Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And I've got a big dose of it for you. Today we're going to talk about something that, that's tough, but something that pretty much everybody is either going to go through or know someone who's going to go through. And we're talking about cancer journeys today. We're talking about how to trust God, carry you through your story. So many times people are shocked by a cancer diagnosis. It's a devastating word. And in fact, in my nursing practice in pediatrics, people, parents call it C, the big C, because it's so scary to even say it out loud. And whether it's your own diagnosis or someone you love, hearing those words, hearing that C word, that cancer word, it honestly changes everything. In the United States alone, nearly one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. It halts normal life in its tracks. It automatically changes your perspective. It forces difficult choices, it brings on overwhelming emotions, and you are faced with a barrage of life altering medical decisions right there in the moment. But right in the middle of that fear and uncertainty, there are voices of hope. And my guest today, her name is Kim Harms. She is a two time breast cancer survivor, she's an author, she's an advocate, and she has walked this road personally and alongside others. And her book we're talking about today, Carried Through Cancer is what we're talking about. And it's, it is 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. And there are, there's her own experience in there, there is research that she's done and dozens of real stories to remind you that you are never alone and that God meets you in the very heart of your suffering. And so today, before we start, I, just want to say, if you are going through a cancer journey, know that we are praying for you. We are praying God would intervene in that situation and that he would meet every need. And we pray that he will bring you to trust him to carry you through that story. And I also do want to give a shout out to all of the healthcare providers who are taking care of patients with cancer now. in my long career of teaching, I've taught in cancer hospitals and mostly in pediatric cancer, which is just absolutely devastating. But you know what? Every time I walk in and out of that hospital, I see healthcare providers who inspire me every single day, who give daily doses of hope in the face of utter hopelessness, who make that journey a little bit easier. And so to those of you who work in that field, please accept my thanks on behalf of everyone, my esteem, my admiration, my appreciation for the ministry that you have. And Kim, thank you for joining us today and sharing your own story. As I shared with you before this show, I know you've shared this story so many times, but it is still difficult to share a journey of cancer. But I'm so grateful for your courage, your transparency, your authenticity, and helping other people to know that they're not alone. Thanks for joining us.
Kim Harms Well, thank you very much to help me. And you're right, it's a hard thing to talk about sometimes, but, but that's where God has me and he's good. So we talk about it.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's right. Because, you know, it's like I said, either you. Everyone who's listening either has had a cancer journey or knows who has had a cancer journey. And you may know someone kind of peripherally, or you may know someone or have even lost someone very, very close to you. Cancer has touched my family, and, you know, I have very, very dear friends who have had very, very difficult battles. And it is. It is tough to have a front row seat to it. I can't even imagine what it's like to be that patient. And so I would love for you to take us back to your diagnosis and just walk us through what you. What that looks like and how your cancer journey began.
Kim Harms Sure. yeah. I was first diagnosed when I was 40. Actually. I was diagnosed one month to the day after my 40th birthday. And it was quite shocking. I actually discovered a lump myself, and went in and my doctor said I was pretty young. It's probably not cancer, but, you know, let's check and let's make sure you're okay. And, it ended up that I had, breast cancer. And I remember getting the phone call from my doctor and just getting off of the phone, excuse me. and just collapsing into my husband Corey's arms and just saying, I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. And that was. That was day one. and it was, it was hard. It was a hard adjustment. and just your life, really, as you said at the beginning, it just, it changes it's shocking and there's so many things, so many decisions that need to be made and, and so many appointments and things you need to do and everything happens just so quickly. It just a barrage. and so that's, that's how it started. My first diagnosis. I was diagnosed at stage one. So the first time I had cancer, I, I didn't have to go through chemotherapy, radiation, some of those tough things. I had a bilateral mastectomy and then had reconstruction surgery and then was on hormone thera for several years. and kind of, you know, I got past, got past. You don't really get past cancer. But I got back to a normal, to a normal place in life. And then, seven years after my first diagnosis, I discovered another lump, and took, me right back. and it was a little more advanced the second time. And so I did end up going then through. I had surgeries again. I had. That went through 16 rounds of chemotherapy, lost all my hair. so I'm very thankful to have my hair back. and then went through radiation and am on ongoing, therapies. Just because once you've had cancer twice, you kind of get moved over into this high risk category. So they watch me pretty closely and I'm still doing things, but it's, it's. I'm living a normal life with just a few little extra things that I'm doing. So that's.
Dr. Jessica Peck I hear the emotion in your voice even now, and it is, it's so, it's so scary. And I think in those first days and everyone's cancer journey is different, but sharing from your own personal journey in those first days, you know, you describe collapsing in your husband's arm, his arms, and just that barrage of information. And I think as the news spreads, because I'm sure you, you wonder that, like, do I tell people? Do I not tell people? If I do tell people, how do I tell people? And then people on the other side of that are wondering, what do I say? And I'm sure they come up and it's the sympathetic head tilt and they want to be compassionate, but they don't want to say the wrong thing. So some people just don't say anything. Some people might avoid you. Some people might be, you know, really just like all of a sudden, I'm, going to live with you and I'm going to cook for you. All of those things.
Kim says it's hard to tell people when you're diagnosed with cancer
Walk us through those two sides of it. You sharing that and what you learned from how to share your diagnos and what would be helpful for people in that support system to know how to respond.
Kim Harms Sure. Yeah. One thing that was very hard and very surprising that you don't think about when you're not in it. But, you know, I get this diagnosis and my heart gets broken, and then it feels like I have to break everyone else's heart. So you have to make those phone calls. You have to call your mom, you have to tell your children, you have to tell your siblings, your friends. And it's just like, over and over, you're. You're making this phone call and you're breaking someone's heart. And it almost feels like you have to comfort the people that you're telling. and I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's a hard thing, because these people love you very much. So of course their hearts are going to break. it's a caring thing that's happening, but it's. It's really hard to be the person that has to tell everybody. so that. That was a little bit shocking and hard to me. I did have a dear friend who I, told all and my husband told people that were really in our close circle. And then some of those people in the close circle got the assignment of telling people, maybe friends that we aren't as close to, so we didn't have to do all of that. But that was, that was very hard. and then you're right on the other side of it. Cancer makes people uncomfortable. I have a friend, a fellow cancer survivor, and she has this shirt that says, don't make weird. And that is so perfect, because cancer makes people weird if they haven't been exposed to it. They don't know what to say to you, or they say completely inappropriate things to you. they try to comfort you, but in it, they're really not being comforting at all. And I had to learn to have grace for people, because prior to me being diagnosed with cancer, cancer made me uncomfortable. I had a friend whose daughter was diagnosed, 10 years maybe or more before I was diagnosed. And I look back and I think, man, was I a very good friend to her. I didn't know what to do. And so I feel like I didn't do enough. and so I try to remind myself, okay, that person that just said that really stupid thing was really trying to be comforting. They were doing the best they could. so having that perspective has helped. When, when people do get weird because they do.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Kim, that's really convicting, honestly, because I hadn't thought about that. The. The burden that you almost feel to comfort someone when you're telling them and giving them that bad news, but then also feeling like you have to have grace for people who are well intentioned but, you know, hurtful nonetheless, that's really convicting.
Kim says it's hard to know what to say when diagnosed with cancer
What do you think? What words of advice would you give for people who know someone in their circle who's been diagnosed with cancer? What are some things that you would say? Do not say this or say or do this. What's the best way to approach that situation? Besides, I love that. Buying a T shirt that says don't make this weird. I love that.
Kim Harms Yes. Yes. I would say one of the things that really surprised me, and you wouldn't think people do this, but it happened very regularly to me, is people find out, and then they say, oh, my aunt's sister died of that cancer. And I. I don't know why they do that. I feel like maybe they're saying, well, this at least you're not dying. I don't know. But that happened. Don't do that. don't. What I would suggest is, empathy. But try not to help and try not to do the trite little comments of everything happens for a reason. Well, even if everything does happen for a reason, it doesn't feel. Feel good for you to tell me that right now. I'm praying for you. That's awesome. can I hug you? That's awesome. can I, Can I help you? A lot of people ask that. and which is great, but if there's a specific thing you can say, like, if, you know, this person really likes, caramel lattes, can you say, can I bring you a caramel latte tomorrow morning? Something specific like that? those are. Those are better things. And you don't have to have the perfect thing to say. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And even saying, I don't know what to say, but I'm sorry. those are. Those are good things to say, Kim.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's really helpful because I think we just don't think. And, you know, we're trying. Like you said, most people are trying to be helpful. It's really hard, you know, to know what to say. And I think a lot of times in situations like this, it's almost like we feel like when we're hearing. When we're hearing the news. I'm just saying, as, someone who hears the news of cancer, all Of a sudden, it's like this spiritual pop quiz. Like, do you know the right comforting thing to say? Do you know the right scripture? Are you going to respond appropriately? And you're desperately trying to measure up to that test, but you just can't because nothing prepares you for that moment. So I think the words of advice that you've given are really, really helpful. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. Can I bring you a caramel? And can I pray for you? Those things are really important. And if you can just start with those, just say, I'm so sorry. Can I pray for you? And I encourage you as my listeners to pray right then on the spot. There's so often I'm really trying to adopt this habit in my life where I'll say, like, oh, I'll pray for you. Like, and then I follow that up with right now. And sometimes that can feel uncomfortable, but I think there is never a prayer wasted. And I, you know, I have not had a cancer child journey, but I have been with many who have. And sitting on the other side of that, I have never had someone with cancer say, no, I don't want you to pray for me. I know that happens, and I know that could happen. But I'm saying most people with cancer will appreciate those prayers and, and take them very much. Well, Kim, we're just getting started. We have a lot more to talk about. I really want to talk about your marriage and what that was like and going through a cancer journey because that can be radically altered. And most importantly, I want to talk about your faith and where you saw God in unexpected places. And a cancer journey, a health crisis, any kind of trauma, tragedy or trial, it tends to really refine your faith in ways that it didn't before when you have a before and an after. We'll be right back with more from Kim Harms She's an author, a speaker, a, ah, cancer survivor, and authored of the devotional carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. You know, someone going through a cancer journey who needs this encouragement in their hands. I pray that you'd be bold, put feet to your faith and get a copy of the book and just give it to them with the words. I thought this might encourage you. We'll be right back.
Preborn's network of clinics provide hope, love, free ultrasounds
On the other side of this break, finally some Good news. Over 38,000 babies saved and more than 4,000 commitments to Christ through the ministry of preborn this year alone. Here's Dan Steiner, president of preborn.
Dan Steiner But if we can get a mom into one of our clinics and show her her baby and she has that, close encounter of the best kind in her womb, she will choose life.
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Promises by Maverick City Music ft. Joe L. Barnes & Naomi Raine And faithful promises time and time again you have proven you do just what you said? Though the storms may come and the winds may blow I'll remain steadfast and let my heart learn? When you speak a, word it will come to pass Great is your faithfulness to me Great is your faithfulness to me from the rising sun to the setting same I will praise your name Great is your faithfulness to me
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is promises by maverick city music. And I don't know what you're going through today. I imagine many of you out there are going through something. Through a trial, through a trauma, through a tragedy, through something unexpected and frankly, unwelcome. And many times, for many people, that is a cancer journey. And when we listen to a song like promises, it can be hard to say, great is your faithfulness to me. But here's the truth. Truth. God didn't promise you that you would never get cancer, but he did promise to never leave you or forsake you. And whether it's your own journey or the journey of someone you know, everyone can learn something from my guest today. A, cancer diagnosis feels like being tossed into chaos. Your life is just turned upside down. I have been in the exam room so many times when people get a cancer diagnosis, and it is devastating every single time. And you see all of the appointments, the surgeries, the treatment schedules, but then there's the emotions, the family, the life that goes on around that. How does life go on when your life feels like it's being threatened? But here's the truth. Cancer may make you feel isolated, but you are not alone. God promised to never leave you and never forsake you. And I'm talking today to author Kim harms. She knows this firsthand, and she is sharing her own cancer journey so beautifully, so authentically, so transparently and she is a survivor of two breast cancer battles. And she shares raw, honest stories and faith filled encouragement to guide women and families through the uncertainty of all of that that is going through a, cancer diagnosis. Women and Men. Her book carried through cancer 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers can open the door to conversations that many people are afraid to have about some of the issues that are going on. So I pray that if you know someone going through a cancer journey or you're going through your own journey yourself, that you'll get a copy of this encouragement m that God has written on Kim's heart. And so Kim, thank you again for sharing your story. I, I, I can't say it enough. I know it's not easy, but it is such a gift to us and I'm grateful for before the break, we were talking all about the things that happen and the way your relationships change and the way that people respond. And I want to go back to your husband because you talked about falling into his arms when you first learned of your first diagnosis. What is that like? Because it's hard on marriage, that kind of health journey, especially a cancer journey. What have you learned and what encouragement would you give about fighting for your marriage alongside fighting cancer?
Kim Harms yeah, it's, it is very, hard. I would say, going through cancer brought my husband and I closer. Like we have a better relationship now than we did prior to cancer. We're closer because we had to battle through things and we had to think about what would life be like for him if I wasn't here. You know, just things that you don't necessarily want to think about, but they're in your face. And so, so yeah, I would say the diagnosis and going through treatment brought us closer in that we, we did this together. And he is such a servant. Like he just took really good care of me, on the nights that I was like not able to sleep. I remember being up in the middle of the night on the recliner and we were watching episodes, old episodes of MASH for hours, just things like that. But he, he was wonderful and through the whole journey. But we did struggle to, I think what happens is you're diagnosed with cancer and you still have all the normal stressors of your life. But then this cancer like just boosts your regular stress level up. So you are always living under a certain amount of stress. And we found living under that and then having the diagnosis, having all of these appointments, having all of these decisions that needed to be made these, like, life altering decisions. while you're thinking about your mortality and you're like, oh, I, I need to, I need to decide that, like, how do you do this? as we were going through that, I, we didn't realize it at the time, but we started to kind of, I mean, we, we didn't realize why at the time, I should say, we started kind of butting heads on things. And, we realized later that we had all these decisions to make. And I was, I was making, I was making these decisions and I was not including him in my thought process or in, like, we weren't talking back and forth on, on the different options the doctors would give us. I would just say, hey, I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And he wouldn't necessarily have wanted me to do anything different than I chose, but I learned that, that it kind of hurt his feelings being left out of it. He felt like he was on the periphery. And, and that was hard for him. And then it was also hard for him. I think when you have someone in your family who has cancer, that person gets all the attention. And my husband's not selfish at all. Not saying that he is at all, but everyone wants to help you. And they are providing so much support and so much energy and they get, they don't get all the support that you don't do. They don't get the gifts dropped off at the door. They don't, you know, they're, they're. It's kind of a thankless position in a lot of ways. And so I think just all of that, it, it caused some stress in our marriage that really, honestly, it came to a head one night. We were, we were going out to eat, to Johnny's Steakhouse, which is our, like, restaurant we go to as a treat to celebrate things. And we ended up arguing on the way there. And we were sitting in the parking lot of this restauran and we are both bawling, and we're like, should we even go in there? Like, should we even go in there and eat or should we just drive home? And we like, pulled it together and we're like, you know what? We're going to figure this out. We're going to get through it. What we're going to do is we're going to go in there and we are just going to enjoy this night and not think about this thing we're struggling with right now. And we did it it was hard, but we did it. and we did. We worked through those things, and, we are better for it. I. I used to be a person who would bottle everything up. I'm not really an external processor. and I wouldn't share things with him. And now it's like when we're forced to learn how to do that, we communicate so much better than we used to. Not perfect at all, but that force. Healthy some things about relationships.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, well, it is.
Many men just want to fix it when their wives have a cancer diagnosis
I'm so glad that you brought that up because, the thought of the caregiver not getting kind of the same level of attention that the patient has, and we see this, I. This a lot with children who have cancer or chronic illness. Their siblings, you know, often are forgotten because, you know, just that person who's sick consumes so much energy, and that's where our mental energy is and our emotional energy and all of our physical energy. And I think it's really important to. To look at those kind of roles of. Of husband and wife, because many times, speaking broadly, many men just want to fix it, and they can't fix it when their wives have a cancer diagnosis. And. And if the shoe is on the other foot, I see many wives who just want to be the best caret. Men who are not accustomed to being cared for and are used to being the caretaker in their family or not needing that level of care, it can be really hard. And, regardless of however you deal with it, with your personality, your temperament, you know, however God has made your marriage, you need to invite other people in there to help you. And I know I've seen this with very dear friends who have had cancer journeys, especially for that caregiver, that spouse who was sitting by the hospital bed, you know, just night after night after night, who maybe needs to go home and see the kids and take a shower and have a night they're not sleeping on a couch. It's hard to invite people into those spaces. Because when you're talking about a cancer journey, Kim, you know much better than I that we're talking about the. We're talking about humanity here. We're talking about getting sick. We're talking about incisions and surgeries and medical things that can make people really uncomfortable. And it can be hard to invite people in or even to let people in who are inviting themselves in. How did you see that external support system helping to stabilize your family? What did you learn about boundaries, about where to put them down and where to put them up?
Kim Harms yeah, we did. You. You kind of learn after a diagnosis like this, you kind of get your core group of like oh these are my people. And there's a lot, there's, there's like different levels of support systems. It almost feels like and thankfully in that I did have a group of just close knit friends who we had an ongo going just text thread throughout my first, my first fight and and they were awesome in supporting me. and my husband thankfully at that, at that time he was an elder within our church and he was able to really lean on some of those other guys that they had prayer meeting every week together and had a couple other friends who came along and supported him and that is very helpful and I think for a lot of men they, I, Corrie thankfully had more of a support system than I think a lot men do have because having people speak into his life. So I'm very thankful for that. but you say having to put walls up with people we, you had to learn like who, who, who's your core group they're going to share everything with and then who, who's kind of that next level that are like oh these people, what can they do for me? Oh, have, have them bring me meals like you. You kind of have different levels of, of help and support. And man, I, if, if you're a person out there who is, has a loved one with cancer, I'd say figure out where you're at in that. In, in the realm of that. What's the best way you can support that person? Are you a person where you can you know, drop off the, the latte or drop off a meal or are you a person who needs to really step up and be like okay, I'm spending the night with you in the hospital tonight Corrie can go home and be with the kids. because all of that. but certain people are better suited for certain things than others I guess. If that makes sense.
Dr. Jessica Peck It absolutely does. And then thinking about your children and all of this, you have three boys who were young when you were diagnosed and I read in your bio that you, you have a dog who thinks he's your kid too. So that's, that's so funny. But it's hard. I can't imagine what it was like to, to walk them through this because you want, I imagine you think in your mind how you want to respond and how you want to support them. But you have physical limitations and honestly you have emotional limitations too just because of the journey that you're going through, how did you share this with them and how did you see this impact their faith?
Kim Harms yeah, the first diagnosis, sharing the, with the kids. I mean, I can, I can remember where everyone was sitting in the living room and I can remember their reactions. And it was very hard. I couldn't speak. Corrie had to do that that night. and we, my boys don't cry a lot, but there are tears for sure that night, which it's, it's so hard. and they're, they're scared then like you are and you don't want your kids to be scared. You want to protect your kids. So yes, telling them was very hard. but it did, obviously they have to walk through this with you and if they can see that you are leaning into your faith. Jesus does not leave us when things are hard. In fact, he comes so close and I wanted my kids to see that. Like, of course I'm sad they're going to see me cry. I'm scared they can see these emotions. But I was like, I want them to see that Jesus is here. so in the future when they have other hard things in their life, which certainly they will, right? Breast cancer, of course is very common. At some point going to have a friend or a sister in law or you know, a mother in law, somebody they know, excuse me, that's going to have cancer. And so I wanted to be able to, help them through that and guide them toward Jesus so that when this comes again, and for us it did come again, right? I had it a second time that they can look back and say, oh, oh look what, look what God did for us last time. Why would he not do that this time too? so that was kind of my, my hope. It was all really hard. but man, we had some good, good times in that too because we focused on the good. and another thing I did was just try to keep their lives normal. We don't need to drop and stop everything because I have cancer. I can, if I'm feeling okay, I can go watch your basketball games and we will get people to get you to practice and you can still go to youth. so try to stay as normal as possible, while walking through a very non normal thing.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's really helpful because I'm thinking about what you said earlier about if you know someone who has a cancer journey, kind of figuring out where do I fit in their ecosystem, what gifts do I have, what resources do I have that I could offer to them specifically and So I think often, especially for kids, when there are kids involved. Exactly what you said, Kim. Just keeping things as normal as possible, as much as possible, while also knowing that nothing seems normal. But just having those routines like yes, you can get to basketball practice and yes you can go to church on Wednesday nights and yes, we'll have taco Tuesdays or whatever that is, that can be really helpful to speak into that and just to say, hey, can I take, you know, we're going, we're on the same sports team, can I pick up your kid for practice? And that can just be a normal thing. All of those little gestures of kindness, all of those little gestures of normalcy and maintaining the schedule that literally builds kids brain for resilience. And so I think sometimes people who are on the outside of a cancer journey who want to help, they want to fix it and they think, well what, what is that? You know, I, I brought tacos on Tuesday. How is that helping? That is literally helping build their brains for resilience. And it's showing them the hands and feet of Christ. It's showing them that faithfulness that's helping them to not feel alone, to know that God will never leave us or forsake us. And again, the book is called carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual Strength from Cancer Fighters, Survivors and Caregivers by Kim Harms. When we come back, we'll take a deep dive into the faith element of this. Where is God in that cancer journey? We'll talk about that when we come, come back. There is someone you know who needs to get a copy of this devotional and I pray that you will gift it to them. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon
During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television. One man saw the battle coming. If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. And he chose to stand and fight. If you will not respect our beliefs, then you will respect our money and we'll spend it with somebody else. Reverend Wildmon. Reverend Wildmon. The Reverend Donald Wildmon. Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. Things were changing and many people just sort of acclimated to it. And Don Wildmon didn't. They thought, I think that they could just crush him. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today. For free visit culturewarrior.movie
The Cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin Who told you grace can't reach the messed up ones like you has the devil made you believe the lies he tells are true? When you're sure that you're the one who's wandered too far off it's not too late Just come home to the. Cross. Come see the Savior's love that would die to make you new Nothing you have ever done can change what mercy's done for you and if you ever wonder if you are so great it comes look up and see the.
Dr. Jessica Peck Cross welcome back friends. That is the cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin. And that is a message of hope for those of you who are going through a journey, whatever it is that you're going through.
Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families
Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families. I have seen it professionally and personally and had a front row seat to some excruciating journeys. It is devastating. And you can wonder, where is God in all of that? Where is God in a cancer journey? And my guest today, Kim Harms, is someone who has lived it, who has asked that question, who has seen God work. And she has written a devotional. It comes out September 30th. It's available for pre order so you can order it now and give it to someone you know who needs it. Just giving them that little bit of encouragement from someone who has walked that road. It is so different when you meet somebody who has walked in those shoes. And I've seen this from a clinical standpoint. It is an amazing thing to watch when you see someone that you know has experienced a cancer journey, meets another person who has also walked that road, and then all of a sudden they start talking in a language that you don't understand. They speak in emotions and shared emotions that you don't see and don't feel. There is something so encouraging about having someone in the same boat. And whether you're walking a cancer journey yourself or whether you are walking alongside someone, everyone can learn something today about how we can best support people who are walking through that kind of trial and how we can be the hands and feet of Christ to them, how we can carry one another's burdens and in so doing fulfill the law of Christ and keep Kim I do see people ask that question all the time. Where is God in that cancer journey? Because you know he could intervene. And you see people who are healed and you may pray for healing and that's not your journey. And everyone's journey is different.
Did you have a struggle with your Faith during your cancer journey
Did you have a struggle with your Faith. And where did you. What did you learn about God in your cancer journey?
Kim Harms Yeah, I don't know. I don't. I wouldn't say that I ever struggled with my faith that I ever had. I never really went through the why me, God? Why me? but that's not saying it wasn't really hard. And there weren't days that, I mean, I didn't. Obviously didn't want it to happen. I wanted him to answer some of my prayers differently than he did. I. I do remember the second diagnosis when I. When I was diagnosed. The second time I did have, have a conversation with God while I was on my knees in my bedroom and bawling. that was like, I don't want to die. Please, m. Please let me live. and I know you're not supposed to make deals with God, but I said, if you let me live, I won't be ashamed of you. not that I was ashamed of him before, but. But it was harder to speak about my faith in him. And so I said, I'll do chemo. I'll do whatever it is. Just let me live so I can tell people my story. and he did that. And, And I'm so thankful for that. So that. That is, That's God answering a prayer in a. In a strange way, right? I. I. Before that, I had. I had asked him if this lump could not be cancer. and I didn't get that answer. But he. He answers in hard ways sometimes, but he's. He's always there. and when I look back, I think, okay, he. That happened. He's allowed this because he wanted to do this. and, Not that I want to go through cancer again. Not that that it was something I would ever ask for, but I am in a place now where I could not have been if I hadn't walked through this really awful stuff.
Dr. Jessica Peck I mean, Kim, that. So real and so raw and. And just so human. And I look back at the prayers that were prayed in the Bible. You're making me emotional here. But you say you're not supposed to make deals with God. Well, there were plenty of people in the Bible who definitely did that. And we see God's grace in that, right? Like we. Gideon asking for the fleece to be dry. No. Can it be wet? No.
Dr. Jessica Peck Okay, well, how about this? Show me a sign. I mean, we see that human, that humanness of just, you know, our. Our humanity. And I. I think I find comfort in praying and asking God Earnestly for what I want, and taking comfort in knowing from Psalm 84:11, which is a verse that I hold onto so tightly that the Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. And so I feel like, you know, if I ask him and he says no, then even though I see that as a good thing, he doesn't because he's not going to withhold any good thing from me. And I think about he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. How will he not also, along with those graciously give us all things? This is a God who gave his son for me and he has my best interest at heart, even if I can't see that. But the. That's really hard to do when you're looking at your husband, your precious sons and your life, you know, and knowing that that's there.
Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey
Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey? Because I'm sure you had moments where he met you in unexpected way to unexpected time.
Kim Harms Yeah, one, one specific thing and this, this goes. Actually it's a story that starts in my first diagnosis and comes back in my second. after. When I was working on my first book, which was after I'd been through treatment the first time, I had a lot of medical terminology in that book. It was a book that's trying to. It guides called Life Reconstructed. And it's kind of guiding you through how to make decisions on surgeries and what those surgeries are like and what you're what you're going to go through in recovery and just a lot of medical terminology in there. And I had prayed God would, would you please bring a medical professional to me who would be willing to read through this to make sure that me, an English major knows like is writing the correct thing about this medical science stuff that I'm not good at. And I cold called, it's Katzman Breast center in Des Moines, Iowa and asked if I could speak with Dr. Beck, who is just in Iowa. She's a well known breast surgeon. And I was able to connect with her and I told her what I was doing and I asked if she might be willing to take a look at this book. Well, she did and then she said, you know what, I'm going to go through this chapter by chapter and then I'm going to call you and we are going to go through things and I'm going to let you know if there's things that maybe you could say more clearly or a section you could add here or there. And she did that through the whole book for me. And then we became friends. So I've been connected with her since my first diagnosis. Well, then when I discovered the second lump, I reached out to my friend, breast surgeon Dr. Beck, and she was not part of my team the first time, but the second time, she became my surgeon. And I remember being wheeled back, for my lumpectomy and get this tumor out by my friend Susan, who is Dr. Beck. And her face was the last one I saw as I fell asleep in this surgery. And I'm like, God is so good that he would bring me this person, like, years ago, who then became such an important part of my second journey with cancer. So that's just a huge. I mean, that's a really big God thing that, happened, over the course of my cancer journey.
Dr. Jessica Peck There is no such thing as coincidence. And I believe that God is so kind in that way to even work out the little, tiny details, you know, just to do that. And. And little details that seem big at the time. And I was reading. I'm, I'm looking right now because I'm trying to find it. She even endorsed this devotional, didn't she? I think I saw her name in there.
Kim Harms She endorsed it. Yep. And she wrote my forward for my first one. And, yeah, she's just been such a big part of this.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, that's right. I see it right here. Here's her quote. As a physician, I seek God's word in the morning and read a devotional that always seems to dovetail into my day and carried through cancer. Kim Harm shares the stories of women who have gone through difficult physical and emotional and events. When you read their stories, you are drawn into their lives. I love Philippians 4, 6 through 7 because it comforts me when I become anxious about life's twists and turns. And Jesus tells us many times throughout the Bible that he will be with us always wherever we go. And Kim reminds us of that truth in our devotional series. May God be glorified in the sharing. And, you know, one of the things that I've been talking about, Kim, here on this show is that it's a little bit in vogue right now to hate on healthcare professionals, which is very, like a. Unusual place, you know, for us to be. But there are some great physicians, there are great nurses, there are great healthcare providers who love the Lord and who are doing such amazing work. And I love that you shared that she was a part of your story. And in this devotional, you share other stories as well. How did this come together and what can the reader expect?
Kim Harms Yeah, I. It started, I just like the. My story about Dr. Beck. I have other instances right through my treatment that I'm like, oh, that was God. I know God just did that. And as I'm talking to other women who have been through cancer, we just shared. We started sharing stories. And, I'm like, God is working in a lot of people and a lot of hard things. And so that's kind of. Of. I thought, I want to share other people's stories. And I. Before I, Before I had cancer, well, I. I graduated from Iowa State with a degree in English, and I minored in journalism. And so before I had kids, I was a newspaper reporter. And I'm really a reporter at heart. And I thought, I want to share other people's stories. And so that's kind of how it started. I started just reaching out to people. we would. We'd talk for 30, 30 to 45 minutes an hour sometimes, and I try to find the story, within their. Their cancer. Sometimes, they had the idea. They're like, God did this. And. And that's where our story went. Other times, we would just talk and we'd get into it, and I'd be like, oh, this is it. This is. This is a really big thing that God did. And so I would. I. I took those and tried to make them in kind of concise story form and ended up with a book of 70 of them.
Dr. Jessica Peck And.
Kim Harms And, interviewed lots and lots of women, from variety of ages, var. Variety of cancer diagnoses. and I'm just so excited to be able to share what God did. Not just in mine life, but man in so many women. so, yeah, that is. That's kind of the gist of that, of how it started, how it came about.
Dr. Jessica Peck I mean, 70. That's a lot.
Kim Harms Yes, yes. And 10 of those are my own personal stories.
Dr. Jessica Peck yeah, yeah, that. That's a lot. And that just tells me that this is something that. That just touches everyone. You know, there's really no one who is untouched. And so what words of encouragement would you give? Kim?
I want you to speak directly to those people who are walking their own cancer journey
I want you to speak directly to those people who are walking their own personal cancer journey. You have been in that boat. You are in that boat. How. What would you say to them to encourage them at this point?
Kim Harms one thing I would say is it's. It. The emotions Are all okay. It's all. It's okay if this makes you angry, it's okay if this makes you sad, it's okay if it makes you fearful. You're going to have all of these emotions. I would say allow yourself to work through those things. In fact, I remember at one point being very, very frustrated and angry. And I was like, I'm going to give myself 24 hours to feel this way. And then I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to give it to God and I'm going to move on. And it sounds easy. It's not. But, just knowing those emotions you have, whatever they are, are normal. And you need to, allow yourself to work through them. So do them. Feel the feelings. pray, like, pray like you've never prayed before. And ask God specifically to show you things. Ask, him to answer specific. Pray, because when you see those little things, those little specific answers, it's just such an encouragement. and let people help you. It's okay. Like, let people do the things for you. It's, We feel like we should fight this and we should build strong and do this on our own. But, man, let people help. Let your family help. let people love you well, because it is a blessing to them. To be able to be a blessing to you.
Dr. Jessica Peck That can be. One of the hardest things is to let people in. But I remember when I was going through something, someone who was trying to help me said, stop trying to stop me from. From giving you a blessing. Like, I'm trying to be obedient to the Lord. And you are preventing me from obeying God because of your stubbornness. And so that is so hard to let people in. But when you do in that space, my goodness. Well, thank you so much, Kim For letting us into your journey today. I. Again, just hearing the emotion in your voice, it's made me emotional because I. This is such. This is such a tough thing. But to see hope in the middle of it all and to see you sharing your testimony of trusting God to carry you through your story, even when that story is a cancer journey. Again, this devotional is going to be available September 30th. You can pre order it now carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers, And I pray for those who were going through a cancer journey and those who are supporting someone going through a cancer journey that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace in circumstances that seem anything but peaceful. I pray that your caregiver team would have wise minds and skilled hands and compassionate hearts. And I pray for your healing. Thank you for joining us today. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And I've got a big dose of it for you. Today we're going to talk about something that, that's tough, but something that pretty much everybody is either going to go through or know someone who's going to go through. And we're talking about cancer journeys today. We're talking about how to trust God, carry you through your story. So many times people are shocked by a cancer diagnosis. It's a devastating word. And in fact, in my nursing practice in pediatrics, people, parents call it C, the big C, because it's so scary to even say it out loud. And whether it's your own diagnosis or someone you love, hearing those words, hearing that C word, that cancer word, it honestly changes everything. In the United States alone, nearly one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. It halts normal life in its tracks. It automatically changes your perspective. It forces difficult choices, it brings on overwhelming emotions, and you are faced with a barrage of life altering medical decisions right there in the moment. But right in the middle of that fear and uncertainty, there are voices of hope. And my guest today, her name is Kim Harms. She is a two time breast cancer survivor, she's an author, she's an advocate, and she has walked this road personally and alongside others. And her book we're talking about today, Carried Through Cancer is what we're talking about. And it's, it is 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. And there are, there's her own experience in there, there is research that she's done and dozens of real stories to remind you that you are never alone and that God meets you in the very heart of your suffering. And so today, before we start, I, just want to say, if you are going through a cancer journey, know that we are praying for you. We are praying God would intervene in that situation and that he would meet every need. And we pray that he will bring you to trust him to carry you through that story. And I also do want to give a shout out to all of the healthcare providers who are taking care of patients with cancer now. in my long career of teaching, I've taught in cancer hospitals and mostly in pediatric cancer, which is just absolutely devastating. But you know what? Every time I walk in and out of that hospital, I see healthcare providers who inspire me every single day, who give daily doses of hope in the face of utter hopelessness, who make that journey a little bit easier. And so to those of you who work in that field, please accept my thanks on behalf of everyone, my esteem, my admiration, my appreciation for the ministry that you have. And Kim, thank you for joining us today and sharing your own story. As I shared with you before this show, I know you've shared this story so many times, but it is still difficult to share a journey of cancer. But I'm so grateful for your courage, your transparency, your authenticity, and helping other people to know that they're not alone. Thanks for joining us.
Kim Harms Well, thank you very much to help me. And you're right, it's a hard thing to talk about sometimes, but, but that's where God has me and he's good. So we talk about it.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's right. Because, you know, it's like I said, either you. Everyone who's listening either has had a cancer journey or knows who has had a cancer journey. And you may know someone kind of peripherally, or you may know someone or have even lost someone very, very close to you. Cancer has touched my family, and, you know, I have very, very dear friends who have had very, very difficult battles. And it is. It is tough to have a front row seat to it. I can't even imagine what it's like to be that patient. And so I would love for you to take us back to your diagnosis and just walk us through what you. What that looks like and how your cancer journey began.
Kim Harms Sure. yeah. I was first diagnosed when I was 40. Actually. I was diagnosed one month to the day after my 40th birthday. And it was quite shocking. I actually discovered a lump myself, and went in and my doctor said I was pretty young. It's probably not cancer, but, you know, let's check and let's make sure you're okay. And, it ended up that I had, breast cancer. And I remember getting the phone call from my doctor and just getting off of the phone, excuse me. and just collapsing into my husband Corey's arms and just saying, I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. And that was. That was day one. and it was, it was hard. It was a hard adjustment. and just your life, really, as you said at the beginning, it just, it changes it's shocking and there's so many things, so many decisions that need to be made and, and so many appointments and things you need to do and everything happens just so quickly. It just a barrage. and so that's, that's how it started. My first diagnosis. I was diagnosed at stage one. So the first time I had cancer, I, I didn't have to go through chemotherapy, radiation, some of those tough things. I had a bilateral mastectomy and then had reconstruction surgery and then was on hormone thera for several years. and kind of, you know, I got past, got past. You don't really get past cancer. But I got back to a normal, to a normal place in life. And then, seven years after my first diagnosis, I discovered another lump, and took, me right back. and it was a little more advanced the second time. And so I did end up going then through. I had surgeries again. I had. That went through 16 rounds of chemotherapy, lost all my hair. so I'm very thankful to have my hair back. and then went through radiation and am on ongoing, therapies. Just because once you've had cancer twice, you kind of get moved over into this high risk category. So they watch me pretty closely and I'm still doing things, but it's, it's. I'm living a normal life with just a few little extra things that I'm doing. So that's.
Dr. Jessica Peck I hear the emotion in your voice even now, and it is, it's so, it's so scary. And I think in those first days and everyone's cancer journey is different, but sharing from your own personal journey in those first days, you know, you describe collapsing in your husband's arm, his arms, and just that barrage of information. And I think as the news spreads, because I'm sure you, you wonder that, like, do I tell people? Do I not tell people? If I do tell people, how do I tell people? And then people on the other side of that are wondering, what do I say? And I'm sure they come up and it's the sympathetic head tilt and they want to be compassionate, but they don't want to say the wrong thing. So some people just don't say anything. Some people might avoid you. Some people might be, you know, really just like all of a sudden, I'm, going to live with you and I'm going to cook for you. All of those things.
Kim says it's hard to tell people when you're diagnosed with cancer
Walk us through those two sides of it. You sharing that and what you learned from how to share your diagnos and what would be helpful for people in that support system to know how to respond.
Kim Harms Sure. Yeah. One thing that was very hard and very surprising that you don't think about when you're not in it. But, you know, I get this diagnosis and my heart gets broken, and then it feels like I have to break everyone else's heart. So you have to make those phone calls. You have to call your mom, you have to tell your children, you have to tell your siblings, your friends. And it's just like, over and over, you're. You're making this phone call and you're breaking someone's heart. And it almost feels like you have to comfort the people that you're telling. and I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's a hard thing, because these people love you very much. So of course their hearts are going to break. it's a caring thing that's happening, but it's. It's really hard to be the person that has to tell everybody. so that. That was a little bit shocking and hard to me. I did have a dear friend who I, told all and my husband told people that were really in our close circle. And then some of those people in the close circle got the assignment of telling people, maybe friends that we aren't as close to, so we didn't have to do all of that. But that was, that was very hard. and then you're right on the other side of it. Cancer makes people uncomfortable. I have a friend, a fellow cancer survivor, and she has this shirt that says, don't make weird. And that is so perfect, because cancer makes people weird if they haven't been exposed to it. They don't know what to say to you, or they say completely inappropriate things to you. they try to comfort you, but in it, they're really not being comforting at all. And I had to learn to have grace for people, because prior to me being diagnosed with cancer, cancer made me uncomfortable. I had a friend whose daughter was diagnosed, 10 years maybe or more before I was diagnosed. And I look back and I think, man, was I a very good friend to her. I didn't know what to do. And so I feel like I didn't do enough. and so I try to remind myself, okay, that person that just said that really stupid thing was really trying to be comforting. They were doing the best they could. so having that perspective has helped. When, when people do get weird because they do.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Kim, that's really convicting, honestly, because I hadn't thought about that. The. The burden that you almost feel to comfort someone when you're telling them and giving them that bad news, but then also feeling like you have to have grace for people who are well intentioned but, you know, hurtful nonetheless, that's really convicting.
Kim says it's hard to know what to say when diagnosed with cancer
What do you think? What words of advice would you give for people who know someone in their circle who's been diagnosed with cancer? What are some things that you would say? Do not say this or say or do this. What's the best way to approach that situation? Besides, I love that. Buying a T shirt that says don't make this weird. I love that.
Kim Harms Yes. Yes. I would say one of the things that really surprised me, and you wouldn't think people do this, but it happened very regularly to me, is people find out, and then they say, oh, my aunt's sister died of that cancer. And I. I don't know why they do that. I feel like maybe they're saying, well, this at least you're not dying. I don't know. But that happened. Don't do that. don't. What I would suggest is, empathy. But try not to help and try not to do the trite little comments of everything happens for a reason. Well, even if everything does happen for a reason, it doesn't feel. Feel good for you to tell me that right now. I'm praying for you. That's awesome. can I hug you? That's awesome. can I, Can I help you? A lot of people ask that. and which is great, but if there's a specific thing you can say, like, if, you know, this person really likes, caramel lattes, can you say, can I bring you a caramel latte tomorrow morning? Something specific like that? those are. Those are better things. And you don't have to have the perfect thing to say. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And even saying, I don't know what to say, but I'm sorry. those are. Those are good things to say, Kim.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's really helpful because I think we just don't think. And, you know, we're trying. Like you said, most people are trying to be helpful. It's really hard, you know, to know what to say. And I think a lot of times in situations like this, it's almost like we feel like when we're hearing. When we're hearing the news. I'm just saying, as, someone who hears the news of cancer, all Of a sudden, it's like this spiritual pop quiz. Like, do you know the right comforting thing to say? Do you know the right scripture? Are you going to respond appropriately? And you're desperately trying to measure up to that test, but you just can't because nothing prepares you for that moment. So I think the words of advice that you've given are really, really helpful. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. Can I bring you a caramel? And can I pray for you? Those things are really important. And if you can just start with those, just say, I'm so sorry. Can I pray for you? And I encourage you as my listeners to pray right then on the spot. There's so often I'm really trying to adopt this habit in my life where I'll say, like, oh, I'll pray for you. Like, and then I follow that up with right now. And sometimes that can feel uncomfortable, but I think there is never a prayer wasted. And I, you know, I have not had a cancer child journey, but I have been with many who have. And sitting on the other side of that, I have never had someone with cancer say, no, I don't want you to pray for me. I know that happens, and I know that could happen. But I'm saying most people with cancer will appreciate those prayers and, and take them very much. Well, Kim, we're just getting started. We have a lot more to talk about. I really want to talk about your marriage and what that was like and going through a cancer journey because that can be radically altered. And most importantly, I want to talk about your faith and where you saw God in unexpected places. And a cancer journey, a health crisis, any kind of trauma, tragedy or trial, it tends to really refine your faith in ways that it didn't before when you have a before and an after. We'll be right back with more from Kim Harms She's an author, a speaker, a, ah, cancer survivor, and authored of the devotional carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. You know, someone going through a cancer journey who needs this encouragement in their hands. I pray that you'd be bold, put feet to your faith and get a copy of the book and just give it to them with the words. I thought this might encourage you. We'll be right back.
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Promises by Maverick City Music ft. Joe L. Barnes & Naomi Raine And faithful promises time and time again you have proven you do just what you said? Though the storms may come and the winds may blow I'll remain steadfast and let my heart learn? When you speak a, word it will come to pass Great is your faithfulness to me Great is your faithfulness to me from the rising sun to the setting same I will praise your name Great is your faithfulness to me
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is promises by maverick city music. And I don't know what you're going through today. I imagine many of you out there are going through something. Through a trial, through a trauma, through a tragedy, through something unexpected and frankly, unwelcome. And many times, for many people, that is a cancer journey. And when we listen to a song like promises, it can be hard to say, great is your faithfulness to me. But here's the truth. Truth. God didn't promise you that you would never get cancer, but he did promise to never leave you or forsake you. And whether it's your own journey or the journey of someone you know, everyone can learn something from my guest today. A, cancer diagnosis feels like being tossed into chaos. Your life is just turned upside down. I have been in the exam room so many times when people get a cancer diagnosis, and it is devastating every single time. And you see all of the appointments, the surgeries, the treatment schedules, but then there's the emotions, the family, the life that goes on around that. How does life go on when your life feels like it's being threatened? But here's the truth. Cancer may make you feel isolated, but you are not alone. God promised to never leave you and never forsake you. And I'm talking today to author Kim harms. She knows this firsthand, and she is sharing her own cancer journey so beautifully, so authentically, so transparently and she is a survivor of two breast cancer battles. And she shares raw, honest stories and faith filled encouragement to guide women and families through the uncertainty of all of that that is going through a, cancer diagnosis. Women and Men. Her book carried through cancer 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers can open the door to conversations that many people are afraid to have about some of the issues that are going on. So I pray that if you know someone going through a cancer journey or you're going through your own journey yourself, that you'll get a copy of this encouragement m that God has written on Kim's heart. And so Kim, thank you again for sharing your story. I, I, I can't say it enough. I know it's not easy, but it is such a gift to us and I'm grateful for before the break, we were talking all about the things that happen and the way your relationships change and the way that people respond. And I want to go back to your husband because you talked about falling into his arms when you first learned of your first diagnosis. What is that like? Because it's hard on marriage, that kind of health journey, especially a cancer journey. What have you learned and what encouragement would you give about fighting for your marriage alongside fighting cancer?
Kim Harms yeah, it's, it is very, hard. I would say, going through cancer brought my husband and I closer. Like we have a better relationship now than we did prior to cancer. We're closer because we had to battle through things and we had to think about what would life be like for him if I wasn't here. You know, just things that you don't necessarily want to think about, but they're in your face. And so, so yeah, I would say the diagnosis and going through treatment brought us closer in that we, we did this together. And he is such a servant. Like he just took really good care of me, on the nights that I was like not able to sleep. I remember being up in the middle of the night on the recliner and we were watching episodes, old episodes of MASH for hours, just things like that. But he, he was wonderful and through the whole journey. But we did struggle to, I think what happens is you're diagnosed with cancer and you still have all the normal stressors of your life. But then this cancer like just boosts your regular stress level up. So you are always living under a certain amount of stress. And we found living under that and then having the diagnosis, having all of these appointments, having all of these decisions that needed to be made these, like, life altering decisions. while you're thinking about your mortality and you're like, oh, I, I need to, I need to decide that, like, how do you do this? as we were going through that, I, we didn't realize it at the time, but we started to kind of, I mean, we, we didn't realize why at the time, I should say, we started kind of butting heads on things. And, we realized later that we had all these decisions to make. And I was, I was making, I was making these decisions and I was not including him in my thought process or in, like, we weren't talking back and forth on, on the different options the doctors would give us. I would just say, hey, I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And he wouldn't necessarily have wanted me to do anything different than I chose, but I learned that, that it kind of hurt his feelings being left out of it. He felt like he was on the periphery. And, and that was hard for him. And then it was also hard for him. I think when you have someone in your family who has cancer, that person gets all the attention. And my husband's not selfish at all. Not saying that he is at all, but everyone wants to help you. And they are providing so much support and so much energy and they get, they don't get all the support that you don't do. They don't get the gifts dropped off at the door. They don't, you know, they're, they're. It's kind of a thankless position in a lot of ways. And so I think just all of that, it, it caused some stress in our marriage that really, honestly, it came to a head one night. We were, we were going out to eat, to Johnny's Steakhouse, which is our, like, restaurant we go to as a treat to celebrate things. And we ended up arguing on the way there. And we were sitting in the parking lot of this restauran and we are both bawling, and we're like, should we even go in there? Like, should we even go in there and eat or should we just drive home? And we like, pulled it together and we're like, you know what? We're going to figure this out. We're going to get through it. What we're going to do is we're going to go in there and we are just going to enjoy this night and not think about this thing we're struggling with right now. And we did it it was hard, but we did it. and we did. We worked through those things, and, we are better for it. I. I used to be a person who would bottle everything up. I'm not really an external processor. and I wouldn't share things with him. And now it's like when we're forced to learn how to do that, we communicate so much better than we used to. Not perfect at all, but that force. Healthy some things about relationships.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, well, it is.
Many men just want to fix it when their wives have a cancer diagnosis
I'm so glad that you brought that up because, the thought of the caregiver not getting kind of the same level of attention that the patient has, and we see this, I. This a lot with children who have cancer or chronic illness. Their siblings, you know, often are forgotten because, you know, just that person who's sick consumes so much energy, and that's where our mental energy is and our emotional energy and all of our physical energy. And I think it's really important to. To look at those kind of roles of. Of husband and wife, because many times, speaking broadly, many men just want to fix it, and they can't fix it when their wives have a cancer diagnosis. And. And if the shoe is on the other foot, I see many wives who just want to be the best caret. Men who are not accustomed to being cared for and are used to being the caretaker in their family or not needing that level of care, it can be really hard. And, regardless of however you deal with it, with your personality, your temperament, you know, however God has made your marriage, you need to invite other people in there to help you. And I know I've seen this with very dear friends who have had cancer journeys, especially for that caregiver, that spouse who was sitting by the hospital bed, you know, just night after night after night, who maybe needs to go home and see the kids and take a shower and have a night they're not sleeping on a couch. It's hard to invite people into those spaces. Because when you're talking about a cancer journey, Kim, you know much better than I that we're talking about the. We're talking about humanity here. We're talking about getting sick. We're talking about incisions and surgeries and medical things that can make people really uncomfortable. And it can be hard to invite people in or even to let people in who are inviting themselves in. How did you see that external support system helping to stabilize your family? What did you learn about boundaries, about where to put them down and where to put them up?
Kim Harms yeah, we did. You. You kind of learn after a diagnosis like this, you kind of get your core group of like oh these are my people. And there's a lot, there's, there's like different levels of support systems. It almost feels like and thankfully in that I did have a group of just close knit friends who we had an ongo going just text thread throughout my first, my first fight and and they were awesome in supporting me. and my husband thankfully at that, at that time he was an elder within our church and he was able to really lean on some of those other guys that they had prayer meeting every week together and had a couple other friends who came along and supported him and that is very helpful and I think for a lot of men they, I, Corrie thankfully had more of a support system than I think a lot men do have because having people speak into his life. So I'm very thankful for that. but you say having to put walls up with people we, you had to learn like who, who, who's your core group they're going to share everything with and then who, who's kind of that next level that are like oh these people, what can they do for me? Oh, have, have them bring me meals like you. You kind of have different levels of, of help and support. And man, I, if, if you're a person out there who is, has a loved one with cancer, I'd say figure out where you're at in that. In, in the realm of that. What's the best way you can support that person? Are you a person where you can you know, drop off the, the latte or drop off a meal or are you a person who needs to really step up and be like okay, I'm spending the night with you in the hospital tonight Corrie can go home and be with the kids. because all of that. but certain people are better suited for certain things than others I guess. If that makes sense.
Dr. Jessica Peck It absolutely does. And then thinking about your children and all of this, you have three boys who were young when you were diagnosed and I read in your bio that you, you have a dog who thinks he's your kid too. So that's, that's so funny. But it's hard. I can't imagine what it was like to, to walk them through this because you want, I imagine you think in your mind how you want to respond and how you want to support them. But you have physical limitations and honestly you have emotional limitations too just because of the journey that you're going through, how did you share this with them and how did you see this impact their faith?
Kim Harms yeah, the first diagnosis, sharing the, with the kids. I mean, I can, I can remember where everyone was sitting in the living room and I can remember their reactions. And it was very hard. I couldn't speak. Corrie had to do that that night. and we, my boys don't cry a lot, but there are tears for sure that night, which it's, it's so hard. and they're, they're scared then like you are and you don't want your kids to be scared. You want to protect your kids. So yes, telling them was very hard. but it did, obviously they have to walk through this with you and if they can see that you are leaning into your faith. Jesus does not leave us when things are hard. In fact, he comes so close and I wanted my kids to see that. Like, of course I'm sad they're going to see me cry. I'm scared they can see these emotions. But I was like, I want them to see that Jesus is here. so in the future when they have other hard things in their life, which certainly they will, right? Breast cancer, of course is very common. At some point going to have a friend or a sister in law or you know, a mother in law, somebody they know, excuse me, that's going to have cancer. And so I wanted to be able to, help them through that and guide them toward Jesus so that when this comes again, and for us it did come again, right? I had it a second time that they can look back and say, oh, oh look what, look what God did for us last time. Why would he not do that this time too? so that was kind of my, my hope. It was all really hard. but man, we had some good, good times in that too because we focused on the good. and another thing I did was just try to keep their lives normal. We don't need to drop and stop everything because I have cancer. I can, if I'm feeling okay, I can go watch your basketball games and we will get people to get you to practice and you can still go to youth. so try to stay as normal as possible, while walking through a very non normal thing.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's really helpful because I'm thinking about what you said earlier about if you know someone who has a cancer journey, kind of figuring out where do I fit in their ecosystem, what gifts do I have, what resources do I have that I could offer to them specifically and So I think often, especially for kids, when there are kids involved. Exactly what you said, Kim. Just keeping things as normal as possible, as much as possible, while also knowing that nothing seems normal. But just having those routines like yes, you can get to basketball practice and yes you can go to church on Wednesday nights and yes, we'll have taco Tuesdays or whatever that is, that can be really helpful to speak into that and just to say, hey, can I take, you know, we're going, we're on the same sports team, can I pick up your kid for practice? And that can just be a normal thing. All of those little gestures of kindness, all of those little gestures of normalcy and maintaining the schedule that literally builds kids brain for resilience. And so I think sometimes people who are on the outside of a cancer journey who want to help, they want to fix it and they think, well what, what is that? You know, I, I brought tacos on Tuesday. How is that helping? That is literally helping build their brains for resilience. And it's showing them the hands and feet of Christ. It's showing them that faithfulness that's helping them to not feel alone, to know that God will never leave us or forsake us. And again, the book is called carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual Strength from Cancer Fighters, Survivors and Caregivers by Kim Harms. When we come back, we'll take a deep dive into the faith element of this. Where is God in that cancer journey? We'll talk about that when we come, come back. There is someone you know who needs to get a copy of this devotional and I pray that you will gift it to them. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon
During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television. One man saw the battle coming. If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. And he chose to stand and fight. If you will not respect our beliefs, then you will respect our money and we'll spend it with somebody else. Reverend Wildmon. Reverend Wildmon. The Reverend Donald Wildmon. Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. Things were changing and many people just sort of acclimated to it. And Don Wildmon didn't. They thought, I think that they could just crush him. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today. For free visit culturewarrior.movie
The Cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin Who told you grace can't reach the messed up ones like you has the devil made you believe the lies he tells are true? When you're sure that you're the one who's wandered too far off it's not too late Just come home to the. Cross. Come see the Savior's love that would die to make you new Nothing you have ever done can change what mercy's done for you and if you ever wonder if you are so great it comes look up and see the.
Dr. Jessica Peck Cross welcome back friends. That is the cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin. And that is a message of hope for those of you who are going through a journey, whatever it is that you're going through.
Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families
Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families. I have seen it professionally and personally and had a front row seat to some excruciating journeys. It is devastating. And you can wonder, where is God in all of that? Where is God in a cancer journey? And my guest today, Kim Harms, is someone who has lived it, who has asked that question, who has seen God work. And she has written a devotional. It comes out September 30th. It's available for pre order so you can order it now and give it to someone you know who needs it. Just giving them that little bit of encouragement from someone who has walked that road. It is so different when you meet somebody who has walked in those shoes. And I've seen this from a clinical standpoint. It is an amazing thing to watch when you see someone that you know has experienced a cancer journey, meets another person who has also walked that road, and then all of a sudden they start talking in a language that you don't understand. They speak in emotions and shared emotions that you don't see and don't feel. There is something so encouraging about having someone in the same boat. And whether you're walking a cancer journey yourself or whether you are walking alongside someone, everyone can learn something today about how we can best support people who are walking through that kind of trial and how we can be the hands and feet of Christ to them, how we can carry one another's burdens and in so doing fulfill the law of Christ and keep Kim I do see people ask that question all the time. Where is God in that cancer journey? Because you know he could intervene. And you see people who are healed and you may pray for healing and that's not your journey. And everyone's journey is different.
Did you have a struggle with your Faith during your cancer journey
Did you have a struggle with your Faith. And where did you. What did you learn about God in your cancer journey?
Kim Harms Yeah, I don't know. I don't. I wouldn't say that I ever struggled with my faith that I ever had. I never really went through the why me, God? Why me? but that's not saying it wasn't really hard. And there weren't days that, I mean, I didn't. Obviously didn't want it to happen. I wanted him to answer some of my prayers differently than he did. I. I do remember the second diagnosis when I. When I was diagnosed. The second time I did have, have a conversation with God while I was on my knees in my bedroom and bawling. that was like, I don't want to die. Please, m. Please let me live. and I know you're not supposed to make deals with God, but I said, if you let me live, I won't be ashamed of you. not that I was ashamed of him before, but. But it was harder to speak about my faith in him. And so I said, I'll do chemo. I'll do whatever it is. Just let me live so I can tell people my story. and he did that. And, And I'm so thankful for that. So that. That is, That's God answering a prayer in a. In a strange way, right? I. I. Before that, I had. I had asked him if this lump could not be cancer. and I didn't get that answer. But he. He answers in hard ways sometimes, but he's. He's always there. and when I look back, I think, okay, he. That happened. He's allowed this because he wanted to do this. and, Not that I want to go through cancer again. Not that that it was something I would ever ask for, but I am in a place now where I could not have been if I hadn't walked through this really awful stuff.
Dr. Jessica Peck I mean, Kim, that. So real and so raw and. And just so human. And I look back at the prayers that were prayed in the Bible. You're making me emotional here. But you say you're not supposed to make deals with God. Well, there were plenty of people in the Bible who definitely did that. And we see God's grace in that, right? Like we. Gideon asking for the fleece to be dry. No. Can it be wet? No.
Dr. Jessica Peck Okay, well, how about this? Show me a sign. I mean, we see that human, that humanness of just, you know, our. Our humanity. And I. I think I find comfort in praying and asking God Earnestly for what I want, and taking comfort in knowing from Psalm 84:11, which is a verse that I hold onto so tightly that the Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. And so I feel like, you know, if I ask him and he says no, then even though I see that as a good thing, he doesn't because he's not going to withhold any good thing from me. And I think about he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. How will he not also, along with those graciously give us all things? This is a God who gave his son for me and he has my best interest at heart, even if I can't see that. But the. That's really hard to do when you're looking at your husband, your precious sons and your life, you know, and knowing that that's there.
Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey
Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey? Because I'm sure you had moments where he met you in unexpected way to unexpected time.
Kim Harms Yeah, one, one specific thing and this, this goes. Actually it's a story that starts in my first diagnosis and comes back in my second. after. When I was working on my first book, which was after I'd been through treatment the first time, I had a lot of medical terminology in that book. It was a book that's trying to. It guides called Life Reconstructed. And it's kind of guiding you through how to make decisions on surgeries and what those surgeries are like and what you're what you're going to go through in recovery and just a lot of medical terminology in there. And I had prayed God would, would you please bring a medical professional to me who would be willing to read through this to make sure that me, an English major knows like is writing the correct thing about this medical science stuff that I'm not good at. And I cold called, it's Katzman Breast center in Des Moines, Iowa and asked if I could speak with Dr. Beck, who is just in Iowa. She's a well known breast surgeon. And I was able to connect with her and I told her what I was doing and I asked if she might be willing to take a look at this book. Well, she did and then she said, you know what, I'm going to go through this chapter by chapter and then I'm going to call you and we are going to go through things and I'm going to let you know if there's things that maybe you could say more clearly or a section you could add here or there. And she did that through the whole book for me. And then we became friends. So I've been connected with her since my first diagnosis. Well, then when I discovered the second lump, I reached out to my friend, breast surgeon Dr. Beck, and she was not part of my team the first time, but the second time, she became my surgeon. And I remember being wheeled back, for my lumpectomy and get this tumor out by my friend Susan, who is Dr. Beck. And her face was the last one I saw as I fell asleep in this surgery. And I'm like, God is so good that he would bring me this person, like, years ago, who then became such an important part of my second journey with cancer. So that's just a huge. I mean, that's a really big God thing that, happened, over the course of my cancer journey.
Dr. Jessica Peck There is no such thing as coincidence. And I believe that God is so kind in that way to even work out the little, tiny details, you know, just to do that. And. And little details that seem big at the time. And I was reading. I'm, I'm looking right now because I'm trying to find it. She even endorsed this devotional, didn't she? I think I saw her name in there.
Kim Harms She endorsed it. Yep. And she wrote my forward for my first one. And, yeah, she's just been such a big part of this.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, that's right. I see it right here. Here's her quote. As a physician, I seek God's word in the morning and read a devotional that always seems to dovetail into my day and carried through cancer. Kim Harm shares the stories of women who have gone through difficult physical and emotional and events. When you read their stories, you are drawn into their lives. I love Philippians 4, 6 through 7 because it comforts me when I become anxious about life's twists and turns. And Jesus tells us many times throughout the Bible that he will be with us always wherever we go. And Kim reminds us of that truth in our devotional series. May God be glorified in the sharing. And, you know, one of the things that I've been talking about, Kim, here on this show is that it's a little bit in vogue right now to hate on healthcare professionals, which is very, like a. Unusual place, you know, for us to be. But there are some great physicians, there are great nurses, there are great healthcare providers who love the Lord and who are doing such amazing work. And I love that you shared that she was a part of your story. And in this devotional, you share other stories as well. How did this come together and what can the reader expect?
Kim Harms Yeah, I. It started, I just like the. My story about Dr. Beck. I have other instances right through my treatment that I'm like, oh, that was God. I know God just did that. And as I'm talking to other women who have been through cancer, we just shared. We started sharing stories. And, I'm like, God is working in a lot of people and a lot of hard things. And so that's kind of. Of. I thought, I want to share other people's stories. And I. Before I, Before I had cancer, well, I. I graduated from Iowa State with a degree in English, and I minored in journalism. And so before I had kids, I was a newspaper reporter. And I'm really a reporter at heart. And I thought, I want to share other people's stories. And so that's kind of how it started. I started just reaching out to people. we would. We'd talk for 30, 30 to 45 minutes an hour sometimes, and I try to find the story, within their. Their cancer. Sometimes, they had the idea. They're like, God did this. And. And that's where our story went. Other times, we would just talk and we'd get into it, and I'd be like, oh, this is it. This is. This is a really big thing that God did. And so I would. I. I took those and tried to make them in kind of concise story form and ended up with a book of 70 of them.
Dr. Jessica Peck And.
Kim Harms And, interviewed lots and lots of women, from variety of ages, var. Variety of cancer diagnoses. and I'm just so excited to be able to share what God did. Not just in mine life, but man in so many women. so, yeah, that is. That's kind of the gist of that, of how it started, how it came about.
Dr. Jessica Peck I mean, 70. That's a lot.
Kim Harms Yes, yes. And 10 of those are my own personal stories.
Dr. Jessica Peck yeah, yeah, that. That's a lot. And that just tells me that this is something that. That just touches everyone. You know, there's really no one who is untouched. And so what words of encouragement would you give? Kim?
I want you to speak directly to those people who are walking their own cancer journey
I want you to speak directly to those people who are walking their own personal cancer journey. You have been in that boat. You are in that boat. How. What would you say to them to encourage them at this point?
Kim Harms one thing I would say is it's. It. The emotions Are all okay. It's all. It's okay if this makes you angry, it's okay if this makes you sad, it's okay if it makes you fearful. You're going to have all of these emotions. I would say allow yourself to work through those things. In fact, I remember at one point being very, very frustrated and angry. And I was like, I'm going to give myself 24 hours to feel this way. And then I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to give it to God and I'm going to move on. And it sounds easy. It's not. But, just knowing those emotions you have, whatever they are, are normal. And you need to, allow yourself to work through them. So do them. Feel the feelings. pray, like, pray like you've never prayed before. And ask God specifically to show you things. Ask, him to answer specific. Pray, because when you see those little things, those little specific answers, it's just such an encouragement. and let people help you. It's okay. Like, let people do the things for you. It's, We feel like we should fight this and we should build strong and do this on our own. But, man, let people help. Let your family help. let people love you well, because it is a blessing to them. To be able to be a blessing to you.
Dr. Jessica Peck That can be. One of the hardest things is to let people in. But I remember when I was going through something, someone who was trying to help me said, stop trying to stop me from. From giving you a blessing. Like, I'm trying to be obedient to the Lord. And you are preventing me from obeying God because of your stubbornness. And so that is so hard to let people in. But when you do in that space, my goodness. Well, thank you so much, Kim For letting us into your journey today. I. Again, just hearing the emotion in your voice, it's made me emotional because I. This is such. This is such a tough thing. But to see hope in the middle of it all and to see you sharing your testimony of trusting God to carry you through your story, even when that story is a cancer journey. Again, this devotional is going to be available September 30th. You can pre order it now carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers, And I pray for those who were going through a cancer journey and those who are supporting someone going through a cancer journey that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace in circumstances that seem anything but peaceful. I pray that your caregiver team would have wise minds and skilled hands and compassionate hearts. And I pray for your healing. Thank you for joining us today. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Kim Harms, two-time breast cancer survivor and author, talks with Jessica about her journey and her new devotional (releasing September 30, 2025) "Carried Through Cancer: 70 Days of Spiritual Strength from Cancer Fighters, Survivors, and Caregivers"
Rx for Hope: Trust God to Carry You Through Your Story
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