Jenna Ellis: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But she can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside her. One ultrasound is just $28 and to donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com afr Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up, each of you and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Monday, October, 5th, and France is on fire with what started as teenagers protesting the conditions inside their schools, but has now exploded into something much bigger and more political in France. And so these demonstrations began in the Paris region in late September with high school students complaining about overcrowded classrooms, teacher shortages and long school days poor. But within days, those protests spread across the country. And what began as complaints about education has descended into, some places into outright rioting. And, there are some videos online that are so disturbing where, one person who's part of this riot, a woman, a French woman, you know, basically tells him to stop and he turns around and has a fiery blowtorch right in her face. it is, it is so hideous. And so the question is, what is driving this anymore? Because, it has gotten political. And the Macron government says the demonstrations have been infiltrated or even deliberately fueled by France's radical left. French intelligence is reportedly pointing to politicians associated with the hard left in France. And hanging over all of this as well is France's much larger debate over mass migration, integration and the enormous strain on its social institutions. And so, this has become about, migration and how migrants are now, also suggesting that because they don't have government funded access to education and welfare, now they're rioting. So Reuters now reports more than 5,000 have been arrested since last week and roughly 400 high schools closed as of Friday. So what, is actually going on here and how is France dealing with it? Let's welcome in Oren McIntyre, who is a host at the Blaze. And, Oren you know, the French officials are now saying that the movement has been infiltrated or exploited by far left activists. what do you think is actually going on here?
Auron MacIntyre : You know, it's always difficult to understand with the French because it feels like they're always rioting. Right. Like this is like the French national pastime in a way. rioting immigrants are integrating into the French culture in a way that, you know, otherwise wouldn't. But, the scenario is that France has been building up tension inside the country for a long time. There are a lot of demographic issues with France. again, you know, domestic stability has not always been their strong suit. But obviously they have this large migrant population like so many European countries, that's putting strain on their welfare system. Everything else make it very difficult for the native population to live as they did previously. And France has a very interesting approach in that they have basically done the civic nationalism thing where they said any of these people can become Frenchmen. You know, they're trying to integrate everybody in there. And, they've gone to the length of actually banning, all religious symbols, not just, you know, Islamic ones, but Christians ones as well, in, in public spaces, to, to a large extent to try to create this like, secular unity, unifying identity. And it just has not worked. And this has really continued to bubble up anyway. And so now you're seeing these riots go, you know, far beyond any kind of socioeconomic issue and bleed into issues of identity and immigration and migration. And, you know, it's very clear that France does not have a good answer to this question.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and, you know, religious, pluralism never really worked for any country, especially when you're dealing with, migrants that have such strong belief systems that ultimately aren't cohesive. I mean, we're seeing, the same thing in terms of that clash here in the United States as well, with the rise of the Muslim population, the rise of Sharia law and how that is a, obviously a clash, with our US Constitutional system. And you know, thankfully, we don't have at least yet the same types of, outright riots and some of these things that are going on in France. But, you know, we can still look at some of the instances and the clashes with ICE and you know, what's going on between Texas and Michigan and a whole host of places. And so, when we're talking about mass migration and this is, you know, this was a big issue in 2024, it should still be a big issue even, even more than aff, because I think they're actually hand in hand. what should America learn from what's going on in France? And the fact that when there's two, just two or more fundamentally incompatible belief systems, the law really cannot provide for two completely different civil, senses of justice and virtue. I mean, we're learning that in the United States as well.
Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, that's a great point. It's really important for people to grasp this. You know, a lot of Americans, because of kind of, we think of ourselves as a nation of law, law and order. You know, we want that objective law that's going to set the tone that everybody has to follow. But we have to remember that that law comes from our beliefs, comes from our understanding of the world. It comes from our Christian heritage and our English common law tradition. And so while it seems kind of neutral and obvious to us, it isn't. It's something that comes from the way we've lived our lives and the tradition that was passed down to us from our forefathers. And so when you try to impose that on other people, they don't feel that as neutral. This is why you always hear kind of leftists saying, you know, basically just having law and order is, you know, colonialism or white supremacy, because that's how it feels to them. For Arabs or for Muslims in general, Sharia law is what they believe in. And so even though France has in many ways tried to secularize these people, ban public displays of religion, that kind of thing, it hasn't worked. Because when you get enough Muslims in your population, they will impose that worldview. It will manifest itself no matter what you've banned. And so one lesson Americans need to take away from this is banning Sharia law is insufficient. I mean, I support it, sure, but, like, ultimately, it won't matter if you have enough Muslims here, because they will go through this. They will do a similar thing. You also have a lesson to learn in the young and what it means to demographically transform your population through migration. A lot of what's going on, the reason that a lot of this started in the youth, you know, protests over schooling and everything in France is increasingly. France's youth is foreign. You know, they're having fewer and fewer children. Their birth rate is going down. Like many European countries. I think they do better than some, but still not what it needs to be. And that means the younger population is increasingly a foreign population. I used to teach, high school in public school in the United States. And, you know, it wasn't that long ago, five years Ago I was teaching in schools. And you know, the population of young people there is increasingly that of immigrants. You don't have as many people in the United States who are Native Americans who are having children. And instead the children of the next generation tend to be those who are that of immigrants. And so you're going to see that kind of tension build up between the young and the older population, because in, many cases the young people don't have the same culture. They don't feel a duty to the older generation because it's not their generation that they're connected to. so there's just a lot of important lessons about the way that mass immigration changes your country that we can definitely pour it over to what's happening
Jenna Ellis: in the U.S. absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, you will live what you believe. And that's true for you and me. That's true for, immigrants or illegals that come to these, to the United States. That's true for these migrants in France. That's true even for the, for the French, people. And what you believe is your worldview and how you understand, the concepts even of society, legitimate government, the difference between right and wrong. I mean, so many people that I've seen, comment on, you know, some of the, the, the Muslim population and Sharia law and all of that in the United States have, have really, said well, you know, how bad could that be? I mean, just, you know, let them, adhere to their beliefs. Just like Christians want to go to church on Sunday. Well, the difference is that in that Western civilization was on a Judeo Christian ethic and our standards of justice and going to church on Sunday as, as, as Christians, as Protestants, as Catholics, that is not inconsistent with our understanding of justice. But in America, then when, if you have someone who comes in and doesn't want to assimilate into Western culture and they want to still adhere to Sharia law, that is fundamentally incompatible. So it's not actually a matter of religious freedom. It's a matter of saying what you believe is inherently inconsistent with living in our society. And if you refuse to assimilate, then we're going to have problems. I mean, but this is the same thing or an even some of the left's ideas that, that have on face nothing to do specifically with religion. But it always comes back to what they believe and their view of reality. I mean, when we look at the concepts of justice, like, even with what's, what's continued to be discussed in The Lindsey Clancy trial. I mean when you have a society where or even just a pocket of you know, some of these jurors in Massachusetts, in a blue state that can believe 11 to 1 that a woman who killed her three children doesn't have to be criminally responsible because of some, you know, mental health psychosis supposedly, and that she didn't get access to the health care she needed, instead of recognizing that punishment is what is required by a virtuous and just and Christian society, then you have a problem because that's just fundamentally incompatible with our American way of life. And so, when we look at France, they don't have this same, this same at least premise and moral foundation to adhere to. And they don't have as many people at least that are pushing for Western culture, Western civilization. So there's still hope and time in America. where do you see France going with this? I mean, are they on the brink of civil war?
Auron MacIntyre : You know, again, it's always so hard to say that because I've seen some wild footage, out of France. I mean we, a few years ago, I don't know if you remember, you know, we had ah, another uprising in the in the migrant population. And some guys were even firing, you know, RPGs, like fighting, you know, rocket propelled grenades and stuff, like really heavy weaponry. And so you thought at that point France had to, you know, go into something like a civil war. So I don't want to speculate that that's where they're heading because they always seem to be on that edge of complete social dysfunction and breakdown and yet somehow still kind of continue forward again. I don't know if it's just the rioting tradition in France and the kind of the level of civil unrest that they kind of put up with that they're used to. what I will say is I don't see in France a great binding identity that ultimately pulls them out of this. You know, the French, to their credit, have a, stronger, I think, national identity in some ways, than America does, just because of the age of the country. but they don't have an animating spiritual issue. You know, that's the real problem for France. And it used to be a deeply Catholic country and really ever since the French Revolution, it's kind of been an anti Catholic country in many ways. And so you have this just lack of undergirding faith that can rescue them from these invading other faiths. And so I think that that's the biggest Thing that America has an advantage over France is just we have a unifying faith that can push back against these because as you say, everyone has a religion. You know, there is no one without a religion. If just because your religion is, you know, progressive, feminist, secular humanism, it doesn't mean that you don't have a code by which you live. And if you don't have a true animating faith, you don't have something like a faith in Christ, push back against these other ancient and very real, you know, active face of the world like Islam, you will have a problem. And that's something that people need to remember in the United States, not just Islam. We also are seeing a lot of Hindu, migration in the United States and a lack of assimilation there where they're not converting into Christianity, they're keeping their religion, they're building temples here, they're building, you know, statues, monuments to foreign gods in the United States. And so just need to remember that it's always at some level a battle of faith.
Jenna Ellis: Yes. So well said. And we, got to take a break here. Orin McIntyre. and you know, we need to remember that, absolutely, that everyone has a faith, everyone has a worldview system. And when these fundamentally are clashing, then a society can no longer be cohesive. So we debate these issues of whether America is a place or an idea. And I would say, of course it is a place. You have to have a nation that has boundaries, has defined limits, has space in the physical world obviously, but then a worldview and a code of conduct in society, that idea of what exactly is legitimate in government that must govern society. And we have to have the same moral traditions, foundations and values to even articulate then what it is are the goals of society and what we protect, what we punish, what we prohibit, all of those things. So, really interesting. In France, we'll be keeping tabs on it. We'll be right back with more. M. Hi, I'm Jenna Ellis. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.netforward/give. That's afr.net give welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, there are still a, lot of concerns that HHS Under Secretary, Kennedy are discussing with the problems with organ donation and this concept of brain death and being too quick to procure, organs from patients who are actually still alive. And one just example of this case, that is now, being just highlighted in the news. And I think that there are, lawsuits around it. And also, Kentucky has passed a new law, the first in the nation, that allows families to stop the organ donation process when there are still signs of life. In response to this case in Kentucky, what happened, is that andy Hodge, a 38 year old police plumber, went into the emergency room in February 2021. So remember, this was during the height of all of the COVID nonsense, complaining of ongoing leg pain after surgery for a complicated fracture. And just a month later he was dead. So according to his sister, he was transferred to another hospital, where he was. He tested positive for. Positive for Covid. And instead of evaluating his leg pain, Andy was placed on the hospital's Cove protocols which included remdesivir and a 14 day prohibition of family visits. A few days later, Andy suffered a stroke and was placed on a ventilator. A few days after that, he was declared brain dead. But it turned out that the brain death test had been performed incorrectly. And, nevertheless, personnel from Kentucky Organ Donor affiliates, the Oregon procurement organization that was actually decertified this year by hhs, reviewed Andy's records and visited him at least three times during hospitalization. yet they eventually moved forward with this. So let's welcome in Dr. Heidi Klesig. And she, has posted this whole story on her X page. I'd include. I would encourage you to follow her on X at Heidi Klesig, MD. And this just seems like yet another example, Heidi, of, doctors who are so focused on organ donation that they are refusing to acknowledge the signs of life and the fact that this patient doesn't actually qualify for organ donation if they're not, in fact, deceased.
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Thank you, Jenna, so much for having me on the program. This, this is a very troubling case. You know, we all remember the COVID hysteria. And this is just one more example. This poor man's story was first, reported by Children's Health Defense in their, publication, the Defender. This man comes to the hospital with a painful leg and ends up being shunted down the Cove protocol, treated with remdesivir. Apparently they missed that. He may have had a blood clot in the leg that was giving this man the trouble. And then perhaps it sounds like this blood clot went to this man's brain, giving him a Stroke, getting him on a ventilator, getting an incorrect diagnosis of brain death. then the organ procurement people start, you know, swarming and circulating. There. There actually is, a hospital, policy nationwide for hospitals to be able to be qualified for receiving Medicare and Medicaid funding. They are required to notify organ procurement organizations whenever a patient might possibly become an organ donor. So there is a reporting requirement that this hospital followed, leading to this very questionable organ procurement organization in Kentucky. reviewing this man's medical records. I mean, there's a specific carve out under HIPAA that your personal health records can be reviewed by organ procurement people without your knowledge, when you might possibly be an organ donor. And visiting him, even at the bedside while he was at the hospital. Wow.
Jenna Ellis: And, and also, you have it in. In just the narrative of this story that when Andy's sister made arrangements for Andy's own orthopedic surgeon to come and see him, she was told that the ethics committee had decided to give him a do not resuscitate or DNR status that wouldn't even allow this evaluation. They even put a. A sign on the door prohibiting anyone from treating him. I mean, how is. How was that allowed over the family's wishes? And what is this, this, quote unquote ethics committee that gets to make these medical determinations without even consulting the family?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah, this was a real problem during the COVID hysteria. You know, the ethics committees are supposed to work with families, but, you know, during COVID there was a famous case here in my own state of Wisconsin, the case of Grace Shara. She was a young woman with down syndrome because her family had noticed during COVID that people who were put on a ventilator did worse, that use of ventilation with positive pressure was associated with poorer outcomes. They had asked her Grace's doctors not to use a ventilator. Then what happened was that doctor used that request to justify saying, well, I thought her family wanted her to be a do not resuscitate. And I'm wondering if that's what was happening in, this case with Andy as well. Andy, at the time it says in the Defender article, didn't want to be put on a ventilator because, again, it was becoming common knowledge that ventilation was a bad idea for Covid hospitalized patients. Was that also, in his case, leveraged into a, do not resuscitate order, which then put him on this downward spiral trajectory that ended in his death.
Jenna Ellis: Wow. And, you know, there are just so many stories that have come to light. since the Cove era about, the priorities of medical doctors instead of actually just treating the patient, and that their priority, was looking at, Covid. And at least in Andy's, case, it seems like they weren't even concerned about what he came in for originally. so now Kentucky has passed this new law, which allows families to stop the organ donation process when there are still signs of life. what has changed in terms of the protocols with that new law?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: So, this took effect in July of this past year, July 2026. The law states that during any organ donation, recovery, preservation, or procurement activity, A pause in procedure shall be initiated if any clinician or family member reports that there is a possible change in neurologic status, a possible indication of life, or any uncertainty regarding the accuracy of the death declaration. And interestingly, specifically lists what an indication of life might be. That, and this will certainly allow legal changes to a brain death declaration made according to the American academy of neurology brain death guideline. The way doctors diagnose brain death. Today, one of the specifically listed indications of life is spontaneous movement. So if you're moving, wouldn't any reasonable person think that you are still alive? But actually, under the American academy of neurologies brain death guidelines, they have a whole table of movements that are allowed, which they call as possibly reflexive. So if you lift an arm or a leg, you can still be declared brain dead. If you reach up towards your throat or endotracheal tube in what looks like the universal sign of choking, they can say, that's a reflex, too. So now, instead of having those movements, which certainly could be purposeful, written off as reflexes, families can say, no, wait a minute. I want to pause. The other thing is the law lists if your heart rate or blood pressure jump up now, you can call for a pause. And that's something that Andy's family saw when they would come to visit him and speak with him. His heart rate and blood pressure increased in response to their visit, so they could see he was responding to them. That would also allow a pause. You know, I think it's a great thing. Kentucky has this law, and I think it's a, a landmark for the rest of the states to follow.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And it just seems so wild to me that it's 20, 26 and we're just now getting this law passed in one state, and it's not just been the protocol throughout the United States. I mean, I think prior to Covid, if you had asked anyone, who you Know, like me, is not part of the medical profession, just has the general awareness of the Hippocratic oath and trusting, you know, of doctors and surgeons. I would have said, and I think a lot of people would have said that, you know, if there are any of these signs of life or there's any possibility of saving the actual patient, that's the first concern of doctors. But with so many now of these instances, in these cases, it seems like doctors have other priorities. And they did, especially during Cove So the liability shield, of course, that is, I think is just absolutely unethical and immoral, that Congress provided for, like the big drug companies and all of that for, the Cove shot. does any of that shield some of these practitioners who were. Who were actually implementing these processes in cases like this, or could they face civil or criminal liability?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah. And I, in the article that I read, and I've actually spoken to Andy Hodges, sister Ellie Hodge, hazy, she says she has been trying to get a, ah, lawyer to represent her and to challenge these things that happened to her brother. But she's run into a lot of difficulty. But instead of just, you know, giving up or getting bitter, she's actually started sort of an informal group that's, helping people whose loved ones were put on a hospital protocol. and this group is called Dead Serious. Kinda not. And she says that they are now active in 30 states. And she's developed a tool that if you can get your loved one's medical records, their tool analyzes the records, helps put them in a chronological order and can point out, you know, were there any red flags. So she's trying to help others instead of, you know, just giving up or becoming bitter about her brother's case. Wow.
Jenna Ellis: And, you know, good for her. And I cannot imagine being in that situation where, you know, you really wonder what. Whether there were other interventions or, you know, what could have gone differently. And so, you know, for other states who are looking, now to Kentucky as basically a model legislation, for this. Are there other states that are at least, their legislatures are considering similar legislation?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yes. I was just, down in Texas, speaking at Texas Right to Life's annual meeting. And I'm, told by my friends at Texas Right to Life that the Texas Republican, convention is considering, adding a platform, to allow families to contest this brain death diagnosis. Because again, brain death is sort of pseudoscience. These people certainly are not dead. They have a brain injury, a severe brain injury, but they have beating hearts absorb oxygen, they, exhale CO2, they have metabolism, they digest food, they, excrete waste. I mean, they've even. People with a brain death diagnosis have even delivered healthy babies. They are certainly not dead in any metaphysical sense. There's no evidence that their souls or spirits have departed. They're not biologically dead. They have all these bodily functions and vital signs, signs of life. And you know, under the law, they're actually often not even legally dead. Because the way the American Academy of Neurology brain death guideline diagnoses death does not comply with U.S. law under the Uniform Determination of Death act, because the AAN guideline allows people with ongoing brain function to be declared somehow dead. And our law says there must be the irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brainstem, for this diagnosis. So these people are not metaphysically, biologically, or even oftentimes legally dead. This is something we need to challenge.
Jenna Ellis: absolutely. And so for people who are listening, who may want to get involved on the legislative side, how can they do that? Is there, is this being, you know, coordinated, into. And people who may, you know, have a similar story, or for people who are listening who are concerned that, you know, this never happens to them or their loved ones, what steps should they be taking? perhaps, you know, just medically or with their, the medical power of attorney to make sure that some of this is, is actually documented, before a situation like this would have arisen.
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah. I recommend at this point that no one be a registered organ donor because once you have registered, your organs will be taken that registration, even though you signed up in the goodness of your heart, with no type of informed consent process, that registration is considered legally binding. So I would certainly not recommend anyone be a registered organ or tissue donor at this time. if you go to my website, which is respectforhumanlife uh.com and scroll down the homepage, you'll find we have a button on how to get off the donor list if you have registered in the past. And also there's some links there for a life affirming medical power of attorney documents so that if you are ever incapacitated in the hospital, your designee can keep the hospital fighting for protecting and preserving your life rather than putting you on this spiral toward organ donation. There's a nice link to a I refuse to donate wallet card that you can sign so that people are notified if you're ever brought to a hospital that you are not a registered organ donor and do not want to undergo testing for brain death. it is, too bad that so many states don't have legislation like this right now. NewSong Jersey is the only state in the United States that has a religious exemption to a brain death diagnosis. But if you remember during COVID you know, how they worried about how religious were you really, and they made a religious exemption a very difficult thing to achieve when you wanted to dispute taking a COVID injection. I think we should have an objection to a brain death diagnosis for any reason, not just a religious exemption, and in all states. And that's something I think is worth working toward.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Dr. Heidi Klesig, thank you so much for coming on. It's really important that we all understand our rights. We understand the reality of the situation in terms of, medical ethics, or perhaps we should say the lack of thereof. And it is really frustrating because in a lot of instances, I mean, organ donation can genuinely be life saving. But when, you are faced with this situation that it's much more about, these processes that are unethical, it's about tests that can even override the family's wishes, then that is a serious contemplation that, I agree, everyone should consider and, and perhaps remove yourself from the registry. And then, you know, if, if you're ever in a situation where you have to make these decisions, for a family member, you can address it at that time, but you won't be coerced. And that's the whole point of medical freedom, is that the government and the doctor shouldn't be able to coerce you. So again, Dr. Heidi Klesig, follow her on X. We will be right back with more. We're living in a defining moment in history. Today, a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has had the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At, preborn network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support, and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves, just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial 250 and say the keyword baby. That's 250 baby. Or [email protected] afr that's preborn.com afr Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, the Southern Baptist Convention president is calling on pastors to step up ahead of the midterm elections. Willie Rice says abortion, marriage, gender identity and immigration among some of the issues are all theological issues demanding Christian action. And he's obviously right. but he also says that while, some Christian leaders are advising against wading into politics from the pulpit, Rice is arguing that pastors have long played a key role in American politics and that members of the theological and political left have shown no, hesitation to mix religion and their politics. And evangelicals should not either, he says. should pastors engage in the political process? Absolutely they should, because there are many political issues that are at their home heart, theological issues and moral issues that strike at the very center of what we believe to be true and what we believe people need to know in order to flourish personally and as a culture. He's absolutely right. And I'm really grateful to see, that he is, he is stepping up and calling, Christians to step up. So let's welcome in Rhyen Helfenbein, who is the vice President of communications and public engagement at Liberty University. And, Rhyen, this seems like such an obvious message for 2026.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, it certainly does. And when you consider the significance of what this means, I mean, from the platform of the Southern Baptist Convention, you can go back decades and you look at men like Adrian Rogers or, men like W.A. criswell or Charles Stanley, and it would make sense, that men like that back then would, speak about these issues, but there has been kind of a drift, that has taken place over the past decade. And I am so grateful to see, a man like Willie Rice come in to get elected, as president down in Florida when the convention met there, and to be in a position now where he is speaking forthrightly with common sense, honestly, in the way that, most Southern Baptists would agree with and recognizing that we really do have a very important midterm election in our hands. And when you consider the states right now that are at play, there are several states in which the life is on the ballot. The life amendment, even in the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I reside, where Liberty University is, we have a life and marriage amendment on the ballot. And these are going to have huge, sweeping implications for our Constitution moving forward if they pass. And so, really, it's all hands on deck. I mean, every, church in the Commonwealth is being encouraged not just to vote Jenna, but to vote no. And we were telling people very specifically, like, if you're a Christian, if you're a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot vote yes on this life amendment. You cannot vote yes on this marriage amendment. You must vote no. and so we're very, very clear on that. but I think it is so helpful to have, somebody like Willie Rice as the president of the convention speaking on things that, honestly, 20 and 30 and 40 years ago, we would have expected from the Southern Baptist Convention. And now it looks like it's back again, which is awesome.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, that is absolutely awesome. and I think that, Willie Rice is right, that the left has absolutely no hesitation in mixing their religion and politics. Certainly, you know, Muslims don't. Certainly everybody else who mixes, you know, their worldview into politics, including even people who, who profess to be, you know, the secular humanist atheists, will. They still have a view of the world, and they still have a view of right and wrong and what society should criminalize versus not. I mean, all of these things go into a person's, foundational view and belief system. And so somehow it's always only the Christians that we're not allowed to bring our beliefs into society. We have to leave them at the threshold of our churches and only maybe whisper about them within the congregation. And, you know, how dare we expect, society to actually live up to any standard of biblical morality. So when it comes to just, for example, this, this race between Ken Paxton and James Talarico, I think this is one of the best examples currently of how Christians can see how the left is. and Talarico is, you know, using his profession, I would say blaspheming of Christianity to try to advance his campaign. And Ken Paxton, meanwhile, has an excellent record of, actual conservative policies and action. But there are some Christians in Texas who are saying, well, I could never vote for Paxton because, you know, he's. He's divorced or he, you know, it's some of his personal complications where, you know, that. That if you just look at who these two individuals would be in elected office, I personally see absolutely, a. A completely 100% difference between the the values and the belief system that Talarico would bring versus a Ken Paxton. And it's no question, if I was in Texas, I'd be voting for Ken Paxton.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, it's well stated. There is a, there is something that is, you know, kind of looming in the evangelical world and has been for a while. And you know, there's books out that are about it now, written by conservatives, which is this idea of loser theology being beautiful losers. And what that means is, is that when it comes to existential threats, when it comes to sometimes even political races like this, we have to recognize that there is absolutely, there's God's moral law. And that is always true no matter what time it is, no matter where we are in civilization. but we also have to recognize that, when it comes to elections, what you're voting for, also has, implications for policy for people, for who stands in office and what they do. And sadly Jenna, I think many people have lost the plot. They've kind of forgotten about what these elections do and don't determine. And when you consider what's happening right now in Texas, when you consider a DSA style candidate, a democratic socialist, somebody who would be supportive of those kinds of measures, or, you know, men, and women's locker room, or you know, trans surgeries for minors, when you consider how egregious that might be, the left has no problem pushing on the right. Oh, but listen, guys, at the end of the day, you can't vote for this candidate because remember, remember who you are. You wouldn't support somebody who's ever gotten a divorce. You wouldn't support somebody, who has done X, Y or Z. And this is the Saul Alinsky tactic of making your enemy play by their own rules. And I would want to encourage evangelicals to think wisely, to understand the purpose of an election. when you think about who you're putting in that seat of representative government or seat of power, recognizing what they're going to do once they're in that position. And I abhor loser theology, but I abhor the idea that there is this idea that we just. Basically the only purpose of your principles is to make sure that you lose and you lose spectacularly every single election. and sadly that has been put into play, for many years now. And I think there are some evangelicals, that don't vote. I think there's others that have been encouraged to vote third way or third party, largely because they've applied those kinds of principles, and to the detriment, I think, ultimately of our republic.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. So well said. And even just yesterday, in the context of the California gubernatorial election, and again, you know, here are two candidates with two totally different views of reality. You have Becerra on one hand, who, you know, was at the forefront of the, the church closures and all of the COVID nonsense and the Biden administration did, you know, just utterly horrible policy. And then you have Steve Hilton, who would actually transform California for the better. And there was, you know, some, some person who's doesn't even have a name on X that responded to a video from our good friend Jack Hibbs saying, my wife and I will not be voting for Steve Hilton. We will be writing on the ballot God Almighty. And I responded to that. And I mean, I don't always respond to, you know, just these random commenters, but that one made me so mad. And I said, you might think this is spiritually superior, but God Almighty tells you to be a good citizen and to steward his blessings. Read Romans. I mean, just how ridiculous can people be to say, you know, I'm not going to actually vote for literally the candidate on the ballot. I mean, Jesus is not running you guys. We are not also voting for a pastor. This is something where it's always a closed universe situation. You know, here in my home state of Florida for governor, I didn't support personally, Byron Donald's in the primary, but he's the nominee. And is he going to be better than allowing Florida to go, you know, backward and have the first, Democrat governor since I think the 70s. I mean, it's just a no brainer here. And yet you have these some Christians who somehow piously think that it's more spiritual to not deign to vote for a Republican who might have some perceived flaws.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said and there's a lot of foolishness in what I call evangelical gnosticism. You know, we live in reality. Jesus, gave us the Great Commission. he has us on earth. but part of what we're to do as Christians is to, to do his will. we pray in the Lord's Prayer. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We're commanded to occupy until he returns. we have to recognize though that Jesus Christ, who has an ultimate plan for, the end of mankind and for his return, he also lives in reality and he recognizes there's a stewardship. And he is he is putting on us this stewardship, the blessing of what it is to be a Christian living in the United States. We do not live in disembodied reality. we have a home, many of us, whether we rent or whether we pay a mortgage, we pay taxes, we live in a municipality or a state. And when we vote it's going to have an outcome. And when people write in just some random name no, that is not going to have any bearing on the outcome of an election. Those votes will get counted but ultimately tossed because it's a two party system. And so people need to wake up. I mean, I think this gnostic notion of the spiritual accounts for everything, but physical reality counts for nothing. I think has posed a lot of Christians. I think there are some who are so pietistic they do not recognize reality that is right in front of their face.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, there are a lot of Calvary Chapel pastors and of course, you know, regular listeners know that was the the non denomination that I grew up in and still absolutely love Calvary Chapels. And so many of their pastors used to say, you can't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good. And I think that applies to how we steward our votes and how we engage in politics, here in America because we've been given such a great blessing of liberty that we can select and prefer who governs us and our leaders. I mean so many people across world history had absolutely no say in who governed them, who imposed the laws. they didn't even have a forum for redress of grievances. I mean we can look at, you know, all of the civil civilizations across world history and say, truly, this is one of the primary reasons that America is so great that we confine our civil government to consent of the people and to this recognition that we are under God's ultimate authority. But if we're going to preserve that in this country, we have to steward that. And we can't just benefit from the blessings of liberty, but then not engage and not actively work ourselves to protect that. So you know, if evangelicals actually voted in every single election and every, you know, state and ballot that we could, that would be transformative in this country. what do you think, Rhyen, it will take to have pastors engage this, you know, for the next few weeks, four weeks until the midterms and then beyond, to, to truly tell their congregations, you know, this is incredibly important and this is a part of the Christian life.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, I think, I think there's a, there's a short term and a long term and I think there's a longer project where we actually have to reengage pastors. Some pastors when they went to seminary were basically taught not to do politics. And sadly, I mean this is like your Gen X and even your millennial pastor today, they were taught to be more neutral. I think this is going to be a long term thing. I think there's going to be some pain in these midterms, but what will it take? I think it's going to take a lot of common sense and a lot of microphones, especially for more people like Willie Rice and Jack Gibbs and others. Just signaling, counter signaling, kind of a long standing position where the evangelical world has been in the last 20 years, which is to be neutral. And we can no longer afford to be neutral. We can no longer afford to be silent. Christians, must get out and vote.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So make a plan, to vote if you, if you do not yet know what is on your ballot between candidates and also the issues and the amendments, I mean the voting in, the issues and the amendments down your ballot, it's just as important often as voting for the candidates because those things are incredibly significant in states. last time in 2024 here in Florida on our ballot we had two really significant issues that would have changed, Florida, including you know, the abortion amendment. That would basically have made Florida an abortion tourist state. Thankfully that was defeated, but it's only because enough people got out and vote voted. So you need to know what is going to be on your ballot and who is going to be on your ballot and then make the best decision that you can with the options that you are given. It's not ever going to be a perfect situation. Some candidates you'll be more excited about than others. But we need to steward our vote, our voice and our citizenship. Well, so Rhyen Helfenbein, thanks so much. You can follow him on X. And as always you can reach me and My team, Jenna afr.netm preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today? Go to preborn.com afr.
Jenna Ellis: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But she can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside her. One ultrasound is just $28 and to donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com afr Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up, each of you and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Monday, October, 5th, and France is on fire with what started as teenagers protesting the conditions inside their schools, but has now exploded into something much bigger and more political in France. And so these demonstrations began in the Paris region in late September with high school students complaining about overcrowded classrooms, teacher shortages and long school days poor. But within days, those protests spread across the country. And what began as complaints about education has descended into, some places into outright rioting. And, there are some videos online that are so disturbing where, one person who's part of this riot, a woman, a French woman, you know, basically tells him to stop and he turns around and has a fiery blowtorch right in her face. it is, it is so hideous. And so the question is, what is driving this anymore? Because, it has gotten political. And the Macron government says the demonstrations have been infiltrated or even deliberately fueled by France's radical left. French intelligence is reportedly pointing to politicians associated with the hard left in France. And hanging over all of this as well is France's much larger debate over mass migration, integration and the enormous strain on its social institutions. And so, this has become about, migration and how migrants are now, also suggesting that because they don't have government funded access to education and welfare, now they're rioting. So Reuters now reports more than 5,000 have been arrested since last week and roughly 400 high schools closed as of Friday. So what, is actually going on here and how is France dealing with it? Let's welcome in Oren McIntyre, who is a host at the Blaze. And, Oren you know, the French officials are now saying that the movement has been infiltrated or exploited by far left activists. what do you think is actually going on here?
Auron MacIntyre : You know, it's always difficult to understand with the French because it feels like they're always rioting. Right. Like this is like the French national pastime in a way. rioting immigrants are integrating into the French culture in a way that, you know, otherwise wouldn't. But, the scenario is that France has been building up tension inside the country for a long time. There are a lot of demographic issues with France. again, you know, domestic stability has not always been their strong suit. But obviously they have this large migrant population like so many European countries, that's putting strain on their welfare system. Everything else make it very difficult for the native population to live as they did previously. And France has a very interesting approach in that they have basically done the civic nationalism thing where they said any of these people can become Frenchmen. You know, they're trying to integrate everybody in there. And, they've gone to the length of actually banning, all religious symbols, not just, you know, Islamic ones, but Christians ones as well, in, in public spaces, to, to a large extent to try to create this like, secular unity, unifying identity. And it just has not worked. And this has really continued to bubble up anyway. And so now you're seeing these riots go, you know, far beyond any kind of socioeconomic issue and bleed into issues of identity and immigration and migration. And, you know, it's very clear that France does not have a good answer to this question.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and, you know, religious, pluralism never really worked for any country, especially when you're dealing with, migrants that have such strong belief systems that ultimately aren't cohesive. I mean, we're seeing, the same thing in terms of that clash here in the United States as well, with the rise of the Muslim population, the rise of Sharia law and how that is a, obviously a clash, with our US Constitutional system. And you know, thankfully, we don't have at least yet the same types of, outright riots and some of these things that are going on in France. But, you know, we can still look at some of the instances and the clashes with ICE and you know, what's going on between Texas and Michigan and a whole host of places. And so, when we're talking about mass migration and this is, you know, this was a big issue in 2024, it should still be a big issue even, even more than aff, because I think they're actually hand in hand. what should America learn from what's going on in France? And the fact that when there's two, just two or more fundamentally incompatible belief systems, the law really cannot provide for two completely different civil, senses of justice and virtue. I mean, we're learning that in the United States as well.
Auron MacIntyre : Yeah, that's a great point. It's really important for people to grasp this. You know, a lot of Americans, because of kind of, we think of ourselves as a nation of law, law and order. You know, we want that objective law that's going to set the tone that everybody has to follow. But we have to remember that that law comes from our beliefs, comes from our understanding of the world. It comes from our Christian heritage and our English common law tradition. And so while it seems kind of neutral and obvious to us, it isn't. It's something that comes from the way we've lived our lives and the tradition that was passed down to us from our forefathers. And so when you try to impose that on other people, they don't feel that as neutral. This is why you always hear kind of leftists saying, you know, basically just having law and order is, you know, colonialism or white supremacy, because that's how it feels to them. For Arabs or for Muslims in general, Sharia law is what they believe in. And so even though France has in many ways tried to secularize these people, ban public displays of religion, that kind of thing, it hasn't worked. Because when you get enough Muslims in your population, they will impose that worldview. It will manifest itself no matter what you've banned. And so one lesson Americans need to take away from this is banning Sharia law is insufficient. I mean, I support it, sure, but, like, ultimately, it won't matter if you have enough Muslims here, because they will go through this. They will do a similar thing. You also have a lesson to learn in the young and what it means to demographically transform your population through migration. A lot of what's going on, the reason that a lot of this started in the youth, you know, protests over schooling and everything in France is increasingly. France's youth is foreign. You know, they're having fewer and fewer children. Their birth rate is going down. Like many European countries. I think they do better than some, but still not what it needs to be. And that means the younger population is increasingly a foreign population. I used to teach, high school in public school in the United States. And, you know, it wasn't that long ago, five years Ago I was teaching in schools. And you know, the population of young people there is increasingly that of immigrants. You don't have as many people in the United States who are Native Americans who are having children. And instead the children of the next generation tend to be those who are that of immigrants. And so you're going to see that kind of tension build up between the young and the older population, because in, many cases the young people don't have the same culture. They don't feel a duty to the older generation because it's not their generation that they're connected to. so there's just a lot of important lessons about the way that mass immigration changes your country that we can definitely pour it over to what's happening
Jenna Ellis: in the U.S. absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, you will live what you believe. And that's true for you and me. That's true for, immigrants or illegals that come to these, to the United States. That's true for these migrants in France. That's true even for the, for the French, people. And what you believe is your worldview and how you understand, the concepts even of society, legitimate government, the difference between right and wrong. I mean, so many people that I've seen, comment on, you know, some of the, the, the Muslim population and Sharia law and all of that in the United States have, have really, said well, you know, how bad could that be? I mean, just, you know, let them, adhere to their beliefs. Just like Christians want to go to church on Sunday. Well, the difference is that in that Western civilization was on a Judeo Christian ethic and our standards of justice and going to church on Sunday as, as, as Christians, as Protestants, as Catholics, that is not inconsistent with our understanding of justice. But in America, then when, if you have someone who comes in and doesn't want to assimilate into Western culture and they want to still adhere to Sharia law, that is fundamentally incompatible. So it's not actually a matter of religious freedom. It's a matter of saying what you believe is inherently inconsistent with living in our society. And if you refuse to assimilate, then we're going to have problems. I mean, but this is the same thing or an even some of the left's ideas that, that have on face nothing to do specifically with religion. But it always comes back to what they believe and their view of reality. I mean, when we look at the concepts of justice, like, even with what's, what's continued to be discussed in The Lindsey Clancy trial. I mean when you have a society where or even just a pocket of you know, some of these jurors in Massachusetts, in a blue state that can believe 11 to 1 that a woman who killed her three children doesn't have to be criminally responsible because of some, you know, mental health psychosis supposedly, and that she didn't get access to the health care she needed, instead of recognizing that punishment is what is required by a virtuous and just and Christian society, then you have a problem because that's just fundamentally incompatible with our American way of life. And so, when we look at France, they don't have this same, this same at least premise and moral foundation to adhere to. And they don't have as many people at least that are pushing for Western culture, Western civilization. So there's still hope and time in America. where do you see France going with this? I mean, are they on the brink of civil war?
Auron MacIntyre : You know, again, it's always so hard to say that because I've seen some wild footage, out of France. I mean we, a few years ago, I don't know if you remember, you know, we had ah, another uprising in the in the migrant population. And some guys were even firing, you know, RPGs, like fighting, you know, rocket propelled grenades and stuff, like really heavy weaponry. And so you thought at that point France had to, you know, go into something like a civil war. So I don't want to speculate that that's where they're heading because they always seem to be on that edge of complete social dysfunction and breakdown and yet somehow still kind of continue forward again. I don't know if it's just the rioting tradition in France and the kind of the level of civil unrest that they kind of put up with that they're used to. what I will say is I don't see in France a great binding identity that ultimately pulls them out of this. You know, the French, to their credit, have a, stronger, I think, national identity in some ways, than America does, just because of the age of the country. but they don't have an animating spiritual issue. You know, that's the real problem for France. And it used to be a deeply Catholic country and really ever since the French Revolution, it's kind of been an anti Catholic country in many ways. And so you have this just lack of undergirding faith that can rescue them from these invading other faiths. And so I think that that's the biggest Thing that America has an advantage over France is just we have a unifying faith that can push back against these because as you say, everyone has a religion. You know, there is no one without a religion. If just because your religion is, you know, progressive, feminist, secular humanism, it doesn't mean that you don't have a code by which you live. And if you don't have a true animating faith, you don't have something like a faith in Christ, push back against these other ancient and very real, you know, active face of the world like Islam, you will have a problem. And that's something that people need to remember in the United States, not just Islam. We also are seeing a lot of Hindu, migration in the United States and a lack of assimilation there where they're not converting into Christianity, they're keeping their religion, they're building temples here, they're building, you know, statues, monuments to foreign gods in the United States. And so just need to remember that it's always at some level a battle of faith.
Jenna Ellis: Yes. So well said. And we, got to take a break here. Orin McIntyre. and you know, we need to remember that, absolutely, that everyone has a faith, everyone has a worldview system. And when these fundamentally are clashing, then a society can no longer be cohesive. So we debate these issues of whether America is a place or an idea. And I would say, of course it is a place. You have to have a nation that has boundaries, has defined limits, has space in the physical world obviously, but then a worldview and a code of conduct in society, that idea of what exactly is legitimate in government that must govern society. And we have to have the same moral traditions, foundations and values to even articulate then what it is are the goals of society and what we protect, what we punish, what we prohibit, all of those things. So, really interesting. In France, we'll be keeping tabs on it. We'll be right back with more. M. Hi, I'm Jenna Ellis. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.netforward/give. That's afr.net give welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, there are still a, lot of concerns that HHS Under Secretary, Kennedy are discussing with the problems with organ donation and this concept of brain death and being too quick to procure, organs from patients who are actually still alive. And one just example of this case, that is now, being just highlighted in the news. And I think that there are, lawsuits around it. And also, Kentucky has passed a new law, the first in the nation, that allows families to stop the organ donation process when there are still signs of life. In response to this case in Kentucky, what happened, is that andy Hodge, a 38 year old police plumber, went into the emergency room in February 2021. So remember, this was during the height of all of the COVID nonsense, complaining of ongoing leg pain after surgery for a complicated fracture. And just a month later he was dead. So according to his sister, he was transferred to another hospital, where he was. He tested positive for. Positive for Covid. And instead of evaluating his leg pain, Andy was placed on the hospital's Cove protocols which included remdesivir and a 14 day prohibition of family visits. A few days later, Andy suffered a stroke and was placed on a ventilator. A few days after that, he was declared brain dead. But it turned out that the brain death test had been performed incorrectly. And, nevertheless, personnel from Kentucky Organ Donor affiliates, the Oregon procurement organization that was actually decertified this year by hhs, reviewed Andy's records and visited him at least three times during hospitalization. yet they eventually moved forward with this. So let's welcome in Dr. Heidi Klesig. And she, has posted this whole story on her X page. I'd include. I would encourage you to follow her on X at Heidi Klesig, MD. And this just seems like yet another example, Heidi, of, doctors who are so focused on organ donation that they are refusing to acknowledge the signs of life and the fact that this patient doesn't actually qualify for organ donation if they're not, in fact, deceased.
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Thank you, Jenna, so much for having me on the program. This, this is a very troubling case. You know, we all remember the COVID hysteria. And this is just one more example. This poor man's story was first, reported by Children's Health Defense in their, publication, the Defender. This man comes to the hospital with a painful leg and ends up being shunted down the Cove protocol, treated with remdesivir. Apparently they missed that. He may have had a blood clot in the leg that was giving this man the trouble. And then perhaps it sounds like this blood clot went to this man's brain, giving him a Stroke, getting him on a ventilator, getting an incorrect diagnosis of brain death. then the organ procurement people start, you know, swarming and circulating. There. There actually is, a hospital, policy nationwide for hospitals to be able to be qualified for receiving Medicare and Medicaid funding. They are required to notify organ procurement organizations whenever a patient might possibly become an organ donor. So there is a reporting requirement that this hospital followed, leading to this very questionable organ procurement organization in Kentucky. reviewing this man's medical records. I mean, there's a specific carve out under HIPAA that your personal health records can be reviewed by organ procurement people without your knowledge, when you might possibly be an organ donor. And visiting him, even at the bedside while he was at the hospital. Wow.
Jenna Ellis: And, and also, you have it in. In just the narrative of this story that when Andy's sister made arrangements for Andy's own orthopedic surgeon to come and see him, she was told that the ethics committee had decided to give him a do not resuscitate or DNR status that wouldn't even allow this evaluation. They even put a. A sign on the door prohibiting anyone from treating him. I mean, how is. How was that allowed over the family's wishes? And what is this, this, quote unquote ethics committee that gets to make these medical determinations without even consulting the family?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah, this was a real problem during the COVID hysteria. You know, the ethics committees are supposed to work with families, but, you know, during COVID there was a famous case here in my own state of Wisconsin, the case of Grace Shara. She was a young woman with down syndrome because her family had noticed during COVID that people who were put on a ventilator did worse, that use of ventilation with positive pressure was associated with poorer outcomes. They had asked her Grace's doctors not to use a ventilator. Then what happened was that doctor used that request to justify saying, well, I thought her family wanted her to be a do not resuscitate. And I'm wondering if that's what was happening in, this case with Andy as well. Andy, at the time it says in the Defender article, didn't want to be put on a ventilator because, again, it was becoming common knowledge that ventilation was a bad idea for Covid hospitalized patients. Was that also, in his case, leveraged into a, do not resuscitate order, which then put him on this downward spiral trajectory that ended in his death.
Jenna Ellis: Wow. And, you know, there are just so many stories that have come to light. since the Cove era about, the priorities of medical doctors instead of actually just treating the patient, and that their priority, was looking at, Covid. And at least in Andy's, case, it seems like they weren't even concerned about what he came in for originally. so now Kentucky has passed this new law, which allows families to stop the organ donation process when there are still signs of life. what has changed in terms of the protocols with that new law?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: So, this took effect in July of this past year, July 2026. The law states that during any organ donation, recovery, preservation, or procurement activity, A pause in procedure shall be initiated if any clinician or family member reports that there is a possible change in neurologic status, a possible indication of life, or any uncertainty regarding the accuracy of the death declaration. And interestingly, specifically lists what an indication of life might be. That, and this will certainly allow legal changes to a brain death declaration made according to the American academy of neurology brain death guideline. The way doctors diagnose brain death. Today, one of the specifically listed indications of life is spontaneous movement. So if you're moving, wouldn't any reasonable person think that you are still alive? But actually, under the American academy of neurologies brain death guidelines, they have a whole table of movements that are allowed, which they call as possibly reflexive. So if you lift an arm or a leg, you can still be declared brain dead. If you reach up towards your throat or endotracheal tube in what looks like the universal sign of choking, they can say, that's a reflex, too. So now, instead of having those movements, which certainly could be purposeful, written off as reflexes, families can say, no, wait a minute. I want to pause. The other thing is the law lists if your heart rate or blood pressure jump up now, you can call for a pause. And that's something that Andy's family saw when they would come to visit him and speak with him. His heart rate and blood pressure increased in response to their visit, so they could see he was responding to them. That would also allow a pause. You know, I think it's a great thing. Kentucky has this law, and I think it's a, a landmark for the rest of the states to follow.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And it just seems so wild to me that it's 20, 26 and we're just now getting this law passed in one state, and it's not just been the protocol throughout the United States. I mean, I think prior to Covid, if you had asked anyone, who you Know, like me, is not part of the medical profession, just has the general awareness of the Hippocratic oath and trusting, you know, of doctors and surgeons. I would have said, and I think a lot of people would have said that, you know, if there are any of these signs of life or there's any possibility of saving the actual patient, that's the first concern of doctors. But with so many now of these instances, in these cases, it seems like doctors have other priorities. And they did, especially during Cove So the liability shield, of course, that is, I think is just absolutely unethical and immoral, that Congress provided for, like the big drug companies and all of that for, the Cove shot. does any of that shield some of these practitioners who were. Who were actually implementing these processes in cases like this, or could they face civil or criminal liability?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah. And I, in the article that I read, and I've actually spoken to Andy Hodges, sister Ellie Hodge, hazy, she says she has been trying to get a, ah, lawyer to represent her and to challenge these things that happened to her brother. But she's run into a lot of difficulty. But instead of just, you know, giving up or getting bitter, she's actually started sort of an informal group that's, helping people whose loved ones were put on a hospital protocol. and this group is called Dead Serious. Kinda not. And she says that they are now active in 30 states. And she's developed a tool that if you can get your loved one's medical records, their tool analyzes the records, helps put them in a chronological order and can point out, you know, were there any red flags. So she's trying to help others instead of, you know, just giving up or becoming bitter about her brother's case. Wow.
Jenna Ellis: And, you know, good for her. And I cannot imagine being in that situation where, you know, you really wonder what. Whether there were other interventions or, you know, what could have gone differently. And so, you know, for other states who are looking, now to Kentucky as basically a model legislation, for this. Are there other states that are at least, their legislatures are considering similar legislation?
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yes. I was just, down in Texas, speaking at Texas Right to Life's annual meeting. And I'm, told by my friends at Texas Right to Life that the Texas Republican, convention is considering, adding a platform, to allow families to contest this brain death diagnosis. Because again, brain death is sort of pseudoscience. These people certainly are not dead. They have a brain injury, a severe brain injury, but they have beating hearts absorb oxygen, they, exhale CO2, they have metabolism, they digest food, they, excrete waste. I mean, they've even. People with a brain death diagnosis have even delivered healthy babies. They are certainly not dead in any metaphysical sense. There's no evidence that their souls or spirits have departed. They're not biologically dead. They have all these bodily functions and vital signs, signs of life. And you know, under the law, they're actually often not even legally dead. Because the way the American Academy of Neurology brain death guideline diagnoses death does not comply with U.S. law under the Uniform Determination of Death act, because the AAN guideline allows people with ongoing brain function to be declared somehow dead. And our law says there must be the irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brainstem, for this diagnosis. So these people are not metaphysically, biologically, or even oftentimes legally dead. This is something we need to challenge.
Jenna Ellis: absolutely. And so for people who are listening, who may want to get involved on the legislative side, how can they do that? Is there, is this being, you know, coordinated, into. And people who may, you know, have a similar story, or for people who are listening who are concerned that, you know, this never happens to them or their loved ones, what steps should they be taking? perhaps, you know, just medically or with their, the medical power of attorney to make sure that some of this is, is actually documented, before a situation like this would have arisen.
Dr. Heidi Klessig: Yeah. I recommend at this point that no one be a registered organ donor because once you have registered, your organs will be taken that registration, even though you signed up in the goodness of your heart, with no type of informed consent process, that registration is considered legally binding. So I would certainly not recommend anyone be a registered organ or tissue donor at this time. if you go to my website, which is respectforhumanlife uh.com and scroll down the homepage, you'll find we have a button on how to get off the donor list if you have registered in the past. And also there's some links there for a life affirming medical power of attorney documents so that if you are ever incapacitated in the hospital, your designee can keep the hospital fighting for protecting and preserving your life rather than putting you on this spiral toward organ donation. There's a nice link to a I refuse to donate wallet card that you can sign so that people are notified if you're ever brought to a hospital that you are not a registered organ donor and do not want to undergo testing for brain death. it is, too bad that so many states don't have legislation like this right now. NewSong Jersey is the only state in the United States that has a religious exemption to a brain death diagnosis. But if you remember during COVID you know, how they worried about how religious were you really, and they made a religious exemption a very difficult thing to achieve when you wanted to dispute taking a COVID injection. I think we should have an objection to a brain death diagnosis for any reason, not just a religious exemption, and in all states. And that's something I think is worth working toward.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Dr. Heidi Klesig, thank you so much for coming on. It's really important that we all understand our rights. We understand the reality of the situation in terms of, medical ethics, or perhaps we should say the lack of thereof. And it is really frustrating because in a lot of instances, I mean, organ donation can genuinely be life saving. But when, you are faced with this situation that it's much more about, these processes that are unethical, it's about tests that can even override the family's wishes, then that is a serious contemplation that, I agree, everyone should consider and, and perhaps remove yourself from the registry. And then, you know, if, if you're ever in a situation where you have to make these decisions, for a family member, you can address it at that time, but you won't be coerced. And that's the whole point of medical freedom, is that the government and the doctor shouldn't be able to coerce you. So again, Dr. Heidi Klesig, follow her on X. We will be right back with more. We're living in a defining moment in history. Today, a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has had the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At, preborn network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support, and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves, just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial 250 and say the keyword baby. That's 250 baby. Or [email protected] afr that's preborn.com afr Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, the Southern Baptist Convention president is calling on pastors to step up ahead of the midterm elections. Willie Rice says abortion, marriage, gender identity and immigration among some of the issues are all theological issues demanding Christian action. And he's obviously right. but he also says that while, some Christian leaders are advising against wading into politics from the pulpit, Rice is arguing that pastors have long played a key role in American politics and that members of the theological and political left have shown no, hesitation to mix religion and their politics. And evangelicals should not either, he says. should pastors engage in the political process? Absolutely they should, because there are many political issues that are at their home heart, theological issues and moral issues that strike at the very center of what we believe to be true and what we believe people need to know in order to flourish personally and as a culture. He's absolutely right. And I'm really grateful to see, that he is, he is stepping up and calling, Christians to step up. So let's welcome in Rhyen Helfenbein, who is the vice President of communications and public engagement at Liberty University. And, Rhyen, this seems like such an obvious message for 2026.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, it certainly does. And when you consider the significance of what this means, I mean, from the platform of the Southern Baptist Convention, you can go back decades and you look at men like Adrian Rogers or, men like W.A. criswell or Charles Stanley, and it would make sense, that men like that back then would, speak about these issues, but there has been kind of a drift, that has taken place over the past decade. And I am so grateful to see, a man like Willie Rice come in to get elected, as president down in Florida when the convention met there, and to be in a position now where he is speaking forthrightly with common sense, honestly, in the way that, most Southern Baptists would agree with and recognizing that we really do have a very important midterm election in our hands. And when you consider the states right now that are at play, there are several states in which the life is on the ballot. The life amendment, even in the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I reside, where Liberty University is, we have a life and marriage amendment on the ballot. And these are going to have huge, sweeping implications for our Constitution moving forward if they pass. And so, really, it's all hands on deck. I mean, every, church in the Commonwealth is being encouraged not just to vote Jenna, but to vote no. And we were telling people very specifically, like, if you're a Christian, if you're a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot vote yes on this life amendment. You cannot vote yes on this marriage amendment. You must vote no. and so we're very, very clear on that. but I think it is so helpful to have, somebody like Willie Rice as the president of the convention speaking on things that, honestly, 20 and 30 and 40 years ago, we would have expected from the Southern Baptist Convention. And now it looks like it's back again, which is awesome.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, that is absolutely awesome. and I think that, Willie Rice is right, that the left has absolutely no hesitation in mixing their religion and politics. Certainly, you know, Muslims don't. Certainly everybody else who mixes, you know, their worldview into politics, including even people who, who profess to be, you know, the secular humanist atheists, will. They still have a view of the world, and they still have a view of right and wrong and what society should criminalize versus not. I mean, all of these things go into a person's, foundational view and belief system. And so somehow it's always only the Christians that we're not allowed to bring our beliefs into society. We have to leave them at the threshold of our churches and only maybe whisper about them within the congregation. And, you know, how dare we expect, society to actually live up to any standard of biblical morality. So when it comes to just, for example, this, this race between Ken Paxton and James Talarico, I think this is one of the best examples currently of how Christians can see how the left is. and Talarico is, you know, using his profession, I would say blaspheming of Christianity to try to advance his campaign. And Ken Paxton, meanwhile, has an excellent record of, actual conservative policies and action. But there are some Christians in Texas who are saying, well, I could never vote for Paxton because, you know, he's. He's divorced or he, you know, it's some of his personal complications where, you know, that. That if you just look at who these two individuals would be in elected office, I personally see absolutely, a. A completely 100% difference between the the values and the belief system that Talarico would bring versus a Ken Paxton. And it's no question, if I was in Texas, I'd be voting for Ken Paxton.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, it's well stated. There is a, there is something that is, you know, kind of looming in the evangelical world and has been for a while. And you know, there's books out that are about it now, written by conservatives, which is this idea of loser theology being beautiful losers. And what that means is, is that when it comes to existential threats, when it comes to sometimes even political races like this, we have to recognize that there is absolutely, there's God's moral law. And that is always true no matter what time it is, no matter where we are in civilization. but we also have to recognize that, when it comes to elections, what you're voting for, also has, implications for policy for people, for who stands in office and what they do. And sadly Jenna, I think many people have lost the plot. They've kind of forgotten about what these elections do and don't determine. And when you consider what's happening right now in Texas, when you consider a DSA style candidate, a democratic socialist, somebody who would be supportive of those kinds of measures, or, you know, men, and women's locker room, or you know, trans surgeries for minors, when you consider how egregious that might be, the left has no problem pushing on the right. Oh, but listen, guys, at the end of the day, you can't vote for this candidate because remember, remember who you are. You wouldn't support somebody who's ever gotten a divorce. You wouldn't support somebody, who has done X, Y or Z. And this is the Saul Alinsky tactic of making your enemy play by their own rules. And I would want to encourage evangelicals to think wisely, to understand the purpose of an election. when you think about who you're putting in that seat of representative government or seat of power, recognizing what they're going to do once they're in that position. And I abhor loser theology, but I abhor the idea that there is this idea that we just. Basically the only purpose of your principles is to make sure that you lose and you lose spectacularly every single election. and sadly that has been put into play, for many years now. And I think there are some evangelicals, that don't vote. I think there's others that have been encouraged to vote third way or third party, largely because they've applied those kinds of principles, and to the detriment, I think, ultimately of our republic.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. So well said. And even just yesterday, in the context of the California gubernatorial election, and again, you know, here are two candidates with two totally different views of reality. You have Becerra on one hand, who, you know, was at the forefront of the, the church closures and all of the COVID nonsense and the Biden administration did, you know, just utterly horrible policy. And then you have Steve Hilton, who would actually transform California for the better. And there was, you know, some, some person who's doesn't even have a name on X that responded to a video from our good friend Jack Hibbs saying, my wife and I will not be voting for Steve Hilton. We will be writing on the ballot God Almighty. And I responded to that. And I mean, I don't always respond to, you know, just these random commenters, but that one made me so mad. And I said, you might think this is spiritually superior, but God Almighty tells you to be a good citizen and to steward his blessings. Read Romans. I mean, just how ridiculous can people be to say, you know, I'm not going to actually vote for literally the candidate on the ballot. I mean, Jesus is not running you guys. We are not also voting for a pastor. This is something where it's always a closed universe situation. You know, here in my home state of Florida for governor, I didn't support personally, Byron Donald's in the primary, but he's the nominee. And is he going to be better than allowing Florida to go, you know, backward and have the first, Democrat governor since I think the 70s. I mean, it's just a no brainer here. And yet you have these some Christians who somehow piously think that it's more spiritual to not deign to vote for a Republican who might have some perceived flaws.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said and there's a lot of foolishness in what I call evangelical gnosticism. You know, we live in reality. Jesus, gave us the Great Commission. he has us on earth. but part of what we're to do as Christians is to, to do his will. we pray in the Lord's Prayer. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We're commanded to occupy until he returns. we have to recognize though that Jesus Christ, who has an ultimate plan for, the end of mankind and for his return, he also lives in reality and he recognizes there's a stewardship. And he is he is putting on us this stewardship, the blessing of what it is to be a Christian living in the United States. We do not live in disembodied reality. we have a home, many of us, whether we rent or whether we pay a mortgage, we pay taxes, we live in a municipality or a state. And when we vote it's going to have an outcome. And when people write in just some random name no, that is not going to have any bearing on the outcome of an election. Those votes will get counted but ultimately tossed because it's a two party system. And so people need to wake up. I mean, I think this gnostic notion of the spiritual accounts for everything, but physical reality counts for nothing. I think has posed a lot of Christians. I think there are some who are so pietistic they do not recognize reality that is right in front of their face.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, there are a lot of Calvary Chapel pastors and of course, you know, regular listeners know that was the the non denomination that I grew up in and still absolutely love Calvary Chapels. And so many of their pastors used to say, you can't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good. And I think that applies to how we steward our votes and how we engage in politics, here in America because we've been given such a great blessing of liberty that we can select and prefer who governs us and our leaders. I mean so many people across world history had absolutely no say in who governed them, who imposed the laws. they didn't even have a forum for redress of grievances. I mean we can look at, you know, all of the civil civilizations across world history and say, truly, this is one of the primary reasons that America is so great that we confine our civil government to consent of the people and to this recognition that we are under God's ultimate authority. But if we're going to preserve that in this country, we have to steward that. And we can't just benefit from the blessings of liberty, but then not engage and not actively work ourselves to protect that. So you know, if evangelicals actually voted in every single election and every, you know, state and ballot that we could, that would be transformative in this country. what do you think, Rhyen, it will take to have pastors engage this, you know, for the next few weeks, four weeks until the midterms and then beyond, to, to truly tell their congregations, you know, this is incredibly important and this is a part of the Christian life.
Ryan Helfenbein: Yeah, I think, I think there's a, there's a short term and a long term and I think there's a longer project where we actually have to reengage pastors. Some pastors when they went to seminary were basically taught not to do politics. And sadly, I mean this is like your Gen X and even your millennial pastor today, they were taught to be more neutral. I think this is going to be a long term thing. I think there's going to be some pain in these midterms, but what will it take? I think it's going to take a lot of common sense and a lot of microphones, especially for more people like Willie Rice and Jack Gibbs and others. Just signaling, counter signaling, kind of a long standing position where the evangelical world has been in the last 20 years, which is to be neutral. And we can no longer afford to be neutral. We can no longer afford to be silent. Christians, must get out and vote.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So make a plan, to vote if you, if you do not yet know what is on your ballot between candidates and also the issues and the amendments, I mean the voting in, the issues and the amendments down your ballot, it's just as important often as voting for the candidates because those things are incredibly significant in states. last time in 2024 here in Florida on our ballot we had two really significant issues that would have changed, Florida, including you know, the abortion amendment. That would basically have made Florida an abortion tourist state. Thankfully that was defeated, but it's only because enough people got out and vote voted. So you need to know what is going to be on your ballot and who is going to be on your ballot and then make the best decision that you can with the options that you are given. It's not ever going to be a perfect situation. Some candidates you'll be more excited about than others. But we need to steward our vote, our voice and our citizenship. Well, so Rhyen Helfenbein, thanks so much. You can follow him on X. And as always you can reach me and My team, Jenna afr.netm preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today? Go to preborn.com afr.
Jenna Ellis discusses the escalating protests in France that began as student demonstrations over education conditions but have transformed into a national crisis. Joined by Auron MacIntyre from The Blaze, they analyze the political implications and the underlying issues of migration and identity that fuel the unrest. The conversation also touches on the lessons America can learn from France's situation regarding mass migration and cultural integration.
Live
Did you know American Family Radio is listener-supported? Your monthly financial support will allow us to continue upholding Godly values through our numerous channels, like American Family Radio, One Million Moms, The Stand magazine, and many more.
Become a Great Commission Partner TODAY to help AFR transform culture by rebuilding the family. When you donate today, you’ll get access to:
