Jeff Chamblee: Hello, and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we have been talking a lot about the holidays approaching. I. I am not trying to pressure you into decorate for Christmas yet. If you are one of those after Thanksgiving adherence, that's completely fine. But there are a lot of things that we can do to start to prepare our hearts for the holidays, even if our homes are not yet there. That is okay. But it is a great opportunity right now, before the rush of everything, to think with some intentionality about the holidays. What do you want them to look like? What do you want your schedule to look like? What do you want the pacing to look like? We've been talking about Operation Christmas Child, which we will be, continuing to talk about. It's time to pack your shoe boxes. And we've been talking about ways to prepare your home from your pantry to your guest room.
This program is about preparing your heart for facing grief during the holidays
And today we're really going to talk about preparing your heart with a tender topic, but one that is so real for so many of us, and that is facing grief during the holidays. My guests today actually were on the show back on April 3rd 30th. Now, if you want to go back and listen to that, please do, because we talked about grief, and during that time, I said, you've got to come back before the holidays so that we can have a conversation about facing grief at the holidays. And they graciously agreed to do that, and it has happened, and here they are. So whether this is your own personal grief journey or you're supporting someone who you know is having a tough time with loss during the holidays, which can present just some really difficult decisions to navigate. And a lot of people who are supporting other people who are grieving, they want to be supportive. but sometimes you just have a fear of knowing what's the right thing. What do you do? How do you navigate those things? So, regardless of wherever you are, this program is going to encourage you and equip you and empower you to help respond to grief during the holidays.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague discuss grief during the holidays
Now, my guests that were here on April 30th who are back today are Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague. Erin is the founder and executive executive director of Jessica's House, which is a grief support center for children and families. And she shared her story when she was here before about the tragic loss of her husband, her mother and her son. This woman has walked a path of grief and she's learned the importance of grief support for and teens. And she's an advanced certified trauma practitioner through the National Institute of Trauma and Loss in Children. And she's been supporting grieving families for more than 20 years and is doing that through her grow, growing and thriving ministry of Jessica's House. And Colleen is joining her as well and is a licensed marriage and family therapist and director of community outreach for Jessica's House. And she supports parents and their children after a death in the family. They wrote a book about this, which we have shared before. And I think it's really wonderful resource for those who are struggling with this. It's called when grief Comes home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child. And that's what we talked about, before. And today we're going to just dive into some of those special considerations about grieving during the holidays. So, Erin Colleen, thank you so much for agreeing to come back. I'm so grateful to have this dynamic duo back with us today.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Thanks for having us, Jessica. Yes, thank you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I am so glad to have you here. Let's just dive right in and talk about why the holidays amplify grief in a different way. Why it just all of a sudden seems heavier to carry. It seems like maybe there are more triggers that, that trigger your feelings of grief or memory or things that are harder to walk through. Why is that harder? And I'll just let whoever wants to start you just jump right in.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Jessica. You know, I just thinking about how we just got through our very first holiday, which was Halloween. And that can be so difficult, for parents who are either grieving their spouse or partner or their child and seeing those intact families maybe around the neighborhood and missing someone in your life. And many times grieving families and grieving parents will really tell us that Halloween was the very first holiday that they were like, wow, we didn't know that this would be so tough. And so much of the time we're going right into the time change and you know, friends and neighbors, they go inside a little earlier and maybe m the supporters that you naturally had when it was light until 8 o' clock in the evening, they're going in and you can feel a lot more alone. And so just the holidays, you know, as. And then we start looking toward Thanksgiving and Christmas and starting to really dread that and wonder how will we get through it? What now that this person is missing from our family.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Erin I really appreciate you just normalizing that. And so for people who are experiencing grief, just knowing they're not alone, that that is a very normal experience. And even as you describe something you wouldn't expect to affect you in a way, but seeing intact families in a, in a way that you realize your family will never be the same or never be that way again, that can be really, really hard. And in the book, I would love, Colleen, for you to answer this. In the book, you talk about this concept, about the energy of love that you once directed towards your loved ones that now has nowhere to go. Can you talk about that? Because I think that plays a lot into the holidays. Things that favorite dishes that maybe you would make for someone who is no longer there, or a gathering where that person is not there. You're not buying gifts for that person. There's just this kind of absence there. Can you explain that to us, Colleen?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. Erin has always said that their absence is the loudest voice in the room and that you really notice all of the different ways that they're not present. And you likely had so many different traditions that you used to be excited to enter into during the holiday season, but now those are just reminders that life really isn't going to be the same. Even if you do the same traditions, their absence is the loudest voice in the room. Excuse me. But there are things that we can do with that energy. There are ways that we can continue to honor them and remember them. You know, one thing that one mom did was, you know, she didn't have her son stocking to fill, but she put extra gifts in her daughter's stocking instead just to. To do something with that energy, that desire to give to her son. She, you know, moved it to another person that could receive that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a beautiful idea. I think it's so hard to give yourself space to develop new traditions around the holidays because there's some that feel sacred, but it feels. Feels this odd sort of floating space where, you know, that you're not going to. It's not going to be the same. But having that energy to put forward to make it different can be really difficult to do. But I love the story that you share about how that could look. And Erin as we've said, you know, you have walked this path of loss and grief so intimately. And in the book, you share about a specific Thanksgiving, your first Thanksgiving. And as we were talking about Thanksgiving coming up, would you share that with our listeners today?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. I remember, it was one of our Thanksgivings. And, you know, the first year, I didn't have really the energy to host Thanksgiving, which normally I do as just, you know, the mom and I have adult children, and, just everybody comes over. But, you know, as the Thanksgivings have gone on and when I finally did find the energy to host again, what I really noticed was that, you know, Carter's absence was really on the shoulders of every single person in the room. And even as we, welcome people into our home, they're feeling that acute sense that someone's missing. And even as we do, I think what the. A phrase that I've learned to kind of lean into is really being with what remains, because you're holding gratitude for who's there. And at the very same time, the weight of who's missing is so palpable. And so being able to just acknowledge that and to say we're missing them, to maybe go around the table and share a memory or do a toast in their honor is so important. And so as we, not only face maybe the very first holiday, which many of your listeners may be facing, their very first holiday without the person, but even as subsequent holidays go, being able to continue to grieve them and also be grateful for what is with you is so important. And, And so just holding both.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Erin as you're describing that, I'm so glad you said that you didn't have the energy to host that first year. I think that's important, to give yourself permission in that way. Just to say, I don't. I can't do it. But as those people are coming in, I'm wondering how the we of that felt, because you're carrying your own grief, and yet, you feel some sort of obligation, like you're grateful that they're grieving with you, but also the weight of that. How did that feel? How do you. How do you navigate the tension of that, of being so acutely aware of someone else's shared grief, but also stewarding your own?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I think the only way is to just be present to how you're feeling inside and to, be just honest at times, to be able to say, ha, like, this feels really heavy right now, and I'm feeling this. I can remember one time after Carter died, and I was just with my daughter, we were watching holiday movies, and it was just like our favorite thing to do, to just grab blankets and just get on the couch. And, you know, I. I started feeling just, like, really, really sad. And you Know, just to be honest about that. And also I really needed to just get it out. And so I kind of just went in the other room and cried and just like really felt that and then entered back in. And I think honoring the energy of your grief, it has to come out. You have to find a way to express it. And that is really the way we move into the next moment, is to feel the energy of, it. What does, and then to express it and move into the next moment. And I think that's how we get through the holidays, is really moment by moment, being honest and expressing, yourself.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree. You gotta give yourself grace and space to be human. And so many of the things that you're talking about, Erin are physical manifestations of grief, which sometimes we connect, to our grief, and sometimes we don't connect to our grief. But you were talking about, you know, just even feeling like you needed to cry. And it's amazing how God has even made our tears where we have different kinds of chemical compositions for our tears that are therapeutic for us. But sometimes it's hard to give yourself permission because I think it at the holidays, a lot of times you feel a pressure. You were talking about being with your daughter. I'm sure you felt like, well, I need to be happy for her. You know, you don't want her entire Christmas to be overshadowed by grief. But, in all of these situations, you've been really talking about listening to your body. And Colleen, for you, as a therapist, I would love for you to make that connection for us, that psychosomatic connection. And how do we listen to our bodies and how. And pay attention to how we're physically grieving and let that inform the decisions that you might be making.
What can you do to bring some energy into your body if you need it
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. So to start with that, doing just a little check in with your body, a little body scan where you can sit in quiet and just notice, notice what your body's telling you. You know, are you really tired? Do you need to take some rest? Do you. Are you feeling a little, like, energized within? Maybe. Maybe there's anger, there's big energy that you need to help move out of your body. And there's so many different ways that we can express any of those energies within. And one of my favorites is bilateral movement, which is a fancy way for saying just moving both sides of your body. And we do that naturally through walking. And so taking a quick walk around the block. it doesn't have to be quick. It can be as slow as you need it to be. But a walk around the block. It's that fresh air. It's moving both sides of your body. And when you move both sides, your brain starts talking together your right and left hemisphere. And then your brain is more aware of how you are feeling and what you need to do with that feeling. And so as you learn what helps you these coping skills, Big energy in our body usually needs big energy to express it. So whether that is my favorite is just shaking it out. Taylor Swift really knew what she was talking about with that song. You can think of her but just shaking your whole body, arms and legs moving that energy. Or maybe you notice you have very, very low energy, which is very common with grief. What can you do to bring some energy into your body if you need to get moving?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Those are great tips. And we're already at our first break and when we come back, we'll talk some more specifics about handling some holiday gatherings and how to manage grief when you have children in your home. We'll be right back.
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When we approach grief at the holidays, it can be really difficult
And as we're approaching the holidays, I encourage you to do just that. Some of you, as you are approaching the holidays are Coming carrying a heavy load. You are walking a road of grief. Maybe it's fresh, maybe it's been a long time, and yet somehow feels so fresh. And when we approach grief at the holidays, it can be really difficult. There's lots of complicated emotions. And I'm talking today to two guests who know this road very well. We have Erin Nelson, the founder and executive director of Jessica's House, a grief support center for children and families. She has lost her husband, her mother, her son walked through grief. And Colleen Montague, a licensed marriage and family therapist and a director of community outreach for Jessica's House. They wrote a book called When Grief Comes Home, A Gentle Guide for living through loss while supporting your child. And, Erin you and I were just talking in the break about how difficult this is when you have children. And you just described, you know, after, losing your son and, and sitting with your daughter and feeling like she still has a Christmas experience, and you still feel like you want to be present. You don't want her to have to bear the weight of that grief. And yet that is the reality of what your family is facing. And so I would love for you to talk about that. Just some of the emotions that kids might have about the holidays and when parents and kids might have conflicting emotions or how do you navigate that as children and adults grieve differently?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, so children and adults do grieve differently, and I think every single person in the family is grieving differently. So being able to establish that. That, you know, everyone grieves differently, and we're all going to feel differently about the holidays and even traditions that we maybe want to keep or those that we want to pause for now, and having a conversation with your kids, starting with what's important to you and finding out what's important to each person in the family and. And then honoring each person's desires and being able to talk openly about it, because for some, it might be too painful to bake mom's favorite cookies if she's no longer here. And for another person, that might be exactly what they need. And so whatever it is that they want to keep or let go of, being able to talk about it open and find out what's important and then continue to revisit that. And just those family conversations are very important. And also realizing that you don't have the energy that you once did. And, just even as you may have invitations to family or friends, talk to the kids about what is important and can we make a plan and do we have, like, a little code Word for if someone is feeling like, okay, I'm really done, and I need to go home now. And can we just even establish with our hosts that, hey, we may have to leave early? But, that's just because we're taking really good care, of ourselves right now because we're healing, and we need to reserve some energy for that and to just talk about it and make a plan. Drive separately when you can and just have a little extra exit strategy as needed.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Erin that is so wise, because the contrary of that is the contrast of that is to apologize profusely. Oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry we have to leave. I. I don't want to ruin it. You know, all of those things that you can imagine people saying and that I'm sure we've all experienced to some extent, but the way that you just said that so confidently and naturally, it set you up for success, you know, and saying, hey, I want to let you know ahead of time, we might leave early. And that's just because we're taking good care of ourselves. That's such a. To frame that.
Everyone grieves differently, and even children grieve differently from adults
And, Colleen, I want to ask you about the siblings, because, as Erin said, you know, everyone grieves differently. Children grieve differently from adults, and even children grieve differently from children. We know that children at different developmental ages have dramatically different understandings of death in terms of permanency, in terms of, you know, the emotional involvement. And I see a lot of times families whose children are grieving differently, and it can set up some conflict between siblings, whereas one sibling, you know, may appear to be happier, to be coping well, and another sibling could say, well, it seems like you don't even care. And that sibling may think, well, I don't understand how you're grieving. How.
Dr. Jessica Peck: What advice do you have for navigating that and helping explain that different grieving process and giving everyone grace and space to grieve in their own way.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Such a good point. And I think it's just a lifelong conversation you are probably going to have with your family. Just that everybody's doing this differently, everyone's feeling a little differently or grieves differently, or it may look different, but we all miss daddy, huh? Huh? Or we all miss brother, huh? Huh? You know, we all feel we're missing this person. It's just going to look different for everybody, which means there's different things that are important for one versus the other. So let's talk about it and just creating this dialogue. And the nice thing is, is you're really setting up a foundation that you are here to talk about it. And there's nothing wrong with how anybody is feeling. And, you're going to try and listen to everybody as a family to see what's important to some and what might be important to others. And that's going to be a conversation you're going to revisit in different ways long after the holidays.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that can be really hard to do. And there may be some kids who feel badly. They may even feel shame if they feel excited about something. Maybe they see, oh, well, you know, mommy's still really sad. Like, I, I don't know if I can feel happy. I feel bad about that. And they kind of, you know, feel like it. There's a limitation maybe or a restriction on their emotions and they're suddenly socially aware of those. How do you speak into that? And, and, and that the weight and the tension of feeling joy, but also still feeling the weight of that loss.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, you can really, really miss your mom. And you can also be excited that it's almost Thanksgiving or that you got invited to a birthday party. There are so many times in our life where we're going to hold more than one emotion at the same time. That's what we can do as humans. And we had a little boy once in the program teach us. his word for it was sappy. Sometimes he was happy and sad at the same time. And so when we can just normalize that for kids and let it be okay, it stops that, ah, potential shame cycle from starting that it's okay to feel both. It doesn't mean that you miss them any less. You're just a human.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that's important because grief is not a linear journey. It's not like kids, you know, continue to progress and heal and get better every day and get stronger every day. Sometimes you may just have a reminder that feels like it sends you backwards or a new circumstance that you didn't anticipate. And it's a looping kind of messy back and forth journey. And I think that that is important to emphasize, like, it's okay that you were okay the last two days and that you're not okay today. It's okay to not be okay. Erin what would you add to that? Because I think the other thing that really weighs into this is feeling the weight of those traditions as we were talking about a little bit in the first segment, and feeling, you know, navigating all of those emotions and feeling like, like which ones should you keep? Which ones should you let go where should you create new ones? How do you even begin a conversation with your kids about that?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I think just starting kind of where you are by, just saying, you know, what is important. And these are all of the traditions that we've done before, and which one feels really important to you right now? And, you know, also, like, which ones can we let go of? Something that some people have said they've done is they used to get a really big Christmas tree, and it was just all decorated. And, they decided to just get a small one, and they just brought out the ornaments that were really important to them. And even they had a ceremony with, ornaments that reminded them of their person. And, those are the ones that got hung on the tree that year and none of the other ones. And so they just changed their tradition around the tree. And I think something that you said, Jessica, about two days ago, you may feel one way, and, you know, now you feel differently knowing that every person in the family is also experiencing that. So we're kind of in our not okay ness all at different times. And so, first of all, really holding on to the hope that however I'm feeling right now, even if it feels very dark and stormy, and we may just think, like, will I ever feel better? You'll. You will not feel this same way forever. And so holding on to the hope that you can breathe into the next moment again as you express it, and as you move that energy out of your body, you can get to that next moment and also give each other grace that. That whatever that might be that someone else is holding in that moment, they'll also move through that. And so we're all moving through those really tough moments at different times. And so it can look a little chaotic, right? It can look a little chaotic, all grieving in the same family, but doing it differently at different times. And every person in the family had a different relationship with the person who died. So that's another complexity that adds something to the dynamic because, you know, one child may have known dad in one certain way, and another child knew him in a different way, and he filled a role for them that was totally different, different than another child. And so they're also grieving parts of dad very differently. And so even according to their age and, their age of development, and so it's just such a messy process, but one that God is in and that he will help families navigate. And it's, it's just really holding hope that you're not going to always feel the way you do in this very moment. And we will get through as a family, we're going to get through to the next moment.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that the most important thing that both of you are saying just over and over again, that sounds so simple but can be so difficult to do, is just to hold everything so loosely and just to give everybody a lot of grace and space. You said it well, Erin Grief is messy. It is really messy. And the holidays are often not messy. They're very carefully curated, they're very scheduled. And you feel this obligation to participate in things that you've participated before to do things that you had done before. But I think just giving everybody grace, saying, hey, if you, if you need to have a breakdown and you need to cry, like that's okay. We're, I'm going to sit here with you through it and if you feel like you have the energy to do it, then that's okay. And just giving them that freedom to grieve, I think is, is a really, really wonderful gift. And Erin is.
You can model healthy grieving by being there for your child during holidays
And I know this is something that, you know, you have lived so personally, but experiencing grief and loss and having a child at home is really hard because you feel like you've got to take care of that child, but you really have to take care of yourself. And how do you, how do you balance that? Because I do think, you know, sitting. From my perspective as a health professional, I know that kids see their own security through your security. If you're emotionally unwell, they feel unsafe. If you're physically unwell, they feel unsafe because you are their source of security. What are ways that you have, what are tips that you have to really take care of yourself as an adult during that season. And not just to say, okay, I'm just going to sacrifice, I'm just going to give everything because that often doesn't work out that well. What's, what's your experience and what have you learned from your ministry?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: You know, I think you can model healthy grieving and we talked a little bit earlier about tears. That is one of the best ways back to regulating your nervous system. There's not much that can regulate your nervous system like a good cry. And it's just an amazing part of how we are made up chemically. And so modeling healthy grief. You can grieve in a healthy way and cry and also be a safe container for your child and also get to that next moment and, and be that person that can co regulate them and their emotions. So as we're expressing ours and healthy Ways we can also be there for them. We can model healthy grieving and be with them and their grief to help them learn how to grieve in a healthy way and to openly mourn. And because I had mom one time say my child was worth every tear, I cry. And so grief is. Yeah, it's one of those. Like, our grief represents our deep love for who's missing. And this is just an expression of our love. And so knowing that we can be very emotionally healthy and that is a sign of emotional health, that we're expressing ourselves, that we're holding multiple emotions at the same time and so. And continue to also be a very safe container for our child.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Colleen, what would you add to that?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Oh, I. I'm glad you asked because I thought, man, it also just shows your child that the tears won't last forever, you know, and so it's okay to cry in front of your child. They get to see that, it's okay to cry. They see you expressing, and then they also notice when you stop, and then you're able to move into your next moment and maybe 20 minutes later you're a little lighter. So that, I think is such a good example for your child that it's okay to go there, because a storm never lasts forever. Not going to stay in that place of sadness forever. It just goes along with what grief is, which is just these waves of grief that don't last in that intensity all the time.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think the other thing that's really hard to do for people who are grieving is accepting help, because there may be other people who, your children can go and enjoy holiday activities with them or can help pick up the, tradition or just doing some of those things that you want your kids to have those experiences, but maybe you just don't have the energy for all of that. And so leaning on your support group can be really, really hard to do. And especially when there's other expectations of grief. Maybe it's been a long time and people think, oh, this is still hard for you. It's hard to be vulnerable. When we come back, we'll take talk some more about that and we'll also talk about creating some meaningful rituals. Rituals are really good rhythms, traditions to have at the holidays to help families to have a sense of identity and a sense of coping and unity. We'll talk more about grieving in the holidays. The book is called When Grief Comes Home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child while be right back on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no, she stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
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As we approach the holidays, for those grieving, grief can be difficult
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is rest for your soul by Austin French and as we approach the holidays, for those who are navigating a path of grief, it can be hard to find rest for your soul. It can feel anything but restful. There are often sleepless nights that come with grief. There are all often moments of longing, of just such intense longing, longing for what was and at the same time, what never will be. But we can find hope in a, God who loves us, who cares for us so deeply, who is so close to the brokenhearted. And as you're starting to navigate the path to the holidays, there are many who are listening, who have either experienced grief and loss themselves and are navigating that as a family or, you know, a family who has. I was just sharing with our guest today, Erin Nelson. Colleen Montague, authors of, When Grief Comes Home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child that for some reason, for the last two years. I've been to more funerals in the last two years than I've been in my whole life. It just seems like I am surrounded by people who are grieving. And I've had grieving experiences myself and losing my very beloved grandmother, who was really more like a mother to me. I lived with her all during nursing school. And I remember Erin and Colleen, the first Christmas without her. And I remember the anticipation of it was really difficult because she passed away in the fall. And so it was very close to Christmas. And she. This woman, let me tell you, she loved Christmas like, I have never seen anyone love Christmas ever. And she passed that down to me. So. So every Christmas memory I have was just absolutely tied to her. Everything from baking to Christmas Eve to going to church and everything. And I remember just feeling this weight of, how am I going to steward the season with my kids? Because, you know, I. I didn't know what would bring me into tears or, what would, you know, make me, have a moment where I'd need to take a moment. And I remember thinking, I don't want every part of Christmas to be sadness. And that anticipation was. Was really difficult. So, Erin what would you say to families in that season of. We're approaching it and they're thinking, okay, it's coming. I don't really know what I want to do, how I'm going to handle this. I want to handle it well, I don't know the. My physical or emotional limitations. What would you say about handling that? Anticipation.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, the anticipation. And earlier, Colleen was talking about the storm never lasts forever. I think God has put these rhythms and, just. Even on the earth, even just with waves. You know, you have this building, right? You just have this building. And in the building, you're looking at a wave and you're thinking, like, how big is it going to be? You know, will it. You know, will it overtake me? And, then, you know, it's. Then you have the peaking, and then there's the receding. And so I think trusting, that with the anticipation of the holidays, first of all, God will be with you, like in those waves of grief. Trusting that his presence will sustain you and also knowing that it will recede. The. You know, the 26th will come and you will get through breath by breath through the holidays and just trusting that you will get to the other side. Some people just say, I'm just going to survive it. Other people might find unexpected little glimmers of warmth where they just had a moment where they felt presence and a little bit of okayness that surprised them. But just to know that, you know, as we breathe through it and we're with it, we're gonna get through it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so helpful. And I.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And really, rhythms are such an important part of that. And creating rituals, honoring traditions. And one of the things that my Kids did for me is my. My granny loved to have a good tea party. And so she had made all of the girls a, really, like an old fashioned kind of hat hat that had a little brooch on it and we put flowers on it. Every girl got to pick their own color of artificial flowers and we hot glued them. It was a good arts and crafts project. And. And she always had this shawl that she wore. And so after she passed away, we have a tea to honor her and we have a chair that is her chair. We put her hat on the chair, we put her shawl on the chair. We use the tea set that she gave us. And just feeling the comfort of her presence is so good. And knowing that my kids know, I'll cry about 47 times throughout the tea. I will be okay. And I think these kinds of rhythms and rituals and traditions are really important part of the healing journey.
How can you bring your deceased loved one into the present moment through traditions
Colleen, what can you tell us from a therapy side of that, how they help us.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I love what you shared about your granny. Just how can you bring her into the present moment? You know, through her memory and through traditions that she appreciated, traditions that make you feel connected to her still. And that's how we encourage our families to do, you know, how can you bring your person into the present moment? We've had families that do a Christmas tree, and everybody that comes brings an ornament that reminds them of that person, whether it's a characteristic or a memory that they had. And they've gone around the room and shared that collectively. And I think that's what it comes down to is this collective experience when you have these rituals or ceremonies that when you are together with others, to hold that with. There's so much power in that, to feel held and to bring that person back into the space through their memories and through, you know, your individual connections to them. Like Erin mentioned earlier, we all had a different little relationship with that same person. And so continuing to just share that with the others that loved them just as much as you did, we also talk about like a memory stocking, you know, doing that too, dropping in a written memory or something that you really miss about them to be read collectively together on Christmas Eve or Christmas morning. Again, bringing that person into that present space through their memory.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I love that. I think of a, friend I have who lost her husband at a young age. And it's that grief is so tender and as someone on the outside, you can see it. And I think there's a lot of times that people are just very well intentioned. They think, oh, I don't want to bring up that person that passed away because I don't want to upset you. I don't want to make you upset. But I remember one time specifically saying something about her husband after he had passed away, and she just grabbed my arm and she just said, thank you so much for giving me the gift of his presence. You just gave me the gift of his presence. You just brought him into the moment and. And he's here with us in some way and, you know, just reminding that his legacy mattered. And it really, it encouraged me, I think that you, you are almost. I'm, everyone is different. But I'm going to say I would rather err on the side of that. Just saying, hey, that person was special. Marking their presence and saying something about them bringing into that could be a really good gift for someone. And Erin I know you've been working at Jessica's house in your ministry with, with people who are creating these rituals, memories, traditions, rhythms that they have. And one of those is the candlelight ceremony. Can you tell us about.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's see. Hold on just a minute. I think that we see, Colleen, do you want to speak into that? I think, we've lost Erin for just a minute. Okay, go ahead.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, I would love to. You know, we have this ceremony that we do every winter time, on our last group night with our families. And we encourage them. They can gather together as a family. We do it with them in person. And we light four candles and then we share this. We light this candle in your memory. We will never forget the times we laughed or disagreed, the fun times or the memories we made. We carry you with us always. We light this candle for love. We remember our love for you and yours for us. May the love you brought into this world shine in us for each other. We light this candle for the emptiness we feel without you. You. The pain of missing you reminds us of the depth, of our love for you. We wish you were here with us and we remember you. We light this candle for hope. We remind ourselves that feelings are not forever. When living without you feels like too much. May we trust we will feel hopeful again as we acknowledge the emptiness and honor your memory. May we find moments of hope and gratitude for the light of your life, love. And we just bring that same ceremony back every year, year after year and do with our families. It's, a become an anchor here at, Jessica's house and something we hope that can become an anchor for other families, too, who want to bring their person into the present moment, but just aren't always sure how to do.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It, I think that's really helpful to do because you want to have that memory, but to have that structure, to have that opportunity just to take a moment, moment to acknowledge the grief and loss that you've experienced. I think it's very. It's very easy for families who are living in such a fast world today. It's like everything is expected to be fast. Everything is instant gratification. We don't have a lot of tolerance or patience for emotions that persist. And grief is definitely an emotion that persists. And if you think about all of the ways that culture just. Just really trains us for instant gratification and instant resolution of things. How do you speak to that, Colleen, as a therapist and helping families to understand and accept that grief can be a very long journey and something that doesn't go away right away. How do you find grace for yourself in that moment? Thinking, you know, I should be over this by now. And, and. But really just being grief comforted in whatever stage of grief you're in.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. We certainly do live in a culture of good vibes only, and we don't like to feel pain. But what we say is that the only way through it is to go through it, is to allow yourself to feel those emotions and express them as opposed to just pushing them away or pushing them down. And so as you lean into all of the different ways you can express your grief, you will start to find those moments, those. Those times of healing. But we say you'll never be healed, because the reality is, is that if you love your person who died, you're going to miss them forever. So you're going to grief their absence forever, and it's going to continually morph and look different in time when, as you grasp your children grow up, they're going to miss their mom or their dad or their sibling in a new way in a different way that they wouldn't realize at the very beginning. And so that's okay just to know are setting a good foundation now for how to hold and. And welcome grief as it arises, to sit with it, acknowledge it, and to express it so that then you can ride into the next moment.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Colleen, I remember in, in a season of grief that I was experiencing, I remember just praying and asking the Lord, lord, when am I going to be okay? Like, when am I going to be okay again? When is this going to be okay? And I just felt God speak back to me and say, no, the question is really, when are you going to be okay with not being okay? That's where you need to be. Because it's never going to be the same again. It's never going to be the same. But I can still find hope. And that's really hard to release your control to God's sovereignty, to realize that he is in control and realize so many things are above his understanding. I say this quote all the time. If God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. And there's some things that we just don't understand. And Erin I think we have you back now. I'll let you go ahead and okay that I let you go ahead and just share whatever's on your heart based on what we've been talking about.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, you know what, what you're talking about with God not being understood, there's just so much mystery. And I think just during the holidays, sitting in the mystery of, I had someone say to me today, just, you know, their daughter had died in an accident and she said, we don't understand why, you know, she died. And we have another family member who is like ending like at the end of their life and they're like, we wish that it would have been me. And because, you know, I've lived a really long life and there's this mystery there in this family and they were just talking openly about what, is that like to hold that. And that's really hard, too because we don't understand. It's just we, we can understand and to be with somebody in that and to not try to fix it and not try to explain it, but just to sit with it is really hard, to do, but it's so important.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm so grateful to both of you for sharing your insights. Again, if you know someone who's grieving and there is a child in of front involved, this is a great resource for you. When grief comes home. A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child. We're so grateful to Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague for sharing with us their experience, their expertise and most of all, hope and comfort and knowing that you are not alone.
Think about ways your family can be a blessing this holiday season
I'd love to ask you to really pray about who God would have you ministered to, who might be grieving and what you could do to be a special encouragement to them during this holiday season. That's a great way to prepare for Christmas and to think about a way that your family can be a blessing for other. And whether grieving or not, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Jeff Chamblee: Hello, and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we have been talking a lot about the holidays approaching. I. I am not trying to pressure you into decorate for Christmas yet. If you are one of those after Thanksgiving adherence, that's completely fine. But there are a lot of things that we can do to start to prepare our hearts for the holidays, even if our homes are not yet there. That is okay. But it is a great opportunity right now, before the rush of everything, to think with some intentionality about the holidays. What do you want them to look like? What do you want your schedule to look like? What do you want the pacing to look like? We've been talking about Operation Christmas Child, which we will be, continuing to talk about. It's time to pack your shoe boxes. And we've been talking about ways to prepare your home from your pantry to your guest room.
This program is about preparing your heart for facing grief during the holidays
And today we're really going to talk about preparing your heart with a tender topic, but one that is so real for so many of us, and that is facing grief during the holidays. My guests today actually were on the show back on April 3rd 30th. Now, if you want to go back and listen to that, please do, because we talked about grief, and during that time, I said, you've got to come back before the holidays so that we can have a conversation about facing grief at the holidays. And they graciously agreed to do that, and it has happened, and here they are. So whether this is your own personal grief journey or you're supporting someone who you know is having a tough time with loss during the holidays, which can present just some really difficult decisions to navigate. And a lot of people who are supporting other people who are grieving, they want to be supportive. but sometimes you just have a fear of knowing what's the right thing. What do you do? How do you navigate those things? So, regardless of wherever you are, this program is going to encourage you and equip you and empower you to help respond to grief during the holidays.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague discuss grief during the holidays
Now, my guests that were here on April 30th who are back today are Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague. Erin is the founder and executive executive director of Jessica's House, which is a grief support center for children and families. And she shared her story when she was here before about the tragic loss of her husband, her mother and her son. This woman has walked a path of grief and she's learned the importance of grief support for and teens. And she's an advanced certified trauma practitioner through the National Institute of Trauma and Loss in Children. And she's been supporting grieving families for more than 20 years and is doing that through her grow, growing and thriving ministry of Jessica's House. And Colleen is joining her as well and is a licensed marriage and family therapist and director of community outreach for Jessica's House. And she supports parents and their children after a death in the family. They wrote a book about this, which we have shared before. And I think it's really wonderful resource for those who are struggling with this. It's called when grief Comes home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child. And that's what we talked about, before. And today we're going to just dive into some of those special considerations about grieving during the holidays. So, Erin Colleen, thank you so much for agreeing to come back. I'm so grateful to have this dynamic duo back with us today.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Thanks for having us, Jessica. Yes, thank you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I am so glad to have you here. Let's just dive right in and talk about why the holidays amplify grief in a different way. Why it just all of a sudden seems heavier to carry. It seems like maybe there are more triggers that, that trigger your feelings of grief or memory or things that are harder to walk through. Why is that harder? And I'll just let whoever wants to start you just jump right in.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Jessica. You know, I just thinking about how we just got through our very first holiday, which was Halloween. And that can be so difficult, for parents who are either grieving their spouse or partner or their child and seeing those intact families maybe around the neighborhood and missing someone in your life. And many times grieving families and grieving parents will really tell us that Halloween was the very first holiday that they were like, wow, we didn't know that this would be so tough. And so much of the time we're going right into the time change and you know, friends and neighbors, they go inside a little earlier and maybe m the supporters that you naturally had when it was light until 8 o' clock in the evening, they're going in and you can feel a lot more alone. And so just the holidays, you know, as. And then we start looking toward Thanksgiving and Christmas and starting to really dread that and wonder how will we get through it? What now that this person is missing from our family.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Erin I really appreciate you just normalizing that. And so for people who are experiencing grief, just knowing they're not alone, that that is a very normal experience. And even as you describe something you wouldn't expect to affect you in a way, but seeing intact families in a, in a way that you realize your family will never be the same or never be that way again, that can be really, really hard. And in the book, I would love, Colleen, for you to answer this. In the book, you talk about this concept, about the energy of love that you once directed towards your loved ones that now has nowhere to go. Can you talk about that? Because I think that plays a lot into the holidays. Things that favorite dishes that maybe you would make for someone who is no longer there, or a gathering where that person is not there. You're not buying gifts for that person. There's just this kind of absence there. Can you explain that to us, Colleen?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. Erin has always said that their absence is the loudest voice in the room and that you really notice all of the different ways that they're not present. And you likely had so many different traditions that you used to be excited to enter into during the holiday season, but now those are just reminders that life really isn't going to be the same. Even if you do the same traditions, their absence is the loudest voice in the room. Excuse me. But there are things that we can do with that energy. There are ways that we can continue to honor them and remember them. You know, one thing that one mom did was, you know, she didn't have her son stocking to fill, but she put extra gifts in her daughter's stocking instead just to. To do something with that energy, that desire to give to her son. She, you know, moved it to another person that could receive that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a beautiful idea. I think it's so hard to give yourself space to develop new traditions around the holidays because there's some that feel sacred, but it feels. Feels this odd sort of floating space where, you know, that you're not going to. It's not going to be the same. But having that energy to put forward to make it different can be really difficult to do. But I love the story that you share about how that could look. And Erin as we've said, you know, you have walked this path of loss and grief so intimately. And in the book, you share about a specific Thanksgiving, your first Thanksgiving. And as we were talking about Thanksgiving coming up, would you share that with our listeners today?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. I remember, it was one of our Thanksgivings. And, you know, the first year, I didn't have really the energy to host Thanksgiving, which normally I do as just, you know, the mom and I have adult children, and, just everybody comes over. But, you know, as the Thanksgivings have gone on and when I finally did find the energy to host again, what I really noticed was that, you know, Carter's absence was really on the shoulders of every single person in the room. And even as we, welcome people into our home, they're feeling that acute sense that someone's missing. And even as we do, I think what the. A phrase that I've learned to kind of lean into is really being with what remains, because you're holding gratitude for who's there. And at the very same time, the weight of who's missing is so palpable. And so being able to just acknowledge that and to say we're missing them, to maybe go around the table and share a memory or do a toast in their honor is so important. And so as we, not only face maybe the very first holiday, which many of your listeners may be facing, their very first holiday without the person, but even as subsequent holidays go, being able to continue to grieve them and also be grateful for what is with you is so important. And, And so just holding both.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Erin as you're describing that, I'm so glad you said that you didn't have the energy to host that first year. I think that's important, to give yourself permission in that way. Just to say, I don't. I can't do it. But as those people are coming in, I'm wondering how the we of that felt, because you're carrying your own grief, and yet, you feel some sort of obligation, like you're grateful that they're grieving with you, but also the weight of that. How did that feel? How do you. How do you navigate the tension of that, of being so acutely aware of someone else's shared grief, but also stewarding your own?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I think the only way is to just be present to how you're feeling inside and to, be just honest at times, to be able to say, ha, like, this feels really heavy right now, and I'm feeling this. I can remember one time after Carter died, and I was just with my daughter, we were watching holiday movies, and it was just like our favorite thing to do, to just grab blankets and just get on the couch. And, you know, I. I started feeling just, like, really, really sad. And you Know, just to be honest about that. And also I really needed to just get it out. And so I kind of just went in the other room and cried and just like really felt that and then entered back in. And I think honoring the energy of your grief, it has to come out. You have to find a way to express it. And that is really the way we move into the next moment, is to feel the energy of, it. What does, and then to express it and move into the next moment. And I think that's how we get through the holidays, is really moment by moment, being honest and expressing, yourself.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree. You gotta give yourself grace and space to be human. And so many of the things that you're talking about, Erin are physical manifestations of grief, which sometimes we connect, to our grief, and sometimes we don't connect to our grief. But you were talking about, you know, just even feeling like you needed to cry. And it's amazing how God has even made our tears where we have different kinds of chemical compositions for our tears that are therapeutic for us. But sometimes it's hard to give yourself permission because I think it at the holidays, a lot of times you feel a pressure. You were talking about being with your daughter. I'm sure you felt like, well, I need to be happy for her. You know, you don't want her entire Christmas to be overshadowed by grief. But, in all of these situations, you've been really talking about listening to your body. And Colleen, for you, as a therapist, I would love for you to make that connection for us, that psychosomatic connection. And how do we listen to our bodies and how. And pay attention to how we're physically grieving and let that inform the decisions that you might be making.
What can you do to bring some energy into your body if you need it
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. So to start with that, doing just a little check in with your body, a little body scan where you can sit in quiet and just notice, notice what your body's telling you. You know, are you really tired? Do you need to take some rest? Do you. Are you feeling a little, like, energized within? Maybe. Maybe there's anger, there's big energy that you need to help move out of your body. And there's so many different ways that we can express any of those energies within. And one of my favorites is bilateral movement, which is a fancy way for saying just moving both sides of your body. And we do that naturally through walking. And so taking a quick walk around the block. it doesn't have to be quick. It can be as slow as you need it to be. But a walk around the block. It's that fresh air. It's moving both sides of your body. And when you move both sides, your brain starts talking together your right and left hemisphere. And then your brain is more aware of how you are feeling and what you need to do with that feeling. And so as you learn what helps you these coping skills, Big energy in our body usually needs big energy to express it. So whether that is my favorite is just shaking it out. Taylor Swift really knew what she was talking about with that song. You can think of her but just shaking your whole body, arms and legs moving that energy. Or maybe you notice you have very, very low energy, which is very common with grief. What can you do to bring some energy into your body if you need to get moving?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Those are great tips. And we're already at our first break and when we come back, we'll talk some more specifics about handling some holiday gatherings and how to manage grief when you have children in your home. We'll be right back.
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When we approach grief at the holidays, it can be really difficult
And as we're approaching the holidays, I encourage you to do just that. Some of you, as you are approaching the holidays are Coming carrying a heavy load. You are walking a road of grief. Maybe it's fresh, maybe it's been a long time, and yet somehow feels so fresh. And when we approach grief at the holidays, it can be really difficult. There's lots of complicated emotions. And I'm talking today to two guests who know this road very well. We have Erin Nelson, the founder and executive director of Jessica's House, a grief support center for children and families. She has lost her husband, her mother, her son walked through grief. And Colleen Montague, a licensed marriage and family therapist and a director of community outreach for Jessica's House. They wrote a book called When Grief Comes Home, A Gentle Guide for living through loss while supporting your child. And, Erin you and I were just talking in the break about how difficult this is when you have children. And you just described, you know, after, losing your son and, and sitting with your daughter and feeling like she still has a Christmas experience, and you still feel like you want to be present. You don't want her to have to bear the weight of that grief. And yet that is the reality of what your family is facing. And so I would love for you to talk about that. Just some of the emotions that kids might have about the holidays and when parents and kids might have conflicting emotions or how do you navigate that as children and adults grieve differently?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, so children and adults do grieve differently, and I think every single person in the family is grieving differently. So being able to establish that. That, you know, everyone grieves differently, and we're all going to feel differently about the holidays and even traditions that we maybe want to keep or those that we want to pause for now, and having a conversation with your kids, starting with what's important to you and finding out what's important to each person in the family and. And then honoring each person's desires and being able to talk openly about it, because for some, it might be too painful to bake mom's favorite cookies if she's no longer here. And for another person, that might be exactly what they need. And so whatever it is that they want to keep or let go of, being able to talk about it open and find out what's important and then continue to revisit that. And just those family conversations are very important. And also realizing that you don't have the energy that you once did. And, just even as you may have invitations to family or friends, talk to the kids about what is important and can we make a plan and do we have, like, a little code Word for if someone is feeling like, okay, I'm really done, and I need to go home now. And can we just even establish with our hosts that, hey, we may have to leave early? But, that's just because we're taking really good care, of ourselves right now because we're healing, and we need to reserve some energy for that and to just talk about it and make a plan. Drive separately when you can and just have a little extra exit strategy as needed.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Erin that is so wise, because the contrary of that is the contrast of that is to apologize profusely. Oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry we have to leave. I. I don't want to ruin it. You know, all of those things that you can imagine people saying and that I'm sure we've all experienced to some extent, but the way that you just said that so confidently and naturally, it set you up for success, you know, and saying, hey, I want to let you know ahead of time, we might leave early. And that's just because we're taking good care of ourselves. That's such a. To frame that.
Everyone grieves differently, and even children grieve differently from adults
And, Colleen, I want to ask you about the siblings, because, as Erin said, you know, everyone grieves differently. Children grieve differently from adults, and even children grieve differently from children. We know that children at different developmental ages have dramatically different understandings of death in terms of permanency, in terms of, you know, the emotional involvement. And I see a lot of times families whose children are grieving differently, and it can set up some conflict between siblings, whereas one sibling, you know, may appear to be happier, to be coping well, and another sibling could say, well, it seems like you don't even care. And that sibling may think, well, I don't understand how you're grieving. How.
Dr. Jessica Peck: What advice do you have for navigating that and helping explain that different grieving process and giving everyone grace and space to grieve in their own way.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Such a good point. And I think it's just a lifelong conversation you are probably going to have with your family. Just that everybody's doing this differently, everyone's feeling a little differently or grieves differently, or it may look different, but we all miss daddy, huh? Huh? Or we all miss brother, huh? Huh? You know, we all feel we're missing this person. It's just going to look different for everybody, which means there's different things that are important for one versus the other. So let's talk about it and just creating this dialogue. And the nice thing is, is you're really setting up a foundation that you are here to talk about it. And there's nothing wrong with how anybody is feeling. And, you're going to try and listen to everybody as a family to see what's important to some and what might be important to others. And that's going to be a conversation you're going to revisit in different ways long after the holidays.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that can be really hard to do. And there may be some kids who feel badly. They may even feel shame if they feel excited about something. Maybe they see, oh, well, you know, mommy's still really sad. Like, I, I don't know if I can feel happy. I feel bad about that. And they kind of, you know, feel like it. There's a limitation maybe or a restriction on their emotions and they're suddenly socially aware of those. How do you speak into that? And, and, and that the weight and the tension of feeling joy, but also still feeling the weight of that loss.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, you can really, really miss your mom. And you can also be excited that it's almost Thanksgiving or that you got invited to a birthday party. There are so many times in our life where we're going to hold more than one emotion at the same time. That's what we can do as humans. And we had a little boy once in the program teach us. his word for it was sappy. Sometimes he was happy and sad at the same time. And so when we can just normalize that for kids and let it be okay, it stops that, ah, potential shame cycle from starting that it's okay to feel both. It doesn't mean that you miss them any less. You're just a human.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that's important because grief is not a linear journey. It's not like kids, you know, continue to progress and heal and get better every day and get stronger every day. Sometimes you may just have a reminder that feels like it sends you backwards or a new circumstance that you didn't anticipate. And it's a looping kind of messy back and forth journey. And I think that that is important to emphasize, like, it's okay that you were okay the last two days and that you're not okay today. It's okay to not be okay. Erin what would you add to that? Because I think the other thing that really weighs into this is feeling the weight of those traditions as we were talking about a little bit in the first segment, and feeling, you know, navigating all of those emotions and feeling like, like which ones should you keep? Which ones should you let go where should you create new ones? How do you even begin a conversation with your kids about that?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I think just starting kind of where you are by, just saying, you know, what is important. And these are all of the traditions that we've done before, and which one feels really important to you right now? And, you know, also, like, which ones can we let go of? Something that some people have said they've done is they used to get a really big Christmas tree, and it was just all decorated. And, they decided to just get a small one, and they just brought out the ornaments that were really important to them. And even they had a ceremony with, ornaments that reminded them of their person. And, those are the ones that got hung on the tree that year and none of the other ones. And so they just changed their tradition around the tree. And I think something that you said, Jessica, about two days ago, you may feel one way, and, you know, now you feel differently knowing that every person in the family is also experiencing that. So we're kind of in our not okay ness all at different times. And so, first of all, really holding on to the hope that however I'm feeling right now, even if it feels very dark and stormy, and we may just think, like, will I ever feel better? You'll. You will not feel this same way forever. And so holding on to the hope that you can breathe into the next moment again as you express it, and as you move that energy out of your body, you can get to that next moment and also give each other grace that. That whatever that might be that someone else is holding in that moment, they'll also move through that. And so we're all moving through those really tough moments at different times. And so it can look a little chaotic, right? It can look a little chaotic, all grieving in the same family, but doing it differently at different times. And every person in the family had a different relationship with the person who died. So that's another complexity that adds something to the dynamic because, you know, one child may have known dad in one certain way, and another child knew him in a different way, and he filled a role for them that was totally different, different than another child. And so they're also grieving parts of dad very differently. And so even according to their age and, their age of development, and so it's just such a messy process, but one that God is in and that he will help families navigate. And it's, it's just really holding hope that you're not going to always feel the way you do in this very moment. And we will get through as a family, we're going to get through to the next moment.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that the most important thing that both of you are saying just over and over again, that sounds so simple but can be so difficult to do, is just to hold everything so loosely and just to give everybody a lot of grace and space. You said it well, Erin Grief is messy. It is really messy. And the holidays are often not messy. They're very carefully curated, they're very scheduled. And you feel this obligation to participate in things that you've participated before to do things that you had done before. But I think just giving everybody grace, saying, hey, if you, if you need to have a breakdown and you need to cry, like that's okay. We're, I'm going to sit here with you through it and if you feel like you have the energy to do it, then that's okay. And just giving them that freedom to grieve, I think is, is a really, really wonderful gift. And Erin is.
You can model healthy grieving by being there for your child during holidays
And I know this is something that, you know, you have lived so personally, but experiencing grief and loss and having a child at home is really hard because you feel like you've got to take care of that child, but you really have to take care of yourself. And how do you, how do you balance that? Because I do think, you know, sitting. From my perspective as a health professional, I know that kids see their own security through your security. If you're emotionally unwell, they feel unsafe. If you're physically unwell, they feel unsafe because you are their source of security. What are ways that you have, what are tips that you have to really take care of yourself as an adult during that season. And not just to say, okay, I'm just going to sacrifice, I'm just going to give everything because that often doesn't work out that well. What's, what's your experience and what have you learned from your ministry?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: You know, I think you can model healthy grieving and we talked a little bit earlier about tears. That is one of the best ways back to regulating your nervous system. There's not much that can regulate your nervous system like a good cry. And it's just an amazing part of how we are made up chemically. And so modeling healthy grief. You can grieve in a healthy way and cry and also be a safe container for your child and also get to that next moment and, and be that person that can co regulate them and their emotions. So as we're expressing ours and healthy Ways we can also be there for them. We can model healthy grieving and be with them and their grief to help them learn how to grieve in a healthy way and to openly mourn. And because I had mom one time say my child was worth every tear, I cry. And so grief is. Yeah, it's one of those. Like, our grief represents our deep love for who's missing. And this is just an expression of our love. And so knowing that we can be very emotionally healthy and that is a sign of emotional health, that we're expressing ourselves, that we're holding multiple emotions at the same time and so. And continue to also be a very safe container for our child.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Colleen, what would you add to that?
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Oh, I. I'm glad you asked because I thought, man, it also just shows your child that the tears won't last forever, you know, and so it's okay to cry in front of your child. They get to see that, it's okay to cry. They see you expressing, and then they also notice when you stop, and then you're able to move into your next moment and maybe 20 minutes later you're a little lighter. So that, I think is such a good example for your child that it's okay to go there, because a storm never lasts forever. Not going to stay in that place of sadness forever. It just goes along with what grief is, which is just these waves of grief that don't last in that intensity all the time.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think the other thing that's really hard to do for people who are grieving is accepting help, because there may be other people who, your children can go and enjoy holiday activities with them or can help pick up the, tradition or just doing some of those things that you want your kids to have those experiences, but maybe you just don't have the energy for all of that. And so leaning on your support group can be really, really hard to do. And especially when there's other expectations of grief. Maybe it's been a long time and people think, oh, this is still hard for you. It's hard to be vulnerable. When we come back, we'll take talk some more about that and we'll also talk about creating some meaningful rituals. Rituals are really good rhythms, traditions to have at the holidays to help families to have a sense of identity and a sense of coping and unity. We'll talk more about grieving in the holidays. The book is called When Grief Comes Home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child while be right back on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no, she stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies and I'll tell you all about it.
Rest For Your Soul by Austin French: Are you tired and troubled? Weighed down by a heavy load Praying for change Searching for faith Waiting on a miracle Are, you drowning in questions? Can't believe where the road has led? There's one who knows the heavy you hold And he says come to me. All. Who are weary and heavy burdened all who are hurting Come to me I'll be your shelter My yoke is easy My load is light. And you can. Find Rest for your soul rest for your soul.
As we approach the holidays, for those grieving, grief can be difficult
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is rest for your soul by Austin French and as we approach the holidays, for those who are navigating a path of grief, it can be hard to find rest for your soul. It can feel anything but restful. There are often sleepless nights that come with grief. There are all often moments of longing, of just such intense longing, longing for what was and at the same time, what never will be. But we can find hope in a, God who loves us, who cares for us so deeply, who is so close to the brokenhearted. And as you're starting to navigate the path to the holidays, there are many who are listening, who have either experienced grief and loss themselves and are navigating that as a family or, you know, a family who has. I was just sharing with our guest today, Erin Nelson. Colleen Montague, authors of, When Grief Comes Home, A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child that for some reason, for the last two years. I've been to more funerals in the last two years than I've been in my whole life. It just seems like I am surrounded by people who are grieving. And I've had grieving experiences myself and losing my very beloved grandmother, who was really more like a mother to me. I lived with her all during nursing school. And I remember Erin and Colleen, the first Christmas without her. And I remember the anticipation of it was really difficult because she passed away in the fall. And so it was very close to Christmas. And she. This woman, let me tell you, she loved Christmas like, I have never seen anyone love Christmas ever. And she passed that down to me. So. So every Christmas memory I have was just absolutely tied to her. Everything from baking to Christmas Eve to going to church and everything. And I remember just feeling this weight of, how am I going to steward the season with my kids? Because, you know, I. I didn't know what would bring me into tears or, what would, you know, make me, have a moment where I'd need to take a moment. And I remember thinking, I don't want every part of Christmas to be sadness. And that anticipation was. Was really difficult. So, Erin what would you say to families in that season of. We're approaching it and they're thinking, okay, it's coming. I don't really know what I want to do, how I'm going to handle this. I want to handle it well, I don't know the. My physical or emotional limitations. What would you say about handling that? Anticipation.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, the anticipation. And earlier, Colleen was talking about the storm never lasts forever. I think God has put these rhythms and, just. Even on the earth, even just with waves. You know, you have this building, right? You just have this building. And in the building, you're looking at a wave and you're thinking, like, how big is it going to be? You know, will it. You know, will it overtake me? And, then, you know, it's. Then you have the peaking, and then there's the receding. And so I think trusting, that with the anticipation of the holidays, first of all, God will be with you, like in those waves of grief. Trusting that his presence will sustain you and also knowing that it will recede. The. You know, the 26th will come and you will get through breath by breath through the holidays and just trusting that you will get to the other side. Some people just say, I'm just going to survive it. Other people might find unexpected little glimmers of warmth where they just had a moment where they felt presence and a little bit of okayness that surprised them. But just to know that, you know, as we breathe through it and we're with it, we're gonna get through it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so helpful. And I.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And really, rhythms are such an important part of that. And creating rituals, honoring traditions. And one of the things that my Kids did for me is my. My granny loved to have a good tea party. And so she had made all of the girls a, really, like an old fashioned kind of hat hat that had a little brooch on it and we put flowers on it. Every girl got to pick their own color of artificial flowers and we hot glued them. It was a good arts and crafts project. And. And she always had this shawl that she wore. And so after she passed away, we have a tea to honor her and we have a chair that is her chair. We put her hat on the chair, we put her shawl on the chair. We use the tea set that she gave us. And just feeling the comfort of her presence is so good. And knowing that my kids know, I'll cry about 47 times throughout the tea. I will be okay. And I think these kinds of rhythms and rituals and traditions are really important part of the healing journey.
How can you bring your deceased loved one into the present moment through traditions
Colleen, what can you tell us from a therapy side of that, how they help us.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: I love what you shared about your granny. Just how can you bring her into the present moment? You know, through her memory and through traditions that she appreciated, traditions that make you feel connected to her still. And that's how we encourage our families to do, you know, how can you bring your person into the present moment? We've had families that do a Christmas tree, and everybody that comes brings an ornament that reminds them of that person, whether it's a characteristic or a memory that they had. And they've gone around the room and shared that collectively. And I think that's what it comes down to is this collective experience when you have these rituals or ceremonies that when you are together with others, to hold that with. There's so much power in that, to feel held and to bring that person back into the space through their memories and through, you know, your individual connections to them. Like Erin mentioned earlier, we all had a different little relationship with that same person. And so continuing to just share that with the others that loved them just as much as you did, we also talk about like a memory stocking, you know, doing that too, dropping in a written memory or something that you really miss about them to be read collectively together on Christmas Eve or Christmas morning. Again, bringing that person into that present space through their memory.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I love that. I think of a, friend I have who lost her husband at a young age. And it's that grief is so tender and as someone on the outside, you can see it. And I think there's a lot of times that people are just very well intentioned. They think, oh, I don't want to bring up that person that passed away because I don't want to upset you. I don't want to make you upset. But I remember one time specifically saying something about her husband after he had passed away, and she just grabbed my arm and she just said, thank you so much for giving me the gift of his presence. You just gave me the gift of his presence. You just brought him into the moment and. And he's here with us in some way and, you know, just reminding that his legacy mattered. And it really, it encouraged me, I think that you, you are almost. I'm, everyone is different. But I'm going to say I would rather err on the side of that. Just saying, hey, that person was special. Marking their presence and saying something about them bringing into that could be a really good gift for someone. And Erin I know you've been working at Jessica's house in your ministry with, with people who are creating these rituals, memories, traditions, rhythms that they have. And one of those is the candlelight ceremony. Can you tell us about.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's see. Hold on just a minute. I think that we see, Colleen, do you want to speak into that? I think, we've lost Erin for just a minute. Okay, go ahead.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, I would love to. You know, we have this ceremony that we do every winter time, on our last group night with our families. And we encourage them. They can gather together as a family. We do it with them in person. And we light four candles and then we share this. We light this candle in your memory. We will never forget the times we laughed or disagreed, the fun times or the memories we made. We carry you with us always. We light this candle for love. We remember our love for you and yours for us. May the love you brought into this world shine in us for each other. We light this candle for the emptiness we feel without you. You. The pain of missing you reminds us of the depth, of our love for you. We wish you were here with us and we remember you. We light this candle for hope. We remind ourselves that feelings are not forever. When living without you feels like too much. May we trust we will feel hopeful again as we acknowledge the emptiness and honor your memory. May we find moments of hope and gratitude for the light of your life, love. And we just bring that same ceremony back every year, year after year and do with our families. It's, a become an anchor here at, Jessica's house and something we hope that can become an anchor for other families, too, who want to bring their person into the present moment, but just aren't always sure how to do.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It, I think that's really helpful to do because you want to have that memory, but to have that structure, to have that opportunity just to take a moment, moment to acknowledge the grief and loss that you've experienced. I think it's very. It's very easy for families who are living in such a fast world today. It's like everything is expected to be fast. Everything is instant gratification. We don't have a lot of tolerance or patience for emotions that persist. And grief is definitely an emotion that persists. And if you think about all of the ways that culture just. Just really trains us for instant gratification and instant resolution of things. How do you speak to that, Colleen, as a therapist and helping families to understand and accept that grief can be a very long journey and something that doesn't go away right away. How do you find grace for yourself in that moment? Thinking, you know, I should be over this by now. And, and. But really just being grief comforted in whatever stage of grief you're in.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah. We certainly do live in a culture of good vibes only, and we don't like to feel pain. But what we say is that the only way through it is to go through it, is to allow yourself to feel those emotions and express them as opposed to just pushing them away or pushing them down. And so as you lean into all of the different ways you can express your grief, you will start to find those moments, those. Those times of healing. But we say you'll never be healed, because the reality is, is that if you love your person who died, you're going to miss them forever. So you're going to grief their absence forever, and it's going to continually morph and look different in time when, as you grasp your children grow up, they're going to miss their mom or their dad or their sibling in a new way in a different way that they wouldn't realize at the very beginning. And so that's okay just to know are setting a good foundation now for how to hold and. And welcome grief as it arises, to sit with it, acknowledge it, and to express it so that then you can ride into the next moment.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Colleen, I remember in, in a season of grief that I was experiencing, I remember just praying and asking the Lord, lord, when am I going to be okay? Like, when am I going to be okay again? When is this going to be okay? And I just felt God speak back to me and say, no, the question is really, when are you going to be okay with not being okay? That's where you need to be. Because it's never going to be the same again. It's never going to be the same. But I can still find hope. And that's really hard to release your control to God's sovereignty, to realize that he is in control and realize so many things are above his understanding. I say this quote all the time. If God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. And there's some things that we just don't understand. And Erin I think we have you back now. I'll let you go ahead and okay that I let you go ahead and just share whatever's on your heart based on what we've been talking about.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague: Yeah, you know what, what you're talking about with God not being understood, there's just so much mystery. And I think just during the holidays, sitting in the mystery of, I had someone say to me today, just, you know, their daughter had died in an accident and she said, we don't understand why, you know, she died. And we have another family member who is like ending like at the end of their life and they're like, we wish that it would have been me. And because, you know, I've lived a really long life and there's this mystery there in this family and they were just talking openly about what, is that like to hold that. And that's really hard, too because we don't understand. It's just we, we can understand and to be with somebody in that and to not try to fix it and not try to explain it, but just to sit with it is really hard, to do, but it's so important.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm so grateful to both of you for sharing your insights. Again, if you know someone who's grieving and there is a child in of front involved, this is a great resource for you. When grief comes home. A gentle guide for living through loss while supporting your child. We're so grateful to Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague for sharing with us their experience, their expertise and most of all, hope and comfort and knowing that you are not alone.
Think about ways your family can be a blessing this holiday season
I'd love to ask you to really pray about who God would have you ministered to, who might be grieving and what you could do to be a special encouragement to them during this holiday season. That's a great way to prepare for Christmas and to think about a way that your family can be a blessing for other. And whether grieving or not, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague join Jessica to talk about navigating grief as the holiday season approaches.
Rx for Hope: Create Meaningful Rituals
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