Dr. Jessica Peck prescribes Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we need some hope. If you, wherever you are in the summer, if the summer's just kind of normal for you, or if you're in that back to school, like we're ready to get back into a routine. I know that's where I am currently in my house. And I need help because I have four young adults and teenagers and it's so great, it's such a fun stage of life, but they. I also can't tell them to go to bed at 8 o'. Clock. So there is that. But I am hanging in there.
Too often in culture and in church, our needs are misunderstood
And today we have such a great dose of help and hope coming your way. One of my very favorite guests. I know I'm not supposed to say that, but I will anyway. Is here today with us, a friend of the show, and he has a really important message for us because too often in both culture and in church, our needs are misunderstood. Our needs, how we perceive them as the strong people that we are, are. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm being inconvenient. It's a weakness to be minimized. I mean, I know when I ask for help or when I hear people around me ask for help, if is usually preceded by an apology and usually it's something very small. I'm sorry, I'm trying to load the dishwasher. Can you move over? I need your help in that. And at our worst, we treat our needs as shameful burdens, really, to be hidden away. But what if we could reframe those needs to actually be invitations? What if the very things that we're trying to hide are, are the things that draw us deeper into community and friendship? I know, it is an intriguing thought, is it not? So today that's what we're going to talk about.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton talk about the hospitality of need
We're talking about the hospitality of need, how depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. And this is by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. And they're challenging us to stop viewing need as a flaw and instead see it as a fertile ground for Christlike friendship. They share some raw and real stories with, with a biblical framework. And they're showing us how to live in honest, mutual dependence and how and when we do, true Christian fellowship can flourish. Kevan so glad to see you back on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, thanks for having me, Jessica.
Kevin was born with spinal muscular atrophy and backpacked across Europe
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kevan, I'm excited because the last time that we were, together, I was able to meet your beautiful wife Katy, and we were able to meet up in Dallas and you. And we were promoting your children's book, We Carry Kevan, which tells a little bit of your story. And I have to tell you that ever since you've told me your story, it's just the thing that sticks is the fact that for our listeners who don't know, Kevan was born with spinal muscular atrophy and he was carried around by his friends, backpacked across Europe, and those friends were inspired by. This is what lives in infamy, Kevan. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's just the affection of my generation for Leonardo and you know, Michelangelo, Donatello, Raphael. Did I get them all? Did I say it right? Okay, I passed the Gen X quiz and you. You talked about. But so for, for listeners who maybe missed that show, which if you did go back and listen, just tell us a little bit about you and how you came to write this book, the Hospitality of Need.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, M. Well, I mean you, You've, You've said it all. I. Spinal muscular atrophy and I spend my life in a power wheelchair and also depending on a lot of people to make my, My life possible. And that includes growing up that included my my siblings and my parents and my parents friends. And then later it became more of my friends doing that, caregiving and, and helping with my needs and that you know, resulted in a lot of bumped heads on doorways and all kinds of fun accidents along the way. but a lot of deepening relationships that ah, really changed my life and shaped who I am today. And now, you know, it includes my wife and ah, a bunch of friends here in Indiana. And when the guys and I went to Europe in 2016, we left my realtor at home and they just carried me around in a backpack for three weeks, taking turns and not just carrying me, but taking care of me. at the end of a high flying adventure day, they also had to, you know, help me eat and had to take me to the restroom and get me ready for bed. And the. That part of it never really stopped. And so, I got to write a book about that three week adventure. And after the book came out and everything, the questions started kind of circulating in myself and among friends of, well, what do I write next what story do I tell? And I, really wanted to open it up m More and share about not just those, but, those friends on that trip for three weeks. You know, I, I did a lot of interviews where people would talk about how great my friends were and I, I wanted them to know. Well, it's more than six guys. There's like 30 or 40 or 50 if you reach back far enough, you know, and, and And so this book really came out of, two things. A desire to share more of how I live my life and, and what it looks like, to the glory of God. And then also wanted to write something that really honored, and celebrated my friends from throughout the years.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Kevan, that is just really so beautiful. And before we even dive into that, I want to tell you that one of the things that really stood out to me in my previous talks with you and conversation is that you thanked your parents for giving you life. And your life is such a beautiful affirmation of life and what living life to the fullness of Christ can look like. And that's so inspiring because, you know, I, I've been working also with Nick Vujicic Nick V Ministries is a man who was born with no arms or leg and legs. And similarly he's very dependent on other people for his physical needs. And having been, you know, working with his ministry, seeing what that looks like in person on a day to day basis and then seeing your situation, I think, you know, you are dependent on other people for your physical needs. You have to have help in that way. And you, you don't have a choice about that. But what you do have a choice about is the attitude with which you approach that. And Kevan, I, really have never seen anything like it. And reading your book, we carry Kevan, the adult version and the kids version, and seeing your affection for your friends, your dependence on your friends, your attitude about it, it was really convicting because I think there's a lot of other people who may not have those kinds of physical needs like you have maybe, but they have emotional needs, they have mental health needs. Those are so much easier to hide. They're so much easier to just refuse help for and to not reach out for. And I think there is something really powerful for us to learn from you today about how about your just your attitude toward it. So let's start with talking about the name of the book, the Hospitality of Need. It seems like that doesn't go together. So how did you, how did you name this book? How did Frame for Us, your mindset and accepting people's help. And how you, how that relates to the title.
Kevan Chandler: Well, you know, it's funny, I, I can't really take credit. I, I didn't name it per se. I, I decided that should be the name. But the, that title came from a friend of mine, one of the guys here. We were at a prayer meeting, a men's prayer group one morning and they had invited me to come and share my testimony. And afterwards, the men gathered around and were praying over me. And this one friend, during his prayer, he thanked God for giving me the gift of the hospitality of need. And I think it was a Holy spirit moment for him to say that and for me to hear it and for it to stick. Because I thought that's an odd phrase but I want to sit on it for a while. And so I took some time to process that. And in the meantime I was trying to come up with what this book would look like, what the through line and kind of the driving point of it was. and I talked with a bunch of different friends about it and said when I say this phrase, what do you think of. And I got all these great responses about you know, one guy saying well, and I talk about this in the book. He, he got me up at that time, got me up every Tuesday and he said well you know, you need my help on Tuesday mornings to get up in the morning. and he, he runs, he ran a, a non profit here in, in the city that was very and gave him very full days. And he was also ministering to the, the tattoo artist scene and the MMA gym scene. And he had his own family with kids and just his life was kind of non stop. And he said, you know, you need me to get you up every Tuesday. But that gives me like a guaranteed hour and a half of quiet stillness with a friend. And that's the only stillness I get in the week, you know. And and there were others that said similar things. I have this rhythm to, to see a friend each week or this is the only rhythm in my life that I'm coming every Wednesday, you know. And, and so I, I was, I guess it was already something that I was living in, but I finally had terminology for it which was that our needs can have an element of hospitality in them. that our needs are, so often as you said, we see them as burdens, we see them as things to be ashamed of. But also on the other hand, we can see them as, we can put them up as idols. We can say, my need is more important. It's paramount over anything else in your world should revolve around it too, you know, and so, realizing that our needs are actually, their tools, they're opportunities that God is giving us to walk in together, shoulder to shoulder, and go into deeper relationship with one another and with him. And, so that. That is. I mean, if that's not hospitable, I don't know what is, you know. And. And, And so that's kind of where the title came from. And, and that really brought focus and clarity to the book.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton write a book about friendship through need
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's interesting that you just said the word idols. We've actually been talking about that a lot. I think my attention has been drawn to it because I walked some ancient paths in this summer and traveled a little bit and saw where, you know, there are physical idols, in other parts of the world that are still so prevalent. But it was really convicting to me, Kevan, because I thought we have idols too. We've just shrouded them in different disguises, you know, and we don't consider them to be idols. But what you just said about it's an idol, basically, I think the idol is our own strength because there's a certain vulnerability and trust. And I remember you describing that before, like, even being put in someone else's backpack. And that's. That's part of. Through, what's in your children's book we carry Kevan. Like, what if you drop me? What if all of these things, there's a certain vulnerability where you have to lay down your own strength and say, I can't do this. I need your help. And I think that's where we can learn so much from you and your humility and. And the way that you minister to others. That's what I think was such a beautiful thing too, because you minister to others. You were going through Europe. You made so many people smile, people taking pictures with you, people just encouraged by you. And just what you said, you ministering to people who are ministering to you, that's one of the beautiful things. I encourage you if you are having trouble asking for help, if you have some needs, if you want to heal and grow together, get a copy of this book called the Hospitality of Need with Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. How depending on one another and helps us heal and grow together. And Kevan and Tommy share in this book what can happen when we invite others into our lives, hardships and all. And ultimately it's a book about friendship, the kind that God has called us to live in. Friendship that flourishes not in spite of, but actually through need. And this is for caregivers, care receivers, and the wider Christian community. Hey, it is fall and I know that there are some groups starting up. This may be a book that you want to have a book club for and sit and discuss. And when we come back, I've got so many more questions for Kevan. We'll talk about what his everyday life looks like in the context of this book, some of the personal stories that they share and how they're we're working about through this idea that hospitality actually impacts our relationship so much more from Kevan Chandler. When we come back, the hospital of need, how, depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. I will see you with more help and hope. On the other side of this break. Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by preborn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat. The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside, I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love. PreBorn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership gift and sponsor a machine today? These life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com/AFR who could.
Living Hope by Phil Wickham: Imagine so great a mercy? What heart could fathom such boundless grace? The God of ages step down from glory to wear my sin and bear my shame. The cross has spoken, I am forgiven. The king of kings calls me his own beautiful savior. I'm yours forever. Jesus Christ, my living hope. Hallelujah, Praise the one who set me free. Hallelujah. Death has lost its grip on me. You have broken every chain. There's salvation in your name. Jesus Christ, my living hope.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Living Hope by Phil Wickham. And it's in my top 10 list that I think is up to about, I don't know, 347 songs now. But am I sorry? No, I am not sorry because we are always in need of hope. And in fact I have A playlist that I'm curating that is just all songs of hope. And when I feel a loss of hope, when I feel down, when I feel discouraged, I always remember and ah, that God is the giver of hope. And in a world that prizes self sufficiency, we try to find our own hope sometimes. And it's easy to overlook the stuff sacred power of mutual dependence and finding hope in that. But in the body of Christ, we just simply aren't meant to go it alone. Even from the early days, the church had such hospitality and they helped each other. The hospitality of need is not just a book. It is a gentle and maybe it's a gentle but very strong wake up call to the church. Co authors Kevan Chandler and Pastor Tommy Shelton. After, after. A deeply human, biblically rooted perspective on friendship that just doesn't just survive in the presence of need. It thrives there. It's born there. So whether you find yourself in a place of giving care or receiving it, this conversation today is going to invite you to rethink how God uses both of those roles as caregiver and care receiver to deepen your relationships, grow your empathy and reveal God's heart for community. And we are joined today by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton is now joining us. We're so glad to have both of you. We've had Kevan on the show before and Kevan was sharing his personal story and so inspiring to me. Just his humility and his courage and his grace and just his honesty and sharing what that is like. And Tommy, we're so glad to have you too. I would love for you to share with our listeners. And how did you get to be so lucky to co author a book with Kevan? How did that partnership and friendship come about?
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, surely, and thank you for having me. and I don't want to be obnoxious or anything, but I don't believe in luck. I believe in Providence. And so I know that the Lord ordained this partnership and it really has been, just something to receive with a lot of thanksgiving and gratitude for his grace and turning a friendship into a partnership in this way, which then in turn I think greatly deepened the friendship. So, the project, I think, on the Lord's Heart wasn't just a book, but also for Kevan and I to become even closer friends than we were when we started. So.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I appreciate that I can.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Certainly attest to that happening in the process of, of writing. Writing the book.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, and I echo, you're right there. Is no such thing as luck. There's no such thing as coincidence. You are so right. I believe that God is in the details, in every little detail. And it's a really hopeful outlook to see your life as ordained by God and that he cares about even the smallest things.
Kevan says caregiving has enriched his marriage and has helped build character
And Kevan, I want to go back to you for a minute and talk about a little bit more. What does your everyday life look like in the context of this book? You shared a little bit about your caregiver on Tuesdays. What else would you like to share about what that looks like on a practical level?
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, I mean I. Right now it's You know, I'm coming up on five years of marriage and Katy and I have had a lot of conversations about not just the depth of friendship that I, and actually she and I get to experience with these guys who come in and are part of our life and part of our home. helping out with my caregiving and traveling with them as well like Tommy and I have done. He's gone on road trips with Katy and I and been part of helping me with the restroom and showers and stuff. And And so that has done some amazing things as far as you know, bringing us closer and having a different kind of friendship than the world knows what to do with. but also, you know, you were asking about day to day and what comes to mind for me is what Katy and I have talked about as far as my needs have led us into a ah, deeper marriage. And so you know, if, if she's helping me with the restroom a handful of times throughout the day, that is, no matter how busy we are or going different directions, she's out running errands right now and we're doing this interview. but if, if I need help with again the restroom or getting my arm up on the table to hold the book open or we stop for lunch, these are all moments, where our world has to slow down and we are face to face. and what that does as far as quality time m together, the physical touch of caregiving. all of this just has enriched our marriage so, so much that you know we, we are coming up on five years and. And yet it feels like we've been married for 35 years just because, because of the, the intimacy that that brings, the, the depth of relationship. And But yeah, I, I think so that, that's kind of where we get to experience the hospitality of need most prevalently. and I think too going back to the friends who help out on a day to day basis. I mean, I have guys that, you know, aren't on the rotation at the moment and they reach out and say, hey, can I get back on? Or you know, because I miss hanging out so much, or I just, I need this to be a part of my life. And There's a chapter in the book that talks about, and you alluded to this earlier, the idea of trusting someone. And you know, the clearest example in my life, in some ways maybe the most extreme example, we'll say it that way, was going to Europe and being carried on these guys backs because it's like, you know, I'm gonna trust that you're not gonna trip, you're not gonna fall, you're, you're not gonna go in a direction we shouldn't go. You're gonna duck in the doorways of, you know, subway, subway cars and stuff. And and. And yet I get to see that, or I get to practice that every day, as I invite these guys in and say, hey, I trust I'm entrusting myself to you, that you will help me with what I need, that you'll pick me up, that you'll move me carefully. And things like that. And that, I found, and Tommy can probably speak into this, that, that really does something especially to men, who want to be trusted. And it builds character and encourages growth into the men of God that we've been called to be. And so I'm so thankful to be a part of that. And you were talking earlier about how to care for others and the intentionality of that. And I think, you know, God's going to use your needs to bless others whether you like it or not. It's really a question of am I going to participate in that? am I going to be intentional as a way to participate in what he's going to do? or am I just going to miss it?
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so convicting, Kevan. That is really convicting because you're absolutely right. And one of the things that you just said that was really intriguing to me is the fact that time slows down and we live in a world that goes at the speed of a smartphone. And we want instant fixes, we want instant gratification, we can view other people's needs. I know as a parent sometimes I view that, my children's needs as an inconvenience instead of an opportunity to connect. And it's just Even as you're continuing to share your story, it's so convicting because you talk about it has to be one person who's willing to serve and another person who is willing to, to be served. And part of that, the appeal of this book is you share your stories just like you did just now, Kevan, even in those day to day things and some of those physical things. But imagine what that looks like in caring, for someone who has anxiety throughout the day, who has grief throughout the day, who has depression throughout the day, having those little connections where the world slows down and meeting their point of need. That is really beautiful. But those personal stories are backed with beautiful biblical commentary. And Tommy, I'm sure that's where you came in and were able to provide some wisdom from your own experience and, and your own background. So what does that look like, taking those personal stories but also looking at them through the lens of the truth of scripture. Tell us about that process and what readers will get from the book.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Surely. So the, I mean that was the real, and whether it was intentional on Kevan's part or just intentional on God's part. But the, the, the idea or the question that really hooked me into the book was Kevan's observation that, that Christ as God incarnate, God in, in our flesh actually would have needs that the flesh has. And it's. Does it mean sinful? You know, it, it's just it's the, it's the nature of the, of the fallen human beast. We get tired and we get hungry and we get thirsty and, and we need help, you know, setting a table or fetching a donkey. Like these physical limitations that, that Jesus voluntarily took upon, it was fascinating to me because one of the core tenets, one of the core attributes of God is his, is his self sufficiency. He doesn't need anything outside of himself. so what does it mean for a God who by definition doesn't need anything, taking on need. and so you know, I went through a process of like thinking I had it. Oh yeah, this is going to be great. And then, being very quickly convinced that I did not have it at all. Kevan, just continuing, to, to tell me to keep writing, just keep writing. and it is amazing to almost re, direct your heart and mind, redirect your thinking, redirect your presuppositions. Because in, in the culture especially, especially the culture that we live in, and even in, in church world, in the, in the church culture when I, when I examine the majority of what I'm hearing from pulpits is, here is how you can become better and doesn't mean more holy, you know, more righteous, or even more like Jesus. It really, most of the preaching is here's how you can be better and what that means is you need other people less. Here's how you can become, you know, more, financially independent. Here's how you can form better habits, you know, that, that make you more effective in your place of work or even at home. And it begins to paint a picture that kind of the highest and best is, is like more and more independence and self sufficiency. When, if the idea is of being a Christian, being, being like a little Jesus, being like a little Christ, an image, bearer of the heart and character, of Christ. Like when Jesus himself embodied needs not as shameful problems, you know, to, to overcome. So we can actually get down to business. He actually used the occasion of his needs to get down to business with the people that he welcomed in to meet those needs, whether they be the disciples or the woman at the well, the woman that washed Jesus's feet. And I'm sure if we're going to take, the. Take John at his word and I think we should, you know, John said, this is just a tiny fraction of what Jesus did. So I'm sure the examples of Jesus, in treating with people, welcoming people in to meeting those needs because we know, I think all three, 100% of us are human beings. So every day we have these needs that have to be met. And if I could say just one more thing, Kevan. And it kind of, was just occurring to me hearing you, speak a second ago, men inherently, we want to accomplish tasks. We want to, you know, we want to get jobs done. So if Kevan didn't, need these needs met and just wanted to connect deeply with other men, and he said, I'm thinking about putting a calendar together and I want a rotation of men that will come see me first thing in the morning and come see me first thing at night, you know, to connect, you know, spiritually and emotionally and and you know, and just be real intimate. people be like, that's weird, a widow's house is on fire. I need to go put it out. You know, so my dog ate my homework.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But you know. Yeah.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: So Kevan, you like, your, your needs are so, apparent and they present like tasks to accomplish, like work to be done. And what Jesus does in the midst of meeting those physical, physical needs is he does actually knit soul. And you do real heart work. And the Holy Spirit does real, you know, heart surgery, which men would be reluctant to set. Like, you know, a woman could say, hey, let's get together. I just want to connect with you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Tell me. I'm gonna hold you right there. Because this is a great conversation and we're up against a break, and I want to explore this more, but I'm saying yes to all the things. It is so convicting, so powerful. The book is Hospitality Of Need How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together. I'll be right back with more from Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. Don't miss it.
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Jesus, Son of God by Brandon Heath: You came down from heaven's throne. This earth you formed was not your home. A love like this the world had never known. A crown of thorns to mock your name. Forgiveness fell upon your face. A love like this the world had never known. On the altar of our praise, let there be no higher name. Jesus, son of God, you lay down your perfect life. You are the sacrifice. Jesus, son of God. You are Jesus, son of God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Jesus, Son of God by Brandon Heath I love that song, too. I don't know if it's in my top 10. It's probably in my top 20. And again, I don't care if I have a thousand songs in my top 10. I love music and the power that it has to give us uplifting messages. And we're getting such an uplifting message today. The message today is need is not your enemy. Need is not the enemy of your community. Need is not something to be afraid, afraid of. Need is not something that is going to harm you. It is the soil in which your faith is going to grow and the. The liberating message of the Hospitality of Need. And I say liberating because it is liberating and just simply saying, hey, you know what? I'm human and I have needs. I mean, that's such a groundbreaking thought, right? We all have needs, but yet somehow in today's culture, it is seen as a sign of weakness. It's an inconvenience. We don't want to admit our need. In this book, the Hospitality of Need, it turns cultural assumptions upside down, which I love, and invites us into something richer and deeper and more beautiful and with such grace and humility. Authors Kevan Chandler, who is an international speaker, disability advocate, and Tommy Shelton, a pastor and father of six. They are offering stories and spiritual insights that challenge us to open our lives to one another. And when we carry one another's burdens, we don't just survive, we thrive. This is a conversation about healing, about hope, what it means to be the church. Not a place of perfection, but a place where people who show up for one another, needs and all. And, and Pastor Tommy Shelton was sharing with us how Jesus did this so beautifully, and we always have such a beautiful example to look at. And, you know, I always think, ah, Tommy, about Jesus having emotions. And I talk about that a lot, how Jesus had human emotions. He. He was sad, he was scared, he was angry. But I don't often think about that framework of him having needs. And you have talked about that and really talked about men having needs. We were right in the middle of a really good conversation about that, rudely interrupted by the live radio break.
It just may be more difficult to invite people into their point of need
I want to give it back to you, Tommy, and let you finish that thought and give a word of encouragement to men out there who are listening, who. It just may be more difficult to invite people into their point of need. Surely.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, I mean, I can say that, it is in.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Hang on just a second. I think we're having a little technical difficulty. Yeah, wait, wait one second. We've lost Pastor Tommy. Kevan, step in for your friend here and feel free to share any other. Oh. Thoughts we have until we get back. Pastor Tommy.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, yeah, I. I just. I love what Tommy was saying earlier about how men are kind of, project oriented. You know, we. We like to complete tasks and. And so it wouldn't really work for me to say, hey, I want to, invite, you know, invite you over for coffee once a week to really dive deep together. And yet, because I have these needs, real, real practical Needs, guys step up and respond to that. And as a result, I, think also they get a real, physical picture, literal picture of my vulnerability. And that opens them up to say, well, in a sense to realize, oh, well, Kevan's being vulnerable physically by letting me help him, maybe I can be vulnerable too. I can open up. and so what I found is my responsibility in that as they take care of my needs, I don't have to worry about my needs. I don't have to self advocate or. Or anything like that. I get to turn. Because their attention is on me, I get to turn my attention on them and what's going on in their heart and in their mind. And so that's kind of my. My responsibility, my. My job in that. And so realizing that my needs are an opportunity to, not just invite people in, but actually care for them in that process.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think you're right. Yeah, we do. Which is so great, because if we're being really honest, I think sometimes it is easier for women to ask for help, you know, if we're overwhelmed in some area of our life. Although sometimes there can be barriers there. But I really appreciate the unique perspective that you're providing. And Tommy, we're so glad to have you back. So go ahead and finish with what you were saying.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Yeah, what. What I need is my Internet provider to get their act together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: that's so brave of you to admit. Good job.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, we all say it's better to give than receive, but what I think we internalize or think that means is the giver is better than the receiver. And, And so that leads to an unwillingness to admit areas of need, which are opportunities for especially our fellow men to. To enter into those needs and meet them, which is something that we all, you know, a desire that we all. We all have. So you're really keeping. Especially speaking of men, especially to our brothers, like, we're kind of robbing them of opportunities to, you know, to have their souls fed. And I think a really godly way. I mean, you know, being the hero can of course, be an idol. Anything can be an idol. as Kevan has very wonderfully articulated, even, even a disability air quotes, can be idolized, you know, and worshiped. And it can. It can turn into something, you know, ugly, that it shouldn't be. so, you know, always through a righteous lens. but if our Lord and Savior didn't hesitate to admit his own areas of need and weakness, like, why. Why do we think that you Know that. That we shouldn't follow him in that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Pastor Tommy, I want to push in on that a little bit and really dive down, because I feel like there are a lot of men who need help with something. Maybe it's need needing help, emotionally processing something, needing help handling a problem that they're having, a relationship conflict, maybe trouble with their marriage, trouble with their kids, and their wife steps in and. And I hear from a lot of women who say, I'm trying to help, but he doesn't want my help. I don't know how to help him. And there are some times where I think men need that help from other men. So I want you to speak to the spiritual implications of that, maybe to men who think, you know, there's something that I do need some help with. How would you frame that to, to push them out of a rut, maybe that they're in, or just to move them to action, to actually seek and receive help?
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: I would just. I mean, and I try this, every opportunity I can in one on one. And I have a counseling appointment here in a few minutes. But also from the pulpit is that self sufficiency and control are an illusion. every man that I think has it all together doesn't, he's probably, done a much better job than me in. In taking care of things that are more, you know, exterior. maybe he's. He's probably better at lawn maintenance and bill paying than I am. but it doesn't mean that his soul is in good shape. It doesn't mean that he's a man, at peace and contentment when, you know, when the noise is turned off and he's sitting in silence. My. My heart really breaks for the men, that I know that are suffering, as. As veterans, you know, coming back from things they don't want to talk about, to a. To a marriage that probably was strained because of deployment. And all she wants is. Is, for the intimacy to be restored. And if you're a man who is keeping your vulnerabilities to yourself, you're actually keeping from her what she's most desperately desiring is a reconnection on a, on an intimate level. But you're. But you're like. You're thinking, no, I got to be the strong one. You know, I got to show her that I'm all together. You're actually. You're actually, cascading, a problem instead of leaning into it and admitting vulnerability, admitting weakness. and I mean, I struggle with this. There are things that I confess to other men that I don't. To my wife because I want my wife to be confident and in. In my ability to. To, you know, provide and keep it together. but I tell her that I've told other men, you know, areas of struggle. I don't, I don't keep anything from her, but I, you know, it doesn't mean I need to drag her through the grimy details. It just means that I need to be willing to say, honey, I'm. I'm really, you know, I'm really struggling. and if you could pray with me, you know, just, it's. It's amazing what the Lord can do with just little cracks in our pride and self sufficiency. It's just, you know, like a little crack is such a wide open opportunity for the Holy Spirit to, To get to work. And so what I'm praying is that, you know, and Kevan humbly willing to put himself out there the way he has. it's almost like, you know, hey, if I can do this, you know, if. If I can have, my needs met, you know, then. Then, why can't. You know, why can't you? that. That's always sad when.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's powerful. Go ahead.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Yeah, I would say it's almost. It's always sad when I don't know how to land the. Land the plane. Because that was a good flight, but I, I was.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It was a great flight. But you know what? That gives me a job. So I'll land it for you. It's a. All good. We'll partner here. Let me help you. Let me help you, Tommy. But, you know, you're so right, because I think about my own husband now. I married a hockey player from Jersey. He's a pretty macho type, you know, and he's got a group of men that. They have a text prayer chain, and it's a very unlikely friendship. I mean, these men are very different. Very different backgrounds, very different, you know, careers, very different personalities. But they share that feeling, faith. And there is a vulnerability I know that he has there that he can share on that text string to know that I, he can say, I'm m struggling with this, and immediately get back several prayers right back in that text message saying, hey, man, we got you. Like, we. We are praying for you. And it's really been an instrumental, ah, just encouragement, you know, for my husband. And even, he listens to my show every day. So. Hey, honey, yeah, I'm talking about you here. But even not too long ago, he was cutting some trees out front. Now, we may have had a disag about how and when the trees should be cut, you know, because that's just what goes on in a marriage. But if I feel like if I had brought him out a glass of water, been like, okay, yes, you know, I'm judging. I'm looking all of this. But he had. Our neighbors came out to help him, and it was just. There's such a camaraderie in helping each other, and it was a beautiful thing to see. And Kevan, going back to you, just exactly what Tommy said, I feel like you have given us such a beautiful gift and. And sharing these lessons. As I said in the very beginning, you don't have a choice about the physical needs that you have. People have to help you or life is not sustainable. You have to have help. But you do have a choice and the attitude with which you receive that help and with. With, which you give help to other people.
What do you hope people get from reading your book and sharing about your ministry
So I would love for you just to share maybe a closing word of encouragement, what you hope people will get from reading your story and reading your book and sharing about your ministry. So go ahead and tell people where they can learn more.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, well, I mean, Tommy and I have talked a lot about this, and we. Our hope, our desire for the book is that people, and especially the church, will, be encouraged and also challenged, to see their own limitations and weaknesses and vulnerabilities as m. As we said, as opportunities, as, tools. And not a bad thing, but actually a gift from God, to grow deeper together. And so, that's our. Our hope and our desire and our ongoing prayer. and, Tommy and I like to switch places here, so I'll tell you about his church. Live Oaks Bible Church. It's down in Palm Harbor, Florida. Just. Would you say it's in Tampa or near Tampa? I don't even know.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: It's right on the top of Tampa Bay.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, top of Tampa Bay. And, Tommy is the pastor there, and they're an awesome, awesome church. My wife and I love to go there when we're in town, and we try and make that happen at least once a year, if not more. And so you can look them up at LiveOaksBible Church, and, it's dot church instead of dot com, so Live Oaks Bible Church. And they have their sermons, they record them, and you can see what else they're doing. And I, invited Tommy into this project because I love the way he handles the word. And so you can.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I know if. If Tommy had the opportunity, he would lift up your platform as well.
You can donate to a child who wants a backpack just like Kevan carried himself
And since we're already at the end of the show, I will do that for you. It is we carry Kevan. That's K E V A N. By the way, wecarrykevan.org great opportunity. You can actually donate to a child who wants a backpack just like Kevan had to carry him across Europe. Kevan has other books, other children's books. Great early Christmas shopping. Yes. There, I did it. I just mentioned Christmas right in the middle of August. Am I sad? No, I'm not at all. And I'm not sorry either.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But listen, regardless. Regardless of where you are, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck prescribes Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we need some hope. If you, wherever you are in the summer, if the summer's just kind of normal for you, or if you're in that back to school, like we're ready to get back into a routine. I know that's where I am currently in my house. And I need help because I have four young adults and teenagers and it's so great, it's such a fun stage of life, but they. I also can't tell them to go to bed at 8 o'. Clock. So there is that. But I am hanging in there.
Too often in culture and in church, our needs are misunderstood
And today we have such a great dose of help and hope coming your way. One of my very favorite guests. I know I'm not supposed to say that, but I will anyway. Is here today with us, a friend of the show, and he has a really important message for us because too often in both culture and in church, our needs are misunderstood. Our needs, how we perceive them as the strong people that we are, are. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm being inconvenient. It's a weakness to be minimized. I mean, I know when I ask for help or when I hear people around me ask for help, if is usually preceded by an apology and usually it's something very small. I'm sorry, I'm trying to load the dishwasher. Can you move over? I need your help in that. And at our worst, we treat our needs as shameful burdens, really, to be hidden away. But what if we could reframe those needs to actually be invitations? What if the very things that we're trying to hide are, are the things that draw us deeper into community and friendship? I know, it is an intriguing thought, is it not? So today that's what we're going to talk about.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton talk about the hospitality of need
We're talking about the hospitality of need, how depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. And this is by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. And they're challenging us to stop viewing need as a flaw and instead see it as a fertile ground for Christlike friendship. They share some raw and real stories with, with a biblical framework. And they're showing us how to live in honest, mutual dependence and how and when we do, true Christian fellowship can flourish. Kevan so glad to see you back on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, thanks for having me, Jessica.
Kevin was born with spinal muscular atrophy and backpacked across Europe
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kevan, I'm excited because the last time that we were, together, I was able to meet your beautiful wife Katy, and we were able to meet up in Dallas and you. And we were promoting your children's book, We Carry Kevan, which tells a little bit of your story. And I have to tell you that ever since you've told me your story, it's just the thing that sticks is the fact that for our listeners who don't know, Kevan was born with spinal muscular atrophy and he was carried around by his friends, backpacked across Europe, and those friends were inspired by. This is what lives in infamy, Kevan. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's just the affection of my generation for Leonardo and you know, Michelangelo, Donatello, Raphael. Did I get them all? Did I say it right? Okay, I passed the Gen X quiz and you. You talked about. But so for, for listeners who maybe missed that show, which if you did go back and listen, just tell us a little bit about you and how you came to write this book, the Hospitality of Need.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, M. Well, I mean you, You've, You've said it all. I. Spinal muscular atrophy and I spend my life in a power wheelchair and also depending on a lot of people to make my, My life possible. And that includes growing up that included my my siblings and my parents and my parents friends. And then later it became more of my friends doing that, caregiving and, and helping with my needs and that you know, resulted in a lot of bumped heads on doorways and all kinds of fun accidents along the way. but a lot of deepening relationships that ah, really changed my life and shaped who I am today. And now, you know, it includes my wife and ah, a bunch of friends here in Indiana. And when the guys and I went to Europe in 2016, we left my realtor at home and they just carried me around in a backpack for three weeks, taking turns and not just carrying me, but taking care of me. at the end of a high flying adventure day, they also had to, you know, help me eat and had to take me to the restroom and get me ready for bed. And the. That part of it never really stopped. And so, I got to write a book about that three week adventure. And after the book came out and everything, the questions started kind of circulating in myself and among friends of, well, what do I write next what story do I tell? And I, really wanted to open it up m More and share about not just those, but, those friends on that trip for three weeks. You know, I, I did a lot of interviews where people would talk about how great my friends were and I, I wanted them to know. Well, it's more than six guys. There's like 30 or 40 or 50 if you reach back far enough, you know, and, and And so this book really came out of, two things. A desire to share more of how I live my life and, and what it looks like, to the glory of God. And then also wanted to write something that really honored, and celebrated my friends from throughout the years.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Kevan, that is just really so beautiful. And before we even dive into that, I want to tell you that one of the things that really stood out to me in my previous talks with you and conversation is that you thanked your parents for giving you life. And your life is such a beautiful affirmation of life and what living life to the fullness of Christ can look like. And that's so inspiring because, you know, I, I've been working also with Nick Vujicic Nick V Ministries is a man who was born with no arms or leg and legs. And similarly he's very dependent on other people for his physical needs. And having been, you know, working with his ministry, seeing what that looks like in person on a day to day basis and then seeing your situation, I think, you know, you are dependent on other people for your physical needs. You have to have help in that way. And you, you don't have a choice about that. But what you do have a choice about is the attitude with which you approach that. And Kevan, I, really have never seen anything like it. And reading your book, we carry Kevan, the adult version and the kids version, and seeing your affection for your friends, your dependence on your friends, your attitude about it, it was really convicting because I think there's a lot of other people who may not have those kinds of physical needs like you have maybe, but they have emotional needs, they have mental health needs. Those are so much easier to hide. They're so much easier to just refuse help for and to not reach out for. And I think there is something really powerful for us to learn from you today about how about your just your attitude toward it. So let's start with talking about the name of the book, the Hospitality of Need. It seems like that doesn't go together. So how did you, how did you name this book? How did Frame for Us, your mindset and accepting people's help. And how you, how that relates to the title.
Kevan Chandler: Well, you know, it's funny, I, I can't really take credit. I, I didn't name it per se. I, I decided that should be the name. But the, that title came from a friend of mine, one of the guys here. We were at a prayer meeting, a men's prayer group one morning and they had invited me to come and share my testimony. And afterwards, the men gathered around and were praying over me. And this one friend, during his prayer, he thanked God for giving me the gift of the hospitality of need. And I think it was a Holy spirit moment for him to say that and for me to hear it and for it to stick. Because I thought that's an odd phrase but I want to sit on it for a while. And so I took some time to process that. And in the meantime I was trying to come up with what this book would look like, what the through line and kind of the driving point of it was. and I talked with a bunch of different friends about it and said when I say this phrase, what do you think of. And I got all these great responses about you know, one guy saying well, and I talk about this in the book. He, he got me up at that time, got me up every Tuesday and he said well you know, you need my help on Tuesday mornings to get up in the morning. and he, he runs, he ran a, a non profit here in, in the city that was very and gave him very full days. And he was also ministering to the, the tattoo artist scene and the MMA gym scene. And he had his own family with kids and just his life was kind of non stop. And he said, you know, you need me to get you up every Tuesday. But that gives me like a guaranteed hour and a half of quiet stillness with a friend. And that's the only stillness I get in the week, you know. And and there were others that said similar things. I have this rhythm to, to see a friend each week or this is the only rhythm in my life that I'm coming every Wednesday, you know. And, and so I, I was, I guess it was already something that I was living in, but I finally had terminology for it which was that our needs can have an element of hospitality in them. that our needs are, so often as you said, we see them as burdens, we see them as things to be ashamed of. But also on the other hand, we can see them as, we can put them up as idols. We can say, my need is more important. It's paramount over anything else in your world should revolve around it too, you know, and so, realizing that our needs are actually, their tools, they're opportunities that God is giving us to walk in together, shoulder to shoulder, and go into deeper relationship with one another and with him. And, so that. That is. I mean, if that's not hospitable, I don't know what is, you know. And. And, And so that's kind of where the title came from. And, and that really brought focus and clarity to the book.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton write a book about friendship through need
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's interesting that you just said the word idols. We've actually been talking about that a lot. I think my attention has been drawn to it because I walked some ancient paths in this summer and traveled a little bit and saw where, you know, there are physical idols, in other parts of the world that are still so prevalent. But it was really convicting to me, Kevan, because I thought we have idols too. We've just shrouded them in different disguises, you know, and we don't consider them to be idols. But what you just said about it's an idol, basically, I think the idol is our own strength because there's a certain vulnerability and trust. And I remember you describing that before, like, even being put in someone else's backpack. And that's. That's part of. Through, what's in your children's book we carry Kevan. Like, what if you drop me? What if all of these things, there's a certain vulnerability where you have to lay down your own strength and say, I can't do this. I need your help. And I think that's where we can learn so much from you and your humility and. And the way that you minister to others. That's what I think was such a beautiful thing too, because you minister to others. You were going through Europe. You made so many people smile, people taking pictures with you, people just encouraged by you. And just what you said, you ministering to people who are ministering to you, that's one of the beautiful things. I encourage you if you are having trouble asking for help, if you have some needs, if you want to heal and grow together, get a copy of this book called the Hospitality of Need with Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. How depending on one another and helps us heal and grow together. And Kevan and Tommy share in this book what can happen when we invite others into our lives, hardships and all. And ultimately it's a book about friendship, the kind that God has called us to live in. Friendship that flourishes not in spite of, but actually through need. And this is for caregivers, care receivers, and the wider Christian community. Hey, it is fall and I know that there are some groups starting up. This may be a book that you want to have a book club for and sit and discuss. And when we come back, I've got so many more questions for Kevan. We'll talk about what his everyday life looks like in the context of this book, some of the personal stories that they share and how they're we're working about through this idea that hospitality actually impacts our relationship so much more from Kevan Chandler. When we come back, the hospital of need, how, depending on one another helps us heal and grow together. I will see you with more help and hope. On the other side of this break. Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by preborn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat. The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside, I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love. PreBorn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership gift and sponsor a machine today? These life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com/AFR who could.
Living Hope by Phil Wickham: Imagine so great a mercy? What heart could fathom such boundless grace? The God of ages step down from glory to wear my sin and bear my shame. The cross has spoken, I am forgiven. The king of kings calls me his own beautiful savior. I'm yours forever. Jesus Christ, my living hope. Hallelujah, Praise the one who set me free. Hallelujah. Death has lost its grip on me. You have broken every chain. There's salvation in your name. Jesus Christ, my living hope.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Living Hope by Phil Wickham. And it's in my top 10 list that I think is up to about, I don't know, 347 songs now. But am I sorry? No, I am not sorry because we are always in need of hope. And in fact I have A playlist that I'm curating that is just all songs of hope. And when I feel a loss of hope, when I feel down, when I feel discouraged, I always remember and ah, that God is the giver of hope. And in a world that prizes self sufficiency, we try to find our own hope sometimes. And it's easy to overlook the stuff sacred power of mutual dependence and finding hope in that. But in the body of Christ, we just simply aren't meant to go it alone. Even from the early days, the church had such hospitality and they helped each other. The hospitality of need is not just a book. It is a gentle and maybe it's a gentle but very strong wake up call to the church. Co authors Kevan Chandler and Pastor Tommy Shelton. After, after. A deeply human, biblically rooted perspective on friendship that just doesn't just survive in the presence of need. It thrives there. It's born there. So whether you find yourself in a place of giving care or receiving it, this conversation today is going to invite you to rethink how God uses both of those roles as caregiver and care receiver to deepen your relationships, grow your empathy and reveal God's heart for community. And we are joined today by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton is now joining us. We're so glad to have both of you. We've had Kevan on the show before and Kevan was sharing his personal story and so inspiring to me. Just his humility and his courage and his grace and just his honesty and sharing what that is like. And Tommy, we're so glad to have you too. I would love for you to share with our listeners. And how did you get to be so lucky to co author a book with Kevan? How did that partnership and friendship come about?
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, surely, and thank you for having me. and I don't want to be obnoxious or anything, but I don't believe in luck. I believe in Providence. And so I know that the Lord ordained this partnership and it really has been, just something to receive with a lot of thanksgiving and gratitude for his grace and turning a friendship into a partnership in this way, which then in turn I think greatly deepened the friendship. So, the project, I think, on the Lord's Heart wasn't just a book, but also for Kevan and I to become even closer friends than we were when we started. So.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I appreciate that I can.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Certainly attest to that happening in the process of, of writing. Writing the book.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, and I echo, you're right there. Is no such thing as luck. There's no such thing as coincidence. You are so right. I believe that God is in the details, in every little detail. And it's a really hopeful outlook to see your life as ordained by God and that he cares about even the smallest things.
Kevan says caregiving has enriched his marriage and has helped build character
And Kevan, I want to go back to you for a minute and talk about a little bit more. What does your everyday life look like in the context of this book? You shared a little bit about your caregiver on Tuesdays. What else would you like to share about what that looks like on a practical level?
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, I mean I. Right now it's You know, I'm coming up on five years of marriage and Katy and I have had a lot of conversations about not just the depth of friendship that I, and actually she and I get to experience with these guys who come in and are part of our life and part of our home. helping out with my caregiving and traveling with them as well like Tommy and I have done. He's gone on road trips with Katy and I and been part of helping me with the restroom and showers and stuff. And And so that has done some amazing things as far as you know, bringing us closer and having a different kind of friendship than the world knows what to do with. but also, you know, you were asking about day to day and what comes to mind for me is what Katy and I have talked about as far as my needs have led us into a ah, deeper marriage. And so you know, if, if she's helping me with the restroom a handful of times throughout the day, that is, no matter how busy we are or going different directions, she's out running errands right now and we're doing this interview. but if, if I need help with again the restroom or getting my arm up on the table to hold the book open or we stop for lunch, these are all moments, where our world has to slow down and we are face to face. and what that does as far as quality time m together, the physical touch of caregiving. all of this just has enriched our marriage so, so much that you know we, we are coming up on five years and. And yet it feels like we've been married for 35 years just because, because of the, the intimacy that that brings, the, the depth of relationship. And But yeah, I, I think so that, that's kind of where we get to experience the hospitality of need most prevalently. and I think too going back to the friends who help out on a day to day basis. I mean, I have guys that, you know, aren't on the rotation at the moment and they reach out and say, hey, can I get back on? Or you know, because I miss hanging out so much, or I just, I need this to be a part of my life. And There's a chapter in the book that talks about, and you alluded to this earlier, the idea of trusting someone. And you know, the clearest example in my life, in some ways maybe the most extreme example, we'll say it that way, was going to Europe and being carried on these guys backs because it's like, you know, I'm gonna trust that you're not gonna trip, you're not gonna fall, you're, you're not gonna go in a direction we shouldn't go. You're gonna duck in the doorways of, you know, subway, subway cars and stuff. And and. And yet I get to see that, or I get to practice that every day, as I invite these guys in and say, hey, I trust I'm entrusting myself to you, that you will help me with what I need, that you'll pick me up, that you'll move me carefully. And things like that. And that, I found, and Tommy can probably speak into this, that, that really does something especially to men, who want to be trusted. And it builds character and encourages growth into the men of God that we've been called to be. And so I'm so thankful to be a part of that. And you were talking earlier about how to care for others and the intentionality of that. And I think, you know, God's going to use your needs to bless others whether you like it or not. It's really a question of am I going to participate in that? am I going to be intentional as a way to participate in what he's going to do? or am I just going to miss it?
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so convicting, Kevan. That is really convicting because you're absolutely right. And one of the things that you just said that was really intriguing to me is the fact that time slows down and we live in a world that goes at the speed of a smartphone. And we want instant fixes, we want instant gratification, we can view other people's needs. I know as a parent sometimes I view that, my children's needs as an inconvenience instead of an opportunity to connect. And it's just Even as you're continuing to share your story, it's so convicting because you talk about it has to be one person who's willing to serve and another person who is willing to, to be served. And part of that, the appeal of this book is you share your stories just like you did just now, Kevan, even in those day to day things and some of those physical things. But imagine what that looks like in caring, for someone who has anxiety throughout the day, who has grief throughout the day, who has depression throughout the day, having those little connections where the world slows down and meeting their point of need. That is really beautiful. But those personal stories are backed with beautiful biblical commentary. And Tommy, I'm sure that's where you came in and were able to provide some wisdom from your own experience and, and your own background. So what does that look like, taking those personal stories but also looking at them through the lens of the truth of scripture. Tell us about that process and what readers will get from the book.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Surely. So the, I mean that was the real, and whether it was intentional on Kevan's part or just intentional on God's part. But the, the, the idea or the question that really hooked me into the book was Kevan's observation that, that Christ as God incarnate, God in, in our flesh actually would have needs that the flesh has. And it's. Does it mean sinful? You know, it, it's just it's the, it's the nature of the, of the fallen human beast. We get tired and we get hungry and we get thirsty and, and we need help, you know, setting a table or fetching a donkey. Like these physical limitations that, that Jesus voluntarily took upon, it was fascinating to me because one of the core tenets, one of the core attributes of God is his, is his self sufficiency. He doesn't need anything outside of himself. so what does it mean for a God who by definition doesn't need anything, taking on need. and so you know, I went through a process of like thinking I had it. Oh yeah, this is going to be great. And then, being very quickly convinced that I did not have it at all. Kevan, just continuing, to, to tell me to keep writing, just keep writing. and it is amazing to almost re, direct your heart and mind, redirect your thinking, redirect your presuppositions. Because in, in the culture especially, especially the culture that we live in, and even in, in church world, in the, in the church culture when I, when I examine the majority of what I'm hearing from pulpits is, here is how you can become better and doesn't mean more holy, you know, more righteous, or even more like Jesus. It really, most of the preaching is here's how you can be better and what that means is you need other people less. Here's how you can become, you know, more, financially independent. Here's how you can form better habits, you know, that, that make you more effective in your place of work or even at home. And it begins to paint a picture that kind of the highest and best is, is like more and more independence and self sufficiency. When, if the idea is of being a Christian, being, being like a little Jesus, being like a little Christ, an image, bearer of the heart and character, of Christ. Like when Jesus himself embodied needs not as shameful problems, you know, to, to overcome. So we can actually get down to business. He actually used the occasion of his needs to get down to business with the people that he welcomed in to meet those needs, whether they be the disciples or the woman at the well, the woman that washed Jesus's feet. And I'm sure if we're going to take, the. Take John at his word and I think we should, you know, John said, this is just a tiny fraction of what Jesus did. So I'm sure the examples of Jesus, in treating with people, welcoming people in to meeting those needs because we know, I think all three, 100% of us are human beings. So every day we have these needs that have to be met. And if I could say just one more thing, Kevan. And it kind of, was just occurring to me hearing you, speak a second ago, men inherently, we want to accomplish tasks. We want to, you know, we want to get jobs done. So if Kevan didn't, need these needs met and just wanted to connect deeply with other men, and he said, I'm thinking about putting a calendar together and I want a rotation of men that will come see me first thing in the morning and come see me first thing at night, you know, to connect, you know, spiritually and emotionally and and you know, and just be real intimate. people be like, that's weird, a widow's house is on fire. I need to go put it out. You know, so my dog ate my homework.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But you know. Yeah.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: So Kevan, you like, your, your needs are so, apparent and they present like tasks to accomplish, like work to be done. And what Jesus does in the midst of meeting those physical, physical needs is he does actually knit soul. And you do real heart work. And the Holy Spirit does real, you know, heart surgery, which men would be reluctant to set. Like, you know, a woman could say, hey, let's get together. I just want to connect with you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Tell me. I'm gonna hold you right there. Because this is a great conversation and we're up against a break, and I want to explore this more, but I'm saying yes to all the things. It is so convicting, so powerful. The book is Hospitality Of Need How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together. I'll be right back with more from Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton. Don't miss it.
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Jesus, Son of God by Brandon Heath: You came down from heaven's throne. This earth you formed was not your home. A love like this the world had never known. A crown of thorns to mock your name. Forgiveness fell upon your face. A love like this the world had never known. On the altar of our praise, let there be no higher name. Jesus, son of God, you lay down your perfect life. You are the sacrifice. Jesus, son of God. You are Jesus, son of God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Jesus, Son of God by Brandon Heath I love that song, too. I don't know if it's in my top 10. It's probably in my top 20. And again, I don't care if I have a thousand songs in my top 10. I love music and the power that it has to give us uplifting messages. And we're getting such an uplifting message today. The message today is need is not your enemy. Need is not the enemy of your community. Need is not something to be afraid, afraid of. Need is not something that is going to harm you. It is the soil in which your faith is going to grow and the. The liberating message of the Hospitality of Need. And I say liberating because it is liberating and just simply saying, hey, you know what? I'm human and I have needs. I mean, that's such a groundbreaking thought, right? We all have needs, but yet somehow in today's culture, it is seen as a sign of weakness. It's an inconvenience. We don't want to admit our need. In this book, the Hospitality of Need, it turns cultural assumptions upside down, which I love, and invites us into something richer and deeper and more beautiful and with such grace and humility. Authors Kevan Chandler, who is an international speaker, disability advocate, and Tommy Shelton, a pastor and father of six. They are offering stories and spiritual insights that challenge us to open our lives to one another. And when we carry one another's burdens, we don't just survive, we thrive. This is a conversation about healing, about hope, what it means to be the church. Not a place of perfection, but a place where people who show up for one another, needs and all. And, and Pastor Tommy Shelton was sharing with us how Jesus did this so beautifully, and we always have such a beautiful example to look at. And, you know, I always think, ah, Tommy, about Jesus having emotions. And I talk about that a lot, how Jesus had human emotions. He. He was sad, he was scared, he was angry. But I don't often think about that framework of him having needs. And you have talked about that and really talked about men having needs. We were right in the middle of a really good conversation about that, rudely interrupted by the live radio break.
It just may be more difficult to invite people into their point of need
I want to give it back to you, Tommy, and let you finish that thought and give a word of encouragement to men out there who are listening, who. It just may be more difficult to invite people into their point of need. Surely.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, I mean, I can say that, it is in.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Hang on just a second. I think we're having a little technical difficulty. Yeah, wait, wait one second. We've lost Pastor Tommy. Kevan, step in for your friend here and feel free to share any other. Oh. Thoughts we have until we get back. Pastor Tommy.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, yeah, I. I just. I love what Tommy was saying earlier about how men are kind of, project oriented. You know, we. We like to complete tasks and. And so it wouldn't really work for me to say, hey, I want to, invite, you know, invite you over for coffee once a week to really dive deep together. And yet, because I have these needs, real, real practical Needs, guys step up and respond to that. And as a result, I, think also they get a real, physical picture, literal picture of my vulnerability. And that opens them up to say, well, in a sense to realize, oh, well, Kevan's being vulnerable physically by letting me help him, maybe I can be vulnerable too. I can open up. and so what I found is my responsibility in that as they take care of my needs, I don't have to worry about my needs. I don't have to self advocate or. Or anything like that. I get to turn. Because their attention is on me, I get to turn my attention on them and what's going on in their heart and in their mind. And so that's kind of my. My responsibility, my. My job in that. And so realizing that my needs are an opportunity to, not just invite people in, but actually care for them in that process.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think you're right. Yeah, we do. Which is so great, because if we're being really honest, I think sometimes it is easier for women to ask for help, you know, if we're overwhelmed in some area of our life. Although sometimes there can be barriers there. But I really appreciate the unique perspective that you're providing. And Tommy, we're so glad to have you back. So go ahead and finish with what you were saying.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Yeah, what. What I need is my Internet provider to get their act together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: that's so brave of you to admit. Good job.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Well, we all say it's better to give than receive, but what I think we internalize or think that means is the giver is better than the receiver. And, And so that leads to an unwillingness to admit areas of need, which are opportunities for especially our fellow men to. To enter into those needs and meet them, which is something that we all, you know, a desire that we all. We all have. So you're really keeping. Especially speaking of men, especially to our brothers, like, we're kind of robbing them of opportunities to, you know, to have their souls fed. And I think a really godly way. I mean, you know, being the hero can of course, be an idol. Anything can be an idol. as Kevan has very wonderfully articulated, even, even a disability air quotes, can be idolized, you know, and worshiped. And it can. It can turn into something, you know, ugly, that it shouldn't be. so, you know, always through a righteous lens. but if our Lord and Savior didn't hesitate to admit his own areas of need and weakness, like, why. Why do we think that you Know that. That we shouldn't follow him in that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Pastor Tommy, I want to push in on that a little bit and really dive down, because I feel like there are a lot of men who need help with something. Maybe it's need needing help, emotionally processing something, needing help handling a problem that they're having, a relationship conflict, maybe trouble with their marriage, trouble with their kids, and their wife steps in and. And I hear from a lot of women who say, I'm trying to help, but he doesn't want my help. I don't know how to help him. And there are some times where I think men need that help from other men. So I want you to speak to the spiritual implications of that, maybe to men who think, you know, there's something that I do need some help with. How would you frame that to, to push them out of a rut, maybe that they're in, or just to move them to action, to actually seek and receive help?
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: I would just. I mean, and I try this, every opportunity I can in one on one. And I have a counseling appointment here in a few minutes. But also from the pulpit is that self sufficiency and control are an illusion. every man that I think has it all together doesn't, he's probably, done a much better job than me in. In taking care of things that are more, you know, exterior. maybe he's. He's probably better at lawn maintenance and bill paying than I am. but it doesn't mean that his soul is in good shape. It doesn't mean that he's a man, at peace and contentment when, you know, when the noise is turned off and he's sitting in silence. My. My heart really breaks for the men, that I know that are suffering, as. As veterans, you know, coming back from things they don't want to talk about, to a. To a marriage that probably was strained because of deployment. And all she wants is. Is, for the intimacy to be restored. And if you're a man who is keeping your vulnerabilities to yourself, you're actually keeping from her what she's most desperately desiring is a reconnection on a, on an intimate level. But you're. But you're like. You're thinking, no, I got to be the strong one. You know, I got to show her that I'm all together. You're actually. You're actually, cascading, a problem instead of leaning into it and admitting vulnerability, admitting weakness. and I mean, I struggle with this. There are things that I confess to other men that I don't. To my wife because I want my wife to be confident and in. In my ability to. To, you know, provide and keep it together. but I tell her that I've told other men, you know, areas of struggle. I don't, I don't keep anything from her, but I, you know, it doesn't mean I need to drag her through the grimy details. It just means that I need to be willing to say, honey, I'm. I'm really, you know, I'm really struggling. and if you could pray with me, you know, just, it's. It's amazing what the Lord can do with just little cracks in our pride and self sufficiency. It's just, you know, like a little crack is such a wide open opportunity for the Holy Spirit to, To get to work. And so what I'm praying is that, you know, and Kevan humbly willing to put himself out there the way he has. it's almost like, you know, hey, if I can do this, you know, if. If I can have, my needs met, you know, then. Then, why can't. You know, why can't you? that. That's always sad when.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's powerful. Go ahead.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: Yeah, I would say it's almost. It's always sad when I don't know how to land the. Land the plane. Because that was a good flight, but I, I was.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It was a great flight. But you know what? That gives me a job. So I'll land it for you. It's a. All good. We'll partner here. Let me help you. Let me help you, Tommy. But, you know, you're so right, because I think about my own husband now. I married a hockey player from Jersey. He's a pretty macho type, you know, and he's got a group of men that. They have a text prayer chain, and it's a very unlikely friendship. I mean, these men are very different. Very different backgrounds, very different, you know, careers, very different personalities. But they share that feeling, faith. And there is a vulnerability I know that he has there that he can share on that text string to know that I, he can say, I'm m struggling with this, and immediately get back several prayers right back in that text message saying, hey, man, we got you. Like, we. We are praying for you. And it's really been an instrumental, ah, just encouragement, you know, for my husband. And even, he listens to my show every day. So. Hey, honey, yeah, I'm talking about you here. But even not too long ago, he was cutting some trees out front. Now, we may have had a disag about how and when the trees should be cut, you know, because that's just what goes on in a marriage. But if I feel like if I had brought him out a glass of water, been like, okay, yes, you know, I'm judging. I'm looking all of this. But he had. Our neighbors came out to help him, and it was just. There's such a camaraderie in helping each other, and it was a beautiful thing to see. And Kevan, going back to you, just exactly what Tommy said, I feel like you have given us such a beautiful gift and. And sharing these lessons. As I said in the very beginning, you don't have a choice about the physical needs that you have. People have to help you or life is not sustainable. You have to have help. But you do have a choice and the attitude with which you receive that help and with. With, which you give help to other people.
What do you hope people get from reading your book and sharing about your ministry
So I would love for you just to share maybe a closing word of encouragement, what you hope people will get from reading your story and reading your book and sharing about your ministry. So go ahead and tell people where they can learn more.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, well, I mean, Tommy and I have talked a lot about this, and we. Our hope, our desire for the book is that people, and especially the church, will, be encouraged and also challenged, to see their own limitations and weaknesses and vulnerabilities as m. As we said, as opportunities, as, tools. And not a bad thing, but actually a gift from God, to grow deeper together. And so, that's our. Our hope and our desire and our ongoing prayer. and, Tommy and I like to switch places here, so I'll tell you about his church. Live Oaks Bible Church. It's down in Palm Harbor, Florida. Just. Would you say it's in Tampa or near Tampa? I don't even know.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton: It's right on the top of Tampa Bay.
Kevan Chandler: Yeah, top of Tampa Bay. And, Tommy is the pastor there, and they're an awesome, awesome church. My wife and I love to go there when we're in town, and we try and make that happen at least once a year, if not more. And so you can look them up at LiveOaksBible Church, and, it's dot church instead of dot com, so Live Oaks Bible Church. And they have their sermons, they record them, and you can see what else they're doing. And I, invited Tommy into this project because I love the way he handles the word. And so you can.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I know if. If Tommy had the opportunity, he would lift up your platform as well.
You can donate to a child who wants a backpack just like Kevan carried himself
And since we're already at the end of the show, I will do that for you. It is we carry Kevan. That's K E V A N. By the way, wecarrykevan.org great opportunity. You can actually donate to a child who wants a backpack just like Kevan had to carry him across Europe. Kevan has other books, other children's books. Great early Christmas shopping. Yes. There, I did it. I just mentioned Christmas right in the middle of August. Am I sad? No, I'm not at all. And I'm not sorry either.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But listen, regardless. Regardless of where you are, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton discuss their book "The Hospitality of Need" and the importance of building deeper community through shared hardships.
Rx for Hope: Bear One Another's Burdens
https://thehospitalityofneed.com/
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