Transcript

Hamilton: God has called us to be ambassadors even in this dark moment

>> Bert Harper: Darkness is not an affirmative force.

>> Alex McFarland: It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light. This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio. It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world. God has called you and me to be his ambassadors even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

Alex McFarland: Hamilton Corner focuses on spiritual warfare and culture war

And now, the Hamilton Corner. A royal priesthood, a holy nation, a, peculiar people, that you should show forth the praises of him who called you out of darkness and into his marvelous light. Well, with that verse, which is 1st Peter 2. 9, I welcome you to this edition of the Hamilton Corner. Alex McFarland here. And folks, we have got a really, really special show today. I've got the privilege of sitting in for attorney pastor broadcaster Abe Hamilton iii, traveling right now. And so I'm sitting in tonight and we've got a great show. We're going to bring in in just a moment, Bert Harper, my co host on Exploring the Word, also my co author of our brand new book, our third book we've done together on Bible prophecy. We'll tell you about that in a moment later on in the show as well, author, scholar, documentary filmmaker, MD Perkins, a major part of the American Family Studios and ministry. And we're going to talk about the culture war and really you and I, a role. As the old song says, onward, Christian soldiers. you might not especially like the idea of spiritual warfare or the nomenclature of being, you know, a soldier of the cross, but we really are. And this verse one, Peter 2:9, that we're a chosen generation, a holy nation, that we are called to show forth the praises of the One who called us from out of darkness and into his marvelous light. Jesus. But let me go back to 1st Peter 2:8, because it says Jesus is a stone of stumbling, a rock of offense to those which stumble at the word, being disobedient. Think about this folks, to come out bold for Jesus to say, you know, I believe what the word of God says. And culture may go where culture goes, but the word of God is forever. You might think that's a little bit, hard shell these days or something like that. But understand that from time immemorial, Jesus Christ, the holy Son of God, our accountability to the Lord, people have had a problem with Jesus and truth forever. And yet we are called to be faithful to Christ and to present, explain, defend the truth, present, explain, and if need be, defend the truth. And that's something that we must do, I would say, more than ever.

Bert Harper: Thank you for having me on Hamilton Corner

Well, with me in the studio is Bert Harper. For, I don't know, at least 14, 15 years, you and I have worked together on another AFR show, exploring the Word. And I, was just in a meeting here at afr, Burt, and I Give God the Glory, and I was told that. But, as has been the case for some years, Exploring the Word is among the most popular shows in the broadcast day. I give God the glory, and I thank you. And I want to talk about a lot of things, but, everybody knows you. But thanks for being with us on this edition of the Hamilton Corner.

>> Bert Harper: Well, thank you for having me.

>> Md Perkins: It's good to be here.

>> Bert Harper: And listen, driving home with Abe is one thing I hear about a lot. I'll go somewhere. And they said I get off at 5 and go out and get in my car. And on my way home, I'm listening to the Hamilton Corner. So it's good to be on it with you.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it's an honor. You know, Jeff McIntosh, the engineer, is very gracious. A lot of times when Abe is, out of the office, Jeff will call me. And Jeff, McIntosh and I have done a lot of radio together, and people everywhere I travel say it means a lot to them. And, same with Exploring the Word.

Bert Harper was a pastor for 28 years before becoming a radio host

And I wanted to talk, to you a little bit prior to your, season as a radio host. You pastored for quite a number of years. And how long were you at West Jackson?

>> Bert Harper: At West Jackson street here in Tupelo, I was pastor 28 years. I was a staff member two years. So 30 years at one.

>> Alex McFarland: One church, when you were a pastor, and I hear everywhere I meet people around Tupelo, everybody knows Bert and Jan Harper, but the idea that the church was a voice of righteousness and that part of the pulpit ministry of any pastor is yes to, you know, as Vance Haven says, comfort the afflicted. but we're also to afflict the comfortable, and we're to call people to take a stand for righteousness. Was that viewed as part of the calling when you were coming up, Bert?

>> Bert Harper: I didn't know there's anything else to do. I, was taught to preach through the word expositorily, at least textually, in my school. And you had those that were topical and those that were expository. Our professor taught us it's a little bit different. Expository seems to go over each word in each sentence very carefully. Textually, you do that, but you do it with an outline, in a section rather than necessarily verse by verse. And if you do that, you're just going to absolutely get on the issues of the day. Eventually you have to per. I would have had to purposefully avoid them, not to speak to the issues. And I think that's what a lot of people do. so I was just preaching. I didn't know what I was doing as politically correct or incorrect. staying in the word of God. If you'll stay in the word of God, you're going to do it.

>> Alex McFarland: Bert, I think about the big issues of our time. And as long as I've been a Christian, I became a believer in the late 80s. As long as I've been a Christian, I've heard, the culture war would include standing for life and against abortion, standing for true marriage and against, gay marriage, standing for parents rights and not viewing children as the property of the state, standing that Jesus is the one and only savior. We do not worship the same God as Islam.

>> Bert Harper: Right.

>> Alex McFarland: but even things like patriotism, Bert, do you think if the pastors of America 50 years ago had really used their pulpit to, challenge people, how you live, how you vote, would America look different today? If, the pastors had really issued a clarion call that didn't happen 50 years ago?

>> Bert Harper: I believe it would have made a big difference because, Don Wildmon, our founder, did that. And it has made a difference. I agree with someone said, if you look at the Bible, you see us going off of a cliff sooner or later, you know, but you want to do it not speedily, not going 100 miles an hour at least. So if the preachers would have preached, I think those issues, those issues were not relevant. Life was now in the 60s and 70s, you know, so called homosexual marriage, that's. That wasn't even thought of or as anything. Pornography was a big deal. And that got Dr. Wyoming. That was really the one of the biggest deals. 7 11, selling pornography on a shelf where children could look at it, that was a driving force. What was on television was a driving force. So what's happened along the way? When one of those areas, pornography, when that issue of whatever it might be, you lower the standard. It brings in the possibility of other things because it's like water. It will seek its lowest level and sin will seek its lowest level. And so you see that dyke, you know, we had, you know, trying to put our fingers in the dike to keep from being flooded and but you had great preachers, okay? Adrian Rogers, man, Charles Stanley. They were preaching and they were preaching righteousness. You already mentioned D. James Kennedy.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah.

>> Bert Harper: And, I heard a sermon about the faith of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. And, that was when I was young. And so some of the pulpits, and they were the powerful pulpits. But, listen, sin is always going to be with us, but we need to take a stand. You remember what it say, Be faithful whether you are successful or not. So that was also be true. In the pulpit, you preach truth whether people want to hear it or not.

>> Alex McFarland: You mentioned Dr. Don Wildmon.

For those that are praying for this ministry and supporting, we thank you

And with that, I want to bring in, another voice to the conversation. And by the way, folks, if you are just tuning in, this is. No, it's not exploring the Word, it's the Hamilton corner.

>> Bert Harper: It's hard to not do it when I'm beside you.

>> Alex McFarland: We are just a day after Sharathon and we don't completely know all the numbers, but for those that have been praying for this ministry and supporting, we thank you. I'm sure we'll be praising God and letting you know about Sharathon this, week. But, you know, your support enables us to do things like we're doing. And somebody that God is using in a great way is authority. Filmmaker, journalist, really, M.D. perkins and MD. Thank you for being with us.

Alex, you just completed a riveting documentary on controversial Christian Don Wildman

there's a lot that I want you to tell people about, but, Bert Harper mentioned the founder of afa, Don Wildmon, and you just completed a just riveting documentary on him. And I want you to first of all tell people what all you do for the ministry here, Maryland. If you would.

>> Md Perkins: Yeah, I'm a, I'm a filmmaker, film producer, director. So, you know, projects like the God who Speaks that you were featured in, Alex, projects like In His Image, I was a producer on that. And then our most recent documentary, Culture Warrior Don Wildmon and the Battle for Decency, which people can go watch at culturewarrior Movie. You can watch it for free there. But you know, these are the kinds of projects that AFA is really interested in because they speak to the issues of the day and provide resources to the church. Because each of those, if you were kind of listening, you know, the God who Speaks builds us on the foundation of the authority of God's Word in his image. Starts to apply the authority of God's word were to issues of gender and sexuality. And then the question of the culture war and Christians involvement. Yes, it's a historical look back, but it's also explaining why those issues mattered at the time and the context of what would stir up someone like a Don Wildmon to stand up and speak out on issues like abortion or pornography, homosexuality. All of these different issues afflicting us in culture because Christians are called to be salt and light. And that was part of what. What Don was calling people to. So I get to work on projects like that in addition to writing, material that, related to various research projects connected with that, like a book called Dangerous Affirmation, the Threat of Gay Christianity, which I've written as well.

Maryland author writes book about culture war battles over LGBTQ trans narratives

>> Alex McFarland: so much I want to ask, both of you gentlemen about, the book Dangerous Affirmation. And by the way, folks, if you're struggling with how to take a biblical stand and a, fruitful stand against the LGBTQ trans narrative, where can they find the book, M.D. that you wrote? It's a fantastic book. I've recommended it in many places. Dangerous Affirmation. Where is it?

>> Md Perkins: Yes, go to dangerousaffirmation.net dangerousaffirmation.net yout can buy the book there, either in a digital copy or a physical copy through the mail. But dangerousaffirmation.net the documentary Culture Warrior.

>> Alex McFarland: Which is really great, and I would encourage you to watch, meant a lot to me, Maryland. Because I really remember those years, and my parents were conservatives, and then conservative Christians gave their life to the Lord. Watching Charles Stanley, really came back to the Lord. They had made a decision for Christ as teenagers, but really, I saw my mother and dad get on fire for Christ till the day they died through Charles Stanley. But they were very. I remember the late 70s, the early 80s. But you, How did you begin to do the Don Wildmon story? Were you familiar with him already?

>> Md Perkins: I grew up here in Tupelo, so my parents were supporters of afa, so I. I was aware, but I didn't know the depth of the history and all of the details of these battles that were. Were fought throughout the years in the culture war. And so the research really began by just going through all of the old, newsletters, which became the AFA Journal, which became the Stand as we know it today, the magazine, you know, but that documents the whole history. And we've got the archives here at the office and just reading through the details of that so I could understand the actual, little pieces of what he was doing, as well as the big pictures of what battles mattered and what was the outcome of some of those.

Alex McFarland: There were some surprising revelations about Don Draper

>> Alex McFarland: were there any things that you came along that were especially inspiring or surprising.

>> Md Perkins: I mean, there's so many shocking things, like people don't know that Don debated, you know, CBS executive vice presidents, and he was sued by Playboy and Penthouse magazine and all of these kind of major figures. That shows the impact that he had, that he was able to even shake things up with some of these major movers and shakers at high levels of pop culture.

>> Alex McFarland: Hey, when you've got these major secular corporations wanting to bring you down, you're doing good.

>> Bert Harper: I think you're doing something right.

>> Alex McFarland: You're doing right. This is Alex McFarland along with Bert Harper, M.D. perkins. The Hamilton Corner. You're listening to the American Family Radio Network. We're going to come back and learn more about the culture war, some of the specific places where the battle rages and how we can be involved. And as First Peter 2, 9 says, we can show forth the glory of Jesus to a darkened world. Stay tuned. We've got a break. We're back after this.

Are people basically Good? God says in Romans 3:10

Are people basically Good? God says in Romans 3:10, There is no one righteous, not even one. This doesn't mean that people are incapable of doing good things. It means that apart from God, our nature is bent toward self centeredness, pride and rebellion. We don't just make mistakes, we sin. And, sin separates us from a holy God. Read Are People basically good? By Dr. Alex McFarland at thestand.net Shining Light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Alex McFarland talks about the rise of Don Wildmon

Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here talking about the culture war. you know, Maryland. I've, ever since I was a young, young Christian, I've loved to read biographies, and they're very inspiring. I remember when I was a young Christian, I read some biographies of people like Billy Graham and D.L. moody. And, in a way, the documentary you made is kind of a biography, isn't it? talk to us about the rise of Don Wildmon. And I know, Bert is his wife, Linda Wildmon. She was right there, too. I mean, didn't this ministry kind of start just in their home?

>> Md Perkins: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it's called today the American Family association, but back then the initial name was the National Federation for Decency. And that gives you a sense of his concern that it's about decency just in general, like that concept that there's a common good that we should all be aspiring toward. And we used to have an agreed sense of what those terms were as a society, that there was even television itself was initiated to serve the public interest. That was what, even some of the founding documents that regulated TV content would, would describe it as the, the public interest. And Don had seen a shift in society. It hit him especially hard one night in December of 1976 when he's sitting down to watch TV with his family. It's been busy holiday season. You know, as a pastor, you know, you're always doing stuff in the Christmas season, you know, that you can't get a, can't get a quiet moment. But he finally found one is his children were off from school and they sit down and they're like, just, let's just watch tv, you know, something fun together as a family. It's the holidays. There should be something Christmas on. And you know, each station, because there's only three networks, had something objectionable on it. And Don just had his son turn off the tv and he sat there and he thought, what has happened? That this is, this is just a normal weeknight on primetime TV where there's sex on one station, violence on another and profanity on the other and you can't get away from it. And so that just, that hit him in a deep way and it really laid a new burden and a new calling on him where he ended up leaving the pastorate to start the National Federation for Decency so that he could begin to be an accountability to the media networks and, and the larger culture and Christians everywhere to kind of speak up about the ways that we had just been apathetic, quite frankly, as people. You know, you just go through life, you're not really thinking about what you're watching on tv. Yeah, I mean, it might bother you at times, but you can just turn it off. Change the channel. What if you can't change the channel? What if you change it? And there's something else objectionable on, you know, that this, this was having an influence on society. And he was thinking like even the rise of violence within culture, where the FBI had released a statistic at the time in 1977, that between 1966 and 77 that you, were 50% more likely to be assaulted just out on the street. And so he's like, how is this not being influenced in some ways by the media that we're watching the ultra violent stuff on TV and all of these things. So that's, that's really what lit the fire underneath Don Wildmon as a pastor. And I mean, obviously we're grateful for what he was able to do because he didn't just have his personal conviction, he sought to get others involved as part of this public witness and to build an institution, an organization, the National Federation for Decency, now afa, that continues to fight on even after he's gone to glory.

Don Wildman initiated a boycott against Burger King over pornography

>> Alex McFarland: Bert, did you, Do you remember your first meeting with Don Wildmon?

>> Bert Harper: I do. It was about pornography. It was about it being displayed on a. On a shelf level so kids or anyone could look at it. And I, went to that meeting and he was telling about the. Already knew the dangers. I did not have to know that. but, okay, what can we do? So I was one of those pastors says, okay, what's the most effective way? Yes, you can declare it from the pulpit, but that just goes so far. So action. what really made the difference, and it's in the mission statement, inform, equip, and then quote, third one, activate. That's really what angered them because I, would say the informing had. Was taking place. People knew that we had enough people to know what was being informed. Equipping was a little, okay, what can you do? You always share the word of God, and it's quick and powerful, but yet is her father. But when he added the word activate to get others to join him, like turn off the TV there, for a week, activate. That's really what put him in the crosshairs of the, you know, all the network. The. It was the man the network loves to hate.

>> Md Perkins: Yes.

>> Bert Harper: That's sort of like Trump now, the man the president the Democrats love to hate. Okay. You know what I mean? that was the truth because he was saying, okay, we can't just sit here as MD was saying, we need to do something. He was ready to lead the charge.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and let me say, when a world that's, the enemy of God and truth and holiness hates you, you're probably doing something right. and, you know, I remember some of those boycotts, and it speaks with really kind of the only language that corporate America responds to, which is money. Now, M.D. and the reason I'm telling you folks to watch Culture Warrior, the documentary, because I find it to be inspiring, folks. If you've ever wondered what can one person do? I mean, look around. I mean, there's publishing, broadcasting, a news department, right? I mean, I was up in Canada, Maryland, on a speaking engagement at the University of Toronto. I'm up in Canada and I'm at a hotel, and people recognize me and they say, oh, we listen to AFA in Canada. Well, so you'll be inspired, friends. And this thing of first, Peter 2:9 that we are called to show forth the praises of Christ at the one who called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. we're called to do that, as Don Wildmon did. But, speak to some of the. So you're saying some of the corporations sued him?

>> Md Perkins: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: that means he must have been effective.

>> Md Perkins: Well, you know, people say the boycotts don't work, but why did people try and stop him? And why did they want him to relinquish the boycott? So let me tell you a great story, Alex. So one of. One of these, One of these times in the early 1990s, there was Burger King. Of course, everybody knows Burger King. They were one of the major advertisers on these. These raunchy shows at the time. And so Don initiated a boycott against Burger King. And Burger King was so impacted by the boycott that within a matter of weeks, they. They requested a meeting with AFA leadership to try and get him to relinquish this. And you know what they did? they tried to buy off Don. They offered him $7 million to get him to stop the boycott, and he refused. He said, this isn't about money. This is about principle.

>> Bert Harper: Wow.

>> Md Perkins: And so they had to relinquish, you know, this and kind of recognize what he was doing. And, what he ended up getting them to do was to run advertisements in all the newspapers in the country saying that we support American values and traditional values, and that's the kind of stuff that we're going to promote on TV now. And so, you know, wow.

>> Alex McFarland: I did not know that.

>> Md Perkins: It's an unknown story, and it's actually a special feature on the documentary. We don't. We didn't have time to include it in the main part of the movie. But there's just amazing stories like that of one man really having an impact, being used by God in these sorts of ways. And all of these things, I mean, like, they're little battles. This is what confuses people, is like, it feels like, well, what's. It's just Burger King. It's just one company. You know, like, you didn't solve the whole problem. No, but you made a difference in one spot. Spot.

>> Alex McFarland: Sure.

>> Md Perkins: You did what you could do in one area. And then sometimes what happens is that one area causes other people to kind of back up and be a little more timid about pursuing the same things that Burger King.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and I know, not too many years ago, AFA had a boycott of Target.

>> Md Perkins: That's right.

>> Alex McFarland: And. And I can tell you my Wife never went in a Target again. Now, I realized there maybe there have been some change on that, but Target was very pro gay. And I remember, going in stores. We were living in Colorado at the time, and I was working for James Dobson. And there were some very objectionable things Target was standing for. And, I can tell you Angie McFarland has never set foot in one of those stores again and a number of others. So here's the thing, folks. I do think we have to exercise discernment and where we spend money and spend our. If we're going to essentially underwrite something, you know, we don't want to be underwriting things that mitigate against God, family, truth, America.

Bert Harper and I have a new book out on prophecy and end times

and folks, if you're just tuning in, Alex McFarland here sitting in for Abe Hamilton III with me in the studio is Bert Harper. And not only is Bert the co host of Exploring the Word, he and I have our third book out, which is the. It was the premium gift for the Share a Thon this week. But you can get that book. It's 100 Bible questions on prophecy and the end times. If you go to afa.net we'd appreciate you to pray for the release of that book. And then Maryland. Perkins, you've got resources and the book Dangerous Affirmation. And I want to get to this area that, is really where the battle rages. The battle for morals and gender and sexuality.

God raised up leaders in the late 70s as America began to lose soul

But before we leave the subject of Don Wildmon, I remember when I worked for Focus on the Family, and just this year, Dr. Don Wildmon died earlier in 25. Was it this year?

>> Bert Harper: 24.

>> Md Perkins: It was December of 23. It was the very end of 23.

>> Alex McFarland: the end of 23 was it. Okay, so it was farther back than I realized. Well, this year James Dobson passed away. But I remember when I worked out there 22 years ago, he was routinely. Dr. Dobson was routinely on the phone with either Don Wildmon or Jerry Falwell or James Kennedy or Bill Bright or Phyllis Schlafly. there were. Or Adrian Rogers, who was at one time board chair of Focus. Bert, what do you think about in the late 70s, as America began to kind of almost lose her soul? God raised up leaders, didn't he?

>> Bert Harper: 1977 is the date. And that's the founding of several of these ministries. And they have to do first with faith and family. Okay, those came and they were under attack. The family, severely under attack, faith under attack. And these leaders that God raised up, he raises them up From a burden. I used this earlier. There's three calls of the prophets in the Old Testament. A burden, a vision and a word. So you put those together. All of these people had a burden for the direction America was going to. Okay. Includes in the world. So God sees the world. He doesn't have tunnel vision on America. We just need to understand that. But America is so significant that that was important. Second, then after he gave them a burden, he gave them a vision. We've got to make a difference. And then the word came of examples. This is what you do. Focus. Started that way. National Federation for Decency, American Family association. Started that way. And you look all the way to D. James Kennedy, you find out that's where it started. And the burden comes first. The burden comes. And talking with Don, as I knew him, m. And got to know him, that was the burden of his heart. Early on, family, you remember what he was doing. He was sitting around trying to find something for his family. And what did he find? He found his faith was under attack, which would undermine the family. And so those are the areas that was started. And yes, he stepped out in faith. Got a word from God. Yeah, you need to do this. And he did it. And now we have American Family Association, Maryland.

Hamilton Corner discusses the threat of gay Christianity on American Family Radio

>> Alex McFarland: you wrote the book Dangerous Affirmation. The subtitle I'd, like for you to comment on, if you would, the threat of gay Christianity right now. if you believe the Bible folks, you know that the term gay Christianity would be an oxymoron.

>> Md Perkins: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: Contradictory, yes. Incompatible.

>> Md Perkins: Absolutely.

>> Alex McFarland: And yet, you. It was very necessary that you create this book. It's a fantastic book, very well done. Tells about the, premise and the content of your work.

>> Md Perkins: Well, that's why I put the word gay Christianity in quotes, because it's not a real thing. But it does describe a current movement that exists within the culture and within the church to try and reconcile the Christian faith and homosexuality, which of course they cannot be reconciled. At least if you're going to read the Bible consistently with what the Bible actually teaches. But yet there are many attempts to do this. And we've seen it, across the mainline churches have become gay affirming in their stance. even conservative churches have started to embrace something called side B or revoice ideology. This concept that you can adopt a gay identity even though you're saying, I'm refraining from practicing homosexual behavior. So it sounds good at first until you start to realize that it's still embracing aspects of the homosexual construct. And it's still a, promotion of that. And then even on, on the more wicked side of things is queer theology, which is just seeking to eradicate all sorts of boundaries and borders and just be transgressive and shocking and really revolting to, to just normal people in order to make homosexuality seem more palatable. And so this is, that's, that's what I'm dealing with in the book is there's a theological component of how should we think about this in light of what the scripture teaches and all the different questions that are there from scripture? And then historically, how did we get here? What are some of the movements that have happened in culture and society that have shaped the way that people think about homosexuality, sexual orientation, even that word homosexuality kind of has a very particular political motive in order to internalize homosexual feelings and to make a person a homosexual rather than just someone who is acting out a certain way and all of these sorts of things.

>> Alex McFarland: to what degree is there the assumption that people are genetically born gay?

>> Md Perkins: Well that has been disproven, but it still continues to be, bandied about out there. Like people seem to just have this inherent assumption that some somehow you're born gay and that you can't change.

>> Alex McFarland: And now they say born trans.

>> Md Perkins: Right. Even though that's whole, the whole trans movement is built on the idea that gender is fluid. So I don't know how you can be born, trans when gender is fluid. At the same time it just, it's incompatible. And that's what I'm also trying to point out in the book.

>> Alex McFarland: folks, this is the Hamilton Corner. Alex McFarland, Bert Harper, M.D. perkins, his book Dangerous Affirmation, the Threat of Gay Christianity. You must read this book. It will, I'm sorry we have to get up to speed on issues like this, but folks, we are in a battle. Don Wildmon knew it. We are in a battle and we must take our place to stand for truth. We have a brief break, one more big segment. Stay with us. We're back after this.

>> Md Perkins: Children, of course are given to parents, by God, not to the state. Children don't belong to the state.

>> Bert Harper: It was.

>> Md Perkins: We need to make sure that those lines are very clearly protected in increasingly a secularized culture where the government has not only, tried to make the church completely irrelevant, but basically replace parents. Jenna Ellis in the morning, weekdays at 7 Central on American Family Radio.

>> Alex McFarland: The Hamilton quarter podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Don Wildmon says you have a role to play in the battle for truth

Welcome back to the program. Hope you're having a blessed day. I hope you're planning to be in church on Sunday. Do that, maybe even if you've never been to church in a long time, find the house of God on Sunday and be in church. And of course by all means, if you've never asked Christ into your heart, we always say this, that Jesus is as close by as a prayer. He really is. And if you're a believer, and I hope you are, understand and this is what we're trying to get across, you have a role to play in the battle for truth. You really do. God will use you and you have no idea how your stand for truth can influence others and nudge people to that which is good and right and true. Don Wildmon did that today. One man's obedience is really touching America and beyond every day of the week. And we give God the glory for that.

There are assumptions that people are born gay or transgender, which is untrue

Maryland, before the break, we were talking about how these assumptions, these presuppositions that people are born gay that you know, it's amazing to me, in Bert too, the Bible is so clear. I mean even if people were born gay, which they're not, and I say that having done a master's in developmental psychology from Liberty and I had ah, faculty in my master's program, in fact one faculty member from UCLA Medical School in California and we spent a whole semester, now granted this was 29 years ago, but we spent a whole semester studying how it is abuse, molestation, it is pain and trauma that cause people to mitigate toward same sex attraction, gender confusion, deviancy. I had a whole semester on ministering to the people that are tempted toward deviant behaviors and it was always a result of abuse. It's not genetics, it's environment. People are not born gay or born trans. It's a means of trying to deal with pain. Now is that what your research is showing these days?

>> Md Perkins: Yes. Yeah, that would be consistent with the things that I've researched as well. And there's a number of studies on this. And this isn't purely a Christian argument. I mean there's secular scholars who are making this point, like you said. But the other thing that I discovered in this is that what gay activists found is that it's a very useful tool politically to claim that someone is born gay because then it moves homosexuality into a civil rights category. It makes a new class of person that must be protected and extolled and celebrated so that certain laws can be passed. Certain legislation can come to the fore. Certain, Supreme Court decisions can come down the line that have long lasting implications in reshaping society. So, yes, even though the science completely and utterly disproves it, it's still very politically useful. And so it will continue to be that until all of their gains are made. And then people will kind of devolve into just living by whatever desires they have and however they want to identify. And the chaos will continue to kind of, spill out.

>> Alex McFarland: Has the political battle, because you're right, and folks, listen to this behavior in, in the lgbtq, trans, lobby behavior is an ethnicity. And this is false. I mean, a man decides that he's going to identify as a woman, well, that's a mindset and a behavior, but that is not an ethnicity.

>> Md Perkins: Right.

>> Alex McFarland: And so people need to understand that. But, the political battles, have they been lost, or is there still a window of opportunity to make a difference?

>> Md Perkins: Well, we have seen some promising cultural shifts in the last couple of years, because quite frankly, I think you've probably seen this too, Alex, and I know you have, Bert. The transgender movement has really overplayed its hand, because what is it arguing against? It's arguing against basic biology, basic terminology, grammar, the English language. I mean, what people have been taught and seeped in their whole life. And we just inherently know that there's a difference between men and women. It doesn't take long to teach. You don't have to really teach children that because they sense it. If a boy is a boy, he behaves differently, he wants different things, he's more energetic and all of these different things. We don't have to teach that. We know it. And so you have to be, you know, you have to receive extra levels of education in order to, you know, brainwash you out of indoctrination. Yeah, you could call it that. Yeah, exactly.

>> Bert Harper: You know, when you hear that in creation, the Bible is about creation, and then the fall and redemption, if you had to put it in three big categories, that would be it. Now what happens? There's always a turning from. In order for redemption to happen is called we turn from our sin and turn to God in repentance. In creation, we turn from our true identity into a false identity. so in order for that to happen, they have to turn from. And you guys were talking about the pain, the difficulties, that of homosexuality or even trans. They're turning from who they are in creation and turn into something. And when that happens, you're going against what God made us for. And so that is the battle. It's a true battle of identity, isn't it?

>> Md Perkins: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's Paul's point in Romans 1, you know, is that humans wanted to serve the creature rather than the creator. And so that that statement is the precursor to then the example that he uses of homosexuality and going against nature. So you're right there, Bert. I mean, that's what it is.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, it's funny. Not funny, but ironic how much the, non binary mindset has infected, the world. When elected leaders and academics and many young people that have been very impressionable, they'll say, you can't define what a woman is or isn't, Md.

The church has an obligation to call people back to sanity and truth

Do you feel like the church has not only an opportunity, but really an obligation to call people back to sanity and truth?

>> Md Perkins: Absolutely. I mean, not just an obligation to call people back to truth, but also an obligation to be there with compassion and the hope of the gospel. You know, I was just having this conversation with Steve Jordal, one of our newsmen over here in American Family News, because he had sent me a study about how those who are detransitioning suddenly find themselves at odds with the larger LGBTQ quote, unquote community. You know, even though they're saying that I'm, I'm trying to live consistent with my biological sex, they're not making this transition even for spiritual or ideological reasons. They've just found the dead end street of transgender medicine to be a false ideology, and they don't want to pursue that anymore. Why can't someone, pursue that and still have community within that? Well, because it's not a true community. But Christians should be there with the hope of the gospel for people who are detransitioning, even though it's messy, even though it may not be motivated initially by spiritual reasons, but we can bring the hope and healing of the gospel of Jesus Christ to bear in those sorts of situations where someone is finding themselves isolated and alone. And I think there will be many such refugees of the sexual revolution who are ripe for the gospel, ripe for the message and the hope and healing of Christ, if we are going to be ready there as the church to be Christ's hands, and feet.

Bert, what advice do you have for Christians and church leaders

>> Alex McFarland: Bert, let me ask you this. You've pastored. God has used you so much. I've just admired the way you minister. But what do you say to the people out there that, they want to speak truth, they want to stand for what the word of God clearly says, and frankly, to advocate for the best Welfare of people. What advice do you have for Christians and church leaders?

>> Bert Harper: Honestly, what you have, the truth will set you free. Now we know ultimate truth is Jesus Christ. The truths. But truths will help you get there. So what they're doing, they're trying to say, yeah, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. But they refuse. Many of them are refusing to deal with the truths that is taught in the Word of God. Even by Jesus when he said a man shall leave a woman except cleave unto his wife, I mean male and female. So listen, you just. The word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword. So man, when I was preaching, I didn't have a, have a sermon on just what was going on. But illustrations, okay? When you talk about marriage, you do talk about it being a man and a woman. But while you're doing that, you bring in that means it's not between two people of the same sex. Now I hear preachers talk about it, but they won't dare make those kind of statements. But you do it all the time on Exploring the Word. Here's one of his statements. Maryland. Let me tell you what it's not. Alex does that so well. And so what you do when these are preaching and you talk about your identity, let me tell you what it's not. If you want to talk about marriage, let me tell you what it is not. And that way you're not, you're, you are speaking truth. And you need to do that. But sometimes they need to hear what it is not. I love this illustration. you know, counterfeit money. I understand that when the treasury trains those people who are looking for counterfeit, they don't look at all the counterfeits to find out what all they're doing. Guess what? They look at the real thing. Know the quality of it so well that when they see something that is counterfeit, they know it. So we preach the truth in every area. So that, and we are young people from young. So that when they see what it's not, they'll know it is not. It's same way with artists. You have these people who are experts on someone's work and there'll be someone who has put up a false painting and they signed it and they've tried to look at it and make it look real because they're so good. But when they have a fake Mona Lisa, okay, the person who's the expert in that field can look at it and see that's not the real deal.

The reality is sin is both sophisticated and deceptive

>> Md Perkins: Could I Add something to this conversation. Because there's another thing, I think, on the pastoral side to add to what you were saying, Bert, which was excellent. The reality is sin is both sophisticated and deceptive and that there are sins underneath these other sins. You know, you're talking about issues of identity and homosexuality and behavior and desire and all that. But underneath that, there's root sins of bitterness, envy, pride, self righteousness. And those are sins, frankly, we all struggle with, however you identify. And those are sins that need to be rooted out just as much as homosexuality. And so that's something we all, we all go to the same cross, and we're all equal at the foot of the cross, and we all need the same Savior, and we all need to repent and believe the gospel again and again.

First Corinthians 6, 9 and following talk about repented sins

>> Alex McFarland: That's a perfect segue to something I wanted to ask you because, you know, like in First Corinthians 6, 10 and following. Well, First Corinthians 6, 9 and following, there's a list of sins that must be repented of to see the kingdom of heaven. And just like, while we would call out homosexual, activity, we also would preach against heterosexual promiscuity. And so we're not singling out a sin. Now here's the question Andy, Stanley and others have talked about. There's a term they call clobber verses, right? what is that? And why is that, not how we want to handle the word of God?

>> Md Perkins: That's just a way to kind of silence Christians whenever they want to bring the Bible into this discussion. That's purely what it is. It's just the passages in Scripture that clearly talk against homosexuality. And, there's several in Leviticus, there's 1 Corinthians, there's 1 in Timothy, and in Romans 1. Of course, it's just a handful of passages that talk about this, and it's an attempt to get that out of the conversation, as if that's somehow inapplicable or irrelevant. But the law of God is always relevant because it's the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. It shows us our need. It shows us the perfect standard and the fact that we don't live up to it. So if you want to remove the law, then good luck having the gospel, because you can't get there without the law.

>> Bert Harper: Let me add what you said earlier about those underlying things. Depression's real. All those things, they're real deal. You have to deal with two things that usually, those underlying things is unmet expectations. And the second one is unhealed, broken relationships. When you apply that to the pain, when you look at the pain someone's under, it's usually one of those unmet expectations. They were expecting this from a spouse, parent, those two things. And you, if you don't deal with that and you let bitterness come in, you're setting yourself up, as you said earlier, to go deeper into it, to try to cover it up and make themselves feel better about these root issues. Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: We're almost out of time. And there's so much more.

Bert Hamilton: Your church must take a biblical stand on homosexuality

I want to ask each one of you, folks, if there is a cultural, flashpoint that you must speak about. Your church must take a biblical stand, for it's to stand with what God says about morals, gender, human sexuality. The book, Dangerous Affirmation, it's a fantastic resource that will equip you the threat of gay Christianity. The author right here in the studio with us, MD M. Perkins. Thank you, sir.

>> Md Perkins: Thank you.

>> Alex McFarland: And we look forward to all the great work you're doing. part of the AFA website where people can find your work.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah.

>> Md Perkins: DangerousAffirmation.net to get the book and culturewarrior movie to go watch the movie about Don Wildmon.

>> Alex McFarland: Wonderful. Bert, you and I have the privilege every afternoon of being on exploring the word. God bless you, folks. Thanks for listening to the hamilton corner. Alex McFarland staying, saying stay strong, stay bold, speak truth. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.