Transcript

Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here

 : on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Prayer shapes how our families respond to things in this world

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we've got a powerful program for you today. We are talking about something that is really, really important and something that everybody listening can do. And it is something that we know about as believers, as Christians, but we don't often use to our advantage. We think about it as something we do, not someone we are. And you're probably thinking, what in the world are you talking about, Jessica? Well, hang on and I'm going to tell you because let me first tell you something that you already know. We are raising families in a culture and that monetizes, that prioritizes urgency. Everything feels urgent, fast, emergent, like if you are not there, if you are not on it, the world is going to fall apart. We have notifications that never, ever stop and schedules that are packed. And not surprisingly, anxiety is high. And many parents are carrying this quiet, heavy question. In the midst of all that, we want to flip form of faith in our children that sticks. We want to have a lasting faith. We want them to grow up to love God and serve others and not walk away from their faith. But in that environment. Here's what I was talking about at the top here. It is prayer that is so important. If you've been listening along to our 52 Habits for Healthy Family series, you'll know that. Week one, the first week out of the gate in January, I talked about how important, how formational prayer is for families. And we all want to skip to the quick fix and we all want to do the things that are tangible that seem to really give us, an return on our investment immediately. Prayer is often misunderstood, and honestly, it can be really misused in families. For a lot of us, we use prayer as kind of a ritual. It's something that, yeah, we say it before meals or we Say prayers before bedtime. That's a great thing. We want that. But sometimes it's just an afterthought, like, it's just, oh, yeah, we should pray about this too. Or moments of crisis or when we see an ambul passing by. And sometimes prayer feels like it has to be a performance where we worry about saying the right words or saying the right kind of prayer, or we act like when we have to pray in front of other people that it's all of a sudden a pop quiz. Like, oh, what, kind of prayer are they? How is that? And it can be nerve wracking, but Scripture really shows us something different. Prayer was never meant to be a formula. It was never meant to be a fix all a latch, a, last ditch effort. It is one of the most powerful gift that God has given family. Not because it guarantees outcomes, but because it forms faith and it forms hearts. Prayer shapes how our families respond to things that happen to us in this world. To fear, to grief, to disappointment, to waiting, even to joy. And it quietly teaches our kids what we believe about God long before they have the words to articulate that themselves. And so today we're going to talk about prayer not as something that families can do, but as something that families are marked by. And we'll go through five, traits that Scripture consistently reveals in the lives of people shaped by prayer. Those traits are helplessness, scripture centeredness, personal grief, deferred confidence and presence mindedness. And if you think, oh, you lost me, don't worry. I have a guide here with us today to walk us through.

G. Dwayne McCrary writes about how prayer changes lives

Our guest today is G. Dwayne McCrary. He's author of the book Marked by Prayer, Five Traits of People who Pray. And he serves as the manager of adult ongoing Bible studies at Lifeway Christian Resources. He's an adjunct professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, has more than two decades of pastoral experience, and he helps believers and listeners today understand how prayer doesn't just change situations, it forms people and families and faith legacy. Dwayne so glad to have you here today. This is something I love to talk about and I'm so grateful for your time and for your heart for this.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation today. I'm very pleased that you allow me to converse with you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I think it's going to be a conversation that will encourage so many because prayer is just one of the foundational spiritual habits that really radically changed my life and it is such a lifeline for me and so that makes me passionate about it.

Dwayne says he didn't understand who God was until high school

DWAYNE I would love to know why you're so passionate about it. Can you tell us a little bit about your story? How you came to know the Lord and how he put this message of prayer on your heart for us today?

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, I grew up in East Texas and, went, to church my whole life, those kind of things, but didn't understand who God was until I was in high school. I broke my leg playing football. And it forced me to ask some hard questions. the biggest one was, is there something in life that can't be taken away from me? And so my Sunday school teacher had dropped the Sunday school book by my house. I, was in a cast. I couldn't go anywhere. And so I started reading the Bible and using that Sunday school book to guide me. And it happened to be on the Gospel of Mark. And when I came to, Mark 8 and Mark 10, the. The words follow me kept echoing, especially the. The challenge to the, the rich young ruler where Jesus said, you know, shall, every have gift to the poor and come follow me. And the guy left. And what kept going through my mind is, I don't want that to be my story. I don't want that to be how it ends for me. And so there in my bedroom by myself, with that, my Bible in one hand and that Sunday school book in the other, I asked Christ if I could follow him. And he accepted me. And that was the start of the journey. You, mentioned about my prayer life. God's put some important people in my life who's helped me understand that, one being my wife. And there is no one, that I consider a bigger prayer warrior or someone marked by prayer more than Lisa Ray.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love hearing that. I mean, that is such a high compliment. That is really high praise there, for sure. And Dwayne, it's. It is not lost on me that you started your story with talking about an injury that you had in high school. And I think sometimes we can. You know, I think of the verse, don't let anyone look down on you because you're young. And sometimes we can look at those things that happen in the lives of young people and think, is that really that important in the grand scheme of things? You know, we can kind of minimize those experiences. And yet even all these years later, that's the mark of your testimony. And I think that is a good point for us to recognize that God can work in the hearts of young people and use circumstances that they experience in their teenage years and to change and form Their hearts for life. I think that's a beautiful thing. So I just wanted to point that out.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Sure. And one of the things I would share about that is after Lisa and I were engaged, she told me that she never would have imagined that when she had prayed for her future spouse as a high school student, that it would be someone outside her friendship circle. And so I asked her if she could remember when she prayed that and any specifics about it. And she had it in a journal, and she shared it with me. And she had a date on it. And the. The prayer was that if God didn't have my attention, that he would do something to get it. And when I looked at, Still bothers me today, still brings emotion to me. Now. I looked at it. The date was the day I broke my ankle.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You're kidding.

G. Dwayne McCrary: and so I knew, okay, there's no question that this is the person God has for me to spend my life with. And so, in some ways, I owe my salvation to Lisa Ray, because she was willing to pray that prayer as a high school student.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, shout out to Lisa Ray. That is absolutely beautiful, Dwayne. It sounds like she was a woman marked by prayer even before, you know, you knew her. And now, having walked with her in marriage for decades now, what does it mean to you to be a woman marked by prayer? A person marked by prayer. What kinds of things do you see in their life that makes them marked by prayer?

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, you know, you've mentioned those from the book, the pattern that I saw. I started reading, various, books about prayer, looking at patterns, and a pattern emerged where they were helpless. At some point, something happened in their life that. That drove them to a sense of helplessness. It's different for different people. what may. May make one person feel helpless, may not feel. Make another person feel helpless. So it's very tailored. And that helplessness draws them and forces them to look at, something beyond themselves as being able to. To solve it. So typically, they turn to scripture. And while in scripture, they start discovering who God is. and that informs how they pray. they.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I was just gonna say, Dwayne, that, you know, when you hear the word helpless, like, nobody wants that. I mean, really, if we're honest, nobody says, oh, you know, I really like, Well, I mean, Lisa had a pretty bold prayer. If you don't have my attention, I pray that you would get it. I don't think that most of us are bold enough to pray, oh, God, make me helpless. Like, that is so honestly, it's anti American, it is anti our culture. It feels like, you know, because we, we value, like a self made man. Pull up yourself by your bootstra. You know, you, you God helps those who help themselves, which people misattribute to scripture and that is not in the Bible at all.

Dwayne: Follow me means put my foot where his foot was

But I think this is such an encouraging reframe because I'm thinking about parents today and parents feel fearful and they do feel helpless. They feel helpless against this wave, this tsunami of technology that's overwhelming their families. It feels like every day there's something new to be afraid of and they can't stop it. How do you stop, you know, smartphones, social media, AI, you know, fentanyl, like human trafficking, all these things that we're afraid of. But you are saying that that is a characteristic of someone marked by prayer. Let's talk more about how we can reframe that from a unattractive, characteristic, an undesirable characteristic, to one that God uses to, in a way that, that is good help. Help us, to help us make that shift.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, you think about the call of Scripture. Follow me means put my foot where his foot was. the closer I'm stepping in that, that, that path, the better I will be, the better off I'll be, the safer I'll be. that requires me to trust him and not depend on my own abilities, whether I look to the right or the left. one of the things that's dawned on me is the closer I get to Jesus, the less likely I can look to the right or left and see more of what's around me. because his, he will be in the way and I won't be able to see anything but his, his back. and so that's what closeness would infer, that sense of, of being near Him. Once again, it depends. It's all relative to us being willing to follow him, which means we're not following ourselves. Therefore, we're not trusting ourselves, which is a place of helplessness. if we, if we trust ourselves and we get what we can provide, if we trust him, we'll get what he provides. And that's a, that's an easy trade off for me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love that picture that the thought of getting closer to Jesus and not being able to look around as much and have. Be so distracted. I'm sure, Dwayne, that you've had the same, same experience in my own life. When I'm in the valleys, when I am going through hard times, I have Never felt the presence of the Lord more closely walking with me in that time. And one of the things that you said is, you know, when you're in that place, you're driven to the scriptures and you start to recognize who God is. And that's the contrast for me, Dwayne, because I think, okay, if I'm in a hard time, like, do I want to just rely on myself, all of the wisdom and strength that I can muster out of my own soul, or do I want to, to tap into the power of the God who hung the earth on its foundation? I, I think about the scriptures from Job in that way. And, and that leads us to the second principle, which is scripture centeredness. And we're just now going to a break, Dwayne, but give us just a little one minute preview of what's to come and what we'll talk about more when we come back.

The Bible gives us an opportunity to include silence in our prayer time

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, we think about prayer as conversation with God, but most of the times we approach prayer as us talking and us never listening to what God has to say. And the Bible gives us that opportunity when we include it in our prayer time.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is a tremendous opportunity. And I think something that again, is really hard in this culture because we are not accustomed, to silence, we are not accustomed to stillness. And I'm going to be really honest, it's something that I struggle with too because we have a major distractor that we carry around with us 24 7. It's called our phone, where we're tempted just to scroll. Any moment of silence, we just fill with information input. And most of the time that's not coming from scripture, but the power of just sitting and listening and let the Lord speak to you. I know my husband told me that not too long ago, he just felt like God told him, turn off the radio, just sit and listen. When we come back, we'll back come continue talking about the five traits of people who are marked by prayer. We're talking with G. Dwayne McCrary. The book marked by prayer will be right back after this break. Don't miss it.

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Praise by Brandon Lake, Chris Brown, and Chandler Moore: outnumbered and praise when surrounded 'Cause praise is the water my enemies drown in as long as I'm breathing I've got a reason to Praise the Lord oh my soul Praise the Lord.

G. Duane McCrary talks about prayer when life feels overwhelming

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is praise by Brandon Lake, Chris Brown and Chandler Moore. And I praise God for you today. I'm so grateful that you're listening in. Listen, you are in for a, blessing today because we're talking about something that is so important and yet so under underwhelming, really in our, in our society today, so overlooked. We're talking about prayer. My guest today is G. Dwayne McCrary and we're talking about his book Marked by Prayer, Five Traits of People who Pray. And when we look at our kids and our families, one of the earliest lessons that we learn as children isn't what our parents are saying about God, but where we turn when life feels overwhelming. We can say all of the right things, but what really happens when trial comes knocking at our door, when trauma happens, when things happen that are beyond our control. And the two characteristics we've talked about so far are helplessness and scripture centeredness. And we've talked about how those go hand in hand, recognizing that we really do have so little power, we have so little control. But the good news is we serve a God who loves us, who gave his son for us, who is, whose heart is as a good, good father to, to listen to our prayers. And that is something that comfort in for sure.

 We talked about helplessness and scripture centeredness

And Dwayne we were just talking about scripture centeredness and how important that is for families today. And I would love for you to talk a little bit to parents who maybe just feel like, okay, I get it, but you know, prayer is we, we do pray together, but it's not like we have a strategy. I wouldn't call us a family marked by prayer. How would you translate those two concepts? We talked about helplessness and scripture centeredness into a strategy to be a family marked by prayer.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Well, you think about when we pray with our kids. I have two children. They and now have grandchildren. I've got four grandchildren. The most common question we'll ask them is, what do you want to pray about? as opposed to taking an approach of, we're going to read this Bible passage. We may read it from a simplified translation or something like that where they can better understand it. And then we say, okay, now, how do we see God in this passage? Oh, we see God here. He's someone who, is a mighty warrior. Hey, you know, I know that you've got some things going on in school. how does him being a mighty warrior help you face those things? Let's stop and thank him for being a mighty warrior. That's a whole different approach to, to prayer. that brings freshness. it avoids the. I, want to pray for my dolls who are sitting right over there watching this question. or, you know, something like that. But it, it lets us allow scripture to dictate how we pray and what we pray for. I mentioned earlier, you know, we say prayer is a conversation with God. one of the things I found in my own life is I have a tendency to tell him what he's going to do more so than what I'm going to do. I've quit using a prayer list in my morning prayer time. I have a prayer list I use other times during the day, but not in the morning time, because it becomes a to do list. God, here's the to do list. Here's the things you got to do. Here's the things I got to do. I'll talk to you tomorrow. We'll check back in. As opposed to saying, okay, God, help me see this passage in a fresh way. Help me hear what you need me to know today. show me who you are in this passage and then help me, Help me live out that reality today in the relationships I have, in the things I've got to do. it's funny how he brings to my memory those things that he points out each day. but that, that's given me, it's restored my, my practice of, of praying where it's not some, action I do each day to check off the list, but it's something I look forward to. This is what God's going to tell me today, just like I would have a conversation with my wife or someone else, and then I'm going to respond to that if my wife tells me something, she's saying it with anticipation that I'm going to respond back. Okay, so God tells me something, I'm going to respond back. I'm going to record that. I may record multiple things. I may just camp at that one in that one spot and not move off of it until he's clear. it may take a whole week for that to happen because I can be hard headed. But, at least I'm stopping enough to let him talk to me. for me, that's the part that was missing in my prayer life was stopping and letting him talk to me. one of the things I've started doing too, Jessica, is instead of using my study Bible or my teaching Bible, I have a, a new Bible that has no notes in it. So it's, it's forcing me to look at a Bible passage through fresh eyes, and helping me listen more attentively. Otherwise I'd depend on the notes I already have written there and wouldn't consider it in a fresh way. And so those things have been helpful to me when I think about what it means to be, to pray biblically informed.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm already getting ideas here. Dwayne This is really exciting to think about the potential and we all have room to grow.

Starting to pray in that way will change the atmosphere in your home

And you said something really important here. Coming to God with your to do list. I think that is the, one of the ways that we most commonly use prayer. And I know that, you know, when we, when we pray we usually are going to God for somebody interceding for somebody who sick or in trouble. That, that's the two things that we usually have. Okay, God, here's your to do list. Here who's, here's who's sick, like he doesn't already know. Here's who's in trouble, like he doesn't already know, you know, and say help that. I remember my husband coming home from a deacon meeting one time and saying that the prayer time was so frustrating for him because it was just basically a, you know, a 20 minute litany, which I don't mean to demean the need for prayer for these people. Like we definitely need to pray for Great Aunt Betty's infected toenail. You know, I mean those things are important and those things. Do all of those things need care. I say that with compassion as a nurse, a little bit tongue in cheek here. But at the same time, the way that you're talking about prayer is really radically different and focused on who God is, not what you're telling him. To do. And in this way, one of the things that you talk about in the book, and really that is so true, is that starting to pray in that way will really change the atmosphere in your home because it shifts the way that you are seeing God yourself and the way that you are showing God to your kids. How do we, how do we take that then, and then change the atmosphere of our home?

G. Dwayne McCrary: you have to model it. like I mentioned, hey, here's what the Bible says then. We pray based on what we just read. we let, let God be centered at that point. when our kids were younger, we would do prayer walks through our house, asking God, hey you, you showed us this in, in your word. is there something here that we need to change or do differently in our house to, to deal with this issue or to more, more align with who you are in our, in, in our lifestyle? some of those were hard because it would, it may have involved, we're not going to have a TV in this part of the house anymore or something like that. But God has been gracious to my family and he's a, he's allowed us to experience his mercy, his provision and his grace. it's not perfect. it's. And I think that's a reality. We got to realize it's not going to be perfect. our families are going to, going to face issues and challenges and we have to accept that that's partly what it means to deal with the idea of, of praying with that, that grieving over sinned in mind. we live in a broken world and it impacts our families. And that's not to be discouraging, it's just to be, truthful. there are challenges in life. good people die young. we get sick. we face this challenge, that challenge that does not diminish the fact that God loves us and cares for us.

Dwayne: you mentioned Job earlier. And it is so relatable to life today

you mentioned Job earlier. The funny thing to me about Job is Job never doesn't know why. He's just told to keep trusting God. one of my favorite parts of that book is when God says, where were you when I hung these stars up here? Tell me, Teach me. I, ah, would have loved to know what went through Job's mind at that point. but, we've got to approach life that way, knowing that we do live in a world. It was not created this way, but we messed it up and we live in that reality. it breaks my heart, ah, to see what We've made this world into. But that also helps me understand what God must think every morning, every night. I was having a conversation with someone the other day, and they made the comment, so, you know, I'm losing sleep over this. And it dawned on me. You know, we'd say that God never sleeps, never slumbers. He loses sleep every night over us. and so it. When. When I'm in those situations where I'm losing sleep because of a challenge, I need to. I need to realize and ask the question, God, what do you. What have I done that's caused you to feel this same way? Because I've done some things that's caused him to feel that same way, that it disappointed him, that's hurting. and I have to think of it that way. he's been gracious to me. once I begin to think of it that way, then I can be gracious to others. I can't really be gracious to others until I understand his grace towards me. And that's. That's the hardest part of it for me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree. It is so hard. And I. I'm doing a Bible study right now, actually, on the book of Job. And it is so relatable to life today. Job doesn't know why he's facing the trial. He has no idea, you know, that all of this drama is going on in throne room of heaven. And his friends come over, right? And they start to spout off all of this advice, which some of it is.

G. Dwayne McCrary: They are great friends. Wouldn't you love to have those as your friends?

Dr. Jessica Peck: No, I really wouldn't. But we all have friends like that. And we all are friends like that, right, where we go over and we try to offer our own wisdom, you know, oh, well, maybe you're going through it because of this, or, you know, we feel like it's our own spiritual pop quiz. But it's not until Job talks directly with the Lord, where he has those moments of prayer and God lets him let out all of his emotion. You know, he. Job does not hold back and says, like, you know, oh, this is really, really terrible. But I know that my redeemer lives. I am certain of that. And then you're right. God comes back and says, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? And it's such a good perspective for us in prayer because we can think, oh, we have just you know, a small little sliver understanding and then trying to fit that narrative into what we think. And yet we're praying to the God, who. I said at the beginning, he laid the earth on its foundations. He spoke the world into existence. I mean, we can't even imagine that. And, and the two characteristics that you're talking about here, Dwayne, now, are our, personal grief, which you talked about, grief over our sin, and deferred confidence. How do we bring these into families? Because I feel like, so often today, everything's about fun. Everything's about treat yourself, feel good, like you know you do, do pursue your happiness. And like you said, it's like, we don't want to be the. The Chicken Littles of the world, but at the same time, we have a realistic appraisal of what the world is like. How do we leverage those characteristics of personal grief and deferred confidence to strengthen our prayer life and ultimately give us joy?

G. Dwayne McCrary: You know, it's hard as a, guy in some ways because your. Your children look for you to fix everything. and. And you will give it an effort, even if you don't know how. you may make it worse, but you'll find a way to hide that you made it worse from them. you'll. You'll. You'll do something because you feel that sense of, I need to be Superman to this family. and we're not willing to admit that we're not capable. It gets at our pride. you know, one of the things that I think about with all five of these is they deal with our pride. helplessness deals with pride. biblically informed, trusting his wisdom instead of our own, grieving over sin. I don't like to admit I did something wrong. deferred confidence, which is what we're talking about right now. I like being in charge. I don't. I don't want to admit that I have limits. and then presence minded also, deals with pride, because when we're in the presence of God, we understand who we are, and we are not God, and he is. And so all of them, all of them in the background is some m. Sense of pride getting in our way. and I shared this with. With some folks last week when I was visiting with them. their question was, how do you stay humble? And they assumed I was, I'm thinking y' all don't know me. because the biggest thing for me to deal with is. Is the pride issue. and I have to constantly ask God to help me keep that in check. and these five things remind me of the importance of that for myself. one of the things I would say Jessica. I teach a preschool Sunday school class at our church. We call it Connect groups, but it's the same thing. It meets every Sunday. I actually teach two. I teach a 50 year old class, I go to worship and then during the second worship I teach the four year old class. The most common question asked by a parent when they pick up their child is did you have fun today? Now think about what's suddenly being asked there. it's not about did you learn something? did you meet a new friend? it's did you have fun today? The one thing that's fleeting is what's asked about as opposed to the things that could be eternal. What truth did you learn? What friend did you make? I mean, just, just think about the things that could be asked. So one thing we could think about as parents, just those kinds of questions.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I, I love that I. Dwayne, we're already at our second break, which I can't believe. You know the. I think the difference between 4 year olds and 50 year olds is at least the 4 year olds are more honest about what's going on at home in their prayer requests. But you're so right. I have talked about that many times before work with a children's minister who said that. We'll talk about more about that and unpack that some more and talk about the next two characteristics when we come back marked by prayer. See you in a minute. It all came down to the ultrasound and I saw this little lima bean looking thing with a halo, which I thought was incredible.

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Don't Stop Praying by Matthew West: When you've cried and you've cried till your tears run dry the answer won't come and you don't know why and and you wonder if you can bow your head even one more time don't stop praying don't stop calling on Jesus name Keep on pounding on heaven's door Let your knees wear out the floor don't stop believing cause mountains move with just a little faith and your Father's heard every single word you're saying so don't stop praying Welcome m back friends.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is Don't Stop Praying by Matthew west. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. Don't stop praying. I am having a delightful conversation with G. Dwayne McCrary who wrote a book called Marked by Prayer Five Traits of People who Pray. And I think when we think about, us as parents and that we don't want our kids just to know about God. We want them to, to know who God is and who he is in their lives. It is so important. Prayer is such an important part of that. It is such a foundational concept for families and something that we just don't use enough. We think that we need to pray when someone is sick or someone is in trouble, which those are absolutely times that we need to pray. But prayer is so much more about who God is rather than what Dwayne said, what we tell him to do.

Dwayne: Presence mindedness is a desire to be in God's presence

And so Dwayne, I want to go to this, this last characteristic that we're talking about and that is one of presence mindedness. Break that down for us. Tell us what does that mean, to have presence mindedness, to be as a character trait of someone who's marked by prayer?

G. Dwayne McCrary: It's a strong desire to be in the presence of God. Whether you're by yourself or whether there's a group, others are welcome to join you. But that's not why you're pursuing that presence. You just want to be in his presence. it's, it's the. I, there's a two sided part of that, by the way. One is you want to be in his present, but the other part of it is you're afraid to be in his presence. Both of them are working at the same time. You realize when you do that that you're not, not equal to him in any form or fashion. Yet he invites you in. so there's acceptance, there's comfort in that, that overcomes your re, your feelings of inadequacy, and of shame. his invitation removes. That covers that. Let's think of it that way. It covers that so that then you can be who you are in front of him. And he accepts that. I, I find a great deal of peace in knowing that God accepts me just the way I am. Doesn't mean he's going to let me stay the way I am. But he's willing for me to come into his presence just the way I am. And so that presence then drives us in some ways. You have a circle. You're in his presence, you realize I'm helpless. Well then that causes you to go find out more about who God is. Then you find out. Then, there's more sin that needs to be confessed. You grieve over that. Do you, you realize too then I, I can't. I'm not capable of, of getting rid of my own sin. But he provided for that. He allows me to confess, it allows me to get those things straight. And then I'm back in his presence again and I'm making that circle, each time a little bit deeper. Actually I think of it a little bit more higher, maybe a little bit closer to who he is and what he wants us to be. And so that presence mindedness, being in his presence really drives everything else that's happening there.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you're reminding me of the scripture about in his presence is the fullness of joy. And that's really what we want. It's so much better than happiness. It is joy in God's presence and knowing that no matter what the world may throw our way, that God is in control and in some way that we cannot understand here on work, on earth. I've heard it said so often that if God, if God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. There's some things that we don't understand. One of the things that you write about in your book is all five of these characteristics that we've talked about of a person who's marked by prayer, helplessness, scripture centeredness, personal grief, deferred confidence, and presence mindedness. Underneath all five of those is a daily willingness to follow Jesus no matter what. Now I'm thinking I have decided to follow Jesus. I'm saying bring back the Sunday school, bring back the Flannel graph. Like, there's some things that are just timeless truths.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: The world may change, but God doesn't change. And what is that willingness to follow Jesus, no matter what? Those are three really big words there.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Yeah, the, You bring up a song. I think of the song. He walks with me, he talks with

Dr. Jessica Peck: me, tells me I am his own

G. Dwayne McCrary: as a ver. As opposed to I walk with him or he walks with me. You know, I think the difference here is when we think about following Jesus, it's about us following him and not him joining us on our path. A lot of times I find myself guilty saying, well, God, I've got this due today. I want you to. I need you to help me. And he may say, well, you need to understand I've got a different agenda. This is what I want you to do today. You need to follow me and not expect me to follow you because you're going to take me somewhere I don't really care to go. And, you're going to get in trouble by doing that. You need to stay on the path that I'm defining. That happened to me earlier this week. I was. I've been praying through the book of James and came to the passage about confess. and in chapter five. And there was, there was something that happened in it and, were brought to my attention. Remembrance, of something you and. And God said, you just need to tell your wife about this in your life. I'm thinking that was before we ever met. That was before I was even a believer. all those kind of things. So I fought it all day long. I was on my path, not his path. And, eventually, I was miserable, by the way. I'll just tell you that. Eventually I pulled my wife away and said, I just got to tell you something. And so I told her this. and, she said, well, I already knew about it. You just didn't know I knew about it. And I'm thinking, how did you know that? But that's okay. but, I could not focus through the day until that happened because I wasn't on his path. What's interesting is once that happened, my mind was suddenly clear the rest of the day, and I could do the things I needed to get or I felt I needed to get done. But the agenda that day was not what I had on my list. The agenda for the day was me getting that out in the open with my wife from way however many years ago it was. I don't even know how long ago it was, I couldn't tell you. And that's something I completely forgot about. But for whatever reason, I don't know why, but for whatever reason I had to get that cleared out. And so that's, that's his agenda, not mine. That's what, what I think of when I think about following him. In the book, I use an illustration about a bicycle ride, where the front rider is a seeing rider, in the back rider is a, is someone who's blind. He was actually a service member who had, who had lost his eyesight while serving overseas. And the guy in back completely depended upon the guy in front. You don't know if you're turning right or left. You don't know what angle is. He completely was dependent upon the person in front of and they were doing 100 mile ride together. I was worn out when I got done doing the hundred miles by myself. I can't imagine what it was like to be the first. The person in front having to tell that person right turn, left turn, all those kind of things. Even tell them when to put their foot down for stopping. but it is a strong illustration of what it means to follow him is we have to be that dependent knowing that if we get out of step with him, we're going to crash and we've got to, we've got to stay in sync with him. He's not going to tell us things that that we're not going to be willing to put in place. Why would he? some of it may be a testifying if we're going to put it in place like job.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Job.

G. Dwayne McCrary: But other times it's going to be hey, if you want to know this, then you need to get rid of this sin. Whatever it is. Could be. That's a small thing. I didn't even remember that you had to bring it to my memory. you got to get rid of that and then you can take this next step. Okay. My day would have been so much easier if I had just gone, woken up my wife and said hey, I got to talk to you and, and move forward from there. she would have looked at me like what on earth are you doing now? Because I'm, I'm an early person. She's not. And so I can relate my, it

Dr. Jessica Peck: probably wouldn't have been as well received.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Yeah, yeah. So me not waking her up. She was appreciative.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Dwayne, what you're talking about is, is this is really Important. And I think that all of us as Christians, we would, we would say like, oh yeah, we, we don't, we, we want to be like that. But if we're really honest when you're talking about, you know, like wanting God to be on your side, that is kind of how we pray. I mean, you see it a lot before sports games, you know, where they'll, the sports team prays for victory. And you know, I mean that I, I'm not trivializing that. And I want people to pray before sports games. But so often we're really gut level honest. We try to, we treat God like a, a fairy godfather in the sky. You know, like, okay, let's go to him with our bucket list of all the things that we want and kind of this idea that, hey, we're going to follow God and He's going to make our life so much better and our path is going to be so much easier. And yet that's not true. And so there's, that's the tension that we hold, right, that, that we know that it's going to be, that it'll be tough to follow Jesus. So then why do we do it? Where's the, where's the compelling, you know, where's the compelling part of it? Where's the, where's the but in there? What do you think, Dwayne?

G. Dwayne McCrary: we do it because God loves us and he wants to do what. He wants to give us a life that's meaningful and that is the best for us and gives us a tool to honor Him. And the way we do that is by getting in step with his heart. T.W. hunt in his book, it's called the Doctrine. Or, yeah, the original book was called the Doctrine of Prayer and eventually it was reprinted under the title of, the Life Changing Power of Prayer. Makes, the point that the whole purpose of prayer is for us to align ourselves with God's heart so we can rule, rule, govern in a way that is, that reflects his purposes and goals. when we think about it in those terms, it changes why we pray. We don't pray to tell God this is what you're going to do. We pray to find out how we lead, how we, how we govern, how we lead in the world he created, following the standards that he established. it's his world and if we don't know his heart, we can't lead it well. So that changes for me, that changes the whole purpose of why we pray. and then once I understood that, then it Gives me a different urgency on praying each day.

Dr. Jessica Peck: There should be an urgency to pray each day. And I just think about, again, it goes back to that scripture centeredness piece for me. Dwayne, when you look at who God is, there are so many times in my life where I faced really difficult things and I'm reminded about who God is and his heart for me and, and that is his heart for, for all mankind. That is in the Bible, that He didn't come to just give us life. He came to give us life more abundantly. In his presence, there's fullness of joy. He's our glory. He's the lifter of our head. I just think of so many, so many things that I pray and speak over my children. And we know that in this world we will have trouble. There is no one who would disagree with that. Believer or not. We agree that the world is a broken, scary, tragic place at times. And we have hope in this greater story. I don't want the best hope for my children. I've talked a lot about, Jonathan Haidt's book the Anxious Generation. And one of my biggest critiques of that book has been that his vision for CHA is to restore play based childhood, which I'm all for. Dwayne. I want our kids to have a play based childhood. I want us to have healthier families. I want all of those things. But my vision is for my kids to be joint heirs with Christ. That's where I'm going. And that is, that is, that's a lot higher. And there's a lot of things that happen in the meantime in that. And I've just learned in my life that, you know, I've learned in whatever the circumstance to be content because I know that God loves me so much more than I could ever even have a love for myself that I could ever even dream or imagine for myself. And that his ways are higher than our ways, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And I find so much joy in the, in the presence of the Lord and praying and talking and listening with Him.

Dwayne, what is the one thing that readers will take away from reading your book?

Dwayne, what is the one thing that you hope that readers will take away from reading your book? Marked by prayer.

G. Dwayne McCrary: Learn to fall in love with God in His Word again. And let that, let that guide how you pray as opposed to a prayer list. Let God's Word and how he reveals Himself to you be your prayer guide.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is a great place to start when you're talking about prayer. You know, I know there's lots of people and, I've Talked with lots of people who just feel uncomfortable praying out loud or praying on the spot. But things that I've learned to do. Dwayne. Or when people ask me for prayer or they express a need, I say, can I pray for you right now? Not, not just, I'll pray for you. And kind of that platitude that we have, and we really mean that in a good way. But just let me pray for you right now. And if you don't know what else to pray, pray God's word. Memorize a psalm, memorize a passage of scripture. It's really powerful to just speak that out loud and to let God's word, be. Be your prayer that's reflected back to him so often. I will do that for myself and for my children. Dwayne I've been so encouraged by speaking with you today. Again, the book is called Marked by Prayer. Five traits of People Who Pray Everybody in their life needs an intercessor. I believe someone who you can call and pray. And if you ask to pray for you, and if you have that person in your life, hey, send them a text message, call them, send them an email, tell them at church, hey, I noticed that you are a person who is marked by prayer, and that is encouraging to me. And I know that will encourage them. And I pray that as you do that, as you really pray about your prayer journey, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.