Speaker C Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, Senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's
Pastor Jeff Schreve Pastor Jeff. Well, good Friday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. Hope that you had, a good night's sleep and ready to go for this Friday morning. Wanted to read to you a passage that we refer to often on Real Truth for today. Paul's last, word, Second Timothy, the last epistle he ever wrote before he was martyred for his faith under Nero. He says this in the last chapter of the last epistle he ever wrote to Timothy. I solemnly charge you. Second Timothy 4, 1. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom. Preach the Word. Be ready in season and out of season. When it's convenient. When it's not convenient. Preach the word. Reprove, rebuke, exhort. With great patience and instruction. Why Paul for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Introduction of Phoenix Hayes and Discussion on the War on Reality and Societal Issues
Well, it is a privilege today to welcome to the program author and speaker Phoenix Hayes. She and Frank Turek have a brand new book out called the War on Reality. And, here's a picture of the book. And in this book they answer lots and lots of questions. Questions about, truth and, fantasy about what we are facing in our world today. As the world seemingly goes crazy. we have a problem in America where we can't Tell the difference between good and evil. That's a problem in the world. But we voted this past Tuesday, we voted for that which sounds good and it truly is evil in my estimation. And, we said, hey, we want to follow baal, and if you sow the wind, you're going to reap the whirlwind. We know that this isn't going to go well. We know that things go well when we walk with God. Things don't go well when we don't. But it's a, privilege to welcome Phoenix Hayes to the program. So, Phoenix, thank you so much for coming on today.
Phoenix Hayes Shares Her Background and Journey to America and Faith
Speaker C Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve I feel like I'm talking to Olivia Newton Jon.
Speaker C Close. Different country, but very close.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, you sound a lot like her. Okay, so, Phoenix, for our listeners who may not be familiar with you, give us a little bit about your background and, how you came to know Frank and do this and wrote this book with him.
Speaker C Yeah, well, I suppose the first thing people will pick up on is the accent, so. I was born and raised in NewSong Zealand and did not have America on my radar at all. But God had other plans. And, you know, funnily enough, after I think I had finished high school, I went over to Europe and thinking that I would have my grand adventure before going on to university. And. And I did. But God placed me just outside the American Air Force base in Ramstein, where I met Americans for the first time and attended an American church. And I just fell in love with the American people. Not that I had any negative feeling toward them. I was very neutral. and I. But I just adored the way, the American culture represented among this, you know, microcosm of patriots, because most of them are military, and of course, they were mostly Christian, were just so proud of their country, prepared to fight, prepared to celebrate, prepared to be upfront and honest. There was none of this polite. And I don't mean that they were rude, but, in. In NewSong Zealand and the UK you tend to just sort of mutter your feelings about things privately. But I just. That was never me anyway. I just fell in love with this people. And I thought, lord, I take me there. I want to go there. I want to understand this country better, to see how it created these kinds of members of this society.
Phoenix Hayes's Spiritual Journey and Transition into Apologetics and Book Writing
And my goodness, what a long way we've come since then, when, now you just meet people who have such disdain for their own country, and yet they've never stepped outside of it. So that's what brought me to America. I Ended up coming here after college. I met my husband, and the rest is history, really.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix. When did you come to know Christ in a real way?
Speaker C I was blessed that I was raised in a Christian home in NewSong Zealand. Even though it, it's a very. I compare it to the Pacific Northwest of America. It's very liberal, very socialistic leaning. But the beauty of that was I came from, an environment where people didn't claim the name of Christ unless they really wanted it, unless they really meant it. And it also meant that I was being pressed, but with objections very early on. So I was able to ask my parents challenging questions. Well, why do we believe this and why do we do that? And they, although certainly not trained in apologetics, were able to give me enough of an answer that sort of satisfied an inquisitive teenager. So between that and by God's complete mercy, he just made himself very real to me at a young age that I can take no credit for. And, and so. So really a lifelong Christian, but it wasn't until I discovered apologetics maybe six years ago through, you know, scrolling through YouTube and things like that, where I realized, oh, this is what I meant to do. And that's where I connected with Frank. He at the time needed a part time research assistant and a copywriter. So I applied and got it. And from there again, I say, the rest is history. I ended up being the creative director for three, while I was also in seminary. And I pitched this book idea to Frank. He loved it.
The Book 'The War on Reality' Critiques Societal Issues like Gender Ideology and Medical Practices
And now we're holding it in our hands. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah. Well, the book is called the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates Lies. very straightforward. That's exactly where we're living today. We have a world that celebrates lies. We have candidates in America who pretend, that gender is fluid. they won't answer, you know, on the, on the left, they won't even answer the question, what is a woman? I mentioned in a sermon just, last week, the WNBA Women's National Basketball association doesn't even know what a woman is. But it's just, it's overrun with LGBTQ ideology. So, the T is in that, that acronym. And so you gotta, you gotta hang with the team. So it's filled with lesbians. I talked to a former WNBA player. I said, how many lesbians are in the wnba? She said, you know, more than half are lesbians. And so if you're a lesbian, you can't go against the trans community, because that's kind of, you got to be in lockstep there. And so they can't even divine, define the word women,
Pastor Jeff Schreve which is just mind blowing. you have the medical community that they need to read this book. They're part of the war on reality because they want to make money on, changing kids, gender. it's just insanity. So, Phoenix, let's get into the book.
The Book's Opening: A Personal Account of Tragedy and Societal Disdain for Truth
what is reality and why does it matter? The book begins with Frank telling a firsthand account of being there with Charlie when he was murdered. it's hard to read that without tears streaming down your face because you think about how what a great man Charlie Kirk was, made such an impact in his short life. And, for somebody to do what he did and then for Frank to be there and seeing Charlie's life just, you know, bleed out on his, in his lap. hard to, just fathom that. And we have people today, as I mentioned to you, Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan were on a podcast just yesterday, laughing about that. And you say, wait a minute, is this the party of love and tolerance? And, they're laughing about Charlie Kirk getting murdered. give me your thoughts on, how the book opens.
Speaker C Yeah, so, of course.
Dedication to Charlie Kirk and the Book's Approach to Heavy Topics with Personal Relatability
So the book was 70% done before that awful day last September. and really the introduction was going to be nothing more than. We don't like introductions. Let's just jump straight to chapter one. That was Frank's attitude toward it. So that got thrown out when this event happened. Of course I knew that Frank was in the area. I had no idea that he was right there next to Charlie when it happened, when I received word, because Frank, of course, he had his cell phone taken from him, from the police because they, I mean, he was out of communication. But I remember thinking immediately, we have to dedicate this book to Charlie. I can't think of anybody who has put more on the line when it comes to not only defending what is true, what is real, what is good, but also the source of that truth and that goodness being God, of course. And it cost him everything. And so we absolutely wanted to dedicate it to him. So that opening the whole book, as you know, has to cover some pretty heavy topics, not only from an emotional perspective, but like a cognitive one. We're going into some deep theology and philosophy to explain how we got here. And we do it as light heartedly as possible. We, we really avoid using unnecessary academic terms and things like that. But these are still big concepts. So it made perfect sense to take something very personal and Relational to open the book with, because that's the whole point of this. It's not just to be correct about God and the world. It's to be able to reach people and help them be in alignment with what is actually true and same for ourselves.
Processing Grief and the Impact of Loss on a Wider Community After Charlie Kirk's Death
So to demonstrate that that's going to cost you something. It certainly cost Charlie something. And we're not always going to do it perfectly, but we do it anyway. We do our best. And, just to highlight that. That moment for Frank especially. And. But what was so interesting is it wasn't just a chapter about Frank's experience, because everyone I spoke to, myself included, I felt such a weight for weeks after this event. And I didn't have a personal relationship with Charlie. I had the privilege of meeting him once, shook his hand, exchanged a few words, and that was it. But it wasn't just me. I found myself talking to other Christians, and they felt the same way. And it was a question of, why am I feeling this heaviness from this stranger that's been taken? And so the chapter allowed us to process it a little bit. Like, what did it mean for the millions of people who did know him personally and yet felt this heavy weight at his loss?
The Book's Impact and Discussion on Societal Inability to Process Moral Truth
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, it grips you right at the start because that is a great way to start a book. and to have one of the authors. I know you did probably the lion's share of the work on the book, but to have one of the authors that was actually there, just puts it in a new perspective. And, Charlie had a big impact, and the book is going to have a big impact. You know, I love the fact that, you guys have tackled these subjects. Phoenix. I always think about, Romans 1, you know, when you say no to God, we don't want to follow you. Even though they knew about God, they did not regard equality or they did not want to follow him, they didn't want to acknowledge God. So God gives people over like that to a depraved mind, first to sexual immorality, then to homosexual immorality, and then to a depraved mind, a mind that no longer functions. Okay, so when I think about society, and we're coming up on a break, so we may have to pick this up, the other side. But when I think about society and the issues that you deal with in this book, lots of times, just like you saw with Charlie, you see with Frank, when they're on college campuses, you're talking to people that. That cannot process moral truth. They can't process reality. share a little bit about that. We just have a minute before break.
Discouragement in Apologetics and Evangelism When Facing Depraved Minds and the Need for Prayer
Speaker C Yeah. That I would say we are there. And it is the most discouraging aspect of doing evangelism and apologetics work because we've been equipped with the truth. If you have been trained in apologetics, you have dedicated years to being able to deliver sound argument, sound reasonable explanations for why we believe what we believe. And yet when you meet a depraved mind and you never know, you give everyone the benefit of the doubt because you're just praying that there is enough softness there that the Holy Spirit will do his work.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah.
Speaker C You feel as though. Sorry,
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix. I'm sorry. I, want you to pick up that thought when we come back. You're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here talking to Phoenix Hayes. The book is the War on Reality. We'll be right back.
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Theological Basis for a Reprobate Mind and Interacting with Those Who Reject Moral Reality
This is Real Truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Welcome back to the program. I'm talking to Phoenix Hayes. She is the author along with Frank Turek, the brand new book the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates lies. Great title and subtitle. We were talking, right at the break about this situation, where God gives a people over to a reprobate depraved mind. It says, that the people exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Basically what the book talks about and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever. And it says, goes on to say, just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved reprobate mind to do those things which are not proper. Okay, so Phoenix, we said, you know, when you're on college campuses and the work that Frank does and his ministry does, as you're a part of that, you're trained to answer these questions logically, historically, scripturally, and bring everything to bear in defending the faith. And these people that you're talking to, just as many have seen Charlie Kirk do that, they don't have a grasp of moral reality. They want to make up their own reality. So how do you, or how do we, interact in that kind of environment?
Speaker C Yeah, so as I was saying, when you've been trained to not get emotional, understand that the person you're speaking to does not regard scripture as reliable or authoritative.
Leaning on Reasoning and Prayer When Facing Minds Enmeshed in Lies and Spiritual Battles
It means you need to lean back on. Okay, let's use basic reasoning skills and we'll try and get them there to then believing what the Bible says and things like that. But when you're talking to someone who is so enmeshed in lies that they've given up their ability to reason and apply logic, you feel as though your last weapon has been taken away. And it can be very discouraging. You just like, okay, I, don't know how to reach you other than the Holy Spirit performing a miracle. And at that point it really is about prayer. So of course we approach every conversation as though this is someone who's come here in good faith, who genuinely wants answers and is going to listen. And they don't need to agree, but they have the ability still to at least consider your points. You go in with that hope every time. And if it doesn't work out that way, each time you do, you've done the best you can. And ultimately no one gets saved without the Holy Spirit doing this work anyway,
Pastor Jeff Schreve right? Well, it is a major concern. You know, we talk a lot about in America, talk a lot about mental health issues. And I really think that, you know, the medical community is not going to talk about demonic possession.
Examining the War on the Mind: Deception, Mental Health, and Spiritual Oppression
But you see, especially with women, you see these women that are just red faced and they're so adamant about this, that and the other, whatever the liberal cause is, things are not rational. And you say there's got to be more to it than just, they're ticked off about a lie they believe. I think the devil is involved in this and all the drugs that people are taking today to combat depression and this and that and the other. you guys probably see that a lot on college campuses,
Speaker C right? I don't have the pleasure of traveling with. To the college campuses so much as, of course, Frank does. But, yes, we certainly see it. In fact, we dedicated a whole chapter to this very issue. We call it the War on the Mind. And in it, we tackle it from three different angles by following one, deception. Two, mental health, because that certainly is a component. And then third, the spiritual oppression piece. And honestly, the three go hand in hand. And our error is when we deny one or the other and lean too far into the medical and just, you know, want to prescribe something for everything or the other, where everything is demonic and they don't seek medical attention if there is honestly a chemical imbalance going on that's making them vulnerable to that spiritual influence.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right. you see people like, the lady that strangled her children. You have four children. I mean, it's so foreign to a normal person's mind that you would do that to your own children.
Demonic Influence and Societal Choices: Examining Extreme Actions and Political Ideologies
I've stated that, you know, people, oh, ah, she's mentally ill. It's like, that's demonic. she might have some other things going on, but the demons are rejoicing in what that lady is doing.
Speaker C Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve So it is a. And we're seeing it younger and younger, in these younger people. I mean, just the vote on Tuesday, people voting for socialism and candidates that are Islamic and socialistic.
Speaker C and funded by terrorist groups.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, I mean,
Speaker C certainly funded.
Pastor Jeff Schreve You know, I had, saw this, these Jewish people wearing T shirts that says Jews for El Sayed. it's like that guy hates you. And, he's part of the Islamic regime that wants to, wipe out Jews. you know, he won't say that, but it's obvious that's where he's coming from. And to wear a T shirt.
The Book's Structure: Defining Reality, Challenging Subjectivity, and Living Authentically
I had shared in a sermon, Phoenix, just Sunday. I said there was a group during Hitler's, rise to power that was basically Jews for Hitler. that didn't last very long, because as soon as they voted him into power, he voted them into the concentration camps. okay, so the book is. Is predicated on all these questions. What is reality and why does it matter? Part one, part two. Why can't I make my own reality? That's kind of where we're living today. Kids want to make their own reality. I want to be what I want to be. If I say I'm a girl, I'm a girl. If I say I'm this, I'm that. and then how can I live according to reality? So you kind of sum it up in part three. This is. This is the truth. Give me your, take on maybe, some really key chapters as you put this book together. The ones that really hit, hard for you personally.
Distinguishing Reality from Truth and the Importance of Precise Language in Discipleship
Speaker C I suppose. Really, the chapters that were the most interesting for Frank and I were in section three, where we're really getting down to the specifics. The war on information, the war on the mind, the war on politics, the war on the family, things like that. But we kept thinking of counter objections to, well, wait a second. What do we even mean by reality? What's the difference between reality and truth? What's the difference between truth and experience and perspective and belief? So it forced us to peel the layers back and establish that foundation in part one. And then, we add more clarification in part two. But I guess the first thing that I just wish everyone could. I think we understand this intuitively, but we're not using the language appropriately. And then when we don't use the language correctly, we get confused. Truth and reality are not synonymous. Truth is the language we use to describe reality. So this is how we know if something is true, an error or a lie, by comparing it to what is real.
Belief vs. Truth: Understanding Personal Experience and Maintaining Humility About Limited Perspectives
Right,
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right.
Speaker C Belief, is not necessarily truth. It is a conclusion you've made about reality. So when we use expressions like, well, that's her reality. People need to bear in mind that we don't really mean that, though. There is no your reality, my reality, there's certainly your experience of reality. And because each of us, none of us have omniscience, each of us are trapped within our own bodies. Bodies. And can only interact with the world and people as we are limited to do. It does mean that we are going to have our own slightly skewed perspective on reality. But we need to maintain that humility, knowing that because we're not God, we don't see all, know all. We do, need to rely on our senses. We need to rely on other people's experiences of reality and pull that all together to establish our best picture of what's true and real. So when people start talking about this, well, this is her reality, as though that justifies their belief. We need to get part of the pun. We need to get real here and say, okay, but their perspective is wrong. And that's not a critique of their value or their intelligence. It's just we all need to be a bit more humble about the fact that we're limited. And experience measures and experience and perspective will certainly skew, for better or worse, how you interact with reality, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to adjust to, prop up your belief about what reality is. This goes particularly for the transgender activists. There's no denying that it's real in your mind that you are, say, a man trapped in a woman's body.
Addressing Transgender Activism and the Clash Between Personal Beliefs and Objective Reality
However, you are wrong about that belief. Right. And the world does not need to accommodate reality, as in bathrooms and women's sports teams, to make you feel more comfortable. So that's one example of many. But, to. To. I really liked your question about which of the issues really, really, really, struck me the most. I would say, well, two, two chapters. One is the one on oppression, Cultural Marxism, because it's just everywhere it seems to be. It's the concept that you are inherently evil, shall we say, because of your skin color, your economic status, your.
Critique of Cultural Marxism and its Anti-Biblical Tenets Regarding Identity and Equality
Pastor Jeff Schreve Oh, she froze.
Speaker C While those who have different ones need, to be raised up. And it just, it's. It's completely anti biblical. We don't measure the worth or the voice or the truth of someone according to which identity group they belong to.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, you know, Phoenix, I've always said this. when you, when you start talking about all this stuff with race, you know, Martin Luther King's dream was really good. My, four children will be judged not on the color of their skin, the content of their. But the content of their character. Well, we've flipped that on its head. Everything's about the color of somebody's skin. And, that is just. That is just wrong. And so, you know, the Bible doesn't, doesn't pit people against each other like that. one of the things you bring up, you talk about, Marxism.
Distinguishing Marxism as Theory from Communism as Implemented System
You say there's a difference between Marxism and communism. Explain to us the difference between those two.
Speaker C Yeah, I guess the simplest explanation would be Marxism is the theory. It's the conversation that the academics have in their ivory towers about how they think the world is and what they think the problem is and what they think the solution is. Communism is all those terrible ideas implemented into an economic and political system.
Marxism's Evolution: From Economic Collectivism to Cultural Power Dynamics
So it's. We sort of talk about people who. Philosophers have the luxury of ideas, whereas politicians actually have to implement them and test them out. And communism is the failed result of Marxism again and again. And now, Marxism has shifted slightly. So it's taken those same ideas about. Basically the ultimate problem with humanity is we are not living as a collective, we're living as individuals. And that makes us unhappy and makes us feel oppressed. And really the solution is to abandon all sense of individuality and private property. Even going so far as rejecting the concept of one spouse for life because that would be property, it would be exclusionary that no one else can sleep with your, your spouse. Things like that, same thing with your children. And making everything just one collective. And by doing so we'll all be happier, we'll all be richer, healthier, stronger, and live in a utopia. But of course this idea completely denies sin. It denies the reality of how people actually operate.
The War on Reality: Potential Reception by a Fair-Minded Leftist and Bill Maher's Perspective
And it failed. Well now they've taken that same approach, taken the emphasis less off economics and applied it more to cultural power. So those who it's not about whoever has the most money that is evil. It's whoever has the most cultural influence, the most cultural power, which in their view is typically the white middle class Christian man, which I would argue is not true at all anymore. But that's the idea. And they need to seize that power so that they can then influence media, academia, politics, law. And that's what they've been doing.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix, let me ask you this. So the war on reality. if I'm a leftist and I read this book, where am I, am I going to just disagree with every page? Am I going to, let's say, and I don't know if these people exist. I'm a fair minded leftist. I am totally into the liberal camp, but I'm not just, I think Bill Maher, to a certain extent he's a leftist, but he hasn't left his brains at the door.
Speaker C yeah, in fact I think we quote him in the book. So I think he'd agree with a lot of our commentary.
Leftist Agreement with Conclusions but Disagreement with Methods: Simplifying Views and Maintaining Lightness
Pastor Jeff Schreve So where do you think a, fair minded leftist would, would balk at what you're saying? What, what specific things? When you start talking about truth is from what, from God?
Speaker C Yeah, that's an interesting question. Is the leftist, do they think they're a Christian because there's plenty of those, or are they, you know, in denial of any ultimate authority? I think. Hm. Someone who was a fair minded. I'm trying to rephrase what, what you asked. Okay. A fit. A fair minded leftist I think would agree with a lot of the conclusions. They wouldn't necessarily agree with how we got to those conclusions because we're basing it on our understanding of the world according to how God has explained it to us.
Right.
Speaker C But they may still, I would expect them to still agree with the conclusion, if not the method of how we got there, the critique. They may have is when we have to oversimplify their views. And I never, like. No one likes to straw man someone's view represented as weaker than what it is, but sometimes you almost have to. And it's not the desire to make it appear more. More foolish than it is, but to just. That sometimes happens when you have to simplify and condense a, view that could take up volumes of books into something very, very simple. And also because it's so heavy, we try and make fun. We try and keep it light. Yeah. So I could.
Book Recommendation and Call to Action for 'The War on Reality'
I would. I think that would be a fair critique if someone who holds those views says, well, that's not entirely what we believe. I, I understand that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Let me break in. We're talking to, Phoenix Hayes, the book the War on Reality. If you have a question or comment, we'd love to hear from you. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. Give me a call and let's talk.
The Urgency of 'The War on Reality': A Resource for Individuals, Families, and Churches
If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email Pastor JeffRomhisheart. Now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff. Here we're talking to Phoenix Hayes. She and Frank Turek, have written the brand new book the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates Lies. I can't recommend this book enough because it just hits exactly where we're living today, the society in which we're living today, the America that we have today. I, would think that it would be a, great read for a high school student, for parents that are homeschooling. say, hey, we're going to go through this book together. I would think it would be a good book for a church staff to go through together. Hey, we're just going to tackle a chapter at a time. 16 chapters in the book. so part one, what is reality and why does it matter? Part two, why can't I make my own reality big issue today? And part three, how can I live according to reality?
Critique of Liberal Arts and Marxism: The Failure to Define Basic Concepts and Embrace Flawed Ideologies
that is important to live according to reality. You know, Phoenix, one of the things that you see in, institutions of higher learning in colleges and universities, you, have all these liberal arts professors that m. You know, I'm in charge of women's studies. I can't define the word woman. you know, that kind of, gobbledygook does not work in the math department. does not work in the engineering department. It should not work in the medical department because the Human body is what the human body is, and you're performing surgery, you can't make it up as you go because you want this to be connected to that, out of your mind. But when it comes to ideas, as you talk about ideas, you got guys that just make all this stuff up and they never have to necessarily defend it. They just throw it out there. Ah, so Marxism is a good example. Marxism is this idea that fails horribly every time it is implemented, yet people keep embracing it. so when you deal with that in your book, why do you think that is? Why are people so, just to be blunt, so stupid as to think, well, now, this time it'll work?
Speaker C Yeah, that's such a great question. The reason is because Marxism is a religion. It's a godless religion, and they know it is.
Marxism as a Godless Religion: Its Worldview, Faith Element, and Repeated Failures
It meets the definition that the state holds. It's why humanism is classed as a religion even though it denies the existence of God. Marxism also does, however, if it were categorized that way, they wouldn't be allowed to teach it in public schools. So those who advocate for it have resisted that label precisely because it would limit their influence. But this is not just a theory of how the world works. It's an all encompassing worldview, whether those who follow it would understand that or fully acknowledge that or not. And with any worldview, there's an element of faith. And that is why they are so convinced that this truly is the explanation for why the world is unfair and unjust and there are problems and they truly believe that this is the solution. And they are so committed to that belief that every time it fails, the answer can't be because the system or their idea has failed. It's because the, implementation was wrong.
The Cyclical Nature of Failed Ideologies and Listener Call-In
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, great answer to that. they keep rolling it back out. It fails every time because it's just a failed ideology. Well, we're going to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. If you have a question for Phoenix, we'd love to hear from you. And we have, Mona on the line from Kentucky. Mona, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Hi. Good morning.
A Christian Counselor's Struggle Against Indoctrination and Ethical Restrictions
Good
Pastor Jeff Schreve morning.
Caroline I listen to Pastor Jeff all the time, but I've also listened to Phoenix and Frank talk about their book, on their channel, on the Internet. And I, am a counselor, licensed counselor, and a professor who teaches people to become counselors. And I'm a Christian in a secular world. And I am confined by ethics. And I, wonder if you have any suggestions Phoenix for me, because it's really like pushing water Uphill, it becomes very exhausting, to continue to fight, against the torrent of water, from our public education system, that has indoctrinated our children and, the evil of this worldview that is just. I mean, it's like an inkblot just taking over the white. Whiteness of the paper. So any suggestions for me, because I have such restrictions ethically, it becomes frustrating and disheartening.
Encouragement for Christian Counselors: Recognizing Spiritual Warfare and Asking Questions
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, that would be very hard. Phoenix, any encouragement for Mona?
Speaker C Yeah, the encouragement would be. I mean, I get it. It is. It's so disheartening. my encouragement would be to remember that you are not fighting against reasonable people anymore. that's not to degrade them. You are fighting against spiritual powers at work. And recognizing that, in a sense, takes some of that personal pressure off because you realize this isn't. We're at a point where there is. It isn't about what do I do? Because it's not the physical. It's a spiritual battle we're up against. Now, that doesn't mean do nothing, be faithful. Now, you're also in a very awkward position because this is your livelihood. How do you hold on and defend truth without, losing your income and providing for your family, things like that? I think one of the best ways, although unfortunately, those who don't have the truth for find even this too aggressive. But I was going to say simply asking questions. Well, why are we teaching it this way? What evidence is this? Based on what? What results have we seen from this? the question comes off as less aggressive. Although, unfortunately, even today I've discovered that people get very worked up by simply being asked questions.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yes.
Speaker C And, that's why you just get disheartened, because you're like, well, at that point, what have we got left? I'm not going to yell at you and use violence and. But if I can't even pose a question
Pastor Jeff Schreve right
The Cost of Truth and the Importance of Responding Gracefully Amidst Opposition
Speaker C to you and you're offended, where do we go from here? I'm sorry. That wasn't very encouraging.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, but, but it's true. It's true. And, you know, as we began the program, talking about Charlie Kirk, Charlie Kirk, you know, hey, prove me wrong. Ask me anything. That kind of thing. they shot him for it. And so, as Frank writes in the first chapter of the book, when you can't have an argument anymore, then you result in. You defer to violence, and I'm going to shut you up and that kind of thing. Well, I appreciate it, Mona, and appreciate what you do because, that is the Front lines. And it's very, very difficult, with what you do. So hang in there. As Phoenix said, it is a spiritual battle, so put on the full armor of God every day as you go to work and, stand up for the truth.
Listener Encouragement and Scriptural Reflection on Healing and Truth
Well, we have our friend Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Well, thank you. And I have to tell you, I have written underneath your name real news, not fake news. That's what I tell people to turn on to you. This happened on Wednesday with the elections, how they turned out and all. And I was listening to you. And at the same time, you know how the Lord speaks the word to you? He said to me, balm of Gilead. And I started looking up verse, Balm and Gilead. Okay. And, the scripture that really hit me was Jeremiah. let's see. Wait. Okay. I'm sorry. is there no bomb in Gilead? Is there no physician there? So why has the healing of my dear people not come about. Then I went to nine, and it says here, and it's just exactly what the conversation is going on here.
The Power of God's Word Against Deception and Flooding Enemies
They bent their tongues like their bows. Lies and not fathomless prevail in the land. For they proceed from one evil to another, and they do not take me into account. This is the Lord's declaration, and I'm going to end with this, because this is what he ended with me. Oh, I don't have the scripture, but, the last thing he said to me is, when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Lord raises up a standard, the power of His Word. And I thought, whoa, what a way to end that. You know, it's like His Word is going to, you know, bring the breakthrough.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah. Amen to that. Well, thank you, Linda. I appreciate that. Appreciate your encouragement. We have Susan on the line from Virginia.
Unlocking Locked Mindsets: The Challenges of Reaching Indoctrinated Youth and Observing Interactions
Susan, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Hi. Thank you, Pastor Jazz. Hi, Phoenix. Question. I believe you meant. Hi. I believe you mentioned at the beginning of your segment that when Frank Tureg would speak on campus, and, the kids just weren't able to understand or relate, how successful has he been able to unlock. They get, break through these kids locked mindsets, because they are so. They're. They're conscious. Not conscious. Well, maybe some of that, too, but they're just unable to process what you're. What you're sharing.
Speaker C Yes. Yeah. In a way we'll never know because we don't. We don't get to often see the fruit that comes from the Seeds that we drop. Right? Which is one reason why please don't get discouraged. I should have said this, Demona, because we are dropping seeds of truth every time we speak them. whether or not we know they're taking root or not, we won't know, maybe until eternity. Often Frank knows that his.
Pastor Jeff Schreve M. I need some Internet trouble.
Speaker C And that's not because the people there in front of him don't matter. They do immensely. But when you're there in person, stepping up to the mic, you have something to lose if you are, if you concede. And these are young people who have been fully indoctrinated, stepping up, ready to fight, ready to debate Frank. And they're not going to necessarily concede the point. And he knows that. He doesn't expect them to. And they may not do so for a long while. We pray that they do. But it's the people who are on the fence observing the interaction. Which is another reason why it's so important for Christians to not lose their cool. Maintain your calm, be respectful, be graceful. Because it's not about the person necessarily in front of you. It's all the people watching who are going to take away and consider what you both discussed.
Pastor Jeff Schreve And that is not easy.
Responding with Grace and the Indefensibility of Certain Ideologies
It can really be difficult. But you're exactly right. I had Phoenix, somebody tell me early in my pastorate, they said, hey, if you get opposed in a meeting, a business meeting or whatever, and the person can be coming, just all wrong and accusing you of things and have a bad attitude, but it doesn't matter. The church is watching to see how you respond. And if you respond in kind to that person, they don't diminish them, they diminish you because they say, well, you shouldn't do that, you're the pastor, blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, and Charlie and Frank do a good job with that. they don't get red faced with people. But, there is an urgency. I, love how you said Phoenix. We share the word of God with people because the word doesn't return void. We may not see the work that God does, but I guarantee you those people are going back in their. The Lord can bring that to their mind. They're thinking through some of these positions that make no rational sense. I mean, they're indefensible. Transgenderism is indefensible.
Societal and Parental Failures Leading Children Astray in the Digital Age
It just makes no sense. So. Okay, I appreciate that, Susan. We have David on the line from North Carolina. David, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Yeah, good morning. I feel like I'm out of My elements, because I'm not a psychologist or, or anything like that. But what I see as the Bible tells us we're supposed to raise our children and teach them the ways of the world and what to look for and what to be aware of and what to do and not do. And we as a society, each household, we failed. We're so bent on competing with our neighbors, with the house and the car and the Job and the 401 and the kids are getting lost in the shuffle and then they're trying to fend for themselves and they go to TikTok and they look at things that are totally unsatisfying and unrewarding because that's the only place they know to turn to because the parents and the families have failed them. That's my opinion.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Okay, thanks David.
Speaker C I agree.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Okay, so Phoenix, the breakdown of the family. How much does that play into the war on reality?
The Dissolution of Marriage and Family: Redefining Covenant and Purpose Beyond Emotions
Speaker C Well, we, we address it more from a ah, political and cultural perspective. The the dissolution of understanding what marriage really was created for. It's not simply, you know, an arrangement between two people who have emotions for one another. But unfortunately I think a lot of the church has accepted that definition of what marriage is. If you feel loved toward each other, you get married. Well, if you water it down to that, then why wouldn't you tolerate same sex marriage? M. Because hey, they have feelings for each other too. Why wouldn't you let them marry? But of course that's not the definition of marriage. It's a covenant. It's a lifelong promise and it's designed not only for our mutual pleasure, but for our sanctification. Marriage is hard and then if you are blessed to do so, it's also for procreation and stabilizing society. So we unpack all of that. That it's, it's about so much more than what I think Hollywood has reduced marriage and family to.
Concluding Thoughts on 'The War on Reality' and Encouragement for Listeners
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right. Very good. Well Phoenix, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate, appreciate your work on this, the war on reality, recovering truth in a world that celebrates lies. Let me encourage you to pick up a copy of this and Phoenix, it's been a wonderful hour with you. I appreciate you all that you do and ask God to bless you and continue to use you in great ways.
Speaker C Thank you so much for having me. It was a joy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Good. Well go out today.
Final Encouragement: Shine for Christ, Share His Deeds, and Worship the Lord
We always talk about two words. Shine and share. Shine for Christ and share what great things the Lord has done for you. And guess what? God will use you as his witness. And, hey, make it a great weekend and be in church on Sunday to worship the Lord who is king of kings and Lord of Lords. God bless.
Speaker C Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, Senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's
Pastor Jeff Schreve Pastor Jeff. Well, good Friday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. Hope that you had, a good night's sleep and ready to go for this Friday morning. Wanted to read to you a passage that we refer to often on Real Truth for today. Paul's last, word, Second Timothy, the last epistle he ever wrote before he was martyred for his faith under Nero. He says this in the last chapter of the last epistle he ever wrote to Timothy. I solemnly charge you. Second Timothy 4, 1. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom. Preach the Word. Be ready in season and out of season. When it's convenient. When it's not convenient. Preach the word. Reprove, rebuke, exhort. With great patience and instruction. Why Paul for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Introduction of Phoenix Hayes and Discussion on the War on Reality and Societal Issues
Well, it is a privilege today to welcome to the program author and speaker Phoenix Hayes. She and Frank Turek have a brand new book out called the War on Reality. And, here's a picture of the book. And in this book they answer lots and lots of questions. Questions about, truth and, fantasy about what we are facing in our world today. As the world seemingly goes crazy. we have a problem in America where we can't Tell the difference between good and evil. That's a problem in the world. But we voted this past Tuesday, we voted for that which sounds good and it truly is evil in my estimation. And, we said, hey, we want to follow baal, and if you sow the wind, you're going to reap the whirlwind. We know that this isn't going to go well. We know that things go well when we walk with God. Things don't go well when we don't. But it's a, privilege to welcome Phoenix Hayes to the program. So, Phoenix, thank you so much for coming on today.
Phoenix Hayes Shares Her Background and Journey to America and Faith
Speaker C Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve I feel like I'm talking to Olivia Newton Jon.
Speaker C Close. Different country, but very close.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, you sound a lot like her. Okay, so, Phoenix, for our listeners who may not be familiar with you, give us a little bit about your background and, how you came to know Frank and do this and wrote this book with him.
Speaker C Yeah, well, I suppose the first thing people will pick up on is the accent, so. I was born and raised in NewSong Zealand and did not have America on my radar at all. But God had other plans. And, you know, funnily enough, after I think I had finished high school, I went over to Europe and thinking that I would have my grand adventure before going on to university. And. And I did. But God placed me just outside the American Air Force base in Ramstein, where I met Americans for the first time and attended an American church. And I just fell in love with the American people. Not that I had any negative feeling toward them. I was very neutral. and I. But I just adored the way, the American culture represented among this, you know, microcosm of patriots, because most of them are military, and of course, they were mostly Christian, were just so proud of their country, prepared to fight, prepared to celebrate, prepared to be upfront and honest. There was none of this polite. And I don't mean that they were rude, but, in. In NewSong Zealand and the UK you tend to just sort of mutter your feelings about things privately. But I just. That was never me anyway. I just fell in love with this people. And I thought, lord, I take me there. I want to go there. I want to understand this country better, to see how it created these kinds of members of this society.
Phoenix Hayes's Spiritual Journey and Transition into Apologetics and Book Writing
And my goodness, what a long way we've come since then, when, now you just meet people who have such disdain for their own country, and yet they've never stepped outside of it. So that's what brought me to America. I Ended up coming here after college. I met my husband, and the rest is history, really.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix. When did you come to know Christ in a real way?
Speaker C I was blessed that I was raised in a Christian home in NewSong Zealand. Even though it, it's a very. I compare it to the Pacific Northwest of America. It's very liberal, very socialistic leaning. But the beauty of that was I came from, an environment where people didn't claim the name of Christ unless they really wanted it, unless they really meant it. And it also meant that I was being pressed, but with objections very early on. So I was able to ask my parents challenging questions. Well, why do we believe this and why do we do that? And they, although certainly not trained in apologetics, were able to give me enough of an answer that sort of satisfied an inquisitive teenager. So between that and by God's complete mercy, he just made himself very real to me at a young age that I can take no credit for. And, and so. So really a lifelong Christian, but it wasn't until I discovered apologetics maybe six years ago through, you know, scrolling through YouTube and things like that, where I realized, oh, this is what I meant to do. And that's where I connected with Frank. He at the time needed a part time research assistant and a copywriter. So I applied and got it. And from there again, I say, the rest is history. I ended up being the creative director for three, while I was also in seminary. And I pitched this book idea to Frank. He loved it.
The Book 'The War on Reality' Critiques Societal Issues like Gender Ideology and Medical Practices
And now we're holding it in our hands. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah. Well, the book is called the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates Lies. very straightforward. That's exactly where we're living today. We have a world that celebrates lies. We have candidates in America who pretend, that gender is fluid. they won't answer, you know, on the, on the left, they won't even answer the question, what is a woman? I mentioned in a sermon just, last week, the WNBA Women's National Basketball association doesn't even know what a woman is. But it's just, it's overrun with LGBTQ ideology. So, the T is in that, that acronym. And so you gotta, you gotta hang with the team. So it's filled with lesbians. I talked to a former WNBA player. I said, how many lesbians are in the wnba? She said, you know, more than half are lesbians. And so if you're a lesbian, you can't go against the trans community, because that's kind of, you got to be in lockstep there. And so they can't even divine, define the word women,
Pastor Jeff Schreve which is just mind blowing. you have the medical community that they need to read this book. They're part of the war on reality because they want to make money on, changing kids, gender. it's just insanity. So, Phoenix, let's get into the book.
The Book's Opening: A Personal Account of Tragedy and Societal Disdain for Truth
what is reality and why does it matter? The book begins with Frank telling a firsthand account of being there with Charlie when he was murdered. it's hard to read that without tears streaming down your face because you think about how what a great man Charlie Kirk was, made such an impact in his short life. And, for somebody to do what he did and then for Frank to be there and seeing Charlie's life just, you know, bleed out on his, in his lap. hard to, just fathom that. And we have people today, as I mentioned to you, Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan were on a podcast just yesterday, laughing about that. And you say, wait a minute, is this the party of love and tolerance? And, they're laughing about Charlie Kirk getting murdered. give me your thoughts on, how the book opens.
Speaker C Yeah, so, of course.
Dedication to Charlie Kirk and the Book's Approach to Heavy Topics with Personal Relatability
So the book was 70% done before that awful day last September. and really the introduction was going to be nothing more than. We don't like introductions. Let's just jump straight to chapter one. That was Frank's attitude toward it. So that got thrown out when this event happened. Of course I knew that Frank was in the area. I had no idea that he was right there next to Charlie when it happened, when I received word, because Frank, of course, he had his cell phone taken from him, from the police because they, I mean, he was out of communication. But I remember thinking immediately, we have to dedicate this book to Charlie. I can't think of anybody who has put more on the line when it comes to not only defending what is true, what is real, what is good, but also the source of that truth and that goodness being God, of course. And it cost him everything. And so we absolutely wanted to dedicate it to him. So that opening the whole book, as you know, has to cover some pretty heavy topics, not only from an emotional perspective, but like a cognitive one. We're going into some deep theology and philosophy to explain how we got here. And we do it as light heartedly as possible. We, we really avoid using unnecessary academic terms and things like that. But these are still big concepts. So it made perfect sense to take something very personal and Relational to open the book with, because that's the whole point of this. It's not just to be correct about God and the world. It's to be able to reach people and help them be in alignment with what is actually true and same for ourselves.
Processing Grief and the Impact of Loss on a Wider Community After Charlie Kirk's Death
So to demonstrate that that's going to cost you something. It certainly cost Charlie something. And we're not always going to do it perfectly, but we do it anyway. We do our best. And, just to highlight that. That moment for Frank especially. And. But what was so interesting is it wasn't just a chapter about Frank's experience, because everyone I spoke to, myself included, I felt such a weight for weeks after this event. And I didn't have a personal relationship with Charlie. I had the privilege of meeting him once, shook his hand, exchanged a few words, and that was it. But it wasn't just me. I found myself talking to other Christians, and they felt the same way. And it was a question of, why am I feeling this heaviness from this stranger that's been taken? And so the chapter allowed us to process it a little bit. Like, what did it mean for the millions of people who did know him personally and yet felt this heavy weight at his loss?
The Book's Impact and Discussion on Societal Inability to Process Moral Truth
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, it grips you right at the start because that is a great way to start a book. and to have one of the authors. I know you did probably the lion's share of the work on the book, but to have one of the authors that was actually there, just puts it in a new perspective. And, Charlie had a big impact, and the book is going to have a big impact. You know, I love the fact that, you guys have tackled these subjects. Phoenix. I always think about, Romans 1, you know, when you say no to God, we don't want to follow you. Even though they knew about God, they did not regard equality or they did not want to follow him, they didn't want to acknowledge God. So God gives people over like that to a depraved mind, first to sexual immorality, then to homosexual immorality, and then to a depraved mind, a mind that no longer functions. Okay, so when I think about society, and we're coming up on a break, so we may have to pick this up, the other side. But when I think about society and the issues that you deal with in this book, lots of times, just like you saw with Charlie, you see with Frank, when they're on college campuses, you're talking to people that. That cannot process moral truth. They can't process reality. share a little bit about that. We just have a minute before break.
Discouragement in Apologetics and Evangelism When Facing Depraved Minds and the Need for Prayer
Speaker C Yeah. That I would say we are there. And it is the most discouraging aspect of doing evangelism and apologetics work because we've been equipped with the truth. If you have been trained in apologetics, you have dedicated years to being able to deliver sound argument, sound reasonable explanations for why we believe what we believe. And yet when you meet a depraved mind and you never know, you give everyone the benefit of the doubt because you're just praying that there is enough softness there that the Holy Spirit will do his work.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah.
Speaker C You feel as though. Sorry,
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix. I'm sorry. I, want you to pick up that thought when we come back. You're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here talking to Phoenix Hayes. The book is the War on Reality. We'll be right back.
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Theological Basis for a Reprobate Mind and Interacting with Those Who Reject Moral Reality
This is Real Truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Welcome back to the program. I'm talking to Phoenix Hayes. She is the author along with Frank Turek, the brand new book the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates lies. Great title and subtitle. We were talking, right at the break about this situation, where God gives a people over to a reprobate depraved mind. It says, that the people exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Basically what the book talks about and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever. And it says, goes on to say, just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved reprobate mind to do those things which are not proper. Okay, so Phoenix, we said, you know, when you're on college campuses and the work that Frank does and his ministry does, as you're a part of that, you're trained to answer these questions logically, historically, scripturally, and bring everything to bear in defending the faith. And these people that you're talking to, just as many have seen Charlie Kirk do that, they don't have a grasp of moral reality. They want to make up their own reality. So how do you, or how do we, interact in that kind of environment?
Speaker C Yeah, so as I was saying, when you've been trained to not get emotional, understand that the person you're speaking to does not regard scripture as reliable or authoritative.
Leaning on Reasoning and Prayer When Facing Minds Enmeshed in Lies and Spiritual Battles
It means you need to lean back on. Okay, let's use basic reasoning skills and we'll try and get them there to then believing what the Bible says and things like that. But when you're talking to someone who is so enmeshed in lies that they've given up their ability to reason and apply logic, you feel as though your last weapon has been taken away. And it can be very discouraging. You just like, okay, I, don't know how to reach you other than the Holy Spirit performing a miracle. And at that point it really is about prayer. So of course we approach every conversation as though this is someone who's come here in good faith, who genuinely wants answers and is going to listen. And they don't need to agree, but they have the ability still to at least consider your points. You go in with that hope every time. And if it doesn't work out that way, each time you do, you've done the best you can. And ultimately no one gets saved without the Holy Spirit doing this work anyway,
Pastor Jeff Schreve right? Well, it is a major concern. You know, we talk a lot about in America, talk a lot about mental health issues. And I really think that, you know, the medical community is not going to talk about demonic possession.
Examining the War on the Mind: Deception, Mental Health, and Spiritual Oppression
But you see, especially with women, you see these women that are just red faced and they're so adamant about this, that and the other, whatever the liberal cause is, things are not rational. And you say there's got to be more to it than just, they're ticked off about a lie they believe. I think the devil is involved in this and all the drugs that people are taking today to combat depression and this and that and the other. you guys probably see that a lot on college campuses,
Speaker C right? I don't have the pleasure of traveling with. To the college campuses so much as, of course, Frank does. But, yes, we certainly see it. In fact, we dedicated a whole chapter to this very issue. We call it the War on the Mind. And in it, we tackle it from three different angles by following one, deception. Two, mental health, because that certainly is a component. And then third, the spiritual oppression piece. And honestly, the three go hand in hand. And our error is when we deny one or the other and lean too far into the medical and just, you know, want to prescribe something for everything or the other, where everything is demonic and they don't seek medical attention if there is honestly a chemical imbalance going on that's making them vulnerable to that spiritual influence.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right. you see people like, the lady that strangled her children. You have four children. I mean, it's so foreign to a normal person's mind that you would do that to your own children.
Demonic Influence and Societal Choices: Examining Extreme Actions and Political Ideologies
I've stated that, you know, people, oh, ah, she's mentally ill. It's like, that's demonic. she might have some other things going on, but the demons are rejoicing in what that lady is doing.
Speaker C Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve So it is a. And we're seeing it younger and younger, in these younger people. I mean, just the vote on Tuesday, people voting for socialism and candidates that are Islamic and socialistic.
Speaker C and funded by terrorist groups.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, I mean,
Speaker C certainly funded.
Pastor Jeff Schreve You know, I had, saw this, these Jewish people wearing T shirts that says Jews for El Sayed. it's like that guy hates you. And, he's part of the Islamic regime that wants to, wipe out Jews. you know, he won't say that, but it's obvious that's where he's coming from. And to wear a T shirt.
The Book's Structure: Defining Reality, Challenging Subjectivity, and Living Authentically
I had shared in a sermon, Phoenix, just Sunday. I said there was a group during Hitler's, rise to power that was basically Jews for Hitler. that didn't last very long, because as soon as they voted him into power, he voted them into the concentration camps. okay, so the book is. Is predicated on all these questions. What is reality and why does it matter? Part one, part two. Why can't I make my own reality? That's kind of where we're living today. Kids want to make their own reality. I want to be what I want to be. If I say I'm a girl, I'm a girl. If I say I'm this, I'm that. and then how can I live according to reality? So you kind of sum it up in part three. This is. This is the truth. Give me your, take on maybe, some really key chapters as you put this book together. The ones that really hit, hard for you personally.
Distinguishing Reality from Truth and the Importance of Precise Language in Discipleship
Speaker C I suppose. Really, the chapters that were the most interesting for Frank and I were in section three, where we're really getting down to the specifics. The war on information, the war on the mind, the war on politics, the war on the family, things like that. But we kept thinking of counter objections to, well, wait a second. What do we even mean by reality? What's the difference between reality and truth? What's the difference between truth and experience and perspective and belief? So it forced us to peel the layers back and establish that foundation in part one. And then, we add more clarification in part two. But I guess the first thing that I just wish everyone could. I think we understand this intuitively, but we're not using the language appropriately. And then when we don't use the language correctly, we get confused. Truth and reality are not synonymous. Truth is the language we use to describe reality. So this is how we know if something is true, an error or a lie, by comparing it to what is real.
Belief vs. Truth: Understanding Personal Experience and Maintaining Humility About Limited Perspectives
Right,
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right.
Speaker C Belief, is not necessarily truth. It is a conclusion you've made about reality. So when we use expressions like, well, that's her reality. People need to bear in mind that we don't really mean that, though. There is no your reality, my reality, there's certainly your experience of reality. And because each of us, none of us have omniscience, each of us are trapped within our own bodies. Bodies. And can only interact with the world and people as we are limited to do. It does mean that we are going to have our own slightly skewed perspective on reality. But we need to maintain that humility, knowing that because we're not God, we don't see all, know all. We do, need to rely on our senses. We need to rely on other people's experiences of reality and pull that all together to establish our best picture of what's true and real. So when people start talking about this, well, this is her reality, as though that justifies their belief. We need to get part of the pun. We need to get real here and say, okay, but their perspective is wrong. And that's not a critique of their value or their intelligence. It's just we all need to be a bit more humble about the fact that we're limited. And experience measures and experience and perspective will certainly skew, for better or worse, how you interact with reality, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to adjust to, prop up your belief about what reality is. This goes particularly for the transgender activists. There's no denying that it's real in your mind that you are, say, a man trapped in a woman's body.
Addressing Transgender Activism and the Clash Between Personal Beliefs and Objective Reality
However, you are wrong about that belief. Right. And the world does not need to accommodate reality, as in bathrooms and women's sports teams, to make you feel more comfortable. So that's one example of many. But, to. To. I really liked your question about which of the issues really, really, really, struck me the most. I would say, well, two, two chapters. One is the one on oppression, Cultural Marxism, because it's just everywhere it seems to be. It's the concept that you are inherently evil, shall we say, because of your skin color, your economic status, your.
Critique of Cultural Marxism and its Anti-Biblical Tenets Regarding Identity and Equality
Pastor Jeff Schreve Oh, she froze.
Speaker C While those who have different ones need, to be raised up. And it just, it's. It's completely anti biblical. We don't measure the worth or the voice or the truth of someone according to which identity group they belong to.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, you know, Phoenix, I've always said this. when you, when you start talking about all this stuff with race, you know, Martin Luther King's dream was really good. My, four children will be judged not on the color of their skin, the content of their. But the content of their character. Well, we've flipped that on its head. Everything's about the color of somebody's skin. And, that is just. That is just wrong. And so, you know, the Bible doesn't, doesn't pit people against each other like that. one of the things you bring up, you talk about, Marxism.
Distinguishing Marxism as Theory from Communism as Implemented System
You say there's a difference between Marxism and communism. Explain to us the difference between those two.
Speaker C Yeah, I guess the simplest explanation would be Marxism is the theory. It's the conversation that the academics have in their ivory towers about how they think the world is and what they think the problem is and what they think the solution is. Communism is all those terrible ideas implemented into an economic and political system.
Marxism's Evolution: From Economic Collectivism to Cultural Power Dynamics
So it's. We sort of talk about people who. Philosophers have the luxury of ideas, whereas politicians actually have to implement them and test them out. And communism is the failed result of Marxism again and again. And now, Marxism has shifted slightly. So it's taken those same ideas about. Basically the ultimate problem with humanity is we are not living as a collective, we're living as individuals. And that makes us unhappy and makes us feel oppressed. And really the solution is to abandon all sense of individuality and private property. Even going so far as rejecting the concept of one spouse for life because that would be property, it would be exclusionary that no one else can sleep with your, your spouse. Things like that, same thing with your children. And making everything just one collective. And by doing so we'll all be happier, we'll all be richer, healthier, stronger, and live in a utopia. But of course this idea completely denies sin. It denies the reality of how people actually operate.
The War on Reality: Potential Reception by a Fair-Minded Leftist and Bill Maher's Perspective
And it failed. Well now they've taken that same approach, taken the emphasis less off economics and applied it more to cultural power. So those who it's not about whoever has the most money that is evil. It's whoever has the most cultural influence, the most cultural power, which in their view is typically the white middle class Christian man, which I would argue is not true at all anymore. But that's the idea. And they need to seize that power so that they can then influence media, academia, politics, law. And that's what they've been doing.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Phoenix, let me ask you this. So the war on reality. if I'm a leftist and I read this book, where am I, am I going to just disagree with every page? Am I going to, let's say, and I don't know if these people exist. I'm a fair minded leftist. I am totally into the liberal camp, but I'm not just, I think Bill Maher, to a certain extent he's a leftist, but he hasn't left his brains at the door.
Speaker C yeah, in fact I think we quote him in the book. So I think he'd agree with a lot of our commentary.
Leftist Agreement with Conclusions but Disagreement with Methods: Simplifying Views and Maintaining Lightness
Pastor Jeff Schreve So where do you think a, fair minded leftist would, would balk at what you're saying? What, what specific things? When you start talking about truth is from what, from God?
Speaker C Yeah, that's an interesting question. Is the leftist, do they think they're a Christian because there's plenty of those, or are they, you know, in denial of any ultimate authority? I think. Hm. Someone who was a fair minded. I'm trying to rephrase what, what you asked. Okay. A fit. A fair minded leftist I think would agree with a lot of the conclusions. They wouldn't necessarily agree with how we got to those conclusions because we're basing it on our understanding of the world according to how God has explained it to us.
Right.
Speaker C But they may still, I would expect them to still agree with the conclusion, if not the method of how we got there, the critique. They may have is when we have to oversimplify their views. And I never, like. No one likes to straw man someone's view represented as weaker than what it is, but sometimes you almost have to. And it's not the desire to make it appear more. More foolish than it is, but to just. That sometimes happens when you have to simplify and condense a, view that could take up volumes of books into something very, very simple. And also because it's so heavy, we try and make fun. We try and keep it light. Yeah. So I could.
Book Recommendation and Call to Action for 'The War on Reality'
I would. I think that would be a fair critique if someone who holds those views says, well, that's not entirely what we believe. I, I understand that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Let me break in. We're talking to, Phoenix Hayes, the book the War on Reality. If you have a question or comment, we'd love to hear from you. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. Give me a call and let's talk.
The Urgency of 'The War on Reality': A Resource for Individuals, Families, and Churches
If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email Pastor JeffRomhisheart. Now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff. Here we're talking to Phoenix Hayes. She and Frank Turek, have written the brand new book the War on Recovering Truth in a World that Celebrates Lies. I can't recommend this book enough because it just hits exactly where we're living today, the society in which we're living today, the America that we have today. I, would think that it would be a, great read for a high school student, for parents that are homeschooling. say, hey, we're going to go through this book together. I would think it would be a good book for a church staff to go through together. Hey, we're just going to tackle a chapter at a time. 16 chapters in the book. so part one, what is reality and why does it matter? Part two, why can't I make my own reality big issue today? And part three, how can I live according to reality?
Critique of Liberal Arts and Marxism: The Failure to Define Basic Concepts and Embrace Flawed Ideologies
that is important to live according to reality. You know, Phoenix, one of the things that you see in, institutions of higher learning in colleges and universities, you, have all these liberal arts professors that m. You know, I'm in charge of women's studies. I can't define the word woman. you know, that kind of, gobbledygook does not work in the math department. does not work in the engineering department. It should not work in the medical department because the Human body is what the human body is, and you're performing surgery, you can't make it up as you go because you want this to be connected to that, out of your mind. But when it comes to ideas, as you talk about ideas, you got guys that just make all this stuff up and they never have to necessarily defend it. They just throw it out there. Ah, so Marxism is a good example. Marxism is this idea that fails horribly every time it is implemented, yet people keep embracing it. so when you deal with that in your book, why do you think that is? Why are people so, just to be blunt, so stupid as to think, well, now, this time it'll work?
Speaker C Yeah, that's such a great question. The reason is because Marxism is a religion. It's a godless religion, and they know it is.
Marxism as a Godless Religion: Its Worldview, Faith Element, and Repeated Failures
It meets the definition that the state holds. It's why humanism is classed as a religion even though it denies the existence of God. Marxism also does, however, if it were categorized that way, they wouldn't be allowed to teach it in public schools. So those who advocate for it have resisted that label precisely because it would limit their influence. But this is not just a theory of how the world works. It's an all encompassing worldview, whether those who follow it would understand that or fully acknowledge that or not. And with any worldview, there's an element of faith. And that is why they are so convinced that this truly is the explanation for why the world is unfair and unjust and there are problems and they truly believe that this is the solution. And they are so committed to that belief that every time it fails, the answer can't be because the system or their idea has failed. It's because the, implementation was wrong.
The Cyclical Nature of Failed Ideologies and Listener Call-In
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, great answer to that. they keep rolling it back out. It fails every time because it's just a failed ideology. Well, we're going to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. If you have a question for Phoenix, we'd love to hear from you. And we have, Mona on the line from Kentucky. Mona, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Hi. Good morning.
A Christian Counselor's Struggle Against Indoctrination and Ethical Restrictions
Good
Pastor Jeff Schreve morning.
Caroline I listen to Pastor Jeff all the time, but I've also listened to Phoenix and Frank talk about their book, on their channel, on the Internet. And I, am a counselor, licensed counselor, and a professor who teaches people to become counselors. And I'm a Christian in a secular world. And I am confined by ethics. And I, wonder if you have any suggestions Phoenix for me, because it's really like pushing water Uphill, it becomes very exhausting, to continue to fight, against the torrent of water, from our public education system, that has indoctrinated our children and, the evil of this worldview that is just. I mean, it's like an inkblot just taking over the white. Whiteness of the paper. So any suggestions for me, because I have such restrictions ethically, it becomes frustrating and disheartening.
Encouragement for Christian Counselors: Recognizing Spiritual Warfare and Asking Questions
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah, that would be very hard. Phoenix, any encouragement for Mona?
Speaker C Yeah, the encouragement would be. I mean, I get it. It is. It's so disheartening. my encouragement would be to remember that you are not fighting against reasonable people anymore. that's not to degrade them. You are fighting against spiritual powers at work. And recognizing that, in a sense, takes some of that personal pressure off because you realize this isn't. We're at a point where there is. It isn't about what do I do? Because it's not the physical. It's a spiritual battle we're up against. Now, that doesn't mean do nothing, be faithful. Now, you're also in a very awkward position because this is your livelihood. How do you hold on and defend truth without, losing your income and providing for your family, things like that? I think one of the best ways, although unfortunately, those who don't have the truth for find even this too aggressive. But I was going to say simply asking questions. Well, why are we teaching it this way? What evidence is this? Based on what? What results have we seen from this? the question comes off as less aggressive. Although, unfortunately, even today I've discovered that people get very worked up by simply being asked questions.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yes.
Speaker C And, that's why you just get disheartened, because you're like, well, at that point, what have we got left? I'm not going to yell at you and use violence and. But if I can't even pose a question
Pastor Jeff Schreve right
The Cost of Truth and the Importance of Responding Gracefully Amidst Opposition
Speaker C to you and you're offended, where do we go from here? I'm sorry. That wasn't very encouraging.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Well, but, but it's true. It's true. And, you know, as we began the program, talking about Charlie Kirk, Charlie Kirk, you know, hey, prove me wrong. Ask me anything. That kind of thing. they shot him for it. And so, as Frank writes in the first chapter of the book, when you can't have an argument anymore, then you result in. You defer to violence, and I'm going to shut you up and that kind of thing. Well, I appreciate it, Mona, and appreciate what you do because, that is the Front lines. And it's very, very difficult, with what you do. So hang in there. As Phoenix said, it is a spiritual battle, so put on the full armor of God every day as you go to work and, stand up for the truth.
Listener Encouragement and Scriptural Reflection on Healing and Truth
Well, we have our friend Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Well, thank you. And I have to tell you, I have written underneath your name real news, not fake news. That's what I tell people to turn on to you. This happened on Wednesday with the elections, how they turned out and all. And I was listening to you. And at the same time, you know how the Lord speaks the word to you? He said to me, balm of Gilead. And I started looking up verse, Balm and Gilead. Okay. And, the scripture that really hit me was Jeremiah. let's see. Wait. Okay. I'm sorry. is there no bomb in Gilead? Is there no physician there? So why has the healing of my dear people not come about. Then I went to nine, and it says here, and it's just exactly what the conversation is going on here.
The Power of God's Word Against Deception and Flooding Enemies
They bent their tongues like their bows. Lies and not fathomless prevail in the land. For they proceed from one evil to another, and they do not take me into account. This is the Lord's declaration, and I'm going to end with this, because this is what he ended with me. Oh, I don't have the scripture, but, the last thing he said to me is, when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Lord raises up a standard, the power of His Word. And I thought, whoa, what a way to end that. You know, it's like His Word is going to, you know, bring the breakthrough.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Yeah. Amen to that. Well, thank you, Linda. I appreciate that. Appreciate your encouragement. We have Susan on the line from Virginia.
Unlocking Locked Mindsets: The Challenges of Reaching Indoctrinated Youth and Observing Interactions
Susan, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Hi. Thank you, Pastor Jazz. Hi, Phoenix. Question. I believe you meant. Hi. I believe you mentioned at the beginning of your segment that when Frank Tureg would speak on campus, and, the kids just weren't able to understand or relate, how successful has he been able to unlock. They get, break through these kids locked mindsets, because they are so. They're. They're conscious. Not conscious. Well, maybe some of that, too, but they're just unable to process what you're. What you're sharing.
Speaker C Yes. Yeah. In a way we'll never know because we don't. We don't get to often see the fruit that comes from the Seeds that we drop. Right? Which is one reason why please don't get discouraged. I should have said this, Demona, because we are dropping seeds of truth every time we speak them. whether or not we know they're taking root or not, we won't know, maybe until eternity. Often Frank knows that his.
Pastor Jeff Schreve M. I need some Internet trouble.
Speaker C And that's not because the people there in front of him don't matter. They do immensely. But when you're there in person, stepping up to the mic, you have something to lose if you are, if you concede. And these are young people who have been fully indoctrinated, stepping up, ready to fight, ready to debate Frank. And they're not going to necessarily concede the point. And he knows that. He doesn't expect them to. And they may not do so for a long while. We pray that they do. But it's the people who are on the fence observing the interaction. Which is another reason why it's so important for Christians to not lose their cool. Maintain your calm, be respectful, be graceful. Because it's not about the person necessarily in front of you. It's all the people watching who are going to take away and consider what you both discussed.
Pastor Jeff Schreve And that is not easy.
Responding with Grace and the Indefensibility of Certain Ideologies
It can really be difficult. But you're exactly right. I had Phoenix, somebody tell me early in my pastorate, they said, hey, if you get opposed in a meeting, a business meeting or whatever, and the person can be coming, just all wrong and accusing you of things and have a bad attitude, but it doesn't matter. The church is watching to see how you respond. And if you respond in kind to that person, they don't diminish them, they diminish you because they say, well, you shouldn't do that, you're the pastor, blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, and Charlie and Frank do a good job with that. they don't get red faced with people. But, there is an urgency. I, love how you said Phoenix. We share the word of God with people because the word doesn't return void. We may not see the work that God does, but I guarantee you those people are going back in their. The Lord can bring that to their mind. They're thinking through some of these positions that make no rational sense. I mean, they're indefensible. Transgenderism is indefensible.
Societal and Parental Failures Leading Children Astray in the Digital Age
It just makes no sense. So. Okay, I appreciate that, Susan. We have David on the line from North Carolina. David, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline Yeah, good morning. I feel like I'm out of My elements, because I'm not a psychologist or, or anything like that. But what I see as the Bible tells us we're supposed to raise our children and teach them the ways of the world and what to look for and what to be aware of and what to do and not do. And we as a society, each household, we failed. We're so bent on competing with our neighbors, with the house and the car and the Job and the 401 and the kids are getting lost in the shuffle and then they're trying to fend for themselves and they go to TikTok and they look at things that are totally unsatisfying and unrewarding because that's the only place they know to turn to because the parents and the families have failed them. That's my opinion.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Okay, thanks David.
Speaker C I agree.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Okay, so Phoenix, the breakdown of the family. How much does that play into the war on reality?
The Dissolution of Marriage and Family: Redefining Covenant and Purpose Beyond Emotions
Speaker C Well, we, we address it more from a ah, political and cultural perspective. The the dissolution of understanding what marriage really was created for. It's not simply, you know, an arrangement between two people who have emotions for one another. But unfortunately I think a lot of the church has accepted that definition of what marriage is. If you feel loved toward each other, you get married. Well, if you water it down to that, then why wouldn't you tolerate same sex marriage? M. Because hey, they have feelings for each other too. Why wouldn't you let them marry? But of course that's not the definition of marriage. It's a covenant. It's a lifelong promise and it's designed not only for our mutual pleasure, but for our sanctification. Marriage is hard and then if you are blessed to do so, it's also for procreation and stabilizing society. So we unpack all of that. That it's, it's about so much more than what I think Hollywood has reduced marriage and family to.
Concluding Thoughts on 'The War on Reality' and Encouragement for Listeners
Pastor Jeff Schreve Right. Very good. Well Phoenix, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate, appreciate your work on this, the war on reality, recovering truth in a world that celebrates lies. Let me encourage you to pick up a copy of this and Phoenix, it's been a wonderful hour with you. I appreciate you all that you do and ask God to bless you and continue to use you in great ways.
Speaker C Thank you so much for having me. It was a joy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve Good. Well go out today.
Final Encouragement: Shine for Christ, Share His Deeds, and Worship the Lord
We always talk about two words. Shine and share. Shine for Christ and share what great things the Lord has done for you. And guess what? God will use you as his witness. And, hey, make it a great weekend and be in church on Sunday to worship the Lord who is king of kings and Lord of Lords. God bless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve welcomes author Phoenix Hayes to discuss The War on Reality: Recovering Truth in a World That Celebrates Lies, her new book co-written with Frank Turek.
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