Transcript

M Hello, and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy.

Families here on American Family Radio.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck. Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. We live in a world that is in desperate need of hope. And our prescription for hope today is cultivating curious faith. Faith conversations. Now, in today's day and age, we know that 75% of kids who are raised in church walk away from their Christian faith in their adulthood. We know that increasingly we have people who don't know God. And when parents are at home and they hear their kids start to come home and asking questions about their faith, so often it strikes fear in the hearts of the parents who are listening. Oh, my goodness, what is going on? Why are you questioning this? Are you going to walk away from your faith? And our brain kind of takes away on a goes away on a runaway train and we start to think all of these things way down the road. But I'm here to tell you today that questioning faith is a normal part of child development. As children take on faith and make it their own. It's no longer the rhythms or the rituals that you have that are part of your family, but it's a living, breathing faith that becomes their own. And as their brains develop and move from concrete thinking to abstract thinking, this is one of those things that starts to happen as they wrestle with their faith. And so often as parents especially, we tend to lead with lecturing as soon as that question comes. Well, let me tell you why that's wrong. And it's because of A, B and C. And okay, case closed. But really, we need to create some space for curious conversations. And if we don't do that, there are a lot of other spaces, especially online, where CURE kids are being invited into those kinds of conversations where we don't have influence, where we don't have the ability to know what's going on in those spaces. And so being a safe space for our kids and doing that and cultivating curiosity and helping them to answer their questions from the way that God has made their brains is something that we're going to talk about today.

Mary Jo Sharp is the founder of Confident Christianity apologetics ministry

And I've got a former atheist, Mary Jo Sharp, who was raised without religion, but she is now the founder of Confident Christianity apologetics ministry. She is a spokesperson for the modern teen discipleship program Dark Room, and she's author of several books. But the Zondervan book, why I still Believe a Former atheist's Reckoning with the Bad Reputation Christians Give a Good God. And she also has authored a Lifeway Bible study. Why do you believe that? So, Mary Jo, I feel like we have the right person for this conversation. Thanks so much for joining us today.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Hey, thank you so much for having me.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Mary Jo, those are three very salacious words to start in a bio, in a biography, a former atheist. Tell us your story.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, it is. so I grew up, outside of church, and I grew up in a part of the country that has a lower religious participation, as evidenced through studies. In fact, I grew up in the Portland, Oregon area. And our local newspaper just put out another, statement on how we have a lower religious participation. So it's like something I've been saying and something I've known but is also reinforced as of late. And so my environment in which I grew up in wasn't very, culturally Christian, in that I didn't know a lot of people who went to church or. We didn't talk about it so much. What my parents raised me with, though they didn't raise me in church, they did raise me with this great, respect and wonder at the world in which I lived. In fact, the Pacific Northwest is quite beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful parts of the world. And with its majestic mountain peaks, Pacific Ocean, and here in Oregon, we have tons of waterfalls everywhere. It's just gorgeous, like these fairytale forests with these beautiful waterfalls. And for me, that was very important because it pointed, to. There was a lot of beauty that was showing me. And that beauty caused me to wonder, what is all this for? And not only that, but I had, a father who loved science. He was a chemical engineer. And he didn't just love, like, his field. He absolutely love cosmology and staring out at space and wondering what was out there. And so he instilled in me this love of learning. And when you couple that with the fact that my parents were into the arts, like Shakespearean plays, it's no wonder that eventually, this awe and wonder at the beauty and design I saw in the universe caused me to start to question, what is this for? What does this all mean? And what's the source of this? And as I become an older teenager, I have a music teacher, a band director who's a Christian, who hasn't shared his faith with anyone, Like a public sharing of his faith, like, with a student at school. And he just feels so burdened for me as I'm graduating to go off to college, that he gave, me a Bible as a gift. And he said, when you go off to college, you're going to have hard questions. I hope you'll turn to this. And so that was. That gift was very timely because I did have questions, and I respected him greatly. In fact, I have an undergraduate degree in music education. I wanted to teach band. So this. This was important to me. like I said, I respected him. And so I began to read that Bible. And in there I found the source for this goodness and beauty that I was seeing in the world. I found this artist, this intellig behind the universe. So when I went off to college, I actually kind of did the opposite of what we worry about. And that was I started exploring faith and church for the first time on my own m. And eventually I come to a point at a church there in my college town where I understand the need for a savior and I accept Jesus, in that moment, as my Lord and savior. So I kind of have the opposite story from a lot of people. I have the going off the college of finding faith story.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You're right. I mean, we so often hear about people who leave their faith, who lose their faith, you know, insert whatever kind of verb or adjective to describe that. But going off to college and finding your faith. You know, one of the things that's so compelling to me, Mary Jo, is that it was through the simple truth of God's word of reading the Bible. It wasn't necessarily something that your music teacher did, although that was a bold gesture for sure. But it was in reading that. Can you tell us a little bit more about your journey and reading through the truths of God's word and what resonated with you and how that really looked in your daily life?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Oh, yeah, definitely. So what he gave me was an NIV one year Bible. So it had, you know, proverbs, it had psalms, it had the Old Testament, had New Testament for every day of the year. And so I began to read that, but I had never read anything like this. So I was. I eventually started reading faster than the day allotted. And what. What was really resonating with me was I have this sense of I'm an idealist. I'm a youngest child, and that kind of tracks.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: so what I was finding was this, this grounding for good and evil and my sense of justice and my belief that there is good in this world, that there is evil in this world, and that was. It was starting to help me understand where this was coming from. and then just seeing that beauty matters. You know, my reaction to the great natural beauty around me wasn't just individualized, privatized thing, but it was meant to draw me to God, that the heavens declare his glory. I was reading things like that. I, was reading things that if we didn't profess God, the very stones would cry out. And then on the sort of ethics side, the morality side, I was reading in the New Testament about this unconditional love of Jesus, about how he taught us to treat one another, to love, our enemies and do good to those who maybe are not even doing good to us, but that this is the better way. This is love. And, it was just so the picture that he painted of human flourishing made sense to me. I was like, yes, this is right. This is what's supposed to happen in the world. This is how humans should be with each other. And this was all painting that picture for me of, again, I'm sort of an analytical idealist. And so this made sense to me. This is the way things are supposed to be. And that's really drawing me to trust him, for my salvation and as my Lord.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I really appreciate you sharing that, Mary Jo, because I feel like there may be people listening who are tracking that journey that you took, thinking, okay, how did that look? What did that look like? And there are also people who have had their faith for a long time. And I think about, you know, when I first met my husband, he was relatively new believer, and, you know, he. He just was so voraciously consuming God's word. He could not read enough. And he would ask me so many questions, and I would just kind of give him the answers. Yeah, oh, yeah, I know this. And finally he said, do you believe this, what you're telling me? And I said, well, yes, of course I believe it. And he said, then how does it not change you from the inside out? How does this not set your soul on fire? And I think sometimes it's good for us to hear that when some things have become routine, we lose the marvel at the wonder and the beauty that you're describing. And so I'm finding that convicting as you're talking. And, Mary Jo, can I ask you, how did your family respond to your faith?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: You know, it was, I was raised to respect people of all different kinds of backgrounds, and my parents have been raised in the Christian church, so it wasn't hostile, but it wasn't overtly welcoming. It was very questioning, skeptical, because of their, probably because of their own experiences within church. And so what they had grown up thinking, the things that they were struggling with. So I would say skeptical is how they were dealing with or how they received my, my conversion, how they received my follow Jesus.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, and that, that's actually a good word to describe. I think a, lot of people's attitude towards faith today is skepticism. And we see this a lot in teenagers. And that's really what we're going to talk about today in with you, the resource that you have in Darkroom, the online video curriculum to help kids to talk about some of these questions and to work out their skepticism. And that begins with curiosity. They just start to be curious. And you've described that through your own story. MARY Jo I was curious, I wondered, I thought why did this happen? Why is it so important for us to recognize and encourage that curiosity in students today?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, well, I think if we, you know, if we want to start with scripture, you can find it all over the place, especially in proverbs. When you get into the wisdom literature. We're invited into this sort of, lifestyle of curiosity and learning. So our basis would actually be in the scriptures. And then expanding out from like, Proverbs 18:15. An intelligent heart acquires knowledge and the ear of the wise seek knowledge. Expanding that out to. Why we want to develop this sense in our students is that we want them to become those people who have an intelligent heart who are trying to get wisdom. And the way that we do that with human beings is not by just rote memorization and regurgitation. the way we do that is we need to cultivate thinkers who are interested in ideas. They want to ask questions and they want to seek answers, out of their own will, out of their own desire. Because that's how we develop that sense of wonder as human beings. That's how we fuel our own learning as educators. we've often said the best kind of education that's going on is when students own their learning. A student owned learning situation is what we're after. So that's where students are actually concerned about the knowledge they're gaining. They're interested in it and they're taking ownership of their learning. So it's the importance of developing curiosity and not just, you know, in the broad field of education, but again tying it back to the scripture. That's who we're made to be. We were given this rationality to seek, so that we could seek God and gain knowledge and gain wisdom, so that we can live, as humans who are flourishing in this world and flourishing in that relationship with God.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I've been in higher education for about 20 years now and we've seen a really big shift just as you are referencing and talking to. And we went from this phrase that the sage on the stage to the guide on the side. And we recognize that standing at a podium lecturing or death by PowerPoint as my students will call it, it's not as effective as really engaging them in the world. But being that important, important guide on the side, developing relationships and cultivating that curiosity and part of that is really difficult for us to do, I think, especially as parents, because we have to give up a little bit of control. Actually, we have to give up a lot of control. And that's what I'm going to talk about when we come back from this break, how we trust God, who knows our children, who loves our children and will tell you more about the dark room program, darkroom program that is doing just this and cultivating curiosity. We'll see you on the other side of this break. Because of listeners like you, PreBorn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies. Your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax deductible gift, saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate go to preborn.com /AFR Will you take a moment and celebrate life with me?

Last year preborn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies from abortion

Last year PreBorn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies from abortion. Hi, this is Jessica Peck, host of the Dr. Nurse Mama Show. And I want to thank you for your partnership. Think about what you did. 67,000 babies are taking their first breath now because of you. Your $28 sponsored one ultrasound that was given to a woman, as she was deciding about the future of her child. Once she saw her precious baby for the first time and heard their sweet heartbeat, her baby's chance at life doubled. But PreBorn's mission is not only to rescue babies' lives but also to lead women to Christ. Last year PreBorn network clinic saw 8,900 women receive salvation. Your help is crucial to continue their life saving work. Your caring tax- deductible donation saves lives, So please be generous. To donate go to preborn.com /AFR that's preborn.com /AFR or dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY, That's pound 250 BABY. Your love can save a life! PreBorn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year PreBorn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR.

>> Do It Again by Elevation Worship: Waiting.

For change to come Knowing the battles.

Won.

For you have never failed me.

Yet.

Your promise still stands. Great is your faithfulness. Faithfulness, I'm still in your hands. This is my comfort. You've never failed me.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is Do It Again by Elevation Worship and we're talking today about cultivating curious faith conversations. This can be a tough one for parents because anytime our kids start to question their faith, we immediately feel panic. And I'm here to give you some encouragement and some comfort in knowing that that is the way that God wired their brains. As they grow from concrete thinking to abstract thinking, it is normal for them to start asking questions. And we want them to ask questions. And as I said before the break, I've learned as a profess to go from being that sage on the stage with lecture and death by PowerPoint as my students will call it, to know that they need a guide on the side. Now listen, when our kids are little, we are their teacher. We are teaching them everything they need to know in life. How to use a spoon, how to tie their shoes, how to ride a bike without training wheels, and those basic concepts of faith. As they get into those middle school years, our role shifts and we become the coach. And the main role of the coach is to make sure the practice and environment is safe, to prepare them for competition, to push them when they needed to be pushed and to pull them back when they need to rest, to be their sounding board, their cheerleader. And as they move into those young adult years, we need to be the guide on the side. Listen, this is so important for you to know. The world is so much bigger than it used to be because of the World Wide Web. In a different day and age in parenting, influence on your child was very small and it usually happened within your community. That's going to be who they encounter at school, who they encounter in extracurricular activities, who they encounter at church or maybe at their after school job. But now your kids can encounter people from all over the world. And here's the thing. It's not that your kids are looking for those people as much as those people are looking for your kids. They are giving them an invitation into community. And here's some hard truth. We don't want to give up that control. And sometimes we care more about what our kids say, and how they act, than we really care about what's going on in their heart. And there are some kids who learn to look the part, who say the right thing, do the right thing. But inside, those questions they're curious about are not answered. And as they go off on their own as adults, they find people who are willing to speak answers to those that may be contrary to the tenets of their faith, contrary to the way that they were raised. We've got to be courageous as parents to let go of some of that control and trust a God who loves them more than we could ever imagine loving them, who knows them infinitely better than we know them. And we have to trust that God will protect them, that he will be with them. And we've got to cover all of this in prayer.

Mary Jo Sharp created an online resource called Darkroom to cultivate curious conversations

And that's why we're talking today to former atheist Mary Jo Sharp, who is now the founder of Confident Christianity Apologetics ministry. And she's created an online resource called Darkroom to cultivate those curious conversations. You can learn more at darkroomfaith.com. so, Mary Jo, tell us about Darkroom. What is it and why did you create it?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, so, thank you. Darkroom Faith is, it's a program for students that is student narrative driven. The program includes, ah, 14 part video series as well as a full curriculum, including, you know, all the lessons and PowerPoints and shareables and all of that. I love the comment death by PowerPoint.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: It's true.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, those are, that's in the curriculum. But the video series that we created was based on, like I said, student narrative driven. And so it was, we put on a call to students across the United States to share with us their struggles, their stories. What, what are you struggling with in faith? What do you want to ask? What do you want to talk about? And then we created, these stories, these short video stories based on these real stories from students. And so that's that narrative driven part. And what has been so great about Darkroom Faith is that we hear from students that they see themselves in the characters in the videos, and that's directly a result of using their own stories for that character development and for handling what they're actually asking, you know, the questions that students actually have. So Again, it's a 14 part video series that comes with a full, curriculum online and it's available free. All you have to do is go to darkroomfaith.com, put in your email, and then you'll have access to all of the things, that we've offered there. And what's really great is these videos, Jessica, are they're up to date aesthetically, they are what kids expect, quality wise for the visuals. And so they're very unique in that and they're just excellent all around.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Mary Jo, I feel like some parents may go to look at these resources and start watching these videos at darkroomfaith.com and if we're really honest, they might feel uncomfortable and they might think, are kids really going through this? And you did say that these are real kids stories. And I can affirm, you know, even in my book that I wrote Behind Closed Doors, I think I'm going to say this very gently and very tenderly because I have been that parent. But I think, I think sometimes we can be naive to what kids are really, truly facing today. And especially with the advent of video based content, the things that they're exposed to in popular media, the narratives that become normal, for the language that they use, the risk taking behaviors that they engage in. I think it can make some parents feel like, not my kid, you know, like not my kid. And there are some kids who, you know, yeah, praise God, they're not struggling, they're connected. And you know, families who love them and communities that care about them and maybe they, they don't, you know, have those kinds of problems. But what would you say to the parent who's thinking this is a little bit shocking?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, I would say, all right, that's okay. It's okay. These videos were meant to be invitational to get the conversation flowing. And so for the parent who's concerned, who's worried, it's okay that you feel that way. these are your children and it is very difficult to navigate not only their educational development, but also your own. As you're walking alongside your children, you're actually growing more mature and growing older as well. And so you're learning things. So it's okay to have that bit of, you know, this is uncomfortable. This is something that I have to learn as well. And I think we forget that because, because of that early stage which you had mentioned a while back in the show, that early stage where we're there doing everything for our kid to make sure they survive. You know, it's really life or death, right? When they're a baby, you're, you're feeding them, you're doing everything for them and they cannot survive without you. But that changes over time and we grow with that and our relationship to our Children changes over time. And so I would tell them, you know, on the. At the start, it's okay that you're uncomfortable. what we appreciate is that you're willing to be a bit uncomfortable to truly serve your children, who God has placed as gifts under your care to help them grow and develop into mature believers.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I always say, Mary Jo, that as adults, as parents in this generation, we have a love hate relationship with pop culture. We love the pop culture that we grew up with, and we hate the pop culture that our kids are growing up with. But there is a generational gap. And just this week, I was speaking at a major university, and I was speaking to a group of educators, and I showed them a series of pictures. I showed them, and I said, okay, everyone stand up, and if you don't know the answer, sit down. So they stand up. I show them a picture of Bon Jovi. Everybody knows. Everybody knows Donny Osmond, you know, they all know. I, asked them, who does Joanie love? They all say, chachi. You know, I say, be kind. They all say, rewind in unison. It's almost like a little cult here. And they're giving each other high fives, and they're so excited. They know the answers. you know, you get to have some harder ones, like who did Luke marry on General Hospital? That's. That's Laura. See, I can hear our listeners saying, I know that answer. But then when you. I show them popular figures from today's culture, they. They're like, I don't know. And that's dumb. You know, that's what. Then that's really kind of what, what kids think that we think about their culture. There's just this kind of, you know, like. Like disdain, for Gen Z culture. And there's so many negative things said about Gen Z, Mary Jo. You know, they're snowflakes, they're weak, they're lazy, they don't work. I mean, just insert any. And. And I feel like there is. There is an element of Gen Z that listens to that, and they think, okay, there's not an invitation to these conversations. And I think sometimes we look at their world and we want it to be Mayberry. You know, we want it to be how we want it to be, but we have to face the reality of what they're facing. We have to meet them where they are so that we can guide them to where they want to be. But the hard thing is, sometimes we don't want to do that.

Darkroom program uses narrative approach to help Gen Z grapple with faith issues

So you talk about this Darkroom program as a Gen Z narrative driven approach. What do you mean by that? Walk us more through that specifically for these things that Gen Z are wrestling with.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, the narrative approach, which I described as collecting stories from students about their faith struggles is really important to the ah, program because not only are students seeing themselves in the narratives of our characters, but, it's more accessible to them to approach some of these hard conversations through story. Through the story. It's kind of like what Jesus was doing with the parables, in Scripture, like the seed Sower and the prodigal Son. There are elements of truth, in there that they can grasp onto. When they see themselves in that story, it makes more sense to them. And so they become a little bit more open to hearing some that are engaging with some of these hard truths about, God, about reality, about human flourishing, when they can encounter it in a way that's a bit more accessible, which is through those parables, right through the stories. And that's why the narrative approach is very important. you talked about the sage on the stage, the lecturer format, the expert up front. Well, we've known for a while, it's not just Gen Z and Alpha, you know, it goes back further into the boomer generation of that sort of distrust of authority. And that's been going on for a long time. So when we just present ourselves as in an authoritarian model like My Way or the highway, that's not speaking to these younger generations. They want what you were talking about. Like Gen Alpha, Gen Z, they want the guide by my side. They want personal, they want interactive, they want to be engaged in real life with you because their life revolves around the superficial digital life. And Gen Z are digital narratives or narrative native. But Gen Alpha are AI natives. And so this is presenting a whole new level of, a superficial reality to them. So they're craving that, personal integrative mentorship guide, you know, that guidance from real people, having real experiences with them as they're growing and maturing.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, that's actually kind of terrifying really, to think about, Mary Jo, because we think about digital natives and how Gen Z technology is an expectation. And just like you said in the beginning, they have expectations for, for excellence. I mean, I can't tell you, how many times my kids might watch a video and think they'd say, I can do better with my iPhone. You know, like this is. They have very high expectations for technology integration and delivery. But thinking about Jen Alpha being AI natives, I mean, we, as older generations, we're not even fully. I still have to get my kids to help me with the remote, you know, and to think about how the AI is going to change things, that's really hard. But here's the thing that I see, Mary Jo. That AI, of course, is artificial intelligence. And from, you know, for all generations, for throughout American history, they do crave authenticity. And we know that that is something that this generation, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, that they want, they want authenticity, they want those meaningful face to face interactions. But they have so many digital interactions and Covid certainly exacerbated that by isolating them from their social support system and their peer networks and all of those kinds of things. I really feel like, Mary Jo, they are craving conversation. They want someone who's going to look them in the eye, show interest in them and talk to them. And the really terrifying part from my seat on this is I see a lot of kids who are groomed into abusive situations because they are wanting that so badly. It impacts their judgment and it's so intoxicating, it so attractive that they are just drawn to it like moths to a flame. Because as parents we are so distracted, our faces are in our phones. We are only talking with them about logistics, what time do you need to be at soccer practice, when is your poster board due, you know, those kinds of things. And they are really wanting deep conversations. And I think it makes me think of the scripture that says, don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers. And that's something that we can do. So when we come back. We're coming up on another break here. Mary Jo, I want to explore a little bit more about that and talk about how we can use curriculum like darkroom, use this video based content and especially the power of story. Even before video based content, I would read out loud to my kids because having a story, reading them a story, I used actually Robin Jones Gunn series of books about a girl named Christy Miller. Just a girl growing up, just trying to not be awkward and to live out her faith. Just very everyday situations. But I found that it was much easier to read them a story about Christy and then say, what would you have done in that situation? Or what do you think's going to happen next? Rather than saying, well, today we are going to talk about the pressure you will have maybe to drink and how you should not do that. You know, it's just so much more awkward to say that. But when we come back, I, will ask, ask Mary Jo about that and we'll talk about darkroom again. You can go to darkroomfaith.com access this free resource. You can join a community of over 10,000 darkroom leaders who are leading these conversations where we're cultivating curiosity and answering questions about kids faith to help them feel stronger and supported. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

American Family Association is fighting to restore biblical values in American families

>> Jeff Chamblee  Buddy Smith: We live in a day when America's families are under attack like never before. Buddy Smith, senior, vice president of the American Family Association. The war against biblical principles rages on numerous families, the Internet, Hollywood, Washington, D.C. america's corporate boardrooms. And the list goes on. At American Family Association. We're committed to standing against the enemies of God, the enemies of your family. And we recognize it's an impossible task without God's favor and your partnership. Thank you for being faithful to pray for this ministry, to give financially and to respond to our calls for activism. What you do on the home front is crucial to what we do on the battlefront. We praise God for your faithfulness and may he give us many victories in the battles ahead as we work together to restore our nation's biblical foundations.

>> Thank You Lord by Chris Tomlin and Friends: Thank you Lord for the small things like me and her on a porch swing the summer nights and fire fly and the sound of my old six string Blessings on blessings on blessings on blessings if I still got breath in these lungs then that's all I need to get down on my knees and be thankful for all that he's done for my mama, for my friends, for your love that never ends for the songs that make us dance on this older floor for my babies, for my girl, for the wedding Change my world where big enough today. Yeah, I just got to say thank you, Lord.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That song is thank you, Lord by Chris Tomlin and friends. And you know what I'm thankful for today? I'm thankful for you. I am thankful that you are here listening, that you are looking for hope for a healthy family. Because if that is you, you have come to the right place. We are so grateful to have listeners with from families of all ages and stages and walks of life. And no matter where you are in life, if you're, you are a young person, a young professional, if you are in the middle of your life, if you're a parent, you're a grandparent, you're an aunt, you're an uncle, you're a living human being. We have a new generation of kids, Generation Z, Generation Alpha, who are longing for authentic conversations. And we're talking today about that. Cultivating Curious faith conversations. We're talking with Mary Jo Sharp. She has shared her story of being a former atheist, coming to know the Lord through a Bible given to her by her band teacher and finding her faith in college. Whereas many people lose their religion or lose their faith in college, she's found it and she has used that to create a new resource called Darkroom. You can go to darkroomfaith.com this is a video based curriculum that's completely free that helps start conversations. Now we talked in the second segment about how some of you will go to this and you'll think, oh my goodness, is this what kids are facing? Yes, this is what kids are facing. Kids are facing a pretty dark world and they're looking for light that we can provide to them not by being the sage on the stage, but by being the guide on the side and answering their questions. So what do you see, Mary Jo, about these conversations? Because so often I think parents, adults, they're hesitant to initiate conversation with kids about these topics. And kids think, well, without any invitation, I don't even know that you know about this or that you understand the language to describe it. I'm sure not going to tell you because, because that feels awkward. How do you bridge that gap and help cultivate those conversations?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Oh my goodness, what a question.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Just solve world peace. Okay. In about 30 seconds. All right.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah. So with that caveat, there's a lot of different situations and circumstances, right? Because we're all coming out of our own childhood and our own backgrounds that we're handling in order to be better parents and better disciples of Jesus. And so, so one of the things, I think what I could say more generally is that paying attention to our own growth and development in Christ and to truly being a disciple, of Jesus, which means being a lifelong learner ourselves and demonstrating that love of learning is going to go a long way to developing, the space for our students, our children to have that same, that same feel to them, that same, we'll put it in more modern terms, that same vibe. Right? Yeah, you want them to pick up on that? the same in education is more of taught than taught. And so that's what you've been, you've been all around that with the sage on the stage versus the guide on the side. We want to model that we care about learning about God because we don't have all the answers, that we're still in the process of growing. And so, that I think our attitude, where we demonstrate curiosity ourselves, we demonstrate that, we care very deeply about the truth because we are followers of Jesus. Going to that John 18 passage that those who are of the truth, my people are the ones who are of the truth. They listen to my voice. Right? We're the people who listen to truth. So that takes learning. That takes, being able to listen well. And I think developing that in ourselves, showing our own children and students that we are in the process of transformation, that we're trying to let the Holy Spirit teach us, helps us to then model that for them and create that space where they say, okay, this person is somebody I can actually talk with. Ah, and bring somebody conversations to light. Now, kids aren't going to do that on their own. So sometimes you need something to help you, like darkroom faith, which are these videos. Hey, we can watch this. Look, I found these really cool videos. Let's check them out and then maybe we can talk about the content in them. And then again, like I said, there's a curriculum that you can look at so you feel more prepared, more informed. But yeah, I think one of the biggest things we can do is to really value our own transforming towards Christ likeness. And that includes our own education, talking to ourselves about our own relationship with Christ, that we're getting to a more emotionally mature relationship with Christ that helps us create those safe spaces for our children, for students, and then that's a better environment for learning.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Overall, I like what you said about cultivating our own curiosity. And listen, if you're feeling awkward about that and you don't know where to start, just start with their vocabulary. If they tell you something is skibidi Ohio toilet like, just ask them. I don't understand that. Can you please explain that to me? And they, and they love that. Because if you give them a position that they can teach you something, then it becomes more of a mutual exchange of information rather than you just lecturing them and telling them everything they need to know. But I mean, really, some of the words they use actually, you know, I have to be really proud of myself here, Mary Jo, because I know all these words, but my kids will tell you I cannot use them appropriately in a sentence. Please don't, Mom. Ew. That's cringe. That's what they'll say. But you know when they say things like Rizzler or give me a phantom tax or delulu, I mean, just stop and ask and cultivate some curiosity and say, hey, let me tell you about some of the things that we used to say when I was growing up. And this is. This is very, very funn to them. And another way to cultivate curiosity, I think, Mary Jo, is because this generation is so obsessed with what they call vintage, which hurts so much, because we're talking about things like Walkmans and CD players and record players, you know, that are just so old or 90s clothes, you know, literally from the last century. Find ways to cultivate curiosity over things, maybe, that aren't so heavy, that makes it more natural in your family and your relationship so that curiosity carries over so more easily. Now, Mary Jo, what I hear from a lot of parents is they don't want their kids to be exposed to things that they haven't yet been exposed to. And the answer that I give to that is that that ship has sailed. We should absolutely do everything that we can to protect our kids in every way that we can. But I believe that we must have small amounts of controlled exposure in a way that's developmentally appropriate. That positions us as the expert and gives that invitation in the open door. And I think that parents might find that in Darkroom Faith. Again, you can go to darkroomfaith.com you want to screen these first and then watch it with your kids. Watching media with your kids is valuable no matter what media it is. And if you look at what your kids are streaming, many of us would be very, very surprised to know what kids are streaming. When you look at how much content is uploaded, how much is normal, how much kids share so easily, it's really important for us to be ahead of that and to be realistic in talking about what they're exposed to and help them to respond to that.

Mary Jo recommends big group videos and then small group conversation

So how do you see leaders functioning in that for Darkroom Mary Jo, how do you. How would you use this, this resource? What would you give advice to on getting started?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Oh, yeah, definitely, what you've already talked about, which is I would go ahead and screen it myself first and look at the curriculum and see what is the best way to use this with my. With a group of students. Would it be, some pastors will use, like, they'll do a big group where they all watch the video, and then they'll break out into small groups, which gives students more of an opportunity to speak, because some, you know, some people just in general, not just students, but people do better in smaller groups rather than trying to discuss this with a large group of people. So I would definitely say, you know, screen it first, see what you're going to tackle first. Maybe some of the topics are a little more Approachable. Like our video on doubt. I think that one's very approachable, and more easy to digest. And you could start there, rather than starting with some of the harder topics on the problem of evil or love or some of those issues. so definitely, yeah, get in there yourself, look through the curriculum and then see what's the best way to present this. But I would recommend, you know, maybe big group videos and then small group conversation. Or if you're doing this one on one, just having like, hey, let's. Let's watch this. These are kind of cool. And then, you know, tell me what you think about it. So open it up invitationally for the younger students to talk, rather than for you to tell them what you think about it right away.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that's a really good idea. And again, you know, looking at this in a group, you may think, oh, do we want to present this to the group? Well, I can tell you, as a mom of four teenagers, I have literally had four teenagers at once. Don't give me the condolences or the prayers or the laughs. I actually loved having four teenagers at once. I'm coming at my listeners here because that is a good thing. But they, you know, in some ways, Mary Jo, my kids were very sheltered because I was the pediatric nurse who had seen all of the worst of everything. So in some ways I feel like I was overprotective. But in other ways, they knew the work that I did, and they have a realistic view of the world, and they were involved in life groups. And I cannot tell you how many times they would come home where a student would just disclose something. It's called trauma dumping, where they'll just say, hey, I'm going through this. And I thought, okay. And then it's like whenever they come home and tell me, you know, a friend had voiced suicidal ideation or disclosed an addiction or an eating disorder, it's like, there's a record scratch in my world, right? Like, okay, my next two hours has just gone. I've got to drop whatever I'm doing to meet this in the need right now. Whereas having that controlled exposure, when they do encounter that trauma dumping, they feel like they're equipped to respond. I feel like knowledge is power in that, and that is. And that's really powerful. And you said something else really important, Mary Jo. I wanted to go back to being the, video on doubt being accessible. And, you know, I think parents get afraid of doubt, too. And we think about. About who else that none other than doubting Thomas, right? Like he has that moniker forever. But one of my guests on not too long ago was talking about how Jesus was having a conversation with his disciples. And this is recounted in the book of John. And, and he's, you know, and he's telling them where I'm going, you're going to come. And it is Thomas who says, actually we don't know the way. God, can you tell us that we don't know the way? Lord, we will you tell us the way? And he says, I am the way, the truth and the life. And I think Jesus knew Thomas, he knew his inquisitive spirit. He wasn't afraid of that. He said, put your hands and you know, the scars in my hand. And I think we can learn from that, from, and having that and cultivating that curiosity and not being afraid of our kids doubts. Do you see it that way too?

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, absolutely. when you see, when you think about what a human being is, we have rationality, we have, we have emotions, we have all this mix of things that God has made us with. He designed us that way. But what he didn't give us was omniscience. Right? He did not give us.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Darn, I'm so disappointed.

>> Mary Jo Sharp: Yeah, but just letting yourself soak in that you don't have all the answers. In fact, one human lifetime is not long enough to get all the answers. And even then you never will. Right. Because you're not God. So giving yourself that space to not have the answers, to understand your position in the world, I think will help you with engaging students or engaging your own kids. They don't expect you to have all the answers. I think that we talked about this earlier. Maybe it's the part of us changing our mindset from if I don't have the answer, my baby will die. If I don't know how to feed them into, they're older now, you know, they could actually make themselves a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and they can do things on their own, because they're at a different stage of life and so adjusting our own expectations ourselves along with our student or our child growing, at their level and where they're at, I think that really just opens you up to being like, it's okay, I don't have to have all the answers. What I need to have is that loving, safe environment where I'm purposely intentionally creating circumstance in which my child can absolutely come to me with whatever they need to come to me with. And I think that is when you can create something like that, even if it's just a little hint of it, a little taste of it, if it's not there yet, that's so valuable. in fact, I remember for me thinking when my daughter was very young, my goal as, she was aging was I want my daughter to feel like in her adulthood that this home is her safe space from the insanity that's out there in the world. And so the choices that I made, to read the books that she was reading in high school and then discuss them with her, just to be there to create that space, to talk to her about her life, to care about what she was saying, giggle at her funny colloquialisms that her culture was developing, that was intentional because I wanted to be there for her throughout my entire life and be that space for her.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I love that. And I'm sure you don't regret that at all, that investment at all. Just cultivating that curiosity again. That's our prescription for hope today, is cultivating curious faith conversations. Make those a normal part of your everyday life. And just talking to kids about what they're facing again. You can go to darkroom faith.com that's darkroomfaith.com and access this free video based curriculum as a jumping off place to see how can you start those conversations and help kids to seek the answers. And Mary Jo, what you said reminded me of one of my favorite quotes where I don't know where it came from, but I hold on to it that if God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be be worshiped. And so as you're wrestling with those questions at home, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for being willing to engage in curious conversations. And we'll see you right back here tomorrow.

>> Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.