In today's society, traditional values of marriage and the family unit face scrutiny

>> Speaker A: In today's society, the traditional values of marriage and the family unit face increasing scrutiny and reinterpretation. Join us as a courageous group of speakers and leaders rise up to defend these foundational institutions from a biblical perspective. For more information and to reserve your spot, visit us at scs. Edu National Conference, the steadfast national conference on Christian apologetics and evangelism, where faith meets reason, culture and community.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Welcome to Today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Thanks for listening to AFR on this Thursday, September 25, 2025. Joining, me in studio is, Fred Jackson. Good morning, brother Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes, good morning.

>> Tim Wildmon: Just how you doing?

>> Fred Jackson: I'm doing well. Just three months to Christmas.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, time to get that shopping done.

>> Fred Jackson: yeah, it actually started at Hobby Lobby about three months ago.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hobby Lobby's, I think that's a year it pretty well is. It pretty much pretty well is. Yeah, they take it down and then they, three months later, they put it back up. Good morning, Chris Woodward.

>> Chris Woodward: Does anybody want anything from Amazon prime while I'm on here?

>> Tim Wildmon: Good morning, Ray. Ray Pritchard.

>> Tim Wildmon: Excuse me. I got to go put up my Christmas tree while I have a chance here.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, it won't be long now, you know, it'll. The fall is here and it won't be long till Christmas. You know, it's just the months pass by seemingly. I love summertime. That's my favorite season. What's your favorite season, friend?

>> Fred Jackson: For this Canadian, boy. Yeah, not summer.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, I understand.

>> Fred Jackson: Not summer here in the South. Yeah, I love the falls here and I love the spring.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, I really do. Yeah, yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Spring is just. It comes so early. Yeah, that, and that is so nice.

>> Tim Wildmon: Springtime here in, in the deep south, probably starts first, second week in March. Yeah. Ah, pretty much. What about you, Ray? What's your favorite time of the year?

>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, we're in it right now. Look, the fall, this beautiful weather is not too hot, not too cold. You know, we, we're doing fine. We got college football, right? So all's right with the world. No, this is, this is the best time of the year to me.

>> Tim Wildmon: Chris, for a fellow 5 7, what's your favorite time of the year, Chris?

>> Chris Woodward: I like spring and summer. fall, fall is our greatest 13 days of non consecutive weather somewhere between November 1st and the February ice storm.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Well, anyway, it's. It's. I love fall too. It's hard to pick a favorite time of the year, but, for me, I'm a summer guy. Yeah, I hate to see summer go say so long. So bye bye, summer. bye bye.

>> Fred Jackson: It'll be back soon.

>> Tim Wildmon: Coming back. Coming.

>> Tim Wildmon: All right, so a lot to talk about today. Dr. Frank Turek will be with us at the bottom of the hour. Frank's usually with us once a week when he can, but this will be the first time we've talked to Frank since, the assassination of his friend Charlie Kirk. Frank was on site with Charlie, was part of the security, team that drove him to the hospital. you. Many of you've heard us recount, play Frank's recounting of that. That day, so. But he'll be with us. A lot has happened since then, the memorial service and other things. So we'll talk to Frank Turi coming up at the bottom of the hour. All right, what's your first story, Chris?

Authorities have identified the shooter in yesterday's deadly Dallas ICE facility attack

>> Chris Woodward: Well, authorities in the Dallas area have fired the shooter in yesterday's deadly Dallas ICE facility attack. The shooter has been identified as Joshua John, and authorities say he killed at least one person and wounded two others when he fired on a Dallas Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility. CBS and some other news outlets say that John took his own life after that shooting. The mother is in a story today, saying that her son, has become very political, very left leaning in recent, months, leading people to believe that he had some sort of issue with, ICE and the federal government.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so explain this to me. This is an ICE facility in Dallas, right?

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And this 20. How was this fella?

>> Chris Woodward: Early 20s.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Fred Jackson: 29, actually.

>> Chris Woodward: Okay.

>> Tim Wildmon: 29 years old.

>> Chris Woodward: Had the wrong tape.

>> Tim Wildmon: He gets on top of a building near the ICE facility like the killer did that assassinated Charlie, Kirk. And just like the guy who's chastening, Charlie Kirk wrote on the bullets. Right? According to the FBI, yes. anti ICE sentiments. Right? Correct.

>> Fred Jackson: Correct.

>> Tim Wildmon: Somebody noted. I'm not a gun expert, but I guess was. Somebody was noting Ed was. Maybe these were. Oh, old fashioned.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, it mentioned that yesterday. Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Maybe I shouldn't even brought this up. Anyway, bullets that were. That were found were like, used like in World War II or something. Do you remember? Anyway, so, but. And then the guy killed himself, right? Right.

>> Fred Jackson: Correct.

>> Tim Wildmon: Is there. Do we know anything more about. So was he trying to kill ICE agents or was, he trying to kill the illegal immigrants who were being, set for deportation.

>> Fred Jackson: There are some on the left because, of the individuals who were wounded, who were detainees, they're saying that the detainees were the target. That is not true. What happened was this guy on the roof, this young man, 29 year old, Joshua John, he, aimed at a van that was bringing these detainees in. So he was shooting indiscriminately at the van. The bullets hit the detainees inside the van. All right, no, his target, he was clearly anti ice. And by the way, the story on his mom this morning, she, she's a far lefty. Far Lefty anti gun, etc. Etc. So, let's be clear about that. He was not aiming at the detainees. He aimed at a van that was moving into this transition area.

>> Tim Wildmon: He shot blindly? Basically.

>> Fred Jackson: Basically, yes. but there's no question his aim was for the ICE agents that were in that area.

>> Tim Wildmon: But he, but he shot the detainee.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Ah.

>> Tim Wildmon: How many died? Two.

>> Fred Jackson: There was three. One detainee died, three wounded. One of them died.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so his motive though was to, apparently was to kill ICE agents.

>> Fred Jackson: The ICE agents in that area.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, again, if that's true. It seems to be true, Ray. This is more political violence from the left.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, first of all, we shouldn't be surprised because when you demonize the people you hate, when you compare Mr. Trump, say, to Hitler, when you compare ICE agents to the Gestapo, so to speak, when you, when you characterize a whole group of people you, you hate as almost evil beyond belief in subhuman, eventually somebody who is mentally, mentally not right is going to do what this young man did, is going to write some stuff on bullets, which is what sure reminds us of what happened out there in Utah. And they're going to begin to take shots. So, yeah, the, the extremist rhetoric from the far left and probably inside his own family, probably created an atmosphere in which this was more likely to happen.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, what are we, what are we going to listen to here?

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, I've got a montage of anti ICE Dems and the rhetoric that they've been doing. And then I'll call for some reaction from somebody in government here.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Clip 3 Donald Trump's modern day scapo.

>> Tim Wildmon: Is scooping folks up off the streets.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They're in unmarked vans, wearing masks, being shipped off to foreign torture dungeons.

>> Tim Wildmon: Secret police who are masked, who are intimidating, who are scaring people. These Gestapo like tactics.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It does look like a Gestapo operation. It does look like the Gestapo ICE unmasked.

>> Tim Wildmon: What are you afraid of?

>> Chris Woodward: That person there at the end was Governor, Gavin Newsom, who is finding every opportunity to try to start a campaign for president in a few years. Now we've got some reaction from Tricia McLaughlin or McLachlan. she says the anti ICE rhetoric is responsible for.

>> Tim Wildmon: Who's she?

>> Chris Woodward: She works assistant, DHS secretary clip five.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Our law enforcement is facing a 1,000% increase in assaults against them. And while this is an open investigation, we are still very much looking at motive. we saw those shell casings with the anti ICE messages and we saw the monstrous actions of this individual targeting our ICE law enforcement. This, this has to stop. The political violence in this country must come to an end, before there's further bloodshed.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, let me step back here and try to take a big picture view of this for just a moment. because, what you have here is, and I mentioned this yesterday, I think of the day before in somewhat when, when when law enforcement, people engage in confrontation with citizens or with not non law enforcement people, let's put it that way. in this case people here who are here illegally or any confrontation, it never looks good on camera.

Democrats are accusing ICE of acting like secret police

Okay? It's not, it's not it, it's, it's, it's oftentimes contentious, it's ugly, it's violent. the law enforcement have to use force to subdue people and to do that they got to have, they got to have the right kind of garb up. They do look like a Gestapo. They do look like secret police in the sense that that's how they have to, they do pop out of vans. You know why? Because they have to have the element of surprise. So all the things that the Democrats there are accusing ICE of, the optics that they're describing are, are reasonable. Okay. Yeah, but what they don't tell you is what they, but they won't tell you. These are, these are lawful agents of the federal government. These aren't Gestapo or these, these aren't rogue people. These aren't cowboys. These are people who. The ice, organization based in you know, part of the federal government is under the administration. Right, the presidential, the executive, correct me if I'm wrong here, they're under the president security. They are. Their responsibility is, is to round up. Yeah, you can say round up if you want to. People who are here illegally and primarily people who are here illegally in our country who are doing bad things, committing crimes, selling drugs, you know, human, trafficking, things of that nature. but they don't have to be just limited to that because if you are here illegally in a United States of America, you're subject to deportation. Yeah, there's a, there's a reason people say, well, they're undocumented. Well, I would say, where are their documents? Yeah, okay. You call it, you can call, you can rename it whatever you want to name it. And I'm not saying these people aren't human. They don't deserve to be treated, as such unless they respond violently to the ice, in which case all bets are off. And that's what happened in Los Angeles a few months ago. These people who ICE were trying to detain got violent in their response. Well, ice, at that point the agents can't say, oh, come on man, please don't do this. Can we just talk this out? No, they don't do that. They go in and they have to, they do what they're trained to do, just like the FBI or SWAT teams. They go in and they crack down. If they have to use force and violence, they'll do it.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Why?

>> Tim Wildmon: Because they have to protect themselves.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so the idea that ICE can go around the country doing their job and not look like, they're using force is, but that's what the left here is wanting to do. They're, they're suggesting that, that, that, that I should, should, should go and knock on the door and say is, is so and so here.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: hey, listen, I'm going to give you my card. When he comes home, would you have him call me? Because we want to talk to him about these drugs that are being sold in the, in the neighborhood. Thank you very much. They can't do that. Right. So, but that left wants to, the, and the many in the liberal news media, they want to, say, they want to make m. These federal agents, ICE agents look bad. And so they say they're the gestapo, you heard them say. And, and Governor Gavin Newsom of California, Democrat, he wants the ICE agents to have to take off their mask, right?

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: The reason they wear mask is so they won't be doxed, so their families won't be killed. people won't come to their homes, these ICE agents. But Nat Newsom was wants, he wants them to be, unmasked. So they just. I would ask Governor Newsom, have you said a word about these mask, criminals that are breaking into diamond stores and convenience stores and high end stores, not convenience stores probably. They're, they're more Just gang. They're more just rushed by looters. But I'm talking about, we're seeing this in California a lot where these mass criminals, they, they use cars to burst in. The other day they used a car to bust into, a diamond store and just took it all. And you had about 15 or 20 of them? Well, they all had mask on. Did I hear Governor Newsom say, you know, you criminals, you need to take your mask off before you go rob a store? I'm being a little bit facetious here, but you get the point. Yeah. So anyway, I know that was a long diatribe, but these, these lefties that are wanting to make ice, their intention is to make ICE the enemy. Well, you see what happens. Some people take that out on, take that literally, like this guy yesterday and try to gun down the Gestapo or the secret police, because again, the liberals, not all liberals, but media, the liberals and the, and the, and the left have demonized the ICE organization, our federal agency.

>> Chris Woodward: None of those people we heard in that sound bite, the montage there, none of those people said a word about Gestapo like tactics when Biden had the federal government raid Mark Hauck's home and take him at gunpoint.

>> Tim Wildmon: Who is he? For those who don't know, Mark Hauck.

>> Chris Woodward: Is the, the pro life activist that Biden wrongfully accused of violating the Face act for an altercation. Ah. Outside of Planned Parenthood. That had nothing to do with the Face Act. He ended up being exonerated later. But basically, I mean, they showed up and took him over breakfast.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Chris Woodward: In front of his kids.

>> Tim Wildmon: I remember that. You're listening to today's issues on American Family Radio. Next story.

Tomorrow, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will give a speech at UN

>> Chris Woodward: All right, this is definitely going to be something to watch. We're already scheduling it, for tomorrow on Friday. Tomorrow, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to give a speech at the UN and if the Times of Israel is correct, France is going to be the chief target of Netanyahu's ire. In the UN Speech, according to the Times of Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will mention, France and the other countries, that have in recent days or weeks started to recognize what they're calling a Palestinian state, which Netanyahu and even President Trump say, would be a Reward for the October 7, 2023 terrorist attacks.

>> Fred Jackson: This is going to be a barn burner of speech tomorrow, folks. Prime Minister Netanyahu, before he got on the plane to head to the United States, spoke, to reporters at the airport There in Tel Aviv, he said, I will. This is a quote from Netanyahu. I will denounce those leaders who, instead of denouncing the murderers, rapists and childburners, want to give them a state in the heart of the land of Israel. This will not happen. so he is going to not be gentle tomorrow. And rightfully so. He's going to go after those countries like Canada, now the uk, France, Australia, who are now calling for a separate.

>> Tim Wildmon: What is wrong with these people? Right? What is wrong with these Western leaders demanding that Israel create, help create a state on their border with people who want to kill them all? as I say, what's wrong with these people?

>> Tim Wildmon: What is wrong with these people is in some cases, we're not saying all, but in some cases they hate the Jewish people, okay?

>> Tim Wildmon: They hate the existence, straight up hate Jews.

>> Tim Wildmon: They hate Jews and they hate the nation of Israel. And they would be okay with Israel ceasing to exist as a nation and the creation of a Palestinian state in their mind is a step in that direction. And for others, for others they have drunk the Kool Aid from Hamas and Hamas supporters around the world and they've lost their moral compass completely. I mean France recognized a Palestinian state. There is no friend, there is no Palestinian state to recognize. It doesn't even exist.

>> Fred Jackson: And you're exactly right, Ray. There's a lot of there's political pressure they're succumbing to in France, which has a huge Muslim population, the UK because of basically their open borders. Germany, the same way they've allowed all of these Muslims to come in. And now these political leaders for some reason feel they're beholden to them to advocate for this Palestinian state. Tim, we've said it many times this, what happened in the wake, October 7, 2023. We're almost two years now since this has happened. Hamas could have ended, could have ended this months ago by surrendering, but they're not willing to do that. This would have been all over months ago. But Hamas wanted this. I believe they want on TV screens across the, across the world the idea that Israel is the bad guy here because so many people in Gaza have been killed. No, Hamas could have ended this months ago and saved the lives of these thousands of Palestinians.

>> Tim Wildmon: I'm not even sure that Hamas wants this two state solution. I think they want to drive the Jews out of Israel from the river to the sea.

>> Fred Jackson: No question.

>> Tim Wildmon: They're not looking for a two state solution.

>> Tim Wildmon: No, they want all of Israel or Or kill all the Jews. That's basically where they are. listen, the, the. And for these Western leaders, like the Great Britain, Prime Minister, I don't even know his name. then you got Keir Starmer.

>> Chris Woodward: that's the UK Prime Minister, Keir Starmer.

>> Tim Wildmon: Then you got the. France, What's wrong? You got him and you got Australia. And then I don't know who, who else is. They are, calling for a two state solution. You talk about the old proverbial. The, the horse has left the barn. Okay. The idea of a two state solution is like so antiquated, I mean, that that horse is galloped like 100 miles from the barn. Okay? So it's, it's, it's unrealistic. and so Benjamin Netanyahu, tomorrow Netanyahu is going to come to the United nations and address them and he's going to be very forthright. Huh?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, he's, he's not going to be gentle. He's going to take the gloves off.

>> Tim Wildmon: Good.

>> Fred Jackson: And the representatives of those countries are going to be sitting there in front of him.

>> Tim Wildmon: Listen.

>> Fred Jackson: And he's going to tell them, you're dead wrong.

>> Tim Wildmon: Listen, the, Arabs around that part of the world, around Israel could absorb the Palestinian population. It wouldn't be necessarily easy, but you've got Egypt, you've got Saudi Arabia, you've got, Jordan. Now Jordan has taken a lot of, Palace. What?

>> Fred Jackson: Palace?

>> Tim Wildmon: Arab Palestinians. There's no, no other kind really. I don't know. But anyway, right, Ray, and you got, So you, you. They don't seem to be. By they, I mean these Arab countries that surround Israel just don't seem to want to be a part of the solution of maybe, helping to relocate these folks into an Arab country, a Muslim country, where they could, they could start a new life. Maybe. Maybe, I'm being idealistic. I don't know. What do you think about what I've just.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, it's almost, It's a. For 60 years this discussion has been going on. Maybe 70 years it's been going on what to do with the Palestinian refugees. Jordan could take them. They don't want great numbers of refugees. Saudi Arabia certainly could take them. They don't want a great number of refugees coming in. So they are stuck.

>> Tim Wildmon: What do they expect Israel to do?

>> Tim Wildmon: What do they think that Israel is going to do?

Let's lay blame squarely on Hamas for what happened in Gaza

what's happened in Gaza? Nobody can be happy about what's happened in Gaza. But let's understand who started this? This all started on October 7th when they made the, when Hamas made the unprovoked attack and killed what, 11, 1200 Jews. this is. Lay this completely at the doorstep of the bloody terrorists. They started it. And Israel. Now the only difference now with Israel is they at last have a prime minister who said, we're going to stick with this. We're going to finish the job.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. So, yeah, this is, almost like the world demanding that the United States give Texas back to Mexico.

>> Chris Woodward: That's what I was, that's just what I was thinking. That's, it's. Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And we're not going to, you know, we demand that the United States give taxes back to.

>> Chris Woodward: Hey, if the UN does that, 49 other states are going to say, come and take it.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, that's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: I know. It's just bizarre that we keep going on and on and on and on in this. I do think the bottom line, at least spiritually and biblically, is that people hate Jews over there. Yeah. And, and M. Now. And there's anti Semitism for many reasons around the world. I do think that's spiritual at its nature as well. We'll be back momentarily.

For $28 you can sponsor an ultrasound and help save a baby's life

>> Ed Vitagliano: Finally, some Good news. Over 38,000 babies saved and more than 4,000 commitments to Christ through the ministry of preborn this year alone. Here's Dan Steiner, president of PreBorn.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: But if we can get a mom into one of our clinics and show her her baby and she has that close, encounter of the best kind in her womb, she will choose life.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Preborn's networks of clinics provide hope, love, free ultrasounds and the gospel in action across America. This is Ed Vitagliano. Will you join PreBorn and AFR as we rescue 70,000 babies lives this year? For $28 you can sponsor an ultrasound and help save a baby's life. To donate, dial £250 and say the keyword BABY. That's £250 BABY or donate securely at preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr.

>> Jeff Chamblee: This is today's issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's Issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of, today's Issues.

Fred: I got a text from YouTube offering me a high paying job

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, welcome back everybody to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Fred, Chris and Ray, we thank you for listening to afr. And if you want to watch the show on, the Internet, you can go to, there's stream, uh.afa.net stream.afa.net that's our website. you also got Facebook Live. Type in today's issues. Brent, tell us all the myriad and various ways they can go to Facebook, Facebook, dot com and type in today's issues. You can also go to YouTube and type in today's issues live. And we are on Twitter or X. Ah, American Family Radio. Okay. By the way, I woke up this morning to a text after we talked about YouTube yesterday. Right. she, this text said, good, morning. I'm Katy, a customer service representative from YouTube. Your resume has been recommended by multiple online recruitment platforms. it offers me a high paying position at YouTube. Do they even know who I am? I've been banned, Timothy. They banned me three times or four. And now, now they want me to work for them. Six to ten grand a month you can make with this. With this. So I don't know, I'm gonna have to show this to my board.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Because if they want to keep me, you know what I'm saying, I need some nil money.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's right. That's right. Or you're gonna enter the port. You're going to enter the portal.

>> Tim Wildmon: I'm going to show. I'm going to show them this portal offer by YouTube for me to come to work for them. Just a lot of benefits they're offering me here. It says for more information please send a message to. And they gave me a number to message them. So Fred, do you think this is legit?

>> Fred Jackson: There are possibilities, yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: All right. Anyway, have you got any of these.

>> Fred Jackson: No, not yet.

>> Tim Wildmon: Have you never got any of these texts where they have job offer?

>> Chris Woodward: I will neither confirm nor deny those reports.

>> Fred Jackson: Brave.

>> Tim Wildmon: You never.

>> Tim Wildmon: Have you not got?

>> Tim Wildmon: I have got. I have gotten a bunch. That's the same thing. Multiple people have recommended you.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, you're going to have to. I got one from indeed the other day. Fred, you're going to have to get your name out there and so you get some job offers like this.

>> Fred Jackson: All right, I'm going to Walmart.

>> Tim Wildmon: All right. So ambitious friend.

Dr. Frank Turek was with Charlie Kirk the day he passed away

All right, so on a more somber note, we are going to talk now to our good friend Dr. Frank Turek. Frank is, you know, been a longtime host, on weekends of his show here on American Family Radio and travels the country speaking on college campuses and to students doing Q and A just ah, in defense of the Christian faith and talking to folks about religion, and, and the Bible and, and he's with us now. Frank. Was, with Charlie Kirk the day he passed away. Frank, good morning to you.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Good morning, gents. it is a somber day, somber time. And, I will say, though, that I did get an email from a Nigerian prince wanting to give me.

>> Tim Wildmon: Same old Frank.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: So I'm not sure. I'm not sure your. Your offer is better than mine.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Okay. Well, we. We checked that. I didn't know that Nigerian prince was hanging around. I thought he was, so 90s. hey, Frank, so just set this up. I text you the night of Charlie's assassination because I didn't know that you were with Charlie. I just knew that you were friends of his. I wanted you to see if you could come on and talk about him. and then you said, no, I'm. I can't. I'm. I'm in Utah. I took, I was part of the. Exactly how you said it, but you said, I. I took Charlie to the hospital, and I was just flabbergasted. And then I saw the video footage of you with Charlie throwing out hats, right before he spoke. Right.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So, I didn't have. We don't have anything, any direction in particular to go here with this conversation with you. I just wanted to have you on, let you say what you want to say.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Well, the reason I was with Charlie is because he reached out to me about five years ago because he had seen our videos online from college campuses, and as you know, he was doing a lot of that, and he just wanted to get better at defending the Christian faith on college campuses. So he emailed our ministry back in2020, and we just kind of became fast friends. And, he invited me to many events with TP usa, and I would go out and see him. And especially over this past summer, we spent a lot of time together, a couple of days each month leading up to the new tour, because he wanted to really study and get better at defending the Christian faith and also answering political questions. And, you know, it. You think it might be hard to mentor somebody that's smarter than you, Charlie? Certainly smarter than I am. But it wasn't with Charlie because the only thing that surpassed his intellect was his humility. And the few things I knew that he didn't know, he wanted to learn. So we spent a lot of time together and. And then, he wanted me to come back just before he was going to go out on tour, and he said, hey, if you want to come to the first one with me, that'd be great. So we flew out there on Sunday and spent time with him on Monday and Tuesday. And then Wednesday we went to the event in Utah, and that's why I was with him. And, he was preparing to do it. 10. Well, he was going to do, like, 25 colleges this, this semester. And the last one was going to be with me at Berkeley. We, were going to do that one together. We're still going to Berkeley. Charlie won't be with us, not physically anyway. it's still going to happen on November 10th. Lord willing, I'll be with the actor, the comedian, Rob Schneider. so we. He was like the son to me. So when I. I thought to myself, at some point, somebody's going to try and someone's going to try and take Charlie out at some point. He's just too effective. In fact, when we walked into the venue that day, before we walked in, we had drone footage of how many people were there. And I said to Charlie as we were driving in, you know, Charlie, I don't like this place. There's too many buildings. That he kind of shrugged it off. And, you know, what's he going to do? There's thousands of people there. so he. He wanted to. He wanted to defend the Christian faith, and he did, and he was martyred for it.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: So we just. I just went with the security team, you know.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Since he was like a son to me, you know, God forbid any of your sons got hit. Tim, you're not going to stay behind and go, I'll see at the hospital. You know, you're going to get in the car with them.

>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Charlie Kirk's organization chased votes in many of the seven swing states

Let me ask you this about that because, you observed, as you commented to Charlie about the buildings, around it, when they showed pictures of the killer, you could see him. You know, they were from a distance, so you could see him. You, could see a dark spot on top of the building, like somebody was laying down. So was that. Do you know if the tent, was meant sort of as a cover for now?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: The tent was only meant there to, you know, keep Charlie out of the sun.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: and, you know, it's also highlights the stage because, you know, it says prove me wrong on it. It's got all the TP USA logo material on it.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: So it wasn't. It wasn't there to protect him from anything but the sun. And the further away you get, I mean, ask the security guys this, you know, the further away you get, you can see under the tent. And, Okay, when this full investigation is done. As I said at the memorial service, when the full investigation is done, you're going to see that his security team did what they were supp. Do. Somebody else dropped the ball, and I'm just going to leave it there.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, well, the same thing with President Trump that day. Somebody dropped the ball because, a shooter should not get, that close to the president. And, in this case with Charlie, talk about, if you would. You know, it's remarkable, that remarkable with all caps, the story of Charlie Kirk, because 31, we're talking about a fella who, who died at 31 years of age. And as you said, you met him five years ago because he was watching your videos. And I'm going like, how could somebody rise to some that level of prominence and influence in only, what, 10, 12 years? I mean, when did he start, and what was his. What kind of lifted him to national prominence, for lack of a better word? Go ahead.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Well, he started right out of high school. He decided not to go to college. That's why he wasn't messed up.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: He started right out of high school, and he was just an intelligent kid. Through a lot of hard work and, just a lot of personal sacrifice, he was able to get a group of people around him. And ultimately, when enough people saw his gifts of speaking and organizing, the money came in and, it kind of reached a tipping point to where he could build a big organization, an organization that was so dedicated to excellence that they could, from a political perspective, chase votes better than the RNC could. The reason Donald Trump is president today, one major reason, is because Charlie Kirk's organization chased votes in the seven, in many of the seven swing states, and they chased down low propensity Republican voters to vote for the Trump ticket. J.D. vance famously said, I would not be vice president without Charlie Kirk because Charlie Kirk was the advocate to Don Jr. For his father's VP. Said it should be. Should be J.D. vance.

>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, you mean Charlie. You mean Charlie was pushing for J.D. vance? Is that what you're saying? Yes, I got you.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: M. Okay. Fred, you had a question?

We have seen an incredible reaction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, Frank, we have seen an incredible reaction to the assassination of Charlie. A, reaction that we're hearing stories of young people coming to altars, giving their life to Jesus Christ. We've heard reports of more than 60,000 requests for, you know, for campus, chapters, all of these sorts of things. Charlie's life, his purpose is continuing. Do you see this even increasing, even more as time goes on?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: I sure hope so. It's not 60,000. It's now 120,000 as of last night. Yeah, they had 2,000 chapters two weeks ago when Charlie was murdered. Now they have requests for 120,000. Even if only 10% of those are legit, the, organization's gonna quadruple. people are not. This isn't just. This is not just a. A, political revival. It's a spiritual revival. And that's the most important thing Charlie wanted, and, that's what I wanted to get across at the memorial, that the reason Charlie Kirk is in heaven is not because he did all these good things. It's not because he even sacrificed himself for his savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. And as a result of all of the great things, or, as a result of Charlie's trust in Christ, he did all of those great things.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, here's how we're going to do that. How long do you got? You got, you got. can you stay with us to the top of the hour?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Sure, yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: We're talking to Dr. Frank Turek, our good friend and colleague, and he has a show here and has for years here on American Family Radio. I don't have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, which airs weekends, here on American Family Radio. So join Frank Saturdays at 9am Central Time, and then Sundays at 4pm Central Time right here on American Family Radio for the I Don't have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist radio show hosted by our guest right now, Dr. Frank Turek. Frank was a close friend, and mentor to Charlie. Kirk was with Charlie, when he died at the. When he was assassinated, what was it now? Two weeks ago now? Something like that, in Utah. and Frank was. If you see the videos of Charlie, throwing out hats before the. Before the, speaking engagement started. Frank is also doing the same thing there. There's. They're just interacting, with the crowd there. As excitement was building as Charlie's first event, he was going to travel the country, going to college campuses, as he has done for years. And, then we know tragedy struck. But, here's how we're going to do this.

Frank Turek says he has reached people with the gospel

Chris, you get the first question since Frank can hang out with us for 10 more minutes. And then after you, then. Ray.

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah. Frank, first of all, thank you very much for, your speech there. I got saved in my late 20s. I became a Christian in my late 20s because somebody shared the gospel with me at a coffee shop. So I have no doubt that you have reached people with the gospel. And so my question is this for everybody that watched those, speeches, most of which, all of which involved the Holy Spirit. I mean, there was a lot of Romans Road stuff going on. It was very spiritual and it was a great way to share the gospel with people. What should we, the listeners today, the supporters of afa, afr, what should we do when we, see these people show up in our churches or we hear somebody in a conversation tell us that they've started, reading the Bible, going to church, listening, to Frank Turek. What should we do?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Well, I think what we ought to do is ensure this is not just an emotional conversion, but a true conversion. And that requires, people to know beyond a reasonable doubt that Christianity is true, that God does exist and Jesus did rise from the dead, and that he died for us, and that we need to become disciples and make disciples. That's why I said at the memorial that the purpose of life is to know Jesus and to make him known. So I would try and get these people involved in some sort of study. Study what the Bible says, what it means, but also study the evidence for why the Bible is true, why Christianity is true. And of course that's what we try and do because it's difficult for the heart to rejoice in what the mind doubts. And if you come to Christ on emotion, you can easily leave him on emotion. Because if it's all emotion and no fact, that's a very flimsy foundation, to go through difficulties that are going to come up or temptations that are going to come up, in your Christian life.

Miles Miles: Erica forgave the man who murdered her husband

>> Tim Wildmon: Ray, Frank, let's talk about, Erica just for a moment. Because in the. The focus, understandably has been on Charlie, but now Erica comes to the forefront and makes, M makes an unbelievable. When I say that unbelievable speech, one of the most moving things I have ever heard. I want you to comment, about her personally and what it was in her that caused her to say, I forgive that young man. That's a statement that has grabbed the hearts of millions of people around, including a lot of people outside the church, a lot of non Christian people.

>> Tim Wildmon: Wow.

>> Tim Wildmon: How did she find the strength to get up and talk? And how did she find the strength to forgive the young man who took the life of her husband?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: That's the Holy Spirit. That's the only way that can be explained. Christianity is the only religion, the only world view that says, pray for your enemies, that says love your Enemies. And it's the only worldview where God himself comes to earth and takes our punishment upon himself and even says, forgive them. They do not know what they do. that's unlike anything anywhere in reality. No other religion, no other worldview teaches that. And Erica yielded to the Holy Spirit and said that. Now when we say that, I think we also need to point out that this doesn't mean when you forgive somebody, there are no consequences. Of course there are consequences. the man that did this, I pray that he repents, accepts Jesus, and then I pray he's executed because he should be executed. Because when you take the life of another person, as the scriptures say, you should pay with your life, because the value of the life you took can only be paid with another life. And it also is just. And it also protects innocent people in the future. The scripture, I, believe it's in Ecclesiastes and I'm paraphrasing, says something like, when the, when the guilty go unpunished, the innocent suffer. so he ought to be punished. Even though Erica can forgive him, meaning she's not going to hold bitterness to him. She's not going to, this isn't going to eat her up waiting for vengeance. Jesus says, vengeance is mine. Leave that to me. you probably heard that bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping the other guy dies. It doesn't help you. It's not something that the Lord wants us to harbor. We need to forgive others like Jesus forgave us. And in fact, Jesus has a parable about that where, someone who owes someone a lot of money, the person to whom the money is owed says, forget it, I forgive you. But then that same person who was forgiven tries to extort money out of somebody that owes him money, and he's not forgiving at all. And Jesus essentially says, that person has done wrong. If Christ has forgiven you, you can forgive others. And that's what Erica did.

>> Tim Wildmon: Talking to Frank Turek. well, listen, Frank, so what's, what's. So you're going to Berkeley to speak Cal Berkeley?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: I am. But before that, tonight I'm at Lamar University in Beaumont, Texas at 7pm Central.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: It will be live streamed so people can watch it if they're not in the area. But, it's here in Beaumont, Texas. And, we're doing these events because they were scheduled before Charlie was murdered and Charlie would want us to continue them. We did an event last week at Western Carolina. We did an event two nights ago at McNeese State. Last night at a high school in Orange, Texas, and tonight at Lamar University in Beaumont, Texas. And the TPUSA tour continues. Last night it was at Virginia Tech with Governor Youngkin and Megan Kelly.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, saw that.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: We're going to be at Georgia Tech on, let's see. I think that's October 23rd. Me and Lucas Miles is the head of TPUSA Faith. And then, as I say, Lord willing, if the schedule holds, we'll be at UCAL Berkeley on November 10th to end the tour for this semester.

>> Tim Wildmon: But, yeah, how can people find out? You just listed the places you're going to be. Do you have that on your website?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Yes, it is. Go to cross examine.org, click on, I think events, something like that, or calendar. You'll find it. also go to tpusa for the TPUSA events that are all around the country as well.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: we are not backing down. We're going to double, double down our efforts and people are responding to it. And we need to pray that this revival is a big revival and brings people into the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ to the point that they become disciples and many more become disciples.

>> Tim Wildmon: Amen.

Frank Kobe will be giving a Q and A tonight in honor of Charlie Kirk

All right, so what is your website again?

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Cross examine dot org. Cross examine with a D on the end of it. They can also go to the YouTube channel tonight. Two words, cross examined, 7pm Central. You'll see it live. And it's if God, why evil? A Q and A in honor of my friend Charlie Kirk. So we're going to take a lot of questions tonight, just like we have in the past three events since his murder.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so Frank speaking tonight at, Lamar University in Beaumont. I don't know if people want to. They live within driving distance of Beaumont, whatever driving distance is in Texas. I think it's seven hours, two days. Somebody once told me, I don't know if this is true, that it's a, you can drive to Chicago from Amarillo quicker than you can go to Brownsville. So, you know, that's how big a state geographically, Texas is. Anyway, Frank Kobe and Beaumont, at lamar University tonight, 7 o'. Clock. But you can watch it live Streamed on Frank's YouTube channel. Dr. Frank Turek. T U R E K. All right, Frank. Take care, my friend. And we've been praying for you and, and, carry on. And, And we will always remember Charlie Kirk and his impact on our. For the cause of Christ and on the cause of freedom. brother.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Yes. And continue to pray for Erica and her kids and her support structure.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: Out there in Phoenix.

>> Tim Wildmon: Amen. Amen. All right, Frank, take care. Thank you.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: God bless you guys. Thanks.

>> Tim Wildmon: Thank you.

Dr. Frank Turek joins us from a Texas hotel room

It's Dr. Frank Turek. Turek. Joining us, from a hotel room somewhere in Texas, probably. I don't know. I think he's there now, but, that's coming up this evening. He'll be at Lamar University. All right, we're going to take a short time out right here, for news, and, we will be back with Steve Paisley. Jordan coming up in five minutes.

>> Dr. Frank Turek: SAM.

>> Tim Wildmon: M. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Tim, Fred and Ray talk with Chris on top news headlines of the day including the latest on the ICE Detention Facility shooting that happened in Dallas. Also, Dr. Frank Turek joins the program to discuss Charlie Kirk.