National Conference on Christian Apologetics and Evangelism coming to EDU

>> Ed Vitagliano: In a time where the essence of marriage and the family unit is being reshaped and challenged, comes an event that aims to integrate biblical truth into a discipleship model, forging stronger bonds within your family through a coherent, reasoned defense of your faith. For more information and to reserve your spot, visit us at SCS EDU National Conference. the steadfast National Conference on Christian Apologetics and Evangelism, where faith meets reason, culture and community. Welcome to Today's Issues. Join us for the next hour as we offer a Christian response to the issues of the day.

Today's Issues features Ed Mantagliano and Chris Woodward

Here's your host, Ed Mantagliano and ah, welcome to, Today's Issues. It is Thursday, September 18th. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. This week I'm joined in studio by Tony Vitagliano. Good morning to you, Tony.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Good morning.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Chris Woodward is joining us. Good morning, Chris.

>> Chris Woodward: Good morning.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And we are doing some, continuing a few adjustments. So you are seated about as far away from me as you can get.

>> Chris Woodward: We are not practicing social distancing for those watching on Facebook.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, we are actually six feet. Absolutely.

>> Chris Woodward: We're gonna like it's 2020.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And you know who's even further away is Dr. Alex McFarland who's in South Carolina. Good morning, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Good morning everybody. Good to be with you all.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, it could still come through the iPad when I 2020 Covid could come through.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You had to wear your mask even.

>> Ed Vitagliano: On Facebook says even in your car. You know, I have, I don't want to go into the whole.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to open up that deep.

>> Ed Vitagliano: The deep well of COVID But I still see people periodically driving in in their car with a mask. You know, I used to just get frustrated at folks like that. Now I just feel sadness because they are clearly scared out of their minds.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Of getting something and dying from it. So I don't know. It takes all kinds. I do, I do feel compassion for them. Because you never could. I don't know what the thinking was to begin with. See, I didn't want to go down this path, but I am. you couldn't infect yourself. That's why they were wearing the mask. And now they're continuing to do it. But anyway, my grandkids are gonna.

>> Chris Woodward: Find my unborn have yet to be born. Long from being born. Grandkids are gonna find pictures someday in the attic and be like, what are they wearing?

>> Tony Vitagliano: I'm probably gonna find a mask somewhere to shove down in the couch cushion.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, you know, we still do have a big box of those masks that were the really the worst possible kind. Yeah, if you were trying to prevent yourself from getting some, communicable disease, I just don't know what to do with them. when do you use these things? So anyway, I said I wasn't going to do it, but I did it and now it's done.

ABC and Disney have pulled Jimmy Kimmel Live following Charlie Kirk comments

All right, Chris, let's go ahead and crank up the news, Crank up the volume.

>> Chris Woodward: We're going to begin with a story about abc, which is owned by Disney. Those two companies have pulled Jimmy Kimmel Live. And definitely after the host Charlie Kirk comments earlier this week. I've got the audio in question from Jimmy Kimmel. here is what he had to say about, the Charlie Kirk shooting and the man police say, was responsible for taking Kirk's life.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Clip 1 We had some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they.

>> Md Perkins: Can to score political points from it.

>> Chris Woodward: So in a monologue of what is supposed to be a late night comedy show, Jimmy Kimmel once again was political. I would call him a bully because he oftentimes makes fun of people and gets paid a lot of money for it. But nonetheless, apparently it was a bridge too far. And ABC Disney decided to pull his show, based on those comments, a company called nexstar, which is a media group that owns hundreds of television stations, they actually kind of forced Disney or ABC's hand here because earlier in the week, Nexstar Media Group, which again owns a bunch of TV stations, announced, you know, Kimmel went too far here and they were going to not air his show on ABC stations owned by nexstar. Somebody that commented on that this morning is FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr, who says nexstar did the right thing here.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Clip two of, late night shows. Something's gone seriously awry there. They went from going for applause, from.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Laugh lines to applause lines. They went from being court gestures that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Would make fun of everybody in power.

>> Tony Vitagliano: To being court clerics and enforcing a very narrow political ideology.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And nexstar, as you noted, stood up and said, look, we have the license.

>> Tony Vitagliano: And we don't want to run this anymore.

>> Ed Vitagliano: We don't think it serves the interests of our communities. Well, Alex, I think we kind of decided in our story, meeting this morning in preparation for this show, that it seems likely that ABC was simply wanting, they were biding their time knowing that at some point Jimmy Kimmel would say something that would be, the justification for pulling him. But they probably wanted to pull him for months, because I'm guessing, like Stephen Colbert, this has been a show that's probably been losing a lot of money.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I, doubt we'll ever really know, but they probably had been looking for a reason to pull the plug on a show that. A comedy show that wasn't funny, an entertainment show that was not entertaining. And just this endless hacking barrage against conservatives, traditional values, Christian citizens and voters. You know, the thing about it, in 2024, Trump had the most ethnically diverse voter base. huge margins of Asian voters voted for Trump. Bigger, margins. You know, it's of black voters. You know, statistically, Trump did way better than Kamala Harris. And so, I mean, you think about it, Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel in just constantly mocking Trump and conservatism. I mean, this is the vast majority of the American electorate, and I guess it just, it's a math problem. Why continue to fund, someone who's just mocking, and making fun of the vast majority of American citizens and voters?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Chris, were you able to get the, comments from President Trump this summer after Colbert? I had sent something to you. you may not have been able to get the sound.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, I had a meeting in my office.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay, that's fine.

>> Chris Woodward: I can pull it up, though.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, that's all right.

President Trump predicted that Jimmy Kimmel would be next to be fired

President Trump actually predicted, after Stephen Colbert went off the air, actually predicted that Jimmy Kimmel was next. Tony, let me just ask you this. I always thought Jimmy Kimmel was a mean comic. Jimmy Fallon leans left, but he's kind of goofy and he's, I think, a little funnier than Jimmy Kimmel. I thought that Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert were, were mean in there. They were cutting, they were insulting in their comedy. As, as Alex says, this is kind of a math problem. When you set out to make political comments, the centerpiece of your comedy for a show like Jimmy Kimmel, you are going to immediately lose half your audience. If you do it over and over again, you lose half your audience, the half that disagrees with your political slant. And then you're going to go up against already the, the trends when it comes to entertainment away from the major networks. So you're going to be losing people there. And then if you're doing the same thing over and over again, comedy wise, you just get boring. And I think this is why Colbert and Kimmel have lost have bled so many viewers.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, I found the, the statement from President Trump over the summer. Would you like me to read it?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Sure, go ahead.

>> Chris Woodward: Okay. on July 18, 2025, President, Donald Trump took to his truth social platform to say, I absolutely love that Colbert got fired. His talent was even less than his ratings. I hear Jimmy Kimmel is next. Has even less talent than Colbert. Exclamation point. Greg Gutfeld is better than all of these combined, including the moron on NBC who ruined the once great Tonight Show. Talking about Seth Meyers. And actually that's, Jimmy Fallon.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, Jimmy Fallon.

>> Chris Woodward: I get my late night hoes.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, I mean, this is, this is another thing that, that kind of irritates me. Well, I, I'm not, I can't say I'm very sad about this. I'll put that in as that's the nice, the nice, like, passive Christian response. I'm not sad about it. for those of you don't know, Jimmy Kimmel, had a, has a very sordid past when it comes to comedy. Meaning a lot of his previous work that he did, was very crass, very, non PC, some stuff, outright.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He did stuff in blackface.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yes, yes, exactly. very demeaning towards women. Misogynistic. And then what he does, then this is what a lot of people in Hollywood do. They kind of pull up the ladder behind them and they don't, they don't have to give an account for anything they've done in their past. But, by golly, you better have your act together, or they will start wagging the finger at you in a heartbeat, which is what he's been doing to Trump for the last 10 years. Wagging his finger at him, calling him all kind of names, making fun of him, when he's never had to give an account for the things that he has said and that he has done. And now this is kind of, it's kind of come full circle back on him. I mean, I remember you can go back and watch the clip of him after Trump won in 2024. He was saying, let's be honest, it was a terrible night last night. Listen, off all the groups, that would be negatively impacted. And he even said it was a bad night for everyone who voted for him too. You just don't realize it yet. Now, does that sound like a late night comedy show host?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Why not? Why not bring. If your audience, half your audience is depressed because Trump won again, why not try to make them Laugh.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You know, don't get out there and start crying because Trump won.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Did he literally cry?

>> Tony Vitagliano: He got choked up. Yeah. You can go watch. You can see the. Whether it was real or not, I don't know. But yeah, he got choked up about it. And I'll say this, and I've been going on for a while, but, does anybody remember Gina Carano also got fired? Disney also fired Gina Carano for making comments far it wasn't even incendiary. She was just making comparisons about people being hated for their political views, drawing comparisons to, you know, the Nazis going, after Jews and stating, you know, historical fact. but she was also fired for it. So, I can't, can't say I'm surprised. you know, Kimmel makes $15 million. Last time I checked him, he was making $15 million a year, to do a comedy show where there's no comedy. I can't say there probably wasn't a financial reason behind it either.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Alex, let me just ask you this and then we'll, we'll move on. Unless you got anything else on Jimmy Kimmel.

Disney went from being woke and punishing conservatives to launching Jimmy Kimmel

Chris, let me just ask you, Alex, it. Because Tony brings out a really good point on Gina Carano. Carano, right. And I think she actually sued, didn't she?

>> Tony Vitagliano: She did sue and she.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't know what came of that. Yeah, a lawsuit. But this indicates that in a short amount of time, abc, Disney, abc, which produced the Mandalorian, very popular, Star wars spin off show, that in a very short amount of time, Disney, ABC has switched tracks here. They have gone from, being woke and punishing conservatives now to launching, Jimmy Kimmel. Now this is.

>> Tony Vitagliano: That was in 2021. Gina Carano was fired.

>> Ed Vitagliano: 2021. So this, I'm not sure exactly what's going on now. As far as I know, Jimmy Kimmel has been booted. I don't know that it's permanent. Maybe permanent is probably permanent. But, what's happened here? What is happening? Is there a cultural shift? And if so, do you think it's because big corporations are paying attention to the fact that Donald Trump won the popular vote? it's hard to believe that this is a change of heart or mind on the part of these big companies, but something's happening.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. You know, I don't know the connection between Disney's television interests and Disney's movie interests, but several months ago, not, that I sought it, but I found myself doing a ton of national media about the woke snow White remake. Yeah, right now. Now get this. Disney Lost total estimates $410 million on Snow White. And the funny thing before it was released, the. The star. I'm trying to remember who they had starring in Snow White. but it was a PC person of. It was a non Caucasian in the lead role of Snow White. I forget. Rachel, Zegler.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: And she was in all of her media interviews, berating the families that would see this. actually berating. She, said the story was lame. You know, this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: The original story of Snow.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so you've got this product rollout and you've got your. The face, the voice. The star is just basically doing an eye roll. Like, why do I have to do lame story? And I'm, not gonna do Someday My Prince Will Come. Like a woman needs a man to show up and help her. I mean, and it was just like this, you know, comedy, of errors, all this. And so Disney loses 410 million on the woke Snow White reboot. Right?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: And. And I don't know if the film and TV divisions overlap at all, but I guess my point. Point is they're finding out the old axiom, go woke, go broke. And like, you know, Jimmy Kimmel. Let me say this, and I'm not giving an endorsement to all these people, but like Johnny Carson and David Letterman, and I'm not a fan of Letterman. He's a lefty.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Alex McFarland: Or Conan o', Brien, who I do appreciate a little bit because occasionally Conan would bring in his Catholic values, his marriage. At least Carson and Conan were kind of intelligent comedy, whereas you've got like an Andrew Dice Clay or a Jimmy Kimmel. And I'm going way back with Andrew Dice Clay. These people were just mean and crass and really nothing intellectually or morally redeeming about it all, you know, And I guess Disney is finding out, gee, we. We lose money with just these, bullies. Maybe we're not going to fund this.

Chris: Disney went woke with some of their Marvel offerings after Frozen

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, and I don't want to. I don't want to just park here. let me just toss this out and then we'll move on to what else Chris might have. But, I know that I'm a Marvel. Was a Marvel movie, ah, fan up until end game. If you're a Marvel fan, you. You know what I'm talking about. And then they sort of went woke. They had started. Some of that wokeness had started bleeding into the last two movies they made. And I think they've lost a ton of money.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Oh, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: On their, Marvel offerings after that, where a lot of wokeness and political correctness kind of creeped into their, writing and their productions. Yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Ah, in a capitalist society, the free market's gonna have its way one way or another.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tony Vitagliano: I mean, people are gonna start with their wallets.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: And you cannot, you can only ignore reality for so long.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And the bottom line for companies is making money. Yeah. And as Alex pointed out, Snow White didn't. And that wasn't the, that wasn't the first flop for Disney. They had started getting themselves in trouble. there was, I forget what, a couple of movies where they almost had a, like a, a homosexual, kind of. This is a children's programming character. And they backed out of it. But I think the Buzz Lightyear movie, they still had some kind of a transgender thing. So they started losing money and people started, as Tony said, voting with their wallet. Alex, we'll let you have the last word on this.

Alex: Christians need to be involved in creating good art because worldview does show through

>> Alex McFarland: Ed, and I'm going to show my ignorance about comics here, but was Marvel the franchise that was associated with, the writer Stand Lee?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. that's right.

>> Alex McFarland: I had heard that he became a Christian before he died. I think he died seven or eight years ago. But at any rate, it's interesting how Marvel and, and how woke they got. And if they have stayed or will stay woke, I don't know because I, I don't know much at all about comics. I really don't. But I remember, you know, D.C. and Superman, truth, justice and the American Way and, and Marvel. I mean, at one time weren't comics pretty wholesome?

>> Ed Vitagliano: You have to go back a long time for that. in the 80s and, and then in the 90s, they, they went really edgy. Yeah, edgy. And woke. And not just, not just woke, in terms of, you know, issues like race, but on issues like homosexuality, where they had the first, some of the first homosexual superheroes, immigration. I think there was a very controversial, comic. I don't know that it was Superman or what, but where Superman was fighting against those wanting to lock down the border. So anyway, so a lot of that crept into comics, I would say, before it did into movies and and then. And comics, I will say. And I'm not sure exactly when this started. There was always a lot of emphasis on a woman's figure, let me just put it that way. But they became, almost dirty. I haven't bought a comic in, in forever, but I did write some stories on it for the, AFA Journal, our magazine, as it was known years ago, because they had really kind of gone off the deep end.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And, we're not kid friendly.

>> Alex McFarland: This is why Christians need to be involved in the arts.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: When I worked for Focus, I wrote a lot for Plugged in magazine, which was kind of.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: trying to help families make appropriate entertainment choices. And, you know, I would say to parents, we need to help our children have discernment about what entertainment and media they, ingest. But this is why, you know, in, music, literature, film, the arts, Christians need to be involved in creating good art because the worldview does show through.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, it does.

>> Chris Woodward: There was an alternate storyline of, some Superman comics, in which they kind of flipped the script and, Superman was sent and his little capsule landed in the Soviet Union, and he was raised a Communist, and he ends up becoming, like, the leader of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union. They've actually made that into an animated movie.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. I think Alex is exactly right. The solution to the. There's several ways that Christians can engage in this. First of all, parents need to be involved in what their kids, ingest. And you have to draw lines and you have to stick to it. but Christians also need, as Alex said, to be involved in the arts, because arts and to a lesser extent, entertainment. But certainly art is meant to express the image of God through the creativity that God blesses people with. When I say entertainment a little bit lesser, nobody has to be entertained. Okay. so that is an option. That's a luxury. If you can find something to laugh at or something to watch, we don't have to have that to survive. but most of us do. Like, and whether it's sports or movies or television shows, what have you, so we've got to be paying attention to what we're. What we're watching and listening to. Because I've taught on this in my Sunday school class that I have taught in the past. You wouldn't allow a false teacher into your living room and sit your family down and say, go ahead, tell us something that's not true. Preach to us about the lies of the devil. No responsible parent is going to allow a false teacher, a known false teacher, to have two hours with their kids. But when it comes to entertainment, parents do that all the time. They let someone into their home to talk to their kids and to preach to their kids for two hours, three hours, whatever it might be, risking their souls. most parents do that, out of ignorance. But the time for that is over. Your kid can be turned from someone who loves Jesus into someone who doesn't.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Fairly quickly.

>> Chris Woodward: I have a daughter that's talking about going to college. And honestly, after working here for 15 years, it scares me to death.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Chris Woodward: Ah, like, that, God forbid, I have no reason to think that, you know, she would go down that road. But a lot of people that Alex has talked to and ministered to through exploring the Word, a lot of people have talked about, I don't know what happened, but my kid went off to college and came back completely different person.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, Alex, we got about 60 seconds before the break. You want to address that? Do you see that when you speak on college campuses?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. I mean, it's all about worldview. It really, really is. And I think that we need to, from toddlerhood up, help children understand, yes, the love of Jesus, but the word of God and biblical worldview.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Biblical worldview, that's right.

American Family Radio hosts discuss today's issues on national network

All right. Well folks, you're listening to today's issues on, the American Family Radio national Network. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week. Tony BATTAGLIANO, Chris Woodward, Dr. Alex McFarland are joining me as we discuss the issues of today. Folks, you ought to kind of bookmark that last 30 minutes. 25 minutes we had that. That is why American Family Radio exists. We talk about what's happening, but we talk about why it's important and what the context is of things like entertainment and what the context is for Christian worldview, but also for protecting your family. So, when we come back, Maryland. Perkins, director, he's, a producer at American Family Studios. He's directed films that you have heard of that we have produced here at American Family Association. He's going to be in talking about free speech. Want to make sure you join us. Don't miss that. We'll be right back.

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>> Ed Vitagliano: encounter of the best kind in her womb, she will choose life. Preborn's networks of clinics provide hope, love, free ultrasounds and the gospel in action across America. This is Ed Vitagliano. Will you join PreBorn and AFR as we rescue 70,000 babies lives this year? For $28 you can sponsor an ultrasound and help Save a baby's life. To donate, dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250. Baby, baby. Or donate [email protected] afr that's preborn.com afr this is today's issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's Issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of, Today's Issues. And welcome back. Ed Battagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. This week, I'm joined by Tony Battagliano and Chris Woodward and Dr. Alex McFarland.

Maryland Perkins is director and producer at American Family Studios, Maryland

And now we want to welcome Maryland Perkins, who's a director and producer at American Family Studios, Maryland. It's been a while since I've been on TI with with you, but, welcome back.

>> Md Perkins: Yeah. Good to see you again.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, you're also, an outstanding writer. I should have mentioned that you've written one book. Two books.

>> Md Perkins: One book, Two more in the works.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. All right, you got, you got one. Are you tell us about, the one you wrote and what you're working on now before we get to the article that you wrote that is available on afn.net that we'll be discussing with you.

>> Md Perkins: Well, I wrote a book, I guess about three years ago now called Dangerous Affirmation, the Threat of Gay Christianity that deals with how the LGBT issue is coming to the church, how Christians can address it, the theological issues and the answers to the questions of the activists, as well as what is the ultimate push of getting the church to capitulate on these issues and to just go ahead and spoil it for you? The push is political. They want the church to be either political ally or to be silent on the issues of lgbt. And so that's what my book is about.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And what are you working on currently? You got maybe a little tease for the listeners?

>> Md Perkins: Well, if you've heard me on the radio before recently, it's probably in regards to Culture Warrior, our documentary about Don Wildmon and the battle for decency, which you can go to culturewarrior movie and watch that for free. But I'm working on two books related to the early history of afa, Don's battles, as well as the bigger picture of what patterns can we pull from Don's example, what is the history of this culture war and Christian's involvement in it from, from the 70s through, through to the today, really?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, you also did, in his image, that for a lot of our listeners who have seen that movie that is about a biblical view of human sexuality and gender. that's at. In his image dot movie. Culture Warrior Movie is the culture Warrior film, which is phenomenal. You just did a great job. And, and it was not an easy task collating tons of information that we'd had sitting around here in boxes and in filing cabinets, some of which by the way, for our listeners was on the verge of being thrown out because nobody knew what it was. And I think it was the Lord that brought that box of stuff to your attention. Some great stuff.

>> Md Perkins: It really was. Yeah. God's providence and the whole process.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, that's right.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Is there true. Is there an ah, eight track, Was there an eight track converter over the.

>> Chris Woodward: Cubicle you were working on?

>> Md Perkins: We had all kinds of archival materials.

>> Ed Vitagliano: To get that into.

>> Chris Woodward: I've never even held an eight track in my hand.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Well, you can. It's like a museum over there in that cubicle. All the different equipment they had.

Chris Perry: 80% of Americans agree that words are violence

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, so here's the article we want to talk to you about. And by the way, this is located, you'll find this [email protected] Chris, I'm guessing you've shared this on Facebook page. So there is a link to this article. It's by MD Perkins, with whom we're speaking. It's free speech, double standards and the assassination of Charlie Kirk. So why don't you tell us what this is, what you wrote about and why.

>> Md Perkins: Well, as I'm sure many of our listeners were feeling this as well, we were of course troubled by the events that actually happened. But even in addition to that, we were troubled by the response that many people were giving. Of course left wing activists were giving this, but also just people in your everyday life, people in your family, friends, people you went to college with, people you used to know growing up on their Facebook page, on their social media, either celebrating or finding some way to justify the murder of Charlie Kirk. And so I was really concerned how did we get to this point where we're finding excuses for and justifying murder? And as I was thinking about it, I kind of realized in recent years there's been this notion that's posed, which is this concept that words are violence. And so that's, that's really what I began to dig into with this article is to try and understand, how did this concept kind of come about. Because really, I mean there was a study that I found that the foundation for Individual Rights in Education fire in Oct. 24 found that 4 in 5Americans would agree with the statement in some capacity that words are violence. So 80% of Americans believe that words are in fact violence. And those who are most likely to agree with that are women, Gen Z, and Democrats. As it turns out, of the different classes of people that they were basing the survey on, those were the most likely to agree with that statement. And so what we're seeing is that speech that wounds feelings, that hurt somebody's feelings is being seen as equivalent to actions that harm someone's body. And that is a troubling development, that's going to impact not just the very notion of free speech and what that means, but it's also going to tend to silence any sort of differing opinion that would exist, especially when you start to frame it from this aspect. it really only limits Christian, the conservative Christian position on things and their ability to speak about it. And so, you know, that's where this article came from. You know, there were a lot of additional concerns with just the rise of the climate in our culture with like Rutgers university study from 2025 that said 56% of those who identify as left of center would say that the murder of Donald Trump is justified in some capacity. And 14.1% of those people would say that it is fully justified.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, let me, let me just ask you this and then, Alex and Tony may have questions or. Chris, when you say that the study you taught, the FIRE study that revealed that the people, the groups that are most sympathetic to the statement or the idea that words are violence or can be violence, you said women, Democrats, Gen Z, women I can understand simply because women are probably a little bit, this is a overgeneralization, maybe, but they're more, compassionate.

>> Md Perkins: Yeah. Okay, so nurturing, empathetic.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. They, they understand how words have hurt their kids. They. I'm not saying I agree with bullying.

>> Md Perkins: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But I can see where they would get sucked into this idea. Democrats I certainly understand because more and more that party is being taken over by, by radical leftist groups which use this idea that words can be violence, as you said, to bludgeon conservatives and Christians. Why Gen Z, though, is that related to growing up in broken homes or something or what?

>> Md Perkins: I think it's probably related to just growing up in an overall therapeutic culture that, prioritizes the individual. We could think of the philosophical understanding of expressive individualism that you are. That your true personhood comes out by how you express yourself. And so any attempt to qualify that or question that and like we're talking about words here. So it's any way that someone might speak against that, you know, so for example, to maybe, maybe this will be easier for people to hold on to. Why is it when a Christian says that he disagrees that homosexuality is good, how is that an attack on someone's personhood? But that's what's being assumed is that someone's sexual identity, self expression is the ultimate, barometer of who they truly are. And so to speak against that aspect of person is to actually be a personal attack on a person. And so that I think is the context of Gen Z and why they would be more susceptible to believing that words are violence is because, you know, any kind of words that might limit how someone might express themselves is to actually cut against their very personhood.

Thomas Jefferson said hate speech does not constitute physical violence

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, Alex, Tony, then Chris, somebody jump in?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, well, you know, Thomas Jefferson, when the whole concept of hate speech came up and this relates to really the intense debate on whether words are violence, Thomas Jefferson basically said that crimes, are prosecutable based on the action, not on the thoughts. Since we can never really know another person's thoughts. Long story short, the founders would have recoiled at the idea that speech is violence or hate, you know, that actions are prosecutable but a person's thoughts or philosophies or words themselves, do not constitute physical violence. And so, my point in sharing this is that I think the left wants to try to accuse words of being weapons to quell debate, really the free exchange of ideas and just debating issues because they know on the, on concepts, and presuppositions themselves, they would lose.

>> Md Perkins: Yeah, it completely shuts down debate. And that's kind of the troubling issue regarding free speech with all of this. It is intended to silence. Now ironically the left will also say that silence is violence. So there is a certain spectrum in which you were supposed to speak out and if you don't. So then they're also badgering people on the left to be more vocal, see something, say something.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, you mentioned, I like the way you put it that Gen Z is growing up in a therapeutic environment.

>> Chris Woodward: Hm.

>> Tony Vitagliano: So everybody is, everybody needs therapy. Everybody needs people, society. They're looking to society. They need to be affirmed, to be, to affirm them. Yes.

Social media is the main platform by which people express themselves

And we got to talk about this earlier in the week, but I got to go back to social media playing a huge part in this, md as far as Gen Z being in Gen Alpha, I think is the one after them. Each gender, subsequent generation is going to be more and more expressive where there is no value, they see no value in privacy. You know, we, you know, my generation might be one of the last few that kind of transitioned into social media, still has this value that they place on privacy and the, you know, knowing that the more you put yourself out there, the more susceptible you are to society, as a whole. And that that includes, criticisms and encouragements, you know, positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. What do you think about how much is social media factored into that?

>> Md Perkins: I m mean, it's huge. I mean, it is the main platform by which people express themselves. So you even wonder with some of these people who are offering their celebrations and some of them are getting fired or putting, being reprimanded by their bosses over Charlie Kirk. Yeah, they're celebrating the assassination, then coming real world consequences for something that they said online. And they're kind of acting like, like they're a victim in this. Nobody. You didn't have to say anything.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And they're shocked. Yeah, they're shocked.

>> Md Perkins: But they believe they did have to say something in order to express this aspect of who they truly are. They have to represent themselves a certain way. And so they have to have an opinion on things that happen in the moment.

>> Chris Woodward: I think one reason for that is because we went from like millennials saying I need my safe space on campus to Gen Zers believing they've got to go to the front seat of a car and video them ranting about something and posting it on social media. And to your point about Gen Zers, and don't get me wrong, Gen Zers, I'm a millennial. We're emotional people.

>> Tony Vitagliano: I don't know how many are listening. Right.

>> Chris Woodward: But like, to your guys point here, it's not an exaggeration to say that Gen Zers are emotional people. Because in a story we have today on afn.net Bronson Woodruff covered this for us. There's a new report out that finds 71% of managers say their Gen Z employees expect to receive praise for performing basic tasks. They require positive reinforcement for meeting the bare minimum. And 6 in 10 employers say Gen Z'ers perform better with more praise when they get constructive criticism or negative feedback. 3 in 10 managers say their employees have cried. 38% say Gen Zers have called out sick the next day. Or 10% were contacted by the Gen Z workers parents.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Oh, boy.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm blown away by that.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You mentioned, you mentioned what's probably Most disturbing are people sharing, themselves crying.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You know, the videos they'll, they'll record of themselves just weeping or crying and sharing intimate details of their life. And, and there used to be a sense in society of you just don't, that's, that's supposed to be private.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's supposed to be between maybe with some friends or.

>> Tony Vitagliano: With some friends. Right. and that's just that, that, that's just gone because like you said, they're looking for the, the world, so to speak, to offer them, you know, some type of encouragement or reassurance. They're just looking anywhere else and they're.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Finding out that it, that they're not going to get it from the world. They're going to. They are because they've been in an echo chamber. They're getting it from their little clan. And then when they're expecting the world to applaud for them crying or, or venting, now they're finding out that their boss and other people or their universities finding out. And guess what? The world, which you thought was the world was just your little group.

>> Chris Woodward: Right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And now you're facing the consequences of having bled your feelings out and, and, and deeply offended what we would consider the broader community.

>> Md Perkins: Well, that's the double edged sword of this expressive individualism. If that was an expression of who you truly are, then your hatred of Charlie Kirk and your celebration of actual murder m is an expression of who you are as well. And so that is kind of the frightening state that we're in now. Obviously people are desensitized. They're not always thinking rationally. They've just kind of assume that they had perfect immunity with whatever they said online. But still it is a reflection of the heart in some ways what people are saying. And they're coming up to that against that reality.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I've seen two kinds of consequences here that have kind of driven this point you're making home. One is in response to teachers who have celebrated the death of Charlie Kirk. I've seen a lot of comments when these people get fired, be put on leave. People saying why would I want someone who believes this and does this to be teaching my kid? Right. okay, that's kind of like the, the real world fallout of what they have said. And then you have the just other general employers who, whose firing of these individuals is based on this idea. Why would I want someone who acts this way to represent my company? Yeah. and, and so these people are expressing themselves, wanting applause. Chris, to your point, wanting applause. For saying something and believing this. And they're finding out that the, the, the corruption that's in their own heart, they wouldn't call it that has real world consequences because people are looking at that going, I don't want you anywhere near my kids or my business.

>> Chris Woodward: In 70 years time, we went from the me generation to the look at me generation. And now we're at the look at me and praise me generation. And Gen Z is Gen X is just going, I just wish somebody would remember our generation. I mean, like that's, it's, it's where we are in America. And some of that is church too. It's, we don't get enough. We don't get the swift kick in the pants that we used to.

What should the church do in helping some of the younger generations

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, so last, last question, by the way, our guest has been MD Perkins. He's a director and producer at American Family Studios, also an accomplished writer, and we are talking about the article that he has written that appears on afn.net it is titled free Speech, Double Standards and the Assassination of Charlie Kirk. Chris Woodward has also posted a link to that article on our Today's Issues Facebook page. So, last question, M.D. since Chris mentioned the church, what, what do, what should the church do in helping some of the younger generations? which the church has always had to help every generation. Right. But we're talking about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. What can they do to bring a scriptural, a biblical reality to young people who have been caught up in the social media world and been trained by it to do the kinds of things we're talking about?

>> Md Perkins: Well, it's part of the purpose of the church and the nature of the Gospel itself, which is look outside of yourself. That it's not about looking inward and finding your identity and who you are and what this form of expression is. It's looking outside of yourself at the accomplishment of someone else. And we're speaking specifically of Christ. But you can apply that same sort of mentality of just get outside of your own mind, get outside of your own thinking, look at objective truth, stop being ruled by your emotions, by your feelings, by your desires, and conform yourself more to the objective standard that is the Word. So preaching the word in a way that is authoritative, that recognizes the power of it, that recognizes God's authority in it to hold you accountable for things and to define who you are. Because that's part of this rub of expressive individualism, is I get to express who I am and you don't get to. You don't have authority to Speak that into my life. No, actually God does have that authority to speak into us. And so pastors, preachers, church leaders should, should recognize the authority that God has given them as a preacher of the word to bring this to bear in people's lives. Sometimes that takes on more of a pastoral context, sometimes it's just proclamation from the pulpit. But either way it needs to come with that sense of authority and power.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Amen. Well, MD, thank you once again also for writing something that is very insightful, helpful to the body of Christ. To those who look to American Family News, for example, for some aid in sifting through the, all the, all the ideas. We have ideas going in every direction.

>> Md Perkins: They're all over the place.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They're all over the place. So thank you once again for and all that you do here.

>> Md Perkins: Well, thank you for the American. Thank you for the opportunity.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Family association and American Family Studios. Alex, before we move on to whatever Chris has.

You work with young people all the time, so you kind of have experience

Ah, next, you're on college campuses a lot with young people. You just finished a summer worth, I guess you're done of your your week long camps. What have you got to say in terms of the younger generations? I will say this. We have younger generations working here. I love the young people, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, who who work here or who are upcoming that I get to meet. There are a lot of young people that love Jesus and have their head on straight.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, absolutely. You know, as Charlie Kirk and I were talking on August, 21st, then he emailed or texted me rather. We were, had a text exchange going on a few days before he was shot and we were really rejoicing at how spiritually hungry young people are. And I mean he gave the full biblical, unadulterated gospel. So do we. And I mean middle school, high school, college kids are eating it up for one thing. I mean the truly biblical message that, you know, yes, God loves us, but we are sinners and we're not called to sin management, we're called to repentance. And kids are flocking to this true gospel message because it's fresh and new. They haven't heard it. But I think we as Christians, as churches, we have the greatest opportunity of our lifetime because people, and especially young people, they are absolutely spiritually hungry. And when we tell them the, the full, not watered down message of Jesus, they respond.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Do you think, some of that hunger has to do with. Now this is just from reading. you work with young people all the time, so you kind of have the experience. But it seems to me that at least part of the explanation for this hunger would be, number one, they've been confronted. They've been told that evolution's true all their lives. There is no afterlife. There is no God who loves them. And they. And that is a. A black pit that they've stared into all their lives. And now they want to know if there really is a God. And then, number two, the fact that we've bemoaned the statistics and the studies that have shown that just how sexually active, for example, a lot of young people have been, even down into, you know, junior high school, and in terms of drug use and in terms of being exposed to pornography online, all these kinds of things they've experienced at a very young age. And. And long before my generation would have come to the conclusion that this is a dead end, these young people are already there.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, well, look, we could call it narcissism or the culture of relativism. it's empty. It's an empty abyss. Right? I mean, whether it's, you know, immorality, promiscuity, just the participation trophy culture. Right, right. And deep down, people know, look, I didn't earn this. There's nothing substantive here. And then the Christian worldview comes along and says, look, God exists and God created us, and my life has a purpose. I'm not just this evolutionary accident. And, there was a book many years ago by a guy named Sheldon Van Aken, and it was a book. In fact, in 1978, it won the Book of the Year award. It was called A Severe Mercy. A Severe Mercy. Does God love us? Yes. But God loves us so much that he doesn't leave us as we are in our sinful state. God says repent. God says, I've got something better for you. It's not just sensuality. It's righteousness and eternity. And so, you know, once again, as has been the case throughout history, when the world has lost its way to an immeasurable degree, there is a voice calling us back as Jesus. And the world is ready for it now. This is our time, once again, to help people rediscover the gospel.

>> Tony Vitagliano: I think, what's also radical to the younger generation, when they hear the gospel and they hear about repentance and turning from your sin, is that to your point, that this generation and then previous, with every subsequent generation, there have been no limits put on anything? Right. On your consumption, no limits on your consumption, no limits on your sexuality. Society has not imposed any limits on, the obvious vices. So when they're confronted with, oh, there's this. There's this religion that says, hey, there actually are limits. You actually should be imposing limits and discipline, and there needs to be repentance. It's so radical and stark that it's almost. You're almost the new rebels to just say, you know what? No, like, I'm not going to consume, pornography any longer. I'm not going to hook up with, you know, any person that I meet, over a dating app. You know, I'm going to limit and discipline, myself, because that's what, that's what my God tells me I need to do.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. So, well. And it gives them an anchor.

>> Tony Vitagliano: It gives them an anchor and a.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Life where they feel like they're being blown far, far off course. All right, great discussion. We're gonna take a five minute break for news, and when we come back, Steve Paisley Jordal will be bringing the heat.

>> Alex McFarland: M the views and opinions expressed in.

>> Tony Vitagliano: This broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio. M.

Ed, Tony and Alex talk with Chris on top news headlines of the day including a discussion on how Jimmy Kimmel's show has been canceled. Also, M.D. Perkins joins the program to discuss his latest article on free speech.