Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Wednesday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff here. Hope you're having a good hump day so far. Wanted to read to you From Joel, chapter two. The prophet Joel, he says this beginning in verse 12. Yet even now, declares the Lord, return to me with all your heart, and with fasting, weeping and mourning, and rend your heart and not your garments. Now return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding in loving kindness and relenting of evil. Who knows whether he will not turn and relent and leave a blessing behind him, even a grain offering and a drink offering. For the Lord your God, blow a trumpet in Zion, consecrate a fast, proclaim a solemn assembly. Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children and the nursing infants. Let the bridegroom come out of his room and let the bride out of her bridal chamber. Let the priests, the Lord's ministers, weep between the porch and the altar. And let them say, spare your people, O Lord, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, a byword among the nations. Why should they among the people say, where is their God? What a great passage of scripture. Hey, if we'll do what the Lord is saying through the prophet Joel, if we'll rend our heart and not our garment, if we'll really get our hearts right with God, if our, pastor and churches will do that, no telling what would happen in America. There would be a sweeping revival that would come. Well, this morning I am pleased to welcome my friend Dr. Willie Rice, the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida, and the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He's the 66th president of the Southern Baptist Convention. I'm going to get Willie a hat that, like, President Trump wears. It has 66 on there. And, Willie, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Dr. Willy Rice: It's good to be back with you, Jeff. Thank you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I appreciate, you coming on. I know you've been extremely busy, and, last week was a busy week, being in Nashville to address the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention. And you and I had talked a little bit about, that can be kind of a scary endeavor. You know, I've always kind of said I'd much rather preach to the church than preach at seminary chapel, where you feel like you're getting graded and that kind of thing. And so tell me, from a. From a pastor's perspective, how did that feel for you?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, you know, ah, it, As you know, Jeff, the executive committee is what happens between the Southern Baptist Conventions every summer. And, there's a, you know, about, I don't know, 60, 70 people, I suppose, on the committee from all over the country. And then you have in the back kind, of in a gallery area, you know, you have many, many SBC leaders, entity heads, state convention executives. And so for. So you have a group. And of course, then people are watching, press is watching. So you're not just speaking to the room, you're speaking through the room. And, you know, look, there are many good people on the executive committee. I'm getting to know them. part of being the president is that you actually are a member of the executive committee. but I also knew that, you know, some of the things that I was going to share, maybe not all of them agree with. you know, they're probably not all, you know, voted for me necessarily. And that's okay. That's part of it. they're an aggregate of over the people who have come to that position over the last several years. And these are all good people who want to serve the Lord and serve their churches. but I also knew I was going to say some things. You know, different presidents, I suppose, approach it different ways, Jeff. Some approach it kind of ceremonially. They give a. Just a nice sermon that, you know, everybody's going to be fine with, kind of a devotion. I felt like it was important to kind of set the agenda for where I was going to go and what I felt like was facing the sbc, so we talked about some of the big issues, and, you know, it's like talking to a room where, you know, not everybody is going to agree with you. And, And so it is much different than maybe preaching in your own church.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so I was thinking to myself as you put that together and you spoke for how, 40 minutes?
Dr. Willy Rice: Some, you know, I didn't time it, but that sounds about right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, was that different for you, putting that. That talk together? I. We, wouldn't really call it. Would we call that a sermon? It's kind of.
Dr. Willy Rice: I wouldn't. I mean, I, you know, I certainly, wove, some verses in there from Hebrews 12:1 and 2. I was actually using other verses and just days before changed. But it's not so much shamanic in that I didn't spend the time exegeting the text. I used the text, but it was more of a speech, you know, it's more of a speech that this is what we're facing and this is what we need to address as a convention.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: is that harder to put something like that together?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, I mean, it's a different kind of thing. I mean, there are similarities. It's still exhortational. It's still. You're trying to argue and be persuasive. and, you know, it's not that difficult to put together. The difficult thing was, you know, what I'm putting in and what I'm putting out, and so, And you're knowing every word is being weighed heavily.
Jeff Chamblee: Yes.
Dr. Willy Rice: So that was the difficult thing. And, you know, I was editing it right up to the end, because you're thinking, okay, I want to say this, but I won't say that. You know, what punches do you hold? What punches do you throw? Kind of, so to speak.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Okay, so on something like that, you're very careful to stay with the script.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, I am. Because, you know, you know that people are listening, the press is listening. Southern, Baptists are going to listen. They're going to quote it. They're going to quote it for weeks and months. You know, if you say something. If you say something that's, wrong or, you know, it stirs things up, then it's certainly going to be a matter of public record. So you have to be really careful. I did. I, you know, I had it written out and stayed pretty close to script.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so as you're putting that together, what are the Points that, you know this is going to hit a nerve.
Dr. Willy Rice: Well, you know, I think. And again, I'm not sure in all the executive committees, I haven't listened to all the presidential addresses there. I've listened to a few through the years. Look, I knew that, the Truth in Unity amendment, which was passed in Orlando and as you know, needs to be passed again next year in Indianapolis to become a constitution constitutional amendment. It's the amendment that deals with the issue of women pastors. I knew that, you know, not everybody's for that and I knew not everybody in that room would be for that. I mean, if you want to, if you go back, Jeff, the last two times an amendment of this type was on the table for the convention to consider in a second year. I believe I'm correct in saying. I know it happened. I believe it happened both times that the executive committee actually took a vote. And when that was presented to the convention that next summer, the executive committee was urging it not to be passed. And so I know that happened once. I think it happened both times. So I didn't know where that the executive committee changes over time. But the executive committee's position has been clear and some of the leaders in the executive committee, and I'm not any way disparaging their character or motives, but they've been clear, clear and being reluctant about this amendment. So, you know, you're walking into that room and maybe you don't have a majority of the people in that room that agree with you, but I felt like I needed to address that pretty early on and I needed to just say without equivocation, I'm for it, I'm working for it. You need to be working for it. And here's why. So that was something ah, I knew out of the gate we were going to address.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so Willie, when we think about like President Trump, you know, he talks about so many of these 80, 20 issues where obviously, Save America, the Save America act, we can't get it passed, but 80% of the country wants it passed. No biological males and female sports. I mean that's ah, a no brainer. Yet you have this other side that's pushing against that when it comes to the Southern Baptist Convention having an amendment that says that the office of pastor is reserved for a man, as is clear in scripture, that that's an overwhelmingly positive issue for the rank and file Southern Baptists. So if you're in the, I hate to use the term, but you're kind of in elite and you're in this leadership position in the Executive Committee. Do those guys not see that they're in the minority here?
Dr. Willy Rice: I think they do see that, and I think they, think, that it's going to pass. And I have been in private conferences, conversations, as well as public ones, advocating for it and encouraging them not to resist it. I want to be good faith in my arguments here. I don't want to disparage anyone who. I think, they're good people. I think they have concerns about the way we're going about it. they have concerns that, the Constitution is the appropriate way to address it. And, I don't find those arguments convincing, but that doesn't mean that they don't find them convincing, and it doesn't mean that they're not arguing them in good faith. Now, some people may not be arguing them in good faith, but I do think some people are. And I think you have people in administration who feel like, okay, we understand what you guys want to do. We just don't like this way of doing it. So I'm trying to listen, you know, rather than just, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, disparage them or call out their character. I'm trying to say, okay, I'm hearing your concerns now. Let's try to answer those concerns. And it's one of the reasons I appointed this Question Commission, to address the issue. It's not because I think it needed to be addressed from, like, ground zero or that we don't already know what we feel about this issue. But I felt like the commission gave us an opportunity, more than just the amendment, to answer some of the questions in good faith and to, you know, put those answers out there, that are going to be, needed, because these questions are going to be asked. So I think it's about trying to listen to their concerns and to, say, I hear you, but this still needs to be done. And it does need to be done.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Willie, where do we stand? I know you spent a significant amount of the speech talking about the sex abuse situation in the Southern Baptist Convention, and we hired Guidepost. I always get them confused. Not Guidestone, but Guidepost. and a lot of people had serious questions, issues. They were upset about that. How much money did we spend with these people? What did they find? really, they found nothing that we didn't already know. Unless there's. I'm missing a piece of information here, but, that seemed to be, as you said, and I would imagine Every pastor, hopefully every Christian, would agree with you. Any kind of sexual abuse is horrendous. Thom Askel said, hey, when there's a crime committed, you get the police involved. I mean, we're not cops and investigators. but it seems to me that all the guidepost thing was, let's spend a whole lot of money to just find out that we didn't really have an issue that we didn't already know about.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, you know, I did address it in the speech out of the gate, and I did that thoughtfully and intentionally. Two things are true here. One is that sexual abuse is a real threat. it's the number one reason churches end up in court for decades. and, it's not a church problem, a Baptist problem. It's a human being problem. I mean, you name a place where children are gathered, and, then there are always going to be, predators who need to be stopped. Sexual abuse is a real issue. No one should hear us saying any different. And I've never said any different. I'm sure you've never said any different. Every pastor, every spiritual leader should care deeply about this, and we should want to make our churches as safe as possible. And if you go back decades, there are plenty of things we didn't know, and there are plenty of things that maybe we should have known better. And there are tools we have today in our arsenal in terms of training and protection and that we didn't have 20 or 30 years ago. So I'm thankful for that. The problem in this movement is not that I've said often, if we had kept our focus on stopping predators and protecting children, there would have been no disunity, and we would have gotten so much more done. The problem came in how we responded to this concern and how it was. And I've used the word, some people don't like it, how it was weaponized in certain ways against the Southern Baptist Convention. And I've used that word because I believe it absolutely was. And if you want to look at many of the lawsuits that are happening today, it isn't because so much of sexual abuse, but how we responded to it. So we can at the same time say this is a serious threat. We want to respond seriously, rightly. And I think Southern Baptists have done a whole lot, and that's what I talked about in our speech, and we're doing a lot, and I want us to do a lot. At the same time, we need to recognize that some of the decisions we made were not wise and, have opened the door to some, some real issues that we're still dealing with. So we have to address issues, but we have to address them wisely, legally, and, in a way that is both biblically and legally informed. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, we're talking to Dr. Willie Rice, Pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida. He's been the pastor there since 2004. He's the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He was voted in in June in our last convention. And, looking forward to the next convention coming up next June in Indianapolis. And, I have great respect for Dr. Willie Rice and, just how the Lord has used him over the years and how he is using him, for such a time as this. So you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here on American Family Radio. We'll be right back after the break with more Willie Rice.
: This July we celebrate the birth of our nation and remember the heroes who fought for our freedoms. But did you know there are Americans today who don't have the freedom of life and liberty? Every day, unborn babies very lives are under attack. But because of preborn, we can rescue them.
Speaker F: I got to hear and see my baby for the first time. Hearing the heartbeat made me cry, and it was certain that I was going to keep my baby forever.
: Ultrasounds save lives. And when you save a life at a PreBorn Network clinic, you often save a Soul, as over 85,000 women have come to know Christ. To learn more about preborn's life saving work, call £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250 baby. Or visit preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr all gifts are tax deductible. Your love can save a life.
Jeff Chamblee: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Dr. Willie Rice, the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida, and the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And he just last week spoke to the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is really the committee that handles all the business, on the day to day. And, that president's address is a big deal, as you said. Willie, you have press there. You have lots of, people in charge, of the SBC entity heads and things. And there I, think there are probably some people that are hoping that you'll stumble, and there are others like me that are, you know, saying, go get them. you know, we're behind you. And I hope you know that as Eli, Elisha told his servant, there are more with us than with them. And so that's good to remember. But you brought up about a new article in the Baptist Faith and Message about two genders. it seems like a no brainer, but in today's world I think that's necessary. How was that point received?
Dr. Willy Rice: Thank you. Yeah, it's something, as you know, we talked about before the election. And so, you know, I did it, and have put it out there. and it basically says we should put in our statement of faith this article on gender and sexuality. And I shouldn't have it just right in front of me, but it basically just says that gender is a matter of biology. It's a matter of God's providence. It's not fluid. There's male and female and then a statement that, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman and is the only context that God has created for sexual expression and so forth. So it's a statement about both marriage and gender. And I think it's important. my argument is that when you look at the last quarter of a century, both those issues have been under attack in ways that while we might have foreseen it a little bit when the Baptist faith and message was last revised significantly in the year 2000, the last 26 years have been a breathtaking attack upon those fundamental issues of creation and truth. I feel like this is, to use your words, a no brainer that Southern. This is who Southern Baptists are. This is not just who Southern Baptists are. This is what the Bible teaches and this is what Christian people believe. And I think the issue warrants something so significant as opening up the Baptist faith and message and adding an article or an amendment to the article. It was. So the process right now I brought it to the executive committee. I'm hoping that the executive committee will bring it out as a recommendation to the convention next summer. And it should be a discussed item when the executive committee next meets in February. It was brought out for discussion. This time the subcommittee that dealt with it had a long discussion. I, was actually not in there when they were having the discussion. but they were having a very. They had a discussion about it. I think they're just now seeing it for the first time. so it's hard for me to answer Your question directly, how was it received? I don't know that it was received warmly or coldly. I think it was just received. And I think again that the hesitancy, I want to say, will not be on the substance of, the article. Everyone will agree with that. I think it will be on the process. Does this warrant adding an article of the Baptist faith and Message? So, I hope that in February, it will be, brought to the convention, after that February meeting. And we'll just have to watch and see, but hopefully the executive committee will go. This is a, this is something that would unify Southern Baptists, and I think it's an important statement to our people and to the world that's watching.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, well, if, if you look, the SBC is huge. I think it's hard for lots of people to understand all the inner workings and all that. So I always like to boil it down to, okay, just think of it like a church. And we want to have transparency at the church. If you have people in the church that are asking questions about the finances, if you cover that up, that's going to hurt you. That's not going to help you. Obviously we need, as pastors, we need to be making sure we're doing everything above board, nothing shady, that kind of thing. Well, if you look at the SBC like a church, how is the church doing?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, and part of the problem is that it's not a church, you know, it's, it's, you have these entities and so we kind of, you know, as pastors. It's a great question. I'm not in any way disparaging the question, but at the same time you have to recognize these are huge non profit legal entities. and, so sometimes what you do at a church, there needs to be some extra, processes in place because you're dealing with, you know, massive amounts of money and, infrastructure and so forth. but it's a fair question nonetheless. And here's what I would say as, as leaders of churches, if you lose the trust of your people, you're sunk. You're sunk. And you can debate all day long about what information should be available to who and when. Okay. almost nobody thinks that every single piece of financial data should be available to every single person all the time, particularly as the organization gets larger and larger and you're dealing with multiple salaries and, sometimes very complex things. However, there does need to be adequate transparency. And if in a church setting, church people start asking questions and they don't get straight answers. They're going to get nervous real fast. What I am saying is not that every single piece of personal data needs to be released publicly. I don't think anybody's saying that. But we need to win the trust of our people back. And while there, you know, a lot of people trust our entities. As I, as I, you know, went around talking to people, and even since becoming, you know, before the presidency and even since becoming president, there's been some erosion of trust. And if you look at some of the decisions over the last decade, you understand why we got to win that back. So when people start asking questions, what we can't do is just show them our hand and say, no, you don't get to. You don't get to ask that question. That's a non starter. We don't get to use that kind of language. we have to say, okay, why are you asking that question? What is it you need to know? And if they're asking for something and you go, okay, that's not the best way for us to deal with this. You got to see behind the question, what is it they need to know? So I think there are some common sense proposals we can work on which could help restore trust that we know. Okay. I think Southern Baptist people want to know, Jeff, that our entities get it, that they are accountable to the churches and the people. They need to understand you're accountable. Southern Baptists don't work from the top down. We work from the local church out. And the Southern Baptist Convention is healthiest when it's led by local churches and local church pastors, not by entities and executives. So we need to work on some proposals that will help send that kind of a message.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Willie, what do you say when you think about the. Whatever. We got 45, 46,000 churches. Most of those churches are relatively small. Couple hundred, something like that. And we have massive churches. Prestonwood Second Baptist said they had 90,000, Second Baptist Houston, 90,000. They don't have that anymore with all that's going on there. But, these huge, huge churches, the pastors, the guys that you're rubbing shoulders with as you go out to these cities, they're guys that are wanting to do a good work for the Lord, but it's much, much smaller. They can't fathom having thousands and thousands of people. and the sad reality is we're not seeing a lot of baptisms as a convention, you know, across the board. Many churches. I pastored a church when I was in seminary. They hadn't had a baptism in, in years. I appreciated the emphasis you made about every Christian needs to be witnessing we need to share the gospel. Do you think that we've just gotten away from that? Why, why are we seeing such a decline in the in baptisms, people trusting Christ and the excitement about man. God is doing a work here.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, well, you're right. To identify a problem, I will say there are, at the same time some encouraging signs about baptisms the last two years and even attendance. And we're still watching those Trends. The overall 2025 year trend is not good, but the last year or two actually is good. Now is that a post Covid balance? Is that going to continue? Is that sustainable? We're not sure. But you know, we can be grateful for what we see. And even at where we are, remember, Southern Baptists are winning lots of people to Christ and a lot of churches are doing great work. So it's neither half, it's neither completely full or completely empty. It's a mixed picture. But you're right to identify the concern about evangelism and growth. There are trends that we're facing that are both demographic, you're facing cultural wins. There are a number of things that are happening that you and I have no control over. What we do have control over is our obedience, while we have a control over is whether or not we're going to be faithful to the gospel. And I'm a big believer. I can't control what I can't control. I can't control where the wind blows. I can't control demographic trends. I can't control. You know, that's stuff I can't control. But you know what we can do? We can focus on the Great Commission again. And one of the biggest, the most important things I want to do in this presidency is highlight what I'm calling Great Commission 2000, which is to rally Southern Baptist. To begin now to point to the 2000th anniversary M of the giving of the Great Commission, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and the commission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, which will be more or less in 2033. Hard to be exact, but somewhere around 2033 we're going to celebrate that. And I want Southern Baptist to put, put a date on the calendar, put a target on the wall and say, you know what? Let's find who will go to work with us. Maybe 47,000 churches won't, but maybe 10,000 will or maybe 5,000 will. Imagine if 10,000 churches trained 100 members each. That's a million people that would be equipped for the Great Commission. A million people can turn the direction of a country, and, if they were truly motivated. So you don't need a majority. You just need a committed minority, and that's a pretty committed group. We could do that, and we could set a goal. How are we going to share the gospel with every person in North America? Through media, through local churches, through everybody. Engaging. And how can we set a goal that by the 2000th anniversary of the Great Commission, we could engage every unengaged people group on the face of the earth? I think if Southern Baptist churches will get focused again on the Great Commission task, I believe other gospel groups will come alongside it. I believe the Holy Spirit is going to stir them up anyway, and I believe perhaps our courage and intentionality will inspire others. And, you know, I can't control the results, but we do get to control our obedience, whether we will obey God. And I hope Southern Baptist will get serious about this Great Commission task that is before us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Willie, I want to talk to you, especially as it relates to pastors, addressing their churches. We have a big midterm election coming up. I hate it in Florida that Ron DeSantis can't just be governor forever. Best, governor. Maybe the.
Dr. Willy Rice: So do I, brother. I promise you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Best governor the country's ever seen. He make a great president. but there's a lot at stake. And, I'm starting a new series in just a week called Religion and Politics. And I've already gotten, some pushback. Don't talk about this. How do you see that in terms of pastors that, you know, in the nation's founding, in the revolution, it was pastors that were leading the churches to say, we need to get involved. what would be your word to pastors today about. Guys, you can't sit on the sidelines on this.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, just that. You can't sit on the sidelines. It's time to speak. You're right. If you read. And I read some books on the revolution this summer, given the historic nature of it, 250th anniversary, and again, was reminded how much pastors. I mean, if you think you shouldn't bring politics in the pulpit, you wouldn't. Like some of the pastors around America's founding, they were preaching, they were exhorting their people in overtly political ways. I don't like partisanship in the pulpit. I don't like promoting like, you know, just overtly partisan agendas in terms of, you know there are a lot of things Christians can disagree on and I can, I understand that. But there are some issues that are fundamental to truth and fundamental to the health of culture, fundamental to a gospel movement. And if you believe the Bible, you're just going to come down on one side of those. They're non negotiable issues for Bible believing Christians. And this idea that was imported into the evangelical church over the last 20 some years, particularly in the first 20 years of this century, that in order to be missiologically effective, you should not be confrontational or political in the pulpit. That has done great, great damage. What it did is it silenced, it didn't silence the left, Jeff. They had no intention of being silent. It silenced Bible believing, convictional Christian pastors who were taught, well you shouldn't talk about these things. For instance, right now, I was sent, met with some brothers in Virginia. Virginia is facing two critical amendments that deal with abortion and fundamental issues. And pastors are trying to rally, and speak out about this issue. I talked to two Virginia pastors and they said yeah, the odds are against us. I, I just don't know you were facing all that D.C. and North Virginia. I said well is there any hope you win? I asked him that. I said is there any hope you win? And they said only if pastors will start speaking out. and he said, and you know, sadly some pastors are just afraid to speak. you can't be afraid to speak. These are, these are issues not about elect Jon instead of Bob. These are issues about abortion, about life, about truth, about marriage. And pastors need to absolutely lean in and speak out.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Yeah, boy, that gets me fired up because I'm like, you got to stand up and be counted. If people don't like it, so what, you know, it's thus says the Lord. God's prophets were not popular and I don't really one of the things I like about you, many things. But you're not looking to win a popularity contest.
Dr. Willy Rice: Well, you know, gosh, we all struggle with the fear of man at some point. We all like applause. I mean pastors love applause. But boy, you weren't called to pursue applause. You know there was this. You've even had people in the last 20 years say we're not prophets. Literally we're not supposed to be prophets. If you want to be a gospel missionary, you're not prophet. I could quote you know exactly who said it and when. But there is a prophetic role in a gospel ministry. There is a moment when you stand up and say, this is true and this is not true. And we can't divorce the Old Testament from the new. We can't divorce a call to prophetically proclaim truth from the gospel call to bring the grace of God and tell people how to be saved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: oh, all right. Well, Dr. Willie Rice, we lost you there. Willie, thank you so much for being my guest today. And, I appreciate you, brother. Pray for you. And, so I, just encourage all our listeners, pray for Dr. Willie Rice as he leads the Southern Baptist Convention as our president, that God would use him mightily. You're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. We'll be right back after the break and take your calls.
Jeff Chamblee: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here. We'd like to open the phone lines in this last segment. 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-988. If you have a question or comment. Willie Rice had to go, but, I am here to, hopefully answer your questions. And so give me a call, and let's talk. We, we did talk as we started the program with Joel, chapter two. And that's just such a great passage of scripture, yet even now, declares the Lord, return to me with all your heart and with fasting, weeping and mourning, and rend your heart and not your garments. Now return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding, in loving kindness and relenting of evil. Now, I've said this before. When, the Lord revealed himself to Moses, and Moses prayed Exodus 32, Lord, if I had found favor in your sight, show me your glory. And God revealed his glory, the backside of his glory, the edges of his glory to Moses, as he hid him there in the face in, the cleft of the rock. And in Exodus 34, every Christian verses 6 and 7. Every Christian needs to know those verses because it's repeated over and over and over again in the Scripture. The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in loving kindness and truth, who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression, and sin, yet he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. That is God's, specific declaration of who he is. And that's him expressing his majesty and his glory and, his goodness. As he said to Moses, I'll make all my goodness pass before you, so look and see how many times that that is repeated in Scripture. Moses, when he prays to the Lord, in the Book of Numbers, he repeats that back to the Lord. Lord, you are compassionate, you are gracious. That's what you told me. That's who you are. Well, great to know. And listen, as we pray, as Willie Rice was saying, you can't sit on the sidelines. pastors, you got to stand up. You got to speak up. And especially as it relates to, elections in America, this midterm election, it is critical that, our churches, our people know, this is the issue that's at stake. And if we just, bury our head in the sand. Oh, I don't want to say anything because somebody might get upset. Well, listen, we're on this earth for such a time as this, and we need to stand up and speak up, and we need to be able to pass the baton of, a good and godly country, the land of the free and the home of the brave, to our children and to our grandchildren. And if we don't, all that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. And we dare not do nothing. And as the Bible tells us, Revelation 21:8, who is the first one listed in hell? The cowardly. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sorcerers and idolaters and immoral persons, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. We do not want to be in that category, obviously. Well, we're going to the phone lines, and we have Jason on the line from Texas. Jason, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hey, brother Jeff, thanks for taking my call. I know you're blessed. I'm blessed as well, brother.
Dr. Willy Rice: Good morning.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Good morning.
Caroline: I just want to tell you about a documentary that just came out about my grandpa. Okay. Called Crush Debt.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Crush Debt.
Caroline: Crush Debt. Right. And, it was about submarine, the USS Chopper. It was, doing a practice go, and the battleships were trying to find it. So it's submerged, and they lost all power, and it was going down, and, my grandpa. All the electric went out so they couldn't get a bell. Call Captain on what to do. My grandpa just made a decision after they reached about a thousand feet. I mean, submarines about to crush in, you know, implode. And, he ended up saving the submarine and all 66 souls on board. He just knew what to do, and he couldn't wait on an order to do it. It was getting way past time, and he just did it, you know, and it could have been court martial for it, but instead they gave him a medal. But, you know, it just reminds me of how many people today know what to do but are scared to do it because of a reaction or, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Yeah. We can't let fear keep us from doing what is right. As Willie said, you know, we all deal with the fear of man, but the Bible says the fear of man is a snare. But he who trusts in the Lord will be exalted. And so, well, hats off to your grandfather. how do people watch that documentary, Jason?
Caroline: It's on Amazon. Amazon Prime.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. And it's called Crush Depth.
Caroline: Four things. Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, well, very good. We'll check it out. God bless you, brother. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate, you listening to the program. We have, Dale on the line from Illinois. Dale, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, sir. Good morning. I thank you for taking my call.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, sir.
Caroline: My wife and I listen. My wife and I listen to you every morning. We really love your program.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Thank you.
Dr. Willy Rice: I need to.
Caroline: I need to have something cleared up in my mind. I do a lot of pulpit supply for Southern Baptist churches. Been a Southern Baptist for many, many years. And I don't understand why the Southern Baptist Convention leans so much on baptisms, not salvations. there could be a salvation without a baptism, without the opportunity for baptism. And that seems like we just.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We just lose that M. Yeah, a good question, Dale. I think the reason is, we would look at it this way. If a person really gets saved, the very first thing Jesus asks us to do once we trust him is, okay, now give a testimony of that through baptism. And so, you know, as I. My own brother, my oldest brother, when he got saved, I told him, I said, okay, Larry, now it's time to be baptized. And he didn't really want to do that. And I said, well, okay, here's the thing. If the very first thing that the Lord asks you to do, you say no to, then the question is, you know, as Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say? So I think in the Southern Baptist world, they look at baptism as, a, major, evidence that you really have been saved. Now, obviously we have people get baptized that aren't Christians and, that, you know, we don't want that. I've had a number of people over the years at First Baptist Texarkana that have come forward and said, you know, I got baptized when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, whatever it was, but it wasn't real. And here I AM Now, I'm 30 years old and I've really come to know Christ and I need to get my baptism in order. And so we have a certain amount of that. But I think it's really. Dale, just because that is a more solid, statement of faith that I really have put my faith and trust in Jesus. I didn't just raise my hand or check a box or pray a prayer. I followed this up. As James said, faith without works is dead being by itself. You show me your faith without the works, and I'll show you my faith by my works. So that would be a way that, faith is being shown, when the person goes through the waters of baptism.
Caroline: Okay, I understand. I just. Sometimes people can be saved, maybe not have the opportunity to be baptized. And I don't know, just seems like we, we lose that somewhere. There's, there's something that doesn't match there.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And you know, with most churches, they want people to be baptized in their church so that there's, there's a connection with the church and having a media ministry. I've had people that say, hey, you know, I watch you on T and can I be baptized at First Baptist Text Arcana, because this is where I came to know Christ through your ministry. And we don't tell them no, but it's better for them to have a local church because if they live hundreds of miles away from First Baptist Texarkana, they can't be involved. And, as much as we want to be able to help people, especially people that are shut ins and out and can't get out, that kind of thing because of health reasons, we want to be there for them, their TV church. But TV church is never, as good as actually being there. And so we want to really attach them to a church. But I appreciate the question, Dale. God bless you, brother. And thanks for listening to the program. We have Paul on the line from Texas. Paul, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, thank you. your guest raised a very excellent point about the, you know, whether you should, quote, get political as a pastor, namely the point that there is no basis or excuse for not dealing with an issue where politics has crossed line, contradicting God's morality like abortion and numerous other things. That is a great test. What I have to offer is a, ah, thought to listeners. I've been politically active all my life and you can tell a lot by what people say, what they don't say, what words and terminology they use. And I say this when you go to a church and your pastor says, I really don't want to get political, and they talk about none of the issues where you could vote on it that contradict God's laws, what you're really dealing with. And, and this is a spectrum, right? It's not binary like, oh, I'm a Satanist or a believer. But there's a spectrum of they don't want to deal with it because it contradicts their own view. It's like cognitive dissidents. You have a pastor who likes to vote for many Democratic candidates because maybe in their mind it's like, well, no, women should really have more roles in the church. Or gosh, you know, it's really government that's going to save all these poor people or whatever. And if they talked about it, then they're confronted themselves. It's like, oh, well, yes, I'm going to build a better world with these socialist Democrats. But at the same time, then how do I reconcile in my own mind that I'm voting for people that really like to butcher children with hormones and surgeries for the transition movement and then, you know, mefacristone, all the young women who get pregnant and slaughter unborn children. So you're really the real guiding, stone is if they really insist on silence, you're really dealing with a little bit varying on the scale of a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I strongly believe that. And when you're around one long enough, they'll give their position away who mostly by what they refuse to talk about. And then, you know, the stronger they pretend that it's a virtue, the more likely that you're dealing with a closeted leftist.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. I would agree with all that, Paul. you know, it's in our world today, we are here, as Mordecai told Esther, for such a time as this. And pastors today, Christians, but you know, in general, but pastors especially, you have to stand up and be counted. this one person that wrote to me and signed it concerned Christian about me doing a series, three part series on religion and politics. The Country's already divided. This person said, don't divide the church. Well, if the church is divided over the issue of abortion, then I have done a terrible job as the pastor, preaching the word of God. Abortion is evil. It is not a controversial subject, from the scripture. It is murder. And, last I checked, the sixth commandment said, you shall not murder. Transing kids is evil. That is satanic. that is rooted in, demonic ideology. That is rooted in insanity. that is, as I said yesterday, the devil says, well, if I can't kill them out of the womb or in the womb, then let me destroy their lives, by brainwashing their parents into believing all these sick, twisted, perverted ideas. And then they foist that on their kids. And this kid gets, these hormones when they're 10, 11, 12 years old and surgery like Chloe Cole, and you just wreck and ruin their lives. it is what the devil does. He comes only to steal and kill and destroy. So I would agree with you 100%. The time is now to stand up and speak up, and you just trust the Lord. You know, if we have to be like, Micaiah in the Old Testament, willing to stand alone. If we have to be like Steven and get stoned for speaking the truth in love as they stoned him to death in Acts, chapter seven, so be it. we have to be faithful to the Lord. And remember, with Steven, what did he say? I see, Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Jesus. When he ascended to heaven, he sat down at the right hand of God. And Steven saw him standing because Jesus was giving a standing ovation to the witness of Steven. I want to be a guy like that who's willing to give his life and then pray for those people. Lord Jesus, do not hold this, sin against them. And, Lord, here I give my life, to you. And it said, basically what Jesus said into your hands. I commend my spirit. we need pastors to stand up and speak up. I think that's one of the reasons that God has opened the door for me to. To be on the radio here on American Family Radio. Real truth for today is to speak to Christians and to speak to pastors. Hey, now is the time to stand up and speak up, and you let the chips fall where they may, but be faithful to the Lord. And, hey, if the world hates you, not a big surprise. Jesus said, if the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. So shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you. Speak the truth in love, and God will use you as his witness. God bless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Wednesday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff here. Hope you're having a good hump day so far. Wanted to read to you From Joel, chapter two. The prophet Joel, he says this beginning in verse 12. Yet even now, declares the Lord, return to me with all your heart, and with fasting, weeping and mourning, and rend your heart and not your garments. Now return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding in loving kindness and relenting of evil. Who knows whether he will not turn and relent and leave a blessing behind him, even a grain offering and a drink offering. For the Lord your God, blow a trumpet in Zion, consecrate a fast, proclaim a solemn assembly. Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children and the nursing infants. Let the bridegroom come out of his room and let the bride out of her bridal chamber. Let the priests, the Lord's ministers, weep between the porch and the altar. And let them say, spare your people, O Lord, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, a byword among the nations. Why should they among the people say, where is their God? What a great passage of scripture. Hey, if we'll do what the Lord is saying through the prophet Joel, if we'll rend our heart and not our garment, if we'll really get our hearts right with God, if our, pastor and churches will do that, no telling what would happen in America. There would be a sweeping revival that would come. Well, this morning I am pleased to welcome my friend Dr. Willie Rice, the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida, and the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He's the 66th president of the Southern Baptist Convention. I'm going to get Willie a hat that, like, President Trump wears. It has 66 on there. And, Willie, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Dr. Willy Rice: It's good to be back with you, Jeff. Thank you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I appreciate, you coming on. I know you've been extremely busy, and, last week was a busy week, being in Nashville to address the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention. And you and I had talked a little bit about, that can be kind of a scary endeavor. You know, I've always kind of said I'd much rather preach to the church than preach at seminary chapel, where you feel like you're getting graded and that kind of thing. And so tell me, from a. From a pastor's perspective, how did that feel for you?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, you know, ah, it, As you know, Jeff, the executive committee is what happens between the Southern Baptist Conventions every summer. And, there's a, you know, about, I don't know, 60, 70 people, I suppose, on the committee from all over the country. And then you have in the back kind, of in a gallery area, you know, you have many, many SBC leaders, entity heads, state convention executives. And so for. So you have a group. And of course, then people are watching, press is watching. So you're not just speaking to the room, you're speaking through the room. And, you know, look, there are many good people on the executive committee. I'm getting to know them. part of being the president is that you actually are a member of the executive committee. but I also knew that, you know, some of the things that I was going to share, maybe not all of them agree with. you know, they're probably not all, you know, voted for me necessarily. And that's okay. That's part of it. they're an aggregate of over the people who have come to that position over the last several years. And these are all good people who want to serve the Lord and serve their churches. but I also knew I was going to say some things. You know, different presidents, I suppose, approach it different ways, Jeff. Some approach it kind of ceremonially. They give a. Just a nice sermon that, you know, everybody's going to be fine with, kind of a devotion. I felt like it was important to kind of set the agenda for where I was going to go and what I felt like was facing the sbc, so we talked about some of the big issues, and, you know, it's like talking to a room where, you know, not everybody is going to agree with you. And, And so it is much different than maybe preaching in your own church.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so I was thinking to myself as you put that together and you spoke for how, 40 minutes?
Dr. Willy Rice: Some, you know, I didn't time it, but that sounds about right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, was that different for you, putting that. That talk together? I. We, wouldn't really call it. Would we call that a sermon? It's kind of.
Dr. Willy Rice: I wouldn't. I mean, I, you know, I certainly, wove, some verses in there from Hebrews 12:1 and 2. I was actually using other verses and just days before changed. But it's not so much shamanic in that I didn't spend the time exegeting the text. I used the text, but it was more of a speech, you know, it's more of a speech that this is what we're facing and this is what we need to address as a convention.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: is that harder to put something like that together?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, I mean, it's a different kind of thing. I mean, there are similarities. It's still exhortational. It's still. You're trying to argue and be persuasive. and, you know, it's not that difficult to put together. The difficult thing was, you know, what I'm putting in and what I'm putting out, and so, And you're knowing every word is being weighed heavily.
Jeff Chamblee: Yes.
Dr. Willy Rice: So that was the difficult thing. And, you know, I was editing it right up to the end, because you're thinking, okay, I want to say this, but I won't say that. You know, what punches do you hold? What punches do you throw? Kind of, so to speak.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Okay, so on something like that, you're very careful to stay with the script.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, I am. Because, you know, you know that people are listening, the press is listening. Southern, Baptists are going to listen. They're going to quote it. They're going to quote it for weeks and months. You know, if you say something. If you say something that's, wrong or, you know, it stirs things up, then it's certainly going to be a matter of public record. So you have to be really careful. I did. I, you know, I had it written out and stayed pretty close to script.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so as you're putting that together, what are the Points that, you know this is going to hit a nerve.
Dr. Willy Rice: Well, you know, I think. And again, I'm not sure in all the executive committees, I haven't listened to all the presidential addresses there. I've listened to a few through the years. Look, I knew that, the Truth in Unity amendment, which was passed in Orlando and as you know, needs to be passed again next year in Indianapolis to become a constitution constitutional amendment. It's the amendment that deals with the issue of women pastors. I knew that, you know, not everybody's for that and I knew not everybody in that room would be for that. I mean, if you want to, if you go back, Jeff, the last two times an amendment of this type was on the table for the convention to consider in a second year. I believe I'm correct in saying. I know it happened. I believe it happened both times that the executive committee actually took a vote. And when that was presented to the convention that next summer, the executive committee was urging it not to be passed. And so I know that happened once. I think it happened both times. So I didn't know where that the executive committee changes over time. But the executive committee's position has been clear and some of the leaders in the executive committee, and I'm not any way disparaging their character or motives, but they've been clear, clear and being reluctant about this amendment. So, you know, you're walking into that room and maybe you don't have a majority of the people in that room that agree with you, but I felt like I needed to address that pretty early on and I needed to just say without equivocation, I'm for it, I'm working for it. You need to be working for it. And here's why. So that was something ah, I knew out of the gate we were going to address.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so Willie, when we think about like President Trump, you know, he talks about so many of these 80, 20 issues where obviously, Save America, the Save America act, we can't get it passed, but 80% of the country wants it passed. No biological males and female sports. I mean that's ah, a no brainer. Yet you have this other side that's pushing against that when it comes to the Southern Baptist Convention having an amendment that says that the office of pastor is reserved for a man, as is clear in scripture, that that's an overwhelmingly positive issue for the rank and file Southern Baptists. So if you're in the, I hate to use the term, but you're kind of in elite and you're in this leadership position in the Executive Committee. Do those guys not see that they're in the minority here?
Dr. Willy Rice: I think they do see that, and I think they, think, that it's going to pass. And I have been in private conferences, conversations, as well as public ones, advocating for it and encouraging them not to resist it. I want to be good faith in my arguments here. I don't want to disparage anyone who. I think, they're good people. I think they have concerns about the way we're going about it. they have concerns that, the Constitution is the appropriate way to address it. And, I don't find those arguments convincing, but that doesn't mean that they don't find them convincing, and it doesn't mean that they're not arguing them in good faith. Now, some people may not be arguing them in good faith, but I do think some people are. And I think you have people in administration who feel like, okay, we understand what you guys want to do. We just don't like this way of doing it. So I'm trying to listen, you know, rather than just, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, disparage them or call out their character. I'm trying to say, okay, I'm hearing your concerns now. Let's try to answer those concerns. And it's one of the reasons I appointed this Question Commission, to address the issue. It's not because I think it needed to be addressed from, like, ground zero or that we don't already know what we feel about this issue. But I felt like the commission gave us an opportunity, more than just the amendment, to answer some of the questions in good faith and to, you know, put those answers out there, that are going to be, needed, because these questions are going to be asked. So I think it's about trying to listen to their concerns and to, say, I hear you, but this still needs to be done. And it does need to be done.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Willie, where do we stand? I know you spent a significant amount of the speech talking about the sex abuse situation in the Southern Baptist Convention, and we hired Guidepost. I always get them confused. Not Guidestone, but Guidepost. and a lot of people had serious questions, issues. They were upset about that. How much money did we spend with these people? What did they find? really, they found nothing that we didn't already know. Unless there's. I'm missing a piece of information here, but, that seemed to be, as you said, and I would imagine Every pastor, hopefully every Christian, would agree with you. Any kind of sexual abuse is horrendous. Thom Askel said, hey, when there's a crime committed, you get the police involved. I mean, we're not cops and investigators. but it seems to me that all the guidepost thing was, let's spend a whole lot of money to just find out that we didn't really have an issue that we didn't already know about.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, you know, I did address it in the speech out of the gate, and I did that thoughtfully and intentionally. Two things are true here. One is that sexual abuse is a real threat. it's the number one reason churches end up in court for decades. and, it's not a church problem, a Baptist problem. It's a human being problem. I mean, you name a place where children are gathered, and, then there are always going to be, predators who need to be stopped. Sexual abuse is a real issue. No one should hear us saying any different. And I've never said any different. I'm sure you've never said any different. Every pastor, every spiritual leader should care deeply about this, and we should want to make our churches as safe as possible. And if you go back decades, there are plenty of things we didn't know, and there are plenty of things that maybe we should have known better. And there are tools we have today in our arsenal in terms of training and protection and that we didn't have 20 or 30 years ago. So I'm thankful for that. The problem in this movement is not that I've said often, if we had kept our focus on stopping predators and protecting children, there would have been no disunity, and we would have gotten so much more done. The problem came in how we responded to this concern and how it was. And I've used the word, some people don't like it, how it was weaponized in certain ways against the Southern Baptist Convention. And I've used that word because I believe it absolutely was. And if you want to look at many of the lawsuits that are happening today, it isn't because so much of sexual abuse, but how we responded to it. So we can at the same time say this is a serious threat. We want to respond seriously, rightly. And I think Southern Baptists have done a whole lot, and that's what I talked about in our speech, and we're doing a lot, and I want us to do a lot. At the same time, we need to recognize that some of the decisions we made were not wise and, have opened the door to some, some real issues that we're still dealing with. So we have to address issues, but we have to address them wisely, legally, and, in a way that is both biblically and legally informed. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, we're talking to Dr. Willie Rice, Pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida. He's been the pastor there since 2004. He's the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He was voted in in June in our last convention. And, looking forward to the next convention coming up next June in Indianapolis. And, I have great respect for Dr. Willie Rice and, just how the Lord has used him over the years and how he is using him, for such a time as this. So you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here on American Family Radio. We'll be right back after the break with more Willie Rice.
: This July we celebrate the birth of our nation and remember the heroes who fought for our freedoms. But did you know there are Americans today who don't have the freedom of life and liberty? Every day, unborn babies very lives are under attack. But because of preborn, we can rescue them.
Speaker F: I got to hear and see my baby for the first time. Hearing the heartbeat made me cry, and it was certain that I was going to keep my baby forever.
: Ultrasounds save lives. And when you save a life at a PreBorn Network clinic, you often save a Soul, as over 85,000 women have come to know Christ. To learn more about preborn's life saving work, call £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250 baby. Or visit preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr all gifts are tax deductible. Your love can save a life.
Jeff Chamblee: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to Dr. Willie Rice, the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida, and the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And he just last week spoke to the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is really the committee that handles all the business, on the day to day. And, that president's address is a big deal, as you said. Willie, you have press there. You have lots of, people in charge, of the SBC entity heads and things. And there I, think there are probably some people that are hoping that you'll stumble, and there are others like me that are, you know, saying, go get them. you know, we're behind you. And I hope you know that as Eli, Elisha told his servant, there are more with us than with them. And so that's good to remember. But you brought up about a new article in the Baptist Faith and Message about two genders. it seems like a no brainer, but in today's world I think that's necessary. How was that point received?
Dr. Willy Rice: Thank you. Yeah, it's something, as you know, we talked about before the election. And so, you know, I did it, and have put it out there. and it basically says we should put in our statement of faith this article on gender and sexuality. And I shouldn't have it just right in front of me, but it basically just says that gender is a matter of biology. It's a matter of God's providence. It's not fluid. There's male and female and then a statement that, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman and is the only context that God has created for sexual expression and so forth. So it's a statement about both marriage and gender. And I think it's important. my argument is that when you look at the last quarter of a century, both those issues have been under attack in ways that while we might have foreseen it a little bit when the Baptist faith and message was last revised significantly in the year 2000, the last 26 years have been a breathtaking attack upon those fundamental issues of creation and truth. I feel like this is, to use your words, a no brainer that Southern. This is who Southern Baptists are. This is not just who Southern Baptists are. This is what the Bible teaches and this is what Christian people believe. And I think the issue warrants something so significant as opening up the Baptist faith and message and adding an article or an amendment to the article. It was. So the process right now I brought it to the executive committee. I'm hoping that the executive committee will bring it out as a recommendation to the convention next summer. And it should be a discussed item when the executive committee next meets in February. It was brought out for discussion. This time the subcommittee that dealt with it had a long discussion. I, was actually not in there when they were having the discussion. but they were having a very. They had a discussion about it. I think they're just now seeing it for the first time. so it's hard for me to answer Your question directly, how was it received? I don't know that it was received warmly or coldly. I think it was just received. And I think again that the hesitancy, I want to say, will not be on the substance of, the article. Everyone will agree with that. I think it will be on the process. Does this warrant adding an article of the Baptist faith and Message? So, I hope that in February, it will be, brought to the convention, after that February meeting. And we'll just have to watch and see, but hopefully the executive committee will go. This is a, this is something that would unify Southern Baptists, and I think it's an important statement to our people and to the world that's watching.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, well, if, if you look, the SBC is huge. I think it's hard for lots of people to understand all the inner workings and all that. So I always like to boil it down to, okay, just think of it like a church. And we want to have transparency at the church. If you have people in the church that are asking questions about the finances, if you cover that up, that's going to hurt you. That's not going to help you. Obviously we need, as pastors, we need to be making sure we're doing everything above board, nothing shady, that kind of thing. Well, if you look at the SBC like a church, how is the church doing?
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, and part of the problem is that it's not a church, you know, it's, it's, you have these entities and so we kind of, you know, as pastors. It's a great question. I'm not in any way disparaging the question, but at the same time you have to recognize these are huge non profit legal entities. and, so sometimes what you do at a church, there needs to be some extra, processes in place because you're dealing with, you know, massive amounts of money and, infrastructure and so forth. but it's a fair question nonetheless. And here's what I would say as, as leaders of churches, if you lose the trust of your people, you're sunk. You're sunk. And you can debate all day long about what information should be available to who and when. Okay. almost nobody thinks that every single piece of financial data should be available to every single person all the time, particularly as the organization gets larger and larger and you're dealing with multiple salaries and, sometimes very complex things. However, there does need to be adequate transparency. And if in a church setting, church people start asking questions and they don't get straight answers. They're going to get nervous real fast. What I am saying is not that every single piece of personal data needs to be released publicly. I don't think anybody's saying that. But we need to win the trust of our people back. And while there, you know, a lot of people trust our entities. As I, as I, you know, went around talking to people, and even since becoming, you know, before the presidency and even since becoming president, there's been some erosion of trust. And if you look at some of the decisions over the last decade, you understand why we got to win that back. So when people start asking questions, what we can't do is just show them our hand and say, no, you don't get to. You don't get to ask that question. That's a non starter. We don't get to use that kind of language. we have to say, okay, why are you asking that question? What is it you need to know? And if they're asking for something and you go, okay, that's not the best way for us to deal with this. You got to see behind the question, what is it they need to know? So I think there are some common sense proposals we can work on which could help restore trust that we know. Okay. I think Southern Baptist people want to know, Jeff, that our entities get it, that they are accountable to the churches and the people. They need to understand you're accountable. Southern Baptists don't work from the top down. We work from the local church out. And the Southern Baptist Convention is healthiest when it's led by local churches and local church pastors, not by entities and executives. So we need to work on some proposals that will help send that kind of a message.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Willie, what do you say when you think about the. Whatever. We got 45, 46,000 churches. Most of those churches are relatively small. Couple hundred, something like that. And we have massive churches. Prestonwood Second Baptist said they had 90,000, Second Baptist Houston, 90,000. They don't have that anymore with all that's going on there. But, these huge, huge churches, the pastors, the guys that you're rubbing shoulders with as you go out to these cities, they're guys that are wanting to do a good work for the Lord, but it's much, much smaller. They can't fathom having thousands and thousands of people. and the sad reality is we're not seeing a lot of baptisms as a convention, you know, across the board. Many churches. I pastored a church when I was in seminary. They hadn't had a baptism in, in years. I appreciated the emphasis you made about every Christian needs to be witnessing we need to share the gospel. Do you think that we've just gotten away from that? Why, why are we seeing such a decline in the in baptisms, people trusting Christ and the excitement about man. God is doing a work here.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, well, you're right. To identify a problem, I will say there are, at the same time some encouraging signs about baptisms the last two years and even attendance. And we're still watching those Trends. The overall 2025 year trend is not good, but the last year or two actually is good. Now is that a post Covid balance? Is that going to continue? Is that sustainable? We're not sure. But you know, we can be grateful for what we see. And even at where we are, remember, Southern Baptists are winning lots of people to Christ and a lot of churches are doing great work. So it's neither half, it's neither completely full or completely empty. It's a mixed picture. But you're right to identify the concern about evangelism and growth. There are trends that we're facing that are both demographic, you're facing cultural wins. There are a number of things that are happening that you and I have no control over. What we do have control over is our obedience, while we have a control over is whether or not we're going to be faithful to the gospel. And I'm a big believer. I can't control what I can't control. I can't control where the wind blows. I can't control demographic trends. I can't control. You know, that's stuff I can't control. But you know what we can do? We can focus on the Great Commission again. And one of the biggest, the most important things I want to do in this presidency is highlight what I'm calling Great Commission 2000, which is to rally Southern Baptist. To begin now to point to the 2000th anniversary M of the giving of the Great Commission, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and the commission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, which will be more or less in 2033. Hard to be exact, but somewhere around 2033 we're going to celebrate that. And I want Southern Baptist to put, put a date on the calendar, put a target on the wall and say, you know what? Let's find who will go to work with us. Maybe 47,000 churches won't, but maybe 10,000 will or maybe 5,000 will. Imagine if 10,000 churches trained 100 members each. That's a million people that would be equipped for the Great Commission. A million people can turn the direction of a country, and, if they were truly motivated. So you don't need a majority. You just need a committed minority, and that's a pretty committed group. We could do that, and we could set a goal. How are we going to share the gospel with every person in North America? Through media, through local churches, through everybody. Engaging. And how can we set a goal that by the 2000th anniversary of the Great Commission, we could engage every unengaged people group on the face of the earth? I think if Southern Baptist churches will get focused again on the Great Commission task, I believe other gospel groups will come alongside it. I believe the Holy Spirit is going to stir them up anyway, and I believe perhaps our courage and intentionality will inspire others. And, you know, I can't control the results, but we do get to control our obedience, whether we will obey God. And I hope Southern Baptist will get serious about this Great Commission task that is before us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Willie, I want to talk to you, especially as it relates to pastors, addressing their churches. We have a big midterm election coming up. I hate it in Florida that Ron DeSantis can't just be governor forever. Best, governor. Maybe the.
Dr. Willy Rice: So do I, brother. I promise you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Best governor the country's ever seen. He make a great president. but there's a lot at stake. And, I'm starting a new series in just a week called Religion and Politics. And I've already gotten, some pushback. Don't talk about this. How do you see that in terms of pastors that, you know, in the nation's founding, in the revolution, it was pastors that were leading the churches to say, we need to get involved. what would be your word to pastors today about. Guys, you can't sit on the sidelines on this.
Dr. Willy Rice: Yeah, just that. You can't sit on the sidelines. It's time to speak. You're right. If you read. And I read some books on the revolution this summer, given the historic nature of it, 250th anniversary, and again, was reminded how much pastors. I mean, if you think you shouldn't bring politics in the pulpit, you wouldn't. Like some of the pastors around America's founding, they were preaching, they were exhorting their people in overtly political ways. I don't like partisanship in the pulpit. I don't like promoting like, you know, just overtly partisan agendas in terms of, you know there are a lot of things Christians can disagree on and I can, I understand that. But there are some issues that are fundamental to truth and fundamental to the health of culture, fundamental to a gospel movement. And if you believe the Bible, you're just going to come down on one side of those. They're non negotiable issues for Bible believing Christians. And this idea that was imported into the evangelical church over the last 20 some years, particularly in the first 20 years of this century, that in order to be missiologically effective, you should not be confrontational or political in the pulpit. That has done great, great damage. What it did is it silenced, it didn't silence the left, Jeff. They had no intention of being silent. It silenced Bible believing, convictional Christian pastors who were taught, well you shouldn't talk about these things. For instance, right now, I was sent, met with some brothers in Virginia. Virginia is facing two critical amendments that deal with abortion and fundamental issues. And pastors are trying to rally, and speak out about this issue. I talked to two Virginia pastors and they said yeah, the odds are against us. I, I just don't know you were facing all that D.C. and North Virginia. I said well is there any hope you win? I asked him that. I said is there any hope you win? And they said only if pastors will start speaking out. and he said, and you know, sadly some pastors are just afraid to speak. you can't be afraid to speak. These are, these are issues not about elect Jon instead of Bob. These are issues about abortion, about life, about truth, about marriage. And pastors need to absolutely lean in and speak out.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Yeah, boy, that gets me fired up because I'm like, you got to stand up and be counted. If people don't like it, so what, you know, it's thus says the Lord. God's prophets were not popular and I don't really one of the things I like about you, many things. But you're not looking to win a popularity contest.
Dr. Willy Rice: Well, you know, gosh, we all struggle with the fear of man at some point. We all like applause. I mean pastors love applause. But boy, you weren't called to pursue applause. You know there was this. You've even had people in the last 20 years say we're not prophets. Literally we're not supposed to be prophets. If you want to be a gospel missionary, you're not prophet. I could quote you know exactly who said it and when. But there is a prophetic role in a gospel ministry. There is a moment when you stand up and say, this is true and this is not true. And we can't divorce the Old Testament from the new. We can't divorce a call to prophetically proclaim truth from the gospel call to bring the grace of God and tell people how to be saved.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: oh, all right. Well, Dr. Willie Rice, we lost you there. Willie, thank you so much for being my guest today. And, I appreciate you, brother. Pray for you. And, so I, just encourage all our listeners, pray for Dr. Willie Rice as he leads the Southern Baptist Convention as our president, that God would use him mightily. You're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. We'll be right back after the break and take your calls.
Jeff Chamblee: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here. We'd like to open the phone lines in this last segment. 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-988. If you have a question or comment. Willie Rice had to go, but, I am here to, hopefully answer your questions. And so give me a call, and let's talk. We, we did talk as we started the program with Joel, chapter two. And that's just such a great passage of scripture, yet even now, declares the Lord, return to me with all your heart and with fasting, weeping and mourning, and rend your heart and not your garments. Now return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding, in loving kindness and relenting of evil. Now, I've said this before. When, the Lord revealed himself to Moses, and Moses prayed Exodus 32, Lord, if I had found favor in your sight, show me your glory. And God revealed his glory, the backside of his glory, the edges of his glory to Moses, as he hid him there in the face in, the cleft of the rock. And in Exodus 34, every Christian verses 6 and 7. Every Christian needs to know those verses because it's repeated over and over and over again in the Scripture. The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in loving kindness and truth, who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression, and sin, yet he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. That is God's, specific declaration of who he is. And that's him expressing his majesty and his glory and, his goodness. As he said to Moses, I'll make all my goodness pass before you, so look and see how many times that that is repeated in Scripture. Moses, when he prays to the Lord, in the Book of Numbers, he repeats that back to the Lord. Lord, you are compassionate, you are gracious. That's what you told me. That's who you are. Well, great to know. And listen, as we pray, as Willie Rice was saying, you can't sit on the sidelines. pastors, you got to stand up. You got to speak up. And especially as it relates to, elections in America, this midterm election, it is critical that, our churches, our people know, this is the issue that's at stake. And if we just, bury our head in the sand. Oh, I don't want to say anything because somebody might get upset. Well, listen, we're on this earth for such a time as this, and we need to stand up and speak up, and we need to be able to pass the baton of, a good and godly country, the land of the free and the home of the brave, to our children and to our grandchildren. And if we don't, all that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. And we dare not do nothing. And as the Bible tells us, Revelation 21:8, who is the first one listed in hell? The cowardly. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sorcerers and idolaters and immoral persons, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. We do not want to be in that category, obviously. Well, we're going to the phone lines, and we have Jason on the line from Texas. Jason, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hey, brother Jeff, thanks for taking my call. I know you're blessed. I'm blessed as well, brother.
Dr. Willy Rice: Good morning.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Good morning.
Caroline: I just want to tell you about a documentary that just came out about my grandpa. Okay. Called Crush Debt.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Crush Debt.
Caroline: Crush Debt. Right. And, it was about submarine, the USS Chopper. It was, doing a practice go, and the battleships were trying to find it. So it's submerged, and they lost all power, and it was going down, and, my grandpa. All the electric went out so they couldn't get a bell. Call Captain on what to do. My grandpa just made a decision after they reached about a thousand feet. I mean, submarines about to crush in, you know, implode. And, he ended up saving the submarine and all 66 souls on board. He just knew what to do, and he couldn't wait on an order to do it. It was getting way past time, and he just did it, you know, and it could have been court martial for it, but instead they gave him a medal. But, you know, it just reminds me of how many people today know what to do but are scared to do it because of a reaction or, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. Yeah. We can't let fear keep us from doing what is right. As Willie said, you know, we all deal with the fear of man, but the Bible says the fear of man is a snare. But he who trusts in the Lord will be exalted. And so, well, hats off to your grandfather. how do people watch that documentary, Jason?
Caroline: It's on Amazon. Amazon Prime.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. And it's called Crush Depth.
Caroline: Four things. Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, well, very good. We'll check it out. God bless you, brother. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate, you listening to the program. We have, Dale on the line from Illinois. Dale, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, sir. Good morning. I thank you for taking my call.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, sir.
Caroline: My wife and I listen. My wife and I listen to you every morning. We really love your program.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Thank you.
Dr. Willy Rice: I need to.
Caroline: I need to have something cleared up in my mind. I do a lot of pulpit supply for Southern Baptist churches. Been a Southern Baptist for many, many years. And I don't understand why the Southern Baptist Convention leans so much on baptisms, not salvations. there could be a salvation without a baptism, without the opportunity for baptism. And that seems like we just.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We just lose that M. Yeah, a good question, Dale. I think the reason is, we would look at it this way. If a person really gets saved, the very first thing Jesus asks us to do once we trust him is, okay, now give a testimony of that through baptism. And so, you know, as I. My own brother, my oldest brother, when he got saved, I told him, I said, okay, Larry, now it's time to be baptized. And he didn't really want to do that. And I said, well, okay, here's the thing. If the very first thing that the Lord asks you to do, you say no to, then the question is, you know, as Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say? So I think in the Southern Baptist world, they look at baptism as, a, major, evidence that you really have been saved. Now, obviously we have people get baptized that aren't Christians and, that, you know, we don't want that. I've had a number of people over the years at First Baptist Texarkana that have come forward and said, you know, I got baptized when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, whatever it was, but it wasn't real. And here I AM Now, I'm 30 years old and I've really come to know Christ and I need to get my baptism in order. And so we have a certain amount of that. But I think it's really. Dale, just because that is a more solid, statement of faith that I really have put my faith and trust in Jesus. I didn't just raise my hand or check a box or pray a prayer. I followed this up. As James said, faith without works is dead being by itself. You show me your faith without the works, and I'll show you my faith by my works. So that would be a way that, faith is being shown, when the person goes through the waters of baptism.
Caroline: Okay, I understand. I just. Sometimes people can be saved, maybe not have the opportunity to be baptized. And I don't know, just seems like we, we lose that somewhere. There's, there's something that doesn't match there.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And you know, with most churches, they want people to be baptized in their church so that there's, there's a connection with the church and having a media ministry. I've had people that say, hey, you know, I watch you on T and can I be baptized at First Baptist Text Arcana, because this is where I came to know Christ through your ministry. And we don't tell them no, but it's better for them to have a local church because if they live hundreds of miles away from First Baptist Texarkana, they can't be involved. And, as much as we want to be able to help people, especially people that are shut ins and out and can't get out, that kind of thing because of health reasons, we want to be there for them, their TV church. But TV church is never, as good as actually being there. And so we want to really attach them to a church. But I appreciate the question, Dale. God bless you, brother. And thanks for listening to the program. We have Paul on the line from Texas. Paul, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, thank you. your guest raised a very excellent point about the, you know, whether you should, quote, get political as a pastor, namely the point that there is no basis or excuse for not dealing with an issue where politics has crossed line, contradicting God's morality like abortion and numerous other things. That is a great test. What I have to offer is a, ah, thought to listeners. I've been politically active all my life and you can tell a lot by what people say, what they don't say, what words and terminology they use. And I say this when you go to a church and your pastor says, I really don't want to get political, and they talk about none of the issues where you could vote on it that contradict God's laws, what you're really dealing with. And, and this is a spectrum, right? It's not binary like, oh, I'm a Satanist or a believer. But there's a spectrum of they don't want to deal with it because it contradicts their own view. It's like cognitive dissidents. You have a pastor who likes to vote for many Democratic candidates because maybe in their mind it's like, well, no, women should really have more roles in the church. Or gosh, you know, it's really government that's going to save all these poor people or whatever. And if they talked about it, then they're confronted themselves. It's like, oh, well, yes, I'm going to build a better world with these socialist Democrats. But at the same time, then how do I reconcile in my own mind that I'm voting for people that really like to butcher children with hormones and surgeries for the transition movement and then, you know, mefacristone, all the young women who get pregnant and slaughter unborn children. So you're really the real guiding, stone is if they really insist on silence, you're really dealing with a little bit varying on the scale of a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I strongly believe that. And when you're around one long enough, they'll give their position away who mostly by what they refuse to talk about. And then, you know, the stronger they pretend that it's a virtue, the more likely that you're dealing with a closeted leftist.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right. I would agree with all that, Paul. you know, it's in our world today, we are here, as Mordecai told Esther, for such a time as this. And pastors today, Christians, but you know, in general, but pastors especially, you have to stand up and be counted. this one person that wrote to me and signed it concerned Christian about me doing a series, three part series on religion and politics. The Country's already divided. This person said, don't divide the church. Well, if the church is divided over the issue of abortion, then I have done a terrible job as the pastor, preaching the word of God. Abortion is evil. It is not a controversial subject, from the scripture. It is murder. And, last I checked, the sixth commandment said, you shall not murder. Transing kids is evil. That is satanic. that is rooted in, demonic ideology. That is rooted in insanity. that is, as I said yesterday, the devil says, well, if I can't kill them out of the womb or in the womb, then let me destroy their lives, by brainwashing their parents into believing all these sick, twisted, perverted ideas. And then they foist that on their kids. And this kid gets, these hormones when they're 10, 11, 12 years old and surgery like Chloe Cole, and you just wreck and ruin their lives. it is what the devil does. He comes only to steal and kill and destroy. So I would agree with you 100%. The time is now to stand up and speak up, and you just trust the Lord. You know, if we have to be like, Micaiah in the Old Testament, willing to stand alone. If we have to be like Steven and get stoned for speaking the truth in love as they stoned him to death in Acts, chapter seven, so be it. we have to be faithful to the Lord. And remember, with Steven, what did he say? I see, Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Jesus. When he ascended to heaven, he sat down at the right hand of God. And Steven saw him standing because Jesus was giving a standing ovation to the witness of Steven. I want to be a guy like that who's willing to give his life and then pray for those people. Lord Jesus, do not hold this, sin against them. And, Lord, here I give my life, to you. And it said, basically what Jesus said into your hands. I commend my spirit. we need pastors to stand up and speak up. I think that's one of the reasons that God has opened the door for me to. To be on the radio here on American Family Radio. Real truth for today is to speak to Christians and to speak to pastors. Hey, now is the time to stand up and speak up, and you let the chips fall where they may, but be faithful to the Lord. And, hey, if the world hates you, not a big surprise. Jesus said, if the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. So shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you. Speak the truth in love, and God will use you as his witness. God bless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve welcomes Dr. Willie Rice, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church and president of the Southern Baptist Convention, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, faithfulness, and the mission of the church. They discuss the SBC’s current challenges, the Truth in Unity amendment, sexual abuse prevention and accountability, transparency and trust, and the need for churches to remain focused on the Great Commission. Dr. Rice also addresses the role of pastors in speaking about important cultural and public issues while avoiding partisan politics. Throughout the conversation, listeners are encouraged to stand firm on biblical truth, faithfully share the Gospel, and trust God with the results.
Live
Did you know American Family Radio is listener-supported? Your monthly financial support will allow us to continue upholding Godly values through our numerous channels, like American Family Radio, One Million Moms, The Stand magazine, and many more.
Become a Great Commission Partner TODAY to help AFR transform culture by rebuilding the family. When you donate today, you’ll get access to:
