Transcript

Hamilton: Be his ambassador even in this dark moment

>> Joseph Parker: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.

>> Bill Federer: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

>> Joseph Parker: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

>> Bill Federer: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world. God has called you and me to.

>> Joseph Parker: Be his ambassador, even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

G.K. Chesterton wrote a biography of Thomas Aquinas in 1928

>> Bill Federer: And now, the, Hamilton Corner.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, there's a favorite quote that I like, and I remember reading this quote probably 20 years ago, and it just grabbed my attention. G.K. chesterton. Gilbert Keith Chesterton, who was very influential in the life of C.S. lewis, but he wrote a book. I think it was about 1928. So right at 100 years ago. But it was a biography of Thomas Aquinas. Now, Aquinas is important because, we are not Muslims today, at least in part due to the apologetics work of aquinas in the 1200s. But, G.K. chesterton wrote this biography of Thomas Aquinas, and in the foreword, he said this about the need for apologetics and biblical worldview. And keep in mind, this is almost a century ago, but, Chesterton said, as much as we need to win the loss to Christianity, more and more, we need to win the Christians to Christianity. Well, with that quote, and that's, thought provoking, we'll unpack it a bit.

This program deals with biblical worldview, culture, what God's word says about issues

But my name is Alex McFarland. Very, very honored to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton III tonight. Attorney, pastor, broadcaster Abe Hamilton. And, this program deals with biblical worldview, culture, what God's word says about so many issues. And we've got a great show, and it's very special because it is Thanksgiving Eve. Eve, you know, the day before, the day before Thanksgiving. And before we go too much into the content, I want to say in the strongest possible terms how much we thank God for each and every one of you listening. And, we just want to. We want all of you to know that as we sit down at our Thanksgiving table on Thursday and just reflect on how good the Lord is to us. We pray for the listeners of the American Family Radio Network. We thank God for each and every one of you. And together, I really think we make a very powerful team to call our country and beyond back to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. But with me tonight at the beginning of the program is a friend I made the other day, a friend through our colleague, Bill Federer and his Name is Jay Segert and Jay is with the Starting Point Project. And this is a man. The starting point project.com is the website. But Jay talks about the existence of God, the, the Bible, the inerrancy and authority of the Bible and worldviews as the starting point for discussion and belief. And right away I just knew this was, brothers in arms, J. Siegert. So he's with us now and we'll talk about these things.

Jay Segert is the founder of the Starting Point Project

But first of all, Jay Segert of the Starting Point Project, welcome to the American Family Radio Network.

>> Speaker D: It's an honor to be on the program this evening. Alex. and excited about whatever we want to talk about.

>> Alex McFarland: exactly. Well, I, before we go too far into news and headlines and things like that, tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about the Starting Point Project.

>> Speaker D: Sure. Short version. Grew up in a very, very strong Christian household. Not only learned the Bible, but saw it lived, out in the life of my parents, which was awesome. went to public schools through high school, then went to a Christian college for an engineering degree and then I went to a state university for a physics degree. And that's when all my professors were telling me I was wrong about everything I believed. And at that point in my life I knew what I believe, but I did not know why I could not defend the Christian worldview and never really thought about it. I just believe it. So God put it in my heart to start looking into things. So I have been looking into things for 40 years and about 19 years ago felt called into full time ministry. So founded the Starting Point Project. It is all about our starting point. Everyone has to start somewhere. It's impossible to not start somewhere. Christians start with the belief that God exists and the Bible is the word of God. And then we use that starting point to define everything else. What science and logic are, history, ethics, morality, philosophy. All those things are defined by our chosen starting point. Obviously a skeptic would have a different starting point and you can ask them what they've chosen and it leads into some great healthy conversations. So the point is you're always going to interpret the world around you based on what you've already chosen to believe that starting point. So it's not so much about the minuscule details that we can argue. It's about what lens are you using to do your interpretations.

>> Alex McFarland: don't you think the default position of the human mind really is to assume God exists? And let me explain. Jay, I wrote two Books about a decade ago. One called, Answers for Skeptics, and the other was Answers for Atheists. And I interviewed 32 pretty famous atheists, people like Christopher Hitchens and Michael Shermer and David Silverman, and emailed back and forth with Richard Dawkins. And in all of the interviews that I did with atheists, and I would say, you know, was there ever a time when you did believe in God? And out of 32 interviews, really, 30 out of 32 said, no, I did used to believe in God, or I was a Christian, but X happened. And it was almost like emotional pain was the gateway to intellectual skepticism. Do you believe that naturally humans do assume there is God or an ultimate power, and it's maybe the circumstances of life or unresolved questions that cause them to build up a worldview that excludes God?

>> Speaker D: yeah, I'd actually say 100% of the time. Because if we believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, and as Christians, Christians, we do. In Romans 1, it says that God has given so much evidence just in nature that mankind is without excuse, and he's actually put the knowledge of his existence inside every human being. That's the default. You have to go out of your way to reject that. So even those few who might say, no, I never really believed in God, that's really not possible from a biblical worldview. They had to have some inherent knowledge of that. They might not be as familiar with it or remember it as much, but you're starting from that point because that's what scripture tells us. And you have to choose. And it's usually an unfortunate incident that happens that makes them a little bit bitter. Really, really quick, powerful story. I, was speaking over at Oxford in London. There was an evangelist from Northern Ireland. He was witnessing to a nuclear physicist who was an atheist. the nuclear physicist told him. He goes, I don't believe that God exists. The evangelist said, no, you know, he exists, but you hate him, you love your sin, and you fear God's wrath. And the nuclear physicist looked back at him and said, you are the wisest man I've that. You know, he was being honest, he was being transparent, which is really rare, but that's really the root of everything. It's not this lofty academic reason as to why they reject God. they might use that today, but it's really ultimately always a heart issue.

>> Alex McFarland: Wow. You know, I appreciate, how brazen that, Irish evangelist must have been. And also, you know, I've got a friend you may know, Ray Comfort, who's, I think from NewSong Zealand originally. And, and he's pretty forthright like that as well. Because, you know, here's the thing. I, I've told several athe that I, you know, have ongoing dialogue with. And we have seen some atheists come to Christ. We really have. But, but I've said to them, I've said, look, you talk about God more than any preacher I know. You know, you claim to be an atheist, and yet when we get together, you talk about God. And I'm glad. but usually it's haranguing about how angry they are at the God they don't believe exists. But, doesn't all the rhetoric and the diatribes kind of betray what you're saying? That the knowledge of God is in every human heart, every rational thinking, grown up, deep down we know God is real.

>> Speaker D: Right? I mean, if they're atheists. I had a long conversation, three, three and a half hours with the head of the Atheist association and out in California and great conversation, bright guy, nice guy. We were having fun. We were really enjoying the conversation. But I don't have time to go through the whole scenario. But I just basically temporarily assumed he was correct, that there is no God. And then I just showed him how that belief leads to just logical absurdities, including the fact that, that he's just particles. Particles and energy. That's all. There's no soul, no spirit. Well, he's got nothing in him to make decisions. I said, the only thing that makes sense is that you are created in the image of God and He's given you a spirit with which you can make decisions. You're actually using the spirit he gave you to reject him, and he allows that, but he reserved the right for the consequences which the rest of Romans Chapter one discusses. And so basically, it's a logical absurdity to say there is no God, because the only way you could do that is if you're choosing to make that decision. But if there's no God, you are just particles banging together and you can't control that. I even asked him, do you control your particles? He said, no. Well, if he's not controlling them, they're just banging together. So I said, well, in that sense, if you're right, you can't try to convert me because my particles are banging together in such a way that it makes me think God does exist. He has a son named Jesus Christ, and I have a personal relationship with him and I have no control over that. That's how my particles are moving.

>> Alex McFarland: wow. Wow.

Alex McFarland: Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's bring up religion

Well, you know, Thanksgiving is coming up and by the way, I hope you and your family have a wonderful blessed time together. But over the next five, six weeks, Thanksgiving, Christmas, NewSong Year's, invariably people are going to be with relatives, friends, acquaintances, probably the subject of, of religion and I mean Christianity is a relationship, it's not a religion. But what, what tips or advice would you give to the listeners, Jay, to fruitfully bring up J over these next several weeks?

>> Speaker D: Sure. That's a tough situation, especially with family because internal family members are usually the last. People want to listen to you because who are you? You're the son, you're the daughter, you're the mom, you're the dad, your brother, sister, you know, whatever it is. So it does bring an added level of challenge. However, the simplest advice I could possibly give and anyone can do it, and it's not about gaining knowledge, it's about doing two things that you should be able to do. Number one, listen. Listen to things that they're saying. They will bring things up on their own. They proactively brought up some comment about why is there this evil going on? Why is this happening? Why is that going on? Listen to what they're saying and then simply ask follow up questions. Like they say, why did this evil thing happen? Like, well, how, how do you determine if something's evil or not? What, you know, what standard are you using? You just ask very sincerely and innocently and then say, so you don't think anything bad should ever happen? No. Well then you think we should be controlled in our actions. So we don't even have the ability to do something that someone else might think is wrong. And you ask enough questions, they'll back themselves into a corner, realizing they can actually back the statements they made. You're not saying they're a bad person, you're not even saying they're wrong. You're just trying to better understand where they're coming from. And the Holy Spirit will give you opportunities to then offer a counter view that does make sense of the world in which we live. Why are we thankful? What are we thankful for if there's no God? We're thankful for particles banging together in the right way. So you got to pray about it. You got to be gracious and gentle. But the Holy Spirit will give you the words to say. If you start out by simply listening to claims that are being made and ask follow up questions.

>> Alex McFarland: Didn't Darwin, Charles Darwin even say essentially of his theory and its conclusions, Didn't Darwin Ask himself, why should I trust convictions in the mind of a monkey?

>> Speaker D: Yeah. He couldn't help but wrestle with questions like that. But he didn't want to keep going that direction. It would have led him back to Christ. But again, he had a rough, time with, losing a daughter at an early age and other things that made him kind of bitter towards God. So he wanted to write, got off. but he wrestled with that. He said the, the sight of a peacock's tail made him sick. Like why? It's beautiful. That's why. Because it's beautiful. It shouldn't be beautiful if there's no God. Particles banging together. Why is it beautiful? He recognized beauty, but he couldn't account for it with his own worldview.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, I've talked about this at length and by the way, folks, if you're just tuning in, Alex McFarland here along with our very special guest Jay Siegert of the Starting Point Project. you know, after the Protestant Reformation, which came in a number of European cities, not the least of which was Wittenberg, Germany, but the very same Germany that gave us Luther and the Reformation 200 years later, there was a man named Friedrich Schleiermacher who was really, they call him the father of German liberalism. And Schleiermacher is just trashing of the Bible and critique of the Bible shook up Charles Darwin as well, you know. So it was theological liberalism. it's called higher criticism. We'll come back to that.

Alex McFarland: How tragic it is for believers that don't read Bible

But Jay, before we take this, brief break, give us your website if you would please, sir.

>> Speaker D: Church the starting point project.com Lots of mostly free resources. A few things for sale, but mostly free resources. Plus we do Grand Canyon tours and podcasts and articles and videos.

>> Alex McFarland: Wow, Alex McFarland here. You know, apologetics is good, clean fun and you can become a defender of the faith, probably more fruitfully than you might imagine. But we'll continue this and more. Plus, Bill Federer talking about the origins of Thanksgiving on this edition of the Hamilton Corner American Family Radio. Stay tuned.

>> Bill Federer: A, discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.

>> Joseph Parker: How tragic it is for believers that don't get around to reading the Bible. In other words, they don't get around to spending time with Jesus, listening to his counsel, his wisdom, his grace, allowing him to touch their lives with his word. Hebrews, chapter 4, verse 12. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Then Ephesians 6, 17, 18. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication. For all saints, a kingdom warrior is a disciple of Christ who skillfully puts the word of God, which is the sword of the Spirit, to work every.

>> Speaker D: Day.

>> Bill Federer: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton corner on American Family Radio.

>> Alex McFarland: Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift. That's Second Corinthians. And welcome back to the program.

Jay Segert: Atheism is a learned response to circumstances, pain

Alex McFarland here. You know, it's a special night because it were just a couple of days away from Thanksgiving. We're talking with Jay Segert of the Starting Point Project. Before the break, we were talking about apologetics. And Jay, I really do agree with you that, you know, theism is the, is the default position of the human heart. That really atheism is, is kind of a learned response to circumstances, pain. And if you would elaborate on that, that, people, ordinarily or you know, instinctively, they, they do assume God. But then for whatever reason, they come to a point where they reject that, that knowledge. Don't they.

>> Speaker D: Declare that again, God has instilled the knowledge of himself inside every human being. But human nature doesn't like the guilt that might come along because everyone wants to do things their own way. Adam and Eve had perfect fellowship with God in the garden, but they think, thought they had a better idea that did not go well and nothing's changed. Today we, we do that as humans. We kind of have our own ideas, but there's a guilt association. So you either have to live with the guilt or dismiss God and his standards. So, atheism does it all together. Religion just makes up your own standards and you just always magically qualify under these standards you've made up. So you feel pretty good about yourself. And that's what religion is all about. Whereas Christianity is truly a relationship with Jesus Christ. So interesting, there are some psychologists a few years ago who were frustrated because they saw young children playing with toys and they, the children recognized that their toys were, were designed, they were made. And then they look at like a hummingbird and think, well, that was created and designed too, because that's even more, you know, complex than the toys they had. And these psychologists were so frustrated, they said we have to teach these kids how to think counterintuitively, meaning, we know you think that the Hummingbird was designed. But no, that's just an accident of nature. Even though maybe your toys were created and designed, nature around you isn't, but it's instilled in them. God has put it there and you have to go out of your way to get rid of it.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. Have you ever seen the Regarding a designer. Design is a product of a designer. have you ever seen any presentations, about woodpeckers? And you know, their, their tongue retracts up in the skull much like a, tape measure, you know, a spring loaded tape measure. And I saw this, this incredible presentation by a colleague, Frank, Figueroa, on how tape measures. They're like 24 steps in the, in the assembly of a tape measure. I mean, if you've ever tried to put a tape measure back in the case, you know, it takes about 10 sets of hands to try to do that. And yet the, the, the woodpecker, which is just one bird of the avian family, the, the tongue rolls up in its head. You know, the, the brain has all this cushioning. So after hundreds of beats through the bark of a tree, the brain is not damaged. The, then the tongue, which has these reverse barbs much like a fish hook, the tongue can go into the tree bark, retrieve a grub. There is a gland that secretes a, glue on the end of the tongue holds the bug. The tongue retracts like a tape measure, takes the bug to the mouth of the woodpecker. But because even a woodpecker doesn't need a stomach full of glue, there's a gland at the top of the mouth that secretes an enzyme that dissolves the glue. I mean, it's just the most fascinating, highly complex system, and yet that's just one creature among the millions that exist in creation. it's just impossible to believe that this just all came about randomly.

>> Speaker D: Yeah, it is, unless you just don't want it to be true. I mean, the woodpecker is fascinating. You, you know, it's hitting that tree like a submachine gun, rapid fire. And it has to close its eyes each time too, because if it doesn't, its eyes will pop right out of its head. That's how much force it's hitting the tree with much more force than the astronauts experienced when they went to the moon. I, won't get into all those details, but that, and then not only, if it didn't dissolve the glue and would have glue in its stomach, it would have its tongue in its stomach. Choked to death. And there aren't intermediate forms along the way to develop. You need the whole system there to begin with. Sometimes when I give a talk on DNA, which won't go into now, it is one of the most complex things that I know of in the way that I present it to. I've never in years, never had one skeptic ever even comment on what I just presented. But then they'll tell me there's no evidence for creation. I say, okay, I got a question for you. If that doesn't qualify as evidence of design, give me an example of something that would. If you saw, ah, A, B or C, and they've never, ever come up with even close to an example. They just say the evidence doesn't exist, but I don't know what it would look like. And they can't even imagine that. You know, again, we present things like the hummingbird and DNA and all that, that just screams design. But these people are spiritually blinded and don't want it to be true.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, listen, this is the first of what I hope will be many conversations. Jay Seegert, I appreciate the work you're doing. Kind of give us a homework assignment to begin to ramp up on apologetics, for the person listening who is, you know, interested and maybe kind of a, beginner. What sort of homework would you give us, Jay?

>> Speaker D: Well, there's two questions that every Christian needs to be able to answer very simply and succinctly. They're the two most basic questions a skeptic or an atheist could ask. I would ask, if I was an atheist, how do you know God exists? I mean, no, not just like, wow, the world is beautiful. No, how do you know God exists? And how do you know the Bible is the inspired word of God? When we fumble with those, it's a huge red flag. And if I was a skeptic, I wouldn't listen to anything else you had to say. So realize you need to be able to have a short, succinct answer for that in more detail for a longer conversation. And there's a lot of great resources. I've got 145 plus podcasts out there, and I go through those questions amongst many others. You know, the origin of the universe, existence of God, evidence for the inspiration of the Bible, creation versus evolution, pro life, on and on and on. So those two questions, start with that and make sure you've got those things down.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, Jay, you're doing a great work and you're, you're quite an inspiration and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. I hope you and your family have just a blessed Thanksgiving. And let's talk again soon.

>> Speaker D: Sure. Appreciate the opportunity to be on the program again.

>> Alex McFarland: the starting point. Checked dot com. Alex McFarland here, the American Family Radio Network.

Alex Bishop introduces Bill Federer, longtime friend and colleague

I want to queue up another just longtime friend, and it's William, J. Bill Federer of the American Minute. I've just been a huge fan of Bill Federer for so many years. And when I was a youth pastor, every year my graduating seniors that were going off to college, I would get them. I would go down to the Christian bookstore in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I would buy them Bill Federer's book, the Encyclopedia of God and Country Quotations. And never dreamed I'd get to meet the author of that compendium. But his name is Bill Federer. And I have to tell you, after years of being friends with Bill, colleagues, collaborators, this guy is everything I hoped he would be and 10 times more. He's gifted, he's godly, he's brilliant, and he's with us now. Happy, early Thanksgiving, my friend. Bill Federer.

>> Bill Federer: Well, Alex, great to be with you.

>> Alex McFarland: It's good to be with you. I must ask, where are you? Are you on the road ministering? on the road, speaking. What's up with Bill Federer, my friend?

>> Bill Federer: Ah, yeah, well, I'm back. I will be in Plymouth, Massachusetts this weekend, with Pastor Neil Eaton. NewSong Hope Chapel. He had one of, it's about 2,000 member church. It doubled in size after Charlie Kirk's death. Just amazing. And he, has an ancestor that was on the Mayflower and just a great light in that area of the world. and then this last weekend I was out in Orange, California, and the day before that I was in Fort Lauderdale speaking for Jerry Newcombe at NewSong, Life Presbyterian. But I saw you. Was that Jay Segert that you had on before me?

>> Alex McFarland: That was Jay Segert. And that friendship, I'm indebted to you for. I, I met him completely through you, my friend. So thank you for that introduction.

>> Bill Federer: Yeah, well, Jay is tremendous. He had my son and I go with him on a tour of the Grand Canyon. And boy, when he gave it from a creation point of view, it all made sense. It's like, wow, this is brilliant.

>> Alex McFarland: So, yeah, I've done that tour. Well, not with Jay, but, with, folks from Answers in Genesis. I had the great privilege of spending 11 nights in the Grand Canyon, 10 years ago. And it really is exhibit A for the proof of the global flood, isn't it?

>> Bill Federer: Yeah. You know, he looked, and this is not on the topic of the pilgrims, but he said, now, see all those lines of strata across the big, you know, cavern and, the canyon? And he says if. If any one of those lines had been exposed to the. To the elements for millions of years, it would have been eroded. Like, the very top layer that you see goes up and down and up and down and up and down. He says the fact that every one of those lines is so smooth means that it got laid down with the water swishing back and forth over a short period of time. It's like, oh, that makes sense.

>> Alex McFarland: Rapid burial, Rapid barrel.

Alex McFarland talks with Bill Federer about Thanksgiving and Christianity

Well, I want to change gears. And, folks, just tuning in, Alex McFarland here, our very special guest, Bill Federer. And let's talk a little bit about Thanksgiving, because this. This is very special. growing up, what. What. At what age Bill did Thanksgiving and all of the implications and the. The history behind it. When did it kind of click for you, Bill? And you understood it all?

>> Bill Federer: Oh, well, we loved it. my grandparents, my. My granddad was a builder in St. Louis. He built like, 30 subdivisions and had this massive house right across from Crondelet Park. And so all the cousins and everybody would come and we would just have a great big, event there. And, so it was fond memories. And then, But, But anyway, we, knew it was family time and sort of a little bit about the pilgrims. And, But as I got older, I tell people when I really became a Christian as an adult, it was like turning the corner on a cornfield and you see the rows line up. It's like all of a sudden the same history that before seems sort of random now. It's. God had a plan, a providential plan for freedom to spread so that people could worship God freely. God loves you, and he wants you to love him back. Before love, to be love, it must be voluntary.

>> Speaker D: Right?

>> Bill Federer: And so, this. This movement toward this, and then also that you could be all that God has you to be instead of what some king or what some government demands. You can pursue your dreams and. And hopefully have some of, his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen.

William Tyall: The Reformation started largely so Henry VIII could divorce Catherine

So what are some things about Thanksgiving that you would like people to know that maybe Americans of 2025 have not known?

>> Speaker D: What.

>> Alex McFarland: What's some of the backstory that we really ought to know about? Bill?

>> Bill Federer: Yeah, I put together a book. It's called the treacherous world of the 16th century and how the pilgrims escaped it. So I go through what is going on in the 1500s before the pilgrims, and. And you have the Muslims conquering North Africa and the Muslims conquering Syria, and the Muslim conquering Turkey. It used to be the Byzantine Christian Empire conquering Constantinople, which caused Columbus to look for a sea route to India and China. And they're in surrounding Vienna, Austria. And so all these scholars are fleeing the Muslim invasion west with their Greek NewSong Testaments. And it lays the foundation for the Reformation. And so Martin Luther starts the Reformation, and quickly you have one denomination per country in Europe, right? So it used to be all Catholic, and now England is Anglican, Scotland is Presbyterian, Holland is Dutch reform. Switzerland is Calvinist. Northern Germany and Sweden are Lutheran. Italy, Spain, France, Austria, Poland stayed Catholic. Greece was Greek Orthodox, Russia was Russian Orthodox. It was one denomination per country. And if you didn't believe the way your king did, you were persecuted, you fled. And mass migration of people shifting around Europe for conscience sake. And so you have, Catherine de Medici, Queen of France, year is 1572. She does not like the fact that 10% of France is now Protestant Huguenot. So she has a wedding with her daughter Margaret and the main Huguenot leader, Henry of Navarre, in Paris. And a couple days after the wedding, they're all celebrating. She hasn't pulled chains across the street so the carriages can't go out of town. Sends her soldiers house to house. They kill 30,000 of these Huguenot leaders, throws their body in the Seine River. same thing. In 1572, the Spanish control the Netherlands, and King Philip of Spain sends the Iron Duke of alba. He kills 10,000 Dutch Reformed in Antwerp, Belgium. It is a serious thing not to believe the way your king does. So now we go to England. England has Henry viii. He was originally Catholic, married, to Catherine of Aragon, the daughter of the King of Spain. After 18 years, no son, Henry decides to divorce her. The Pope won't recognize the divorce, so Henry decides to make himself his own pope, Starts the Church of England, puts himself on as the head, goes on to have six wives.

>> Alex McFarland: So I gotta ask this, Bill, forgive me. So was the Church of England really started largely so Henry VIII could divorce his wife Catherine?

>> Bill Federer: Yes, yes, 100%. And sir.

>> Speaker D: Wow.

>> Alex McFarland: I'm just trying to get my mind around that. That's pretty wild.

>> Bill Federer: Yeah.

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Bill Federer: Sir Thomas Moore was his chancellor, who was Catholic and he really liked him, but he wanted to stay Catholic and he didn't want to flip and Give his approval. And so, you know, there's a whole movie about it. And, you know, Henry VIII says, you know, oh, you know, why don't you flip it? You know, Sir Thomas More. And. And he says, no. He says, well, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to kill you. And then they, like, read the sentence. He'll have it be drawn and quartered and his intestines drug out. And then they said, well, we'll just be really nice. We'll just behead you.

>> Alex McFarland: You.

>> Bill Federer: It's like, oh, thanks a lot, you.

>> Alex McFarland: Know, and so very kind of you.

>> Bill Federer: And so Henry viii, had this hierarchical church with the archbishop of Canterbury underneath him, and then the deaneries and vicars and curates and rectors and priests. Well, his, advisors suggested if he's serious about breaking from Rome, he needs to stop using the Latin Bible. M. and he said, the German princes at Martin Luther's German Bible, that helped them to break away. You need to get yourself an English Bible. Well, he just had William Tyndall killed a few earlier, for translation.

>> Alex McFarland: One of the best translators on the planet.

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Bill Federer: And so Henry was still Catholic at that time, and so he had William Tindal killed. But now that he wants to break away from the Catholic church, he needs an. An English Bible. And so they take Tindall's work. And by the way, Tyndall's last words were, lord, open the king of England's eyes. So they take Tyndall's work, polish it up. They call it the Great Bible. Henry likes it, orders a copy, put in every church in England. England. And this is the first Bible called the Great Bible that the common people in England can read for themselves. And he does.

>> Alex McFarland: Bill, forgive me. I beg your forgiveness. We've got to take a break. Hold that thought, folks. You don't want to miss the riveting story of how the Bible got put into English, built very, very quickly. What's your website? Americanminute.com Americanminute.com Alex McFarland here with Bill Federer. Stay tuned to the American Family Radio Network, where back after this brief break, more about the history of thanksgiving and what we can do to preserve it in the 21st century.

Thoughts of the child you were carrying keep pouring over in your mind

>> Jeff Chamblee: Thoughts of the child you were carrying keep pouring over in your mind.

>> Speaker D: A. Ah.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Deep, unrelenting sadness overshadows your days. And you wonder if you will ever feel whole again. There is hope and healing from a reproductive of loss. Call The International Helpline, 866-482-LIFE. And talk with someone who has been where you are. Your call is confidential and we will help you find healing. 866482 life.

>> Bill Federer: what is the most important truth that you'll ever hear? Here's Pastor Jeff Schreve.

>> Joseph Parker: What is the message of the cross of Jesus Christ?

>> Bill Federer: Christ. The cross of Jesus Christ just screams.

>> Alex McFarland: Out I love you.

>> Bill Federer: Discover the power that is available to you through the cross of Christ. Join Pastor Jeff Schreve on From his heart each weeknight at 6 Central here on American Family Radio.

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>> Bill Federer: The Hamilton Corner podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.

>> Alex McFarland: Alex McFarland here wishing all of you just a wonderful blessed Thanksgiving.

Bill Federer talks about how the Bible was put into English

And we're getting a very, very beneficial history lesson from our beloved colleague and friend Bill Federer. Bill, before the break, you were talking about how the Bible was put into English. Henry VIII needed, an English Bible. William Tyndale, a, fantastic translator, was executed, sadly. But so they took his work and were you saying they were. They created what is called the Great Bible. Was that where we were?

>> Bill Federer: Yeah, yeah. Matthew Coverdale. And then the great Bible. And which is 80% of Tyndale's work. And they show it to King Henry and he says, I like it. Put it in every church in England. And he dusts his hands, he goes, that's it. We broke them from Rome. We got it. We got our own English Bible. But something unexpected happened and people began to read it. And people wanted to purify the Church of England. And the king didn't like being purified, so he persecuted them and canceled them. And they lost their jobs, these Puritans. And then there's another group that said, we're just going to separate ourselves. We're going to meet in secret. And they call themselves Baptists, we call them Pilgrims. And so they, would, have their little home, the William Brewster's home. It's a, it's a manor. It's a really nice big home in Scrooby, England. And they would meet and they would get raided and put in jail, and then they would get out and put in jail. And one group of these pilgrim separatists sell their property by passage on a ship. But before the ship takes off, the captain robs them, turns them over, the police are put in jail. And then another group of pilgrim separatists arrange for a Dutch ship to sail up the coast. And they would be waiting in rowboats and row out there and sail away. But the pilgrims show up a day early and it's wavy and the women and children want to wait on shore. And the ship shows up, the men are stowing the stuff, and somebody snitches. The police come over the hill and capture the women and children. And the Dutch captain sails away with the men. You can just watch these women and children watching that ship getting smaller and smaller and disappearing over the horizon. For two years they pass those women and children from one jail to another. Finally, the judge said, you didn't do anything wrong. Go home. They go, duh, we sold their homes. So just to get them out of their hair, they sent them over to Holland and they finally found their husbands. They settled in Leiden, Holland, which, interestingly enough, when Ferdinand and Izabella drove the Jews out of Spain, many of them went to Leiden, Holland. And so the Pilgrims began identifying with the Jews, saying, you left the pharaoh, we left the King of England. You crossed the Red Sea, we crossed the English Channel, you found your promised land, we're looking for ours. And, so they're there for 12 years. Their kids are assimilating and becoming Dutch, and they realize they're going to be a one generation movement. Spain threatens to attack again. It's an 80 year war of independence for the Netherlands to break away from Spain. So the pilgrims think of going to Guyana, South America. And, because they heard of the perpetual spring. But then they remembered in 1565, a bunch of the French Protestant Huguenots tried to settle in Florida around Jacksonville. And, and the Spanish found out about it and butchered 300 of the men and sold the women and children and took them away. So the pilgrim said, we don't want to go anywhere near where Spain controls. and then the Pilgrims decide on Jamestown, and they get blown off course in a storm. It's a good thing they didn't make it to Jamestown because 4,000 people died in Jamestown from 1607 to 1624. They had the starving time one winter they start off with 500, they end the winter with 50. And then in 1622 they had an Indian massacre that wiped out a quarter of the population of Virginia. So if the pilgrims had landed there, they probably would have gotten killed. But in providentially they get blown off course to Massachusetts. They land and they have a problem. There's no king appointed person in their group. There's 102 of them. Nobody's been picked by the king. They don't want to just get off the boat and be lawless. And so they do something unique. They take their little covenant church group and they make it their civil government. it's called the Mayflower Compact. We in the presence of God, covenant ourselves into a civil body politic, a church group becoming a political group. Wow. And so this is a polarity change in the flow of power. Set a top down rule by kings and Caesars and pharaohs and sultans and maharajas and Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar and, and it's real bottom up by we just 102 of us, we're just going to agree on it. And they got their idea from the Bible. What part of the Bible? That first 400 years out of Egypt before Israel got a king. It's called the Hebrew Republic. Around 1400 BC to a thousand BC you have millions of Israelites and no king. And it works because everybody's taught the law and everybody's personally accountable to God to follow the law.

>> Speaker D: Yes.

>> Bill Federer: Right. It's called the Hebrew Republic. And the self government system can only work with the God of the Bible. It can't work.

>> Speaker D: Amen for long.

>> Bill Federer: In a Greek democracy with a goddess of Aphrodite that has temple prostitutes, there's no concept of a just God. No, it worked in Israel. And now God knew they would sin. So once a year they had the day of atonement and everybody's sins are forgiven. And they start the new year off with a clean slate. Obviously that's foreshadowing Jesus. Well the system worked in ancient Israel for four centuries until the priest went woke, the Levites went rainbow church. They're like, oh, you can sin. Yeah. Here's Eli, the high priest. His own sons are sleeping with women in the tent where the ark of the coven is. It turns into chaos.

Bill Bennett: We have a covenant form of government in America that dates back to pilgrims

Every man does what's right in their own eyes. They go to Samuel the prophet and they Say, this isn't working anymore. We want to be like the other countries. We want a king. And Samuel cries and the Lord says, they didn't reject you, they rejected me. Why is this story important? Kings of Europe look to the Bible for their authority. They look to the King Saul and after. And the Pilgrims and Puritans look to the Bible for their authority, but they look to the before King Saul period, the Hebrew Republic. So that's why they taught Hebrew at Yale and Harvard. And so after the Pilgrims, you have the great Puritan migration. 20,000 Puritans come across. And you had pastors and churches founding cities. So you had a pastor Thomas Hooker and his Congregational Church founded the city of Hartford, Connecticut. And the pastor Roger Williams and the first Baptist Church in America founded the city of Providence, Rhode Island. Right. Churches founding cities. Yeah, everybody's involved in church. But anyway, the Oz Guinness said covenantal ideas in England were the lost cause, but they became the winning cause in NewSong England. Covenant shaped constitutionalism. The American Constitution is a nationalized, secularized form of covenant. Covenant lies behind constitution. And the word federal is Latin for covenant. We have a covenant form of government in America that can be traced back to the pilgrims, that can be traced back to the Bible that first 400 years before Israel got a king.

>> Alex McFarland: Bill, I gotta ask you this. Does it weary you to endlessly in the American media today hear talk about our democracy this, our democracy that, democracy, democracy, democracy. When we're not a democracy, we're a represent a Judeo Christian representative republic. Does that point ever just stick in your crawl?

>> Bill Federer: Yeah, yeah, it is confusing now. it was basically Harry S. Truman that popularized the term democracy as a general reference to a popular government where the population is involved in ruling themselves. His inaugural address, 1949, a half a dozen times Harry S. Truman says democracy. We believe in freedom and communism doesn't. And we believe in, you know, opportunity and communism doesn't. So he's the one that, that put in print the idea, of democracy having this general definition but as a functioning form of government. It only worked on a small scale like Athens, a city state where every citizen is at every meeting every day to talk about every issue. And because it's the crowd, it can get swept up with emotion. And Socrates talked about, an admiral who fought a naval battle and won, but in a storm didn't rescue all the sailors, gets back to Athens and the people get so whipped up in a frenzy they kill him. And then afterwards they feel bad, but it's too late. He's dead. And so Socrates says this democracy is mobocracy. And, and so that's where Plato comes along and he says, you know, the best form of government is a top down, you know, philosopher, king, tyrant and his arms and chest of silver. And so Plato's the first one that basically talked about socialism. By the way, the Pilgrims had no money. They had to borrow from investors in England who write up, wrote up bylaws that said everything would be owned in common for seven years. Everything got by cooking, trucking and trade would go into ye common stock and everybody's provisions would come out of e common stock. And, and William Bradford said they tried it and almost starved to death. He said the failure of that experiment of communal service which was tried for several years by good and honest men proves the emptiness of the theory of Plato applauded by some of latter times. So Plato was theoretical. Sir Thomas Moore's Utopia, island of Utopia was theoretical. It's all theoretical. But the Pilgrims are the first ones that are actually trying to live out everybody owning everything in common. Yeah. He said the young man who was most able and fit for service objected to being forced to spend his time working for other men's wives and children without any recompense. The strong man, had no more share of food, clothes, etc than the weaker one who could not do a quarter of the work. The aged men considered it an indignity and disrespect to be ranked in labor with the younger. And as for men's wives who were obliged to do service for other men, such as cooking, washing their clothes, etc. They considered it a kind of slavery. And he says, let none argue that this is due to human failing rather than to this communistic plan of life in itself. And he goes that after much discussion it was decided that every family would be assigned a parcel of land. This made all very hands more industrious. Much more corn was planted. The women now went willingly into the field and took their little ones with them to plant corn well before they would allege weakness. And to have compelled them would have been thought great oppression. So here the Pilgrims tried everybody owning everything in common. Founder demotivated everybody. But you get your own plot of land and you get what comes out of it. Hey kid, we're going to plant today, you know.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah, exactly.

>> Bill Federer: And then it took 40, 40 years to pay off their debt to those investors. They did it with beaver skins. Why did it take so long? Well, one time was a Muslim pirate ship in 1625 captures one of the Pilgrim ships packed with 800 pounds of beaver skins, captures it in the English Channel, takes the crew to Morocco and sells them into slavery. The sultan in Morocco, Muley ismail, had over 25,000 Europeans that he had captured and made slaves build him a palace at Mechanez. And he had 500 wives that bore him a record 10, 42 children. This is the sultan in Morocco at the same time. And then, just I have to, for a minute or two, say Squanto. So pilgrims were religious, not everybody else was. And you had bad people luring Indians on the boat for trade, and then say, hey, you want to see below deck? And they would lock him below deck, take him to Malaga, Spain, sell him into slavery. That's what happened to Squanto. Some Franciscan friars, got custody of him, gave him his freedom. He makes his way back to England, works there for several years, learns the language, works for the Newfoundland Company. and then he finally is dropped off on the coast of America in June of 1620, only to find his whole tribe was dead. William Bradford said a French ship had shipwrecked there a couple years earlier. And evidently one of them must have had a sort survivor, had an illness, wiped out the tribe. Had Squanto not been kidnapped, he probably would have died, too. But nevertheless, he comes back, everybody's dead, lives with the neighboring Wampanoag tribe. And so now it's the spring of 1621.

>> Alex McFarland: Forgive me. The first Thanksgiving where they celebrated with like, 90 Native Americans. Was that the Wampag Noeg, if I'm.

>> Bill Federer: I'm not pronouncing it Corp. Yeah, Chief Massasoit. But it was Squanto that was their interpreter, so they were able to be friends with the Indians. So the first Thanksgiving, 90 Indians show up, only 52 pilgrims, right?

Alex McFarland: Bill Federer recommends several great books for Thanksgiving

And get this, only four adult women. Four adult women cooking for 142 people, right? And now they did have 24 men and 24 teenagers and young people. But, but.

>> Alex McFarland: So that. That was the classic first Thanksgiving that we've probably all read about in school, right?

>> Bill Federer: Yeah. Yeah. And, now I have to mention, so Chief Master Soy gets sick, and the pilgrim, Edward Winslow, nurses him back to health. and it ends up with a 50 year peace as a result. One, of the fine print is if you doctor a chief and he dies, you die. So it was sort of risky there. now, I have to throw in Squanto. dies. William Bradford says they were exploring, they were caught in a boat in freezing rain, they put into Manamoyuk Bay, and Squanto fell ill of Indian fever. and then he begged the governor to pray for him that he might go to the Englishman's God in heaven. So here he is, the Englishman are the Pilgrims. And he's seeing their faith firsthand for several years. And he's like, you guys are real and you have a relationship with. I want. I won't go to your God. I believe William Bradford led him in the prayer of salvation.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bill Federer: But, but anyway, all this is in a book. It's called the Treacherous world of the 16th century. How the Pilgrims Escaped It. And my website's americanminute. Ah.com, if anybody's interested.

>> Alex McFarland: And folks, I want to say. And by the way, Alex McFarland here, along with our very special guest, Bill Federer. my wife and I have a shelf full of Bill Federer books and we love, Miracles in American History and From Change to Chains and so many more. Give. What are the titles? We've only got about a minute perhaps, Bill, but maybe your top three or four best sellers that you recommend. And folks, I cannot emphasize enough how these books will help you and inspire you. What are your top three or four sellers, Bill?

>> Bill Federer: Well, the Miracles in American History is one. We have two volumes of that Times in Our Country's Past. Revolution, war of 1812, civil war, Barbary, pirate war, cholera epidemic, 18, 1849. Where there's a crisis, they pray and have courage and things turn around. Another is the, book on socialism, the real history from Plato to the present and how it's a bait and switch for dictatorship. Another is a book on Islam. It's called what Every American Needs to Know about the Quran. A History of Islam in the United States. It goes through the 1400 year history. How Muhammad started off as a religious leader, then he became a political leader, then he became a military leader. Muhammad fought in 66 battles and raids, killing 3,000 people.

>> Alex McFarland: Your website. One more time, Bill. Your website.

>> Bill Federer: It's americanminute.com folks.

>> Alex McFarland: We're almost out of time. Bill Federer, thank you. Thanks to all of you for listening. Happy Thanksgiving. May God bless you. Tell somebody about afr, but tell everybody about Jesus.

>> Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.