Transcript

Preborn needs your help to provide ultrasounds for pregnant women

Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello.

 : And welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. How is everyone doing? How are you doing? I know these winter storms are stuck still sweeping across the country. Many of you are dealing with the impacts of those of the chaos that happens in a winter storm. Please know that we are praying for you, we are thinking of you and I encourage you to do something for a community somewhere. Reach out to a friend, you know, volunteer, donate or just pray for those who are impacted. And one thing that you can do that we're still working on that is a great positive impact. If you feel discouraged by all of the bad news that's coming your way, it seems like January has rolled out that way. Then you can give to preborn ministries. We are still working on our goal of trying to sponsor 5,000 ultrasounds for women to give them this amazing opportunity to be able to see and meet their baby. And $28 provides one woman seeking an abortion a free ultrasound and gives a mom an opportunity to choose life with wraparound support that comes for two years after that. So preborn is into holistic support and you can donate at 877-616-2396. That's 877-616-2396. I pray that you would prayerfully consider donating and being a part of that campaign.

Interest in faith is growing among younger generations, but discipleship lags

And today we've got a topic I've been talking about actually a lot with a lot of different guests. I've been writing about it in the stand and the truth is in spite of all of this doom scrolling today we are living in a fascinating and really a glimmer of hope there hopeful note about this. This is a moment in American culture that we're seeing and across the country something is stirring spiritually. We feel it, we see it. We see Bible sales rising especially among younger generations. We See faith content really exploding online. There, is scripture, there's sermons, there's theological conversations. These things are being shared millions of times across social platforms. And even after many years of decline, some churches are reporting increased attendance. And the hopeful thing in that is, particularly among Gen Z and young adults, that is definitely a hopeful thing. And we have organizations like Barna, like Pew Research, and reporting from outlets like the Wall Street Journal and Axios, which have very different functions, very different audiences, but they all point to the same reality. Interest in faith and is growing again. It is growing, but here's the tension. While interest is rising and we see this spiritual curiosity, we see discipleship that is lagging. People are curious, but they remain unconnected. They are not connected into a community of faith. They are not connected into their own personal faith journey. They may be consuming spiritual content, but, but they are not walking in spiritual community. And that is the paradox of this generation that we see across every kind of context. This is the most digitally connected generation we have seen, but the most relationally disconnected. Of course, that was exacerbated by Covid, where we had just a normalization, of online interactions and people who are seeking influencer content. That may, may be good, maybe encouraging. There's lots of content that's encouraging. I hope that you are encouraged here on American Family Radio, but it's not the same as opening the Bible and reading yourself. Jesus did not leave behind a podcast feed for us. He formed people, he taught in person, he walked in relationship. He built a church through shared life, shared meals, shared mission. And the early church gathered around the Word and around each other. And that's why really, we're talking in 52 Habits for Healthy Families. Habit number two is reading and memorizing scripture, not outsourcing your faith, but really opening your Bible and digging in. Not just relying on Sunday sermons, on social media, sound bites, opening God's word, personally expecting to meet a living God there. And that's why I'm so excited to welcome today's guest.

Kelly Needham co-author with husband of new Bible study See for Yourself

We have Kelly Needham. Today, she is co author, along with her husband of a brand new 10 session Bible study that releases March 2nd from B& H Publishing. It's called See for Yourself. And this is not just about a spiritual checklist, about checking boxes, is about becoming a scholar, about learning more. It's really an invitation to discipleship, to discover that the Bible is understandable, it's approachable, and it is alive. Kelly, we are so glad to have you here today. Thank you for joining us.

Kelly Needham: You're welcome. I'm so glad to be here with you, Jessica.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kelly, I'll tell you. I was talking with a youth minister yesterday, happened to mention that you were coming on the show today, and he brought up a scripture from Proverbs about good reputation. He went to Dallas Baptist University and talked about the impact of you and your husband in the ministry. And he said when you hear that verse about good reputation, that's who comes to mind. So I welcome you with that compliment, knowing you are impacting so many young people. And thank you for the work that you're doing.

Kelly Needham: Wow, that's so encouraging. Praise God for that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, why don't you introduce yourself to our audience and just tell them a little bit about your life, about how you came to know the Lord and how God put this on your heart. And you're sitting in front of us today sharing a Bible study.

Kelly Needham: Yeah, well, wife, and mom, been Married for almost 20 years now. Got married when I was 20 years old in the middle of college to a husband who was touring around the world as a musician and a singer songwriter. We now have five kids, three biological, two adopted. And so we are right in the middle of all of that good parenting work. And I came to know Jesus in junior high, actually, and I'm, a church kid. Grew up going to church and youth group. And I had a Sunday school teacher who helped fuel my appetite for God's Word in those very formative years. And so I began reading the Bible on my own in those years, at home. And I had so many questions because the Bible can be really overwhelming and intimidating when you're reading it on your own. And so, again, to have someone alongside me, that Sunday school, Mrs. Peeler, who would listen to all of my crazy questions and fuel that learning, was really transformative for me and gave me a deep walk with Jesus at a young age. And that was something over years of time and even doing a lot of ministry with college students who were at Dallas Baptist University and others realizing most people didn't have that, they weren't feeling the confidence to open the Bible for themselves. They always felt like they needed a study or someone else to hold their hand. And I just felt so, grieved by that because that had become such a delight to me to meet with God in the pages of the Bible. And that's really where the, the desire for this project came from and why I'm excited for other people to have it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Kelly, shout out to Mrs. Puller. I love that there have been so Many guests that we've had on who have talked about the faithful testimony of someone who just sat in front of their Sunday school class many times with a felt board. I always have to mention the felt board. But regardless, just opening God's word and just demonstrating faithfulness. And that's not something that you're going to see on an influencer platform or something that gets a lot of accolades in this world. But that's the kind of legacy that is so impactful and so encouraging. And as I said, Kelly, in the introduction, we're seeing rising Bible sales, we're seeing people engage with faith based content online, which those are not bad things, those are great things, those are hopeful things. Even church attendance ticking upward. Why do you think people are suddenly spiritually more open right now? What do you see as someone who's in ministry is what's driving that curiosity?

Kelly Needham: Yeah, I think in some ways, it's very similar to the message of the book of Ecclesiastes. What I mean by that is we're in a very prosperous age where most of us can get whatever we want on Amazon and pay for it in four payments if we want. And there's a lot of access to things. We're seeing the lives of other people around the world on Instagram. And so there's kind of just an overexposure, I think, to a lot of really good things. They're not bad, but we feel the meaninglessness in it all. And really, if you don't find meaning in the person of Jesus, there really is nothing else out there. And sometimes it's when you get to the end of trying everything that you realize, wow, this still isn't enough. Well, well then what else is there? And I think that's one reason of probably many that people are turning to spirituality and then more and more Bible sales. So I think that, that's one reason. I'm sure there's so many others, but I'm excited about that trend and seeing that take place. It's very exciting.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It is exciting and at the same time it is the flip side of that is that we see a lot of people who are spiritually curious but not connected in a community of faith who are not picking up their Bible reading on their own. They're just outsourcing their discipleship to the algorithm. And this is concerning to me because we're not being intentional about it. You're just kind of letting the algorithm feed you and maybe what you want to hear and maybe something that's just a Niche topic and something that doesn't. Someone who doesn't know you across from an influencer platform and isn't going to speak tough truth to you, also isn't going to show up at your door with a casserole when something happens that you need, that just basic care and ministry. Why do you think there's this disconnect between interest and starting your own discipleship journey, like actually doing what it takes to open your Bible every day and start reading?

Kelly Needham: well, I think that's because it's hard and scary. You know, it's so much easier to be a passive recipient of content that's fed to you. And especially when it's content that's exactly what you want to hear, that's perfectly curated because of the algorithm to the particular interest you have in the Bible. But of course, we know to be whole people, we need all of God's word. And not only that, we need God's people alongside it. That has always been how we grow. But the Bible is really intimidating on your own. But it's essential to be able to discern, like you said, which of those messages are actually biblically informed, are actually true. We need more and more. I think there we're going to all need that ability to take what we're hearing about God's Word from others and go check it, to check it, the sources, right? To go back to the original document, go to the Word and go, is that true? But for many people, those skills have not been cultivated. It's been too intimidating. And again, it's usually comes through a type of apprenticeship, like my Sunday school teacher, right, who sat with me and helped me learn those skills to be able to grow in confidence to go to the Bible on my own. And so if you're not connected to a people who can help you do that and someone who can show you what it looks like to be able to open a book of the Bible, read it and meet God in its pages. Well then, this book that's so long and it's ancient literature, it's hard to understand upon maybe first reading, can feel very distant and like not the help that we want, but it's actually becoming more and more necessary for us because of the many messages that are out there.

Dr. Jessica Peck: There are so many competing messages. And I love the title of this study, Kelly, See for yourself. And that is the message really that is so relevant and I think will resonate especially with younger people today. But anybody who is hearing all of these competing messages, especially when we see a cultural event happen. We can see people using scriptures in very different ways and having arguments about it. And I think it goes to what you said, Kelly. That can be scary and just causes us to. Well, I didn't go to seminary. I'm not sure. I don't know what to think. But then when we're outsourcing our Bible reading and discipleship, you've got to know, like, where to find the verse. What does the verse actually say? What version of the Bible are you reading? Because there's so many things, I think, that can be misattributed and misquoted. You know, I say this all the time. You know, there's things like God helps those who help themselves, not actually in the Bible. And so knowing your Bible and there's nothing that can replace that one on one time with the Lord and learning his voice. I think about my sheep, know my voice, and I, I want to be a sheep because sometimes I feel like that's the intellectual capacity that I have at that moment trying to interpret all of these things. But one quote that I heard that I hold on to, Kelly, is if, if God was small enough to be understood, he would not be big enough to be worshiped. And that's what I hold on to. So we have so much more to talk about, Kelly, but tell us where we can find the Bible study as we go into our first break here.

Kelly Needham: Yeah, well, you can go to lifeway.com and search for. See for yourself. You'll see a series of videos and places where you can learn more about the study and pre order it there.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And there's a men's version and a women's version, is that correct?

Kelly Needham: That's right. They're, com. They're meant to go together. Same language, same exercises throughout. I'm teaching the videos for the women, Jimmy's teaching the videos for the men. But they do go hand in hand. They can be done together. So, yes, a men's and women's version available.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Kelly, I cannot even imagine what might happen if men and women, if husbands and wives came together and said, hey, let's do a Bible study together, what kind of impact that would have? Because I firmly believe that God blesses small steps of obedience. When you take a step in that right direction, when you demonstrate faith like a mustard seed so small, God is going to meet you in that moment. And that is really encouraging. Listen, we'll be right back with more from Kelly Needham. but we're talking about the Bible study, See for Yourself and we. And when we come back, we'll talk about some of the common barriers that people have to reading the Bible. I don't have enough time. It's scary. But most importantly, how do we disciple the next generation? I'll be right back after this break.

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This Is My Song by Heath Balltzglier, Mac Powell, and NORTH POIN: Sang in Christ alone My solid ground Amazing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Grace Just how sweet the sound on that rugged cross Jesus paid it all because he lives. This is my song. Welcome back, friends. That is this is my Song by North Point Worship. And that's what we're talking about today. What is your song? What is your story of salvation? I have a child who's in college who told me that at their church the last Sunday they wrote out a 15 second testimony of who I used to be, who I am now because of the redeeming grace of Christ. And it was so encouraging. And I think about that and think that God has done such a marvelous work and God is doing something. Around the world, especially in younger generations, we are seeing a spiritual curiosity. We are seeing Bible sales soaring. I've had guests on who have talked about how for the first time in a very long time, there is increasing demand for men's Bible studies. True story. I had a guest who said that a publisher told him that they had lived and survived on selling women's Bible studies. But all of a sudden, people want men's Bible studies. And today the good news is we have both of those for you. We have a, men's and women's Bible study that go together called See for Yourself by Jimmy and Kelly Needham. And that curiosity that you have, that is such a great starting point.

What is getting in the way of us opening our Bible and just reading it?

But discipleship requires intention, and that's what we're seeing. The gap and so we're talking about today. What is getting in the way of us opening our Bible and just reading it for ourselves. And most people, they don't read the Bible because they say, oh, well, I don't want to read that. That's not. I'm not interested in that. Most people say, I know I should. I want to. I mean that all of these things just happen. They're just overwhelmed, they're confused, they're distracted all of the time. Kelly, what do you see as the biggest barriers for. Why can't we just do that? Simple discipline. Just open our Bibles and read it every day.

Kelly Needham: Yes. There's a lot of reasons for that, but I think one of the big ones is we've never been shown how. I think there's a lot of Christians who have only used intermediary resources to engage the Bible. That's a devotional or a Bible study or someone else is teaching it. But to just open up a book of the Bible and say, I'm going to read the book of Deuteronomy, it's like, that's really overwhelming. How would I know what to do when I get there? We, usually have to have someone show us. And that's one of the reasons Jimmy and I wrote this study, is we wanted to be those people right beside you, to go, let me show you how to do this. Because there are men and women who gave their lives under the belief that the Bible should be written in the common language. Because everyone deserves access to God's whole word because they can understand it for themselves. And so it's a good reminder sometimes to just say, that's. That's a privilege. I have to read God's word in my own language. That I understand. So let me go ahead and do that. But we usually need someone to kind of sit with us and go, what do you do when you hit a verse in the Bible that feels so out of left field, you don't even see how it's connected everything else. Or what about when you read something you really don't like? Like, I just. I understand what it says, but I don't like what it says. And I don't know how to handle this new tension I have in my Bible reading. We need someone to come alongside and give us some skills. And so that's what this study is aiming to do.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, let's talk about how it does that. Because this Bible, study. See for yourself, your goal is to practically equip readers, not just to read the words on a page. Not just to, okay, let's check a box. And I read Deuteronomy or I read what Ecclesiastes read through the book, but actually to understand it. So you. I think that there's a lot of people listening who would think, yeah, that's it. Like, I. When I'm sitting there, I'm afraid I'll misunderstand something, I'll misinterpret something. I'll be overwhelmed. How does this Bible study that you wrote, how do you hope to be that guide on the side for someone who's really wanting to dig into the word of God themselves?

Kelly Needham: Yeah, well, the study from beginning to end is really not as much content focused I as skills focused. Now, of course, we're, we're digging into the Bible to see what it says about itself. So there's a lot of content throughout. But most Bible studies are written to help you understand either a particular book of the Bible or a particular theme. This study exists to demonstrate skills and then pass those skills onto you and help you practice them. And all throughout, Jimmy and I have created videos where we're doing the exercises with you so that at that moment, you're going, am I doing this right? We can be right there with you. You can pull up a video and go, here's me, I'm reading this chap with you and going, here are the questions I have. Just giving people permission to come in with, a blank slate. I mean, no one comes to the Bible upon first reading and knows everything and understands everything. This book was actually meant to be understood over a lifetime of many multiple readings. That's how this literature, how this book, God designed it to be, interpreted and understood. And that means that part of our journey is learning to be okay with some confusion, some tension. And this study is trying to build that in while giving you all the safeguards you need to make sure you know you're doing it right, quote, unquote, right, that you're not getting into the weeds of misunderstanding. And so we're giving all those basic guardrails and skills, coaching you how to do it, giving you exercises and checking in with you along the way to go. You're doing great. Let's work on this new skill that builds on top of the last one.

Dr. Jessica Peck: This sounds like something that could really meet families where they are. One of the things I love and appreciate about it, Kelly, is that it doesn't replace that spiritual discipline. It's a supplement. It's an encouragement. It's a tool, it's a strength Because I think that's one thing that we're doing. I've been thinking about this so much, subconsciously outsourcing our discipleship, having someone read the Bible to us on an app. Those things are not bad. You know, listening to a podcast, that's not bad. I hope people are listening today. But I also hope that it's a supplement to those main core spiritual disciplines. We're talking about praying, pray, having an intimate relationship with God, where you are praying one on one on a regular basis. We're talking about reading your Bible, opening the pages of your Bible, reading God's word, asking God to reveal himself to you, and going to church. Those are the three main spiritual disciplines that just cannot be outsourced or replaced by an algorithm or an influencer. And I'm so grateful, Kelly, that this is a great tool for people who are saying, okay, I recognize maybe I'm drifting in that way. How do I get back to basics? That's. That's really helpful. And I think we've talked about it a little bit. One of the biggest barriers that people say is time. But, you know, for me, I think God has a sense of humor. Because for whatever reason, my iPhone tells me on Sunday mornings as I'm walking into church what my weekly screen time report is. And it's almost like, you know, the Lord is saying, like, didn't m have time for that, did you? Oh, okay. Well, let's take a look at that.

Kelly Needham: That. How. How.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And you're a mom. You're a busy mom. You've got lots of kids at home. You're in that. That busy stage of parenting. How do you find time to make this a priority?

Kelly Needham: Well, we first have to understand that we make time for what we want. And when we are not reading our Bibles, the truest statement is to say, I'm not making time for it. Not I don't have time. I'm not making time. I'm not prioritizing the time. All of us, us have time to eat. Sometimes I tell people that. How often are you eating? Well, you're eating quite a bit because that's important to you and necessary. But our souls need the same type of food, and that won't look the same for all of us. In every season of life, there's a flexibility. We all have to build into this habit, because when you have a newborn, there are different things you're capable of than in a season where your kids are older and they're all in school. Right? And if you have children or don't have children if you're dealing with a disability or sickness for yourself or someone else. So I don't think it will always look the same. But I do think all of us who are following after Jesus do need to have some diet of the Bible into our lives in a regular and consistent basis. And one of the things that I think keeps people from prioritizing it is because it's intimidating and scary and they don't know what to do when they get there. That even if you make the time for it, when you sit down and you look at this huge book and go, I don't. What do I do? Do I read a psalm? There's, there's. There's 50 different plans out there. You've heard from people. And so even just the decision about what to do and where to start can feel so overwhelming and so distasteful. And how we experience that moment that we kind of actually start putting it off because we're overwhelmed. And so I want people to have not just the skills, but then to leave this study and go, okay, for me in my life stage right now, this is actually. The study ends, is with you making a plan. When am I going to sit down and meet with God in the pages of His Word? What am I going to do when I get there? I'm going to decide in advance what book am I going to be reading and how am I going to do that, and then what's my backup time? I think that's really important because if your time is early in the morning and you sleep in, well, what's your backup time? If I oversleep through breakfast, my backup plan is I'm going to grab something on the go or I'm going to eat an earlier lunch. We do this with food again, the Bible is like spiritual food. It's not wrong to have that kind of. Of planning about our Bible reading. it doesn't come from a sense of God. God is not more pleased with us when we read His Word. If we are in Christ, we are perfected in Christ. There's nothing more you can do to be m. Made, better in his sight. But this is spiritual food and nourishment for you. And you do need it like you need a meal. And so it's right to prioritize it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's funny, Kelly, it's really unrelated, but I just had a thought. We've been doing a series with a guest named Kathi Lipp called the Declutter Diaries, and we've been talking about the impact of clutter and our homes, our hearts, our relationships, and how, so many of the things that are difficult with clutter are exactly what you just said. You get decision fatigue. You don't know what to get rid of and what to keep, and you're just overwhelmed by all of the things that are there. So you just have, like, this analysis paralysis. I think that's really helpful. And that may be a moment where somebody's thinking, yeah, okay, that's me. I haven't really moved forward because I'm just. I'm overwhelmed. And I'm grateful that you have a resource that helps people take that first step. Say, okay, I'm going to make time. And one of the things that happened to me, Kelly, when I started reading God's Word on a daily basis, which I do, it very quickly transitioned from feeling like a chore, like something I had to do, to, oh, I can't wait to see what happens today. I can't wait to see what God is going to reveal to me today. And it becomes something I look forward to. And I love your analogy of just needing that, that soul nourishment, like we need the, the body nourishment.

Kelly: One of the biggest things I'm excited about is highly practical

So tell us, Kelly, what other practical tools are in here to help with some of those barriers, that decision fatigue, that intimidation? We've got a plan, we've got a guide on the side, the video, what else makes it practical, and it's going to make it easier to walk through?

Kelly Needham: Yeah, well, one thing is that throughout this entire study, you're just gaining new tools in your tool belt that you can pull out as needed when you sit down. And so it's broadening your, the ways in which you engage God's word faithfully. Even if you're confused and you don't understand, you're going to have tools in your tool belt to be able to tackle that moment. But I think the biggest. One of the biggest things I'm excited about that I think is highly practical is in the very first week we talk about the very purpose of the Bible. Why does it exist? And according to Jesus, it exists as a type of bridge to get you to him that he says in John chapter five to the religious leaders, you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have life. Life. But it is these that point to me, and you wouldn't come to me. And I think one reason we struggle in Bible reading is because we don't engage God in it. We feel like we need to, read it and figure something out and then maybe come talk to Him. But the Bible's actually meant to be read relationally, that when we sit down and we open it up and we read something, as soon as we're confused, frustrated, overwhelmed, we start talking to him. God, I don't know what to do with this. I'm really confused. I have 40 questions about this verse. And, and I'm gonna ask you all of em, like our kids. Kids do, right? That the Bible is meant to be read that way. And so the entire first week is building that in from the beginning that not only would you read on your own, you would read with God, and then also that you would learn to read with God's people. And I think those two skills which we've already just talked about, the importance of prayer, and the importance of the local body. And this study from the very first week is going. You are meant to read this book with both those things attached to it. It is not meant to be this academic study session where you learn a lot of good information because Jesus said, life is not found in the book itself. It exists as a bridge to point you to me. It's extremely important. But it is a means to an end. You are meant to travel through these words in prayer to talk to God and get to know a real and living God alongside His people. And I know that may not seem like brand new news to, to people listening, but I actually think it's a skill very few people actually practice. And that skill is what's going to open the door for us to be able to enjoy His Word in all the ways that we were meant to.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I feel like I can hear all of the older generations cheering here because there is something to be said for the simplicity of it. And I think in today's culture, Kelly, we are so distracted by the shiny object we're looking for. Oh, this app that's going to make Bible study so much easier.

Kelly Needham: We.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Which if it does, great. I am not saying that those are bad things, but we're looking for the quick fix. We're looking for the instant growth. We're looking for the big transformation, you know, moment. And really the truth is, for 2000 years, since the beginning of the church, there is nothing that replaces those spiritual disciplines. And, and it's just about as simple as opening up your Bible and starting to read. And instead of being like. I think sometimes people feel like that's almost a letdown. Like, o. Like that's all like, where, where's the. Where's the good part that should be so encouraging to us that God has made that way so simple. Do you, do you see that in your. And your ministry?

Kelly Needham: A hundred percent. It is so much simpler than we realize and so much less exciting. Maybe, but I think we need permission to go. You know what most of my Bible reading feels like. It feels pretty plain and ordinary. I mean, there are those occasional moments of seeing connections, and it's kind of sparks are flying and my brain is lighting up with, oh, I understand this in a new way. But a lot of it is this a daily intake of something very ordinary that is over time. You're seeing a plant grow into a tree, and that doesn't happen overnight. But you have to start somewhere. You have to just get started. And I like giving people the permission to go. It's going to feel very, very ordinary. And that's exactly how it should feel. And God is going to meet you there. There's no, no magic way to do this. And if it feels like there is, you're probably actually not doing it right. It's a pretty ordinary practice.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's encouraging, but it's an ordinary practice. But really extraordinary, transformation over time. I love that you said it's like growing a tree. You know, we're not sitting there watching it. We don't think, oh, from yesterday to today, that that looks like an extraordinary transformation. But it is happening. And, and those extraordinary moments that I have, exactly like you said, like, every once in a while I just feel like I find this really amazing treasure. It's only because I understand it, because I've read so much. And then I can see the whole arc of the story, the whole cultural context, the historical context. It's like, oh, I see it now. That is an amazing thing. Listen, when we get come back, we're going to talk more with Kelly Needham about her Bible study. See for yourself, and about encountering God in the church. We'll be right back. Don't go away. We'll see you after this break.

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Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome Back friends, that is God Only Knows by For King and Country. And today I'm talking to Kelly Needham about a Bible study that she wrote with her husband. There is a study for men and a study for women that is supposed to go together. I can see husbands and wives taking this together. I can see brothers and sisters, especially teenagers, taking this together. And we're inviting you to be intentional in creating a plan to dive into God's Word for yourself. All of the places that you get spiritual content from online, from your Bible app, from your devotional, all of those things are great, but they should be supplementing reading God's Word and their Bible study. See for Yourself is an invitation to see for yourself. And as I'm thinking, about the song that was just playing God Only Knows. God Only knows how much you're reading your Bible. Now, that is not something that is supposed to be scary or punitive or, you know, you are not checking all of the lists of being a good Christian. You're not getting the front row pew reserved for you because you read your Bible. More than anything, this is an invitation to a relationship with a living God. And when we are not engaging in those basic spiritual disciplines and praying and reading our Bible and going to church, we're missing out on the blessings that God has for us and growing our faith. And so, Kelly, you were talking about this how, you know, we. We were talking before the break about how just as a culture, as human beings, we crave that instant transformation. We see that. And I mean, you can look at it through shows that have been popular, like Extreme Home Makeover, where we want to see that big transformation right away. But you have a great analogy of helping us understand why that may not be the best thing for us.

Kelly Needham: Actually came when I was writing this study. My daughter, who's a, ninth grader, is learning algebra. And I love algebra. I know that. So maybe nerdy of me, but that's okay. I loved it. And so she's coming to me with these problems, right? And I could solve the problem for her. I could absolutely do that. And that would give her the right answer, and then she would get a good grade on her homework. And that's one way to tackle the issue that my daughter needs to learn this concept of algebra. And it seems like she's learning it right if she's getting the right grades.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But she.

Kelly Needham: We know, right? She's not actually learning the principles of algebra. She's just getting the right answer to, to this particular problem. And what I actually need to do for her as her mom is. I'll help her. But go, no, you need to wrestle with this. You need to think about all the principles you've learned. You need to put them into place and actually, apply them to this particular situation. And then you're going to learn this in a real way. And for many of us, I think that's what we're doing with the Bible. We want to know what it says. We want those answers. And honestly, the answers are out there. A lot of the biblical content that is out there now is amazing. There is so much, much. There's bad content, of course, but there's so much great content right now. And you could find a great answer to every question you have about the Bible. But you're not actually learning the Bible, you're learning quick fix answers. But there's something we're missing if we're not willing to get into the pages for ourselves. And yes, read through all of that long description of the allotment of the land in the book of Joshua and read through a book like the book of Hebrews is which, which is so steeped in the Old Testament, Levitical law that it can feel very overwhelming. And wrestle with it and go, I don't understand. Let me do some looking. Let me look around and figure this out. When we give ourselves time and space and even permission to do that, we're actually learning something. But again, most of us don't have those skills to go about that process of learning God's word. And that's what this study exists to do, is give you those skills so that you can start that process, process of actually learning instead of gaining a surface level knowledge of the Bible that you're just really getting from other people's study and other people's hard work.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kelly, I confess I cannot relate to helping my kids with algebra. That was my husband did all of the numbers, I did the words. But I can relate because I would feel that same kind of pull if my kids brought me a paper that they had written. It would be so tempting for me just to edit it myself and just say, okay, here, it's done. But I'd say, no, like, they think about this, this isn't clear. Learning to help them develop their own voice. And it's that same way we've got to wrestle through those very ordinary moments that you described. And one of the things that trips people up that you and I were talking about, Kelly, during the break is even the structure of the Bible, because you talk about you Know, do we start in Genesis? Well, then all of a sudden things start to go out of order and then it takes a long time to get to the New Testament. You're right. There's a lot of Levitical law, there are a lot of genealogies, get through a lot of confusing passages of Scripture. And actually my, my sister in law is reading through the Bible in a year and she just had started a new plan and she said, man, there is some tough stuff in the beginning of this chronological reading.

This Bible study spends a whole week breaking down the structure of the Bible

But one of the things that this Bible study does, that you have, that you and your husband Jimmy wrote about, see for yourself, is you spend a whole week just breaking down the structure of the Bible and just starting at that level of Bible literacy. Give us a preview of that. Because I think that's something that we, we most of us, I won't say a percentage, but a lot of us need more help with.

Kelly Needham: That's right. Well, because of the ways most of us engaged the Bible have over years, we really haven't looked at it as a whole. Sometimes we're studying one book here and one book there and it feels very disjointed. But the Bible is actually an amazing work of literature. And so this whole week just spends time zooming out a little bit where you're learning about the, the Bible as a library because it actually, actually is, put together that way. There's a reason the books are not in order. They're actually on, think of them as like library shelves, right? So you've got books on a shelf called the Law and you've got books on a shelf called the Prophets and books on a shelf called Letters to the Churches. And so they're actually grouped together in a really thoughtful way and they're meant to be seen that way. But most of us don't even think about that. So there's a whole exercise where you're just getting familiar with, with where the books are on the shelves. And then later that week you're rewriting the names of the books of the Bible in chronological order to understand when they were written. And there's a lot of overlap in the Old Testament between the historical books and those prophets when they're writing. So to just give us a whole week to kind of like imagine it, like walking around with a librarian who's in a library going, let me just show you where the fiction is and let me show you where the computers are if you want to look something up. And let me teach you, you how to look something up all of that really matters, to use the library well. And so I think very few of us have actually had a moment where someone has sat down with us and taught us that. And I actually think it's a big hindrance to people. And that's why we put that in there right at the beginning. It's in that first section of the study. To go, let's just get oriented. And I think no matter how long you've been reading the Bible, how familiar you are with it, it's a really great overview and refresher and might be the first time you've ever had someone holistically sit down and go and go, let me look at this thing as a whole to gain some confidence when I go to it myself.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kelly, I'm going to date myself, but I've always been an avid reader, and I remember going to a library when I was in elementary school and having that library and show me how to use. Are you ready for it? The card catalog, which I know exists digitally now, but. Oh, once I knew how to use it, I loved it because there was an easy way that I could go and look for things that I wanted to read. And when I think about the card catalog and, you know, pulling out those shelves that are there, like, I can still smell how the paper smells. And, you know, I think that there's a lot of people who feel that way about the Bible, though, but not in an affectionate way of thinking, oh, that's a good thing. Thinking that sounds very old and dusty and dead, like, we don't do that anymore. And I think that a lot of people approach the Bible that way. They think it is an old dead book of days and values that have now been surpassed by culture. We've evolved, we've moved on. And, you know, those. They don't see the Bible as alive in any way, shape or form. How do you. How do you counteract that narrative that really has dominated society in some ways?

Kelly Needham: Yeah, well, this is why the Bible is so utterly unique. It is different than any other book you will ever read in your life because it is.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Is the.

Kelly Needham: Its claim of itself is. It is the very word of the living God from beginning to end, though God has partnered with men for it to be written and assembled. The claim of it is, this is supernatural. And in the book of Hebrews, it'll say that the word of God is living and active. Active. What book do you have on your shelf that is active? Well, this book claims that it is. I think that one way I'll tell people to think about the Bible. Is, is this way, like if you get the Bible into your life, stuff's gonna happen. It just will because it's alive. If I buy a new couch and put it in my house and then I go on vacation, you know what will happen when I come home? It will look the same. Because a couch is an inanimate object. Nothing changes. It is not alive in and of itself. But if I go get a puppy and I bring that puppy into my house and then I go on vacation for a week, when I come back, things will be different. There will be things wrong in my house because I put a living thing, thing in the home. And stuff will happen when you invite something living into your house. So when you start reading the Bible, when you start getting a regular diet of it in your life again, the day by day moment might not feel like anything's happening, but the guarantee of the Scriptures is it's living and active. And so if you put it into your heart, into your mind, if you open it and read it on a regular basis, you cannot stay the same same because it is a living book, it will change you. You will look up in a few weeks or a few months and go, you know what? My heart is responding differently to this same situation. Why? Why is that happening? I'm having a different emotional response, a different physical response to this situation. I'm doing different things. Why is all that happening? Well, you welcomed the living, breathing Word of God into your life and things cannot help but change because it is alive. And that to me is really encouraging because, because even if I am reading through, like you said, I think your sister, sister in law, right, is reading through these hard passages in the Bible. the guarantee is it's God's word. And so just the very act of reading it and engaging with it and bringing God all my questions I have about it, it's going to do something. I don't need to know exactly what it's going to do all the time, but I do have the confidence and the promise from His Word that things will change. And that gives me the confidence to keep reading even those hard to read places.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I think about the cultural thirst for experiences right now that is all the rage. People, especially younger generations, they want to spend their money on experiences where we might see past generations who would value more stable things like, you know, investing in a home or investing in a, and a savings account that you're going to leave for your family. This generation in this World, the moment right now is about travel, it's about adventure, it's about awesome, the, the beaten path. And I think that really is reflective of a people who may just feel spiritually dead. They may feel just relationally numb. They may just be looking for that experience. And I think we are missing out and trying to pursue counterfeits that are going to replace that feeling of life that comes from reading, engaging with the Word of God. Not that any of those experiences are bad. Those are not bad things in and of themselves. But I do think there are people who are searching for that feeling of vibrancy, that feeling of being alive. I mean, how often do you hear somebody telling their story and saying that they had a, big adventure or made a poor decision, even saying, I just wanted to feel alive. How can we remember that just going to the pages of God's Word can bring joy and growth in our life? It's not just a drudgery, a, ah, discipline that we have. But this is, you know, we know from God's Word that He did not come, that we just would have life, but that we would have life more abundantly, that we would have life to the fullest. How do we remember that as an encouragement?

Kelly Needham: Well, the Bible actually tells us that the very reason we exist, the very reason we were made, is for him, period. That we were actually made in his image. And different parts of the Bible will communicate to us that our very reason, for example, existence, is to know God, the living God, who, when you stare up at the night sky, if you have, the ability to be somewhere where there are no lights, right, to see planets and stars far in the distance, like, yeah, that God who's that big, inexhaustible. You have the ability to know him and have fellowship with him. And nothing will ever be enough until you go there. Everything is too small. You could live the most exciting life possible.

Kelly: Until we get to Christ and know him, our hearts are restless

And we see it in right celebrities all the time who do live the most exciting lives possible. And they're still dissatisfied because they were actually made for something bigger than that, bigger than what everything in this world has to offer. And so when I think about my Bible reading, which can feel again, so ordinary, it's like, what's wonderful about it is God chose that. God chose to reveal Himself to us in words. That's how he chose to do it. He chose to reveal Himself to us in the pages of this book. But he does not exist. This book is not him. Right? It is pointing to Him. And so the more that I spend time here the more I get to know him, the more vocabulary, so to speak, that I have of his language, the more I can communicate with him and get to know Him. I'm actually walking into the very thing I was created for. And that, and that alone can give us that experience of vibrancy, of aliveness, when we really begin to do what we were made to do, which is to know God and enjoy him with his people. And again, that might sound like the most ordinary Sunday school answer, but there's a reason that for thousands of years, this same message is getting preached over and over again. Because there really is nothing else out there. our hearts are restless till we find them in Him.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Right?

Kelly Needham: Until we get to Christ and know him, we will be restless with everything else because it's really all just too small. It's not that our desires are too big. It's that we're looking in places that are too small.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so true. And I saw, something that set social media on fire last week. A man climbing a tower in Asia, thousands of feet tall, free solo, no ropes, no anything. Just searching for that experience. But that's the kind of experience that God offers us. And not just that's here in this life, but a hope for eternal life and life more abundantly. Thank you so much, Kelly. Kelly and Jimmy Needham, have written the Bible study See for Yourself, and I challenge you to see for yourself. And if you want to hear more about our Healthy Habits series, listen to any Friday show where we started off talking about praying, reading God's word. And as you do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: Opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.