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Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite part of the day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And I've got a big dose of it for you. Today we're going to talk about something that's tough but something that pretty much everybody is either going to go through or know someone who, who's going to go through. And we're talking about cancer journeys today. We're talking about how to trust God, carry you through your story. So many times people are shocked by a cancer diagnosis. It's a devastating word. And in fact, in my nursing practice in pediatrics, people, parents call it C, the big C, because it's so scary to even say it out loud. And whether it's your own diagnosis or someone you love, hearing, hearing those words, hearing that C word, that cancer word, it honestly changes everything. In the United States alone, nearly one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. It halts normal life in its tracks. It automatically changes your perspective. It forces difficult choices, it brings on overwhelming emotions and you are faced with a barrage of life altering medical decisions right there in the moment. But right in the middle of that fear and uncertainty, there are voices of hope. And my guest today, her name is Kim Harms. She is a two time breast cancer survivor. She's an author, she's an advocate and she has walked this road personally and alongside others. And her book we're talking about today, carried Through Cancer is what we're talking about. And it is 70 days of spiritual strength for from cancer survivors, from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. And there are, there's her own experience in there. There is research that she's done and dozens of real stories to remind you that you are never alone and that God meets you in the very heart of your suffering. And so today, before we start, I just want to say if you are going through a cancer journey, know that we are praying for you. We are praying that God would intervene in that situation and that he would meet every. And we pray that he will bring you to trust him to carry you through that story. And I also do want to give a shout out to all of the healthcare providers who are taking care of patients with cancer now. in my long career of teaching, I've taught in cancer hospitals and mostly in pediatric cancer, which is just absolutely devastating. But you know what? Every time I walk in and out of that hospital, I see healthcare providers who inspire me every single day, who give daily doses of hope in the face of utter hopelessness, who make that journey a little bit easier. And so to those of you who work in that field, please accept my thanks on behalf of everyone, my esteem, my admiration, my appreciation for the ministry that you have. And Kim, thank you for joining us today and sharing your own story. As I shared with you before this show, I know you've shared this story so many times, but it is still difficult to share a journey of cancer. But I'm so grateful for your courage, your transparency, your authenticity, and helping other people to know that they're not alone. Thanks for joining us.

Kim Harms: Well, thank you very much to help me. And you're right, it's a hard thing to talk about sometimes, but, but that's where God has me and he's good. So we talk about it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's right. Because, you know, it's like I said, either you. Everyone who's listening either has had a cancer journey or knows someone who has had a cancer journey. And you may know someone kind of peripherally, or you may someone. Or have even lost someone very, very close to you. Cancer has touched my family, and, you know, I have very, very dear friends who have had very, very difficult battles. And it is. It is tough to have a front row seat to it. I can't even imagine what it's like to be that patient. And so I would love for you to take us back to your diagnosis and just walk us through what that looks like and how your cancer journey began. Sure.

Kim Harms: yeah, I was first diagnosed when I was 40. Actually. I was diagnosed, one month to the day after my 40th birthday. And it was quite shocking. I actually discovered a lump myself, and went in and my doctor.

Kim Harms: Said I was pretty young.

Kim Harms: It's probably not cancer, but, you know, let's check and let's make sure you're okay. And, it ended up that I had, breast cancer. And I remember getting the phone call from my Doctor and just getting off of the phone, excuse me, and just collapsing into my husband Corrie's arms and just saying, I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. I don't want to have cancer. And, that was, that was day one. and it was, it was hard. It was a hard adjustment. and just your life really, as you said at the beginning, it just, it's. It changes, it's shocking. And there's so many things, so many decisions that need to be made and, and so many appointments and things you need to do, and everything happens just so quickly.

Kim Harms: It just abrupt mirage.

Kim Harms: and so that's, that's how it started. My first diagnosis. I was diagnosed at stage one. So the first time I had cancer, I, I didn't have to go through chemotherapy, radiation, some of those tough things. I had a bilateral mastectomy and then had reconstruction surgery and then was on hormone therapy for several years. and kind of, you know, I.

Kim Harms: Got past, got past.

Kim Harms: You don't really get past cancer, but I got back to a normal, to a normal place in life. And then, seven years after my first diagnosis, I discovered another lump, and took, me right back.

Kim Harms: and, it was a little.

Kim Harms: More advanced the second time. And so I did end up going then through. I had surgeries again. I had went through 16 rounds of chemotherapy, lost, all my hair. so I'm very thankful to have my hair back. and then went through radiation and, and am on ongoing, therapies. Just because once you've had cancer twice, you kind of get moved over into.

Kim Harms: This high risk category.

Kim Harms: So they watch me pretty closely and I'm still doing things, but it's, it's. I'm living a normal life with just a few little extra things that I'm doing.

Kim Harms: So that's.

Kim Harms: I am.

You share your experience of sharing your cancer diagnosis with others

Dr. Jessica Peck: I hear the emotion in your voice even now, and it is, it's so, it's so scary. And I think in those first days, and everyone's cancer journey is different, but sharing from your own personal journey in those first days, you know, you describe collapsing in your husband's arm, his arms, and just that barrage of information. And I think as the news spreads, because I'm sure you, you wonder that, like, do I tell people? Do I not tell people? If I do tell people, how do I tell people? And then people on the other side of that are wondering, what do I say? And I'm sure they come up and it's the sympathetic head tilt and they want to be compassionate, but they don't want to say the wrong thing. So some people just don't say anything. Some people might avoid you. People might be, you know, really just like, all of a sudden, I'm,

Dr. Jessica Peck: Going to live with you, and I'm going to cook for you. All of those things.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Walk us through those two sides of it. You sharing that and what you learned from how to share your diagnosis and what would be helpful for people in that support system to know how to respond.

Kim Harms: Sure. Yeah.

Kim Harms: One thing that was very hard and very surprising that you don't think about when you're not in it. But, you know, I get this diagnosis, my heart gets broken, and then it feels like I have to break everyone else's heart. So you have to make those phone calls. You have to call your mom, you have to tell your children, you have to tell your siblings, your friends. And it's just like, over and over, you're. You're making this phone call and you're breaking someone's heart. And it almost feels like you have to comfort the people that you're telling. and I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's a hard thing, because these people love you very much. So of course their hearts are going to break. it's a caring thing that's happening, but it's.

Kim Harms: It's really hard to be the person.

Kim Harms: That has to tell everybody. so that. That was a little bit shocking and hard to me. I did have a dear friend who I, told all. And my husband told people that were really in our close circle. And then some of those people in the close circle got the assignment of telling people, maybe friends that we aren't as close to, so we didn't have to do all of that.

Kim Harms: But that was, that was very hard.

Prior to being diagnosed with cancer, cancer made me uncomfortable

Kim Harms: and then you're right on the.

Kim Harms: Other side of it.

Kim Harms: Cancer makes people uncomfortable. I have a friend, a fellow cancer survivor, and she has this shirt that says, don't make this weird. And I. That is so perfect, because cancer makes people weird if they haven't been exposed to it. They don't know what to say to you, or they say completely inappropriate things to you. they try to comfort you, but in it, they're really not being comforting at all. And I had to learn to have grace for people because prior to me being diagnosed with cancer, cancer made me uncomfortable.

Kim Harms: I had a friend whose daughter was.

Kim Harms: Diagnosed, 10 years maybe or more before I was diagnosed And I look back and I think, man, was I a very good friend to her.

Kim Harms: I didn't know what to do.

Kim Harms: And so I feel like I didn't do enough. and so I try to remind myself, okay, that person that just said that really stupid thing was really trying to be comforting. They were doing the best they could. so having that perspective has helped. When, when people do get weird because they do.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kim, that's really convicting, honestly, because I hadn't thought about that. The, the burden that you almost feel to comfort someone when you're telling them and giving them that bad news, but then also feeling like you have to have grace for people who are well intentioned but, you know, hurtful nonetheless, that's really convicting. What do you think? What words of advice would you give for people, someone in their circle who's been diagnosed with cancer?

Dr. Jessica Peck: What are some things that you would say? Do not say this or say or do this.

Dr. Jessica Peck: What's the best way to approach that situation?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Besides, I love that. Buying a T shirt that says, don't make this weird. I love that.

Kim Harms: Yes. Yes. I, would say one of the.

Kim Harms: Things that really surprised me, and you wouldn't think people do this, but it happened very regularly to me, is people find out and then they say, oh, my aunt's sister died of that cancer. and I, I don't know why they do that. I feel like maybe they're saying, well, this at least you're not dying. I don't know. But that happened. Don't do that.

Kim Harms: don't.

Kim Harms: What I would suggest is, empathy. But try not to help and try not to do the trite little comments of everything happens for a reason. Well, even if everything does happen for a reason, it doesn't feel good for you to tell me that right now. I'm praying for you. That's awesome. can I hug you? That's awesome. can I, can I help you?

Kim Harms: A lot of people ask that.

Kim Harms: and which is great, but if there's a specific thing you can say, like, if you know this person really likes caramel, lattes, can you say, can I bring you a caramel latte tomorrow morning? Something specific like that. those are, those are better things. And you don't have to have the perfect thing to say. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And even saying, I don't know what to say, but I'm sorry. those are, those are good things to say, Kim.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's really helpful. Because I think we just don't think. And, you know, we're trying, like you said, most people are trying to be helpful. It's really hard, you know, to know what to say. And I think a lot of times in situations like this, it's almost like we feel like when we're hearing. When we're hearing the news. I'm just saying, as, someone who hears the news of cancer, all of a sudden it's like this spiritual pop quiz. Like, do you know the right comforting thing to say? Do you know the right scripture? Are you going to respond appropriately?

Dr. Jessica Peck: And you're desperately trying to measure up to that test, but you just can't.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Because nothing prepares you for that moment. So I think the words of advice that you've given are really, really helpful. Just saying, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. Can I bring you a caramel?

Dr. Jessica Peck: And can I pray for you?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Those things are really important. And if you can just start with those, just say, I'm so sorry. Can I pray for you? And I encourage you as my listeners to pray right then on the spot. There's so often I'm really trying to adopt this habit in my life where I'll say, like, oh, I'll pray for you. Like, and then I follow that up with right now.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And sometimes that can feel uncomfortable.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But I think there is never a prayer wasted. And I, you know, I have not had a cancer child journey, but I have been with many who have. And sitting on the other side of that, I have never had someone with cancer say, no, I don't want you to pray for me. I know that happens, and I know that could happen. But I'm saying most people with cancer will appreciate those prayers and, and take them very much.

Kim Harms says going through a cancer journey can refine your faith

Well, Kim, we're just getting started. We have a lot more to talk about. I really want to talk about your marriage and what that was like and going through a cancer journey, because that can be radically altered. And most importantly, I want to talk about your faith and where you saw God in unexpected places. And a cancer journey, a health crisis, any kind of trauma, tragedy, or trial. It tends to really refine your faith in ways that it didn't before, when you have a before and an after. We'll be right back with the more from Kim Harm. She's an author, a speaker, a, cancer survivor, and authored of the devotional carried through cancer 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. You know, someone going through a cancer journey who needs this encouragement in their hands. I pray that you'd be bold, put feet to your faith and get a copy of the book and just give it to them with the words. I thought this might encourage you. We'll be right back. On the other side of this break.

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Promises by Maverick City Music ft. Joe L. Barnes & Naomi Raine: You'Re the God of covenant and faithful promises Time and time again you have proven you'll do just what you said Though the storms may come and the winds may blow I'll remain steadfast And let my heart learn when you speak a word it will come to pass Great is your your faithfulness to me Great is your faithfulness to me from the rising sun to the setting same I will praise your name. Great is your faithfulness to me

Kim Harms is a survivor of two breast cancer battles

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Promises by Maverick City Music. And I don't know what you're going through today. I imagine many of you out there are going through something. Through a trial, through a trauma, through a tragedy, through something unexpected and frankly, unwelcome. And many times for many people, that is a cancer journey. And when we listen to a song like Promises, it can be hard to say, great is your faithfulness to me. But here's the truth. Truth. God didn't promise you that you would never get cancer. But he did promise to never leave you or forsake you. And whether it's your own journey or the journey of someone you know. Everyone can learn something from my guest today. A cancer diagnosis feels like being tossed into chaos. Your life is just turned upside down. I have been in the exam room so many times when people get a, cancer diagnosis and it is devastating every single time. And you see all of the appointments, the surgeries, the treatment schedules. But then there's the emotions, the family, the life that goes on around that. How does life go on when your life feels like it's being threatened? But here's the truth. Cancer may make you feel isolated, but you are not alone. God promised to never leave you and never forsake you. And I'm talking today to author Kim Harms. She knows this firsthand, and she is sharing her own cancer journey so beautifully, so authentically, so transparently. And she is a survivor of two breast cancer battles. And she shares raw, honest stories and faith filled encouragement to guide women and families through the uncertainty of all of that that is going through a, cancer diagnosis. Women and Men, her book, carried through cancer 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers can open the door to conversations that many people are afraid to have about some of the issues that are going on. So I pray that if you know someone going through a cancer journey or you're going through your own journey yourself, that you'll get a copy of this encouragement that God has written on Kim's heart. And so, Kim, thank you again for sharing your story. I, I, I can't say it enough. I know it's not easy, but it is such a gift to us and I'm grateful for before the break, we were talking all about the things that happen and the way your relationships change and the way that people respond.

Going through cancer brought your husband and you closer, you say

And I want to go back to your husband because you talked about falling into his arms when you first learned of your first diagnosis. What is that like? Because it's hard on marriage, that kind of health journey, especially a cancer journey. What have you learned and what encouragement would you give about fighting for your.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Marriage alongside fighting cancer?

Kim Harms: yeah, it's, it is very hard.

Kim Harms: I would say, going through cancer brought my husband and I closer. Like, we have a better relationship now than we did prior to cancer.

Kim Harms: We're closer because we had to battle.

Kim Harms: Through things and we had to think about what would life be like for him if I wasn't here.

Kim Harms: You know, just things that you.

Kim Harms: Don'T necessarily want to think about, but they're in your face. And so, so, yeah, I would say the diagnosis and going through treatment brought us closer in that we, we did this together. And he is such a servant. Like, he just took really good care of me. on the nights that I was like not able to sleep, I remember being up in the middle of the night on the recliner and we were watching episodes, old episodes of MASH for.

Kim Harms: Hours, just things like that.

Kim Harms: But he, he was wonderful. And through the whole journey, but.

Kim Harms: We did struggle to.

Kim Harms: I, think what happens is you're diagnosed with cancer and you still have all the normal stressors of your life, but then this cancer like just boosts.

Kim Harms: Your regular stress level up.

Kim Harms: So you are always living under a certain amount of stress. And we found living under that and then having the diagnosis, having all of these appointments, having all of these decisions that needed to be made, these like life altering decisions, while you're thinking about your mortality and you're like, oh, I, I need to, I need.

Kim Harms: To decide that, like, how do you do this?

Kim Harms: as we were going through that, I, we didn't realize it at the time, but we started to kind of, I mean we, we didn't realize why at the time, I should say. We started kind of butting heads on things. And we realized later that we had all these decisions to make and I was, I was making, I was making these decisions and I was not including him in my thought process or in.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Like.

Kim Harms: We weren't talking back and forth on, on the different options the doctors would give us. I would just say, hey, I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this. And he wouldn't necessarily have wanted me to do anything different than I chose. But I learned that it kind of hurt his feelings being left out of it. He felt like he was on the periphery and and that was hard for him. And then it was also hard for him. I think when you have someone in your family who has cancer, that person gets all the attention. And my husband's not selfish at all, not saying that he is at all, but everyone wants to help you. And they are providing so much support and so much energy and they get, they don't get all the support that you don't do.

Kim Harms: They don't get the gifts dropped off at the door.

Kim Harms: They don't, you know, they're, they're. It's kind of a thankless position in.

Kim Harms: A lot of ways. And so I think just all of.

Kim Harms: That, it, it caused some stress in our marriage that really honestly, it came to a head one night we Were m. We were going out to eat, to Johnny's Steakhouse, which is our, like, restaurant we go to as a treat to celebrate things. And we ended up arguing on the way there. And we were sitting in the parking lot of this restauran, and we are both bawling, and we're like, should we even go in there? Like, should we even go in there and eat or should we just drive home? And we, like, pulled it together and we're like, you know what? We're going to figure this out. We're going to get through it. What we're going to do is we're going to go in there and we are just going to enjoy this night and not think about this thing we're struggling with right now.

Kim Harms: And we did it. It was hard, but we did it.

Kim Harms: and we did. We worked through those things and we.

Kim Harms: Are better for it. I used to be a person who.

Kim Harms: Would bottle everything up.

Kim Harms: I'm not really an external processor,

Kim Harms: And I wouldn't share things with him. And now it's like when we were.

Kim Harms: Forced to learn how to do that.

Kim Harms: We'D communicate so much better than we used to. Not perfect at all, but that. Forced to learn some things about relationships.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, well, it is.

Many men feel helpless when their wives have a cancer diagnosis

I'm so glad that you brought that up because the thought of the caregiver not getting kind of the same level of attention that the patient has, and we see this, I this a lot with children who have cancer or chronic illness. Their siblings, you know, often are forgotten because, you know, just that person who's sick consumes so much energy, and that's where our mental energy is and our emotional energy and all of our physical energy. And I think it's really important to, to look at those kind of roles of, of husband and wife, because many times, speaking broadly, many men just want to fix it, and they can't fix it. When their wives have a cancer diagnosis. And. And if the shoe is on the other foot, I see many wives who just want to be the best caret. Men who are not accustomed to being cared for and are used to being the caretaker in their family or not needing that level of care, it can be really hard. And, regardless of however you deal with it, with your personality, your temperament, you know, however God has made your marriage, you need to invite other people in there to help you. And I know I've seen this with very dear friends who have had cancer journeys, especially for that caregiver, that spouse who was sitting by the hospital bed, you know, just night after night, after night, who maybe needs to go home and see the kids and take a shower and have a night they're not sleeping on a couch. It's hard to invite people into those spaces because when you're talking about a cancer journey, Kim, you know much better than I that we're talking about the, we're talking about humanity here. We're talking about getting sick, we're talking about incisions and surgeries and medical things that can make people really uncomfortable. And it can be hard to invite people in or even to let people in who are inviting themselves in. How did you see that external support system helping to stabilize your family? What did you learn about boundaries, about where to put them down and where to put them up?

Kim Harms: yeah, we did. You, you kind of learn after a.

Kim Harms: Diagnosis like this, you kind of get your core group of like oh, these are my people.

Kim Harms: And there's a lot, there's, there's like different levels of support systems. It almost feels like and thankfully in that I did have a group.

Kim Harms: Of just close knit friends who

Kim Harms: We had an ongoing just text thread throughout my first, my first fight.

Kim Harms: And and they were awesome in supporting me. and my husband.

Kim Harms: Thankfully at that, at that time he was an elder within our church.

Kim Harms: And he was able to really.

Kim Harms: Lean on some of those other guys that they had prayer meeting every week together and had a couple other friends.

Kim Harms: Who came along and supported him. And that is very helpful.

Kim Harms: And I think for a lot of men they, I, Corrie thankfully had more of a support system than I think a lot of men do have because it's having people speak into his life.

Kim Harms: So I'm very thankful for that.

Kim Harms: but you say having to put walls up with people, we, you had to learn like who, who, who's your core group they're going to share everything.

Kim Harms: With and then who, who's kind of.

Kim Harms: That next level that are like oh these people, what can they do for me? Oh, have, have them bring me meals.

Kim Harms: Like you, you kind of have different.

Kim Harms: Levels of, of help and, and support and man, I, if, if, if.

Kim Harms: You'Re a person out there who is.

Kim Harms: Has a loved one with cancer, I'd say figure out where you're at in that, in, in the realm of that. What's the best way you can support that person?

Kim Harms: Are you a person where you can you know, drop off the, the latte or drop off a meal or.

Kim Harms: Are you a person.

Kim Harms: Be like okay, I'm spending the night with you. In the hospital tonight, Corrie can go home and be with the kids. because all of that is needed.

Kim Harms: but certain people are better suited for certain things than others, I guess, if that makes sense.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It absolutely does.

Kim, you have three sons who were young when you were diagnosed with cancer

And then thinking about your children and all of this, you have three boys who were young when you were diagnosed.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And I read in your bio that you, you have a dog who thinks.

Dr. Jessica Peck: He'S your kid too.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So that's, that's so funny.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But, it's hard. I can't imagine what it was like, to, to walk them through this. Because you want, I imagine you think in your mind how you want to respond and how you want to support them, but you have physical limitations and honestly, you have emotional limitations too, just because of the journey that you're going through. How did you share this with them and how did you see this impact their faith?

Kim Harms: yeah, the first diagnosis, sharing the, with the kids.

Kim Harms: I mean, I can, I can remember where everyone was sitting in the living room and I can remember their reactions.

Kim Harms: And it was very hard. I couldn't speak. Corrie had to do that that night. and we, my boys don't cry a lot, but there are tears for sure that night. which it's, it's so hard. and they're, they're scared then, like you are. And you don't want your kids to be scared. You want to protect your kids, kids. So, yes, telling them was very hard. but it did. Obviously they have to walk through this with you and if they can see that you are leaning into your faith. Jesus does not leave us when things are hard. In fact, he comes so close and I wanted my kids to see that. Like, of course I'm sad they're going to see me cry. I'm scared they can see these emotions. But I was like, I want them to see that Jesus is here. so in the future, when they have other hard things in their life, which certainly they will. Right? Breast cancer, of course, is very common. At some point they're going to have a friend or a sister in law or you know, a mother in law, somebody they know, excuse me, that's going to have cancer. And so I wanted to be able to, help them through that and guide them toward Jesus so that when this comes again, and for us it did come again, right? I had it a second time that they can look back and say, oh, look what, look what God did for us last time. Why would he not do that this time too? so that was kind of My, my hope it was all really hard. but man, we had some good, good times in that too because we focused on the good. and another thing I did was just try to keep their lives normal. We don't need to drop and stop everything because I have cancer. I can, if I'm feeling okay, I can go watch your basketball games and we will get people to get you to practice and you can still go to youth group and so try to stay as normal as possible, while walking through a very non normal thing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's really helpful because I'm thinking about what you said earlier about if you know someone who has a cancer journey, kind of figuring out where do I fit in their ecosystem, what gifts do I have, what resources do I have that I could offer to them specifically? And so I think often, especially for kids, when there are kids involved. Exactly what you said, Kim. Just keeping things as normal as possible, as much as possible, while also knowing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That nothing seems normal.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But just having those routines like yes, you can get to basketball practice and yes you can go to church on Wednesday nights and yes, we'll have taco Tuesdays or whatever that is, that can be really helpful to speak into that and just to say, hey, can I take, you know, we're going, we're on the same sports team, can I pick up your kid for practice? And that can just be a normal thing. All of those little gestures of kindness, all of those little gestures of normalcy and maintaining the schedule and that literally builds kids brain for resilience. And so I think sometimes people who are on the outside of a cancer journey who want to help, they want to fix it and they think, well, what, what is that? You know, I, I brought tacos on Tuesday. How is that helping? That is literally helping build their brains for resilience. And it's showing them the hands and feet of Christ. It's showing them the, that faithfulness that's helping them to not feel alone, to know that God will never leave us or forsake us. And again, the book is called carried through cancer. 70 days of spiritual Strength from Cancer Fighters, Survivors and Caregivers by Kim Harms. When we come back, we'll take a deep dive into the faith element of this. Where is God in that cancer journey? We'll talk about that when we come back. Back. There is someone you know who needs to get a copy of this devotional and I pray that you will gift it to them. We'll see you on the other side of this break. And my father Your great grandfather fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on a big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no, she stayed back home. She and a lot of her, friends worked really hard in, ah, a factory because the men had gone off to war and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes too.

Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies and I'll tell you all about it.

The Cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin: Who told you Grace can't reach the messed up ones like you? Has the devil made you believe the lies he tells are true? When you're sure that you're the one who's wandered too far off it's not too late Just come home to the. Cross. Come and see a savior's love that would die to make you new Nothing you have ever done can change what mercy's done on for you and if you ever wonder if you're worth so great a cost look up and see the cross.

Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is the cross by Anne Wilson and Chris Tomlin. And that is a message of hope.

Dr. Jessica Peck: For those of you who are going.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Through a journey, whatever it is that you're going through. Today, we're talking about cancer journeys which hit too many families. I have seen it professionally and personally and had a front row seat to some excruciating journeys. It is devastating. And you can wonder, where is God in all of that? Where is God in a, cancer journey? And my guest today, Kim Harms, is someone who has lived it, who has asked that question, who has seen God work. And she has written a devotional. It comes out September 30th. It's available for pre order so you can order it now and give it to someone, you know, who needs it. Just giving them that little bit of encouragement from someone who has walked that road. It is so different when you meet somebody who has walked in those shoes. And I've seen this from a clinical standpoint, it is an amazing thing to watch when you see someone that you know has experienced a cancer journey, meets another person who has also walked that road, and then all of a sudden they start talking in, a language that you don't understand. They speak in emotions and shared emotions that you don't see. And don't feel there is something so encouraging about having someone in the same boat. And whether you're walking a cancer journey yourself or whether you are walking alongside someone, everyone can learn something today about how we can best support people who are walking through that kind of trial and how we can be the hands and feet of Christ to them, how we can carry one another's burdens and in so doing, fulfill the law of Christ. And, Kim, I do see people ask that question all the time. Where is God in that cancer journey? Because, you know, he could intervene. And you see people who are healed, and you may pray for healing, and.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That'S not your journey.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And everyone's journey is different.

Did you have a struggle with your faith during your cancer journey?

Did you have a struggle with your faith? And where did you. What did you learn about God in your cancer journey?

Kim Harms: Yeah, I don't know.

Kim Harms: I don't.

Kim Harms: I wouldn't say that I ever struggled with that. My faith, that I ever. I never really went through the why me, God?

Kim Harms: Why me?

Kim Harms: but that's not saying it wasn't really hard.

Kim Harms: and there weren't days that, I mean, I didn't.

Kim Harms: Obviously didn't want it to happen.

Kim Harms: I wanted him to answer some of my prayers differently than he did. I. I do remember the second diagnosis when I. When I was diagnosed. The second time, I. I did,

Kim Harms: Have a conversation with God while I was on my knees in my bedroom and bawling.

Kim Harms: that was like, I don't want to die.

Kim Harms: please, m. Please let me live. And I know you're not supposed to make deals with God, but I said, if you let me live, I.

Kim Harms: Won'T be ashamed of you.

Kim Harms: and not that I was ashamed of him before, but it was harder.

Kim Harms: To speak about my faith in him.

Kim Harms: And so I said, I'll do chemo. I'll do whatever it is. Just let me live so I can tell people my story. and he did that. And, And I'm so thankful for that. So that. That is, That's God answering a prayer in a. In a strange way, right? I. I, before that, I had said I'd asked him if this lump could not be cancer. and I didn't get that answer. But he. He answers in hard ways sometimes, but he's. He's always there. and when I look back, I think, okay, he. That happened. He's allowed this because he wanted to do this. and, Not that I want to go through cancer again, not that that it was something I would ever ask for, but I Am in a place now where I could not have been if I hadn't walked through this really awful stuff.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean, Kim, that. So real and so raw and. And just so human. And I look back at the prayers that were prayed in the Bible.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You're making me emotional here. But you say you're not supposed to.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Make deals with God.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, there were plenty of people in the Bible who definitely did that. And we see God's grace in that, right? Like we see Gideon asking for the.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Fleece to be dry. No. Can it be wet?

Jeff Chamblee: No.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay, well, how about this? Show me a sign. I mean, we see that human. That humanness of just, you know, our.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Our humanity. And I. I think I find comfort in praying and asking God earnestly for what I want and taking comfort in knowing from Psalm 84:11, which is a verse that I hold onto so tightly, that the Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing. Thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. And so I feel like, you know, if I ask him m. And he says no, then even though I see that as a good thing, he doesn't, because he's not going to withhold any good thing from me. And I think about he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. How will he not also, along with those graciously give us all things? This is a God who gave his son for me. And he has my best interest at heart, even if I can't see that. But that's. That's really hard to do when you're looking at your husband, your precious sons, and your life, you know, and knowing that that's there.

Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey?

Where did you see God show up in unexpected places in your cancer journey? Because I'm sure you had moments where he met you in unexpected way to unexpected time.

Kim Harms: Yeah. one. One specific thing in this. This goes. Actually, it's a story that starts in my first diagnosis and comes back in my second, after. When I was working on my first book, which was after I'd been through treatment the first time, I had a lot of medical terminology in that book. It was a book that's trying to. It guides called Life Reconstructed. And it's kind of guiding you through how to make decisions on surgeries and what those surgeries are like and what you're, what you're going to go through in recovery and just a lot of medical terminology in there. And I had prayed, God, would you please bring a medical professional to me who would be willing to read through this to make sure that me, an English major knows, like is writing the correct thing about this medical science stuff that I'm not good at. And I cold called, it's Katzman Breast center in Des Moines, Iowa and asked if I could speak with Dr. Beck, who is just in Iowa. She's a well known breast surgeon. And they.

Kim Harms: I was able to connect with her.

Kim Harms: And I told her what I was doing and I asked if she might be willing to take a look at this book.

Kim Harms: Well, she did.

Kim Harms: And then she said, you know what, I'm going to go through this chapter by chapter and then I'm going to call you and we are going to go through things and I'm going to let you know if there's things that maybe you could say more clearly or a section you could add here or there. And she did that through the whole book for me and then we became friends. So I've been connected with her since my first diagnosis. Well then when I discovered the second lung lump, I reached out to my friend breast surgeon Dr. Beck, and she was not part of my team the first time, but the second time she became my surgeon. And I remember being wheeled back for my lumpectomy and get this tumor out by my friend Susan, who is Dr. Beck. And her face was the last one I saw as I fell asleep, in this surgery. And I'm like, like God is so good that he would bring me this person like years ago who then became such an important part of my second journey with cancer. So that's just a huge, I mean that's a really big God thing that happened, over the course of my cancer journey.

Dr. Jessica Peck: There is no such thing as coincidence.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And I believe that God is so kind in that way to even work out the little tiny details, you know, just to do that. And, and really little details that seem big at the time.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And I was reading, I'm I'm looking right now because I'm trying to find it. She even endorsed this devotional, didn't she? I think I saw her name in there.

Kim Harms: She endorsed it?

Kim Harms: Yep.

Kim Harms: And she wrote my forward for my first one and yeah, she's just been such a big part of this.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, that's right. I see it right here.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Here's her quote.

Dr. Jessica Peck: As a physician, I seek God's word in the morning and read a devotional that always seems to dovetail into my day. And carried through cancer. Kim Harm shares the stories of women who have gone through difficult physical and Emotional events. When you read their stories, you are drawn into their lives. I love Philippians 4, 6, 7, because it comforts me when I become anxious about life's twists and turns. And Jesus tells us many times throughout the Bible that he will be with us always wherever we go. And Kim reminds us of that truth in our devotional series. May God be glorified in the sharing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And, you know, one of the things.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That I've been talking about, Kim, here on this show is that it's a little bit in vogue right now to.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Hate on healthcare professionals, which is very, like a. Unusual place, you know, for us to be.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But there are some great physicians, there are great nurses, there are great healthcare providers who love the Lord and who are doing such amazing work. And I love that you shared that she was a part of your story. And in this devotional, you share other stories as well.

Dr. Jessica Peck: How did this come together and what.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Can the reader expect?

Kim Harms: Yeah, I, It started, I just like the. My story about Dr. Beck. I have other instances right through my treatment that I'm like, oh, that was God. I know God just did that. And as I'm talking to other women who have been through cancer, we just shared. We started sharing stories. And, I'm like, God is working in a lot of people and a lot of hard things. And so that's kind of. I thought I want to share other people's stories. And I. Before I, Before I had cancer, well, I graduated from Iowa State with a degree in English, and I minored in journalism. And so before I had kids, I was a newspaper reporter. And I'm really a reporter at heart. And I thought, I want to share other people's stories. And so that's kind of how it started. I started just reaching out to people. we'd talk for 30 to 45 minutes an hour sometimes, and I try to find the story, within their, Their.

Kim Harms: Their cancer.

Kim Harms: sometimes they had the idea. They're like, God did this. And, and that's where our story went.

Kim Harms: And other times we would just talk.

Kim Harms: And we'd get into it and I'd be like, oh, this is it. This is.

Kim Harms: This is a really big thing that God did.

Kim Harms: And so I would, I. I took those and tried to make them in kind of concise story form and ended up with a book of 70 of them. And, interviewed lots and lots of women, from variety of ages, var. Variety of cancer diagnoses. and I'm m just so excited to be able. What God did, not just in mine life, but man, in so many women. so, yeah, that is. That's kind of the gist of that, of how it started, how it came about.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean, 70. That's a lot.

Kim Harms: Yes, yes. 10 of those are my own personal stories. yeah.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, that's a lot. And that just tells me that this is something that. That just touches everyone. You know, there's really no one who is untouched. And so what words of encouragement would you give?

Kim, I want you to speak directly to those people who are facing cancer

Kim, I want you to speak directly to those people who are walking their own personal cancer journey. You have been in that boat. You are in that boat. How. What would you say to them to encourage them at this point?

Kim Harms: M. one thing I would say is it's. It's.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It.

Kim Harms: The emotions are all okay. It's all. It's okay if this makes you angry, it's okay if this makes you sad, it's okay if it makes you fearful. You're going to have all of these emotions. I would say allow yourself to work through those things. in fact, I. I remember at one point being very frustrated and angry, and I was like, I'm going to give myself 24 hours to feel this way, and then I'm going to.

Kim Harms: To.

Kim Harms: I'm gonna. I'm gonna give it to God and I'm gonna move on. And it sounds easy.

Kim Harms: It's not.

Kim Harms: But, just knowing those emotions you have, whatever they are, are normal, and you need to, allow yourself to work through them. So do them. Feel the feelings. pray, like, pray like you've never prayed before. And, and ask God specifically to show you things. ask him to answer specific prayers. because when you see those little things, those little specific answers, it's just such an encouragement. and let people help you.

Kim Harms: It's okay.

Kim Harms: Like, let people do the things for you.

Kim Harms: It's,

Kim Harms: We feel like we should fight this.

Kim Harms: We should build strong and do this on our own. But, man, let people help.

Kim Harms: Let your family help. let people love you. Well, because it is a blessing to.

Kim Harms: Them to be able to be a blessing to you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That can be one of the hardest things, is to let people in.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But I remember when I was going through something, someone who was trying to help me said, stop trying to stop me from. From giving you a blessing. Like, I'm trying to be obedient to the Lord, and you are preventing me from obeying God because of your stubbornness. And so that is so hard to let people in.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But when you do, in that space, my goodness.

Kim shares her testimony of trusting God to carry you through your cancer journey

Well, thank you so much, Kim, for letting us into your journey today. I. Again, just hearing the emotion in your voice, it's made me emotional because this is such. This is such a tough thing. But to see hope in the middle of it all and to see you sharing your testimony of trusting God to carry you through your story, even when that story is a cancer journey again. This devotional is going to be available September 30th. You can pre order it now. Carried through cancer 70 days of spiritual strength from cancer fighters, survivors and caregivers. and I pray for those who were going through a cancer journey and those who are supporting someone going through a cancer journey that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace in circumstances that seem anything but peaceful. I pray that your caregiver team would have wise minds and skills, hands and compassionate hearts. And I pray for your healing. Thank you for joining us today. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Kim Harms, two-time breast cancer survivor and author, talks with Jessica about her journey and her new devotional (releasing September 30, 2025) "Carried Through Cancer: 70 Days of Spiritual Strength from Cancer Fighters, Survivors, and Caregivers"

Rx for Hope: Trust God to Carry You Through Your Story

 https://kimharms.net/