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: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for healthy Families. And listen.
Thousands of Christians face persecution worldwide because they bear the name of Jesus
In a world where hope seems hard to find, we are going to find it today in the most unlikely of places. It is so easy for Christians in America, for the most part, to take their religious freedom for granted. We can gather openly for worship. You probably own multiple copies of scripture, the Bible in your home. You can speak freely about your faith. We do have extraordinary freedoms. But around the world, millions of believers face harassment, imprisonment, discrimination and even death simply because they bear the name of Jesus. And according to ministries serving the persecuted church, hostility towards Christians remains a daily reality across dozens of nations. And it makes the stories of faithful endurance of these Christians as relevant today as they were in the pages of the NewSong Testament. This month, Christians around the world will observe the day of the Christian Martyr. This is a global day of remembrance honoring those who have laid down their lives rather than deny their faith in Christ. And this is occurring on June 29, which church tradition holds as the day the Apostle Paul was martyred for his faith. And this year's focus is the extraordinary story of Perpetua. This is a 22 year old noble woman and nursing mother who was martyred in A.D. 203. That's 203 after refusing to renounce Jesus. And her story preached, preserved in part through her own prison journal, which I just find absolutely amazing, continues to Inspire believers nearly 2,000 years later, just like her life will today.
Todd Nettleton has interviewed hundreds of persecuted Christians over 25 years
Joining us today is friend of the show, Todd Nettleton. He is vice president for Message of the Voice of the Martyrs and host of the Voice of the Martyrs Radio. For more than 25 years, Todd has traveled the world interviewing hundreds of persecuted Christians across more than 30 countries, bringing their hopeful stories of courage and faithfulness to the global church. And today we are talking about this day of the Martyr. talking about Perpetua. But we're also going to give you an update on a bunch of other developments that are happening. This is one of the most frequently asked questions that I get is about the persecuted church. How can we pray? And we will talk about that today. Because I know for some, it can feel like these stories are very distant. For. For some, they can feel very scary and very frightening, especially for children. For some, it's just something that you read in history books or maybe a headline. But for Todd, these are not statistics. These are real people. These are his friends, pastors, parents and children whose lives have been forever shaped by the gospel. And his ministry has been built around amplifying their voices and reminding the church that if one member suffers, one, we all suffer. But in suffering, in great suffering, there is great hope. Todd, so glad to have you back on. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Todd Nettleton: Thanks so much. Good to be with you.
June 29 is the day of the Christian martyr
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, in summer reading, I do want to let my listeners know you have written a book that is very compelling. I've got it right here in my hands. When faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. You and I have talked about this before. I would encourage families to consider that for family reading. But in talking about Perpetua, we. Walk us back to that. Todd, tell us about this day of remembrance. And tell us about this remarkable woman. Because if I am getting my facts right, you've actually stood in the arena where she died. And I want to hear all about it.
Todd Nettleton: I have. So, Perpetua, amazing day of the Christian martyr, as you mentioned, June 29, the anniversary of the apostle Paul being beheaded outside the city of Rome. And so that's the significance of that date. That's why that was chosen as a day to honor the lives of the martyrs, people who laid down their life for Christ. Perpetua's story is really amazing. And I'm glad you brought up the fact that most of what we know about her story is what she told us, because she wrote it down. She kept a journal while she was in prison before her execution. And, you know, as we were working on the Day of the Christian Martyr, we do a short video each year. This year, the video is about Perpetua. and I was researching about that. And that is, maybe the oldest example we have of a woman's writing that still exists today. So. So it is one of the very first, if not the very first example, of a woman writing down her thoughts. And it's still existing now. You know, 1800 years later. so that's amazing, whether you're a Christian or not, whether you know the story or not. It's just amazing. The history of it and the fact that. That she's so significant, that because she's writing this down, she's telling her own story. The other thing that's really amazing to me about her story is this was a young lady, 21, 22 years old, and she had a baby. and in fact, her own father brought the baby to the prison where she was and said, perpetua, you don't have to mean it. Just light a candle for the emperor, bow your head, say the words they want you to say, and then come home and raise your child like you're a mom. You've got to make the decision that's. That's best for a mom. And famously, Perpetua pointed at a vase and said, hey, what is that? And he said, it's a vase. And she said, now, could you call it something else? You know, could you call it a stick? Could you call it a dog? No, you can only call it a vase. And she said, I'm a Christian. You can only call me a Christian. You can't call me a follower of the emperor, a worshiper of the emperor, because I am a Christian. And even if that means I'm going to die, you still can't call me anything other than a Christian. And so she eventually was tried. She was led to the arena. They loosed the wild animals on her. They did not, in fact, kill her. she was actually killed at the end by a gladiator. But one of the other famous and amazing parts of her story, the animal attacks a rabid heifer, is the way they describe it. Attacks her, knocks her to the ground, tears her clothes. She straightens out her clothes to protect her modesty, and then asks for a hairpin. And being a man, I hear that I'm like, you're being killed. Why would you care about your hair? but she. The significance of that was if your hair was disheveled, if your hair was all down in that culture, it meant that you were in mourning, you were grieving something. And perpetual wanted it to be very clear. She was not in mourning. She was not sad about this. She was getting ready to meet her heavenly bridegroom. And she would not even portray a sad person. So she, you know, said, hey, can I have a hairpin? I need to fix my hair. She fixed her hair. Eventually. She actually guided the gladiator sword to her throat. She was executed there in the arena. And as you mentioned, I. I have been in Tunisia. I stood in the arena. It is. It is very much a sacred spot. It's interesting because the government of Tunisia is an Islamic government. They don't really draw attention to this Christian tourist site, this heroic Christian site. You kind of have to know somebody who will take you there, or else you kind of miss it. but it is an amazing place. And her story is so amazing of just that faithfulness. Even leaving behind her baby, even when her own dad said, hey, you know, tell them whatever they want to hear. Come home, raise your child. Nope, I am a Christian, even if it cost me. What an amazing example.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is an amazing example. Todd and I shared with you right before we went live, that I have a bunch of college students who are in and out of my home this summer. And they had. When I was telling them about this, they had all heard about this. And one of my daughters even said, oh, yeah, that's what I remember. Just her fixing her hair and just being so dignified and just so confident and. And her choice. And it is really amazing the fact that we have her own word, her own story, her own testimony that is held there from there. And, you know, this can seem really far away, Todd, but in my conversations with you before, and knowing about the Voice of the Martyrs in reading your book, these stories are.
Voice of the Martyrs focuses on Christians facing persecution around the world
There may not be gladiators, but these stories are still remarkably similar of persecution to the point. Point of death. What are you seeing? and what is Voice of the Martyrs doing about that?
Todd Nettleton: You know, it's interesting. Even in Tunisia, where Perpetua was killed, it was Carthage in those days. Now it's Tunisia, there is still persecution. if you come to faith in Christ out of an Islamic background, the likelihood is your family is going to turn against you. your family is going to make life difficult for you. Sometimes that includes maybe being locked in a room. Maybe it includes being beaten. Maybe it includes being kicked out of the family home. and their attitude is, hey, we're a Muslim family. And now you say that you're not a Muslim anymore. So obviously you don't have a place here. Like, you don't belong. You're not supposed to be here. There have even. I've heard stories in North Africa of, young people whose parents essentially, act as if they were dead. Like, you're a dead to us. So I'm never going to speak to you again. I'm certainly not going to include you in the Will and the inheritance. I'm not going to help you in any way. You are dead to me, literally. And that is how parents will act. And so in Tunisia today, that is still reality, that Christians are suffering. Christians are paying a price for following Jesus Christ. And one of the things that we see around the world, and I think we hear that in the United States, and our picture is somebody who's really depressed and really, boy, they're just barely getting by. And yes, there are times where it is very, very difficult. But, overwhelmingly, the Christians that I've met have a sense of joyfulness, that is completely counterintuitive. And it's like, wow, how could you be happy? And I'm reminded often of the book of Acts, and the apostles were beaten by the Jewish council. And, and it says they left the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Christ. That sense of rejoicing, that spirit of joyfulness, is still evident against our brothers and sisters who are being persecuted around the world. And yes, there are those who are giving their lives. I think of, places like North Korea, where if you are found with the Bible, at the very least, you are going to go to a concentration camp. If you survive long enough to get there, you could very well be executed. pastors in China are going to prison, pastors in Eritrea. There are seven pastors in Eritrea right now who have been in prison for more than 20 years. None of them has been charged with a crime. They've never had a trial. They just got abducted and went to prison. And they're still there now, 20, 22 years later. so this suffering is not something that just happened in 203 AD with Perpetua. This level of suffering and oppression and persecut is something that's still happening today.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that's one of the powerful things about the Day of the Christian Martyr. Because it's not just to commemorate Perpetua. People like Perpetua, who lived a long time ago, who were historical figures. It's also to remember believers who are facing persecution today.
Why is it so important for churches to intentionally remember and honor martyrs?
Todd, why is it so important right now for the church to meet this moment, to participate? There's still some time, because this isn't happening until June 29th, which. Why is it so important for churches to intentionally remember and honor these stories? Not of life, not only of lives that are lost, but persecution that is also going on, much like you just described?
Todd Nettleton: You know, I think there's two, two ways I would answer that. The first is because Scripture calls Us to remember. Hebrews 13:3 specifically says, Remember those in prison as if you were in prison with them. So, so that idea that we're supposed to remember, we're supposed to be aware. The scripture also says when one part of the body, we're all supposed to feel that pain. So there's that scriptural call. The other thing that happens as we remember and as we tell these stories is, I think we ask the question of ourselves, okay, well, what would I do in that situation? What would I do if I was a young mother with a baby and it said, hey, light a candle for the emperor or be killed and I have a baby, like, I need to be a mom, I need to raise this child. What would I do in that situation? And I think what happens when we ask that question is we kind of need to go to the Lord and say, lord, I know what the right answer is. I know what the Sunday school answer is. Of course I would stand up and I would preach the gospel, but Lord, help, help that to be true. Help me to really, in that moment, have the courage to stand up. And the other thing that happens is we are challenged, perpetual. Was willing to die for Christ. most of us, the worst that's going to happen to us as we live for Christ and as we witness for Christ is an awkward conversation. Like somebody maybe chuckle at us and say, oh, so you're one of those religious fanatics? That's for most of us living in America, that's a worst case scenario. Like, I could become the butt of a joke. so hopefully, as we think about Perpetua, as we think about pastors in prison in Eritrea and China, we think, wow, I have such a privilege of being in a country where I'm not taking a life and death risk to share Christ with my neighbor. In fact, I'm not taking much of a risk at all. surely I could do that. Surely I could have that conversation. So hopefully we're inspired as we hear the stories of these martyrs as we remember them, who, hopefully we're inspired to advance the gospel where we are as well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Todd, that is my prayer as well. And when we come back, we'll talk more about the persecuted church globally. And Todd will tell you about some of the pastors, some of the ministers, some of the missionaries that he's working with. We'll also talk about how you can honor the day of the martyrs. We'll talk about that when we come back.
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I Believe by Phil Wickham : I, believe there is one salvation, one doorway that leads to life, one redemption, One confession. I believe in the name of Jesus Christ. I believe in a crucifixion by his blood. I have been set free. I believe in the, resurrection. Hallelujah. His life is death's defeat All praise to God the Father. All praise to Christ the Son. All praise to the Holy Spirit. Our God has overcome the king who was and is and ever more will be in Jesus mighty name. I believe.
Would you say that I believe if faced with persecution and death?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is I Believe by Phil Wickham. that's definitely in my top 10 playlist right now. Not in my fake top 10 playlist, that's 142 songs, but my real top 10 playlist. And so often when we listen to music like that, we kind of sing along the words, but really, if you stop and think about what they're saying that I believe and what Phil Wickham lays out in the lyrics for the creed of that. Just saying this is what I believe as a Christian. And it is harder to say that than you think it would be. And I think a question that many Christians have is Would I say that I believe if I was in the face of persecution and death? And that's what we're talking about today. And I'm talking to Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs. He's the author of when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. Always really compelling, because this isn't just a history book. This is going on right now. And you can be part of Day of the Christian Martyr, which will be observed 29th. And so there is time to bring this to the attention of your community, of your church. And it's so important for us to recognize this happening now. Voice of the Martyrs is featuring Perpetua, who was a young woman and nursing mother who lost her life in the. In about 200 A.D. and Todd has just given us a really compelling account of her loss. And she wasn't a pastor or a public leader or a diplomat. She was just a young mother who faced an imposs choice between preserving her earthly life and remaining faithful to Christ. And her witness continues to echo across centuries because it reveals what it looks like to say, I believe over everything else. And Perpetua's life really reminds us that Christian courage is not about the absence of fear. I'm sure she was confident, but to think that she didn't have one iota of fear would be really hard. But the presence of a greater love, that's the greater story. And her story, again, is not ancient history. It's a living testimony to the power of faith in eternity. And as you said, Todd, you know, there's most. Most American families are not going to face imprisonment for their faith. And many parents are asking, how do we raise our children? Who will stand firm in a culture that increasingly challenges biblical convention? Conviction. And the stories of the persecuted church can help, but there's a balance in attention. And I have talked about this before. How do we, as families, present stories like Perpetua who don't scare some kids, especially some kids who may be more prone to fear? I know you've talked about your own father reading the stories, but at the same time telling them a reality of what happened and giving them courage to face their fear.
Todd Nettleton: One of the things I would point people to is, on the resources, along with the resources for Day of the Christian Martyr, along with the video about Perpetua, there is a guide for having these conversations with children. Children. so it is a great tool for parents and grandparents and Sunday school teachers, because, like you say, we don't want to freak them out. We don't want to make them fearful, but we do want them to understand, hey, when you follow Jesus, there is a price to be paid. Like, that has always been true. Jesus said, the world hates me, and if you follow me, the world will hate you also. So how do we do that in a way that is appropriate? And voice, of the martyrs has some great tools. We actually have some children's books. I, read one of them to my grandson just Yesterday and about St. Nicholas, the gift giver, who we know as Santa Claus, but who was actually a persecuted Christian. and so there are ways that we can do this in an age appropriate way. and like I say, it's such an important thing for them to understand even at a young age. Like, Jesus is not just like, make everything smooth and make us never have any trouble. Sometimes when we follow Jesus, that leads us into trouble. But he is with us. He will be with us. He promised to be with us. So communicating that in an age appropriate way, such an important thing for us as parents and grandparents.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, I confess I really love Christmas and I love the story of the real St. Nicholas. And I have no problem at all with you reading that to your grandson in June. In fact, it's great because we can read stories of Christians and Christian courage anytime. It doesn't have to be just on the day of the Christian martyr. It doesn't have to be just at Christmas time reading those stories. I, I have talked about that and just applauding that, Todd, because reading is such a great way to bond relationships and to increase faith. And, you know, I am thinking about this as we're approaching the 250th birthday of our nation. We're starting to see, really, cities gear up for that and the nation gear up for that. And, and you have such a unique perspective because, you know, as we're thinking, there's a lot of things that we can be grateful for for being in America, but one of the things that we should be most grateful for is the religious freedom. And you have the seat of traveling and working with Christians all over the world and seeing the extraordinary freedoms that we take for granted. What are good ways that we can pull that into the conversation without making it sound like we're lecturing, you know, like, oh, you should be so grateful for the freedoms you have. Don't, you know, the persecuted Christian, What's a good way to have that message? But really to be grateful for the freedoms that we have and more importantly, to exercise those freedoms and sharing the
Todd Nettleton: gospel with others I think that's, that's the biggest part of the equation is exercise them. How, you know, how do you build muscle while you exercise it? How do you make sure our freedoms are still there? Make sure they don't get infringed upon. You exercise them. And we need to understand that when we, and my wife and I do this every morning, we open up the Bible and we read together. Well, that's a freedom that we have. Like, we have multiple copies of the Bible on the shelf. We have multiple apps on our phone that have the Bible in it. That in itself is a privilege and such a blessing. I have talked to Christians in other nations who say, oh, I prayed for 10 years that I might someday have my own Bible. And I, I think about them on the days when I don't open my Bible. It's like, well, I'm just like the people who don't have one now because I didn't open it, I didn't read it. So I think that's a key is, is just, understanding that and exercising our freedoms. And I think we should be reminded to be thankful as we have this 250th anniversary. What, what an amazing blessing it is to be an American citizen, to have been born in this country that I had no control over, that the, the Lord somehow chose me to be born here. We need to be thankful and to celebrate that and to recognize we do have freedoms. Let's make sure we're using them well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's contrast that with some of the things and some of the pastors and missionaries, people that you're helping all over the world. I want to walk through some of the updates that you have and just tell us what is going on, instruct us how to pray. One of the first reports that you have comes from Early Rain Covenant Church in China, who's founding past is serving a nine year prison sentence. And while this has been a long time, there's an update on this and we'd love to hear you tell us about Pastor Wang Yi.
Todd Nettleton: Yeah, I, I am such a huge fan of Pastor Wang Yi. He is, is really as a hero, is a heroic figure to me and to many others. So he is serving a nine year prison sentence. In fact, he's like in year seven, I believe he has two years left after this December. And one of the amazing things about Pastor Wang Yi is he wrote a letter for after he was arrested and gave it to his church leaders. He said, hey, I know I'm going to be arrested, at some point when that happens. Here's my letter. Just go ahead and put it out there after I'm arrested. So this was not a surprise to him. This is not something he hadn't considered. He had considered it. He had chosen to continue leading a church, to continue sharing the gospel in communist China. He knew he was going to end up in prison, but he still was obedient to what the Lord had called him to do. So that was now seven plus years ago, he was arrested. Yesterday, his church was raided yet again. His church, early Reign Covenant Church, was holding a meeting. Couple really interesting things about this. So they had actually rented like a hotel meeting room a hundred miles away from the city where their church is. So this was not like they were meeting in the city where they've already been raided numerous times. They actually went 100 miles away, organized meeting. I'm sure thinking, hey, maybe the police will leave us alone. If we're 100 miles away from here, we'll kind of be under the radar. Nobody will know what's going on. Well, obviously somebody knew what was going on. The Communist officials sent 60 to 70 officers, some of them police, SWAT teams, local religious officials, and broke up this church meeting. They detained 33 people initially. Now, that included two elders from the church and then 31 others. Thankfully, late last night, the 31 others were released. Now, they had had all of their ID documents scanned. They had been questioned very heavily, interrogated by the police. But then eventually they were let go. The two elders are still in prison. And one of the frustrating things about Chinese law is you can detain someone for 15 days, really on a whim. You don't have to charge them with anything. You don't have to really show any evidence. You don't have to go before a judge. you can just grab anybody for 15 days. And so both of these elders right now are on what they call administrative detention, up to 15 days. And then at that point, we'll see what the charges against them are. But, this is one more example of the control that the Communist Party in China wants to have over the church. Here they are meeting in a hotel ballroom. They've paid to rent the facility. They've gone 100 miles away from home to try to get out from under the, the thumb of the Communist police. And still their meeting was raided. 33 people detained by the police. and their pastor is still in prison. This is one more example. One of the things for people to understand about China is when I came to vom, it's now it's now been 28 years ago, but it's a long time ago. But we would talk about China, and we would talk about persecution differently in different provinces of China. Religious enforcement was kind of handled at the provincial level. And so you could point to one province and you would say, man, there's a lot of persecution. There's pastors in jail, people being arrested. But you could point to another province and say the church there is really operating without a lot of interference. like they're a church meeting. It's. They're not really hiding what they're doing, and the authorities are leaving them alone. That was years ago. Today, religious enforcement is driven by Beijing, it's driven by the national government, and it is happening all across China. in fact, we've heard from Chinese Christians who say that Beijing is sending out trainers to go to local police around the country and train them in how to enforce religious restrictions. And Christians know when those trainers from Beijing arrive in their city, things are going to get worse for them. It is going to become more difficult for them. And this is another example, this most recent raid just. Just 24 hours ago against Early Rain Covenant Church.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's not lost on me, Todd, that that is so different than an experience that you would describe in America. It's not lost on me that you said earlier that probably I know that there are some other things that have happened. And so setting aside those more severe cases, the most that you're going to experience is, oh, I don't know if I can tell my coworker. I don't know if I can tell my neighbor. They might think I'm weird. They might be angry. This, what you're describing happening in China is very, very different. And I encourage my listeners to pray for this pastor, pray for this church, and pray for Christians in China.
Todd Nettleton traveled to Southeast Asia with Voice of the Martyrs
Let's move over a little bit, Todd, because I know since you and I saw each other last at the National Religious Broadcasters, convention, that you have traveled to Southeast Asia, and you are seeing some amazing stories of God's faithful servants there. Can you walk us through a little part of Southeast Asia and share your experience?
Todd Nettleton: One of the things that came out of our trip, we encountered several young people. We talked about perpetua being 21 or 22 years old. we met several people in that same age bracket, who are actively ministering for the gospel, even when it costs them. And, one of the groups that we met with was a group called Any3. And their goal is to share Christ anytime, any place with anyone. Those are the three Ennis in any three. And they are now leaving their home country and going out to some of the surrounding nations. And their goal and the way their program runs is you share Christ with five people every day and you have accountability, on Sunday evening. So how did it go this week? How did. Did you hit your goals of five people a day? They have training another night of the week to help you become more effective in sharing your faith. And you know, as I, as I met these young people telling me about that, I. The picture I had in my mind is like a spring break trip or like a ywam, you know, three month dts. And I said to one of them, I said, so, you know, how long did you. Are you in this program? Is it like one year? Is it like, you know, six months? And she looked me square in the eye and said, until we die. And I was blown away. I was like, okay, so this is a lifestyle. This is something you've committed your whole life to. And the reason we from Voice of the Martyrs were meeting them is when they went to one of those neighboring countries, they got detained by the Ministry of Religion. They were taken into court. They were interrogated for two days. They left the courthouse and thought they were going to jail. thankfully they instead were taken to the airport. They were put on an airplane and said, hey, you've been blacklisted. Don't come back here for five years or else. one of these young ladies said, I am counting down the days until the five years is up because I can't wait to go back and continue sharing the gospel in that place. And I was completely floored by their boldness and faithfulness and completely unaffected by two days of interrogation and being threatened and being kicked out of a country. Things that would make me very nervous and think about, oh, do I need to change anything about my life? And. And they're like, no, we can't wait to go back there and keep doing what we're doing. The other really impactful.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm gonna hold you right there. The other impactful conversation. We will come back to that right after the break. You don't want to miss it. Todd Nettleton with Voice of the Martyrs. He's gonna tell you about that other impactful conversation. What else is going on in Southeast Asia, in India and in Nigeria. We'll talk about what is going on with the persecuted church. As a reminder, you can participate in Day of the Christian Martyr. There are videos that Voice of the Martyr has that you can use. There are resources, as he said, that you can talk with children. I encourage you to pray for the persecuted church. And we'll be right back with more from Todd Nettleton.
: America's 250th birthday. It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. afa.net/topics/250 God only knows.
God Only Knows by FOR KING + COUNTRY: God only knows what you've been through.
Dr. Jessica Peck: God only knows what they say about you Welcome back, friends. That is God only knows for king and country. God only knows what is facing the persecuted church Today. I'm talking to Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs. We've talked, many times before. He is the author of when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. I would encourage you to pick that up for summer reading. And you would think, oh, my goodness, that sounds so heavy and so dark and so depressing. But as Todd and I have talked about many times now, one of the greatest ironies in talking about the persecuted church and talking about Christians who are martyred for their faith or in danger of being martyred for their faith, there is nowhere else on the planet that you will encounter a kind of hope and a kind of joy that defends, defies human understanding. And I remember, Todd, the last time you were on, you were telling me about a woman who had been in prison and you had gone to check on her, and you asked her how the time was in prison, and you said her face lit up and she smiled and said, oh, that was such a lovely time. And I think these kinds of things, if they don't encourage your faith, I don't know what will because it doesn't make sense. Now, Todd, we, as has been all over the world and he has been in places. we were talking about a young woman named Perpetua who was. Who was martyred in about 200 A.D. and he stood where she is, but he also has stood where people are. Now we're just walking through his global tour and talking about the realities facing the church around the world. And we were right in the middle of Southeast Asia before the break, Todd, and you were telling us about these young people who committed to share the Gospel with five people a day until they die. That was their words, until we die. And you were just about to say the most encouraging part of that is. And I'll give it to you there.
Todd Nettleton: Well, there they are still doing that. And, you know, I, I felt so convicted about it. Like, if I got to the end of this year and said, hey, I shared Christ with five people this year, I would pat myself on the shoulder and I would want everyone else to say, look what an incredible great job you're doing as a follower of Christ. They share Christ with five people a day, every day, in a Muslim country where they could actually be attacked. They could actually have trouble. And I was so humbled and so in awe of their commitment. In fact, as we were having the conversation, I was talking through a translator, and the translator said, I'm just asking, like, like, what do you actually say? And one of these young ladies, she just began to share the gospel with the translators. Like, she just jumped right into it. It's like, okay, let's go. I'll tell, I'll tell you what I say. I'll say it. I'll say it to you. And, they were just amazing. On fire. Followers of Jesus Christ. We also had the chance to meet a young lady who has a very difficult story. she was born in a Muslim family, was a devout Muslim herself. She went away to college and she made friends with a Christian who said, hey, why don't you come to church with me? And, she began to go to church with this friend. And over time, she chose to leave behind Islam and follow Jesus Christ. And, her family was starting to have some questions. Well, then she decided that she was going to be baptized. Now, in a Muslim context, that is often seen as sort of the point of no return. Like, if you're looking at a Bible, you can and say, well, I was just curious about what the Christians are teaching, but if you get baptized, you're going to have a tough time saying anything other than, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. That's why I got baptized. Her parents came to the university town where she was studying, which is about four hours away from her home. They literally put her in the backseat of the car between two of her siblings and took her forcibly back to their house. you are not going to get baptized. In fact, you are not going to study any longer. We're not going to leave you here where you can be subject to these quote unquote negative influences. You are coming back with us. And she said her dad was so angry, she assumed that he was going to kill her.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Like.
Todd Nettleton: Like that wouldn't be uncommon in that culture for someone who has brought shame on their family, in their eyes, to be killed. And so they are in the car, and she's between two of her siblings, and she can't get out, and they've taken her phone, and she can't contact anyone to say, hey, pray for me. And she said, I was in the backseat of the car and I was praying. And she said, I asked God, God, are you really with me? And really, she was saying, God, I've got a lot on the line here. Like, they might be about to kill me. Are you really with me? And she said within seconds after she prayed that prayer, a truck was coming from the other direction. And across the front grill of this truck was the word Emmanuel, God with us. And she said it, totally. It was the answer to her prayer, like, God, are you really with me? And here comes this truck, Emanuel, God with us. And she said at that point, she felt peace and she felt okay, Lord, if. If you are with me. And now I know you are. If you are with me, I can handle this. Well, whatever's going to come, I can handle it. And they took her to her house. They locked her in her room. Again. They had taken her phone. She couldn't really contact anybody. She had to kind of sneak a phone from somebody else in her family and text a message to somebody. And the next day or two days later, literally had to run from her home. Like, the other people were asleep or they were out of the house. And she just opened the door and started running. Finally got in a car, was able to escape, got with some other Christians. But her family hasn't stopped looking for her since then. In fact, they disenrolled her from university. She was just a few months away from getting her diploma and graduating. And they called the university and said, yes, she's withdrawing from all her classes, thank you very much. So when she called them, they're like, oh, yeah, you're not a student here anymore. And so she hasn't been able to finish her degree. She doesn't know what's going to happen to her right now. She's kind of in limbo. The family has tried to involve the police to, search for her, as they accused the Christians of.
Young woman trusts God in midst of persecution and uncertainty
Of kidnapping her or brainwashing her or taking her away from them. And so we're talking to this young lady who has no idea what the future holds for her. She doesn't know how this is all going to end. And yet, yet she was so confident that God is with her and God will take care of her, and God has a plan in the midst of all of this. she was just such a sweetheart, and yet totally doesn't know what's going to happen. And yet totally confident in the Lord. it was an amazing display of faithfulness to God in the midst of persecution and in the midst of so many unanswered questions. She just trusted the Lord.
An unlikely romance and love in Southeast Asia is sparked by Christian persecution
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, another amazing story that you have in the midst of persecution is even an unlikely romance and love in Southeast Asia. What happened with that, Todd?
Todd Nettleton: this is a fantastic story. So this was a couple who are husband and wife today. but they were both persecuted Christians when they were single. and in fact, the lady was so persecuted by her family, they really cut her off from. From food and basically kind of locked her up at home. Some Christians got word that she was facing this terrible situation, and so they began to visit, and they would try to take some food to her every week. And the pastor who was overseeing that one week, he took along a man with him to go and help deliver this food. And, the man said on the way home, he asked the pastor, so who was that lady? Tell me more about her. And, that launched a romance. And they today. So he also had been a persecuted Christian. He was persecuted for standing for Christ in his community. She was persecuted by her own family. They meet when he goes with the pastor to take some aid to her. Aid that had actually been provided by the voice of the martyrs. And they meet. And today they are husband and wife. And we got to interview them and hear both of their separate stories, but then also hear their wonderful love at being brought together. Both of them are in their 40s. They're. They're not in their 20s. They both thought, you know, I'm going to be single my whole life. The Lord's never going to like that. That door is closed to me. And yet the. The Lord brought them together. And, it was funny. They sat close together and they held. It was like teenagers. They held hands.
: They couldn't.
Todd Nettleton: They didn't want to be, like, more than six inches away from each other. It was just fantastic to see that. But. And to know that God actually used persecution to bring them together, the suffering that they went through was a part of God's plan to ultimately answer a prayer and provide a blessing to them. And, the fact that voice of the martyrs got to be a little part in that story was Just really cool to go out. And, they still live on her family's property, the same family that persecuted her. And the family has softened towards her as they have seen Christians show the love of Christ. And they, as the Christians have come. At first they were like, why are you even doing this? And then it was like, oh, you're taking care of our sister, you're taking care of our daughter. That's so nice of you. And then it is now getting into, well, why don't you tell me a little more about what you Christians believe? I'm. I'm actually interested to hear a little bit more. So the. The story's not over for her family. God is doing something in that situation. And, and, like I say, it was fun to see them. We actually were working on a story about them for a VOM magazine later this year. And, fun to see them in so in love with each other and so just excited at how God had brought them together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, this is just one of the great ironies because we're talking about Day of the Christian Martyr. And you've used words like fun and beautiful and funny and hopeful, and this is God just making beauty from ashes. We live in an imperfect world, but just to see, see the hope that springs from stories that seem so hopeless is really encouraging.
There are dozens of pastors in jail in India under state anti-conversion laws
And another place that you have seen hope when it doesn't seem like there should be is, some places in India. Can you tell us what's going on there, Todd?
Todd Nettleton: Yeah. I would encourage our listeners to pray for India right now. There are dozens of pastors in jail right now in India under different state anti conversion laws. In fact, the state of Chattisgar just rewrote their anti. They already had an anti conversion law, but they rewrote it to make it more harsh. And, they actually call this the Freedom of Religion Act. If, if you can believe that with a straight face, they say that, but what it says is you cannot change your religion. You cannot encourage someone else to change their religion. Interestingly, the new law that they've just written specifically excludes changing your religion to Hinduism. So you cannot change your religion unless you're changing it to become Hindu, then it's okay. you cannot force someone to convert unless you're forcing them to convert to Hinduism, then it's okay. They also, in this law, describe a mass conversion event. If you hold a mass conversion event, you can be sentenced to life in prison in Chattisgar. And you know, you hear about a mass conversion event, and we've Seen these, amazing outreaches and you're thinking, well, that must be like, is that a thousand people? Is that 10,000 people? No, under this law, that's two or more people. So, a pastor sitting down with a husband and wife, both of them decide to follow Jesus. Well, that pastor has just held a mass conversion event under this new state law, and he is subject to life in prison because of that. So please pray for India, especially in Chattisgar State. There are now 12 states that have these anti conversion laws, and they are making life very difficult for our Christian brothers and sisters, especially those doing evangelism and church planting and pastoring, people reaching out with the gospel of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I certainly would echo that encouragement for listeners to pray because prayer is powerful and prayer does change things. And Todd, you have shared stories with me before about persecuted Christians feeling the power of prayer and having miracles happening. So don't underestimate the power that that can be there.
Todd: Nigerian military operation freed more than 300 hostages from Boko Haram encampment
And, along with India, Todd, one of the biggest questions that I get is what is going on in Nigeria? Of course, that is dominating a lot of the headlines. What are the updates that you have? What can you share with us?
Todd Nettleton: Well, there, there is good news in Nigeria. Just a couple weeks ago, a Nigerian military operation freed more than 300 hostages from a Boko Haram encampment. it is not 100% clear how that came about, how that, military operation was launched. I know there has been talk that the US Is sharing some intelligence with the Nigerian government. I don't know if that led to this specific case or not. but the sad news is these are not the only hostages. There are still more that need to be freed, and there will likely be more taken in the, in the weeks to come. It's the, the attacks in northern Nigeria against pastors and churches and Christians have become so common that it doesn't even make the news anymore. When it happens, it's just like, oh, yeah, there was another attack in Nigeria. That is a horrific situation for our Christian brothers and sisters, when it's not even remarkable when a church is attacked. so we hope that this is a sign of something new. These, these hostages being released, the Nigerian military actively working against the terrorists. I hope that's the first chapter of a long book about that happening. but sometimes in the past, the Nigerian military has stepped aside when the terrorists were attacking. And so it's hard to know if this is a one off or as this is hopefully the beginning of a pattern. But, certainly we want to be in prayer for our brothers and sisters in the northern part of Nigeria.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, I really appreciate you sharing all that you have had to share today. There's so much hope involved and I hope hope that as people are approaching the 250th birthday of the United States, as we're approaching that big milestone on July 4, that you will think about the religious freedom that you have here in the United States. And more than that, you will choose to exercise it. And the stories of these martyrs, of these persecuted Christians would give you courage. I ask that you pray for the persecuted church that is globally. Go to persecution.com that's persecution.com to find out more to get more resources you can find about the about the books, the videos, prayer guides, information. You can find everything from Voice of the Martyrs there. We're so appreciative, Todd, of you sharing the voice of Perpetua and the witness of persecuted believers all around the world. It just reminds us that Christianity is all always been sustained by ordinary men and women who are willing to trust and obey and share an extraordinary savior. As we remember the day of the Christian martyr, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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American Family Radio thanks sponsor Preborn for supporting pro life advocacy
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: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for healthy Families. And listen.
Thousands of Christians face persecution worldwide because they bear the name of Jesus
In a world where hope seems hard to find, we are going to find it today in the most unlikely of places. It is so easy for Christians in America, for the most part, to take their religious freedom for granted. We can gather openly for worship. You probably own multiple copies of scripture, the Bible in your home. You can speak freely about your faith. We do have extraordinary freedoms. But around the world, millions of believers face harassment, imprisonment, discrimination and even death simply because they bear the name of Jesus. And according to ministries serving the persecuted church, hostility towards Christians remains a daily reality across dozens of nations. And it makes the stories of faithful endurance of these Christians as relevant today as they were in the pages of the NewSong Testament. This month, Christians around the world will observe the day of the Christian Martyr. This is a global day of remembrance honoring those who have laid down their lives rather than deny their faith in Christ. And this is occurring on June 29, which church tradition holds as the day the Apostle Paul was martyred for his faith. And this year's focus is the extraordinary story of Perpetua. This is a 22 year old noble woman and nursing mother who was martyred in A.D. 203. That's 203 after refusing to renounce Jesus. And her story preached, preserved in part through her own prison journal, which I just find absolutely amazing, continues to Inspire believers nearly 2,000 years later, just like her life will today.
Todd Nettleton has interviewed hundreds of persecuted Christians over 25 years
Joining us today is friend of the show, Todd Nettleton. He is vice president for Message of the Voice of the Martyrs and host of the Voice of the Martyrs Radio. For more than 25 years, Todd has traveled the world interviewing hundreds of persecuted Christians across more than 30 countries, bringing their hopeful stories of courage and faithfulness to the global church. And today we are talking about this day of the Martyr. talking about Perpetua. But we're also going to give you an update on a bunch of other developments that are happening. This is one of the most frequently asked questions that I get is about the persecuted church. How can we pray? And we will talk about that today. Because I know for some, it can feel like these stories are very distant. For. For some, they can feel very scary and very frightening, especially for children. For some, it's just something that you read in history books or maybe a headline. But for Todd, these are not statistics. These are real people. These are his friends, pastors, parents and children whose lives have been forever shaped by the gospel. And his ministry has been built around amplifying their voices and reminding the church that if one member suffers, one, we all suffer. But in suffering, in great suffering, there is great hope. Todd, so glad to have you back on. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Todd Nettleton: Thanks so much. Good to be with you.
June 29 is the day of the Christian martyr
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, in summer reading, I do want to let my listeners know you have written a book that is very compelling. I've got it right here in my hands. When faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. You and I have talked about this before. I would encourage families to consider that for family reading. But in talking about Perpetua, we. Walk us back to that. Todd, tell us about this day of remembrance. And tell us about this remarkable woman. Because if I am getting my facts right, you've actually stood in the arena where she died. And I want to hear all about it.
Todd Nettleton: I have. So, Perpetua, amazing day of the Christian martyr, as you mentioned, June 29, the anniversary of the apostle Paul being beheaded outside the city of Rome. And so that's the significance of that date. That's why that was chosen as a day to honor the lives of the martyrs, people who laid down their life for Christ. Perpetua's story is really amazing. And I'm glad you brought up the fact that most of what we know about her story is what she told us, because she wrote it down. She kept a journal while she was in prison before her execution. And, you know, as we were working on the Day of the Christian Martyr, we do a short video each year. This year, the video is about Perpetua. and I was researching about that. And that is, maybe the oldest example we have of a woman's writing that still exists today. So. So it is one of the very first, if not the very first example, of a woman writing down her thoughts. And it's still existing now. You know, 1800 years later. so that's amazing, whether you're a Christian or not, whether you know the story or not. It's just amazing. The history of it and the fact that. That she's so significant, that because she's writing this down, she's telling her own story. The other thing that's really amazing to me about her story is this was a young lady, 21, 22 years old, and she had a baby. and in fact, her own father brought the baby to the prison where she was and said, perpetua, you don't have to mean it. Just light a candle for the emperor, bow your head, say the words they want you to say, and then come home and raise your child like you're a mom. You've got to make the decision that's. That's best for a mom. And famously, Perpetua pointed at a vase and said, hey, what is that? And he said, it's a vase. And she said, now, could you call it something else? You know, could you call it a stick? Could you call it a dog? No, you can only call it a vase. And she said, I'm a Christian. You can only call me a Christian. You can't call me a follower of the emperor, a worshiper of the emperor, because I am a Christian. And even if that means I'm going to die, you still can't call me anything other than a Christian. And so she eventually was tried. She was led to the arena. They loosed the wild animals on her. They did not, in fact, kill her. she was actually killed at the end by a gladiator. But one of the other famous and amazing parts of her story, the animal attacks a rabid heifer, is the way they describe it. Attacks her, knocks her to the ground, tears her clothes. She straightens out her clothes to protect her modesty, and then asks for a hairpin. And being a man, I hear that I'm like, you're being killed. Why would you care about your hair? but she. The significance of that was if your hair was disheveled, if your hair was all down in that culture, it meant that you were in mourning, you were grieving something. And perpetual wanted it to be very clear. She was not in mourning. She was not sad about this. She was getting ready to meet her heavenly bridegroom. And she would not even portray a sad person. So she, you know, said, hey, can I have a hairpin? I need to fix my hair. She fixed her hair. Eventually. She actually guided the gladiator sword to her throat. She was executed there in the arena. And as you mentioned, I. I have been in Tunisia. I stood in the arena. It is. It is very much a sacred spot. It's interesting because the government of Tunisia is an Islamic government. They don't really draw attention to this Christian tourist site, this heroic Christian site. You kind of have to know somebody who will take you there, or else you kind of miss it. but it is an amazing place. And her story is so amazing of just that faithfulness. Even leaving behind her baby, even when her own dad said, hey, you know, tell them whatever they want to hear. Come home, raise your child. Nope, I am a Christian, even if it cost me. What an amazing example.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is an amazing example. Todd and I shared with you right before we went live, that I have a bunch of college students who are in and out of my home this summer. And they had. When I was telling them about this, they had all heard about this. And one of my daughters even said, oh, yeah, that's what I remember. Just her fixing her hair and just being so dignified and just so confident and. And her choice. And it is really amazing the fact that we have her own word, her own story, her own testimony that is held there from there. And, you know, this can seem really far away, Todd, but in my conversations with you before, and knowing about the Voice of the Martyrs in reading your book, these stories are.
Voice of the Martyrs focuses on Christians facing persecution around the world
There may not be gladiators, but these stories are still remarkably similar of persecution to the point. Point of death. What are you seeing? and what is Voice of the Martyrs doing about that?
Todd Nettleton: You know, it's interesting. Even in Tunisia, where Perpetua was killed, it was Carthage in those days. Now it's Tunisia, there is still persecution. if you come to faith in Christ out of an Islamic background, the likelihood is your family is going to turn against you. your family is going to make life difficult for you. Sometimes that includes maybe being locked in a room. Maybe it includes being beaten. Maybe it includes being kicked out of the family home. and their attitude is, hey, we're a Muslim family. And now you say that you're not a Muslim anymore. So obviously you don't have a place here. Like, you don't belong. You're not supposed to be here. There have even. I've heard stories in North Africa of, young people whose parents essentially, act as if they were dead. Like, you're a dead to us. So I'm never going to speak to you again. I'm certainly not going to include you in the Will and the inheritance. I'm not going to help you in any way. You are dead to me, literally. And that is how parents will act. And so in Tunisia today, that is still reality, that Christians are suffering. Christians are paying a price for following Jesus Christ. And one of the things that we see around the world, and I think we hear that in the United States, and our picture is somebody who's really depressed and really, boy, they're just barely getting by. And yes, there are times where it is very, very difficult. But, overwhelmingly, the Christians that I've met have a sense of joyfulness, that is completely counterintuitive. And it's like, wow, how could you be happy? And I'm reminded often of the book of Acts, and the apostles were beaten by the Jewish council. And, and it says they left the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Christ. That sense of rejoicing, that spirit of joyfulness, is still evident against our brothers and sisters who are being persecuted around the world. And yes, there are those who are giving their lives. I think of, places like North Korea, where if you are found with the Bible, at the very least, you are going to go to a concentration camp. If you survive long enough to get there, you could very well be executed. pastors in China are going to prison, pastors in Eritrea. There are seven pastors in Eritrea right now who have been in prison for more than 20 years. None of them has been charged with a crime. They've never had a trial. They just got abducted and went to prison. And they're still there now, 20, 22 years later. so this suffering is not something that just happened in 203 AD with Perpetua. This level of suffering and oppression and persecut is something that's still happening today.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that's one of the powerful things about the Day of the Christian Martyr. Because it's not just to commemorate Perpetua. People like Perpetua, who lived a long time ago, who were historical figures. It's also to remember believers who are facing persecution today.
Why is it so important for churches to intentionally remember and honor martyrs?
Todd, why is it so important right now for the church to meet this moment, to participate? There's still some time, because this isn't happening until June 29th, which. Why is it so important for churches to intentionally remember and honor these stories? Not of life, not only of lives that are lost, but persecution that is also going on, much like you just described?
Todd Nettleton: You know, I think there's two, two ways I would answer that. The first is because Scripture calls Us to remember. Hebrews 13:3 specifically says, Remember those in prison as if you were in prison with them. So, so that idea that we're supposed to remember, we're supposed to be aware. The scripture also says when one part of the body, we're all supposed to feel that pain. So there's that scriptural call. The other thing that happens as we remember and as we tell these stories is, I think we ask the question of ourselves, okay, well, what would I do in that situation? What would I do if I was a young mother with a baby and it said, hey, light a candle for the emperor or be killed and I have a baby, like, I need to be a mom, I need to raise this child. What would I do in that situation? And I think what happens when we ask that question is we kind of need to go to the Lord and say, lord, I know what the right answer is. I know what the Sunday school answer is. Of course I would stand up and I would preach the gospel, but Lord, help, help that to be true. Help me to really, in that moment, have the courage to stand up. And the other thing that happens is we are challenged, perpetual. Was willing to die for Christ. most of us, the worst that's going to happen to us as we live for Christ and as we witness for Christ is an awkward conversation. Like somebody maybe chuckle at us and say, oh, so you're one of those religious fanatics? That's for most of us living in America, that's a worst case scenario. Like, I could become the butt of a joke. so hopefully, as we think about Perpetua, as we think about pastors in prison in Eritrea and China, we think, wow, I have such a privilege of being in a country where I'm not taking a life and death risk to share Christ with my neighbor. In fact, I'm not taking much of a risk at all. surely I could do that. Surely I could have that conversation. So hopefully we're inspired as we hear the stories of these martyrs as we remember them, who, hopefully we're inspired to advance the gospel where we are as well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Todd, that is my prayer as well. And when we come back, we'll talk more about the persecuted church globally. And Todd will tell you about some of the pastors, some of the ministers, some of the missionaries that he's working with. We'll also talk about how you can honor the day of the martyrs. We'll talk about that when we come back.
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I Believe by Phil Wickham : I, believe there is one salvation, one doorway that leads to life, one redemption, One confession. I believe in the name of Jesus Christ. I believe in a crucifixion by his blood. I have been set free. I believe in the, resurrection. Hallelujah. His life is death's defeat All praise to God the Father. All praise to Christ the Son. All praise to the Holy Spirit. Our God has overcome the king who was and is and ever more will be in Jesus mighty name. I believe.
Would you say that I believe if faced with persecution and death?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is I Believe by Phil Wickham. that's definitely in my top 10 playlist right now. Not in my fake top 10 playlist, that's 142 songs, but my real top 10 playlist. And so often when we listen to music like that, we kind of sing along the words, but really, if you stop and think about what they're saying that I believe and what Phil Wickham lays out in the lyrics for the creed of that. Just saying this is what I believe as a Christian. And it is harder to say that than you think it would be. And I think a question that many Christians have is Would I say that I believe if I was in the face of persecution and death? And that's what we're talking about today. And I'm talking to Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs. He's the author of when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. Always really compelling, because this isn't just a history book. This is going on right now. And you can be part of Day of the Christian Martyr, which will be observed 29th. And so there is time to bring this to the attention of your community, of your church. And it's so important for us to recognize this happening now. Voice of the Martyrs is featuring Perpetua, who was a young woman and nursing mother who lost her life in the. In about 200 A.D. and Todd has just given us a really compelling account of her loss. And she wasn't a pastor or a public leader or a diplomat. She was just a young mother who faced an imposs choice between preserving her earthly life and remaining faithful to Christ. And her witness continues to echo across centuries because it reveals what it looks like to say, I believe over everything else. And Perpetua's life really reminds us that Christian courage is not about the absence of fear. I'm sure she was confident, but to think that she didn't have one iota of fear would be really hard. But the presence of a greater love, that's the greater story. And her story, again, is not ancient history. It's a living testimony to the power of faith in eternity. And as you said, Todd, you know, there's most. Most American families are not going to face imprisonment for their faith. And many parents are asking, how do we raise our children? Who will stand firm in a culture that increasingly challenges biblical convention? Conviction. And the stories of the persecuted church can help, but there's a balance in attention. And I have talked about this before. How do we, as families, present stories like Perpetua who don't scare some kids, especially some kids who may be more prone to fear? I know you've talked about your own father reading the stories, but at the same time telling them a reality of what happened and giving them courage to face their fear.
Todd Nettleton: One of the things I would point people to is, on the resources, along with the resources for Day of the Christian Martyr, along with the video about Perpetua, there is a guide for having these conversations with children. Children. so it is a great tool for parents and grandparents and Sunday school teachers, because, like you say, we don't want to freak them out. We don't want to make them fearful, but we do want them to understand, hey, when you follow Jesus, there is a price to be paid. Like, that has always been true. Jesus said, the world hates me, and if you follow me, the world will hate you also. So how do we do that in a way that is appropriate? And voice, of the martyrs has some great tools. We actually have some children's books. I, read one of them to my grandson just Yesterday and about St. Nicholas, the gift giver, who we know as Santa Claus, but who was actually a persecuted Christian. and so there are ways that we can do this in an age appropriate way. and like I say, it's such an important thing for them to understand even at a young age. Like, Jesus is not just like, make everything smooth and make us never have any trouble. Sometimes when we follow Jesus, that leads us into trouble. But he is with us. He will be with us. He promised to be with us. So communicating that in an age appropriate way, such an important thing for us as parents and grandparents.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, I confess I really love Christmas and I love the story of the real St. Nicholas. And I have no problem at all with you reading that to your grandson in June. In fact, it's great because we can read stories of Christians and Christian courage anytime. It doesn't have to be just on the day of the Christian martyr. It doesn't have to be just at Christmas time reading those stories. I, I have talked about that and just applauding that, Todd, because reading is such a great way to bond relationships and to increase faith. And, you know, I am thinking about this as we're approaching the 250th birthday of our nation. We're starting to see, really, cities gear up for that and the nation gear up for that. And, and you have such a unique perspective because, you know, as we're thinking, there's a lot of things that we can be grateful for for being in America, but one of the things that we should be most grateful for is the religious freedom. And you have the seat of traveling and working with Christians all over the world and seeing the extraordinary freedoms that we take for granted. What are good ways that we can pull that into the conversation without making it sound like we're lecturing, you know, like, oh, you should be so grateful for the freedoms you have. Don't, you know, the persecuted Christian, What's a good way to have that message? But really to be grateful for the freedoms that we have and more importantly, to exercise those freedoms and sharing the
Todd Nettleton: gospel with others I think that's, that's the biggest part of the equation is exercise them. How, you know, how do you build muscle while you exercise it? How do you make sure our freedoms are still there? Make sure they don't get infringed upon. You exercise them. And we need to understand that when we, and my wife and I do this every morning, we open up the Bible and we read together. Well, that's a freedom that we have. Like, we have multiple copies of the Bible on the shelf. We have multiple apps on our phone that have the Bible in it. That in itself is a privilege and such a blessing. I have talked to Christians in other nations who say, oh, I prayed for 10 years that I might someday have my own Bible. And I, I think about them on the days when I don't open my Bible. It's like, well, I'm just like the people who don't have one now because I didn't open it, I didn't read it. So I think that's a key is, is just, understanding that and exercising our freedoms. And I think we should be reminded to be thankful as we have this 250th anniversary. What, what an amazing blessing it is to be an American citizen, to have been born in this country that I had no control over, that the, the Lord somehow chose me to be born here. We need to be thankful and to celebrate that and to recognize we do have freedoms. Let's make sure we're using them well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's contrast that with some of the things and some of the pastors and missionaries, people that you're helping all over the world. I want to walk through some of the updates that you have and just tell us what is going on, instruct us how to pray. One of the first reports that you have comes from Early Rain Covenant Church in China, who's founding past is serving a nine year prison sentence. And while this has been a long time, there's an update on this and we'd love to hear you tell us about Pastor Wang Yi.
Todd Nettleton: Yeah, I, I am such a huge fan of Pastor Wang Yi. He is, is really as a hero, is a heroic figure to me and to many others. So he is serving a nine year prison sentence. In fact, he's like in year seven, I believe he has two years left after this December. And one of the amazing things about Pastor Wang Yi is he wrote a letter for after he was arrested and gave it to his church leaders. He said, hey, I know I'm going to be arrested, at some point when that happens. Here's my letter. Just go ahead and put it out there after I'm arrested. So this was not a surprise to him. This is not something he hadn't considered. He had considered it. He had chosen to continue leading a church, to continue sharing the gospel in communist China. He knew he was going to end up in prison, but he still was obedient to what the Lord had called him to do. So that was now seven plus years ago, he was arrested. Yesterday, his church was raided yet again. His church, early Reign Covenant Church, was holding a meeting. Couple really interesting things about this. So they had actually rented like a hotel meeting room a hundred miles away from the city where their church is. So this was not like they were meeting in the city where they've already been raided numerous times. They actually went 100 miles away, organized meeting. I'm sure thinking, hey, maybe the police will leave us alone. If we're 100 miles away from here, we'll kind of be under the radar. Nobody will know what's going on. Well, obviously somebody knew what was going on. The Communist officials sent 60 to 70 officers, some of them police, SWAT teams, local religious officials, and broke up this church meeting. They detained 33 people initially. Now, that included two elders from the church and then 31 others. Thankfully, late last night, the 31 others were released. Now, they had had all of their ID documents scanned. They had been questioned very heavily, interrogated by the police. But then eventually they were let go. The two elders are still in prison. And one of the frustrating things about Chinese law is you can detain someone for 15 days, really on a whim. You don't have to charge them with anything. You don't have to really show any evidence. You don't have to go before a judge. you can just grab anybody for 15 days. And so both of these elders right now are on what they call administrative detention, up to 15 days. And then at that point, we'll see what the charges against them are. But, this is one more example of the control that the Communist Party in China wants to have over the church. Here they are meeting in a hotel ballroom. They've paid to rent the facility. They've gone 100 miles away from home to try to get out from under the, the thumb of the Communist police. And still their meeting was raided. 33 people detained by the police. and their pastor is still in prison. This is one more example. One of the things for people to understand about China is when I came to vom, it's now it's now been 28 years ago, but it's a long time ago. But we would talk about China, and we would talk about persecution differently in different provinces of China. Religious enforcement was kind of handled at the provincial level. And so you could point to one province and you would say, man, there's a lot of persecution. There's pastors in jail, people being arrested. But you could point to another province and say the church there is really operating without a lot of interference. like they're a church meeting. It's. They're not really hiding what they're doing, and the authorities are leaving them alone. That was years ago. Today, religious enforcement is driven by Beijing, it's driven by the national government, and it is happening all across China. in fact, we've heard from Chinese Christians who say that Beijing is sending out trainers to go to local police around the country and train them in how to enforce religious restrictions. And Christians know when those trainers from Beijing arrive in their city, things are going to get worse for them. It is going to become more difficult for them. And this is another example, this most recent raid just. Just 24 hours ago against Early Rain Covenant Church.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's not lost on me, Todd, that that is so different than an experience that you would describe in America. It's not lost on me that you said earlier that probably I know that there are some other things that have happened. And so setting aside those more severe cases, the most that you're going to experience is, oh, I don't know if I can tell my coworker. I don't know if I can tell my neighbor. They might think I'm weird. They might be angry. This, what you're describing happening in China is very, very different. And I encourage my listeners to pray for this pastor, pray for this church, and pray for Christians in China.
Todd Nettleton traveled to Southeast Asia with Voice of the Martyrs
Let's move over a little bit, Todd, because I know since you and I saw each other last at the National Religious Broadcasters, convention, that you have traveled to Southeast Asia, and you are seeing some amazing stories of God's faithful servants there. Can you walk us through a little part of Southeast Asia and share your experience?
Todd Nettleton: One of the things that came out of our trip, we encountered several young people. We talked about perpetua being 21 or 22 years old. we met several people in that same age bracket, who are actively ministering for the gospel, even when it costs them. And, one of the groups that we met with was a group called Any3. And their goal is to share Christ anytime, any place with anyone. Those are the three Ennis in any three. And they are now leaving their home country and going out to some of the surrounding nations. And their goal and the way their program runs is you share Christ with five people every day and you have accountability, on Sunday evening. So how did it go this week? How did. Did you hit your goals of five people a day? They have training another night of the week to help you become more effective in sharing your faith. And you know, as I, as I met these young people telling me about that, I. The picture I had in my mind is like a spring break trip or like a ywam, you know, three month dts. And I said to one of them, I said, so, you know, how long did you. Are you in this program? Is it like one year? Is it like, you know, six months? And she looked me square in the eye and said, until we die. And I was blown away. I was like, okay, so this is a lifestyle. This is something you've committed your whole life to. And the reason we from Voice of the Martyrs were meeting them is when they went to one of those neighboring countries, they got detained by the Ministry of Religion. They were taken into court. They were interrogated for two days. They left the courthouse and thought they were going to jail. thankfully they instead were taken to the airport. They were put on an airplane and said, hey, you've been blacklisted. Don't come back here for five years or else. one of these young ladies said, I am counting down the days until the five years is up because I can't wait to go back and continue sharing the gospel in that place. And I was completely floored by their boldness and faithfulness and completely unaffected by two days of interrogation and being threatened and being kicked out of a country. Things that would make me very nervous and think about, oh, do I need to change anything about my life? And. And they're like, no, we can't wait to go back there and keep doing what we're doing. The other really impactful.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm gonna hold you right there. The other impactful conversation. We will come back to that right after the break. You don't want to miss it. Todd Nettleton with Voice of the Martyrs. He's gonna tell you about that other impactful conversation. What else is going on in Southeast Asia, in India and in Nigeria. We'll talk about what is going on with the persecuted church. As a reminder, you can participate in Day of the Christian Martyr. There are videos that Voice of the Martyr has that you can use. There are resources, as he said, that you can talk with children. I encourage you to pray for the persecuted church. And we'll be right back with more from Todd Nettleton.
: America's 250th birthday. It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. afa.net/topics/250 God only knows.
God Only Knows by FOR KING + COUNTRY: God only knows what you've been through.
Dr. Jessica Peck: God only knows what they say about you Welcome back, friends. That is God only knows for king and country. God only knows what is facing the persecuted church Today. I'm talking to Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs. We've talked, many times before. He is the author of when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. I would encourage you to pick that up for summer reading. And you would think, oh, my goodness, that sounds so heavy and so dark and so depressing. But as Todd and I have talked about many times now, one of the greatest ironies in talking about the persecuted church and talking about Christians who are martyred for their faith or in danger of being martyred for their faith, there is nowhere else on the planet that you will encounter a kind of hope and a kind of joy that defends, defies human understanding. And I remember, Todd, the last time you were on, you were telling me about a woman who had been in prison and you had gone to check on her, and you asked her how the time was in prison, and you said her face lit up and she smiled and said, oh, that was such a lovely time. And I think these kinds of things, if they don't encourage your faith, I don't know what will because it doesn't make sense. Now, Todd, we, as has been all over the world and he has been in places. we were talking about a young woman named Perpetua who was. Who was martyred in about 200 A.D. and he stood where she is, but he also has stood where people are. Now we're just walking through his global tour and talking about the realities facing the church around the world. And we were right in the middle of Southeast Asia before the break, Todd, and you were telling us about these young people who committed to share the Gospel with five people a day until they die. That was their words, until we die. And you were just about to say the most encouraging part of that is. And I'll give it to you there.
Todd Nettleton: Well, there they are still doing that. And, you know, I, I felt so convicted about it. Like, if I got to the end of this year and said, hey, I shared Christ with five people this year, I would pat myself on the shoulder and I would want everyone else to say, look what an incredible great job you're doing as a follower of Christ. They share Christ with five people a day, every day, in a Muslim country where they could actually be attacked. They could actually have trouble. And I was so humbled and so in awe of their commitment. In fact, as we were having the conversation, I was talking through a translator, and the translator said, I'm just asking, like, like, what do you actually say? And one of these young ladies, she just began to share the gospel with the translators. Like, she just jumped right into it. It's like, okay, let's go. I'll tell, I'll tell you what I say. I'll say it. I'll say it to you. And, they were just amazing. On fire. Followers of Jesus Christ. We also had the chance to meet a young lady who has a very difficult story. she was born in a Muslim family, was a devout Muslim herself. She went away to college and she made friends with a Christian who said, hey, why don't you come to church with me? And, she began to go to church with this friend. And over time, she chose to leave behind Islam and follow Jesus Christ. And, her family was starting to have some questions. Well, then she decided that she was going to be baptized. Now, in a Muslim context, that is often seen as sort of the point of no return. Like, if you're looking at a Bible, you can and say, well, I was just curious about what the Christians are teaching, but if you get baptized, you're going to have a tough time saying anything other than, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. That's why I got baptized. Her parents came to the university town where she was studying, which is about four hours away from her home. They literally put her in the backseat of the car between two of her siblings and took her forcibly back to their house. you are not going to get baptized. In fact, you are not going to study any longer. We're not going to leave you here where you can be subject to these quote unquote negative influences. You are coming back with us. And she said her dad was so angry, she assumed that he was going to kill her.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Like.
Todd Nettleton: Like that wouldn't be uncommon in that culture for someone who has brought shame on their family, in their eyes, to be killed. And so they are in the car, and she's between two of her siblings, and she can't get out, and they've taken her phone, and she can't contact anyone to say, hey, pray for me. And she said, I was in the backseat of the car and I was praying. And she said, I asked God, God, are you really with me? And really, she was saying, God, I've got a lot on the line here. Like, they might be about to kill me. Are you really with me? And she said within seconds after she prayed that prayer, a truck was coming from the other direction. And across the front grill of this truck was the word Emmanuel, God with us. And she said it, totally. It was the answer to her prayer, like, God, are you really with me? And here comes this truck, Emanuel, God with us. And she said at that point, she felt peace and she felt okay, Lord, if. If you are with me. And now I know you are. If you are with me, I can handle this. Well, whatever's going to come, I can handle it. And they took her to her house. They locked her in her room. Again. They had taken her phone. She couldn't really contact anybody. She had to kind of sneak a phone from somebody else in her family and text a message to somebody. And the next day or two days later, literally had to run from her home. Like, the other people were asleep or they were out of the house. And she just opened the door and started running. Finally got in a car, was able to escape, got with some other Christians. But her family hasn't stopped looking for her since then. In fact, they disenrolled her from university. She was just a few months away from getting her diploma and graduating. And they called the university and said, yes, she's withdrawing from all her classes, thank you very much. So when she called them, they're like, oh, yeah, you're not a student here anymore. And so she hasn't been able to finish her degree. She doesn't know what's going to happen to her right now. She's kind of in limbo. The family has tried to involve the police to, search for her, as they accused the Christians of.
Young woman trusts God in midst of persecution and uncertainty
Of kidnapping her or brainwashing her or taking her away from them. And so we're talking to this young lady who has no idea what the future holds for her. She doesn't know how this is all going to end. And yet, yet she was so confident that God is with her and God will take care of her, and God has a plan in the midst of all of this. she was just such a sweetheart, and yet totally doesn't know what's going to happen. And yet totally confident in the Lord. it was an amazing display of faithfulness to God in the midst of persecution and in the midst of so many unanswered questions. She just trusted the Lord.
An unlikely romance and love in Southeast Asia is sparked by Christian persecution
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, another amazing story that you have in the midst of persecution is even an unlikely romance and love in Southeast Asia. What happened with that, Todd?
Todd Nettleton: this is a fantastic story. So this was a couple who are husband and wife today. but they were both persecuted Christians when they were single. and in fact, the lady was so persecuted by her family, they really cut her off from. From food and basically kind of locked her up at home. Some Christians got word that she was facing this terrible situation, and so they began to visit, and they would try to take some food to her every week. And the pastor who was overseeing that one week, he took along a man with him to go and help deliver this food. And, the man said on the way home, he asked the pastor, so who was that lady? Tell me more about her. And, that launched a romance. And they today. So he also had been a persecuted Christian. He was persecuted for standing for Christ in his community. She was persecuted by her own family. They meet when he goes with the pastor to take some aid to her. Aid that had actually been provided by the voice of the martyrs. And they meet. And today they are husband and wife. And we got to interview them and hear both of their separate stories, but then also hear their wonderful love at being brought together. Both of them are in their 40s. They're. They're not in their 20s. They both thought, you know, I'm going to be single my whole life. The Lord's never going to like that. That door is closed to me. And yet the. The Lord brought them together. And, it was funny. They sat close together and they held. It was like teenagers. They held hands.
: They couldn't.
Todd Nettleton: They didn't want to be, like, more than six inches away from each other. It was just fantastic to see that. But. And to know that God actually used persecution to bring them together, the suffering that they went through was a part of God's plan to ultimately answer a prayer and provide a blessing to them. And, the fact that voice of the martyrs got to be a little part in that story was Just really cool to go out. And, they still live on her family's property, the same family that persecuted her. And the family has softened towards her as they have seen Christians show the love of Christ. And they, as the Christians have come. At first they were like, why are you even doing this? And then it was like, oh, you're taking care of our sister, you're taking care of our daughter. That's so nice of you. And then it is now getting into, well, why don't you tell me a little more about what you Christians believe? I'm. I'm actually interested to hear a little bit more. So the. The story's not over for her family. God is doing something in that situation. And, and, like I say, it was fun to see them. We actually were working on a story about them for a VOM magazine later this year. And, fun to see them in so in love with each other and so just excited at how God had brought them together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, this is just one of the great ironies because we're talking about Day of the Christian Martyr. And you've used words like fun and beautiful and funny and hopeful, and this is God just making beauty from ashes. We live in an imperfect world, but just to see, see the hope that springs from stories that seem so hopeless is really encouraging.
There are dozens of pastors in jail in India under state anti-conversion laws
And another place that you have seen hope when it doesn't seem like there should be is, some places in India. Can you tell us what's going on there, Todd?
Todd Nettleton: Yeah. I would encourage our listeners to pray for India right now. There are dozens of pastors in jail right now in India under different state anti conversion laws. In fact, the state of Chattisgar just rewrote their anti. They already had an anti conversion law, but they rewrote it to make it more harsh. And, they actually call this the Freedom of Religion Act. If, if you can believe that with a straight face, they say that, but what it says is you cannot change your religion. You cannot encourage someone else to change their religion. Interestingly, the new law that they've just written specifically excludes changing your religion to Hinduism. So you cannot change your religion unless you're changing it to become Hindu, then it's okay. you cannot force someone to convert unless you're forcing them to convert to Hinduism, then it's okay. They also, in this law, describe a mass conversion event. If you hold a mass conversion event, you can be sentenced to life in prison in Chattisgar. And you know, you hear about a mass conversion event, and we've Seen these, amazing outreaches and you're thinking, well, that must be like, is that a thousand people? Is that 10,000 people? No, under this law, that's two or more people. So, a pastor sitting down with a husband and wife, both of them decide to follow Jesus. Well, that pastor has just held a mass conversion event under this new state law, and he is subject to life in prison because of that. So please pray for India, especially in Chattisgar State. There are now 12 states that have these anti conversion laws, and they are making life very difficult for our Christian brothers and sisters, especially those doing evangelism and church planting and pastoring, people reaching out with the gospel of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I certainly would echo that encouragement for listeners to pray because prayer is powerful and prayer does change things. And Todd, you have shared stories with me before about persecuted Christians feeling the power of prayer and having miracles happening. So don't underestimate the power that that can be there.
Todd: Nigerian military operation freed more than 300 hostages from Boko Haram encampment
And, along with India, Todd, one of the biggest questions that I get is what is going on in Nigeria? Of course, that is dominating a lot of the headlines. What are the updates that you have? What can you share with us?
Todd Nettleton: Well, there, there is good news in Nigeria. Just a couple weeks ago, a Nigerian military operation freed more than 300 hostages from a Boko Haram encampment. it is not 100% clear how that came about, how that, military operation was launched. I know there has been talk that the US Is sharing some intelligence with the Nigerian government. I don't know if that led to this specific case or not. but the sad news is these are not the only hostages. There are still more that need to be freed, and there will likely be more taken in the, in the weeks to come. It's the, the attacks in northern Nigeria against pastors and churches and Christians have become so common that it doesn't even make the news anymore. When it happens, it's just like, oh, yeah, there was another attack in Nigeria. That is a horrific situation for our Christian brothers and sisters, when it's not even remarkable when a church is attacked. so we hope that this is a sign of something new. These, these hostages being released, the Nigerian military actively working against the terrorists. I hope that's the first chapter of a long book about that happening. but sometimes in the past, the Nigerian military has stepped aside when the terrorists were attacking. And so it's hard to know if this is a one off or as this is hopefully the beginning of a pattern. But, certainly we want to be in prayer for our brothers and sisters in the northern part of Nigeria.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, I really appreciate you sharing all that you have had to share today. There's so much hope involved and I hope hope that as people are approaching the 250th birthday of the United States, as we're approaching that big milestone on July 4, that you will think about the religious freedom that you have here in the United States. And more than that, you will choose to exercise it. And the stories of these martyrs, of these persecuted Christians would give you courage. I ask that you pray for the persecuted church that is globally. Go to persecution.com that's persecution.com to find out more to get more resources you can find about the about the books, the videos, prayer guides, information. You can find everything from Voice of the Martyrs there. We're so appreciative, Todd, of you sharing the voice of Perpetua and the witness of persecuted believers all around the world. It just reminds us that Christianity is all always been sustained by ordinary men and women who are willing to trust and obey and share an extraordinary savior. As we remember the day of the Christian martyr, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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Todd Nettleton, Vice President of Message for The Voice of the Martyrs-USA, joins Jessica to talk about how parents and grandparents can talk about persecution and prepare the next generation. He also talks about "The Day of the Christian Martyr" (June 29).
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