Introduction: Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age." Welcome to Exploring Missions, connecting mission needs with those equipped by God to meet those needs, across the world or across town. And now, the host of Exploring Missions, Bert Harper.

Bert Harper: Exploring Missions—why in the world do we call it exploring? Well, I want to just tell you, it's amazing what God does in missions. He does it with individuals that—that's their full-time calling, and they go to a foreign country or they work inner-city, and they do it full-time as people support them. But there are those that are volunteers. And with all my heart, I believe they are the very heart of what missions is about.

With that in mind today, I hope you have volunteered to be missional in your town, in your area of residence—you may live out in the country—but there is a possibility that you could be volunteering to do a mission project that would change lives. Well, that's what we want to talk about today here on Exploring Missions, and we hope that you will be ready to hear it and say, "God, speak to my heart as I listen to this." Again, we want you to be on mission for God.

Our guest today is Bruce Brown, and I've known Bruce for 11 years, twice a year. Some people want to know, "How in the world do you become friends, meeting each other twice a year?" Well, because of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Bruce is here—it's during Sharathon—and he's here volunteering to answer the phones, talk to people, to take their pledges, to pray with them. And he's been doing this for quite a while. So, we want to hear his story about, yes, his connection with AFR, but also the other areas of ministry that God has him in to make a difference for the Kingdom. Bruce, thank you for joining us on Exploring Missions.

Bruce Brown: It's my pleasure, Bert.

Bert Harper: Again, 11 years you've been coming to Sharathon? 11 years, twice a year—April and October. Man, I'm telling you what, we will take you up as a resident in Mississippi. That's quite often.

Bruce Brown: I've thought about that a few times, but then my wife says, "No, we can't quite do that yet." So, but yeah, this is a beautiful place. It's wonderful. The people are just like family. I truly look forward to it, and as soon as I leave, I'm ready to go back.

Bert Harper: Well, we look forward to having you each year, and it's a pleasure. Devin and I—Devin's our producer—Devin and I were talking about some possibilities of programs, and Devin said, "How about talking to some of the volunteers that come for Sharathon?" And he was right. And quick as he said it, I said, "Thank you, Devin." And I had in mind who I was going to ask, and you said yes, so I thank you for that. But tell us first how you became acquainted with AFR.

Bruce Brown: Amen. I didn't even know AFR existed. I'm from Southwest Indiana, Vincennes, Indiana, and I always had listened to rock music and country music, and for some reason—unknown reason—I started scanning through the stations, and I found this one station on the lower end. I'm like, "What is this?" And the first person I heard on there was Bryan Fischer, and I was like, "Who is this guy?" Because he—he was very forward about what he believed, very strong about what he believed, and very knowledgeable about what he believed.

But at the time I thought, "This is crazy. I've never heard this before." He was talking about things that I've never heard about on the news before, and it really sparked my imagination; it sparked my wanting to know more. I'd talked to Bryan a couple times when I started coming to Sharathon, but I told him, I said, "He was the guy I loved to hate on the radio, and then I got to where I loved to love him." He was the one that got me started on AFR. But not only...

Bert Harper: Well, let me tell people who Bryan is. He's with the Lord now. He was with us quite a few years. He had the afternoon program. When I think about it, I think of "muscular Christianity." And he—he is a saint of the Lord, loved he and his wife dearly. And he's with the Lord now, but we praise God that his witness still is affecting people today. So, I thank you for that testimony.

Bruce Brown: Amen. Amen. And he—he had me on his show a couple times to explain the same thing. But I mean, not only was Bryan strong there, but it kept me with the station. I kept listening to it, even though at first I didn't really agree with it, but the more I listened to it and listened to the news programs, I realized what I was missing from watching just mainstream—because we didn't have cable TV, we didn't have satellite TV, we just had ordinary three-station TV. I did not realize everything that was going on. And a lot of people don't realize what's going on; they don't understand. If you don't hear the other side, you don't know what you're missing.

Bert Harper: The biblical worldview is the bedrock of what we do here at AFR. In missions, it's what we do; it's the very bedrock of what we do. A biblical worldview is missional. And what our mission statement talks about is to inform, and equip, and activate. And when you look at the Bible, and you look at the Great Commission, and you look at going and preaching, that's what we're doing our best to do. So, it started that way, and we thank God for that. Well, tell us a little bit about your hometown. You talked about, you know, you sound like you was out from there, not necessarily—that sounds like your address, but no cable, nothing, you know?

Bruce Brown: Well, we lived out in the country, and we had a large tower with a TV antenna on it. Vincennes is a historical area; a lot of things happened pre-Revolutionary War in that area. It was like that was the opening to the West at one time. And there were a lot of French and Indian traders and such that actually colonized the Vincennes and Knox County area.

Bert Harper: So, as you started listening, you started listening to other programs on AFR, not just—not just Bryan?

Bruce Brown: Yeah. Not just Bryan, but it just so happened that, like on my way home from work, he would be on. So, I would listen, but then I started listening throughout the day, off and on whenever I had a chance. And that's when I realized what all AFR had to offer. It was pretty amazing, and it actually got me interested and helped me in my Christian walk. It really did.

Bert Harper: Well, what was the transition of you being a listener and coming all the way to Tupelo from Indiana to volunteer?

Bruce Brown: Okay. I started listening, and then I got my wife starting to listen, and after listening for a while, I—like I said, as I made that change in my life, I felt the urge to start donating. So, we started donating, and then I got to be a monthly donor. And one time, I heard them ask for volunteers. So, I told my wife, I said, "I think I have a call to go to Tupelo and answer phones for Sharathon."

And she looked at me with a very puzzled look, and she said, "You won't even answer the phone here! And you want to do that for how many hours during the day for three days?"

And I said, "I know, that seems kind of strange, but I really want to give it a try."

Bert Harper: AFR takes you places you never thought you'd go!

Bruce Brown: Amen! I'd never been to Tupelo before. I had no idea—I didn't even know where Tupelo was. I mean, I've heard of Tupelo, but I didn't know where it was or what all went on here. But yeah, I had that—and I really had a deep urge to go.

Bert Harper: So, that was close to 11 years ago, and you've kept coming back.

Bruce Brown: Yeah. And I—at first, I wasn't able to come to both of them. I had to make a choice whether I was going to the fall one or the spring one, just because of the way my vacation time would fall. But later on, I was able to manage my vacation time a little bit better and able to make both of them, because it was just that I wanted to come.

Bert Harper: And the whole idea is volunteer. This is the whole idea, and that's the nature of this program. People can hear the call for a local ministry, of doing things; they can hear a call for a mission trip to go to a foreign country because of their church and them going to those. But you've got to be open to it. When you do volunteer and you do respond, is there an investment on your part, kind of like, "Okay..."?

Bruce Brown: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You've got to drive down, you've got to realize how long it's going to take to get there, and then you have to find a place to stay when you get here. So, I mean, you've got your fuel, your mileage, your time, and then the money you're going to spend, because, you know, it's all on you to get down here. But God puts it on your heart.

Bert Harper: Yeah, we don't have—we don't have travel scholarships. Yeah, you've got to come.

Bruce Brown: No, you don't have. We don't—I can't turn in mileage and get paid for it or anything like that, and that never even crossed my mind to do that. I wanted to be here.

Bert Harper: Well, man, we are so glad you are. But that's not the only thing you volunteer for.

Bruce Brown: No.

Bert Harper: Okay, we want to hear some more of this and how the church, and you, and Bonnie are involved in that. Tell us a little bit about those things that you've just given me the names; I want to know more information!

Bruce Brown: Yes, sir. In my local church, I teach middle school and high school Sunday school; I enjoy that. I help with Bible studies. My wife goes to a Bible study through the week at our church. We help with meals and such that are fixed at our church. And I actually volunteered—you know, I open the doors for people at church and help them get in if they need help.

Bert Harper: I want to tell you, all of the things you have mentioned—teaching and everything—greeting people and helping people, people have no earthly idea how important that is. With me and Jan now not going to the same church all the time, not pastoring, but interim here and sometimes supplying, having someone to meet you there before you go in or after you just get in makes a world of difference. It can set the tone for the whole event. I'm saying that truthfully, Bruce. And so that's a—besides teaching, those are valuable, valuable volunteer ministries that you're doing.

Bruce Brown: Thank you, Bert. And I tell you what, they realize when you're not there. If you miss a Sunday, it's like, "There was nobody to open the door for me," and I'm like, "I'm so sorry."

Bert Harper: We had a guy at our church where I pastored here in Tupelo. We had bulletins, you know. He said if he missed a bulletin, he'd run you down to tackle you to give you one. Now, I'm exaggerating, but I've seen him: "Hey, you missed something!" He'd run to get them a bulletin, shake their hand, give them a warm welcome. "Greet one another with a holy kiss." Well, I tell folks, I said, "I'm going to greet you, but I'm going to leave off that." Yeah, give them a hug and a handshake. Okay, that's great, but there's other areas there that you...

Bruce Brown: Amen, yes! Almost 20 years ago, there was a group I was in—and as far as I know, we'd never been in jail before; at least I know I hadn't been in jail before! But for some reason, we just had this—and it all came about pretty close to the same time—we had this urge, this calling to start a ministry in our county jail, just a Bible study or—or something. We didn't even really know for sure what we wanted to do, but we were being sparked to do something at our county jail. None of us had ever done it before, and we didn't even know if they would allow us to do it or not.

So, there was four of us. We got together with our pastor, called the county sheriff, and he had himself and some representatives there. And we had actually met as a group of four and tried to come up with some kind of a program that we wanted to do. Like I said, we didn't know for sure what it was going to be or how it was going to turn out. And somebody mentioned, "Well, why don't we just do a little Bible study? See what they're interested in."

And so, we came up with a little Bible study, and we presented it to the sheriff and to the representatives from the county jail. And they said that they would give it a try. They would allow us to go in one hour on a Sunday night and not preach, but just do a Bible study, because none of us were preachers or anything like that; we were just laypeople in the church.

And so, you don't realize until you go through that door, when that closes shut and you hear that big clank...

Bert Harper: You hear that—I don't care if you've been put in or you're just going in, you hear that, yeah.

Bruce Brown: It's a loud clank, and you look back and you're not going back out; you're in there. It was very humbling at first. We met with them, and at first we met with anywhere from 10 to maybe 25 people, you know, men. And it kind of evolved as we learned what was going on and how to prepare and what to expect. But it was really neat. These guys were hungry for the Bible. They didn't have anything there. They had access to Bibles, but they really didn't have any guidance; it was just what God put on their hearts, and they didn't even know for sure what they were doing.

So, as we organized and we went through this, we started getting them to develop small groups within their—what they call "pods"—and prayer groups within their pods. That really helped because we talked about accountability to each other and how we use accountability ourselves to keep ourselves honest and upright.

Bert Harper: You know, when I hear that, breaking off into groups, it just doesn't work in—in incarceration, it works everywhere. Jesus' 12, that was a group, but then if you start looking at the 12, He divided them up into areas of responsibility and accountability. Those two things go together. Absolutely. If you're going to be responsible, you better be accountable; if you're going to be accountable, you better be responsible—they go hand-in-hand. So, as this developed, did the Bible study last and continue? Did y'all find help or y'all just kept on digging on your own? How did that happen?

Bruce Brown: We went through our pastor, and then he kind of helped advise us, and depending on who was in office at the time—we've been doing this for almost 20 years now.

Bert Harper: Okay.

Bruce Brown: So, we've went through a few administrations and a few changes in what we can and can't do. But no, we still do it. We start off talking about small group studies and prayer circles, and anything that they had questions about during that time. We talk about—you can read the Bible yourself, but until you discuss it and read it together and understand each other's views of the Bible, or a piece of passage of Scripture, and to be able to discuss it, because you may see something different than I see. And if I weren't with you, then I'd totally miss that.

Bert Harper: Yeah, on the other program that I do, Exploring the Word, Alex and I are amazed at—okay, we're starting over; we've done all the books of the Bible, and now we're in the books for the second time, and each time we're amazed, "Oh, we didn't see that then!" and you see it now. That's the power of the Word of God, isn't it?

Bruce Brown: Absolutely! It—it can change us, and it reveals something new to us each time we look at it, or at least it can. So, we tell them to discuss it between themselves, and it doesn't mean one person's right and one person's wrong; it's just two different views, and you grow that way. And you grow so much—

Bert Harper: Iron sharpens iron. Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Brown: Exactly. Exactly. You grow so much more. And I said, you know, you don't want to get your groups too big, right, because then you do more discussion than you do reading. Keep it small, but keep it honest, and—and keep it true.

Bert Harper: Okay, the four that started, how many of you are still doing it?

Bruce Brown: We had one of us pass away, so there's three originals, but we're—we're up to 10 people all together now. So, we've got more people.

Bert Harper: And so, three of the four originals, after 20 years, are still plugging away.

Bruce Brown: Yep, and—and we've added to our numbers. And we're not all from the same church; we're from three different churches.

Bert Harper: See, that expands, catching a vision. Yeah. Volunteers usually respond to a challenge and a vision of what God would have them to do. So, that's awesome. Well, is there other prison ministry that you're involved in besides the local one there?

Bruce Brown: Uh, yes. And—and this is something that started shortly after we started with our county group, a thing called Kairos. It's Kairos Prison Ministries, and it's an international ministry. It's in several different nations, and I think it's up to 38 different states in the United States now. And it is set up on the same premises as the Walk to Emmaus. You have tables, you have table leaders, and then you have inmates that fill in the spots on the tables.

Bert Harper: Well, let's stop a second. Those of you that may not know what the Walk to Emmaus is, it is a weekend retreat when you are sent to a retreat center where you can get away from the life of social media and television. And it's you, and people, and people who are helping you lead you. And the two on the road to Emmaus, that's where Jesus appeared to them after the Resurrection and He opened the Scriptures to them. And all of a sudden, they had great understanding.

So, having that time frame and that time period, those two guys headed back to Jerusalem to tell everybody, "Hey, He's alive, and you won't believe what He showed us in the Scriptures!" That's basically what it is. So, you open up the Scriptures in this.

Bruce Brown: Yes, sir, we sure do. And talks are given. They're a little bit different structure, a little bit differently than the Walk to Emmaus. They're more towards what they need to understand in a prison setting. And these—these are big prisons; these are state-run prisons, not federal, but state. And the first talk that's given is "Choices." The choices we make have gotten us where we are today.

Bert Harper: Yeah. Hey, choices—

Bruce Brown: And that's a big one.

Bert Harper: Yeah, decisions have consequences; they really do. And they determine destiny, too, man. So, the choices is the first thing. That makes them look deep into their own choices, does it not?

Bruce Brown: Absolutely. It gets them to own up to what's happened. We can't blame everybody else for our problems. We have to take ownership of it, and then move on. Ask for forgiveness for what we've done, be able to forgive ourselves for what we've done, and then be able to forgive others for what's been done.

Bert Harper: So, as you open up with this, the people who are here, they're making a determination what they're going to do next. If they keep on blaming others and do not take responsibility, then probably the rest of the steps on the road going to be tough. Going to be tough. But when they do take responsibility, do you go further?

Bruce Brown: We go further. Uh, this starts on a Thursday, and by Saturday we're into the forgiveness mode. We're able to forgive ourselves, to forgive others for what's been done to us, and to be able to ask for forgiveness for what we've done to other people.

Bert Harper: You know, two of the things—and I bring this up a lot when Jan and I are—are doing a retreat—two things that people have a hard time dealing with in the area of forgiveness is unhealed, broken relationships, and the other one is unmet expectations. Oh boy. Those two things drive us to anguish, depression. And so having to deal with that—the unhealed, broken relationships—and sometimes you cannot heal them, but it goes back to the forgiveness. You can get right even if that person's not right. Absolutely.

And then when we look at unmet expectations, we look at that and say, "Okay, God, I did not measure up, but You take me where I am right now." Absolutely. And God is able to do that, isn't He, Bruce?

Bruce Brown: He sure is, absolutely. We've seen inmates that actually go through this program, and it actually—you can see a change in their lives. Some of them you don't, but there are definitely some that actually you can see on that evening of the forgiveness ceremony, you can see these guys breaking down, and you know that God has touched their lives.

Uh, I've—I've seen a guy who was the leader of an Aryan—the Aryan Nation group within the prison we go into, broke down, and he totally changed his life; he gave his life to Christ. And from that point on, he was a marked man, because he gave up his position with a group—a very violent group. He was in danger. So, he went from being the leader of the group, to exiting the group, to preaching against the group, and for God.

Bert Harper: You know, a journey—

Bruce Brown: Mhm, quick one!

Bert Harper: Quick one! But all of us are on it, on—on this journey. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a professor at Blue Mountain Christian University that I attended, and he'd call it "your pilgrimage." And we're all on these, and God's going to bring people into your life. And when this ministry comes into the lives of these inmates, they have that choice, and then they have the choice, "Okay, am I going to hold on to it or am I going to move on?" Do they move on unless there is forgiveness, Bruce?

Bruce Brown: Oh, I don't think so. There's got to be forgiveness in there somewhere. And this guy, I mean, he—he'd forgiven—he had actual—he was screaming for forgiveness for the crimes that he had committed against these other people, that he never even thought of before. It just—it was just part of how he functioned, and what was expected of him. And now God expected something different, and his life was just totally turned around.

Bert Harper: Okay, I want to do a connection here, see if we can do it, and then I want you to encourage people to volunteer in the area. But what you hear on AFR, in the program, in the Bible studies, the knowledge of what's going on, the truth of how you look at things, a biblical worldview, does that help you in the ministry in the jail ministry?

Bruce Brown: Oh, absolutely! How to deal with people, and just opening up Scripture to us, and maybe like we talked about, discussing it, and getting a new view of what it means. Because I could have read it, like I said, a dozen times, and I didn't see what you saw. And when you explain that, and I hear it, and I—and I actually feel it, then I'm able to go out and express that to other people. And it just—it helps. It opens up your mind, and it helps to relax you when you go into these places.

Bert Harper: Okay, go back one more thing, and then I do want you to speak to those people out there that say, "Well, I see what Bruce is saying, but I've never responded," and I want them to respond. Is this—part of our mission statement is "equip." So, our—not only just equipping people to know how to live, equipping others to minister to others—that's missional, isn't it?

Bruce Brown: Absolutely, absolutely! Just listening to people talk about their experiences, it just puts you at ease, and it—and it helps you to realize that, yeah, that is part of my job, too, to go out and be missional. And I never thought about that. Like I said, I never saw myself going into jail or the prison ministry. I had no, you know—just a few years before that, I had no desire to go in there. And now, if I miss it, if for some reason I can't go, then I do miss that time with those guys. It means a lot. And the preparation, it—it helps us to feel better about going in.

Bert Harper: Okay, we got some Bruces out there that are listening, and maybe some—your wife's—Bonnies listening, and they say, "Well, you know, I don't think it—I could do it." Hey, you're doing something that you felt led to do—coming here to volunteer, to answer phones—and then God impressing you to go behind bars and share the Good News of Christ. Encourage those people out there that are struggling, "Should I, or should I not?"

Bruce Brown: I can tell you my feeling: I was scared to death at first. But I didn't let that intimidate me. I really and truly felt an urge that I needed to do something, and I didn't know what. But God pointed me in that direction that He wanted me to go, and you just have to trust; you have to have faith that what you're doing is—is actually what God is calling you to do. And I truly think that was part of my mission.

Bert Harper: And so, God has supplied that for you?

Bruce Brown: Absolutely.

Bert Harper: I really—

Bruce Brown: And the men around us! I mean, it wasn't us; they came to us saying, "Can I help you with this?" It was just like, "Wow!"

Bert Harper: Well, those of you that are listening and you didn't tune in when we started, our conversation is with Bruce Brown. He's here at AFA/AFR headquarters, and at Sharathon. And Devin, again—Devin Patrick, our producer, said, "Don't you think it'd be a good Exploring Missions to interview someone about that come here that's volunteering?"

Well, I want to just tell you, I got more than I thought we would get! And not only in the local church, in the local community, but now nationwide, and because of the internet, worldwide ministry. And that's exactly what God does. Have you noticed the expansion? Y'all started with four guys, and now there's more than that ministering in the jail. And they've come to you saying, "We need to be a part of that."

Bruce Brown: Absolutely, yeah.

Bert Harper: Let me just encourage those of you that are listening. You've heard Bruce, and you've heard his story about how he came to be a volunteer in missional work. I just want to share with you, if you're not doing that, you're probably missing out on something God wants you to do. It may not be speaking; it can just be simply doing. And—but volunteer and let God use you in this mission of the Great Commission, sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. Bruce, thank you for being with us today, brother.

Bruce Brown: Well, thank you, Bert, for having me. And Devin, thank you for having me!

Bert Harper: Thank you for listening to Exploring Missions, and may God use you on His mission for you!