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>> Bert Harper: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Bert and Alex are exploring the Book of Romans chapter 4

Welcome to Exploring the Word. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness. We're in the Book of Romans chapter 4 today on exploring the Word. This is Bert and Alex and it's a joy to be with you as we get to come to you each day and Monday through Friday at this time and go through the word of God. We're going through the book of Romans and what a journey it has been. And I just want to tell you it does not stop. This is some scripture and as Alex has said several times, the book of Romans has been used of God to do great movements, the Reformation, the first great awakening, so many more. And I just want to tell you if you ah, will spend time in the Book of Romans, you will be blessed. Well Alex, we're enjoying the journey and now we're going to the proof of this that people have been saved by faith in the scriptures all the way through, not just in the New Testament, but what about the Old Testament?

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, throughout the Old Testament and the Bible is consistent really. and welcome to Exploring the Word. We're going to be getting into Romans chapter four in depth today. And Paul in the chapter three quoted the Old Testament extensively. We talked about the fact that Paul, you know, quotes the old testament like 183 times and 70, I believe it was 74 times in the book of Romans, and he quotes or references the Old Testament. So let me get into chapter four here. And again the message that he is trying to persuade his Jewish readers to get is that righteousness is not by works of the law. The law of God is perfect and holy. But if we're honest, we have in one or more points we have violated God's law, therefore we're sinners. So we can't. First of all, you can't earn your salvation by keeping the law. And even if you could, none of us have any hope because we've broken God's law. And of course very famously Romans 3:23 all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But the righteousness of God, and this is so interesting Bert, the righteousness of God and, and the fulfillment of the law is by putting your faith in Jesus. Isn't that something? Now all of that to get to Romans 4. What shall we say then? That Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh hath found. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. In other words, he could boast, wow, look how good I was. I earned salvation. But what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God. This is Genesis 15:6. Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Alex: Christian good news is different than any other world religion

Bert, we're about to embark on one of the most absolutely, utterly unique parts of the Christian gospel. And let me just say this. I've had skeptics say over the years, they'll say, well, you know, it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're sincere. Or I've heard people say, well, all religions teach the same thing. False. It does matter what you believe. Sincerity alone is not the litmus test. But here's the thing, Bert. the Christian good news is different. let's talk about this for a second. In what ways is Christian different? I would say virgin, born, sinless savior. No other belief system can claim that, can they?

>> Bert Harper: They cannot. And he came to us, we can't work our way to him. listen, he. And that's the virgin birth that you're talking about. We're also talking about a, God who is balanced in holiness and love. You will discover any other religion, it's going to be one sided or the other. It's going to be that mush or that harsh. But in Jesus Christ we have that balance, Alex, of holiness and justice. And because of Jesus and what he's done for us, God's justice is satisfied. The wrath of God is satisfied, as the song says, in Christ alone. And it is completely different than any other world religion.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, Bert, it's been said that, religions kind of fall into two ditches. One is legalism and the other is license. And you, know legalism. And many of these Jewish readers that Paul was speaking to would have been, very proud of their self righteousness. Legalistic. and, and it's been said that, legalism is truth at the expense of love. But now license is love at the expense of truth. And there's both. And, but let me, let me submit. And this is why I keep saying, and it's not original with me, but many people like the Wesleys and others and Luther has said that. And C.S. lewis, by the way, said that the book of Romans is the most important written document in human history. This is so unique. In verse three counted or reckoned or imputed.

Bert says if you put your trust in Jesus, righteousness is imputed

Bert, for let's talk about imputation. And that might sound like a big 85 cent word, folks, but this is so unique. No other belief system has this. The uniqueness of what the Gospel promises, that if you put your faith in the Lord Jesus, the standard for heaven, which is righteousness, which we don't have, and, we can't really earn it. so what do we do? Well, you put your trust in Jesus and his righteousness is imputed to you or accounted or credited to you. Bert, that's just absolutely unique, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. And that word that you're using, credited, whatever is used 11 times in this one chapter. 11 times. Now it's used in different ways, imputed, you know, credited, so forth. And. But it has the idea our account is put on him and his account is put on ours. Okay, now that's powerful when you think about it. And that's what that imputation is about, Alex. In other words, our account is sinful. I mean, we come up short. We, you know, our credit is passed out, we have nothing. And he, our account is put on his, which is full, and then he takes his account, which is full and pure, and put on ours. Therefore we have that account. It's in him. And the word is. And Paul uses this several times all through his writings. Christ in you, it's in us. he has done that for us. Now verse four and five kind of explains that. Let me read that and then we'll go ahead with. Cause these words, all that you're using, they're all through here. Now, to the one who works. And I'm reading from the Christian Standard Bible today. I just picked it up different. So, it used to be the Holman Christian Study Bible. now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. But to the one who does not work, but believes on him who declares righteous, the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness. There's that word again, Alex. It's all through here. Notice it says his faith is credited for righteousness. God's faith list. our faith in him puts us right with God. So if we had something to boast about, brag about. Look, look what I've done, man. I've earned my salvation. No, it's no way. And I used this illustration yesterday and I'll use it again and throw it back to you. I did dig a hole this past Saturday and I, was planting a bush. Hopefully Become a small tree. And I dug the hole pretty. Pretty good. Pretty deep. And, I looked at that hole, and I said, I believe it'll fit in there now. So I put it in. But digging that hole and bragging about my hole that I dug would be like boasting about something. Comparing it to the Grand Canyon. Now, again, when I have something to boast about, look what I've done. And I boast that in front of God. Listen, it's nothing. And that's why it's by faith Our. Our best is his filthy rags. Alex. We have nothing to bring. We have nothing to brag about. It is by grace, through faith that we're saved. There is no other way.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen.

Alex Harper: Romans chapter four talks about salvation through faith

Let me. Let me read this. And again, this is so profound, so important. Okay. Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now, to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him, m. That worketh not, but believeth on him who justifies the ungodly. That's Jesus. His faith is counted for righteousness. So you believe in Jesus. And Jesus is the one. He's the only one who is capable of justifying the ungodly. And yes, apart from salvation, in the eyes of a holy God, we are ungodly. But you trust Jesus. You. Your faith is counted or credited for righteousness. Even as David also described the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputes righteousness without works. And he gets up here and he quotes Psalm, 32, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. have you ever heard of, I heard a preacher preach on the Great Exchange, and then he corrected himself. He said, the grace exchange. Our sin and guilt is no longer imputed to us. And yet Christ's righteousness, holiness, forgiveness, salvation is imputed to us. We didn't earn it. We couldn't earn it.

>> Bert Harper: We.

>> Alex McFarland: We couldn't buy it. We didn't deserve it. That's. That's why all we can really do is bow our heads and say the Lord, thank you. Thank you, dear Jesus, for loving me. Thank you for showing me mercy. And thank you that by knowing Jesus, I am secure forever in you. kind of makes you grateful, doesn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It does. Now notice what he does here. This is. This is powerful. He brings out Abraham, David, and through the law, Moses. So what. What, Paul is doing here? He's bringing about These three giants of the faith in the Jewish, you know, history. And he talks about them, and them talking about salvation through faith. It's not, it's not by their works. And listen, if, if he could prove that about Abraham, he could prove that about David. If he didn't prove that about Moses, I just want to tell you, not another one of those guys that are trying to say, oh, we were saved by our works. They don't stand a chance, Alex. And so what Paul does here, he wraps that up and again, this, I'm, going to use the word argument that he makes to let them know that you're saved by grace and, and through faith he makes it strong. And in verse nine, is this blessing only for the circumcised then, or is it also for the uncircumcised? For we say faith was credited to Abraham for righteousness. There's that word again, as I said, used again and again, verse 10. How then was it credited while he was circumcised or uncircumcised? He answers that not while he was circumcised, but, uncircumcised. In other words, he was a gentile before he was, you know, without circumcision. And so here he puts it on them that Abraham was justified before circumcision. He's also, justified before the law. And so what could the law do? Because here was Father Abraham, and they were big on Father Abraham because they were saying, okay, if the law doesn't, what about Abraham? Moses doesn't? David? No. What about Abraham? Well, we're looking at Romans, chapter four. We're going to be back and study more. And we've got a surprise for you in the opening, so don't turn those radios off. want to listen to this? I think you're going to be blessed. Will you take a moment and celebrate life with me? Last year, preborn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies from abortion. Hi, this is Burt Harper and I want to thank you for your partnership. Think about what you did. 67,000 babies are taking their first breath now because of you. Your $28 sponsored one ultrasound that was given to a woman as she was deciding about the future of her child. Once she saw her precious baby for the first time and heard that sweet heartbeat, her baby's chance at life doubled. But PreBorn's mission is not only to rescue babies lives, but also to lead women to Christ. Last year, PreBorn network clinic saw 8,900 women receive salvation. Your Help is crucial to continue their life saving work.

>> Alex McFarland: This land is mine. God gave this land to me, this brave, this golden land to me. And when the morning sun reveals her hills and plains, I see a land where children can run free.

Today is the 77th birthday of the reborn nation of Israel

Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Alex and Bert here. May, 14th, 2025. Hey, part, of the reason we're opening with that song. That's Pat Boone's 1963 song, the Exodus song. today is Israel's birthday. And Bert, before we resume with Romans chapter four, let's talk about this a little bit. You know, I guess it was about five years ago at nrb we had Pat Boone on, which was a great honor. But, the Exodus sung, this land is mine. That land belongs to the Jewish people. May 14, 1948, at approximately midnight, then Prime Minister David Ben Gurion announced the reborn state of Israel. Now, Bert, this is amazing. 11 minutes later, 11 minutes into Israel's existence, US President Harry Truman said, America recognizes the sovereign nation of Israel.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And Today is the 77th birthday of the reborn nation of Israel. And, you know, I don't want to deviate from Romans 4, but I just cannot overstate the prophetic significance of that. and Happy birthday, Israel. It's historical day, isn't it, Bert?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. And what a day it was. People, you know, surprised they didn't see it. But Harry Truman, because of his upbringing by his mom and what he had been taught, he recognized that quickly and that was significant for him to be in the White House at the timing of, of when it took place. And the movie, I, again, I, I watched it. It's a long movie, Exodus, and it tells, about that time and different things. Now, it's a movie, but, it's, it's, it's said in that time frame about Israel, becoming a nation and being recognized. And, I remember the first time I saw that. I said, man, this is, this is amazing. And, again, it's, the song Alex, Pat Boone singing that. It just sets that tune. And if you'll go back and listen to it, the music, that introduces the words. We didn't do that because we wanted to get to the words, but the music that brings it in has a man, a strong, sense of God presence, I would say. And so, anyway, I'm glad you thought about that. And we're celebrating the 77th birthday of Israel. What a birthday it is.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And you know, the Exodus song, there are a number of very stirring versions of that. And we're not going to recount the story now, but, you know, I'll tell you what plays into this, a lot was Winston Churchill and Lord, Arthur James Balfour, who was a very well known British statesman and, war hero. And, you know, one of the interesting things was Lord Balfour's, grandfather had been a minister that participated in really, ah, a British Great Awakening, in the 1800s, right. And there had been, you know, just a great, great revival. And, Balfour's grandfather had always told him as a boy, someday, before the Lord comes back, Israel will be regathered as a nation. And so after World War I, Churchill and Balfour and, an Oxford chemist that was knighted named Chaim Weitzman, they began to talk. And, anyway, long story short, America and Britain were very instrumental in helping with the rebirth, of the state of Israel. And Bert, Jesus is coming back one of these days. And I really do think that when Israel was regathered and reconstituted as a nation, that put the, hands of the clock of history in high gear, really.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

Bert Huntington: I think we are in the midst of a great revival

Let me make one more comment before we go back into Romans 4 after hearing you, Harry Truman being the president, General Balfour and him, the training that he had received, what his grandfather did, Winston Churchill, it's the event, but it's also the things that preceded the event. Have you noticed that? You know, we look at the event, we say, man, look at that event, but see what preceded it. Sort of like the American Revolution, what a revolution it was. But what preceded that? The first Great Awakening. And when you see all that, it's happening, and then when you see, how slavery, how it was finally defeated and put away, what preceded that? It was the great prayer revival that swept across the Northern states in the 1850s. And so there's always this preceding and somebody. People say, do they know they're in a revival when they're in a revival? Most of the times you don't know you're in a revival until after some things has happened, but you always, and it's kind of like studying Scripture now. Okay, take this. You want to look to see where it's happening, what took place before, what took place after. When you look at scriptures, you find out where it is, but you want to read what was preceding it and what was following it. And, when we do that with the nation of Israel's birthday, I think you see all that coming to true. Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and let me say this. You know, we glibly talk about 200 years going by, but really in the big scheme of history, you know, a couple of hundred years in church history, perspectives is not that long. Now let me say this, and then we'll get back to Romans. But I do believe, I think, that the spirit of God is moving. I think here in America we are in the midst of the beginnings of a great revival. And I'll just say this. A lot of the great awakenings seem to come in about 60 to 75 year intervals. And I'm old enough. I remember Bert, I was just a kid, but around 1971, 72, 73, there was the Jesus movement and a movie I would strongly urge you guys to see. About a year ago there was a movie called Jesus Revolution and it was produced largely by Greg Laurie, a great minister. Greg Laurie, Jesus Revolution. it will help you understand. And now that's been 60 years ago, right? But Bert, I'm old enough. I remember my sister who was she was about five and a half years older than me and she and all her teenage friends would gather in my parents basement and have Bible study for like two hours and they were playing praise songs and I wasn't quite old enough to understand it all. But you know, by the late 70s, early 80s, you know, the Gaithers were on TV, Pat Roberts and Jerry Falwell was on TV. you know, there was a great awakening and we're now 50 plus years removed from that. But now it's starting back in our own time. And you're right, I think we see the revivals God brings, sometimes retrospectively looking.

>> Bert Harper: We do. Now let me just. I was alive during that time in my little community here in northeast Mississippi, north of here. Wheeler, Wheeler, Baptist Church. We had a little, a house came available to buy and the church bought it and the youth took it over so we could have our Bible studies there. And we were doing Bible studies. Some of my friends went out to Dallas where they had the gathering there and oh yeah, they explo 72 yes, they were there and they came back just on fire for God, telling us what all God was doing and had done. So I remember those years, they were awesome years. And, and I, I would say this also. What's happening now. Now the anti Semitic folks, supporting Hamas and all of that, they're getting a lot of publicity in Columbia and Washington University. Washington University, Harvard. But I want to tell you what's taken place in Auburn University, Ohio State, Georgia, Florida state, Huntington Beach, California. Huntington beach, where they baptized 7750, people, 300 different churches in California. They gathered together on Huntington beach and had the largest baptism service that they know, professing Christ. So I'm telling you, I agree with you, Alex. And remember about two years ago, was it up in Asbury, when a strange, I'm using that word, movement of God began to happen? And, so here on afr, especially exploring the word, we not only want to report it, we want to, we want to spread it that God is doing some work. And, let's get in on it. Don't let it pass you by. Wherever you are in church, don't let it pass you by. See, do what Henry Blackaby did. Find out where God's working and join him. Alex, we need to do that, don't we?

>> Alex McFarland: We do. And no matter where you are, in where you have church, I mean, maybe you're in a big city or maybe you're in a rural area. No matter where you are, get one other person or a couple of people and pray for revival and focus on worshiping Jesus. Lift up the name of Jesus and then, praise his name and pray for the spirit of God to move. And look, revival is possible. The presence of God is available. And, you know, the preaching of God's word. And we've talked about the fact how God uses the book of Romans. Now before the break, we were talking about how, it's of faith, not works. The righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer. And then in really nine through 12, Paul says, Look, this is not just for the Jews, for the Gentiles. And let me very briefly go back a little bit, because in Romans 2, 17 and 18, Paul says, Look, you're not just a Jew by resting in the law. Romans 2:28, 29, he is really a Jew who is inwardly. And then if you go over there to Romans 3:29, God is not the God of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles. And how Jew, Gentile, male, female, Oriental, Occidental, whatever your ethnicity, how do you enter a relationship with the true and living God? By putting your faith in Jesus Christ, the one that God sent.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. He is the only way, the way, the truth, the life, it's in Christ and only in him. Again, we're reading for this. It's talking about Abraham when he was circumcised. It was after he was accounted to him for righteousness. And, listen, before he was circumcised, he had trusted the Lord. And it was counted to him for righteousness. And listen to verse 13. For the promise of Abraham, or to his descendants that we would inherit the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. Again, not through the law, not by Moses. If those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made empty and the promises cancelled. For the law produces wrath. But there is no law. There is no transgressions. This is why the promise is by faith, so that it may be according to grace, to guarantee it to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the law, but also of those who are of Abraham's faith. He is the father of us all. Now listen to this. Verse 17. In God's sight, as it is written, I have made you the father of many nations. Alex, it says in Revelation, from every tribe, every tongue, every group of people, they're going to be before the throne singing, worthy is the lamb that was slain. And guess what?

Paul says you're saved by faith, not by law

Here we find Abraham. He was made a father to many nations. All the tribes, all the tongues were saved by grace, through faith, not by the law. This is what Paul is stating, and he makes it plain here. And those Romans that were Jewish, Romans, and they were reading this, I think it was letting them know, listen, you're saved by faith, not by law. Listen, don't, don't, don't think that the uncircumcised of the Gentiles cannot be saved. They can, because all the nations are saved. How? By grace, through Faith.

>> Alex McFarland: Romans 13:4. Romans 4, 13:25 goes on. And, you know, I realize it's, kind of deep, but Paul restates from several different vantage points. He's trying to get this across. And he says that if, if they who are of the law be heirs of the promise, faith is made void and the promise made of none. Effect. Now, what's interesting is heirs, Isaac was the heir. Abraham, and Sarah had Isaac. And it would be through the lineage of Abraham that Jesus would come. Now, we, too, are heirs, if you believe in Jesus. And your inheritance is this wonderful thing called salvation. So there's a little bit of double meaning here, that Isaac is the heir, not Ishmael, and we are the heirs by believing in Jesus.

Let's talk about righteousness through not law, but faith

Now, let's talk about righteousness through not law, but faith. Verse 15. Because the law worketh wrath. Now, if you're trying to get to heaven by works of the law, you're under wrath, not grace. Interesting. Verse 15. For where no law is, there is no transgression. But remember in Romans 1 and 2, Paul said the knowledge of God's law is universal. The Jews have the scriptures, the oracles of God, but the Gentiles, who did not even have the written revelation of God by nature, do the things prescribed by the law. So it shows the laws written on their heart. So, Bert, I want to say this about Romans 4:15. It is not saying there's a place in the world where sinners are not under the judgment of God, where no law is, there is no transgression. But because the law is everywhere and deep in our moral conscience, we really do know right from wrong. yeah, we are transgressors because we've known the right, but we've done the wrong.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And we're setting this up. We want you to know you can be saved by grace through faith, trusting Christ. Hey, we're going to take phone calls. That number if you have a Bible question. 888-589-8840.

We'd love to hear your question today on Exploring the Word

We'd love to hear your question today here on Exploring the Word.

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>> Alex McFarland: Life goes bearers would culture or cultivate a particular area?

>> Bert Harper: Join Abraham Hamilton III as he presents the Biblical case for Cultural engagement. It's a powerful video resource from the American Family Association's Cultural Institute series. You and I create the culture of our country. Visit afastore.net.

>> Alex McFarland: I've seen shame. The kind that comes from mistakes. The kind, that won't go away. When I turned around they were right there to remind me. I've seen regret. The kind that messes with your head. The failures and the can't forget. But standing here now I'm thinking God, it's behind me Cause I've seen nail scarred hands reach out and wipe it all away.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Jesus Christ. Amen. Praise the Lord for who he is. 888-589-8840 we have lines that are open. We're going to Try to get to as many calls as we can. But, Alex, I know this is Wednesday, but are you preaching this, coming Sunday?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, this Sunday I have the privilege of being at Mount Pleasant Church. This is outside of Greensboro, North Carolina. And I've been, helping them out periodically for a few months. And so Mount Pleasant Church, Sunday school at 9:45. The worship service is at 11:00am and it's 4400 Alamance Church Road in the Greensboro area. How about you, Bert?

>> Bert Harper: Where will you be?

>> Alex McFarland: Cindy?

>> Bert Harper: I'll be at Ozark Baptist Church. I'm interim pastor there. I'm going into about, let me see, about 10 or 11 weeks I've been preaching there. And it's looking forward to it. It's out there. You can Google it and find Ozark Baptist Church, and you can come there if you want to. 11 o' clock, I'll be preaching, the word of God. Looking forward to it. But we've got people that's called in, Alex, with questions. Are you ready?

>> Alex McFarland: Let's do it. The number, by the way, is 8885-8988-4088-5889-8840. If you have a Bible question, we'd love to hear from you.

>> Bert Harper: Tim in Ohio. Tim, thank you for calling.

>> Caroline: Hey, fellow, thanks for taking my call. Longtime listener and frequent caller.

When Israel was reestablished as a nation, Democrat President Truman was in office

So I want to discuss May 14th. When Israel was reestablished as a nation, Democrat President Truman was in office. And when everything was signed, the lead rabbi in Israel told President Truman, you were knit in your mother's womb and God is using you as an instrument to bring this day. They said that President Truman was so overcome with emotions that he began weeping. Doesn't it also say, I think in the Psalms that whoever protects the mother, the mother will be attacked by Satan? And whoever protects the mother, Is there any relationship today to certain political parties or politicians with agendas that become anti Israel? Why don't they remember President Truman and what he did?

>> Bert Harper: Okay, I'm going to do this real quick. We get to everything else. Tim, listen. He had a biblical knowledge, a biblical base, and, what's lacking in so many of our government, the people in offices, they do not have that. When I was in school back in the 60s, I want to tell you that part of the 70s, the Bible was a part of what we looked at and thought about asking blessings. When you take that away, it's a lot to overcome. I agree with somebody. Yes, it's in the home. Yes, it is. But yet when you have ah, parts of the community that you know, encourage that and reinforce that. Alex, it builds it up.

>> Alex McFarland: Doesn't really does. And you know the 1960s were such a time of change that you know really up until about fdr, the, the nation had been somewhat unified in terms of protecting American interests and economic conservatism. And every dollar in C was backed up by a corresponding amount of gold in circulation. But some things happened. Do you know really I'm sad to say during Woodrow Wilson we began to get more politically liberal and then under fdr, more and more socialist. Although fdr, you know he, when talking to the servicemen as commander in chief, you know FDR would use Christian terminology quite a bit. But let me just say this. After TRUMAN in the 40s and during the Eisenhower years in the 50s, I think the 1960s were such a time of philosophical change. I mean there was the you know, getting prayer out of schools and taking away the posting of the Ten Commandments. And if you look, I mean Bert, what America was in 1960 versus what America was and was becoming by 1970, I would argue there's rarely been a 10 year period of so much philosophical and spiritual change. And you look where we are now in 2025. And you know people, conservative Christians of old that were Democrats, like fdr, Democrat, they would not recognize the Democrat party today, would they?

>> Bert Harper: When you start down a slippery slope, it's hard to put on the brakes. And that's what has happened. Tim, thank you. Let's go to Tennessee. Chris, thank you for calling.

We're hearing about a lot of Jews that are turning to Christ

>> Caroline: Hey guys, I just want to start out. I think I'll give you all the Isaiah 11:12. Anyway, I just want to say Happy birthday to Israel today because they turned 77 years old. This is prophecy because these. Ezekiel prophesied about the retribution and the restoration of, of Israel that started in Acts 2. We saw the spirit come back down on these people and they started to started the times ticking. The end times ticking. What does Daniel say? He said 70 weeks. We're seeing all this play out today. And what I was talking to a Jew guy the other day, a Jewish believer and I asked him, I said let me ask you a question. What causes the people of the Jewish people not to believe in Christ? He said well I'm going to tell you something. I said what's that? He goes to the Jewish person, they think that Christianity has gotten rid of, abolished the Torah so they don't follow Christianity. So he said. I said well what Changed your heart? He said, someone read to me Matthew 5:17 through 19. Then they read Isaiah 53 to him. Then they read, Ephesians 2:15, where it talks about, abolishing the, enmity of the. Of the, ordinances. And he explained to me, he says, let me tell you something, he said in Jewish talk, he said, over there, they are in the town mode. The town mode tells them everything about the Torah, and they don't even believe the first. They take that Torah, and that is their Bible. It's not. It's not our Bible to say they're relying on that law. That Jewish law is that town move. And we see Paul trying to get that out of these Judahites.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. You bet. Barely. Go ahead, your question. I know you had one. We are celebrating their birthday. Go ahead. Were you question?

>> Caroline: Well, I didn't have one. I just wanted to Call me.

>> Bert Harper: Okay. Well, man, I appreciate. Listen, we're. We're seeing a lot of Jews, and I. We're hearing about a lot of Jews that are turning to Christ. And, that's exciting, too. And, hey, we want more. And, you know, Alex, you've talked about it. You talked about some people saying there's more Christian Jewish people in Israel now than there's ever been. So we're trusting God to keep on working with them, aren't we?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, we are. And to those, like the caller said that just, you know, want to read the Old Testament, which is wonderful. I love the Old Testament, but I think about John 5. 39, where Jesus said, search the Scriptures for they testify of me. And, yeah, I do think it takes the Holy Spirit to open the blind eyes, but when you are open to it, you can see Jesus on every page.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

I've always thought that bishop and pastor were one in the same

Let's go to North Carolina. Douglas, thank you for calling. Yes, sir.

>> Alex McFarland: How y' all doing today?

>> Bert Harper: Doing well.

>> Alex McFarland: Good.

>> Caroline: Great.

>> Alex McFarland: I have just one simple question, brothers. I've always thought that the term bishop and pastor were one in the same. Is that true or not?

>> Bert Harper: Okay. the words are different, and, they have a little bit different context. bishop is overseer. That's what it means in the Greek. Pastor is more. It's the word shepherding and teaching. But, Alex, the pastor ought to be the overseer of the flock, and he also should be feeding the flock as the pastor shouldn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, that's true. The word for bishop is presbyteros. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Episcopal, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: Yes, it is.

>> Alex McFarland: Overseer is Episcopal. And, the Greek word that's translated pastor, like you say, is really like a shepherd. Now, you know, I think one of the best ways to summarize it is Ephesians 4, 11, and 12, you know, that he gave pastors, teachers and evangelists for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry. There is the idea of oversight. the word, poiemen, is really to shepherd or to feed. And ideally, a senior church pastor does both. There's an administrative component and a spiritual feeding component.

>> Bert Harper: There really is. And listen, I did not know that when I first heard those terms, but when I took Greek in college and I started looking at those words, I said, okay, it does help to know some of these words, what they were in the original languages. And you, see them. I would say they're, they're. I want to use this word, Alex. They're knit together. They should be knit together in one person. thank you, Douglas.

Many pastors say that Jesus is coming back for his bride

Let's go to Arkansas. Melville, thank you for calling. Turn your radio off. Melville. There was a song. Turn your radio on. But on. Exploring the Word. It is turning radio off. Go ahead, Melville.

>> Caroline: Can you, I think it's off. Okay. I've read the Bible many times, and I have heard many pastors say that Jesus is coming back for his bride. I've searched that out, and it's not true. According to the Word nor strongest concordance, there's not one scripture that says Jesus is coming back for his bride. It says he's coming back for his body without spot and blemish. In Colossians, it says that the church is the body of Christ. And, then over in, Thessalonians, it says the man of sin cannot be revealed till he, the Holy Spirit, is taken up. So the church is always masculine. And the scripture, you know those scriptures, the Lord says he will be a father, a husband to the widow, but he won't be a wife to the widower. He's always masculine. So anyway, when they get up to the Bema state, apparently the church, the female part, is taken out of the body of Christ the same way Eve was taken out of Adam and they go into the marriage supper. I can't understand how come the churches and the pastors all preaching that he's coming back for his bride.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, Alex, let me see. Jesus, talked about this about coming back, and he uses the illustration of the, you know, bride being ready. is Melville got a point or is she missing something?

>> Alex McFarland: You think well, in second Corinthians 11, verse two. And I appreciate it. We want to be, you know, accurate and everything. all right, second. Corinthians 11:2. Paul talks about this. That the Corinthian church would be presented as a chaste virgin bride to Christ. so the analogy of Jesus being the groomsman and the church being the bride, that's kind of what Paul alludes to. But Ephesians 5, 22, 33, Paul is, comparing the relationship between Christ and the church to a husband and wife. Husbands. Verse 25 of Ephesians 5. Husbands, love your wives. Even as Christ also loved the church. Church. And gave himself for it. Now, Ephesians 5:27, that he might present it to himself. A glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing. the unblemished bride. So, I would say those are the two key passages comparing the bride of Christ to the bride of a godly husband. The Ephesians 5 and the Second Corinthians, 11. one last thing, though. In Revelation 19:7. 9, it speaks of the church as, quote, the wife of the Lamb. So, yes, there are masculine, pronouns. But, yeah, the Bible does call the church. I mean, the wife of the Lamb, the bride of Christ. but I think it's there.

>> Bert Harper: I do, too. Let me give you this. God. It's like the names of Jesus. He is so huge, so big that they have different names. Lilu Valley. Wonderful counselor. All of these. When it comes to the church Paul uses, it's like a building. He talks about the foundation, but he also talks about the body. So when, you look at this, there's different words that talk about the same body. And so I think that's the case here.

Let's go to Diane. Diane in Arkansas. Yeah, here it is. Go right ahead

Let's go to Diane. Yeah, here it is. Diane in Arkansas. Diane, thank you for calling. Yeah, hi.

>> Caroline: Thank you for taking my call.

>> Bert Harper: Go right ahead.

>> Caroline: I'm.

I wonder what you guys think about praying to the Holy Spirit

I, wonder what you guys think about praying to the Holy Spirit.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, listen, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, three in one. Alex, when you pray. I've prayed Holy Spirit, you know, fill me. Will your spirit do a work in me? you know, what do you say?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, scholars often talk about, God is indivisible or immutable. And because of the indivisible nature of the Trinity, I would say it would be fine to pray to the Holy Spirit, because, you know, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, pray to the Son, pray to the Spirit. we're all talking about the one God, unchanging inseparable, indivisible.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Darrell in Texas was going to ask a question. He was. He, either was cut off and his was, how can evangelicals pray for the Pope? What would you say about that, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, I pray for anybody, to make sure they know the Lord and make sure that they are led by the Holy Spirit and in their belief and in their words and in their actions, following God's word. And you, know, pray for the church to be united, and united under Jesus, the Son of God, and scripture, the word of God. But I pray for a whole lot of people that I don't know that I agree with everything they say or do. But, we can always pray for people to make sure that they're saved. And certainly whether it's the Pope or the next door neighbor, I wish that for all people we do.

>> Bert Harper: And, we're asking God to do a great work. We talked a good bit about Israel. We've talked a good bit about revival. And I just want to tell you, the Bible says if my people. Now, I want to tell you that was Israel. But today it is those that know Jesus Christ as Savior. We need to seek God with all of our. Seek his face. We need to turn from our wicked ways. We need to humble ourselves before him. And Alex, he'll hear us. And we're asking God, send your great revival. Well, we'll be back tomorrow. We'll be in Romans, part of chapter four, hopefully into chapter five. You don't want to miss it here on American Family Radio Network. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Romans 4:1-15: The Faith of Abraham