Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Wednesday morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. I have a question for you. When is the last time that you encountered the green eyed monster? You say the green eyed monster. What is that? Well, it comes from William Shakespeare in his play Othello, the Moor of Venice. And, he wrote these words, o beware, my lord, of jealousy. It is the green eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on. Shakespeare was saying that jealousy will eat you alive. I'm going through a series on the book of Numbers on Sunday morning at First Baptist Texarkana. And last, Sunday, I preached on numbers 12. This is how numbers 12 starts. Then Miriam, that's Moses, oldest sister and older sister. And Eryn, his older brother, spoke against Moses because of the cushite woman whom he had married, for he married a cushite woman. we would read into that, that his wife Zipporah had died and he remarried, remarried this woman from Cush. And they didn't like it. And they said, has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses, has he not spoken through us as well? And the Lord heard it. They were envious and jealous of Moses, and. And they spoke against him. And as you read the chapter, you find that it didn't go well for them, especially for Miriam, as she was stricken with leprosy as a result of her jealousy and envy in speaking against Moses. Well, we want to talk about those twin sins, jealousy and envy, today on the program. And to help me with this important discussion is my friend, Dr. Krish Schroeder, the teaching pastor at First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Christ, Krish wears lots of hats. He is the teaching pastor. He is the counselor. He is the, staff developer. He is Krish. What else is in there?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: whatever is needed. Utility guy.
: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So, okay, obviously, in getting a degree in counseling, the issue of sibling rivalry, which is what we read here, Goes past siblings when we deal with children. Jealousy and envy. But it's really, I guess we would say that jealousy and envy really show up in the family.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: It does. Now, you, had brothers. Have brothers. I didn't have brothers, and I kind of, was glad that I didn't have brothers because I'm very competitive and I think can be prideful. And so I think that would be very tempting for that to bring out the worst in you when you have a brother who's doing the same thing as you and possibly doing it better than you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think that'd be very difficult. Sisters would be a little different.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. That's interesting, because when we think about, like, athletic families, the Manning family.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Where you have Archie and then you have Eli and Peyton, there had to be tremendous competition between those two guys. Both won Super Bowls, both elite quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, it's pretty amazing to think in one family you have the dad and two sons that are that good at that same position, and now you have another Manning son who has Arch. His son. So Eli's grandson, or, Archie's grandson, who is elite by all measures. what do you think the sibling rivalry was like between those guys?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, some definite, competitiveness in that family. Some great athleticism, some great natural talent. there's a documentary on Amazon prime about Novak Djokovic. He's the greatest tennis player that ever played. And growing up in Serbia, and the family was very poor, and he had two, I think, two brothers, and they sent Novak to the tennis camp to become this great tennis champ, while the other brothers had to wait back and just hope that Novak would succeed. Really, could you imagine the strain that that would put on a family and just on Novak himself? To have to be a champion to be able to make the money to provide for his family. And the dad, literally. The dad and the mom literally put it all on Novak to go become a champion and support the family.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Did he show from early on that he was.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. there was a coach that saw him playing when he was really, really young. He took to the game, and the coach said, this guy's going to be a champ. This guy's going to be number one in the world someday.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so she trained him, all the way up. When he won his first Wimbledon, he went back to that coach and gave her the trophy.
: Really?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right now he's late 30s, and he's won't retire, but it's because in the documentary, they Explain how this is his identity. Like, this is all he knows.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so it just made a lot of sense. But being from war, ah, torn Serbia at the time, and the family just being so, so poor. And, their hope was Novak.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How much money has he made, did they say?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I mean, millions upon millions, you know, so that family is well taken care of now. So, I mean, the gamble paid off for them. But I was just thinking of the dynamics. And they show scenes where he wins one of the grand slams and he's hugging his family and his brothers are a part of that. So he's hugging his brothers with them.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So they're supportive and everything, but.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: very interesting.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: so if you were one of his brothers, how do you think you would do with jealousy?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that would be very, very hard not to get jealous. And, I mean, they literally had to do without, growing up because everything was being poured into Novak to be a champ. And that would be hard for both, sides, you know, Would be hard. Similar to, like a Joseph story.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: With these two, that would lend itself to jealousy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Joseph's brothers hated him.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. And Joseph is just, you know, talking about his dreams, bragging about his dreams, being the favorite, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. You know, it has been said about Joseph, there's nothing negative in scripture written about him. He is such a Christlike character. The only negative you could infer was that, he wasn't very good at reading the room. Nobody wanted to hear about his dreams. Even his dad said, we're going to bow down to you. I mean, that's kind of hard to share that dream.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that's true. But, you know, like, ah, in this story that you read on Sunday and just read this morning, numbers 12, you know, verse three where it says, now the man Moses was very humble, more than any other person who was on the face of the earth, in parentheses. And you talked about whether. Because Moses writes numbers.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So when someone is humble, they're stating facts. You know, they're just stating facts. So, like with Joseph's story, he could interpret dreams. So he's not saying, I'm amazing, I'm incredible, I'm the best ever. He's saying, I interpret dreams and I have dreams. And then he's telling them the dreams. So he's just stating facts. So that's still, humility. It's not prideful or arrogant. When you're like, if you win a championship and you say, I won the championship, you're just stating the facts. But when you say I am the best, there's no one like me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Muhammad Allie.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: The greatest of all time.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: That's bragging.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Of course, he could back it up. He could kind of back it up.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: But it's still bragging, though. Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: yeah. Moses didn't brag. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit. you and I did on Monday. in numbers, chapter 12, when they speak against him, Moses never defends himself. The Lord defends him in a strong way. Not so with my servant Moses. How are you, so easily ready to speak against him? I speak to him mouth to mouth, face to face. He beholds my form. I mean, Moses was a special, special guy. And as I read through the lines, it was like, what was the key to his success? His humility.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I totally agree. You know, just thinking about Exodus 3 and the way that he's called and just his humility and being called, and he had the pedigree for sure. I mean, it was perfect the way that God had set him up. You know, God knew what he was doing and setting him up to be the leader of the Israelites. But Exodus 3, he's very humble in receiving that call from God, almost to the point of he's not going to do it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah. God gets mad at him because he keeps making excuses. I can't do it. Can't do it. now, one of the things that I brought out, Sunday, when I spoke about this, you have envy and you have jealous. They're different. They're even listed in Galatians, chapter 5. The deeds of the flesh, they're lifted separately. we kind of put them together because there's so much overlap with envy and jealousy. But, just to be clear, envy really is between you and another person where you see something. They have a quality. They have a position. They have an ability. They have, some possession they have.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And you're envious.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Envious of them. It's really associated, from the Latin, the eye, the evil eye that sees. and you want what that person has. Miriam and Eryn were more envious of Moses than jealous of Moses. Although jealousy enters in. And jealousy comes from the Greek, which, means to be zealous. And so, as one guy put it, he said, envy is more with the eye. Jealousy is more with the heart. And there's typically a third party in there with jealousy. we think Krish, mostly you get jealous of another person honing in on your girlfriend, your boyfriend, somebody that is paying too much attention to your Wife or she seems to like that or whatever. We can get jealous of that other person. I think they were envious of what Moses had with his relationship with the Lord, the position that he had. And I think she was also jealous. This new wife could change things for me. She might have more of Moses ear than I do. chapter 11. He had 70 elders that now are helping him lead. Maybe my leadership role is going to be diminished. So she had both things working.
: Okay.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Where does coveting fit in?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That I think coveting is more along the lines of envy. because you see, coveting has to do with. You see, you covet your neighbor's house. Your neighbor.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You actually want a possession. Right. That they have.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Something that they have. And so I asked, AI, this. I said, okay. So, being technical, is it possible to be envious and not be jealous? Is it possible to be jealous and not be envious? Now, AI, you got to take AI with a grain of salt. But, AI, I can give you some good feedback on some things like that. And they said, Grok said, well, technically you can. In practice you can't, because it all. It balls together.
: That's good.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And once you're envious, you're going to start being jealous because you're going to start saying, this person is going to encroach upon what I have. Jealousy is losing what I have. This person gets the promotion. I don't get it. And now they're going to be elevated, and I'm going to be diminished. You know, Pilate said that he knew it was for envy that they had delivered up Jesus. they were envious of his ability to speak, of his powers, miracles, the
Dr. Chris Schroeder: crowds that he's attracting. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then it says of the religious leaders, they were jealous of Peter and Jon and the disciples because they're untrained. Yeah, they're untrained. And they're pulling the crowd away. So it's like I'm losing my influence with the people. So that third party would be the crowd that they sense, hey, we're going to. And they even said that about Jesus. If this guy goes on, we're going to lose our place with Rome. This is going to affect us. so I had mentioned Sunday Krish, about, people were so upset when Elon Musk became a trillionaire. Well, it's like, well, how does that affect your life?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, I don't understand why they would be upset by someone else's success in that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But they're envious.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Envious. It's envy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You look at Elon Musk and you want to. People that are envious, they want to pick at him. Joy Reid says he's not very smart. AOC says he's not very smart. It's like Jordan Peterson said, the guy has, he's built Tesla, he's built SpaceX, he's built the boring company. he's done amazing things.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: In the pudding, right?
Speaker F: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I mean, who does that?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And he's a, you know, he's become a trillionaire. Well, how did he didn't stumble upon that?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I mean, I think that envy you're not even seeing clearly right now. You don't even have good rationale at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's just, it's just crazy because, that person, when you're envious of somebody else, you know, I think it's, it's, you can look at what somebody has achieved and you could admire them for that. Wow, that is really, that is really great. But their success doesn't diminish your worth, right? And our worth is not based on what we do or achieve or have. Our worth is based in the Lord. And that's the same for everybody. Jesus died for everybody. He loves everybody. He wants to save everybody.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: We say all equal at the foot
Pastor Jeff Schreve: of the cross, right? So we're talking about the subject of jealousy and envy. And, when we come back from the break, we'll really get into the, jealousy and envy that can hit families, I think, especially Krish, against, same sex. So girls, sisters, brothers. I don't know if you have as much between, brother and sister as you do between brothers and sisters, you know, going with the same sex. But it is a, subject that is important. It's a subject that hits all of us because we deal with this green eyed monster when we see, a, brother, sister, a neighbor, a friend, a co worker, a teammate. Excel while we are not. So you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder on American Family Radio. Real Truth for today. We'll be right back.
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: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Dr. Krish Schroeder. We're talking about the subject of jealousy, and envy. Shakespeare called that the green eyed monster. Oh, beware, my lord, he says in the play Othello. Oh, beware, my lord, of jealousy. It is the green eyed monster which doth mortal mock the meat it feeds on. the Bible says in the book of James, where jealousy or selfish ambition exists, there is disorder in every evil thing. Krish, I think we could say that, as the devil, before he was the devil, Lucifer looked at God. He was jealous of God. He saw what God had. He saw all the worship. The inference in the Bible is that the devil was. Lucifer was the worship leader. And the worship from the angels came through him. Lucifer was made with some kind of musical quality. The Bible talks about his sockets and his, his, pipes. And so this, this musical quality came through him to the Lord. And, he. He wanted that worship not to come through him, but to come to him. He was jealous of God. He was prideful. he was ungrateful of his position. All those things ball together. And we said, Sunday, that, jealousy and envy is really rooted in pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, it's completely rooted in pride. Couldn't agree more. Pride is, I think, the number one sin. You know, we all have a tendency to pride. And the antidote to pride would be humility. The opposite of pride is humility, not shame. Shame is closely related to pride. And we are. Because of, because of our sin tendency, we will be naturally prideful. We will never be naturally humble. You have to choose to be humble. You have to commit to do humble things. You know, Philippians 2 is the ultimate chapter about humility where Jesus humbled himself to come from heaven to earth and then from earth to the cross. And then God exalted him and gave him the name above all names. But you have to look for opportunities to do humble things. And you got to be careful with humility. Like you talked about On Sunday, because you could. Well, I'm doing good at being humble. I'm actually becoming a really humble person. I'm very humble. Now you're not.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. So it does say in numbers 12, three, now, the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth. And that is, that verse has been scrutinized. And people say, well, how. How on earth could Moses have written that? If Moses wrote the first five books, and some said, well, somebody added that he didn't write that. Because if you're the most humble man on the earth, and you tell everybody, I'm the most humble man on the earth, guess what? You lose your humility. Star. But, is Skip Heitzig. I know, Krish, you like Skip Heitzig a lot. And he's a great preacher and a great pastor. He commented and he said, this is proof that, the Bible is inspired. Because Moses wouldn't have wanted to write that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: the Lord said, no, write that. and I do think that's why he was used so greatly, because he was so humble. And the Lord says in the book of Isaiah, but to this one will I look to him who is humble and contrite of heart and who trembles at my word. Moses did all those things. And so God had that closeness, but
Dr. Chris Schroeder: he didn't come from humble means. I mean, the very beginning, but he was raised not in humble means, but he had to become humble to be used by God. You know, he had to be in the wilderness. he had to get away from wealth so that he could be used by God.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It says somebody said, I heard Adrian Rogers say this. I don't know if it was, original with him, but he said, moses, life, you know, he lived 120 years. So it's in three segments.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: 40. 40. 40.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. First 40 years he's thinking he's somebody. The next 40 years, he's realizing he's nobody. And the last 40 years, he understands what God can do with somebody who recognizes he's a nobody.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Bingo. I mean, you've got to become humble. You got to choose to be humble so that God can use you.
Speaker F: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: God's not going to use an arrogant person. So that's difficult, though, because sometimes that means you've got to go through some really hard things. It's just like, being in ministry. you have to be broken first. You know, kind of like the military thing. You know, you go to boot camp to be broken down. So that they could build you back up and be used.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you think about that with the Apostle Paul. you know, he was, look at all that I've achieved. He talks about that in Philippians 3. He said, I count all that as dung, as loss, in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. And the Lord knocked him down. He, talks about, In Acts 9, he was led out of the city through a hole in the window, in a basket. You talk about going down. He had to go down so the Lord could raise him up.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. And that's, in the end, that's what he desired. To be nothing, you know, to decrease more and more.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Well, yeah. Rooted in pride. You know, I think with Miriam, Aaron's, Moses sister, she was saying, has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has he not spoken through us as well? She was accusing Moses of being prideful, and that's why it adds in there. Verse 3. He was humble, the most humble man on the face of the earth. She was accusing him of what she herself was guilty of. And that was pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. When you look at someone who is having success, maybe in, spiritual sense, Christian sense, being used by God, you may have a tendency to think that that person is getting arrogant just because they're being used and you're watching every. Everything they do and then being ready quickly to make a judgment on their arrogance. But that's not the case with Moses.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, Krish, I've noticed this, because I mentioned Sunday about pastors. And people in ministry can be some of the worst with jealousy and envy. M. Because we have such a tendency to, you know. You go to a Southern Baptist convention. Well, how's your church doing? How many you got coming now?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, what are you running?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You want it to be less than what you have, right. Because you feel better about yourself. And the guy says, so.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Then they have, like, pastor's numbers. You round it up.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right? Right. Yes. Ministerially speaking. And, rather than being genuinely happy for the guy, you're like, well, crud. Why is he being blessed and I'm not being blessed? What's the deal here, Lord? You can get to be, ungrateful, and, you can start to murmur and gripe and complain and, Yeah, I think, ministry is just an area where you have to really watch that. And you don't have to be a pastor. You're a Sunday school teacher. You sing in the choir. Why is that person getting this solo? Why are they singing on the praise team? And I'M not singing on the praise team. And you can kind of start to grumble, and gripe and complain.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. So the enemy is using that pride against you. And he will attack in that area. Hey, look at what they have. Wouldn't you love to have that? And so the enemy is whispering, and he's the deceiver, the ultimate deceiver, because he wants to break things up. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, when you think about the tenth commandment, you shall not covet, so many of the other commands. You shall not steal. Well, why do you steal? Because you saw something you wanted, you coveted. You know, you think about Achan when he saw those things under the ban in, Jericho. You know, I saw that Babylonian coat I wanted that, so I coveted. You covet before you. Before you steal. You covet before you commit adultery. You see those things that you want, and then you take them.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And it's all about the heart. The Christian life is all about the heart, keeping the heart soft. When the heart starts getting hard, it starts getting prideful. And I think the antidote really is gratitude. Being thankful for what you have. And just anyone that's listening, you can make a list of all the things that you have to be grateful for. And you're kind of surprised by how much. How many things will be on that list, because we have so much to be grateful for.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and, you know, it's always, We have that phrase, there's always a bigger dog. You know, when you play golf, you hit a good drive, and then somebody comes behind you and hits it past you. And then they. You know the phrase, well, there's always a bigger dog. There's always somebody that can do it better. And, you see these guys. I remember I met a famous, basketball player, Robert Horry, who played for your Los Angeles Lakers. He won Big shot, Bob. Won seven, I think, seven titles with
Dr. Chris Schroeder: the Rockets, the Lakers, and the Spurs. Probably about seven.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Two with the Rockets, three with the Lakers, and then two with the Spurs.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think, wow, that's crazy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: but I remember when my friend introduced me to him, he said, don't ask him about Kobe Bryant or other players, because then they just. They don't like that. Because it's like, hey, you're meeting me. You're not meeting Shaquille o' Neal or whatever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: which, by the way, Kobe Bryant said that Robert Horry was the smartest player he ever played with. Really? Yeah. He thought he was a very intellectual player.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. But, you know, there's always. I mean, meeting Robert Horry is a big deal. He's a big. But he's not Kobe Bryant.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right. He's got his own status that he wants you to talk about. Right. Yeah. It's also kind of sad when you see, like, great. What we would consider great people because they're successful in their field, like sports or whatever. And a lot of them are driven by pride, honestly. And a lot of them are driven by insecurity.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So I think insecurity is a fuel for the envy and the jealousy and so gratitude. And also just accepting yourself, who God created you to be. You have unique gifts and abilities that no one else has. And so stop looking at the gifts that someone else has and look at the gifts that you have, how God has wired you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. So I ran across, and I shared this Sunday, but I ran across that quote from Leonard Bernstein about the hardest instrument to play in the orchestra is second fiddle. everybody wants to be first chair violinist. You play, you know, you get all the accolades. You're playing the melody line and all that. But he said the second fiddle is the one that gives harmony. And, that's not the glamour position. But he said, I can't do the orchestra without second fiddle. So he said that's not an issue of ability, as it is, an issue of character and heart. Are you okay to not have the spotlight?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think it makes it easier if you have a, Like if you're comparing gifts. That's right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Corinthians is all about pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. You start comparing, then you got pride. You start looking at, okay, well, I'm good at this. This is what I'm good at. God has wired me in this way. And the number one, the leader here, she is good at this specific gift. And so just focusing on what God created you to do, and then you're able to celebrate others.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: But when you're tearing others down and not building others up, that's just insecurity, and that's a prideful heart.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so it's time for a heart check.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And, your sermon on Sunday was very convicting. I heard a lot of people talking about the conviction of it, you know, because I think we all. Because we all struggle with pride. It's the number one sin. And it's so easy to compare with others. And so we have to stop comparing. And social media is a big, reason for this. We look at social media and we see other people's perfect life with their perfect family and their perfect situation, which isn't true. But you start comparing and then that insecurity creeps in and then you start wanting to tear others down. so just accept who you are and be grateful for who God created you to be.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, well, I used as an illustration. And the poster child for how to deal with envy and jealousy is Jonathan, Saul's son. It says in 1 Samuel, chapter 23. Now, so Saul is king. Saul has his son Jonathan, his oldest son, Prince Jonathan, who would be king if, the family of Saul and the reign of Saul continued, the house of Saul. But, God rejects Saul and he goes with David. So Jonathan is odd man out and he's not going to be the king. Well, Jonathan could have easily been very jealous of David, just like Saul was jealous of David. but he wasn't. And the Bible says this First Samuel 23. Now David became aware that Saul had come out to seek his life while David was in the wilderness of zip at Horesh. And Jonathan, Saul's son, arose and went to David at Horesh and encouraged him in God. Thus Jonathan said to him, do not be afraid, because the hand of Saul, my father, will not find you, and you will be king over Israel, and I will be next to you. And Saul, my father knows that also. boy, that speaks volumes about Jonathan's character.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Okay. All true and spiritual sense. Everything we're saying is true. I just want to add one little, another component, though. I think it's difficult to be in a, like, under hireling or whatever, like a second chair. If you are a natural choleric.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You are a leader. That's what I've just from experientially.
: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So some people are more wired, more phlegmatic. They're able to kind of go with the flow of wherever they are. But someone who is a natural, natural leader, a choleric personality, they're going to struggle more in a second chair kind of position. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But even guys like, you know, you think of football coaches, Nick Saban, the Indiana guy, Signetti, and they all had their start at being on somebody's staff and then taking notes on how they do things and probably saying, I wouldn't do it that way. But maybe not. Probably not verbalizing that because that would cause unrest.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: A good book is, Jon Maxwell wrote a book called the 360 Leader. And it's basically like middle management. It's like second chair, middle management kind of thing. And he says that, you know, when you're ready to, you shouldn't be in that second chair. You should be in the first chair is when you start second guessing everything and you start saying, like, oh, I would do that differently. I would do that differently. Like you can imagine. I think Bill Belichick was like, on the, the Browns, like, was on the coaching staff, you know, under. I don't know who the head coach, but eventually he's Bill Belichick.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You know, so, learning. Learning where you are.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, so think about this. The 1986 Chicago Bears.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Uh-huh.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Considered one of the greatest football teams ever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Definitely. Greatest defense ever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. Mostly obnoxious team out.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You had Buddy Rhyen as the defensive coordinator. You have Ditka. Those are two Bulls.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: They feuded. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. but they carried Buddy off on their shoulders when they won the Super Bowl.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. Well, here's another example. Chicago sports episode here. Scottie Pippen has tons of resentment towards Jordan. That second chair is hard. He feels like he didn't get the credit that he deserved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. And then you have, other guys. You know, Jerry west was never jealous of Wilt Chamberlain. Yeah, he, he appreciated. They were pretty good friends.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Jon Stockton wasn't jealous of Karl Malone. And even, even, Charles Barkley said when he went to the Rockets toward the end of his career, he said, I've gone from being the number one guy to being the number two guy because it was Akeems team. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder. We're talking about the issue of jealousy and envy. How do you, defeat that green eyed monster that wants to eat you alive and get into your heart and just destroy everything? When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-9884. Give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back. Let me just mention, to you, we have two trips coming up with from his heart, October, 11th through the 16th. October 11th is a Sunday evening. We're flying out from Love Field, Dallas, Love Field to go to Washington, D.C. i'm, partnering with Dr. Gary Frazier, a good friend, and we're going to have a week in Washington, D.C. come back on Friday. So we're there Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, doing all the sightseeing, spending time at the Museum of The Bible. And then we come back on Friday. And, that is coming up quickly. So I'd love to have you check it out. Come with us. If you'd like to do that. You, can go to fromisheart.org to find out all the trip details. And then also April 2nd through the 11th, of 2027, Krish Schroeder and I are leading a trip to the Holy Land, and we are trusting the Lord that everything is going to be, calm in that part of the world, come April 2nd through the 11th. And we're going to have a great time walking in the footsteps of Jesus. We'd love for you to, prayerfully consider coming with us on that. There is room, on the trip for you April 2nd through the 11th. So go to from his heart.org from hisheart.org and you can click on that link and it can take you, it's with Gary Frazier's, Discovery Missions, group, and it will take you to that website where you can read about all the, the details and, the costs and things like that. So, it's going to be a great time. Both of those are going to be great trips. Okay, we're talking about the issue of jealousy and envy. From numbers, chapter 12, Miriam and Eryn. Miriam is the oldest girl, in the family. she's probably seven or eight years older than Moses. Eryn is three years older than Moses. But it's big sister and big brother talking about little brother, and they're not too happy with him. Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? They say, has he not spoken through us as well? And the Lord heard it. And the Bible says, suddenly the Lord said to Moses and Eryn And Miriam, the three that were leading. Micah 6, 4 said that, those three led Israel. And, he said, you three come out to the tent of meeting. So the three of them came out. Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and he called Eryn and Miriam. When they had both come forward, he said, hear now my words. And, you know, they have to be really nervous. If there is a prophet among you. I, the Lord, shall make myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my household. With him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings. And he beholds the form of the Lord. He did that in Exodus 34. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my Servant against Moses. So the anger of the Lord burned against them and he departed. And when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow. And Eryn turned toward Miriam. Behold, she was leprous. God weighed in very quickly and, let it be known, hey, you're not going to do this. And he nipped that in the Buddha. Well, we're going to the phone lines to, to take your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple. 858-98840. If you have a question or comment, we'd love to hear from you. And, you know, maybe you have a testimony that says, hey, I was jealous of a sibling, or I was jealous of somebody at work or as jealous, in ministry. And then I learned that, I needed to give that over to the Lord. And you experience victory. So we have, ah, Robin on the line from Virginia. Robin, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Oh, good morning, you guys. Thank you so much for the topic.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Thank you.
Caroline: I appreciate your show. And sorry to call twice in one
Speaker F: week, but hey, no problem.
Caroline: because I feel like part of what, you mentioned was that it's the number one sin. Like Lucifer, right? He wanted to, even before what happened in the garden, he wanted to be God, you know, instead of just an angel. So I just, I feel like sometimes when you have the picture image, I think of like a seesaw, you know, that either if you're insecure and you're down on yourself, you know, the downside, or if you're over puffed up, you know, and pride is on the other side. One of the things, I really appreciate, especially in honor, sort of of maybe what happened yesterday with Dolly Parton passing away. And I'm just learning more about her generous philanthropic, donations for years and years. And, you know, I want, I don't know if something along the lines of keeping one's ego in check is dealing with hardship and a time of lack and not having, like you mentioned about Moses, Moses, life, he came from wealth, and then he had very little in the wilderness. But one of the images that I really appreciated learning from a youth pastor many years ago, it was his analogy. He said, like, we all can imagine, like going to a country fair or if you haven't on a movie, there's like the house of mirrors, right, where all the mirrors are distorted. You could look like a short, fat person or it could stretch you tall. But that, ah, Jesus is the most accurate, perfect mirror that we could look into more than just a relationship with him, that he will reflect back to us through unconditional love, that he's the picture that we need to keep our eyes on of who we are. And, I'm only guessing here, but obviously through the power of the Holy Spirit, that as long as we keep our eyes on Jesus, through the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit, and us honestly giving our heart to Jesus and to God through the Holy Spirit, to help us keep our ego in check. Because it is a real difficult thing. So especially with people who are more talented or maybe have more money. You know, like the analogy, it says it's more difficult for a rich man, you know, to get into heaven than, you know, a, camel to go to the Ivan Needle. So that's just what I wanted to offer that. That image, you know, that Jesus is the perfect mirror, you know, not that we get over puffed up or feeling less than everyone else.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's a good point, Robin. You know, I talked about that, Krish. With the talents 5, 2 and 1, not everybody gets the same, right?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So if you have that one talent, use it to the fullest, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, and just know that that's what the Lord entrusted to you. That's his business. It's his. He owns it all.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Honestly, the five talents is a lot to steward, right? You know, it's a lot. That's a lot of challenge. It's like the person that, becomes very wealthy all of a sudden, and now everyone is their friend and they want. You want something. It's a big challenge to be a steward of.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I heard Bill Bright, read in a book where he was talking about he had no qualms talking to the uber rich about giving to Campus Crusade for Christ Crew, because he said, I'm doing that person a favor. They have been given all this wealth, and, you're going to be held accountable for that. You know the phrase, he who dies with the most toys wins? Well, he who dies with the most toys dies, and the toys don't go with him. And you're going to have to answer to God, what did you do with all that I gave you?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. So be a blessing while you're on earth. You know, instead of just stockpiling, Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, we're talking about, always a bigger dog. you know, when it comes to wealth, you can have. You can feel like, man, I've really arrived. I'm worth $50 million.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then you meet somebody worth 100 million and there's a story that was told years ago about Warren Stevens, who has the financial institution billionaire. He was ah, supposedly at Augusta national, which is where they play the Masters. And somebody was playing cards or doing something and they were. This guy was bragging about how much money he had and Warren Stevens said, how much are you worth? As the story goes? And the Guy said like $70 million or something like that. And he pulls out a deck of cards and Warren Stevens says I'll cut you for it.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, wow.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So you know, 70 million is a lot. Yeah, but that guy's worth billions and he could throw 70 million in the shredder and it like not phase him.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, it's all relative.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. So be humble. There's always a bigger dog. And as we walk with the king, there's the king. And then everybody else.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Then, then a million miles of separation for everybody else. So I appreciate the call, Robin. And we have Dannah on the line from Texas. Dannah, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Speaker F: Oh, thank you so much. And I always really appreciate when you guys are on together it is really meat, it is not milk. And it really ministers to me. And so kind of I wanted to say that I just need some prayer too because this segment, I mean this show today has really convicted me and I think we could preach about envy and jealousy until Jesus Christ comes back, you know, because whether we're secular or Christian or whatever, man. And so I, you know, it's just. I just need some prayer because I'm just, I don't know. Let me just give an example. Like for example, my husband and his mother, his sister and his sister, they get together at my 94 year old mother's house twice a month and they meet for three hours and they laugh or go through this or that. And I, through my raising, for some reason I always just felt left out. And so I'm really struggling with this to feel left out. And sometimes after they meet, it's about a week long where it calls a lot of problems in our marriage and we argue a lot more, you know, and I don't know, I just, it's just a struggle right now and I need to. And you know, I think envy and jealousy lead to hate too and not love. We. It messes up our love for people.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you wish ill on that person. You can, you can find yourself, Dannah. Whether it's a, ah, whether it's a sibling or whether it's somebody at work, or whether it's somebody on the team that took your starting spot or whatever you can wish they fail and, they get hurt or something like that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, Dannah, I appreciate your humility. And then also your awareness will serve you well. And that is, definitely something difficult when you feel like you're being overlooked. Something that's helped me and I have that same struggle that you just shared is God. One of his names is El. Roy means that he sees you. And so even when it seems like you're being overlooked and even in your own family, God sees you. God definitely sees you for who you are and you're his creation.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I love the fact that, when the Lord chose the woman to be the mother of the Christ child, he chose somebody way off the beaten path in Nazareth. I mean, can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Yeah. He sees the small and the despised and the forgotten.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And having an eternal perspective helps a lot. You know that this is all temporal on earth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Dannah. I appreciate you calling in. I appreciate your honesty about that. And I think you're right. There's a lot to say about this because it comes up, that green eyed monster comes knocking on everybody's door, a lot. you can't let it in, because as God told Cain, behold, sin is crouching at the door and its desires for you, but you must master it. And that sin crouches at the door often. and if we allow ourselves to go that direction and dwell on that, we can really get to be ungrateful, and just hateful and, it's not good at all. Well, Krish, I was thinking about this. So, you know, you're talking about how, you know, there's always somebody bigger, there's always somebody that, you know, a preacher that has more notoriety. Farrah Fawcett died on June 25, my birthday, 2009. And it was just a few hours later, five hours later. You know, everybody's talking about Farrah, like Dolly Parton, you know, everybody talking about that, that, well, Farah Faso was big news. that lasted five hours until Micah Jackson died. And then she's just totally. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, if you're her family, you're thinking, oh, wait a minute, you know, Pharaoh died. Let's, let's talk about that. But it just gets totally washed away. and I think when, you know, when you, when you have that desire that I need to be like Miriam, God's Spoken through me. And I'm a prophetess. And, you know, it's not just Moses. And when that is lurking in there, look at me.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: It kind of reminds me, as you're talking, it's reminding me of the prodigal son with the brother and the prodigal son. You know, I've been faithful. I've been here. I've been right by your side. And now my brother, who's totally squandered everything and run off from home, and now he's come back and you're celebrating him, you know, so that, that envy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and that, that was so, you know, that was, that was a parable that showed the Jews that, you don't have to be like that. But that's, that's who you are. You, you think that, the gentiles are dogs and, you know, if, if the riff raff, the tax collectors and sinners, how dare God have any regard for those people? We're your chosen people. We're the ones that study the law. You know, that kind of thing. You just get arrogant in your religion and the Lord hates that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, we've got to guard against that, being religious, because we can fall into that trap. We've been in the church for a long time and start thinking that you're better than right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and I think that's one of the wonderful things, about the ministry. So celebrate recovery in our church. It just reminds you constantly that, hey, this is what we're about. We're, you know, just seeking. The Lord's ministry is seeking to save that which was lost. Go out into the highways and the byways and gather them into my house. And, whether the person has a lot or a little or nothing at all, they. They're special and precious to God.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that's right. And so thankful for many like that, where we look for those who are down and out. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Because, we have what they need. We have what the down and out need, what the up and out need. And that is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Well, thanks so much, for listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder. And, maybe you can share this program with somebody who is really struggling in the area of sibling rivalry, struggling with jealousy, struggling with envy, because the answer is found in the Lord. We keep our eyes fixed on him. We're grateful and thankful and just know that God is going to reward us in the end. God bless you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Wednesday morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. I have a question for you. When is the last time that you encountered the green eyed monster? You say the green eyed monster. What is that? Well, it comes from William Shakespeare in his play Othello, the Moor of Venice. And, he wrote these words, o beware, my lord, of jealousy. It is the green eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on. Shakespeare was saying that jealousy will eat you alive. I'm going through a series on the book of Numbers on Sunday morning at First Baptist Texarkana. And last, Sunday, I preached on numbers 12. This is how numbers 12 starts. Then Miriam, that's Moses, oldest sister and older sister. And Eryn, his older brother, spoke against Moses because of the cushite woman whom he had married, for he married a cushite woman. we would read into that, that his wife Zipporah had died and he remarried, remarried this woman from Cush. And they didn't like it. And they said, has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses, has he not spoken through us as well? And the Lord heard it. They were envious and jealous of Moses, and. And they spoke against him. And as you read the chapter, you find that it didn't go well for them, especially for Miriam, as she was stricken with leprosy as a result of her jealousy and envy in speaking against Moses. Well, we want to talk about those twin sins, jealousy and envy, today on the program. And to help me with this important discussion is my friend, Dr. Krish Schroeder, the teaching pastor at First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Christ, Krish wears lots of hats. He is the teaching pastor. He is the counselor. He is the, staff developer. He is Krish. What else is in there?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: whatever is needed. Utility guy.
: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So, okay, obviously, in getting a degree in counseling, the issue of sibling rivalry, which is what we read here, Goes past siblings when we deal with children. Jealousy and envy. But it's really, I guess we would say that jealousy and envy really show up in the family.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: It does. Now, you, had brothers. Have brothers. I didn't have brothers, and I kind of, was glad that I didn't have brothers because I'm very competitive and I think can be prideful. And so I think that would be very tempting for that to bring out the worst in you when you have a brother who's doing the same thing as you and possibly doing it better than you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think that'd be very difficult. Sisters would be a little different.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. That's interesting, because when we think about, like, athletic families, the Manning family.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Where you have Archie and then you have Eli and Peyton, there had to be tremendous competition between those two guys. Both won Super Bowls, both elite quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, it's pretty amazing to think in one family you have the dad and two sons that are that good at that same position, and now you have another Manning son who has Arch. His son. So Eli's grandson, or, Archie's grandson, who is elite by all measures. what do you think the sibling rivalry was like between those guys?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, some definite, competitiveness in that family. Some great athleticism, some great natural talent. there's a documentary on Amazon prime about Novak Djokovic. He's the greatest tennis player that ever played. And growing up in Serbia, and the family was very poor, and he had two, I think, two brothers, and they sent Novak to the tennis camp to become this great tennis champ, while the other brothers had to wait back and just hope that Novak would succeed. Really, could you imagine the strain that that would put on a family and just on Novak himself? To have to be a champion to be able to make the money to provide for his family. And the dad, literally. The dad and the mom literally put it all on Novak to go become a champion and support the family.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Did he show from early on that he was.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. there was a coach that saw him playing when he was really, really young. He took to the game, and the coach said, this guy's going to be a champ. This guy's going to be number one in the world someday.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so she trained him, all the way up. When he won his first Wimbledon, he went back to that coach and gave her the trophy.
: Really?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right now he's late 30s, and he's won't retire, but it's because in the documentary, they Explain how this is his identity. Like, this is all he knows.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so it just made a lot of sense. But being from war, ah, torn Serbia at the time, and the family just being so, so poor. And, their hope was Novak.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How much money has he made, did they say?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I mean, millions upon millions, you know, so that family is well taken care of now. So, I mean, the gamble paid off for them. But I was just thinking of the dynamics. And they show scenes where he wins one of the grand slams and he's hugging his family and his brothers are a part of that. So he's hugging his brothers with them.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So they're supportive and everything, but.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: very interesting.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: so if you were one of his brothers, how do you think you would do with jealousy?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that would be very, very hard not to get jealous. And, I mean, they literally had to do without, growing up because everything was being poured into Novak to be a champ. And that would be hard for both, sides, you know, Would be hard. Similar to, like a Joseph story.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: With these two, that would lend itself to jealousy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Joseph's brothers hated him.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. And Joseph is just, you know, talking about his dreams, bragging about his dreams, being the favorite, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. You know, it has been said about Joseph, there's nothing negative in scripture written about him. He is such a Christlike character. The only negative you could infer was that, he wasn't very good at reading the room. Nobody wanted to hear about his dreams. Even his dad said, we're going to bow down to you. I mean, that's kind of hard to share that dream.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that's true. But, you know, like, ah, in this story that you read on Sunday and just read this morning, numbers 12, you know, verse three where it says, now the man Moses was very humble, more than any other person who was on the face of the earth, in parentheses. And you talked about whether. Because Moses writes numbers.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So when someone is humble, they're stating facts. You know, they're just stating facts. So, like with Joseph's story, he could interpret dreams. So he's not saying, I'm amazing, I'm incredible, I'm the best ever. He's saying, I interpret dreams and I have dreams. And then he's telling them the dreams. So he's just stating facts. So that's still, humility. It's not prideful or arrogant. When you're like, if you win a championship and you say, I won the championship, you're just stating the facts. But when you say I am the best, there's no one like me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Muhammad Allie.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: The greatest of all time.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: That's bragging.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Of course, he could back it up. He could kind of back it up.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: But it's still bragging, though. Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: yeah. Moses didn't brag. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit. you and I did on Monday. in numbers, chapter 12, when they speak against him, Moses never defends himself. The Lord defends him in a strong way. Not so with my servant Moses. How are you, so easily ready to speak against him? I speak to him mouth to mouth, face to face. He beholds my form. I mean, Moses was a special, special guy. And as I read through the lines, it was like, what was the key to his success? His humility.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I totally agree. You know, just thinking about Exodus 3 and the way that he's called and just his humility and being called, and he had the pedigree for sure. I mean, it was perfect the way that God had set him up. You know, God knew what he was doing and setting him up to be the leader of the Israelites. But Exodus 3, he's very humble in receiving that call from God, almost to the point of he's not going to do it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah. God gets mad at him because he keeps making excuses. I can't do it. Can't do it. now, one of the things that I brought out, Sunday, when I spoke about this, you have envy and you have jealous. They're different. They're even listed in Galatians, chapter 5. The deeds of the flesh, they're lifted separately. we kind of put them together because there's so much overlap with envy and jealousy. But, just to be clear, envy really is between you and another person where you see something. They have a quality. They have a position. They have an ability. They have, some possession they have.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And you're envious.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Envious of them. It's really associated, from the Latin, the eye, the evil eye that sees. and you want what that person has. Miriam and Eryn were more envious of Moses than jealous of Moses. Although jealousy enters in. And jealousy comes from the Greek, which, means to be zealous. And so, as one guy put it, he said, envy is more with the eye. Jealousy is more with the heart. And there's typically a third party in there with jealousy. we think Krish, mostly you get jealous of another person honing in on your girlfriend, your boyfriend, somebody that is paying too much attention to your Wife or she seems to like that or whatever. We can get jealous of that other person. I think they were envious of what Moses had with his relationship with the Lord, the position that he had. And I think she was also jealous. This new wife could change things for me. She might have more of Moses ear than I do. chapter 11. He had 70 elders that now are helping him lead. Maybe my leadership role is going to be diminished. So she had both things working.
: Okay.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Where does coveting fit in?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That I think coveting is more along the lines of envy. because you see, coveting has to do with. You see, you covet your neighbor's house. Your neighbor.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You actually want a possession. Right. That they have.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Something that they have. And so I asked, AI, this. I said, okay. So, being technical, is it possible to be envious and not be jealous? Is it possible to be jealous and not be envious? Now, AI, you got to take AI with a grain of salt. But, AI, I can give you some good feedback on some things like that. And they said, Grok said, well, technically you can. In practice you can't, because it all. It balls together.
: That's good.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And once you're envious, you're going to start being jealous because you're going to start saying, this person is going to encroach upon what I have. Jealousy is losing what I have. This person gets the promotion. I don't get it. And now they're going to be elevated, and I'm going to be diminished. You know, Pilate said that he knew it was for envy that they had delivered up Jesus. they were envious of his ability to speak, of his powers, miracles, the
Dr. Chris Schroeder: crowds that he's attracting. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then it says of the religious leaders, they were jealous of Peter and Jon and the disciples because they're untrained. Yeah, they're untrained. And they're pulling the crowd away. So it's like I'm losing my influence with the people. So that third party would be the crowd that they sense, hey, we're going to. And they even said that about Jesus. If this guy goes on, we're going to lose our place with Rome. This is going to affect us. so I had mentioned Sunday Krish, about, people were so upset when Elon Musk became a trillionaire. Well, it's like, well, how does that affect your life?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, I don't understand why they would be upset by someone else's success in that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But they're envious.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Envious. It's envy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You look at Elon Musk and you want to. People that are envious, they want to pick at him. Joy Reid says he's not very smart. AOC says he's not very smart. It's like Jordan Peterson said, the guy has, he's built Tesla, he's built SpaceX, he's built the boring company. he's done amazing things.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: In the pudding, right?
Speaker F: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I mean, who does that?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And he's a, you know, he's become a trillionaire. Well, how did he didn't stumble upon that?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I mean, I think that envy you're not even seeing clearly right now. You don't even have good rationale at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's just, it's just crazy because, that person, when you're envious of somebody else, you know, I think it's, it's, you can look at what somebody has achieved and you could admire them for that. Wow, that is really, that is really great. But their success doesn't diminish your worth, right? And our worth is not based on what we do or achieve or have. Our worth is based in the Lord. And that's the same for everybody. Jesus died for everybody. He loves everybody. He wants to save everybody.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: We say all equal at the foot
Pastor Jeff Schreve: of the cross, right? So we're talking about the subject of jealousy and envy. And, when we come back from the break, we'll really get into the, jealousy and envy that can hit families, I think, especially Krish, against, same sex. So girls, sisters, brothers. I don't know if you have as much between, brother and sister as you do between brothers and sisters, you know, going with the same sex. But it is a, subject that is important. It's a subject that hits all of us because we deal with this green eyed monster when we see, a, brother, sister, a neighbor, a friend, a co worker, a teammate. Excel while we are not. So you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder on American Family Radio. Real Truth for today. We'll be right back.
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: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Dr. Krish Schroeder. We're talking about the subject of jealousy, and envy. Shakespeare called that the green eyed monster. Oh, beware, my lord, he says in the play Othello. Oh, beware, my lord, of jealousy. It is the green eyed monster which doth mortal mock the meat it feeds on. the Bible says in the book of James, where jealousy or selfish ambition exists, there is disorder in every evil thing. Krish, I think we could say that, as the devil, before he was the devil, Lucifer looked at God. He was jealous of God. He saw what God had. He saw all the worship. The inference in the Bible is that the devil was. Lucifer was the worship leader. And the worship from the angels came through him. Lucifer was made with some kind of musical quality. The Bible talks about his sockets and his, his, pipes. And so this, this musical quality came through him to the Lord. And, he. He wanted that worship not to come through him, but to come to him. He was jealous of God. He was prideful. he was ungrateful of his position. All those things ball together. And we said, Sunday, that, jealousy and envy is really rooted in pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, it's completely rooted in pride. Couldn't agree more. Pride is, I think, the number one sin. You know, we all have a tendency to pride. And the antidote to pride would be humility. The opposite of pride is humility, not shame. Shame is closely related to pride. And we are. Because of, because of our sin tendency, we will be naturally prideful. We will never be naturally humble. You have to choose to be humble. You have to commit to do humble things. You know, Philippians 2 is the ultimate chapter about humility where Jesus humbled himself to come from heaven to earth and then from earth to the cross. And then God exalted him and gave him the name above all names. But you have to look for opportunities to do humble things. And you got to be careful with humility. Like you talked about On Sunday, because you could. Well, I'm doing good at being humble. I'm actually becoming a really humble person. I'm very humble. Now you're not.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. So it does say in numbers 12, three, now, the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth. And that is, that verse has been scrutinized. And people say, well, how. How on earth could Moses have written that? If Moses wrote the first five books, and some said, well, somebody added that he didn't write that. Because if you're the most humble man on the earth, and you tell everybody, I'm the most humble man on the earth, guess what? You lose your humility. Star. But, is Skip Heitzig. I know, Krish, you like Skip Heitzig a lot. And he's a great preacher and a great pastor. He commented and he said, this is proof that, the Bible is inspired. Because Moses wouldn't have wanted to write that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: the Lord said, no, write that. and I do think that's why he was used so greatly, because he was so humble. And the Lord says in the book of Isaiah, but to this one will I look to him who is humble and contrite of heart and who trembles at my word. Moses did all those things. And so God had that closeness, but
Dr. Chris Schroeder: he didn't come from humble means. I mean, the very beginning, but he was raised not in humble means, but he had to become humble to be used by God. You know, he had to be in the wilderness. he had to get away from wealth so that he could be used by God.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It says somebody said, I heard Adrian Rogers say this. I don't know if it was, original with him, but he said, moses, life, you know, he lived 120 years. So it's in three segments.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: 40. 40. 40.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. First 40 years he's thinking he's somebody. The next 40 years, he's realizing he's nobody. And the last 40 years, he understands what God can do with somebody who recognizes he's a nobody.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Bingo. I mean, you've got to become humble. You got to choose to be humble so that God can use you.
Speaker F: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: God's not going to use an arrogant person. So that's difficult, though, because sometimes that means you've got to go through some really hard things. It's just like, being in ministry. you have to be broken first. You know, kind of like the military thing. You know, you go to boot camp to be broken down. So that they could build you back up and be used.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you think about that with the Apostle Paul. you know, he was, look at all that I've achieved. He talks about that in Philippians 3. He said, I count all that as dung, as loss, in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. And the Lord knocked him down. He, talks about, In Acts 9, he was led out of the city through a hole in the window, in a basket. You talk about going down. He had to go down so the Lord could raise him up.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. And that's, in the end, that's what he desired. To be nothing, you know, to decrease more and more.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Well, yeah. Rooted in pride. You know, I think with Miriam, Aaron's, Moses sister, she was saying, has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has he not spoken through us as well? She was accusing Moses of being prideful, and that's why it adds in there. Verse 3. He was humble, the most humble man on the face of the earth. She was accusing him of what she herself was guilty of. And that was pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. When you look at someone who is having success, maybe in, spiritual sense, Christian sense, being used by God, you may have a tendency to think that that person is getting arrogant just because they're being used and you're watching every. Everything they do and then being ready quickly to make a judgment on their arrogance. But that's not the case with Moses.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, Krish, I've noticed this, because I mentioned Sunday about pastors. And people in ministry can be some of the worst with jealousy and envy. M. Because we have such a tendency to, you know. You go to a Southern Baptist convention. Well, how's your church doing? How many you got coming now?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, what are you running?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You want it to be less than what you have, right. Because you feel better about yourself. And the guy says, so.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Then they have, like, pastor's numbers. You round it up.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right? Right. Yes. Ministerially speaking. And, rather than being genuinely happy for the guy, you're like, well, crud. Why is he being blessed and I'm not being blessed? What's the deal here, Lord? You can get to be, ungrateful, and, you can start to murmur and gripe and complain and, Yeah, I think, ministry is just an area where you have to really watch that. And you don't have to be a pastor. You're a Sunday school teacher. You sing in the choir. Why is that person getting this solo? Why are they singing on the praise team? And I'M not singing on the praise team. And you can kind of start to grumble, and gripe and complain.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. So the enemy is using that pride against you. And he will attack in that area. Hey, look at what they have. Wouldn't you love to have that? And so the enemy is whispering, and he's the deceiver, the ultimate deceiver, because he wants to break things up. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, when you think about the tenth commandment, you shall not covet, so many of the other commands. You shall not steal. Well, why do you steal? Because you saw something you wanted, you coveted. You know, you think about Achan when he saw those things under the ban in, Jericho. You know, I saw that Babylonian coat I wanted that, so I coveted. You covet before you. Before you steal. You covet before you commit adultery. You see those things that you want, and then you take them.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And it's all about the heart. The Christian life is all about the heart, keeping the heart soft. When the heart starts getting hard, it starts getting prideful. And I think the antidote really is gratitude. Being thankful for what you have. And just anyone that's listening, you can make a list of all the things that you have to be grateful for. And you're kind of surprised by how much. How many things will be on that list, because we have so much to be grateful for.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and, you know, it's always, We have that phrase, there's always a bigger dog. You know, when you play golf, you hit a good drive, and then somebody comes behind you and hits it past you. And then they. You know the phrase, well, there's always a bigger dog. There's always somebody that can do it better. And, you see these guys. I remember I met a famous, basketball player, Robert Horry, who played for your Los Angeles Lakers. He won Big shot, Bob. Won seven, I think, seven titles with
Dr. Chris Schroeder: the Rockets, the Lakers, and the Spurs. Probably about seven.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Two with the Rockets, three with the Lakers, and then two with the Spurs.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think, wow, that's crazy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: but I remember when my friend introduced me to him, he said, don't ask him about Kobe Bryant or other players, because then they just. They don't like that. Because it's like, hey, you're meeting me. You're not meeting Shaquille o' Neal or whatever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: which, by the way, Kobe Bryant said that Robert Horry was the smartest player he ever played with. Really? Yeah. He thought he was a very intellectual player.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. But, you know, there's always. I mean, meeting Robert Horry is a big deal. He's a big. But he's not Kobe Bryant.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right. He's got his own status that he wants you to talk about. Right. Yeah. It's also kind of sad when you see, like, great. What we would consider great people because they're successful in their field, like sports or whatever. And a lot of them are driven by pride, honestly. And a lot of them are driven by insecurity.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So I think insecurity is a fuel for the envy and the jealousy and so gratitude. And also just accepting yourself, who God created you to be. You have unique gifts and abilities that no one else has. And so stop looking at the gifts that someone else has and look at the gifts that you have, how God has wired you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. So I ran across, and I shared this Sunday, but I ran across that quote from Leonard Bernstein about the hardest instrument to play in the orchestra is second fiddle. everybody wants to be first chair violinist. You play, you know, you get all the accolades. You're playing the melody line and all that. But he said the second fiddle is the one that gives harmony. And, that's not the glamour position. But he said, I can't do the orchestra without second fiddle. So he said that's not an issue of ability, as it is, an issue of character and heart. Are you okay to not have the spotlight?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: I think it makes it easier if you have a, Like if you're comparing gifts. That's right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Corinthians is all about pride.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. You start comparing, then you got pride. You start looking at, okay, well, I'm good at this. This is what I'm good at. God has wired me in this way. And the number one, the leader here, she is good at this specific gift. And so just focusing on what God created you to do, and then you're able to celebrate others.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: But when you're tearing others down and not building others up, that's just insecurity, and that's a prideful heart.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And so it's time for a heart check.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And, your sermon on Sunday was very convicting. I heard a lot of people talking about the conviction of it, you know, because I think we all. Because we all struggle with pride. It's the number one sin. And it's so easy to compare with others. And so we have to stop comparing. And social media is a big, reason for this. We look at social media and we see other people's perfect life with their perfect family and their perfect situation, which isn't true. But you start comparing and then that insecurity creeps in and then you start wanting to tear others down. so just accept who you are and be grateful for who God created you to be.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, well, I used as an illustration. And the poster child for how to deal with envy and jealousy is Jonathan, Saul's son. It says in 1 Samuel, chapter 23. Now, so Saul is king. Saul has his son Jonathan, his oldest son, Prince Jonathan, who would be king if, the family of Saul and the reign of Saul continued, the house of Saul. But, God rejects Saul and he goes with David. So Jonathan is odd man out and he's not going to be the king. Well, Jonathan could have easily been very jealous of David, just like Saul was jealous of David. but he wasn't. And the Bible says this First Samuel 23. Now David became aware that Saul had come out to seek his life while David was in the wilderness of zip at Horesh. And Jonathan, Saul's son, arose and went to David at Horesh and encouraged him in God. Thus Jonathan said to him, do not be afraid, because the hand of Saul, my father, will not find you, and you will be king over Israel, and I will be next to you. And Saul, my father knows that also. boy, that speaks volumes about Jonathan's character.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Okay. All true and spiritual sense. Everything we're saying is true. I just want to add one little, another component, though. I think it's difficult to be in a, like, under hireling or whatever, like a second chair. If you are a natural choleric.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You are a leader. That's what I've just from experientially.
: Yeah.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So some people are more wired, more phlegmatic. They're able to kind of go with the flow of wherever they are. But someone who is a natural, natural leader, a choleric personality, they're going to struggle more in a second chair kind of position. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But even guys like, you know, you think of football coaches, Nick Saban, the Indiana guy, Signetti, and they all had their start at being on somebody's staff and then taking notes on how they do things and probably saying, I wouldn't do it that way. But maybe not. Probably not verbalizing that because that would cause unrest.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: A good book is, Jon Maxwell wrote a book called the 360 Leader. And it's basically like middle management. It's like second chair, middle management kind of thing. And he says that, you know, when you're ready to, you shouldn't be in that second chair. You should be in the first chair is when you start second guessing everything and you start saying, like, oh, I would do that differently. I would do that differently. Like you can imagine. I think Bill Belichick was like, on the, the Browns, like, was on the coaching staff, you know, under. I don't know who the head coach, but eventually he's Bill Belichick.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: You know, so, learning. Learning where you are.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, so think about this. The 1986 Chicago Bears.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Uh-huh.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Considered one of the greatest football teams ever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Definitely. Greatest defense ever.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. Mostly obnoxious team out.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You had Buddy Rhyen as the defensive coordinator. You have Ditka. Those are two Bulls.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: They feuded. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. but they carried Buddy off on their shoulders when they won the Super Bowl.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. Well, here's another example. Chicago sports episode here. Scottie Pippen has tons of resentment towards Jordan. That second chair is hard. He feels like he didn't get the credit that he deserved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. And then you have, other guys. You know, Jerry west was never jealous of Wilt Chamberlain. Yeah, he, he appreciated. They were pretty good friends.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Jon Stockton wasn't jealous of Karl Malone. And even, even, Charles Barkley said when he went to the Rockets toward the end of his career, he said, I've gone from being the number one guy to being the number two guy because it was Akeems team. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder. We're talking about the issue of jealousy and envy. How do you, defeat that green eyed monster that wants to eat you alive and get into your heart and just destroy everything? When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-9884. Give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back. Let me just mention, to you, we have two trips coming up with from his heart, October, 11th through the 16th. October 11th is a Sunday evening. We're flying out from Love Field, Dallas, Love Field to go to Washington, D.C. i'm, partnering with Dr. Gary Frazier, a good friend, and we're going to have a week in Washington, D.C. come back on Friday. So we're there Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, doing all the sightseeing, spending time at the Museum of The Bible. And then we come back on Friday. And, that is coming up quickly. So I'd love to have you check it out. Come with us. If you'd like to do that. You, can go to fromisheart.org to find out all the trip details. And then also April 2nd through the 11th, of 2027, Krish Schroeder and I are leading a trip to the Holy Land, and we are trusting the Lord that everything is going to be, calm in that part of the world, come April 2nd through the 11th. And we're going to have a great time walking in the footsteps of Jesus. We'd love for you to, prayerfully consider coming with us on that. There is room, on the trip for you April 2nd through the 11th. So go to from his heart.org from hisheart.org and you can click on that link and it can take you, it's with Gary Frazier's, Discovery Missions, group, and it will take you to that website where you can read about all the, the details and, the costs and things like that. So, it's going to be a great time. Both of those are going to be great trips. Okay, we're talking about the issue of jealousy and envy. From numbers, chapter 12, Miriam and Eryn. Miriam is the oldest girl, in the family. she's probably seven or eight years older than Moses. Eryn is three years older than Moses. But it's big sister and big brother talking about little brother, and they're not too happy with him. Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? They say, has he not spoken through us as well? And the Lord heard it. And the Bible says, suddenly the Lord said to Moses and Eryn And Miriam, the three that were leading. Micah 6, 4 said that, those three led Israel. And, he said, you three come out to the tent of meeting. So the three of them came out. Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and he called Eryn and Miriam. When they had both come forward, he said, hear now my words. And, you know, they have to be really nervous. If there is a prophet among you. I, the Lord, shall make myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my household. With him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings. And he beholds the form of the Lord. He did that in Exodus 34. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my Servant against Moses. So the anger of the Lord burned against them and he departed. And when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow. And Eryn turned toward Miriam. Behold, she was leprous. God weighed in very quickly and, let it be known, hey, you're not going to do this. And he nipped that in the Buddha. Well, we're going to the phone lines to, to take your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple. 858-98840. If you have a question or comment, we'd love to hear from you. And, you know, maybe you have a testimony that says, hey, I was jealous of a sibling, or I was jealous of somebody at work or as jealous, in ministry. And then I learned that, I needed to give that over to the Lord. And you experience victory. So we have, ah, Robin on the line from Virginia. Robin, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Oh, good morning, you guys. Thank you so much for the topic.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Thank you.
Caroline: I appreciate your show. And sorry to call twice in one
Speaker F: week, but hey, no problem.
Caroline: because I feel like part of what, you mentioned was that it's the number one sin. Like Lucifer, right? He wanted to, even before what happened in the garden, he wanted to be God, you know, instead of just an angel. So I just, I feel like sometimes when you have the picture image, I think of like a seesaw, you know, that either if you're insecure and you're down on yourself, you know, the downside, or if you're over puffed up, you know, and pride is on the other side. One of the things, I really appreciate, especially in honor, sort of of maybe what happened yesterday with Dolly Parton passing away. And I'm just learning more about her generous philanthropic, donations for years and years. And, you know, I want, I don't know if something along the lines of keeping one's ego in check is dealing with hardship and a time of lack and not having, like you mentioned about Moses, Moses, life, he came from wealth, and then he had very little in the wilderness. But one of the images that I really appreciated learning from a youth pastor many years ago, it was his analogy. He said, like, we all can imagine, like going to a country fair or if you haven't on a movie, there's like the house of mirrors, right, where all the mirrors are distorted. You could look like a short, fat person or it could stretch you tall. But that, ah, Jesus is the most accurate, perfect mirror that we could look into more than just a relationship with him, that he will reflect back to us through unconditional love, that he's the picture that we need to keep our eyes on of who we are. And, I'm only guessing here, but obviously through the power of the Holy Spirit, that as long as we keep our eyes on Jesus, through the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit, and us honestly giving our heart to Jesus and to God through the Holy Spirit, to help us keep our ego in check. Because it is a real difficult thing. So especially with people who are more talented or maybe have more money. You know, like the analogy, it says it's more difficult for a rich man, you know, to get into heaven than, you know, a, camel to go to the Ivan Needle. So that's just what I wanted to offer that. That image, you know, that Jesus is the perfect mirror, you know, not that we get over puffed up or feeling less than everyone else.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's a good point, Robin. You know, I talked about that, Krish. With the talents 5, 2 and 1, not everybody gets the same, right?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: So if you have that one talent, use it to the fullest, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, and just know that that's what the Lord entrusted to you. That's his business. It's his. He owns it all.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Honestly, the five talents is a lot to steward, right? You know, it's a lot. That's a lot of challenge. It's like the person that, becomes very wealthy all of a sudden, and now everyone is their friend and they want. You want something. It's a big challenge to be a steward of.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I heard Bill Bright, read in a book where he was talking about he had no qualms talking to the uber rich about giving to Campus Crusade for Christ Crew, because he said, I'm doing that person a favor. They have been given all this wealth, and, you're going to be held accountable for that. You know the phrase, he who dies with the most toys wins? Well, he who dies with the most toys dies, and the toys don't go with him. And you're going to have to answer to God, what did you do with all that I gave you?
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah. So be a blessing while you're on earth. You know, instead of just stockpiling, Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, we're talking about, always a bigger dog. you know, when it comes to wealth, you can have. You can feel like, man, I've really arrived. I'm worth $50 million.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then you meet somebody worth 100 million and there's a story that was told years ago about Warren Stevens, who has the financial institution billionaire. He was ah, supposedly at Augusta national, which is where they play the Masters. And somebody was playing cards or doing something and they were. This guy was bragging about how much money he had and Warren Stevens said, how much are you worth? As the story goes? And the Guy said like $70 million or something like that. And he pulls out a deck of cards and Warren Stevens says I'll cut you for it.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Oh, wow.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So you know, 70 million is a lot. Yeah, but that guy's worth billions and he could throw 70 million in the shredder and it like not phase him.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, it's all relative.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. So be humble. There's always a bigger dog. And as we walk with the king, there's the king. And then everybody else.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Then, then a million miles of separation for everybody else. So I appreciate the call, Robin. And we have Dannah on the line from Texas. Dannah, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Speaker F: Oh, thank you so much. And I always really appreciate when you guys are on together it is really meat, it is not milk. And it really ministers to me. And so kind of I wanted to say that I just need some prayer too because this segment, I mean this show today has really convicted me and I think we could preach about envy and jealousy until Jesus Christ comes back, you know, because whether we're secular or Christian or whatever, man. And so I, you know, it's just. I just need some prayer because I'm just, I don't know. Let me just give an example. Like for example, my husband and his mother, his sister and his sister, they get together at my 94 year old mother's house twice a month and they meet for three hours and they laugh or go through this or that. And I, through my raising, for some reason I always just felt left out. And so I'm really struggling with this to feel left out. And sometimes after they meet, it's about a week long where it calls a lot of problems in our marriage and we argue a lot more, you know, and I don't know, I just, it's just a struggle right now and I need to. And you know, I think envy and jealousy lead to hate too and not love. We. It messes up our love for people.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you wish ill on that person. You can, you can find yourself, Dannah. Whether it's a, ah, whether it's a sibling or whether it's somebody at work, or whether it's somebody on the team that took your starting spot or whatever you can wish they fail and, they get hurt or something like that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, Dannah, I appreciate your humility. And then also your awareness will serve you well. And that is, definitely something difficult when you feel like you're being overlooked. Something that's helped me and I have that same struggle that you just shared is God. One of his names is El. Roy means that he sees you. And so even when it seems like you're being overlooked and even in your own family, God sees you. God definitely sees you for who you are and you're his creation.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I love the fact that, when the Lord chose the woman to be the mother of the Christ child, he chose somebody way off the beaten path in Nazareth. I mean, can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Yeah. He sees the small and the despised and the forgotten.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: And having an eternal perspective helps a lot. You know that this is all temporal on earth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Dannah. I appreciate you calling in. I appreciate your honesty about that. And I think you're right. There's a lot to say about this because it comes up, that green eyed monster comes knocking on everybody's door, a lot. you can't let it in, because as God told Cain, behold, sin is crouching at the door and its desires for you, but you must master it. And that sin crouches at the door often. and if we allow ourselves to go that direction and dwell on that, we can really get to be ungrateful, and just hateful and, it's not good at all. Well, Krish, I was thinking about this. So, you know, you're talking about how, you know, there's always somebody bigger, there's always somebody that, you know, a preacher that has more notoriety. Farrah Fawcett died on June 25, my birthday, 2009. And it was just a few hours later, five hours later. You know, everybody's talking about Farrah, like Dolly Parton, you know, everybody talking about that, that, well, Farah Faso was big news. that lasted five hours until Micah Jackson died. And then she's just totally. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, if you're her family, you're thinking, oh, wait a minute, you know, Pharaoh died. Let's, let's talk about that. But it just gets totally washed away. and I think when, you know, when you, when you have that desire that I need to be like Miriam, God's Spoken through me. And I'm a prophetess. And, you know, it's not just Moses. And when that is lurking in there, look at me.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: It kind of reminds me, as you're talking, it's reminding me of the prodigal son with the brother and the prodigal son. You know, I've been faithful. I've been here. I've been right by your side. And now my brother, who's totally squandered everything and run off from home, and now he's come back and you're celebrating him, you know, so that, that envy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and that, that was so, you know, that was, that was a parable that showed the Jews that, you don't have to be like that. But that's, that's who you are. You, you think that, the gentiles are dogs and, you know, if, if the riff raff, the tax collectors and sinners, how dare God have any regard for those people? We're your chosen people. We're the ones that study the law. You know, that kind of thing. You just get arrogant in your religion and the Lord hates that.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, we've got to guard against that, being religious, because we can fall into that trap. We've been in the church for a long time and start thinking that you're better than right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and I think that's one of the wonderful things, about the ministry. So celebrate recovery in our church. It just reminds you constantly that, hey, this is what we're about. We're, you know, just seeking. The Lord's ministry is seeking to save that which was lost. Go out into the highways and the byways and gather them into my house. And, whether the person has a lot or a little or nothing at all, they. They're special and precious to God.
Dr. Chris Schroeder: Yeah, that's right. And so thankful for many like that, where we look for those who are down and out. Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Because, we have what they need. We have what the down and out need, what the up and out need. And that is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Well, thanks so much, for listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here along with Dr. Krish Schroeder. And, maybe you can share this program with somebody who is really struggling in the area of sibling rivalry, struggling with jealousy, struggling with envy, because the answer is found in the Lord. We keep our eyes fixed on him. We're grateful and thankful and just know that God is going to reward us in the end. God bless you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve and Dr. Chris Schroeder explore the destructive “green-eyed monster” of jealousy and envy through the story of Miriam and Aaron’s jealousy toward Moses in Numbers 12. They explain the difference between envy—wanting what someone else has—and jealousy—fearing the loss of what we have—and show how both are rooted in pride and insecurity. Through biblical examples including Joseph, Jonathan and David, and the prodigal son, they discuss sibling rivalry, comparison, competition, ministry, relationships, and the temptation to measure our worth by someone else’s success. The conversation points listeners toward humility, gratitude, contentment, and keeping their eyes fixed on Christ rather than comparing themselves with others.
Pastor Jeff Schreve and Dr. Chris Schroeder explore the destructive “green-eyed monster” of jealousy and envy through the story of Miriam and Aaron’s jealousy toward Moses in Numbers 12. They explain the difference between envy—wanting what someone else has—and jealousy—fearing the loss of what we have—and show how both are rooted in pride and insecurity. Through biblical examples including Joseph, Jonathan and David, and the prodigal son, they discuss sibling rivalry, comparison, competition, ministry, relationships, and the temptation to measure our worth by someone else’s success. The conversation points listeners toward humility, gratitude, contentment, and keeping their eyes fixed on Christ rather than comparing themselves with others.
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