Hello and welcome to the doctor nursemama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have got a great prescription for hope for you. Today we are talking about creating a faith that sticks for us as parents, as grandparents, parents. One of our greatest fears, I think in the world is that our kids are going to grow up and leave their faith. And we see that a lot of kids do that. We know that up to 75% of kids will leave their faith, will denounce their faith, will deconstruct their faith, will, will really reject the values that they were raised on. And we don't want that to happen. And today we're talking about something that is very near and dear to my heart. If you are in the thick of the preteen years right now, we're talking about that age from about 9,8ish. Some people may say, hey, I have a five year old that feels like a preteen up until age 12. If you feel like your once cuddly kid is now moody and mysterious and has 13 moods in 13 minutes and push backs, pushes back on everything, or you feel like you go in to give a hug and it's like hugging a cactus, I want you to take a deep breath because you are not alone. Today we are going to dive into one of the hardest yet the most most sacred, wonderful, special seasons of parenting with someone who has been there too.
5 Real Life Ways to disciple your preteen in today's conversation
Not only me, but our guest today is Leslie Nunnery. She is a M Mom M of 4. She's the co founder of Teach Them Diligently and the co author of the beautiful new book Faith that sticks. Real Life Ways. 5 Real Life Ways to disciple your preteen. And so in today's conversation, she brings experience but also empathy. And that's something I think that's really important. As we talk with preteens, we really need to have some empathy for them because we so want the world to be one way and we want it to be the way that it was when we were growing up in a simpler time where life seemed more laid back and less fearful. But that's just not the reality that our kids and preteens are facing today. And we have to have empathy and lead with courage in that. And Leslie, in reading her book, she's the kind of voice that says Me, too. When you feel like you're failing, it's just like I'm right there with you. But I found hope and healing, and I found some help. So in today's conversation, we're going to talk about how to hold on to that connection when it might feel like your preteen starts pulling away. How do you deal with that? And how grace and prayer and spiritual intentionality can really transform these hard years into wholeness. Holy one. So if you're feeling weary in that parenting journey, we're going to remind you that you've got what it takes, and you do not have to walk this road alone. We are going to walk it with you.
Leslie: I absolutely love preteens. I will share with you that
Leslie, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here.
Leslie Nunnery Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is great to be here. And you and I were chatting a little bit before the show. I told you I would promise not to gush too much about preteens, but I absolutely love preteens. It is such a fun age. I will share with you that I served as a camp nurse for about a thousand kids every summer that were all preteen. So imagine a thousand preteen kids coming out of my nurse's office, and I could not love it more. And there are so many people, Leslie, who just really. They don't mean to, but they speak words of negativity over this so much. You know, it's, Like, I was. I had four teenagers at once. Now my kids are starting to move into that young adult phase, and I would say, you know, I've got four teens. And people would say, like, Lucille Ball. Like, ooh. Like, that's the response that I got. Like, I love Lucy. That yuck. But preteens are so great.
You have a heart especially for preteens with this book
So I want to know what inspired you to write this book? Why do you have a heart, especially for preteens?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, well, that's. That's such a big question, and I'm so glad you asked it, because my heart for preteens goes back to the fact that, like you said, I have parented through that four times. David and I felt like every new phase was our favorite. You know, you go, the newborn stage is so fun, and then it gets better as they learn new tricks and, you know, like, all of these things. Every phase was our favorite, including the preteen phase when we were in it. and so we thoroughly enjoyed that phase, but not without the fear and the bewilderment that everyone else faces. but I find in talking to parents all across the country that so many are actually led by that fear and bewilderment, so much so that it really removes their joy in that stage of parenting. And so that was one of the things that led me to really want to dive in and help parents in that way. But the other thing is there are precious few resources out there to encourage and challenge parents in this stage of parenting. M which again, just kind of feeds that fear, feeds that bewilderment that so many face. and so Tricia Goyer and I really wanted to dive into how to seize these moments. Build on the relationship that you started while your kids were little so that you can increase that foundation for an even better relationship with your teens and young adults. I just, I actually forgot that I, the timing because I was over holding my brand new granddaughter, just a few minutes ago and I rushed back home. But being able to be at my son's house with his five day old daughter and loving on her, that relationship started way back when and it was really strengthened during those preteen years. And I want all families out there to be able to just ride that wave, enjoying even better relationships as your kids get older. And so the way that you approach these preteen years is so important.
Leslie says parenting is one of the only jobs that is super long term
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, amen to all of that and congratulations on having a new grandbaby. New life in the world is so precious. Oh, my goodness. I just love, love, love new little babies. I love preteens. I love kids. You can see that. But you know what, Leslie? You bring up something really important because as you're looking at seeing the seeds that you've planted starting to grow years later, I mean, your, your son is obviously well removed from being a preteen. But I think that's one of the traps that we fall into as parents, is that we live in a world of instant gr and we want our kids to respond to our parenting efforts immediately so that it gives us a feedback loop saying, hey, you're doing a great job as a parent. And that's just not the way that God made us. It's not the way that God made our kids. So we've got to have the faith in the seeds that we're planting that they will grow. And we have to have the patience to work through the eye rolls and the size and the oh, moms that come with that stage of parenting, don't we?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, no question. You know, parenting is one of the only jobs that you'll have that is super long term. But you really, outside of just walking in faith you don't know if it's working. You don't know if it's going to stick until you get there. So you truly have to, as a parent, walk in obedience day in and day out, do the next thing, be faithful in what God has called you to do in strengthening those relationships and passing on your faith, teaching your children diligently and trust that God will make that hold. And so really, our book is to encourage and equip parents to walk faithfully. and then, you know, as you noted, our faith is really tested as we just lay our children at Jesus feet every day and trust that he will keep them and that what we are instilling in them will take root and will stick. because he is good and we can trust him.
Parents can fall into traps of loving their children more than who they are becoming
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, you said something else that I loved. Ah. And just a little bit ago, you said every phase of, and of childhood, you said every phase is our favorite. I think that's another trap that parents can fall into in these preteen years. Not only being frustrated because you're not seeing results of your parenting right away, but also thinking, oh, well, you know, just a few years ago, I was the sun, moon and stars to you. You adored me, you wanted me to be around all of the time. And, and now it just seems like I annoy you. I embarrass you, you know, by doing things like breathing and. Because we can embarrass them. And sometimes I feel like we can fall into the trap of loving our children more, who they used to be, more than who they are becoming. And we give those messages to our kids. Like, we look at picture past pictures with nostalgia, and we say, oh, look, you were so cute. And for a preteen, if you can remember being a pre teen, there's very few pre teens who feel like, oh, yeah, that was my best phase of life. Like, I, I felt so confident, you know, I felt, you know, comfortable in my. They don't feel that way.
Leslie: How did you make every phase your favorite
So I'd love for you to talk a little about that, a little bit more. about how is. How did you make every phase your favorite?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, well, I think some of it is just David and I are just kind of naive. We just kind of went into each new one thinking, it's going to be great. So there is a little bit of that, and I think that's good where you just. Your mindset really does, help with the way that you're entering those new phases. not every phase was easy, not every phase was equal. But we found joy in every Phase because we were just really determined to know our kids. We were really determined to stick close with our kids to keep those relationships really, really strong. we were really determined to pray diligently for our kids. We prayed scripture over our kids constantly. And the Lord answered those prayers by directing our paths and giving us ideas that we had no idea what God would do with them. We just obeyed these little ideas that he would give us. And so we were able to, even through that preteen stage, I tell all the time I remember hearing David talk. Our first two are boys, our second two are girls. And I remember David with our boys in particular, something would happen. And during this phase, all kids are kind of foolish. But guys, it's like their head is detached from their bodies. It's like you just never know what a preteen boy is going to come out with. and our boys were normal preteens in that way. There were things that they did that you're just like, what on earth were you thinking? And I remember sitting back and thinking as David would be talking to them, how much wisdom God gave him. and so another side of the way that God grew our family during that time was he really, really grew me in my appreciation and awe of the way that God was using David in my husband, in the lives of our children as well. So there's just so many different ways that God strengthens your family as your kids are truly morphing from little kids into grown ups. Like this is such a transformational phase and we talk about a lot of the emotional and physical changes that are going on, in the book because I think that that's really important to understand. But as your child is really jumping from little kid 1 minute to 26 year old the next, with kind of the crazy in between, you get to see how God is starting to help them think more, deeply. Nothing is black and white anymore. We kind of joke about the fact that everything becomes multi shades of gray, but actually that's their brain maturing and they're able to think and converse with you on such a deeper level that when you lean into those and really again, stay close to your child, really know what makes them happy, what really turns them on, gets them excited. And you're able to strengthen the relationship by learning more about those things with them. You see that those seeds of relationships just really, really strengthen as they mature and get more complex in the way that they think and live.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, two really important points from what you're saying here, Leslie. One Is that sharing this parenting journey, it is really important to have a support system and it's so great to have one to admire the gifts that God has given your husband. I think sometimes that was helpful for me too because my husband was more logical and, and rational and I could be. Tend to be carried away with the emotions of it all. And I saw God giving us a balance there, you know, where we could do that. And it's important to share it. But one of another trap where I really feeling, convicted about these traps that we can fall into here, Leslie. But one of the traps that we can fall into, I think is sharing that parenting journey online. It's called sharing is the, the, the term that's been given to it. And sometimes we can share those frustrations and just talk about, oh, this was so frustrating. My pre teen does this and I see it happen all the time. But we are curators of our kids digital footprints and we are telling their story. And they're so often my kids will say, let me see your social media. And they go through because they want to see what I'm saying about them. They want to see what I think think about them. And one of the things that I love about your book, Leslie, is that you wrote this with your friend Tricia Goyer. And it's like sitting, reading this book felt like I was sitting down with the two of you. And you're saying, look, sister, let me tell it to you straight. Here's how it goes, here's what I've learned, here's what it's been. And we're coming right up against a, break here. But when we come back, I want to talk about that being how did it was the experience writing this with your friend and knowing that you're not alone. What are those appropriate boundaries for sharing the frustrations and the insecurities that we have? And then, Leslie, we're going to go straight into that question of what, what were you thinking? Here's a spoiler alert. That is a question that was passed down to us in the parenting manual by our parents. But here's the answer. They weren't thinking. Their brains weren't developed yet to think logically. And we have expectations of them that are just not realistic. Listen, we will be right back with with Leslie Nunnery, author of Faith that Sticks five real life ways to disciple your pre teen. We will get really practical when we come back. See you on the other side of this break. Because of listeners like you, preborn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax- deductible gift saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR. this June 24th marks three years since Roe vs Wade was overturned. But here's what you may not know. Abortion numbers have surged to a 10 year high. The battleground has shifted from the courtroom to our homes. Today, over 60% of abortions happen through the abortion pill. Taken in silence, often alone, Preborn network clinics are standing in the gap, meeting women in their most desperate hour. And here's what they're seeing. Young mothers, terrified, misled, are delivering their babies, tiny, perfectly formed onto bathroom floors. These precious babies, once called just tissue, now lie lifeless. 11% of these women who take the abortion pill will suffer serious health complications. Countless others carry emotional scars for a lifetime. When you give to preborn, you're not just saving a baby, you're saving a mother too. You're giving her hope, financial support and the truth. PreBorn has already rescued over 350,000 babies. But there are so many more who need our help. Your tax- deductible gift makes this mission possible. To donate now, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or go to preborn.com/AFR, afr that's preborn.com/AFR. Preborn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year, Preborn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR.
Nobody Loves Me Like You by Chris Tomlin I worship you as long as I am breathing God, you are faithful and true. Nobody loves me like you.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That's nobody loves me Me like you by Chris Tomlin. And today we're talking about maybe somebody who feels like they're not lovable, who feels like they're not worthy of love. We're talking about those pre teen years. And so often, when our kids are the most difficult to love is when they need love the very most. And you may be wondering if you when you've whispered a prayer over them while you're folding their laundry or you wonder if that nighttime devotional really meant anything. If it's going to bear fruit, this is the show for you. And today I'm joined by the delightful Leslie Nunnery, co author of Faith that sticks five real life ways to disciple your preteen. And this is a book that's all about turning those small, ordinary moments of parenting into really powerful tools for spiritual growth. And Leslie's heart for family discipleship is so genuine, so grounded in the everyday. She is a mom. She is a ministry leader. She has spent years walking with families just like yours, just like mine. Family who love God deeply, but a lot of times just feel overwhelmed and under qualified, or maybe just plain tired. This season of parenting can be really tough. And she is here to help us with the message that discipleship doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it does need to be intentional. And you are going to walk away from this conversation with fresh hope and simple, meaningful ways to help your child's faith take root. That's one day, one prayer, one moment at a time. So to catch you up, we have talked about some traps that you can fall into during those preteen years. One is instant gratification, wanting your kids to immediately respond to your feedback like you were an automated assistant that solved their problems so that you can have that feeling that you're doing a good job as a parent. The second would be maybe loving who they are, who they used to be, more than who they are becoming and expressing, even unintentionally, maybe even not even aware that you're doing it. I know I could fall into that trap of saying that this season of parenting is hard and maybe less desirable than other seasons. And the other that we were just talking about is oversharing. Now you need somebody to walk alongside with you. And Leslie was talking about her husband, David. And, Leslie, you wrote this book with your friend Tricia. So talk about what that was like to share your experiences together.
Leslie Nunnery well, Tricia and I have, known each other for many years. We have served together through our events and at other events, and just have a very similar heart for families, but we have very different backgrounds. And so working together on this project was really, really. It was fun because I love her, but it was also really enlightening for both of us because we were able to take the two different backgrounds, the two different family dynamics. Hers has been built in a very different way. Mine is. I have four children. They're all biological. She has, I think 10 and seven of them are adopted through the foster care system. So just very, very different backgrounds and family dynamics, but a very similar heart for our kids and for the families that we're able to serve. So it was a lot of fun to work on. We work really well together. We complement each other really nicely. And but we both learned a lot from each other. And that's been one of the things that's been really fun to come out of this as well, is just the little things that I picked up from her and John and their journey and the things that she's picked up from me and David. has really been helpful as we continue to parent our kids. Now they're getting older, but we are still parenting and also invest in other families that we're able to invest in it at events and through our podcasts and writing and different things. So. So, it was a great experience working with Tricia.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's just always encouraging to know that you're not alone because so often when we start to have these troubles as moms especially, it's very difficult to share it because we don't want to say, like, hey, I'm not getting along with my kid. I definitely had that experience, Leslie. You know, I was really not equipped. I didn't have a good relationship with my mom. And so I had a lot of fear that drove my decisions. And you and I were just talking about that during the break. When all of these hormone shifts and storms start to come, a lot of times our response is fear. And when we see those happen, I see parents many times responding in one of two ways. They either respond in the okay, it's my way or the highway. You live in my house, you obey my rules. I'm just, if you want me to be the tough guy, I'll be the tough guy. Or we have the other end of the spectrum saying, oh, my goodness, I'll give you whatever you want. I'm just desperate for connection with you, so I'll buy you whatever you want. I'll say yes to whatever you want. And I am not judging those because honestly, Leslie, I have been both of those. Like, I have tried both of those. And what I found and what you and I were talking about is a lot of those are driven by fear. So what did you learn as a mom about development, about brain development, about just normal development for kids? And then why this is such a critical time for discipleship and faith and how we can reject that fear based approach?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, yeah. Why? I think that another. Another response to that fear is actually what I fell prey to. And that's where you just get paralyzed. and to where I was, there was a season, and thank the Lord it was a relatively short season. He was very gracious in getting my attention, but I was so afraid of the evils that were out there for my Boys or the different things that they were going to get into or, you know, that, that I was going to lose them or whatever, that I, I didn't engage in conversations that I should have or I wasn't as involved because I was just utterly paralyzed by fear. And that's another response that I think is very easy to fall into. That, the worst thing that you can do for your preteen is to withdraw from them. Because, as we'll talk about looking at their development, preteens are largely very, very insecure. And because of all of these things that are changing in them, their brain is changing rapidly. In fact, the changes in their brain and the development in their brain is what's most responsible for the mood swings and the weird and erratic behavior. You know, we usually chalk it up. Oh, it's just their hormones are changing and yeah, that's happening. But really it's all their brain changes that are driving all of this behavior. And so when all of this stuff is changing and your kids truly don't understand why they're so different than they were before or why all of a sudden they look different or they haven't grown into their arms and legs or whatever it. If mom and dad are withdrawing from them, even if it looks like they're strong arming you and they're trying to push you away, mom and dad, they need you more than ever during this time. You have the privilege of being the one that sits there beside them on the bed as they're crying in frustration and letting them know that they're fearfully and wonderfully made and God didn't make a mistake and they are just the way that God made them and they're growing into the manner or young lady that God created them to be. And you're able to be there to encourage and to be that counselor and that friend in that moment. And again, those living and understanding and being there when your child needs you the most is so impactful in strengthening that relationship and giving you a platform that is authentic and real, that you're able to really pass on your faith in a way that, that will truly stick with them, even through times when they may start pulling on it and seeing, seeing, you know, trying to test the boundaries of things, you still are building that foundation of that relationship that's going to give you much opportunity with them in the days ahead. So understanding what's going on inside of them and then responding to them, not reacting to them, but responding lovingly and intentionally and missionally is going to go a long way towards helping your kids through this phase and then also helping you as a parent through this phase and to build on something for later phases.
So much wisdom and encouragement in what you just shared there, Leslie
Dr. Jessica Peck So much wisdom and encouragement in what you just shared there, Leslie. And you're right. As parents, we. We get kind of traumatized when they. When our kids reach that preteen phase, and then all of a sudden they're acting differently, and we feel like we've been in kind of a little peaceful season and we've gotten into a rhythm and, you know, things are working. And then all of a sudden you have to change strategies. And that trauma response is fight, flight, or freeze. And that's what parents do a lot of times, especially driven by fear. And I really want to emphasize what you said, Leslie, that the worst thing you can do is withdraw. And I want to say that again very loud and clear, because so many parents, they feel pushed away by their preteens, and they let it happen. And that's one of the hardest things that you are called to do as a parent, is to lean in even when it feels like you're being rejected, even when it feels like you're not welcome, because that's not the case. They are in a flight, fright, or freeze state themselves because they're thinking, what do I do in this? And we have to create a relationship where we help them to emotionally regulate. We model to them what that looks like, and then we create safe spaces. And I love what you said about responding versus reacting. So much of what we say is reactive. Like, what do you mean you did that? Like, wait, what do you mean you said that? Why did, why. What were you thinking? What do you think's gonna happen there? Instead of responding? And, you know, you're so right. We have the privilege of sitting beside them. And I would often, my pre teens in this phase, I cannot fix your problem. I wish that I could, but I can't fix it. But I can encourage you to fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith, who, for the joy set before him, endured the cross, despising his shame. And he is sitting at the right hand of God cheering you on right now. He knows this problem that you have. And I think that's so important, so, so, so much wisdom to share there. And a lot of the things that you talk about in this book, Leslie, it's not. And I told you that, you know, I'm married to a rocket scientist, so my kids troll me all the time saying, it's not rocket science, mom, but this is not rocket science, but somehow it's still so hard. And this is such encouraging advice that people need to have.
What are practical ways to engage to build a faith that sticks
Let's talk about those practical ways that you encourage people to lean in, to not withdraw. What are ways to engage to build a faith that sticks?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, I would love to. yeah. Like you noted, most of or all of these things that we lay out in the book are all kind of common sense. There's stuff that, if you're growing in your faith, you're doing yourself. You're already doing these things. So discipleship is leveraging what God is teaching you on behalf of another. So, you start leveraging these things that God is growing in you and bringing your child into your own faith walk. it's so good for just passing on things very naturally.
Prayer is the foundational habit of parenting, Leslie says
And the first thing that we talk about is prayer. you know, you have probably been praying for your children since before they were born. you know, I know David and I certainly were. But those prayers become more complex. They become more probably desperate as your kids get older. but bringing your kids into prayer, helping them understand that there is a God who loves to talk to them, loves for them to bring their needs to him. you know, the fact that we can go before the God of the universe with every need that we have is astonishing when you stop to think about it. I can't even get in to see the mayor of my little town, let alone. But, you know, but I have free access to the God of the universe. And so did my preteens. And so helping them understand that, looking for things to pray about. And you probably, again, been doing this since your kids were really, really little. You're praying for things as you see them. but you continue that as they become preteens and the conversations just go a little bit deep. So as you pass an accident on the road, you know, we are generally inclined to pray for the people who are in that accident. Then, you know, as the kids are becoming preteens and they're starting to think more complex, they start praying for the rescue workers. They start praying. You know, you just see this kind of developing, and what you're doing is you're instilling in them a habit, a reflex of taking those needs when they see them to the Lord, and then celebrating the way that God is answering them, them. So it's really, really important that even in those moments where, like, you were talking about, where you say, I can't fix this, but I can tell you to fix your eyes on Jesus, that is where you're helping them turn to that conversation, those. Those prayerful moments that they can have with Jesus and helping them see that he is right there listening. He cares about their insecurities and how they just feel like everything is upside down and that he is walking right there beside him every step of the way. So prayer is, is. Is one of those great tools in the hand of a missional parent to help pass on a faith that sticks.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're so right. And teens are looking for authenticity. And you talk a lot about framing this as habits, which we also do on this show, 52 Habits for Healthy families. We talk about those every Friday. And by the way, if you're listening and thinking, wait, I missed that. You can catch up in the doctor, nurse, mama coaching minutes. Just one minute, one habit a week you can stack on top of each other. But, Leslie, the prayer is the foundational habit. We started with that because you cannot parent a preteen in today's world successfully without prayer. I'm just convinced of that. And I think about when, you know, our kids may be going through a challenging season. Maybe they're struggling with something, and we're just feeling that tension, and then all of a sudden they come up to us and they're, hey, mom, how are you? How is your day? Our immediate response is suspicion. We're like, what do you want? Want? Why are you acting like this? And, you know, the thing is, our kids do the same thing with us because sometimes we feel guilty about, okay, well, I know I've been irritable. I know I haven't been as patient. I know, you know, I haven't responded in the best way. So I'm going to be the best parent I can today. And then it's not received, and we just immediately feel deflated and crushed. But I think leaning in and making those habits and just continuing to build them over time, having prayer over time. The other ones are Bible reading and conversation, serving together and really focusing on building that relationship. And in the pages of your book, Faith that Sticks, five real life ways to disciple your pre teen, Leslie, you share so many personal anecdotes. You and Tricia both share stories of things that have gone well, things that have not gone well. But really what you're painting a picture of is being an intentional parent, cultivating these habits over time and again. this is. I can't believe we're already up against another break. We could talk about this all day. I feel so passionate about this. I know you do, too. But when we Come back. I really want to lean into that conversation piece.
One of the most common questions I get from parents is how to talk to kids
So one of the most common questions I get, Leslie, from parents across the country is how do I get my kids to talk to me? How do I get them to open up? And there's a story shared in the book of I, I think, I think it was Trisha, maybe it was you sitting in a spa and having a, a conversation just forth and, and then saying like, wait, oh, not everybody talks like this. It is a skill that has to be worked on. And we'll talk about that. We'll answer that question for those parents who are thinking, I would love nothing more than to have a deep, meaningful conversation with my kid. How do I make that happen? We will tell you about that on the other side of this break and we'll talk about some more real life ways. Disciple your pre team. Listen, they need, need you now more than ever. We'll be right back with more from Leslie Nunnery, a co author with Tricia Goyer. Don't go away. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
The early church fathers viewed the scriptures as divinely inspired
Here's Dr. Carl Trueman from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks.
Dr. Carl Trueman The early church fathers viewed the scriptures as divinely inspired. Often they would use the image of a, musical instrument, as if scripture had been written in the way that, say, notes come out of a flute when it's played by a flute player, as if the, the writer was the flute and the spirit was that which was creating the tune. Certainly they regarded scripture as authoritative. When you look at the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, they're very happy to quote scripture and consider that to have closed down the argument. So obviously, obviously the Apostolic Fathers rooted tremendous authority in the actual words of scripture itself, which implies they had a very high view of its inspiration. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.
See Me Through It by Brandon Heath Things are getting real Jesus, take the wheel. Only way I'm getting to the other side Days are getting dark life's a little hard blinding. But I'm trying not to lose sight. I don't got this. I, know you got this. Yeah. And I'll believe it before I see it. Yeah, I know you're going to see me through it. If anybody can, you can do it. God, I know in the tr. In the play Fire in the rain, you're going to see me do it. You going to see me do it. If anybody can, you can do it. And whenever my heart runs away, you save it. You going to see me through it.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is see me through it by Brandon Heath. That's in my top 10. Yes. I have 87 songs in my top 10 not. Sorry about that, don't care, love music. If you are in that stage of life where you're parenting pre teens and you're thinking things are getting real, Jesus, take the wheel. Then maybe put that song in your top 10 playlist because we're here to encourage you. Today I'm talking with Leslie Nunnery, author, co author, with Tricia Goyer of a, book called Faithful that Sticks. Five real life ways to disciple your preteens. I have had five, I have had four preteens myself going through that stage. As a mom, I've done things terribly wrong. I have learned things along the way. And as we share with you, I think it's, you need to know, at least from my perspective. I'm not sharing with you because I think, oh, I have all the answers. I figured it all out. It is. No, I haven't found all the answers, but I found the courage to share with you how I have failed and how God has provided hope and healing for us a lot. The way we've talked about when the preteen storm hits, that you are not alone and you can build a faith that sticks through those everyday moments. And life with preteens can feel like controlled chaos. There are changing moods, there are big questions that are being asked and even bigger emotions. But what if these chaotic moments, what if you could reframe those to look at them as divine invitations, as an incredible opportunity? And today's guest, Leslie Nunnery, believes that they are. She's here to help us lean into that with courage and purpose. She is the co author of this book, Faith that Sticks. Listen, y', all, this is a refreshingly real guide for building spiritually grounded homes during those often overlooked preteen years, which are so formative. And so we were talking before the break and it was your story, Leslie. I did have it right about the spa and about having conversation. That's such an important skill to work on together. So I'm going to give it to you there and let us tell you, Tell us everything that you learned.
Leslie Nunnery Oh, I would love to. Yeah. That story at the spa, which happened last summer, actually right before we finished this book, it barely eked its way in. but I was at the spa with my newly, ah, married daughter at the time. And, we were having this great conversation and she had talked about how she had a bunch of friends over, she and her husband did the night before, and they were Just shocked about the relationship that she has with her mom. and so as she was telling me that, I was just marveling. But really that spa date, pre or goes way back, it started as a tradition when she was a preteen, when my girls were preteen and she's my older daughter. So when she was just coming into those preteen years, I started taking the girls, girls on birthday dates where we would go somewhere, spend the night. So we had the long car drive there, we'd spend the night, do something that they wanted to do, come back the next day. And, I started doing this with all my kids and it gave me a great one on one time to really get in, see what's in their heart, get to know them even better, invest deeply in something that they love. and show them just, you know, my, my love language, I guess, is time. I love spending time with people, getting to know, you know, much more deeply than surface. So we would, we would spend this time and we did this every year from about the time she was 11, 12 years old. So it was very natural for us to take a birthday date. It's just gotten more expensive as she's getting older. Yeah, but you know, that, that started way back when. And so taking those times to have conversations with your kids is so very, very important. And there are a few things to really keep in mind as you're having conversations with your preteens. Number one, you need to listen and listen intentionally because your kids are going to really struggle to get out what they really want to say. So you may end up having a 45 minute conversation. A lot of our best conversations in our family are on car rides. So I love to take a drive in the evening. I'd grab one of my kids, we'd go get a cup of coffee or a milkshake or whatever and drive, have great conversations. And we'd be talking about nothing, nothing, nothing. And then, you know, the last five, ten minutes you get just this incredible insight into what's in their heart. so as you're having these conversations, don't look at them all as world changing. Look at them all as opportunities to get to the heart of what's really going on inside of them. But that happens by really being interested in what they're interested in, in really being interested in who they are and who they're becoming. and getting, it's very much akin to getting on the floor and playing Legos with your little ones. This is, you know, get in and do the Stuff that really means something to them. Ask them questions, you know, get in there, let them talk. Because everybody likes to talk about themselves. So giving them the opportunity to talk about themselves and just winding your way through these conversations, you're going to get. Get a lot of really great information. And, and you're going to have a lot of great memories, too, from those times where you're just hanging out and conversing. but they're so, so powerful. Those conversation times are.
Dr. Jessica Peck They really are. And a lot of parents worry about what to say, but really, 75% of it should be listening. If you would just sit down and listen. So some, some ways to shift the energy that I recommend for families are go to your preteen and ask them, what would you ask me to do with you if you knew? I wouldn't say no. And you may be surprised. They may ask you to do a little dance from social media, or they may ask you to try something with them or to play a game with them or to go somewhere with them and see if you can make that happen. That's a great way to do that. And, and Leslie, you and I have such similar heartbeat in this. This is what I wrote about in my book Behind Closed Doors, and I gave conversation keys to unlock the heart of your teen. Because that's what we all want to do. We want to unlock the hearts of our teens, and we want to have influence there. We want to have connection and closeness. And when we're having these conversations, one of the pitfalls that can happen that causes fear in the hearts of parents is when preteens start asking questions about their faith. And I can even feel my own heart kind of seize up thinking, oh, no, is this it? Are they rejecting our faith? Are they going to, you know, run away? Are they going to, oh, they're going to rebel, all of these things. How do you leave space for their questions, which are developmentally normal, by the way, but also emphasizing biblical truth? You've already done that through modeling the conversation with me, but I'd love for you to just to lean into that a little more and speak to that.
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, it's so important to, make sure that they know that they can come to you with the questions that they have. So I think that is the first key, is you have got to create an environment where your kids aren't afraid to ask you hard questions. so work towards that. And that's done through those conversations, through the fun times, through the relationships, through all these other things. Things. but Making sure that they'll come to you with those questions. And then when they do, make sure, even the questions that curl your toes and scare you to death, that you don't react to them as if you are going into a panic or, you know, you're so angry that they would dare to ask that question. Because what you really want to do as a parent is get to the heart of why they're asking that question. Where is that coming from? What is the disconnect? What do they need to understand better? What do they need to work through audibly so that they can actually come to their own conclusion on it? So by asking questions instead of coming back at them with accusations, it's really, really powerful. David and I have always parented under the rule that questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden the will. So when you're in those difficult conversations, you just want to ask more and more questions, getting to the heart of what's going on. because so often I would see things or I would hear things from my kids that I'm jumping, you know, into the deep end of horror and shock and awe, when actually it's not nearly so bad as I was thinking it was. There's a small struggle there that if I listened and if I gave them the biblical, you know, answer, or I pointed them in the right direction or I reassured them on something, it was able to stay a small thing and they were able to move on.
Sometimes when kids ask questions, we show our emotional reactions instead of responding
so, so often my imagination had created a scenario that was way beyond what I was actually dealing with. But the only way to figure that out is to ask those questions rather than to come at them with accusation. How could you dare ask this? Or whatever the accusation would be?
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, that goes back to what you were saying earlier about responding versus reacting. And so often when they ask those questions, we show our emotional reactions instead of responding them and meeting at their point of need. And, you know, Leslie, it was. My daughter was a little younger, but I remember one day, her asking me, just out of the blue, she asked me, she said, mommy, what's a virgin? And I was like, where did. Where did you hear that word? Like what? You know, what context? And my mind started going a million miles a minute. And she said, well, I heard it on TV here at home. And I'm thinking, what. What was it? Because I was thinking, maybe is it at. At, you know, Christmas story at church? Something like that? And she said, no, it was on this little cartoon show. And I'm still so confused, Leslie. And finally she says, his dad has aversion to cats. And I was like, oh, aversion, aversion. I get it. Okay, so some. But sometimes that really stuck with me. And sometimes I think when our kids ask questions, we just. We react and we go off in a direction that they're not even there. Like, they're not. That's not what they're asking at all. So take. Taking that moment to listen and to respond and not react is so important. And I just wrote down what you said. Questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden the will. That is great advice there. And having them ask those questions. It's developmentally normal for their faith to become their own, for them to struggle with those abstract concepts. And we don't want them just to imitate our behavior. We want them to make that faith their own. But the only way that this is going to happen, Leslie, is if we prioritize it. Like, we have to make this a, priority. So what advice do you have for being intentional? That's right here on the back of your book, Intentional Parenting, Lasting Faith. What is the way to prioritize that and, you know, walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
Leslie Nunnery Yeah, yeah. You know, as parents, we teach what we know, but we reproduce who we are. And so we have got to be very intentional about becoming the man or woman that God has created us to be. Walking close with the Lord, making sure that our relationship with him is solid, that we are growing, that we are faithful, because we are going to reproduce in our children a very similar kind of faith to what we are modeling for them, what we have inside of us. And so as parents, we have a great responsibility and amazing privilege. But also, also it's something that we need to take really seriously, because our kids are watching what we do, not just what we say. And so we need to be very, very certain that we are living out what we hope to see in them one day.
What do you hope readers take away from this book
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, what do you hope that readers are going to take away from this book, from faith that sticks? Because that's a way that you could step forward and be intentional, is to start reading that and looking at those ways that you have through. Of discipling your preteen preaching, prayer, Bible reading, conversations, acts of service, and through building those relationships. You've got some great advice in here for that. But what do you hope that readers are going to take away from this?
Leslie Nunnery I really hope that they. They walk away with hope, with confidence in the fact that they can parent their preteen well, that they can disciple and shepherd their hearts and. And that they will have the. The deepened relationships coming out the other side that both Tricia and I have, by God's grace, been able to enjoy with our kids. we certainly, like you noted, we did not walk perfectly. We made every mistake you can imagine. Our kids were not perfect. But by God's grace, we have really close families still. And as we've entered into the new parenting adult stage, you know, we're just really. It's a very joyful time that it's built on what you do during these younger years. So I want parents to walk away with just the hope that they can do this well, and then just some great ideas that are very practical to get them started. Because I feel like, we gave a lot of just really, really practical tips and ideas that are super easy to implement, but that will get you moving in the direction you want to go.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, give us an example of one of those. Give us a sneak peek.
Leslie Nunnery Okay. All right. Well, we talk a lot. Like I said, I talked about in the conversation section. We talk about just the prioritizing of time with your kids. we talk about the way that even you kind of discipline your kids as they're getting older. How do you engage in those conversations in those difficult times, where you're completely at a loss? We talk about that. We talk about how you can have family devotions, and how you don't need to make it something that's so scary and overwhelming for you. It's a very easy thing that I think that parents over complicate a lot of times. So both Trisha and I talked about how. How we've done it through the years so that we're able to hopefully give you the confidence to do it as simply as we did and to just really enjoy the time with your family. there is just a lot of little things like that through the book.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love that. And it reminds me of one of my favorite scriptures from Romans 15:13. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound. And I think about that, how God is so gracious, Leslie. I really believe that he takes our feeble efforts. He takes that little bit of intentionality that you have, and he blesses it beyond what we can ask or imagine. So I encourage you, if you're in that preteen stage, whether you are a parent, a caregiver, a grandparent, an aunt, an uncle, a coach, whatever it is. Check out, Leslie's book Faith that sticks. Five real life ways to disciple your pre teen it's by Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery and I thank you so much for being here. I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and that he will bless your parenting journey, the mistakes, the wins, and everything beautiful learned in between. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Hello and welcome to the doctor nursemama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have got a great prescription for hope for you. Today we are talking about creating a faith that sticks for us as parents, as grandparents, parents. One of our greatest fears, I think in the world is that our kids are going to grow up and leave their faith. And we see that a lot of kids do that. We know that up to 75% of kids will leave their faith, will denounce their faith, will deconstruct their faith, will, will really reject the values that they were raised on. And we don't want that to happen. And today we're talking about something that is very near and dear to my heart. If you are in the thick of the preteen years right now, we're talking about that age from about 9,8ish. Some people may say, hey, I have a five year old that feels like a preteen up until age 12. If you feel like your once cuddly kid is now moody and mysterious and has 13 moods in 13 minutes and push backs, pushes back on everything, or you feel like you go in to give a hug and it's like hugging a cactus, I want you to take a deep breath because you are not alone. Today we are going to dive into one of the hardest yet the most most sacred, wonderful, special seasons of parenting with someone who has been there too.
5 Real Life Ways to disciple your preteen in today's conversation
Not only me, but our guest today is Leslie Nunnery. She is a M Mom M of 4. She's the co founder of Teach Them Diligently and the co author of the beautiful new book Faith that sticks. Real Life Ways. 5 Real Life Ways to disciple your preteen. And so in today's conversation, she brings experience but also empathy. And that's something I think that's really important. As we talk with preteens, we really need to have some empathy for them because we so want the world to be one way and we want it to be the way that it was when we were growing up in a simpler time where life seemed more laid back and less fearful. But that's just not the reality that our kids and preteens are facing today. And we have to have empathy and lead with courage in that. And Leslie, in reading her book, she's the kind of voice that says Me, too. When you feel like you're failing, it's just like I'm right there with you. But I found hope and healing, and I found some help. So in today's conversation, we're going to talk about how to hold on to that connection when it might feel like your preteen starts pulling away. How do you deal with that? And how grace and prayer and spiritual intentionality can really transform these hard years into wholeness. Holy one. So if you're feeling weary in that parenting journey, we're going to remind you that you've got what it takes, and you do not have to walk this road alone. We are going to walk it with you.
Leslie: I absolutely love preteens. I will share with you that
Leslie, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here.
Leslie Nunnery Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is great to be here. And you and I were chatting a little bit before the show. I told you I would promise not to gush too much about preteens, but I absolutely love preteens. It is such a fun age. I will share with you that I served as a camp nurse for about a thousand kids every summer that were all preteen. So imagine a thousand preteen kids coming out of my nurse's office, and I could not love it more. And there are so many people, Leslie, who just really. They don't mean to, but they speak words of negativity over this so much. You know, it's, Like, I was. I had four teenagers at once. Now my kids are starting to move into that young adult phase, and I would say, you know, I've got four teens. And people would say, like, Lucille Ball. Like, ooh. Like, that's the response that I got. Like, I love Lucy. That yuck. But preteens are so great.
You have a heart especially for preteens with this book
So I want to know what inspired you to write this book? Why do you have a heart, especially for preteens?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, well, that's. That's such a big question, and I'm so glad you asked it, because my heart for preteens goes back to the fact that, like you said, I have parented through that four times. David and I felt like every new phase was our favorite. You know, you go, the newborn stage is so fun, and then it gets better as they learn new tricks and, you know, like, all of these things. Every phase was our favorite, including the preteen phase when we were in it. and so we thoroughly enjoyed that phase, but not without the fear and the bewilderment that everyone else faces. but I find in talking to parents all across the country that so many are actually led by that fear and bewilderment, so much so that it really removes their joy in that stage of parenting. And so that was one of the things that led me to really want to dive in and help parents in that way. But the other thing is there are precious few resources out there to encourage and challenge parents in this stage of parenting. M which again, just kind of feeds that fear, feeds that bewilderment that so many face. and so Tricia Goyer and I really wanted to dive into how to seize these moments. Build on the relationship that you started while your kids were little so that you can increase that foundation for an even better relationship with your teens and young adults. I just, I actually forgot that I, the timing because I was over holding my brand new granddaughter, just a few minutes ago and I rushed back home. But being able to be at my son's house with his five day old daughter and loving on her, that relationship started way back when and it was really strengthened during those preteen years. And I want all families out there to be able to just ride that wave, enjoying even better relationships as your kids get older. And so the way that you approach these preteen years is so important.
Leslie says parenting is one of the only jobs that is super long term
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, amen to all of that and congratulations on having a new grandbaby. New life in the world is so precious. Oh, my goodness. I just love, love, love new little babies. I love preteens. I love kids. You can see that. But you know what, Leslie? You bring up something really important because as you're looking at seeing the seeds that you've planted starting to grow years later, I mean, your, your son is obviously well removed from being a preteen. But I think that's one of the traps that we fall into as parents, is that we live in a world of instant gr and we want our kids to respond to our parenting efforts immediately so that it gives us a feedback loop saying, hey, you're doing a great job as a parent. And that's just not the way that God made us. It's not the way that God made our kids. So we've got to have the faith in the seeds that we're planting that they will grow. And we have to have the patience to work through the eye rolls and the size and the oh, moms that come with that stage of parenting, don't we?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, no question. You know, parenting is one of the only jobs that you'll have that is super long term. But you really, outside of just walking in faith you don't know if it's working. You don't know if it's going to stick until you get there. So you truly have to, as a parent, walk in obedience day in and day out, do the next thing, be faithful in what God has called you to do in strengthening those relationships and passing on your faith, teaching your children diligently and trust that God will make that hold. And so really, our book is to encourage and equip parents to walk faithfully. and then, you know, as you noted, our faith is really tested as we just lay our children at Jesus feet every day and trust that he will keep them and that what we are instilling in them will take root and will stick. because he is good and we can trust him.
Parents can fall into traps of loving their children more than who they are becoming
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, you said something else that I loved. Ah. And just a little bit ago, you said every phase of, and of childhood, you said every phase is our favorite. I think that's another trap that parents can fall into in these preteen years. Not only being frustrated because you're not seeing results of your parenting right away, but also thinking, oh, well, you know, just a few years ago, I was the sun, moon and stars to you. You adored me, you wanted me to be around all of the time. And, and now it just seems like I annoy you. I embarrass you, you know, by doing things like breathing and. Because we can embarrass them. And sometimes I feel like we can fall into the trap of loving our children more, who they used to be, more than who they are becoming. And we give those messages to our kids. Like, we look at picture past pictures with nostalgia, and we say, oh, look, you were so cute. And for a preteen, if you can remember being a pre teen, there's very few pre teens who feel like, oh, yeah, that was my best phase of life. Like, I, I felt so confident, you know, I felt, you know, comfortable in my. They don't feel that way.
Leslie: How did you make every phase your favorite
So I'd love for you to talk a little about that, a little bit more. about how is. How did you make every phase your favorite?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, well, I think some of it is just David and I are just kind of naive. We just kind of went into each new one thinking, it's going to be great. So there is a little bit of that, and I think that's good where you just. Your mindset really does, help with the way that you're entering those new phases. not every phase was easy, not every phase was equal. But we found joy in every Phase because we were just really determined to know our kids. We were really determined to stick close with our kids to keep those relationships really, really strong. we were really determined to pray diligently for our kids. We prayed scripture over our kids constantly. And the Lord answered those prayers by directing our paths and giving us ideas that we had no idea what God would do with them. We just obeyed these little ideas that he would give us. And so we were able to, even through that preteen stage, I tell all the time I remember hearing David talk. Our first two are boys, our second two are girls. And I remember David with our boys in particular, something would happen. And during this phase, all kids are kind of foolish. But guys, it's like their head is detached from their bodies. It's like you just never know what a preteen boy is going to come out with. and our boys were normal preteens in that way. There were things that they did that you're just like, what on earth were you thinking? And I remember sitting back and thinking as David would be talking to them, how much wisdom God gave him. and so another side of the way that God grew our family during that time was he really, really grew me in my appreciation and awe of the way that God was using David in my husband, in the lives of our children as well. So there's just so many different ways that God strengthens your family as your kids are truly morphing from little kids into grown ups. Like this is such a transformational phase and we talk about a lot of the emotional and physical changes that are going on, in the book because I think that that's really important to understand. But as your child is really jumping from little kid 1 minute to 26 year old the next, with kind of the crazy in between, you get to see how God is starting to help them think more, deeply. Nothing is black and white anymore. We kind of joke about the fact that everything becomes multi shades of gray, but actually that's their brain maturing and they're able to think and converse with you on such a deeper level that when you lean into those and really again, stay close to your child, really know what makes them happy, what really turns them on, gets them excited. And you're able to strengthen the relationship by learning more about those things with them. You see that those seeds of relationships just really, really strengthen as they mature and get more complex in the way that they think and live.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, two really important points from what you're saying here, Leslie. One Is that sharing this parenting journey, it is really important to have a support system and it's so great to have one to admire the gifts that God has given your husband. I think sometimes that was helpful for me too because my husband was more logical and, and rational and I could be. Tend to be carried away with the emotions of it all. And I saw God giving us a balance there, you know, where we could do that. And it's important to share it. But one of another trap where I really feeling, convicted about these traps that we can fall into here, Leslie. But one of the traps that we can fall into, I think is sharing that parenting journey online. It's called sharing is the, the, the term that's been given to it. And sometimes we can share those frustrations and just talk about, oh, this was so frustrating. My pre teen does this and I see it happen all the time. But we are curators of our kids digital footprints and we are telling their story. And they're so often my kids will say, let me see your social media. And they go through because they want to see what I'm saying about them. They want to see what I think think about them. And one of the things that I love about your book, Leslie, is that you wrote this with your friend Tricia Goyer. And it's like sitting, reading this book felt like I was sitting down with the two of you. And you're saying, look, sister, let me tell it to you straight. Here's how it goes, here's what I've learned, here's what it's been. And we're coming right up against a, break here. But when we come back, I want to talk about that being how did it was the experience writing this with your friend and knowing that you're not alone. What are those appropriate boundaries for sharing the frustrations and the insecurities that we have? And then, Leslie, we're going to go straight into that question of what, what were you thinking? Here's a spoiler alert. That is a question that was passed down to us in the parenting manual by our parents. But here's the answer. They weren't thinking. Their brains weren't developed yet to think logically. And we have expectations of them that are just not realistic. Listen, we will be right back with with Leslie Nunnery, author of Faith that Sticks five real life ways to disciple your pre teen. We will get really practical when we come back. See you on the other side of this break. Because of listeners like you, preborn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax- deductible gift saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR. this June 24th marks three years since Roe vs Wade was overturned. But here's what you may not know. Abortion numbers have surged to a 10 year high. The battleground has shifted from the courtroom to our homes. Today, over 60% of abortions happen through the abortion pill. Taken in silence, often alone, Preborn network clinics are standing in the gap, meeting women in their most desperate hour. And here's what they're seeing. Young mothers, terrified, misled, are delivering their babies, tiny, perfectly formed onto bathroom floors. These precious babies, once called just tissue, now lie lifeless. 11% of these women who take the abortion pill will suffer serious health complications. Countless others carry emotional scars for a lifetime. When you give to preborn, you're not just saving a baby, you're saving a mother too. You're giving her hope, financial support and the truth. PreBorn has already rescued over 350,000 babies. But there are so many more who need our help. Your tax- deductible gift makes this mission possible. To donate now, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or go to preborn.com/AFR, afr that's preborn.com/AFR. Preborn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year, Preborn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR.
Nobody Loves Me Like You by Chris Tomlin I worship you as long as I am breathing God, you are faithful and true. Nobody loves me like you.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That's nobody loves me Me like you by Chris Tomlin. And today we're talking about maybe somebody who feels like they're not lovable, who feels like they're not worthy of love. We're talking about those pre teen years. And so often, when our kids are the most difficult to love is when they need love the very most. And you may be wondering if you when you've whispered a prayer over them while you're folding their laundry or you wonder if that nighttime devotional really meant anything. If it's going to bear fruit, this is the show for you. And today I'm joined by the delightful Leslie Nunnery, co author of Faith that sticks five real life ways to disciple your preteen. And this is a book that's all about turning those small, ordinary moments of parenting into really powerful tools for spiritual growth. And Leslie's heart for family discipleship is so genuine, so grounded in the everyday. She is a mom. She is a ministry leader. She has spent years walking with families just like yours, just like mine. Family who love God deeply, but a lot of times just feel overwhelmed and under qualified, or maybe just plain tired. This season of parenting can be really tough. And she is here to help us with the message that discipleship doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it does need to be intentional. And you are going to walk away from this conversation with fresh hope and simple, meaningful ways to help your child's faith take root. That's one day, one prayer, one moment at a time. So to catch you up, we have talked about some traps that you can fall into during those preteen years. One is instant gratification, wanting your kids to immediately respond to your feedback like you were an automated assistant that solved their problems so that you can have that feeling that you're doing a good job as a parent. The second would be maybe loving who they are, who they used to be, more than who they are becoming and expressing, even unintentionally, maybe even not even aware that you're doing it. I know I could fall into that trap of saying that this season of parenting is hard and maybe less desirable than other seasons. And the other that we were just talking about is oversharing. Now you need somebody to walk alongside with you. And Leslie was talking about her husband, David. And, Leslie, you wrote this book with your friend Tricia. So talk about what that was like to share your experiences together.
Leslie Nunnery well, Tricia and I have, known each other for many years. We have served together through our events and at other events, and just have a very similar heart for families, but we have very different backgrounds. And so working together on this project was really, really. It was fun because I love her, but it was also really enlightening for both of us because we were able to take the two different backgrounds, the two different family dynamics. Hers has been built in a very different way. Mine is. I have four children. They're all biological. She has, I think 10 and seven of them are adopted through the foster care system. So just very, very different backgrounds and family dynamics, but a very similar heart for our kids and for the families that we're able to serve. So it was a lot of fun to work on. We work really well together. We complement each other really nicely. And but we both learned a lot from each other. And that's been one of the things that's been really fun to come out of this as well, is just the little things that I picked up from her and John and their journey and the things that she's picked up from me and David. has really been helpful as we continue to parent our kids. Now they're getting older, but we are still parenting and also invest in other families that we're able to invest in it at events and through our podcasts and writing and different things. So. So, it was a great experience working with Tricia.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's just always encouraging to know that you're not alone because so often when we start to have these troubles as moms especially, it's very difficult to share it because we don't want to say, like, hey, I'm not getting along with my kid. I definitely had that experience, Leslie. You know, I was really not equipped. I didn't have a good relationship with my mom. And so I had a lot of fear that drove my decisions. And you and I were just talking about that during the break. When all of these hormone shifts and storms start to come, a lot of times our response is fear. And when we see those happen, I see parents many times responding in one of two ways. They either respond in the okay, it's my way or the highway. You live in my house, you obey my rules. I'm just, if you want me to be the tough guy, I'll be the tough guy. Or we have the other end of the spectrum saying, oh, my goodness, I'll give you whatever you want. I'm just desperate for connection with you, so I'll buy you whatever you want. I'll say yes to whatever you want. And I am not judging those because honestly, Leslie, I have been both of those. Like, I have tried both of those. And what I found and what you and I were talking about is a lot of those are driven by fear. So what did you learn as a mom about development, about brain development, about just normal development for kids? And then why this is such a critical time for discipleship and faith and how we can reject that fear based approach?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, yeah. Why? I think that another. Another response to that fear is actually what I fell prey to. And that's where you just get paralyzed. and to where I was, there was a season, and thank the Lord it was a relatively short season. He was very gracious in getting my attention, but I was so afraid of the evils that were out there for my Boys or the different things that they were going to get into or, you know, that, that I was going to lose them or whatever, that I, I didn't engage in conversations that I should have or I wasn't as involved because I was just utterly paralyzed by fear. And that's another response that I think is very easy to fall into. That, the worst thing that you can do for your preteen is to withdraw from them. Because, as we'll talk about looking at their development, preteens are largely very, very insecure. And because of all of these things that are changing in them, their brain is changing rapidly. In fact, the changes in their brain and the development in their brain is what's most responsible for the mood swings and the weird and erratic behavior. You know, we usually chalk it up. Oh, it's just their hormones are changing and yeah, that's happening. But really it's all their brain changes that are driving all of this behavior. And so when all of this stuff is changing and your kids truly don't understand why they're so different than they were before or why all of a sudden they look different or they haven't grown into their arms and legs or whatever it. If mom and dad are withdrawing from them, even if it looks like they're strong arming you and they're trying to push you away, mom and dad, they need you more than ever during this time. You have the privilege of being the one that sits there beside them on the bed as they're crying in frustration and letting them know that they're fearfully and wonderfully made and God didn't make a mistake and they are just the way that God made them and they're growing into the manner or young lady that God created them to be. And you're able to be there to encourage and to be that counselor and that friend in that moment. And again, those living and understanding and being there when your child needs you the most is so impactful in strengthening that relationship and giving you a platform that is authentic and real, that you're able to really pass on your faith in a way that, that will truly stick with them, even through times when they may start pulling on it and seeing, seeing, you know, trying to test the boundaries of things, you still are building that foundation of that relationship that's going to give you much opportunity with them in the days ahead. So understanding what's going on inside of them and then responding to them, not reacting to them, but responding lovingly and intentionally and missionally is going to go a long way towards helping your kids through this phase and then also helping you as a parent through this phase and to build on something for later phases.
So much wisdom and encouragement in what you just shared there, Leslie
Dr. Jessica Peck So much wisdom and encouragement in what you just shared there, Leslie. And you're right. As parents, we. We get kind of traumatized when they. When our kids reach that preteen phase, and then all of a sudden they're acting differently, and we feel like we've been in kind of a little peaceful season and we've gotten into a rhythm and, you know, things are working. And then all of a sudden you have to change strategies. And that trauma response is fight, flight, or freeze. And that's what parents do a lot of times, especially driven by fear. And I really want to emphasize what you said, Leslie, that the worst thing you can do is withdraw. And I want to say that again very loud and clear, because so many parents, they feel pushed away by their preteens, and they let it happen. And that's one of the hardest things that you are called to do as a parent, is to lean in even when it feels like you're being rejected, even when it feels like you're not welcome, because that's not the case. They are in a flight, fright, or freeze state themselves because they're thinking, what do I do in this? And we have to create a relationship where we help them to emotionally regulate. We model to them what that looks like, and then we create safe spaces. And I love what you said about responding versus reacting. So much of what we say is reactive. Like, what do you mean you did that? Like, wait, what do you mean you said that? Why did, why. What were you thinking? What do you think's gonna happen there? Instead of responding? And, you know, you're so right. We have the privilege of sitting beside them. And I would often, my pre teens in this phase, I cannot fix your problem. I wish that I could, but I can't fix it. But I can encourage you to fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith, who, for the joy set before him, endured the cross, despising his shame. And he is sitting at the right hand of God cheering you on right now. He knows this problem that you have. And I think that's so important, so, so, so much wisdom to share there. And a lot of the things that you talk about in this book, Leslie, it's not. And I told you that, you know, I'm married to a rocket scientist, so my kids troll me all the time saying, it's not rocket science, mom, but this is not rocket science, but somehow it's still so hard. And this is such encouraging advice that people need to have.
What are practical ways to engage to build a faith that sticks
Let's talk about those practical ways that you encourage people to lean in, to not withdraw. What are ways to engage to build a faith that sticks?
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, I would love to. yeah. Like you noted, most of or all of these things that we lay out in the book are all kind of common sense. There's stuff that, if you're growing in your faith, you're doing yourself. You're already doing these things. So discipleship is leveraging what God is teaching you on behalf of another. So, you start leveraging these things that God is growing in you and bringing your child into your own faith walk. it's so good for just passing on things very naturally.
Prayer is the foundational habit of parenting, Leslie says
And the first thing that we talk about is prayer. you know, you have probably been praying for your children since before they were born. you know, I know David and I certainly were. But those prayers become more complex. They become more probably desperate as your kids get older. but bringing your kids into prayer, helping them understand that there is a God who loves to talk to them, loves for them to bring their needs to him. you know, the fact that we can go before the God of the universe with every need that we have is astonishing when you stop to think about it. I can't even get in to see the mayor of my little town, let alone. But, you know, but I have free access to the God of the universe. And so did my preteens. And so helping them understand that, looking for things to pray about. And you probably, again, been doing this since your kids were really, really little. You're praying for things as you see them. but you continue that as they become preteens and the conversations just go a little bit deep. So as you pass an accident on the road, you know, we are generally inclined to pray for the people who are in that accident. Then, you know, as the kids are becoming preteens and they're starting to think more complex, they start praying for the rescue workers. They start praying. You know, you just see this kind of developing, and what you're doing is you're instilling in them a habit, a reflex of taking those needs when they see them to the Lord, and then celebrating the way that God is answering them, them. So it's really, really important that even in those moments where, like, you were talking about, where you say, I can't fix this, but I can tell you to fix your eyes on Jesus, that is where you're helping them turn to that conversation, those. Those prayerful moments that they can have with Jesus and helping them see that he is right there listening. He cares about their insecurities and how they just feel like everything is upside down and that he is walking right there beside him every step of the way. So prayer is, is. Is one of those great tools in the hand of a missional parent to help pass on a faith that sticks.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're so right. And teens are looking for authenticity. And you talk a lot about framing this as habits, which we also do on this show, 52 Habits for Healthy families. We talk about those every Friday. And by the way, if you're listening and thinking, wait, I missed that. You can catch up in the doctor, nurse, mama coaching minutes. Just one minute, one habit a week you can stack on top of each other. But, Leslie, the prayer is the foundational habit. We started with that because you cannot parent a preteen in today's world successfully without prayer. I'm just convinced of that. And I think about when, you know, our kids may be going through a challenging season. Maybe they're struggling with something, and we're just feeling that tension, and then all of a sudden they come up to us and they're, hey, mom, how are you? How is your day? Our immediate response is suspicion. We're like, what do you want? Want? Why are you acting like this? And, you know, the thing is, our kids do the same thing with us because sometimes we feel guilty about, okay, well, I know I've been irritable. I know I haven't been as patient. I know, you know, I haven't responded in the best way. So I'm going to be the best parent I can today. And then it's not received, and we just immediately feel deflated and crushed. But I think leaning in and making those habits and just continuing to build them over time, having prayer over time. The other ones are Bible reading and conversation, serving together and really focusing on building that relationship. And in the pages of your book, Faith that Sticks, five real life ways to disciple your pre teen, Leslie, you share so many personal anecdotes. You and Tricia both share stories of things that have gone well, things that have not gone well. But really what you're painting a picture of is being an intentional parent, cultivating these habits over time and again. this is. I can't believe we're already up against another break. We could talk about this all day. I feel so passionate about this. I know you do, too. But when we Come back. I really want to lean into that conversation piece.
One of the most common questions I get from parents is how to talk to kids
So one of the most common questions I get, Leslie, from parents across the country is how do I get my kids to talk to me? How do I get them to open up? And there's a story shared in the book of I, I think, I think it was Trisha, maybe it was you sitting in a spa and having a, a conversation just forth and, and then saying like, wait, oh, not everybody talks like this. It is a skill that has to be worked on. And we'll talk about that. We'll answer that question for those parents who are thinking, I would love nothing more than to have a deep, meaningful conversation with my kid. How do I make that happen? We will tell you about that on the other side of this break and we'll talk about some more real life ways. Disciple your pre team. Listen, they need, need you now more than ever. We'll be right back with more from Leslie Nunnery, a co author with Tricia Goyer. Don't go away. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
The early church fathers viewed the scriptures as divinely inspired
Here's Dr. Carl Trueman from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks.
Dr. Carl Trueman The early church fathers viewed the scriptures as divinely inspired. Often they would use the image of a, musical instrument, as if scripture had been written in the way that, say, notes come out of a flute when it's played by a flute player, as if the, the writer was the flute and the spirit was that which was creating the tune. Certainly they regarded scripture as authoritative. When you look at the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, they're very happy to quote scripture and consider that to have closed down the argument. So obviously, obviously the Apostolic Fathers rooted tremendous authority in the actual words of scripture itself, which implies they had a very high view of its inspiration. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.
See Me Through It by Brandon Heath Things are getting real Jesus, take the wheel. Only way I'm getting to the other side Days are getting dark life's a little hard blinding. But I'm trying not to lose sight. I don't got this. I, know you got this. Yeah. And I'll believe it before I see it. Yeah, I know you're going to see me through it. If anybody can, you can do it. God, I know in the tr. In the play Fire in the rain, you're going to see me do it. You going to see me do it. If anybody can, you can do it. And whenever my heart runs away, you save it. You going to see me through it.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is see me through it by Brandon Heath. That's in my top 10. Yes. I have 87 songs in my top 10 not. Sorry about that, don't care, love music. If you are in that stage of life where you're parenting pre teens and you're thinking things are getting real, Jesus, take the wheel. Then maybe put that song in your top 10 playlist because we're here to encourage you. Today I'm talking with Leslie Nunnery, author, co author, with Tricia Goyer of a, book called Faithful that Sticks. Five real life ways to disciple your preteens. I have had five, I have had four preteens myself going through that stage. As a mom, I've done things terribly wrong. I have learned things along the way. And as we share with you, I think it's, you need to know, at least from my perspective. I'm not sharing with you because I think, oh, I have all the answers. I figured it all out. It is. No, I haven't found all the answers, but I found the courage to share with you how I have failed and how God has provided hope and healing for us a lot. The way we've talked about when the preteen storm hits, that you are not alone and you can build a faith that sticks through those everyday moments. And life with preteens can feel like controlled chaos. There are changing moods, there are big questions that are being asked and even bigger emotions. But what if these chaotic moments, what if you could reframe those to look at them as divine invitations, as an incredible opportunity? And today's guest, Leslie Nunnery, believes that they are. She's here to help us lean into that with courage and purpose. She is the co author of this book, Faith that Sticks. Listen, y', all, this is a refreshingly real guide for building spiritually grounded homes during those often overlooked preteen years, which are so formative. And so we were talking before the break and it was your story, Leslie. I did have it right about the spa and about having conversation. That's such an important skill to work on together. So I'm going to give it to you there and let us tell you, Tell us everything that you learned.
Leslie Nunnery Oh, I would love to. Yeah. That story at the spa, which happened last summer, actually right before we finished this book, it barely eked its way in. but I was at the spa with my newly, ah, married daughter at the time. And, we were having this great conversation and she had talked about how she had a bunch of friends over, she and her husband did the night before, and they were Just shocked about the relationship that she has with her mom. and so as she was telling me that, I was just marveling. But really that spa date, pre or goes way back, it started as a tradition when she was a preteen, when my girls were preteen and she's my older daughter. So when she was just coming into those preteen years, I started taking the girls, girls on birthday dates where we would go somewhere, spend the night. So we had the long car drive there, we'd spend the night, do something that they wanted to do, come back the next day. And, I started doing this with all my kids and it gave me a great one on one time to really get in, see what's in their heart, get to know them even better, invest deeply in something that they love. and show them just, you know, my, my love language, I guess, is time. I love spending time with people, getting to know, you know, much more deeply than surface. So we would, we would spend this time and we did this every year from about the time she was 11, 12 years old. So it was very natural for us to take a birthday date. It's just gotten more expensive as she's getting older. Yeah, but you know, that, that started way back when. And so taking those times to have conversations with your kids is so very, very important. And there are a few things to really keep in mind as you're having conversations with your preteens. Number one, you need to listen and listen intentionally because your kids are going to really struggle to get out what they really want to say. So you may end up having a 45 minute conversation. A lot of our best conversations in our family are on car rides. So I love to take a drive in the evening. I'd grab one of my kids, we'd go get a cup of coffee or a milkshake or whatever and drive, have great conversations. And we'd be talking about nothing, nothing, nothing. And then, you know, the last five, ten minutes you get just this incredible insight into what's in their heart. so as you're having these conversations, don't look at them all as world changing. Look at them all as opportunities to get to the heart of what's really going on inside of them. But that happens by really being interested in what they're interested in, in really being interested in who they are and who they're becoming. and getting, it's very much akin to getting on the floor and playing Legos with your little ones. This is, you know, get in and do the Stuff that really means something to them. Ask them questions, you know, get in there, let them talk. Because everybody likes to talk about themselves. So giving them the opportunity to talk about themselves and just winding your way through these conversations, you're going to get. Get a lot of really great information. And, and you're going to have a lot of great memories, too, from those times where you're just hanging out and conversing. but they're so, so powerful. Those conversation times are.
Dr. Jessica Peck They really are. And a lot of parents worry about what to say, but really, 75% of it should be listening. If you would just sit down and listen. So some, some ways to shift the energy that I recommend for families are go to your preteen and ask them, what would you ask me to do with you if you knew? I wouldn't say no. And you may be surprised. They may ask you to do a little dance from social media, or they may ask you to try something with them or to play a game with them or to go somewhere with them and see if you can make that happen. That's a great way to do that. And, and Leslie, you and I have such similar heartbeat in this. This is what I wrote about in my book Behind Closed Doors, and I gave conversation keys to unlock the heart of your teen. Because that's what we all want to do. We want to unlock the hearts of our teens, and we want to have influence there. We want to have connection and closeness. And when we're having these conversations, one of the pitfalls that can happen that causes fear in the hearts of parents is when preteens start asking questions about their faith. And I can even feel my own heart kind of seize up thinking, oh, no, is this it? Are they rejecting our faith? Are they going to, you know, run away? Are they going to, oh, they're going to rebel, all of these things. How do you leave space for their questions, which are developmentally normal, by the way, but also emphasizing biblical truth? You've already done that through modeling the conversation with me, but I'd love for you to just to lean into that a little more and speak to that.
Leslie Nunnery Oh, yeah, it's so important to, make sure that they know that they can come to you with the questions that they have. So I think that is the first key, is you have got to create an environment where your kids aren't afraid to ask you hard questions. so work towards that. And that's done through those conversations, through the fun times, through the relationships, through all these other things. Things. but Making sure that they'll come to you with those questions. And then when they do, make sure, even the questions that curl your toes and scare you to death, that you don't react to them as if you are going into a panic or, you know, you're so angry that they would dare to ask that question. Because what you really want to do as a parent is get to the heart of why they're asking that question. Where is that coming from? What is the disconnect? What do they need to understand better? What do they need to work through audibly so that they can actually come to their own conclusion on it? So by asking questions instead of coming back at them with accusations, it's really, really powerful. David and I have always parented under the rule that questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden the will. So when you're in those difficult conversations, you just want to ask more and more questions, getting to the heart of what's going on. because so often I would see things or I would hear things from my kids that I'm jumping, you know, into the deep end of horror and shock and awe, when actually it's not nearly so bad as I was thinking it was. There's a small struggle there that if I listened and if I gave them the biblical, you know, answer, or I pointed them in the right direction or I reassured them on something, it was able to stay a small thing and they were able to move on.
Sometimes when kids ask questions, we show our emotional reactions instead of responding
so, so often my imagination had created a scenario that was way beyond what I was actually dealing with. But the only way to figure that out is to ask those questions rather than to come at them with accusation. How could you dare ask this? Or whatever the accusation would be?
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, that goes back to what you were saying earlier about responding versus reacting. And so often when they ask those questions, we show our emotional reactions instead of responding them and meeting at their point of need. And, you know, Leslie, it was. My daughter was a little younger, but I remember one day, her asking me, just out of the blue, she asked me, she said, mommy, what's a virgin? And I was like, where did. Where did you hear that word? Like what? You know, what context? And my mind started going a million miles a minute. And she said, well, I heard it on TV here at home. And I'm thinking, what. What was it? Because I was thinking, maybe is it at. At, you know, Christmas story at church? Something like that? And she said, no, it was on this little cartoon show. And I'm still so confused, Leslie. And finally she says, his dad has aversion to cats. And I was like, oh, aversion, aversion. I get it. Okay, so some. But sometimes that really stuck with me. And sometimes I think when our kids ask questions, we just. We react and we go off in a direction that they're not even there. Like, they're not. That's not what they're asking at all. So take. Taking that moment to listen and to respond and not react is so important. And I just wrote down what you said. Questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden the will. That is great advice there. And having them ask those questions. It's developmentally normal for their faith to become their own, for them to struggle with those abstract concepts. And we don't want them just to imitate our behavior. We want them to make that faith their own. But the only way that this is going to happen, Leslie, is if we prioritize it. Like, we have to make this a, priority. So what advice do you have for being intentional? That's right here on the back of your book, Intentional Parenting, Lasting Faith. What is the way to prioritize that and, you know, walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
Leslie Nunnery Yeah, yeah. You know, as parents, we teach what we know, but we reproduce who we are. And so we have got to be very intentional about becoming the man or woman that God has created us to be. Walking close with the Lord, making sure that our relationship with him is solid, that we are growing, that we are faithful, because we are going to reproduce in our children a very similar kind of faith to what we are modeling for them, what we have inside of us. And so as parents, we have a great responsibility and amazing privilege. But also, also it's something that we need to take really seriously, because our kids are watching what we do, not just what we say. And so we need to be very, very certain that we are living out what we hope to see in them one day.
What do you hope readers take away from this book
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, what do you hope that readers are going to take away from this book, from faith that sticks? Because that's a way that you could step forward and be intentional, is to start reading that and looking at those ways that you have through. Of discipling your preteen preaching, prayer, Bible reading, conversations, acts of service, and through building those relationships. You've got some great advice in here for that. But what do you hope that readers are going to take away from this?
Leslie Nunnery I really hope that they. They walk away with hope, with confidence in the fact that they can parent their preteen well, that they can disciple and shepherd their hearts and. And that they will have the. The deepened relationships coming out the other side that both Tricia and I have, by God's grace, been able to enjoy with our kids. we certainly, like you noted, we did not walk perfectly. We made every mistake you can imagine. Our kids were not perfect. But by God's grace, we have really close families still. And as we've entered into the new parenting adult stage, you know, we're just really. It's a very joyful time that it's built on what you do during these younger years. So I want parents to walk away with just the hope that they can do this well, and then just some great ideas that are very practical to get them started. Because I feel like, we gave a lot of just really, really practical tips and ideas that are super easy to implement, but that will get you moving in the direction you want to go.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, give us an example of one of those. Give us a sneak peek.
Leslie Nunnery Okay. All right. Well, we talk a lot. Like I said, I talked about in the conversation section. We talk about just the prioritizing of time with your kids. we talk about the way that even you kind of discipline your kids as they're getting older. How do you engage in those conversations in those difficult times, where you're completely at a loss? We talk about that. We talk about how you can have family devotions, and how you don't need to make it something that's so scary and overwhelming for you. It's a very easy thing that I think that parents over complicate a lot of times. So both Trisha and I talked about how. How we've done it through the years so that we're able to hopefully give you the confidence to do it as simply as we did and to just really enjoy the time with your family. there is just a lot of little things like that through the book.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love that. And it reminds me of one of my favorite scriptures from Romans 15:13. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound. And I think about that, how God is so gracious, Leslie. I really believe that he takes our feeble efforts. He takes that little bit of intentionality that you have, and he blesses it beyond what we can ask or imagine. So I encourage you, if you're in that preteen stage, whether you are a parent, a caregiver, a grandparent, an aunt, an uncle, a coach, whatever it is. Check out, Leslie's book Faith that sticks. Five real life ways to disciple your pre teen it's by Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery and I thank you so much for being here. I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and that he will bless your parenting journey, the mistakes, the wins, and everything beautiful learned in between. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Leslie Nunnery, co-author of "Faith That Sticks: 5 Real-Life Ways to Disciple Your Preteens" joins Jessica to talk about practical ways to connect and guide preteens.
Rx for Hope: Create a Faith that Sticks
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