Sponsor Thank You and Introduction to Biblical Worldview and Constitutional Obligations
Jenna Ellis We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But she can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside her. One ultrasound is just $28 and to donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com afr Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you.
Discussion on Extreme Political Candidates and the Hamas Truck Incident in Dearborn
And God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Jenna Ellis Good morning. It is Thursday, October 22nd, and as we are headed into the midterms, there continues to be this question, like, who is actually voting for some of these really extreme, frankly, you know, insane in terms of their worldview type of candidates? like Abdul El Said, and, you know, and James Talarico, others. And you just wonder, you know, what is the mindset of people who are actually saying, yeah, I think that the values of those individuals should lead this country. I mean, it's, it's just fascinating. Well, my good friend David Brody, who is the chief political analyst for CBN News, posted this really wild clip on X. And if you're not following him, you should be at D. Brody reports. but he says this. Look what we found when we went to Dearborn, Michigan. The Hamas truck. What? It proudly displays Hamas on its license plate. Palestinian flags flying, anti Israel messages plastered everywhere. And we spoke to the owner. Guess who he says he supports for U.S. senate? Yep, you guessed it, Abdul, El Said. So watch his radical comments about El Said, Jews and Hitler and more and more. And so this whole interview, this clip is about six minutes, so we're not going to play all of that, but we have something even better.
Interview with David Brody About the Hamas Truck Driver and His Radical Views
David, Brody himself joins us this morning. And David, I did listen to this whole interview and I'm just sitting here watching this dude who has a T shirt that, you know, has really bold letters that says Zionism is not Judaism. I mean, you know, this guy might as well have like all the coexist bumper stickers everywhere. And you know, like, I, I don't even know where to start on this but first of all, how did you come across this guy? And what's beyond the obvious? I mean, what's the context here?
David Brody Well, thanks for having me, Jenna. And, before I give you the backstory, let me just say, thank you for definitely having me as a step up over the Hamas truck driver in terms of being the interview.
Jenna Ellis You know, we get only the best. Yeah, absolutely.
David Brody I appreciate it. Look, this is a, this is like a godwink moment. And I can quickly explain it. That morning, my cameraman and I were praying, for the Lord to bring us people, that would reveal the truth about this Michigan Senate race. and we were going to Dearborn. Actually, we were in Toledo, Ohio that morning, covering the Ohio Senate race, and we were heading to Dearborn and we had m. Said that prayer and we prayed a good five minutes actually in the car about this. We get to Dearborn and we're meeting a pastor and other people that, are praying for the city of Dearborn has a separate story that will be coming up later on on CBN in a few weeks. and then all of a sudden we're this park in Dearborn and this guy, the Hamas truck driver, literally drives his truck into this parking lot and just hangs out. No particular reason, he wasn't there for an event. He just decided to park his truck right there. Hello, God, you are on the throne. It's a godwink moment. We're like, hello, that could be good for our story. and so indeed we spoke to him. You can see the video there on X, that I posted. and he's got the whole truck, the whole nine yards, the Hamas license plate. Zionism is not Judaism. he called himself a so called Christian who converted, to Islam. I mean, which is wild stuff to begin with. Anyhow.
Observations on Dearborn, Michigan and its Muslim Population's Impact on the Senate Race
how do I say it, Jen? I mean, it's literally hell on wheels is what it is. And, and the fact that it was in Dearborn, Michigan, kind of is apropos, if you will. just because of that, what I, what I saw in Dearborn, which you can have me back on, I guess, another time if you like. I like how I'm inviting myself on your show at this point.
Jenna Ellis You're welcome.
David Brody But you can have me back, you can have me back on to talk about what's going on in Dearborn specifically, because what I saw, I've never seen, an American city like Dearborn at all. And I'm not being hyperbolic at all. I'm literally, I'VE never seen anything like it. Just in terms of, so Muslims everywhere in the streets, Arabic signs everywhere. It's not an enclave, it's an entire city. It's wild. But anyhow, back to this guy. yeah, he's off his rocker. And I was just praying, honestly, during that time because, you know, he needs the Lord and he needs a lot of prayer because, he's off his rocker. Yeah.
Jenna Ellis And, you know, in this truck in the back, it has a sign. Israel's worst nightmare. And, you know, all these things. And, so this is, of course, about the Michigan Senate race. And do people like this vote? I mean, did he indicate that he's actually planning to engage and vote, or is this more of a spectacle for him?
David Brody No, he says he's going to vote for El Sayed. you know, now let's be clear. And you know, this is where he gets a little murky. A lot of people will say, well, this is your typical El Said voter. I don't necessarily buy that, but what I do know is that that's part of the, part of the radical fringe that is buying in, to what El Said is pitching. And, you know, our story up there in Michigan was actually beyond Dearborn. it was actually going to West Bloomfield, Michigan and other places where there are heavily Jewish population talking to Jewish democr. I spoke to many Jewish Democrats on the ground there. We're talking about liberal Jews. One guy calls himself an atheist Jew. And we can get into that in a separate. That feels like a Dr. Phil issue, honestly. But, these are not your Orthodox Jews who are against El Sayed. These are liberal Jews that would vote for a Democrat but cannot get there with El Sayed. And these liberal Jews that I spoke to on camera, are mobilizing. They're literally mobilizing for Mike Rogers in Michigan. I think it's palpable there. And so there's a story in, in this Michigan Senate race because there's a lot of subsets, right? I mean, you know, of course evangelicals are important in any, in any state. but beyond all of that, you've got the African American population, obviously, very important. But really, if you think about it, Jews and Muslims in Michigan will decide this election. You know, Mike Rogers only won by 20,000 votes last time in 2020. Excus.
Analysis of Michigan Senate Race Demographics: Jews and Muslims as Key Voters
Lost by 20,000 votes last time In 2024. It's going to be a very close election. Jews represent about 1% of the population of Michigan, 130,000 people. Muslims represent almost 2%. It's about 1 1/2 percent, 250,000 people. But when you're talking about an election this close, Jews, Democrat, Jews mobilizing for Mike Rogers could very well make the difference. Jenna. Wow.
Jenna Ellis And, you know, it's incredible and to look at some of these races and the stories that are coming out, but in Dearborn specifically, I mean, you mentioned that it feels, you know, very Muslim and you know, as you were describing, kind of that, that overall feel and then it doesn't even feel American. Honestly, David.
Comparing Dearborn's Muslim Community to Israel and Discussing Homegrown vs. Imported Ideologies
I mean, the one time I've had the privilege of actually visiting, Israel, I was actually really surprised at how many Muslims were there as well and how it didn't feel the. I think the context of scripture and biblical that, that I sort of anticipated. you know, and maybe we, we tend to romanticize, you know, some of these historical places, just because of those contexts. But, but when we're looking at, at some of these cities that, you know, whether it's Israel or it's America that, you know, really should not have the, the evil that is, the worldview that is perpetuated through Islam, at least when it, it comes to an American city, through your reporting and, and discoveries and all that there, did you get the sense that this is more homegrown? Is this because of the importing of our demise, as people have called it? I mean, what is it that's so unique, I guess, about Dearborn specifically, that so many of these stories are coming from this particular city?
David Brody Well, it's definitely homegrown and it's a lot about where our culture has gone and some of the, that socialism, we call it the red green alliance, as you know, that has, infiltrated, the Democrat party, but not just Democrat Party, the younger generation especially. And so what you see is very much a red green alliance, you know, that communist socialist red and the green of Islam, of course, right there in Dearborn. And we saw it. And once again, I want to be very clear, you know, we've heard the stories about Dearborn. Oh, it's a Muslim city in America. And you know, and everybody's the dire warning signs and everything. And I said to myself, no, don't do that. Go in with open eyes and just literally and a clear mind and from, a spiritual standpoint, have discernment about what is really going on there. And Jenna, I could not look away. I mean, it was everywhere. It was. And this is going to sound like a stand up, funny line, but it really isn't. Which is like, hey, save some airfare. Don't go to the Middle East. Just go to Dearborn, because it is a. It's like I felt like I went to Gaza. It's like I went to some sort of Middle Eastern city, there. And I'm not playing around. I mean, like I said, it's not enclaves. It's the entire city. Storefront, after storefront in Arabic. less English. M. More Arabic. The, Dearborn, actually city guy that you pick up in their chamber of commerce is half English, half Arabic. and it's about, you know, 50 pages. So 25 in Arabic, 25 in English. it's just wild stuff. And, you know, they have the largest Muslim m. Ah, excuse me. The largest mosque in America there in Dearborn.
Exploring Hamtramck's Muslim Majority and Controversial Animal Sacrifice Ordinance
And what's interesting is that you go outside of Dearborn about 15 minutes or so, and there's Hamtramck. And a lot of people don't talk about Hamtramck. But, you probably know, ah, as well, Jenna, that that is a huge Muslim American city here. As a matter of fact, 70% of the population in Hamtramck is Muslim. About 50 to 55% is Muslim in Dearborn, but 70% in Hamtramck. We went there, and they are more Yemeni in dissent, if you will. So you see the full burqas, and literally, it's burka after burka. I am not playing around. I'll send you the pictures. I'll send you the video. we'll post it. It's wild stuff. It's like, wait, this is America. And once again, I'm not talking about freedom of religion, freedom of expression, all of that. Fine. But. But just to visually see. That was wild. And let me just say one last thing, Jenna, about Hamtramck, which we'll be reporting on. they have an ordinance there in Hamtramck that allows animal sacrifice. this is something the city council passed. Now, we're not talking about animals like cats and dogs, but we are talking about goats and sheep that you can literally. And this comes, of course, from a lot of the Muslim holy days. So they literally. A Muslim city council, a majority Muslim city council in Hamtramck passed an ordinance, regarding animal sacrifice.
Debating Islam's Compatibility with the West and the Importance of Culture in Governance
So if you want to sacrifice an animal, a goat or sheep or some other livestock in your home, it is allowed. This is going on in America, Jenna.
Jenna Ellis Wow. And see, and this is where for the Christians who say, you know, well, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, you know, that's so important. And so we can't, suggest that, you know, Islam and this religion is somehow incompatible with the West. Well, obviously it is. And we're not just talking about the freedom to believe. just like, you know, your neighbor could, could believe the earth is flat and, you know, the government's not going to come and punish him for it. But when you're talking about legislating and you're talking about that belief, then contradicting the codified morality that's based on the biblical worldview here in the United States, then we have a problem. And this is why belief always leads to a, worldview and then leads to what you believe is legitimate for government and what, what government should permit our own actions to do. I mean, that's why, you know, Breitbart famously said, politics is downstream from culture. And so when we're talking about such a completely different culture, this is why all of these things are so incompatible with the west and why elections matter. Because if we continue in even certain isolated pockets in the United States to
Jenna Ellis vote in people who are going to
Jenna Ellis change, you know, they're.
The Impact of Local Elections and Citizen Engagement in Preserving American Values
They're city, council codifications are going to change, you know, some of these, these statutes and some of these allowances, then eventually that's going to become bigger and bigger. And so, you know, where do you, where do you see that we can maybe make an inroad, just saving the overall value system that is supposed to undergird our law in the United States when you come to cities like this. Because I think for a lot of us who aren't in Dearborn, Michigan, and some of these places, I mean, this is kind of wild. And I think it's a little bit odd for a lot of people to think that this is happening contemporaneously in the United States.
David Brody Yeah, it starts right in front of you. And, you may know Pastor Rob McCoy, he's a good friend of mine, who. One of his famous sermons that I love is where he says, take care of your own bean patch right in front of you. And what that means is whether it be your city council, your pta, whatever's happening in your local community, because you can look at Washington and go, oh, gosh, I throw up my hands. Forget about it. These people are all crazy. Don't do that. Go in and care about what's in front of you right there in your city council pta, your kids, your grandkids, whatever it is, get out of the pews. And get to work. And I think that's where it's starts. I think if we start to look at it at a national level, we can feel a bit helpless and hopeless. But I think if you look at it locally, that's at least where you
Jenna Ellis can get some motivation about on this. But we've got a run. Follow him at D. Brody Reports. We'll be right back.
Introduction of Whistleblower Initiative to Combat Government Fraud and Waste
Jenna Ellis Hi, I'm Jenna Ellis. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.netgive that's afr.net give welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis President Trump and Vice President J.D. vance are taking a new approach to rooting out government fraud paying Americans to help expose it. So the administration has announced this week a $25 million whistleblower initiative that could reward individuals who uncover fraud involving taxpayer dollars. So the idea is simple. Americans work hard for their money and the government has responsibility to ensure those dollars aren't being stolen, wasted or funneled into fraudulent stuff schemes. But just how widespread is the fraud in federal programs? And why hasn't the government been able to stop it already? Could empowering ordinary citizens to become whistleblowers finally bring some much needed accountability to Washington? Well, let's welcome in Raechel Gressler, who is a senior research fellow for Advancing American Freedom. And Raechel, let's start with the basics. How exactly will this new whistleblower program work and what kinds of fraud and is the administration hoping Americans will help uncover?
Rachel Greszler Yes. Good morning. Thank you, Jenna. so this new whistleblower incentive, program, acronym is WIP, is going to offer rewards to individuals between 10,000 and $30,000 if they provide information that leads to criminal charges, related to fraud in certain areas. And this is different than the current system in which individuals can come forward with such information. But it could take a decade before they might even see the end of what that outcome, is and potentially get reward for that.
Discussion on the Scale of Fraud, Its Detection Challenges, and Program Sustainability
And so fraud in the US Is enormous. the problem is we don't actually know exactly how much is out there because we find very little of it. Over recent years it's been like maybe $10 billion per year in known fraud. certainly the current administration has increase that significantly. But gao, report, the Government Accountability Office of nonpartisan organization says that Americans lose between 230 and about $520 billion per year to fraud. And that's a huge number that amounts to about two weeks of mortgage payments or rent payments for every household in America at the upper end. So there's potentially an enormous amount of fraud out there, but it can be really difficult to find. And I think that this new, whistleblower incentive program is an important step of the bigger picture of cracking down on fraud, because it will allow an individual to be able to have a role and feel like, hey, if I bring this information forward, the government's actually going to act on it. I think that's part of the problem right now is that people don't really know if anything's going to happen if they bring forward, some information that they might have. And so this is one important step. I think that it will be part of a broader initiative that's going to have to happen, including Congress as well, to really fight fraud.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And it seems like with this program being started by the Trump administration, is it possible that it would be phased out after President Trump's term ends? Or is this something that is supposed to be a little more lasting because it will take a while, as you said, to get to the root of even some of the complaints that are being brought forward initially.
Rachel Greszler Yes, that's an important point. It could be phased out by a new administration unless Congress did something to codify it into law, to make it permanent. And so while it will have some impact, for sure in the short run, some of these investigations can take a significant amount of time. and it is. It's providing these rewards significantly earlier than they used to be possible because it will give them as soon as a criminal charge is brought forward. But even that could take a while because there's a lot of investigation that goes on behind these.
Distinguishing Criminal Fraud from Government Inefficiency and Abuse in Spending
so certainly some of the rewards, I think, will. Will be seen in the short term, but others could play out over a longer period of time. And so it is important, to keep this program going if Congress wants to do that, to put it into law.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And you know, the numbers that you mentioned, that is just an exorbitant amount of waste and fraud. And so how much of this. Do we know how much of this is actually criminal fraud as opposed to government inefficiency or irresponsible spending? I mean, we saw some of the numbers coming out of doge that Congress was spending and just right before our eyes, and really nothing or not much has been done about some of that waste.
Rachel Greszler Yes, there's both, you know, there's waste and there's fraud, and there's also some level of abuse. and so the fraud alone is the figure that I was talking about. This is like brazen criminal activity. and that's the figure that's between 230 and about $520 billion. On top of that, we know that the government measures and reports about $185 billion per year in improper payments. And those are just amounts that are sent out to the wrong people or in the wrong amount. And most of those are errors. Some of it has to do with eligibility that may or may not be fraudulent. It could have been a mistake. But within those improper payments, less than 10 billion of that is reported as known fraud. So there's the errors, there's the outrage fraud, and then there's also abuse. When you have, you know, welfare programs like food stamps and you allow categorical eligibility so that people who are actually millionaires can legally qualify, you know, that doesn't count as fraud and it doesn't count as an improper payment. But certainly that's not what the program was intended for. And so there is, you know, as a whole, there are hundreds of billions of dollars out there that American taxpayers should not be paying for. And yet they are.
Jenna Ellis Yeah.
Jenna Ellis I mean, how does fraud on this scale, how has it continued for years without being detected?
Challenges in Government Self-Policing and the Need for Transparency in Fund Tracking
I mean, is this just that we realistically can't expect government agencies to police themselves?
Rachel Greszler Well, I think we should expect them to. You know, taxpayers. We have to meticulously track all the income we earn and report it to the IRS and fill out all those forms and file it. And we know that they're going to come after us if, we aren't able to take account of all of our, income that's coming in. And so I think that a big step for Congress is actually enacting a law that would require the same transparency and accountability on the federal government as they require of taxpayers. and a big, big part of the thing here is we're Talking about over $4 trillion in benefits, mostly through the welfare system that are transferred every year. And some of that is directly from the federal government to individuals. but a lot of it goes to state governments first, and then a lot of it goes down to other benefit provide providers. you know, we're talking about like the child care programs and the providers for Medicaid and even the ones that are issuing like scooters and other medical devices. And we really just lose track of where that money goes once it leaves the treasury, for the most part. And so I think that we just need to. It could be pretty simple to enact legislation that requires Congress to follow the money every step from the treasury to whatever level it goes to, so that you can track it to an individual. And if it's not shown up on a tax form at the end, if you can't match it, there's the immediate red flag, and that's where you know that you can start following the money. The problem right now is that you, you know, we have these instances, but there's really no tracking of where has the money come from and gone to. and so I think that getting that infrastructure in place first could massively increase the amount of fraud prevention that we can have in America.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, I mean, and these cases reveal a lot. just the instances that you talked about. You know, the childcare, food assistance, welfare, all of these things about real vulnerabilities and how taxpayer money is distributed. And it seems like in 2026, when we can track, you know, even a payment authentication number for something as simple as, you know, the $20 burrito transaction from, like, you know, Sell or Venmo or something, it's seems like it's very easy in this day to actually follow that money and make sure that it's distributed properly.
Government Lagging Private Sector and the Role of Citizens as Government Watchdogs
And so why, why do you think Congress hasn't addressed this until now? I mean, is it just that they don't want the accountability?
Rachel Greszler Well, the government's always behind the private sector in virtually everything. and yes, you know, a lot of these programs realize that significant amounts of money are being wasted, and if they start following it, then there's going to be less support for programs to begin with. but that doesn't have to be the case. I mean, if you're talking about, like, food stamps, you want that money to go to the individuals who need assistance with food. You don't want it to be wasted, going to somebody that is a millionaire or going to a criminal, overseas. And you also don't want it to be stolen from the individual's SNAP card that they get, which is happening today. And then they have no recourse and aren't actually getting the benefits that they should be getting. So I think that this should be a bipartisan, effort to just make sure that the money that taxpayers have put people in Congress to approve spending is going to the sources that it's supposed to be.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, absolutely. And one of the interesting aspects of this initiative is that the administration is essentially inviting ordinary Americans to become watchdogs over their own government. Which, you know, conservatives for a long time have wanted that and there have been other, you know, methods of, of being, watchdogs. But, but a lot of times that's a little bit more of an adversarial kind of relationship and it ends in, you know, more litigation, you know, some of, of the sunshine laws, you know, some of those things. And so do you think that this marks a significant shift in how we think about government accountability and our own ability as citizens to require that when it's our money? I mean, the government is not entitled. Maybe just because they can forcibly, take it from us because of the tax laws right now, it doesn't mean that somehow they're not accountable to us.
Rachel Greszler Yes, absolutely. And I hope that Americans do feel like they can have a role in this and they can help to protect the integrity of taxpayers money. because that hasn't been the case to date.
Simplifying the Whistleblower Process and Types of Fraud Individuals Can Report
And I think that this whistleblower incentive program, will let them know, like I've gone to the website itself and it's like very easy to see, like hey, here's where I click the button and I think to have them to have some buy in and that, and know that they can be rewarded and also that the government wants them to do this and that they are going to be willing to cooperate with them. I think that right now the government can either seem adversarial or like a black box and if I, you know, raise a red flag and call something into question, either they're going to dismiss me or they're going to make me, you know, spend tens of hours per week filling out paperwork and going to all these buildings and it's going to be so burdensome that I'm not even going to bother. I, think this makes it a relatively simple process and helps individuals know that the government wants them to be a part of this.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And so I mean, how much evidence would an ordinary American need before reporting suspected fraud? I mean what, what types of instances are we anticipating from this program that would separate a legitimate whistleblower tip from maybe just a, an unsubstantiated allegation or somebody, you know, saying, well, government, you need to look into this program because I'm sure that there's fraud somewhere in it.
Rachel Greszler Yes. And certainly there are going to be a lot of things submitted to this that are going to lead to nothing that might not have anything behind it. but I think it will be Important to note that individuals have to a, ah, duty to not report anything that is false. You certainly don't want people to just be trying to get back at somebody. but the amount and types of fraud that could be reported are really endless. You know, it's things like, hey, somebody's caring for an aging parent and they see this Medicare, bill come in that they were charged for receiving a scooter that they never received, or somebody had a hospice bill and the individual actually passed away two years ago, things like that. Where nowadays it's like, oh, well that's too bad. But it was through Medicare. I didn't have to pay for it and I don't really know what to do about this. So I'm just going to ignore it. And now they have an outlet that they can go to, to report that or in the instances that we're seeing documented in the media of whether it's childcare centers or places that are claiming they're providing medical services or claiming they're feeding children and yet you don't see anybody in there. you know, I think there's different levels in which you can go in and as long as you're being truthful, you can say, hey, this looks a little shady based on this evidence or maybe you have a lot of evidence and you've been following the paperwork and you know, you've had your identity stolen yourself, and you actually have significant information that you can provide.
Jenna Ellis I'm speaking with Raechel Gressler, who's a senior research fellow for Advancing American Freedom.
Replicating Whistleblower Programs at State Levels and Enhancing Intergovernmental Cooperation
And you know, it seems like there's a lot of renewed interest on Americans part, because of doge. So at least there were some success in bringing attention to this issue. And we've seen in states like my home state of Florida, the kind of DOGE on the state level is this program that, that Trump and Vance are initiating, could this be replicated on the state or even local level as well?
Rachel Greszler Yes, absolutely. And actually we're going to need cooperation since a lot of the programs, the welfare programs are paid for at least in part, if not in full by the federal government and then run by the states. but the states also have a stake in that. And then there are certain programs that are exclusively state run. and so I think that this would set an example and potentially we could see some states that they might want to set up, you know, their own whistleblower incentive programs. and certainly we want to have more coordination coming out of this. And I think that actually the federal government should be requiring, coordination and cooperation, including data sharing, in any program in which they're sending money to states or to other entities.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And so what would you consider the most meaningful measure of success here? I mean, the amount of fraud uncovered. Are we tying this to the number of prosecutions, the money recovered, or, or reforms that prevent fraud from happening in the first place, or, you know, maybe a combination of all of that? Mm,
Defining Success Metrics for the Whistleblower Initiative and Government Accountability
Rachel Greszler I think at first a measure of success is the amount of fraud uncovered. and certainly once you start uncovering fraud, that becomes a deterrence to future fraud. And so we would want to see that figure go down because we want there to actually be less fraud to be discovered in the future. and also seeing a reduction in total spending for some of these programs where you have upwards of 10%, in improper payments and an unknown amount in fraud. so we could see huge savings in just the amount of assistance that's going out because it's not being stolen.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, yeah. And that's where I, you know, just from my personal opinion, seeing what was uncovered with Doge and the fact that Congress is actually spending on so many programs that if the American people actually got a say in this and, and had to vote on some of these measures, there's no way that we would send, our taxpayer money to Congress in order to, for them to have those types of expenditures. And it just seems like they're, they have a blank check to basically just spend on whatever they prefer. But there's no real accountability, for the American people. So, you know, this is a really good first step. but Raechel, I really appreciate the, kind of deeper dive into how this program might work.
Jenna Ellis And you know, at the end of
Jenna Ellis the day, this is about something much bigger than just a whistleblower program. It's about the fundamental responsibility of government to be accountable to the people it serves. Because taxpayer dollars, like I said, aren't the government's money. They represent the hard work, sacrifice, livelihoods and personal property of Americans who are compelled to hand over, in my opinion, a way too big of a portion of what we earn. With the expectation, though, that those resources will be used responsibly. And from a biblical perspective, stewardship isn't optional. We need to, to expect integrity and accountability from our government. And so this is a great initiative. so public service is a public trust. And we'll be right back with more.
Preborn's Mission to Save Babies from Abortion Through Ultrasounds and Support
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Investigation into Alleged Bribery Scheme Involving Presidential Pardon and Former Attorney
welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Well, speaking of whistleblowers and corruption and fraud, a bombshell investigation from the NewSong York Times this week is raising serious questions about a presidential pardon from President Trump, a Venezuelan billionaire, and a $50 million deal involving one of President Trump's former personal attorneys. So, according to the report from the NewSong York Times, billionaire banker, Julio Herrera Velutini, if I'm pronouncing that right, was facing federal corruption charges involving an alleged bribery scheme in Puerto Rico. After negotiating a plea agreement that reduced his criminal exposure to a misdemeanor campaign finance offense, Herrera continued to seek a presidential pardon. His family, according to the report, subsequently hired Alena Haba, President Trump's former personal attorney and a Justice Department adviser, though, through a deal that reportedly was guaranteeing her more than $50 million over four years. Herrera's daughter also contributed millions to a pro Trump political committee and pledged money toward the White House ballroom project. So, just two weeks after Haba formally began her new position, President Trump granted Herrera a full and unconditional pardon. So, to be clear, Haba categorically denies any involvement in securing that pardon. And the White House and the Justice Department have denied that she played a role in the decision. the president does have extraordinarily broad constitutional authority to grant pardons. But that brings us to the legal questions at the center of this story, where is the line between lawful legal representation, political influence, and potentially criminal corruption? Does the Constitution's pardon power have any meaningful limitations? And what evidence would actually be necessary to establish wrongdoing rather than simply the appearance of impropriety? Let's welcome in Joel Griffith, who is a senior fellow at Advancing American Freedom and an attorney.
Analyzing the 'Smell Test' of a Presidential Pardon Tied to Large Financial Transactions
Joel, you know, this report is making headlines. I think, you know, this is October before the midterm, so it's unsurprising, maybe that this story is gaining some traction right now. But it does, it does make us question, you know, some of these perhaps, pay for play schemes that are being alleged in Washington, including in exchange for a pardon. Yeah.
Joel Griffith Well, thanks for having me on today. And when, I was in law school, my professor, Professor Doty, we were talking about contract law, used to always tell us we need to see if this passes the smell test. And that's basically saying sometimes transactions activities might appear legal on the surface. We need to dig a bit deeper and actually ask if ethics are at play here. And to be clear, in this situation, this, gentleman, Julio, he was under federal investigation, already pled guilty to a misdemeanor, related to federal bribery charges regarding the Puerto Rico governor. But he wanted a full pardon. And look at the money flow. Here's a person that had his daughter funneled $3.5 million to a Trump related super PAC. And then the president's former lawyer. This is where it just becomes so strange. She takes a $50 million contract with a company that was being formed by this person who was seeking a pardon. And I'm not going to begrudge a lawyer for earning $50 million. I certainly wouldn't mind earning $10 million plus annually. I'm not there yet in the nonprofit world. But what was she doing for that 10 to $12 million a year at this upstart company? We don't really know. But what we do know is that as a lawyer who was formerly working directly for President Trump, she had contacts and connections, in particular a friendship with the President of the United States. And that's where this situation just doesn't pass the smell test. We have a very wealthy billionaire business person accused of bribery who had pled guilty to a crime and funneled $50 million. President Trump's friend or former attorney, and now fully pardoned. Something does not pass the smell test.
Legal and Ethical Questions Surrounding Pardon Power, Conflicts of Interest, and Bribery Allegations
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and, and I fully agree with that. I mean, just based on the reporting that we know so far, and so where may be the liability Here between, you know, the three different main actors, Alena Haba, who was reportedly serving as a special government employee at the Justice Department while also working for this private company. I mean, that raises potential conflict of interest. Ah, restrictions, ethics, laws, all of that. Then you have, the, the person, Julio, who received the pardon himself, you have the daughter as well. But then we also have the issue of the president's pardon power that is really extraordinary and almost unchecked, really. at least in the text of the Constitution. And from, you know, Biden's auto pen all the way to some of these stories, it seems like it's becoming more of a bipartisan issue to say maybe there should be some restraints or at least ability or a legal mechanism for challenging or even overturning a presidential pardon. If evidence later emerges it was connected to some kind of, for example, corrupt arrangement. Yeah.
Joel Griffith And really the deeper problem here is this is, beginning to undermine American space in our system. In years gone by, if we had a former presidential attorney taking in $50 million from a company related to a criminal seeking a pardon, there would be red flags. It would be Republicans and Democrats raising the alarm bells. And this is where in former years we'd have the Department of Justice and possibly even the FBI digging into this situation with this $50 million. Not because we don't want people to earn a good living, but the problem is whether or not that $50 million is really, compensation for legitimate legal services performed in her private capacity in relation to a newly formed company, or if that $50 million was really in exchange for her to use her connections with the president in order to secure that pardon. This is something for the proper legal officials to be looking into. If you. It's sad that it takes the media and people like yourself and me to raise the alarms. This should be an automatic red flag for Congress and for the oversight Committee. And perhaps we do need to see, either the pardon power reigned, in constitutionally, or at the very least, tighter parameters placed on what kind of compensation current and former administration officials can take from criminals who are seeking the pardon.
The Nature of Pardons, Legitimate Advocacy vs. Criminal Bribery, and Congressional Oversight
And to be clear on these pardons, these aren't, pardons to people that are, that committed crimes, low level crimes earlier on their lives, and they're looking for, a chance to redeem themselves, or they already have shown that they're making their lives better. Many of these pardons are going to some of the most crooked people on the planet, people that have different frauded investors, people that have, Marketed a lot of folks in the crypto world, the meme coin world, they have fleeced regular Americans and become enormously wealthy. And these are often the ones that are securing presidential pardons in the Trump administration.
Jenna Ellis M. And that again, it just really doesn't pass the smell test. Because historically, I mean, presidential pardon and also on the state level is supposed to be the last measure of justice when all other remedies have failed. And it is supposed to be in extraordinary circumstances where justice wasn't correctly administered. Not, certainly not in exchange for money or influence or you know, this kind of bargain for exchange that you can essentially purchase it. But federal law, so let's talk about that because, you know, bribery versus Lawful influence, because federal law does permit people to hire attorneys and lobbyists to advocate for presidential pardons. So where exactly does or should legitimate advocacy end and criminal bribery begin?
Joel Griffith well, certainly if someone were currently employed within an administration and decided to take someone's case to the president or work its way through the justice system, a pardon case, if that person were to receive compensation during or have some type of agreement where they'd receive compensation after, that would be a criminal activity. Now it's fine, in some cases to use the influence that you've developed, whether it's working for Congress or working for the president, to use that influence, to help people petition their government for a redress of grievances. And that petitioning the government can include, yes, a request for a pardon, that is, perfectly legitimate once you're no longer serving. But if you are using your influence, at the time that you are working to begin securing this type of deal, that creates serious ethical concerns and potentially criminal liability. And second of all, Congress has a role to play here, in ensuring that those who serve in the administration cannot immediately turn around and use their connections to engage in pardon requests. I think we can all agree there's a big difference in obtaining, a release for criminal activity and say, working on behalf of ah, a company who is trying to maneuver through the regulatory process.
Investigating Pardon Abuse and the Public's Declining Confidence in Government Integrity
In one instance you have someone who is abiding by the law, just trying to make sense of the bureaucratic maze in D.C. in the other situation you have somebody who has victimized others, whether physically or whether monetarily, and they're attempting to use influence to give themselves a special break. I believe that's an abuse of influence.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And I think that is very clear and it's unfortunate that it doesn't seem like there are a lot of checks on this particular power and when you have the current DOJ and the White House, you know, denying these allegations, where does the investigation go from here? I mean, is it, is it up to, Congress, as you know, the independent co. Equal branch, to, begin to investigate more, or is this, perhaps for the next administration? I mean, where would an investigation go from here?
Joel Griffith Well, this might, actually require the Oversight Committee, House Oversight Committee to jump in. Now. That's likely to change hand, control after the election. Right now, Republicans, of course, control the House. it shouldn't take oversight of Congress to investigate this type of activity. Sadly, I don't have much confidence in the current Justice Department, to ensure that the role does the matter forward. We've got a lot of issues and I'm not sure, the President is very eager to move, forward on an investigation as all. Because after all, we see time and time again this president during this term has been pardoning those that have been convicted of serious white collar crimes. And I think that term, white collar crime, it often sounds as if that's victimless, but no white collar crime. These are not victimless crimes. These are often families, business owners that have had their investments sucked out of them by unscrupulous actors. And I think it's, just unfortunate that this administration continues to let many of these individuals escape justice.
The Importance of Objective Investigations into Potential Corruption Regardless of Administration
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And I think it's important, you know, for a lot of our listeners who, have supported the Trump administration generally, you know, support the Trump mandate and all of that, it's important for us to continue to be solid conservatives and say if there are questions around this, it doesn't actually matter that it's the Trump administration or Republican administration or whether, you know, these are the Biden pardons. I mean, that's where the law needs to be objective and not party specific. And so I think that this should be investigated. And so what authority does Congress actually have to investigate this even if they can't reverse some of these pardons themselves?
Joel Griffith Well, Congress has a lot of subpoena power, certainly more than we do under foia, to look into, for instance, emails that could have gone back and forth between, the lawyer, between, her, especially during her time working officially as a Trump administration official. This, is where it would get very interesting. If the evidence would show communications while she was serving the federal government and serving the taxpayers, communications about request for pardon activity, Congress has a lot of power to subpoena those, documents that Were, created in her official, capacity. But once again, regardless of the, any illegality that occurred, this is really a blow to public confidence in government. When you have a high ranking official, a friend of the president, an attorney for the friend who was on the taxpayer dollar, who once was actually appointed to a federal judgeship, when you see her personally taking in tens of millions of dollars from a billionaire who's already been convicted of a crime, and she's able to use her connections to secure him a pardon, this, it doesn't sit well with the American people. There's a reason right now in polling data, look at the top concerns of American people right up along a cost of living, affordability, inflation is corruption in the US Government. And corruption has been a problem for years, of course, but the level at which the American people are saying this is a top concern, it has been rising over the past few years. And it's been rising exactly because of stories like this, because of current and former administration officials either unethically or sometimes illegally using their influence to secure themselves special favors and securing themselves special favors. Whether it's a get out of jail card or whether it's tens of millions of dollars flowing in from government subsidies, whatever those special breaks are, they're getting the special breaks at a time when American families are really feeling an economic squeeze. and that's why seeing this is incredibly disappointing.
The Need for Checks on Pardon Power and Fair Investigations into Government Corruption
We need to clean up our act. Yeah.
Jenna Ellis So well said and I couldn't agree more. And I think that Congress needs to take a closer look at this. There needs to be remedies for corruption and we may need to also look at a constitutional amendment that there is a check perhaps, for the power of pardon. I wish that there was a check for, you know, the auto pin with Biden. I mean this isn't just about the Trump administration. It's not just about the Biden administration. This ultimately is about the objective standard that we need to be able to rely on in terms of where the government is actually using its resources. Is there corruption? And it doesn't matter whether it's Trump or Biden. If there is an issue here, we need to look at it fairly and honestly. So, Jill Griffith, really appreciate it so much. You can follow him on X Senior fellow at advancing American freedom. And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna fr.netpreborn has rescued
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Sponsor Thank You and Introduction to Biblical Worldview and Constitutional Obligations
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Jenna Ellis I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you.
Discussion on Extreme Political Candidates and the Hamas Truck Incident in Dearborn
And God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Jenna Ellis Good morning. It is Thursday, October 22nd, and as we are headed into the midterms, there continues to be this question, like, who is actually voting for some of these really extreme, frankly, you know, insane in terms of their worldview type of candidates? like Abdul El Said, and, you know, and James Talarico, others. And you just wonder, you know, what is the mindset of people who are actually saying, yeah, I think that the values of those individuals should lead this country. I mean, it's, it's just fascinating. Well, my good friend David Brody, who is the chief political analyst for CBN News, posted this really wild clip on X. And if you're not following him, you should be at D. Brody reports. but he says this. Look what we found when we went to Dearborn, Michigan. The Hamas truck. What? It proudly displays Hamas on its license plate. Palestinian flags flying, anti Israel messages plastered everywhere. And we spoke to the owner. Guess who he says he supports for U.S. senate? Yep, you guessed it, Abdul, El Said. So watch his radical comments about El Said, Jews and Hitler and more and more. And so this whole interview, this clip is about six minutes, so we're not going to play all of that, but we have something even better.
Interview with David Brody About the Hamas Truck Driver and His Radical Views
David, Brody himself joins us this morning. And David, I did listen to this whole interview and I'm just sitting here watching this dude who has a T shirt that, you know, has really bold letters that says Zionism is not Judaism. I mean, you know, this guy might as well have like all the coexist bumper stickers everywhere. And you know, like, I, I don't even know where to start on this but first of all, how did you come across this guy? And what's beyond the obvious? I mean, what's the context here?
David Brody Well, thanks for having me, Jenna. And, before I give you the backstory, let me just say, thank you for definitely having me as a step up over the Hamas truck driver in terms of being the interview.
Jenna Ellis You know, we get only the best. Yeah, absolutely.
David Brody I appreciate it. Look, this is a, this is like a godwink moment. And I can quickly explain it. That morning, my cameraman and I were praying, for the Lord to bring us people, that would reveal the truth about this Michigan Senate race. and we were going to Dearborn. Actually, we were in Toledo, Ohio that morning, covering the Ohio Senate race, and we were heading to Dearborn and we had m. Said that prayer and we prayed a good five minutes actually in the car about this. We get to Dearborn and we're meeting a pastor and other people that, are praying for the city of Dearborn has a separate story that will be coming up later on on CBN in a few weeks. and then all of a sudden we're this park in Dearborn and this guy, the Hamas truck driver, literally drives his truck into this parking lot and just hangs out. No particular reason, he wasn't there for an event. He just decided to park his truck right there. Hello, God, you are on the throne. It's a godwink moment. We're like, hello, that could be good for our story. and so indeed we spoke to him. You can see the video there on X, that I posted. and he's got the whole truck, the whole nine yards, the Hamas license plate. Zionism is not Judaism. he called himself a so called Christian who converted, to Islam. I mean, which is wild stuff to begin with. Anyhow.
Observations on Dearborn, Michigan and its Muslim Population's Impact on the Senate Race
how do I say it, Jen? I mean, it's literally hell on wheels is what it is. And, and the fact that it was in Dearborn, Michigan, kind of is apropos, if you will. just because of that, what I, what I saw in Dearborn, which you can have me back on, I guess, another time if you like. I like how I'm inviting myself on your show at this point.
Jenna Ellis You're welcome.
David Brody But you can have me back, you can have me back on to talk about what's going on in Dearborn specifically, because what I saw, I've never seen, an American city like Dearborn at all. And I'm not being hyperbolic at all. I'm literally, I'VE never seen anything like it. Just in terms of, so Muslims everywhere in the streets, Arabic signs everywhere. It's not an enclave, it's an entire city. It's wild. But anyhow, back to this guy. yeah, he's off his rocker. And I was just praying, honestly, during that time because, you know, he needs the Lord and he needs a lot of prayer because, he's off his rocker. Yeah.
Jenna Ellis And, you know, in this truck in the back, it has a sign. Israel's worst nightmare. And, you know, all these things. And, so this is, of course, about the Michigan Senate race. And do people like this vote? I mean, did he indicate that he's actually planning to engage and vote, or is this more of a spectacle for him?
David Brody No, he says he's going to vote for El Sayed. you know, now let's be clear. And you know, this is where he gets a little murky. A lot of people will say, well, this is your typical El Said voter. I don't necessarily buy that, but what I do know is that that's part of the, part of the radical fringe that is buying in, to what El Said is pitching. And, you know, our story up there in Michigan was actually beyond Dearborn. it was actually going to West Bloomfield, Michigan and other places where there are heavily Jewish population talking to Jewish democr. I spoke to many Jewish Democrats on the ground there. We're talking about liberal Jews. One guy calls himself an atheist Jew. And we can get into that in a separate. That feels like a Dr. Phil issue, honestly. But, these are not your Orthodox Jews who are against El Sayed. These are liberal Jews that would vote for a Democrat but cannot get there with El Sayed. And these liberal Jews that I spoke to on camera, are mobilizing. They're literally mobilizing for Mike Rogers in Michigan. I think it's palpable there. And so there's a story in, in this Michigan Senate race because there's a lot of subsets, right? I mean, you know, of course evangelicals are important in any, in any state. but beyond all of that, you've got the African American population, obviously, very important. But really, if you think about it, Jews and Muslims in Michigan will decide this election. You know, Mike Rogers only won by 20,000 votes last time in 2020. Excus.
Analysis of Michigan Senate Race Demographics: Jews and Muslims as Key Voters
Lost by 20,000 votes last time In 2024. It's going to be a very close election. Jews represent about 1% of the population of Michigan, 130,000 people. Muslims represent almost 2%. It's about 1 1/2 percent, 250,000 people. But when you're talking about an election this close, Jews, Democrat, Jews mobilizing for Mike Rogers could very well make the difference. Jenna. Wow.
Jenna Ellis And, you know, it's incredible and to look at some of these races and the stories that are coming out, but in Dearborn specifically, I mean, you mentioned that it feels, you know, very Muslim and you know, as you were describing, kind of that, that overall feel and then it doesn't even feel American. Honestly, David.
Comparing Dearborn's Muslim Community to Israel and Discussing Homegrown vs. Imported Ideologies
I mean, the one time I've had the privilege of actually visiting, Israel, I was actually really surprised at how many Muslims were there as well and how it didn't feel the. I think the context of scripture and biblical that, that I sort of anticipated. you know, and maybe we, we tend to romanticize, you know, some of these historical places, just because of those contexts. But, but when we're looking at, at some of these cities that, you know, whether it's Israel or it's America that, you know, really should not have the, the evil that is, the worldview that is perpetuated through Islam, at least when it, it comes to an American city, through your reporting and, and discoveries and all that there, did you get the sense that this is more homegrown? Is this because of the importing of our demise, as people have called it? I mean, what is it that's so unique, I guess, about Dearborn specifically, that so many of these stories are coming from this particular city?
David Brody Well, it's definitely homegrown and it's a lot about where our culture has gone and some of the, that socialism, we call it the red green alliance, as you know, that has, infiltrated, the Democrat party, but not just Democrat Party, the younger generation especially. And so what you see is very much a red green alliance, you know, that communist socialist red and the green of Islam, of course, right there in Dearborn. And we saw it. And once again, I want to be very clear, you know, we've heard the stories about Dearborn. Oh, it's a Muslim city in America. And you know, and everybody's the dire warning signs and everything. And I said to myself, no, don't do that. Go in with open eyes and just literally and a clear mind and from, a spiritual standpoint, have discernment about what is really going on there. And Jenna, I could not look away. I mean, it was everywhere. It was. And this is going to sound like a stand up, funny line, but it really isn't. Which is like, hey, save some airfare. Don't go to the Middle East. Just go to Dearborn, because it is a. It's like I felt like I went to Gaza. It's like I went to some sort of Middle Eastern city, there. And I'm not playing around. I mean, like I said, it's not enclaves. It's the entire city. Storefront, after storefront in Arabic. less English. M. More Arabic. The, Dearborn, actually city guy that you pick up in their chamber of commerce is half English, half Arabic. and it's about, you know, 50 pages. So 25 in Arabic, 25 in English. it's just wild stuff. And, you know, they have the largest Muslim m. Ah, excuse me. The largest mosque in America there in Dearborn.
Exploring Hamtramck's Muslim Majority and Controversial Animal Sacrifice Ordinance
And what's interesting is that you go outside of Dearborn about 15 minutes or so, and there's Hamtramck. And a lot of people don't talk about Hamtramck. But, you probably know, ah, as well, Jenna, that that is a huge Muslim American city here. As a matter of fact, 70% of the population in Hamtramck is Muslim. About 50 to 55% is Muslim in Dearborn, but 70% in Hamtramck. We went there, and they are more Yemeni in dissent, if you will. So you see the full burqas, and literally, it's burka after burka. I am not playing around. I'll send you the pictures. I'll send you the video. we'll post it. It's wild stuff. It's like, wait, this is America. And once again, I'm not talking about freedom of religion, freedom of expression, all of that. Fine. But. But just to visually see. That was wild. And let me just say one last thing, Jenna, about Hamtramck, which we'll be reporting on. they have an ordinance there in Hamtramck that allows animal sacrifice. this is something the city council passed. Now, we're not talking about animals like cats and dogs, but we are talking about goats and sheep that you can literally. And this comes, of course, from a lot of the Muslim holy days. So they literally. A Muslim city council, a majority Muslim city council in Hamtramck passed an ordinance, regarding animal sacrifice.
Debating Islam's Compatibility with the West and the Importance of Culture in Governance
So if you want to sacrifice an animal, a goat or sheep or some other livestock in your home, it is allowed. This is going on in America, Jenna.
Jenna Ellis Wow. And see, and this is where for the Christians who say, you know, well, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, you know, that's so important. And so we can't, suggest that, you know, Islam and this religion is somehow incompatible with the West. Well, obviously it is. And we're not just talking about the freedom to believe. just like, you know, your neighbor could, could believe the earth is flat and, you know, the government's not going to come and punish him for it. But when you're talking about legislating and you're talking about that belief, then contradicting the codified morality that's based on the biblical worldview here in the United States, then we have a problem. And this is why belief always leads to a, worldview and then leads to what you believe is legitimate for government and what, what government should permit our own actions to do. I mean, that's why, you know, Breitbart famously said, politics is downstream from culture. And so when we're talking about such a completely different culture, this is why all of these things are so incompatible with the west and why elections matter. Because if we continue in even certain isolated pockets in the United States to
Jenna Ellis vote in people who are going to
Jenna Ellis change, you know, they're.
The Impact of Local Elections and Citizen Engagement in Preserving American Values
They're city, council codifications are going to change, you know, some of these, these statutes and some of these allowances, then eventually that's going to become bigger and bigger. And so, you know, where do you, where do you see that we can maybe make an inroad, just saving the overall value system that is supposed to undergird our law in the United States when you come to cities like this. Because I think for a lot of us who aren't in Dearborn, Michigan, and some of these places, I mean, this is kind of wild. And I think it's a little bit odd for a lot of people to think that this is happening contemporaneously in the United States.
David Brody Yeah, it starts right in front of you. And, you may know Pastor Rob McCoy, he's a good friend of mine, who. One of his famous sermons that I love is where he says, take care of your own bean patch right in front of you. And what that means is whether it be your city council, your pta, whatever's happening in your local community, because you can look at Washington and go, oh, gosh, I throw up my hands. Forget about it. These people are all crazy. Don't do that. Go in and care about what's in front of you right there in your city council pta, your kids, your grandkids, whatever it is, get out of the pews. And get to work. And I think that's where it's starts. I think if we start to look at it at a national level, we can feel a bit helpless and hopeless. But I think if you look at it locally, that's at least where you
Jenna Ellis can get some motivation about on this. But we've got a run. Follow him at D. Brody Reports. We'll be right back.
Introduction of Whistleblower Initiative to Combat Government Fraud and Waste
Jenna Ellis Hi, I'm Jenna Ellis. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.netgive that's afr.net give welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis President Trump and Vice President J.D. vance are taking a new approach to rooting out government fraud paying Americans to help expose it. So the administration has announced this week a $25 million whistleblower initiative that could reward individuals who uncover fraud involving taxpayer dollars. So the idea is simple. Americans work hard for their money and the government has responsibility to ensure those dollars aren't being stolen, wasted or funneled into fraudulent stuff schemes. But just how widespread is the fraud in federal programs? And why hasn't the government been able to stop it already? Could empowering ordinary citizens to become whistleblowers finally bring some much needed accountability to Washington? Well, let's welcome in Raechel Gressler, who is a senior research fellow for Advancing American Freedom. And Raechel, let's start with the basics. How exactly will this new whistleblower program work and what kinds of fraud and is the administration hoping Americans will help uncover?
Rachel Greszler Yes. Good morning. Thank you, Jenna. so this new whistleblower incentive, program, acronym is WIP, is going to offer rewards to individuals between 10,000 and $30,000 if they provide information that leads to criminal charges, related to fraud in certain areas. And this is different than the current system in which individuals can come forward with such information. But it could take a decade before they might even see the end of what that outcome, is and potentially get reward for that.
Discussion on the Scale of Fraud, Its Detection Challenges, and Program Sustainability
And so fraud in the US Is enormous. the problem is we don't actually know exactly how much is out there because we find very little of it. Over recent years it's been like maybe $10 billion per year in known fraud. certainly the current administration has increase that significantly. But gao, report, the Government Accountability Office of nonpartisan organization says that Americans lose between 230 and about $520 billion per year to fraud. And that's a huge number that amounts to about two weeks of mortgage payments or rent payments for every household in America at the upper end. So there's potentially an enormous amount of fraud out there, but it can be really difficult to find. And I think that this new, whistleblower incentive program is an important step of the bigger picture of cracking down on fraud, because it will allow an individual to be able to have a role and feel like, hey, if I bring this information forward, the government's actually going to act on it. I think that's part of the problem right now is that people don't really know if anything's going to happen if they bring forward, some information that they might have. And so this is one important step. I think that it will be part of a broader initiative that's going to have to happen, including Congress as well, to really fight fraud.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And it seems like with this program being started by the Trump administration, is it possible that it would be phased out after President Trump's term ends? Or is this something that is supposed to be a little more lasting because it will take a while, as you said, to get to the root of even some of the complaints that are being brought forward initially.
Rachel Greszler Yes, that's an important point. It could be phased out by a new administration unless Congress did something to codify it into law, to make it permanent. And so while it will have some impact, for sure in the short run, some of these investigations can take a significant amount of time. and it is. It's providing these rewards significantly earlier than they used to be possible because it will give them as soon as a criminal charge is brought forward. But even that could take a while because there's a lot of investigation that goes on behind these.
Distinguishing Criminal Fraud from Government Inefficiency and Abuse in Spending
so certainly some of the rewards, I think, will. Will be seen in the short term, but others could play out over a longer period of time. And so it is important, to keep this program going if Congress wants to do that, to put it into law.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And you know, the numbers that you mentioned, that is just an exorbitant amount of waste and fraud. And so how much of this. Do we know how much of this is actually criminal fraud as opposed to government inefficiency or irresponsible spending? I mean, we saw some of the numbers coming out of doge that Congress was spending and just right before our eyes, and really nothing or not much has been done about some of that waste.
Rachel Greszler Yes, there's both, you know, there's waste and there's fraud, and there's also some level of abuse. and so the fraud alone is the figure that I was talking about. This is like brazen criminal activity. and that's the figure that's between 230 and about $520 billion. On top of that, we know that the government measures and reports about $185 billion per year in improper payments. And those are just amounts that are sent out to the wrong people or in the wrong amount. And most of those are errors. Some of it has to do with eligibility that may or may not be fraudulent. It could have been a mistake. But within those improper payments, less than 10 billion of that is reported as known fraud. So there's the errors, there's the outrage fraud, and then there's also abuse. When you have, you know, welfare programs like food stamps and you allow categorical eligibility so that people who are actually millionaires can legally qualify, you know, that doesn't count as fraud and it doesn't count as an improper payment. But certainly that's not what the program was intended for. And so there is, you know, as a whole, there are hundreds of billions of dollars out there that American taxpayers should not be paying for. And yet they are.
Jenna Ellis Yeah.
Jenna Ellis I mean, how does fraud on this scale, how has it continued for years without being detected?
Challenges in Government Self-Policing and the Need for Transparency in Fund Tracking
I mean, is this just that we realistically can't expect government agencies to police themselves?
Rachel Greszler Well, I think we should expect them to. You know, taxpayers. We have to meticulously track all the income we earn and report it to the IRS and fill out all those forms and file it. And we know that they're going to come after us if, we aren't able to take account of all of our, income that's coming in. And so I think that a big step for Congress is actually enacting a law that would require the same transparency and accountability on the federal government as they require of taxpayers. and a big, big part of the thing here is we're Talking about over $4 trillion in benefits, mostly through the welfare system that are transferred every year. And some of that is directly from the federal government to individuals. but a lot of it goes to state governments first, and then a lot of it goes down to other benefit provide providers. you know, we're talking about like the child care programs and the providers for Medicaid and even the ones that are issuing like scooters and other medical devices. And we really just lose track of where that money goes once it leaves the treasury, for the most part. And so I think that we just need to. It could be pretty simple to enact legislation that requires Congress to follow the money every step from the treasury to whatever level it goes to, so that you can track it to an individual. And if it's not shown up on a tax form at the end, if you can't match it, there's the immediate red flag, and that's where you know that you can start following the money. The problem right now is that you, you know, we have these instances, but there's really no tracking of where has the money come from and gone to. and so I think that getting that infrastructure in place first could massively increase the amount of fraud prevention that we can have in America.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, I mean, and these cases reveal a lot. just the instances that you talked about. You know, the childcare, food assistance, welfare, all of these things about real vulnerabilities and how taxpayer money is distributed. And it seems like in 2026, when we can track, you know, even a payment authentication number for something as simple as, you know, the $20 burrito transaction from, like, you know, Sell or Venmo or something, it's seems like it's very easy in this day to actually follow that money and make sure that it's distributed properly.
Government Lagging Private Sector and the Role of Citizens as Government Watchdogs
And so why, why do you think Congress hasn't addressed this until now? I mean, is it just that they don't want the accountability?
Rachel Greszler Well, the government's always behind the private sector in virtually everything. and yes, you know, a lot of these programs realize that significant amounts of money are being wasted, and if they start following it, then there's going to be less support for programs to begin with. but that doesn't have to be the case. I mean, if you're talking about, like, food stamps, you want that money to go to the individuals who need assistance with food. You don't want it to be wasted, going to somebody that is a millionaire or going to a criminal, overseas. And you also don't want it to be stolen from the individual's SNAP card that they get, which is happening today. And then they have no recourse and aren't actually getting the benefits that they should be getting. So I think that this should be a bipartisan, effort to just make sure that the money that taxpayers have put people in Congress to approve spending is going to the sources that it's supposed to be.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, absolutely. And one of the interesting aspects of this initiative is that the administration is essentially inviting ordinary Americans to become watchdogs over their own government. Which, you know, conservatives for a long time have wanted that and there have been other, you know, methods of, of being, watchdogs. But, but a lot of times that's a little bit more of an adversarial kind of relationship and it ends in, you know, more litigation, you know, some of, of the sunshine laws, you know, some of those things. And so do you think that this marks a significant shift in how we think about government accountability and our own ability as citizens to require that when it's our money? I mean, the government is not entitled. Maybe just because they can forcibly, take it from us because of the tax laws right now, it doesn't mean that somehow they're not accountable to us.
Rachel Greszler Yes, absolutely. And I hope that Americans do feel like they can have a role in this and they can help to protect the integrity of taxpayers money. because that hasn't been the case to date.
Simplifying the Whistleblower Process and Types of Fraud Individuals Can Report
And I think that this whistleblower incentive program, will let them know, like I've gone to the website itself and it's like very easy to see, like hey, here's where I click the button and I think to have them to have some buy in and that, and know that they can be rewarded and also that the government wants them to do this and that they are going to be willing to cooperate with them. I think that right now the government can either seem adversarial or like a black box and if I, you know, raise a red flag and call something into question, either they're going to dismiss me or they're going to make me, you know, spend tens of hours per week filling out paperwork and going to all these buildings and it's going to be so burdensome that I'm not even going to bother. I, think this makes it a relatively simple process and helps individuals know that the government wants them to be a part of this.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And so I mean, how much evidence would an ordinary American need before reporting suspected fraud? I mean what, what types of instances are we anticipating from this program that would separate a legitimate whistleblower tip from maybe just a, an unsubstantiated allegation or somebody, you know, saying, well, government, you need to look into this program because I'm sure that there's fraud somewhere in it.
Rachel Greszler Yes. And certainly there are going to be a lot of things submitted to this that are going to lead to nothing that might not have anything behind it. but I think it will be Important to note that individuals have to a, ah, duty to not report anything that is false. You certainly don't want people to just be trying to get back at somebody. but the amount and types of fraud that could be reported are really endless. You know, it's things like, hey, somebody's caring for an aging parent and they see this Medicare, bill come in that they were charged for receiving a scooter that they never received, or somebody had a hospice bill and the individual actually passed away two years ago, things like that. Where nowadays it's like, oh, well that's too bad. But it was through Medicare. I didn't have to pay for it and I don't really know what to do about this. So I'm just going to ignore it. And now they have an outlet that they can go to, to report that or in the instances that we're seeing documented in the media of whether it's childcare centers or places that are claiming they're providing medical services or claiming they're feeding children and yet you don't see anybody in there. you know, I think there's different levels in which you can go in and as long as you're being truthful, you can say, hey, this looks a little shady based on this evidence or maybe you have a lot of evidence and you've been following the paperwork and you know, you've had your identity stolen yourself, and you actually have significant information that you can provide.
Jenna Ellis I'm speaking with Raechel Gressler, who's a senior research fellow for Advancing American Freedom.
Replicating Whistleblower Programs at State Levels and Enhancing Intergovernmental Cooperation
And you know, it seems like there's a lot of renewed interest on Americans part, because of doge. So at least there were some success in bringing attention to this issue. And we've seen in states like my home state of Florida, the kind of DOGE on the state level is this program that, that Trump and Vance are initiating, could this be replicated on the state or even local level as well?
Rachel Greszler Yes, absolutely. And actually we're going to need cooperation since a lot of the programs, the welfare programs are paid for at least in part, if not in full by the federal government and then run by the states. but the states also have a stake in that. And then there are certain programs that are exclusively state run. and so I think that this would set an example and potentially we could see some states that they might want to set up, you know, their own whistleblower incentive programs. and certainly we want to have more coordination coming out of this. And I think that actually the federal government should be requiring, coordination and cooperation, including data sharing, in any program in which they're sending money to states or to other entities.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And so what would you consider the most meaningful measure of success here? I mean, the amount of fraud uncovered. Are we tying this to the number of prosecutions, the money recovered, or, or reforms that prevent fraud from happening in the first place, or, you know, maybe a combination of all of that? Mm,
Defining Success Metrics for the Whistleblower Initiative and Government Accountability
Rachel Greszler I think at first a measure of success is the amount of fraud uncovered. and certainly once you start uncovering fraud, that becomes a deterrence to future fraud. And so we would want to see that figure go down because we want there to actually be less fraud to be discovered in the future. and also seeing a reduction in total spending for some of these programs where you have upwards of 10%, in improper payments and an unknown amount in fraud. so we could see huge savings in just the amount of assistance that's going out because it's not being stolen.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, yeah. And that's where I, you know, just from my personal opinion, seeing what was uncovered with Doge and the fact that Congress is actually spending on so many programs that if the American people actually got a say in this and, and had to vote on some of these measures, there's no way that we would send, our taxpayer money to Congress in order to, for them to have those types of expenditures. And it just seems like they're, they have a blank check to basically just spend on whatever they prefer. But there's no real accountability, for the American people. So, you know, this is a really good first step. but Raechel, I really appreciate the, kind of deeper dive into how this program might work.
Jenna Ellis And you know, at the end of
Jenna Ellis the day, this is about something much bigger than just a whistleblower program. It's about the fundamental responsibility of government to be accountable to the people it serves. Because taxpayer dollars, like I said, aren't the government's money. They represent the hard work, sacrifice, livelihoods and personal property of Americans who are compelled to hand over, in my opinion, a way too big of a portion of what we earn. With the expectation, though, that those resources will be used responsibly. And from a biblical perspective, stewardship isn't optional. We need to, to expect integrity and accountability from our government. And so this is a great initiative. so public service is a public trust. And we'll be right back with more.
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Investigation into Alleged Bribery Scheme Involving Presidential Pardon and Former Attorney
welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis Well, speaking of whistleblowers and corruption and fraud, a bombshell investigation from the NewSong York Times this week is raising serious questions about a presidential pardon from President Trump, a Venezuelan billionaire, and a $50 million deal involving one of President Trump's former personal attorneys. So, according to the report from the NewSong York Times, billionaire banker, Julio Herrera Velutini, if I'm pronouncing that right, was facing federal corruption charges involving an alleged bribery scheme in Puerto Rico. After negotiating a plea agreement that reduced his criminal exposure to a misdemeanor campaign finance offense, Herrera continued to seek a presidential pardon. His family, according to the report, subsequently hired Alena Haba, President Trump's former personal attorney and a Justice Department adviser, though, through a deal that reportedly was guaranteeing her more than $50 million over four years. Herrera's daughter also contributed millions to a pro Trump political committee and pledged money toward the White House ballroom project. So, just two weeks after Haba formally began her new position, President Trump granted Herrera a full and unconditional pardon. So, to be clear, Haba categorically denies any involvement in securing that pardon. And the White House and the Justice Department have denied that she played a role in the decision. the president does have extraordinarily broad constitutional authority to grant pardons. But that brings us to the legal questions at the center of this story, where is the line between lawful legal representation, political influence, and potentially criminal corruption? Does the Constitution's pardon power have any meaningful limitations? And what evidence would actually be necessary to establish wrongdoing rather than simply the appearance of impropriety? Let's welcome in Joel Griffith, who is a senior fellow at Advancing American Freedom and an attorney.
Analyzing the 'Smell Test' of a Presidential Pardon Tied to Large Financial Transactions
Joel, you know, this report is making headlines. I think, you know, this is October before the midterm, so it's unsurprising, maybe that this story is gaining some traction right now. But it does, it does make us question, you know, some of these perhaps, pay for play schemes that are being alleged in Washington, including in exchange for a pardon. Yeah.
Joel Griffith Well, thanks for having me on today. And when, I was in law school, my professor, Professor Doty, we were talking about contract law, used to always tell us we need to see if this passes the smell test. And that's basically saying sometimes transactions activities might appear legal on the surface. We need to dig a bit deeper and actually ask if ethics are at play here. And to be clear, in this situation, this, gentleman, Julio, he was under federal investigation, already pled guilty to a misdemeanor, related to federal bribery charges regarding the Puerto Rico governor. But he wanted a full pardon. And look at the money flow. Here's a person that had his daughter funneled $3.5 million to a Trump related super PAC. And then the president's former lawyer. This is where it just becomes so strange. She takes a $50 million contract with a company that was being formed by this person who was seeking a pardon. And I'm not going to begrudge a lawyer for earning $50 million. I certainly wouldn't mind earning $10 million plus annually. I'm not there yet in the nonprofit world. But what was she doing for that 10 to $12 million a year at this upstart company? We don't really know. But what we do know is that as a lawyer who was formerly working directly for President Trump, she had contacts and connections, in particular a friendship with the President of the United States. And that's where this situation just doesn't pass the smell test. We have a very wealthy billionaire business person accused of bribery who had pled guilty to a crime and funneled $50 million. President Trump's friend or former attorney, and now fully pardoned. Something does not pass the smell test.
Legal and Ethical Questions Surrounding Pardon Power, Conflicts of Interest, and Bribery Allegations
Jenna Ellis Yeah, and, and I fully agree with that. I mean, just based on the reporting that we know so far, and so where may be the liability Here between, you know, the three different main actors, Alena Haba, who was reportedly serving as a special government employee at the Justice Department while also working for this private company. I mean, that raises potential conflict of interest. Ah, restrictions, ethics, laws, all of that. Then you have, the, the person, Julio, who received the pardon himself, you have the daughter as well. But then we also have the issue of the president's pardon power that is really extraordinary and almost unchecked, really. at least in the text of the Constitution. And from, you know, Biden's auto pen all the way to some of these stories, it seems like it's becoming more of a bipartisan issue to say maybe there should be some restraints or at least ability or a legal mechanism for challenging or even overturning a presidential pardon. If evidence later emerges it was connected to some kind of, for example, corrupt arrangement. Yeah.
Joel Griffith And really the deeper problem here is this is, beginning to undermine American space in our system. In years gone by, if we had a former presidential attorney taking in $50 million from a company related to a criminal seeking a pardon, there would be red flags. It would be Republicans and Democrats raising the alarm bells. And this is where in former years we'd have the Department of Justice and possibly even the FBI digging into this situation with this $50 million. Not because we don't want people to earn a good living, but the problem is whether or not that $50 million is really, compensation for legitimate legal services performed in her private capacity in relation to a newly formed company, or if that $50 million was really in exchange for her to use her connections with the president in order to secure that pardon. This is something for the proper legal officials to be looking into. If you. It's sad that it takes the media and people like yourself and me to raise the alarms. This should be an automatic red flag for Congress and for the oversight Committee. And perhaps we do need to see, either the pardon power reigned, in constitutionally, or at the very least, tighter parameters placed on what kind of compensation current and former administration officials can take from criminals who are seeking the pardon.
The Nature of Pardons, Legitimate Advocacy vs. Criminal Bribery, and Congressional Oversight
And to be clear on these pardons, these aren't, pardons to people that are, that committed crimes, low level crimes earlier on their lives, and they're looking for, a chance to redeem themselves, or they already have shown that they're making their lives better. Many of these pardons are going to some of the most crooked people on the planet, people that have different frauded investors, people that have, Marketed a lot of folks in the crypto world, the meme coin world, they have fleeced regular Americans and become enormously wealthy. And these are often the ones that are securing presidential pardons in the Trump administration.
Jenna Ellis M. And that again, it just really doesn't pass the smell test. Because historically, I mean, presidential pardon and also on the state level is supposed to be the last measure of justice when all other remedies have failed. And it is supposed to be in extraordinary circumstances where justice wasn't correctly administered. Not, certainly not in exchange for money or influence or you know, this kind of bargain for exchange that you can essentially purchase it. But federal law, so let's talk about that because, you know, bribery versus Lawful influence, because federal law does permit people to hire attorneys and lobbyists to advocate for presidential pardons. So where exactly does or should legitimate advocacy end and criminal bribery begin?
Joel Griffith well, certainly if someone were currently employed within an administration and decided to take someone's case to the president or work its way through the justice system, a pardon case, if that person were to receive compensation during or have some type of agreement where they'd receive compensation after, that would be a criminal activity. Now it's fine, in some cases to use the influence that you've developed, whether it's working for Congress or working for the president, to use that influence, to help people petition their government for a redress of grievances. And that petitioning the government can include, yes, a request for a pardon, that is, perfectly legitimate once you're no longer serving. But if you are using your influence, at the time that you are working to begin securing this type of deal, that creates serious ethical concerns and potentially criminal liability. And second of all, Congress has a role to play here, in ensuring that those who serve in the administration cannot immediately turn around and use their connections to engage in pardon requests. I think we can all agree there's a big difference in obtaining, a release for criminal activity and say, working on behalf of ah, a company who is trying to maneuver through the regulatory process.
Investigating Pardon Abuse and the Public's Declining Confidence in Government Integrity
In one instance you have someone who is abiding by the law, just trying to make sense of the bureaucratic maze in D.C. in the other situation you have somebody who has victimized others, whether physically or whether monetarily, and they're attempting to use influence to give themselves a special break. I believe that's an abuse of influence.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And I think that is very clear and it's unfortunate that it doesn't seem like there are a lot of checks on this particular power and when you have the current DOJ and the White House, you know, denying these allegations, where does the investigation go from here? I mean, is it, is it up to, Congress, as you know, the independent co. Equal branch, to, begin to investigate more, or is this, perhaps for the next administration? I mean, where would an investigation go from here?
Joel Griffith Well, this might, actually require the Oversight Committee, House Oversight Committee to jump in. Now. That's likely to change hand, control after the election. Right now, Republicans, of course, control the House. it shouldn't take oversight of Congress to investigate this type of activity. Sadly, I don't have much confidence in the current Justice Department, to ensure that the role does the matter forward. We've got a lot of issues and I'm not sure, the President is very eager to move, forward on an investigation as all. Because after all, we see time and time again this president during this term has been pardoning those that have been convicted of serious white collar crimes. And I think that term, white collar crime, it often sounds as if that's victimless, but no white collar crime. These are not victimless crimes. These are often families, business owners that have had their investments sucked out of them by unscrupulous actors. And I think it's, just unfortunate that this administration continues to let many of these individuals escape justice.
The Importance of Objective Investigations into Potential Corruption Regardless of Administration
Jenna Ellis Yeah. And I think it's important, you know, for a lot of our listeners who, have supported the Trump administration generally, you know, support the Trump mandate and all of that, it's important for us to continue to be solid conservatives and say if there are questions around this, it doesn't actually matter that it's the Trump administration or Republican administration or whether, you know, these are the Biden pardons. I mean, that's where the law needs to be objective and not party specific. And so I think that this should be investigated. And so what authority does Congress actually have to investigate this even if they can't reverse some of these pardons themselves?
Joel Griffith Well, Congress has a lot of subpoena power, certainly more than we do under foia, to look into, for instance, emails that could have gone back and forth between, the lawyer, between, her, especially during her time working officially as a Trump administration official. This, is where it would get very interesting. If the evidence would show communications while she was serving the federal government and serving the taxpayers, communications about request for pardon activity, Congress has a lot of power to subpoena those, documents that Were, created in her official, capacity. But once again, regardless of the, any illegality that occurred, this is really a blow to public confidence in government. When you have a high ranking official, a friend of the president, an attorney for the friend who was on the taxpayer dollar, who once was actually appointed to a federal judgeship, when you see her personally taking in tens of millions of dollars from a billionaire who's already been convicted of a crime, and she's able to use her connections to secure him a pardon, this, it doesn't sit well with the American people. There's a reason right now in polling data, look at the top concerns of American people right up along a cost of living, affordability, inflation is corruption in the US Government. And corruption has been a problem for years, of course, but the level at which the American people are saying this is a top concern, it has been rising over the past few years. And it's been rising exactly because of stories like this, because of current and former administration officials either unethically or sometimes illegally using their influence to secure themselves special favors and securing themselves special favors. Whether it's a get out of jail card or whether it's tens of millions of dollars flowing in from government subsidies, whatever those special breaks are, they're getting the special breaks at a time when American families are really feeling an economic squeeze. and that's why seeing this is incredibly disappointing.
The Need for Checks on Pardon Power and Fair Investigations into Government Corruption
We need to clean up our act. Yeah.
Jenna Ellis So well said and I couldn't agree more. And I think that Congress needs to take a closer look at this. There needs to be remedies for corruption and we may need to also look at a constitutional amendment that there is a check perhaps, for the power of pardon. I wish that there was a check for, you know, the auto pin with Biden. I mean this isn't just about the Trump administration. It's not just about the Biden administration. This ultimately is about the objective standard that we need to be able to rely on in terms of where the government is actually using its resources. Is there corruption? And it doesn't matter whether it's Trump or Biden. If there is an issue here, we need to look at it fairly and honestly. So, Jill Griffith, really appreciate it so much. You can follow him on X Senior fellow at advancing American freedom. And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna fr.netpreborn has rescued
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Jenna Ellis discusses the alarming political landscape as the midterm elections approach. Joined by David Brody, they delve into the radical ideologies of certain candidates, including Abdul El Sayed, and the implications of a recent controversial encounter with a pro-Hamas truck driver in Dearborn, Michigan. They explore the cultural dynamics at play in Dearborn and the potential influence of Muslim and Jewish voters in the upcoming elections. Additionally, Johnny addresses the new whistleblower initiative launched by the Trump administration aimed at tackling government fraud, emphasizing the need for accountability in managing taxpayer dollars.
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