: Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's Pastor Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good morning and welcome to Real Truth for Today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here on this first Friday, September 11th, the 25th anniversary of 9 11. we have said we will never forget, but I wonder if that is true. For lots of people. It seems like we've forgotten. We need to remember. You know, I was doing a little research this morning about the, word remember in Scripture. It's used in the NewSong American Standard Bible 168 times, many times in the book of Deuteronomy, as Moses is talking to the people before they go into the promised land and before he goes, to meet the Lord, he keeps telling them, remember, remember, remember, remember that you were slaves. Remember, that this happened and that happened. You know the Bible in the NewSong Testament, Second Peter, chapter three. Peter says, this is now beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder that you should remember. Remember what? The words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles. We need to remember. And we need to remember what happened on 9 11. I ran across a tribute that the White House did last year on 9 11. that was, voiced over by none other than Billy Graham.
Speaker C: No matter how hard we try, words simply cannot express the horror, the shock and the revulsion we all feel over what took place in this nation on Tuesday morning. September 11th will go down in our history as a day to remember.
Jeff Chamblee: A breaking news story to Tell you about. Apparently, a plane has just crashed into the World Trade center here in NewSong York City. Happened just a few moments ago.
Speaker C: None of us will ever forget the pictures of our courageous firefighters and police, many of whom have lost friends and colleagues, or the hundreds of people attending or standing patiently in line to donate blood. A tragedy like this could have torn our country apart, but instead, it has united us and we've become a family. our nation has been attacked, buildings destroyed, lives lost. But now we have a choice. Whether to implode and disintegrate emotionally and spiritually as a people and a nation, or whether we choose to become stronger through all of this struggle to rebuild on a solid foundation.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That was Billy Graham. Now, I count it a pleasure and a privilege to welcome to the program a hero of mine in the faith and someone who is led to Christ by watching Billy Graham on television so many years ago. 1973. That is skip Heitzig. He's the founder and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Albuquerque, NewSong Mexico, one of the largest churches in America. Skip, welcome to the program.
Skip Heitzig: Thank you, Jeff. It's great to be with you on a very solemn, day of remembrance, but great to be with you nonetheless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, Skip, you know, I think about today, and I think about where I was when, the news came and watching on television, and just in shock and in horror. what thoughts come to your mind as you think back 25 years ago?
Skip Heitzig: 25 years ago, I was taking my son Nate to school. Now he's in the ministry, but I was taking him to high school. And, I got the call from my wife. I was, like, going. Leaving Starbucks with him, going to his school. And my wife called me and she said a plane hit the World Trade Center. We don't know if it's private or commercial, but she gave me the news because I had not heard. Then I tuned into the news, and the day unfolded from there. So I distinctly remember where I was and what the morning looked like. You know, it's one of those moments you never forget. It gets tattooed in your conscience.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, it was just such a shock. I think that we as Americans felt like, you know, hey, I don't think there's going to be another war there. Definitely. I mean, nobody's going to attack, attack us. But we were attacked that day, and then attacked in a way that we would not have seen coming. I don't think anybody envisioned somebody hijacking planes and, and flying them into buildings that was just, like, so foreign to our Minds.
Skip Heitzig: Now, you're right, there was, I mean there had always been threats by different groups, but nobody really took them serious enough that it would warrant a, an attack like that. So we, we, I think collectively as a nation, we're taken completely off guard.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So, one of the things, George W. Bush was president and I, I think for conservatives, we were very thankful that he was the president during a time of crisis like this. But something he said and he's doubled down on this, over the years. You know, Islam is a peaceful religion. He wanted to emphasize that even though these were all Islamic terrorists and people who would, they would be ready to fight you to the death if you said that they weren't true followers of Muhammad, they were true followers of Muhammad. I contend. Skip that. That's what Muhammad did. That's what he taught. He would have been all for that. give me your comments on the, the idea that. Well, we don't need to think of Islam in negative terms because it's a peaceful religion.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, look at, our president spoke out of ignorance at that moment. He didn't know. He didn't know Islam. And I hope he has studied up a little bit more since then. But there may be some Muslims who are peaceful, but Islam as a entity has at a core value, resistance and war and the permission to go to war with people who are non believers. in fact, we are designated in the Koran as the House of War. You're either of the House of Islam, that is you submit, or you belong to the House of War and you are to be resisted. So there may be some Muslims who don't hold to their faith in an orthodox, fundamental manner. We would can, just like we have in Christianity, liberal Christians. You may have liberal Muslims who will be peaceful people, but by and large, you know, even in Saudi Arabia, which I've been to, on their flag is the sword. And you know, that's how most Islam was advanced.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. When did you go to Saudi, Skip?
Skip Heitzig: I went a few years back to meet with the Crown Prince. And you know, he, he remembers being alive on 911 and as a kid and really he. His first thought was somebody hijacked our religion and is using it as a bludgeon against the West. And so, you know, he's different. He is a reformer. He wants to bring. He wants to get rid of all the radicals in his country and strike, peace deals. He's very, very different than other leaders of that country. But I remember hearing his thoughts of what happened on that day and how he processed it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So going over there, I could imagine you would feel the demonic oppression in that country.
Skip Heitzig: Well, you know, I was with a delegation, you know, I had some pretty hefty people like Joel Rosenberg, Myshel Bachman, Tony Perkins, somebody, who was at one time the president of, cbn. And so it was a small coalition of evangelical leaders and he wanted to meet evangelical Christians because he understood that if we're going to make an alliance with the west, that a lot of the west are evangelical believers, Christians. He wanted to get to have a dial. I get to know him and and him to get to know them. And so we were free to ask any questions whatsoever. And it was wonderful. Joel Rosenberg, kind of teed the ball up for me. And he said, I'm sure, your excellency, that the, the name or term evangelical Christian is not a term that is used much in this palace or ever has been, maybe never has been before, but maybe it would be good for you to understand what an evangelical Christian is and what he believes in. So I have a pastor here from Albuquerque, would love to explain, what it is we believe and you know, for you and your court. So I was able at that point to share the gospel, in the, in the royal court of Saudi Arabia. It was a moment I'll never forget.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How was that received?
Skip Heitzig: Well, it was very diplomatic and very professional. So, it went well. I mean, I was a little bit nervous, but it was just one of those great moments in life that God gives you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. You know, Jerry Falwell used to say, I'd preach the gospel in hell if they promised to let me out after I was done. that must have been a little bit of that feeling. Well, I would just imagine with Mecca being there and that's where the, you know, your, your journey is to, for every Muslim, that's. Yeah, that's part of their, their deal, you know, their pilgrimage. That that would be like as it says in Revelation, where Satan, Satan's headquarters is. Did it feel like that?
Skip Heitzig: It felt, oppressive in the sense that it was a culture I was not used to. They were very friendly and they were very open and they showed us how they're fighting terrorism around the world, which is noble. I mean, listen, they, they were about to sign on to the Abraham Accords. At one time, before October 7th happened, they were ripe and ready. I, I was just two days ago, I met with the former crown Prince of Iran. He was the Shah of Iran's son. And he believes that Saudi Arabia, he's a.
Speaker C: He.
Caroline: He.
Skip Heitzig: His father was an ally of Israel at one time. And, and he has met. This man has met with, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and he believes that Saudi Arabia was, going to be an ally in the Abraham Accords before October 7th. So, I mean, I felt when I came into the country like, oh, man, this is kind of a strange place. How they're dressed and how they live and what they believe in. But this crown prince is trying hard to change that. I mean, he just allowed women to drive and go to sporting events and go to movies a few years ago, which was considered off limits in Islam.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. They still have to wear all the garb in public.
Caroline: Right.
Skip Heitzig: Both men and women dress up in a certain way.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Skip, if we think about the phrase that we had for 9 11. So for so many years, it's still being used now. You know, may we never forget. many have said with the election of Zoraim Mandani, that we have forgotten. Here's a. Here's a Muslim and a socialist, and we elect him to be mayor of the largest city in America. I, think we've forgotten, what we should have remembered from 9 11. How do you view that?
Skip Heitzig: I think the people who did not vote for him were the ones that remembered. I think the people that voted for him either didn't remember or weren't born at the time or were too young to remember, and they've just seen clips, sort of like the generation after, Pearle Harbor. it's fresh in the collective memory, but not that fresh. So, you know, listen, even though people may remember it, they cast it in a different light over time because of voices like the squad, you know, in. In Congress, you know, these representatives that say something. Somebody did something to somebody on, September 11th, you know, to marginalize it like that and to be them as a public representative, that kind of messaging, erodes that collective memory of what we should be focused on.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and we see in our churches, I mean, they were filled that next Sunday, and that didn't last. You know, it. I had Bill, Federer on the program yesterday, and he was talking about Charlie Kirk's, memorial service and how that drew in, you know, however many hundreds of millions of people and viewers and Jesus was exalted. But that didn't last. It. It's like a blip on the screen and then it's gone. right. That's a sad deal, but that's the way we are. That's why the Bible keeps saying, remember, remember, remember.
Skip Heitzig: Right. I was just going to say that's what, why Deuteronomy says, and you shall remember. That was a commandment all the way. The Lord thy God led thee in the wilderness and what he did and how he provided and m, how he overturned your enemies and you know, we go through very fast news cycles in our country and what happened, what was on the news cycle a week ago is like old news to us. And it's just the way we have been fed our media.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Skip, hold that thought. you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here talking to Pastor Skip Heitzig. We'll be back with more. 9 11. Don't go away.
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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Skip Heitzig, the founder and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Albuquerque, NewSong Mexico. That church began as a home Bible study, home Bible study in 1982 and has grown to be one of the largest churches in America. Skip has lots, of things going on. Pastor, author, speaker. He has his connect with Skip Heitzig that is on many, many radio stations and television stations. And Skip, how long have you had the Connect ministry?
Skip Heitzig: almost as long as we've been a church. We started in media pretty quickly afterwards, so, at least 35 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Wow, okay, that's great. We, I have from His Heart Ministries. We started that in 2004 and as you know, Media Ministries Is, it's not easy. It takes a lot of money and, sometimes people don't understand. But, man, what I love about it, I'm assuming the same for you, it gets to places where you, you're not going to get there physically through radio.
Skip Heitzig: Exactly right. And with modern media, that's kind of TV and radio is almost considered an older type of media. You know, with social media and YouTube, you can just reach in the faraway places of the earth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, one of the things I love about you, Skip, I, can Type in to YouTube. I can type in sermons on X passage. So I'm preaching through numbers. Sermons on number 20. Numbers, chapter 20. And, put your name in there and pretty much if there's a Bible passage, you got a sermon on it. I don't know if you've preached through, like MacArthur, every portion of the NewSong Testament, but you have a lot of, Old Testament books that a lot of pastors don't preach on. You have a sermon on that. And, I appreciate the fact that you go straight through the scripture and you don't dodge different sections just because they're difficult.
Skip Heitzig: Well, you know, J. Vernon McGee told me something years ago. He said, it's like when you go to college and you say, I want to major in this discipline. They say, okay, you got to take these classes. You may not like to take those classes. Others may be more interesting to you than other classes, but you have to take them all if you want to get a degree. And the Bible gives you everything on God's heart. And, and he didn't say you can skip a part. So, we take the whole scripture. We go from Genesis to Revelation. Now we do that on our midweek Sunday morning. I'll preach through a book of the Bible, then I'll do a series, then I'll go do a book, then I'll do a different series. So I'll mix it up. But it is, our Wednesday night that we have gone through and preached through the entire Bible about three, almost four times.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Wow, that's impressive. And, and you know, from a preaching standpoint, there are passages of scripture that are hard to preach. I mean, they're just.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, they're hard to read, let alone preach. Now, like Leviticus or Job or Isaiah, those are long, lengthy, detailed passages and require or even the latter part of Daniel. You know, some of the right prophetic are very difficult and detailed. Like Daniel 11 has 135 predictions in a few verses, in that chapter. So it's Takes. Takes studying and explaining.
Caroline: Hm.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, the, the, the apocalyptic literature. Ezekiel. Ezekiel is hard to read for me.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think Romans. It can be difficult to preach because it's so dense.
Skip Heitzig: I agree. It's thick. Full of theology and concepts that, when people say Romans is our favorite book of the Bible, I go, really? Which verse? Because you probably are thinking of just a section. It's not an easy book to get through.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: No, it's definitely not. Okay, so skip. As we think about today and, 2977 people were killed. The hijackers are not included. 19 of those guys, gave their lives believing a lie. You know, to me, I think in my mind that's the way lots of people are going to die. They believe they're in a false religion, they're holding to a false hope. They've never put their faith and trust in Jesus. They're going to be like the man in Luke 16 who died. And in Hades he looked up and here I am and this is forever. but 2977 were killed as the planes started flying into the buildings. 846, the first flight hit the North Tower. 903, the second flight hit the South South Tower. And then 9:37am This M is Eastern Time. the flight 77 hits the Pentagon and then the towers start collapsing and all those things. I mean it was just, it was shocking for the one plane, but then to read about the other plane and then see the towers come down and then know the one flight, the guys rose up and said, we're not going to let you do this. And they crashed in a field. But, all that loss of life, just like that.
Skip Heitzig: Instant. Yes.
Caroline: Yeah.
Skip Heitzig: when that second plane hit, I knew, I think most of us knew. This is an attack. This is not a coincidence. It's not an accident. It's not a little plane. Somebody's trying to get us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: What, what was your church service like that, that next Sunday?
Skip Heitzig: Well, we had a church service that night.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay.
Skip Heitzig: And then we had another service the next night. So a Tuesday night and a Wednesday night and then a weekend. And the services were packed, all of them. People want to get together and want to hear from God at a time like that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, definitely. And you know, I think that, if a church didn't discuss that, it's kind of like. Okay. Yesterday was the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk, Skip. I was shocked at how so many churches wouldn't touch Charlie Kirk's martyrdom. Assassination with a 10 foot pole. It's like, how do you not do that?
Skip Heitzig: I, I agree. I mean, you got to at least say something and honor the man. He, he was, he died. Really, he died for his faith. And it was his faith that motivated him to speak out on issues like he did. So, even if you're a pastor and you thought he was a little bit too, radical in the way he presented himself, at least acknowledge what has happened. I mean, the look at his funeral service, how many people attended that and watched it.
Caroline: Yeah.
Skip Heitzig: So that's the kind of impact he had.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Did you know him personally?
Skip Heitzig: No, I really, I tried. I spoke to his staff and I was trying to invite him to come out here and speak at our church, but, it never happened.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, what a tremendous, individual he was. And he. He fired up a lot of people. Now he, you. You are cut from the same cloth. I would put myself cut from the same cloth. You speak the truth in love, but you don't back off the truth. our world today, if you speak the truth to our world, it's exactly what the scripture says. If the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. Jesus said in Jon 7. 7, the world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify against it, that its deeds are evil. And Skip, for the pastors that may be listening today, what would be your word of encouragement and challenge for these guys that stand in the pulpit week after week?
Skip Heitzig: Well, Paul said, as Timothy preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, rebuke, console with all long suffering and doctrine. So, you're not called to be a manufacturer as a pastor. You're called to be a distributor. You don't have to come up with something cool to say God already said it. Tell people what he said and be a distributor. of what he has already declared. And there are some things he declared that people aren't going to like, listen. Nobody likes to know they're going to die and go to hell, but they will unless they receive God's solution. He doesn't want anybody to go to hell.
: He.
Skip Heitzig: He made hell for the devil and his angels. But it's a real place and you know, either speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or get out of the ministry.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's, that's good. Okay, Skip, how do you view the, You know, when we had all this seeker sensitive. We don't hear as much about this like we did in the 90s and maybe the early 2000s at the Seeker sensitive movement. And we need to give people what they want and music that will be, more along the lines of what they like to listen to and things like that. And you have the, the older guard, Jon MacArthur was part of that older guard that, you know, their church services were very, very much in, more inclined to high church with big orchestras and things like that. how do you view, especially looking at the aftermath, how do you view the seeker sensitive movement?
Skip Heitzig: I never liked the secret sensitive movement, and I've spoken out against it because it is a wrong premise. The premise of the seeker sensitive movement is if I show unbelievers that I'm as cool as they are, that I am as hip and approachable and all the things as they are, they're going to listen to me and like me. you just quoted a great scripture. Jesus said, they're not going to like you. They didn't like me. And, I think that instead of showing the world that we're like them, we have to show them how different we are from them. Yes, that's our task. So that should be in our message, that should be in our music, that should be in the love that we give to them, because the world doesn't give them love. And when they come through our doors and we welcome them and we show love to them and respect to them, that's different right off the bat. But then when we preach the gospel and the show that preach the truth to them, they're not going to get that from any other place. So we have to be the one source that is the true source that they get it from. Otherwise there's no hope. And, you know, there's a whole generation now of people that reject a young generation, reject seeker sensitivity. They just see that as fluff and hype. And they really want to know truth. They want Bible, they really want somebody to explain these things to him. There's, there's a new attraction. I'm glad for that. Just like there was in the Jesus movement, a lot of us didn't want the fluff or the high church. We wanted something that was just our level real. And, then it went to the seeker sensitive, kind of swung the other direction. Now it's kind of coming back where there's a hunger in the younger people for pure truth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Skip, how do you view. I know you're involved in Trump's first presidency. You're, you're part of a coalition of pastors that got to speak into his life. you haven't been involved this time, but, like the big rally in Dallas. So they had that, last night and the night before Wednesday and Thursday night. Jack Graham was, he kind of kicked it off, on Wednesday night. Robert Jeffress was kicking it off last night. how do you view those big rallies in light of the midterms and things like that?
Skip Heitzig: Well, I think it's a good thing to motivate, people to vote, because midterms generally just don't have the same kind of steam that the primary that the main election has. So, I think it was probably a good idea to do that because, we can become lackadaisical when it comes to the voting booth, and we ought not to be. I mean, these are issues that are always on the plate. And the choice is a pretty binary choice. It's either between people who will hold your values more than the other candidate who definitely will not hold your values, or hold biblical values.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Yeah. Jeffress was saying, you know, he. He said, hey, we're here at this convention. I don't know if you got to see any of this, Skip. But he said, you know, we. We struggle with sin. We're not holding ourselves up as perfect people. But he said the other side is championing sin. He said, that's the big difference. And I've said this before many times with, Donald Trump. not a perfect guy by any stretch of the imagination, but he does have a moral compass. He knows the difference between right and wrong, who are the victims and who are the perpetrators. That's not blurred in his mind. And to me, he's trying to do what is right, even though he does it in a flawed, egotistical away. I'd much rather ride that horse than go down the cliff with these people that have no moral compass.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, Jeff, that's a good way to put it. Actually. It is a cliff. And, here is a party, the Democratic Party, who has taken Romans 1 and made it their platform. M. You know, every sin in that chapter, they've decided that's a good thing. That's who we are, that's what we stand for. And so that has become their platform.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's just, it's sickening. And now, Skip, you and I both believe that the Rapture is coming before the tribulation period. if the Rapture were to come today, how quickly do you think America would just totally implode in wickedness?
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, we are the salt of the earth, Jesus said. And once we're taken out of the way. Once the Holy Spirit in the church is taken out of the way, then the rot can take its full effect in the meat of the population that is left behind. And I think that's going to happen very quickly. I mean, here's September 11th. You have a Muslim mayor in NewSong York 25 years later. Okay, that's 25 years. But when you have no believers making their voice known, it's, it's going to be very, very quick. A, quick precipitous fallout.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, even if the Lord delays his coming, we don't know when it's coming. It's hard for me to imagine that it could be a long time from now. I just don't see how we survive as a society, across the board. if we're 100 years away, it seems to me that his coming is very near. How do you sense that?
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, you know, near and far are always relative terms. because we are, we're living in time. God lives in eternity. I know that certain things have to happen in the Middle east for things like Ezekiel 38 and 39 to happen, for certain end time scenarios. Now, a lot of those things can happen quickly, but there has to be a level of, there has to be a level of security and peace that Israel feels before that war takes place in Ezekiel. Because, that, and that isn't really the case now. I mean, some think it could be you could make the case for it with the iron dome system that they have, they can ensure their own, peace. But it seems that the passage necessitates that there will be some kind of public policy, policy in place that will take Israel completely by surprise.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Were you listening to Real Truth for today? Pastor Jeff Schrieve talking to Skip Heitzig. When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. If you have a question or a comment, give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Skip Heidsig. We're remembering 911 on this 25th anniversary of September 11th. And most of us who are old enough to remember, we remember where we were when the news came and people were glued to the television. And we couldn't believe it when we saw the second plane fly into the World Trade center and then Skip. I think, burned in our brains, too, are the people jumping off the building. you die by fire or you die by fall. But I guess they chose to fall. you know, you think about those firefighters and the police officers and the amount of people that were killed. 343 NewSong York firefighters were killed that day. 23 police officers, 37 Port Authority officers. I mean, it's just hard to wrap your brain around that.
Skip Heitzig: I went to ground zero as soon as the airports opened. I was, I worked there for three straight weeks, and I was on the ground at the hole, you know, pulling out little parts of things and putting them in the bucket. It's called the bucket brigade. And, meeting all of the people who had lost loved ones and were still looking for some DNA evidence to identify people, who had been killed. It was horrendous.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really was. and, you know, we're not to forget that, but we've forgotten that. And, so your thoughts on Zoram Mandani before we go to the phones. a socialist Islamist, which one of those is more concerning to you?
Skip Heitzig: the Islamist is, more concerning to me. Both of them are cancerous, ideologies. And the socialism in our country is a naive ideology. It's just stupidity. It's somebody who, anybody who would hold a socialism, hasn't done their homework enough to understand what that does to a society and really what it means at its core. It now sounds to kids to be hip and cool and the new thing, and let's try it. We've tried everything else and it hasn't worked. But, strictly just speaking in terms of economics, if you're in this country and you have ambition and you work hard, you become successful, everything you need is right there in capitalism. So socialism as a construct is a flawed one, and it's going to be ultimately controlled by a small group of people who dictate to you what you need to do and how you need to live. But Islamism is dangerous on every single level. It is pure deception. It is demonic. And, listen, Muslims have an agenda, and that is to, buy something they call taqiya, which is the doctrine of I can lie to you to get you to think that I'm a certain way, but then I'm going to pull my mask off when it's convenient for me to gain control of you. that's what, that's what they will do. I mean, look, look, At Europe. they're already past the point of no return.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a scary deal for sure. Well, let's go to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. We have Scott on the line from Mississippi. Scott, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: We certainly are grateful to have patriot pastors like you two guys this morning. And thank y' all for being willing to share it such a time m. Of remembrance. And I, wish we, as I wish every church, every Christian, church could celebrate let's roll Sunday. Because that's what I remember most. the courage that Todd Beamer and the group around him had, when they, overtook the, evil and took, the plane down in a place where it would do less damage and, really, make a statement of courage that we so desperately need in our. In our Christian community today. I really feel like the government has failed us in so many ways, two of which is protection. I still have not heard anything, about the bringing. Bringing, about how. How people.
Caroline: How.
Caroline: How we are. How the perpetrators of 911 actually received expenses, training, and how to be a pilot. Being, without, any. Any red flags showing up. This could possibly be a problem. And I've never heard. The other problem is justice. Our government, we. We hear a lot of talk about injustice. And miss we. We have had a huge misplacement of justice, but we've not had proper justice brought anywhere along the line that I'm aware of.
: Yeah, let me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Let me pick up on that, Scott. Skip, you know, not just with 9 11, but with all this stuff that we've been hearing. This has been frustrating. So Ilhan Omar, we hear about things. We hear about the fraud in Minnesota that's just off the chain. And then you don't hear about it anymore. It's like, good night. If I don't do my taxes right, they come after me. But it seems like these people are. They're high profile. the governor of Minnesota just seems as crooked as can be. Why is that guy not being indicted?
Skip Heitzig: Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I will say that the legal system has. Has something called due process. And, they uncovered the scams and now they have to prosecute them. Well, you know, it's been a year since Charlie Kirk's murder trial has been underway. So it takes a long time to gather evidence and to present it. And then you get two sides and they have their teams of people. So unfortunately, once you Put this. Once you uncover a scam and then you publicize it and we all hear about it, that's one thing. But then to get the due process enough down the road to indict takes some time. And so that's where we have to be a little patient with our legal system, because there's a lot of crooked people in this country that are in that legal system.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, for sure. Especially in judges and things like that. Well, Scott, I appreciate your comments. Thank you so much for calling in. And we have, David on the line from Florida. David, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I just have to go off in a different direction. I've been watching on, YouTube about, the generals, Christian generals of the past, and 90% of the ones I've heard of, they never went to seminary school. They never went to teaching schools to teach them who God is. They worked in coal mines and dug that broke rock. They worked in farmer fields. They were illiterate. But God rose up men that were not trained, and he trained them to be evangelists. It really amazes, me that we have so many prophets, we have so many evangelists, we have so many speakers, we have so many people that are supposedly anointed, but the churches are dead. Nothing's happening. Nobody. Nothing. Nothing's happening. And it's just. I get really frustrated and I get emotional, but I think God's, trying to tell us something with. I think when the towers got hit and the churches got filled, I think they went there, the gossip got boring. They stopped going to church again. They don't care about God. They don't care about Christianity. They just want to live their lives.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, you're breaking up a little bit, David. But, okay, Skip, that's true for a good portion of the people that just kind of flocked to church, and maybe for one or two weeks, and then they were gone. we were very disappointed to see that. You know, it's kind of. To me, it was like, what will it take to wake you up to the reality of life and death, heaven and hell, that God is real? did you have. As a pastor, were you, disheartened by what you saw after that?
Skip Heitzig: No, I expect it, and here's why. Jesus gave a parable, of a man who went out to sow seed. And it fell. The same seed fell on different types of soil. Some received it and bore forth great fruit. 30, 60, and 100 fold, 75% in that parable. Of the seed that went on other soils bore no fruit. That was long lasting fruit. It either was eaten up by the enemy immediately. So you got a lot of people come to church. They come to church and next week and then they don't come again after the crisis. But then you have some people that get very emotional and get very, you know, animated and we're gonna, I'm a believer now. But they last for a few months and they're gone. And then others get choked up by the world. Jesus gave the template and said that is going to happen. That's human nature.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well that's true. now skip your. Correct me if I'm wrong. But you're not. You would not call yourself a Calvinist, would you?
Skip Heitzig: No.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But now you believe some of the things.
Skip Heitzig: Jon, I don't think Calvin was a Calvinist.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Explain that.
Skip Heitzig: Five point Calvinism in its strictest form is a very rigid system. And Calvin, I mean he was a brilliant man, I think it was an attorney. he collated, and organized Christian truth in a very, in a very incredible way. However, if you look at a lot of the five five point Calvinists today, I think that Calvin would disagree with many of them on some of the points.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I don't think he ever taught unlimited atonement, which is, that's a big sticking point for a lot of people. I don't know if you follow on social media. So Jenna Ellis is on the program before me. She and Dinesh d' Souza were in a online X platform battle with Calvinists. And in my experience Calvinists like to argue, not all of them, but a lot of them. And it's just like, well, and then Dinesh went so far as to say he didn't even believe the P of tulip perseverance of the saints, which is like. Well that's definitely. I believe that once you're saved, you're saved forever. but you know, it's like you're not going to solve anything on the X platform regarding Calvinism.
Skip Heitzig: Right. Listen, I, and I, I like what Dinesh says. I really agree with a lot of his stuff, especially I've, I've heard it lately on Calvinism. I guess I consider myself a moderate Calvinist, a lot of it. I don't want to say that all those five points are all wrong. They're solid, good biblical truths. I believe in predestination. I believe in election. I also believe in choice and I believe that those two worlds intersect. And I believe that, you. You have to. The Scripture presents two different sides of this. He presents it from God's side that God predetermines and elects because he has foreknowledge. And then mankind also is involved in that process and meets God there at human volition. Ah, which is also involved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I've always. Revelation 20. I've never heard too much on this, but I make a big deal about this. So at the Great White Throne, judgment books were open, and another book is open, which is the Book of Life. And if your name's not found in the Book of Life, you were thrown into the lake of fire. And my question was, well, nobody. There's names in the Book of Life, so why open the Book of Life? I believe it's to show that Jesus died for everyone. Your name could have been in there. first Jon, chapter two. He himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Now, you didn't receive the love of the truth so as to be saved, and, and so you took pleasure in wickedness. But I think that that's a, a strong point at the Great White Throne Judgment, that, hey, I died for you, but you rejected it.
Skip Heitzig: Right? And I agree, I completely agree with you. But I really like the way Spurgeon put it. Spurgeon was a Calvinist, and, but he was, he was a fun Calvinist, and there's very few fun Calvinists. And, and the reason I like Spurgeon is he said, I believe that God has chosen in advance who he saves. The problem is he didn't tell me, and he told me to preach the gospel to every creature.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. All right, we have Jim, on the line from Arkansas. Jim, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: It won't take me but just a second. we were talking about, Republican, Democrat, Trump and the Democrats. Here's the. If you're going down a dirt road and it's getting muddy, I'm with Trump, and he's going to stay in the ruts and he's going to go on down that road, even though we get a little muddy. But if I get with those Democrats, we're going to slip off in the ditch and we can't get out, and that's it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's a good way to put it, Jim. So, would you agree with that assessment, Skip?
Skip Heitzig: You know, I always love these kind of homespun analogy. That was, that was fun. That was wonderfully.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Put, I think. Well, I would go so far as to say that you don't slip into that ditch. You slip into the abyss.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, you definitely can. You know, there was a time when you could be, in the Democratic Party and be a believer, but that was a long time ago. I don't know if you know that Billy Graham, you just had his voice. But he was a registered Democrat.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Skip Heitzig: And. And although he had not voted Democrat. Democratic. For the Democratic Party for some time, the old form of Democrats were. A lot of them were Bible believers. But that platform is long gone. The old Democrats are like modern Republicans in terms of policy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, even. And Bill Maher is kind of. I mean, he would. He's, a liberal, but doesn't sound like it.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, I mean, he. He realizes the Democratic Party he signed up for is not the same.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, Skip, thank you so much for being my guest. It's been a pleasure, my friend, and God bless you and keep those great sermons coming. Thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Go out today, Shine for Christ. Share what great things. Things the Lord has done for you. And guess what? God will use you as his witness. God bless you.
: Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's Pastor Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good morning and welcome to Real Truth for Today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here on this first Friday, September 11th, the 25th anniversary of 9 11. we have said we will never forget, but I wonder if that is true. For lots of people. It seems like we've forgotten. We need to remember. You know, I was doing a little research this morning about the, word remember in Scripture. It's used in the NewSong American Standard Bible 168 times, many times in the book of Deuteronomy, as Moses is talking to the people before they go into the promised land and before he goes, to meet the Lord, he keeps telling them, remember, remember, remember, remember that you were slaves. Remember, that this happened and that happened. You know the Bible in the NewSong Testament, Second Peter, chapter three. Peter says, this is now beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder that you should remember. Remember what? The words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles. We need to remember. And we need to remember what happened on 9 11. I ran across a tribute that the White House did last year on 9 11. that was, voiced over by none other than Billy Graham.
Speaker C: No matter how hard we try, words simply cannot express the horror, the shock and the revulsion we all feel over what took place in this nation on Tuesday morning. September 11th will go down in our history as a day to remember.
Jeff Chamblee: A breaking news story to Tell you about. Apparently, a plane has just crashed into the World Trade center here in NewSong York City. Happened just a few moments ago.
Speaker C: None of us will ever forget the pictures of our courageous firefighters and police, many of whom have lost friends and colleagues, or the hundreds of people attending or standing patiently in line to donate blood. A tragedy like this could have torn our country apart, but instead, it has united us and we've become a family. our nation has been attacked, buildings destroyed, lives lost. But now we have a choice. Whether to implode and disintegrate emotionally and spiritually as a people and a nation, or whether we choose to become stronger through all of this struggle to rebuild on a solid foundation.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That was Billy Graham. Now, I count it a pleasure and a privilege to welcome to the program a hero of mine in the faith and someone who is led to Christ by watching Billy Graham on television so many years ago. 1973. That is skip Heitzig. He's the founder and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Albuquerque, NewSong Mexico, one of the largest churches in America. Skip, welcome to the program.
Skip Heitzig: Thank you, Jeff. It's great to be with you on a very solemn, day of remembrance, but great to be with you nonetheless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, Skip, you know, I think about today, and I think about where I was when, the news came and watching on television, and just in shock and in horror. what thoughts come to your mind as you think back 25 years ago?
Skip Heitzig: 25 years ago, I was taking my son Nate to school. Now he's in the ministry, but I was taking him to high school. And, I got the call from my wife. I was, like, going. Leaving Starbucks with him, going to his school. And my wife called me and she said a plane hit the World Trade Center. We don't know if it's private or commercial, but she gave me the news because I had not heard. Then I tuned into the news, and the day unfolded from there. So I distinctly remember where I was and what the morning looked like. You know, it's one of those moments you never forget. It gets tattooed in your conscience.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, it was just such a shock. I think that we as Americans felt like, you know, hey, I don't think there's going to be another war there. Definitely. I mean, nobody's going to attack, attack us. But we were attacked that day, and then attacked in a way that we would not have seen coming. I don't think anybody envisioned somebody hijacking planes and, and flying them into buildings that was just, like, so foreign to our Minds.
Skip Heitzig: Now, you're right, there was, I mean there had always been threats by different groups, but nobody really took them serious enough that it would warrant a, an attack like that. So we, we, I think collectively as a nation, we're taken completely off guard.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So, one of the things, George W. Bush was president and I, I think for conservatives, we were very thankful that he was the president during a time of crisis like this. But something he said and he's doubled down on this, over the years. You know, Islam is a peaceful religion. He wanted to emphasize that even though these were all Islamic terrorists and people who would, they would be ready to fight you to the death if you said that they weren't true followers of Muhammad, they were true followers of Muhammad. I contend. Skip that. That's what Muhammad did. That's what he taught. He would have been all for that. give me your comments on the, the idea that. Well, we don't need to think of Islam in negative terms because it's a peaceful religion.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, look at, our president spoke out of ignorance at that moment. He didn't know. He didn't know Islam. And I hope he has studied up a little bit more since then. But there may be some Muslims who are peaceful, but Islam as a entity has at a core value, resistance and war and the permission to go to war with people who are non believers. in fact, we are designated in the Koran as the House of War. You're either of the House of Islam, that is you submit, or you belong to the House of War and you are to be resisted. So there may be some Muslims who don't hold to their faith in an orthodox, fundamental manner. We would can, just like we have in Christianity, liberal Christians. You may have liberal Muslims who will be peaceful people, but by and large, you know, even in Saudi Arabia, which I've been to, on their flag is the sword. And you know, that's how most Islam was advanced.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. When did you go to Saudi, Skip?
Skip Heitzig: I went a few years back to meet with the Crown Prince. And you know, he, he remembers being alive on 911 and as a kid and really he. His first thought was somebody hijacked our religion and is using it as a bludgeon against the West. And so, you know, he's different. He is a reformer. He wants to bring. He wants to get rid of all the radicals in his country and strike, peace deals. He's very, very different than other leaders of that country. But I remember hearing his thoughts of what happened on that day and how he processed it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So going over there, I could imagine you would feel the demonic oppression in that country.
Skip Heitzig: Well, you know, I was with a delegation, you know, I had some pretty hefty people like Joel Rosenberg, Myshel Bachman, Tony Perkins, somebody, who was at one time the president of, cbn. And so it was a small coalition of evangelical leaders and he wanted to meet evangelical Christians because he understood that if we're going to make an alliance with the west, that a lot of the west are evangelical believers, Christians. He wanted to get to have a dial. I get to know him and and him to get to know them. And so we were free to ask any questions whatsoever. And it was wonderful. Joel Rosenberg, kind of teed the ball up for me. And he said, I'm sure, your excellency, that the, the name or term evangelical Christian is not a term that is used much in this palace or ever has been, maybe never has been before, but maybe it would be good for you to understand what an evangelical Christian is and what he believes in. So I have a pastor here from Albuquerque, would love to explain, what it is we believe and you know, for you and your court. So I was able at that point to share the gospel, in the, in the royal court of Saudi Arabia. It was a moment I'll never forget.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How was that received?
Skip Heitzig: Well, it was very diplomatic and very professional. So, it went well. I mean, I was a little bit nervous, but it was just one of those great moments in life that God gives you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. You know, Jerry Falwell used to say, I'd preach the gospel in hell if they promised to let me out after I was done. that must have been a little bit of that feeling. Well, I would just imagine with Mecca being there and that's where the, you know, your, your journey is to, for every Muslim, that's. Yeah, that's part of their, their deal, you know, their pilgrimage. That that would be like as it says in Revelation, where Satan, Satan's headquarters is. Did it feel like that?
Skip Heitzig: It felt, oppressive in the sense that it was a culture I was not used to. They were very friendly and they were very open and they showed us how they're fighting terrorism around the world, which is noble. I mean, listen, they, they were about to sign on to the Abraham Accords. At one time, before October 7th happened, they were ripe and ready. I, I was just two days ago, I met with the former crown Prince of Iran. He was the Shah of Iran's son. And he believes that Saudi Arabia, he's a.
Speaker C: He.
Caroline: He.
Skip Heitzig: His father was an ally of Israel at one time. And, and he has met. This man has met with, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and he believes that Saudi Arabia was, going to be an ally in the Abraham Accords before October 7th. So, I mean, I felt when I came into the country like, oh, man, this is kind of a strange place. How they're dressed and how they live and what they believe in. But this crown prince is trying hard to change that. I mean, he just allowed women to drive and go to sporting events and go to movies a few years ago, which was considered off limits in Islam.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. They still have to wear all the garb in public.
Caroline: Right.
Skip Heitzig: Both men and women dress up in a certain way.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Skip, if we think about the phrase that we had for 9 11. So for so many years, it's still being used now. You know, may we never forget. many have said with the election of Zoraim Mandani, that we have forgotten. Here's a. Here's a Muslim and a socialist, and we elect him to be mayor of the largest city in America. I, think we've forgotten, what we should have remembered from 9 11. How do you view that?
Skip Heitzig: I think the people who did not vote for him were the ones that remembered. I think the people that voted for him either didn't remember or weren't born at the time or were too young to remember, and they've just seen clips, sort of like the generation after, Pearle Harbor. it's fresh in the collective memory, but not that fresh. So, you know, listen, even though people may remember it, they cast it in a different light over time because of voices like the squad, you know, in. In Congress, you know, these representatives that say something. Somebody did something to somebody on, September 11th, you know, to marginalize it like that and to be them as a public representative, that kind of messaging, erodes that collective memory of what we should be focused on.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, and we see in our churches, I mean, they were filled that next Sunday, and that didn't last. You know, it. I had Bill, Federer on the program yesterday, and he was talking about Charlie Kirk's, memorial service and how that drew in, you know, however many hundreds of millions of people and viewers and Jesus was exalted. But that didn't last. It. It's like a blip on the screen and then it's gone. right. That's a sad deal, but that's the way we are. That's why the Bible keeps saying, remember, remember, remember.
Skip Heitzig: Right. I was just going to say that's what, why Deuteronomy says, and you shall remember. That was a commandment all the way. The Lord thy God led thee in the wilderness and what he did and how he provided and m, how he overturned your enemies and you know, we go through very fast news cycles in our country and what happened, what was on the news cycle a week ago is like old news to us. And it's just the way we have been fed our media.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Skip, hold that thought. you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here talking to Pastor Skip Heitzig. We'll be back with more. 9 11. Don't go away.
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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Skip Heitzig, the founder and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Albuquerque, NewSong Mexico. That church began as a home Bible study, home Bible study in 1982 and has grown to be one of the largest churches in America. Skip has lots, of things going on. Pastor, author, speaker. He has his connect with Skip Heitzig that is on many, many radio stations and television stations. And Skip, how long have you had the Connect ministry?
Skip Heitzig: almost as long as we've been a church. We started in media pretty quickly afterwards, so, at least 35 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Wow, okay, that's great. We, I have from His Heart Ministries. We started that in 2004 and as you know, Media Ministries Is, it's not easy. It takes a lot of money and, sometimes people don't understand. But, man, what I love about it, I'm assuming the same for you, it gets to places where you, you're not going to get there physically through radio.
Skip Heitzig: Exactly right. And with modern media, that's kind of TV and radio is almost considered an older type of media. You know, with social media and YouTube, you can just reach in the faraway places of the earth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, one of the things I love about you, Skip, I, can Type in to YouTube. I can type in sermons on X passage. So I'm preaching through numbers. Sermons on number 20. Numbers, chapter 20. And, put your name in there and pretty much if there's a Bible passage, you got a sermon on it. I don't know if you've preached through, like MacArthur, every portion of the NewSong Testament, but you have a lot of, Old Testament books that a lot of pastors don't preach on. You have a sermon on that. And, I appreciate the fact that you go straight through the scripture and you don't dodge different sections just because they're difficult.
Skip Heitzig: Well, you know, J. Vernon McGee told me something years ago. He said, it's like when you go to college and you say, I want to major in this discipline. They say, okay, you got to take these classes. You may not like to take those classes. Others may be more interesting to you than other classes, but you have to take them all if you want to get a degree. And the Bible gives you everything on God's heart. And, and he didn't say you can skip a part. So, we take the whole scripture. We go from Genesis to Revelation. Now we do that on our midweek Sunday morning. I'll preach through a book of the Bible, then I'll do a series, then I'll go do a book, then I'll do a different series. So I'll mix it up. But it is, our Wednesday night that we have gone through and preached through the entire Bible about three, almost four times.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Wow, that's impressive. And, and you know, from a preaching standpoint, there are passages of scripture that are hard to preach. I mean, they're just.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, they're hard to read, let alone preach. Now, like Leviticus or Job or Isaiah, those are long, lengthy, detailed passages and require or even the latter part of Daniel. You know, some of the right prophetic are very difficult and detailed. Like Daniel 11 has 135 predictions in a few verses, in that chapter. So it's Takes. Takes studying and explaining.
Caroline: Hm.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, the, the, the apocalyptic literature. Ezekiel. Ezekiel is hard to read for me.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think Romans. It can be difficult to preach because it's so dense.
Skip Heitzig: I agree. It's thick. Full of theology and concepts that, when people say Romans is our favorite book of the Bible, I go, really? Which verse? Because you probably are thinking of just a section. It's not an easy book to get through.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: No, it's definitely not. Okay, so skip. As we think about today and, 2977 people were killed. The hijackers are not included. 19 of those guys, gave their lives believing a lie. You know, to me, I think in my mind that's the way lots of people are going to die. They believe they're in a false religion, they're holding to a false hope. They've never put their faith and trust in Jesus. They're going to be like the man in Luke 16 who died. And in Hades he looked up and here I am and this is forever. but 2977 were killed as the planes started flying into the buildings. 846, the first flight hit the North Tower. 903, the second flight hit the South South Tower. And then 9:37am This M is Eastern Time. the flight 77 hits the Pentagon and then the towers start collapsing and all those things. I mean it was just, it was shocking for the one plane, but then to read about the other plane and then see the towers come down and then know the one flight, the guys rose up and said, we're not going to let you do this. And they crashed in a field. But, all that loss of life, just like that.
Skip Heitzig: Instant. Yes.
Caroline: Yeah.
Skip Heitzig: when that second plane hit, I knew, I think most of us knew. This is an attack. This is not a coincidence. It's not an accident. It's not a little plane. Somebody's trying to get us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: What, what was your church service like that, that next Sunday?
Skip Heitzig: Well, we had a church service that night.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay.
Skip Heitzig: And then we had another service the next night. So a Tuesday night and a Wednesday night and then a weekend. And the services were packed, all of them. People want to get together and want to hear from God at a time like that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, definitely. And you know, I think that, if a church didn't discuss that, it's kind of like. Okay. Yesterday was the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk, Skip. I was shocked at how so many churches wouldn't touch Charlie Kirk's martyrdom. Assassination with a 10 foot pole. It's like, how do you not do that?
Skip Heitzig: I, I agree. I mean, you got to at least say something and honor the man. He, he was, he died. Really, he died for his faith. And it was his faith that motivated him to speak out on issues like he did. So, even if you're a pastor and you thought he was a little bit too, radical in the way he presented himself, at least acknowledge what has happened. I mean, the look at his funeral service, how many people attended that and watched it.
Caroline: Yeah.
Skip Heitzig: So that's the kind of impact he had.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Did you know him personally?
Skip Heitzig: No, I really, I tried. I spoke to his staff and I was trying to invite him to come out here and speak at our church, but, it never happened.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, what a tremendous, individual he was. And he. He fired up a lot of people. Now he, you. You are cut from the same cloth. I would put myself cut from the same cloth. You speak the truth in love, but you don't back off the truth. our world today, if you speak the truth to our world, it's exactly what the scripture says. If the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. Jesus said in Jon 7. 7, the world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify against it, that its deeds are evil. And Skip, for the pastors that may be listening today, what would be your word of encouragement and challenge for these guys that stand in the pulpit week after week?
Skip Heitzig: Well, Paul said, as Timothy preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, rebuke, console with all long suffering and doctrine. So, you're not called to be a manufacturer as a pastor. You're called to be a distributor. You don't have to come up with something cool to say God already said it. Tell people what he said and be a distributor. of what he has already declared. And there are some things he declared that people aren't going to like, listen. Nobody likes to know they're going to die and go to hell, but they will unless they receive God's solution. He doesn't want anybody to go to hell.
: He.
Skip Heitzig: He made hell for the devil and his angels. But it's a real place and you know, either speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or get out of the ministry.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's, that's good. Okay, Skip, how do you view the, You know, when we had all this seeker sensitive. We don't hear as much about this like we did in the 90s and maybe the early 2000s at the Seeker sensitive movement. And we need to give people what they want and music that will be, more along the lines of what they like to listen to and things like that. And you have the, the older guard, Jon MacArthur was part of that older guard that, you know, their church services were very, very much in, more inclined to high church with big orchestras and things like that. how do you view, especially looking at the aftermath, how do you view the seeker sensitive movement?
Skip Heitzig: I never liked the secret sensitive movement, and I've spoken out against it because it is a wrong premise. The premise of the seeker sensitive movement is if I show unbelievers that I'm as cool as they are, that I am as hip and approachable and all the things as they are, they're going to listen to me and like me. you just quoted a great scripture. Jesus said, they're not going to like you. They didn't like me. And, I think that instead of showing the world that we're like them, we have to show them how different we are from them. Yes, that's our task. So that should be in our message, that should be in our music, that should be in the love that we give to them, because the world doesn't give them love. And when they come through our doors and we welcome them and we show love to them and respect to them, that's different right off the bat. But then when we preach the gospel and the show that preach the truth to them, they're not going to get that from any other place. So we have to be the one source that is the true source that they get it from. Otherwise there's no hope. And, you know, there's a whole generation now of people that reject a young generation, reject seeker sensitivity. They just see that as fluff and hype. And they really want to know truth. They want Bible, they really want somebody to explain these things to him. There's, there's a new attraction. I'm glad for that. Just like there was in the Jesus movement, a lot of us didn't want the fluff or the high church. We wanted something that was just our level real. And, then it went to the seeker sensitive, kind of swung the other direction. Now it's kind of coming back where there's a hunger in the younger people for pure truth.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Skip, how do you view. I know you're involved in Trump's first presidency. You're, you're part of a coalition of pastors that got to speak into his life. you haven't been involved this time, but, like the big rally in Dallas. So they had that, last night and the night before Wednesday and Thursday night. Jack Graham was, he kind of kicked it off, on Wednesday night. Robert Jeffress was kicking it off last night. how do you view those big rallies in light of the midterms and things like that?
Skip Heitzig: Well, I think it's a good thing to motivate, people to vote, because midterms generally just don't have the same kind of steam that the primary that the main election has. So, I think it was probably a good idea to do that because, we can become lackadaisical when it comes to the voting booth, and we ought not to be. I mean, these are issues that are always on the plate. And the choice is a pretty binary choice. It's either between people who will hold your values more than the other candidate who definitely will not hold your values, or hold biblical values.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Yeah. Jeffress was saying, you know, he. He said, hey, we're here at this convention. I don't know if you got to see any of this, Skip. But he said, you know, we. We struggle with sin. We're not holding ourselves up as perfect people. But he said the other side is championing sin. He said, that's the big difference. And I've said this before many times with, Donald Trump. not a perfect guy by any stretch of the imagination, but he does have a moral compass. He knows the difference between right and wrong, who are the victims and who are the perpetrators. That's not blurred in his mind. And to me, he's trying to do what is right, even though he does it in a flawed, egotistical away. I'd much rather ride that horse than go down the cliff with these people that have no moral compass.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, Jeff, that's a good way to put it. Actually. It is a cliff. And, here is a party, the Democratic Party, who has taken Romans 1 and made it their platform. M. You know, every sin in that chapter, they've decided that's a good thing. That's who we are, that's what we stand for. And so that has become their platform.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's just, it's sickening. And now, Skip, you and I both believe that the Rapture is coming before the tribulation period. if the Rapture were to come today, how quickly do you think America would just totally implode in wickedness?
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, we are the salt of the earth, Jesus said. And once we're taken out of the way. Once the Holy Spirit in the church is taken out of the way, then the rot can take its full effect in the meat of the population that is left behind. And I think that's going to happen very quickly. I mean, here's September 11th. You have a Muslim mayor in NewSong York 25 years later. Okay, that's 25 years. But when you have no believers making their voice known, it's, it's going to be very, very quick. A, quick precipitous fallout.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, even if the Lord delays his coming, we don't know when it's coming. It's hard for me to imagine that it could be a long time from now. I just don't see how we survive as a society, across the board. if we're 100 years away, it seems to me that his coming is very near. How do you sense that?
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, you know, near and far are always relative terms. because we are, we're living in time. God lives in eternity. I know that certain things have to happen in the Middle east for things like Ezekiel 38 and 39 to happen, for certain end time scenarios. Now, a lot of those things can happen quickly, but there has to be a level of, there has to be a level of security and peace that Israel feels before that war takes place in Ezekiel. Because, that, and that isn't really the case now. I mean, some think it could be you could make the case for it with the iron dome system that they have, they can ensure their own, peace. But it seems that the passage necessitates that there will be some kind of public policy, policy in place that will take Israel completely by surprise.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Were you listening to Real Truth for today? Pastor Jeff Schrieve talking to Skip Heitzig. When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. If you have a question or a comment, give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Skip Heidsig. We're remembering 911 on this 25th anniversary of September 11th. And most of us who are old enough to remember, we remember where we were when the news came and people were glued to the television. And we couldn't believe it when we saw the second plane fly into the World Trade center and then Skip. I think, burned in our brains, too, are the people jumping off the building. you die by fire or you die by fall. But I guess they chose to fall. you know, you think about those firefighters and the police officers and the amount of people that were killed. 343 NewSong York firefighters were killed that day. 23 police officers, 37 Port Authority officers. I mean, it's just hard to wrap your brain around that.
Skip Heitzig: I went to ground zero as soon as the airports opened. I was, I worked there for three straight weeks, and I was on the ground at the hole, you know, pulling out little parts of things and putting them in the bucket. It's called the bucket brigade. And, meeting all of the people who had lost loved ones and were still looking for some DNA evidence to identify people, who had been killed. It was horrendous.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really was. and, you know, we're not to forget that, but we've forgotten that. And, so your thoughts on Zoram Mandani before we go to the phones. a socialist Islamist, which one of those is more concerning to you?
Skip Heitzig: the Islamist is, more concerning to me. Both of them are cancerous, ideologies. And the socialism in our country is a naive ideology. It's just stupidity. It's somebody who, anybody who would hold a socialism, hasn't done their homework enough to understand what that does to a society and really what it means at its core. It now sounds to kids to be hip and cool and the new thing, and let's try it. We've tried everything else and it hasn't worked. But, strictly just speaking in terms of economics, if you're in this country and you have ambition and you work hard, you become successful, everything you need is right there in capitalism. So socialism as a construct is a flawed one, and it's going to be ultimately controlled by a small group of people who dictate to you what you need to do and how you need to live. But Islamism is dangerous on every single level. It is pure deception. It is demonic. And, listen, Muslims have an agenda, and that is to, buy something they call taqiya, which is the doctrine of I can lie to you to get you to think that I'm a certain way, but then I'm going to pull my mask off when it's convenient for me to gain control of you. that's what, that's what they will do. I mean, look, look, At Europe. they're already past the point of no return.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a scary deal for sure. Well, let's go to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. We have Scott on the line from Mississippi. Scott, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: We certainly are grateful to have patriot pastors like you two guys this morning. And thank y' all for being willing to share it such a time m. Of remembrance. And I, wish we, as I wish every church, every Christian, church could celebrate let's roll Sunday. Because that's what I remember most. the courage that Todd Beamer and the group around him had, when they, overtook the, evil and took, the plane down in a place where it would do less damage and, really, make a statement of courage that we so desperately need in our. In our Christian community today. I really feel like the government has failed us in so many ways, two of which is protection. I still have not heard anything, about the bringing. Bringing, about how. How people.
Caroline: How.
Caroline: How we are. How the perpetrators of 911 actually received expenses, training, and how to be a pilot. Being, without, any. Any red flags showing up. This could possibly be a problem. And I've never heard. The other problem is justice. Our government, we. We hear a lot of talk about injustice. And miss we. We have had a huge misplacement of justice, but we've not had proper justice brought anywhere along the line that I'm aware of.
: Yeah, let me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Let me pick up on that, Scott. Skip, you know, not just with 9 11, but with all this stuff that we've been hearing. This has been frustrating. So Ilhan Omar, we hear about things. We hear about the fraud in Minnesota that's just off the chain. And then you don't hear about it anymore. It's like, good night. If I don't do my taxes right, they come after me. But it seems like these people are. They're high profile. the governor of Minnesota just seems as crooked as can be. Why is that guy not being indicted?
Skip Heitzig: Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I will say that the legal system has. Has something called due process. And, they uncovered the scams and now they have to prosecute them. Well, you know, it's been a year since Charlie Kirk's murder trial has been underway. So it takes a long time to gather evidence and to present it. And then you get two sides and they have their teams of people. So unfortunately, once you Put this. Once you uncover a scam and then you publicize it and we all hear about it, that's one thing. But then to get the due process enough down the road to indict takes some time. And so that's where we have to be a little patient with our legal system, because there's a lot of crooked people in this country that are in that legal system.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, for sure. Especially in judges and things like that. Well, Scott, I appreciate your comments. Thank you so much for calling in. And we have, David on the line from Florida. David, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I just have to go off in a different direction. I've been watching on, YouTube about, the generals, Christian generals of the past, and 90% of the ones I've heard of, they never went to seminary school. They never went to teaching schools to teach them who God is. They worked in coal mines and dug that broke rock. They worked in farmer fields. They were illiterate. But God rose up men that were not trained, and he trained them to be evangelists. It really amazes, me that we have so many prophets, we have so many evangelists, we have so many speakers, we have so many people that are supposedly anointed, but the churches are dead. Nothing's happening. Nobody. Nothing. Nothing's happening. And it's just. I get really frustrated and I get emotional, but I think God's, trying to tell us something with. I think when the towers got hit and the churches got filled, I think they went there, the gossip got boring. They stopped going to church again. They don't care about God. They don't care about Christianity. They just want to live their lives.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, you're breaking up a little bit, David. But, okay, Skip, that's true for a good portion of the people that just kind of flocked to church, and maybe for one or two weeks, and then they were gone. we were very disappointed to see that. You know, it's kind of. To me, it was like, what will it take to wake you up to the reality of life and death, heaven and hell, that God is real? did you have. As a pastor, were you, disheartened by what you saw after that?
Skip Heitzig: No, I expect it, and here's why. Jesus gave a parable, of a man who went out to sow seed. And it fell. The same seed fell on different types of soil. Some received it and bore forth great fruit. 30, 60, and 100 fold, 75% in that parable. Of the seed that went on other soils bore no fruit. That was long lasting fruit. It either was eaten up by the enemy immediately. So you got a lot of people come to church. They come to church and next week and then they don't come again after the crisis. But then you have some people that get very emotional and get very, you know, animated and we're gonna, I'm a believer now. But they last for a few months and they're gone. And then others get choked up by the world. Jesus gave the template and said that is going to happen. That's human nature.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well that's true. now skip your. Correct me if I'm wrong. But you're not. You would not call yourself a Calvinist, would you?
Skip Heitzig: No.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But now you believe some of the things.
Skip Heitzig: Jon, I don't think Calvin was a Calvinist.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Explain that.
Skip Heitzig: Five point Calvinism in its strictest form is a very rigid system. And Calvin, I mean he was a brilliant man, I think it was an attorney. he collated, and organized Christian truth in a very, in a very incredible way. However, if you look at a lot of the five five point Calvinists today, I think that Calvin would disagree with many of them on some of the points.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I don't think he ever taught unlimited atonement, which is, that's a big sticking point for a lot of people. I don't know if you follow on social media. So Jenna Ellis is on the program before me. She and Dinesh d' Souza were in a online X platform battle with Calvinists. And in my experience Calvinists like to argue, not all of them, but a lot of them. And it's just like, well, and then Dinesh went so far as to say he didn't even believe the P of tulip perseverance of the saints, which is like. Well that's definitely. I believe that once you're saved, you're saved forever. but you know, it's like you're not going to solve anything on the X platform regarding Calvinism.
Skip Heitzig: Right. Listen, I, and I, I like what Dinesh says. I really agree with a lot of his stuff, especially I've, I've heard it lately on Calvinism. I guess I consider myself a moderate Calvinist, a lot of it. I don't want to say that all those five points are all wrong. They're solid, good biblical truths. I believe in predestination. I believe in election. I also believe in choice and I believe that those two worlds intersect. And I believe that, you. You have to. The Scripture presents two different sides of this. He presents it from God's side that God predetermines and elects because he has foreknowledge. And then mankind also is involved in that process and meets God there at human volition. Ah, which is also involved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I've always. Revelation 20. I've never heard too much on this, but I make a big deal about this. So at the Great White Throne, judgment books were open, and another book is open, which is the Book of Life. And if your name's not found in the Book of Life, you were thrown into the lake of fire. And my question was, well, nobody. There's names in the Book of Life, so why open the Book of Life? I believe it's to show that Jesus died for everyone. Your name could have been in there. first Jon, chapter two. He himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Now, you didn't receive the love of the truth so as to be saved, and, and so you took pleasure in wickedness. But I think that that's a, a strong point at the Great White Throne Judgment, that, hey, I died for you, but you rejected it.
Skip Heitzig: Right? And I agree, I completely agree with you. But I really like the way Spurgeon put it. Spurgeon was a Calvinist, and, but he was, he was a fun Calvinist, and there's very few fun Calvinists. And, and the reason I like Spurgeon is he said, I believe that God has chosen in advance who he saves. The problem is he didn't tell me, and he told me to preach the gospel to every creature.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. All right, we have Jim, on the line from Arkansas. Jim, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: It won't take me but just a second. we were talking about, Republican, Democrat, Trump and the Democrats. Here's the. If you're going down a dirt road and it's getting muddy, I'm with Trump, and he's going to stay in the ruts and he's going to go on down that road, even though we get a little muddy. But if I get with those Democrats, we're going to slip off in the ditch and we can't get out, and that's it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's a good way to put it, Jim. So, would you agree with that assessment, Skip?
Skip Heitzig: You know, I always love these kind of homespun analogy. That was, that was fun. That was wonderfully.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Put, I think. Well, I would go so far as to say that you don't slip into that ditch. You slip into the abyss.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, you definitely can. You know, there was a time when you could be, in the Democratic Party and be a believer, but that was a long time ago. I don't know if you know that Billy Graham, you just had his voice. But he was a registered Democrat.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Skip Heitzig: And. And although he had not voted Democrat. Democratic. For the Democratic Party for some time, the old form of Democrats were. A lot of them were Bible believers. But that platform is long gone. The old Democrats are like modern Republicans in terms of policy.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, even. And Bill Maher is kind of. I mean, he would. He's, a liberal, but doesn't sound like it.
Skip Heitzig: Yeah, I mean, he. He realizes the Democratic Party he signed up for is not the same.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, Skip, thank you so much for being my guest. It's been a pleasure, my friend, and God bless you and keep those great sermons coming. Thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Go out today, Shine for Christ. Share what great things. Things the Lord has done for you. And guess what? God will use you as his witness. God bless you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11 with Pastor Skip Heitzig, reflecting on the tragedy that changed America and the importance of remembering what happened. They discuss the spiritual lessons of 9/11, the role of the church in times of crisis, the importance of preaching biblical truth, and the need for Christians to stand firm in their faith. Pastor Jeff and Skip also examine the changing culture, the importance of biblical values in public life, and the hope found in the Gospel. Above all, listeners are challenged to remember, remain faithful, and shine for Christ in a world that desperately needs truth.
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