Dr. Jessica Peck prescribes Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio

Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome, welcome, welcome to my favorite time of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. I am really glad to talk to you today. I hope wherever you are, whatever you're doing, that you're having a great day. And thanks for stopping by to listen in.

Today we are going to talk about seeing ourselves through the lens of scripture

Today we are going to be talking about seeing ourselves through the lens of scripture. Now this is a really important topic because every day we are bombarded with messages from culture about our bodies. Now, I know even saying the word body is probably making some of you think, okay, where are we going with this? What are we talking about? And for me as a nurse, I know that this can be a really uncomfortable topic, but we are are bombarded with these messages. Fix this. Change that. Fighting aging. Following the latest plan, Today we're going to talk with bestselling author, Bible teacher and podcast host Lisa Whittle. And she says, there's nothing wrong with your body. God made your body good like him. And in her new Bible study, Body and Soul, Lisa is offering a very countercultural vision, a whole body theology. Have you ever heard that phrase before? Whole, whole body theology that grounds our worth not in self perfection, but in being image bearers of God. And she has signature wit. She's hilarious. And a, bottom line approach. She's going to tell you like it is. Lisa is going to help us move beyond body projects and into body purpose. We're going to learn how to see our bodies through the lens of imago dei, made in the image of God and how that can bring us lasting peace and freedom and the joy of living well, the body that we already have. Lisa, so glad to have you back. It is always a joy to have you on the show.

>> Lisa Whittle: Oh, thank you so much. It's so good to be with you.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: It is so good.

You write a Bible study on body image and self esteem

And yesterday I was telling you that we had a show with Glenna Marshall, who was recently on Kirk Cameron's podcast, and you were just recently the co host of a season for Candace Cameron Bure that's going on now, talking about this very subject. And so this is something I know that everybody is thinking about. I think young people are talking about it a little bit more, but everybody is thinking about it because we see these messages coming to us from culture. We see cosmetic procedures, we see people talking about weight loss. Injections, about surgeries, about fillers, about laser treatments, anti aging products, I mean, dieting, all kinds of things. I mean you just go down the list and we are being marketed to continually. And this is on the minds of so many people. How did it come to the level for you where you said, okay, I'm going to write a Bible study about that?

>> Lisa Whittle: Well, yes, as you said, we're, we're talking about this a lot. It's not a new problem by the way. It's, you know, something that has been on our minds honestly forever. Body, body image, speaking about our bodies and talking about our souls as well. But I think we're at the level of exhaustion, overwhelm. Certainly I'm no exception to that. For me, the thing that came to a head for me was being tired of body positivity culture, which I knew was not enough to meet the deep needs and the deep aches of not only my soul, my story with my body, but so many as I've traveled across the country, across the world really, and spoken with so many people who carried a lot of body trauma and just really deep seated things and things that are even surface things that we deal with every single day. And so I did my own sort of investigative work and did a series of podcasts on your body deserves more than hype. Because I knew that body positivity culture would not be enough for any of us to bring lasting freedom and peace. And so did, did just really a series of shows on that. And knowing what I know as a Bible teacher in that every transformative work that I've had in my own life has been from a biblical perspective, has been from a biblical transformation. But yet for myself in all of my life had really never put the pieces together that my body would be included in that. And so really began to dig into scripture and search for a framework. Because all of my life I talked about, you know, I'd had body goals, I had body topics, but it never really had a belief system about my body that was foundational and so sought for a, theological underpinning that would help me be able to make decisions for my body. And that's really where it came from.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Yesterday, as I said, we were talking to Glenna Marshall about our identity and really these things come down to identity. And our conversation yesterday was all about the self esteem movement and ultimately why it failed. Because we can't fix self esteem just with self esteem. It has to be seen through the lens of scripture. You have to take into account that theological truth of imago dei, that we are created in the image of God. And so I can see this whole body positivity kind of parallel to that self esteem movement and thinking, yeah, it's not enough. And so I want to ask you about this phrase, whole body theology. I bet, like me, that's going to be a new phrase for a lot of people. And it sounds so like, of course God made our bodies. God made us body, mind and soul. I feel like we're much more comfortable saying that phrase together like body, mind and soul. Let's, let's focus on the mind, you know, because that's something that is a little more private, maybe a little more mysterious. But there are a lot of insecurities that we have about our body. And I see those manifested in so many ways, so many people. There really isn't anybody who isn't impacted in some way. So walk us through. What does it mean, whole body theology? And how does that tie to this being an actual Bible study for you?

>> Lisa Whittle: Yeah, whole body theology is what I am, terming as a biblical belief system of God's creation of us, in our entire personhood, body and soul. And I think you've really nailed it here, Jessica, when you're talking about how we have sort of compartmentalized this, we've compartmentalized ourselves. I think in the church we've said let's dive into our spiritual lives. When we've really done this sort of disservice to the idea that from scripture, not at least a widow idea or a, psychology idea or sort of this other. Right. But the, the creation of us, which is as a whole person. And so what I found to be true is that we love to sort of focus on aspects of ourselves. So some of us are very, focused on our spiritual lives to the detriment of our physical lives. I think even this genderized to a certain degree, like men are, they welcome maybe going to the gym, but they really don't want to touch the parts of their soul. Maybe they don't want to go to therapy and then vice versa. Maybe women say, well, I'm fine with going to a counselor, I see a counselor all the time. But then they really don't want to touch maybe the physical aspects of themselves. It also is non genderized where we are all sort of focused on work, or not focused on work. We don't see that part of ourselves as our embodied M life, our work life, our rest life, our sex life, all of It, Jessica, is of interest to God. And so this is not an area that the church is well discipled in because we haven't really understood it. And so when you look at who God created us to be, we're even comfortable saying we are created in the image of God in sort of this, spiritual speech, but we don't understand it at all. And so what has happened is body positivity culture and has sort of picked up on this idea of your body is good and love your body, love your body at any size, all of that, but it's devoid of the actual understanding of what it means to be created in the image of God. Or even the most famous verse in all of the Bible which talks about how are, your body as the temple of the Holy Spirit. When those things aren't attached to a true biblical theological understanding of, what that means and what that means for how you walk out and live out your whole embodied life, then you're going to live fractured. And so what I'm trying to introduce to us in whole body theology is building a foundation that most of us have never had. We just simply skipped the step. We didn't know we needed it. It wasn't available to us in the church. There's no shame here. There's no. I'm not, I'm certainly not scolding, us for us. What I'm scolding us for, not doing that. I'm saying, let's go back and do it now so that we have that belief system. Because the reality is we have a belief system for most everything else. How we build our families, politics, schooling for our kids. But most of us, if you say, what is your body belief system? We say, I want to lose ten pounds. Well, I just got on this new nutritional system that I'm kind of crazy about. But we don't have a belief system about who we are as a whole person. And that's really what it's about.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, and I appreciate that because in the Bible study, and this is a Bible study, you know, when you look at even the topics that you're covering, it starts with imago dei, just made in the image of God. And you walk through all of those biblical concepts and going back to looking at body positivity or the self esteem movement, the toxic ends of those movements are, hey, accept me as I am. I'm not taking any responsibility for anything. I am who I am. I made who I the way I am. Even in saying that, I feel like there's some you know, there, that is, that's really uncomfortable because that's just not the truth. There are some things that we have. There are some things in our minds that we, God tells us to take every thought captive, just like you said in our bodies. Our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit. It's not okay just to abuse our bodies or neglect our bodies, just like we can't abuse our own minds or neglect our own mental health. And I think that's really hard to do. But in this discomfort with, with body, our bodies, here's where I see this playing out the most. Lisa, I'm sure you've had this experience too. Just go anywhere, any family reunion, any graduation, any, anything, and just take a group picture or have somebody take a picture of somebody else. And you're going to see immediately some people who are going to hesitate, like, try to. How can I get out of this picture if I'm forced into the picture? How can I get into the back of the picture so that, you know, my body is hidden as much as possible? And, and then how many people are going to hand over their phone and say, like, oh, I don't like that. Immediately start to critique the way that their body looks, ask it for it to be retaken. Now I'm saying this, Lisa, because I have been that person. I definitely have. And I remember my daughter handing the phone back to me after taking a picture and saying, you're not going to like that. Now she didn't think, like, I'm not going to like what I was wearing or that I'm not going to like the way that my body looks in that picture. And so how do you see that? How have you experienced, you know, those struggles? Because we all have. And how do you see that manifesting? And where, where are you at on this?

>> Lisa Whittle: Yeah, I love this question so much, Jessica. This is a real time issue for us. And what I love about whole body theology is it doesn't live in this lofty space. It lives in the real world with us because we live in the real world with our bodies. And nothing in the Bible, nothing that, that, that God created is so far off that it does not relate to us. And I think that's the important thing, because I think what we think is, okay, you know, God, created us and he came to dwell with us and became embodied himself so that we would have this eternal life with Him. But we're on our own with our migraines or, you know, with our struggles or our body thoughts or whatever. And it couldn't be further from the truth, because whole body theology does not leave anybody out. It does not leave any scenario out. It is the most relatable thing that you'll ever know. And it also doesn't shame anyone. And if you can give me any other body process or anything you've been through in your life that can say that, then please tell me, because my whole life has been this series of like, how can I lose weight? How can I look thin in a picture? How can I, you know, all of that kind of stuff. How can I be pretty? How can I, you know, we all want that. Jessica. I don't live a perfect body story. I still don't. What I live is in freedom in a different way than ever. I have my entire life, and I'm not a young woman, by the way. And so me neither. What I've realized in my life is after the Lord has given me this foundation, so graciously shown me who I really am in my whole embodied self, what has happened for me is that those consuming body thoughts have gone away. It's not that I never look at a picture and say, gosh, you know, that's probably not the most flattering angle of me, because I'm a normal person, right? But it is one of those things where I now don't live with the same goals that I had because I understand who I am.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm gonna hold you right there because we're already at our first break, but so many more questions and so much more to talk about about this Bible study, Body and Soul with Lisa Whittle. Don't go away. We'll be right back after the break. I want you to picture this. Her name is Kayla. She is 17, alone, terrified and pregnant, sitting in a clinic, tears blurring, thinking abortion is her only option until she was offered a free ultrasound, paid for by a hero just like you. The moment Kayla heard her baby's heartbeat, the decision was made. And today, her little baby boy, Gabrielle, is thriving because preborn walked with Kayla every step of the way. Now multiply that by 38,000. That's how many babies preborn has helped save just this year. How many mothers preborn has come alongside with practical and spiritual resources to make motherhood possible. But here's the most important thing you will hear today. Their goal is to save 70,000 by the end of the year. And they can't do it without us. Every $28 provides that ultrasound. The moment everything changes, will you be the reason the next Kayla chooses life. The reason Gabrielle fulfills his destiny to donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or donate securely at preborn.com/AFR, that's preborn.com/AFR. but God only knows the real you.

>> God Only Knows by FOR KING + COUNTRY: There's a kind of love that God only knows.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is God Only Knows by for king and country. That's kind of what we're talking about today. God only knows what you've been through, what your body has been through. And we're talking about how do we see ourselves through the lens of scripture? and we live in a culture that really talks a lot about body shame versus body positivity. It definitely glorifies youth and constantly tells us we need to do more and be more. And it treats our body as a project, as something to perfect. Now I look at this and I see I cannot open social media, I cannot watch a show, I cannot go to a grocery store and see a magazine without some product that is marketed to me to improve my body. That is just the honest truth. Whether it's cosmetic things, anti aging products, whether it's a diet, a exercise regimen, a ah, detox, a cleanse, or just any endless fix that is there, that is what we see. But listen, what if our bodies aren't problems to solve, but they're part of God's good design and that is really the heartbeat of body and soul.

The newest Bible study from Lisa Whittle addresses body issues

The newest Bible study from Lisa Whittle. She is a best selling author of nine books, a sought after Bible teacher and host of the popular Jesus Over Everything podcast. And she draws us through scripture from the creation to the resurrection. I love how this Bible study is laid out because it walks you through all of those theological elements to reveal to us what it means to be fully known, fully loved and fully created for glory. She's honest, she's compassionate and a little bit feisty, which I love. Lisa. And you address everything in here from aging and infertility to chronic illness to trauma, all of the things that we see about our bodies that are really, really difficult to talk about. And you know Lisa, one of the things that I think is really ironic is we were talking in the first part of the program about how it's really hard for us to talk about these insecurities we have about our bodies. And yet whenever I go to church or any sort of prayer group, those are usually the first prayer requests that we have. But it's usually pray for someone who sick, who's in the hospital, who has cancer, who needs surgery, those kinds of things. Like those seem. So that's the socially acceptable parameters there. But those deeper insecurities we just don't talk about. And so as I'm sure you did a lot of research and preparing for this Bible study, what kind of struggles did you see and find that people were struggling with? Because we all have our own struggles. Did anything surprise you when you started to learn about how big this is?

>> Lisa Whittle: Oh, goodness, I don't know if it surprised me. I think it was, it's been validated over and over again how real the struggle really is and how, it has, it's just been a wounding that folks have carried their entire life. I think one of the great griefs for me has been how people have silently suffered, from so many things and how men have suffered because, you know, I think women and a lot of people assume that this is a female issue. However, it is very, very, much not just a female issue. So many men have suffered from abuse in their bodies that they have never ever uttered, it's much more common for women to reach out for help and go to counseling than it is for men. but men have been through a lot and haven't wanted to talk about it, and for a long, long time, because especially in the past, men didn't go to counseling. And so that's been real. Also. There's a lot of pressure on men. it's a different kind of pressure, but it is a pressure more, in the fitness realm, in the gym and those kinds of things. And so that's all very real. I Talked to my 24 year old son about that and these things are very real. Of course for women I think comparison is a huge issue. There's the pressure to keep up, just the overload that has been very prevalent for so many women. Saying I was already feeling so much overwhelmed just by feeling in my body, I needed to change this or fix that. Certainly women going through menopause are feeling feelings that we have never had before. And I put myself in that group because I'm in the middle of menopause. But I think, now it is on top of the way I'm feeling in my body and the pressure that I have on myself that I need to fix myself or look a certain way. Now I've got all of this information that is coming at me and do I, you know, what type of weighted vest do I get? Do I cold plunge? Do I shave my face? Do I, you Know, do I do all of this? And so it's this overwhelm of I can't possibly keep up and the information's always changing. So you add to that then maybe shame over decisions that we've made in our body in the past, things that have been done to us without our permission. I mean, Jessica, it is enormous.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: It really is. And I am really convicted about the whole marketing angle of this because I've seen this especially in young people and in the past when we're talking about some of the gender based stereotypes. You know, we see these solutions that are marketed to women because we can see that from a long time, right, Cosmetics. And that's one of the popular things I see on social media now is to look at some of those cosmetic ads maybe from the 1950s that were on television and see how much culture has changed. But we know that those things, those products have always been marketed to women, but now we see those products marketed to men. We see this big shift in men doing skincare and a trend called looks maxing that comes from actually the gaming world. That was really fascinating to me where you max a character trait and they're saying, hey, Max your, you know, your physical attributes. And you see that even in the clothing ads for men, like, oh, these shirts will show off your biceps or that kind of thing. But really the main thing is that marketing companies are trying to sell you a problem so that you'll buy their solution. And sometimes I feel like we don't even know that this is a problem until we're influenced by that marketing. And then all of a sudden it's a new insecurity. And I'm really convicted about the way that we pass these insecurities down because just as in my daughter handing me back that phone and saying, you won't like the way you look in this picture. I thought, I've never sat down and told her that. I've never told her to think that. But I'm teaching her how to think about her body. And so how do you, how do you push back on that in this Bible study? Because we have all of these cultural messages, again, selling us a problem, so we'll buy that solution. Looking at our bodies as just something that you know, are aging and that's something definitely not desirable, even though that is the way that God designed us. How do you push back on that with whole body theology?

>> Lisa Whittle: I think the pushing back, honestly, Jessica, is in discovering the truth. And a lot of us, the reason why that we have been sort of left to These types of, you know, this is sort of the best we can do is because we really have not known better, is because we have not been discipled better. It's because we have not had the foundation. I mean, I'm, not excusing us because we have the Bible, but I think, you know, for a lot of us that really weren't taught this, that really didn't think any more than what we had, you know, brought into our life, what had been brought into our lives from the culture that came before us, the generation that came before us, this just became an acceptable way to live. You know, it just became accepted to buy the product or to accept the comment, you know, or to be thin because that's what women should be and wear a certain size and you know, don't embarrass your temples, so don't wear low cut shirts. And nobody ever really pushed back on those things. And I think some of it was just, you know, we just didn't know any better. Some of it was, you know, I think we just accepted the influences ahead of us. And it is now the moment to say, hey, I think those things, while I'm not going to live in the overwhelm of how wrong they were, I want to do something different and I want to do something better. I mean the reality is, Jessica, we would have different relationships within the body of Christ with our brothers and our sisters, because remember, that's what we are if we actually understood whole body theology and who we were as an embodied person and who our brethren Christ was as an embodied person or a sister in Christ. Like our relationships would be different because we live in such an over sexualized culture that we can't even see ourselves for who we are as people so many times. And that's an important part of whole body theology too because we talk about the body of Christ. A lot of things would be very, very different if we would see ourselves differently. And it starts with seeing ourselves, teaching it to our family and the people in the church, as mothers in the church and as elders, in the church. And I think the tide will turn quite a bit and push back against these other ways that we just accepted as ways to be.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I think you're definitely onto something here that our bodies are not a project to be perfected, but they're really a temple to be stewarded. Because we do have to take good care of ourselves. There has to be a balance there. You know, we can't just say like, okay, well this is Everything how it is, but it is, I feel like all of those marketed problems and solutions are really about perfecting it and it's not possible. Because then you see people who do anti aging treatments and cue the debate about, you know, how that doesn't look natural and they shouldn't do that. I mean, there's all of this conversation and you make a good point about Christ because Christ did take on an incarnate form, Christ, the Word became flesh. I mean that is.

How does whole body theology impact how we view our own bodies

Oh goodness, now is when I'm about to get in trouble with my life listeners, Lisa, because, the most controversial thing I do on this show is talk about Christmas before Thanksgiving. But those are all of the, the things, the, and the Christmas songs that we sing, right? Talking about the Word became flesh and dwelling among us. What did you learn in doing this Bible study about how Christ taking on bodily form? How does that impact how we view our own bodies?

>> Lisa Whittle: Well, you have a good reason to bring this up before Christmas because. Okay, good. this, this is one of the most critical things that we miss. And we would be remiss if we just studied it at Christmas because Christ becoming flesh, becoming embodied, taking on that incarnate form. I mean, Sam Albery, the author, I can't ever get this off my brain. He says the highest compliment the human body has ever been paid was Christ becoming flesh and dwelling among us. I mean, I think what's so interesting is that we regard, so many of us would say like, you know, I have the highest regard for Jesus, but we don't have high regard for ourselves. And yet that healthy view of ourselves stems from a healthy view of Christ. And so it's very important that we make that connect. And so of course we don't have time to talk about it now, but I do dive into it in much more detail in the study. The way that he, he views us, that he would come in flesh, he could have come any way he wanted, but he chose a human body himself. And that speaks so highly of our created body. And so, you know, I will say that whole body theology has changed the entire way that I view myself. You know, you're talking about taking a picture. You know, I, I have struggled myself with how do I look in a picture and things like that. But when you see yourself in totality of how you were created in your personhood, it's very hard to pull yourself apart in a picture anymore. It's very hard for you to say, oh, I just don't look good anymore and diminish yourself in that way. Because when you, when you understand this, this body that God created you with, it really does bring the esteem of yourself to a different level.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I'm really convicted by that because, what I've said in the picture thing, that's actually one of our 52 Habits for Healthy families that we've been walking through. Ah, in the last year on this show. And one of the challenges that I've issued to my listeners is to be in the pictures. Because when our kids look at the pictures of us in, in their lives, when they open up that photo album and they see you laughing at a, ah, ah, Christmas, and they see you smiling at a graduation and they see you holding a new baby and gazing lovingly at that baby, they do not look at those pictures and think, oh, look at those flabby arms. Whoa, those crow's feet are really present in those pictures. No, they look at those pictures, Lysa, and I am convinced that what they see is our presence in their lives. They see our presence woven through the tapestry of their lives, that we were there. And that's what you're talking about with Jesus being here on Earth, that we see him in our lives. And I think you're right. When we take on that imago DEI made in the image of God view towards our bodies, it really, really makes a big difference. And so I can't believe we're already here at our second break, Lisa But when we come back, I really want to talk about, I want to ask you about what the creation story in Genesis tells us about our purpose and the nature of our bodies, because we can talk about, you know, God becoming flesh, but really it goes back even further that before that when God created man and woman. And so I encourage you to take a look at this Bible study. Lisa, and I were just talking, backstage, so to speak, during the break, about how young people are so much better at having this conversation than we are. I listen to the conversations among my college age daughters and they're so healthy, they are starting to put limits on themselves about limiting the comparison traps that they can find on social media and about affirming each other and not obsessing about what they're wearing or what size they are or those kinds of things. And I think that is really amazing to look at. And so take a look at this body and soul. This is a Bible study by Lisa Whittle. And again, when we come back, we'll talk some more about this. How loving your body, it really isn't about body positivity. It's not about self acceptance. It's about seeing yourself the way that God does, created in his image, indwelled by his spirit and destined for resurrection. I know that's something we usually don't talk about in everyday conversation, but no matter what your body has been through, God made it good. He has not abandoned you. And our hope is that one day he's going to raise us up with him for glory, which is super exciting. Don't go away. We'll be right back on the other side of this break with more from Lisa Whittle, author of the Bible study Body and Soul.

>> Joseph Parker: a discipleship minute with Joseph Parker. He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress, my God. In him I will trust. Psalm 91, verses 1 and 2 in a perilous world, so many people are afraid, they're fearful. In a world where inner cities and many other communities are just simply dangerous places to be, we see the drug trafficking, human trafficking, muggings, murders, physical and sexual abuse. There is a place of safety in this world, and it's found in God. It's found in that secret place, that intimate relationship with God. No one can protect you like God can. But it's important for us to do our part to appropriate, to place ourselves in that secret place. Praying Psalm 91 every day is a very wise thing for all believers to do. No one can protect you like God can.

>> Still by Hillary Scott: You're parting waters, making a way for me. You're moving mountains that I don't even see. You've answered my prayer before I even speak. All you need for me to be is still. Welcome back, friends. That song is still by Hillary Scott. And I thank you for taking this time in your afternoon just to be still and just to listen and to receive some hope, some encouragement. Our prescription for hope today is seeing yourself through the lens of scripture. Also, wanted to remind you about the Bibles for Babies campaign that we're having. I'll talk about this a lot more tomorrow, but if you want to give a Bible to an expectant mama in memory of John Micah, who is a precious baby who was here for not long enough, but long enough to make a legacy, you can call 877-616-2396 or you can go to afr.net/biblesforbabies And again, we'll have more about that tomorrow.

Lisa Whittle lays out biblical framework for embracing whole selves in Body and Soul

But today we are talking about the struggle that many of us have had with our bodies, our whole lives, whether that may be yo yo or fad, dieting or physical limitations or shame, or maybe even some deep wounds from trauma. We are talking with best selling author and teacher Lisa Whittle today, who believes that God has something better for us. And I believe that too. A vision of our bodies that's created for glory and redeemed for purpose and destined for resurrection. Now those are things we usually do not talk about when we're talking about the insecurities that we have with our bodies. But in this Bible study, Body and Soul, Lisa lays out a biblical framework for embracing our whole selves, heart, soul, mind and strength, rooted in the image of God. And Lisa, before the break, we were talking about going all the way back to creation and how God created us. And so what did you learn from that? Had that changed your perspective on how you view your body?

>> Lisa Whittle: Well, I think, you know, like so many folks, we've heard the phrase made in the image of God. And I think, you know, what's interesting is studying it and learning about being made in the image of God and then also the ability to image God gave me a real framework for the depth of what that means. You know, everybody is made in the image of God. That means every living, breathing human alive. Whether you choose to follow and accept Christ or not, we're all made in his image, which is assigning dignity and worth to everyone. And that is hugely important because, you know, it just really hit me that we're always looking for worth that we already have. We're always trying to find more of it. And you know, you spoke a lot about the, things that were constantly being sold, the ways that we're constantly being told to improve all of those things. And yet we already have the highest worth and dignity of a person that any of us could possibly have. Being made in the image of God like that is just so profound. And so for that to crystallize within us that are worth is at the highest level. So anything else we do to, put moisturizer on our skin or exercise or whatever, that's great for our bodies perhaps, but that will not give us more worth because we already have the highest of worth. And that was decided at creation. That's one aspect of it. The other part about it is that as believers, we have this other part in that we can image Christ. So we're all born, we're all created in the image of God, but as believers, we can image him in the way that we live our embodied life. I don't know if you've ever heard of the glove illustration, but I think this is the most brilliant way. And I did not come up with this illustration, but I love it. So that a glove is made in the image of a hand, but until you put your hand in it, it will not be in its greatest functionality. And that's the way us as believers are able to image Christ. We're all made in the image of him, but when we are a, believer and we accept him, we can image him in the way we live our embodied lives. I think those things were very, profound for me as I kind of took it all the way back to Genesis. And Imago DEI is the place we start in the Bible study. It's the place we all have to start, because knowing our worth and knowing the assignment of that is just very different. But it must start there. It's very different from, your body is good. You need to understand that your body is good. I mean, we know that our body is good according to Genesis 1:31, where it says that he looked at all he had made and he saw that it was very good. That's not a worldly idea. That's a biblical idea. But the world doesn't understand what it's even saying when it tells us that our body is good. So that's why sometimes there's crossover in body positivity messages. But without a biblical understanding, they're still devoid of power and freedom and peace. And so, that also makes it very important in going back to the creation and knowing exactly who you are.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: And, you know, I keep thinking about how our conversation today just dovetails beautifully with the conversation we had yesterday with Glenna Marshall, because she wrote a Bible study on, Psalm 139, which, of course, is the psalm that tells us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. And I think there are so many of us who look at the ways that we are made and resent maybe some of the ways that we were made or even the ways especially that we age. Because there's some things that you may not like about how your body was created. Ah, but the. Then there's a lot of us who don't like the way that our bodies age. And so the questions we ask ourselves, Lisa, are, well, should I get Botox, or should I try a GLP or one? Or should I go to the gym? M. Should I try that face cream? I don't think that we are asking ourselves that the tendency is not to say, okay, well, how does God view this? Because even I'm thinking about scriptures like from Proverbs 16, that gray hair is a crown of splendor. I mean, that's definitely not something that you're seeing on an advertisement coming across saying that, no, they're trying to do something else. So talk a little bit about how this Bible study works and how it will continue to take the, the reader on a journey of comparing what does the world say about your body and what does God say about it?

>> Lisa Whittle: Yeah, I, I take us through six weeks of, Biblical look. And we, you know, I do a video and then we also have the workbook and really, ask you questions that will help you take a. Take your own look and take your own inventory. I'm not a therapist. I'm not a nutritional expert, I'm not a, fitness coach, none of those things. I'm a Bible teacher. And so building a biblical foundation is, is so important in that framework of the Bible. And so we just go through scripture and go through six weeks. I think about, like, a true transformative process. Six weeks. Pretty short period of time to do that. And I'm so grateful that, the Lord just helped me compile this in such a way that I pray and believe and trust make sense. We've got groups doing it literally all over the country, of all ages. And really this, honestly, Jessica, is meant m to be done in groups. It's totally fine if you want to do it on your own. I know the subject matter can feel especially tender, and some people are doing it by themselves and then doing it with groups to do it by themselves first. But it's really made to do in a community because I can tell you that all of us are in this space in some way. We're all dealing with it. It's touched all of our lives. We're all embodied people. And so, you know, the body of Christ really needs to come together and talk to each other about where we are with it. And so obviously if you're in a group and there's something that makes you uncomfortable, you simply say that you can't talk about it. But I have fashioned in such a way that it wouldn't make anyone feel uncomfortable to chat through. So. So, I hope people will do it that way and discover it together.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, I feel like the world has changed a lot in the last five years since COVID The conversations that we've had have changed the social norms, social tolerance. So much has changed and one of the things, you know, we talk a lot about the ways that the world has changed since COVID in particular, especially for our kids emotionally. But one thing that a lot of people really aren't aware of is that one of the mental health disorders that has skyrocketed since COVID is eating disorders. Now it's quiet and it's socially acceptable. So, like, if you have an eating disorder and maybe that manifests in you losing weight, which of course not all eating disorders, that will happen, but you're kind of celebrated socially. It's like, oh, you look so great and you're given positive affirmation. It's not easy to see those things. And, and people may not know either that eating disorders are actually the most deadly mental health disorder. Because of the damage it can do to your body and because of the damage that it does to your mind, it puts you at great risk for self harm. And I think that in this conversation, I'm grateful for you pulling this, giving people a tool to have some conversation about it, because these may not just be edifying conversations, Lisa these may be life saving conversations. And so I'd like to know, I mean, you, you've done the, you do your own media. You were just on a podcast with Candace Cameron Bure. You're, you're speaking to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of women and people about this. What kind of reaction have you gotten? What kind of stories have you gotten to show you that God is at work in this?

>> Lisa Whittle: That has been the most, that's really been the most tender part for me, Jessica, because I know how it changed my life. But then to hear how it is impacting women. And, you spoke of eating disorders. I mean, I got a message the other day from a young woman who has struggled with one for 20 years. And she said, I'm in a clinic right now. And the dietitian here suggested body and soul. And she said, I'm going through it and it's already transforming the way I see myself. And those kinds of messages, I cannot tell you how much they mean to me because I know that God, is the one who changes us. He is the one who transforms us. I know that these things are difficult and stubborn and things that have to do with our body and our identities. I mean, there is nothing more than Satan wants to absolutely destroy than the way that we form, than the identity that is formed in us. I mean, if he can take down our identity, he can take us down. And so it's such A crucial thing for us to know, for the church to disciple in. it is a message that is absolutely for every single human being, because it has to do with the worth and dignity of every person alive. And so, I mean, the messages that are coming in, women that have said, I've struggled for 40 years, and I can't believe that anything would ever change. And this is changing me. I mean, and I know that that has nothing to do with me. It has to do with what is being shown in the Bible, because every transformative process always will come from the word of God. And so I just. I sit back and marvel because I think, praise be to God. This has been the only thing in my life that has ever personally worked. I remember, Jessica, before I started writing this Bible study, I said to the Lord, will I ever be free? Because I really had consuming body thoughts my entire life. And, I can say to you today that while I do not live a perfect journey, and while I am, I'm a human being, so I always will have, you know, certain things that I work on. We all will. In every area of my life until I go to the Jesus, I am walking a freedom road to glory. And in this area of my life, I have body, peace and freedom. And that is something that I didn't know I would ever be able to say.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, that's one of the most humbling things to me, Lisa, is because every day I sit across the microphone and interview authors and, you know, and there's so many. I mean, you are a very accomplished author, Lysa, and it's all. But the story's always the same. It's not. Oh, here, let me tell you, give you a guide to something I've managed in my life perfectly. It's no. It comes from a place of pain or struggle, but that is the character of our God who redeems, who restores, who renews, who makes all things whole. And I love that you brought up that scripture about Satan does come to steal and to kill and to destroy. And I do believe that one of the biggest things he does is try to destroy our body image and distort it and warp it. But. But God sent his son that we would have life. And not just life, but life more abundantly. That's one of the things I appreciate about your work, Lisa, because it's called body and soul. And yes, you need those people to help with your body. Especially it might be a therapist, a clinician, a nutritionist. But without addressing that soul component, then you're really just kind of going through the motions. I feel like it's paint by numbers. Yeah, we're doing all the right things, but without the soul of it, you really are doomed to continue the cycle. So. So again, Lisa, I just appreciate so much you engaging in this work. It is very, very brave. Get a copy of the Bible study Body and Soul. A biblical look at the whole person God created you to be. I think especially for younger people, for younger generations, just not because they need it more, but because they're more open and they're more willing to talk about this. This would be a great study to have for college age persons or a youth group or. Or just be brave and just ask somebody to do this study with you. Lisa, I appreciate it so much. Tell us where we can connect with you and find out more.

>> Lisa Whittle: Thank you so much, Jessica. it's lisawhittle.com Amazon, LifeWay. Wherever books are sold, you can get the Bible study.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Thank you so much, Lisa. And listen, as you're seeing yourself through the lens of scripture, that's our prescription for hope today. For healthy families and a healthy body. Not a perfect one, but a healthy one. I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace until we see you back here tomorrow. Again, the Bible study is Body and Soul by Lisa Whittle. Have a great day, guys.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Jessica talks with best-selling author and Bible teacher Lisa Whittle who provides a countercultural view of body image through a scriptural lens in her new Bible study BODY AND SOUL

Rx for Hope: See Yourself Through the Lens of Scripture

https://www.lisawhittle.com/