: Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now here's Pastor Jeff.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Monday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff here. Hope you had a great weekend. We had a wonderful weekend at First Baptist Texarkana. Wonderful day. Yesterday we saw six, how old, I think an eight or ten year old girl get baptized, 11 maybe, and then a 61 year old guy get baptized. And so, seeing a young person, seeing an older person trusting Christ and following the Lord in baptism, it was exciting. we finished up our series on the book of Numbers. I had done eight sermons out of numbers. Numbers would be a hard book to go through verse by verse because it's got a lot of, numbers in it, obviously why it's called numbers, a lot of censuses and names and things like that. But it's got some great, great Old Testament passages to teach us how, what to do in some instances, as Moses would constantly go to the Lord in prayer, that was his first, action when disaster would strike, what to do, what not to do. The people grumbled, griped and complained constant. And we ended up with, the discussion of this mysterious prophet, pagan prophet named Balaam. And so I enjoyed getting to study him and learn about him. Well, I want to talk to you today, about a host of things, but one of the things, is the power of preaching and what preaching is supposed to communicate. When I went to Southeastern Seminary in the summer of 1996, I took a summer semester class on, music in the church, hymns in the church, something like that. And I just Took whatever I could. I knew I needed to cram as much as I could get into, my time there in North Carolina. But, the fall semester I took a full load. And one of the classes I took was sermon delivery or sermon preparation. The preparation of sermons by Dr. Wayne McDill, who is a dear friend to this day. He taught me so much. It was a very difficult class, and it was a four hour class. Most seminary classes are three hours or even two hours. This was a four hour class and there was so much work involved in that class. Now, I thought I was pretty good at preparing Bible studies and messages and things like that. But, this kind of, rocked my world. It changed the way I viewed things and it really focused me on what does the text say? Because we need to have text driven preaching. And I learned about how to do the introduction of a sermon and how to come up with the points that are out of the text. Not reading into scripture, but reading out of the scripture. There's exegesis where the Scripture speaks to you. There's eisegesis, where you read into the text. You don't want to do that, and you don't want to put your cultural biases into the text. That's why we talk about being, a person who has a biblical worldview that's seeing the culture through the lens of scripture rather than seeing scripture through the lens of culture. We have a lot of people that do that today. They preach sermons and they're looking through the lens of culture. Well, the culture is rotten and godless. You can't look at scripture through the lens of culture. You look at culture through the lens of scripture. Now, the big famous sermon in the Bible is what we call the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew, chapter five, chapter six and chapter seven. And so Jesus talked about a host of subjects in the Sermon on the Mount. And it says this at the end, when Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at his teaching. For he was teaching them as one having authority and not as their scribes. The crowds were amazed. That's the Greek word. And it means to be astonished, to be amazed, to strike out of one's wits, to astound, to overwhelm someone. it can mean to strike with panic. it has a lot of different meanings, but it's translated, to astonish, to amaze. And, that's how Jesus taught. And he taught with authority, not as their scribes. The scribes all taught in footnotes. Well, Rabbi so and so says this, and Rabbi Gamaliel says that. And everything was footnoted. Jesus didn't footnote. He would say, thus says the Lord, he would, he would preach with authority. And the people said, hey, what is this? He teaches as one having authority. And we, when, when they went to arrest him in the Gospels, they didn't, they came back to the religious leaders and they said, they said, where is he? I thought you were going to arrest him. He said, we've never heard anybod speak like this. Well, I say all that to say this. Ed Young Jr. the pastor of Fellowship Church, in the Dallas area. He, I don't know if this was a sermon or a conference, but he drove on stage in a Rolls Royce and he made some statements that really struck a nerve in the hearts of many Bible believing pastors and got quite, quite the back and forth between different pastors and people in his church and others about this statement. So I want to play the statement and then I want to interact with it. But this was Ed Young. He's driving onto the platform in a Rolls Royce. It looked like it cost, I don't know, $500,000 or something. I'm somewhere just a beautiful, beautiful car. That just seems odd to bring that car, drive it out on stage. But this is what he had to say about it.

Speaker C: This Rolls Royce, it's a sweet ride, isn't it? Now some of you are saying, oh man, I can't believe you drove a Rolls Royce into church. Man, that's gimmicky. No, it's not. It's godly. Oh, that's trite. That's flippant. No, it's from Christ's playbook. If you ever go to church and you find yourself bored, blame the communicator, the pastor. Don't blame God. Yeah. For some reason we go to church and expect boredom. Just the opposite should be true. We are in. And this is going to mess you up. We are in the entertainment business. Entertainment's a good word. The word entertainment means to capture and hold someone's attention for an extended period of time. What did Jesus do? He captured and he held people's attention for an extended period of time. And he used illustrations and metaphors. Exhibit A, those are just a few. Exhibit B, those are just a little bit of it. So if you don't use illustrations, if you don't use metaphors, if you don't use visuals, you're not, being fully biblical in your communication. So we should welcome this. And I'm so happy for 35 years, Fellowship Church is a, creative church because.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: So he goes on to talk about their creativity and, some of the things he says. first of all, it is shocking to see a pastor drive a Rolls Royce, however much it costs. Like I said, I don't know how much it costs. I'm not good with car prices. But it was an extremely, fancy car, nice car. Rolls Royce, just by the name, you know, that it's, expensive. So I don't know if it was half a million dollars or more. Could have been more, I don't know. But, you're definitely not going to find that one on, on the used car lot. And so, he says, well, this is not gimmicky. It's godly. It's godly to drive a Rolls Royce onto the platform or use any other kind of visual aid. I've used visual aids. but here's the thing. And then he says, that's godly. Well, Ed Young Jr. Is really known for doing stuff like that. That's, Most people would arch an eyebrow and say that. That doesn't seem right. why are you doing that? This isn't a circus. This isn't, you know, the Tonight show, or whatever they call. I guess they still call it the Tonight Show. That's what they used to call it, with Jimmy Fallon. This isn't that. This is. We're meeting to hear from God. We're meeting to worship God, and we're going to hear from God. Thus says the Lord. And, we're going to communicate. what does Paul say to Timothy, the last chapter he ever wrote? Timothy, I solemnly charge you, preach the word, Be ready in season and out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. And so we are to do that. And, reproving is not a fun thing for the listener. Rebuking is not a fun thing for the listener. Now, he likes to be encouraged. But the three things that preaching does is reprove and rebuke and then exhort. And so it, cuts to bleed before it cuts to bless. It's the word of God. It's the sword of the spirit. the powerful sword of the spirit. So entertainment. We're in the entertainment business. He says, entertainment is not a bad word. It's a good word. It's to hold people's attention. And he goes on to, say, I cut the clip kind of short. But he quotes from, Matthew, the end of the Sermon on The mount he quotes from Matthew chapter seven. And he uses that word, he said, you know, when Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed. And he said because Jesus held their attention. Now we said that that word amazed, is the Greek word, let me get it again. Ekplesso, E K P L E S S O ekplesso, which means, as I said, to strike out of one's wits, to astound, to amaze, to overwhelm. That's not the, as entertaining. To entertain people. You know, you go to a comedy shop to be entertained. You go to a show, on Broadway to be entertained. hey, I'm going to, you know, just be amused and entertained for two hours. That's not what church is. and to confuse those two, we're in the entertainment business. that's just not, that's not a proper depiction, of what Jesus did. I talked to my friend Dr. Paige Patterson, theologian, Dr. Paige Patterson, who has taught preachers for decades how to preach and how to communicate the word of God. And he said, I told him about what the topic was today and wanted him to come on. He said he was unable to do it. But he said Jesus held people's attention by the force of what he said, not by the stupidity of what he did. And I really do think that it becomes gimmicky. You become a three ring circus

Caroline: when

Pastor Jeff Schreve: you start using all these props. Ah, I think it's fine to use ah, a prop within reason. I talked one time about Jon 15 about fruit, about producing some fruit, much fruit, more fruit. And it says that in Jon 15. And so I had a plate of three plates. One had a few grapes on it, one had more grapes on it, and one had an overflowing amount of grapes on it. And I said that's fruit. Jesus wants us not to produce a little fruit. Not even to produce some fruit. He wants us to produce much fruit. By this is your Father, glorified that you bear much fruit and so prove that to be my disciples. Well I think that is fine. I think that does drive home the point. But you know, Ed goes on to say, hey, we're all Rolls Royces, you know. And I guess I didn't listen to the whole sermon, but Ephesians 2:10. For we are his workmanship, his poima. We are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk, in them. Well we're a Rolls Royce. Okay, well we're a special creation of God, that's for sure. And God wants to use our lives, that's for sure. But I think we as preachers need to be really, really careful. As Paige Patterson mentioned, he said, read, read Matthew, chapter 23. He said, were the Pharisees, entertained by what Jesus said? They were cut to the quick by what he said. Woe to you, scribes. Pharisees, hypocrites. read Acts, chapter seven, Peter's, or Steven's sermon. Man, they were cut to the quick so much that they covered their ears and they rushed upon him and stoned him to death. Now he held their attention, but they weren't entertained. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas, and the founder of From His Heart Ministries. From His Heart is heard every weeknight at 6pm Central Time right here on American Family Radio. We're up against a break, but we'll be right back. Don't go away.

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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program, Pastor Jeff. Here we're talking about the job of a preacher, the job of a pastor. Second Timothy 4. In case you're not sure what your pastor should be doing, what his main job as the shepherd, the under shepherd of the church. He is to lead the sheep. He is to feed the sheep. He is to care for the sheep. Paul said to Timothy, I solemnly charge you. 2 Timothy 4, beginning in verse 1, I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead. And by his appearing and his kingdom, I mean, he sets the stage. Okay, I'm solemnly charging you, and God is my witness. And you're going to have to stand before God one day, Timothy, and so will all of us, and especially pastors. Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such you shall incur a stricter judgment. James, chapter three, verse one. So he solemnly charged him, charges him, preach the word, be ready in season and out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. So we talked about, what is being talked about quite a bit by people on the X platform, especially Christians and pastors on the X platform. Pushing back. I think it was protestia that showed this, clip from, Ed Young Jr. At Fellowship Church there in Grapevine. And, he's trying to say, hey, putting a Rolls Royce on stage is not gimmicky, it's godly. And if you're not using, you know, props in your sermons and illustrations and metaphors that you're not being godly, you're not preaching like Jesus would preach. Well, I agree that we need to use illustrations. Jesus used illustrations. He used common things that everybody could relate to. he would, consider the lilies. And no doubt he pointed to the lilies there, and they're right there. And so, yeah, we take advantage of those things. But, to talk about, some of these over the top gimmicky things and presenting them as godly and then saying, we're in the entertainment business. And then when he got pushback, well, he doubled down. This was his follow up to that.

Speaker E: You might be wondering, where did you get all of these supercars? They're mine. I have a garage full. No, I'm just kidding. 25 years ago, I began doing teachings using cars as metaphors. And the reason I started doing it was I met a guy by mistake. So we developed this friendship. He provided us, all of these cars. He's so generous and started coming to Fellowship Church. And I happened to be with him the day, five years after we met, where he said, jesus, you take the wheel of my life as a Christian and as a pastor, as a communicator, we should be creative we should be entertaining and engaging. Those aren't bad words. The Greek term is expleso. It was used in the NewSong Testament to describe Christ's teaching. Again, people were astonished. They were engaged. They were entertained. Jesus didn't entertain just to entertain. He entertained for an end game in mind that was for someone to have a life transformation. So if you have a problem with creativity, you got a problem with God. Obviously, creativity is not the sole purpose of our church or the way I communicate, but it's definitely an aspect and a byproduct when you share the gospel of Jesus.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so the, the number one thing for Christians and the number one thing for pastors, and what you're going to be evaluated on by God, Faithfulness. It is required of stewards. First Corinthians 4, 2. Moreover, it is required of stewards of managers. We don't own anything. We're stewards. The, master owns everything. The earth is the Lord's and all it contains. It is required of stewards that a man be found faithful. It's not required that a man be found creative. It's not required that a man be found ingenious. Those things aren't bad. It's not bad to be creative. But what the Lord is going to look at more than anything is faithfulness. Were you faithful to deliver my word? Were you faithful to preach the Word? Were you faithful to speak the truth in love? Now, I will say this about Ed Young. I mean, he's way different from the way I am. Not that his way is wrong and my way is right. I just don't track with that. my training is more along the lines of Adrian Rogers and, you know, Jon MacArthur. Very instrumental in, you know, in helping me grow in my Christian life. Well, those guys were not gimmicky. They were not boring, but they were not gimmicky. And it was the force of what they said, not to quote Paige Patterson, not the stupidity of what they did. And they wouldn't do anything that would cheapen the pulpit and turn it into something that would be, along the lines of slapstick or, you know, it becomes the Tonight show. And I'm Jimmy Fallon, and I'm just trying to entertain you. Now. I think sermons ought to be, engaging. I've said for years. I mean, it is no doubt a sin to take the most exciting book in the world and bore people to tears with it. the Bible is the word of the living God. we should be on the edge of our seat as we study the Word of God and see what God has in store for us. And Jon R.W. stott wrote the book between Two Worlds. And we have to take. The job of the preacher is to take the text of the biblical biblical world and the times of the biblical world and bridge them into, our world today. So it's not just a history lesson, it is applied. Well, what does that mean to you and to me today? This is what happened so many years ago. I'm preaching about Balaam. Balaam is giving his, oracles in 1406 B.C. but it's like, what does that have to do with us today? Because the Bible speaks to us today. The Bible is as fresh as this morning's newspaper. It has, principles that apply to our lives today. God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living, as Jesus said. When, the Sadducees, who didn't believe in the resurrection asked him that crazy question about the woman who was married and then her husband dies, and then the brother marries her according to the kinsman Redeemer. And then he dies and another brother, another brother in the resurrection, whose husband will be, who will be her husband? Whose wife will she be? And Jesus said, you are mistaken. Not understanding the Scriptures or the power of God. God is not the God of the dead, he's the God of the living. I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He says to Moses at the burning bush, you know, the Sadducees, this is just an aside, but the Sadducees didn't believe in the resurrection because they only took the first five books of the Bible, the Law of Mo, and they said there is no resurrection in the law of Moses. And so Jesus went to the law of Moses. He went to Exodus, chapter three, one of the most famous passages, with the burning bush. And he says, did you miss this one? I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He's the God of the living, he's not the God of the dead. You are mistaken. And, boy, he left them dumbfounded. They had to pull their jaws up off the floor.

Caroline: Wow.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: How did we miss that? And so, you know, it's kind of funny when you think about them trying to trick Jesus and trap Jesus. This is, you know, it's like a two year old going to a debate with Elon Musk talking about, rocket science. You're not going to do very well, right? I mean, you and I have used this illustration. Ed would be proud. I'd use this illustration for years. I mean, we have a little teacup mind. And, you stand with your little teacup. And you look over the vastness of the Pacific Ocean. That's God's mind. Our mind is a teacup. And, you want God to explain himself. You know, put all this, your wisdom, your knowledge, your understanding. Put it in my teacup so I can understand what you can understand. Well, God's not able to do that. You're not going to be able to understand. I'm not going to be able to understand God. You know, Job asked God about all these whys. Why is this happening to me? And wanted answers, wanted to sit down with God. He is not a man, as I am. I wish there were an umpire between us. Was his cry. Somebody that could lay his hand upon us both. Somebody that understood God's position and my position. Well, he was asking in a roundabout way for Jesus, the God man. as much God as though he were not man at all. As much man as though he were not God at all. Somebody who could understand God's position because he's God. Somebody who could understand man's position because he's man, although not a sinner. And he's someone who can lay his hand upon us both. He is the mediator between us, both. But God doesn't explain himself. And if you read the book of Job, you're going to find that God doesn't explain himself. He just says, job, here I am. Who are you to ask me questions? You're not on my level, Job, so why don't you just trust me? God is a good God. He's compassionate and gracious. He's slow to anger and abounding in loving kindness and truth. He keeps loving kindness for thousands. He forgives iniquity, transgression and sin. Yet he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished. He's holy, holy, holy. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. So what is a preacher to do? He's to lead. He's to feed. He's to care for the sheep. And he is to preach the word. And he can do it creatively, that's fine. But I think there is a line that you don't want to cross between turning the, consecrated pulpit into something that just seems very common and silly and gimmicky and to come up with something that's a gimmick and saying, no, this isn't a gimmick. It's godly. And if you're not doing, similar things. You're not preaching as Jesus preached. Well, you need to elevate the word of God more than anything. And you need to tell people the truth. You need to speak the truth. In love, you pray, God help me to do this in a way that captures people's attention. There's nothing wrong with that. We do want to capture people's attention. One of the things I learned in my, sermon preparation class from Dr. McDill was how do you start a sermon, how do you transition from, the opening of the sermon to the body of the sermon and, hitting people where they live, where they hurt? We spent a lot of time on that. He talked about the need element. Not what do people need to hear, but what is the need in their life. What is the hurt in their life. If you speak to that hurt and say, early on in the message, this is how the message is going to speak to your fears. Because many of you are afraid. You're afraid with your health, you're afraid concerning your children, your grandchildren, you're afraid about your business, you're afraid about your finances, you're afraid about the future. And, this is how this passage deals with those fears. I remember preaching Isaiah 43, God's answer for your fears. And Isaiah 43 is a great passage of scripture dealing with fear. And the Lord clearly says, when you pass through the waters. Or he says, thus says the Lord, your creator, O Jacob, and he who formed you, O Israel, do not fear, for I have redeemed you, I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, nor will the flame burn you. And it dealt with fear. And so you hit people there. And they want to listen because they say, hey, I have fears in my life. This passage of scripture, this message the pastor is going to preach, it's going to speak to me about my fears, about my need. And so I'm all ears. I think that's important. And then you tell them what the scripture says, and then you sum it all up in a point of decision and application. You have to apply this to your life. And so that is a good thing. Being boring. You don't get points for being boring. It's a sin to be boring. As I said, you take the most exciting book in the world, the life changing book of the word of God, the book that is a lie is Living and active and sharper than any two edged sword. And you bore people to tears with it. Well, that's a terrible thing to do. And Ed Young, all the things we, people that maybe don't like him could say about him. One of the things, I mean, he's a good communicator. He's not boring. You listen to what he has to say. You might have qualms with what he has to say. Wait a minute, you're making these statements, they're not true. But he doesn't do it in a monotone, drab, boring way. And we as preachers need to constantly be working on our deliveries so that the message rings true into people's hearts and minds. Well, that caught my attention today and I just wanted to talk about that. And do just want to reiterate what Dr. Paige Patterson said. And I love Paige. And he's been run through the ringer. That guy's been accused of more things they didn't do than probably anybody I know. And Paige is like a, Timex watch. He takes a licking and keeps on ticking. God bless that guy. 80. I, think he's right at 84 years old, still going strong. But Jesus held people's attention by the force of what he said, not by the stupidity of what he did. And so we need to remember that. Yes. Did God had prophets do some strange things, to emphasize a point, but those were directly from the Lord. Do this. And I'm going to use this as an illustration. But the prophets weren't known as fools or buffoons or hucksters or leading a three ring circus. They weren't entertainers. They were the man of God. And we desperately need to get back to that. Well, when we hear the music, we know that we are coming up against a break. And when we come back to the from the break, I'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple. 858-98840. If you have a question or a comment, I'd love to hear from you. And you might push back on what I had to say. And you know, I don't know Ed. Personally I'm not against him by any stretch of the imagination. I don't agree with how he goes about things. but God has used him to lead many to faith in Christ. I say with the Lord. Hey, where Christ is proclaimed or with Paul, where Christ is proclaimed, I rejoice. but I think we do need to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and remember that faithfulness is key. We'll be right back after the break.

 : If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here. We're opening the phone lines. 888-589-8840. That's true. 8840. If you have a question or comment. We've been talking about, the need of the hour in preaching, and that is the job of a preacher, is to lead the sheep, feed the sheep with the word of God, and care for the sheep. Now, as the church grows, the preacher needs help and the pastor needs help, especially in the pastoral care aspect of it, because he is one guy. But as far as, as I learned in seminary from my preaching professor, Dr. Wayne McDill. Hey, guys, the most important part of your ministry and where you hit the most lives is on Sunday morning when you open the book and when you preach the word. So make sure you give that your, the required attention and don't shortchange the people on your study time, on your prayer time. Give them a fresh, hot meal that will, minister to their hearts, that will speak the truth in love. Well, we're going to the phone lines 888-589-8840. If you have a question or comment. As we, have been talking through these things, and we're not trying to throw Ed Young Jr under the bus, and, incidentally, he's not a junior. He's Ed Young. His dad is Edwin Young. They don't have the same exact name, but he's known as Ed Young Jr. He's Dr. Ed Young's son, oldest son, and, he's built a church megachurch, and the Lord has used him. he would be doing things in a way that I wouldn't track with. As I said, I would be more along the lines of, how did Adrian do it? How did Jon MacArthur do that? faithful guys. And I tend to think he is gimmicky. Although he says it's not gimmicky, it's godly. That's a matter of interpretation. But we have our friend, Lee on the line from Virginia. Lee, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: Hello, Pastor Jeff. Haven't talked to you in a while. I'd like to make a couple of statements.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, sir.

Caroline: Maybe one. They as, I'm like you. I like Adrian Rogers, he is one of my heroes. But, I think most pastors today. I agree with you. Our job or any pastor or any preacher job is to tell people the truth. People, pastors want to be loved. And Jesus said, if you, love me, you would follow my words. And if you know God, you would recognize me. If they hate me, they're going to hate you. And Jesus told the truth. He was hated. People wants to be loved today. They don't want to be, known for telling the truth.

Caroline: Yeah.

Caroline: And I got one more thing I'd like to say to you, and I'm not saying this in criticism. I'm 75 years old. When I was 48 years old, I had a pastor come to my church from a Baptist college in North Carolina. He said that they taught them, and this is the way he preached. They taught him three different views, different ways of interpreting the Bible and told him to pick the one that he liked the best. And he made state. He made statements like the book of Revelation shouldn't even be in the Bible. When Jesus. When Jesus was drove into the wilderness after he was baptized, where it says he was drove by the Spirit, that that spirit was the spirit of the devil that drove him into, And he also. And he also said that any baby was just as holy as Jesus himself. None of those were true.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: No. Well, they bring up. Good point, Lee. So Southwestern or Southeastern Seminary, where I went to seminary for the longest time, it was the most liberal of the Southern Baptist seminaries. But when the conservatives resurged, in the 80s, late 70s and early 80s, that seminary, hired Dr. Paige Patterson to be the president, and he cleaned house. And, they had conservatives that were teaching there. Yeah, I experienced some of that, in the churches that had had liberal seminary student pastors. And those guys were questioning the Trinity, and all sorts of things. But when I went there, it was solidly conservative. Dr. Wayne McDill, my preaching professor, he was a student, solid guy. And, Paige is a hero of mine. And so, yeah, things changed dramatically. But for a time there, it was terrible. And, praise God, it. It, shifted as the most, conservative. Now, I wouldn't say it's the most conservative today, but it was back then in 1996 when I was there. So God bless you, my brother. I always appreciate hearing from you. We have Micah on the line from Florida. Micah, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: Yeah, good morning, sir. I had a couple comments. One, there was a few years ago when there was a local church I think it was kind of a secret, friendly church anyways. And I was disturbed because, I got to tell you, I'm a superhero junkie. I love stupid heroes. I just love them. But I don't think they're appropriate on a Sunday morning because there's a lot of occult violence and a lot of questionable things that are in comic books and stupid heroes. So I don't think it was good to use those as some kind of role models up in the church. And I think there's enough idol worship in there anyways, because too many times I get asked the question, well, did you like the service? What that really translates to is because I have a lot of friends that are artists. So what that really translates to is, did you like the band? Listen, I'm not there to be entertained. I've told preachers to their face, if you're not scaring the H E double hockey sticks out of me, you're not doing your job. And the other thing I want to say is that, I have several different translations of the Bible. I use, you know, the esv, American, standard, whatever it is, and I have three or four different versions. And then I also have a one that's called the. The Action Bible. And I love that because it's basically the Bible in the form of a graphic novel, and not in any kind of a mocking way, but it's just pictures, putting pictures towards. Because I'm kind of a visual learner. I can pay more attention with pictures.

Caroline: Yeah.

Caroline: And so I like that. So. But that's not my primary Bible. I just kind of like to use that as a kind of like a supplement. Supplement.

Speaker E: Yes.

Caroline: But I just wanted to say, you know, I don't think that entertainment is wrong, but there's definitely a time and a place, because too many I can't stand soft messages. I have a hard time finding a church to go to these days because, like I said, if you're not scaring the crap out of me, you're not doing your job. I don't want to be pampered past the public gates.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. That's a good point, Micah. So the job of the pastor is to say, thus says the Lord, and, what the Lord has to say. I mean, you read in Revelation 2 and 3. So that was the last message that Jesus gave, verbatim to the different churches, the seven churches of Asia Minor. Well, five of those churches were told they needed to repent. only two were commended. Even the church in Ephesus, where the Apostle Paul Spent time there. Timothy was the pastor there. A solid, solid church. they were told, hey, I have this against you. You've left your first love, love. You need to repent and return, or else I'm going to come and take your lampstand from you. I'm going to shut the place down unless you return to your first love. And so I think that's an important, point to remember. So of the seven churches, five, were told they needed to repent. And we need to do what David said in Psalm 139. Search me, O God, and know my heart. Try me and know my anxious thoughts, and see if there be any hurtful way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. We need to constantly do that, as individuals and as a church that God show us if there's something we're doing that's wrong, if we're barking up the wrong tree, if we're spending a lot of time and energy and resources on something that's, not what you want for us, show us. And we need to change gears and we need to be, totally surrendered to the Lord. And we need to make sure that we are focused on the main thing. And if we're not loving, him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, whatever else we're doing, hey, we're missing that main thing. To fear God and to love God. Those are the two main things. And as Jesus said, the second great, commandment, love your neighbor as yourself and loving God, loving people. Those are the things that the church needs to be about. So God bless you, brother. Thanks for calling in. We have Kara on the line from Oklahoma. Kara, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: Yeah, thanks for taking my call. This topic has weighed on my heart for at least two decades. And, not necessarily as pastoring, but in the worship side because I'm a professional performer and when I lived in NewSong York, I was part of the worship team. But when I would get up and sing, I often struck with focusing my, my thoughts on the Lord rather than how I was sounding, how did I look on stage. And it has really made me not even want to sing in church, not even like just even in congregation because I want to keep my eyes focused on the Lord and not on me and wondering if people are noticing my voice and noticing me. And then several years ago I had a friend that, went to a mega church and she was commissioned to put a big, a big thing together for, for their service that day, a big showing and she asked me to come dance. And so, you know, I said yes and I went in.

Caroline: But it.

Caroline: It felt like I was just doing a big, giant show. It did not feel like I was worshiping at all. So I've really struggled with. What do I do with the talents that the Lord gave me when I'm struggling so much to make sure that it's on him and not on me.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Well, I think that's good, Kara, that you recognize that. And, you know, God has. He's gifted us in different ways. And, you know, he's gifted a number of people musically where I don't have that gift. And he wants you to use that. It's like the talents, you know, use this for his glory. But it.

Caroline: It.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: There is that tension when you're greatly gifted in a certain way. There is that tension that I need to make sure this is a surrendered, gift to the Lord. This isn't about me. It's about Him. It's using that for his glory. And so I think it's good that you sense that what you don't want to do is let the devil, steal that from you because you get too hung up in that. Well, I don't know if I'm doing this for me or for him, so I better just sit this one out. I would just continue to pray. God, I have this opportunity before me. I want this to glorify you. my friend, Doyle Dykes. He's been on the program many times. Ah, phenomenal. One of the best guitar players in the world. Fingerstyle guitar player. Well, he has such a humble spirit. And he just knows God gave me this gift, and I'm going to use it, as far and as wide as it can go for the glory of God. And when you sit down and talk to Doyle, he is just such a humble servant, and he's extremely talented. But it's not about him. It's always about, The Lord gave me this gift, and I want to share it and use it for his glory. So I appreciate the fact that you called in today, Kara, and I appreciate the fact that you are sensitive to that. And, I would just encourage you. As the scripture says in the book of Psalms, let all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you. And let those who love your salvation say continually, the Lord, be magnified. And so when you get those opportunities, Lord, this is for your glory, not for my glory. Let people see Jesus in me, and God will use you greatly in that. So God bless You. We have Becky on the line from Texas. Becky, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: Thank you, Pastor Jeff. First, I just want to tell you how much I enjoy listening to you every morning. I've never called in. I'm scared to talk on radio. But anyway, this topic really got to me this morning. I was thinking of those scriptures in Zechariah 4. 6, where it says, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord. And when, you know, you think about the church, and it's to be made pure and made clean by Christ. And I, when I listen to Ed Young occasionally, I've heard him on AFR in the mornings and stuff. And don't get me wrong, I loved his dad. And we're down in Houston. My mother is at the Second Baptist Church North Campus. And of course I'm sure everybody's heard about the lawsuits and all that kind of thing that went down. And the sad thing is, I mean, you look at his, Ed Young in, in Dallas, his salary is a million dollars annually, plus $240,000 for housing allowance and all that kind of stuff. Driving Rolls Royce using, planes, you know, they have use of church operated aircraft and relational things. I just think right now I'm in a women's Bible study at my mom's church and they have told us that they can no longer afford to pay for childcare for young mothers, you know, that want to come to this Bible study. And I was going to call today down there to the church to say, hey, I'll babysit them, or whatever, but it, it bothers me that people are paying their tithes. My mother's still paying her tithe and she's almost 95 years old and she said a lot of her friends have stopped giving their tithe to this church because of all this lawsuit business. And I don't know, I just. We've heard rumors that a lot of the money went to those sons into their little committee. And I just, it just bothers me. I don't know, I mean, these are rumors. I don't know whether they're true or not, but it just bothers me, that if, you know, they're having to lay off great people that worked at the church where my mom is laying them off. We're sorry, we don't have the money, we don't have the funds. And I'm thinking this is Second Baptist Church, you know, you got five campuses can't afford to pay child care for these little mothers who want to come and do Bible study, but they can't because they've got babies.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a good point, Becky. no doubt Second Baptist Houston has, really lost a lot of people. And when you lose a lot of people, you lose a lot of resources, and so they're having to refigure things. But, yeah, you know, here would be my encouragement. It's, you need to go where the Lord wants you to go. If you get to a place where you don't trust, the leadership and you don't trust how they're using the money, which could be a natural response to what's going on at Second Baptist, then you need to pray and say, lord, do you want me somewhere else? because wherever you go, you need to be all in, and you need to feel good about man. I'm giving to the Lord, and I feel confident that they're using my resources wisely here. So God bless you. Thanks for, all the calls. I'm sorry we didn't get to everybody. Shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you, and God will use you as his witness. God bless you.