Today's Issues offers a Christian response to the issues of the day

>> Ed Vitagliano: Welcome to Today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, good morning everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Today's Issues is the name of this program and it's Monday, July 7, 2025. Again, as always, we thank you for listening to American Family Radio. Tim Wildmon, m in studio with Ed Battagliano. Good morning, Ed.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Good morning, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: And Fred Jackson. Good morning, Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: Hey, Tim.

Death toll from Texas flooding rises to 82; dozens still missing

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, fellows, there are moments in our lives that are etched in our brain, that we remember, you know, when it happened at least. And this is one of them after what happened in Texas over the weekend. Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: Absolutely. A story that began to unfold very early on Friday morning. Now, people in the area of Guadalupe, the Guadalupe area in central Texas, communities you might want to think about as far north as, as Killeen, but the, the area, well south of that, it's kind of west of Austin. Ah, it's an area very well known, scenic, a lot of campgrounds, hill country, in the hill country, summer homes, that kind of thing. Early on Friday morning, there was a flash flood warning that went out. But I'm talking about 1130 in the morning when this flash flood warning went out. Now, they had been expecting rain, heavy rain, but by 4 o' clock on Friday morning, it became, began to become clear that this was much more than even a flash flood warning. It was going to be very serious. And so because of the hour that this all occurred and that, we had reports of the Guadalupe river rising 27ft in 45 minutes, has tributaries and streams from that mountainous area around this river just dump water in there. And as of this moment, and I know our folks have been keeping track of this through the weekend, the death toll has risen to 82. There are still dozens of people missing. The search goes on. If you've seen pictures from the area, it is like a war zone. There's even video of this, how quickly this water rose. People weren't expecting it. There were actually pictures of people down by the river and they had to scramble. The water was rising so quickly. so if you get a chance to look at those videos. But there's been a lot of attention, particularly in the Christian community, because there was a girls Christian camp and the loss there is, it's called Camp Mystic. As of this morning, what we're hearing from this camp is 27 people who are at that camp are dead. 11 are m. Missing. we're talking children and counselors this morning. Of the 11 missing, 10 kids, 10 little girls, and one counselor. One of those, girls that was camping there who managed to escape. her name is Kaylee McAlery and she was interviewed on Fox News this morning. She, she was sure she was going to die. Cut number one.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I put on my name tag because I didn't. I was scared that if water's coming out next to our other cabins that our cabin might be next. And I just put it on just for safekeeping, saying if I. In my head I was saying, if something does happen and I do get swept away, at least I'll have my.

>> Tim Wildmon: Name on my body.

>> Fred Jackson: She thought for sure she was going to die, so she put her name tag on so that people could identify her if her body was found. There was another interview this morning with a local restaurant owner. Lorena Guillen is her name. She kind of unfolds as has customers realized they were in growing danger there at her local restaurant. Cut number three.

>> Ed Vitagliano: If you had seen what July 3rd looked like, you will never guess that this was coming that night. I even at my restaurant I had a band playing. I even had them played outside because there was no rain coming. So everybody had a wonderful time. A lot of my customers that, that were here July 3rd are, are missing. Hearing the screens because you couldn't see anything. It was pitch black. But hearing people screams, kids screaming, asking for help. cars were floating away with the lights on. You could see the lights and you can hear honking and. And if there was like not one or two, but there were dozens of vehicles just floating away. Actually, he was the last one out of the restaurant. We finished cleaning and, and one, o' clock in the morning, he. He went home, because it started to rain really hard. And, he got. After, his house started flooding eventually and, to get his family out, he broke a window and he cut an artery on his arm. Really hard, deep. And, he got his family to safety. He did. He got his babies out, three beautiful little kids. but, he bled to death. Wow.

>> Fred Jackson: Horrible.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm reading on, Fox, that there was another one because you mentioned Fred. Lots of camps, lots of, RVs and campgrounds. This article talks about another summer camp. It was a, Presbyterian, assembly, some kind of recreation destination. They started, they were monitoring things and they noticed the water rising and they were able to get all 70 of the folks, children and adults who were at the summer camp, get them Out.

>> Fred Jackson: But they.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They had somebody monitoring the weather, and then they looked outside and saw the water rising. But as this lady was sharing, this happened at night. And, you know, I guess in daytime, maybe you might see some rising of the water. But my understanding is this river rose was, 27ft in 45 minutes. That's what we're told, as you said, all the water being dumped in it from different tributaries. I know. And my family lived in, New Mexico and Arizona. Talking about, like, my parents and. And, we were always warned about what they called arroyos. And that's, I think that's a Spanish word for these areas where the water comes rushing out of the mountains when you have bad storms.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And they have to warn people because people will camp in them. And then it's so sudden, you don't see it coming.

At this moment, 82 people are confirmed dead from Friday's flooding

>> Tim Wildmon: Now, the, the weather part of this story, the human tragedy is the top story here because the loss of life. It's so many families affected, you said confirmed 84, 82. At this moment, 82 passed away.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: With. With others missing.

>> Fred Jackson: Dozens are still missing.

>> Tim Wildmon: I was reading, there's a story on cnn, and here's all it says. I can't watch the video. It says that, that four months of rain, what would normally be four months of rain in that area fell in hours. Yeah, I guess. I guess you could say. And so it, was a rain bomb, storms, and I don't know, you know, where exactly it started. You know, upriver. So, you know, because you just wonder, how in the world does this happen? Is it a shallow river or is it, just a phenomena? sorry, the pun. It's not a pun, really. A perfect, storm, so to speak.

>> Fred Jackson: I think that's what it is.

>> Tim Wildmon: A rainbow.

>> Fred Jackson: What I understand you had this front that started to move through upriver, and it parked itself for a while.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Fred Jackson: It didn't move.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Fred Jackson: And it just.

>> Tim Wildmon: I've seen that happen.

>> Fred Jackson: The. The, comparison to what happened in North Carolina, Asheville, last September is actually amazing. I was in Asheville just a few weeks ago, and somebody there was explaining what happened. They had a front come in, and it dumped about 7 or 8 inches of rain, which is highly unusual in that Asheville area. But it was followed up just a few days later by, Helene. Yeah, the storm helene, which dumped 17 inches on top of that. And we saw what happened there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You already have ground that's saturated, so there's nowhere for the water to go except to run off it rises. Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: And then it takes in these. And I walked in downtown Asheville, and it looks. Still looks like a war zone.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Even now.

>> Fred Jackson: Even now. I, I mean, it's, It's. Well, this will take months, to repair. Here's what's happening. This is kind of. Now people are trying to even blame the Trump administration because there are cutbacks in weather forecasters and all this sort of thing. It's very interesting this morning. Kurt Knudsen, he's a Fox News tech consultant. He says the weather service did its job in this cut. Number five.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Let's set the record straight here. So, first of all, you've got the National Weather Service prediction and warnings. They were issued. Those did go out. We also now have a timeline. In just doing a cursory investigation, we know that at least, three hours after the first warning, another signal, went out to phones. Just what the commissioner was saying didn't happen, actually did happen. So, yes, you can turn those off on your phone, but for the most part, people, even when the phone asleep, it will alert you. If you have your government alerts turned on your phone, you should always have those, especially if you're in a, threatening area.

>> Fred Jackson: So basically what he's saying, everything that they could have done was done. But the time of the day plays into this also. Like they were saying, the counselors at this camp, mystic, they're not allowed to have cell phones in there for whatever reason. They don't want the counselors playing on their cell phones at night and that sort of thing. And obviously the campers aren't allowed to have it. So, the blame game has started. But you've got to put all of these other things in context.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's also the time of the year, too.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: If people are at camp or they're on vacation, they're probably less likely. They're going to be turning. They'll be turning their phones off, they'll be turning their notifications off. And so you're not probably paying as much attention to things like weather alerts as you do when you're trying to figure out how am I going to get to work?

>> Tim Wildmon: And, and this is happening between 1.

>> Fred Jackson: And 5 in the morning, early Friday morning. Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So. Because I read some accounts where some of the kids at the camp said, we woke up and. And water was in our cabin. You know what I'm saying? And it kept. It was rising fast. So, I mean, this just came upon suddenly. So you having water. And I were just watching a video of the. And Then this was a daytime video. So this must have been several hours later after it struck the campgrounds in that area. But, because the video was taken in the daylight, so it's probably downriver, you know, a couple of hours or whatever. I'm just guessing here. But the point is to watch the speed which the floods, came and how fast they rose. this is one of those things where nobody could have predicted it. That's my assessment of watching it. Nobody could have predicted that this would have happened so fast.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: And so, anyway, 80. 82.

Some are blaming cuts in federal disaster funding for deadly California flooding

You said 82.

>> Fred Jackson: It's 82. And of course, we talked about this Christian girls camp, Camp mystic. And, I mean, there's. You can imagine these young girls there. They're fast asleep. All of a sudden there is a realization. One of the counselors, whatever the case may be, and I think we have one of the mystic counselors, Catherine Summerhill is her name, she talks about her efforts to get. And two military trucks there to rescue them.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Cut number four, our girls from the dining hall, which is at the very top of a hill, many feet away from the Guadalupe river, which was risen 26. So many feet. so we guided our girls hand in hand to these military, trucks. And we all, had to get.

>> Fred Jackson: On those trucks, 30 of us at.

>> Ed Vitagliano: A time, hand in hand, as.

>> Fred Jackson: They guided us to safety.

>> Tim Wildmon: okay, so 26ft. She mentioned that this is what's being reported. 26ft. How do you pronounce the name of the river?

>> Fred Jackson: Guadalupe.

>> Tim Wildmon: Guadalupe River. 26ft in 45 minutes. Okay. A basketball goal is 10ft high, or would that be considered a story?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I think ten feet high.

>> Fred Jackson: Eight to ten. Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Story is a story.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You're talking about two stories.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes. So you're talking about two and a half stories high. If you were looking at, in terms of a building, in 45 minutes.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's like a dam breaking.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Ah, and it's not only the height, it's the force.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes. The force of it moving. So I don't know. I don't know how anybody could have predicted that forecast. That you can forecast heavy rain, but forecast that kind of, ah, surge, in the, in the rise.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, it's certainly inappropriate to be blaming people for, you know, for one side of the political spectrum to be using this to blame President Trump.

>> Tim Wildmon: Or are they saying the cuts, these, these far lefties who are deranged people. Yeah, they're saying that the cuts in the federal programs having to do with weather is what led to this disaster? Yeah, what even m blame fema? Well, FEMA is post disaster.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, the what just an aside here. President Trump had criticized FEMA and had a lot of people after their response to the hurricane. Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and so forth. But that was President, Trump was saying, well, maybe we just need to give the money to the states and let them administer it if FEMA can't do any better than they did.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That was about incompetence, not cutting off disaster funding.

>> Tim Wildmon: And I said, even if you, if you, even if you blamed that, that's something that happens after the disaster, not a preventative, measure. go ahead.

Two sisters found with hands locked together following devastating Texas floods

>> Ed Vitagliano: I was just going to say Steve Jordahl, sent me a link to a story. this I think is on probably, New New, York Post. Now some of our listeners may have read this already, but it says two sisters killed in the devastating Texas Hill country floods were found with their hands locked together. grieving family member, family members said as they continued to search for the girls missing grandparents. Liz. I, I, I saw as many, of us and our listeners have a video, a time lapse video. One section of the river and the speed with, now it's time lapse obviously, but the speed with which this river rose and the power as you're mentioning, of the water and cars swept away. As we heard one witness say, there's just no resisting that. I mean people get sweat, people get swept out to sea all the time at the beach because of a riptide.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And that's just pulling at, pulling your feet out from under you. from under under you. But you get hit by this wall of water moving that fast, debris in the water, it's it's a, it was a terrifying thing to watch some of these videos.

>> Tim Wildmon: There were houses, there was a houses floating down.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Fred Jackson: Sheds.

>> Tim Wildmon: Cars.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yep.

>> Tim Wildmon: you know what? Just, I'm just thinking 80 to 90%. I don't know how you put a percentage on exactly, but of this, the tragedy was caused by the fact that this was happening at 4 o' clock.

>> Fred Jackson: In the morning played a lot into it.

>> Tim Wildmon: If this is 4 o' clock in the afternoon, word spreads faster.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Adults see what's happening, you see what's happening.

>> Tim Wildmon: And you're going, wait, what? Look at this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Head high ground.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. So I think the fact that everybody's in their beds at that time of the night and you said, and you know a lot of people aren't paying attention to their phones Necessarily, they got them on silent, or as Ed said, they got them turned off. And you said some of these campgrounds, the counselors weren't allowed to have phones, which I can understand.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Plus, even if. Even if you are alerted, right. Danger, it's pitch dark.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, you don't know which way to go and who. You know, where is everybody? It's a terror. It's a terrifying scenario. Lots of parents and grandparents having nightmares over this. But for the folks who have lost loved ones, that the nightmare is real.

>> Tim Wildmon: You know, I was reading there's still family members, obviously, who are searching.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: For their loved ones, including the little. Some of the little girls who are at this camp who are missing. still, even, you know, that's. Anyway, we are seeing some rescues.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, there's. There's, hundreds of people that have been rescued. and, you know, kudos to those teams that are doing this. So we were talking about one story this morning. Maybe Steve will expand on this a little bit about a, I think he's a National Guard, work. They had a helicopter in there just going down and plucking people. There's another story about a lady who drifted down. She was caught up in the water. She managed to grab a branch and hang in a tree until she was rescued. I mean, we're going to keep getting stories about this for a long time.

>> Ed Vitagliano: One of these individual young, men who's, I guess, part of the Coast Guard.

>> Fred Jackson: I think so, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Saved 165 people.

>> Fred Jackson: Just plucking them up, bringing them up.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And this is with a helicopter.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, he actually went down and then got people into the basket or whatever the case was, to be airlifted out of there. You know, one of the questions that's coming up already, and it'll come up again and again and again. How. Why would God allow this? Pastor Robert Jeffress, pastor of a First Baptist in Dallas, was being interviewed this morning on Fox, and I wanted you to listen to what he had to say about this. This question that is certainly going to be asked over and over again. Cut number eight.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And, Lawrence, the question I'm often asked is, why would God allow something like this to happen? And I remind people that the world we're living in right now is not the way God intended the world to be. Floods like this, earthquakes, war, death, none of those things was part of God's plan. But the good news is this world we're in won't always be this way. The great hope of the Christian faith is that one day Christ is going to return and he's going to bring a new heaven and a new earth. And on that day, the Bible says God will wipe away every tear from our eyes and there shall no longer be any death or mourning or crying or pain, for the first things will have passed away. That's the hope of the Christian faith.

>> Fred Jackson: I must say, too. Robert Jeffress being interviewed Fox and Friends this morning. You know, the gospel was presented this morning. Fox and Friends went about two hours on this this morning.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: And the gospel present was presented a number of times, including Lawrence Jones, who's one of the co hosts of Fox and Friends. In the morning, he talked about the gospel. He talked about these kids, that we believe that were saved. It was a Christian camp.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: that they're in heaven right now and they'll be reunited with their families. I mean, that's our hope, as Dr. Jeffress has been done.

Why does God allow this to happen in the first place?

>> Tim Wildmon: I think the question is. Which we can't answer because it's been asked for thousands of years. We can't answer altogether because we're not God is. Why does God allow this to happen in the first place? To, to innocent people, I say innocent people like these children. And we've all thought about that. And then we go back to our lives and then something else happens and you go, why does God allow this to happen? Because God is sovereign. He is all powerful. He can prevent anything he wants to. Right?

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So listen, I'm no theologian, but I have. I don't know if that's just, I don't know. I'm not. I don't even know if I'm speaking for you guys. Okay. When I say what I'm going to say, but I think, God, we live on planet Earth. And you know what? bad things happen because of nature. Bad things happen because of people's decisions. Bad thing happens because of our own decisions. In this case, nature struck. When it rains that much on top of an area and it floods like that, people are going to be, affected by, by that. And it's, it's not any. And so God does not. Gosh, I'm not even. God does not intervene to stop that. Always. And when he does, very rare. And when he does, guess what it's called.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: A miracle. A miracle. So we've all had happens. I think we've all had things happen in our lives. We go, well, that was a miracle of God, otherwise something else worse would have happened. Have we not all experienced that?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, absolutely.

>> Tim Wildmon: But then There are. But more times than not, we go, well, this happened because. Listen, my first cousin's wife was killed when they had a baby. The baby was 2 or 3. And you know why? she was killed because of a drunk driver. And you go, well, why did God allow that to happen? Well, the man who struck them chose to drink, got drunk, and they were impacted by that, then drove and then drove. And God does not always intervene to stop those things from happening that naturally happen as a result of consequences of, in this case, nature or poor decisions by us or by other people. Does that. Yeah, I know that doesn't. That's not a satisfactory answer if you're. If you've lost your.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, let me give you my answer.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. When we get back.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, I'm just kidding. I was just kidding. Yeah.

Dr. A.J. Cronin writes about forgiveness in his writings

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Don Wildmon: It's my turn. Here is your host for my turn.

>> Tim Wildmon: Don Wileman.

>> Don Wildmon: Dr. A.J. cronin was a physician in England's health. Broke, unable to carry on his medical work, Dr. Cronin turned to writing. It was one of the best things that ever happened to the world of literature, for, through his writings, Dr. Cronin continued his work of healing. Dr. Cronin had an experience happen to him prior to his retirement from the medical profession. It's an experience that Dr. Cronin told that needs to be rito. Often it's the story of a young nurse who was put in charge of a little boy brought into the hospital suffering from diphtheria. The child's throat was choked with membrane, and he was given only a slight chance to live. A tube was inserted into the boy's throat to help him breathe. It was the young nurse's job to systematically clean the tube so that it would not become blocked, thereby cutting off the boy's breathing. As the young nurse sat beside the boy, tired and sleepy, she accidentally dozed off. She awakened to find the tube had become blocked. Instead of following her instructions, the nurse bolted in panic. Hysterically, she called the doctor out of his sleep. But by the time the doctor got to the young boy, he was dead. Dr. Cronin was angry beyond expression that a child should die so needlessly by such blundering, inexcusable negligence. Of course, the nurse's career was through. She didn't deserve another chance. That night, Dr. Cronin went into his office, dipped his pen in ink, and wrote his recommendation to the board demanding her immediate expulsion. He called her in and read it with a voice trembling with resentment and anger. She stood there in pitiful silence. A tall, thin, gawky Welsh girl. She nearly fainted with shame and remorse. Well, have you nothing to say for yourself? Asked Dr. Cronin in a harsh voice. There was more silence. And then came a stammering plea. Give me, Give me another chance. Well, Dr. Cronin was shocked. Certainly he had no thought of doing that. She'd made a mistake, an unforgivable mistake. There was nothing to do but punish her. He ordered her to leave the room, sealed his report, left it on his desk, and went to bed. But that night, he could not sleep. He kept hearing some words from the dark distance. The words came easing from the stillness of the night. Forgive us our trespasses. How often that word comes to us and how much we need forgiveness. How many times we make mistakes, unforgivable mistakes. And we need another chance. Consider the plight of the world if there was no source of forgiveness. No cross, no Christ. The next morning, Dr. Cronin went to his desk and tore up the report. In the years that followed, he watched as this slim, nervous girl became the head of a large hospital and one of the most honored nurses in all England. Forgiveness. It's a grand word. Practice it. Practice it often.

This has been my turn with Don Wildmon

>> Tim Wildmon: This has been my turn with Don Wildmon. A production of the American Family Association.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all of your heart. Jeremiah.

>> Tim Wildmon: 29:13.

>> Ed Vitagliano: American Family Radio.

>> Tim Wildmon: This is Today's Issues.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's Issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of Today's Issues.

84 confirmed dead as a result of Central Texas flooding; dozens still missing

>> Tim Wildmon: Welcome back, everybody, to Today's Issues. Today's issue is the name of this program. Thank you for listening to afr, Tim, Ed and Fred. And we've been discussing, obviously, the number one news story in the world, at least in the United States, and that is the flooding, in south, Central Texas. The Guadalupe. Guadalupe River. And, we have. You've no doubt heard the story. 84 people now confirmed dead as a result of this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: CNN has it up to 89 now.

>> Tim Wildmon: 89. And a lot of people missing and.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, dozens still missing.

>> Tim Wildmon: It's missing. And, it happened so fast. The waters rose 27ft. That's nearly three store. 25. 27ft. That's nearly three stories of a building in 45 minutes, which seems impossible to happen, but go ahead.

>> Fred Jackson: We've got, a bit of audio here from the Texas AG Commissioner, Sid Miller. he is reacting to this, but to Give another example of the amount of water in such a short period of time. Just listen to this, folks. At number six.

>> Ed Vitagliano: We've lost hundreds of miles of fencing, you know, barns, all kinds of, buildings, structures. we found livestock, cattle in the tops of trees. We, haven't. You know, we're still so focused on search and rescue of the over 40 people that are still unaccounted for, that we haven't even had time to start calculating the agriculture loss. But it's very devastating to try to put this in perspective. Within a 24 hour period, there was enough water came down the Guadalupe river through Kerrville that would equal the water going through Niagara Falls in a month and a half. That's just stunning. just picture that.

>> Fred Jackson: If you've ever seen pictures or been at the Niagara Falls, a month and a half of water going with that. That's what happened at the Guadalupe River.

>> Ed Vitagliano: In 24 hours.

>> Fred Jackson: In 24 hours.

>> Tim Wildmon: So do we know the inches of rainfall that fell up?

>> Fred Jackson: there said that that started that. It's probably out there. I don't have that information.

>> Tim Wildmon: Just curious. all right, well, we just ask people to pray for the families. I know people will, especially our listeners. Ah, pray for the families, of these.

Central Texas flooding was caused by extreme rainfall, according to experts

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay, so I'm looking this up. It says the catastrophic flooding in Central Texas was caused by extreme rainfall, with some areas receiving over 15 inches of rain in just a few hours. Okay, that's stunning. Specifically, Mason reported 15.6 inches. San Angelo registered 12.7.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's hurricane.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And other parts of the region, including Streeter, Texas, more than 20 inches of rain fell.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's hurricane level. You know, when the hurricane comes ashore and they say the, you know, it's going to dump 10 inches here in two hours or three hours. That's what we're talking about here. Because that was a freak weather pattern. Because as you say, Fred, it must have just sat there, stalled, installed. It didn't go anywhere. Just, you know, usually storms move in and out, right? Or move especially other areas of the Southwest or dissipate. In this case, it just sat there on top of the same area. And because that, that kind of rainfall would be.

>> Fred Jackson: That's.

>> Tim Wildmon: I don't know how much they get a year there. I'm guessing maybe 30 inches. And you're telling me half that fell in just a few hours. So.

>> Fred Jackson: And keep in mind too, the victims are not just folks from Texas. we have a story on our website right now. Young Alabama student, a grandparent and a camp director were among those killed in the Texas floods. So people from Louisiana were camping there, Alabama, other places.

>> Tim Wildmon: So this, this is a popular area for vacationers.

>> Fred Jackson: I've never been there myself, but obviously it is a beautiful area.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right. I did, I did look up the, average question. Annual rain in annual rainfall in central Texas. an average of 27 inches of rainfall annually.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So 15 is more than half what they would get per year. Just a few hours in just that amount of time.

Tim Westerlund: It's human nature to want God to stop tragedies

>> Tim Wildmon: let me ask you this back to the theological question here. we were talking before the break, and again, I'm no theologian. I'm just, I was just, given my reading of the scripture and life experiences. What I thought about, you know, quote, why God allowed this to happen. Did you want to add anything to that?

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, I was. All I was going to say was. And I'm no theologian either. And theologians are important. Some people don't.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, they are.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They're important to have that kind of broad and deep perspective. The, only thing I was going to say is that it is human nature. And we get this from the book of Job, okay? A righteous man who questions and complains to God about what has befallen him. And all I was going to say is that we, we. It is human nature to say, why didn't God stop this terrible thing from happening? But when you try to put, fences around that and you try to get specific and you start kind of drilling down and saying, well, what are you, what are you wanting God to stop? You find out that, that, that that pool of things you want to not happen just keeps growing and growing pools. A bad metaphor under the circumstances. But, we want sex trafficking to stop. We want murder, we want sex crimes, we want natural disasters. Cancer. We know. Why did cancer take so and so and, and, and I'm not blaming people for complaining and crying out they want a solution. And what Robert Jeffers says, I think is, you know, we played his, that clip that he, when he addressed this on Fox is. And to your point, it's clear that God in, in this world, this universe we live in is not, or at least most times is not going to stop these things from the natural consequences of, of. Of the world in which. The world in which we live, disasters. Now, human beings, God gives them wisdom and listen, we all, we all spend time glued to our weather, channel or our local news when a big major storm is coming to find out if there are tornadoes touching ground. we get these warnings. You can get warnings on your Phone. There are advancements against diseases. So God does bestow upon humanity the wisdom to develop tools to mitigate some of these disasters. But the truth is it is only going to be in the new heavens and the new earth when this kind of suffering stops and ends. The people in Ukraine, why didn't God stop Russia from invading? Okay, what I'm saying is you, you let me use a different metaphor. You start throwing things into that basket of, things you want God to stop or prevent from happening. And how about, how about my family lost its business? You know, we lost our business. we went bankrupt because of medical expenses. Our health has returned, but we're bankrupt. Why didn't God stop? You will fill that basket up and many more baskets. And it's clear that this is the world we live in. And most of the time God does not intervene. And to your point, you can ask him when you get there, and you can try to look at the scriptures and say, well, I think we have some answers here. But there is God's answer to Job at the end of the book. He says, basically, you're not smart enough for me to explain all this to you. And Job is known for his faith, not just the complaining. He's known for his fate. Because at the end of the book, he said, all right, that's going to be good enough for me. I serve a loving God and I am not smart enough to question him and put him in the docket. That's, that's all.

>> Tim Wildmon: And that's what heaven, what, what heaven will be like is there are going to be no tragedies. There are going to be no right death. Death will be non existent. There are, there will be no disease, on earth. Yes, all those things will happen, will occur and, but that's the, you know, that ah, we long for.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, that's what we're crying out for when we're saying why didn't God. There are people, I'm sure, that wept. They didn't even have a, they didn't even have a dog in the fight, so to speak. They didn't have any family members that died in Central Texas over the weekend. But they probably wept at this. And people crying out and asking these questions of God. What they're really crying out for is what you just said, Tim. They are crying out for a time. And that will come for all those who trust Jesus. A time when this stuff doesn't exist anymore because God didn't create us for this.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's what Robert Jefferson said earlier.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He didn't create us for this. This wasn't. This wasn't what God wanted for. For us.

The Bible says there will be a new heaven and a new earth

>> Tim Wildmon: So is that what the Bible means when it says there'll be a new heaven and a new earth, a new Jerusalem, all those things, and.

>> Ed Vitagliano: The earth will be remade? The Bible says we're not giving. Given very many details. This earth, this earth and, and heaven actually comes down to join with this creation. That's the picture. I think I'm, again, not a theologian of the new Jerusalem, coming down to a remade earth. Second Peter talks about the earth, and all of its works being burned up and a new heavens and a new earth, and, and it's a world in which righteousness will dwell and, and God will wipe away every tear. And there will be no heat, no sun beating down on us. No one will be hungry. There'll be no division, no war. All these kinds of promises.

>> Tim Wildmon: No winner. Well, just on a selfish level.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: I'm kind of hoping.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I think probably no extremes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: listen, that, that was a great explanation because there is a. You know, we use, Fred, the word fallen.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: A lot of people who aren't Christians or don't know what that word means oftentimes when we use the word fallen. What do you mean, fallen world?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, a world in which, bad things happen to all of us. Doesn't matter what skin color you have, doesn't matter what ethnicity you have, doesn't.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Matter how good you are.

>> Tim Wildmon: Good you are. The Bible says it rains on the just and the unjust.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so. So we, we live in a fallen world. Yes. God does intervene sometimes to prevent things that would otherwise happening from happening. We've all seen people who've been healed miraculously from disease, but guess what? Use the word miraculously. That doesn't happen often.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's the reason it's called a miracle. But we do know for the Christian, that once you've received Christ as your savior and you've repented of you, you've repented of your sin and received Christ as your savior, Correct me if I'm wrong here, then we know that our eternity when we do die, and all of us will die one day for whatever reason, whether it's in a flood or whether we're 95 in a nursing home, that we leave this, this body and we go to be in this place with God and other believers called Heaven. That's, that's why Jesus died on the cross.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: To give us this opportunity, this chance to, to be Saved from our sin and to experience life abundant and life eternal.

>> Fred Jackson: God never intended for this mess. He intended for the Garden of Eden.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: But what God did. God gave mankind the choice to obey or disobey. And what did man do?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Man disobeyed.

>> Tim Wildmon: And the woman.

>> Fred Jackson: And the woman.

>> Tim Wildmon: I just want to remind.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes. I mean, it was a team,

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Team effort.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Blunder. Yes, Team blunder. That's a good nickname for Adam and Eve.

>> Fred Jackson: So, and, and so the whole story of scripture is God setting things straight.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: And the largest part of that was to send his only son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins. And so that we have this home in heaven.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And the, and the, the resurrection of the world.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: If I can use it that way.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This kind of new heavens and new earth comes through the work of Christ.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's Romans 8. Talks about, where God pours out his grace even to a fallen planet and universe.

>> Fred Jackson: Well, you know, I've read this on the weekend somewhere. I wish I could quote the author, but. You know, for those who at times like this would doubt God's love, God put himself on a cross to die for our sins, to pay the price for our sins. What, what more could you want in a description of how much God loves us?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: M. And he will fulfill his intention because someday there will be that new heaven, new earth. And by the way, there will not be no snow because there's no mention of snow in the Garden of Eden.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, you know, I know that's a sad issue, but it is something I.

>> Fred Jackson: Think about as a Canadian who hates snow.

Christians have hope when bad stuff happens through Jesus, right

>> Tim Wildmon: All right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: One other thing too. Had the Son of God not come. Okay. All this bad stuff would have happened anyway.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, so Christians have hope when bad stuff happens, the hope that comes through Christ. So I, I just, I just tossed this one thing in. When my mom.

>> Tim Wildmon: I got one thing.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay, okay, okay. When my mom was dying of cancer, she was just a, just a phenomenal woman of God, prayer warrior, witness to everybody. Embarrassed my dad all the time because she would just witness to everyone, you know, waiters, waitresses, whatever. But she was dying of cancer. And, and, and, and she was struggling with that because she was asking God to heal her. And it was becoming evident to her that if he was going to, he would have probably done it. and all, all I could say to her was because she smoked early in her life before she came to Christ. Okay, I, I said, mom, I don't have answers. but I do know this, that, probably what you had done to your body, you would have had this cancer anyway. I mean, this is the natural consequence, Right. Of abusing the body. I wasn't condemning her. I was saying and what Christ. The, the important thing is that you have Jesus in your life to walk with you through it.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And that is a comfort. You can't buy that comfort. And she, and she had peace, you know, with what she, you know, is going through when she passed away. But sometimes these, these things would have all happened anyway had Jesus not come. The humanity has hope now though, that they can escape this through the Son of God hanging on a cross.

>> Tim Wildmon: You know, Amen to what you just said. And that's a lot of people identify what you just talked about in terms of having to walk through life themselves or with their family members through disease or sickness or. I know we have one of our staff whose wife, fell and had an accident and got paralyzed.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Partly from the way that waist down. Well, he's a. Works here at afa, you know, serving the Lord.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: But this tragedy befell them. But they're doing the best that they can. Right. But they haven't lost faith in God.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: So here's the thing too is, at the end of the day, God is still God no matter what.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: So you can drive yourself crazy. And I know people who have, trying to question God or to say, why did this happen? Why did that happen?

>> Ed Vitagliano: And mocking Christians for their faith.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right. Which kind of is a mystery to me. If you don't believe in God, why do you mock those who do?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Because they're. You're saying you're mocking them for believing in God. You don't even believe God exists. Why, why do you care whether I do?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right, right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Because if I want to, if I want to pray to a fairy tale.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. We're all just animals.

>> Tim Wildmon: Why do you care?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: What I think the answer to that is, most of them deep down inside do.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Do know there's a God in their. And they hate him.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: because that's the nature of sinful man, is to rebel against God. But anyway, I just wanted to say, you know, at the end of the day, like you're saying earlier, you can question a thousand different ways why things happen. You're not going to, you're not going to bad things who happen to quote good people. You're not going to have a satisfactory answer.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Huh? you're not, you're not, you're not going to have a satisfactory answer. You may have an answer. You're not going to have a satisfactory answer in terms of out. No. I want justice.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: You know, as I see it, I want justice in this world. so. But at the end of the day, as I said, I use that metaphor a few minutes ago, God is still God and we're not.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: And so if you believe what the Bible says, the ultimate destination is heaven, where as we described it earlier. And so that that's why Jesus Christ came to give us forgiveness of our sins. So that when finish this life on this earth, we go to heaven for eternity. That's the big picture.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So it's big.

There are things Christians can pray and ask God for following this tragedy

We got any more metaphors fellas?

>> Fred Jackson: I mean.

>> Tim Wildmon: No, no, I think we've used several here. I'm out to. Good one. Yes, I'm Anyway.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. At the, at the end of the day.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: so we got a triple at.

>> Tim Wildmon: The end of the day. Go ahead.

>> Ed Vitagliano: At the end of the day, these poor children and many adults, are, have have died. And Christians can pray in faith to God to help bring healing and comfort the family members that are left behind. And if there's still some surviving prey folks that rescuers will find them. And so there are still things that we can focus on.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, we, many of us have these questions, but there are things we can pray and ask God for because Romans 8 also says that God does bring good out of even terrible situations. So pray that God will bring good out of this catastrophe.

Ukraine is being bombarded by Russian aircraft right now

>> Tim Wildmon: One other, one other question, or statement, I guess, slash. you mentioned the Old Testament story of Job.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And what happened to him? And you know, he had to suffer through a lot of bad things and he's going, why God is this happening to family members? So you flip over to the New Testament. Is there any greater character other than Jesus Christ than Paul in his story and what he did? We. I mean I was reading this morning in Ephesians, written by Paul.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Just remarkable life that he lived and the way that he, he initiated the spread of the Christianity, into the Mediterranean.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Greater Mediterranean area there during his time and the travels that he took. Guess what? All that he did. And did he not end up being crucified?

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's the he, the tradition says.

>> Tim Wildmon: I don't know about crucified.

>> Ed Vitagliano: church tradition says that Paul was beheaded in Rome. Peter was crucified upside down.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Yes, that's. Was thinking about, I was thinking about. According to tradition, it's not in the scripture script, but. But there are, accounts in the scripture in the New Testament of people, who were martyrs.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Fred Jackson: Oh, yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Paul was beaten countless times. And.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Paul could have gone, okay. God, why was I shipwrecked?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. I'm quitting because you let me be shipwrecked.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. Are.

>> Tim Wildmon: You let me be beaten. Are flogged. I read the other day, and he.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, he was flogged, meaning 39 lashes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Okay. So I mean, what I'm saying is this is a giant of the faith. Nobody was closer to God than Paul in the Bible that we know of. And yet here he had to suffer the consequences of.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Of, hatred of God.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hatred of God. See? So, you can't. You can't let your faith be conditional on whether life's always rosy.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Or not. I know that people don't. Most people listening to us, or they.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Expect some trouble, but not on this level. And that's. That's what. That's what tests faith, is you get this super horrific tragedy that is outside what you think should be normal. We should experience this kind of, possibility of bad things happening. But when you get way out here, like this flood with grandkids or if.

>> Tim Wildmon: You live in Kiev.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Ukraine right now.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: We haven't even mentioned that story because we've been mentioning this. Kiev, Ukraine, is just being bombarded. It's a beautiful, great city. Brace talked about it. The Russians, Putin are just bombarding them. Now. They were holding back, I think, on Kiev in particular, but now they're just bombarding that. Now Ukraine's giving it back to them. But I'm just saying, if you live. If you live in Kiev and you're. And you're having a gun, you have to. Now you're worried about dying in a bombing.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: You're wondering what we just talked.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Or you're a, refugee in Poland from Kiev, and you're thinking, I'm never going home. I have to start all over here.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So.

Fred: Is there a good book on pain that you recommend

>> Tim Wildmon: All right. is there a good book you recommend on this subject? I can't think of one.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Ah, I'm not sure off the top of my head. a good one. You're talking about. About.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. These Questions of Life.

>> Ed Vitagliano: C.S. lewis wrote a. A book about the problem of pain. I read that. I read that many years ago. It's a short book. C.S. lewis, the Problem of Pain.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's the title of it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And any.

>> Tim Wildmon: He has an application for what we're talking about.

>> Ed Vitagliano: it's been 20 years since I've read it, but it's excellent. It's C.S. lewis, and he. But he talks a lot about. Even talks about animals and the suffering of animals and, things like that. So it's. It's a very short book. but that's been one of his most popular.

>> Tim Wildmon: All right. thanks, Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: You betcha.

>> Tim Wildmon: For Fred providing us with the, research and the news stories for this hour, I'm Tim with Ed, and we'll be back with Steve Paisley Jordan. And Steve's got, some updated information on the, story out of, the. With the flooding in Texas. We'll be back momentarily.

>> Fred Jackson: Stay with us.

>> Tim Wildmon: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Tim and Ed talk with Fred on top news headlines of the day including a discussion on the flooding that happened in Texas over the weekend.