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Every day, AFA offers biblical insight on issues that others aren't willing to touch in the hopes that you'll become a world changer. That's why we're offering an in depth worldview training course called Activate. Thirteen different professors teaching 18 sessions, all available online, including a printed workbook to help you apply what you've learned and one year access to AFA streaming content to give you even more resources. Find out more about Acctivate and sign up today at Acctivate.AFA.net welcome to today's Issues. Join us for the next hour as we offer a Christian response to the
Tim Wildmon issues of the day.
Ed Vitagliano filling in for Tim Wildman on Today's Issues
Here's your host, Ed Vitagliano,
Ed Vitagliano and welcome to Today's Issues. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today. Lord willing, he will be back in the captain's chair tomorrow. I am joined in studio by Fred Jackson. Good morning, Fred.
Fred Jackson Good morning to you, Ed.
Ed Vitagliano Wesley Wildmon, M. Good morning.
Wesley Wildmon Glad to be here.
Ed Vitagliano I'm not sure they could hear you tap and doing the drum roll on the.
Wesley Wildmon And it was off cadence, so it's probably a good thing.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. and then Krish Woodward is our news guy today. Hello. Yes. There's Chris's, overly enthusiastic reaction.
Fred Jackson Too much coffee. Too much coffee.
Ed Vitagliano Sugar coffee.
Wesley Wildmon And it's hump day.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. And it's y.
Speaker F Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Hump day.
Chris Woodward Real sugar, not just fake stuff.
Ed Vitagliano Pay week. We get paid.
Fred Jackson Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Amen.
Wesley Wildmon A lot of. A lot of good things this week.
Ed Vitagliano A lot of good things. It's September.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano I mean, we are headed towards cooler weather. I'm not sure how long it'll take.
Wesley Wildmon Mississippi. We got another month.
Speaker H Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Maybe more.
Speaker F Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano I remember wearing shorts at Christmas on a number of occasions. That just ain't right.
Chris Woodward Fall is our best 13 days of non consecutive weather between Boxing Day and Martin Luther King day.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, 13 days. That's about right. Same thing with spring. We're lucky if we get two weeks of spring before the temperatures just drops off the table or goes up the heat.
Wesley Wildmon The heat in Mississippi was late to the game, though, because June was pretty decent.
Fred Jackson Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon But, we all knew August was coming.
Ed Vitagliano We've paid the price since then.
Wesley Wildmon That's right. Now we're in deception, but got football around the weather. And we're talking about us a good bit here. What about our audience? What do we got for our audience today? We got. We got a guest.
Ed Vitagliano Well, we do have a guest at, 10:30. Jenna Ellis will be on with us. We're gonna be talking some legal stuff with her, Jenna is host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am Central Time on AFR. And she's also host of the On Demand podcast [email protected] I think we're gonna, we're gonna do a little update here, in just a few minutes on the Lindsey Clancy trial. We are gonna just mention, that and see what Jenna thinks about that. And then Krish, what else are we gonna talk to her about?
Chris Woodward Yes, there is a, big case that I have a story on today. the Beckett law Firm is representing InterVarsity, which is a faith based club on many college campuses. They're in a dispute with a college in NewSong York, the faith based group, to allow anybody and everybody to not only be a part of the group, but to be able to run for leadership positions in the faith based organization, which of course a faith based organization would have an issue with. you know, I wouldn't expect the atheist group to have me, a Baptist, be the president of the group.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Chris Woodward so that's kind of the argument here and it's one of many cases that have taken place across the country.
Ed Vitagliano All right, so we'll be talking to Jennas, Jenna about those two issues. the bottom of the hour. You want to hang around and hear what she has to say.
Iran fires on its Gulf neighbors after US military strikes in Iran
All right, what else we got?
Chris Woodward Let's begin with, the Iran situation. because, Iran has fired on its Gulf neighbors after US military strikes in Iran. the ceasefire is pretty much non existent. It has been for days, if not a couple of weeks now. And we have a story about this on our website this morning on afn.net, the headline is Iran fires on its Gulf neighbors after US Military strikes. Iran. all of this started playing out in the last, 24 hours or so. I do have some audio here of Secretary of State Marco Rubio talking about the situation and what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker F Clip one, that ship in many ways has sailed, no pun intended, with regards to the straits. Because if you think about it as a moment, I mean at the core issue here is they're never going to have a nuclear weapon. I have to remind people that continuously this is all about the fact that they want to possess a nuclear weapon and threaten the world with it. And we'll never allow that to happen. We reserve the right, as we said, to take military action when necessary. Not just to protect ourselves, but to prevent them, from being able to threaten others as well.
Ed Vitagliano You know, Fred, I Have to believe that the other neighbors, Iranian neighbors in the Middle east, many of whom are allies, of the U.S. saudi Arabia, Jordan, I guess allies is okay word to use. I don't think they want Iran to get a nuclear weapon either. The question is, can we be successful and keeping them from getting one?
Fred Jackson Well, I think we are for the moment. what I've heard is that, at least we set them back 10, 20 years in that. But honestly, I think the, focus of the battle, between the United States and Iran has moved from ensuring not a nuclear weapon to ensuring ships can leave through the Strait of Hormuz. Oil has become the big issue here. And oil, if you talk to most Americans today, every time they go to fill up their car, their truck with gasoline, they see the prices varying, going up, coming down a little bit, going up again. That's what the American people are talking about. the United States has to find some way. Now, I know the President has given assurances that the United States controls the Strait of Hormuzz, and for the most part, I think that is true. But we also know, even in the last few days, that there have been ships that have encountered both missile attacks. Ships going through the Strait of Hormuz, a missile attack, but also there are still those mines that are out there. Those mines may have been floating around for weeks, but they're still deadly. so if you're a captain of a ship, you're very mindful of that kind of thing. So I think the focus now, and what you hear, hear the President talking more about these days, is, we have control of the Strait of Hormuz. The Iranians are saying, no, we're not allowing that. So that's why you're having this toing and froing going on right now. The other night, we hit an island that is an area known to have missile launching in the vicinity of where those ships travel. So that's the big issue right now. the blockade is still in place. And my prediction is that blockade is going to be there for a long while.
Ed Vitagliano Well, and that, island is not Carg island, because that's further up to the north, northwest, where they do a lot of their, refinery. Refinery. And where, these ships pick up their oil. the island they hit was Laroch, I think. And that's very close to where the Strait of Hormuz, where that kind of peninsula south of Iran juts into, and basically causes that. That strait. So that's the one you would, you would think that's the one that they would use to strike at ships coming because it's at the narrowest part of the Strait of Hormuz.
Chris Woodward I'm looking at the price of oil right now. It's about 91 bucks a barrel. That's up a few dollars from the last couple of days and it's presumably going to continue to trend upward. meanwhile, the price of a regular gallon of gas is $4.12. That's a dollar more than it was this time last year. If you are a diesel customer, God bless you. because the average price for a diesel today $5.68, $2 more than this time last year.
Ed Vitagliano Well, and Wesley, one of the problems with that, I don't drive a diesel. I did several years back.
Wesley Wildmon But a lot of big equipment, a
Ed Vitagliano lot of big equipment. A lot of farmers need this. They also need the potash, potash and potash. And always we say potash, potash. you know, truckers drive the transport, groceries and everything else. We need VR highway system. They're reliant on diesel. So that does help also drive the prices up that we're all experiencing.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, you know, the biggest problem here is that President Trump and his administration and those that helped him run for office, run the third time but make it in the office the second time, promise no forever wars. Yeah. And we've done a really, he's done a great job. In fact, he's done a lot of really quick military missions that lasted within a day or two or three and in and out. while he was provoked then and said by the left. Well, we said no wars, but it was already done.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon but in this particular case with the Iran situation, this has gone on for, since February, is that right? Yeah. So we're way past the three month mark, which was what I, you know, I said after three months. I, you know, I wanted, as a voter for President Trump, I'd like to, I'd like to see us wrap it up. But there's, there's no exit plan and ah, so this is only, this is only going to become a more of a problem and it's, and it's hard to, it's not hard, it's impossible to defend if you're a Republican. So I'm hoping that I guess every day you wake up and hope that you're looking for an exit plan because I don't think there's any more that you can do as far as the original plan, although that was a little bit confusing as well at the beginning. But as far as the plan from the very beginning, I don't know how much more of that you can accomplish. but I will say this. At any point, when he pulls out and comes home, I'm happy with what we've done thus far. I just, I think at this point it's time to come home. Because the, what we just mentioned, one of the side effects of what we're dealing with here, and that's the fuel prices going up, and that's going to obviously have a ripple effect on the way everyday Americans live.
Speaker H So.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Judge yesterday sent the Charlie Kirk murder trial to trial with Tyler Robinson facing death penalty
All right, next story. Krish.
Chris Woodward Yesterday, a judge in Utah sent the Charlie Kirk murder trial to, murder case to trial, with the defendant, Tyler Robinson, facing a potential death penalty. This is the, A lot of people have been confused, by what's been taking place in court. Basically what's been happening up until this decision from a judge yesterday is whether or not the case should proceed to trial, whether the prosecutors had enough evidence to bring Tyler Robinson to trial. Of course, Tyler Robinson turned himself in. His parents urged him to turn himself in. They never at any point said, you've got the wrong guy. there's been all kinds of evidence that the, prosecution presented to court. and so yesterday the judge, after months of, ongoing events in court, did say, hey, this should go to trial. There's several bits of audio to go over here. Let's just begin with the judge himself, Tony Graff, on the probable cause to pursue aggravated murder charge. Clip 2.
Ed Vitagliano Viewed in the light most favorable to the prosecution, this evidence is sufficient at this stage to support a reasonable belief that defendant is the individual who shot and killed Charlie Kirk. Accordingly, the state has demonstrated probable cause as to the identity and homicide elements of count one.
Chris Woodward That's just one piece of this story here. What is, I think a bigger story is the comments I'm about to call for involving the defense attorney, the attorney for Tyler Robinson, who said basically, Charlie Kirk is to blame for the shooting of Charlie Kirk, based on the things he said on campuses and on the campaign trails, stuff like that. Here is defense attorney Richard Novak. Clip 3.
Ed Vitagliano The state has utterly failed to prove that there's a particular political expression that Mr. Robinson took issue with. We all know, because we live in the real world, the kinds of things that Mr. Kirk said which some people find hateful. Okay, well, so his, his defense, how does that play into his defense?
Chris Woodward People have interpreted that as the Defense attorney as saying Charlie Kirk had it coming.
Ed Vitagliano Well, that's. Listen, if that's the strategy of Tyler Robinson's attorney, defense attorney, he should be fired.
Chris Woodward Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Because you cannot argue, Fred. You can't. You can't argue before a, panel of your peers, a jury of your peers, that, yes, Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk, but Charlie Kirk said hateful things. I'm not sure I'm following the reasoning here.
Fred Jackson Here's a prediction. I've been wrong before. This preliminary hearing has gone on for a year because the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's death assassination is next Thursday, a week from tomorrow. So the preliminary hearing has gone on and on and on. Here's my prediction. right now, as it stands, as you heard the judge in the case that, if he's found guilty, as things stand right now, he gets the death penalty, or the death penalty is on the table, I believe, that Tyler Robinson's going to sit down with his lawyers and they're going to work out a plea agreement. they wanted to go right up to the doorstep with this in the preliminary hearing. they know if it goes to trial as it is right now, that he's going to be found guilty. I mean, you know, the DNA evidence, the testimony from Tyler Robinson's boyfriend. You know, I talked to Tyler Robinson on the phone. He basically confessed. He's doing it.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Fred Jackson So, they don't have a case to find him not guilty. They know that. So they're going to plea this thing down as far as they can get.
Ed Vitagliano Try to get life in prison.
Fred Jackson Try to get life in prison. That's where this is going. The next appearance, the next formal court appearance is scheduled for sometime in October. I'm not even sure we're going to get to that. I think they'll go after the prosecution, try to get a plea agreement, get the death penalty off the table, and this thing will be over.
Wesley Woodward: I don't think prosecutors will make a deal
Ed Vitagliano Well, Wesley, let me ask you this.
Fred Jackson Just.
Ed Vitagliano I know this is probably unfair. Just to toss this to you, if you were someone in Utah, or just as a fan of Charlie Kirk, would you be okay with that? With a plea deal, getting life in prison, save the taxpayers a big chunk of money, and a long, drawn out trial? or what would you. What would you feel?
Wesley Wildmon in this particular case, there's been. There's been situations or court cases that I would have a different opinion on, and I probably would take a, you know, a deal. But in this particular case, no, because the reason is because the overwhelming evidence you don't have to. and again, I don't even think. I don't think they'll get. I don't even think they'll negotiate a deal just because of the overwhelming evidence and that. I mean, the law. The law in the state of Utah leads to, in this particular case, a death sentence. And so I think. I don't think they'll do that. They. I don't think they'll do it from a pragmatic standpoint, but I also don't think they'll do it from a principal standpoint, because they don't have to.
Ed Vitagliano I agree. I don't think you make a deal on something like this because this was. So if he. If Tyler Robinson is guilty, this crime. Let me just put it that way.
Wesley Wildmon Sure.
Ed Vitagliano Okay. So I don't want to get sued.
Wesley Wildmon Sure you do.
Ed Vitagliano Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
Wesley Wildmon That's right.
Ed Vitagliano This wasn't a drunk driver. This. This wasn't, a crime of passion where someone was screaming at Charlie and picked something up and hit him. This was an assassination. And you can't get. You can't allow assassins to get off the hook.
Wesley Wildmon Yep.
Speaker H Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon Especially with the overwhelming evidence.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. Fred, I'm, gonna give you. You and Chris your opportunity to jump in here. what do you think? What would you. What would you want in this case?
Fred Jackson What would I want? I would want the death penalty because he deserves. Was plotted. It was deliberate. He wanted to kill somebody because of their point of view. in America, if there's any case that deserves the death penalty. Yes. but, you know, when it comes to courts and lawyers, I just have seen. I just have seen enough that there will be at least a bid by the defense now for a plea down of some sort.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. Okay. But back to what I was. You got principal and pragmatism here. Pragmatically, what do they have to gain?
Ed Vitagliano that is by allowing a plea.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. Charlie Kirk's, attorneys, what were they. I don't know what they would gain from you.
Ed Vitagliano M Mean, the prosecutors.
Wesley Wildmon The prosecutor. Sorry.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. Yeah. And listen, if, again, Tyler Robinson, if he's the one who did it, and all the evidence seems to point that way, it's not like they. They. After, you know, the case is over, they drag him out into the street and execute him. He'll have 10 years of appeals. It's. It's. It won't be life in prison, but it won't be an instantaneous execution. So, Krish, what do you think?
Chris Woodward Well, it.
Ed Vitagliano What's your opinion?
Chris Woodward It's. Well, number one, I don't have a problem with the death penalty. and I never have. those are my own personal opinions.
Ed Vitagliano Because you can't work here if you do.
Chris Woodward Right. Those are my own personal opinions. And the views and opinions Krish Woodward do not necessarily reflect the American Family Association. but I don't have a problem with the death penalty. Never have. I think it should be applied in this case. what is. What I would be. I would not be surprised if they do appeal this, to say that it was hard for him to get a fair trial because, you can't find an impartial judge or jury or whatever else. We had a similar situation several years ago, based on the Sarnayev guy, that he bought his brother. Yeah.
The jury in Lindsey Clancy's murder trial appears to be deadlocked
They plotted to and bombed the, Boston race, and many people died in that. And there was a manhunt. They found this one alive, the other guy was dead, all that stuff. When the, court, ruled that he should die, his attorneys challenged that to the Supreme Court and said, well, it was hard for him to get a fair trial, in America because, you can't go anywhere without somebody having an opinion about this. I think that is becoming more difficult in America, because of all the information that's out there. You can't go to a gym or an airport or a restaurant in Tupelo, Mississippi, without a, television being on and something, being on.
Ed Vitagliano The only thing I know you're not arguing for this, but the only thing. One of the things wrong with that argument on the part of defense attorneys is that that actually incentivizes high profile murders. M. Because the higher profile, the person you kill, okay, that means you automatically get a pass because you can't get a fair trial. And so I think what you do is you just simply say, we're picking people who say they will not be influenced and they'll make a fair and impartial judgment. And you just have to go with that. Otherwise you're basically broadcasting to people that, hey, you want to kill someone high profile, you can get away with it or get life in prison, because.
Wesley Wildmon Or a deal.
Ed Vitagliano Or a deal because you can't, quote, unquote, get a fair trial.
Chris Woodward Yeah, well, you know, the Luigi Mangione situation, where prosecutors say he shot and killed the, health care executive, and then finally he enters a plea deal, to get out of it after months of these people showing up and like, fangirling him.
Speaker H Yeah.
Chris Woodward And there was a Concern that he was going to inspire people to do the same. The argument being, well, he had it coming. Right, you know, right, so. And now you've seen all these people gather in support of Lindsey Clancy outside the courthouse, not paying any attention to what's going on in the court.
Ed Vitagliano Well, what's the latest update on that?
Chris Woodward Yes, it's funny you should ask.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Chris Woodward So yesterday, the judge sent the jury home again under the instruction of don't talk to anybody. Look at anything, read anything, watch anything. and we'll come back again. Yesterday morning, there was some concern that it might be headed for mistrial because the jury told the judge, we're, we're deadlocked. We can't reach a decision here. But the judge said, I don't care. Keep talking. They spent the rest of the day talking about things. He sent them home. But they are back again today, so we may get a decision. Stay with AFN for details on this developing story.
Ed Vitagliano Fred, I gotta say, this. This. This is kind of stunning that it's deadlocked. Okay. So as far as I know, you tell me if I'm right here. My understanding of this case is that the attorneys for Lindsey Clancy. Now, this is. Again, I don't know if we mentioned this. This is the case where she allegedly murdered. Strangled her three children to death. And the defense is arguing that she had postpartum psychosis.
Chris Woodward Correct.
Ed Vitagliano Okay. So my understanding is that it's not an issue whether or not she killed them.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Ed Vitagliano The issue is, was she responsible for what she did? I frankly find it stunning that this
Fred Jackson is a deadlock jury, criminally responsible. That's what they're deciding. What's interesting and, just listening to the legal experts out there, there are nine women and three men on this jury. There's also a range of age. The speculation is the older people want to find her guilty.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Fred Jackson They're not accepting her mental state as being an excuse for why those three little children are dead. The younger women, perhaps on that jury, have a closer attachment to the idea of the problem of postpartum blues. And in this case, the psychosis added into that. There is also the argument that she was on, like, 25 different prescriptions and what that would do to a human body, to the brain. So, when you say, why are they having this debate? One of the answers to that question appears to be that age range. The nine women, three men, and the age range that different, ages, gender and age. Gender and age. They look at things differently. I'm not saying I agree with either side on that. It's very. Fox is using a defense lawyer, as their expert on this. And she's been around for a long time. She says I go back and forth. I have sympathy for, Lindsay Clancy sometimes because of her mental state, and other times I want, you know, throw the book at her.
Ed Vitagliano I gotta say, I read the
Wesley Wildmon report, though, where while she was taking that many medicines, she didn't have any of that in her system when she murdered her kids.
Ed Vitagliano Listen, I. I would have sympathy with Lindsay Clancy if she abandoned her kids, if she ran off with the milkman and said, I'm starting a new life. I can't take this anymore. But not strangling them. All right, I just. That's okay.
There is a concern that this trial might be headed for mistral
So let me. Before we go to the break here, I'm asking two news guys, let's say this is a mistrial. It's deadlocked. They can't. The judge can't get a decision out of the jury. She can be retried, right?
Fred Jackson That is correct.
Ed Vitagliano And the trial would again center on whether she's criminally. Was, criminally responsible. Is that right?
Fred Jackson That's correct. And even if she's found not guilty, she's going into a mental institution for a very long time.
Ed Vitagliano But you'd have to have a jury rule.
Fred Jackson Yes.
That.
Ed Vitagliano That's what they want.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Chris Woodward Okay, now, to make that more of a concern real quick, there is a concern that it might be headed for mistral, because yesterday there was a woman outside the courtroom trying to take a picture of the jury as it exited the courthouse, causing concern from a whole bunch of people that, hey, something wrong is going on here.
American Family Radio Network panel welcomes Jenna Ellis after a short break
Ed Vitagliano All right, all right. Well, we're going to come back at. We're going to take a short break, folks. You're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. Today, our panel will welcome, after the break, Jenna Ellis. We're going to talk about. We'll get her take on this Lindsey Clancy thing and then ask about another case that's happening. And we hope you will join us, Friend.
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Tim Wildmon Greece and Italy. We're going there in the spring of 2027. Hello everyone, I'm Tim Wildmon, president of American Family association and American Family Radio. My sons Walker Wesley are going to be leading a tour of Greece which includes, many of the sites found in the Book of Acts where Paul traveled. And then we, call this the Footsteps of Paul. And then we're going to Italy. By we, I mean Allison. My wife and I are leading a group to Italy to see the sights of that great country, including Rome. We're going to visit Rome and that'll take a couple, three days to see all the in Rome. And so we're going to visit the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo, you may have heard of him, he was a slightly better than average artist. So we're going to be going there. If you want all the information on our tours of Italy and Greece, go to tours.afa.net that's tours.afa.net enter his gates with Thanksgiving.
Jenna Ellis Go into his courts with praise. Give thanks to him and praise his name. Psalm 100.
This is today's Issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of, today's Issues and
Ed Vitagliano welcome back Ed Battagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today. He should be back here in studio tomorrow. I'm, joined in studio my Fred Jackson, Wesley Wildmon and Krish Woodward. And now we want to welcome Jenna Ellis who is host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am, central time on AFR and she is host of the On Demand podcast that you can [email protected] and she's also just an all around nice person. Jenna welcome back to today's issues.
Jenna Ellis Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate that. And always great to be with you.
The trial of Lindsay Clancy, accused of murdering her three children, is nearing mistrial
Ed Vitagliano All right, so, we were talking about before the break, this Lindsey Clancy circus. Okay. It is kind of a media circus, and apparently it is, might be nearing mistrial. The mistrial stage, because the jury remains deadlocked. So, kind of tell us what you think about all, ah, this. We are curious what. As to what is going on. Our, understanding is that there's no question legally about whether or not Lindsey Clancy did this. Murdering her three children by strangulation, but that she. Her defense is arguing that she's not criminally responsible. I'm actually more interested in what people are thinking who support her kind of. Tell us what you think about this and any legal insights you might have. Have.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, I'm. I'm wondering what people are thinking too, because, her defense is not suggesting that anyone else is responsible, but they are suggesting that Lindsay Clancy isn't criminally responsible because apparently, she went through this 18 minute psychosis, heard a voice, that was telling her to commit these acts. And my perspective is, even if everything the defense claims about this alleged psycho psychosis is true, which you can't prove, and you also can't disprove it, right? Which is one of the problems. But even if all of that is totally accurate, I don't care. There, there. That should not be an excuse or a defense for criminal liability for murdering three children. I think that the insanity defense has been way overused and broadened in America to allow people to escape criminal responsibility when the only rational way that this is any way relevant should be at sentencing, maybe as mitigation, to say, you know, listen, put her in, you know, a mental institution for the rest of her life instead of prison, or in contemplation of a plea agreement up front, but in no way should this be in any way relevant to her criminal responsibility. So, that's my opinion on this. But, you know, the court of public opinion has been just insane to watch. I mean, no pun intended there, but literally insane, where people are suggesting that just because they empathize with her, they feel bad for her or, you know, they can relate. I mean, there are videos now on Tik Tok of mothers who are. Who are, using the hashtag same Lindsay, suggesting that they understand somehow, the. The heinous murders of her three children. And what does that say about a culture that is actually suggesting that doesn't matter the facts. It matters the emotion. But that's what the left has been telling us for a really long time. And the left has also been telling us for a really long time that we should live in this sort of Marxist, worldview where oppressor and oppressed in these categories matter. And Lindsay Clancy is a woman, and she has been oppressed by the patriarchy for so long. And there are so many tiktoks that are blaming her husband for various things. You know, blaming the medical doctors and you. This poor woman who is just yielding to her hormones. She is the oppressed. And so it doesn't matter her conduct. She can literally get away with murder according to them, in this kind of, you m. Know, Marxist view. It's the same exact conversation we had with Carmelo Anthony, the, the young, you know, black high school student who stabbed a white track star. And it became more about race than it did the conag. I don't care what the melanin shade of his skin is. I care about what he did in terms of the act. And I think that if we are truly going to have a just and moral society, we have to care about the act more than we have to. More than we care about the, intrinsic personal characteristics of the perpetrators.
Wesley Wildmon Also add to that. Also care about the victims.
Yes.
Wesley Wildmon because that's something that's left out. You know, the group of mostly women that are protesting this in favor of our sympathy for Clancy. I wonder if they were at the, autopsy when and saw the three children and then. Well, I don't know if that would actually change their mind. But, you know, as a human being, as a Christian, I empathize and think through what the victims had to suffer in light of, how I come to my conclusion. By the way, I'm glad we had you on. I share your position and I shared mine yesterday, but it was not as articulate as yours. So good job.
Jenna Ellis I appreciate that. And I've been talking about this, just prolifically on my show. In fact, I had Isabel Brown from the Daily Wire, who is, ah, very articulate and, you know, phenomenal, on this morning and we were talking about this. So, you know, not. Not the first time going through this because as a society we do need to contemplate that, but, you know, even how heinous these murders were, and this wasn't something that, you know, they're trying to, Some are trying to shade as some kind of mercy killings and, it's. It's just a ridiculous fabrication. But I don't think that it would change their minds. Why? Because abortion is just as heinous and women every day choose to murder their children by literal dismemberment, inside the womb and extracting their, their living children from the womb. And so is it really that much of a leap to now say, okay, well, you know, three years and five years after birth, we can still, murder them in heinous ways. I mean, this is the logical conclusion of where the anti life argument has gone.
Fred Jackson Jen, it's Fred. So what happens if sometime today or the next few days, this jury comes back and says, sorry, judge, we still cannot come up with a unanimous decision? My understanding is, the judge says, okay, then we have to have a new trial. But is the prosecution allowed to present the same case to a new jury? can she be tried on those arguments again? What happens if. And it sounds like it could well go to this. We can't come up with a decision from this jury.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. Which isn't that wild? I mean, what do they possibly have to contemplate? And it's going to be very interesting to see whether, if they are deadlocked and there is a mistrial declared, whether the judge polls the jury so that the prosecution and the defense can see not only the gender distribution, because a lot of people are questioning that there are three men and seven women on the jury, but they can also see, you know, where was the deliberation. And part of it in just my guess, because obviously no one has talked to the jury, is that because this isn't a straightforward guilty or not guilty by, you know, reason of insanity, there are five different selections, and there's kind of a range that the jury can, hold for their verdict. It can be, you know, murder down to manslaughter to not guilty, because of not criminally liable, and then, or no criminal responsibility and then full not guilty. And so when you look at all of those options, it's entirely possible that the jury is kind of weighed between, you know, one or several of these options and can't reach a unanimous verdict. so I'd be very interested to see if the jury is pulled. some legal, experts that I was listening to on Court tv, throughout this process have said that, this particular state, just how they govern juries isn't, doesn't typically do that. But, because of the nature of this case, it wouldn't surprise me if the judge goes ahead and does that. So I think if they do that will inform the prosecution and the defense maybe how to move forward. But basically this just resets the clock entirely. So, speedy trial starts anew. the whole process of the trial starts again. the parties can reach a plea agreement. I mean, they could reach a plea agreement today anytime before the jury even returns a verdict. So it basically starts the whole thing over again. And double jeopardy does not attach because the, jury was unable to reach a verdict. So the prosecution absolutely can bring the exact same case, the exact same charge, and, essentially retry this all over again, which I think would actually be more helpful to the prosecution than the defense because, initially, and there have been a lot of comments, in this regard, that the prosecution did better in their closing argument than the initial couple of weeks stages of this trial. So maybe they'll, be a little more polished. And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see, though, what type of jury you can get that on a second round where people haven't already made up their minds.
Chris: Double jeopardy does not attach if there's a mistrial declared
Ed Vitagliano before we get to the second, case that we wanted to discuss, let me just make sure, that I, and our listeners understand when you say double jeopardy, you're saying that if Lindsey Clancy was found not guilty by the jury in the trial, she cannot be charged on those in a second case, in a second trial, she cannot be, brought up on those same charges. Right?
Jenna Ellis Yeah. If there, if there's a not guilty, if there is a verdict reached, that's it. So we're only talking about double jeopardy does not attach if there's a mistrial declared because the jury is deadlocked. And so, you know, some people are asking, well, how can she go to trial a second time? It's because the jury would not have reached a verdict.
Ed Vitagliano Okay, that's helpful. All right, Krish, let's pitch, the other, story to, Jenna.
SUNY Broome tells Christian student ministry it must accept non-Christians
Chris Woodward All right, so I'll set it up this way. SUNY Broome, a community college in NewSong York state, has told a Christian student ministry known as InterVarsity that it can only operate on campus if InterVarsity is willing to let non Christians lead its prayer, worship, and Bible teaching, thinking this is unconstitutional. The Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty filed a federal lawsuit recently on behalf of InterVarsity. And I spoke to Beckett attorney Colton Stanberry for a story airing today on radio. Here is Colton in clip seven.
Ed Vitagliano You know, to do effective ministry, especially effective Christian ministry, we have to have, leaders that believe the same thing we do. And they went back and forth with the university and the university Ultimately said, you know, sorry, we're not changing our policy. and so where negotiation and discussion failed, we had to file a lawsuit.
Chris Woodward I was curious, Jenna, in terms of why we continue to have these kinds of cases in court, because this is not the first time a campus has told a faith based organization you must operate this way. Why is it that these things continue to, happen?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, it's a great question. And you know, unfortunately, some of these anti, religious, institutions want to continue challenging the law, maybe on a different novel theory or because, you know, they just think that they can get away with it and perhaps this particular religious organization isn't going to be able to mount a legal fight. Right. so there could be a variety of reasons, but that won't change the outcome. the interesting part of this too is that, you know, while, some are suggesting that that this, you know, is about a, an institution saying, well, we have to remain neutral, under, you know, the First Amendment and they'll claim that kind of as a defense, SUNY is not remaining neutral in this case. It's imposing a theological governance rule. And so the state doesn't become neutral by telling a Christian ministry that Christianity is an impermissible qualification for Christian leadership. I mean that's direct government interference with the ministry's identity and the mission. And it's also compelled association. So I mean this also goes against, the constitutionally protected right to freedom of association. Because intervarsity, the, the religious organization here formed for the purpose of advancing a specific Christian message and requiring it to accept leaders who may reject that message, changes the organization's speech from within. And so freedom of association ultimately is hollow if the state can dictate who speaks for the association.
Ed Vitagliano Okay, well, I don't know why this, Sunni, broom, I've never heard of the community broom, by the way. This is, I've heard of SUNY State University of NewSong York. They got a pretty wide ranging university system in NewSong York. I've never heard of broom, but I've heard of Hogwarts.
Jenna Ellis They have brooms.
Ed Vitagliano That's a whole different set of issues there. I don't know why these schools continue to ignore the clear instruction of the Supreme Court. I don't know at what point, you know, have a federal court say, listen, this is settled law. You're clearly disregarding what the supreme court says, $5 billion fine or something, you know, to stop this kind of stuff. Because there apparently is on the part of SUNY broom, there's apparently no downside to just saying, we know what the Supreme Court has said. We're going to be obnoxious.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, there's no consequence attached for violating the, the constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech, freedom of association, free exercise of religion. And so maybe that's where the law needs to change and say, you know, if you have, if you have gone against, the, the constitutionally protected principles as the state and as a, state colleges and you are found in breach of that, it's not just, okay, well, fine, we're going to let them associate then. I mean, they're not risking anything. If, if they're only risking attorneys fees, which, you know, as a state they're not really paying for anyway, the taxpayers are, then there's no downside. And so the law needs to catch up with that and say there should be a downside and there should be civil penalties that are attached.
Next week is the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder
Ed Vitagliano All right, Jenna, once again you cleared the, you cleared the bases with a couple of home runs here and we appreciate your analysis, your insight, your expertise. what do you got cooking for your show tomorrow?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, so, so we're still going to be covering the Lindsey Clancy case, obviously, you know, that's really big, in the news. And then also next week, of course, on Thursday is the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder. And I'm really, excited to have Andrew Colvett, who was a dear friend of Charlie's, and is a spokesperson for tpusa and was Charlie's executive producer, is going to join me, on Thursday next week to talk about, you know, his, his personal, life over the last year, how TPUSA has dealt with that and memorialized Charlie. So that's coming up and I can't believe that it's already been a year.
Ed Vitagliano It's hard to believe. That sounds like a great show. next week. All your shows are great. Jenna, thanks for checking in with us and you have a great rest of your day.
Jenna Ellis All right, thanks guys. Appreciate it.
Some universities are putting gender transition coverage in student health insurance plans
Ed Vitagliano That was, Jenna Ellis, host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am Central Time on AFR. She's host of the On Demand podcast. By the way. You can find podcasts, not only of shows that have already aired, but some shows that do not air on our network in terms of our regular rotation, but do have podcasts available to listen to. And the On Demand podcast is one of those. So you go to afr.net there is a little, drop down menu says podcasts and you can find all sorts of things to listen to if you have taken a big trip or you're working in the yard or you're working at home and you want to listen and learn. lots of great options [email protected] alright Krish, what's next?
Chris Woodward One more reason to pay extra attention to where your kid and your money is going when it comes to college. Universities have launched their 2026, 2027 student health insurance plans and at least some are retaining coverage for chemical sex changes or gender transition stuff. this was uncovered by Campus Reform, which is an education watchdog. I talked to their editor in chief, Zachary Marshall about this. He told me that in some cases, Rochester, Johns Hopkins and other universities, they're not only putting this in health insurance plans, but they're forcing kids to pay for it in addition to their tuition, which I'm sure is outrageous.
Speaker H Clip 6 this is something we want to call out and make people aware of because in the case of Johns Hopkins, students are automatically enrolled in this plan unless they complete a waiver. But that's not always communicated in the most clearest terms to students. And it's also part of University of Rochester's plan to offer what they call gender affirming care and sex change related coverage. It's a problem that students who depend on these insurance plans to have coverage are being forced to pay for the lifestyle choices of a fringe minority of students. It is an elective and a choice to have surgeries that make you think you're changing your gender. But it is not something that everyone should be forced to pay for.
Chris Woodward I would strongly caution anybody to go, well, that's not where my child goes to school, or that's not the school I root for or whatever. I guarantee you that these kinds of things happen at schools near you or maybe even the one that you support financially. It's just been uncovered, that it's going on at these particular universities.
Ed Vitagliano You know Fred, a couple of things here. first of all, if anybody's ever worked out in the yard, okay, weeds are a persistent thing. They're always growing back. You may not have good stuff growing, it may be hard to get good stuff to grow, but the weeds are always there, always trying to make a comeback. And that's what I thought of as Krish was walking us through this story, is that the Trump administration has plainly laid out where it wants education, institutions of education to go on this issue. but these people are persistent. They just won't give up their ideology. And they, continue to break the rules, sidestep the obvious, sometimes even breaking not just federal rules, but in Florida, for example, the state there, the DeSantis administration, having to watch the schools to make sure they're complying. It's pretty stunning to see how committed these people remain to this bizarre ideology.
Fred Jackson Yeah, they're committed. And, unfortunately, many times when the government steps in and says, look, you're doing something that you know is wrong, that we have laws against this kind of thing, what happens is that it goes to a court, and the court rules in favor of the university. Yeah, this is what happens. And we dealt with this story just two or three weeks ago, remember when the Trump administration went after Harvard and Columbia over anti Semitism.
Wesley Wildmon Yes.
Fred Jackson On their campuses. And we're going to penalize you, because you have created an environment on your campus that allows Jewish students to basically suffer persecution.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Fred Jackson So Harvard and Columbia come back and they say, well, working on this, and they go to court, to stop the penalty. And they win before the court, Harvard and Columbia. So that's the battle that you face. So you know what? It comes back really to parents who care about these things. And unfortunately, number one, you got to read the fine print, especially in a case like this. M what our insurance dollars, our medical insurance is going to cover. Read the fine print. And then mom and dad, you got to decide whether you want your Jimmy and Janie go in there, you know, to this kind of school that advocates for this kind of thing.
Ed Vitagliano Well, I'll tell you something else too. I'm thankful that we have a free society where groups like Campus reform, prior story. InterVarsity Fellowship, we have avenues, in which these groups can fight for their constitutional rights. But to your point, Fred, they have to fight.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Ed Vitagliano And parents have to pay attention. And folks, this is why we have exist. We exist so that you find out about these things. You are able to contact groups like InterVarsity, like, like Beckett, like the Beckett Fund. and, we try to keep all of our listeners informed about what's happening and equip them to fight these battles and then provide opportunities for them to do it. Because the weeds keep coming back. Folks. You must ever remain vigilant in order to protect our freedoms. All right, we're going to take a five minute break for news and then Steve Jordal will be in the house. We hope you will return and join us.
Jenna Ellis The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio. M.
AFA offers an in depth worldview training course called Activate
Every day, AFA offers biblical insight on issues that others aren't willing to touch in the hopes that you'll become a world changer. That's why we're offering an in depth worldview training course called Activate. Thirteen different professors teaching 18 sessions, all available online, including a printed workbook to help you apply what you've learned and one year access to AFA streaming content to give you even more resources. Find out more about Acctivate and sign up today at Acctivate.AFA.net welcome to today's Issues. Join us for the next hour as we offer a Christian response to the
Tim Wildmon issues of the day.
Ed Vitagliano filling in for Tim Wildman on Today's Issues
Here's your host, Ed Vitagliano,
Ed Vitagliano and welcome to Today's Issues. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today. Lord willing, he will be back in the captain's chair tomorrow. I am joined in studio by Fred Jackson. Good morning, Fred.
Fred Jackson Good morning to you, Ed.
Ed Vitagliano Wesley Wildmon, M. Good morning.
Wesley Wildmon Glad to be here.
Ed Vitagliano I'm not sure they could hear you tap and doing the drum roll on the.
Wesley Wildmon And it was off cadence, so it's probably a good thing.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. and then Krish Woodward is our news guy today. Hello. Yes. There's Chris's, overly enthusiastic reaction.
Fred Jackson Too much coffee. Too much coffee.
Ed Vitagliano Sugar coffee.
Wesley Wildmon And it's hump day.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. And it's y.
Speaker F Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Hump day.
Chris Woodward Real sugar, not just fake stuff.
Ed Vitagliano Pay week. We get paid.
Fred Jackson Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Amen.
Wesley Wildmon A lot of. A lot of good things this week.
Ed Vitagliano A lot of good things. It's September.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano I mean, we are headed towards cooler weather. I'm not sure how long it'll take.
Wesley Wildmon Mississippi. We got another month.
Speaker H Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Maybe more.
Speaker F Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano I remember wearing shorts at Christmas on a number of occasions. That just ain't right.
Chris Woodward Fall is our best 13 days of non consecutive weather between Boxing Day and Martin Luther King day.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah, 13 days. That's about right. Same thing with spring. We're lucky if we get two weeks of spring before the temperatures just drops off the table or goes up the heat.
Wesley Wildmon The heat in Mississippi was late to the game, though, because June was pretty decent.
Fred Jackson Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon But, we all knew August was coming.
Ed Vitagliano We've paid the price since then.
Wesley Wildmon That's right. Now we're in deception, but got football around the weather. And we're talking about us a good bit here. What about our audience? What do we got for our audience today? We got. We got a guest.
Ed Vitagliano Well, we do have a guest at, 10:30. Jenna Ellis will be on with us. We're gonna be talking some legal stuff with her, Jenna is host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am Central Time on AFR. And she's also host of the On Demand podcast [email protected] I think we're gonna, we're gonna do a little update here, in just a few minutes on the Lindsey Clancy trial. We are gonna just mention, that and see what Jenna thinks about that. And then Krish, what else are we gonna talk to her about?
Chris Woodward Yes, there is a, big case that I have a story on today. the Beckett law Firm is representing InterVarsity, which is a faith based club on many college campuses. They're in a dispute with a college in NewSong York, the faith based group, to allow anybody and everybody to not only be a part of the group, but to be able to run for leadership positions in the faith based organization, which of course a faith based organization would have an issue with. you know, I wouldn't expect the atheist group to have me, a Baptist, be the president of the group.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Chris Woodward so that's kind of the argument here and it's one of many cases that have taken place across the country.
Ed Vitagliano All right, so we'll be talking to Jennas, Jenna about those two issues. the bottom of the hour. You want to hang around and hear what she has to say.
Iran fires on its Gulf neighbors after US military strikes in Iran
All right, what else we got?
Chris Woodward Let's begin with, the Iran situation. because, Iran has fired on its Gulf neighbors after US military strikes in Iran. the ceasefire is pretty much non existent. It has been for days, if not a couple of weeks now. And we have a story about this on our website this morning on afn.net, the headline is Iran fires on its Gulf neighbors after US Military strikes. Iran. all of this started playing out in the last, 24 hours or so. I do have some audio here of Secretary of State Marco Rubio talking about the situation and what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker F Clip one, that ship in many ways has sailed, no pun intended, with regards to the straits. Because if you think about it as a moment, I mean at the core issue here is they're never going to have a nuclear weapon. I have to remind people that continuously this is all about the fact that they want to possess a nuclear weapon and threaten the world with it. And we'll never allow that to happen. We reserve the right, as we said, to take military action when necessary. Not just to protect ourselves, but to prevent them, from being able to threaten others as well.
Ed Vitagliano You know, Fred, I Have to believe that the other neighbors, Iranian neighbors in the Middle east, many of whom are allies, of the U.S. saudi Arabia, Jordan, I guess allies is okay word to use. I don't think they want Iran to get a nuclear weapon either. The question is, can we be successful and keeping them from getting one?
Fred Jackson Well, I think we are for the moment. what I've heard is that, at least we set them back 10, 20 years in that. But honestly, I think the, focus of the battle, between the United States and Iran has moved from ensuring not a nuclear weapon to ensuring ships can leave through the Strait of Hormuz. Oil has become the big issue here. And oil, if you talk to most Americans today, every time they go to fill up their car, their truck with gasoline, they see the prices varying, going up, coming down a little bit, going up again. That's what the American people are talking about. the United States has to find some way. Now, I know the President has given assurances that the United States controls the Strait of Hormuzz, and for the most part, I think that is true. But we also know, even in the last few days, that there have been ships that have encountered both missile attacks. Ships going through the Strait of Hormuz, a missile attack, but also there are still those mines that are out there. Those mines may have been floating around for weeks, but they're still deadly. so if you're a captain of a ship, you're very mindful of that kind of thing. So I think the focus now, and what you hear, hear the President talking more about these days, is, we have control of the Strait of Hormuz. The Iranians are saying, no, we're not allowing that. So that's why you're having this toing and froing going on right now. The other night, we hit an island that is an area known to have missile launching in the vicinity of where those ships travel. So that's the big issue right now. the blockade is still in place. And my prediction is that blockade is going to be there for a long while.
Ed Vitagliano Well, and that, island is not Carg island, because that's further up to the north, northwest, where they do a lot of their, refinery. Refinery. And where, these ships pick up their oil. the island they hit was Laroch, I think. And that's very close to where the Strait of Hormuz, where that kind of peninsula south of Iran juts into, and basically causes that. That strait. So that's the one you would, you would think that's the one that they would use to strike at ships coming because it's at the narrowest part of the Strait of Hormuz.
Chris Woodward I'm looking at the price of oil right now. It's about 91 bucks a barrel. That's up a few dollars from the last couple of days and it's presumably going to continue to trend upward. meanwhile, the price of a regular gallon of gas is $4.12. That's a dollar more than it was this time last year. If you are a diesel customer, God bless you. because the average price for a diesel today $5.68, $2 more than this time last year.
Ed Vitagliano Well, and Wesley, one of the problems with that, I don't drive a diesel. I did several years back.
Wesley Wildmon But a lot of big equipment, a
Ed Vitagliano lot of big equipment. A lot of farmers need this. They also need the potash, potash and potash. And always we say potash, potash. you know, truckers drive the transport, groceries and everything else. We need VR highway system. They're reliant on diesel. So that does help also drive the prices up that we're all experiencing.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah, you know, the biggest problem here is that President Trump and his administration and those that helped him run for office, run the third time but make it in the office the second time, promise no forever wars. Yeah. And we've done a really, he's done a great job. In fact, he's done a lot of really quick military missions that lasted within a day or two or three and in and out. while he was provoked then and said by the left. Well, we said no wars, but it was already done.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon but in this particular case with the Iran situation, this has gone on for, since February, is that right? Yeah. So we're way past the three month mark, which was what I, you know, I said after three months. I, you know, I wanted, as a voter for President Trump, I'd like to, I'd like to see us wrap it up. But there's, there's no exit plan and ah, so this is only, this is only going to become a more of a problem and it's, and it's hard to, it's not hard, it's impossible to defend if you're a Republican. So I'm hoping that I guess every day you wake up and hope that you're looking for an exit plan because I don't think there's any more that you can do as far as the original plan, although that was a little bit confusing as well at the beginning. But as far as the plan from the very beginning, I don't know how much more of that you can accomplish. but I will say this. At any point, when he pulls out and comes home, I'm happy with what we've done thus far. I just, I think at this point it's time to come home. Because the, what we just mentioned, one of the side effects of what we're dealing with here, and that's the fuel prices going up, and that's going to obviously have a ripple effect on the way everyday Americans live.
Speaker H So.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Judge yesterday sent the Charlie Kirk murder trial to trial with Tyler Robinson facing death penalty
All right, next story. Krish.
Chris Woodward Yesterday, a judge in Utah sent the Charlie Kirk murder trial to, murder case to trial, with the defendant, Tyler Robinson, facing a potential death penalty. This is the, A lot of people have been confused, by what's been taking place in court. Basically what's been happening up until this decision from a judge yesterday is whether or not the case should proceed to trial, whether the prosecutors had enough evidence to bring Tyler Robinson to trial. Of course, Tyler Robinson turned himself in. His parents urged him to turn himself in. They never at any point said, you've got the wrong guy. there's been all kinds of evidence that the, prosecution presented to court. and so yesterday the judge, after months of, ongoing events in court, did say, hey, this should go to trial. There's several bits of audio to go over here. Let's just begin with the judge himself, Tony Graff, on the probable cause to pursue aggravated murder charge. Clip 2.
Ed Vitagliano Viewed in the light most favorable to the prosecution, this evidence is sufficient at this stage to support a reasonable belief that defendant is the individual who shot and killed Charlie Kirk. Accordingly, the state has demonstrated probable cause as to the identity and homicide elements of count one.
Chris Woodward That's just one piece of this story here. What is, I think a bigger story is the comments I'm about to call for involving the defense attorney, the attorney for Tyler Robinson, who said basically, Charlie Kirk is to blame for the shooting of Charlie Kirk, based on the things he said on campuses and on the campaign trails, stuff like that. Here is defense attorney Richard Novak. Clip 3.
Ed Vitagliano The state has utterly failed to prove that there's a particular political expression that Mr. Robinson took issue with. We all know, because we live in the real world, the kinds of things that Mr. Kirk said which some people find hateful. Okay, well, so his, his defense, how does that play into his defense?
Chris Woodward People have interpreted that as the Defense attorney as saying Charlie Kirk had it coming.
Ed Vitagliano Well, that's. Listen, if that's the strategy of Tyler Robinson's attorney, defense attorney, he should be fired.
Chris Woodward Yes.
Ed Vitagliano Because you cannot argue, Fred. You can't. You can't argue before a, panel of your peers, a jury of your peers, that, yes, Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk, but Charlie Kirk said hateful things. I'm not sure I'm following the reasoning here.
Fred Jackson Here's a prediction. I've been wrong before. This preliminary hearing has gone on for a year because the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's death assassination is next Thursday, a week from tomorrow. So the preliminary hearing has gone on and on and on. Here's my prediction. right now, as it stands, as you heard the judge in the case that, if he's found guilty, as things stand right now, he gets the death penalty, or the death penalty is on the table, I believe, that Tyler Robinson's going to sit down with his lawyers and they're going to work out a plea agreement. they wanted to go right up to the doorstep with this in the preliminary hearing. they know if it goes to trial as it is right now, that he's going to be found guilty. I mean, you know, the DNA evidence, the testimony from Tyler Robinson's boyfriend. You know, I talked to Tyler Robinson on the phone. He basically confessed. He's doing it.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah.
Fred Jackson So, they don't have a case to find him not guilty. They know that. So they're going to plea this thing down as far as they can get.
Ed Vitagliano Try to get life in prison.
Fred Jackson Try to get life in prison. That's where this is going. The next appearance, the next formal court appearance is scheduled for sometime in October. I'm not even sure we're going to get to that. I think they'll go after the prosecution, try to get a plea agreement, get the death penalty off the table, and this thing will be over.
Wesley Woodward: I don't think prosecutors will make a deal
Ed Vitagliano Well, Wesley, let me ask you this.
Fred Jackson Just.
Ed Vitagliano I know this is probably unfair. Just to toss this to you, if you were someone in Utah, or just as a fan of Charlie Kirk, would you be okay with that? With a plea deal, getting life in prison, save the taxpayers a big chunk of money, and a long, drawn out trial? or what would you. What would you feel?
Wesley Wildmon in this particular case, there's been. There's been situations or court cases that I would have a different opinion on, and I probably would take a, you know, a deal. But in this particular case, no, because the reason is because the overwhelming evidence you don't have to. and again, I don't even think. I don't think they'll get. I don't even think they'll negotiate a deal just because of the overwhelming evidence and that. I mean, the law. The law in the state of Utah leads to, in this particular case, a death sentence. And so I think. I don't think they'll do that. They. I don't think they'll do it from a pragmatic standpoint, but I also don't think they'll do it from a principal standpoint, because they don't have to.
Ed Vitagliano I agree. I don't think you make a deal on something like this because this was. So if he. If Tyler Robinson is guilty, this crime. Let me just put it that way.
Wesley Wildmon Sure.
Ed Vitagliano Okay. So I don't want to get sued.
Wesley Wildmon Sure you do.
Ed Vitagliano Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
Wesley Wildmon That's right.
Ed Vitagliano This wasn't a drunk driver. This. This wasn't, a crime of passion where someone was screaming at Charlie and picked something up and hit him. This was an assassination. And you can't get. You can't allow assassins to get off the hook.
Wesley Wildmon Yep.
Speaker H Yeah.
Wesley Wildmon Especially with the overwhelming evidence.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. Fred, I'm, gonna give you. You and Chris your opportunity to jump in here. what do you think? What would you. What would you want in this case?
Fred Jackson What would I want? I would want the death penalty because he deserves. Was plotted. It was deliberate. He wanted to kill somebody because of their point of view. in America, if there's any case that deserves the death penalty. Yes. but, you know, when it comes to courts and lawyers, I just have seen. I just have seen enough that there will be at least a bid by the defense now for a plea down of some sort.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. Okay. But back to what I was. You got principal and pragmatism here. Pragmatically, what do they have to gain?
Ed Vitagliano that is by allowing a plea.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah. Charlie Kirk's, attorneys, what were they. I don't know what they would gain from you.
Ed Vitagliano M Mean, the prosecutors.
Wesley Wildmon The prosecutor. Sorry.
Ed Vitagliano Yeah. Yeah. And listen, if, again, Tyler Robinson, if he's the one who did it, and all the evidence seems to point that way, it's not like they. They. After, you know, the case is over, they drag him out into the street and execute him. He'll have 10 years of appeals. It's. It's. It won't be life in prison, but it won't be an instantaneous execution. So, Krish, what do you think?
Chris Woodward Well, it.
Ed Vitagliano What's your opinion?
Chris Woodward It's. Well, number one, I don't have a problem with the death penalty. and I never have. those are my own personal opinions.
Ed Vitagliano Because you can't work here if you do.
Chris Woodward Right. Those are my own personal opinions. And the views and opinions Krish Woodward do not necessarily reflect the American Family Association. but I don't have a problem with the death penalty. Never have. I think it should be applied in this case. what is. What I would be. I would not be surprised if they do appeal this, to say that it was hard for him to get a fair trial because, you can't find an impartial judge or jury or whatever else. We had a similar situation several years ago, based on the Sarnayev guy, that he bought his brother. Yeah.
The jury in Lindsey Clancy's murder trial appears to be deadlocked
They plotted to and bombed the, Boston race, and many people died in that. And there was a manhunt. They found this one alive, the other guy was dead, all that stuff. When the, court, ruled that he should die, his attorneys challenged that to the Supreme Court and said, well, it was hard for him to get a fair trial, in America because, you can't go anywhere without somebody having an opinion about this. I think that is becoming more difficult in America, because of all the information that's out there. You can't go to a gym or an airport or a restaurant in Tupelo, Mississippi, without a, television being on and something, being on.
Ed Vitagliano The only thing I know you're not arguing for this, but the only thing. One of the things wrong with that argument on the part of defense attorneys is that that actually incentivizes high profile murders. M. Because the higher profile, the person you kill, okay, that means you automatically get a pass because you can't get a fair trial. And so I think what you do is you just simply say, we're picking people who say they will not be influenced and they'll make a fair and impartial judgment. And you just have to go with that. Otherwise you're basically broadcasting to people that, hey, you want to kill someone high profile, you can get away with it or get life in prison, because.
Wesley Wildmon Or a deal.
Ed Vitagliano Or a deal because you can't, quote, unquote, get a fair trial.
Chris Woodward Yeah, well, you know, the Luigi Mangione situation, where prosecutors say he shot and killed the, health care executive, and then finally he enters a plea deal, to get out of it after months of these people showing up and like, fangirling him.
Speaker H Yeah.
Chris Woodward And there was a Concern that he was going to inspire people to do the same. The argument being, well, he had it coming. Right, you know, right, so. And now you've seen all these people gather in support of Lindsey Clancy outside the courthouse, not paying any attention to what's going on in the court.
Ed Vitagliano Well, what's the latest update on that?
Chris Woodward Yes, it's funny you should ask.
Wesley Wildmon Yeah.
Chris Woodward So yesterday, the judge sent the jury home again under the instruction of don't talk to anybody. Look at anything, read anything, watch anything. and we'll come back again. Yesterday morning, there was some concern that it might be headed for mistrial because the jury told the judge, we're, we're deadlocked. We can't reach a decision here. But the judge said, I don't care. Keep talking. They spent the rest of the day talking about things. He sent them home. But they are back again today, so we may get a decision. Stay with AFN for details on this developing story.
Ed Vitagliano Fred, I gotta say, this. This. This is kind of stunning that it's deadlocked. Okay. So as far as I know, you tell me if I'm right here. My understanding of this case is that the attorneys for Lindsey Clancy. Now, this is. Again, I don't know if we mentioned this. This is the case where she allegedly murdered. Strangled her three children to death. And the defense is arguing that she had postpartum psychosis.
Chris Woodward Correct.
Ed Vitagliano Okay. So my understanding is that it's not an issue whether or not she killed them.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Ed Vitagliano The issue is, was she responsible for what she did? I frankly find it stunning that this
Fred Jackson is a deadlock jury, criminally responsible. That's what they're deciding. What's interesting and, just listening to the legal experts out there, there are nine women and three men on this jury. There's also a range of age. The speculation is the older people want to find her guilty.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Fred Jackson They're not accepting her mental state as being an excuse for why those three little children are dead. The younger women, perhaps on that jury, have a closer attachment to the idea of the problem of postpartum blues. And in this case, the psychosis added into that. There is also the argument that she was on, like, 25 different prescriptions and what that would do to a human body, to the brain. So, when you say, why are they having this debate? One of the answers to that question appears to be that age range. The nine women, three men, and the age range that different, ages, gender and age. Gender and age. They look at things differently. I'm not saying I agree with either side on that. It's very. Fox is using a defense lawyer, as their expert on this. And she's been around for a long time. She says I go back and forth. I have sympathy for, Lindsay Clancy sometimes because of her mental state, and other times I want, you know, throw the book at her.
Ed Vitagliano I gotta say, I read the
Wesley Wildmon report, though, where while she was taking that many medicines, she didn't have any of that in her system when she murdered her kids.
Ed Vitagliano Listen, I. I would have sympathy with Lindsay Clancy if she abandoned her kids, if she ran off with the milkman and said, I'm starting a new life. I can't take this anymore. But not strangling them. All right, I just. That's okay.
There is a concern that this trial might be headed for mistral
So let me. Before we go to the break here, I'm asking two news guys, let's say this is a mistrial. It's deadlocked. They can't. The judge can't get a decision out of the jury. She can be retried, right?
Fred Jackson That is correct.
Ed Vitagliano And the trial would again center on whether she's criminally. Was, criminally responsible. Is that right?
Fred Jackson That's correct. And even if she's found not guilty, she's going into a mental institution for a very long time.
Ed Vitagliano But you'd have to have a jury rule.
Fred Jackson Yes.
That.
Ed Vitagliano That's what they want.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Chris Woodward Okay, now, to make that more of a concern real quick, there is a concern that it might be headed for mistral, because yesterday there was a woman outside the courtroom trying to take a picture of the jury as it exited the courthouse, causing concern from a whole bunch of people that, hey, something wrong is going on here.
American Family Radio Network panel welcomes Jenna Ellis after a short break
Ed Vitagliano All right, all right. Well, we're going to come back at. We're going to take a short break, folks. You're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. Today, our panel will welcome, after the break, Jenna Ellis. We're going to talk about. We'll get her take on this Lindsey Clancy thing and then ask about another case that's happening. And we hope you will join us, Friend.
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Tim Wildmon Greece and Italy. We're going there in the spring of 2027. Hello everyone, I'm Tim Wildmon, president of American Family association and American Family Radio. My sons Walker Wesley are going to be leading a tour of Greece which includes, many of the sites found in the Book of Acts where Paul traveled. And then we, call this the Footsteps of Paul. And then we're going to Italy. By we, I mean Allison. My wife and I are leading a group to Italy to see the sights of that great country, including Rome. We're going to visit Rome and that'll take a couple, three days to see all the in Rome. And so we're going to visit the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo, you may have heard of him, he was a slightly better than average artist. So we're going to be going there. If you want all the information on our tours of Italy and Greece, go to tours.afa.net that's tours.afa.net enter his gates with Thanksgiving.
Jenna Ellis Go into his courts with praise. Give thanks to him and praise his name. Psalm 100.
This is today's Issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of, today's Issues and
Ed Vitagliano welcome back Ed Battagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today. He should be back here in studio tomorrow. I'm, joined in studio my Fred Jackson, Wesley Wildmon and Krish Woodward. And now we want to welcome Jenna Ellis who is host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am, central time on AFR and she is host of the On Demand podcast that you can [email protected] and she's also just an all around nice person. Jenna welcome back to today's issues.
Jenna Ellis Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate that. And always great to be with you.
The trial of Lindsay Clancy, accused of murdering her three children, is nearing mistrial
Ed Vitagliano All right, so, we were talking about before the break, this Lindsey Clancy circus. Okay. It is kind of a media circus, and apparently it is, might be nearing mistrial. The mistrial stage, because the jury remains deadlocked. So, kind of tell us what you think about all, ah, this. We are curious what. As to what is going on. Our, understanding is that there's no question legally about whether or not Lindsey Clancy did this. Murdering her three children by strangulation, but that she. Her defense is arguing that she's not criminally responsible. I'm actually more interested in what people are thinking who support her kind of. Tell us what you think about this and any legal insights you might have. Have.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, I'm. I'm wondering what people are thinking too, because, her defense is not suggesting that anyone else is responsible, but they are suggesting that Lindsay Clancy isn't criminally responsible because apparently, she went through this 18 minute psychosis, heard a voice, that was telling her to commit these acts. And my perspective is, even if everything the defense claims about this alleged psycho psychosis is true, which you can't prove, and you also can't disprove it, right? Which is one of the problems. But even if all of that is totally accurate, I don't care. There, there. That should not be an excuse or a defense for criminal liability for murdering three children. I think that the insanity defense has been way overused and broadened in America to allow people to escape criminal responsibility when the only rational way that this is any way relevant should be at sentencing, maybe as mitigation, to say, you know, listen, put her in, you know, a mental institution for the rest of her life instead of prison, or in contemplation of a plea agreement up front, but in no way should this be in any way relevant to her criminal responsibility. So, that's my opinion on this. But, you know, the court of public opinion has been just insane to watch. I mean, no pun intended there, but literally insane, where people are suggesting that just because they empathize with her, they feel bad for her or, you know, they can relate. I mean, there are videos now on Tik Tok of mothers who are. Who are, using the hashtag same Lindsay, suggesting that they understand somehow, the. The heinous murders of her three children. And what does that say about a culture that is actually suggesting that doesn't matter the facts. It matters the emotion. But that's what the left has been telling us for a really long time. And the left has also been telling us for a really long time that we should live in this sort of Marxist, worldview where oppressor and oppressed in these categories matter. And Lindsay Clancy is a woman, and she has been oppressed by the patriarchy for so long. And there are so many tiktoks that are blaming her husband for various things. You know, blaming the medical doctors and you. This poor woman who is just yielding to her hormones. She is the oppressed. And so it doesn't matter her conduct. She can literally get away with murder according to them, in this kind of, you m. Know, Marxist view. It's the same exact conversation we had with Carmelo Anthony, the, the young, you know, black high school student who stabbed a white track star. And it became more about race than it did the conag. I don't care what the melanin shade of his skin is. I care about what he did in terms of the act. And I think that if we are truly going to have a just and moral society, we have to care about the act more than we have to. More than we care about the, intrinsic personal characteristics of the perpetrators.
Wesley Wildmon Also add to that. Also care about the victims.
Yes.
Wesley Wildmon because that's something that's left out. You know, the group of mostly women that are protesting this in favor of our sympathy for Clancy. I wonder if they were at the, autopsy when and saw the three children and then. Well, I don't know if that would actually change their mind. But, you know, as a human being, as a Christian, I empathize and think through what the victims had to suffer in light of, how I come to my conclusion. By the way, I'm glad we had you on. I share your position and I shared mine yesterday, but it was not as articulate as yours. So good job.
Jenna Ellis I appreciate that. And I've been talking about this, just prolifically on my show. In fact, I had Isabel Brown from the Daily Wire, who is, ah, very articulate and, you know, phenomenal, on this morning and we were talking about this. So, you know, not. Not the first time going through this because as a society we do need to contemplate that, but, you know, even how heinous these murders were, and this wasn't something that, you know, they're trying to, Some are trying to shade as some kind of mercy killings and, it's. It's just a ridiculous fabrication. But I don't think that it would change their minds. Why? Because abortion is just as heinous and women every day choose to murder their children by literal dismemberment, inside the womb and extracting their, their living children from the womb. And so is it really that much of a leap to now say, okay, well, you know, three years and five years after birth, we can still, murder them in heinous ways. I mean, this is the logical conclusion of where the anti life argument has gone.
Fred Jackson Jen, it's Fred. So what happens if sometime today or the next few days, this jury comes back and says, sorry, judge, we still cannot come up with a unanimous decision? My understanding is, the judge says, okay, then we have to have a new trial. But is the prosecution allowed to present the same case to a new jury? can she be tried on those arguments again? What happens if. And it sounds like it could well go to this. We can't come up with a decision from this jury.
Jenna Ellis Yeah. Which isn't that wild? I mean, what do they possibly have to contemplate? And it's going to be very interesting to see whether, if they are deadlocked and there is a mistrial declared, whether the judge polls the jury so that the prosecution and the defense can see not only the gender distribution, because a lot of people are questioning that there are three men and seven women on the jury, but they can also see, you know, where was the deliberation. And part of it in just my guess, because obviously no one has talked to the jury, is that because this isn't a straightforward guilty or not guilty by, you know, reason of insanity, there are five different selections, and there's kind of a range that the jury can, hold for their verdict. It can be, you know, murder down to manslaughter to not guilty, because of not criminally liable, and then, or no criminal responsibility and then full not guilty. And so when you look at all of those options, it's entirely possible that the jury is kind of weighed between, you know, one or several of these options and can't reach a unanimous verdict. so I'd be very interested to see if the jury is pulled. some legal, experts that I was listening to on Court tv, throughout this process have said that, this particular state, just how they govern juries isn't, doesn't typically do that. But, because of the nature of this case, it wouldn't surprise me if the judge goes ahead and does that. So I think if they do that will inform the prosecution and the defense maybe how to move forward. But basically this just resets the clock entirely. So, speedy trial starts anew. the whole process of the trial starts again. the parties can reach a plea agreement. I mean, they could reach a plea agreement today anytime before the jury even returns a verdict. So it basically starts the whole thing over again. And double jeopardy does not attach because the, jury was unable to reach a verdict. So the prosecution absolutely can bring the exact same case, the exact same charge, and, essentially retry this all over again, which I think would actually be more helpful to the prosecution than the defense because, initially, and there have been a lot of comments, in this regard, that the prosecution did better in their closing argument than the initial couple of weeks stages of this trial. So maybe they'll, be a little more polished. And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see, though, what type of jury you can get that on a second round where people haven't already made up their minds.
Chris: Double jeopardy does not attach if there's a mistrial declared
Ed Vitagliano before we get to the second, case that we wanted to discuss, let me just make sure, that I, and our listeners understand when you say double jeopardy, you're saying that if Lindsey Clancy was found not guilty by the jury in the trial, she cannot be charged on those in a second case, in a second trial, she cannot be, brought up on those same charges. Right?
Jenna Ellis Yeah. If there, if there's a not guilty, if there is a verdict reached, that's it. So we're only talking about double jeopardy does not attach if there's a mistrial declared because the jury is deadlocked. And so, you know, some people are asking, well, how can she go to trial a second time? It's because the jury would not have reached a verdict.
Ed Vitagliano Okay, that's helpful. All right, Krish, let's pitch, the other, story to, Jenna.
SUNY Broome tells Christian student ministry it must accept non-Christians
Chris Woodward All right, so I'll set it up this way. SUNY Broome, a community college in NewSong York state, has told a Christian student ministry known as InterVarsity that it can only operate on campus if InterVarsity is willing to let non Christians lead its prayer, worship, and Bible teaching, thinking this is unconstitutional. The Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty filed a federal lawsuit recently on behalf of InterVarsity. And I spoke to Beckett attorney Colton Stanberry for a story airing today on radio. Here is Colton in clip seven.
Ed Vitagliano You know, to do effective ministry, especially effective Christian ministry, we have to have, leaders that believe the same thing we do. And they went back and forth with the university and the university Ultimately said, you know, sorry, we're not changing our policy. and so where negotiation and discussion failed, we had to file a lawsuit.
Chris Woodward I was curious, Jenna, in terms of why we continue to have these kinds of cases in court, because this is not the first time a campus has told a faith based organization you must operate this way. Why is it that these things continue to, happen?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, it's a great question. And you know, unfortunately, some of these anti, religious, institutions want to continue challenging the law, maybe on a different novel theory or because, you know, they just think that they can get away with it and perhaps this particular religious organization isn't going to be able to mount a legal fight. Right. so there could be a variety of reasons, but that won't change the outcome. the interesting part of this too is that, you know, while, some are suggesting that that this, you know, is about a, an institution saying, well, we have to remain neutral, under, you know, the First Amendment and they'll claim that kind of as a defense, SUNY is not remaining neutral in this case. It's imposing a theological governance rule. And so the state doesn't become neutral by telling a Christian ministry that Christianity is an impermissible qualification for Christian leadership. I mean that's direct government interference with the ministry's identity and the mission. And it's also compelled association. So I mean this also goes against, the constitutionally protected right to freedom of association. Because intervarsity, the, the religious organization here formed for the purpose of advancing a specific Christian message and requiring it to accept leaders who may reject that message, changes the organization's speech from within. And so freedom of association ultimately is hollow if the state can dictate who speaks for the association.
Ed Vitagliano Okay, well, I don't know why this, Sunni, broom, I've never heard of the community broom, by the way. This is, I've heard of SUNY State University of NewSong York. They got a pretty wide ranging university system in NewSong York. I've never heard of broom, but I've heard of Hogwarts.
Jenna Ellis They have brooms.
Ed Vitagliano That's a whole different set of issues there. I don't know why these schools continue to ignore the clear instruction of the Supreme Court. I don't know at what point, you know, have a federal court say, listen, this is settled law. You're clearly disregarding what the supreme court says, $5 billion fine or something, you know, to stop this kind of stuff. Because there apparently is on the part of SUNY broom, there's apparently no downside to just saying, we know what the Supreme Court has said. We're going to be obnoxious.
Jenna Ellis Yeah, there's no consequence attached for violating the, the constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech, freedom of association, free exercise of religion. And so maybe that's where the law needs to change and say, you know, if you have, if you have gone against, the, the constitutionally protected principles as the state and as a, state colleges and you are found in breach of that, it's not just, okay, well, fine, we're going to let them associate then. I mean, they're not risking anything. If, if they're only risking attorneys fees, which, you know, as a state they're not really paying for anyway, the taxpayers are, then there's no downside. And so the law needs to catch up with that and say there should be a downside and there should be civil penalties that are attached.
Next week is the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder
Ed Vitagliano All right, Jenna, once again you cleared the, you cleared the bases with a couple of home runs here and we appreciate your analysis, your insight, your expertise. what do you got cooking for your show tomorrow?
Jenna Ellis Yeah, so, so we're still going to be covering the Lindsey Clancy case, obviously, you know, that's really big, in the news. And then also next week, of course, on Thursday is the one year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder. And I'm really, excited to have Andrew Colvett, who was a dear friend of Charlie's, and is a spokesperson for tpusa and was Charlie's executive producer, is going to join me, on Thursday next week to talk about, you know, his, his personal, life over the last year, how TPUSA has dealt with that and memorialized Charlie. So that's coming up and I can't believe that it's already been a year.
Ed Vitagliano It's hard to believe. That sounds like a great show. next week. All your shows are great. Jenna, thanks for checking in with us and you have a great rest of your day.
Jenna Ellis All right, thanks guys. Appreciate it.
Some universities are putting gender transition coverage in student health insurance plans
Ed Vitagliano That was, Jenna Ellis, host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, heard weekdays at 7am Central Time on AFR. She's host of the On Demand podcast. By the way. You can find podcasts, not only of shows that have already aired, but some shows that do not air on our network in terms of our regular rotation, but do have podcasts available to listen to. And the On Demand podcast is one of those. So you go to afr.net there is a little, drop down menu says podcasts and you can find all sorts of things to listen to if you have taken a big trip or you're working in the yard or you're working at home and you want to listen and learn. lots of great options [email protected] alright Krish, what's next?
Chris Woodward One more reason to pay extra attention to where your kid and your money is going when it comes to college. Universities have launched their 2026, 2027 student health insurance plans and at least some are retaining coverage for chemical sex changes or gender transition stuff. this was uncovered by Campus Reform, which is an education watchdog. I talked to their editor in chief, Zachary Marshall about this. He told me that in some cases, Rochester, Johns Hopkins and other universities, they're not only putting this in health insurance plans, but they're forcing kids to pay for it in addition to their tuition, which I'm sure is outrageous.
Speaker H Clip 6 this is something we want to call out and make people aware of because in the case of Johns Hopkins, students are automatically enrolled in this plan unless they complete a waiver. But that's not always communicated in the most clearest terms to students. And it's also part of University of Rochester's plan to offer what they call gender affirming care and sex change related coverage. It's a problem that students who depend on these insurance plans to have coverage are being forced to pay for the lifestyle choices of a fringe minority of students. It is an elective and a choice to have surgeries that make you think you're changing your gender. But it is not something that everyone should be forced to pay for.
Chris Woodward I would strongly caution anybody to go, well, that's not where my child goes to school, or that's not the school I root for or whatever. I guarantee you that these kinds of things happen at schools near you or maybe even the one that you support financially. It's just been uncovered, that it's going on at these particular universities.
Ed Vitagliano You know Fred, a couple of things here. first of all, if anybody's ever worked out in the yard, okay, weeds are a persistent thing. They're always growing back. You may not have good stuff growing, it may be hard to get good stuff to grow, but the weeds are always there, always trying to make a comeback. And that's what I thought of as Krish was walking us through this story, is that the Trump administration has plainly laid out where it wants education, institutions of education to go on this issue. but these people are persistent. They just won't give up their ideology. And they, continue to break the rules, sidestep the obvious, sometimes even breaking not just federal rules, but in Florida, for example, the state there, the DeSantis administration, having to watch the schools to make sure they're complying. It's pretty stunning to see how committed these people remain to this bizarre ideology.
Fred Jackson Yeah, they're committed. And, unfortunately, many times when the government steps in and says, look, you're doing something that you know is wrong, that we have laws against this kind of thing, what happens is that it goes to a court, and the court rules in favor of the university. Yeah, this is what happens. And we dealt with this story just two or three weeks ago, remember when the Trump administration went after Harvard and Columbia over anti Semitism.
Wesley Wildmon Yes.
Fred Jackson On their campuses. And we're going to penalize you, because you have created an environment on your campus that allows Jewish students to basically suffer persecution.
Ed Vitagliano Right.
Fred Jackson So Harvard and Columbia come back and they say, well, working on this, and they go to court, to stop the penalty. And they win before the court, Harvard and Columbia. So that's the battle that you face. So you know what? It comes back really to parents who care about these things. And unfortunately, number one, you got to read the fine print, especially in a case like this. M what our insurance dollars, our medical insurance is going to cover. Read the fine print. And then mom and dad, you got to decide whether you want your Jimmy and Janie go in there, you know, to this kind of school that advocates for this kind of thing.
Ed Vitagliano Well, I'll tell you something else too. I'm thankful that we have a free society where groups like Campus reform, prior story. InterVarsity Fellowship, we have avenues, in which these groups can fight for their constitutional rights. But to your point, Fred, they have to fight.
Fred Jackson Yes.
Ed Vitagliano And parents have to pay attention. And folks, this is why we have exist. We exist so that you find out about these things. You are able to contact groups like InterVarsity, like, like Beckett, like the Beckett Fund. and, we try to keep all of our listeners informed about what's happening and equip them to fight these battles and then provide opportunities for them to do it. Because the weeds keep coming back. Folks. You must ever remain vigilant in order to protect our freedoms. All right, we're going to take a five minute break for news and then Steve Jordal will be in the house. We hope you will return and join us.
Jenna Ellis The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio. M.
Ed Vatagliano sits in for Tim Wildmon alongside Fred Jackson, Wesley Wildmon, and Chris Woodward. The panel discusses escalating United States military action against Iran, including strikes near the Strait of Hormuz and the resulting impact on global oil prices and American fuel costs. A Utah judge found probable cause to send the Charlie Kirk murder case to trial, leaving defendant Tyler Robinson facing a possible death penalty. The panel analyzes the defense strategy and predicts a plea agreement may follow. The jury in the Lindsey Clancy trial remains deadlocked over her postpartum psychosis defense, with a mistrial possible if deliberations fail to produce a verdict. Attorney Jenna Ellis joins the program to discuss both cases. She argues that the insanity defense has been broadly misused and should not eliminate criminal liability for murder. Ellis also addresses the Beckett Fund lawsuit representing InterVarsity against SUNY Broome, where the college is demanding that the Christian ministry permit non-Christians to hold leadership positions. Chris Woodward reports that universities are continuing to include gender transition coverage in mandatory student health insurance plans, requiring students to fund procedures many oppose. The panel notes the persistence of campus ideological battles despite federal pushback.
Chapter Markers
(00:03:19) Iran Conflict and Rising Oil Prices
(00:10:27) Charlie Kirk Murder Trial Advances
(00:20:31) Lindsey Clancy Jury Remains Deadlocked
(00:31:14) Jenna Ellis on Legal Cases
(00:42:11) InterVarsity Religious Liberty Lawsuit
(00:48:31) Universities Retain Gender Transition Coverage
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