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: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
This week is Truth for Youth Bible Week here at American Family Radio
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have some great news to share with you. I always love when I get to share great news because there is so much doom scrolling and bad news in the world. But a good piece of news that I have to share with you is that this is Truth for Youth Bible Week here at American Family Radio. We talked about it yesterday. We had Tim Todd, and this is an initiative where we're inviting you to help us give thousands of free Bibles to young people across America. The goal this week is to give away 65,000 Bibles. Now, this Bible is a NewSong Testament. It is a comic version of the Bible that's still true to the gospel, but that is visually engaging. And we're giving them away. They're, they're giving them away to kids who will give them to their friends. And they're only $2. And yesterday when we promoted this, you all stepped up and gave about 10,000 Bibles on day one, which was really exciting. So if you want to do that, you can call 800-733-4737. That's 800-733-4737. Or you can go to tfy.org Truth for Youth Bibles.
For many Christian families, dance can feel like a complicated topic
Now, today we are, talking about something that can be maybe a little bit difficult, maybe a little bit controversial. I'm guessing there's going to be people out there with strong feelings. But I'm just asking you to go with me for a minute because we are talking about dance. I know. Why are we talking about dance? Well, let me tell you. For many Christian families, dance can feel like a complicated topic. Now, some of you may have grown up seeing dance as a beautiful expression of worship and creativity. Maybe you participated in dance, maybe you are in dance now. And others come from traditions where dance was discouraged or avoided or maybe even prohibited out of sincere convictions about holiness and guarding one's heart. And there are a lot of parents today I know because I talked to them who simply find themselves somewhere in the middle. They want to encourage their daughter's gifts, but they also feel overwhelmed navigating costumes and choreography and competition, culture and body image and messages that are communicated through the performing arts. And this is one of those conversations where faithful Christians can hold different convictions. I just want to be really clear about that. And Romans 14 reminds us to extend grace in areas of our conscience while seeking above all to honor Christ. So today's goal, we're not going to debate whether or not Christian families should participate in dance. I really want to encourage and equip families who have prayerfully chosen this path and want to do so in a way that that is honoring to the Lord. And the arts have always been part of God's story. Scripture describes art that God created. It describes dancing as an expression of celebration and worship and joy before the Lord. You can find this all throughout the Bible. And it. And scripture also reminds us that every gift, including athleticism or artistry or creativity, all of these gifts that God has given us are ultimately meant to glorify God. And the reality is there's millions of children who participate and dance each year. In fact, about 7 to 8 million girls in the US in 2022, according to the best statistics I could find. I'm glad it wasn't, you know, six, seven million girls. No, I. I know I did. no, it's really 7 to 8 million girls and about 3 to 4 million are in formal dance studios. And it's definitely one of the most popular extracurricular activities for girls. And so for Christian parents, a lot of them, the question is not just a simple should my daughter dance? But how can she dance? Way that strengthens our faith. And today's guest believes that dance is more than performance. It is actually a path of discipleship. I'm talking today to Heather Johnson. She's the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministries. Now this is a global discipleship ministry that equips leaders to establish Christ centered dance programs through biblical training, curriculum, coaching and practical resources. She has more than two decades in ministry, three decades in dance instruction and performance, and she has made it her mission to help instructors and families integrate artistic excellence with spiritual formation and their ministry. M Redemptive Dance Ministries has chapters in multiple countries. They train instructors, they serve thousands of children annually through discipleship centered dance programs and the Ministry focuses on developing healthy relationships which every kid everywhere needs. It also focuses on artistic growth and Christ centered leadership through movement and worship. So today join us as we're talking about how parents can thoughtfully navigate dance culture and cultivate healthy identity and young dancers and help children most of all to use the gifts that God has given them to glorify God.
Redemptive Dance is a discipleship ministry that uses dance for ministry
Heather, welcome back. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you for joining us.
Heather Johnson: Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. It's so great to be back with you as well. And this is such an important topic, so thanks for having me on.
Dr. Jessica Peck: well, it really is. And I talked with you just a little bit when we were both at NRB earlier this year. And I knew when we talked I thought, oh, that we have more to talk about. But for those who may have missed it, tell our listeners a little bit about you, about Redemptive Dance ministries, about your heart behind your work.
Heather Johnson: Yes, thank you. I grew up as a dancer. I started dance as three years old and I quickly fell in love with it. And it was definitely one of those things that I was gifted. I didn't have anyone else in my family that dance. Ah, the Lord clearly just gave it to me because he prepared the works that we would do later on. Right. And so in that, I grew to love dance. But it was a secular program. I started dancing at Cincinnati Ballet, and that secular program, went all the way through until I had this incredible encounter with Jesus and it changed my life forever. And I went on to dance professionally and teach all over the country, while also my faith was silent. And it wasn't until, 2011 that the Lord kind of took four years to break down everything I thought I knew about the dance industry and build me back up in his design of it. And wow, it's different. It looks vastly different than the world's dance industry. And it was at that point he gave me a vision of what this could look like and that it would just be everywhere and we would be teaching people not to use dance in the way that world taught us to use the dance, but to actually use the art of dance to reach people for him and to change lives. And it's been an incredible experience. I, would say it's less a dance ministry and more a discipleship ministry that uses the art of dance to reach the youth and give them a positive outlet.
Heather: How do you approach having a dance ministry with differing convictions?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Heather, I know having talked to many families, there are families with differing convictions. And this is, this can be a polarizing topic sometimes. How do you approach that having a dance ministry, recognizing that those convictions range across the spectrum. How do you approach that? With grace.
Heather Johnson: I was going to say lead with grace for sure. and you know, there's some truth to the Holy Spirit convicts us on, what we should be convicted of. And if someone's not hearing that from them, then I'm not the one to go tell them. I need to listen to families and support them in the way that they are wanting and needing support. And I would say it's very easy to say, let's just peel it back to the common denominator. And that's that we all, no matter where we are, in our faith walk, no matter where we are, as a country, as a family, we all want to keep our children safe. And so we could, at the very common denominator, say, let's provide safe dance. Let's make sure that the music is age appropriate. And I'm not just speaking of profanity, I'm speaking of the theme behind it. What is the costuming communicating? Is it modest? Is it covering our children up? And then there's absolutely no place for sexualized choreography movement at all in any dance form. Right. And so I think when we look at the different levels of conviction from families, we really just need to say there's no prerequisite. You don't even have to be a Christian to be a part of this ministry. But you do know that you will have safe movement, modest costuming, and no sexualized profanity themes that are go in opposition of the Lord, it will be 100% safe for your child.
Dr. Jessica Peck: There are a lot of families who are looking for that. And, and you do call this discipleship in motion. What does that mean? How does that look practically in your day to day ministry?
Heather Johnson: Yes, thank you. I am passionate about discipleship. And my definition of discipleship is taking someone that says, okay, I believe in Jesus, right? But we need to transform them into somebody that is following Jesus with their lives, their words and their actions, and yes, even their movement. And if we think about it closely, schools, disciples, sports disciples, social media disciples, secular dance disciples, the question isn't whether discipleship is happening, it's who's doing the discipling. And I think it's very important as Christian moms, dads, families, dance ministry owners, executive directors, people that are in these classrooms with sports, they are, thinking at a deeper level, like, how am I helping this person to grow in their knowledge of God and to grow in their ability to follow him and have that that faith walked out with themselves, so it becomes their own. And so this isn't a new concept. It's just dance is the vehicle that gets them in the door. And Jesus is who we hope they meet when they come.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, I know when a lot, when kids enter a competitive environment, or especially when they enter dance, they can take that on as their identity. You know, you hear, like, people say, I am dancer. And that's true for athletics. You know, it could be I am a football player, or I am, you know, an academician. Like, I am whatever, it is that they are. A lot of times kids can take on that activity that they have that giftedness as their primary identity. And sometimes that can be. That can. That can be really good. It can build confidence if it's viewed in the right way, but it can also create some unhealthy boundaries. How do you help parents walk that and dance? Because I know, Heather, you know, for me, as a healthcare provider, one of the things we look at, especially in dance, is concerns about body image and disordered eating or eating disorders or those kinds of things. And dance is not the only one. There are other sports that are known to have a higher incidence of that kind of thing. So how do you help create a healthy environment so that identity is viewed through God and not only through the lens of your giftedness.
Heather Johnson: I think that's incredibly important. And I think, I believe that it starts at home. I believe that we model this with our children, do we not? So our children, we love them and value them, not because what they do, what they can accomplish and what they do for us, but rather just simply because they're our children. And if we instill that type of analogy for them, it's easy for them to understand that as image bearers of God, the God of the universe loves you and celebrates you and sings over you. And before you do anything right and before you do anything wrong, you are that. And that's good enough. That is the best identity to have. And as long as we're instilling that in them at home when they go to dance, then we're easily able to. To bring that back to that anchor. Who are you truly and why are you that? It's not because you just won this competition. It's not because you just lost it. Right. Your identity does not ebb and flow with your wins and losses. your identity is anchored in a child of God because reconciled with God through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. And so I think that is easy to point back to when things come up. Yes, our skills, our gifts, our talents, they're present, we have those and they're unique to us that the Lord has given us. And we can use those in God honoring and glorifying way, to send that worship back to him. But I think if we always talk about identity, regardless of whether there's something large on the line, then it's going to be most easy to anchor back to when it's questioned.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that goes back to discipleship. Heather.
Some pressures that dancers face when they view their identity through giftedness
And when we come back, we're going to talk about some really tough things. Some pressures that dancers and other kids who view their identity through the lens of their giftedness, those pressures that they can face. And most parents are so well intentioned, we're so proud of our kids. But the pressures that parents are facing these days in being able to post our kids accomplishments and share their giftedness so widely on social media, it can create some pressures on our kids that maybe we're not even aware that we're creating and maybe kids aren't even aware that they're carrying. We'll talk about how to recognize that, what to do about it, how to keep that in a healthy balance. We'll be right back after this break.
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Come Jesus Come by CeCe Winans : Sometimes I fall to my knees and pray Come Jesus, come Let today be the day Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna break But I'm holding on to a hope that won't fade Come Jesus, come We've been waiting so long for the day you return to heal every hurt and right every wrong Come Jesus,
Dr. Jessica Peck: come welcome back, friends. That is Come Jesus, Come by Cece Winans. And I love the heart of that song because I find myself thinking that a lot These days, as I read the news of things that are difficult and things that are just sad, frankly. But God has equipped us for such a time as this. And today we're bringing you some encouragement and some equipping, especially talking to families who have girls who are in dance. Now we know in the US there's about 7 to 8 million girls who are engaged in dance as an extracurricular activity. And There are about 3 to 4 million in a dance studio. And I'm talking today to Heather Johnson. She's the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministries. And we're talking about dance as discipleship. And before we finish, we're going to tell you some good news about how she's working all over the world. But for right now, we're going to sit in some of the challenges and continue talking about some of the challenges that dancers can face.
Dr. Jessica Peck talks about the pressures that dancers can face on social media
And Heather, before the break, I was talking about the pressures that dancers can face. And this can apply again to any student who is gifted in any way. And what I see as a healthcare provider is a lot of times a kid will take on that as their identity and they feel like that's their function within the family. And many times the family dynamic even starts to shift because our life is revolved around training, going to these events, supporting you through practice, you know, going to the, to the performances. I mean, any family who's in dance or any athletics knows, you know, about like eating on the run and all of those kinds of things. Sitting through very long rehearsals and recitals and all of those things. And I think it's really hard. Heather, I say this so gently because I'm a mom and I have the same tendency when we can post our kids on social media and we can, we want to share their giftedness because we see how God has gifted them. Sometimes it can feel like they're a product that we're producing and that can really cause some pressure that we didn't intend. So I would love to hear from your perspective. That's my perspective. What I see. What is your perspective on the pressures that especially Facebook, specifically right now, girls in dance.
Heather Johnson: Yes, Jessica, I would say that, the biggest contributing factor, I think that this has come about, the reason this has come about is because it is misplaced glory. Right. I believe that in dance, secular dance specifically, we are taught that the focus is self. It's on me. I grew up as a dancer. I was in a secular program. The owner of the studio that I was at was a Christian but we were still functioning under a secular structure. And so in that. I remember that pressure you're talking about. I remember that my friends in dance weren't just my friends. They were the competition. I needed to be front center. I needed to get the part, I needed to win. We needed to be the best. Right. And so even with auditions and that whole culture, body image, all of it, I know that it all comes from the fact that that self piece, that I've got to hold it together, I've got to do the best, you know, the competition, the comparison, all of it comes from that. And I would say that that is my, biggest observation of secular dance right now. I think it's damaging in so many ways. And I know that we, meaning parents, we don't want to put our children through that. We don't want to subject them to it. And we certainly don't want to be contributors of the issues. But I think, like you said, we can be at times, if we are celebrating when they win and we're very disappointed when they lose, then it's difficult for the child to separate out their worth and value, and say that it's not based on their actions. Right. It seems like, if. If I am more neutral, again, going back to that identity, who are you and why are you valuable? Just as a child of mine and then even more so as a child of God, then if. If I have. Okay, you won, that's incredibly excited. Let's celebrate. Let's celebrate that. But not have such a big down if they lose or if they don't get the part, or if they're not front center, if they're in the back row in the recital, if they had a bad time at class while training, everyone else got a double pirouette and they didn't. And everyone else, we're walking into the season where everyone gets, moved up and they graduate to the next level and they come back to their studio. And what if all your friends did and you didn't? Right. It's important for us as parents to also partner with them in a way that's healthy. And I get the social media pull. I get that we want to celebrate our kids and proud mom moments left and right. But I think if we take a step back and say, is this something that my daughter would want posted? Right. I mean, it goes back to the refrigerator and kindergarten artwork. I had my son come to me one time and say, I would rather you not put it up just for you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, that's so Sweet.
Heather Johnson: Yes. And that, told me something so important about social media and our kids. They need to be a part of that conversation as well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's really hard, Heather. It's really, really hard because you feel that pull and it's image crafting. That's the word that we use. We're crafting an image of our family that we want people to see. And of course, you know, we are so proud, but it is really hard, I think about, you know, as. Especially as par. And posting on social media. We are writing our kids stories. We are the caretaker, of that story. We are the caretaker of their digital footprint. And sometimes I think if I could, if you go back and look at your social media feed and you think about your motivations and, and what kind of story am I writing for my daughter to read and interpret? How would she look at this? Is this, you know, my mom's proud of me? Or is this, oh, my mom expects, like, this is what she posts. So this is what I need to produce because that's the level that's expected there.
Heather, you've talked about growing up in a secular dance framework
And again, Heather, I think families, we're not doing this intentionally. We absolutely aren't. But it goes back to that issue of identity. And you've talked about it several times about the difference. You, You've been very transparent in sharing your experience and, and growing up in a secular dance framework. How is what you're doing now different? Can you do some more compare and contrast and, and talk about how that has changed and maybe how that's helped to sort out some of this identity and pressure to image graph?
Heather Johnson: Yes, absolutely. I would say the biggest differentiator. Differentiator. I'll get there.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You got it.
Heather Johnson: Is that it's not focused on self. We take that focus off of ourselves and we put it back on the Lord. And when we do that, when we. When we take the focus off of self, we take the pressure off of ourselves. Because there's, such a pressure that we're not supposed to hold. It's a weight that the Lord did not design for us to hold. And we see throughout Scripture, we see it, when Lucifer fell, he wanted the glory that the Lord was deserving of. He wanted that worship. He stood in between it and it destroyed him. And we aren't meant to carry that. We are meant to be a condu. To send it back up to the one that deserves it. So when we put the focus on him, then the person next to in class, she ceases to be my enemy or my competitor. Right. Or frenemy. Whatever you want to call her, she ceases to be the one I'm trying to be better than. And she can truly just be a friend. And when I'm dancing, if I don't do it perfectly, I can release the results. Because it wasn't ending with me. I was letting that pass through me back to him. And we have a motto within our program and it's that we bring our best. And the reason we bring our best, it's the idea of excellence, is because the king of the universe and the creator of everything deserves that. He deserves our best. And we are expected to do that. But that's it. We release the results and we expect him to do what only he can do in it. And so as we see these kids come in, we see them lose these self conscious moments, these moments where they're afraid to mess up in front of their friends. They're willing to try harder, they're willing to do more because we have everyone in their own lane. And so it is much different than the secular world and the secular viewpoint of dance. And I think that taking that off yourself and putting it back on the Lord relieves much of that that we're talking about.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're talking about a really simple but very powerful shift and you're talking about that audience of one and that reframing. And I think so often, you know, we tend to overcomplicate it and think, okay, what communication should we have, what coach, what boundaries, what schedule, you know, those kinds of things. But really it's about the purp. You're talking about the purpose of why you're dancing. And, and the truth is, Heather, you know, we, we, everybody is probably, most people are probably familiar with dance moms, you know, that the show that really showed the underbelly and of course exaggerated, you know, some of the worst elements of that. And we have this all along, the continuum, the spectrum. But I think that there's parents who think like, okay, what do we look for in a place that's not going to be that, we want to be what you're describing. You have trained dancers and inst. Can you give parents some helpful guidance for what would be indicators that they're in a healthy dance environment? And even more than that, they're in a dance environment with a Christian perspective, with a purpose like you're describing?
Heather Johnson: Yes, I think there's a couple different ways to look at this. number one, you could be in a secular dance studio and you're hoping to just keep your daughter safe. number Two, you could be in a Christian studio that is still operating under a secular framework but has faith based or Christian name within it. Right? So you know that that's there and then you have a truly Christ centered, program or ministry that you're a part of. I would say speaking to those that are in a secular program currently, there are some easy questions that you could ask. You could ask the director or the owner that you know in the three areas of, of music, movement and costuming. Ah, are there ways like how do you handle this? Do you make sure that they're age appropriate, Defined by whom? are there opportunities for parents to hear music before it's chosen? Are there opportunities for parents to understand what the costuming choices are? are there opportunities to see the movement and have an approval process process before it hits stage? Because one of the worst things in secular programs, especially if you're a Christian family, that's a part of it because maybe that's all that's close to you by proximity and you show up for the recital and your heart drops when you see your baby girl on stage doing some things that are just completely inappropriate, not age appropriate, and more importantly in opposition of God in his kingdom. And, and so I say in that situation, definitely talk to the director and you can frame it in a way that just says, I, want to keep my daughter safe. I want to make sure that what she's doing is going to have a healthy emotional standpoint and physical, ah, spiritual, all the things. And so can you talk me through how you do things? And I, would say for the people that are a part of, of a Christian studio that still operates under secular frameworks, please reach out to me. We are here to support those of you that are in the trenches that are serving these kids and families day in and day out. We had a large shift in our ministry. We were facilitating these individual ministries ourselves and we shifted and now we are focusing on training and raising up and coaching and coming alongside those of you that are doing it yourselves. And so we would love to have a conversation with you. You might say, you know, I'm a Christian and I have a desire for our studio to go in this direction, but I don't know practically what that looks like because I hire our teachers and they don't know how to do that. They're not Christians or maybe they don't. They're not far along in their walk. And so what does this look like? We can help them with how to identify safe music. And it's not just whether profanity is in or not. It's the theme. Does this theme of this song, is it A, age appropriate? Is it B, in alignment with the Lord and his kingdom? Would it glorify him? Would these kids feel good about dancing in this way before his throne, in his throne room? If the answer is no, then we can help. We can come in and help you gently shift your program so that the focus is on the right thing. And then if you are truly in a program that is Christ centered in every way, praise God, because he's doing an amazing thing with raising up this next generation of worshipers in spirit and in truth. And he is popping these programs up left and right. And it's because he's redeeming dance. He's taking it back from the world and the enemy, and he's returning it to himself, the rightful creator and owner. So good for you. I'm glad that you found that program.
Heather Johnson talks about ways families can disciple their daughters through dance
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, we have a lot more to talk about. And, and dance doesn't happen in isolation. This is usually a family sport. It is part of a family rhythm and priorities. And we'll continue talking about some practical ways that families can disciple their daughters while encouraging the gifts that God has given them, whether that is dance or art or academics or music or whatever it is in the ways that God has gifted them creatively. And we'll also talk about what Heather is doing all around the world. And we'll start in Africa. We'll be right back with more from Heather Johnson, Redemptive Dance Ministries. We'll see you right on the other side of this break. Don't go away.
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Let The Church Sing by Tauren Wells and gio: We love one truth. We Crown one name we battle One king we follow One way 1 faith 1 gospel 1 cross 1 grace save 1 resurrection we share by grace so
: we no one like our God Only one we need Holy is our Lord Hallelujah. Let the church see no one like our God Only one we need Holy is our Lord Hallelujah.
Dr. Jessica Peck speaks with Heather Johnson about Redemptive Dance Ministries
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Let the Church sing by Taran Wells. And maybe if you're driving in your car, that song makes you dance a little bit. That's what we're talking about today. We're talking about girls and dance. There are about 7 to 8 million girls who are in dance as an extra extracurricular activity in this country. And I have said from the beginning of the show I recognize and respect that there are differing convictions about dance. And today we're talking to families who are engaging in dance. And I'm talking to Heather Johnson, who is the founder and executive director of a ministry called Redemptive Dance Ministries. And she grew up as a trained dancer in a secular environment, and now she is trying to. She is being successful. She's more than trying. She's been very successful in creating a model of dance as discipleship and as with the ultimate purpose to glorify God. And, Heather, you are not just doing this ministry in the United States. You are going around the world. And you and I were both in Africa earlier this summer working on different things. But tell us about how God is using this ministry around the world.
Heather Johnson: It's amazing, Jessica. And I'm so excited to hear more about your trip. yes, we were both in Kenya. we took a team of Americans. We had a team, from Nigeria, Uganda, Germany, Nepal, Zimbabwe, Kenya, and, the US and we put on our first ever conference in Kenya. So we have about 16 locations, all throughout the country of Kenya, through schools and churches and different communities where we are using this discipleship format, using the art of dance to attract and reach the youth. So in Kenya, like many areas of the world, church is seeing a decline with the youth in attendance. And this, everyone is looking for creative ways to bring them back into the church. And as you know, dance is such a strong foundation in the African culture. And it was, There's such an affinity for what we're doing. And so we're seeing it just. We have so many people on the waiting list. We can't possibly serve everyone right now, simply because we don't have the funding yet. And I say yet, prayerfully and faithfully, because I see what the Lord is doing here. But we had a conference where we brought in as many of the kids in these locations across the country that we could afford. And we were at a beautiful venue in Limuru, and we had this incredible team, modeling unity and diversity in leadership. And we put on a two day conference, for these students that really taught them that their movement is not only important and glorifying to God, but it can be the gospel in motion. You know, dance is a language that crosses all borders. And we're able to use it to pray and to glorify him, to edify the church, to bring together community and then also to see these kids just so incredibly blessed by the facility itself. You know, many don't have actual mattresses and indoor plumbing and we had three meals a day and two tea times and snacks. And so it was so incredible to bless them in that way and to teach them, Jon 4:23, to be a worshiper in spirit and in truth. The Lord can raise you up, exactly where you are. Because we don't have control over the families we're born into or the countries we're born into, but we do have control on whether we can stand firm and be the hands and feet of Jesus in the communities where he's placed us. And so the art of dance has allowed us to do that in the country of Kenya as well as Zimbabwe and here in the us so it's just very exciting to see how the Lord is using this movement to reach and unify his people. People.
Heather: I met with a group of high school girls in Kenya
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, it was so interesting. I met with a big group of high school girls when I was there and we did some teaching, some health teaching, and you know, you could look at us and think, I mean, we are so different. Here are these girls who grew up in Kenya, very different from me growing up in Texas. Different experiences. But when you come down to the way that God designed girls and the desires that we have, and we want to have identity and purpose and meaning and we want to be beautiful and cherished and all of those things, those heart issues were the same. And these girls in Kenya, Heather, oh my goodness, they blessed my heart so much. Because one thing that they, they were so relational and they didn't have the self consciousness that a lot of times we see here in America. And so they would lead in the devotional time and there was no like fancy band equipment or anything. Just one girl would be assigned as the song leader. She would just start singing a song. She would sing one line, line. Everybody else would start singing in the line and Then they would start to dance. And I will tell you, Heather, I am not gifted in that way. God did not gift me athletically at all. I'm more in the nerd camp, for sure.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But they were so gracious. And the way that they dance to praise the Lord, it was. It was something that will just stick with me, I know, for the rest of my life. And I'm so grateful for, the work that you're doing over there. And so it doesn't matter if you're in Kenya or if you're here, a lot of these issues are the same.
Heather: What are some simple conversations parents can have about dance?
But before, before we leave and end our time together, Heather, I want to go back to some more practical guidance for families. What are some simple conversations that parents can have? Because there's a lot of talk about dance. It's not just the rehearsals you've got. On the way to rehearsal, on the way home, on the way to competition, preparing for. For performances. What are ways that parents can use that conversation, that opportunity to shift the focus from pressure on you to, hey, you're there to glorify God.
Heather Johnson: That's good. That's really good. And I think all of those moments, you know, we as parents, as adults, we say, oh, I feel like a taxi driver, you know, I'm in the car all these hours, for my children to go to extracurriculars. We're going here, we're going there, we're going out of state. And those are incredibly divine opportunities. You know, sometimes I take the long way home, home, just so that I can allow my daughter, that's 13, to open up a little bit. And she does. She opens up without fail.
Parents should use transportation times to connect with their children about worship
And so I think that would be great for us as parents to prompt, you know, how are you feeling about this? What do you think the Lord will be most pleased with about your performances today? You know, what are you most excited to offer to him as worship? You know, what is your prayer for the day? What are you hoping to have protection against? How are your friendships? How are they going within your team, within your class? You know, is there anything concerning. Are you feeling self conscious in any way? Is there anything that we need to give over to the Lord and trust him with the results? You know, these are just some of the things off the top of my head. But I do believe that those opportunities, to connect with our children in those transportation times, I mean, the Lord says, you know, speak about this on your comings and your goings, when you're walking along the road and you're shopping and you're cooking. This is when we're to use these times to connect with our kids.
Dance can be character building, just like any sport can be
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, the other thing about dance is that it is intense and it can be character building, just like any sport can be. What particular character traits do you see that dance can be used to build?
Heather Johnson: Ah.
Dr. Jessica Peck: In a girl that will help to strengthen her Christian character?
Heather Johnson: I think confidence is incredibly important. And I do believe that beauty, and not the world's definition of beauty, but understanding that we're all made beautiful in the sight of the Lord. And, you know, we didn't really touch on body image too much. But I will say that that was definitely present in my upbringing and I know that it continues to be an issue today. And one thing that we have an opportunity as leaders in the dance industry to do is to teach a healthy body image, that the Lord is actually extremely creative and he has diversity. His diversity is evidence of that. And so the fact that we all look different and sound different and come from different areas, you know, is just a testament to that. And we can celebrate that. And so, that's an area too that we can say, hey, let's check in. How are you feeling here?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, it really is. And I would just, I'm going to say, obviously, from my perspective, to really have a good relationship with your healthcare provider, that's really important to have a primary care provider who you know and you trust. Because when you're doing dance, and especially on a competitive level, the risk for things that are associated with body image or there's a, condition called female athlete triad that can happen with girls, and that's three symptoms that go together. And sometimes that just happens, happens with intense exercise, with intense output. And so having somebody who's going to give you a balance, who's going to help you have those healthy versions of weight and height and growth and movement and shape and changes that happen through puberty, you know, that can be really uncomfortable sometimes for girls who feel like, you know, they, they, they don't know how to move in a body that's growing faster than they can accommodate, you know, that their balance is off and all of those kinds of things, I think it's really important. So I just want to put a shout out out there. I think it's important to have a good relationship with your primary care provider. And what about Heather, those parents, they who have daughters, I know that they're out there who dream of dancing professionally somehow. They want to do ballet. They want to open their own Christian studio. They want to, you Know, do something in college. What advice do you have? How can they encourage excellence, staying true to their Christian conviction? Not. And not, violating their convictions and not allowing that achievement to become an idol. I know that's a hard thing to address quickly, but what are the top priorities? Where is the starting place?
Heather Johnson: Yeah, I think number one. Yes. Amen. Do it. Go for it. That's amazing. I, would say if you're already in a program, talk to your director, let them know what your aspirations are. Because as a director we want to meet the needs of our families. We want to come alongside and support in all the ways necessary to create success. And I would say, proverbs 16, three, commit everything that you do to the Lord and he will establish your plans. And if this is something that you're laying down at the foot of the cross and you're saying, lord, this is a gift that you've given me and I want to give it back to you in an act of worship, he will honor that and he will bless the path and he will walk you through it and he will give you opportunities to do that. And the good news is that because there are plenty of Christ centered professional dance opportunities at this point in time. so it's a great time to be alive. It's an exciting time to be alive. And I think communication, first and foremost, talk to your people. And I know there was a dance studio that I was involved with, most of my life. And they came to me at one point and said, okay, I think we need to go over here. I think you need something a little bit more than what we have to offer. And so we're going to push you in this direction. And I think it becomes more about the best interest of the student than it is about keeping those numbers. and especially in Christ centered programs, they care more about the student. And I would say the Lord is even raising up dance missionaries, people, you know, we have people that work with us, that we are, working toward them being able to be a missionary in the field in the art of dance. Go. And checking on these chapters and coming alongside for continuing education with the leaders and these leaders, if you're wanting, say you're in a dance studio and you want to dance professionally and you want to open your own Christ center dance ministry. That's incredible. Definitely call us. We can take you on short term missions trips, we can do gap year activities. we can talk to you if you're ready. If you're in college and you want to start your own program. You can do it, but not have to do it in a silo and by yourself. We have all the resources and materials and things that you would need to do it. And you don't have to do it under our umbrella. We would just come alongside you to support because this is important. And the work that the Lord is doing across the nation and the world, the globe, even, in dance and the arts specifically, is incredibly important. And there's lots of people there to help you through this process.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Heather, I feel like you may have just ignited a flame of a hope, of a dream that maybe somebody thought wasn't even possible. Thank you so much, Heather, for all that you do. I know that every family is going to prayerfully arrive at its own convictions regarding dance. And today's conversation. We didn't. We. We really wanted to invite you to think biblically and intentionally about whatever gifts that God has entrusted to your children. And I am so grateful for all that you're doing as parents. You know, I think our greatest hope is that whatever stage our children stand on, that their lives will ultimately point to the one for whom they were created, and they will use those creative gifts in that way. And I'm so grateful for all that you're doing to help equip families to pursue, a A vision of Dance as discipleship. Thank you so much for that. And before we leave, I want to remind you, you can participate in Truth for Youth, the Bible campaign. If you want to give a Bible to a kid going back to school, you can call 800-733-4737. That's 800-733-4737. Or you can go to T F Y. That's Truth4Youth tfy.org these Bibles are only $2 and there are people standing by waiting to take your call. We. We you all. Not we you. You gave about 10, 000 Bibles yesterday. Let's see what we do today. Wherever you are and whatever ways you're using your gifts, I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
This week is Truth for Youth Bible Week here at American Family Radio
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have some great news to share with you. I always love when I get to share great news because there is so much doom scrolling and bad news in the world. But a good piece of news that I have to share with you is that this is Truth for Youth Bible Week here at American Family Radio. We talked about it yesterday. We had Tim Todd, and this is an initiative where we're inviting you to help us give thousands of free Bibles to young people across America. The goal this week is to give away 65,000 Bibles. Now, this Bible is a NewSong Testament. It is a comic version of the Bible that's still true to the gospel, but that is visually engaging. And we're giving them away. They're, they're giving them away to kids who will give them to their friends. And they're only $2. And yesterday when we promoted this, you all stepped up and gave about 10,000 Bibles on day one, which was really exciting. So if you want to do that, you can call 800-733-4737. That's 800-733-4737. Or you can go to tfy.org Truth for Youth Bibles.
For many Christian families, dance can feel like a complicated topic
Now, today we are, talking about something that can be maybe a little bit difficult, maybe a little bit controversial. I'm guessing there's going to be people out there with strong feelings. But I'm just asking you to go with me for a minute because we are talking about dance. I know. Why are we talking about dance? Well, let me tell you. For many Christian families, dance can feel like a complicated topic. Now, some of you may have grown up seeing dance as a beautiful expression of worship and creativity. Maybe you participated in dance, maybe you are in dance now. And others come from traditions where dance was discouraged or avoided or maybe even prohibited out of sincere convictions about holiness and guarding one's heart. And there are a lot of parents today I know because I talked to them who simply find themselves somewhere in the middle. They want to encourage their daughter's gifts, but they also feel overwhelmed navigating costumes and choreography and competition, culture and body image and messages that are communicated through the performing arts. And this is one of those conversations where faithful Christians can hold different convictions. I just want to be really clear about that. And Romans 14 reminds us to extend grace in areas of our conscience while seeking above all to honor Christ. So today's goal, we're not going to debate whether or not Christian families should participate in dance. I really want to encourage and equip families who have prayerfully chosen this path and want to do so in a way that that is honoring to the Lord. And the arts have always been part of God's story. Scripture describes art that God created. It describes dancing as an expression of celebration and worship and joy before the Lord. You can find this all throughout the Bible. And it. And scripture also reminds us that every gift, including athleticism or artistry or creativity, all of these gifts that God has given us are ultimately meant to glorify God. And the reality is there's millions of children who participate and dance each year. In fact, about 7 to 8 million girls in the US in 2022, according to the best statistics I could find. I'm glad it wasn't, you know, six, seven million girls. No, I. I know I did. no, it's really 7 to 8 million girls and about 3 to 4 million are in formal dance studios. And it's definitely one of the most popular extracurricular activities for girls. And so for Christian parents, a lot of them, the question is not just a simple should my daughter dance? But how can she dance? Way that strengthens our faith. And today's guest believes that dance is more than performance. It is actually a path of discipleship. I'm talking today to Heather Johnson. She's the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministries. Now this is a global discipleship ministry that equips leaders to establish Christ centered dance programs through biblical training, curriculum, coaching and practical resources. She has more than two decades in ministry, three decades in dance instruction and performance, and she has made it her mission to help instructors and families integrate artistic excellence with spiritual formation and their ministry. M Redemptive Dance Ministries has chapters in multiple countries. They train instructors, they serve thousands of children annually through discipleship centered dance programs and the Ministry focuses on developing healthy relationships which every kid everywhere needs. It also focuses on artistic growth and Christ centered leadership through movement and worship. So today join us as we're talking about how parents can thoughtfully navigate dance culture and cultivate healthy identity and young dancers and help children most of all to use the gifts that God has given them to glorify God.
Redemptive Dance is a discipleship ministry that uses dance for ministry
Heather, welcome back. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you for joining us.
Heather Johnson: Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. It's so great to be back with you as well. And this is such an important topic, so thanks for having me on.
Dr. Jessica Peck: well, it really is. And I talked with you just a little bit when we were both at NRB earlier this year. And I knew when we talked I thought, oh, that we have more to talk about. But for those who may have missed it, tell our listeners a little bit about you, about Redemptive Dance ministries, about your heart behind your work.
Heather Johnson: Yes, thank you. I grew up as a dancer. I started dance as three years old and I quickly fell in love with it. And it was definitely one of those things that I was gifted. I didn't have anyone else in my family that dance. Ah, the Lord clearly just gave it to me because he prepared the works that we would do later on. Right. And so in that, I grew to love dance. But it was a secular program. I started dancing at Cincinnati Ballet, and that secular program, went all the way through until I had this incredible encounter with Jesus and it changed my life forever. And I went on to dance professionally and teach all over the country, while also my faith was silent. And it wasn't until, 2011 that the Lord kind of took four years to break down everything I thought I knew about the dance industry and build me back up in his design of it. And wow, it's different. It looks vastly different than the world's dance industry. And it was at that point he gave me a vision of what this could look like and that it would just be everywhere and we would be teaching people not to use dance in the way that world taught us to use the dance, but to actually use the art of dance to reach people for him and to change lives. And it's been an incredible experience. I, would say it's less a dance ministry and more a discipleship ministry that uses the art of dance to reach the youth and give them a positive outlet.
Heather: How do you approach having a dance ministry with differing convictions?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Heather, I know having talked to many families, there are families with differing convictions. And this is, this can be a polarizing topic sometimes. How do you approach that having a dance ministry, recognizing that those convictions range across the spectrum. How do you approach that? With grace.
Heather Johnson: I was going to say lead with grace for sure. and you know, there's some truth to the Holy Spirit convicts us on, what we should be convicted of. And if someone's not hearing that from them, then I'm not the one to go tell them. I need to listen to families and support them in the way that they are wanting and needing support. And I would say it's very easy to say, let's just peel it back to the common denominator. And that's that we all, no matter where we are, in our faith walk, no matter where we are, as a country, as a family, we all want to keep our children safe. And so we could, at the very common denominator, say, let's provide safe dance. Let's make sure that the music is age appropriate. And I'm not just speaking of profanity, I'm speaking of the theme behind it. What is the costuming communicating? Is it modest? Is it covering our children up? And then there's absolutely no place for sexualized choreography movement at all in any dance form. Right. And so I think when we look at the different levels of conviction from families, we really just need to say there's no prerequisite. You don't even have to be a Christian to be a part of this ministry. But you do know that you will have safe movement, modest costuming, and no sexualized profanity themes that are go in opposition of the Lord, it will be 100% safe for your child.
Dr. Jessica Peck: There are a lot of families who are looking for that. And, and you do call this discipleship in motion. What does that mean? How does that look practically in your day to day ministry?
Heather Johnson: Yes, thank you. I am passionate about discipleship. And my definition of discipleship is taking someone that says, okay, I believe in Jesus, right? But we need to transform them into somebody that is following Jesus with their lives, their words and their actions, and yes, even their movement. And if we think about it closely, schools, disciples, sports disciples, social media disciples, secular dance disciples, the question isn't whether discipleship is happening, it's who's doing the discipling. And I think it's very important as Christian moms, dads, families, dance ministry owners, executive directors, people that are in these classrooms with sports, they are, thinking at a deeper level, like, how am I helping this person to grow in their knowledge of God and to grow in their ability to follow him and have that that faith walked out with themselves, so it becomes their own. And so this isn't a new concept. It's just dance is the vehicle that gets them in the door. And Jesus is who we hope they meet when they come.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, I know when a lot, when kids enter a competitive environment, or especially when they enter dance, they can take that on as their identity. You know, you hear, like, people say, I am dancer. And that's true for athletics. You know, it could be I am a football player, or I am, you know, an academician. Like, I am whatever, it is that they are. A lot of times kids can take on that activity that they have that giftedness as their primary identity. And sometimes that can be. That can. That can be really good. It can build confidence if it's viewed in the right way, but it can also create some unhealthy boundaries. How do you help parents walk that and dance? Because I know, Heather, you know, for me, as a healthcare provider, one of the things we look at, especially in dance, is concerns about body image and disordered eating or eating disorders or those kinds of things. And dance is not the only one. There are other sports that are known to have a higher incidence of that kind of thing. So how do you help create a healthy environment so that identity is viewed through God and not only through the lens of your giftedness.
Heather Johnson: I think that's incredibly important. And I think, I believe that it starts at home. I believe that we model this with our children, do we not? So our children, we love them and value them, not because what they do, what they can accomplish and what they do for us, but rather just simply because they're our children. And if we instill that type of analogy for them, it's easy for them to understand that as image bearers of God, the God of the universe loves you and celebrates you and sings over you. And before you do anything right and before you do anything wrong, you are that. And that's good enough. That is the best identity to have. And as long as we're instilling that in them at home when they go to dance, then we're easily able to. To bring that back to that anchor. Who are you truly and why are you that? It's not because you just won this competition. It's not because you just lost it. Right. Your identity does not ebb and flow with your wins and losses. your identity is anchored in a child of God because reconciled with God through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. And so I think that is easy to point back to when things come up. Yes, our skills, our gifts, our talents, they're present, we have those and they're unique to us that the Lord has given us. And we can use those in God honoring and glorifying way, to send that worship back to him. But I think if we always talk about identity, regardless of whether there's something large on the line, then it's going to be most easy to anchor back to when it's questioned.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that goes back to discipleship. Heather.
Some pressures that dancers face when they view their identity through giftedness
And when we come back, we're going to talk about some really tough things. Some pressures that dancers and other kids who view their identity through the lens of their giftedness, those pressures that they can face. And most parents are so well intentioned, we're so proud of our kids. But the pressures that parents are facing these days in being able to post our kids accomplishments and share their giftedness so widely on social media, it can create some pressures on our kids that maybe we're not even aware that we're creating and maybe kids aren't even aware that they're carrying. We'll talk about how to recognize that, what to do about it, how to keep that in a healthy balance. We'll be right back after this break.
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Come Jesus Come by CeCe Winans : Sometimes I fall to my knees and pray Come Jesus, come Let today be the day Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna break But I'm holding on to a hope that won't fade Come Jesus, come We've been waiting so long for the day you return to heal every hurt and right every wrong Come Jesus,
Dr. Jessica Peck: come welcome back, friends. That is Come Jesus, Come by Cece Winans. And I love the heart of that song because I find myself thinking that a lot These days, as I read the news of things that are difficult and things that are just sad, frankly. But God has equipped us for such a time as this. And today we're bringing you some encouragement and some equipping, especially talking to families who have girls who are in dance. Now we know in the US there's about 7 to 8 million girls who are engaged in dance as an extracurricular activity. And There are about 3 to 4 million in a dance studio. And I'm talking today to Heather Johnson. She's the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministries. And we're talking about dance as discipleship. And before we finish, we're going to tell you some good news about how she's working all over the world. But for right now, we're going to sit in some of the challenges and continue talking about some of the challenges that dancers can face.
Dr. Jessica Peck talks about the pressures that dancers can face on social media
And Heather, before the break, I was talking about the pressures that dancers can face. And this can apply again to any student who is gifted in any way. And what I see as a healthcare provider is a lot of times a kid will take on that as their identity and they feel like that's their function within the family. And many times the family dynamic even starts to shift because our life is revolved around training, going to these events, supporting you through practice, you know, going to the, to the performances. I mean, any family who's in dance or any athletics knows, you know, about like eating on the run and all of those kinds of things. Sitting through very long rehearsals and recitals and all of those things. And I think it's really hard. Heather, I say this so gently because I'm a mom and I have the same tendency when we can post our kids on social media and we can, we want to share their giftedness because we see how God has gifted them. Sometimes it can feel like they're a product that we're producing and that can really cause some pressure that we didn't intend. So I would love to hear from your perspective. That's my perspective. What I see. What is your perspective on the pressures that especially Facebook, specifically right now, girls in dance.
Heather Johnson: Yes, Jessica, I would say that, the biggest contributing factor, I think that this has come about, the reason this has come about is because it is misplaced glory. Right. I believe that in dance, secular dance specifically, we are taught that the focus is self. It's on me. I grew up as a dancer. I was in a secular program. The owner of the studio that I was at was a Christian but we were still functioning under a secular structure. And so in that. I remember that pressure you're talking about. I remember that my friends in dance weren't just my friends. They were the competition. I needed to be front center. I needed to get the part, I needed to win. We needed to be the best. Right. And so even with auditions and that whole culture, body image, all of it, I know that it all comes from the fact that that self piece, that I've got to hold it together, I've got to do the best, you know, the competition, the comparison, all of it comes from that. And I would say that that is my, biggest observation of secular dance right now. I think it's damaging in so many ways. And I know that we, meaning parents, we don't want to put our children through that. We don't want to subject them to it. And we certainly don't want to be contributors of the issues. But I think, like you said, we can be at times, if we are celebrating when they win and we're very disappointed when they lose, then it's difficult for the child to separate out their worth and value, and say that it's not based on their actions. Right. It seems like, if. If I am more neutral, again, going back to that identity, who are you and why are you valuable? Just as a child of mine and then even more so as a child of God, then if. If I have. Okay, you won, that's incredibly excited. Let's celebrate. Let's celebrate that. But not have such a big down if they lose or if they don't get the part, or if they're not front center, if they're in the back row in the recital, if they had a bad time at class while training, everyone else got a double pirouette and they didn't. And everyone else, we're walking into the season where everyone gets, moved up and they graduate to the next level and they come back to their studio. And what if all your friends did and you didn't? Right. It's important for us as parents to also partner with them in a way that's healthy. And I get the social media pull. I get that we want to celebrate our kids and proud mom moments left and right. But I think if we take a step back and say, is this something that my daughter would want posted? Right. I mean, it goes back to the refrigerator and kindergarten artwork. I had my son come to me one time and say, I would rather you not put it up just for you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, that's so Sweet.
Heather Johnson: Yes. And that, told me something so important about social media and our kids. They need to be a part of that conversation as well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's really hard, Heather. It's really, really hard because you feel that pull and it's image crafting. That's the word that we use. We're crafting an image of our family that we want people to see. And of course, you know, we are so proud, but it is really hard, I think about, you know, as. Especially as par. And posting on social media. We are writing our kids stories. We are the caretaker, of that story. We are the caretaker of their digital footprint. And sometimes I think if I could, if you go back and look at your social media feed and you think about your motivations and, and what kind of story am I writing for my daughter to read and interpret? How would she look at this? Is this, you know, my mom's proud of me? Or is this, oh, my mom expects, like, this is what she posts. So this is what I need to produce because that's the level that's expected there.
Heather, you've talked about growing up in a secular dance framework
And again, Heather, I think families, we're not doing this intentionally. We absolutely aren't. But it goes back to that issue of identity. And you've talked about it several times about the difference. You, You've been very transparent in sharing your experience and, and growing up in a secular dance framework. How is what you're doing now different? Can you do some more compare and contrast and, and talk about how that has changed and maybe how that's helped to sort out some of this identity and pressure to image graph?
Heather Johnson: Yes, absolutely. I would say the biggest differentiator. Differentiator. I'll get there.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You got it.
Heather Johnson: Is that it's not focused on self. We take that focus off of ourselves and we put it back on the Lord. And when we do that, when we. When we take the focus off of self, we take the pressure off of ourselves. Because there's, such a pressure that we're not supposed to hold. It's a weight that the Lord did not design for us to hold. And we see throughout Scripture, we see it, when Lucifer fell, he wanted the glory that the Lord was deserving of. He wanted that worship. He stood in between it and it destroyed him. And we aren't meant to carry that. We are meant to be a condu. To send it back up to the one that deserves it. So when we put the focus on him, then the person next to in class, she ceases to be my enemy or my competitor. Right. Or frenemy. Whatever you want to call her, she ceases to be the one I'm trying to be better than. And she can truly just be a friend. And when I'm dancing, if I don't do it perfectly, I can release the results. Because it wasn't ending with me. I was letting that pass through me back to him. And we have a motto within our program and it's that we bring our best. And the reason we bring our best, it's the idea of excellence, is because the king of the universe and the creator of everything deserves that. He deserves our best. And we are expected to do that. But that's it. We release the results and we expect him to do what only he can do in it. And so as we see these kids come in, we see them lose these self conscious moments, these moments where they're afraid to mess up in front of their friends. They're willing to try harder, they're willing to do more because we have everyone in their own lane. And so it is much different than the secular world and the secular viewpoint of dance. And I think that taking that off yourself and putting it back on the Lord relieves much of that that we're talking about.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're talking about a really simple but very powerful shift and you're talking about that audience of one and that reframing. And I think so often, you know, we tend to overcomplicate it and think, okay, what communication should we have, what coach, what boundaries, what schedule, you know, those kinds of things. But really it's about the purp. You're talking about the purpose of why you're dancing. And, and the truth is, Heather, you know, we, we, everybody is probably, most people are probably familiar with dance moms, you know, that the show that really showed the underbelly and of course exaggerated, you know, some of the worst elements of that. And we have this all along, the continuum, the spectrum. But I think that there's parents who think like, okay, what do we look for in a place that's not going to be that, we want to be what you're describing. You have trained dancers and inst. Can you give parents some helpful guidance for what would be indicators that they're in a healthy dance environment? And even more than that, they're in a dance environment with a Christian perspective, with a purpose like you're describing?
Heather Johnson: Yes, I think there's a couple different ways to look at this. number one, you could be in a secular dance studio and you're hoping to just keep your daughter safe. number Two, you could be in a Christian studio that is still operating under a secular framework but has faith based or Christian name within it. Right? So you know that that's there and then you have a truly Christ centered, program or ministry that you're a part of. I would say speaking to those that are in a secular program currently, there are some easy questions that you could ask. You could ask the director or the owner that you know in the three areas of, of music, movement and costuming. Ah, are there ways like how do you handle this? Do you make sure that they're age appropriate, Defined by whom? are there opportunities for parents to hear music before it's chosen? Are there opportunities for parents to understand what the costuming choices are? are there opportunities to see the movement and have an approval process process before it hits stage? Because one of the worst things in secular programs, especially if you're a Christian family, that's a part of it because maybe that's all that's close to you by proximity and you show up for the recital and your heart drops when you see your baby girl on stage doing some things that are just completely inappropriate, not age appropriate, and more importantly in opposition of God in his kingdom. And, and so I say in that situation, definitely talk to the director and you can frame it in a way that just says, I, want to keep my daughter safe. I want to make sure that what she's doing is going to have a healthy emotional standpoint and physical, ah, spiritual, all the things. And so can you talk me through how you do things? And I, would say for the people that are a part of, of a Christian studio that still operates under secular frameworks, please reach out to me. We are here to support those of you that are in the trenches that are serving these kids and families day in and day out. We had a large shift in our ministry. We were facilitating these individual ministries ourselves and we shifted and now we are focusing on training and raising up and coaching and coming alongside those of you that are doing it yourselves. And so we would love to have a conversation with you. You might say, you know, I'm a Christian and I have a desire for our studio to go in this direction, but I don't know practically what that looks like because I hire our teachers and they don't know how to do that. They're not Christians or maybe they don't. They're not far along in their walk. And so what does this look like? We can help them with how to identify safe music. And it's not just whether profanity is in or not. It's the theme. Does this theme of this song, is it A, age appropriate? Is it B, in alignment with the Lord and his kingdom? Would it glorify him? Would these kids feel good about dancing in this way before his throne, in his throne room? If the answer is no, then we can help. We can come in and help you gently shift your program so that the focus is on the right thing. And then if you are truly in a program that is Christ centered in every way, praise God, because he's doing an amazing thing with raising up this next generation of worshipers in spirit and in truth. And he is popping these programs up left and right. And it's because he's redeeming dance. He's taking it back from the world and the enemy, and he's returning it to himself, the rightful creator and owner. So good for you. I'm glad that you found that program.
Heather Johnson talks about ways families can disciple their daughters through dance
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, we have a lot more to talk about. And, and dance doesn't happen in isolation. This is usually a family sport. It is part of a family rhythm and priorities. And we'll continue talking about some practical ways that families can disciple their daughters while encouraging the gifts that God has given them, whether that is dance or art or academics or music or whatever it is in the ways that God has gifted them creatively. And we'll also talk about what Heather is doing all around the world. And we'll start in Africa. We'll be right back with more from Heather Johnson, Redemptive Dance Ministries. We'll see you right on the other side of this break. Don't go away.
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Dr. Jessica Peck speaks with Heather Johnson about Redemptive Dance Ministries
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Let the Church sing by Taran Wells. And maybe if you're driving in your car, that song makes you dance a little bit. That's what we're talking about today. We're talking about girls and dance. There are about 7 to 8 million girls who are in dance as an extra extracurricular activity in this country. And I have said from the beginning of the show I recognize and respect that there are differing convictions about dance. And today we're talking to families who are engaging in dance. And I'm talking to Heather Johnson, who is the founder and executive director of a ministry called Redemptive Dance Ministries. And she grew up as a trained dancer in a secular environment, and now she is trying to. She is being successful. She's more than trying. She's been very successful in creating a model of dance as discipleship and as with the ultimate purpose to glorify God. And, Heather, you are not just doing this ministry in the United States. You are going around the world. And you and I were both in Africa earlier this summer working on different things. But tell us about how God is using this ministry around the world.
Heather Johnson: It's amazing, Jessica. And I'm so excited to hear more about your trip. yes, we were both in Kenya. we took a team of Americans. We had a team, from Nigeria, Uganda, Germany, Nepal, Zimbabwe, Kenya, and, the US and we put on our first ever conference in Kenya. So we have about 16 locations, all throughout the country of Kenya, through schools and churches and different communities where we are using this discipleship format, using the art of dance to attract and reach the youth. So in Kenya, like many areas of the world, church is seeing a decline with the youth in attendance. And this, everyone is looking for creative ways to bring them back into the church. And as you know, dance is such a strong foundation in the African culture. And it was, There's such an affinity for what we're doing. And so we're seeing it just. We have so many people on the waiting list. We can't possibly serve everyone right now, simply because we don't have the funding yet. And I say yet, prayerfully and faithfully, because I see what the Lord is doing here. But we had a conference where we brought in as many of the kids in these locations across the country that we could afford. And we were at a beautiful venue in Limuru, and we had this incredible team, modeling unity and diversity in leadership. And we put on a two day conference, for these students that really taught them that their movement is not only important and glorifying to God, but it can be the gospel in motion. You know, dance is a language that crosses all borders. And we're able to use it to pray and to glorify him, to edify the church, to bring together community and then also to see these kids just so incredibly blessed by the facility itself. You know, many don't have actual mattresses and indoor plumbing and we had three meals a day and two tea times and snacks. And so it was so incredible to bless them in that way and to teach them, Jon 4:23, to be a worshiper in spirit and in truth. The Lord can raise you up, exactly where you are. Because we don't have control over the families we're born into or the countries we're born into, but we do have control on whether we can stand firm and be the hands and feet of Jesus in the communities where he's placed us. And so the art of dance has allowed us to do that in the country of Kenya as well as Zimbabwe and here in the us so it's just very exciting to see how the Lord is using this movement to reach and unify his people. People.
Heather: I met with a group of high school girls in Kenya
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, it was so interesting. I met with a big group of high school girls when I was there and we did some teaching, some health teaching, and you know, you could look at us and think, I mean, we are so different. Here are these girls who grew up in Kenya, very different from me growing up in Texas. Different experiences. But when you come down to the way that God designed girls and the desires that we have, and we want to have identity and purpose and meaning and we want to be beautiful and cherished and all of those things, those heart issues were the same. And these girls in Kenya, Heather, oh my goodness, they blessed my heart so much. Because one thing that they, they were so relational and they didn't have the self consciousness that a lot of times we see here in America. And so they would lead in the devotional time and there was no like fancy band equipment or anything. Just one girl would be assigned as the song leader. She would just start singing a song. She would sing one line, line. Everybody else would start singing in the line and Then they would start to dance. And I will tell you, Heather, I am not gifted in that way. God did not gift me athletically at all. I'm more in the nerd camp, for sure.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: But they were so gracious. And the way that they dance to praise the Lord, it was. It was something that will just stick with me, I know, for the rest of my life. And I'm so grateful for, the work that you're doing over there. And so it doesn't matter if you're in Kenya or if you're here, a lot of these issues are the same.
Heather: What are some simple conversations parents can have about dance?
But before, before we leave and end our time together, Heather, I want to go back to some more practical guidance for families. What are some simple conversations that parents can have? Because there's a lot of talk about dance. It's not just the rehearsals you've got. On the way to rehearsal, on the way home, on the way to competition, preparing for. For performances. What are ways that parents can use that conversation, that opportunity to shift the focus from pressure on you to, hey, you're there to glorify God.
Heather Johnson: That's good. That's really good. And I think all of those moments, you know, we as parents, as adults, we say, oh, I feel like a taxi driver, you know, I'm in the car all these hours, for my children to go to extracurriculars. We're going here, we're going there, we're going out of state. And those are incredibly divine opportunities. You know, sometimes I take the long way home, home, just so that I can allow my daughter, that's 13, to open up a little bit. And she does. She opens up without fail.
Parents should use transportation times to connect with their children about worship
And so I think that would be great for us as parents to prompt, you know, how are you feeling about this? What do you think the Lord will be most pleased with about your performances today? You know, what are you most excited to offer to him as worship? You know, what is your prayer for the day? What are you hoping to have protection against? How are your friendships? How are they going within your team, within your class? You know, is there anything concerning. Are you feeling self conscious in any way? Is there anything that we need to give over to the Lord and trust him with the results? You know, these are just some of the things off the top of my head. But I do believe that those opportunities, to connect with our children in those transportation times, I mean, the Lord says, you know, speak about this on your comings and your goings, when you're walking along the road and you're shopping and you're cooking. This is when we're to use these times to connect with our kids.
Dance can be character building, just like any sport can be
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, the other thing about dance is that it is intense and it can be character building, just like any sport can be. What particular character traits do you see that dance can be used to build?
Heather Johnson: Ah.
Dr. Jessica Peck: In a girl that will help to strengthen her Christian character?
Heather Johnson: I think confidence is incredibly important. And I do believe that beauty, and not the world's definition of beauty, but understanding that we're all made beautiful in the sight of the Lord. And, you know, we didn't really touch on body image too much. But I will say that that was definitely present in my upbringing and I know that it continues to be an issue today. And one thing that we have an opportunity as leaders in the dance industry to do is to teach a healthy body image, that the Lord is actually extremely creative and he has diversity. His diversity is evidence of that. And so the fact that we all look different and sound different and come from different areas, you know, is just a testament to that. And we can celebrate that. And so, that's an area too that we can say, hey, let's check in. How are you feeling here?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, it really is. And I would just, I'm going to say, obviously, from my perspective, to really have a good relationship with your healthcare provider, that's really important to have a primary care provider who you know and you trust. Because when you're doing dance, and especially on a competitive level, the risk for things that are associated with body image or there's a, condition called female athlete triad that can happen with girls, and that's three symptoms that go together. And sometimes that just happens, happens with intense exercise, with intense output. And so having somebody who's going to give you a balance, who's going to help you have those healthy versions of weight and height and growth and movement and shape and changes that happen through puberty, you know, that can be really uncomfortable sometimes for girls who feel like, you know, they, they, they don't know how to move in a body that's growing faster than they can accommodate, you know, that their balance is off and all of those kinds of things, I think it's really important. So I just want to put a shout out out there. I think it's important to have a good relationship with your primary care provider. And what about Heather, those parents, they who have daughters, I know that they're out there who dream of dancing professionally somehow. They want to do ballet. They want to open their own Christian studio. They want to, you Know, do something in college. What advice do you have? How can they encourage excellence, staying true to their Christian conviction? Not. And not, violating their convictions and not allowing that achievement to become an idol. I know that's a hard thing to address quickly, but what are the top priorities? Where is the starting place?
Heather Johnson: Yeah, I think number one. Yes. Amen. Do it. Go for it. That's amazing. I, would say if you're already in a program, talk to your director, let them know what your aspirations are. Because as a director we want to meet the needs of our families. We want to come alongside and support in all the ways necessary to create success. And I would say, proverbs 16, three, commit everything that you do to the Lord and he will establish your plans. And if this is something that you're laying down at the foot of the cross and you're saying, lord, this is a gift that you've given me and I want to give it back to you in an act of worship, he will honor that and he will bless the path and he will walk you through it and he will give you opportunities to do that. And the good news is that because there are plenty of Christ centered professional dance opportunities at this point in time. so it's a great time to be alive. It's an exciting time to be alive. And I think communication, first and foremost, talk to your people. And I know there was a dance studio that I was involved with, most of my life. And they came to me at one point and said, okay, I think we need to go over here. I think you need something a little bit more than what we have to offer. And so we're going to push you in this direction. And I think it becomes more about the best interest of the student than it is about keeping those numbers. and especially in Christ centered programs, they care more about the student. And I would say the Lord is even raising up dance missionaries, people, you know, we have people that work with us, that we are, working toward them being able to be a missionary in the field in the art of dance. Go. And checking on these chapters and coming alongside for continuing education with the leaders and these leaders, if you're wanting, say you're in a dance studio and you want to dance professionally and you want to open your own Christ center dance ministry. That's incredible. Definitely call us. We can take you on short term missions trips, we can do gap year activities. we can talk to you if you're ready. If you're in college and you want to start your own program. You can do it, but not have to do it in a silo and by yourself. We have all the resources and materials and things that you would need to do it. And you don't have to do it under our umbrella. We would just come alongside you to support because this is important. And the work that the Lord is doing across the nation and the world, the globe, even, in dance and the arts specifically, is incredibly important. And there's lots of people there to help you through this process.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Heather, I feel like you may have just ignited a flame of a hope, of a dream that maybe somebody thought wasn't even possible. Thank you so much, Heather, for all that you do. I know that every family is going to prayerfully arrive at its own convictions regarding dance. And today's conversation. We didn't. We. We really wanted to invite you to think biblically and intentionally about whatever gifts that God has entrusted to your children. And I am so grateful for all that you're doing as parents. You know, I think our greatest hope is that whatever stage our children stand on, that their lives will ultimately point to the one for whom they were created, and they will use those creative gifts in that way. And I'm so grateful for all that you're doing to help equip families to pursue, a A vision of Dance as discipleship. Thank you so much for that. And before we leave, I want to remind you, you can participate in Truth for Youth, the Bible campaign. If you want to give a Bible to a kid going back to school, you can call 800-733-4737. That's 800-733-4737. Or you can go to T F Y. That's Truth4Youth tfy.org these Bibles are only $2 and there are people standing by waiting to take your call. We. We you all. Not we you. You gave about 10, 000 Bibles yesterday. Let's see what we do today. Wherever you are and whatever ways you're using your gifts, I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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Jessica talks with Heather Johnson, founder of Redemptive Dance Ministries, about helping families pursue Christ-centered dance with wisdom and purpose.
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Chapters:
(00:00) American Family Radio thanks sponsor, Preborn for supporting pro life advocacy
(00:44) This week is Truth for Youth Bible Week here at American Family Radio
(02:03) For many Christian families, dance can feel like a complicated topic
(05:53) Redemptive Dance is a discipleship ministry that uses dance for ministry
(08:02) Heather: How do you approach having a dance ministry with differing convictions?
(14:35) Some pressures that dancers face when they view their identity through giftedness
(18:46) Dr. Jessica Peck talks about the pressures that dancers can face on social media
(24:21) Heather, you've talked about growing up in a secular dance framework
32:30) Heather Johnson talks about ways families can disciple their daughters through dance
(33:22) Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon in Culture Warrior movie
(35:14) Dr. Jessica Peck speaks with Heather Johnson about Redemptive Dance Ministries
(39:30) Heather: I met with a group of high school girls in Kenya
(40:53) Heather: What are some simple conversations parents can have about dance?
(41:55) Parents should use transportation times to connect with their children about worship
(42:53) Dance can be character building, just like any sport can be
(50:28) Preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion
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