Ed Vitagliano: And good morning. Welcome to Today's Issues. I'm Ed Vitagliano, sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week. I am joined in the studio by Wesley Wildmon. Good morning to you, Wesley.
Wesley Wildmon: Good morning.
Ed Vitagliano: So, Wesley, I'm battling a cough.
Wesley Wildmon: You had laryngitis this morning.
Ed Vitagliano: I lost my voice last night and I'm finding it this morning, but it's not all the way back.
Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. Well, you know what? There could be a break or two here this morning. They say, though, a good, deep, raspy voice is good radio.
Ed Vitagliano: I'm not sure who says that.
Tony Vitagliano: I think people with raspy voices say it.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony Vitagliano, good morning to you.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, my voice is completely intact, so I appreciate it.
Ed Vitagliano: You've got a worried look on your face because I have a little bit of sweat on my brow right now. Folks, I've been battling bronchitis, and what you probably don't know if you listened to the show yesterday is that I was really struggling in the latter third of the show to keep from coughing.
I had told both of these young fellows here, "If I have to duck out, you guys just have to carry the show." Wesley joined us as Tony and I were walking downstairs to the studio this morning and said, "I've lost my voice last night," and Tony got this panic look on his face. So if all of a sudden near the end, near the outro, you just hear me go, "Uhh," I went back. That's because Ed pointed to me like, "You've got to do it. Let's pitch it to him."
Live radio, folks, is quite an adventure at times. Speaking of adventure, Chris Woodward is our news guy today. Good morning, Chris.
Chris Woodward: Hello. Hello.
Ed Vitagliano: There we go. That's the enthusiastic greeting that our listeners have come to appreciate. Steve Jordahl has the moniker Steve "Paisley" Jordahl. We need to come up with something for you.
Chris Woodward: Anchorman. He got anchors on his shirt.
Chris Woodward: I prefer to be known for what I bring to the show, not what I wear, but whatever you want to do, as long as I'm gainfully employed.
Ed Vitagliano: There you go. Anchorman.
Tony Vitagliano: We ought to just create a movie or something with that name.
Ed Vitagliano: He would be Anchorman.
Chris Woodward: I'm Chris Woodward.
Ed Vitagliano: I've never actually seen Anchorman.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm pretty sure the AFA Journal probably recommended people not see it.
Chris Woodward: Oh, it's okay.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, let's leave that alone. Sorry for mentioning it, folks.
It is Tuesday, September 15th. I like to note at times how we are in terms of the year. We are officially halfway through September.
The good thing is, guys, things have really cooled off around here.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, we have another heat warning coming up.
Chris Woodward: Yeah, another heat dome.
Ed Vitagliano: We've gotten used to the winter vortex in the winter and the heat dome in the summer. Things have to be exaggerated.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, "Heat Dome" was my favorite Mad Max movie.
Chris Woodward: To add to the doom and gloom about weather, here's the headline from Fox Weather: "Millions under prolonged flash flood threat as relentless storms pummel Midwest, Central Plains."
Ed Vitagliano: Back to you.
Tony Vitagliano: Pummel. So we're being pummeled.
Ed Vitagliano: Millions under threat?
Chris Woodward: Yes.
Ed Vitagliano: Now, in all seriousness, because we are a national network with listeners all over the place, and we thank you for that, if and when you hear about bad weather or it looks like you're going to have bad weather, please keep a check on your local broadcasters. We're in Tupelo, Mississippi, and we will do news as it comes in, but I can't tell you what it looks like right now in Wichita. Do keep in touch with your local forecasters. We'll still be here when you switch back.
Tony Vitagliano: That is important. Frankly, I'm amazed at how accurate the weather is now. It wasn't this way when I was growing up. Now I have my little app on the phone. People have all kinds of different apps for that purpose, but it is very helpful for getting people the information they need so they can take precautions when necessary.
Ed Vitagliano: Heat dome, people getting pummeled. That's the weather forecast for much of the Southeast.
Tony Vitagliano: Is it in the Midwest, this heat dome, as well?
Chris Woodward: Yeah, parts of the Midwest.
Chris Woodward: People may not realize this, but one asset that we have as a news outlet is that the gentleman doing our news in the afternoon is actually a meteorologist as well. He's Dr. Robert Thornton.
Ed Vitagliano: I just have a B.A. in communication.
Tony Vitagliano: Student loan debt to prove it.
Chris Woodward: That's not what you're on the loan debt for.
Ed Vitagliano: A doctorate?
Chris Woodward: That's true.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, Chris, let's move to the news.
Chris Woodward: One of the things the government is doing is continuing to crack down on fraud. Vice President J.D. Vance was put in charge of a task force that's trying to find and recover money that people took from the federal government, meaning the taxpayers.
One of the big news stories yesterday afternoon that is still getting coverage today was an announcement from J.D. Vance that about 870,000 people were suspected of defrauding COVID-era programs. That story was reported from Kansas City, Missouri. He was joined by various people, including the new attorney general, Todd Blanche. He said, "If you take money from the American taxpayer, the federal government is now going to cut you off. You shouldn't be applying anymore. If you do apply, you're no longer able to get those benefits," referring to programs the government put in place.
Tony Vitagliano: I don't know what's happening to the money that the federal government is finding, but this is a good thing because everybody that's working and paying into taxes, we're getting ripped off, and have been for a long time.
Ed Vitagliano: It's 870,000 people. What was that number again?
Chris Woodward: 870,000 people.
Ed Vitagliano: Do we have an estimate on the amount of money that was technically stolen or defrauded?
Chris Woodward: It's definitely in the millions, if not far more. As it says here, these individuals are suspected of defrauding roughly $39 billion from pandemic-era programs.
Ed Vitagliano: Thirty-nine billion dollars.
Chris Woodward: You remember the PPP, the Paycheck Protection Program, that was created for small businesses? Even larger businesses could apply for it. There were other programs, too, that people could apply for. Apparently, these individuals were fraudulently collecting payments from those programs.
Tony Vitagliano: I think it's shocking that government programs would be mismanaged to the point where they're just handing out money without keeping up with where it's actually going.
Ed Vitagliano: So I'm guessing there's a consequence here.
Chris Woodward: Jail time, if they actually find you and can convict you in a court of law. This stuff goes back years.
Ed Vitagliano: This administration is a completely different administration now. Todd Blanche is a no-nonsense attorney general and has been ever since he became acting attorney general when President Trump and then-Attorney General Pam Bondi parted ways. He seems to be pretty serious about it.
This does go back years. We were doing stories during COVID about how people were applying for a loan and then going out and buying a sports car with it. One guy bought a very rare Pokémon card, and all of this was done at taxpayer expense while people were legitimately hurting under COVID policies.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm just going to say something, and folks, please don't misunderstand me. Stealing is wrong. Always. But if I'm going to steal money, I'm at least going to buy a house or a fancy car. I'm not buying a Pokémon card.
Ed Vitagliano: Criminals are rarely responsible.
Tony Vitagliano: It's like, "I'm doing this to pay off my debt. I follow the Dave Ramsey program. I'm actually using this money to pay off my debt."
Ed Vitagliano: Can you imagine? This guy is sitting in a cell, and the cell door opens. Another guy comes in and sits down. The guy asks, "What are you in for?"
Tony Vitagliano: "I used taxpayer money to buy a Pokémon card."
Ed Vitagliano: That guy's going to have a difficult time.
Tony Vitagliano: I am glad to hear that this administration is going after this fraud. This is just one of many examples that J.D. Vance has been able to present to the American people of this administration cutting down on fraudulent activity.
Ed Vitagliano: This doesn't need to stop. It needs to continue. What's sad is that both sides of the aisle ought to be applauding this.
Tony Vitagliano: Right. It's everybody's money.
Ed Vitagliano: Listen, we saw Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. I don't know, Chris, if I'm exaggerating this, but he was almost running interference for these groups that were supposedly creating learning centers or day care and other kinds of things for kids, while simply pilfering the treasury. I don't know why you don't see as many Democrats protesting this.
Chris Woodward: Unless they think it's a payoff to people who are voting for them. I think that is one factor, but the big picture here is Donald Trump. It's the Trump administration, and they don't want to give him credit for anything.
Just as he said in that first presidential address back in 2025, "I could be standing up here giving you the cure for cancer, and you would not stand and applaud." They just literally hate the man. That's basically what it boils down to.
Ed Vitagliano: That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about the fact that it is the Trump administration spearheading this, starting with DOGE and now continuing with the Justice Department. If the Trump administration is spearheading it, they can't applaud, even though under normal circumstances they might.
Chris Woodward: Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has also been speaking out against Republican-led efforts. Democrats have claimed that this is part of some sort of effort to make Democrats look bad, to be political and highlight the problems in blue states. But this is where a lot of this stuff is occurring. Would you rather have the federal government looking somewhere else, where it doesn't happen as much? It makes no sense.
Ed Vitagliano: All right. Frank is ready. Dr. Frank Turek is joining us. He's host of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, heard Saturdays at 9 a.m. Central Time and Sundays at 4 p.m. Central Time here on AFR. Frank, welcome to the program.
Frank Turek: Thanks, gentlemen. I just got back from the University of Georgia a few minutes ago. I was there last night, and the entire presentation, including about an hour and a half of questions and answers, is on our YouTube channel, the CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: There's always something a little peculiar about the address there that you make sure people know, right?
Frank Turek: It's CrossExamined with two words.
Ed Vitagliano: Two words.
Frank Turek: Two words. That YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Frank Turek: We had a lot of good questions last night about The War on Reality, which is the title of our new book. The main question we were addressing was whether it is right and fair to judge people based on their origin, their sex or their religion, or whether it is fair and right to judge people based on their behavior.
Everybody in the class said, "Behavior," yet many on the left are judging people by the category they're placed in. Are they white or black? Are they male or female? Are they a citizen or not? What religion are they? Are they straight or gay? They're judged by a category rather than by their individual behavior.
The Bible talks about judging people impartially by their behavior, not by their so-called status or identity group, but we've gotten away from that in this country lately.
Ed Vitagliano: We talked about this yesterday. I don't know if you heard about this, Frank. Under normal circumstances, this would just be hilarious because it sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit, but these people were serious. It involved women identifying themselves as non-practicing white people. Did you see this?
Frank Turek: No.
Ed Vitagliano: Do you have it? Can you play it?
Tony Vitagliano: We're looking for it.
Ed Vitagliano: This is a real thing that someone posted, and it went viral. We've got it. We're going to play it. Frank, you have to hear this, and I want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker: The whole doctor in the Lindsay Clancy trial was a Black man, and I'm not going to share any opinions because I'm not a person of color. I am a non-practicing white. I'm surprised. It changes the landscape of the conversation a little bit, and I think a lot of us were assuming that it was a white man.
I need to confess that this comment I laughed at was stolen. I totally saw "non-practicing white" in somebody else's comment section, and I loved it so much that I'm using it. I plan to make it part of my bio. Non-practicing white. Here I am.
Ed Vitagliano: There, a white woman said she was white and non-practicing, and now that is her identity: non-practicing white person.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm a thief.
Ed Vitagliano: The montage we had was actually longer than that. There were more people saying they wanted to identify as non-practicing white people. But this goes to your point and the point of your new book, The War on Reality. How do you actually think you are a non-practicing white person? The only way you can do that is if white is bad, the category itself.
Frank Turek: Yes. Really, they should call themselves non-thinking white people.
Ed Vitagliano: How about just non-thinking people?
Frank Turek: The Bible is so clear about this. Even Martin Luther King obviously had this right. Let's not judge people by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. We've gotten completely away from that.
Now we're going back to racism, allegedly to combat old racism.
Ed Vitagliano: That's what we need to do, Frank. We need to introduce new racism in order to fix old racism. That will fix everything.
Ed Vitagliano: We were stunned by that yesterday. We poked fun at these mostly white women who were claiming, and I think there was one guy who said it, although who am I to judge whether it was a guy or a girl?
Tony Vitagliano: You're a non-practicing white male.
Ed Vitagliano: I don't even know how to consider being a non-practicing white male. The whole thing is ludicrous, but these people were serious, Frank.
Let me ask you this. We asked our folks to pray for your event yesterday. We're going to give you a moment to tell us what else you have going on this week. But as you go from college campus to college campus, is this kind of thinking, maybe not that exact statement, but the thinking or non-thinking that produces it, so deeply rooted on our college campuses that you grow discouraged about the future of our country?
Frank Turek: It's rooted in many members of the faculty, not as much in the students. Last night I introduced this cultural Marxist binary, where you say certain people are oppressors and other people are oppressed.
According to this, anybody who is white, heterosexual, male, a citizen in the United States, someone who has some income and is a Christian, is automatically considered an oppressor, regardless of what your personal behavior is. You could have the character of Jesus, but if you have those qualities, you're automatically considered an oppressor.
People of color, people who are LGBTQ, non-Christians and noncitizens are considered oppressed, regardless of their behavior. They get bonus points if they're illegal immigrants.
I showed this last night, and you can see the whole presentation on the CrossExamined YouTube channel. I asked the 350 or so people there, mostly students, how many had seen this binary. Only about 10% had.
This is prevalent all over social media and the internet. We're now judging people based on the color of their skin, their gender, whether or not they're Christians, whether or not they're male, and whether or not they're citizens. It has nothing to do with personal behavior. It's completely mad.
Ed Vitagliano: For our last question or topic, we want you to interact with Frank. If you're just tuning in, the voice you're hearing is Dr. Frank Turek, host of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, heard Saturdays at 9 a.m. Central Time and Sundays at 4 p.m. Central Time here on AFR. Please check out his CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Chris, you had something about today in history, and we wanted to get Frank's take on it.
Chris Woodward: I like to look at today in history, specifically from Britannica. I think they do the best job of reporting things that happened on this day in history. On September 15th, way back in the day, 1835 to be exact, Charles Darwin visited the Galápagos Islands, which was instrumental in his theory of evolution.
What should we as believers and creationists do in response to what evolutionists are probably celebrating today?
Frank Turek: We need to look at what Darwin actually discovered. Do you know what he actually discovered? He discovered that the proportion of large-beaked finches to small-beaked finches changed with the weather.
If you had a dry season, the large-beaked finches tended to survive better because they had stronger beaks to get seeds out of harder ground. The smaller-beaked finches did better in wetter weather because they didn't necessarily need the stronger beaks.
All Darwin saw was a change in the population between large-beaked and small-beaked finches. What Darwin never could explain is the origin of finches themselves.
Natural selection will help you understand the survival of a species, but not the arrival of a species. Microevolution is true, meaning that when conditions change, those species that have certain characteristics that allow them to thrive in that environment will survive.
Ed Vitagliano: That makes sense. Species that don't have the right characteristics won't survive. Big deal. But it doesn't tell you where the species came from to begin with.
The idea that if you just add up these small microevolutionary changes, you're going to get a new kind of creature, has not been proven by the data. In fact, it's the opposite. Macroevolution has not been proved. There is so much evidence against macroevolution that even Darwinists are now admitting that the theory is bankrupt.
Let me ask you this for folks who are interested in what you just said. Do you cover this a lot on your YouTube channel?
Frank Turek: Oh, yeah. We especially cover the evolution material, and it is also covered in the new book, The War on Reality.
If people get The War on Reality, we're going to talk about beginnings, where the universe came from, where the first life came from and subsequent life forms. We cover all that in The War on Reality. It just came out a few days ago.
Ed Vitagliano: Let me ask you this one last thing, and then I want to give you a chance to let our listeners know where you're going next.
When you said that a lot of evolutionists, whether or not they are Christian, are having second thoughts about macroevolution, is that real, or is that just something creationists are saying?
Frank Turek: It's real. In fact, ten years ago, in 2016, the Royal Society in the United Kingdom, one of the most prestigious scientific affiliations in the world, held a conference to talk about the problems with Darwinian theory. Isaac Newton used to be a member of it.
They said they basically needed to find a new theory because the current theory didn't work. They didn't come up with a new theory, but they're admitting what the intelligent-design people have been saying for decades: the theory cannot explain where new life forms came from. It can't explain the new information needed in the genome to get a new body plan, and it can't explain the new parts of a body required to get a new body plan that DNA does not provide.
It's called epigenetic information. Without getting too technical, discoveries in recent decades have shown the complete bankruptcy of Darwinian theory. Even atheistic Darwinists are admitting this.
Ed Vitagliano: Frank, it's always great to hear from you. You just, as Tim would say, put the cookies on the bottom shelf for us folks who are not trained in these areas.
Let our listeners know where you're going to be in the next days or weeks. Do you want people to show up at the events, pray for you or what?
Frank Turek: All of the above would be great. I'm going to be at a church near Branson, Missouri, this weekend, then at a homeschool conference in Myrtle Beach next week. Following that, I'll be at Arizona State University on September 28th. I'm also speaking at a church in Tucson the day before that. It's all on our website, CrossExamined.org.
We'll be here this weekend with another edition of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. The complete John Lennox interview is going to be released tonight on our YouTube channel. We played excerpts from it on the American Family Radio Network last weekend, but the complete interview was too long to fit in the radio program.
If you want to see the entire John Lennox interview that I had with Dr. Lennox in Oxford a few weeks ago, it will be released tonight on the CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, Frank. Thanks. We appreciate it.
Frank Turek: God bless you guys. See you.
Ed Vitagliano: Folks, we're going to take a short break, and we'll be back with more of Today's Issues.
Don Wildmon: It's a fascinating world we live in. A humorous little incident happened down in Florida some time ago that brings this to mind.
A fellow who had not kept up with the modern world very much wanted to do a little traveling. He wanted to go from Chattahoochee, which is on the edge of the Eastern Time Zone, to Marianna, which is on the edge of the Central Time Zone.
When the fellow came down to the bus station at Chattahoochee to buy a ticket to Marianna, he walked up to the ticket window and asked, "What time is the next bus to Marianna?"
The reply came back, "Twelve o'clock."
"And what time does it get to Marianna?" asked the fellow.
The agent replied, "Twelve o'clock."
The fellow stepped back and thought for a moment. Then he stepped back up to the window.
"Boss," he said, "would you mind going through that one more time? I'm a-thinking I missed you somewhere. What time does that bus leave for Chattahoochee?"
"Twelve o'clock," said the agent.
"And what time does it get to Marianna?"
The agent could hardly keep from grinning. The fellow stepped back, scratched his head a little and looked at the agent. After a moment of silence, the agent spoke.
"Well, do you want to get a ticket?"
The fellow shook his head from side to side. "No, sir. But if you don't mind, I sure think I'd like to stick around for a while. I want to see that thing when it takes off."
Yes, for that fellow and for us, it's a fascinating world. Man's knowledge in the last ten years will double again in the next seven. We think nothing of men walking in space, on the moon, or a picture traveling through the air.
Science tells us that anything theoretically possible can be achieved. It's a fascinating world. But then why shouldn't it be? Do we think this old world was not made for greatness? Of course it was.
Man was not made to be a number. Man was made for greatness. We read that man was created in God's own image. You see, we're made by a great Creator and in the image of that Creator. That means that if He is great, then we too are made for greatness.
The trouble begins when we forget this. Although you may be only a number to our government, a customer to the phone company or a name on the class roll, that does not diminish your importance.
Despite the fact that there are millions of quarters in circulation, it does not make any quarter less valuable at face value. We make a terrible mistake when we sell ourselves short. Every one of us, in our own way, was made for greatness. Never, ever forget that.
Yes, it's a fascinating world. It's fascinating because it's a great world, and it's a great world because it has a great Creator. When you look at the thing in its fullness, you get the idea He planned it that way. In fact, He planned it that way because He loves us.
Ed Vitagliano: And welcome back. I'm Ed Vitagliano, sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week. I'm joined in the studio by Wesley Wildmon and Tony Vitagliano. Voice-wise, we're kind of the walking wounded. I'm battling bronchitis and coughing fits that come out of nowhere and can't be stopped.
Wesley lost his voice completely last night, but the Lord brought it back enough because you're doing a devotion at a local Christian school this morning. By the way, how did that go?
Wesley Wildmon: It went really well. Can I share a little bit about what we talked about?
Ed Vitagliano: Absolutely.
Wesley Wildmon: This morning we talked about thankfulness. We talked about how God gives common grace to everybody and how Satan will try to trick or deceive us into thinking that we need more and more, newer and newer, at the expense of enjoying the things we already have.
Getting stuff and acquiring things are not bad in and of themselves. They are amoral. They can be used for good or for evil. But Satan can use those things to get between us and God, even though God is the one who provides them. Then we begin to lose our appreciation for what God has given us.
I gave the students three things we had in common that we could be thankful for. Then I challenged them for a couple of minutes to get together and discuss things they were thankful for.
The three things we had in common were that we live in America, one of the greatest countries in the world, and that we have the First, Second and Fourth Amendments. The second thing we had in common was that the group of about 100 students was in a Christian school, so we could be thankful for Christian education.
The last thing I mentioned that we all had in common was that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins. Our sins have a consequence, and there is a cost to them. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and paid the penalty for them.
Those were things I brought up to get our minds thinking about how to be grateful. Then the students got together, and I called several of them up to the stage so they could share things they were thankful for.
At the end, after I had said "thankful" a hundred times, I had one of the kids on the front row, whom I could tell was really paying attention, so I knew I had the right one. I asked, "What is the message today?"
Ed Vitagliano: After fifteen minutes, it was the same word: thankful.
Wesley Wildmon: He said, "To be thankful."
Ed Vitagliano: It was a trick question, but I appreciate you asking about that.
Wesley Wildmon: That was this morning at a local Christian school where my kids go, and the devotion went really well.
Ed Vitagliano: It sounded great from what you described. A lot of people don't know that you spent a year in a discipleship program and have a heart for the world and for God. That's why you were the brainchild behind the Activate curriculum we have here, which ties together the Word of God and a Christian worldview and provides training for people who want to know how to better present those things.
Wesley Wildmon: It trains us in what the Bible says on the core issues of AFA and gives us tangible ways to live those out. That's what Activate does.
We've got some new things we're going to do with the already-produced curriculum in 2027. Maybe we'll talk about that another day, but we've got some really good creative ideas for how we're going to make the most use of that curriculum.
Ed Vitagliano: You mentioned 2027. Next year is the 50th anniversary of AFA.
Tony Vitagliano: We've got a bunch of things planned.
Wesley Wildmon: That's right, 2027.
Ed Vitagliano: For 2027, we're going to do cage-match fights. We're going to ask Karl to wrestle.
Tony Vitagliano: We're going to try to one-up the president of the United States and his administration.
Ed Vitagliano: One of our ladies here has agreed to go head-to-head in a cage match with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, all done in fun to raise money for AFA. We're very thrilled that AOC was willing to do that to pitch in.
Tony Vitagliano: Goodness.
Ed Vitagliano: Much like Trump says, this is the golden age of America.
Tony Vitagliano: That was a terrible impression.
Ed Vitagliano: You don't need a better one than me. I'm more of a Bernie Sanders guy. Anyway, fifty years next year would be the golden anniversary, the golden era, of the American Family Association.
Tony Vitagliano: I thought the 50th anniversary of our founding was still five years away.
Ed Vitagliano: I better start working on it and thinking about it now.
Chris Woodward: I want to bring up a story out of Massachusetts before we transition back to some other things in the news. Some Catholic parents are fighting in court to regain custody of their 17-year-old daughter and stop Massachusetts authorities from medically transitioning her with high-dose testosterone.
In December 2024, the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families removed the then-15-year-old from her home because her parents, Joseph and Arlene Catusco, would not recognize their daughter as a boy due to their faith and identity change, which they allege staff at Algonquin Regional High School initiated in secret.
There have been many stories about parents claiming that their taxpayer-funded schools are transitioning their children in secret without their parents' knowledge. This is the umpteenth example I've brought onto the show.
I have some audio from Joseph and Arlene talking to a Fox News podcast about this particular situation. Here's a portion of what they had to say.
Speaker: We have not been able to speak with her whatsoever since January of 2025, so I think it's been 19 or 20 months, something like that.
Interviewer: They won't let you talk to her, or she doesn't want to talk to you?
Speaker: I even begged them just to let me hug her or kiss her. They said they could not allow it.
Chris Woodward: I'll share the link to this podcast on our Today's Issues Facebook page. The reason I bring this up is because sometimes people in our audience, or people in general, might think, "I'm not Catholic," or "That's in Massachusetts, and I'm in Mississippi."
This is a story for people everywhere because this kind of thing is happening in school districts across the country. Don't get hung up on the faith group or the state where it is happening. You should care about this because it is happening everywhere.
Ed Vitagliano: Chris, one other thing I want to mention is that these points you're making are excellent. People should not be satisfied simply because the Trump administration has been heroic in its fight against this ideological madness.
There are blue cities, blue states, universities and colleges across the country that have ignored what the Trump administration has said, and they're playing a waiting game. These people are not going to quit trying to promote this ideological madness. They're waiting for someone else to get into office, just as the Biden administration promoted all of this for four years.
Folks, in addition to what Chris has said, don't rest on your laurels. This is a poison that has seeped into the bloodstream of this country, and in places and institutions that have a lot of influence, they're still pushing it.
This example is from Massachusetts. I'm not shocked. That's madness central in a lot of ways in this country.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony, let me ask you this. My hope is that when sanity returns, and some sanity is returning to our country regarding what we call this gender madness or lunacy, people who have promoted it, like the people at the school system, probably backed by the mental health profession in that state, will at some point go to prison. Some of them will at least be sued into oblivion.
I am certain that some of these people are going to wind up in hell if they don't repent over what they have done. God's justice may seem slow in coming sometimes, but it is sure. Jesus Himself said that if you harm young people or children, it would be better for you never to have been born when God gets His hands on you.
Tony, for people like you and Wesley who have kids, or in my case, who are grandparents, this is especially heinous. There were times when you and your sister were growing up when I had a hard time sleeping because I worked here. I knew what was going on in terms of the promotion of homosexuality in schools.
It made it hard to sleep sometimes because these dark forces are out there, scheming to get their hands on kids. Now it has gotten to the point where they want to transition kids and make irrevocable changes to their bodies without the parents having a say in it. How do you deal with that kind of darkness lurking out there?
Tony Vitagliano: I think you devote yourself to the Word of God and to prayer, first and foremost, and spiritually fortify yourself and your household.
I understand that we sometimes jump to the conclusion that everyone can afford to homeschool, or that everyone can afford to send their kids to a private Christian school or a less liberal private secular school. The reality is that things are hard right now, and a lot of people simply don't have that option.
The encouragement I would give parents is to fortify their kids while they're at home with whatever time they have with them at the end of the day, on days off and on weekends. Spend time pouring into them. Ask them questions and keep the lines of communication open.
Don't make them feel like any topic or question is off limits because they're being exposed to these things one way or another in public schools, especially at certain ages. The age of exposure to these issues is dropping, but our children are being exposed to them.
It's our job as parents and grandparents. I also want to encourage grandparents to do the same thing: talk with their children and grandchildren and reinforce a biblical Christian worldview on these sensitive, lightning-rod topics.
The second encouragement I would give is to take the steps necessary if you see this happening in your community or state. That means voting out anybody who is pushing this. You've got to clean house. You cannot give way to these ideas or ideologies, because you see what happens in Massachusetts.
They've been going down this road for a long time and have always been proud of the progressivism they're pushing. This is the end result of that mentality, of the state thinking that the state is their god.
If the state is God, then the state owns your children too. The state can do whatever it wants. It can take your children from you.
These types of stories get me fired up because nobody is taking my kids from me. I feel so bad for these parents who are fighting to get their child back before irreparable damage is done. There's no telling what's already been done. I'll be praying for these parents.
That's my soapbox. I want to encourage you that if you see this happening in your area, eventually it's going to come if we keep going this way, the Lord tarries and we don't get revival. It's coming to your community at some point. Ten years down the road or ten months down the road, you're going to have a story like this in your town.
Chris Woodward: You talked about how people have to be politically aware and active. Debbie Wuthnow, with iVoterGuide, has talked about this. We've done stories about it, but she's talked about the importance of voting down ballot.
Today's school board candidate is tomorrow's state representative or United States congressman. If you don't stop these people where they are right now, it's going to spread.
Also, don't take your state for granted. We live in what's called the Bible Belt, and a lot of people think, "That will never happen here." Massachusetts has a history of being a faith-based government. Harvard was a seminary at one point, one of the oldest in America. Here we are talking today about how liberal they are.
Don't think, "I live in Mississippi. It will never happen here." It will, if you don't do something.
Tony Vitagliano: There are Christian law firms that can help. A lot of them are pro bono, so that's another option to defend your God-given rights as a parent.
Chris, you mentioned iVoterGuide, and we do encourage people to use it. iVoterGuide is the largest database that you can access in our country, and it goes down ballot in a lot of states. It may be different for your state than for others, but there's only one way to find out how far down it goes.
Go to iVoterGuide.com. It is a division of AFA Action, our government-affairs arm. Type in your physical address, not a P.O. box, and you can view your voter guide and see who represents you. A lot of people don't know who their representatives are in their state.
You can find that information at iVoterGuide.com.
Wesley Wildmon: I'll just add this to what Tony was saying. Generally speaking, the Christian worldview and the understanding of what God expects from us as Christians is, for the most part, very simple to understand. But living the Christian life is far more difficult than people make it out to be.
Knowing what is right is not always easy because more times than not, you're going against the grain or against the pressures around you. That's why you see over and over again in the Bible, and in personal testimony, examples of people holding the line or standing in the gap. Over time, other people get on board and realize that even if they were timid at the time, they can respond with courage.
Being a courageous Christian has an effect on people, even though perseverance takes time. Remember that as a Christian throughout your daily life. It isn't easy, but it is very rewarding in the end. We're called to be a good example of Christ in other people's lives.
Ed Vitagliano: Amen.
Tony Vitagliano: Amen.
Ed Vitagliano: Good discussion. All right, Chris, what's next?
Chris Woodward: Let's talk for a moment about energy prices. The president asked Ukraine to stop attacking energy infrastructure in Russia because, according to the president, Ukraine's attacks on Russian diesel facilities in particular have caused problems with the diesel shortage and driven up prices in the last couple of years.
Yesterday afternoon, after Stephen and I swapped out and the show ended, the president announced that Ukraine and Russia had agreed to no longer attack one another's energy infrastructure because blowing things up is impacting everybody.
If you haven't looked at the price of diesel, it's above six dollars a gallon now as a national average. That is a record in the United States of America, and it impacts everybody. Even if you drive a Prius or something that is fully electric, you still pay for high diesel prices when you buy something from a store.
We need to find ways as a world to bring down prices by introducing more supply. That's not something we can do today to fix tomorrow, but it is something the administration needs to focus on.
I'm in the middle of trying to get some energy groups to talk to AFN about this situation. Even if you're not a diesel customer, you're still paying high prices at the pump. I've seen places here in Tupelo above four dollars a gallon now.
Tony Vitagliano: We're usually a little lower than the national average.
Chris Woodward: It's not just truckers. They run on diesel and ship products, and they pay more at the pump for diesel. That's going to raise the price of items at the grocery store.
This is also affecting farmers who use diesel tractors. They have to pass those costs along to customers or to the store. There are a lot of things driving prices up.
I understand what the president is doing. If he can do anything to bring some restraint to the war between Russia and Ukraine, that's a win. But fuel prices, both diesel and gasoline, were affected a little at the start of the Russia-Ukraine war. Most of the increase we've seen over the last year has been part of the aftermath of the Iranian war.
It doesn't help for distribution centers, refineries or anything like that in Russia or Ukraine to be hit. I'm glad the president is trying to urge restraint because the spillover effect on the rest of the world is part of the problem we're all dealing with.
The administration and its allies in Congress, Republicans, have talked about how policies they put in place since Americans elected them after the 2024 election have paid off for the American people. Democrats want people to vote them back into control of the House and Senate, but Senate Majority Leader John Thune says the GOP's economic achievements will help carry them across the finish line.
John Thune: We made the increased standard deduction permanent. We made the lower tax rates permanent, and we made the increased child tax credit permanent. In other words, more money in American families' pockets permanently.
Chris Woodward: A lot of that extra money somebody might be bringing home, or that they got from the IRS in April, has probably gone to the cost of gasoline and their electricity bill. But it is factually accurate to say that Republicans and President Trump approved measures that have allowed Americans to have more money in their pockets.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony, my first reaction to that clip is, "LOL." I don't want to be cynical because all those things Senator Thune mentioned are true and they are good things. I want them to press in and do more.
But when I say "LOL," I'm being a wise guy. The problem for Senator Thune, the rest of the Republicans and the Trump administration is that the sticker shock at the pump and at the grocery store is what sticks in people's minds. When they get the receipt and have to pay, they ask, "I have to pay how much for this?"
Wesley Wildmon: Those kitchen-table economics always seem to drive voting a lot more than things that are true but a little more abstract when people are balancing their checklist.
Tony Vitagliano: I do want to commend Senator Thune. Those are good and helpful policies that will help the average American worker and family, so I'm not going to take away from that.
But the fact of the matter is that inflation is an invisible tax on the American population, and it has been running amok for a very long time. Any benefit on the back end from tax breaks or permanent tax credits is great for everybody when tax season comes around. You might say, "We're getting some money back," or "We don't owe as much because of the tax breaks."
But if you spend a week doing your taxes, for the other 51 weeks of the year you're seeing your savings and wages eaten away by inflation. That is what really has to be addressed.
You mentioned kitchen-table economics. That's exactly what has to be addressed. Until we can find a way to curb inflation, I don't know if it is going to matter to the American people what tax benefits they're getting if every day or every paycheck they're seeing more and more of their money go to everyday commodities and gasoline.
That's going to be a hard sell. Again, I said it yesterday: Go out and vote. Make sure you go out and vote. I'm not trying to depress the vote or depress anybody. We still need to get out and vote. You wouldn't get these tax breaks under a Democratic administration, but it's the reality we're working in right now.
Ed Vitagliano: Good comments. All right, folks, we're going to take a break for news. You're listening to Today's Issues.
Ed Vitagliano: And good morning. Welcome to Today's Issues. I'm Ed Vitagliano, sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week. I am joined in the studio by Wesley Wildmon. Good morning to you, Wesley.
Wesley Wildmon: Good morning.
Ed Vitagliano: So, Wesley, I'm battling a cough.
Wesley Wildmon: You had laryngitis this morning.
Ed Vitagliano: I lost my voice last night and I'm finding it this morning, but it's not all the way back.
Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. Well, you know what? There could be a break or two here this morning. They say, though, a good, deep, raspy voice is good radio.
Ed Vitagliano: I'm not sure who says that.
Tony Vitagliano: I think people with raspy voices say it.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony Vitagliano, good morning to you.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, my voice is completely intact, so I appreciate it.
Ed Vitagliano: You've got a worried look on your face because I have a little bit of sweat on my brow right now. Folks, I've been battling bronchitis, and what you probably don't know if you listened to the show yesterday is that I was really struggling in the latter third of the show to keep from coughing.
I had told both of these young fellows here, "If I have to duck out, you guys just have to carry the show." Wesley joined us as Tony and I were walking downstairs to the studio this morning and said, "I've lost my voice last night," and Tony got this panic look on his face. So if all of a sudden near the end, near the outro, you just hear me go, "Uhh," I went back. That's because Ed pointed to me like, "You've got to do it. Let's pitch it to him."
Live radio, folks, is quite an adventure at times. Speaking of adventure, Chris Woodward is our news guy today. Good morning, Chris.
Chris Woodward: Hello. Hello.
Ed Vitagliano: There we go. That's the enthusiastic greeting that our listeners have come to appreciate. Steve Jordahl has the moniker Steve "Paisley" Jordahl. We need to come up with something for you.
Chris Woodward: Anchorman. He got anchors on his shirt.
Chris Woodward: I prefer to be known for what I bring to the show, not what I wear, but whatever you want to do, as long as I'm gainfully employed.
Ed Vitagliano: There you go. Anchorman.
Tony Vitagliano: We ought to just create a movie or something with that name.
Ed Vitagliano: He would be Anchorman.
Chris Woodward: I'm Chris Woodward.
Ed Vitagliano: I've never actually seen Anchorman.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm pretty sure the AFA Journal probably recommended people not see it.
Chris Woodward: Oh, it's okay.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, let's leave that alone. Sorry for mentioning it, folks.
It is Tuesday, September 15th. I like to note at times how we are in terms of the year. We are officially halfway through September.
The good thing is, guys, things have really cooled off around here.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, we have another heat warning coming up.
Chris Woodward: Yeah, another heat dome.
Ed Vitagliano: We've gotten used to the winter vortex in the winter and the heat dome in the summer. Things have to be exaggerated.
Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, "Heat Dome" was my favorite Mad Max movie.
Chris Woodward: To add to the doom and gloom about weather, here's the headline from Fox Weather: "Millions under prolonged flash flood threat as relentless storms pummel Midwest, Central Plains."
Ed Vitagliano: Back to you.
Tony Vitagliano: Pummel. So we're being pummeled.
Ed Vitagliano: Millions under threat?
Chris Woodward: Yes.
Ed Vitagliano: Now, in all seriousness, because we are a national network with listeners all over the place, and we thank you for that, if and when you hear about bad weather or it looks like you're going to have bad weather, please keep a check on your local broadcasters. We're in Tupelo, Mississippi, and we will do news as it comes in, but I can't tell you what it looks like right now in Wichita. Do keep in touch with your local forecasters. We'll still be here when you switch back.
Tony Vitagliano: That is important. Frankly, I'm amazed at how accurate the weather is now. It wasn't this way when I was growing up. Now I have my little app on the phone. People have all kinds of different apps for that purpose, but it is very helpful for getting people the information they need so they can take precautions when necessary.
Ed Vitagliano: Heat dome, people getting pummeled. That's the weather forecast for much of the Southeast.
Tony Vitagliano: Is it in the Midwest, this heat dome, as well?
Chris Woodward: Yeah, parts of the Midwest.
Chris Woodward: People may not realize this, but one asset that we have as a news outlet is that the gentleman doing our news in the afternoon is actually a meteorologist as well. He's Dr. Robert Thornton.
Ed Vitagliano: I just have a B.A. in communication.
Tony Vitagliano: Student loan debt to prove it.
Chris Woodward: That's not what you're on the loan debt for.
Ed Vitagliano: A doctorate?
Chris Woodward: That's true.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, Chris, let's move to the news.
Chris Woodward: One of the things the government is doing is continuing to crack down on fraud. Vice President J.D. Vance was put in charge of a task force that's trying to find and recover money that people took from the federal government, meaning the taxpayers.
One of the big news stories yesterday afternoon that is still getting coverage today was an announcement from J.D. Vance that about 870,000 people were suspected of defrauding COVID-era programs. That story was reported from Kansas City, Missouri. He was joined by various people, including the new attorney general, Todd Blanche. He said, "If you take money from the American taxpayer, the federal government is now going to cut you off. You shouldn't be applying anymore. If you do apply, you're no longer able to get those benefits," referring to programs the government put in place.
Tony Vitagliano: I don't know what's happening to the money that the federal government is finding, but this is a good thing because everybody that's working and paying into taxes, we're getting ripped off, and have been for a long time.
Ed Vitagliano: It's 870,000 people. What was that number again?
Chris Woodward: 870,000 people.
Ed Vitagliano: Do we have an estimate on the amount of money that was technically stolen or defrauded?
Chris Woodward: It's definitely in the millions, if not far more. As it says here, these individuals are suspected of defrauding roughly $39 billion from pandemic-era programs.
Ed Vitagliano: Thirty-nine billion dollars.
Chris Woodward: You remember the PPP, the Paycheck Protection Program, that was created for small businesses? Even larger businesses could apply for it. There were other programs, too, that people could apply for. Apparently, these individuals were fraudulently collecting payments from those programs.
Tony Vitagliano: I think it's shocking that government programs would be mismanaged to the point where they're just handing out money without keeping up with where it's actually going.
Ed Vitagliano: So I'm guessing there's a consequence here.
Chris Woodward: Jail time, if they actually find you and can convict you in a court of law. This stuff goes back years.
Ed Vitagliano: This administration is a completely different administration now. Todd Blanche is a no-nonsense attorney general and has been ever since he became acting attorney general when President Trump and then-Attorney General Pam Bondi parted ways. He seems to be pretty serious about it.
This does go back years. We were doing stories during COVID about how people were applying for a loan and then going out and buying a sports car with it. One guy bought a very rare Pokémon card, and all of this was done at taxpayer expense while people were legitimately hurting under COVID policies.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm just going to say something, and folks, please don't misunderstand me. Stealing is wrong. Always. But if I'm going to steal money, I'm at least going to buy a house or a fancy car. I'm not buying a Pokémon card.
Ed Vitagliano: Criminals are rarely responsible.
Tony Vitagliano: It's like, "I'm doing this to pay off my debt. I follow the Dave Ramsey program. I'm actually using this money to pay off my debt."
Ed Vitagliano: Can you imagine? This guy is sitting in a cell, and the cell door opens. Another guy comes in and sits down. The guy asks, "What are you in for?"
Tony Vitagliano: "I used taxpayer money to buy a Pokémon card."
Ed Vitagliano: That guy's going to have a difficult time.
Tony Vitagliano: I am glad to hear that this administration is going after this fraud. This is just one of many examples that J.D. Vance has been able to present to the American people of this administration cutting down on fraudulent activity.
Ed Vitagliano: This doesn't need to stop. It needs to continue. What's sad is that both sides of the aisle ought to be applauding this.
Tony Vitagliano: Right. It's everybody's money.
Ed Vitagliano: Listen, we saw Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. I don't know, Chris, if I'm exaggerating this, but he was almost running interference for these groups that were supposedly creating learning centers or day care and other kinds of things for kids, while simply pilfering the treasury. I don't know why you don't see as many Democrats protesting this.
Chris Woodward: Unless they think it's a payoff to people who are voting for them. I think that is one factor, but the big picture here is Donald Trump. It's the Trump administration, and they don't want to give him credit for anything.
Just as he said in that first presidential address back in 2025, "I could be standing up here giving you the cure for cancer, and you would not stand and applaud." They just literally hate the man. That's basically what it boils down to.
Ed Vitagliano: That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about the fact that it is the Trump administration spearheading this, starting with DOGE and now continuing with the Justice Department. If the Trump administration is spearheading it, they can't applaud, even though under normal circumstances they might.
Chris Woodward: Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has also been speaking out against Republican-led efforts. Democrats have claimed that this is part of some sort of effort to make Democrats look bad, to be political and highlight the problems in blue states. But this is where a lot of this stuff is occurring. Would you rather have the federal government looking somewhere else, where it doesn't happen as much? It makes no sense.
Ed Vitagliano: All right. Frank is ready. Dr. Frank Turek is joining us. He's host of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, heard Saturdays at 9 a.m. Central Time and Sundays at 4 p.m. Central Time here on AFR. Frank, welcome to the program.
Frank Turek: Thanks, gentlemen. I just got back from the University of Georgia a few minutes ago. I was there last night, and the entire presentation, including about an hour and a half of questions and answers, is on our YouTube channel, the CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: There's always something a little peculiar about the address there that you make sure people know, right?
Frank Turek: It's CrossExamined with two words.
Ed Vitagliano: Two words.
Frank Turek: Two words. That YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Frank Turek: We had a lot of good questions last night about The War on Reality, which is the title of our new book. The main question we were addressing was whether it is right and fair to judge people based on their origin, their sex or their religion, or whether it is fair and right to judge people based on their behavior.
Everybody in the class said, "Behavior," yet many on the left are judging people by the category they're placed in. Are they white or black? Are they male or female? Are they a citizen or not? What religion are they? Are they straight or gay? They're judged by a category rather than by their individual behavior.
The Bible talks about judging people impartially by their behavior, not by their so-called status or identity group, but we've gotten away from that in this country lately.
Ed Vitagliano: We talked about this yesterday. I don't know if you heard about this, Frank. Under normal circumstances, this would just be hilarious because it sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit, but these people were serious. It involved women identifying themselves as non-practicing white people. Did you see this?
Frank Turek: No.
Ed Vitagliano: Do you have it? Can you play it?
Tony Vitagliano: We're looking for it.
Ed Vitagliano: This is a real thing that someone posted, and it went viral. We've got it. We're going to play it. Frank, you have to hear this, and I want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker: The whole doctor in the Lindsay Clancy trial was a Black man, and I'm not going to share any opinions because I'm not a person of color. I am a non-practicing white. I'm surprised. It changes the landscape of the conversation a little bit, and I think a lot of us were assuming that it was a white man.
I need to confess that this comment I laughed at was stolen. I totally saw "non-practicing white" in somebody else's comment section, and I loved it so much that I'm using it. I plan to make it part of my bio. Non-practicing white. Here I am.
Ed Vitagliano: There, a white woman said she was white and non-practicing, and now that is her identity: non-practicing white person.
Tony Vitagliano: I'm a thief.
Ed Vitagliano: The montage we had was actually longer than that. There were more people saying they wanted to identify as non-practicing white people. But this goes to your point and the point of your new book, The War on Reality. How do you actually think you are a non-practicing white person? The only way you can do that is if white is bad, the category itself.
Frank Turek: Yes. Really, they should call themselves non-thinking white people.
Ed Vitagliano: How about just non-thinking people?
Frank Turek: The Bible is so clear about this. Even Martin Luther King obviously had this right. Let's not judge people by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. We've gotten completely away from that.
Now we're going back to racism, allegedly to combat old racism.
Ed Vitagliano: That's what we need to do, Frank. We need to introduce new racism in order to fix old racism. That will fix everything.
Ed Vitagliano: We were stunned by that yesterday. We poked fun at these mostly white women who were claiming, and I think there was one guy who said it, although who am I to judge whether it was a guy or a girl?
Tony Vitagliano: You're a non-practicing white male.
Ed Vitagliano: I don't even know how to consider being a non-practicing white male. The whole thing is ludicrous, but these people were serious, Frank.
Let me ask you this. We asked our folks to pray for your event yesterday. We're going to give you a moment to tell us what else you have going on this week. But as you go from college campus to college campus, is this kind of thinking, maybe not that exact statement, but the thinking or non-thinking that produces it, so deeply rooted on our college campuses that you grow discouraged about the future of our country?
Frank Turek: It's rooted in many members of the faculty, not as much in the students. Last night I introduced this cultural Marxist binary, where you say certain people are oppressors and other people are oppressed.
According to this, anybody who is white, heterosexual, male, a citizen in the United States, someone who has some income and is a Christian, is automatically considered an oppressor, regardless of what your personal behavior is. You could have the character of Jesus, but if you have those qualities, you're automatically considered an oppressor.
People of color, people who are LGBTQ, non-Christians and noncitizens are considered oppressed, regardless of their behavior. They get bonus points if they're illegal immigrants.
I showed this last night, and you can see the whole presentation on the CrossExamined YouTube channel. I asked the 350 or so people there, mostly students, how many had seen this binary. Only about 10% had.
This is prevalent all over social media and the internet. We're now judging people based on the color of their skin, their gender, whether or not they're Christians, whether or not they're male, and whether or not they're citizens. It has nothing to do with personal behavior. It's completely mad.
Ed Vitagliano: For our last question or topic, we want you to interact with Frank. If you're just tuning in, the voice you're hearing is Dr. Frank Turek, host of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, heard Saturdays at 9 a.m. Central Time and Sundays at 4 p.m. Central Time here on AFR. Please check out his CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Chris, you had something about today in history, and we wanted to get Frank's take on it.
Chris Woodward: I like to look at today in history, specifically from Britannica. I think they do the best job of reporting things that happened on this day in history. On September 15th, way back in the day, 1835 to be exact, Charles Darwin visited the Galápagos Islands, which was instrumental in his theory of evolution.
What should we as believers and creationists do in response to what evolutionists are probably celebrating today?
Frank Turek: We need to look at what Darwin actually discovered. Do you know what he actually discovered? He discovered that the proportion of large-beaked finches to small-beaked finches changed with the weather.
If you had a dry season, the large-beaked finches tended to survive better because they had stronger beaks to get seeds out of harder ground. The smaller-beaked finches did better in wetter weather because they didn't necessarily need the stronger beaks.
All Darwin saw was a change in the population between large-beaked and small-beaked finches. What Darwin never could explain is the origin of finches themselves.
Natural selection will help you understand the survival of a species, but not the arrival of a species. Microevolution is true, meaning that when conditions change, those species that have certain characteristics that allow them to thrive in that environment will survive.
Ed Vitagliano: That makes sense. Species that don't have the right characteristics won't survive. Big deal. But it doesn't tell you where the species came from to begin with.
The idea that if you just add up these small microevolutionary changes, you're going to get a new kind of creature, has not been proven by the data. In fact, it's the opposite. Macroevolution has not been proved. There is so much evidence against macroevolution that even Darwinists are now admitting that the theory is bankrupt.
Let me ask you this for folks who are interested in what you just said. Do you cover this a lot on your YouTube channel?
Frank Turek: Oh, yeah. We especially cover the evolution material, and it is also covered in the new book, The War on Reality.
If people get The War on Reality, we're going to talk about beginnings, where the universe came from, where the first life came from and subsequent life forms. We cover all that in The War on Reality. It just came out a few days ago.
Ed Vitagliano: Let me ask you this one last thing, and then I want to give you a chance to let our listeners know where you're going next.
When you said that a lot of evolutionists, whether or not they are Christian, are having second thoughts about macroevolution, is that real, or is that just something creationists are saying?
Frank Turek: It's real. In fact, ten years ago, in 2016, the Royal Society in the United Kingdom, one of the most prestigious scientific affiliations in the world, held a conference to talk about the problems with Darwinian theory. Isaac Newton used to be a member of it.
They said they basically needed to find a new theory because the current theory didn't work. They didn't come up with a new theory, but they're admitting what the intelligent-design people have been saying for decades: the theory cannot explain where new life forms came from. It can't explain the new information needed in the genome to get a new body plan, and it can't explain the new parts of a body required to get a new body plan that DNA does not provide.
It's called epigenetic information. Without getting too technical, discoveries in recent decades have shown the complete bankruptcy of Darwinian theory. Even atheistic Darwinists are admitting this.
Ed Vitagliano: Frank, it's always great to hear from you. You just, as Tim would say, put the cookies on the bottom shelf for us folks who are not trained in these areas.
Let our listeners know where you're going to be in the next days or weeks. Do you want people to show up at the events, pray for you or what?
Frank Turek: All of the above would be great. I'm going to be at a church near Branson, Missouri, this weekend, then at a homeschool conference in Myrtle Beach next week. Following that, I'll be at Arizona State University on September 28th. I'm also speaking at a church in Tucson the day before that. It's all on our website, CrossExamined.org.
We'll be here this weekend with another edition of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. The complete John Lennox interview is going to be released tonight on our YouTube channel. We played excerpts from it on the American Family Radio Network last weekend, but the complete interview was too long to fit in the radio program.
If you want to see the entire John Lennox interview that I had with Dr. Lennox in Oxford a few weeks ago, it will be released tonight on the CrossExamined YouTube channel.
Ed Vitagliano: All right, Frank. Thanks. We appreciate it.
Frank Turek: God bless you guys. See you.
Ed Vitagliano: Folks, we're going to take a short break, and we'll be back with more of Today's Issues.
Don Wildmon: It's a fascinating world we live in. A humorous little incident happened down in Florida some time ago that brings this to mind.
A fellow who had not kept up with the modern world very much wanted to do a little traveling. He wanted to go from Chattahoochee, which is on the edge of the Eastern Time Zone, to Marianna, which is on the edge of the Central Time Zone.
When the fellow came down to the bus station at Chattahoochee to buy a ticket to Marianna, he walked up to the ticket window and asked, "What time is the next bus to Marianna?"
The reply came back, "Twelve o'clock."
"And what time does it get to Marianna?" asked the fellow.
The agent replied, "Twelve o'clock."
The fellow stepped back and thought for a moment. Then he stepped back up to the window.
"Boss," he said, "would you mind going through that one more time? I'm a-thinking I missed you somewhere. What time does that bus leave for Chattahoochee?"
"Twelve o'clock," said the agent.
"And what time does it get to Marianna?"
The agent could hardly keep from grinning. The fellow stepped back, scratched his head a little and looked at the agent. After a moment of silence, the agent spoke.
"Well, do you want to get a ticket?"
The fellow shook his head from side to side. "No, sir. But if you don't mind, I sure think I'd like to stick around for a while. I want to see that thing when it takes off."
Yes, for that fellow and for us, it's a fascinating world. Man's knowledge in the last ten years will double again in the next seven. We think nothing of men walking in space, on the moon, or a picture traveling through the air.
Science tells us that anything theoretically possible can be achieved. It's a fascinating world. But then why shouldn't it be? Do we think this old world was not made for greatness? Of course it was.
Man was not made to be a number. Man was made for greatness. We read that man was created in God's own image. You see, we're made by a great Creator and in the image of that Creator. That means that if He is great, then we too are made for greatness.
The trouble begins when we forget this. Although you may be only a number to our government, a customer to the phone company or a name on the class roll, that does not diminish your importance.
Despite the fact that there are millions of quarters in circulation, it does not make any quarter less valuable at face value. We make a terrible mistake when we sell ourselves short. Every one of us, in our own way, was made for greatness. Never, ever forget that.
Yes, it's a fascinating world. It's fascinating because it's a great world, and it's a great world because it has a great Creator. When you look at the thing in its fullness, you get the idea He planned it that way. In fact, He planned it that way because He loves us.
Ed Vitagliano: And welcome back. I'm Ed Vitagliano, sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week. I'm joined in the studio by Wesley Wildmon and Tony Vitagliano. Voice-wise, we're kind of the walking wounded. I'm battling bronchitis and coughing fits that come out of nowhere and can't be stopped.
Wesley lost his voice completely last night, but the Lord brought it back enough because you're doing a devotion at a local Christian school this morning. By the way, how did that go?
Wesley Wildmon: It went really well. Can I share a little bit about what we talked about?
Ed Vitagliano: Absolutely.
Wesley Wildmon: This morning we talked about thankfulness. We talked about how God gives common grace to everybody and how Satan will try to trick or deceive us into thinking that we need more and more, newer and newer, at the expense of enjoying the things we already have.
Getting stuff and acquiring things are not bad in and of themselves. They are amoral. They can be used for good or for evil. But Satan can use those things to get between us and God, even though God is the one who provides them. Then we begin to lose our appreciation for what God has given us.
I gave the students three things we had in common that we could be thankful for. Then I challenged them for a couple of minutes to get together and discuss things they were thankful for.
The three things we had in common were that we live in America, one of the greatest countries in the world, and that we have the First, Second and Fourth Amendments. The second thing we had in common was that the group of about 100 students was in a Christian school, so we could be thankful for Christian education.
The last thing I mentioned that we all had in common was that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins. Our sins have a consequence, and there is a cost to them. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and paid the penalty for them.
Those were things I brought up to get our minds thinking about how to be grateful. Then the students got together, and I called several of them up to the stage so they could share things they were thankful for.
At the end, after I had said "thankful" a hundred times, I had one of the kids on the front row, whom I could tell was really paying attention, so I knew I had the right one. I asked, "What is the message today?"
Ed Vitagliano: After fifteen minutes, it was the same word: thankful.
Wesley Wildmon: He said, "To be thankful."
Ed Vitagliano: It was a trick question, but I appreciate you asking about that.
Wesley Wildmon: That was this morning at a local Christian school where my kids go, and the devotion went really well.
Ed Vitagliano: It sounded great from what you described. A lot of people don't know that you spent a year in a discipleship program and have a heart for the world and for God. That's why you were the brainchild behind the Activate curriculum we have here, which ties together the Word of God and a Christian worldview and provides training for people who want to know how to better present those things.
Wesley Wildmon: It trains us in what the Bible says on the core issues of AFA and gives us tangible ways to live those out. That's what Activate does.
We've got some new things we're going to do with the already-produced curriculum in 2027. Maybe we'll talk about that another day, but we've got some really good creative ideas for how we're going to make the most use of that curriculum.
Ed Vitagliano: You mentioned 2027. Next year is the 50th anniversary of AFA.
Tony Vitagliano: We've got a bunch of things planned.
Wesley Wildmon: That's right, 2027.
Ed Vitagliano: For 2027, we're going to do cage-match fights. We're going to ask Karl to wrestle.
Tony Vitagliano: We're going to try to one-up the president of the United States and his administration.
Ed Vitagliano: One of our ladies here has agreed to go head-to-head in a cage match with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, all done in fun to raise money for AFA. We're very thrilled that AOC was willing to do that to pitch in.
Tony Vitagliano: Goodness.
Ed Vitagliano: Much like Trump says, this is the golden age of America.
Tony Vitagliano: That was a terrible impression.
Ed Vitagliano: You don't need a better one than me. I'm more of a Bernie Sanders guy. Anyway, fifty years next year would be the golden anniversary, the golden era, of the American Family Association.
Tony Vitagliano: I thought the 50th anniversary of our founding was still five years away.
Ed Vitagliano: I better start working on it and thinking about it now.
Chris Woodward: I want to bring up a story out of Massachusetts before we transition back to some other things in the news. Some Catholic parents are fighting in court to regain custody of their 17-year-old daughter and stop Massachusetts authorities from medically transitioning her with high-dose testosterone.
In December 2024, the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families removed the then-15-year-old from her home because her parents, Joseph and Arlene Catusco, would not recognize their daughter as a boy due to their faith and identity change, which they allege staff at Algonquin Regional High School initiated in secret.
There have been many stories about parents claiming that their taxpayer-funded schools are transitioning their children in secret without their parents' knowledge. This is the umpteenth example I've brought onto the show.
I have some audio from Joseph and Arlene talking to a Fox News podcast about this particular situation. Here's a portion of what they had to say.
Speaker: We have not been able to speak with her whatsoever since January of 2025, so I think it's been 19 or 20 months, something like that.
Interviewer: They won't let you talk to her, or she doesn't want to talk to you?
Speaker: I even begged them just to let me hug her or kiss her. They said they could not allow it.
Chris Woodward: I'll share the link to this podcast on our Today's Issues Facebook page. The reason I bring this up is because sometimes people in our audience, or people in general, might think, "I'm not Catholic," or "That's in Massachusetts, and I'm in Mississippi."
This is a story for people everywhere because this kind of thing is happening in school districts across the country. Don't get hung up on the faith group or the state where it is happening. You should care about this because it is happening everywhere.
Ed Vitagliano: Chris, one other thing I want to mention is that these points you're making are excellent. People should not be satisfied simply because the Trump administration has been heroic in its fight against this ideological madness.
There are blue cities, blue states, universities and colleges across the country that have ignored what the Trump administration has said, and they're playing a waiting game. These people are not going to quit trying to promote this ideological madness. They're waiting for someone else to get into office, just as the Biden administration promoted all of this for four years.
Folks, in addition to what Chris has said, don't rest on your laurels. This is a poison that has seeped into the bloodstream of this country, and in places and institutions that have a lot of influence, they're still pushing it.
This example is from Massachusetts. I'm not shocked. That's madness central in a lot of ways in this country.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony, let me ask you this. My hope is that when sanity returns, and some sanity is returning to our country regarding what we call this gender madness or lunacy, people who have promoted it, like the people at the school system, probably backed by the mental health profession in that state, will at some point go to prison. Some of them will at least be sued into oblivion.
I am certain that some of these people are going to wind up in hell if they don't repent over what they have done. God's justice may seem slow in coming sometimes, but it is sure. Jesus Himself said that if you harm young people or children, it would be better for you never to have been born when God gets His hands on you.
Tony, for people like you and Wesley who have kids, or in my case, who are grandparents, this is especially heinous. There were times when you and your sister were growing up when I had a hard time sleeping because I worked here. I knew what was going on in terms of the promotion of homosexuality in schools.
It made it hard to sleep sometimes because these dark forces are out there, scheming to get their hands on kids. Now it has gotten to the point where they want to transition kids and make irrevocable changes to their bodies without the parents having a say in it. How do you deal with that kind of darkness lurking out there?
Tony Vitagliano: I think you devote yourself to the Word of God and to prayer, first and foremost, and spiritually fortify yourself and your household.
I understand that we sometimes jump to the conclusion that everyone can afford to homeschool, or that everyone can afford to send their kids to a private Christian school or a less liberal private secular school. The reality is that things are hard right now, and a lot of people simply don't have that option.
The encouragement I would give parents is to fortify their kids while they're at home with whatever time they have with them at the end of the day, on days off and on weekends. Spend time pouring into them. Ask them questions and keep the lines of communication open.
Don't make them feel like any topic or question is off limits because they're being exposed to these things one way or another in public schools, especially at certain ages. The age of exposure to these issues is dropping, but our children are being exposed to them.
It's our job as parents and grandparents. I also want to encourage grandparents to do the same thing: talk with their children and grandchildren and reinforce a biblical Christian worldview on these sensitive, lightning-rod topics.
The second encouragement I would give is to take the steps necessary if you see this happening in your community or state. That means voting out anybody who is pushing this. You've got to clean house. You cannot give way to these ideas or ideologies, because you see what happens in Massachusetts.
They've been going down this road for a long time and have always been proud of the progressivism they're pushing. This is the end result of that mentality, of the state thinking that the state is their god.
If the state is God, then the state owns your children too. The state can do whatever it wants. It can take your children from you.
These types of stories get me fired up because nobody is taking my kids from me. I feel so bad for these parents who are fighting to get their child back before irreparable damage is done. There's no telling what's already been done. I'll be praying for these parents.
That's my soapbox. I want to encourage you that if you see this happening in your area, eventually it's going to come if we keep going this way, the Lord tarries and we don't get revival. It's coming to your community at some point. Ten years down the road or ten months down the road, you're going to have a story like this in your town.
Chris Woodward: You talked about how people have to be politically aware and active. Debbie Wuthnow, with iVoterGuide, has talked about this. We've done stories about it, but she's talked about the importance of voting down ballot.
Today's school board candidate is tomorrow's state representative or United States congressman. If you don't stop these people where they are right now, it's going to spread.
Also, don't take your state for granted. We live in what's called the Bible Belt, and a lot of people think, "That will never happen here." Massachusetts has a history of being a faith-based government. Harvard was a seminary at one point, one of the oldest in America. Here we are talking today about how liberal they are.
Don't think, "I live in Mississippi. It will never happen here." It will, if you don't do something.
Tony Vitagliano: There are Christian law firms that can help. A lot of them are pro bono, so that's another option to defend your God-given rights as a parent.
Chris, you mentioned iVoterGuide, and we do encourage people to use it. iVoterGuide is the largest database that you can access in our country, and it goes down ballot in a lot of states. It may be different for your state than for others, but there's only one way to find out how far down it goes.
Go to iVoterGuide.com. It is a division of AFA Action, our government-affairs arm. Type in your physical address, not a P.O. box, and you can view your voter guide and see who represents you. A lot of people don't know who their representatives are in their state.
You can find that information at iVoterGuide.com.
Wesley Wildmon: I'll just add this to what Tony was saying. Generally speaking, the Christian worldview and the understanding of what God expects from us as Christians is, for the most part, very simple to understand. But living the Christian life is far more difficult than people make it out to be.
Knowing what is right is not always easy because more times than not, you're going against the grain or against the pressures around you. That's why you see over and over again in the Bible, and in personal testimony, examples of people holding the line or standing in the gap. Over time, other people get on board and realize that even if they were timid at the time, they can respond with courage.
Being a courageous Christian has an effect on people, even though perseverance takes time. Remember that as a Christian throughout your daily life. It isn't easy, but it is very rewarding in the end. We're called to be a good example of Christ in other people's lives.
Ed Vitagliano: Amen.
Tony Vitagliano: Amen.
Ed Vitagliano: Good discussion. All right, Chris, what's next?
Chris Woodward: Let's talk for a moment about energy prices. The president asked Ukraine to stop attacking energy infrastructure in Russia because, according to the president, Ukraine's attacks on Russian diesel facilities in particular have caused problems with the diesel shortage and driven up prices in the last couple of years.
Yesterday afternoon, after Stephen and I swapped out and the show ended, the president announced that Ukraine and Russia had agreed to no longer attack one another's energy infrastructure because blowing things up is impacting everybody.
If you haven't looked at the price of diesel, it's above six dollars a gallon now as a national average. That is a record in the United States of America, and it impacts everybody. Even if you drive a Prius or something that is fully electric, you still pay for high diesel prices when you buy something from a store.
We need to find ways as a world to bring down prices by introducing more supply. That's not something we can do today to fix tomorrow, but it is something the administration needs to focus on.
I'm in the middle of trying to get some energy groups to talk to AFN about this situation. Even if you're not a diesel customer, you're still paying high prices at the pump. I've seen places here in Tupelo above four dollars a gallon now.
Tony Vitagliano: We're usually a little lower than the national average.
Chris Woodward: It's not just truckers. They run on diesel and ship products, and they pay more at the pump for diesel. That's going to raise the price of items at the grocery store.
This is also affecting farmers who use diesel tractors. They have to pass those costs along to customers or to the store. There are a lot of things driving prices up.
I understand what the president is doing. If he can do anything to bring some restraint to the war between Russia and Ukraine, that's a win. But fuel prices, both diesel and gasoline, were affected a little at the start of the Russia-Ukraine war. Most of the increase we've seen over the last year has been part of the aftermath of the Iranian war.
It doesn't help for distribution centers, refineries or anything like that in Russia or Ukraine to be hit. I'm glad the president is trying to urge restraint because the spillover effect on the rest of the world is part of the problem we're all dealing with.
The administration and its allies in Congress, Republicans, have talked about how policies they put in place since Americans elected them after the 2024 election have paid off for the American people. Democrats want people to vote them back into control of the House and Senate, but Senate Majority Leader John Thune says the GOP's economic achievements will help carry them across the finish line.
John Thune: We made the increased standard deduction permanent. We made the lower tax rates permanent, and we made the increased child tax credit permanent. In other words, more money in American families' pockets permanently.
Chris Woodward: A lot of that extra money somebody might be bringing home, or that they got from the IRS in April, has probably gone to the cost of gasoline and their electricity bill. But it is factually accurate to say that Republicans and President Trump approved measures that have allowed Americans to have more money in their pockets.
Ed Vitagliano: Tony, my first reaction to that clip is, "LOL." I don't want to be cynical because all those things Senator Thune mentioned are true and they are good things. I want them to press in and do more.
But when I say "LOL," I'm being a wise guy. The problem for Senator Thune, the rest of the Republicans and the Trump administration is that the sticker shock at the pump and at the grocery store is what sticks in people's minds. When they get the receipt and have to pay, they ask, "I have to pay how much for this?"
Wesley Wildmon: Those kitchen-table economics always seem to drive voting a lot more than things that are true but a little more abstract when people are balancing their checklist.
Tony Vitagliano: I do want to commend Senator Thune. Those are good and helpful policies that will help the average American worker and family, so I'm not going to take away from that.
But the fact of the matter is that inflation is an invisible tax on the American population, and it has been running amok for a very long time. Any benefit on the back end from tax breaks or permanent tax credits is great for everybody when tax season comes around. You might say, "We're getting some money back," or "We don't owe as much because of the tax breaks."
But if you spend a week doing your taxes, for the other 51 weeks of the year you're seeing your savings and wages eaten away by inflation. That is what really has to be addressed.
You mentioned kitchen-table economics. That's exactly what has to be addressed. Until we can find a way to curb inflation, I don't know if it is going to matter to the American people what tax benefits they're getting if every day or every paycheck they're seeing more and more of their money go to everyday commodities and gasoline.
That's going to be a hard sell. Again, I said it yesterday: Go out and vote. Make sure you go out and vote. I'm not trying to depress the vote or depress anybody. We still need to get out and vote. You wouldn't get these tax breaks under a Democratic administration, but it's the reality we're working in right now.
Ed Vitagliano: Good comments. All right, folks, we're going to take a break for news. You're listening to Today's Issues.
Ed Vitetaliano fills in for Tim Wildmon with Wesley Wildmon and Tony Vitetaliano as they discuss a Massachusetts case involving parents fighting to regain custody of their teenage daughter after authorities removed her from their home. The hosts examine parental rights, school secrecy, medical transition, and the need for Christians to remain engaged in local and state politics. Dr. Frank Turek, host of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, discusses his new book The War on Reality, identity-based judgments, cultural Marxism, and the distinction between natural selection and the origin of life. He also explains why he believes Darwinian evolution cannot account for new life forms. The program also covers the Trump administration’s investigation into alleged COVID-era fraud, including roughly 870,000 people suspected of defrauding pandemic programs, as well as rising diesel and gasoline prices, inflation, and Republican tax policies.
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