise about how we exercise our vote, what things we talk about it. And Rhyen, you're absolutely right that it doesn't have to be necessarily a four letter word to be profane. A lot of these policies that the left candidates are supporting are absolutely profane. And that matters as well. We'll be right back.
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Christian Responsibility in Government: Upholding Standards Without Compromising Primary Mission
Jenna Ellis welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Welcome back. And I'm still here with my special guest, Rhyen Helfenbein, who's the vice president of communications at Liberty University and the founding executive director of the Standing for Freedom Center. We're talking about the midterms, we're talking about politics, civic engagement, and the responsibility of Christians to maintain a biblical standard. Not one that is, rooted in, tribalism and political identity or specific, specific loyalty to any one particular candidate. And also our duty, though in spite of maybe not having a, perfect candidate, we never will. Ah, our responsibility to exercise our duty to vote, and to vote for the best way that we can help protect and preserve America as a Christian nation and that our laws reflect the truth of God and legitimacy in government. And so, you know, this can be, be hard maybe, Rhyen, for, for people to grasp that Christians do have a biblical standard and that we can and must engage in government without necessarily compromising the, the ability to Call out, behaviors of candidates as biblically wrong or, or even sinful. And I think if we don't do that for sake of the. The party politics are saying, well, there are bigger issues out there.
The Normalization of Vulgarity in Politics and the Need for Consistency in Standards
And, and of course, you can always turn to something and say, well, this is the bigger, more pressing thing. But if we fail to be stewards of culture, and that includes language, that includes what's normalized, even within the political party that's supposed to represent conservatism and, Christian values, then it becomes almost this tacit acknowledgment that we are assenting to normalizing that behavior. And I really wonder where we are headed in the political environment in a post Trump era, because what I see having happened, but especially with the rise of social media, I mean, the rise of anybody able to be platformed, maybe gatekeeping to some level and some extent was a good thing, that, that in this Trump era that's lasted, you know, over 10 years now, that we have so normalized this kind of vulgarity in politics that it's going to be very difficult for Christ to say in perhaps for future candidates, well, that's no longer acceptable. Like, we allowed it for Trump, but it's not acceptable. And I think that's why consistency mattered. It's not for me personally. It's not that I ever liked it or quote, unquote, allowed it or that it didn't bother me from Trump. It was that he was and still is, you know, the best president, to vote for. And so, but, but I never confused the two. And I think that standard and holding that standard is going to be important in a post Trump world.
Eternal Vigilance and the Christian Mission in Advancing God's Kingdom Amidst Political Change
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think, I think it's one of those things that there's a vigilance that Christians should have. There's a, there's an eternal vigilance. I mean, as long as we have breath, as long as we have life, we need to stand, you know, as a witness for the gospel of Jesus Christ, for a kingdom, that is eternal, that will not perish or fade away. we are here to advance the kingdom of God on earth. We have a mission and a calling, as Christians, and so that long outlives any kind of political leader. Political reign. You know, you go back to first century, there are so many examples of, times in which people were living in the Roman Empire under the rule and reign of various emperors. Some were, a little bit more apathetic, not friendly towards Christianity, meaning that they left Christians alone, others absolutely persecuted Christians. And under their reign, there was a great, A, great persecution in which people were arrested, put on trial, they were crucified, some were thrown in the arena to the lions, and there was all kinds of bloodshed. And yet, the church continued to grow. The church continued to have an impact, obviously, on, the spiritual condition of the empire. But then culturally, it had an impact leading all the way up until, you know, the reign of Constantine, where the Edict of Milan was issued and persecution was officially ended in the Empire and Christianity became the official religion. I say all that to say that, we're not done having an influence on this nation. And even the kinds of political leaders, that ascend, you know, sort of the, sort of the political electorate and getting into places where they become nominees and they run for office, whether it be in a local congressional district or the Senate or even the White House.
Historical Context of Presidential Language and Avoiding False Equivocation on Policy vs. Rhetoric
And so it'll be interesting to see, especially for, conservative voters, what does that look like in a post Trump era, who will come up and I'll just say this. you know, reading historically past US Presidents, you know, the kinds of, language that presidents have used, you have people like Lyndon Baines Johnson or Harry S. Truman, who did not use, inside church language when they were in office. The difference, I think today is how viral content, has become, how a live event can be broadcast anywhere it can be streamed. People are getting it on their phones. So we firsthand have, all kinds of clips now of modern political figures, that, you know, have said things and now everyone sees it and hears it. And so I think that is something that is very, very new. but it is not the first time that a US President has used coarse language, while in office. And so that's that. You know, that is not a new standard, I think, even for this president. but most important is going back to what was originally discussed, which is this kind of false equivocation to say the language itself is put on an equal playing field to the profane policies.
Analyzing Ballot Issues: Defending Life and Marriage Versus Profane Policies
We have to remind each other of that in understanding that, look, the issues that are on these ballots, in many states across the country cannot be compared. One side wants to defend life, the other side wants to end life. one side wants to, defend marriage and the biblical definition of marriage. not all candidates are doing this, but some do and have made it a very central part of their running for office. And others, want to continue with this. Gay mirage, you know, want to continue with transgenderism and many of these other profane policies. And so we as Christians do not want to morally equivocate those things between rhetoric and real policy. And that's. And I think that's. I think many mature Christians recognize that, have already done that, have shown that, demonstrably with their vote.
The Christian Citizen's Responsibility to Vote and God's Use of Non-Believers for His Purposes
And I would say. And this is the thing that we talk about often every time an election comes up, we're reminded of the number of evangelical Christians, or at least claim to be evangelical Christians, who attend church regularly, who are not registered to vote, who have not voted in an election. And, some of those folks, it could very well be that they are looking at this through an impossible standard, not fully understanding what is the role of citizen, to be a biblical citizen. What is my responsibility? Do I have a responsibility to vote? I would say absolutely, yes, you do. especially in a Republican government, you know, we have a Republican democracy. And so in this government, God, of course, is sovereign. And that responsibility has been delegated to citizens who elect representatives. You do this all the time so well on your show. But reminding Christians that because I have that responsibility, that means that mean words, that vulgar and coarse jesting, as offensive as it may be to God and to me, it does not absolve me of the responsibility of ultimately making a determination for the future of the country when it comes to political leadership, I have to do that. and so we go back to the Old Testament examples. We go back to the examples of kings in the Old Testament, and we even come to people like Cyrus, who is called the Lord's Anointed, who helped Israel build their temple, who helped them, helped restore the exiles back to their homeland. If God can call somebody like Cyrus his anointed, meaning that God had appointed him for that specific hour carrying almost a Messianic kind of title. this is not a king who was a believer. This is not a king who is accounted among the redeemed. He was not under the covenant of Abraham, and yet God picked him, to restore the fortunes of Israel, to bring about his promises. He had a tremendous role to play in the redemption of Israel. And so this is not unprecedented for Christians even now in the United States. Looking at people on the ballot, you may have, in many cases, two non Christians, and yet one is going to support policies that are far more Christian than the other.
Balancing Cultural Influence and Political Engagement: The Dual Role of the Church and Christians
Yes, we need to support the Christian policies in order to preserve freedom in this country. So it never result absolves us of a responsibility of making that choice. And that's what I would encourage people to do. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Jenna Ellis Absolutely. And so well said. And I think that, you know, there's this sometimes this, this false dichotomy between saying, you know, Christians want to influence the culture for biblical truth. Is our greatest opportunity found in political power or in the faithfulness of the church to its primary mission? Well, both are true, and they're just different spheres of government. The church needs to remain focused on its primary mission, but that's also to influence the culture and individuals for truth of the Lord. And at the same time, in the political space, we need to have legitimacy in government. Christians have to be involved. And Rhyen, I really appreciate it. Follow him on X and I will see you guys tomorrow. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion.
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Thanking Our Sponsor Preborn and Discussing the Foundation of Truth in the U.S. Constitution
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Jenna Ellis Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Rad
Jenna Ellis I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you. And God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.
Jenna Ellis This is Jenna Ellis in the Morning.
Examining the Importance of Voting, Preserving America, and the Plight of Christians Globally
Jenna Ellis Good morning. It is Wednesday, October 28, and we are just days ahead of the midterm election. And so a lot of the president's, cabinet members and of course, his campaign staff and himself personally are going around the country speaking for various candidates and various issues. And RFK Jr. Is actually doing, one of the best jobs, I think, of highlighting what is so important about voting in not just this election, but maintaining an understanding and awareness of actually what it means to preserve America. And he was talking at the, Kent gop, and I think this was from yesterday. I don't have a date on it specifically, but he's speaking recently and talking about Christians being wiped out in the Middle east, saying there were millions and millions of Christians. Egypt was a Christian country, Libya was a Christian country, Iraq was a Christian country. The Christians have been expelled. These are the genocides. And he goes on, you know, to talk about why it's so important that worldview matters and that we understand, when the Christians leave, things get worse. And when the Christians are expelled and exterminated, things get worse. And our good friend Joel Rosenberg, also posted an article Yesterday from the BBC news that was reporting on more than 60 Christians were killed in Ethiopia massacre, a church official says, and his response was, why isn't the world outraged about this? Christians are being targeted by radical extremists around the globe. And our good friend Steve Dace, said, you know, again, RFK Jr. Is dropping knowledge that evangelical pastors en masse have refused for the last decades. And Steve joins us now.
Differentiating Political Parties and the Necessity of a Biblical Worldview in Governance
And Steve, I think this is so important and timely, especially ahead of the midterms. Because this isn't just about, you know, two American political parties that maybe nostalgically we can look back and say, all right, if we're on the political spectrum, you know, the Republicans are a little right of center, maybe a lot right of center, and the Democrats are maybe a little bit left of center. They want bigger government. They think government can solve the problems. Republicans are more for limited government and saying, you should have freedom. But in general, you know, these are just policy debates. But everybody is pro, America in the sense that we are founded as a Christian country, respecting that our law is based on a biblical worldview of the definition, the biblical definition of truth versus evil and, and morality. That's no longer the case. And when RFK Jr. Is bringing this up, I. I'm reminded that this is the message that the GOP at large, and also especially Christian pastors and need to be pressing, not just ahead of the midterms, but in general. Good morning.
The Decline of Religious Influence in West Michigan and Observations from College Towns
Steve Deace Good morning, Jenna. Totally agree. And I, you know, Kent County, Michigan, I grew up there, when I was growing up in Kent and Ottawa counties or Twin counties in West Michigan. When I was growing up there, those were the two, per capita, the two most churched counties in America. And that's not the case there anymore, because, there hasn't been preaching there for the last. Rob Bell's infamous heretical church came out of Kent County, Michigan. so, you know, there hasn't been preaching like that in that area of the country, in the last 20, 30 years en masse. Which is why, you know, a guy who's most of his life has been kind of a nominal Catholic and left of center, but has been an earnest truth seeker. You know, he's not dogmatic about, you know, progressive, ah, beliefs. he would have fallen into the camp of the kind of Democrat you just described. this is why he's able to just look objectively at history and just call balls and strikes, because he's also not concerned about being called a racist. I don't know how being critical of someone's religion makes you a racist, but here we are, those sorts of things that in the last generation of the right, everything was done to avoid being called these names by people who hate us. He just isn't stigmatized, by any of that. And so this is just common sense to him. But, you know, I was just in Detroit on the other side of the state, this weekend, for football was all over Anne Arbor, which is really the Anne Arbor. East Lansing, Mount Pleasant, Kalamazoo. Those are the major college towns in Michigan that delivered the nomination for El Said way closer than the polls in the primary. claimed and EL Said beat the Whitmer machine. They did not want him to be the Senate nominee. Many there was not as much El Said signage in Anne Arbor as I anticipated there was going to be.
Critiquing Pastors' Lack of Engagement and the Historical Consequences of Christian Exodus
I mean, I mean Anne Arbor is one of the most left wing college towns in America. I anticipated. I mean Anne Arbor. So left wing, one of my best buddies is the big defense attorney in town. Jenna. He's the big Republican. That tells you how left wing Anne Arbor is. The big defense attorney in town is the right winger. And I mean I expected to see you know, white lesbian grad student, you know, with, with graduate degrees at Michigan out there with prayer mats to Mecca in the afternoon. But I didn't quite see that. but you know, this is, this is, this is why I changed my schedule at the last minute at the request of TBUSA Faith to fly into Detroit on the way to another speaking engagement to address a packed room of pastors there about a month ago. because they haven't done their job. And, and because they haven't done their job, a lot of our people, you know, the prophet Hosea says, my, my people perish for a lack of knowledge. A lot of our people don't truly understand what RFK Jr. Is saying there. This was common sense and known, in every era of the Western church from the Crusades till now. that this, this is what happens when Islam takes over. And this is how you can defeat a lot of the grapers. A lot of your gripers are just young men who want this era of cowardice to end. But they don't really have a history or theology. They claim to be based, but they're not really based in anything or based on anyone. and so you can easily defeat their arguments by just by pointing out the things that RFK Jr. Said, which is. Well, I mean we're, I mean let's take it even further. The book of Revelation begins with letters to seven churches. They're located in a place called Asia Minor. That place is modern day Turkey. Where those churches go. Can you go visit them today? Where are they now? Oh, they're gone. Well how, what happened?
Understanding Church History and the Need for Active Discipleship in a Secular World
Did they lose a ballot referendum and they were just voted out? I mean what occurred there and then, if that's the case, then why is a country like Turkey even in NATO then? I think these are the kinds of questions that the church took its discipleship responsibility seriously and it answered as applications of the gospel, as applications of the teachings of the word of God, not just teaching. The gospel is kind of this Tim Keller third way isolated form of fire insurance, but it never enter for your eternal soul, which it is, but it never intersects whatsoever with the evils in the world or the kingdoms of this world. and so it's just kind of this neutral, aesthetically, you know, hermetically sealed property, of salvation. And so when you teach that sort of doctrine, of none confrontation for a generation, you end up with the camel's nose under the tent, pardon the pun, and you end up cornered, as we are right now. And the only, when you get cornered, the only way out is to fight your way out. What's it going to take to fight our way out? You know, I was reading this morning about I think it's a community in Texas that refused, took over their city council and everything, refused to let Muslims come in, and get a permit to demolish your home and build a mosque. That's what it's going to take.
The Fight Against the Slow Takeover of Islam and the GOP's Hesitation to Address It
You're going to have to fight?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, 100%. I mean, and this is the issue, I think that people like you and I and others who like RFK who are raising these concerns, understand. And yet people like El Said who think America is the evil one for you know, suggesting that somehow we're a Christian nation and not wanting all of the importation of of Islamists. We don't want to see things like what's happening in Dearborn, Michigan. We don't want to see what things that are happening, like what almost happened in Texas with catering, you know, to the Muslims and their prayer and foot washing stations in the airport. I mean we're the ones who are saying that, you know, all of these things are a slow takeover and then the Christians eventually would be expelled or exterminated out of America. I mean that's the logical conclusion of history if, if we continue to allow this to happen. And we need to say that honestly. But few people in the GOP are willing to say that and oddly few Christians are willing to say that because somehow we have taken this notion of Christianity being this, you know, softler, gentler, Christian, Christian view, that says that somehow being a good Christian is accepting the secular notion of religious freedom. Which means that we have to somehow say that all religions are equally viable in the United States. And whatever you profess to believe, you can also, build your law and your society and your home life and everything around that, with no problems. And yes, we can all coexist peacefully and we are somehow just completely ignoring all of this. And, and why do you think that the GOP isn't running on these types of messages?
RFK Jr. as a GOP Campaigner and the Church's Role in Shaping Political Discourse
I mean, I think RFK right now is one of the most brilliant, campaigners for the GOP because he's raising these types of issues.
Steve Deace Because no political party is ever going to be out ahead of the church. I mean, it's always going to be downstream from church. And I think, you know, for some of our friends who like to sit online and nitpick, you know, as if we're still in the midst of a Trump DeSantis primary in the spring of 23, and nitpick, absolutely everything that Trump does or says, they have it backwards. It's not. I can't believe that the last hero we have left standing between us, and, what's left of Western civilization and the spirit of the age is this, you know, multiple divorced playboy who's still at age 78, still wants to drop four letter bombs at his political rallies like he's doing an opening monologue on snl. Tisk, Tisk, Tisk. You have it backwards. It's your. The question really is, what. What was the condition of the church? What was the condition of the church that God said? You know what I mean? I mean, this is probably who we're going to have to send right here. This guy. We're gonna probably to send this guy I'm, gonna have. Huh? This is the guy they're gonna have. They were to send them to have them shoot at him because you're m. Why? Because most of your path pastors aren't worthy of being shot.
The Importance of Courageous Pastors and the Downstream Effects of a Weakened Church
Why was Charlie shot? You know, what was the topic of the previous pastor summit earlier this year? Right. For tpusa. The title of my talk was to the pastors in that room, be worthy of the bullet that Charlie Kerr took for you. Why did they shoot at Charlie and not most of your pastors? Because they're not worthy of being shot at. They're not a threat. Biggest problem this country has is we don't have enough pastors worthy of being shot or jailed. That's the biggest problem we have. You're literally not going to fix anything else until you fix that. Because this is the plumb line of a culture right here. And we just took that off for a generation. For, ah, a generation. It was more important to build your brand than to build a kingdom. And so here we are. And all of what you're lamenting is all downstream from that. Without the Church, none of, none of the things we've, we've. And you know this, I know you know this, so I'm, I'm preaching to the choir here. But without the Church, none of the things we hold sacred, we hold as norms, as Americans, or throughout the history of the west, none of those things are possible.
Analyzing the Decline of Christianity in Western Europe and its Impact on Society
Why, why is what's happening in Western Europe happening right now? Because 45 of France identifies as Catholic. Only 5% of the French actually go to Mass on a regular basis. Meaning a month, once a month or more. I mean, I don't know how much you know, your audience knows about Catholic theology, but liturgy is Catholic theology and Catholicism, like you, you can't be a Catholic without participating in the liturgy. That's the theology. So you can claim to be Catholic all you want, but if you're not showing up to perform the sacraments and to be, and showing up to Mass, you're just a Catholic in name only. Less than 1. About 1 1/2% of France is evangelical. So that's how you're here. That's why what's happening in France is happening. The same thing's happening. That's the same reason things are happening in the UK and everywhere else. We used to have popes that earned saint status by declaring literal holy war against Muslim invaders and praying, ah, and ordering the, the, the parishioners around the world to say Hail Marys and rosaries, for God to grant them victory in war. We now have a Pope who, when a bunch of Christians are slaughtered in Jordan, supposedly the most moderate, of Arab nations, where by the way, it's illegal to proselytize. If you scroll down, you can tell the the quote, anti Zionist, that if they go down the streets of Jordan and scream out Christ is King, they're all going to get arrested if not killed. And that's Jordan, by the way. So, his response to a slaughtering of Christians in Jordan is I'm going to pray for interfaith dialogue and peace among religions. That's why the church is at the fault line of all of this. And therefore it's the solution to all of this.
The Republican Party's Strength Compared to the Current State of the Western Christian Church
I would argue even in its current state, the Republican Party, and I think, you know, Jenna, I am not shy about airing my criticisms over the course of my career at the Republican Party. So the fact that I'm about to say what I'm about to say, this is a Nixon and, the only nation could go to China moment. Okay? I'm not on the GOP team, GOP speaker circuit. I don't get the, I don't go on the calls and get the talking points and then send out to all of you guys and pretend they're my actual thoughts. I don't do any of that. So keep that in mind when I, when you hear me say what I'm going to say next. The Republican Party, even in its current state, is a more formidable foe for the spirit of the age than collectively the Christian church in the west and in America is at the moment. And that's the answer to every question you're going to ask.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and that's truly the problem.
Trump's Popularity, Pastors' Lack of Courage, and Spiritual Battles in the Political Realm
And you and I have talked about, extensively that pastors need to have courage and rise up with courage. And the interesting thing is this is why Trump has been so popular, because he was simply someone who, who rose up with courage, spoke the truth and was willing to fight. Right. And these pastors, you know, are saying, well, if I, you know, stand up and I say anything controversial, then I'm going to lose half my audience. And they're timid and they're all, you know, all of these things. And it's self defeating. Because you wonder why Trump has more loyalty among his base than, you know, the Christians in, in some ways have to. The truth is because he is being a leader. I mean, he can go out and say these four letter words. He can, you know, say some things this week, you know, with respect to some female body parts and male as well, that, you know, I think is, is just shameful, and really not get a lot of criticism for that. And for the people who are criticizing, it's like, well, that's Trump and, you know, he gets the pass on this. The reason for it ultimately is because people see the leader and they want to follow the, the leader that is standing up with courage, that is willing to be shot at and continue. And pastors, I think, just don't understand that, that they're looking at all of the metrics of, you know, let's build the best playground for kids and let's, you know, have all the secular music in the lobbies and let's try to get everybody in the doors. And then they don't stand up for anything. And they wonder why people Leave. And they don't look at pastors as cultural and truth telling leaders, because they're not. They're, they're just simply not leaders.
Steve Deace I mean, in the time of the judges, you end up with heroes like Samson. And that's a very apt description for Trump. And I think, you know, ultimately, pastors have to see that these, these things that are manifesting politically are really battles of spiritual dominion playing out into the seen realm. I mean, what, what, what? Why did God send the specific 10 plagues against Egypt that he did? Because those were specific judgments against every form of pagan filth, occultic ritual, and demonic worship that was happening within that kingdom. He understood what God was saying, hey, what's playing out here above ground politically between my covenant people and this kingdom is really a battle of spiritual dominion. And so he is claiming his dominion as God. He's claiming his dominion, his superiority over these demonic forces with these judgments. When we do things like put foot washing basins in airports, in places like Texas, of all, of all things, that is a statement of spiritual acquiescence. That is saying, hey, the dominion of the enemy reigns here. We placated here, we allow it here, and that's what's really occurring. These aren't just mere policies.
Jenna Ellis We've got to, we got to take a break here. Let's step up, continue the fight. Steve, appreciate it. We'll be right back with more foreign.
Evaluating Trump's Support Among Evangelicals Amidst Concerns About Rhetoric and Policy
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Jenna Ellis welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Well, a new report is raising questions about whether President Trump's longstanding support among evangelical Christians is beginning to weaken as we approach the midterm elections. This comes from PBS NewsHour. So take that for what it's worth. But for more than a decade, ah, white evangelical voters have been among Trump's most reliable supporters. And according to, according to this new poll, 66% of that population still approve of Trump's job performance. It's much higher, obviously, than the overall, performance review, while nearly 3/4 say they intend to support Republicans in congressional elections. But there are some signs, according to this report, of declining enthusiasm. Trump's approval rating among voters who supported him generally in, 2024, has dropped 12 points. So since the beginning of his second term. And other polling indicates declining, support among younger voters and Latinos. The PBS report examines the intersection of faith and politics, highlighting how evangelical voters have historically prioritized issues like abortion, religious liberty, traditional values, while also raising questions about Trump's rhetoric, personal conduct, and whether Christians should tie their political identity so closely to any one political leader. So the report also, features a South Carolina pastor who's encouraging his congregation to approach elections through a biblical lens without endorsing a particular candidate or political party, likely because he is a, pastor and being careful along those lines. But that raises a much broader question. Are evangelical Christians actually reconsidering our political priorities, or are we just seeing a distinction between support for President Trump personally and some rightful criticism and support for the conservative policies that have generally always historically motivated Christian voters? Well, let's welcome in Rhyen Helfenbein, who is the Vice President of Communications and Public Engagement at Liberty University and the founding director of executive director of the Standing for Freedom Center. So, Rhyen, you know, I think that's, That's a valid distinction, to say, you know, that Christians should always support the policies and the principles because those are based on truth and grounded in scripture. And, we can personally support candidates, when they do things that are good, but we also can rightly critique them or criticize, when perhaps, you know, they're.
Forming Christian Conscience Through Scripture and Triaging Concerns Against Policy and Life Issues
They're not doing things in line with scriptural principles.
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, I go back to Carl F.H. henry's uneasy conscience of the Modern Fundamentalist. I mean, that's a work that's very old, mid 20th century now, back in the 1900s. But you think about, how Christians, ultimately, how we form our consciences. It's by the word of God, and we don't have strict adherence or allegiance to any one person, no matter how great they might be. It's always based on principle. Let me say this, though, that, Trump still has overwhelming support among evangelicals. I do think that polls sometimes reveal either, depending on how they're gathered, either a fatigue. You know, there's sometimes when it's a. It's an election year where he's not on the ballot. people are looking at these elections and saying, look, if I'm going to vote in the midterms, the President's on the ballot. I'm not really thinking at this point about the Oval Office. I'm thinking about my state. I'm thinking about the ballot initiatives, whatever is on that ballot, I'm thinking about the future of the Senate or the House. and so a lot of the victories that came early, very early in 2025, the things that the President did in the Oval Office might not be top, of mind. And you know, you go back and you have to say, look, you know, the President's been doing this now since, I mean you could say all the way back in 2015. You know, he was elected in 2016, took office in 2017. But we've had, you know, almost 10, 11, 12 years of Trump. When you consider, conservatives, and who has been the leader, carrying the banner for Republicans, Trump has been carrying it a long time, so there could be a little fatigue. But just to remind listeners, this is the man who has been the most pro life Republican, the most pro life president, in the Roe era. he's the one who you know, basically blocked aid to abortion. When you think about the Mexico City policy, when you think about, you know, what he did, regarding the faith office, what he did regarding, the appointment of Supreme Court justices and then federal justices, in his first term especially, and then you think about his whole task force to remove anti Christian bias, you think about the 80 year old women that were jailed for praying outside of abortion clinic. I mean Trump has been one of the most, doggish supporters of Christians, of evangelicals in this country, compared to many other Republican GOP, candidates and even presidents who have been in an office. But I think the big thing among evangelicals, even still, and it will always be a thing, is yes, we're concerned about language, we're concerned about rhetoric, we're concerned about how people carry themselves in office. at the end of the day we triage those concerns against actual policies, actual things that affect people's lives. And yes, we always look at these things through a biblical lens, life being the leading issue. But we care about marriage, we care about the protection of children, we care about immigration and the rule of law, we care about the rise of Islam. These are all things that evangelicals are concerned about. And certainly Trump has done a lot, to carry the weight of these issues.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, yeah, you know, really well said. And I agree with you that the evangelicals and Christians should care about rhetoric. They should care about how a person and a candidate carries themselves. They should care about all of those things. And, and it's not a but or an or, it's an and. They should also triage that and look at who's actually on the ballot. I mean, this is always a closed universe situation where you only have the options you have. You don't have perfect candidates. And, I've always said that a vote for someone is not an endorsement of literally everything they stand for, everything they've said, or everything they're going to do in office, either. I mean, even though I voted for President Trump, I can still say, you know, I disagree with that policy, or I can question this, or if, you know, I didn't vote for Biden and I can say, you know, if there was anything that I liked about his presidency, I can't think of anything at the moment, but if there was anything that was good, I could also champion that. Right? So. So it doesn't, it doesn't mean that we can only like the people we vote for. Like, we're wearing, you know, a football team jersey, and we can only champion our team because we're on the team. I mean, our standard should be objective and it should be based on principle and the biblical worldview.
The Distraction of Rhetoric Versus Policy and the Difficulty of Criticizing Political Figures
but when, when Christians do critique, you know, some of the rhetoric, especially, this week coming from, you know, from President Trump, was just so unnecessary. A lot of these things that he's saying at these rallies, and it's. I think it's such a distraction instead of focusing on the actual policy issues. and if I say those things, you know, especially online or even here on air, I'll get emails from listeners, which I love hearing your opinions, and that's completely fine. But, you know, I often get the commentary like, oh, don't be a stick in the mud, or, oh, you know, that's Trump, and we knew this and, oh, just give him a pass. And it's almost like you can't criticize anything that he does anymore. because then it's viewed as, well, you're not helping the party or you're not helping the cause. and I don't think that that's the right way to respond to some of these things. what's your view, Rhyen?
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, I think.
Avoiding False Equivalency and Maintaining Nuanced Conversations in Politics as Christians
I think it's one of those things. It entirely, you know, when it, when we're having conversations among ourselves as believers. You know, I don't believe in moral equivocation. I don't believe in false equivocation. Where, so much of what happens in kind of the wokeification of the evangelical world over the, over the last decade, where, you know, people, I would say evangelicals in particular, were sort of kneecapping one another, with the idea of both sides have problems. You know, Jesus, is neither a donkey nor a Democrat. See, the left has its problems, the right has its problems. this guy says mean things, he tweets mean things, and it's not nice, it's not appropriate. and therefore, you know, we wrap it up that both Republicans and Democrats are almost similar, the same. And obviously you and I don't think that way. Many of the listeners listening to this program do not actually think that way. We know better because we're adults and we don't think like children. we understand that there are serious issues, facing the electorate, when it comes to life. Marriage, family, national security, economic concerns, all of that. There is no false or moral equivalency.
The Importance of Mature Conversations and Guardianship of Rhetoric in Political Discourse
And yet, at the same time, because we're adults, we can have nuanced conversations and say, you know, I am very much in support of so much of what, you know, President Trump is doing, so much of what Republicans are doing. And I can, I can have that nuanced conversation like walking and chewing gum at the same time and saying, but I want better, even better representation in terms of what is being said, how it's being communicated. you know, I'm a Christian. I'm concerned about vain talk. I'm concerned about coarse jesting and things that are not uplifting. That still matters. It's not like it doesn't matter. It certainly does matter. And, as Christians, we need to be the guardians of rhetoric and language. And so, yeah, it matters.
Comparing Candidates' Policies and Rhetoric Through a Biblical Lens, Not Just Political Affiliation
and at the same time, at the very same time, there are certain candidates for office right now who will not do any of those things. and it won't speak in any of those ways. I'll give you an example, like a Talarico. I've not heard anything like that coming from a James Tallarico. And yet he has suggested many profane things in terms of policy, when it comes to transitioning kids, when it comes to men and girls, locker rooms, or, you know, God being non binary, it's not a curse word, but it is definitely heretical. And it should offend us, in even greater ways than a coarse or vulgar word being delivered inappropriately. And yet at the same time, you think about what the policies mean, you know, even on the right, the right versus the left. And so, you know, we can do this as adults, we can do this as Christians. We can have those mature conversations, and we should, we should be doing That m. And yet also encouraging one another, to take a realist approach, to this election and elections to come. There will never be a perfect candidate on the ballot.
The Burden on Pastors and the Shrinking Public Square for Christian Influence
I don't even like the prospect of talking about the lesser of two evils because oftentimes when we say evil, we mean it in an abject sense. I would want to encourage people to look at the actual issues. Yes, I think that there are many policies that Democrats support that are objectively evil, full stop, that it is a no go. and again, that does not mean that I agree with everything that Republicans are doing. as you began talking about that South Carolina pastor, I understand the burden and the weight of what pastors have to deal with going into the pulpit every Sunday and not compromising, what their calling is. I mean, ultimately they're not called there, to conduct Barna surveys. They're not called there to get out the vote. Their primary calling is to preach and teach the word of God. But as the public square is shrinking when it comes to truth Christian influence, when it comes to moral sanity, even greater burdens are laid upon pastors to say and do the things that are not being done in public schools are not being done in the media. So pastors have a lot that they carry, and they do not want to compromise ultimately their calling, which is to preach and teach, the word of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Navigating a Post-Christian Society and Exercising Wise Voting as Christians
So, yeah, we are fast approaching a new era for many Americans. I think Europe has experienced this for a long time, because they live in a largely post Christian society. but we are, you know, fast approaching the same kind of cultural conditions that they have in those places. And I think that's why, Christians are having to grapple, with so many of these concerns.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, absolutely. Really well said, Rhyen. And we have to take a break here, but Rhyen Helfenbein is going to stick with us through the break. We're going to continue to talk about the midterms, the Christian approach. And I understand this is difficult. Right? I mean, it would be a lot easier to be a secular Christian or to not even be a Christian at all in the sense that, you know, you could participate in the vulgarity or you could, you could say, you know, well, I don't care and it doesn't matter. And, you know, you guys are just being the fuddy duddies or whatever by not, not being okay with some of this rhetoric. And that's not how Christians need to walk wisely and at the same time, we also need to be wise about how we exercise our vote, what things we talk about it. And Rhyen, you're absolutely right that it doesn't have to be necessarily a four letter word to be profane. A lot of these policies that the left candidates are supporting are absolutely profane. And that matters as well. We'll be right back.
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Christian Responsibility in Government: Upholding Standards Without Compromising Primary Mission
Jenna Ellis welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Welcome back. And I'm still here with my special guest, Rhyen Helfenbein, who's the vice president of communications at Liberty University and the founding executive director of the Standing for Freedom Center. We're talking about the midterms, we're talking about politics, civic engagement, and the responsibility of Christians to maintain a biblical standard. Not one that is, rooted in, tribalism and political identity or specific, specific loyalty to any one particular candidate. And also our duty, though in spite of maybe not having a, perfect candidate, we never will. Ah, our responsibility to exercise our duty to vote, and to vote for the best way that we can help protect and preserve America as a Christian nation and that our laws reflect the truth of God and legitimacy in government. And so, you know, this can be, be hard maybe, Rhyen, for, for people to grasp that Christians do have a biblical standard and that we can and must engage in government without necessarily compromising the, the ability to Call out, behaviors of candidates as biblically wrong or, or even sinful. And I think if we don't do that for sake of the. The party politics are saying, well, there are bigger issues out there.
The Normalization of Vulgarity in Politics and the Need for Consistency in Standards
And, and of course, you can always turn to something and say, well, this is the bigger, more pressing thing. But if we fail to be stewards of culture, and that includes language, that includes what's normalized, even within the political party that's supposed to represent conservatism and, Christian values, then it becomes almost this tacit acknowledgment that we are assenting to normalizing that behavior. And I really wonder where we are headed in the political environment in a post Trump era, because what I see having happened, but especially with the rise of social media, I mean, the rise of anybody able to be platformed, maybe gatekeeping to some level and some extent was a good thing, that, that in this Trump era that's lasted, you know, over 10 years now, that we have so normalized this kind of vulgarity in politics that it's going to be very difficult for Christ to say in perhaps for future candidates, well, that's no longer acceptable. Like, we allowed it for Trump, but it's not acceptable. And I think that's why consistency mattered. It's not for me personally. It's not that I ever liked it or quote, unquote, allowed it or that it didn't bother me from Trump. It was that he was and still is, you know, the best president, to vote for. And so, but, but I never confused the two. And I think that standard and holding that standard is going to be important in a post Trump world.
Eternal Vigilance and the Christian Mission in Advancing God's Kingdom Amidst Political Change
Ryan Helfenbein Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think, I think it's one of those things that there's a vigilance that Christians should have. There's a, there's an eternal vigilance. I mean, as long as we have breath, as long as we have life, we need to stand, you know, as a witness for the gospel of Jesus Christ, for a kingdom, that is eternal, that will not perish or fade away. we are here to advance the kingdom of God on earth. We have a mission and a calling, as Christians, and so that long outlives any kind of political leader. Political reign. You know, you go back to first century, there are so many examples of, times in which people were living in the Roman Empire under the rule and reign of various emperors. Some were, a little bit more apathetic, not friendly towards Christianity, meaning that they left Christians alone, others absolutely persecuted Christians. And under their reign, there was a great, A, great persecution in which people were arrested, put on trial, they were crucified, some were thrown in the arena to the lions, and there was all kinds of bloodshed. And yet, the church continued to grow. The church continued to have an impact, obviously, on, the spiritual condition of the empire. But then culturally, it had an impact leading all the way up until, you know, the reign of Constantine, where the Edict of Milan was issued and persecution was officially ended in the Empire and Christianity became the official religion. I say all that to say that, we're not done having an influence on this nation. And even the kinds of political leaders, that ascend, you know, sort of the, sort of the political electorate and getting into places where they become nominees and they run for office, whether it be in a local congressional district or the Senate or even the White House.
Historical Context of Presidential Language and Avoiding False Equivocation on Policy vs. Rhetoric
And so it'll be interesting to see, especially for, conservative voters, what does that look like in a post Trump era, who will come up and I'll just say this. you know, reading historically past US Presidents, you know, the kinds of, language that presidents have used, you have people like Lyndon Baines Johnson or Harry S. Truman, who did not use, inside church language when they were in office. The difference, I think today is how viral content, has become, how a live event can be broadcast anywhere it can be streamed. People are getting it on their phones. So we firsthand have, all kinds of clips now of modern political figures, that, you know, have said things and now everyone sees it and hears it. And so I think that is something that is very, very new. but it is not the first time that a US President has used coarse language, while in office. And so that's that. You know, that is not a new standard, I think, even for this president. but most important is going back to what was originally discussed, which is this kind of false equivocation to say the language itself is put on an equal playing field to the profane policies.
Analyzing Ballot Issues: Defending Life and Marriage Versus Profane Policies
We have to remind each other of that in understanding that, look, the issues that are on these ballots, in many states across the country cannot be compared. One side wants to defend life, the other side wants to end life. one side wants to, defend marriage and the biblical definition of marriage. not all candidates are doing this, but some do and have made it a very central part of their running for office. And others, want to continue with this. Gay mirage, you know, want to continue with transgenderism and many of these other profane policies. And so we as Christians do not want to morally equivocate those things between rhetoric and real policy. And that's. And I think that's. I think many mature Christians recognize that, have already done that, have shown that, demonstrably with their vote.
The Christian Citizen's Responsibility to Vote and God's Use of Non-Believers for His Purposes
And I would say. And this is the thing that we talk about often every time an election comes up, we're reminded of the number of evangelical Christians, or at least claim to be evangelical Christians, who attend church regularly, who are not registered to vote, who have not voted in an election. And, some of those folks, it could very well be that they are looking at this through an impossible standard, not fully understanding what is the role of citizen, to be a biblical citizen. What is my responsibility? Do I have a responsibility to vote? I would say absolutely, yes, you do. especially in a Republican government, you know, we have a Republican democracy. And so in this government, God, of course, is sovereign. And that responsibility has been delegated to citizens who elect representatives. You do this all the time so well on your show. But reminding Christians that because I have that responsibility, that means that mean words, that vulgar and coarse jesting, as offensive as it may be to God and to me, it does not absolve me of the responsibility of ultimately making a determination for the future of the country when it comes to political leadership, I have to do that. and so we go back to the Old Testament examples. We go back to the examples of kings in the Old Testament, and we even come to people like Cyrus, who is called the Lord's Anointed, who helped Israel build their temple, who helped them, helped restore the exiles back to their homeland. If God can call somebody like Cyrus his anointed, meaning that God had appointed him for that specific hour carrying almost a Messianic kind of title. this is not a king who was a believer. This is not a king who is accounted among the redeemed. He was not under the covenant of Abraham, and yet God picked him, to restore the fortunes of Israel, to bring about his promises. He had a tremendous role to play in the redemption of Israel. And so this is not unprecedented for Christians even now in the United States. Looking at people on the ballot, you may have, in many cases, two non Christians, and yet one is going to support policies that are far more Christian than the other.
Balancing Cultural Influence and Political Engagement: The Dual Role of the Church and Christians
Yes, we need to support the Christian policies in order to preserve freedom in this country. So it never result absolves us of a responsibility of making that choice. And that's what I would encourage people to do. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Jenna Ellis Absolutely. And so well said. And I think that, you know, there's this sometimes this, this false dichotomy between saying, you know, Christians want to influence the culture for biblical truth. Is our greatest opportunity found in political power or in the faithfulness of the church to its primary mission? Well, both are true, and they're just different spheres of government. The church needs to remain focused on its primary mission, but that's also to influence the culture and individuals for truth of the Lord. And at the same time, in the political space, we need to have legitimacy in government. Christians have to be involved. And Rhyen, I really appreciate it. Follow him on X and I will see you guys tomorrow. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion.
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As the midterm elections approach, Jenna Ellis and her guests examine the role of faith, Christian leadership, and biblical principles in American public life. Steve Deace argues that the church’s reluctance to engage cultural challenges has left a vacuum, while discussing reports of persecution against Christians around the world and why religious history matters to today’s debates.
Later, Liberty University’s Ryan Helfenbein joins ELsie to consider evangelical voters’ support for President Trump, how Christians can weigh a candidate’s policies alongside their rhetoric, and why voting remains a civic responsibility even when no candidate is perfect. The conversation urges listeners to think beyond political tribalism and consider how faith, conscience, and public leadership shape the future of the country.
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