Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, today I am convinced that we have a very powerful message to deliver to you. So if you are married, if you want to be married, we were talking about marriage at all, if marriage impacts your daily life at all, then listen in because I have a question for you. What if your marriage had a game plan as strong as a championship teams playbook? Our guests today, George and Tondra Gregory, have been on the front lines of both faith and football, coaching couples toward victory in love. I love this. For more than two decades, they are marriage coaches, they are NFL chaplains. They have helped everyone from everyday couples to professional athletes strengthen their relationships, overcome obstacles, and win the home game. And their book, the Marriage Game Plan, offers biblically grounded practical strategies so you and your spouse can stop just playing the game and start playing to win. So today we're going to dive in. How to build unity, how to tackle tough conversations and create a winning plan for your marriage, no matter what stage, season of life that you are in. God designed marriage to be a winning team. So are you running his plays? Are you making it up as you go? That is the question we're going to dive into. And George and Tondra, so very grateful to have you here on the show today.
Tondra Gregory Thank you so much.
George Gregory Awesome.
Tondra Gregory This is great.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's going to be a great conversation. And you know, my husband believes that there is no problem on this earth that can't be solved with faith and a sports analogy. So I feel he is going to love this. Anytime he coaches our kids, there's going to be a story about a blind father watching his son play football in heaven. It's a long story, but there's going to be some sort of sports analogy. And you know, I look back at my husband and I and, we've been married for almost 27 years and we've definitely had our ups and downs. We came from very, very different families. My husband came from a very fiery Italian family who, you know, argues with their hands, has very intense fellowship, likes to, you know, like, escalate the, the verbal dialogue. I came from a very passive aggressive family. We're like, yeah, we're going to talk about it, but behind your back and, you know, not with each other, but it, it has been tough. It really has been tough. And I tell my kids all the time, marriage is tough. But I hope that you see your dad and I just crawling back toward the cross seeking the grace of God. And you have been very open in sharing your own story.
Your journey in marriage ministry began with your own marriage
So let's start with that and talk about your own story. Story. You've been marriage coaches, but your journey in marriage ministry began with your own marriage. So I would love to hear your own story about that.
Tondra Gregory Yes. Yeah.
George Gregory Yeah. Well, we, we often say that marriage is a team sport. Right. And it can get messy. It's rewarding, but it can get messy. And so we found ourselves, meeting each other in college. we Met in Biology 101 and first day of classes in college. And Tondra, she was so good looking that I said, man, I, I think I'll follow her around. And and so we found ourselves dating. And many years later we found ourselves, dating too much. And so we found ourselves pregnant and with a kid on the way. And we didn't quite know what to do, but we were prepared to take care of our kid. And so we chose to, to be married. We chose to get married and we chose to, to try to do it God's way, you know? You know, and so I think, yeah.
Tondra Gregory And once, and once the dust settled on that decision and we were just left with, okay, now what do we do? What, how do you be married? And just like you and your husband, we, we found that we were so different in how we were raised. Which you, which we knew that, but you just don't know how that background is going to come into play play when it's time to do life together as a husband and a wife. And so George came from a two parent home, a Christian home. Traditionally like the dad was the leader of the home and his mom was more, you know, submissive to, to that leadership. I came from a single parent home where my mom was the dominant person and she was, I say she brought home the bacon and fried it up in the pan. Right. And so those things, you think, okay, we know that about each other, but you don't know like the power dynamic that it will bring in this unconscious way.
George Gregory So I'm sure your listeners could tell already like we, who is in charge. Right. That was the big question of, you know, I thought I was in charge, she thought she was in charge. And there ensued a power struggle from the very beginning without relating to our differences.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, yeah. And we didn't know this was going on, we just were just responding and reacting to each other. And so that's why getting that game plan helped us figure out, oh, it's our backgrounds clashing. We have to actually get a plan about how to come become one.
You got married very quickly and had to figure those things out quickly
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, this is so real because you just said, you know, these things kind of inherently, you know that you're different, but you don't really know how that's going to work out in everyday life until you start and you've been transparent and sharing your stories. I mean, you got married very quickly and had to figure those things out quickly. And I can relate with that power struggle because I used to make a joke saying, yeah, my husband wears the pants. I just tell him which pair. That's how this works, which pair to put on in the morning. But you know, you've got to figure out all of those power dynamics, those communication dynamics, and it can be really, really hard. And when you look at some of the statistics that you provide, in the book about marriage, which we all inherently know, it's pretty bleak and most marriages don't make it. I mean, that's just the honest truth. When we look at E, even the marriages that say they don't end in divorce, but they just end in a mutual pact of misery, like, all right, we're not going to divorce, but we're just going to stay together miserable, whether that's for the kids or whatever other reason. How did you come through that place where it was hard, it was difficult, and you've made it out on the other side and now this is your ministry.
George Gregory Yeah. Well, I think, you know, mindset is, is key, right? Which is sports related mindset, is key because you have to determine that you are going to win regardless of where you are in that tough season. Right. So when we first got to the LA Chargers, our first four games, we were 0 and 4. For all your listeners, that's not a good thing. And yet we knew that the season was long. In fact, our coach, coach Anthony Lynn said, hey, we're only 0 and 4 in the first quarter. We got three more quarters to go. And your listeners are, there may be a few of your listeners that might be in a tough season or feel, like I'm in a losing season, don't give up. Like that's what we had to do is we had to have that mindset that we might not be winning right now, but things are going to turn, the season is going to change. And we were determined that we were going to get this right through self study or going through, retreats or getaways, or really asking mentors to really look at our life and tell us what we were doing. Right. We needed a coach and we started asking each other. Sorry. We started asking mentors to help us, help us to win because we didn't know what we were doing, but we tried to get the most help that we could.
Tondra Gregory Yeah. And, and marriage is one of the most important institutions that you'll be a part of. It's. It lives beyond you. And we, you know, we know that in anything that we want to be successful at, like in our careers or our sport or our academics, you know, we know you have to put that level of work, mentorship, coaching, reading seminars, workshops, you know, we have that mindset for those outside things. But sometimes we don't realize that marriage requires no less effort if you want to be successful at it. It's not something you just know just because you love each other, just because you said, I do. It's something you learn how to do and you have to apply yourself to, to get out of that dark place. And that's how. And that's exactly. We started reading books and going to conferences. We went to one conference session seven years, seven consecutive years in a row, and there was no new content. It was the same content. We could complete their sentences before they finished. And it was the discipline of us saying, we're going to keep our marriage, on the forefront as a priority, and we're going to go and make it and learn at one new thing each year and apply one new thing each year, and slowly just started getting our way out of that dark place.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, that's really convicting to think about, because when you think about our, the other parts of our lives, I think about, you know, what people would say is their priority. And people, most people who are married are going to say, my marriage, my family, is a priority. But I feel like the real accountability partners in that are your credit card statement and your calendar. Where are you investing your time and resources in that? And even in going to a marriage conference, you paid money to go. You probably paid for a babysitter or a hotel to travel or. And you used your time to do that. And I think about all of the other things that we invest in as married couples. You may have a financial planner or your kids. You know, you may have an academic coach or a pitching coach or whatever sports that they're in. And you think about all of those things that you invest in for Your financial health for your kids, academic health, for their athletic health. But really what are you investing in your marriage? And I think a lot of times when you might be in that place of misery and marriage, because sometimes that can happen where you're just feel like you're in a rut and you are having repeated conflict, I think it's really convicting to look around and see what are you investing in. And one of the things that I'm really grateful for, you guys is that you've created a resource that couples can invest in. And even better, it's a sports analogy. Sports is king in America. Let's just be real. So these analogies are so relatable. How did you think of the idea to write the marriage game plan and lay out your vision for what you would expect couples to experience as they go through this resource together?
George Gregory Yeah, well, you know, working with NFL teams for the past 16 years, just really gave us insight on what pros do and how they, you know, try to be better or try to get better. They try to improve. And, and, and when you ask them questions about how do you get on that elite level, they have a litany of things that they, they do, whether it's coaches or nutrition or, or, or, or just, you know, giving up their Saturdays or their weekends to go and play, play sports in that discipline. And what we learned was, is that pros don't show up and just say they want to win. Right? A championship game. They have to start with the beginning in mind. That's the preseason. That's how they interface with their teammates. And so we, we looked at this concept especially, especially for men, right? We know that most ladies, they're going to buy the books, they're going to sign us up for conferences. The men, we just kind of sit back. But we wrote this book with, in mind, with men in mind, because we know that sometimes men, we are a little hesitant to sort of, focus on that. And so with, with when, when it comes to men, we, we, we try to write this curriculum so that they would understand the language of sports and get that first and priority.
Tondra Gregory And, and we, we had these two loves in life where, which is working with the professional athletes in the NFL. And we had started our marriage ministry, which was birthed out of our own struggle. We wanted to help other couples and we just felt like, oh, wow, this could bridge everything together in what we have learned. Because sports has taught us so much about marriage and marriage has taught us so much about sports. We were just like oh, let's put it together and put it in a book. And that way men, could be more engaged in a language. But it is a marriage book. But it is so much similarities between how, how athletes and sports, is so successful and elite and all of these things. And it can be applied to the marriage principles as well to help us win in our marriage. And so, yeah, so that's where the idea came from, is the two. Our two lanes, we kind of diverge those two paths together.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I. I absolutely love that because even when I think about the Bible and the way that Jesus taught, he taught in parables, which reread those stories now, and it may seem like, oh, this is a little unrelatable, like what is mean and, and, you know, some of those parables that he uses. But this is just a way of translating biblical truths from marriage into a way that we understand in a way that we speak in social currency. And I am so excited about that.
When we come back, we'll talk more about God's design for marriage
So we're coming up on our first break already. I cannot believe that I have so many more questions to ask you. But when we come back, we'll talk more about God's design for marriage and some of those sports analogies. I really want to break that down, like thinking about a playbook, thinking about team and communication. Because, George, I think you're so right. We can learn from that champion mindset and thinking it doesn't just happen. There's so much work behind the scenes. I know M. I have two boys at home who are teenage boys who are very into sports documentaries. So I've been very exposed to seeing some of the backstory, some of the hardships, some of the training that happens, the intentionality. And I look forward to talking about how we can afford apply that to marriage. Because a thriving marriage doesn't just happen. It is built one intentional choice at a time. And your first intentional choice could be buying the marriage game and putting your resources there to get you a plan to help you and your spouse strengthen your foundation, communicate with grace, and stay on the same team. So are you going to keep winging it? Are you going to have a game plan that leads to victory? More with George and Tondra Gregory when we come back.
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I Will Be Here by Steven Curtis Chapman I will be here. If in the. Dark we lose sight of love hold my hand and have no fear Cause. I. I will be here. I will be here when you feel like being quiet when you need to speak. Your mind I will listen and I.
Dr. Jessica Peck Will be here when the laughter turns to crying through the winning, losing and trying we'll be together Cause I will be here welcome back, friends. That's an oldie, but a goody. I will be here by Steven Curtis Chapman, how many of you had that song played at your wedding? I'm going to bet there's a lot of people out there who had that song at their wedding. Or it's a special song and it's about marriage. That's what we're talking about today with George and Tondra Gregory. We're talking about having a winning game plan because on the football field or whatever sports field that you are watching, as George has already shared with us, victory doesn't happen by accident. It takes vision. It takes teamwork. It takes assumption, solid game plan. And the same is true in your marriage. And that's where today's guests, George and Tondra Gregory step in. As NFL chaplains marriage coaches, they've spent years helping couples, whether newly engaged or decades in, discover how God's design for marriage can transform their relationship and their book, the Marriage Game Plan, a USA Today bestseller. By the way, Congratulations is filled with real life wisdom, action steps and a blueprint for navigating disagreements, growing in grace, staying on the same team through life's toughest place. So get ready to hear how you can strengthen your connection and thrive together both on and off the field. And George and Tondra already I'm so encouraged and I think just the fact that this book is a USA Today bestseller. It just says people are hungry for this kind of help. They, they are struggling. It is hard and I think especially in communities that are faith, it can be even harder. I remember one time my husband and I went to a, marriage retreat, and we went, there was another couple there from our church. And when we left to go have, they gave us some assignments, you know, to go and have alone time. We commented on how great everything seemed. But that following week they shared that they were filing for divorce. They had gone to this event as a last ditch effort to save their marriage and they felt like it didn't work and we had no clue. And I think that can be really hard. What do you see is those difficulties and just even opening up to say, yeah, I need help?
George Gregory Yeah. Well we, we often say don't die in a sea of lifeguards. Like there's so much help for you. Whether it's books like ours or whether there's conferences or, or mentors. And yet there's so many people out there, that don't want to cry out or don't want to raise their hand or draw attention to themselves when what's at stake is the legacy that you want to leave, for your kids or is at stake with a separation or maybe even a divorce. And so we like to say to get the help that you need. Right. And that's what we had to do. We had to get the help that we needed. You know, pros become pros not because of just their talent, but they have a coach, they have someone who's done it before who can give them expert advice and that can cheer them on, especially in tough times. And so I don't think, couples who try to do it on their own, I think what they're realizing or what we realize is that, that sometimes when we, we only try to do it the best way we can, that we often have this, this sort of, this, this hole of mistakes when we, when if we could get a coach, someone that could help us to overcome and to get through those tough seasons, I think that will help us out in the long run.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, I, I would just even add, sometimes people feel like, oh, you only go get help or marriage help when you are in a crisis or when you are at the end. we found that in our ministry as well. That's, that's why we wanted to start with pre marriage and help people. You know, we felt like God was saying let's be proactive and not reactive. I, I'm a licensed professional counselor, and I see it all the time. It' ditch effort. They either want the pastor or the therapist to say, oh, yeah, this is, yes, go ahead and divorce. This is just so bad. But my encouragement is for couples to be proactive, just always be engaged in learning about each other. We never outgrow learning about each other. We never outgrow working on our marriage or our relationship. It is an ongoing process. And. And we don't want to see you get to the crisis point. Just continue with the enrichment and the education and learning each other new tools, new skills, like, you know, just making sure you're constantly engaged. And for those couples who might be in a bad place, like, there is hope, like, you get to decide where you go from here. not your past, not your past mistake, not your present dark place that you're in. You get to decide, well, where do we want to go from here? And it doesn't have to be the end. It could be the beginning of a new start, a new slate. So I just want to encourage couples at both ends. Just make. Make working on your marriage just a part of your culture.
George Gregory Yeah, I had this one. One couple say to me, so why do we need a. Why do we need a plan? Why can't we just make up marriage as it comes along? They want to be spontaneous. but yet my dad told me that if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And that's just simple things, right? We. We understand planning for our future, whether it's finances or whether it's for education. But sometimes we neglect, to do what we need to do for what we call our home game. We're so key to win the away game with. With our careers or extracurricular activities. But the home game is the most important game.
I love that your journey has led you to become a licensed professional counselor
And that's what we have to invest in by getting a solid plan that will help us to be winners, not just on the outside, but in. In our marriage, especially the home game and tondra.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love that your journey has led you to become a licensed professional counselor. I believe that God has a sense of humor in. And every time I sit across the microphone and talk with people who have a message of hope to share, it usually comes from a place of brokenness, from a place of struggle, a place of pain. And God uses that for good. And it's so encouraging to me about God's character that he is a God who loves to redeem, to restore, to renew, to make things whole. And so to see that as part of your journey and part of the gifting that you bring to this, I think is just a beautiful compliment and a beautiful illustration of the strengths of your marriage. And George, you were just talking about the game plan and one of those elements is having a playbook. Now like I said, I live in a home filled with sports enthusiasts. I've watched a lot of sports movies and I know enough to know that the playbook is something really special. You see in movies where, you know, those coaches guard it with their life. There's something a little mystical about it. The players have to memorize the playbook. Everything is about the playbook. How do we translate that concept to making a playbook for our marriage?
George Gregory Yeah, well, really, you know, any, our, our training camp started a few weeks ago and the first thing that these new rookies get is they get a playbook. And the playbook is their bible. If they don't know the playbook, you can't practice. If you don't know, if you don't practice, you can't play in the game. And so it's essential for their success. But just like an athlete, we have a coach who gives us a playbook. Our coach is called God. The playbook is called the Bible. And sometimes I think again, coup as we try to make this up as we go along, but where you talked about the sports, the playbook being sort of mystical, we don't have that. God's given it to us. It's open for everybody. We just got to pick it up and read it and be courageous in order to run the plays that he's asked us to run. Right? Things like like having patience or kindness or gentleness or we get to the end of that. The, the fruits of the spirit. We talk about self control or long suffering, like who likes to suffer long? But in marriage sometimes you have to be willing to suffer through seasons of loss or suffer through seasons of challenge or pain. And yet some in, in our modern day context, sometimes we rather not go through those things. But that's why God gives us our playbook so that we can learn his plays. And when we run his plays, place our life, our marriage, our, the way we raise our kids, the way we interact with one another. We can become pros if we just run his plays that he's designed for us to run.
Tondra Gregory And I, I just always add, like God created marriage so he knows what's supposed to happen. He knows what the goal is. He knows what we're supposed to get out of it. And, and unless we know those Things, then we're, we're not getting the optimal out of it that God intended. It's kind of like our iPhones, right? Like, if we don't know what the creator had in mind for the iPhone, we might misuse it, or we might not benefit from all the things that that iPhone can do. And it's the same for marriage. So God created it, he's the creator of it, and we have to go back to him to say, oh, what is this? This. Why did you create this? What are we supposed to get out of it? What is the benefit? What is the. How is it supposed to work?
George Gregory You know, so I think for like in, a prime example is like when it comes down to sort of forgiven forgiveness, and we know in marriage there's going to be some things where you really have to say to your spouse that hurt me or, or that didn't fulfill my expectations. And we have to extend and also accept forgiveness. But how do we, how do we learn that in our society today, right, where it's so easy to eject from your marriage than it is to believe God could redeem? Where we look at God's player forgiveness, who ran the best play? I mean, Jesus is the goat, right? And so we, we should follow the goat. They say Lebron or Michael Jordan is the goat. No, Jesus is the goat. And when we look at what he did on the cross that he forgave us. So how many times have I sinned in comparison to my wife, sin against me? If I want God to forgive me, surely I can extend grace and forgiveness to my wife. That's a practical way to look at the playbook and run that play that God's asked us to run.
Dr. Jessica Peck Such great words of wisdom and sometimes so easy to say and so tough to do. And I think especially that piece that you're talking about, the forgiveness piece, George, that is. You know, when people ask me about my marriage, I say, this is the secret to marriage is learning how to forgive. Well, because you have such a front row seat to, to everybody's, to each other's weaknesses. You see each other at that point of need. And I think when you're talking about forgiveness, sometimes that's an easy place for you to feel like you're not on the same team and that you are, in fact against each other and that you're playing against each other. How do you see that teamwork piece coming? Saying that, reminding each other that you're not fighting against each other, that you're fighting for the same things that you're on the same team. Where does that come into play?
George Gregory Yeah. Well, you said a big word, fight. Right. You don't feel like you're on the same team when you're fighting. And by the way, we're pastors, so we don't call our fights fights. We call it intense fellowship.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love it.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'll take it.
George Gregory And, you know, listen, don't judge us either, by. By the way, because everyone has these little moments of intensity in their. In their marriage. And so. But when you're having those moments of intensity, you don't feel like you're on the same team. But yet that in our marriage, over the years, we've learned to take a pause or to make sure that each other knows through those moments that although we've said the wrong tone or maybe the wrong words, we interrupt each other often and just say, you're on this. We're on the same team. You're not my enemy. Right. And. And we get that. You're not my enemy. from. From, the Bible, by the way. Again, it's a playbook. So we. We learned that from Ephesians, chapter 6, where it says that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, which are, your wife or your spouse is the flesh and blood, but it says that we wrestle not against that. We wrestle against principalities and wickedness in high places. And so sometimes we have to realize is that your spouse is not your enemy. There are assignments that are meant to break you up, to tear you down, and to spit you out. And if we can overcome those by just saying, love, love, Tondra, you are not my enemy. We are on the same team. I think more marriages would make it.
More marriages will be successful if we build in one concept of being on the same team
More marriages will be successful if we could only build in that one concept of being on the same team.
Tondra Gregory Yeah. And being on the same team. I always say everyone has to give up something for the sake of unity. No one gets to have it their way. George always says, oh, if you want to have it your way, you got.
Dr. Jessica Peck To go Burger King.
Tondra Gregory That's their slogan. Okay, have it your way at Burger King. but giving up something, that's what sacrifice is. And it's dying to yourself. just like the Bible, when we become Christians, you have to die to yourself to be, you know, a. You know, to die to your flesh to become a Christian. I always joke, it's like, we got to die three deaths to become a Christian. When you get married, you die again. And when you become a parent, you die again. It's about, you know, that Constant sacrifice. Yeah, that constant sacrifice and laying your life down. And so sometimes when couples don't, they want to dig their heels in and they want to, have it their way. They want to be right. That keeps us from being team teammates, and it keeps that unity out of our marriage. And so both of us have to be willing to sacrifice. It takes humility to sacrifice. Right. We can't be prideful. All those things work against that. Teamwork work. So it is about the sacrifice of laying each other, laying down those things that prevent us from being unified and a team.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so true. And we're already coming up on our second break. This is going way too fast. I need more time so that I can get more wisdom. But when we come back, I want to talk about one of your chapters is called Tackling Tough Conversations, which I love the sports analogy. And I think this is where a lot of couples can really fall into a trap, because a lot of times it just starts over something small. You've got just some bickering and then maybe some unhealthy communication patterns that just turn into personal attacks and insults. And then before you know it, this communication has got you feeling like you're on different teams and you're fighting each other. So when we come back, I want to talk about that, how we do that, how we take the game plan of God's word, as you say, George and Tundra. How we can take. Take some practical strategies from a counseling perspective to have wise communication skills, some real skills that we can practice just like athletes practice on the field. And every winning team has a strategy, and so should every marriage. So we're talking today about the marriage game plan with George and Tondra Gregory, showing you how to follow God's design, tackle hard conversations, and build a. A love that lasts. So are you ready to stop reacting and start leading your relationship with purpose? We'll have more help and hope for you when we come back.
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Can't Steal My Joy by Josiah Queen ft. Brandon Lake In the Valley of the shadow I got a feeling it's the season that'll make me grow I'm still breathing I got praise in my lungs In a choir in my soul can't steal my joy can't steal my joy. What the world
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends, guests. Can't steal my joy by Josiah Queen. That's really what we're talking about today. Do you feel like your joy is being. Being stolen in your marriage? Well, if you do, you are not alone. But there is help and hope for you today. Our prescription for hope is to develop a winning game plan for marriage, because marriage is one of life's greatest gifts that God has given us. But too often, couples enter it without a plan on how to succeed. And so we're talking today to George and Tondra Gregory, a really convicting but encouraging conversation. They know what it takes to go the distance. For over 20 years, they have coached couples across the country. They serve as chaplains for the Los Angeles Chargers. They guide relationships in churches and communities and professional sports leagues. And today, they are here to help us. And in their book, the Marriage Game plan, they draw from faith, experience, and a coach's heart to give you the tools that you need to communicate well, to navigate conflict and build a marriage that. That thrive. So whether you're just starting out or you're looking to strengthen your bond, today's conversation is intended to equip you to be intentional, to be united, to be victorious in love. It's not built on luck. It is built on the game plan that God gave us. George, you already said that. That it's not. There's nothing mystical, there is nothing mysterious about it. That God has just given us a clear game plan. We just need some intentionality to follow it.
What do you see as the communication pitfalls couples face in marriage
So before the break, we were just talking about tackling toug conversations and tundra. I'd like to start with you here. What do you see as the communication pitfalls that we have, and what's the game plan to overcome that and to tackle tough conversations without it becoming m a lot? what is it? I can't think of the word. A landmine. A minefield. What? What is it? Danger. Landmine. Okay, there you go. Danger. Danger, danger. That's what I'm looking for.
Tondra Gregory Yes, yes, absolutely. I feel like couples may struggle to, create a safe space for each other, a safe space where they can be vulnerable and transparent. And the marriage relationship, because it requires such a deep vulnerability, it is the scariest relationship you would be a part of in the sense that what it requires for that level of intimacy can make you not trust each other. If you're not creating that safe space where that person feels like, I have to protect myself from you, I have to be defensive. So we want to make sure that we're creating a trusting, safe environment for each other. And that looks like in how we communicate. We need to communicate with honor and validating each other's experience and emotions. We don't want to be dismissive or attacking because those create defensiveness and people go into self preservation mode. If they feel like, you're not going to protect me, then I'm going to protect myself. And then it's every man for themselves, which creates a, disconnect. And communication is meant to connect us.
George Gregory Yeah, I think that there's so many couples out there that, man, we could get so much out of this conversation right here. Tips for tackling tough conversations. And some, some of that is, is you've got to have the tough conversation. Sometimes we, we try to be passive and we try to, you know, sort of kick the ball down the field for a later date. But yet sometimes you have to really just sit down and address those conversations. So over our course of our marriage, there have been moments that I've had to say to Tondra, hey, hey, Thursday, is it okay if we spent some time together and talk? And she would say, yeah. And I would say, hey, but, you know, I just, it might not be sort of a, tough. It's gonna be a tough conversation. That's what I'll say. Just to prepare her heart. Heart. Right. But that was my way of saying, hey, I've got something on my brain, but I don't want to sort of like throw it out there right now and just kind of like, boo. Like, like, no, address it right now. And so we prepare our hearts for that. And so if your listeners are out there, I'm thinking, hey, if we don't talk about the issue, it'll go away. Listen, it will not go away. Address the tough topics. Do it at the right time, do it with the right heart. We often tell, our players that when you're talking to your spouse, listen to their heart. Heart. Not just to respond to what they say. Right. We look at their mouths and we Want to respond, Let me get my point out because you said this, so let me tell you about this. But listen, try to listen to their heart. I try to always ask, so Tondra, how did that make you feel? Or what ways could I be a better husband? Or how could I listen, to what you say and sort of have a plan of, of of listening but also addressing what your heart issues are? I think if more people listen to their spouse's heart heart, they could then in turn try to be there for their spouse by the actions that they take after they listen to their heart.
Tondra Gregory Absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is fantastic advice. And looking at that and I think the converse side of that, of saying, hey, we need to have a conversation, but giving a heads up that it's going to be a tough conversation, you know, I think there can be some panic that ensues there, like, oh no, just tell me now, what is it? But there's also a piece in that a security, stability, saying, hey, we've got some issues to talk about but everything's okay and it's going to be okay. And it's all right that it waits for a couple of days because there's security in that, I think. And when you're looking at, you know, sometimes you can be each other's opponents. I mean, the truth is the world is throwing us plenty of opponents themselves. I mean, we are living in an over scheduled, over pressured, overstimulated world where we have so many things coming out at us as families. We're living at the speed of a smartphone. It's time. It's hard to find time to be together, especially if you're in that busy season of parenting or life transition. How do you handle some of the opponents that you might have some of those things that, those challenges. And what have you learned from professional athletes? How do we see that in the book and how you, how you manage those obstacles or challenges that may come your way?
Tondra Gregory Yeah. So the schedule is never going to make time for you to do the things that you desire, to do or whatever your, your priorities are. George used to say all the time we have to manage our schedule and not our let allow our schedules to manage us. So it's about carving out that time. These appointments that we have with each other to go on date night or to have intimate conversations or connection conversations with our spouse or, and those type of conversations with our kids, we have to get ahead of the schedule. We have to, to put it on our schedule and be just as faithful to those appointments as we are those other appointments that we have on our schedule. So it is about just carving out that time so, so that you can make sure that you are making the decisions and honoring the things that you got into this for. Like, I find that sometimes we get things out of order where we start to like we get a job or we have two careers because we want to provide a great life for our, our family. But then it's like the career overshadows the family. The very reason that you did all this was for your family, but then you're losing your family in the process. We've got things backwards, then we've got things out of order and we have to make sure we rearrange it. God will honor that. He will honor that, that sacrifice. If we put God's things as a priority and what he's called us to steward first and foremost, he will take care of the rest. He will provide. He will give you favor in your career, in your hobbies and all those things.
George Gregory Yeah, I think of the concept that we have in the book called Victory Mondays, right, Where you can schedule a victory Monday and, and if you don't know what that is, victory, Mondays is where is is. So we played yesterday, we won the game. Coach says, hey, Victory Mondays, that means you get the day off. But what victory how Victory Mondays start. Is it start Sunday where you are going around the locker room and you're giving high five to your players saying, I saw you, thank you for that hit. Thank you for being all in in marriage. If we had some scheduled time during the week where we high fived each other and said, wow, I saw you did a good job on that. Or when you affirm their heart or affirm what they do and what, how that makes you feel. Or even times of celebration, right. Where we say, wow, I saw that and now, hey, give me a kiss or let's go to dinner. Dinner. I think when we build margin in our schedule to affirm, acknowledge and celebrate each other as opposed to becoming pros. Some of us, we are pros at pointing out everything our spouse does wrong. And we seldom point out what they do right. So Victory Mondays gives us a rhythm in our schedule where we are high fiving each other and we are partying and saying, man, ah, thank you for being in my life because we are truly better together. Together.
Dr. Jessica Peck And that's just one example of the many practical tools. I think you're right, George. Especially this will really appeal to men who want to lead their families, who want to lead in their Marriages. But sometimes it can just feel hard because you just want to fix it. You know, that's what, a lot of men want to do. I hate to generalize, but I know my, that's what my husband has shared with me is that they just want to fix it. And so having a game plan to be successful, to look for those victories, I think is really impactful.
What have you learned about marriage from your role as NFL chaplains
And you know, it's just so interesting to me with you both being the chaplains at, for an NFL team, a, ah, football team. Because I think the NFL must recognize the impact that marriage has in every area of your life. It affects your, your spirit, it affects your soul, affects your mind, it affects your body. What have you seen as, as what have you learned from your experience? Because you kind of look at people, like that would be in the NFL and think, oh, well, sure, clearly they don't have any problems. Right. What have you learned about marriage from your role as chaplains in the, NFL?
George Gregory Well, man, so what one is, is that there's always things that you have to overcome. Right? Like you, you talked about, like, facing your opponents. Like every time you see, whether it's basketball, baseball or football, you have to come out of that tunnel and a, face your opponent. That's somebody who wants to beat you down or they want to win the championship and they're going to do whatever it take you not to win. And so you have to, as a couple, compared to sports teams, you have to have that same, mentality that whatever comes out of these gates, we are going to win together. I think it was gla, Maximus, Maximus and Gladiator. He says whatever comes out of this gate, we've got a better chance of survival if we stay together. And that's one of the things that we teach is, is is staying together and working through those tough issues. Teams often have problems, but they can overcome it when they learn to play better together. And that's all about building a good team culture. That's all about honoring one another. And it's also about, about really knowing that there are a lot of differences on that team and figuring out how best to bring out those differences so that we can win together.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, yeah, I would say definitely in, in, in. In a professional sports type of environment, being on that same page about, you know, like, football is king in the NFL. Right. And that's something these couples have to agree to let football be this big thing, a big part of their relationship. So being on the same page and in agreement with that, there's so much power in agreement. it protects against those times where we want to resist, resent. It protects against bitterness and resentment when it's okay, we've agreed this is what we want to do as a couple. So we're on the same page and we're moving in the same direction. And you can't assume that those are conversations you definitely have to have. you have to have that agreement and make sure that you're clear on the agreement of what that looks like. And both of you be on. Bought in on that and both make sacrifices, for that to happen. So. And I think we do that in all couples have to make those decisions and those agreements about whatever they're doing in their lives.
George Gregory Well, Dr. Jessica, another thing is that we, we. We understand in sports that the highs won't last always. Right there. There's going to be some valley moments. Right. And we also understand that careers end and there might be some of your listeners who. They're going through a transitionary period. And it's tough. Right? Right. Like when. When our players retire, sometimes it's very tough for them. Why? It's because life changes. The money's not there as much as it was, or the ability to do certain things. But if life is built off just the highs, then we're in trouble. Right. We've got to learn that consistency through building your friendship in marriage, consistency of growing your love for each other and evolving over time mind and the mentality that whatever comes out of these gates, we can do it together. That's about doing it together versus it's all about what I get out of it. My happiness, my. My ups and. And just winning. But there's moments that you just got to be cons. You just got to be sort of consistent at winning in the home game. And that's what we'd like to say.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's such a great advice, being consistent and then having agreement. I can see that for families who are in professional sports, but also families who are in the military, families who are caring for a family member with a chronic illness, something that is going to consume a lot of their time, and being intentional about being in agreement with that, but having a game plan. And George, you mentioned Gladiator. And one of the quotes, actually, that my husband and I say a lot from Gladiator is when things seem really chaotic, when maybe, you know, the. There's some, some intense fellowship or the kids are, you know, just things are off kilter. We look at each other and say, are you not entertain contained. Yeah, but listen, I've been so grateful, so encouraged by this conversation. And I know that no couple stepping onto the field of marriage hopes to lose. But without a plan, it is easy to drift apart. So I hope they will get your book, George and Tondra Gregory, the Marriage Game Plan. It's your biblically based practical guide to growing strong, stronger together no matter what season you're in, in season or off. So here's the question. Are you willing to put in the work to become the couple that God designed you to be? So grab your copy of the Marriage Game Plan. Start building your legacy of love today. Start making a path to victory. And as you do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you. And I'll see you right here next time.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, today I am convinced that we have a very powerful message to deliver to you. So if you are married, if you want to be married, we were talking about marriage at all, if marriage impacts your daily life at all, then listen in because I have a question for you. What if your marriage had a game plan as strong as a championship teams playbook? Our guests today, George and Tondra Gregory, have been on the front lines of both faith and football, coaching couples toward victory in love. I love this. For more than two decades, they are marriage coaches, they are NFL chaplains. They have helped everyone from everyday couples to professional athletes strengthen their relationships, overcome obstacles, and win the home game. And their book, the Marriage Game Plan, offers biblically grounded practical strategies so you and your spouse can stop just playing the game and start playing to win. So today we're going to dive in. How to build unity, how to tackle tough conversations and create a winning plan for your marriage, no matter what stage, season of life that you are in. God designed marriage to be a winning team. So are you running his plays? Are you making it up as you go? That is the question we're going to dive into. And George and Tondra, so very grateful to have you here on the show today.
Tondra Gregory Thank you so much.
George Gregory Awesome.
Tondra Gregory This is great.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's going to be a great conversation. And you know, my husband believes that there is no problem on this earth that can't be solved with faith and a sports analogy. So I feel he is going to love this. Anytime he coaches our kids, there's going to be a story about a blind father watching his son play football in heaven. It's a long story, but there's going to be some sort of sports analogy. And you know, I look back at my husband and I and, we've been married for almost 27 years and we've definitely had our ups and downs. We came from very, very different families. My husband came from a very fiery Italian family who, you know, argues with their hands, has very intense fellowship, likes to, you know, like, escalate the, the verbal dialogue. I came from a very passive aggressive family. We're like, yeah, we're going to talk about it, but behind your back and, you know, not with each other, but it, it has been tough. It really has been tough. And I tell my kids all the time, marriage is tough. But I hope that you see your dad and I just crawling back toward the cross seeking the grace of God. And you have been very open in sharing your own story.
Your journey in marriage ministry began with your own marriage
So let's start with that and talk about your own story. Story. You've been marriage coaches, but your journey in marriage ministry began with your own marriage. So I would love to hear your own story about that.
Tondra Gregory Yes. Yeah.
George Gregory Yeah. Well, we, we often say that marriage is a team sport. Right. And it can get messy. It's rewarding, but it can get messy. And so we found ourselves, meeting each other in college. we Met in Biology 101 and first day of classes in college. And Tondra, she was so good looking that I said, man, I, I think I'll follow her around. And and so we found ourselves dating. And many years later we found ourselves, dating too much. And so we found ourselves pregnant and with a kid on the way. And we didn't quite know what to do, but we were prepared to take care of our kid. And so we chose to, to be married. We chose to get married and we chose to, to try to do it God's way, you know? You know, and so I think, yeah.
Tondra Gregory And once, and once the dust settled on that decision and we were just left with, okay, now what do we do? What, how do you be married? And just like you and your husband, we, we found that we were so different in how we were raised. Which you, which we knew that, but you just don't know how that background is going to come into play play when it's time to do life together as a husband and a wife. And so George came from a two parent home, a Christian home. Traditionally like the dad was the leader of the home and his mom was more, you know, submissive to, to that leadership. I came from a single parent home where my mom was the dominant person and she was, I say she brought home the bacon and fried it up in the pan. Right. And so those things, you think, okay, we know that about each other, but you don't know like the power dynamic that it will bring in this unconscious way.
George Gregory So I'm sure your listeners could tell already like we, who is in charge. Right. That was the big question of, you know, I thought I was in charge, she thought she was in charge. And there ensued a power struggle from the very beginning without relating to our differences.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, yeah. And we didn't know this was going on, we just were just responding and reacting to each other. And so that's why getting that game plan helped us figure out, oh, it's our backgrounds clashing. We have to actually get a plan about how to come become one.
You got married very quickly and had to figure those things out quickly
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, this is so real because you just said, you know, these things kind of inherently, you know that you're different, but you don't really know how that's going to work out in everyday life until you start and you've been transparent and sharing your stories. I mean, you got married very quickly and had to figure those things out quickly. And I can relate with that power struggle because I used to make a joke saying, yeah, my husband wears the pants. I just tell him which pair. That's how this works, which pair to put on in the morning. But you know, you've got to figure out all of those power dynamics, those communication dynamics, and it can be really, really hard. And when you look at some of the statistics that you provide, in the book about marriage, which we all inherently know, it's pretty bleak and most marriages don't make it. I mean, that's just the honest truth. When we look at E, even the marriages that say they don't end in divorce, but they just end in a mutual pact of misery, like, all right, we're not going to divorce, but we're just going to stay together miserable, whether that's for the kids or whatever other reason. How did you come through that place where it was hard, it was difficult, and you've made it out on the other side and now this is your ministry.
George Gregory Yeah. Well, I think, you know, mindset is, is key, right? Which is sports related mindset, is key because you have to determine that you are going to win regardless of where you are in that tough season. Right. So when we first got to the LA Chargers, our first four games, we were 0 and 4. For all your listeners, that's not a good thing. And yet we knew that the season was long. In fact, our coach, coach Anthony Lynn said, hey, we're only 0 and 4 in the first quarter. We got three more quarters to go. And your listeners are, there may be a few of your listeners that might be in a tough season or feel, like I'm in a losing season, don't give up. Like that's what we had to do is we had to have that mindset that we might not be winning right now, but things are going to turn, the season is going to change. And we were determined that we were going to get this right through self study or going through, retreats or getaways, or really asking mentors to really look at our life and tell us what we were doing. Right. We needed a coach and we started asking each other. Sorry. We started asking mentors to help us, help us to win because we didn't know what we were doing, but we tried to get the most help that we could.
Tondra Gregory Yeah. And, and marriage is one of the most important institutions that you'll be a part of. It's. It lives beyond you. And we, you know, we know that in anything that we want to be successful at, like in our careers or our sport or our academics, you know, we know you have to put that level of work, mentorship, coaching, reading seminars, workshops, you know, we have that mindset for those outside things. But sometimes we don't realize that marriage requires no less effort if you want to be successful at it. It's not something you just know just because you love each other, just because you said, I do. It's something you learn how to do and you have to apply yourself to, to get out of that dark place. And that's how. And that's exactly. We started reading books and going to conferences. We went to one conference session seven years, seven consecutive years in a row, and there was no new content. It was the same content. We could complete their sentences before they finished. And it was the discipline of us saying, we're going to keep our marriage, on the forefront as a priority, and we're going to go and make it and learn at one new thing each year and apply one new thing each year, and slowly just started getting our way out of that dark place.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, that's really convicting to think about, because when you think about our, the other parts of our lives, I think about, you know, what people would say is their priority. And people, most people who are married are going to say, my marriage, my family, is a priority. But I feel like the real accountability partners in that are your credit card statement and your calendar. Where are you investing your time and resources in that? And even in going to a marriage conference, you paid money to go. You probably paid for a babysitter or a hotel to travel or. And you used your time to do that. And I think about all of the other things that we invest in as married couples. You may have a financial planner or your kids. You know, you may have an academic coach or a pitching coach or whatever sports that they're in. And you think about all of those things that you invest in for Your financial health for your kids, academic health, for their athletic health. But really what are you investing in your marriage? And I think a lot of times when you might be in that place of misery and marriage, because sometimes that can happen where you're just feel like you're in a rut and you are having repeated conflict, I think it's really convicting to look around and see what are you investing in. And one of the things that I'm really grateful for, you guys is that you've created a resource that couples can invest in. And even better, it's a sports analogy. Sports is king in America. Let's just be real. So these analogies are so relatable. How did you think of the idea to write the marriage game plan and lay out your vision for what you would expect couples to experience as they go through this resource together?
George Gregory Yeah, well, you know, working with NFL teams for the past 16 years, just really gave us insight on what pros do and how they, you know, try to be better or try to get better. They try to improve. And, and, and when you ask them questions about how do you get on that elite level, they have a litany of things that they, they do, whether it's coaches or nutrition or, or, or, or just, you know, giving up their Saturdays or their weekends to go and play, play sports in that discipline. And what we learned was, is that pros don't show up and just say they want to win. Right? A championship game. They have to start with the beginning in mind. That's the preseason. That's how they interface with their teammates. And so we, we looked at this concept especially, especially for men, right? We know that most ladies, they're going to buy the books, they're going to sign us up for conferences. The men, we just kind of sit back. But we wrote this book with, in mind, with men in mind, because we know that sometimes men, we are a little hesitant to sort of, focus on that. And so with, with when, when it comes to men, we, we, we try to write this curriculum so that they would understand the language of sports and get that first and priority.
Tondra Gregory And, and we, we had these two loves in life where, which is working with the professional athletes in the NFL. And we had started our marriage ministry, which was birthed out of our own struggle. We wanted to help other couples and we just felt like, oh, wow, this could bridge everything together in what we have learned. Because sports has taught us so much about marriage and marriage has taught us so much about sports. We were just like oh, let's put it together and put it in a book. And that way men, could be more engaged in a language. But it is a marriage book. But it is so much similarities between how, how athletes and sports, is so successful and elite and all of these things. And it can be applied to the marriage principles as well to help us win in our marriage. And so, yeah, so that's where the idea came from, is the two. Our two lanes, we kind of diverge those two paths together.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I. I absolutely love that because even when I think about the Bible and the way that Jesus taught, he taught in parables, which reread those stories now, and it may seem like, oh, this is a little unrelatable, like what is mean and, and, you know, some of those parables that he uses. But this is just a way of translating biblical truths from marriage into a way that we understand in a way that we speak in social currency. And I am so excited about that.
When we come back, we'll talk more about God's design for marriage
So we're coming up on our first break already. I cannot believe that I have so many more questions to ask you. But when we come back, we'll talk more about God's design for marriage and some of those sports analogies. I really want to break that down, like thinking about a playbook, thinking about team and communication. Because, George, I think you're so right. We can learn from that champion mindset and thinking it doesn't just happen. There's so much work behind the scenes. I know M. I have two boys at home who are teenage boys who are very into sports documentaries. So I've been very exposed to seeing some of the backstory, some of the hardships, some of the training that happens, the intentionality. And I look forward to talking about how we can afford apply that to marriage. Because a thriving marriage doesn't just happen. It is built one intentional choice at a time. And your first intentional choice could be buying the marriage game and putting your resources there to get you a plan to help you and your spouse strengthen your foundation, communicate with grace, and stay on the same team. So are you going to keep winging it? Are you going to have a game plan that leads to victory? More with George and Tondra Gregory when we come back.
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I Will Be Here by Steven Curtis Chapman I will be here. If in the. Dark we lose sight of love hold my hand and have no fear Cause. I. I will be here. I will be here when you feel like being quiet when you need to speak. Your mind I will listen and I.
Dr. Jessica Peck Will be here when the laughter turns to crying through the winning, losing and trying we'll be together Cause I will be here welcome back, friends. That's an oldie, but a goody. I will be here by Steven Curtis Chapman, how many of you had that song played at your wedding? I'm going to bet there's a lot of people out there who had that song at their wedding. Or it's a special song and it's about marriage. That's what we're talking about today with George and Tondra Gregory. We're talking about having a winning game plan because on the football field or whatever sports field that you are watching, as George has already shared with us, victory doesn't happen by accident. It takes vision. It takes teamwork. It takes assumption, solid game plan. And the same is true in your marriage. And that's where today's guests, George and Tondra Gregory step in. As NFL chaplains marriage coaches, they've spent years helping couples, whether newly engaged or decades in, discover how God's design for marriage can transform their relationship and their book, the Marriage Game Plan, a USA Today bestseller. By the way, Congratulations is filled with real life wisdom, action steps and a blueprint for navigating disagreements, growing in grace, staying on the same team through life's toughest place. So get ready to hear how you can strengthen your connection and thrive together both on and off the field. And George and Tondra already I'm so encouraged and I think just the fact that this book is a USA Today bestseller. It just says people are hungry for this kind of help. They, they are struggling. It is hard and I think especially in communities that are faith, it can be even harder. I remember one time my husband and I went to a, marriage retreat, and we went, there was another couple there from our church. And when we left to go have, they gave us some assignments, you know, to go and have alone time. We commented on how great everything seemed. But that following week they shared that they were filing for divorce. They had gone to this event as a last ditch effort to save their marriage and they felt like it didn't work and we had no clue. And I think that can be really hard. What do you see is those difficulties and just even opening up to say, yeah, I need help?
George Gregory Yeah. Well we, we often say don't die in a sea of lifeguards. Like there's so much help for you. Whether it's books like ours or whether there's conferences or, or mentors. And yet there's so many people out there, that don't want to cry out or don't want to raise their hand or draw attention to themselves when what's at stake is the legacy that you want to leave, for your kids or is at stake with a separation or maybe even a divorce. And so we like to say to get the help that you need. Right. And that's what we had to do. We had to get the help that we needed. You know, pros become pros not because of just their talent, but they have a coach, they have someone who's done it before who can give them expert advice and that can cheer them on, especially in tough times. And so I don't think, couples who try to do it on their own, I think what they're realizing or what we realize is that, that sometimes when we, we only try to do it the best way we can, that we often have this, this sort of, this, this hole of mistakes when we, when if we could get a coach, someone that could help us to overcome and to get through those tough seasons, I think that will help us out in the long run.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, I, I would just even add, sometimes people feel like, oh, you only go get help or marriage help when you are in a crisis or when you are at the end. we found that in our ministry as well. That's, that's why we wanted to start with pre marriage and help people. You know, we felt like God was saying let's be proactive and not reactive. I, I'm a licensed professional counselor, and I see it all the time. It' ditch effort. They either want the pastor or the therapist to say, oh, yeah, this is, yes, go ahead and divorce. This is just so bad. But my encouragement is for couples to be proactive, just always be engaged in learning about each other. We never outgrow learning about each other. We never outgrow working on our marriage or our relationship. It is an ongoing process. And. And we don't want to see you get to the crisis point. Just continue with the enrichment and the education and learning each other new tools, new skills, like, you know, just making sure you're constantly engaged. And for those couples who might be in a bad place, like, there is hope, like, you get to decide where you go from here. not your past, not your past mistake, not your present dark place that you're in. You get to decide, well, where do we want to go from here? And it doesn't have to be the end. It could be the beginning of a new start, a new slate. So I just want to encourage couples at both ends. Just make. Make working on your marriage just a part of your culture.
George Gregory Yeah, I had this one. One couple say to me, so why do we need a. Why do we need a plan? Why can't we just make up marriage as it comes along? They want to be spontaneous. but yet my dad told me that if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And that's just simple things, right? We. We understand planning for our future, whether it's finances or whether it's for education. But sometimes we neglect, to do what we need to do for what we call our home game. We're so key to win the away game with. With our careers or extracurricular activities. But the home game is the most important game.
I love that your journey has led you to become a licensed professional counselor
And that's what we have to invest in by getting a solid plan that will help us to be winners, not just on the outside, but in. In our marriage, especially the home game and tondra.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love that your journey has led you to become a licensed professional counselor. I believe that God has a sense of humor in. And every time I sit across the microphone and talk with people who have a message of hope to share, it usually comes from a place of brokenness, from a place of struggle, a place of pain. And God uses that for good. And it's so encouraging to me about God's character that he is a God who loves to redeem, to restore, to renew, to make things whole. And so to see that as part of your journey and part of the gifting that you bring to this, I think is just a beautiful compliment and a beautiful illustration of the strengths of your marriage. And George, you were just talking about the game plan and one of those elements is having a playbook. Now like I said, I live in a home filled with sports enthusiasts. I've watched a lot of sports movies and I know enough to know that the playbook is something really special. You see in movies where, you know, those coaches guard it with their life. There's something a little mystical about it. The players have to memorize the playbook. Everything is about the playbook. How do we translate that concept to making a playbook for our marriage?
George Gregory Yeah, well, really, you know, any, our, our training camp started a few weeks ago and the first thing that these new rookies get is they get a playbook. And the playbook is their bible. If they don't know the playbook, you can't practice. If you don't know, if you don't practice, you can't play in the game. And so it's essential for their success. But just like an athlete, we have a coach who gives us a playbook. Our coach is called God. The playbook is called the Bible. And sometimes I think again, coup as we try to make this up as we go along, but where you talked about the sports, the playbook being sort of mystical, we don't have that. God's given it to us. It's open for everybody. We just got to pick it up and read it and be courageous in order to run the plays that he's asked us to run. Right? Things like like having patience or kindness or gentleness or we get to the end of that. The, the fruits of the spirit. We talk about self control or long suffering, like who likes to suffer long? But in marriage sometimes you have to be willing to suffer through seasons of loss or suffer through seasons of challenge or pain. And yet some in, in our modern day context, sometimes we rather not go through those things. But that's why God gives us our playbook so that we can learn his plays. And when we run his plays, place our life, our marriage, our, the way we raise our kids, the way we interact with one another. We can become pros if we just run his plays that he's designed for us to run.
Tondra Gregory And I, I just always add, like God created marriage so he knows what's supposed to happen. He knows what the goal is. He knows what we're supposed to get out of it. And, and unless we know those Things, then we're, we're not getting the optimal out of it that God intended. It's kind of like our iPhones, right? Like, if we don't know what the creator had in mind for the iPhone, we might misuse it, or we might not benefit from all the things that that iPhone can do. And it's the same for marriage. So God created it, he's the creator of it, and we have to go back to him to say, oh, what is this? This. Why did you create this? What are we supposed to get out of it? What is the benefit? What is the. How is it supposed to work?
George Gregory You know, so I think for like in, a prime example is like when it comes down to sort of forgiven forgiveness, and we know in marriage there's going to be some things where you really have to say to your spouse that hurt me or, or that didn't fulfill my expectations. And we have to extend and also accept forgiveness. But how do we, how do we learn that in our society today, right, where it's so easy to eject from your marriage than it is to believe God could redeem? Where we look at God's player forgiveness, who ran the best play? I mean, Jesus is the goat, right? And so we, we should follow the goat. They say Lebron or Michael Jordan is the goat. No, Jesus is the goat. And when we look at what he did on the cross that he forgave us. So how many times have I sinned in comparison to my wife, sin against me? If I want God to forgive me, surely I can extend grace and forgiveness to my wife. That's a practical way to look at the playbook and run that play that God's asked us to run.
Dr. Jessica Peck Such great words of wisdom and sometimes so easy to say and so tough to do. And I think especially that piece that you're talking about, the forgiveness piece, George, that is. You know, when people ask me about my marriage, I say, this is the secret to marriage is learning how to forgive. Well, because you have such a front row seat to, to everybody's, to each other's weaknesses. You see each other at that point of need. And I think when you're talking about forgiveness, sometimes that's an easy place for you to feel like you're not on the same team and that you are, in fact against each other and that you're playing against each other. How do you see that teamwork piece coming? Saying that, reminding each other that you're not fighting against each other, that you're fighting for the same things that you're on the same team. Where does that come into play?
George Gregory Yeah. Well, you said a big word, fight. Right. You don't feel like you're on the same team when you're fighting. And by the way, we're pastors, so we don't call our fights fights. We call it intense fellowship.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love it.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'll take it.
George Gregory And, you know, listen, don't judge us either, by. By the way, because everyone has these little moments of intensity in their. In their marriage. And so. But when you're having those moments of intensity, you don't feel like you're on the same team. But yet that in our marriage, over the years, we've learned to take a pause or to make sure that each other knows through those moments that although we've said the wrong tone or maybe the wrong words, we interrupt each other often and just say, you're on this. We're on the same team. You're not my enemy. Right. And. And we get that. You're not my enemy. from. From, the Bible, by the way. Again, it's a playbook. So we. We learned that from Ephesians, chapter 6, where it says that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, which are, your wife or your spouse is the flesh and blood, but it says that we wrestle not against that. We wrestle against principalities and wickedness in high places. And so sometimes we have to realize is that your spouse is not your enemy. There are assignments that are meant to break you up, to tear you down, and to spit you out. And if we can overcome those by just saying, love, love, Tondra, you are not my enemy. We are on the same team. I think more marriages would make it.
More marriages will be successful if we build in one concept of being on the same team
More marriages will be successful if we could only build in that one concept of being on the same team.
Tondra Gregory Yeah. And being on the same team. I always say everyone has to give up something for the sake of unity. No one gets to have it their way. George always says, oh, if you want to have it your way, you got.
Dr. Jessica Peck To go Burger King.
Tondra Gregory That's their slogan. Okay, have it your way at Burger King. but giving up something, that's what sacrifice is. And it's dying to yourself. just like the Bible, when we become Christians, you have to die to yourself to be, you know, a. You know, to die to your flesh to become a Christian. I always joke, it's like, we got to die three deaths to become a Christian. When you get married, you die again. And when you become a parent, you die again. It's about, you know, that Constant sacrifice. Yeah, that constant sacrifice and laying your life down. And so sometimes when couples don't, they want to dig their heels in and they want to, have it their way. They want to be right. That keeps us from being team teammates, and it keeps that unity out of our marriage. And so both of us have to be willing to sacrifice. It takes humility to sacrifice. Right. We can't be prideful. All those things work against that. Teamwork work. So it is about the sacrifice of laying each other, laying down those things that prevent us from being unified and a team.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so true. And we're already coming up on our second break. This is going way too fast. I need more time so that I can get more wisdom. But when we come back, I want to talk about one of your chapters is called Tackling Tough Conversations, which I love the sports analogy. And I think this is where a lot of couples can really fall into a trap, because a lot of times it just starts over something small. You've got just some bickering and then maybe some unhealthy communication patterns that just turn into personal attacks and insults. And then before you know it, this communication has got you feeling like you're on different teams and you're fighting each other. So when we come back, I want to talk about that, how we do that, how we take the game plan of God's word, as you say, George and Tundra. How we can take. Take some practical strategies from a counseling perspective to have wise communication skills, some real skills that we can practice just like athletes practice on the field. And every winning team has a strategy, and so should every marriage. So we're talking today about the marriage game plan with George and Tondra Gregory, showing you how to follow God's design, tackle hard conversations, and build a. A love that lasts. So are you ready to stop reacting and start leading your relationship with purpose? We'll have more help and hope for you when we come back.
Abraham Hamilton III The American Family Association's mission is to inform, equip, and activate individuals to strengthen. The moral foundations of our culture. Our goal is to be a leading organization and biblical worldview training for cultural transformation. We stand on the biblical truth that all human beings, including the unborn, are created in the image of God and are endowed by him with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Thank you for standing with the American Family Association. When you hear this, this is American Family News. You know, what follows is the truth. Your news from a Christian perspective. Hundreds of, teachers are going to have to walk into that school building. And they are forced to swallow political. Ideology that in many cases violates their very faith and conscience. If you miss it at the top of the hour, American Family News podcasts are available at afn.net and sign up for our daily news brief at afn.net.
Can't Steal My Joy by Josiah Queen ft. Brandon Lake In the Valley of the shadow I got a feeling it's the season that'll make me grow I'm still breathing I got praise in my lungs In a choir in my soul can't steal my joy can't steal my joy. What the world
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends, guests. Can't steal my joy by Josiah Queen. That's really what we're talking about today. Do you feel like your joy is being. Being stolen in your marriage? Well, if you do, you are not alone. But there is help and hope for you today. Our prescription for hope is to develop a winning game plan for marriage, because marriage is one of life's greatest gifts that God has given us. But too often, couples enter it without a plan on how to succeed. And so we're talking today to George and Tondra Gregory, a really convicting but encouraging conversation. They know what it takes to go the distance. For over 20 years, they have coached couples across the country. They serve as chaplains for the Los Angeles Chargers. They guide relationships in churches and communities and professional sports leagues. And today, they are here to help us. And in their book, the Marriage Game plan, they draw from faith, experience, and a coach's heart to give you the tools that you need to communicate well, to navigate conflict and build a marriage that. That thrive. So whether you're just starting out or you're looking to strengthen your bond, today's conversation is intended to equip you to be intentional, to be united, to be victorious in love. It's not built on luck. It is built on the game plan that God gave us. George, you already said that. That it's not. There's nothing mystical, there is nothing mysterious about it. That God has just given us a clear game plan. We just need some intentionality to follow it.
What do you see as the communication pitfalls couples face in marriage
So before the break, we were just talking about tackling toug conversations and tundra. I'd like to start with you here. What do you see as the communication pitfalls that we have, and what's the game plan to overcome that and to tackle tough conversations without it becoming m a lot? what is it? I can't think of the word. A landmine. A minefield. What? What is it? Danger. Landmine. Okay, there you go. Danger. Danger, danger. That's what I'm looking for.
Tondra Gregory Yes, yes, absolutely. I feel like couples may struggle to, create a safe space for each other, a safe space where they can be vulnerable and transparent. And the marriage relationship, because it requires such a deep vulnerability, it is the scariest relationship you would be a part of in the sense that what it requires for that level of intimacy can make you not trust each other. If you're not creating that safe space where that person feels like, I have to protect myself from you, I have to be defensive. So we want to make sure that we're creating a trusting, safe environment for each other. And that looks like in how we communicate. We need to communicate with honor and validating each other's experience and emotions. We don't want to be dismissive or attacking because those create defensiveness and people go into self preservation mode. If they feel like, you're not going to protect me, then I'm going to protect myself. And then it's every man for themselves, which creates a, disconnect. And communication is meant to connect us.
George Gregory Yeah, I think that there's so many couples out there that, man, we could get so much out of this conversation right here. Tips for tackling tough conversations. And some, some of that is, is you've got to have the tough conversation. Sometimes we, we try to be passive and we try to, you know, sort of kick the ball down the field for a later date. But yet sometimes you have to really just sit down and address those conversations. So over our course of our marriage, there have been moments that I've had to say to Tondra, hey, hey, Thursday, is it okay if we spent some time together and talk? And she would say, yeah. And I would say, hey, but, you know, I just, it might not be sort of a, tough. It's gonna be a tough conversation. That's what I'll say. Just to prepare her heart. Heart. Right. But that was my way of saying, hey, I've got something on my brain, but I don't want to sort of like throw it out there right now and just kind of like, boo. Like, like, no, address it right now. And so we prepare our hearts for that. And so if your listeners are out there, I'm thinking, hey, if we don't talk about the issue, it'll go away. Listen, it will not go away. Address the tough topics. Do it at the right time, do it with the right heart. We often tell, our players that when you're talking to your spouse, listen to their heart. Heart. Not just to respond to what they say. Right. We look at their mouths and we Want to respond, Let me get my point out because you said this, so let me tell you about this. But listen, try to listen to their heart. I try to always ask, so Tondra, how did that make you feel? Or what ways could I be a better husband? Or how could I listen, to what you say and sort of have a plan of, of of listening but also addressing what your heart issues are? I think if more people listen to their spouse's heart heart, they could then in turn try to be there for their spouse by the actions that they take after they listen to their heart.
Tondra Gregory Absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is fantastic advice. And looking at that and I think the converse side of that, of saying, hey, we need to have a conversation, but giving a heads up that it's going to be a tough conversation, you know, I think there can be some panic that ensues there, like, oh no, just tell me now, what is it? But there's also a piece in that a security, stability, saying, hey, we've got some issues to talk about but everything's okay and it's going to be okay. And it's all right that it waits for a couple of days because there's security in that, I think. And when you're looking at, you know, sometimes you can be each other's opponents. I mean, the truth is the world is throwing us plenty of opponents themselves. I mean, we are living in an over scheduled, over pressured, overstimulated world where we have so many things coming out at us as families. We're living at the speed of a smartphone. It's time. It's hard to find time to be together, especially if you're in that busy season of parenting or life transition. How do you handle some of the opponents that you might have some of those things that, those challenges. And what have you learned from professional athletes? How do we see that in the book and how you, how you manage those obstacles or challenges that may come your way?
Tondra Gregory Yeah. So the schedule is never going to make time for you to do the things that you desire, to do or whatever your, your priorities are. George used to say all the time we have to manage our schedule and not our let allow our schedules to manage us. So it's about carving out that time. These appointments that we have with each other to go on date night or to have intimate conversations or connection conversations with our spouse or, and those type of conversations with our kids, we have to get ahead of the schedule. We have to, to put it on our schedule and be just as faithful to those appointments as we are those other appointments that we have on our schedule. So it is about just carving out that time so, so that you can make sure that you are making the decisions and honoring the things that you got into this for. Like, I find that sometimes we get things out of order where we start to like we get a job or we have two careers because we want to provide a great life for our, our family. But then it's like the career overshadows the family. The very reason that you did all this was for your family, but then you're losing your family in the process. We've got things backwards, then we've got things out of order and we have to make sure we rearrange it. God will honor that. He will honor that, that sacrifice. If we put God's things as a priority and what he's called us to steward first and foremost, he will take care of the rest. He will provide. He will give you favor in your career, in your hobbies and all those things.
George Gregory Yeah, I think of the concept that we have in the book called Victory Mondays, right, Where you can schedule a victory Monday and, and if you don't know what that is, victory, Mondays is where is is. So we played yesterday, we won the game. Coach says, hey, Victory Mondays, that means you get the day off. But what victory how Victory Mondays start. Is it start Sunday where you are going around the locker room and you're giving high five to your players saying, I saw you, thank you for that hit. Thank you for being all in in marriage. If we had some scheduled time during the week where we high fived each other and said, wow, I saw you did a good job on that. Or when you affirm their heart or affirm what they do and what, how that makes you feel. Or even times of celebration, right. Where we say, wow, I saw that and now, hey, give me a kiss or let's go to dinner. Dinner. I think when we build margin in our schedule to affirm, acknowledge and celebrate each other as opposed to becoming pros. Some of us, we are pros at pointing out everything our spouse does wrong. And we seldom point out what they do right. So Victory Mondays gives us a rhythm in our schedule where we are high fiving each other and we are partying and saying, man, ah, thank you for being in my life because we are truly better together. Together.
Dr. Jessica Peck And that's just one example of the many practical tools. I think you're right, George. Especially this will really appeal to men who want to lead their families, who want to lead in their Marriages. But sometimes it can just feel hard because you just want to fix it. You know, that's what, a lot of men want to do. I hate to generalize, but I know my, that's what my husband has shared with me is that they just want to fix it. And so having a game plan to be successful, to look for those victories, I think is really impactful.
What have you learned about marriage from your role as NFL chaplains
And you know, it's just so interesting to me with you both being the chaplains at, for an NFL team, a, ah, football team. Because I think the NFL must recognize the impact that marriage has in every area of your life. It affects your, your spirit, it affects your soul, affects your mind, it affects your body. What have you seen as, as what have you learned from your experience? Because you kind of look at people, like that would be in the NFL and think, oh, well, sure, clearly they don't have any problems. Right. What have you learned about marriage from your role as chaplains in the, NFL?
George Gregory Well, man, so what one is, is that there's always things that you have to overcome. Right? Like you, you talked about, like, facing your opponents. Like every time you see, whether it's basketball, baseball or football, you have to come out of that tunnel and a, face your opponent. That's somebody who wants to beat you down or they want to win the championship and they're going to do whatever it take you not to win. And so you have to, as a couple, compared to sports teams, you have to have that same, mentality that whatever comes out of these gates, we are going to win together. I think it was gla, Maximus, Maximus and Gladiator. He says whatever comes out of this gate, we've got a better chance of survival if we stay together. And that's one of the things that we teach is, is is staying together and working through those tough issues. Teams often have problems, but they can overcome it when they learn to play better together. And that's all about building a good team culture. That's all about honoring one another. And it's also about, about really knowing that there are a lot of differences on that team and figuring out how best to bring out those differences so that we can win together.
Tondra Gregory Yeah, yeah, I would say definitely in, in, in. In a professional sports type of environment, being on that same page about, you know, like, football is king in the NFL. Right. And that's something these couples have to agree to let football be this big thing, a big part of their relationship. So being on the same page and in agreement with that, there's so much power in agreement. it protects against those times where we want to resist, resent. It protects against bitterness and resentment when it's okay, we've agreed this is what we want to do as a couple. So we're on the same page and we're moving in the same direction. And you can't assume that those are conversations you definitely have to have. you have to have that agreement and make sure that you're clear on the agreement of what that looks like. And both of you be on. Bought in on that and both make sacrifices, for that to happen. So. And I think we do that in all couples have to make those decisions and those agreements about whatever they're doing in their lives.
George Gregory Well, Dr. Jessica, another thing is that we, we. We understand in sports that the highs won't last always. Right there. There's going to be some valley moments. Right. And we also understand that careers end and there might be some of your listeners who. They're going through a transitionary period. And it's tough. Right? Right. Like when. When our players retire, sometimes it's very tough for them. Why? It's because life changes. The money's not there as much as it was, or the ability to do certain things. But if life is built off just the highs, then we're in trouble. Right. We've got to learn that consistency through building your friendship in marriage, consistency of growing your love for each other and evolving over time mind and the mentality that whatever comes out of these gates, we can do it together. That's about doing it together versus it's all about what I get out of it. My happiness, my. My ups and. And just winning. But there's moments that you just got to be cons. You just got to be sort of consistent at winning in the home game. And that's what we'd like to say.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's such a great advice, being consistent and then having agreement. I can see that for families who are in professional sports, but also families who are in the military, families who are caring for a family member with a chronic illness, something that is going to consume a lot of their time, and being intentional about being in agreement with that, but having a game plan. And George, you mentioned Gladiator. And one of the quotes, actually, that my husband and I say a lot from Gladiator is when things seem really chaotic, when maybe, you know, the. There's some, some intense fellowship or the kids are, you know, just things are off kilter. We look at each other and say, are you not entertain contained. Yeah, but listen, I've been so grateful, so encouraged by this conversation. And I know that no couple stepping onto the field of marriage hopes to lose. But without a plan, it is easy to drift apart. So I hope they will get your book, George and Tondra Gregory, the Marriage Game Plan. It's your biblically based practical guide to growing strong, stronger together no matter what season you're in, in season or off. So here's the question. Are you willing to put in the work to become the couple that God designed you to be? So grab your copy of the Marriage Game Plan. Start building your legacy of love today. Start making a path to victory. And as you do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you. And I'll see you right here next time.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
George and Tondra Gregory share tips for marriage success guided by God's Word, the best playbook for developing a winning strategy.
Rx for Hope: Develop a Winning Strategy for Marriage
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