Dr. Jessica Peck is prescribing Hope for healthy families on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing hope for healthy families. Listen, I feel like every day I am on a quest to find hope in the world because it's. It is a world that feels hopeless. And as I look in the faces of my children that, that I have at home, the children that I serve, in a clinical sense just everyone, everywhere, I think we are just so desperate for hope. And we're going to give you some really practical tools to be able to provide that to the people you know and love. Whether that's someone at work, someone in your church, someone in your family, someone in your community, maybe it's your children. We are going to really equip you to share biblical answ for real life issues. And I'm, very, very happy to be talking about this book. I've talked about this book already once on the show, but I feel so strongly about it, we're going to talk about it again. This book is the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real life issues. And we know that life feels very heavy today, heavier than even before. Just feels like it got really heavy at Covid, and it just hasn't gotten any better. We've got anxiety, we've got stress, we've got broken relationships, we've got hidden pain. We've got a continual stream of news telling us about new violent events that have happened. And it's overwhelming, not only for us as individual human beings, but entire families, entire communities, entire churches. And many of us wonder, what does God's word say about the struggles we are facing every single day? And how can we practically apply it when the weight of life just feels unbearable? We know we're having a mental health crisis, and I can attest to you that is definitely my reality as a clinician. But there's not enough help and hope, and there's not enough people who are talking about the things that they are struggling with. And when people do disclose a struggle, a lot of times if they disclose that to a Christ, all of a sudden we think, oh, this is no longer about you who is having the struggle. This is about me. And do I have the right answer? Do I know the right Bible verse? Do I know the right thing to say? And you act like it's a pop quiz all of a sudden to test your Christianity when really it's just a moment to provide some care and counsel. And that involves a lot more listening than it does speaking. That's your preview there. And so my guest today is Haley Scully. She is senior vice president of ministry operations at Hope for the Heart, which, a tremendous organization that has trained thousands of people across more than 35 countries in counseling, coaching and care ministry. And today she is bringing right to you her deep counseling experience in her new book, the Care and Counsel Handbook, to help us discover how do we give biblical answers for real life issues. Haley, thank you so much for joining us.
Haley Scully: Oh, it is my pleasure. I love how you introduced into this and just highlighting the need for it. So thank you for having me and representing this book from our ministry today.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Haley, I'd love to just hear about your story, how you came to know the Lord and how he called you into a ministry to do exactly what we just said you're doing today. How has God worked in your life?
Haley Scully: well, in. In some of the best ways and some of the hardest ways, which I'm sure a lot of people can identify with. I grew up in church, so was in church a lot. I think I could really relate, like what you were saying, how do we hope? And so as I got a little bit older, actually it was in my late 20s that I kind of surrendered to the call to. To go into counseling. I started my master's degree in. In marriage and family counseling, at Southwestern Seminary when I was 31 years old. So I kind of jumped into this a little bit later. but it was after years of just asking some hard questions. You know, I grew up in church. I thought that I knew how go respond and how I should be feeling and how life should be going. So like you said, when things hit like Covid or stressors or anxiety or worry, I. I loved the Lord, but I didn't know how to actually put my hope in Him. I didn't know how to actually apply God's word. And when I came to Hope for the Heart and started learning just some basic tools that I thought I was going to be counseling other people with, you know, I thought I was going to be helping other people with their issues as I went into counseling and started seeing clients and working with them, and I just found that God kept kind of loosening knots that I had and showing me what it really meant to hope in Him. And I'm incredibly grateful for that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Praise God for that. It reminds me of the scripture of the man asking for healing, saying, I do believe. Help my unbelief. It's kind of that, both and that tension, right? Like, we do believe that God is good. We do believe that he cares, but. But it's really hard to face some of the things that we are facing in the world. And Haley, I hear so much negativity from older generations, mine included, and I count myself guilty in that, really. Just giving Gen Z, Gen Alpha, even millennials, to some extent, this message that it's a really terrible time to be alive and the world is awful and, you know, there's no hope. The only hope that we have is Jesus coming back, which of course is the great hope that we have.
Dr. Jessica Peck: What do you see in that generational space as far as the messaging that we're giving to generations who are grappling with some of these issues that are unique to these younger generations?
Haley Scully: Well, I do think, you know, there is a lot of evidence that we're hearing from ministries that are working with youth. Greg, steer and Dare to share, Jenny Allen, the Barna group, some of their responses that are coming out. Younger generations are open to conversations about the Lord. A lot of them are returning to church. So we see a bit of, of a revival, a bit of hope, and opportunity in those generations. But I think you're right. It's some of the older generations, those of us that maybe, maybe we kind of gutted it out and we had this expectation when we hit hard times that we just needed to do the right thing, say the right thing, you know, act with integrity. I think a lot of times our older generations, and sometimes, you know, it's right, wrong or indifferent. It's not that that everybody was just didn't know how to follow the Lord. I think older generations absolutely love the Lord. They have genuine relationships with the Lord. But I do think sometimes we didn't know how to practically actually do hope. We just kind of buried emotions and we worked on obedience, we worked on stress. And so now when we say there is no hope for the world, it's because we didn't actually practice applying the hope and the truth of Scripture to some those everyday issues. We maybe just got in the habit of stuffing it and, you know, putting on the masks and all of those things. So now we don't know what to say or what to do. So I think we are in a prime opportunity for all of these generations to say hope is real. It's not just a theoretical. You need to put Your hope in God. We can actually look at what the word of God says on all of these different things and practice what hoping in him really, really means. And it's not just like, if I pray hard enough, or if I pray the right words, or if I can say the right thing to God that will make him kind of unlock his goodness or fix a situation. You know, hope is not dependent on us. Hope is the business that God is in. So it's saying, what am I hoping in? What is my definition of hope? And hope is not that God's going to be, you know, make my candidate win, give me the husband or the spouse, or the job that I want. It's not like a wish list. Hope is real. And when we go through hard times like Covid and, you know, unrest in our societies, this is the time where we can practically apply, what does it mean to put my hope in Christ in the specific issue that I'm in? We don't have to talk in generalities. We can talk about manipulation. We can talk about fear. We can talk about anxiety. We can talk about depression. If we start to unlock the keys to hope where we're hurting, then we start to understand how God can work in our life, specifically and intentionally. And that is what I think is going to catch fire.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I could not, agree more, and I love it because I feel like we're at this moment of opportunity. When you look at older generations, they have been through a lot more life experience. They have lived a lot more life. And, we're talking about grandparents who have lived through the Great Depression, who have lived through World War II, who learned to be very stoic and learned that God is good even in those hard times. At the same time, we have a generation who's willing to engage in conversation like we have never seen before and to work out these issues of our faith and to have conversations around things that were honestly not socially acceptable to talk about even half a century ago, even 20 years ago. And for some of those things, just not even too long ago. And I think that there's such an opportunity there for the faith of the older generations to really partner with that perspective and conversation. Because there's a hunger in the younger generations to know things of, faith, to know like, is God really good when the world isn't? And how do we know that?
Haley Scully: The Care and Counsel Handbook is a very practical handbook
And one of the things I really appreciate about your work, Haley, is that you're putting a very practical handbook. I feel like every home needs a copy of this book. It should be like what we used to refer to, like in the dictionary or a thesaurus or something like that. Yeah, it's just such a practical handbook. Oh, we're going through this. What does God's word say about this? So I want to know what's unique about this Care and Counsel Handbook than all of the other books that are out there?
Haley Scully: Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with that. It is very practical. There are. In the beginning of the book, we kind of set. We talk about context being king, and content is important. And this book will help kind of set some expectations when we're having conversations with others. What does it mean to counsel somebody or mentor somebody or give somebody advice and care in this way? So we try to just set some understanding of, you know, we aren't the fixers, we aren't the healers. We're just people that have opportunity to share the good news and kind of lead people to God's word. So we give a bit of context. But then in a hundred life issues, everyday topics. The book is just over 800 pages long, but there's a hundred different topics, and we call them kind of a quick reference guide on all of these different issues to depression, anxiety. So it starts to kind of open that first door of understanding on these issues. We will. You know, I think one thing that's so important for us is to not look with condescension at people or generations that maybe didn't learn things that we did or maybe are having different experiences. Sometimes we can be a little bit condescending. and I mean that in the. In the most respectful way possible. We can think, well, you haven't even been through. I mean, that isn't that hard, huh? You know, we end up kind of. I think Satan tempts us to compare and compete over what our trials have been and how we have responded to them. So we just need to, first thing, just take that off of the shelf. We don't have to compare and compete with the levels of trials or anxieties. So don't look at people with condescension. Look at them with compassion, whatever the struggle or the issue they're experiencing. Instead of applying, like, my own expectations, I like to call it, like my grandma's advice. You know, what did I learn from my grandma? I mean, I can. I had two incredible grandmas. And, you know, if we don't know what content or kind of how to take people to God's word, we just start to repeat our own experiences or our own cultural expectations. And so with this book, in a hundred different topics, topics you start to get a feel for. Okay, what. What kind of, are some main things that I need to know? What are some main scriptures that maybe apply to this area if I want to? You know, I could even see families. I just opened the book on my desk. Grief is one of the topics. There are about 10 pages just with key verses, key points, some checklists. It just starts to give us a language or a vocabulary. So if I'm caring for somebody that's going through grief, I may not be their everyday or weekly counselor, but I can give them good advice. Advice that's going to take them to the Lord and take them to his word and not just tell them, you know, maybe what my grandma Bonnie said to do when you have grief, which I think that would have been really good advice. But I'm just saying this is that kind of handbook that we can really start to practice what we preach. That the word of God is sufficient for the hope and the hurts that we experience.
Dr. Jessica Peck: The word of God is sufficient for the hope and the hurts we experience. I completely agree. I love sharing my granny's advice, too. Haley, it's great advice, but partnering it with the timeless truth of the unshakable foundation of the Word of God is so essential. And I'm so grateful for all that you're doing. I really cannot emphasize enough how much I think that everybody needs a copy of this because as you're counseling people, as people are coming to you, it really gives you tools from very accomplished professionals who use those gifts that God has given them to help you minister to those people who are in your sphere. The book is called the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of, biblical answers for 100 real life issues. We'll be right back with more from Haley Scully. See you on the other side of this break.
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Up + Up by Colton Dixon: Even though I walk through the valley? Sometimes it feels like a crawl through the valley But I got a promise that I hold on tight too? I can't lose when I'm right beside you, yeah God, I know the plans you have for me when my cup is overflowing so while I'm in the in between? I'mma live my life knowing if I get down, you pick me up from the ground? You give me love that don't give out, give in no condition you lift me up and up again now no matter who's around like a freight train, sunshine or rain
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That's up + up by Colton Dixon. And that's where we're going today. We're going up and up, giving you answers, some real biblical answers, and equipping you to share those biblical answers for real life issues. We're talking about the book, the care and counsel handbook, a quick reference guide of, biblical answers for 100 real life issues. I can just imagine this book on the bookshelf of a family in their home, and their teenager comes and they're struggling with something, and the parents pull this book down and they say, let's look this up. Let's talk about what does God say about anxiety? What does he say about fear? What does he say about grief, about forgiveness, about abuse? These aren't abstract concepts. These are really the daily realities that are weighing on us and the people that we love who are all around us. And so we're talking with Haley Scully today, who is a contributor to this book, exploring how God's word speaks directly into our personal challenges and how we can walk with others in their time of need with truth and compassion. Now, for some of these issues, you do need some professional help. And so I do want to encourage you to reach out to do that. We have had on, on the president of the American association of Christian Counselors and given lots of resources about that. And I would encourage you to, to, connect with a counselor if that's something that you need. But there are a lot of these issues that do not rise to the level of a clinical diagnosis or needing clinical treatment. But they do need wise counsel from those who are around us, from those people that we trust. And Haley, one of the things you and I were just talking about during the break, one of the things that holds us back is fear. We're really afraid to speak into somebody else's experience. We're afraid we'll say the wrong thing. And to be honest, that's. That's a real fear. You can say the wrong thing. You can say something that's harmful, and we're afraid, like, we. We don't know the right thing to say. We're afraid that we're going to, you know, intrude on their privacy or their space or that we'll look stupid. I mean, the. The fears go on and on and on. How do you see this book really equipping people in that moment, in that place of. Of fear to be able to share with confidence?
Haley Scully: I mean, that is one of the pushbacks that we hear all the time. What if I say the wrong thing? What if I don't know what the Bible says about this? What if I say the wrong thing? I was working with, kind of developing a women's, mentoring program at my home church in Oklahoma City, and that was one of the main things lady said, like, I don't know what to say. What do I, you know? So we are. This book represents actually 40 years of ministry, 40 years of June Hunt, our founder, who has been doing counseling on her radio programs for years. People know her as a really wise counselor. And this is the content that she's opening. And she's taking people to God's word in. So it is 40 years worse worth of, a system of approaching these everyday life issues. We look at the definitions, the characteristics, how is it displayed in your life, the causes. You know, you're not just failing because you're struggling with anxiety or fear. There are causes for those things. So when we can talk about that a little bit, people can understand, oh, this is why I struggle with this. It's just not. It's not just because I lack faith or it's not just because I don't know how to pray right for God to fix this. I have been through these experiences that have made me, led me to feel fear. And then in our resources, we kind of end with what steps to solution are there? What are some practical ways you can apply God's word? What are some practical things that you can start to put into practice when you're feeling whatever these emotions are?
The Care and Counsel Handbook aims to equip those who feel hopeless to help others
And then we also have, you know, you kind of mentioned people that are called to care. I mean, they have a heart, they want to help people. They're leading small groups, they're parenting. You know, they're stepping into these spaces. We also have a fully digital online training that we call our Foundations of Care And it really just walks people through. It's 10 different sessions, an 11 session about stress and burnout that really our heart is to equip all of those people that say, I feel hopeless to impact this situation. I see my kids struggling. I see my world struggling. I see my community struggling. I don't know what to say and I don't know where to start. So we not only start with the content, but then again, we have some incredible training that can help people feel, I like to say, confident and competent. And that means that not that you have all the answers, but that you know how to maybe take somebody to the help so that the Holy Spirit is then the one that's going to truly minister to them as you kind of come alongside them. So this resource, I always say the power is not in the Care Net and Counsel Handbook. We love and feel like God really called us to put this book together in a practical way that just like you said, can be reached down off of a bookshelf. But the power is in the word of God. And when God sees us reaching into that, when he sees us open this book knowing and believing that it's going to take us to his word, he responds to that. I've seen it over and over through our ministry. I've been here for 15 years, and I've just. I've got to see so many times, and even in my own life, how unlocking some of those pieces. A lot of us grow up in church. We. We know the motions, we love the Lord. We. We believe who he is. We just didn't necessarily learn. Where do I go in his word when I'm feeling really anxious and not feel condemned for feeling anxious? You know, some people say worry is a sin. Well, that is maybe a little bit harsh.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.
Haley Scully: I mean, okay, what do I do? What do I do? Now I'm worried and I think God's mad at me, you know, so, it's just picking those pieces apart and giving people just kind of a. A big concordance that can start to bring them some calm and some peace and a bit of structure to how to hope. Not just the theory of hope, but putting some legs on how to hope.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a great way to drive out fear and responding to someone, because as you said, I mean, this is built on 40 years of ministry. And to have all of those pearls, all of the wisdom, all of the lessons that God has imparted to you, to the. To June, to everybody who's been involved in the ministry and putting this. It's so wonderful to be able to have that resource right in our hands. And Haley, right next to my desk, I have a chair that is just always an open invitation for my kids to sit in. And I wanted to have them to have an invitation to my physical presence, you know, just to say, hey, you're always welcome to hang around if I'm working or if I'm doing something, you know, you're here. Well, they started calling it the counseling chair, Haley, because that's where we had a lot of conversations. And before I knew it, they were bringing kids home from school. Like, I'm putting the counseling chair there. And I can see this book, like, right there, just to open up, to guide, because as you said, I'm going to open up, you know, to the section on whatever it is that they're facing, whether that's addiction. But then we're going to point back to God's word. That's what this resource does. I think it would be a great resource, especially for youth group, for life group leaders, for people who are shepherding, a group of people who are able to point them to God's word and to know, like, how to navigate the resources that are there. I think that's just so important. And Haley, one of the issues. There's so many issues that are covered in this book. I mean, just like you said, over a hundred. and one of the issues that you talk a lot about is, is the singleness. And there's information in this book about relationships and dating and marriage and blended families and singleness. Can you walk us through that and talk about what does that look like from a biblical care and counsel perspective?
Haley Scully: Well, absolutely. So I am 49. I am. I'd like to jump ahead and just say I'm 50, but I've never been married. Singleness is part of my story. You know, I don't have kids. And so that's one of those life issues that a lot of people deal with, and that's part of their life story and don't necessarily know exactly how to apply those. The issues that single people may face. You know, as we're learning things in church or as we're. We're going through different lessons. So, you know, a lot of times people Will say, well, Jesus was single. And so you. That's supposed to be a gift that you have. You know, some people will say, things to try to encourage single people, but it's like, how do those of us that are single when. When marriages and family are a lot of the conversation in our churches, and rightly so, those are important things to talk about for. But for nearly half of adults the ages of 34 to about 64, according to recent research, are that identify as Christian are single adults, about 47%. Maybe they've never been married or they're widowed or divorced, but there's a lot of Christian adults who are not married. And so one of the ways that this book can be really helpful are the resources is, okay, I have issues that I need to talk through with the Lord. I may not necessarily be hearing about that in church. So where can I go and take my heart to him? Because just like you said, there are times where we need to go to professional counseling. And that's part of our foundations of care training, helps people understand that. When do we refer out, when do we make sure that we need to make sure that somebody gets to somebody that, that is trained to talk about what their needs are? But for a lot of us, it's everyday issues. It's loneliness, maybe it's decision making, maybe it is forgiveness or fear. There are a lot of emotions that we feel in relationship in relation to, you know, maybe our marriage status if we're single. but I just think that's a good example of a demographic that maybe doesn't go to counseling to address that, but also doesn't need to just people say, well, you need to sign up on a dating app and find somebody. You know, marriage isn't always the solution to our singleness questions. It's always about seeking God's heart. And I think for some of us, a, resource like this is a safe place to begin kind of coming before God and saying, you know what? God, God, I'm a little bit anxious about this. I'm worried about this. And maybe even I'm mad, maybe even I'm angry, God, that, that I've gotten to this stage in life and you didn't send me a spouse for whatever our concepts or our expectations of that were. So this is a resource that we can start to equip ourselves not just to help somebody else, but to kind of redirect what could be a wrong expectation of the blessing of God or a wrong expectation of the goodness of God. And I start to take my heart to him in my own home, and then start to let that conversation kind of grow out and maybe share and connect with others who are kind of having some of the same experiences. So I'm just saying it's a safe place. It's a safe place for a lot of us to ask some of our questions, organized in some of the specific issues that we might be dealing with.
One pivot that you can make here is really keeping the focus on that person experiencing something
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Haley, you said something earlier that was really, really important. And I want to make sure our listeners catch this. And you. And you just said it just now. You said that when we don't know what to say, when we feel fearful, when we feel insecure, when we feel anxious about giving someone an answer, talking them through something that they're going through, we revert back to our own experience. And I think that's really important for our listeners to catch here, because if you don't catch anything else from here, that can be. One pivot that you can make here is really keeping the focus on that person who is experiencing something. So I see this in singleness, just like you just described. So if some. If I'm not single and you're describing to me your experience of singleness, then I'm immediately going to frame that through my perspective. Join a dating app. Well, this is how I met my husband. He was on a blind date. Let me call somebody. Let me. Because your experience needs to be like my experience. And we do that even with grief, like, oh, you know, somebody experiences someone who passes away, and we start. The next thing we know, we're telling them about our Uncle Johnny's second cousins, you know, know, third, cousin twice removed, right. Who had the same experience, and this is what happened with them. And then all of a sudden, we just continue to take and put that. Put. I'm just having this vision of we're really pivoting and putting the attention on ourselves rather than not directing them inward or outward, but upward and directing them to the word of God and meeting them at their point of need. How can we be better at that, Haley, as a. As a people?
Haley Scully: Well, the thing that, the thing that I have found is we need to remember, and I try to remember. I am not the point of my story. You know, God is the point of every testimony. So that's why, you know, like, when you say, well, this happened to my cousin's uncle, it's not necessarily the specifics or, the details of what happened in your experience. It is the fact that God responded to whatever the situation was. Like, we can Seek God in our singleness. So, for instance, if I'm telling somebody I used to say I would. I was my own worst nightmare. If I was 30 years old and I heard a Christian woman that was 49 talking about being okay being single, I would have just, like, immediately turned it off because I did not want to be encouraged. Yeah, well, it's the truth. And I know there's a lot of. A lot of men and women that feel that way. And so I think just being honest about it when I share about my story, I feel at this point, I've wrestled with him. I mean, I've shared. Never having children is probably the biggest heartbreak of my life. It was a certainly a desire of my heart. It was certainly a hope I never even dreamed growing up and being with the Lord and serving him in ministry and that path leading to me not having children. And so having experienced and wrestled with him in that. If I tell that story to a young woman who is m. Right now at a different stage than I am, maybe late 20s or 30s or still hoping to find somebody in that, then I could kind of like you're saying, I could say, you'll be fine never having kids. You know, I could kind of overlay my story onto that. But the. The overlay that I would give them is that God does have a plan for your life. I believe that in scripture, he never just said, you know, hey, David, what do you want to do? You know, I'll bless it because you're a man after my own heart. He said, david, this is the way do this. Are, you. You know, is it a yes or is it a no? Because he always had a plan. So it's like, when we step into that, the encouragement that I give to somebody is not that you'll be okay if you get to 49 and ever have kids or don't get married. It's that if that God is with you and seek him first.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, that's so good. I hate to stop there. Listen so much more with Haley Scully Don't miss the ending right on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part, too. Was she on a ship Oh No, she stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war, and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies and I'll tell you all about it.
Mighty to Save by Michael W. Smith: Everyone needs compassion A Love that's never failing Let mercy fall on me Everyone needs forgiveness the kindness of a savior the hope of nations yeah, everyone Savior he can move the mountains Our God is mighty to save he is mighty to save Forever Author of salvation He rose and conquered the grave Jesus conquered the grave welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That that is mighty to save by Michael W. Smith. And that takes me back a little bit. But, you know, I can think of standing in church at very specific times in my life where I was facing really significant trials and to be able to sing those words that come from Zephaniah, Chapter three. The Lord your God is in your midst A mighty one who will save he will rejoice over you with gladness he will quiet you by his love he will exalt result over you with loud singing. That is the kind of care and counsel that the Lord offers to us. And what you are being offered today is a reflection of that care and counsel through an incredible resource. I think every church should have it. Every church leader should have it. Every family should have it. It is called the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real life issues. And instead of trying to rely on our own wisdom, rely on our own strength to be able to meet the questions that our kids have today, the questions that are in our own hearts about some things that are really, really tough. I mean, we are talking about things that people are walking through that we could never imagine. Pain and suffering and heartbreak and tragedy and trial. But God has inspired these ministry leaders to put this resource in their hands. This to you from Hope for the Heart. And I hope that you will be intentional in offering care and counsel to those around you who are hurting and need that. In a world where we have a mental health crisis at epidemic levels, the church in particular is uniquely positioned to be a refuge of hope. And I see churches talking about issues like they haven't talked about before and meeting real people with real needs in real time. But there is too often that I see pastors or leaders or parents or just everyday Christians who want to do the right thing, but we just feel like we're not Equipped to respond well when people are hurting. And I hope you've been encouraged by Haley Scully and her devotion to her ministry in equipping us to listen well and to care wisely and most importantly, to respond to biblical truth. And, Haley, before the break, you were just sharing so tenderly, so vulnerably, so authentically your own journal. A journey of singleness. And one of the things you and I were talking about during the break is that it feels like everyone carries some part of their story that they wishes weren't part of their story. I very rarely meet people who think, you know, this is how I grew up. This was exactly the things that I wanted to go. And everything in my life has gone right, and I haven't thought, faced anything that's taken me off. We all have a part of our story that we carry that maybe we wish wasn't a part. Maybe it was within our control, maybe it wasn't within our control. But you were just sharing that so. So well. And what. What are the inner needs that connect us all, Haley? All that all people share, how they. They connect to the struggles that we see today, no matter what that struggle is.
Haley Scully: I think it's a great perspective for people to have that want to help others. In our ministry, we talk about three inner needs being the need for love, for significance, and for security. And a lot of our motivations in relationship and in decisions, they kind of come from our need to secure those three inner needs. We don't always recognize it. It's not like we say, I understand that I'm making this decision because I feel insecure and unsafe, and I'm needing to feel secure and safe. Safe. But it is allowing us to just. I, always say, do a little gut check, do a heart check. Why am I feeling this way? Why is this the decision that I'm making? If I can realize I am loved by God? He fills that need. I have significance because he sees me. He created me. I can lean into my strengths. I don't need to compete or compare with somebody else's to try to. To gain the significance that I see them having. I need to lean into my creator and say, how did you make me? What are my giftings? What should I be doing? Because our significance is promised by Him. And then our security. how do we define security? Well, in my experience growing up, a lot of security came in marriage, came in family. And some of those things have not been my experiences. So what do I anchor my security to? Sometimes that can make us get into relationships that aren't healthy, or take jobs that aren't necessarily the best fits for us because we're trying to be our own shelter and our own shade. So when we can help people understand, you are loved, you are significant, you are secure. I said to myself, I mean, these are things that I have to learn. And I've had opportunity to walk out here, but, man, the freedom to have those locked up. Help me make healthy relationship decisions, help me make healthy job choices, help me not worry about my future that normally for me would m be defined by the care of children and grandchildren. And I look ahead and don't necessarily see that at this point in my life, that could make me feel destabilized. So. So it's just doing the gut check, doing a heart check, and then maybe having a resource of saying, where do I go to find God's word on this heart issue that I'm hurting with? Because here's the thing, we. A lot of times we will stuff those issues. If I just stuffed some of my disappointment in singleness, well, for one, then I would maybe not tell people that I was open to them introducing me to a friend if they, if somebody came to mind, mind, you know, I am open to that. But I would stuff it if I was embarrassed again, you know, whatever the issue is grief or, or shame or guilt, if we stuff those things, then we're less likely to allow God to heal them, to bring them before him and say, this is where my hurt is. God, what does your word say? And through the power of your spirit, help me to feel free of this. I think that is our opportunity in Christ. And a lot of times, like I said, I grew up in church, but I didn't necessarily know how to walk that out, you know, or how to apply his Word right where I was hurting. But every morning, Jessica, we wake up at a new well. We wake up at a new well of opportunity of maybe some disappointment or some concern. And that, well, Jesus wants to meet us every morning and say, here's your. Here's the heart need. You were loved. So whatever the situation is, we can wake up to him, take it to him. And I think resources like this are kind of the tangible way that people can start to actually practically walking out, applying God's word to our everyday lives. I grew up in church. I loved him since I was a little girl. My salvation was secure. But that freedom and abundance in life that Jesus says that he came for, those were things that I think some of us don't learn. We just stuff and move on, but we've got a savior that wants to heal us and set us free. And so we hope as a ministry that's been June hunt's calling for 40 years, as she has counseled people and those of us that are on the team now. It's our calling to continue to teach people to let that sink into their hearts and sink into how they relate to God and how they relate to one another. Other.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, Amen to all of that, because it just reminds me of the scripture. The thief comes to steal and kill and destroy, but Jesus came that we may have life and have it to the fullest. And I think so often we can fall in the trap of just trying to, you know, just kind of get by and accepting mediocre and accepting that, well, this is just the way that things are. And so you just have to accept it and move on. And I think, think finding joy in that. You even talk, I see in your bio, about thriving in that singleness and whatever that is, that anybody is walking through that part of their story that they feel like, I, wish that wasn't part of my story. I've shared, you know, I wish that emotional. I wish that relational brokenness wasn't part of my story. But how do I, how do I find joy even when that circumstance doesn't shift? And I think that's really what you're getting at, Haley, because, because from our human perspective, when people share something that they're going through, whether it be singleness and however they view that, or infertility or addiction or grief or self harming or anxiety or whatever other of the hundred things that are in this book, instead of us trying to say, oh, how do we fix your situation? Like, maybe you should talk to somebody. Maybe you should, you should write your mom a letter. You know, you should, you know, go to this, this group or go see this therapist. Like, we just try to just fix the circumstances instead of focusing on the heart. And that's why I really appreciate how you brought up those three inner needs. It's all about refocusing it back to God and remembering that he is the ultimate author of our story. And he who began a good work will be faithful to complete it. And that's where the freedom is. We don't have to micromanage every circumstance. So how does the book have help pull people in that direction?
Haley Scully: Well, just, just giving us a common language, you know, because this, this book are the quick reference guides of actually fuller books on all of these topics.
Haley: Depression doesn't have to be completely scary
So still, you know, our, our Book on grief, for instance, or on decision making. It may be 100, 150 pages. It's going to be filled with checklists. So you can always go a little bit deeper on these issues. But I think just kind of like, okay, this is where I can start. This is where I begin. I begin to acclimate myself to the conversation. It's not completely unknown. Depression doesn't have to be completely scary. Anxiety doesn't have to be something that we're worried about saying the wrong thing. We can begin to kind of equip ourselves. You know, sometimes I'll talk about a recipe. If. If we're. If we want lasagna for dinner, we got to buy all the ingredients, right? It doesn't just happen. And I feel like if we want to have lives that are free, then this is one of the ingredients that we could start to pull into truths. You know, wrong beliefs, Right beliefs, good scripture, memory, verse, practical checklists and steps to be able to rightly define what it is that we're dealing with. Some people may say, I'm depressed, but if we actually kind of look at what the symptoms are that they're experiencing, they're actually angry. They're actually so mad about something, and they are pressed down. But anger may be part of, you know, hurt, fear, injustice, frustration. There may be something else that's going on that we need to get to the root of that we're defining as, depression. Well, so we start dealing with the symptoms of depression when what we need to get to is the injustice or the fear or the frustration that they're experiencing. So just kind of flipping the light switch on topics that we deal with every day, but we don't necessarily know how to talk about or how to help. I think this helps to open us up to hope. Like I said, it's when God sees us reaching out for hope, man, he reaches down for us. You know, he reaches to lift us up out of those pits that we find ourselves in. And it's just been an honor in this ministry to be a part of unlocking those doors for people for. For many, many years.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley. I have definitely learned that about the Lord. And walking with him I have seen in my life over and over. He is so gracious to give me far beyond what I could. What exceeds, beyond what I could ever ask or imagine. A little tiny bit of effort, a little mustard seed of faith. God blesses abundantly, and I have found that. So let that encourage you as you're thinking, okay, I want to start in this Direction. Because, Haley, I believe, I really believe with all my heart that there are church leaders listening here today who are feeling their heart stirred, thinking we need to move more in this direction. We need to give more of this practical support. Yes, you can talk about it from the pulpit, but we need more practical supports. Can you tell them where to go for hope for the heart and about the resources that you have there, there?
Haley Scully: Yeah. Go to hopefortheheart.org now. This book is available anywhere. Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, anywhere that you buy books. The care and counsel handbook is there. And like I said, if. If our ministry were a huge iceberg, this is just a little piece that's sticking out of the water is this book. This is what acclimates people to kind of understanding what we have. Then if they, this is a perfect handbook. If they want to drill down on a specific topic, we have additional books, additional video content, and then one piece that, like I said, we're really excited about. We don't want to just be in the business of dropping books off in people's hands. We want to help people understand how to do this. Because when you raise your hand and say, I will help, I'm going to lead people to God's word, there's a bit of a target, you know, and so we want to help people know how to care for others. Well, so our foundations of care training, that digital training that's online, that's how you could prepare your church groups. There's a self study for all of those of us that maybe want to go through it ourselves. There's a group study. If you wanted to take your church leaders through it, it really prepares the heart of the person to know that they don't fix people, they don't fix problems. When do you refer? How do you ask good questions? What is the call in scripture to even counsel and care for people? So it really helps us kind of get right, get our hearts right so that we don't get overwhelmed and taken off course. And then the content is there. So we want to equip the person with the right heart and then equip them with the right content to help themselves and help.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, God bless you and thank you so much for sharing today your story, this research, and we know that script scripture offers hope for the personal struggles that we face. And I pray that as you provide care and counsel to those you love, that the Lord would bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, and I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck is prescribing Hope for healthy families on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing hope for healthy families. Listen, I feel like every day I am on a quest to find hope in the world because it's. It is a world that feels hopeless. And as I look in the faces of my children that, that I have at home, the children that I serve, in a clinical sense just everyone, everywhere, I think we are just so desperate for hope. And we're going to give you some really practical tools to be able to provide that to the people you know and love. Whether that's someone at work, someone in your church, someone in your family, someone in your community, maybe it's your children. We are going to really equip you to share biblical answ for real life issues. And I'm, very, very happy to be talking about this book. I've talked about this book already once on the show, but I feel so strongly about it, we're going to talk about it again. This book is the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real life issues. And we know that life feels very heavy today, heavier than even before. Just feels like it got really heavy at Covid, and it just hasn't gotten any better. We've got anxiety, we've got stress, we've got broken relationships, we've got hidden pain. We've got a continual stream of news telling us about new violent events that have happened. And it's overwhelming, not only for us as individual human beings, but entire families, entire communities, entire churches. And many of us wonder, what does God's word say about the struggles we are facing every single day? And how can we practically apply it when the weight of life just feels unbearable? We know we're having a mental health crisis, and I can attest to you that is definitely my reality as a clinician. But there's not enough help and hope, and there's not enough people who are talking about the things that they are struggling with. And when people do disclose a struggle, a lot of times if they disclose that to a Christ, all of a sudden we think, oh, this is no longer about you who is having the struggle. This is about me. And do I have the right answer? Do I know the right Bible verse? Do I know the right thing to say? And you act like it's a pop quiz all of a sudden to test your Christianity when really it's just a moment to provide some care and counsel. And that involves a lot more listening than it does speaking. That's your preview there. And so my guest today is Haley Scully. She is senior vice president of ministry operations at Hope for the Heart, which, a tremendous organization that has trained thousands of people across more than 35 countries in counseling, coaching and care ministry. And today she is bringing right to you her deep counseling experience in her new book, the Care and Counsel Handbook, to help us discover how do we give biblical answers for real life issues. Haley, thank you so much for joining us.
Haley Scully: Oh, it is my pleasure. I love how you introduced into this and just highlighting the need for it. So thank you for having me and representing this book from our ministry today.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Haley, I'd love to just hear about your story, how you came to know the Lord and how he called you into a ministry to do exactly what we just said you're doing today. How has God worked in your life?
Haley Scully: well, in. In some of the best ways and some of the hardest ways, which I'm sure a lot of people can identify with. I grew up in church, so was in church a lot. I think I could really relate, like what you were saying, how do we hope? And so as I got a little bit older, actually it was in my late 20s that I kind of surrendered to the call to. To go into counseling. I started my master's degree in. In marriage and family counseling, at Southwestern Seminary when I was 31 years old. So I kind of jumped into this a little bit later. but it was after years of just asking some hard questions. You know, I grew up in church. I thought that I knew how go respond and how I should be feeling and how life should be going. So like you said, when things hit like Covid or stressors or anxiety or worry, I. I loved the Lord, but I didn't know how to actually put my hope in Him. I didn't know how to actually apply God's word. And when I came to Hope for the Heart and started learning just some basic tools that I thought I was going to be counseling other people with, you know, I thought I was going to be helping other people with their issues as I went into counseling and started seeing clients and working with them, and I just found that God kept kind of loosening knots that I had and showing me what it really meant to hope in Him. And I'm incredibly grateful for that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Praise God for that. It reminds me of the scripture of the man asking for healing, saying, I do believe. Help my unbelief. It's kind of that, both and that tension, right? Like, we do believe that God is good. We do believe that he cares, but. But it's really hard to face some of the things that we are facing in the world. And Haley, I hear so much negativity from older generations, mine included, and I count myself guilty in that, really. Just giving Gen Z, Gen Alpha, even millennials, to some extent, this message that it's a really terrible time to be alive and the world is awful and, you know, there's no hope. The only hope that we have is Jesus coming back, which of course is the great hope that we have.
Dr. Jessica Peck: What do you see in that generational space as far as the messaging that we're giving to generations who are grappling with some of these issues that are unique to these younger generations?
Haley Scully: Well, I do think, you know, there is a lot of evidence that we're hearing from ministries that are working with youth. Greg, steer and Dare to share, Jenny Allen, the Barna group, some of their responses that are coming out. Younger generations are open to conversations about the Lord. A lot of them are returning to church. So we see a bit of, of a revival, a bit of hope, and opportunity in those generations. But I think you're right. It's some of the older generations, those of us that maybe, maybe we kind of gutted it out and we had this expectation when we hit hard times that we just needed to do the right thing, say the right thing, you know, act with integrity. I think a lot of times our older generations, and sometimes, you know, it's right, wrong or indifferent. It's not that that everybody was just didn't know how to follow the Lord. I think older generations absolutely love the Lord. They have genuine relationships with the Lord. But I do think sometimes we didn't know how to practically actually do hope. We just kind of buried emotions and we worked on obedience, we worked on stress. And so now when we say there is no hope for the world, it's because we didn't actually practice applying the hope and the truth of Scripture to some those everyday issues. We maybe just got in the habit of stuffing it and, you know, putting on the masks and all of those things. So now we don't know what to say or what to do. So I think we are in a prime opportunity for all of these generations to say hope is real. It's not just a theoretical. You need to put Your hope in God. We can actually look at what the word of God says on all of these different things and practice what hoping in him really, really means. And it's not just like, if I pray hard enough, or if I pray the right words, or if I can say the right thing to God that will make him kind of unlock his goodness or fix a situation. You know, hope is not dependent on us. Hope is the business that God is in. So it's saying, what am I hoping in? What is my definition of hope? And hope is not that God's going to be, you know, make my candidate win, give me the husband or the spouse, or the job that I want. It's not like a wish list. Hope is real. And when we go through hard times like Covid and, you know, unrest in our societies, this is the time where we can practically apply, what does it mean to put my hope in Christ in the specific issue that I'm in? We don't have to talk in generalities. We can talk about manipulation. We can talk about fear. We can talk about anxiety. We can talk about depression. If we start to unlock the keys to hope where we're hurting, then we start to understand how God can work in our life, specifically and intentionally. And that is what I think is going to catch fire.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I could not, agree more, and I love it because I feel like we're at this moment of opportunity. When you look at older generations, they have been through a lot more life experience. They have lived a lot more life. And, we're talking about grandparents who have lived through the Great Depression, who have lived through World War II, who learned to be very stoic and learned that God is good even in those hard times. At the same time, we have a generation who's willing to engage in conversation like we have never seen before and to work out these issues of our faith and to have conversations around things that were honestly not socially acceptable to talk about even half a century ago, even 20 years ago. And for some of those things, just not even too long ago. And I think that there's such an opportunity there for the faith of the older generations to really partner with that perspective and conversation. Because there's a hunger in the younger generations to know things of, faith, to know like, is God really good when the world isn't? And how do we know that?
Haley Scully: The Care and Counsel Handbook is a very practical handbook
And one of the things I really appreciate about your work, Haley, is that you're putting a very practical handbook. I feel like every home needs a copy of this book. It should be like what we used to refer to, like in the dictionary or a thesaurus or something like that. Yeah, it's just such a practical handbook. Oh, we're going through this. What does God's word say about this? So I want to know what's unique about this Care and Counsel Handbook than all of the other books that are out there?
Haley Scully: Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with that. It is very practical. There are. In the beginning of the book, we kind of set. We talk about context being king, and content is important. And this book will help kind of set some expectations when we're having conversations with others. What does it mean to counsel somebody or mentor somebody or give somebody advice and care in this way? So we try to just set some understanding of, you know, we aren't the fixers, we aren't the healers. We're just people that have opportunity to share the good news and kind of lead people to God's word. So we give a bit of context. But then in a hundred life issues, everyday topics. The book is just over 800 pages long, but there's a hundred different topics, and we call them kind of a quick reference guide on all of these different issues to depression, anxiety. So it starts to kind of open that first door of understanding on these issues. We will. You know, I think one thing that's so important for us is to not look with condescension at people or generations that maybe didn't learn things that we did or maybe are having different experiences. Sometimes we can be a little bit condescending. and I mean that in the. In the most respectful way possible. We can think, well, you haven't even been through. I mean, that isn't that hard, huh? You know, we end up kind of. I think Satan tempts us to compare and compete over what our trials have been and how we have responded to them. So we just need to, first thing, just take that off of the shelf. We don't have to compare and compete with the levels of trials or anxieties. So don't look at people with condescension. Look at them with compassion, whatever the struggle or the issue they're experiencing. Instead of applying, like, my own expectations, I like to call it, like my grandma's advice. You know, what did I learn from my grandma? I mean, I can. I had two incredible grandmas. And, you know, if we don't know what content or kind of how to take people to God's word, we just start to repeat our own experiences or our own cultural expectations. And so with this book, in a hundred different topics, topics you start to get a feel for. Okay, what. What kind of, are some main things that I need to know? What are some main scriptures that maybe apply to this area if I want to? You know, I could even see families. I just opened the book on my desk. Grief is one of the topics. There are about 10 pages just with key verses, key points, some checklists. It just starts to give us a language or a vocabulary. So if I'm caring for somebody that's going through grief, I may not be their everyday or weekly counselor, but I can give them good advice. Advice that's going to take them to the Lord and take them to his word and not just tell them, you know, maybe what my grandma Bonnie said to do when you have grief, which I think that would have been really good advice. But I'm just saying this is that kind of handbook that we can really start to practice what we preach. That the word of God is sufficient for the hope and the hurts that we experience.
Dr. Jessica Peck: The word of God is sufficient for the hope and the hurts we experience. I completely agree. I love sharing my granny's advice, too. Haley, it's great advice, but partnering it with the timeless truth of the unshakable foundation of the Word of God is so essential. And I'm so grateful for all that you're doing. I really cannot emphasize enough how much I think that everybody needs a copy of this because as you're counseling people, as people are coming to you, it really gives you tools from very accomplished professionals who use those gifts that God has given them to help you minister to those people who are in your sphere. The book is called the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of, biblical answers for 100 real life issues. We'll be right back with more from Haley Scully. See you on the other side of this break.
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Up + Up by Colton Dixon: Even though I walk through the valley? Sometimes it feels like a crawl through the valley But I got a promise that I hold on tight too? I can't lose when I'm right beside you, yeah God, I know the plans you have for me when my cup is overflowing so while I'm in the in between? I'mma live my life knowing if I get down, you pick me up from the ground? You give me love that don't give out, give in no condition you lift me up and up again now no matter who's around like a freight train, sunshine or rain
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That's up + up by Colton Dixon. And that's where we're going today. We're going up and up, giving you answers, some real biblical answers, and equipping you to share those biblical answers for real life issues. We're talking about the book, the care and counsel handbook, a quick reference guide of, biblical answers for 100 real life issues. I can just imagine this book on the bookshelf of a family in their home, and their teenager comes and they're struggling with something, and the parents pull this book down and they say, let's look this up. Let's talk about what does God say about anxiety? What does he say about fear? What does he say about grief, about forgiveness, about abuse? These aren't abstract concepts. These are really the daily realities that are weighing on us and the people that we love who are all around us. And so we're talking with Haley Scully today, who is a contributor to this book, exploring how God's word speaks directly into our personal challenges and how we can walk with others in their time of need with truth and compassion. Now, for some of these issues, you do need some professional help. And so I do want to encourage you to reach out to do that. We have had on, on the president of the American association of Christian Counselors and given lots of resources about that. And I would encourage you to, to, connect with a counselor if that's something that you need. But there are a lot of these issues that do not rise to the level of a clinical diagnosis or needing clinical treatment. But they do need wise counsel from those who are around us, from those people that we trust. And Haley, one of the things you and I were just talking about during the break, one of the things that holds us back is fear. We're really afraid to speak into somebody else's experience. We're afraid we'll say the wrong thing. And to be honest, that's. That's a real fear. You can say the wrong thing. You can say something that's harmful, and we're afraid, like, we. We don't know the right thing to say. We're afraid that we're going to, you know, intrude on their privacy or their space or that we'll look stupid. I mean, the. The fears go on and on and on. How do you see this book really equipping people in that moment, in that place of. Of fear to be able to share with confidence?
Haley Scully: I mean, that is one of the pushbacks that we hear all the time. What if I say the wrong thing? What if I don't know what the Bible says about this? What if I say the wrong thing? I was working with, kind of developing a women's, mentoring program at my home church in Oklahoma City, and that was one of the main things lady said, like, I don't know what to say. What do I, you know? So we are. This book represents actually 40 years of ministry, 40 years of June Hunt, our founder, who has been doing counseling on her radio programs for years. People know her as a really wise counselor. And this is the content that she's opening. And she's taking people to God's word in. So it is 40 years worse worth of, a system of approaching these everyday life issues. We look at the definitions, the characteristics, how is it displayed in your life, the causes. You know, you're not just failing because you're struggling with anxiety or fear. There are causes for those things. So when we can talk about that a little bit, people can understand, oh, this is why I struggle with this. It's just not. It's not just because I lack faith or it's not just because I don't know how to pray right for God to fix this. I have been through these experiences that have made me, led me to feel fear. And then in our resources, we kind of end with what steps to solution are there? What are some practical ways you can apply God's word? What are some practical things that you can start to put into practice when you're feeling whatever these emotions are?
The Care and Counsel Handbook aims to equip those who feel hopeless to help others
And then we also have, you know, you kind of mentioned people that are called to care. I mean, they have a heart, they want to help people. They're leading small groups, they're parenting. You know, they're stepping into these spaces. We also have a fully digital online training that we call our Foundations of Care And it really just walks people through. It's 10 different sessions, an 11 session about stress and burnout that really our heart is to equip all of those people that say, I feel hopeless to impact this situation. I see my kids struggling. I see my world struggling. I see my community struggling. I don't know what to say and I don't know where to start. So we not only start with the content, but then again, we have some incredible training that can help people feel, I like to say, confident and competent. And that means that not that you have all the answers, but that you know how to maybe take somebody to the help so that the Holy Spirit is then the one that's going to truly minister to them as you kind of come alongside them. So this resource, I always say the power is not in the Care Net and Counsel Handbook. We love and feel like God really called us to put this book together in a practical way that just like you said, can be reached down off of a bookshelf. But the power is in the word of God. And when God sees us reaching into that, when he sees us open this book knowing and believing that it's going to take us to his word, he responds to that. I've seen it over and over through our ministry. I've been here for 15 years, and I've just. I've got to see so many times, and even in my own life, how unlocking some of those pieces. A lot of us grow up in church. We. We know the motions, we love the Lord. We. We believe who he is. We just didn't necessarily learn. Where do I go in his word when I'm feeling really anxious and not feel condemned for feeling anxious? You know, some people say worry is a sin. Well, that is maybe a little bit harsh.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.
Haley Scully: I mean, okay, what do I do? What do I do? Now I'm worried and I think God's mad at me, you know, so, it's just picking those pieces apart and giving people just kind of a. A big concordance that can start to bring them some calm and some peace and a bit of structure to how to hope. Not just the theory of hope, but putting some legs on how to hope.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a great way to drive out fear and responding to someone, because as you said, I mean, this is built on 40 years of ministry. And to have all of those pearls, all of the wisdom, all of the lessons that God has imparted to you, to the. To June, to everybody who's been involved in the ministry and putting this. It's so wonderful to be able to have that resource right in our hands. And Haley, right next to my desk, I have a chair that is just always an open invitation for my kids to sit in. And I wanted to have them to have an invitation to my physical presence, you know, just to say, hey, you're always welcome to hang around if I'm working or if I'm doing something, you know, you're here. Well, they started calling it the counseling chair, Haley, because that's where we had a lot of conversations. And before I knew it, they were bringing kids home from school. Like, I'm putting the counseling chair there. And I can see this book, like, right there, just to open up, to guide, because as you said, I'm going to open up, you know, to the section on whatever it is that they're facing, whether that's addiction. But then we're going to point back to God's word. That's what this resource does. I think it would be a great resource, especially for youth group, for life group leaders, for people who are shepherding, a group of people who are able to point them to God's word and to know, like, how to navigate the resources that are there. I think that's just so important. And Haley, one of the issues. There's so many issues that are covered in this book. I mean, just like you said, over a hundred. and one of the issues that you talk a lot about is, is the singleness. And there's information in this book about relationships and dating and marriage and blended families and singleness. Can you walk us through that and talk about what does that look like from a biblical care and counsel perspective?
Haley Scully: Well, absolutely. So I am 49. I am. I'd like to jump ahead and just say I'm 50, but I've never been married. Singleness is part of my story. You know, I don't have kids. And so that's one of those life issues that a lot of people deal with, and that's part of their life story and don't necessarily know exactly how to apply those. The issues that single people may face. You know, as we're learning things in church or as we're. We're going through different lessons. So, you know, a lot of times people Will say, well, Jesus was single. And so you. That's supposed to be a gift that you have. You know, some people will say, things to try to encourage single people, but it's like, how do those of us that are single when. When marriages and family are a lot of the conversation in our churches, and rightly so, those are important things to talk about for. But for nearly half of adults the ages of 34 to about 64, according to recent research, are that identify as Christian are single adults, about 47%. Maybe they've never been married or they're widowed or divorced, but there's a lot of Christian adults who are not married. And so one of the ways that this book can be really helpful are the resources is, okay, I have issues that I need to talk through with the Lord. I may not necessarily be hearing about that in church. So where can I go and take my heart to him? Because just like you said, there are times where we need to go to professional counseling. And that's part of our foundations of care training, helps people understand that. When do we refer out, when do we make sure that we need to make sure that somebody gets to somebody that, that is trained to talk about what their needs are? But for a lot of us, it's everyday issues. It's loneliness, maybe it's decision making, maybe it is forgiveness or fear. There are a lot of emotions that we feel in relationship in relation to, you know, maybe our marriage status if we're single. but I just think that's a good example of a demographic that maybe doesn't go to counseling to address that, but also doesn't need to just people say, well, you need to sign up on a dating app and find somebody. You know, marriage isn't always the solution to our singleness questions. It's always about seeking God's heart. And I think for some of us, a, resource like this is a safe place to begin kind of coming before God and saying, you know what? God, God, I'm a little bit anxious about this. I'm worried about this. And maybe even I'm mad, maybe even I'm angry, God, that, that I've gotten to this stage in life and you didn't send me a spouse for whatever our concepts or our expectations of that were. So this is a resource that we can start to equip ourselves not just to help somebody else, but to kind of redirect what could be a wrong expectation of the blessing of God or a wrong expectation of the goodness of God. And I start to take my heart to him in my own home, and then start to let that conversation kind of grow out and maybe share and connect with others who are kind of having some of the same experiences. So I'm just saying it's a safe place. It's a safe place for a lot of us to ask some of our questions, organized in some of the specific issues that we might be dealing with.
One pivot that you can make here is really keeping the focus on that person experiencing something
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Haley, you said something earlier that was really, really important. And I want to make sure our listeners catch this. And you. And you just said it just now. You said that when we don't know what to say, when we feel fearful, when we feel insecure, when we feel anxious about giving someone an answer, talking them through something that they're going through, we revert back to our own experience. And I think that's really important for our listeners to catch here, because if you don't catch anything else from here, that can be. One pivot that you can make here is really keeping the focus on that person who is experiencing something. So I see this in singleness, just like you just described. So if some. If I'm not single and you're describing to me your experience of singleness, then I'm immediately going to frame that through my perspective. Join a dating app. Well, this is how I met my husband. He was on a blind date. Let me call somebody. Let me. Because your experience needs to be like my experience. And we do that even with grief, like, oh, you know, somebody experiences someone who passes away, and we start. The next thing we know, we're telling them about our Uncle Johnny's second cousins, you know, know, third, cousin twice removed, right. Who had the same experience, and this is what happened with them. And then all of a sudden, we just continue to take and put that. Put. I'm just having this vision of we're really pivoting and putting the attention on ourselves rather than not directing them inward or outward, but upward and directing them to the word of God and meeting them at their point of need. How can we be better at that, Haley, as a. As a people?
Haley Scully: Well, the thing that, the thing that I have found is we need to remember, and I try to remember. I am not the point of my story. You know, God is the point of every testimony. So that's why, you know, like, when you say, well, this happened to my cousin's uncle, it's not necessarily the specifics or, the details of what happened in your experience. It is the fact that God responded to whatever the situation was. Like, we can Seek God in our singleness. So, for instance, if I'm telling somebody I used to say I would. I was my own worst nightmare. If I was 30 years old and I heard a Christian woman that was 49 talking about being okay being single, I would have just, like, immediately turned it off because I did not want to be encouraged. Yeah, well, it's the truth. And I know there's a lot of. A lot of men and women that feel that way. And so I think just being honest about it when I share about my story, I feel at this point, I've wrestled with him. I mean, I've shared. Never having children is probably the biggest heartbreak of my life. It was a certainly a desire of my heart. It was certainly a hope I never even dreamed growing up and being with the Lord and serving him in ministry and that path leading to me not having children. And so having experienced and wrestled with him in that. If I tell that story to a young woman who is m. Right now at a different stage than I am, maybe late 20s or 30s or still hoping to find somebody in that, then I could kind of like you're saying, I could say, you'll be fine never having kids. You know, I could kind of overlay my story onto that. But the. The overlay that I would give them is that God does have a plan for your life. I believe that in scripture, he never just said, you know, hey, David, what do you want to do? You know, I'll bless it because you're a man after my own heart. He said, david, this is the way do this. Are, you. You know, is it a yes or is it a no? Because he always had a plan. So it's like, when we step into that, the encouragement that I give to somebody is not that you'll be okay if you get to 49 and ever have kids or don't get married. It's that if that God is with you and seek him first.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, that's so good. I hate to stop there. Listen so much more with Haley Scully Don't miss the ending right on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part, too. Was she on a ship Oh No, she stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war, and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies and I'll tell you all about it.
Mighty to Save by Michael W. Smith: Everyone needs compassion A Love that's never failing Let mercy fall on me Everyone needs forgiveness the kindness of a savior the hope of nations yeah, everyone Savior he can move the mountains Our God is mighty to save he is mighty to save Forever Author of salvation He rose and conquered the grave Jesus conquered the grave welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That that is mighty to save by Michael W. Smith. And that takes me back a little bit. But, you know, I can think of standing in church at very specific times in my life where I was facing really significant trials and to be able to sing those words that come from Zephaniah, Chapter three. The Lord your God is in your midst A mighty one who will save he will rejoice over you with gladness he will quiet you by his love he will exalt result over you with loud singing. That is the kind of care and counsel that the Lord offers to us. And what you are being offered today is a reflection of that care and counsel through an incredible resource. I think every church should have it. Every church leader should have it. Every family should have it. It is called the Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real life issues. And instead of trying to rely on our own wisdom, rely on our own strength to be able to meet the questions that our kids have today, the questions that are in our own hearts about some things that are really, really tough. I mean, we are talking about things that people are walking through that we could never imagine. Pain and suffering and heartbreak and tragedy and trial. But God has inspired these ministry leaders to put this resource in their hands. This to you from Hope for the Heart. And I hope that you will be intentional in offering care and counsel to those around you who are hurting and need that. In a world where we have a mental health crisis at epidemic levels, the church in particular is uniquely positioned to be a refuge of hope. And I see churches talking about issues like they haven't talked about before and meeting real people with real needs in real time. But there is too often that I see pastors or leaders or parents or just everyday Christians who want to do the right thing, but we just feel like we're not Equipped to respond well when people are hurting. And I hope you've been encouraged by Haley Scully and her devotion to her ministry in equipping us to listen well and to care wisely and most importantly, to respond to biblical truth. And, Haley, before the break, you were just sharing so tenderly, so vulnerably, so authentically your own journal. A journey of singleness. And one of the things you and I were talking about during the break is that it feels like everyone carries some part of their story that they wishes weren't part of their story. I very rarely meet people who think, you know, this is how I grew up. This was exactly the things that I wanted to go. And everything in my life has gone right, and I haven't thought, faced anything that's taken me off. We all have a part of our story that we carry that maybe we wish wasn't a part. Maybe it was within our control, maybe it wasn't within our control. But you were just sharing that so. So well. And what. What are the inner needs that connect us all, Haley? All that all people share, how they. They connect to the struggles that we see today, no matter what that struggle is.
Haley Scully: I think it's a great perspective for people to have that want to help others. In our ministry, we talk about three inner needs being the need for love, for significance, and for security. And a lot of our motivations in relationship and in decisions, they kind of come from our need to secure those three inner needs. We don't always recognize it. It's not like we say, I understand that I'm making this decision because I feel insecure and unsafe, and I'm needing to feel secure and safe. Safe. But it is allowing us to just. I, always say, do a little gut check, do a heart check. Why am I feeling this way? Why is this the decision that I'm making? If I can realize I am loved by God? He fills that need. I have significance because he sees me. He created me. I can lean into my strengths. I don't need to compete or compare with somebody else's to try to. To gain the significance that I see them having. I need to lean into my creator and say, how did you make me? What are my giftings? What should I be doing? Because our significance is promised by Him. And then our security. how do we define security? Well, in my experience growing up, a lot of security came in marriage, came in family. And some of those things have not been my experiences. So what do I anchor my security to? Sometimes that can make us get into relationships that aren't healthy, or take jobs that aren't necessarily the best fits for us because we're trying to be our own shelter and our own shade. So when we can help people understand, you are loved, you are significant, you are secure. I said to myself, I mean, these are things that I have to learn. And I've had opportunity to walk out here, but, man, the freedom to have those locked up. Help me make healthy relationship decisions, help me make healthy job choices, help me not worry about my future that normally for me would m be defined by the care of children and grandchildren. And I look ahead and don't necessarily see that at this point in my life, that could make me feel destabilized. So. So it's just doing the gut check, doing a heart check, and then maybe having a resource of saying, where do I go to find God's word on this heart issue that I'm hurting with? Because here's the thing, we. A lot of times we will stuff those issues. If I just stuffed some of my disappointment in singleness, well, for one, then I would maybe not tell people that I was open to them introducing me to a friend if they, if somebody came to mind, mind, you know, I am open to that. But I would stuff it if I was embarrassed again, you know, whatever the issue is grief or, or shame or guilt, if we stuff those things, then we're less likely to allow God to heal them, to bring them before him and say, this is where my hurt is. God, what does your word say? And through the power of your spirit, help me to feel free of this. I think that is our opportunity in Christ. And a lot of times, like I said, I grew up in church, but I didn't necessarily know how to walk that out, you know, or how to apply his Word right where I was hurting. But every morning, Jessica, we wake up at a new well. We wake up at a new well of opportunity of maybe some disappointment or some concern. And that, well, Jesus wants to meet us every morning and say, here's your. Here's the heart need. You were loved. So whatever the situation is, we can wake up to him, take it to him. And I think resources like this are kind of the tangible way that people can start to actually practically walking out, applying God's word to our everyday lives. I grew up in church. I loved him since I was a little girl. My salvation was secure. But that freedom and abundance in life that Jesus says that he came for, those were things that I think some of us don't learn. We just stuff and move on, but we've got a savior that wants to heal us and set us free. And so we hope as a ministry that's been June hunt's calling for 40 years, as she has counseled people and those of us that are on the team now. It's our calling to continue to teach people to let that sink into their hearts and sink into how they relate to God and how they relate to one another. Other.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, Amen to all of that, because it just reminds me of the scripture. The thief comes to steal and kill and destroy, but Jesus came that we may have life and have it to the fullest. And I think so often we can fall in the trap of just trying to, you know, just kind of get by and accepting mediocre and accepting that, well, this is just the way that things are. And so you just have to accept it and move on. And I think, think finding joy in that. You even talk, I see in your bio, about thriving in that singleness and whatever that is, that anybody is walking through that part of their story that they feel like, I, wish that wasn't part of my story. I've shared, you know, I wish that emotional. I wish that relational brokenness wasn't part of my story. But how do I, how do I find joy even when that circumstance doesn't shift? And I think that's really what you're getting at, Haley, because, because from our human perspective, when people share something that they're going through, whether it be singleness and however they view that, or infertility or addiction or grief or self harming or anxiety or whatever other of the hundred things that are in this book, instead of us trying to say, oh, how do we fix your situation? Like, maybe you should talk to somebody. Maybe you should, you should write your mom a letter. You know, you should, you know, go to this, this group or go see this therapist. Like, we just try to just fix the circumstances instead of focusing on the heart. And that's why I really appreciate how you brought up those three inner needs. It's all about refocusing it back to God and remembering that he is the ultimate author of our story. And he who began a good work will be faithful to complete it. And that's where the freedom is. We don't have to micromanage every circumstance. So how does the book have help pull people in that direction?
Haley Scully: Well, just, just giving us a common language, you know, because this, this book are the quick reference guides of actually fuller books on all of these topics.
Haley: Depression doesn't have to be completely scary
So still, you know, our, our Book on grief, for instance, or on decision making. It may be 100, 150 pages. It's going to be filled with checklists. So you can always go a little bit deeper on these issues. But I think just kind of like, okay, this is where I can start. This is where I begin. I begin to acclimate myself to the conversation. It's not completely unknown. Depression doesn't have to be completely scary. Anxiety doesn't have to be something that we're worried about saying the wrong thing. We can begin to kind of equip ourselves. You know, sometimes I'll talk about a recipe. If. If we're. If we want lasagna for dinner, we got to buy all the ingredients, right? It doesn't just happen. And I feel like if we want to have lives that are free, then this is one of the ingredients that we could start to pull into truths. You know, wrong beliefs, Right beliefs, good scripture, memory, verse, practical checklists and steps to be able to rightly define what it is that we're dealing with. Some people may say, I'm depressed, but if we actually kind of look at what the symptoms are that they're experiencing, they're actually angry. They're actually so mad about something, and they are pressed down. But anger may be part of, you know, hurt, fear, injustice, frustration. There may be something else that's going on that we need to get to the root of that we're defining as, depression. Well, so we start dealing with the symptoms of depression when what we need to get to is the injustice or the fear or the frustration that they're experiencing. So just kind of flipping the light switch on topics that we deal with every day, but we don't necessarily know how to talk about or how to help. I think this helps to open us up to hope. Like I said, it's when God sees us reaching out for hope, man, he reaches down for us. You know, he reaches to lift us up out of those pits that we find ourselves in. And it's just been an honor in this ministry to be a part of unlocking those doors for people for. For many, many years.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley. I have definitely learned that about the Lord. And walking with him I have seen in my life over and over. He is so gracious to give me far beyond what I could. What exceeds, beyond what I could ever ask or imagine. A little tiny bit of effort, a little mustard seed of faith. God blesses abundantly, and I have found that. So let that encourage you as you're thinking, okay, I want to start in this Direction. Because, Haley, I believe, I really believe with all my heart that there are church leaders listening here today who are feeling their heart stirred, thinking we need to move more in this direction. We need to give more of this practical support. Yes, you can talk about it from the pulpit, but we need more practical supports. Can you tell them where to go for hope for the heart and about the resources that you have there, there?
Haley Scully: Yeah. Go to hopefortheheart.org now. This book is available anywhere. Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, anywhere that you buy books. The care and counsel handbook is there. And like I said, if. If our ministry were a huge iceberg, this is just a little piece that's sticking out of the water is this book. This is what acclimates people to kind of understanding what we have. Then if they, this is a perfect handbook. If they want to drill down on a specific topic, we have additional books, additional video content, and then one piece that, like I said, we're really excited about. We don't want to just be in the business of dropping books off in people's hands. We want to help people understand how to do this. Because when you raise your hand and say, I will help, I'm going to lead people to God's word, there's a bit of a target, you know, and so we want to help people know how to care for others. Well, so our foundations of care training, that digital training that's online, that's how you could prepare your church groups. There's a self study for all of those of us that maybe want to go through it ourselves. There's a group study. If you wanted to take your church leaders through it, it really prepares the heart of the person to know that they don't fix people, they don't fix problems. When do you refer? How do you ask good questions? What is the call in scripture to even counsel and care for people? So it really helps us kind of get right, get our hearts right so that we don't get overwhelmed and taken off course. And then the content is there. So we want to equip the person with the right heart and then equip them with the right content to help themselves and help.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Haley, God bless you and thank you so much for sharing today your story, this research, and we know that script scripture offers hope for the personal struggles that we face. And I pray that as you provide care and counsel to those you love, that the Lord would bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, and I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Haley Scully, Sr. Vice President of Hope for the Heart, joins Jessica to talk about THE CARE AND COUNSEL HANDBOOK and sharing biblical answers for real-life issues.
Rx for Hope: Share Biblical Answers for Real-Life Issues
https://www.hopefortheheart.org/
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