Tim Wildman: Utah is holding a preliminary hearing for accused murderer Tyler Robinson
Ed Vitagliano Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.
Tim Wildmon Hey, welcome back, everybody, to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. We'll be here for 24 and a half more minutes on this July 8th. We thank you for listening to American Family Radio. I'm Tim with Ed and Wesley. And Abe's, held over here. And, he's not hungover. People. Do not start. Don't out say Tim said Abe was hungover. You misheard me. I said he's remained in the studio, I should say. And Steve Paisley Jordal.
Steve Jordahl Hey, everybody.
Tim Wildmon Steve. Abe stayed on because there's a big news story that we wanted him to comment on. Go ahead and take it away.
Steve Jordahl Well, there is a trial. It's a preliminary hearing right now in Utah to find out if there's enough evidence to put Tyler Robinson, the gentleman who has been accused of murdering, the name just Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. Thank you. M. All of a sudden just escaped me. Charlie Kirk. So this is not, the trial, Abe, what are they trying to find right now?
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. So each state, because we are the United States of America, each state has its own criminal jurisdictional regime. In some states, like the state of Texas, where I practiced, all felonies go through a probable cause hearing process through the grand jury process. In the state of Utah, they do not use the grand jury process primarily to make the probable cause determination. And felonies like this, the homicide of Charlie Kirk. So when the incident. When the incident occurred, Tyler Robinson was arrested, the state's attorneys filed what's called a bill of information. That is the formal charging document that informs Tyler Robinson what he's accused of and puts him on notice as what he can expect to be tried on once the probable cause of determination is made. In the state of Utah, defendants, which would be the charge parties, have the lawful right to. To require a preliminary hearing or to waive the preliminary hearing. Usually in jurisdictions like Utah, the defense attorney wants to have a preliminary hearing because it gets them the first shot to get the prosecution's evidence and testimony placed under oath.
Steve Jordahl It, simply stated, what they're finding out is, is there enough evidence to put Tyler Robinson on trial for what he's being charged with?
Abraham Hamilton III Is that what they're right. In a preliminary hearing, which is a hearing to determine whether probable cause exist. Probable cause is a legal terminology that simply means it is more likely than not. It's a 50, 51% versus 49% threshold. It's very low, very easy to meet. It's to determine whether or not it is more likely than not that Tyler Robinson is guilty of this crime. Is not the guilt innocence phase. It's not reasonable doubt. There is no jury. All of the evidence is presented before the judge, and the presiding judge will make a determination whether or not probable cause exists to proceed forward with the subsequent trial.
Wesley Wildmon I got a question.
Tyler Robinson and his attorney are trying to avoid the death penalty
All right. So, appreciate you explaining that, by the way. so Tyler Robinson for all, is trying to. His. Him and his attorney are trying to avoid the death penalty because that's what they're going after. Am I right?
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. The state filed the bill of information and expressed the intention to seek the death penalty upon a conviction in this case. Most likely, the entire scope of the defense is to try to mitigate punishment to avoid the death penalty, which would likely result in life without parole if he's convicted of this kid.
Wesley Wildmon And they said that day one at the press conference. Yes, that's what they were going to do for whoever it was.
Abraham Hamilton III And not only did they say it, but when they filed the bill of information, they included that information, the specific pursuit of the death penalty in the charging instrument that they filed in Utah.
Wesley Wildmon So then from a legal standpoint, how is it that if he. If he's convicted of being the assassin to Charlie Kirk, how is it that there can be a deal made, anything short of the death penalty?
Abraham Hamilton III Well, a deal can only be made if the state's attorney's office and Tyler Robinson and his defense attorney agree to make a deal. That would be the publicly elected state prosecutor in Utah with all of the national detention on this case, who say, oh, we're gonna offer a deal in this case.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. So it's not likely.
Abraham Hamilton III It's not very likely.
Wesley Wildmon But, but, but it, But I'm just. I perplexity that's a possibility.
Abraham Hamilton III Would only be. In my experience, when you have a death penalty capital punishment case, the deal would only be life without parole. You would agree. Greedy. Plead guilty to avoid the rigors of a trial. To spend the rest of your life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. It just disturbing to me that that's even a possibility. Assuming he. Whoever it is in this case, assuming Tyler Robinson. That he could get that the law. Or it allows for that to be an option. You, you know, I don't know. All right, what do you.
Ed Vitagliano What do you predict, Abe? I m. Mean, it's unfair. You're not.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You're never an attorney in Utah or anything like that.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Do you think that this is. It's going to be no deal from
Abraham Hamilton III the prosecutor's office when you have it. Again, the fact that it's a possibility is not synonymous with the likelihood.
Wesley Wildmon Okay.
Abraham Hamilton III The possibility just exists because you always want a full range of options depending on the. The particularities of the case. But a case like this, with all of the public attention, with the mountain of evidence that's even just been presented at preliminary, hearing. This is not even the full trial. With the type of evidence you have, I'm pretty confident, say, there will be no plea bargain, that this case is going to go to trial.
Ed Vitagliano How long would a case like this last a trial? Would this be a couple of weeks? Could this be a month?
Abraham Hamilton III Not necessarily, because usually preliminary hearings would be like no more than an hour or two.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III But because of the nature of this case, and I think the prosecution is aware, unfortunately, because of. I'm just gonna say crazy people like Candace Owens and others at the state understands that it needs to put on sufficient showing to allow even the crazies like Candace Owens, who said Tyler Robinson had never been on the campus. Well, they just showed video yesterday. She said that she had said. Oh, yeah, she said all kind of insane things. Well, they showed video yesterday. He was on the campus four times before Charlie Kirk had ever been shot and have him on video on. On the. On the campus.
Steve Jordahl She's been saying there's. There were Israeli jets that shot him. Yeah, it's the craziest.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. She also said that he didn't die of a gunshot wound, that it was an exploding microphone.
Donald Trump Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III well, they put on evidence from the medical examiner saying, no, the cause of death was a gunshot wound to Charlie Kirk's neck. After having examined the body, the ballistic evidence. So I think the prosecution is aware that they're not only putting on probable cause, they, for the court, they're also addressing all of the lies that have been percolating in. In the media, frankly, and in the keyboard warrior sphere.
Ed Vitagliano There's no dearth of crazy. Crazy m. Conspiracy theories out there, man.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. And I don't believe. I don't think they're trying to address every single one of them.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III But they want to make a sufficient showing to where any perceptions of this not being the appropriate prosecution, that they have the right suspect is completely blown out of the water even at this early stage.
Tim Wildmon there's a video of him climbing down or jumping off a building.
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. Climbing up and climbing down. They put on evidence to show the ladders right there. Is easily accessible because there's speculators out there saying there's no way anybody could have climbed to the top of that building. You'd have to have Spider man like, ability to hop up there. And the state is putting on evidence saying, no, no, here's a ladder. Here's the dude climbing up. Here's who climbing down that. it's perfectly.
Wesley Wildmon And, you know, with evidence. We all know now, with DNA, that's undeniable. And we got. Yesterday, I saw where there was DNA evidence of Tyler and his boyfriend on the towel that the gun was wrapped in.
Tyler Robinson says he was motivated by a cause and a purpose
I mean, so, yeah, Yeah.
Tim Wildmon I mean, I think Tyler. What's his last name?
Abraham Hamilton III Robinson.
Tim Wildmon I think he's. He's proud of the fact that he did this. I mean, he may not have said it like that, but I think that
Wesley Wildmon he did say, well, that may come
Tim Wildmon out because he did the world a,
Wesley Wildmon favor, according to his. You talking about, like, his text and his.
Tim Wildmon I mean, he had a. He had. He was driven by a cause and a purpose. This wasn't a. He wasn't a hired gun. Okay? That was indifferent. And now he's trying to get out of it, not be caught. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't say, listen, I did it, and I'm glad I did. Got rid of.
Steve Jordahl If his lawyers let him.
Tim Wildmon I got. Got rid of a night where he doesn't even have to wait on. Really. He can do it himself. I'm just saying. I wouldn't be. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't come to that. Where he goes, yes, judge, I killed Charlie, Kirk. And I. I'm glad I did, because, I mean, he is. Yeah, he thought this through. Now, maybe. Unless he were to say, okay, I was temporarily insane and I regret what I did. If he said something like that, his life might be spared. His physical life. He would still be in jail for.
Wesley Wildmon I can't remember off the top of my head, but he did have some, text or some email exchanges about how. How much he had to get rid of the hate in the world.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon That's what he was motivated by. I'm seeing a lot of people who are motivated by what they feel is a righteous cause. They don't. They don't deny it when they're caught. They. Yeah, I did it, and then I'm glad it did. You know?
Ed Vitagliano all I know is that I tried to use the temporary insanity plea at home. At home when I ate the leftover wit Chicken wings. And my wife didn't buy it.
Tim Wildmon It didn't work. That's a good, defense.
Abraham Hamilton III It's not accepted by the jury.
Ed Vitagliano It was not accepted.
Tim Wildmon I think that's a good analogy in dealing with the topic we're talking about is Ed.
Ed Vitagliano I'm not saying that what I did was anywhere near what he did. I'm talking about using the temporary insanity
Tim Wildmon plea to the bottom shelf.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Yeah, the lower shelf. Thank you, Abe.
Utah law requires a unanimous jury verdict in Tyler Robinson's death penalty case
Abraham Hamilton III One thing I want to say, the audience will be aware of the way this will unfold under Utah law is that the state will have to make the case that Tyler Robinson is. Did in fact commit the homicide and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury verdict. Then it would also have to include an affirmative presentation to the jury that Tyler Robinson satisfies one of the statutory aggravating factors to sustain a death penalty verdict. That would also have to be unanimously decided by the jury.
Ed Vitagliano Is that. Can you go through that quickly as to what the aggravating factors are?
Abraham Hamilton III Well, I can tell you the aggravating factor that was alleged in the bill of information was that Tyler Robinson's murder of Charlie Kirk also created great risk of death to persons other than Charlie Kirk. So his indiscriminate discharge of a firearm, in the presence of multiple people had the capacity of causing others lives to be jeopardized by his actions. And that's a part of the statutory factors. Then the state law also allows him to bring in additional aggravating circumstances that are not statutory. But you're bringing things like the prosecutors alleged today that Tyler Robinson was motivated because he wanted to shut up Charlie Kirk's political views. He opposed Charlie Kirk's faith. And those things will be added in as well. But the statutory factor alleged is creating a great risk to others in addition to the victim.
Ed Vitagliano You forget about that. That was, That was not an easy shot to take.
Tim Wildmon How far away was he?
Ed Vitagliano And. And you could have killed many other people.
Tim Wildmon How far away was three.
Wesley Wildmon 200 yards, I think that's right. 200 yards.
Abraham Hamilton III I remember.
Tim Wildmon That's. That's a long way. Now, maybe it's, not for a scope gun, is it? Okay. But it still is a long way for a bullet to travel.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. And you can't project what happens when. When have all kind of trajectories.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III I've had cases I've had when a bullet fired a ricochet off the ground from the ground, hit a victim, and murdered the victim. I had a prosecution for that specific, reason. In the case that I've handled.
Wesley Wildmon I know we need to get to Steve. He's got plenty of stories, but I'll just conclude with this.
Abraham Hamilton III: Tyler Robinson confessed to murdering his lover in text
our producer just sent this to us in a text, but there's text messages that are being released from Tyler Robinson and his lover. Different. Even more different than the ones we had originally. And these are showing where he confessed to doing it in text.
Tim Wildmon Yeah, he's got this guy's, toast, so to speak. I mean, it appears like he's gonna. I wouldn't be surprised if the judge said, you know, you're guilty of sin. He won't say that, probably, but you know what I'm saying? This is like he. I don't know. I don't know what his defense is gonna say. And this. They plead insanity.
Wesley Wildmon His. The lover, Tyler's lover, asked him in a text. Well, why did you do it? And he said, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano So I had enough of his. Of his hate, so I shot him.
Tim Wildmon Right, right.
Wesley Wildmon Well, good point.
Tim Wildmon Have you seen what we're dealing with here?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III and I mean, the word hate is thrown around far too easily in our culture. And the scripture tells us, where do murders derive from? Comes from the wickedness of the human heart.
Ed Vitagliano No.
Tim Wildmon Thank you, Abe. All right, appreciate it. Abraham Hamilton III there joining us.
President Trump brings up old claim about taking care of Greenland at NATO summit
Steve, what's your first story?
Steve Jordahl Well, you guys remember the movie Groundhog Day?
Ed Vitagliano Yes, I do.
Ben Shapiro I do.
Steve Jordahl President Trump is second day.
Ben Shapiro I do.
Tim Wildmon Sort of did there.
Steve Jordahl Yes, I do.
Tim Wildmon Okay.
Steve Jordahl President Trump is in, is at the NATO summit in, Turkey, the second day there, and he has, like a dog with a bone, brought up an old, old, claim of his. Let's listen to cut 19.
Donald Trump Greenland is very important for the United States, but it's not important for Denmark. In fact, when Denmark was overrun by the Nazis in less than one day, Hitler beat them out in one day, took over. They asked us to take care of Greenland. In fact, we took Greenland. And then, stupidly, we gave it back. We shouldn't have given it back to them, because we're the ones that need it. We need it for protection of the world, not just the United States. And it's very important. It doesn't help Denmark, but it helps us. And it's very important for us. And again, they were defeated, very quickly. Denmark was beaten in one day, less than one day, by the Nazis, by Hitler. And when this happened, they immediately switched it over to Us. We owned it. We had it. We were taking care of it, and then we gave it back, which is. I don't know why. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have given the Panama Canal back either, you know, so what do I know? I certainly wouldn't have done that because China is trying to take over the Panama Canal, and that's not going to happen.
Tim: Trying to get Tim worked up about Greenland again
Steve Jordahl Well, guess what's back in the news.
Ed Vitagliano So this was,
Tim Wildmon You're not going to Greenland. You're not going to Greenland. Bait me, Steve. Okay, I see what you're trying to do there. Trying to get Tim worked up about Greenland. I forgot the Greenland in my rear view mirror. Okay. I don't care if we take it or not.
Ed Vitagliano And Canada is the 51st.
Tim Wildmon yeah, Canada.
Tim Wildmon Well, I was thinking I do want to visit Canada soon, and it would be easier if I didn't have to have a passport.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Tim Wildmon You know, if I could just claim it as 51st state and going up there.
Steve Jordahl Right.
Tim Wildmon You know, go ahead, Steve. Is that enough? Greenland.
Steve Jordahl That's enough. Greenland. I just wanted to bring that back.
Tim Wildmon I didn't know the Nazis took Denmark in one day. Did you know this?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, well, I think that the parliament there, surrendered because they weren't going to be able to stop, and they
Steve Jordahl didn't want to have been destroying Copenhagen.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. I'm sorry. Dad was on my phone for. What are we talking about again?
Ed Vitagliano Well, he's just trying to. He's trying to wind you up again. You got your finger. You got your finger on the mute button.
Tim Wildmon Oh, I'm sorry. Anyway, I said I put Greenland in my rearview mirror. I think President Trump.
Wesley Wildmon I just want to hear you say Greenland again.
Ed Vitagliano He was probably asked about it, right? I mean, he didn't bring it up out of nowhere, did he?
Steve Jordahl I don't know.
Tim Wildmon I don't know that, you know, came up. I'll just say what my parents told me when I wanted to do something, but they didn't want to tell me. No, I'll just say, we'll see.
Donald Trump Yeah,
Tim Wildmon we'll see.
Ed Vitagliano Oh, yeah, M. I got a lot of that.
Tim Wildmon We'll see. He's been used by parents for.
Ed Vitagliano Actually, I don't think I.
Steve Jordahl Excuse me.
Ed Vitagliano Got a whole lot of will see. I think my dad just said, no. Deal with it.
Tim Wildmon Well, I got. I got. My mom would say we'll m. Yeah, my mom. Yeah, go ahead.
Another woman has come forward with allegations against Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner
Steve Jordahl The campaign of the Democrat Senate candidate in Maine. His name is Graham Platner. It contains continues to implode new charges they never quit with this guy. Another woman has come forward and said that he sexually molested or abused her. And, we can't go into some of the details, about this charge. Like, we can't go into so much that he has been accused of doing. This is the guy with a Nazi tattoo, in Maine.
Tim Wildmon In Maine. He's challenging Republican Susan Collins for that Senate se.
Steve Jordahl Yes. And, here's someone who was shocked to hear that something new came out. Let's listen to cut 10. And Jon Kennedy, with respect to the,
Katy Faust to Mr. Platner. He was nominated by the Hamas wing of the Democratic Party, which is in control with respect to the new allegations or revelations about him. I, of course, was, completely shocked. who could possibly have seen this coming? It's not like there were signs or something. I tell you who saw it coming. Every American who was paying attention and who has an IQ above a toaster knew that this. This guy's motherboard was fried. even my. My. My colleague, Senator Schumer, who can't even cook a cheeseburger, saw this coming.
Steve Jordahl A national treasure. Jon.
Ed Vitagliano Kid, that's Fred Jackson's favorite senator.
Tim Wildmon What did he say the motherboard was? Fried?
Wesley Wildmon Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Tim Wildmon All right. Is that some kind of computer analogy?
Ed Vitagliano That's what runs the computer.
Tim Wildmon Okay.
Ed Vitagliano Motherboard.
Tim Wildmon So his motherboard was fried, and if
Ed Vitagliano it gets fried, you're. You're.
Tim Wildmon Is that the same as a three, three five short of a Happy Meal?
Steve Jordahl That would be the same. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Same type thing.
Ed Vitagliano Two different types of metaphors. But if you say your. The motherboard was fried, that means you ain't got no brain, which is what,
Tim Wildmon a few fries short of a Happy Meal means, right? Your brain depleted.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon There's a crayon in the. In the box. Not the brightest crayon in the box.
Tim Wildmon sharpest knife in the drawer.
Ed Vitagliano That's a pretty good takedown. What do you say about the toaster?
Steve Jordahl Said anybody who has an IQ above a toaster.
Ed Vitagliano He is a gem.
Wesley Wildmon Oh, yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Senator Kennedy, national treasure. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Next story. Steve.
Tucker Carlson says he wants to start a new political party
Steve Jordahl All right, in the last couple days, we talk about the conspiracy theorists and the crazies. Well, we're, There's been some talk on behalf of, Man, names are just not doing well with me. Tucker Carlsen says he wants to start a new party. He says, a new political party. New political party. The Republicans. He's done with the Republican Party.
Tim Wildmon There's a new idea.
Steve Jordahl Yeah. And he's gotten. He's gotten someone like Marjorie Taylor Green to sign on to this idea. at least they're considering it. Let's listen to cut 15.
Tim Wildmon If we decide to align, we could launch a true, America focused party that could align some serious players from the right and the left.
Ben Shapiro You see why he's doing this? His friends are getting kicked out of the government. People like Marjorie Taylor Green or Joe Kent or Thomas Massie. And so he says he's going to start something new. Tucker has no intention of starting a third party. That is not his actual game. He's not going to do that. He's too lazy. To build a national infrastructure is extremely costly. It is very difficult. I hope Tucker launches a third party. Why? Because it'll get crushed. Third parties get crushed. I would love to see a clean referendum on Tucker's perverse views. Here's the game. Tucker sees that Republicans are probably going to have a bad 26. What he wants is to say that the reason that Republicans had a bad 26 is because they alienated key people like him. If you wish to win in 28, you need to shift the entire policy making direction of the party back in Tucker Carlsen's direction.
Steve Jordahl That's Ben Shapiro of the Daily Wire Analysis.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, listen, Ben Shapiro's exactly right on starting a third party. This is basically the Trump haters in the Republican Party who have gotten sent to the sidelines, sent to the principal's office.
Wesley Wildmon What big egos.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, and they do have big egos. But to Shapiro's point, you know, we've said this on the show before. It's not just about getting a third party presidential candidate out there. If you were to win as a third party presidential candidate, now you have a Congress that's got both parties against you. You not only have to win the White House, you can't win. You have to. Well, I'm just saying, even, even if you did.
Tim Wildmon You're saying even if you did win,
Ed Vitagliano even if you did win, you don't have a political party in Congress to pass your legislation. Third parties have to not only get a presidential candidate, they have to go state. And that's what he was talking about, infrastructure. You have to run people for office to get them in the House and the Senate so they can support your, the legislation you want to put forward. Third parties are notoriously difficult to start.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, yeah, I've heard, Tucker and others, Nick Fuentes and those guys, I've heard them in a pretty lengthy debate about their reasoning and how they plan on doing it. And, and it. You can't get past first, the first 10 minutes and you're going. You've already lost every. It's no chance.
Ed Vitagliano I tell you what you can do. You can get filthy rich.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You starting up third party effort because people there will be a certain segment
Wesley Wildmon of our side of Black Lives Matter.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, that's exactly what happened there with Black Lives Matter.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Ah, they got all these donations rolling in and then you can just go on vacation.
Ed Vitagliano Because they're not winning or buy houses.
Tim Wildmon Go ahead, Steve.
Kelsey Fendler rowed from Monterey to Hawaii in 44 days
Steve Jordahl All right. Congratulations to Kelsey Fendler. She's a woman. And set it a Guinness Book of World records for rowing to Hawaii from, the Monterey. From Monterey to Hawaii in 44 days.
Ed Vitagliano Monterey, California.
Steve Jordahl Monterey, California. 42 days. Sorry.
Ben Shapiro Wow.
Steve Jordahl That is better than eight days better than the men's record. And a whole. Oh, 44. A whole, 42 days better than a woman. The woman's record.
Tim Wildmon I did it in 63, so I got to give the guy credit.
Ed Vitagliano It's a girl.
Wesley Wildmon That's the gal.
Katy Faust Yeah.
Tim Wildmon I gotta give her credit.
Ed Vitagliano Yes.
Steve Jordahl You.
Ed Vitagliano You wrote it in 63 days, Tim.
Tim Wildmon I just know how hard it is doing 63 for her to go 44.
Ed Vitagliano 42.
Steve Jordahl 44. 42 days better than the women's world record.
Tim Wildmon I'm too old to try it again.
Steve Jordahl Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You know, well, maybe in tomorrow's show you can explain what that was like.
Wesley Wildmon Well, nowadays you can do an AI version.
Tim Wildmon I'll think about it again.
Ed Vitagliano Think about it again.
Tim Wildmon When I bring up stories like that, people say you're bragging. I'm bragging?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon They don't call you a liar, they just say you're bragging.
Ed Vitagliano It's important not to brag. That's a bad Christian trait, isn't it, Tim? right up there with lying.
Abraham Hamilton III That's it.
Tim Wildmon All right, we'll see you tomorrow, everybody.
Tim Wildman: Utah is holding a preliminary hearing for accused murderer Tyler Robinson
Ed Vitagliano Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.
Tim Wildmon Hey, welcome back, everybody, to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. We'll be here for 24 and a half more minutes on this July 8th. We thank you for listening to American Family Radio. I'm Tim with Ed and Wesley. And Abe's, held over here. And, he's not hungover. People. Do not start. Don't out say Tim said Abe was hungover. You misheard me. I said he's remained in the studio, I should say. And Steve Paisley Jordal.
Steve Jordahl Hey, everybody.
Tim Wildmon Steve. Abe stayed on because there's a big news story that we wanted him to comment on. Go ahead and take it away.
Steve Jordahl Well, there is a trial. It's a preliminary hearing right now in Utah to find out if there's enough evidence to put Tyler Robinson, the gentleman who has been accused of murdering, the name just Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. Thank you. M. All of a sudden just escaped me. Charlie Kirk. So this is not, the trial, Abe, what are they trying to find right now?
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. So each state, because we are the United States of America, each state has its own criminal jurisdictional regime. In some states, like the state of Texas, where I practiced, all felonies go through a probable cause hearing process through the grand jury process. In the state of Utah, they do not use the grand jury process primarily to make the probable cause determination. And felonies like this, the homicide of Charlie Kirk. So when the incident. When the incident occurred, Tyler Robinson was arrested, the state's attorneys filed what's called a bill of information. That is the formal charging document that informs Tyler Robinson what he's accused of and puts him on notice as what he can expect to be tried on once the probable cause of determination is made. In the state of Utah, defendants, which would be the charge parties, have the lawful right to. To require a preliminary hearing or to waive the preliminary hearing. Usually in jurisdictions like Utah, the defense attorney wants to have a preliminary hearing because it gets them the first shot to get the prosecution's evidence and testimony placed under oath.
Steve Jordahl It, simply stated, what they're finding out is, is there enough evidence to put Tyler Robinson on trial for what he's being charged with?
Abraham Hamilton III Is that what they're right. In a preliminary hearing, which is a hearing to determine whether probable cause exist. Probable cause is a legal terminology that simply means it is more likely than not. It's a 50, 51% versus 49% threshold. It's very low, very easy to meet. It's to determine whether or not it is more likely than not that Tyler Robinson is guilty of this crime. Is not the guilt innocence phase. It's not reasonable doubt. There is no jury. All of the evidence is presented before the judge, and the presiding judge will make a determination whether or not probable cause exists to proceed forward with the subsequent trial.
Wesley Wildmon I got a question.
Tyler Robinson and his attorney are trying to avoid the death penalty
All right. So, appreciate you explaining that, by the way. so Tyler Robinson for all, is trying to. His. Him and his attorney are trying to avoid the death penalty because that's what they're going after. Am I right?
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. The state filed the bill of information and expressed the intention to seek the death penalty upon a conviction in this case. Most likely, the entire scope of the defense is to try to mitigate punishment to avoid the death penalty, which would likely result in life without parole if he's convicted of this kid.
Wesley Wildmon And they said that day one at the press conference. Yes, that's what they were going to do for whoever it was.
Abraham Hamilton III And not only did they say it, but when they filed the bill of information, they included that information, the specific pursuit of the death penalty in the charging instrument that they filed in Utah.
Wesley Wildmon So then from a legal standpoint, how is it that if he. If he's convicted of being the assassin to Charlie Kirk, how is it that there can be a deal made, anything short of the death penalty?
Abraham Hamilton III Well, a deal can only be made if the state's attorney's office and Tyler Robinson and his defense attorney agree to make a deal. That would be the publicly elected state prosecutor in Utah with all of the national detention on this case, who say, oh, we're gonna offer a deal in this case.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. So it's not likely.
Abraham Hamilton III It's not very likely.
Wesley Wildmon But, but, but it, But I'm just. I perplexity that's a possibility.
Abraham Hamilton III Would only be. In my experience, when you have a death penalty capital punishment case, the deal would only be life without parole. You would agree. Greedy. Plead guilty to avoid the rigors of a trial. To spend the rest of your life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. It just disturbing to me that that's even a possibility. Assuming he. Whoever it is in this case, assuming Tyler Robinson. That he could get that the law. Or it allows for that to be an option. You, you know, I don't know. All right, what do you.
Ed Vitagliano What do you predict, Abe? I m. Mean, it's unfair. You're not.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You're never an attorney in Utah or anything like that.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Do you think that this is. It's going to be no deal from
Abraham Hamilton III the prosecutor's office when you have it. Again, the fact that it's a possibility is not synonymous with the likelihood.
Wesley Wildmon Okay.
Abraham Hamilton III The possibility just exists because you always want a full range of options depending on the. The particularities of the case. But a case like this, with all of the public attention, with the mountain of evidence that's even just been presented at preliminary, hearing. This is not even the full trial. With the type of evidence you have, I'm pretty confident, say, there will be no plea bargain, that this case is going to go to trial.
Ed Vitagliano How long would a case like this last a trial? Would this be a couple of weeks? Could this be a month?
Abraham Hamilton III Not necessarily, because usually preliminary hearings would be like no more than an hour or two.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III But because of the nature of this case, and I think the prosecution is aware, unfortunately, because of. I'm just gonna say crazy people like Candace Owens and others at the state understands that it needs to put on sufficient showing to allow even the crazies like Candace Owens, who said Tyler Robinson had never been on the campus. Well, they just showed video yesterday. She said that she had said. Oh, yeah, she said all kind of insane things. Well, they showed video yesterday. He was on the campus four times before Charlie Kirk had ever been shot and have him on video on. On the. On the campus.
Steve Jordahl She's been saying there's. There were Israeli jets that shot him. Yeah, it's the craziest.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. She also said that he didn't die of a gunshot wound, that it was an exploding microphone.
Donald Trump Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III well, they put on evidence from the medical examiner saying, no, the cause of death was a gunshot wound to Charlie Kirk's neck. After having examined the body, the ballistic evidence. So I think the prosecution is aware that they're not only putting on probable cause, they, for the court, they're also addressing all of the lies that have been percolating in. In the media, frankly, and in the keyboard warrior sphere.
Ed Vitagliano There's no dearth of crazy. Crazy m. Conspiracy theories out there, man.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. And I don't believe. I don't think they're trying to address every single one of them.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III But they want to make a sufficient showing to where any perceptions of this not being the appropriate prosecution, that they have the right suspect is completely blown out of the water even at this early stage.
Tim Wildmon there's a video of him climbing down or jumping off a building.
Abraham Hamilton III Yes. Climbing up and climbing down. They put on evidence to show the ladders right there. Is easily accessible because there's speculators out there saying there's no way anybody could have climbed to the top of that building. You'd have to have Spider man like, ability to hop up there. And the state is putting on evidence saying, no, no, here's a ladder. Here's the dude climbing up. Here's who climbing down that. it's perfectly.
Wesley Wildmon And, you know, with evidence. We all know now, with DNA, that's undeniable. And we got. Yesterday, I saw where there was DNA evidence of Tyler and his boyfriend on the towel that the gun was wrapped in.
Tyler Robinson says he was motivated by a cause and a purpose
I mean, so, yeah, Yeah.
Tim Wildmon I mean, I think Tyler. What's his last name?
Abraham Hamilton III Robinson.
Tim Wildmon I think he's. He's proud of the fact that he did this. I mean, he may not have said it like that, but I think that
Wesley Wildmon he did say, well, that may come
Tim Wildmon out because he did the world a,
Wesley Wildmon favor, according to his. You talking about, like, his text and his.
Tim Wildmon I mean, he had a. He had. He was driven by a cause and a purpose. This wasn't a. He wasn't a hired gun. Okay? That was indifferent. And now he's trying to get out of it, not be caught. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't say, listen, I did it, and I'm glad I did. Got rid of.
Steve Jordahl If his lawyers let him.
Tim Wildmon I got. Got rid of a night where he doesn't even have to wait on. Really. He can do it himself. I'm just saying. I wouldn't be. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't come to that. Where he goes, yes, judge, I killed Charlie, Kirk. And I. I'm glad I did, because, I mean, he is. Yeah, he thought this through. Now, maybe. Unless he were to say, okay, I was temporarily insane and I regret what I did. If he said something like that, his life might be spared. His physical life. He would still be in jail for.
Wesley Wildmon I can't remember off the top of my head, but he did have some, text or some email exchanges about how. How much he had to get rid of the hate in the world.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon That's what he was motivated by. I'm seeing a lot of people who are motivated by what they feel is a righteous cause. They don't. They don't deny it when they're caught. They. Yeah, I did it, and then I'm glad it did. You know?
Ed Vitagliano all I know is that I tried to use the temporary insanity plea at home. At home when I ate the leftover wit Chicken wings. And my wife didn't buy it.
Tim Wildmon It didn't work. That's a good, defense.
Abraham Hamilton III It's not accepted by the jury.
Ed Vitagliano It was not accepted.
Tim Wildmon I think that's a good analogy in dealing with the topic we're talking about is Ed.
Ed Vitagliano I'm not saying that what I did was anywhere near what he did. I'm talking about using the temporary insanity
Tim Wildmon plea to the bottom shelf.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Yeah, the lower shelf. Thank you, Abe.
Utah law requires a unanimous jury verdict in Tyler Robinson's death penalty case
Abraham Hamilton III One thing I want to say, the audience will be aware of the way this will unfold under Utah law is that the state will have to make the case that Tyler Robinson is. Did in fact commit the homicide and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury verdict. Then it would also have to include an affirmative presentation to the jury that Tyler Robinson satisfies one of the statutory aggravating factors to sustain a death penalty verdict. That would also have to be unanimously decided by the jury.
Ed Vitagliano Is that. Can you go through that quickly as to what the aggravating factors are?
Abraham Hamilton III Well, I can tell you the aggravating factor that was alleged in the bill of information was that Tyler Robinson's murder of Charlie Kirk also created great risk of death to persons other than Charlie Kirk. So his indiscriminate discharge of a firearm, in the presence of multiple people had the capacity of causing others lives to be jeopardized by his actions. And that's a part of the statutory factors. Then the state law also allows him to bring in additional aggravating circumstances that are not statutory. But you're bringing things like the prosecutors alleged today that Tyler Robinson was motivated because he wanted to shut up Charlie Kirk's political views. He opposed Charlie Kirk's faith. And those things will be added in as well. But the statutory factor alleged is creating a great risk to others in addition to the victim.
Ed Vitagliano You forget about that. That was, That was not an easy shot to take.
Tim Wildmon How far away was he?
Ed Vitagliano And. And you could have killed many other people.
Tim Wildmon How far away was three.
Wesley Wildmon 200 yards, I think that's right. 200 yards.
Abraham Hamilton III I remember.
Tim Wildmon That's. That's a long way. Now, maybe it's, not for a scope gun, is it? Okay. But it still is a long way for a bullet to travel.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah. And you can't project what happens when. When have all kind of trajectories.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III I've had cases I've had when a bullet fired a ricochet off the ground from the ground, hit a victim, and murdered the victim. I had a prosecution for that specific, reason. In the case that I've handled.
Wesley Wildmon I know we need to get to Steve. He's got plenty of stories, but I'll just conclude with this.
Abraham Hamilton III: Tyler Robinson confessed to murdering his lover in text
our producer just sent this to us in a text, but there's text messages that are being released from Tyler Robinson and his lover. Different. Even more different than the ones we had originally. And these are showing where he confessed to doing it in text.
Tim Wildmon Yeah, he's got this guy's, toast, so to speak. I mean, it appears like he's gonna. I wouldn't be surprised if the judge said, you know, you're guilty of sin. He won't say that, probably, but you know what I'm saying? This is like he. I don't know. I don't know what his defense is gonna say. And this. They plead insanity.
Wesley Wildmon His. The lover, Tyler's lover, asked him in a text. Well, why did you do it? And he said, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano So I had enough of his. Of his hate, so I shot him.
Tim Wildmon Right, right.
Wesley Wildmon Well, good point.
Tim Wildmon Have you seen what we're dealing with here?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Abraham Hamilton III and I mean, the word hate is thrown around far too easily in our culture. And the scripture tells us, where do murders derive from? Comes from the wickedness of the human heart.
Ed Vitagliano No.
Tim Wildmon Thank you, Abe. All right, appreciate it. Abraham Hamilton III there joining us.
President Trump brings up old claim about taking care of Greenland at NATO summit
Steve, what's your first story?
Steve Jordahl Well, you guys remember the movie Groundhog Day?
Ed Vitagliano Yes, I do.
Ben Shapiro I do.
Steve Jordahl President Trump is second day.
Ben Shapiro I do.
Tim Wildmon Sort of did there.
Steve Jordahl Yes, I do.
Tim Wildmon Okay.
Steve Jordahl President Trump is in, is at the NATO summit in, Turkey, the second day there, and he has, like a dog with a bone, brought up an old, old, claim of his. Let's listen to cut 19.
Donald Trump Greenland is very important for the United States, but it's not important for Denmark. In fact, when Denmark was overrun by the Nazis in less than one day, Hitler beat them out in one day, took over. They asked us to take care of Greenland. In fact, we took Greenland. And then, stupidly, we gave it back. We shouldn't have given it back to them, because we're the ones that need it. We need it for protection of the world, not just the United States. And it's very important. It doesn't help Denmark, but it helps us. And it's very important for us. And again, they were defeated, very quickly. Denmark was beaten in one day, less than one day, by the Nazis, by Hitler. And when this happened, they immediately switched it over to Us. We owned it. We had it. We were taking care of it, and then we gave it back, which is. I don't know why. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have given the Panama Canal back either, you know, so what do I know? I certainly wouldn't have done that because China is trying to take over the Panama Canal, and that's not going to happen.
Tim: Trying to get Tim worked up about Greenland again
Steve Jordahl Well, guess what's back in the news.
Ed Vitagliano So this was,
Tim Wildmon You're not going to Greenland. You're not going to Greenland. Bait me, Steve. Okay, I see what you're trying to do there. Trying to get Tim worked up about Greenland. I forgot the Greenland in my rear view mirror. Okay. I don't care if we take it or not.
Ed Vitagliano And Canada is the 51st.
Tim Wildmon yeah, Canada.
Tim Wildmon Well, I was thinking I do want to visit Canada soon, and it would be easier if I didn't have to have a passport.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Tim Wildmon You know, if I could just claim it as 51st state and going up there.
Steve Jordahl Right.
Tim Wildmon You know, go ahead, Steve. Is that enough? Greenland.
Steve Jordahl That's enough. Greenland. I just wanted to bring that back.
Tim Wildmon I didn't know the Nazis took Denmark in one day. Did you know this?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, well, I think that the parliament there, surrendered because they weren't going to be able to stop, and they
Steve Jordahl didn't want to have been destroying Copenhagen.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. I'm sorry. Dad was on my phone for. What are we talking about again?
Ed Vitagliano Well, he's just trying to. He's trying to wind you up again. You got your finger. You got your finger on the mute button.
Tim Wildmon Oh, I'm sorry. Anyway, I said I put Greenland in my rearview mirror. I think President Trump.
Wesley Wildmon I just want to hear you say Greenland again.
Ed Vitagliano He was probably asked about it, right? I mean, he didn't bring it up out of nowhere, did he?
Steve Jordahl I don't know.
Tim Wildmon I don't know that, you know, came up. I'll just say what my parents told me when I wanted to do something, but they didn't want to tell me. No, I'll just say, we'll see.
Donald Trump Yeah,
Tim Wildmon we'll see.
Ed Vitagliano Oh, yeah, M. I got a lot of that.
Tim Wildmon We'll see. He's been used by parents for.
Ed Vitagliano Actually, I don't think I.
Steve Jordahl Excuse me.
Ed Vitagliano Got a whole lot of will see. I think my dad just said, no. Deal with it.
Tim Wildmon Well, I got. I got. My mom would say we'll m. Yeah, my mom. Yeah, go ahead.
Another woman has come forward with allegations against Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner
Steve Jordahl The campaign of the Democrat Senate candidate in Maine. His name is Graham Platner. It contains continues to implode new charges they never quit with this guy. Another woman has come forward and said that he sexually molested or abused her. And, we can't go into some of the details, about this charge. Like, we can't go into so much that he has been accused of doing. This is the guy with a Nazi tattoo, in Maine.
Tim Wildmon In Maine. He's challenging Republican Susan Collins for that Senate se.
Steve Jordahl Yes. And, here's someone who was shocked to hear that something new came out. Let's listen to cut 10. And Jon Kennedy, with respect to the,
Katy Faust to Mr. Platner. He was nominated by the Hamas wing of the Democratic Party, which is in control with respect to the new allegations or revelations about him. I, of course, was, completely shocked. who could possibly have seen this coming? It's not like there were signs or something. I tell you who saw it coming. Every American who was paying attention and who has an IQ above a toaster knew that this. This guy's motherboard was fried. even my. My. My colleague, Senator Schumer, who can't even cook a cheeseburger, saw this coming.
Steve Jordahl A national treasure. Jon.
Ed Vitagliano Kid, that's Fred Jackson's favorite senator.
Tim Wildmon What did he say the motherboard was? Fried?
Wesley Wildmon Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Tim Wildmon All right. Is that some kind of computer analogy?
Ed Vitagliano That's what runs the computer.
Tim Wildmon Okay.
Ed Vitagliano Motherboard.
Tim Wildmon So his motherboard was fried, and if
Ed Vitagliano it gets fried, you're. You're.
Tim Wildmon Is that the same as a three, three five short of a Happy Meal?
Steve Jordahl That would be the same. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Same type thing.
Ed Vitagliano Two different types of metaphors. But if you say your. The motherboard was fried, that means you ain't got no brain, which is what,
Tim Wildmon a few fries short of a Happy Meal means, right? Your brain depleted.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon There's a crayon in the. In the box. Not the brightest crayon in the box.
Tim Wildmon sharpest knife in the drawer.
Ed Vitagliano That's a pretty good takedown. What do you say about the toaster?
Steve Jordahl Said anybody who has an IQ above a toaster.
Ed Vitagliano He is a gem.
Wesley Wildmon Oh, yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Senator Kennedy, national treasure. Yeah.
Tim Wildmon Next story. Steve.
Tucker Carlson says he wants to start a new political party
Steve Jordahl All right, in the last couple days, we talk about the conspiracy theorists and the crazies. Well, we're, There's been some talk on behalf of, Man, names are just not doing well with me. Tucker Carlsen says he wants to start a new party. He says, a new political party. New political party. The Republicans. He's done with the Republican Party.
Tim Wildmon There's a new idea.
Steve Jordahl Yeah. And he's gotten. He's gotten someone like Marjorie Taylor Green to sign on to this idea. at least they're considering it. Let's listen to cut 15.
Tim Wildmon If we decide to align, we could launch a true, America focused party that could align some serious players from the right and the left.
Ben Shapiro You see why he's doing this? His friends are getting kicked out of the government. People like Marjorie Taylor Green or Joe Kent or Thomas Massie. And so he says he's going to start something new. Tucker has no intention of starting a third party. That is not his actual game. He's not going to do that. He's too lazy. To build a national infrastructure is extremely costly. It is very difficult. I hope Tucker launches a third party. Why? Because it'll get crushed. Third parties get crushed. I would love to see a clean referendum on Tucker's perverse views. Here's the game. Tucker sees that Republicans are probably going to have a bad 26. What he wants is to say that the reason that Republicans had a bad 26 is because they alienated key people like him. If you wish to win in 28, you need to shift the entire policy making direction of the party back in Tucker Carlsen's direction.
Steve Jordahl That's Ben Shapiro of the Daily Wire Analysis.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, listen, Ben Shapiro's exactly right on starting a third party. This is basically the Trump haters in the Republican Party who have gotten sent to the sidelines, sent to the principal's office.
Wesley Wildmon What big egos.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, and they do have big egos. But to Shapiro's point, you know, we've said this on the show before. It's not just about getting a third party presidential candidate out there. If you were to win as a third party presidential candidate, now you have a Congress that's got both parties against you. You not only have to win the White House, you can't win. You have to. Well, I'm just saying, even, even if you did.
Tim Wildmon You're saying even if you did win,
Ed Vitagliano even if you did win, you don't have a political party in Congress to pass your legislation. Third parties have to not only get a presidential candidate, they have to go state. And that's what he was talking about, infrastructure. You have to run people for office to get them in the House and the Senate so they can support your, the legislation you want to put forward. Third parties are notoriously difficult to start.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, yeah, I've heard, Tucker and others, Nick Fuentes and those guys, I've heard them in a pretty lengthy debate about their reasoning and how they plan on doing it. And, and it. You can't get past first, the first 10 minutes and you're going. You've already lost every. It's no chance.
Ed Vitagliano I tell you what you can do. You can get filthy rich.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You starting up third party effort because people there will be a certain segment
Wesley Wildmon of our side of Black Lives Matter.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, that's exactly what happened there with Black Lives Matter.
Abraham Hamilton III Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Ah, they got all these donations rolling in and then you can just go on vacation.
Ed Vitagliano Because they're not winning or buy houses.
Tim Wildmon Go ahead, Steve.
Kelsey Fendler rowed from Monterey to Hawaii in 44 days
Steve Jordahl All right. Congratulations to Kelsey Fendler. She's a woman. And set it a Guinness Book of World records for rowing to Hawaii from, the Monterey. From Monterey to Hawaii in 44 days.
Ed Vitagliano Monterey, California.
Steve Jordahl Monterey, California. 42 days. Sorry.
Ben Shapiro Wow.
Steve Jordahl That is better than eight days better than the men's record. And a whole. Oh, 44. A whole, 42 days better than a woman. The woman's record.
Tim Wildmon I did it in 63, so I got to give the guy credit.
Ed Vitagliano It's a girl.
Wesley Wildmon That's the gal.
Katy Faust Yeah.
Tim Wildmon I gotta give her credit.
Ed Vitagliano Yes.
Steve Jordahl You.
Ed Vitagliano You wrote it in 63 days, Tim.
Tim Wildmon I just know how hard it is doing 63 for her to go 44.
Ed Vitagliano 42.
Steve Jordahl 44. 42 days better than the women's world record.
Tim Wildmon I'm too old to try it again.
Steve Jordahl Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano You know, well, maybe in tomorrow's show you can explain what that was like.
Wesley Wildmon Well, nowadays you can do an AI version.
Tim Wildmon I'll think about it again.
Ed Vitagliano Think about it again.
Tim Wildmon When I bring up stories like that, people say you're bragging. I'm bragging?
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon They don't call you a liar, they just say you're bragging.
Ed Vitagliano It's important not to brag. That's a bad Christian trait, isn't it, Tim? right up there with lying.
Abraham Hamilton III That's it.
Tim Wildmon All right, we'll see you tomorrow, everybody.
Tim, Ed and Wesley talk with Steve on top news headlines of the day. Also, Abraham Hamilton III joins the program to discuss his thoughts on Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing.
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