Transcript

AFA at Home will address the LGBTQ issue in a forthcoming video

Walker Wildmon: Hey everybody, Walker Wildmon here. I'm going to be hosting episode 5 of AFA at Home here briefly. We're going to jump right to it here in just a few minutes and we're going to be addressing the LGBTQ issue without hesitation or apology. That's what we're going to be discussing on this video coming up. Shortly before we jump to the video though, I want to let you know about two important projects that we've been working on in recent years. The first one is AFA Activate. It's a Biblical worldview training curriculum book, both online and with a physical workbook. Stay tuned for that video. We're gonna tell you more about that project. Also, AFA Stream, that's where you're watching this video now. But we don't just have this episode of AFA At Home available on AFA Stream. We have so much other great content, documentaries, church curriculum and past events all available in video form here on this stream platform. So stay tuned. Check it out when you get done with episode five and we hope you enjoy this installment of AFA at Home.

Walker Wildmon: Welcome to AFA at Home. This is episode five. We're going to be discussing the issue of human sexuality, otherwise known as the LGBTQ issue, and how it intersects with our faith and how we can address it as Christians in American culture and in the church. All of this we're going to hit on today. We're going to do so from a biblical perspective. We're also going to hit at it with boldness and truth and just a full out, truthful approach is what we're going to do today, which is not what you get elsewhere. so we're going to try to hit that from this perspective today.

Walker Wildman: American Family Association started in response to 1960s sexual revolution

Walker Wildmon here. I'll be your host, your MC for today. my dad, AFA President Tim Wildmon, Ed Vitagliano, Abraham Hamilton III, MD. Perkins and Fred Jackson, all AFA personalities. AFR host or co host here on the program. So glad to have you with us. jumping straight into this dad, Paw Paw, our late founder Don Wildmon. Your dad, my grandfather, got his start with the National Federation for Decency, speaking out against sex and violence on television. but what we're experiencing today is a whole new front.

Tim Wildmon: Yeah, now what he, my dad, started this ministry which was originally known as National Federation for Decency, later called the. And today known as the American Family Association. sort of at the end of the sexual revolution, is what it was called sexual revolution. By decades, I think would be defined as more 60s and 70s. And that was when a large segment of the American public, in pop culture, Hollywood entertainment, began to openly reject the Christian, view of human sexuality in terms of what was right and what was wrong, what was acceptable and unacceptable. Back in the, Not to go too far back in this, but back in the, you know, 40s and even 50s and probably early part of the 60s, certainly there wasn't explicit sex in movies and television and so forth. But even you know, you used to have Lucy and Desi in separate beds, you know, and I Love Lucy. So the whole culture was different. It was more or less respectful of the Christian worldview in terms of human sexuality and morals and values that began to change. Seventies just exploded. And my dad started this ministry in part in response to the permissiveness that was starting to go on and be accepted. And it was basically a rebellion against the Judeo Christian view of man and sexuality. You know, one man, one woman for life, which was the standard, was just mocked and ridiculed. And so that's. You're right. So afa, formerly nfd, was started in part in response to that, the sexual revolution.

Walker Wildmon: Ed, the issue of human sexuality, within the church, but not just within the Christian church, but even within cultures, you know, going back, thousands of years and then, 2,000 years since the church and the NewSong Testament and Jesus teachings, and the writings of the apostles, the issue of the topic of man m, woman marriage, really hasn't been up for debate as to what God's word says about it, up until, you know, the last 40, 50 years. So, how did we shift so quickly from this being an understood fundamental within the, within the body of Christ to now even amongst Christians, being heavily debated?

Ed Vitagliano: Well, even in pagan cultures, and by that I mean cultures that existed before Christianity became more widely accepted, even pagan cultures understood that while they might have been permissive, towards adulterous relationships or homosexuality, understood that man, woman marriage was critical to the longevity of their culture, their society. Because if you are a warring tribe or a warring culture, you had to have young men. And so, so they almost universally understood that marriage, was necessary. And before the invention of the birth control pill, which kind of changed that, reality, everyone understood that children came from the sexual coupling of one man and one woman. That was it. And that's frankly, that's why historically speaking, I'm not even just talking about the Bible right now. Historically speaking, that's why whether it was a tribe or a village or a nation or an empire, there were government kind of regulations, if you were, if you put it that way about marriage, because that was the key component to social prosperity. You wanted, parents to have children and children to grow up and to be productive citizens. And, and the parents needed to ensure that the values and the beliefs were passed along. So you might allow in Greece, ancient Greece or Rome for there to be homosexual, liaisons on the side. But you had to preserve marriage. now some of that changed and it changed in dramatic fashion with the invention of the birth control pill. Because that was kind of the invention of something that allowed sex outside of that marriage relationship to exist without the danger of pregnancy. And that's. You wanted pregnancies to exist in a mom and dad environment so you could raise the kids. So, there's a lot that could be said about the kind of the invention of the word homosexuality. And I'm sure we'll get to that. and the concept of sexual orientation or sexual identity, all that's really since the late 1800s. But the birth control pill, I would say really was a game changer in fracturing that model that even Pagan civilizations, held to, the Bible, of course, Old Testament, NewSong Testament, promoted the original design on the part of our creator.

Walker Wildmon: Yeah. And marriage. Go ahead.

M.D. Perkins: MD well, if you want to put a specific date on it, you can say 1955 was the date in which the first real question mark in terms of what did the Bible teach was brought up. And this was in England. A, Church of England ethicist named Derek Sherwin Bailey wrote a book called Homosexuality in the Western Christian Tradition. And this was the first book that really challenged the historic Christian view on the topic. And I think it's worth noting that he didn't challenge it merely as an observation. He challenged it within the context of parliament starting to question sodomy laws and whether they should repeal those. And so then this ethicist, ah, comes in because he has to get by the church, which is this barrier to this broader acceptance, and then writes this book that then has this impact that then will be cited in study committee reports and things that are happening in the mainline denominations in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Ed Vitagliano: And Alfred Kinsey, once you, talk just for a few moments, Alfred Kinsey's two books, in 1948 and 1950, something where he, from a so called scientific perspective, promoted the idea of, tried to shatter the idea of a Christian view of marriage and human sexuality and began the process of, I don't know if it was him or not, but began the process of trying to question sodomy laws. So you had in England and then here in the United States, supposedly based on the scientific studies of Alfred Kinsey, we don't need to stick with Christianity anymore. It's not scientific.

M.D. Perkins: Right? Well, because he was a biologist and so he was evolutionary in its mindset and so these were just human animals acting the way that animals behave. And so you couldn't put, you couldn't put a moral judgment on it. And so he was just saying that he was merely observing. This is just a phenomenon of sexuality. And so you had homosexuality over here, bestiality, pedophilia, of course, you know, adultery and all these other forms of things that were taking place that he was highlighting in his book. But that was really a major catalyst toward normalizing, and opening the door to the sexual revolution that Tim was talking about. So you have all of these different precursors that happen in history. What point in time are you going to highlight? There's always something a little bit prior to that that is kind of opening the door and moving things down the line.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is notorious for creating the hate group against homosexuality

Walker Wildmon: Yeah, this is a fascinating discussion, and I want to talk about how, people who believe in a biblical ethic and a biblical view of human sexuality, one man, one woman, marriage, how they've been treated now. And we shifted from, raising questions to open demonization of people of faith, Christians. and I want to get dad and Fred's input on this. the Southern Poverty Law center is probably the most notorious for creating the hate group, listing and air quotes of basically a list, of groups and entities that believe in the Bible and believe in God's design for human sakes. And how that's really served, dad, as a form of intimidation for anyone to speak out on this issue.

Tim Wildmon: Yeah, because my blood pressure is going up right now because you mentioned the Southern Poverty Law Center. I'm gonna defer to Fred. What is your question for Fred?

Walker Wildmon: Ah, well, how this has shifted from raising a question, a, fringe question that's never been brought up before, or at least now has not been mainstream, to now if you believe in what was once the norm, you're somehow a hater and a bigot.

Fred Jackson: The transition didn't happen overnight. I think the success, I'll call it, of the Southern Poverty Law center to be cited by government agencies and that sort of thing. What had to happen first was the creation of a fertile ground to accept the claims of the Southern Poverty Law Center. And I go back to the education system every time, where eventually, over time, it was in vogue in classrooms, particularly in universities, to say, one of the big problems in the United States of America, we have this intolerant view of what is right and wrong. So you have professors, you have teachers in front of minds. you're in university. Okay, I want to learn from this very learned individual. So they start to question what they have been taught in their churches and in their homes. And it is framed as a restriction against your personal freedoms. And so all of a sudden, and it goes back to the Garden of Eden, really, the tactics that Satan used. well, God doesn't want you to partake in that tree because he's holding back from you. And so, you know, these teachers, these professors use the same thinking that Satan used, that there's something better for you, but you got to get rid of those restrictions, those awful Christian, biblically based restrictions. And so it took a couple of decades, but, you know, the left doesn't mind how long it takes, as long as they reach their goal to tear down the idea of there are black and whites out there. Truth and falsehood. And, so that happens over 20, 30 years. Now you've got a whole crop of young people in front of you, young men and women. Southern Poverty Law center comes along and says, yeah, they're a hate group, basically, because they disagree with you having freedoms. And so obviously, that's accepted because our education system now has journalists that m. Believe this now has, lawyers, judges, people in the entertainment world. And you have this convergence of thought from those very powerful entities. And so people now start to believe. So Southern Poverty Law center comes along and says, this group's a hate group because they stand against homosexuality.

Walker Wildmon: And, dad, it's been strategically used in the media, in conjunction the SPLC with the media. For example, you take an interview from CNN or MSNBC talking about the issue of marriage. You're going to spend the first three minutes talking about why you're not a hate group and why you simply believe in God's design for marriage because you want what's in the best interest of everybody, so that it really works against us.

Tim Wildmon: Well, left wing media has, and I include Hollywood and the news media and the educational system, they're very, very shrewd in how they frame this, whole debate. Because if you are, if you are critical in any way of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender LGBTQ queer, then, but you're by definition, if you don't affirm them, you're by definition, you hate them. There's no love to sin or hate the sin. You know, I've said before, and I wasn't the one who came up with this, but just because you are critical of an alcoholic doesn't mean you hate the person. You know, you just want to. You're critical of their behavior. And the LGBTQ movement, which birthed out of the sexual revolution, has destroyed millions of lives. And because of Christians pointing out that it's sin, in fact, the Bible is clear for those who would listen, that you follow that path of, rejecting, practicing sexual immorality, you will suffer the consequences. Sometimes, sadly, it's death. You look at the hiv, virus. Why is that? Sexual promiscuity, Human, papillona. Is that how we. That makes people infertile? Why is that? You're violating God's laws. As far as human sexuality goes, abortion, that's an untold story right there. The, media wants you to believe abortion is wonderful. It's controlling your body. They don't tell you the story of all the women and girls who cry at night years after they've had abortions because their soul's tortured because what they did was wrong. Well, that was in response to this idea of, free sex, you know, which the culture teaches. And all of it is just. Abe, you can respond to this too. All of it is. And the Bible talks about this and teaches about this. All of this, is broadly and generally is, Western society, which is basically based on Christian values and Christianity rejecting it and saying, God, we don't want your rules. We don't want your regulations. We don't want you telling us how to live. We'll live how we want to, and you can go get lost. Basically. It's what they've said here.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, you said so many things, Several things. not only has the rejection of God's standard of sexuality destroyed countless lives in the here and now, it's damn countless souls as well. You know, one of the major reasons why, organizations like ours exist. Brother Dom founded and continue on today, is to warn people about the temporal consequences as well as the eternal consequences. You know, and it is not our idea. We didn't come up with it. We didn't make it up. And we have in many ways, the blessings of liberty that we enjoy in our nation. we've misconstrued them with a sinful autonomy, you know, which is distinct. but there is no experiment in individual liberty. This rare occurrence that is United States of America without Christianity. You know, it is the underpinning. But as we've enjoyed that, we've twisted it into, Morphed it into something that's dangerous for us temporally and eternally. You mentioned, as well, Ed, about Kinsey and others and the reality of homosexuality. And Tim, you added, that if we don't affirm we're considered hateful and they're not talking about hate Biblically. It is a perversion and a twisting of the word hate, really, to use it as a social cudgel, you know, to try to get those of us who would speak out. The only ones in our civilization left that would speak out will be Christians, will be the church. And they want to use language that's torn from the scripture, but not to communicate what the scripture means. And so, we are endeavoring to communicate the truth about this, to warn about the temporal consequences as well as the eternal consequences, which is eternal damnation, separation from God for eternity.

Walker Wildmon: Yeah, and we have, countless resources on this. We'll maybe link to some of them or put them up on the screen. But, MD has written extensively on this within the church. we produced in his image documentary, which actually tells stories of redemption. People who struggled with these issues, and God redeemed them, he restored them, and we tell their testimonies and how he can do that for you too.

Myth that Jesus never spoke about homosexuality is a lie

but, Abe, I want you to touch on this myth that Jesus never spoke about homosexuality because that percolates the church sometimes. But we have to address that, myth and talk about how the Bible talks extensively on the issue of homosexuality.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, I mean, it's just a lie. You know, anybody who would say that is either ignorant biblically or they're malevolent. You know, that's evil to say that that myth is perpetrated. First of all, with the fundamental misunderstanding that the Old Testament is separate from the NewSong Testament. The reality is Genesis revelation is the words of Jesus. The, apostle John records in John chapter 1 that Jesus is the word made flesh, who is there at the beginning. Before there is a beginning, Jesus is there. So Genesis through Malachi, Matthew through Revelation is all the words of Jesus. But then, more specifically, when Jesus is asked about marriage, the, incarnate Messiah is asked about marriage, recorded in Matthew chapter 19. He specifically cites Genesis 1. Have you not read? He made them both male and female. That's a specific citation to Genesis chapter 1, verses 26 and 20, 28. Then he says, and for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined unto his wife. And the two shall become one flesh with a portion of the spirit, in the union. And when God is joined together, let not man put asunder. When he says, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined unto his wife. That's specifically quotation from Genesis chapter 2. So if Jesus, when asked about marriage, quotes from Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, we're on good ground in doing so. And when he makes that quotation, he's affirming what marriage is to the exclusion of all counterfeits and all derivatives. He's saying, this is marriage. One man for this cause shall a male. The Greek word there is literally means a male. A man shall leave his father must be joined to his wife. The Greek word there is gune. The root word lends itself to the, root for a particular medical discipline that requires certain equipment in order to participate in. It's clear that it's one man and one woman. And so when Jesus affirms that reality, he's affirming it to the exclusion of all other counterfeits. And that's specifically what Jesus is Talking about. So to say that he never addressed it is just, just not true.

Walker Wildmon: Amen.

 There is a disconnect between human sexuality and procreation

Fred, I want to talk about the disconnect between procreation, which is a fundamental aspect of humanity and how we're all sitting here. Right. that disconnect between and Ed touched on this some, but the practical reality of needing to procreate to maintain humankind, that disconnect between human sexuality and procreation, because the issue of human sexuality has really morphed into this. You mentioned the creation of the birth control pill, and other means, other modern technologies. It's really, Fred, in some regards created this separation between human sexual intercourse and procreation. As if maybe you can pick one and you don't have to have the other or vice versa. but that's not how God set it up.

Fred Jackson: You know, God created us with a sexual desire, but as Abe was just talking about, but within the confines of marriage, what has happened is that, the crowd that does not accept the authority of scripture has taken that. And what they've elevated is a pleasure, above what God intended.

Tim Wildmon: It's called hedonism.

Fred Jackson: Yes, exactly. And then they take it to the next level. If you deny me that, then you

Tim Wildmon: are on top of my body. Yes, exactly. Have we all heard this one?

Fred Jackson: Yes, you are.

Abraham Hamilton III: Prostitution is illegal. You can't do certain things.

Tim Wildmon: Don't tell me how to live. You crazy Christians can't do certain things.

Abraham Hamilton III: I'm sorry to interrupt you, Brad, but it's just absurd.

Fred Jackson: But once you unhook yourself from the authority of scripture, then anything goes. there is a major Protestant denomination, that is in the throes of considering basically throwing that out

Tim Wildmon: of their

Fred Jackson: book of rules, as they call it. what gets a denomination to that point? It is, well, my desire trumps what God's word says. Or they try to bring in the thinking that, well, you know, God can change his mind. And this is the way the so called progressives, and Abe doesn't like that word, progressives, I don't like it either.

Tim Wildmon: What they call hm themselves, that's what they call themselves.

Fred Jackson: But they get to thinking, we shall be as gods, we will decide what is right and wrong. But it has reached a point now where their sinful lusts are being put into laws to outlaw people. I gather around this table from saying that's wrong. you've just offended somebody. We're going to take you to court over that. Just stop and think what has happened in the last 10 or 15 years that we have jumped from that point of, you know, the tolerant crowd is the least tolerant there can be out there. And we are seeing that today.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. And the scripture warned this would happen 2 Timothy 3 in the last days. Perilous times would come, men would not be lovers of God. They will be lovers of, pleasure.

Fred Jackson: Yes.

Abraham Hamilton III: You know, and God is such a good God that he creates us, and gives us instructions and then creates an environment to incentivize our obedience to his instructions. The first command recorded in scripture is written in a familial context. Unsurprisingly, you have to do exactly what you're talking about, Walker. Be fruitful, multiply, replenish the earth and subdue it. Right. God made our bodies where it requires fuel, but he's blessed, us that we have taste buds, that as we fuel our bodies we get to enjoy certain aspects distinguishing ice cream from steak, for example. You know, if anybody's from Peter, don't get upset, get mad at me. Send all your comments, Tim Wilde. You have that wherewithal, you know. And the Lord commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, but he's given us incentives to where it is an enjoyable process. But he didn't do so so that we begin to worship the process and exclude his purpose from the process. And that is what's happening. We're celebrating and elevating the process. And then you're a hater. If you would deny me. Like you just said, these, this hedonistic pursuit that's detached from God's pleasure, God's purpose for that pursuit, you know, and like you mentioned, the birth control pill is one of the things that allow that to happen. God has made us as human beings, has given us these drives that are potent for his glory. It's one of the major things that causes a man to now take upon himself the responsibility of being a house band, a shepherd for a family, and living for the protection, the provision and the preservation of people beyond himself. You know, it takes a woman and causes her to go through the physical process, Recognize I have a body and that's someone inside my body. It changes us from being individuals to being foundations for community. It drives us toward selflessness, which is a characteristic of maturation as human beings. But what we're having, not surprisingly, an arresting of development, A, self absorbed society. You know, the most popular picture nowadays is what, the selfie.

Fred Jackson: Yeah.

Abraham Hamilton III: You know, to where my pursuits, my goals, my objectives is the zenith in the pinnacle of existence. And anybody else who would deny that will Literally trample over you, if not kill you, in order to pursue that. When we talk about abortion, murdering the

Ed Vitagliano: unborn, well, and it's interesting, there's two sides to the coin. So, as you, wonderfully described, Abe, God points, us in the right direction as to the fulfillment of human sexuality by making it pleasurable. Just like eating. We have taste buds. there's also the flip side of that. In Romans 1, it talks about receiving the due penalty in your body for pursuing unnatural, affections. But it's not just homosexuality. It's heterosexual sin as well. when I was growing up, it's a long time ago. but in health class in high school, they warned us about two sexually transmitted diseases, or nowadays sexually transmitted infections. there was, gonorrhea and syphilis. That was it. Now there are over 30 STDs. And you say, well, how did that happen? Well, just as God points us in the right direction and blesses us with, the ability and the capacity to have pleasure, he also tries to warn us through the biological consequences of disobedience. And so you. How do we go from two STDs to 30? Well, it's because the abuse of the human body and the abuse of human sexuality basically turns human bodies into. It's kind of a gross way of looking at it into biological sinks. And so, bacterial infections and viruses then begin to invade and, corrode the beauty of human sexuality. and so there's two sides of that coin. There's the blessing of pleasure, but then the warning, of the physical consequences that result from disobedience.

Walker: We cannot surrender on this issue. The Bible is clear. Homosexual behavior is sinful

Tim Wildmon: you know, related to this whole topic, I was trying to think of what, for those watching us at home who are supporters of American Family association, what we can do. Because, the entertainment industry in particular is almost a lost cause. I mean, these people, I'm talking Hollywood, I'm talking movies, tv, music, much of it is just, well, they're hell bent on going to hell. I mean, I don't know how else to say it. And leading as many people as they can down that path in terms of human sexuality because they don't believe in any moral standards at all. And if you suggest any, then you're a bigot and you're a judgmental person. Even though that's my favorite Bible verse to those who don't believe in the Bible is, thou shalt not judge, lest you be judged. They know that verse by heart. Even though they don't believe in any of the other scriptures. but. So that's a very difficult thing. We are doing what we can at AFA to promote good entertainment. We create some of our own. We send people to things that we think they can trust in terms of what their children are able to watch and see. Because it does shape the way we, especially young, impressionable people, the way they think about the world is what they see oftentimes on TV or on the computer screen or what they hear in their music or who their idols are. but what you can do is we have to be diligent as a parent, Walker. You're a parent of young children now, Abe. And, you have to be diligent about what your kids are exposed to and while all the while enforcing God's, you know, age appropriate, God's standard to them about, you know, human sexual behavior. And you also need to go to a church that reinforces what the Bible says and what you teach. Can't be any vacillating on that. That's no negotiating on that. Okay. I know some churches, ah, they're priding, excuse the double entendre there. Priding themselves on being, seeker friendly. And, you know, I know Andy Stanley in Atlanta. He's very well known for this view. He says, he will allow active homosexuals to be greeters at his church. No, no, that kind of thing is the first step or the second step toward compromising on the issue itself. The Bible is clear. I'm going to preach now, Preach preachers everywhere, and I'm going to take the pulpit right now. Listen, because this is so important. We cannot surrender on this issue. And it's very easy to do because, it's very easy to find yourself compromising in your mind. Oh, maybe I should here or there. No, we can't. Homosexual behavior is sinful. Romans, Chapter 1 and other Bible verses. It's against the word of God and against God's. So is transgenderism. That's warped. Okay? People who. A man who dresses like a woman, calls himself a woman, has a mental disorder, to say the least. Any deep spiritual problem. I don't care if they're on Fox News or not. Okay? So. But we have to continue to hold up. This is my point of saying this. We have to continue to hold up the biblical standard, of morality when it comes to human sexuality. And also, one other place we can make a difference is if your children go whatever school they go to, hopefully your kids are not exposed to, the kind of radical teaching we're Seeing at, schools and college colleges, certainly elementary schools, where they push an lgbt, you know, in textbooks or the third grade teachers teaching them something that the parents don't even know about. We see stories about this every day in the news. Well, in Florida and in other places. Be. Remember in Florida, they said the legislature there and Governor, DeSantis said, you know, you're not going to teach sex to our kids third grade and under. And I think they raised that since then. But third grade and under. This is what the whole controversy was about. we're not. You're not going to teach, Florida said, State of Florida said, we're not doing it. We're not teaching kids about sex or talking about sex to third graders and under. And because Governor DeSantis and the Florida legislature did that, then the whole mainstream media went after him. Don't say gay. He's saying, don't say gay. Remember this? Don't say gay. It was an unfair characterization of it, but it was intentionally done to bring the world down on Florida's head, so to speak. Governor DeSantis, thank goodness he didn't back down on this, nor did the legislature. and then Disney, Disney came out on the wrong side, as they've been doing for 20 years now. LGBT, they're promoting the LGBT movement. So I'm just saying that it's everywhere. We're counterculture now. Where we used to be culture, we're now counterculture. And we have to, be prepared for, you know, if you fight back against this, you are going to be attacked.

Ed: The hostility toward children is a downstream consequence of rejecting God

One other thing in closing, on a sermon here, in closing, related to this, what y' all were talking about early in terms of marriage and human sexuality being, for the purpose of procreation. Right? Not all together, but, people don't get pregnant every time they engage in sexuality or human sex. But, that is a primary reason God gave us that is to procreate. Right? But if you look at where this is being rejected, teaching is being rejected around the world. They are suffering from lack, of people. This is true. And you look at Japan, you look in 50 years, we're not going to have any Japanese because they're not having kids over there at all. Hardly. why is that? That's because they've disengaged human sexuality. Japan was never a Christian nation to begin with, but they at least had a, ah, traditional view of man, woman, marriage, family, and they revered that. So that's, you look at Western Europe, I don't know about Eastern Europe, Western Europe, the birth rate plummeted here, in the US it's going down. Canada going down. So we're not even having replacement levels anymore.

Walker Wildmon: That's right.

Tim Wildmon: Well, why is that? Because people said sex, has nothing to do with marriage. With marriage. And it has nothing to do really with having children. We're going to separate the two. We're going to have abortion as birth control. We're going to have birth control pills and you know, so we're not going to have to have children, but we can still have the sex part of it. And that's just, completely, you know, shaking your fist at God.

Abraham Hamilton III: So anyway, can I say one thing to that point? I mean, the hostility toward children is a downstream consequence of rejecting God. Because what does the word of God say about children? Children are a blessing. But our society is saying children are a burden, you know, and I'm grateful for you bringing up the point, Ed, that what we're talking about is not limited to the homosexual violations of God's standards. It also includes heterosexual violations of God's standards, fornication and adultery. And the physical consequences you mentioned as well as eternal consequences that I've mentioned. it is instructive for all of us to recognize that God's design for marriage, which is the foundation for family, is pre political. It exists before there was ever any modern iterations of civil government, before any notion. So governments do not have the authority to redefine God's institution. And I don't care what they call it, they can call it same sex marriage. It is not marriage biblically.

Abraham Hamilton III: And God has marriages. Designer is its sole definer. Governments have at its highest efficacy the authority to recognize what God has established, not to redefine what God has established. Our nation's Declaration of Independence recognize that we have been endued by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, which means that they cannot be alienated. Men and governments don't have the authority to take it away. Among them are life. Before you get to liberty in the pursuit of happiness, it's life. Our, preamble to our Constitution, our founders articulated that we are establishing this constitutional republic for the purposes to secure for ourselves the blessings of liberty and to our posterity. There's no posterity without children, right?

Tim Wildmon: Absolutely.

Abraham Hamilton III: And so it is. It's high time, and I know, I know we may be like a reed crying out in the wilderness, being willing to say these types of things, but it's important that we have these types of conversations so people know that we're not just trying to be curmudgeons. We're saying this because we love you. Yeah, we love people.

Ed Vitagliano: I would just. Just briefly say that the reason why the homosexual movement has been so successful politically and culturally is because, as Tim mentioned, of the sexual revolution. Because heterosexuals wanted their sexual sin first. And that mindset left no room to say, well, that's just sinful, homosexual. That's just unnatural. because you'd be asked, well, what's your standard for that? And if you say the Bible is our standard, then that community could say to the heterosexuals, well, you're breaking God's laws, too. And so I think it's fair to say that the heterosexual acceptance of the sexual revolution and the rejection of God's laws allowed and really, was the precondition to the success of the homosexual movement.

Abraham Hamilton III: Very well said.

Walker Wildmon: Amen. Hey, you're watching episode five of this AFA at home edition, and we'll be back in just a few minutes. It was a summer day.

Tim Wildmon: My dad walked in the door and

Fred Jackson: he said, denise, I want to become a woman.

Walker Wildmon: I went through a brutal time of sexual distortion.

Ed Vitagliano: Molestation led me into a lifestyle of being gay identified for eight years. I struggled with my identity all the way through my life. Lived eight years as Laura Jensen until I found the Lord Jesus Christ.

Abraham Hamilton III: The issues are unavoidable.

Fred Jackson: They're on the news, the White House in rainbow colors.

M.D. Perkins: They're in our legislation, the Texas bathroom

Tim Wildmon: bill, in our school, drag queen story

Abraham Hamilton III: out, our entertainment, our social media. They're even reaching into our churches.

Walker Wildmon: Let us be the church together.

Abraham Hamilton III: We're not just talking about issues. We're talking about people.

Tim Wildmon: Began injecting myself with massive doses of testosterone.

Abraham Hamilton III: Right here is the needle. The needle's about this big.

Ed Vitagliano: 15 months on hormone blockers.

Tim Wildmon: Maybe another month of hormones. There was always this elusive happiness, but I never quite got there.

Ed Vitagliano: And you began to realize that maybe

Walker Wildmon: this didn't fix what you needed to fix.

Tim Wildmon: We are taking biologically healthy young children and putting them at risk.

Abraham Hamilton III: Every church in America is facing this. Love and acceptance and inclusion.

Walker Wildmon: They are legally married as Christians. We can't sit this one out.

Ed Vitagliano: Neither can we straddle the fence or just leave it to the experts.

Abraham Hamilton III: Every believer has to discover the truth, and that starts by digging into the scriptures.

Tim Wildmon: Many people now say that my experience trump scripture.

Walker Wildmon: Can we change God's words? We don't have the luxury to edit what God has said.

Ed Vitagliano: Being created in God's image means that God's fingerprints are all over us.

Abraham Hamilton III: The man and the woman are created each for each other. There is a fittedness.

M.D. Perkins: That's the language.

Ed Vitagliano: If Jesus Christ becomes your Lord, he is the one who is to identify who you are.

Tim Wildmon: I love my partner. I left my job. I left my entire identity behind. And it was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Ed Vitagliano: Is it really possible that I, can experience change?

Tim Wildmon: The fact that there's a struggle doesn't

Ed Vitagliano: mean that you're on the wrong path.

Abraham Hamilton III: Obeying God is a struggle.

Tim Wildmon: Holiness is a struggle. There is hope for you.

Ed Vitagliano: God loves you, and you are made

Tim Wildmon: in the image of God. I felt like light was bursting forth from me, and I knew I was completely changed.

M.D. Perkins: Dangerous affirmation the threat of gay Christianity was written to help Bible believing Christians see the influence of the LGBT movement within our churches. To think biblically about the arguments it poses and to respond faithfully in the midst of cultural and religious chaos.

Abraham Hamilton III: Wayne and Micah, you have declared your consent and vows before God and this gathering of family and friends.

Tim Wildmon: When my identity as a gay man and my identity as a Christian came together, I was changed, and my world

Abraham Hamilton III: has never been the same.

Ed Vitagliano: I call on the more than 1100 clergy to perform marriages among same sex couples and to do so in the normal course of their pastoral being.

Walker Wildmon: Real love accepts people as they are

Tim Wildmon: with room for who they may become.

Abraham Hamilton III: But if we can change teaching around the gay issue, it'll show that Christians don't have a literal interpretation of Scripture, and it's not meant to be interpreted on a literal basis. We have to use metaphor and understanding that we can also then judge other aspects of life through that, not liberal, but more intelligent interpretation. And it'll show that Christians and churches can learn and adapt.

Walker Wildmon: wherever we are, the United Methodist

Tim Wildmon: Church continues and allows people to feel

Walker Wildmon: their calling that God has put on their heart, no matter whom they love. Is it possible that gender and sexual minorities who live lives of costly obedience are themselves, a prophetic call to the church to abandon idolatrous attitudes toward

Abraham Hamilton III: the nuclear family, towards sexual pleasure?

Walker Wildmon: If so, then we are prophets.

M.D. Perkins: Gay Christianity is the attempt to reconcile the Christian faith with homosexuality. And there's a number of ways that can happen. In the book, I discuss the ways that gay Christian activists are rethinking theology, rethinking biblical interpretation, rethinking the nature and purpose of the church, rethinking the meaning of personal as well as group identity, and how this collective rethinking is being used to create LGBT activists within conservative Christian churches. Dangerous Affirmation is an effort to dig below the surface and understand what's truly going on. How did we get here? Why is this happening? What does the Bible have to say about all of this? These are the questions I seek to answer in the book.

Tim Wildmon: To order your copy of Dangerous Affirmation, please go to the website dangerousaffirmation.net.

Walker Wildmon: Welcome back to AFA at Home, episode 4 5. We're talking about the subject of human sexuality, otherwise known now as the LGBTQ issue, and the effects it's had on our culture, our society, and our country, and the path forward for our believers. For Christians, how they can address this issue and win over lost souls and redeem people, from this path of.

Tim Wildmon: Win over lost souls. Right?

Walker Wildmon: Yeah. Win. Yeah, win over lost souls. md. you've written a book on this, specifically how the church has handled this issue. talk about, your book, the title of it, and really what led you to write it.

M.D. Perkins: Yeah. So I wrote Dangerous the Threat of Gay Christianity, which is about the overall what we're defining as gay Christianity, which isn't a thing, but we're say that one more time. Gay Christianity is not a real entity, but it is a description of this attempt. Attempt to reconcile the Christian faith and homosexuality. Right. Two things that cannot be reconciled biblically are attempted to be reconciled through these various, nefarious arguments, illegitimate cases, wrong readings of Scripture, and all of that. And so it's important for Christians to recognize the inroads that the LGBT movement has made within their own churches and within denominational structures. You know, Fred referenced it earlier. You know, some of these conversations still happening now in large denominations. I think a lot of Christians can be oblivious to that fact because they just go to church. They feel like they're hearing the message. But the thing that's happening is that, obviously, you have friends, you have family, you have loved ones. Maybe you have a child who comes out and says that I'm gay, or I'm a lesbian, or. Or, I'm transgender. What is the response to that? And that is where the corrosive power for this movement takes place, especially within parents who have a loved one, a child or someone that they are trying to still show compassionate love to. But they're conflicted because they know what the Bible teaches. And so finding, some kind of Christian resource that allows them to affirm that, while feeling like they can maybe hold onto some measure of biblical principle, allows them, they think, the space to be Able to.

Tim Wildmon: How do you deal with, the I was born that way argument? Because that's the first one you're going to get, right? And who are you to tell me, I wasn't born that way or my kid wasn't, you know, how do you deal with that one?

M.D. Perkins: I don't know.

Tim Wildmon: Psychologist.

M.D. Perkins: Well, the reason behind the born that way argument is really political because it creates a civil rights category. But people can have all kinds of desires, for all kinds of things. It doesn't make you innately this, or that thing. And so that's where a lot of the born this way kind of mentality has come from, is from this attempt to essentialize it, to create, ah, a new category of person who is inherently a homosexual. It's worth noting that within the broader spectrum of the LGBT movement, there has been tension over this notion of essentialism versus social construction that is essential. You're born this way. You can't change social construction. I am built up into this mindset and attitude through various social functions and activities and ways of seeing.

Walker Wildmon: That's transgenderism by definition. Right, Right. But the born this way is. You can't change it.

Abraham Hamilton III: That's right.

Walker Wildmon: So that's the kind of.

M.D. Perkins: That's the nature of the inheritance. Every letter of the acronym LGBTQ is in conflict with one another. You know, L is lesbian, is in conflict with gays because they feel like the gay men get all the. All the press and all the initial recognition. Bisexuals feel like they're marginalized because, you know, if you are a bisexual and you go out with someone who is of the opposite sex, it doesn't immediately, image that you are, you know, within this part of the group category. Yeah. And transgender, is against these other ones. And then queer is this total deconstruction of all categories of inherent, value and worth. So, I mean, it's.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, in layman's terms, for people like me, the L, the G, and the B all affirm a binary. Maleness and femaleness. When the transgenderism ideology says there's no such thing as male or female, I mean, literally, it is a. A spectrum that can include male and female, but that's really just a social.

M.D. Perkins: You have radical feminists who are lesbians who are like, you were denied as a transgender person. You were denying my attractiveness to other women because you're saying that I can't. I can't define who I am.

Tim Wildmon: You know what J.K. rowling got in trouble for?

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, exactly.

Tim Wildmon: What the author Harry Potter series She's a feminist. I mean, she's no conservative at all. And yet she's at war with these trans activists who call her a, transphobe.

M.D. Perkins: Right. Trans. Exclusionary, radical feminist. T E R F. Oh, is that what they're called?

Abraham Hamilton III: Transclinary?

Walker Wildmon: So what y' all are saying is that when you throw God's design in the trash, confusion arises, is what we're getting at here, I would say.

Ed Vitagliano: I've been studying this issue since the late 90s, have read a lot of books on the subject, and, what MD has written, Dangerous Affirmations. The best thing I've ever read on this subject. And so that's why we encourage people in church and pastors, but people in church who are trying to encourage their pastor to speak out on this. And for everyone to be watching, for the creeping in of the kinds of language that kind of throws open the door for embracing homosexuality. The book that MD has written is phenomenal. And I know there are.

Tim Wildmon: What's the name of it? How do people get it?

Walker Wildmon: Ed?

Ed Vitagliano: Well, it's, the name of. Well, it's your book. I'm doing the commercial for it.

M.D. Perkins: Dangerous affirmation. Go to dangerousaffirmation.net and you can buy the book through the AFA Resource center there.

Walker Wildmon: Excellent. Also In His Image, which you help produce. MD In His Image movie, excellent documentary resource movie there, that tells the story of redemption and God's plan for human sexuality.

Abraham Hamilton III: Fred, I'm glad you mentioned the redemption part.

Some trans gendered person committed suicide this week

This will be very brief. Everything we're saying is not offered at any point to minimize or to eliminate or to ignore the fact that there are people struggling in different areas. But the struggle is not helped by lying to people. You know, it's not compassionate to lie to people who are struggling. The truth is included in compassionate communication. And we know that. Especially when you think about young people. All of the scientific data shows that young people that may identify themselves as dysphoric or some level of development, if you just leave them alone, don't social transition them, don't cut off their body parts, don't give a bunch of hormones and drugs, let them grow up, the overwhelming majority of them will be okay. Yeah, but it's the lying to them that makes it worse.

Tim Wildmon: And, and what's worse than that too, is in this. Is this becoming the trend in the news. they'll, they'll cite some. Some trans gendered person committed suicide. Okay, I'm seeing this weekly in the news somewhere. and they'll Say inevitably the accusation will be it's because of the Christian right making these people feel bad about themselves because they condemn their behavior and society doesn't accept them. Although I think society is pretty well accepting them. But they'll say that's the reason they have high suicidal rates. So we get the, you know, we get the blame, you know, which is not true. Not true. It's not true. But it's so easy. It's lazy. And they, hey, these people made these people feel bad. They won't accept them. We have to be accepting of all these people into the mainstream of society or else they're going to hurt themselves or have deep problems and commit suicide. and so that's all the problem of the people holding the standard up over here. You know, it's very, the devil's very shrewd with his language and these arguments, these secular regressives and leftist.

M.D. Perkins: When I actually make the point in the book and try and point out the issue of the elevated suicide statistics by examining Scandinavian countries that have, a much longer history of having accepted gay marriage and things like that, well, there's still, still elevated, suicide rates among those who identify as LGBT or even in gay marriages that were said to alleviate, that sense of tension and inner turmoil over those things, but they're still elevated.

Walker Wildmon: So there's a deeper issue at play.

Tim Wildmon: The reason they're committing suicide is not because Christians condemn the behavior, because the Bible does, I say condemn or use the judge. It. It's because they're, they're bothered in their soul about what they're doing

Fred Jackson: and they

Tim Wildmon: don't know how to handle it and it overwhelms them. And, sometimes, sadly, they act self destructively.

Fred: How pastors and church leaders address this is very important

Walker Wildmon: Fred, how pastors and church leaders address this is very important, because as we mentioned, it's kind of here now, definitely will be here in the future, but where the body of Christ is the only holdout, right? The only voice of sanity in the wilderness. but speak to pastors out there, church leaders, or anybody who has an influence on their local congregation, and just how they should be truthful and compassionate in approaching this issue.

Fred Jackson: Well, first of all, you know, a pastor is a shepherd. that's the way scripture refers to it. Jesus is our shepherd. a pastor is the shepherd of a flock that he's been given responsibility over. And I think, the job of a shepherd is to protect the sheep. And if you don't realize what the threat is today of the, pro homosexual transgender movement, Be very clear. They want your children. Yeah, let's start there. They want your children. Your children are being exposed to this. If they're in most schools today, they are being taught this is a normal thing. They're being exposed to it through social media. If your kid's got telephones, so the message.

Tim Wildmon: Cell phones.

Fred Jackson: Cell phones. Cell phones, yeah.

Tim Wildmon: Telephones, no problem.

Fred Jackson: Computer, computers at home, Computers in their rooms. We've talked about this before about. You better find out what your kids are being exposed to. So the shepherd comes along and must first of all, raise the awareness of these dangers to the moms and dads, but also make sure your Sunday school teachers, your daycare people are also checking this out, where if they start to get questions from their kids, they're being exposed to something. You as a shepherd have got to be aware of this. I think for a long time, shepherd's pastors have stayed away from this, saying it's not that big of a problem or. And this is sad. They worry about driving people away if they get into this subject. It's part of scripture. We've been talking about this, this. And you cannot ignore. If you ignore parts of scripture, you're making your congregation very vulnerable to this. You have an obligation as a shepherd to be out there warning people about it. And, don't back away from that, because God will hold you accountable. God will hold AFA accountable for what we do. God holds us accountable, his moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas. And God will hold the shepherd accountable. And, today there are dangers out there. It used to be just talked about, but today the dangers are very significant.

Walker Wildmon: Yeah. And as I mentioned, pastors have to teach the whole council. That means speaking out against adultery, fornication, and other forms of deviating off of God's design. And that brings us to sometimes an uncomfortable approach. Right. Or an uncomfortable position, from a human standpoint, because, the divorce rates are sadly pretty high, even amongst churchgoers. but we have to hit it because God's word, tells us to. We have to touch on it.

Ed: Whether we're talking divorce or births, these have devastating long term effects

Ed, pastors out there, or rather, let's just focus more so on the children. we've been, mostly, we've touched a little bit on the effects of children, but the devastation, not just from an adult humanity standpoint, but also from a child's perspective. Whether we're talking divorce, out of wedlock, births, or, being raised by, two women, a child being raised by two women through foster or Adoption or whatever, these have devastating long term effects.

Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, I mentioned earlier that, even pre Christian or pagan societies understood the importance of the marriage of a man and a woman and the producing of children, the importance of that to the tribe or the nation's longevity. and part of the reason why that's important is not only to keep the birth rate up, we've kind of touched on that. But it's to pass along to the next generation what their parents and their grandparents think is important. and the way that happens in the lives of children is in part dependent upon the fact that both a boy and a girl will, see portrayed for them how a man is to treat a woman, and what traits are considered masculine in their father. And they will see how a woman treats a man in their mother and in God's wisdom, the fact that, men and women are different and at the same time, from a biblical perspective still both together reflect the image of God. God's wisdom is that those children should have a mom and a dad to reflect to those kids, those kinds of distinctions. and so it's not just passing along the ABCs of what we believe is a people. They need to see what a man is, how a man treats a woman, just as I explained. So when you take that away, and sometimes it happens because of war, sometimes a parent dies tragically, that is a significant impact on a child. that's why in Christian communities and biblically speaking, we are to come alongside the widow, okay, and to help do the job of the father. Because the Christian community has long recognized the importance of that impact of mom and dad on those kids. When you take that away, it is taking something away from the children that's critically important that God built into the model. So when kids are raised by two mommies, or two daddies, okay, because of the homosexual acceptance, the community acceptance of homosexual relationships and homosexual marriage, those kids are only getting one side of the lesson that God intended them, them to have. And you are taking something away. Part of what's tragic is that this is all being done for the satisfaction of the adults. We want to get married so that society recognizes our relationship and really disregarding what's best for the kids. And now obviously homosexuals would disagree with us, but we're standing on what the Bible teaches and we're standing on thousands of years of human history, that what's best for the kids is that they have a mom and a dad, if that is at all possible. Barring a, tragedy. So these kinds of relationships, and, you know, there's a lot of selfishness in the heterosexual community, too. But we are just talking about the lgbtq, community. what they're demanding is for their own personal, pleasure. And it's clear from social science even that these kids need, especially their biological mom and dad, but they certainly need that male and female input into their lives.

The lies of homosexuality and transgenderism are particularly susceptible within adolescence

M.D. Perkins: Something I would add on the, pastoral and shepherding, side is that the lies of homosexuality and transgenderism are particularly susceptible within adolescence. And, I mean, why is that kind of the highest demographic rate group of self identification as lgbt? Well, it's because, you know, an adolescent is going through this period of transition and change, physically, emotionally, and, mentally. And you feel out of place, you feel awkward, you feel like you don't fit in. And then when you add this new sexual identity category, well, maybe you feel that way because you. You are this. And so then that becomes something that, an adolescent can feel like, well, maybe that's why I feel that way. Maybe that's the answer to why I feel awkward. And then now, with the elevation of this category, where there's kind of a coolness factor to it, where now you're a protected group and now you are participating in this larger struggle session across society, it's no wonder that there's a growing rate of, adolescents who are identifying within these categories. And however far they end up down that road, there will be devastating impacts, on decisions that are made in

Abraham Hamilton III: youth that's led to the description rapid onset gender dysphoria. You know, you have a child that's doing well, going fine, and then 10, 11, 12, 13, you have a group of girls who all identify at the same time that they're transgender. You know, and you have society, affirming that. And these are the heroes of society. And to your point, we have this hedonistic pursuit of pleasure amongst the adults that is willing to make casualties of children in the wake. And I think it's important to point out God is the one who announced in the beginning he made them both male and female. It shouldn't be surprising to us that children need their biological fathers and mothers to grow into who God made them to be. But our society is shaking the fist and hands of God. No, you didn't make them male and female. So what's often described as a war between the sexes is actually really a war in God's design. Because the only men who are celebrated in today's society are feminized men. The only women who are celebrated in today's society are masculinized women. And so it is this effort to reduce the equal qualitative bearers of God's image that are made complementarily distinct from one another in males and females. But it reduce that into one amalgamation of human goo to where maleness and femaleness becomes interchangeable. Because the thing that underlies, oh, we don't need to have a mom and dad or dad and a mom with their biological offspring. We could put any people together in that soup, it ends up with temporal disastrous consequences because we have an entire generation of young people. Young boys don't have a clue what a man is. Young girls don't have a clue what a woman is. In some instances, certain supreme Court nominees. But that's a conversation for another day, let alone how to interact with one another. I mean, one of the things, unfortunately that's a consequence dealing with counseling certain couples. You know, I've heard young women say, well, I didn't have a dad in my home, so I don't really know how to interact with my husband as the head of my family, you know, some young men, I didn't grow up with a married father, my mother. All I had was mom and grandmom. And so that ends up having that immediate consequence temporally. And the ultimate desire, because all of this comes from the father of lies, is to cause people really to forfeit their eternal souls. And so all of that is at play. It's not just one issue. All of it is at play, but the cascading consequences. And somebody has to hold the line.

Walker Wildmon: Yeah, that's right, folks. God set up standards, for our good and for his purposes. And that's the importance here. This isn't just about God said this. God said that, that is important. That God gave us clear commands in scripture on how we should conduct ourselves. But also, the benefit, the immediate benefit, is that it's good for our humanity, it's good for humankind. And of course it's all part of God's master plan, here on this earth. So there's so much more at play here, the spiritual side and the temporal side. And all of it goes together as part of God's master plan. So we have to speak out on this issue. We have to stand firm on the word of God. Thanks so much for joining us. This has been efaome episode 5. We'll see you next time. Sa.