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>> Jeff Chamblee: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Are sinkholes mentioned in the Bible? Alex McFarland answers question

Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, a, trivia question that we might craft about the Bible in modern terminology. Are sinkholes mentioned in the Bible? You know what a sinkhole is? You know, sadly, sometimes they'll be, the ground will give way and maybe in the middle of a highway there'll be a big sinkhole, very deep, and it's dangerous. People have died falling into sinkholes. Well, we could ask where might that be in the Bible? I'll talk about it in a moment, but this is Exploring the word. Alex McFarland along with Bert Harper. And we are in the Old Testament Book of Numbers. We're going to be around about chapter 16 today. And Bert, it's good to be in this wonderful biblical book. Brent Austin had the idea that we studied the Book of Numbers. And I'm glad we are because even though it's a book you don't hear that much about, like maybe the Gospels or Isaiah or Romans or something, this book is rich with gospel truth and practical Christian application. So I'm glad that we chose to do it.

>> Bert Harper: I agree with you. And again, you hear numbers, and it's not named that because of the two censuses that were taken, one at the beginning and one at the end, so that they would know the number of fighting men. And so. But between those two bookends, there are several things that do take place that really, as you said, the gospel, I would say discipleship, life. And here's, if you look for a theme, one of the themes. I better not say the theme. One of the themes of the Book of Numbers, it would be two, and they're kind of combined murmuring and rebellion. And we're going to see one of those rebellions today and see the response to it. So. Alex, I agree. God has, ministries for everyone. Now here's the idea. If you are fulfilling God's calling in your life in service, you're at the highest calling in your life. Okay. And not desiring, oh, I would like much better to be something else. I'm reminded of what Paul said, when he was talking about the gifts. He said, you better watch out. I don't need this tongue. I don't need this hand. I don't need this, you know, I have no need of you. Yes, we do. And when, when we do our part and it fitly joins together. It's amazing what can be accomplished, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it is. It's amazing. And like you said, one of the things, themes of numbers, is really God's condemnation of rebellion. So, you know, yesterday we talked about, the laws of people and making an offering if there's an unintentional sin. There's severe, severe warnings about intentional sin and those being cut off, who sin defiantly, willfully, intentionally. There's I felt like chapter 15 yesterday was touching in that there is God's open arms to, the stranger passing through, who was not a Jewish child of the covenant. And yet there was an opportunity for them to hear about and know about the true and living God. But in chapter 16, we're going to see some people. Korah Dathan Abiram, not to be confused with Abraham, but a B I R, a M Abiram. They, they rise up against Moses and Eryn. And they kind of give this ultimatum. It's a rebellion. Moses says the Lord will choose. And the ground swallows up all the men of Korah. Pretty, somber stuff here, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It is. And a lot of times, deception is one of the great, great, secrets or plans of Satan. And they come with, quote, something that they feel like is legitimate, that, that. Moses, you're taking too much on yourself. We, we think you ought to divide up some of this leadership. And guess who should be receiving some of that? Us.

>> Caroline: You.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, and they had 250 people. They had really. I mean this is. I know it's not the church. The church would be birthed at Pentecost. But this, this was one of the early times of people that try to divide and conquer. And there have been splits throughout history, haven't there?

>> Bert Harper: There really has, and it continues today. And there's nothing new under the sun. but verse seven, they come to him. And you may want to go back, but, let me, I think ve, verse three might need to say something. They gathered together against Moses and Eryn. You take too much upon yourselves. For all the congregation is holy. You know, you're not above us, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the congregation of the Lord? Now Alex, who has exalted Moses himself? or is there a higher calling?

>> Alex McFarland: Moses didn't do it. In fact, Moses was the textbook example of what I would call a reluctant leader. But he was in the position. He was, he was endued with the authority he had by God, you know, so, so when Korah and the sons of Ishar and Kohath and Levi, Dathan and Abiram, they're. They're wanting to square off against Moses. It's really their, their rebellion is against the one who called Moses, who is God.

>> Bert Harper: Exactly. And Moses, he meets them where they are and he says, Verse 8 here. Now, you sons of Levi, it is a small thing to you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel to bring you here to himself to do the work of the tabernacle of the Lord, to stand before the congregation to serve them, and that he has brought you near to himself and you and all your brethren, the, the sons, of Levi with you. And are you seeking the priesthood also? Okay, here it is. The real motive. They were kind of tired of being, what, playing what they considered second fiddle. The priests were the real ones. The Levites were the ones that aided them. Help them. Staff member to them.

Alex: Moses summons two sons of Eliab seeking priesthood

And, here he says, are you seeking the priesthood also? And Alex, again, this is, you know, something that they do. They, they, you know, they want more than they have and they don't like the position God has placed them. They feel like they deserve more. And again, I really believe. And you brought this up the last two days. I think, it really starts with a lack of gratitude for what God has done for them. already, hasn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: It really has. It really has. And you know, Moses summons them. and basically, like in, verse 11, you know, he's talking. In verse 12, Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab. But they said, we will not come up. We're not going to meet with you. You know, isn't that something? I've heard stories. I, know a pastor that took a, took a wonderful little church. And after the installation service, there was an anonymous note under his door that said, look, you don't have authority. Nothing happens here unless it runs by, you know, this one or that one from a certain family. And so preacher, your preachers come and go, but this family is the, the leaders and don't do anything without their approval. I call it the church boss. Bert, have you ever known churches? And it may not be a small church in the country, it could even be a big church. you know, in an Urban area, but some churches. And it really does, I believe, restrain the work of the Holy Spirit. They'll have a church boss. Have you ever heard of such?

>> Bert Harper: I have, I love, you know, I've not only heard them, I've known them. And, so here you find out, but you also have those that are wannabes. Okay, yeah, these are wannabes. And, again, a power grab. Control, jealousy, the whole bit fits into this. And so they come up, and again, one thing I noticed here, Alex, I don't know if you noticed it or not. in chapter 16, verse one, it talks about the guys you're talking about. And then. And on. O, I don't know. That's a funny name. On. And, sons of Reuben, he's dropped out. He may have called himself and said, you know, I don't need to be a part of this gang. And sometimes that happens. I bring that up because, somebody might present something to someone and they say, yeah, that's right. But then they start seeing the illegitimacy of their argument. They start seeing what they're really like. Man, don't go with that crowd, Alex. And on. Seems like he dropped out. he's not mentioned in the, judgment. You know, we just catch him here, and then all of a sudden, he's not there. Now I'm just speculating that he could have dropped out. He may have stayed, but not been a leader. But anyway, if you ever, anyone who's listening, you find yourself, ah, and you say, man, yeah, something needs to be done. But when you see what's being done is not right, it is against God and going, man, correct yourself quickly. That's my thoughts on it, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Well said. Well said. Verse 15. Then Moses was very angry and said to the Lord, do not respect their offering. I have not taken one donkey from them, nor have I hurt one of them. So Moses is pleading to the Lord for help here. And, Moses said to Korah, tomorrow, you and all your company be present before the Lord. You and they as well as Eryn. And let each take his censer and put incense in it. And each of you bring the sensor before the Lord. 250 censors, both you and Eryn, each with his sensor. So they've got, you know, in their camp to divide and, really undermine Moses and Eryn. They've got a couple of hundred people, and the censor was part of worship. You know, they would wave that, and the, incense would be an aroma that would, invoke the Presence of the Holy Spirit. So, you know, they're wanting to intrude into the priesthood. Well, Moses is going to give an opportunity for them to, attempt to perform a priestly function. But Moses says, lord, don't accept this. And indeed, God is not going to accept it because it was. It was not, religion, but rebellion.

>> Bert Harper: Wow. Not religion, but rebellion. And, what does true religion do, according to James? True religion is very humbling. you know, and it's doing things that possibly nobody notices. What is it? Taking care of the widows and the orphans? That doesn't get you a lot of notice. You know, it's not like the priest and everybody's watching the preacher that's preaching the sermon and the different ones. It's that person out there caring and serving others. Pure religion is this. And it also mentions watching your tongue too. So, Alex, I, think that was real. If it's not pure religion, a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, where humility is a part of it and servanthood is a part of it.

Preborn Ministries fights for the babies. If we've learned anything from this election

I think you're coming up on something of look at me. Which causes us to be rebelling against God, who does what, loves humility and hates pride. And, I think this is a classic example of this pride.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, indeed, indeed. You remember in Galatians 5, and I would encourage people to read Galatians 5, beginning at verse 19. Really 1923. But it says, the works of the flesh are evident. In other words, undeniable. Now, we're gonna. We'll come back. I know we've got a break, but among those works, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger. there's a lot to learn here, isn't it, Bert?

>> Bert Harper: There is, and we're going to come back and look at it. And they're going to meet their demise, as Alex called it, in a sinkhole. You don't want to miss it.

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>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Just because I'm a believer doesn't mean I don't forget Then my heart is a deceiver there's doubts in my head But I belong to a redeemer who's not finished with me yet I could break it all and he'd make it all new that's the gospel truth Amen.

Bert and Alex discuss biblical rebellion in the Book of Numbers

>> Bert Harper: This is Bert and Alex on exploring the Word. And we're in the Book of Numbers, and we're talking about a mass rebellion with some people, severe. And, they had their leaders that came forth and, they were presenting to Moses, said, we think you've taken up on yourself too much. God's blessed all of us. We got as much as you have. And, Moses looks at, oh, you're not satisfied with what you have. You want to be one of the priests. And they are starting to bring this. And Moses goes to the Lord, and, God guides him. And, Alex, when I look at this, and, Moses is setting them up, and, I'm not saying he's setting them up for failure, but when you're in rebellion against God's man and God is there and God's plan, sooner, or later, that failure will happen. It either happened then or later. but their failure and their demise. I know you said a sinkhole, but they're digging. I'm using my analogy. They're digging their ditch pretty deep, aren't they?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, they really are. And if you look back to 13 and 14, I mean, this is really serious because they're accusing Moses of being malicious and evil. You know, is it a small thing that you have brought us out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness, that you should keep acting like a prince over us? So there are three things they said. Look, we had it so good in Egypt, and you brought us out of that, and you're just on a murderous errand to kill us in the wilderness, and you're a prince lording over us. And then it says, moreover, well, it says, will you put out the eyes of these Men, will we not come up? In other words, we're not going to stand for it. Are you going to blind us or harm us? Moses was angry and, so this rebellion, they're, they're drawing a line in the sand. And Moses fell on his face and prayed. But here's what he, the Lord spoke to Moses and Eryn saying, separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. God. God is basically saying in verse 21, you better get back. Yep, step back. Because this, team of rebels and dividers splitting the nation, they're, they're about to get it.

>> Bert Harper: They really are. One thing it really. And I just noticed it when you were reading it. Now I want to get your comment on it. Notice it is a small verse. 13. It is a small thing that you brought us out of this land flowing with milk and honey. Again, talking about Egypt. Now let, me just share with you. That is usually the case for a few when you're in a place like Egypt. In other words, there's those that are sellouts, and I'm just going to use that word, to make it easier on themselves so they can have the advantage over the others that they could care less about. Alex. You know, like socialism, communism. There's those at the top that rule and they get the things they want and everything else. But guess what happens to those underlings? They don't care about them. they just want to take from those that have and give it to those. But they want to take theirs in the first place. I don't know if that's exactly the case, but, I know they were trying to say, hey, you've brought us out now. You can't take us in and using land of milk and honey. But that's usually the truth under, you know, man, when you do it man's way, you're going to have those at the top and they're not going to care about those underneath. That's what made Christianity and the spread into Western civilization so much different. Alex. the priesthood of the believer. Let everyone say, hey, everyone's important in the sight of God. Not just the king and not just the rulers, but, but each and every person is important. I may be reading into that too much, but it crossed my brain anyway.

>> Alex McFarland: I think it's right. And you know, in a way, this is almost like the plague of the death angel in Egypt because they go like verse 24, speak to the congregations, say, get away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. And verse 26, he spoke to the congregation saying, depart now from the tents of these wicked men. Touch nothing of their tents, lest you be consumed in all their sins. So they got away from around the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. And you know, so people are separating. verse 28, Moses said, by this you will know that the Lord has sent me to do all these works. I for I've not done them by my own will. If these men die naturally, like all men, or if they are visited by the common fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. In other words, if these guys die of old age, I'm not the true prophet and the leader. But if the Lord creates a new thing and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, and then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord. I mean, the, the line is drawn in the sand. These rebels, and they're ungodly. They don't know the true and living God. And they certainly don't have the discernment to recognize the, the man God has raised up. In this case, Moses. And that's why God said, get away from their tents, because even their tents and belongings are going to get swallowed up in the Lord in the earth as well.

>> Bert Harper: They are notice rejected the Lord. you know, that's what they were doing. They were trying to disguise it as rejecting and say, Moses is not the leader. God hadn't appointed him, he's appointed himself. But they're really rejecting the Lord. And then it came to pass as he finished speaking all these words that the ground split apart under them. The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit. The earth closed over them and they perished from among the congregation. Wow, that had to be something. Now what really is. And the earth closed back over them. Now, you know, you can explain. Okay. There's just there on this fault. And it happened. But then after they fell down and the earth coming back together, the miraculousness of this, what he said, is amazing. then all Israel were around them, fled at their crying, lest the earth swallow us up also. Amen. And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering incense. Then the Lord spoke to Moses saying, tell Eleazar the son of Eryn, the priest, to pick up the censers out of the blaze, for they are holy and scattered the fire some distance away. Alex, I want to make this comment and throw it back to you.

The Bible is still the Bible even though Satan quotes it, right?

What happens is these men were not holy, but the sensors that they were carrying had been appointed and anointed by God for ministry and servanthood. I'm gonna make this statement, see what you get. We've got men that sometimes preach the word, but they're, using it sometimes for advantages that they should not get. It does not diminish the truth that they tell and speak and share. My.

>> Alex McFarland: That's true.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: You. The Bible is still the Bible even though Satan quotes it, right?

>> Bert Harper: That's it.

>> Alex McFarland: And there, there are fallen humans. I mean, they've tried to twist the Bible to legitimize homosexuality, God forbid. Or, those, have tried to twist the Bible to somehow defend abortion, God forbid. But the Bible is still the Bible, even though the false teachers who twist and misuse the Bible should not be heeded. Bert, I looked up something like in verse 33, so they and all those with them went down alive into the pit. I, looked up that word in the Hebrew. It's the word Sheol, okay? Which is very often translated the grave. I looked in a commentary, they said, in this context, the way Sheol is used, they fell into the pit. They fell into hell. Isn't that sad, folks? The earth opened up and do you know what? another subject for another day perhaps. Dr. Henry Morris, great creationist, PhD from the University of Virginia. No, I think it was a PhD from Virginia Polytechnic Institute. But, I would highly recommend, Henry Morris wrote the Genesis record, He wrote the Revelation record, and he wrote the Defenders Study Bible, a fantastic apologetics Bible. But he talked about how, hell he believed was in the heart of the earth, but there would be a time when the spirits in hell would be cast into the lake of fire and, you know, the earth opening up and swallowing these, these ungodly rebels, and they fell into the pit. The pit of hell kind of lends credence to the idea that, hell at this point, the realm of the unsaved dead, is in the heart of the earth. But the people said, please, you know, we don't want to fall into the pit also. So they get up the censors because they are holy, artifacts for use in the tabernacle. The Lord spake to Moses saying, tell Eleazar the son of Eryn the priest, to pick up the censors out of the blaze, for they are holy. And Scatter the fire some distance away. In other words, even the incense and the fire they were trying to, strike, you know, get that away from the people and the censors of these men who sinned against their own souls. Verse 38. That's pretty strong. Let them be m made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar, because they presented them before the Lord. Therefore they are holy, and they shall be a sign unto the children of Israel. Bert, comment if you would. These men, the rebels, they sinned against their own souls. I've not even really exegeted that and looked into it, and there's a heaviness about it that strikes me.

>> Bert Harper: It is. And once you get there, I think there's other examples of that, and I've used these before in the NewSong Testament, Ananias and Sapphira, they lied against the Holy Spirit knowingly sinning against their own souls, bringing on their own condemnation. They're the ones. And, you know, and it is so true, those rebellion, that rejection of God. Notice what it said when it says, they have rejected the lord in verse 30. You're sinning against your own soul, your own eternity, going into the wrong area rather than going where God would love for you to go. So the admonition that I get, that I would receive, the Bible says, today's the day of salvation. Be saved. Today you are sinning against your own soul. When you delay or when you say, I'm going to put it off for a convenient season. No, today's the day of salvation because we're not assured what a day may bring. So, Alex, these decisions are really against their own soul. And, you know, the Bible talks about it, about adultery being a sin against the body. In other words, it's going to take its toll on the body when you don't do it God's way. So not obeying God is destructive toward your body, it's destructive towards your soul. It's a sin against yourself. Isn't really is.

>> Alex McFarland: It really is. I was, you know, we, we frequently quote Adrian Rogers. And I remember he would often say, delayed obedience is disobedience. And, remember, you and I have taught through the book of Acts a time or two. In Acts 24, Felix told Paul, I will hear you at a more convenient season. The time to respond to the gospel is the moment you realize you need Jesus, you need to be born again. The time to get your house in order and obey, maybe even as a believer. But there are things that God wants you to do. Differently. The time to turn and change. Repent, believe, trust, obey. It's the minute you become aware of this.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Do not delay.

>> Alex McFarland: Procrastination against the overtures of the Holy Spirit is a very dangerous thing. But so, they, they do what they're told. They. They take these sensors, ah. And beat them into plates on the altar. As a reminder, says, as a memorial to the children of Israel. Yeah, a reminder. But 41 through 50, the people are still going to complain. And the next day, God has done a great thing. God has validated and vindicated Moses and Eryn. And yet, children of Israel, they said, you have killed the people of the Lord. They blame Moses for the repercussions of the sin of these people. the fickle human heart, it surprises me. And yet it doesn't surprise me.

>> Bert Harper: It does the next again. So here it is. what's going to happen? They're going to rebel. And, Eryn, in his interceding, in his, position as priesthood, saves many lives. But guess what? 14,700 die. Besides those earlier. Notice verse 15. We're coming closer to.

Aaron stood between that plague and the other people

>> Alex McFarland: It's going to be a plague.

>> Bert Harper: It is. It's a plague. So Eryn returned to Moses at the door of the tabernacle of meeting, for the plague had stopped. Eryn had interceded and stood between that plague and the other people. And Alex, Eryn, I know he made some mistakes, but he still, he got a lot of things right too, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: He really did. I've kind of been hard on Eryn.

>> Bert Harper: I. I was going to try to help out there. Go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you. But yes, you know, he's a keeper.

>> Bert Harper: He is. And again, these people die. And again. Now, everybody over 20 years old, they're going to be dead in the next 38 years except Caleb and Joshua. And this one took a toll real quickly. 14,700 in that one day. Well, Alex, you ready to take phone calls?

>> Alex McFarland: We are. The number is triple 858-9884. You know, Bert, I can't wait to get to chapter 17.

>> Bert Harper: it's awesome.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, That'll be Monday, but stay tuned after this break. Your calls and your questions don't go away.

>>  : The AFR app is a powerful tool, but it does have limitations. You can't use it to change the oil in your vehicle or get rid of carpet stains.

>> Alex McFarland: It won't walk the dog, won't pick

>>  : up the dry cleaning or take the kids to practice. But while you're doing those things, you can listen to your favorite AFR Content through the app on your phone, smart device or Roku. Just go to your app store or visit afr.net listen to AFR wherever you go with the AFR app.

>> Bert Harper: Oh, Lord, give me eyes to see

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: that what I need don't cost a thing. You feel my life.

Alex Bishop will be speaking in Wichita, Kansas, on Saturday

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Hey, the number. If you've got a Bible question or a comment, it's 4858-98840. I want to give a big shout out to our friends in Wichita, Kansas. That's where I am right now, dear. brother named Grant Garwood has put together an event called Honest Questions. And, I'll be speaking Saturday evening at the Cozine C O Z I N E Cuzine Memorial Events Center. 6:30. And we're going to talk about the problem of evil and suffering. how do we reconcile the goodness of God with the pain, the sin, the fallenness of this world? And there will be live Q and A if you're in the Wichita, Kansas area. But also if you would keep me in prayer because I'll be speaking in two schools tomorrow. So, Bert, we just have such great listeners everywhere. And I'm very honored to be out here in Kansas for the Honest Questions weekend of apologetics.

>> Bert Harper: We'll pray it goes well, Alex. We really do.

At least 10 people were shot in Baton Rouge; two are critical

And, speaking of listeners, one of our stations is covering Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And right before we came on, Jim Stanley was the first one that let me know about it. There's a shooting there. And the last word I had, at least 10 were shot. Two were critical. So all of those that are people there in Baton Rouge, we're praying for you. We wanted to let you know that. And, asking God to man. Lawlessness is everywhere. A lot of things saying, is this the time of the Lord's return? Well, he could come at any time. He could have come, but we don't know when it is. But I am. Lawlessness is one of those areas that you're concerned about.

>> Alex McFarland: Bert, I know we've got a lot of calls, but we've ministered a lot in Baton Rouge, had a big conference down there. Would you pray, and just pray that the spirit of God would restrain evil and heal in this situation. Please pray.

>> Bert Harper: Father, I thank you that we can call upon you what. What you have given us, breaking down that wall of petition so we could come to you directly as. As a. Your child, as we've received Christ. And right now I'm praying, but I. Father, I sense that there's people, right in their cars, at their desk, in their tractors. Right now, truckers. We're praying for those, that are in Baton Rouge that have been shot, those that are critical. We're praying for some great, medical care given to them, Father. And you would care for them. And I do pray, as Alex said, this evil that, the rampage of the ones that are meeting together and going in the streets and destroying vehicles and stores, Father, we are praying that that restraint would be put upon them. but we're praying right now. You'd be with those in Baton Rouge. We know what happened in Shreveport Sunday with the death of so many of those children, God, our hearts are hurt. And we're asking you to do a work in their heart and their lives. And, Alex, him at Wichita, and what he'll be sharing about. Why does evil help when God is good, Father? It demonstrates sin and how far it will go. And as we studied today, they rebelled, Ah. Against their own soul, Father. They brought judgment on themselves, and that's what's happening now. So, Father, I pray that you would help them right now. In Jesus name. Amen.

It says in the Bible, women are not supposed to be pastors

Okay, well, let's answer these questions here, and we're going to do it as thoroughly and quickly as we can. It's Nate in Mississippi. Nate, go right ahead. Thank you for calling. Nate, are you there? Hello? Yeah, go right ahead, Nate.

>> Caroline: Yes.

>> Caroline: Okay.

>> Caroline: I was listening again, in the morning, and she was interviewing a, pastor from Fort Worth. He was saying that women are not supposed to be. It says in the Bible, women are not supposed to be pastors.

>> Bert Harper: okay, you dropped off Alex. We got a lot of calls. Answer. And if I want to put anything in, I will, but you go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, this falls into the subject of ecclesiology or the structure of the church. Ecclesiology. And no, no, the senior pastor role is male. The NewSong Testament says that, the. The. The overseer should be the husband of one wife. And I'm, I'm not being flippant, but there's no female that's ever lived that can, quote, be the husband of one wife. And really, throughout 2,000 years of church history, I mean, it was never up for discussion. Now, I want to be very clear. Women in men ministry, absolutely. Even hyper conservatives like John MacArthur and Norm Geisler would say, you know, women in all facets of ministry. But in the individual local church, the senior pastoral has been male. And, I'll tell you another reason the red flag goes up. The only time this ever even became an issue was during the feminist movement of the 1970s that pushed a philosophy called egalitarianism. Now, egalitarianism is manifesting itself today in transgenderism, the idea that there is no difference between male and female. So males and females are equal in worth and value and dignity and salvation. But we are unique in call and function. And like it or not, the word of God and church history itself, the senior pastor role is male.

>> Bert Harper: Today, we discussed Korah and them. They wanted to be priests. That wasn't their position. God has those areas at certain people, and they cover those certain areas, and that's one of them. Thank you, Nate.

Bert says bad things have been done in the name of religion

Let's go to Arkansas. Karen, go right ahead. Karen, are you there?

>> Caroline: Oh, yes. Hello.

>> Bert Harper: Yes, go ahead with your question. Thank you for calling.

>> Caroline: from Arkansas. And, I just met somebody who said he didn't want to hear anything about God. I've been a Christian for many years, and it just stunned me a little bit. And he said, because too many bad things have been done in the name of God. And I was wondering, is there any short answer for that?

>> Bert Harper: Okay, go ahead, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, the existence of the counterfeit doesn't negate the reality of the authentic. Counterfeit money exists. There's also real legal tender. There are fraudulent, people that practice medicine and malpractice. But there are also legitimate doctors and nurses. And yes, just because bad things have been done in the name of religion doesn't mean that Jesus didn't rise from the dead. He did rise from the dead. And one last thing. Let me just say this. I've interviewed many, many, many atheists, and there's an atheist named Bruce Scheiman. He's a philosophy professor, claims to be an atheist, but he, as an atheist, wrote a book on how many good things religion has done. I know there was David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, and there was Jim Jones and Guyana, and there's Islam and jihadist terrorists. But, Bert, I think it also needs to be pointed out that every single day, 10 million good things are done. we give a cup of cold water in Jesus's name. One last thing. $1.7 trillion will be spent on benevolence and charity in America this year and internationally. 85 cents out of every benevolent dollar comes from the pockets of Christians. So it might be glib and easy to say, oh, religion has done bad things. Well, Jesus is still risen. And in the name of Jesus, in Christianity, every day, much, much good is done.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. He can't deny the testimony you have, Karen. Live it and share it. Let him see it, Let him hear it. The God's made a difference in my life. The other thing, Scripture. Scripture is scripture. Now, if you have to tell it where it is, he might recognize it. But using scripture without it being referenced of being from James or being from John, it's still scripture. So don't be afraid to share scripture with him. But you're not necessarily letting him know you're quoting the Bible. The word of God is the sword of the spirit. Sharper and it can penetrate. So that's a thought as well.

Alex: I was wondering if you were familiar with New Apostolic Reformation

Let's go to North Carolina and talk to Thom. Thom, go right ahead.

>> Caroline: Yes, I appreciate you taking my call, and, thank you for what you do. I was wondering if you were familiar with the NAR or nation, a NewSong Apostolic Reformation, and if you are, if you could enlighten me some on that. And I appreciate it.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you, Thom. Go ahead, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, well, the NewSong Apostolic Reformation, is a movement, and on the one hand, look, if the gospel is being preached, I rejoice. You know, I don't want to be a killjoy. and I tend to support any movement of God, especially one that wants to influence the culture and, the areas of culture, for example, the government, education, business, the marketplace, law, judiciary, religion, the arts. sometimes it's called the Seven Mountain Mandate, sometimes it's called the engines that drive culture. Chuck Colson was big on this. That's great. The NewSong Apostolic Reformation says that we need to touch the areas of cultural influence. And I agree. We do. The only little red flag I've got, Bert, is that they believe in restoring the office of apostle and miracles. And here's the big trouble spot, getting new revelation. And let me just say this, and you know, I'm pretty much like D.L. moody. Any friend of Jesus is a friend of mine. But when you want to have new revelation that is, commensurate with the Bible. No, no, there is no more revelation. Now we proclaim the revelation that God has given, which is the 66 canonical books of the Bible. But with Revelation 22:21, the written revelation of God ended. And by the way, an apostle was one who had seen or been with the risen Jesus. I really don't believe there are apostles today, Bert. Now, there are disciples, but not apostles, Thom.

>> Bert Harper: We hope that helps. And, brother, serve the Lord and keep on serving him. Let's go to Ohio and talk to Todd. Todd, thank you for calling. Go right ahead.

>> Caroline: Hey, thank you for what you're doing. I appreciate what you do. I have a guy that I work with that says that the Protestant or the Christian beliefs in America didn't start until like the early 1900s. And he's a Catholic. And I don't know how really to deal with, the question. So I appreciate everything you guys do. I listen off air.

>> Bert Harper: Okay. Todd, did you get what he wants? Help with Alex there?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was, had the great, great privilege of being in Washington Monday, and Tuesday, well, and part of Wednesday to read the Bible. And, USA Today covered it and they said, you know, oh, it's problematic. The president read scripture. Oh, my goodness. And it said that this is based on the now disputed belief that America was founded on Christianity. And let me just say that the now disputed belief. It's not disputed. Christianity was intertwined in the colonies America since the 1500s. Honestly, the founders. The most quoted book was the Bible. 3154 times. The 56 signers of the Declaration quote the Bible from the Mayflower Compact, our first document of civil government. in 1620. Bert, where I'm from, down in North Carolina, Christians were here since 1587.

>> Bert Harper: Wow.

>> Alex McFarland: Missionaries were coming into South Carolina, the cradle of American evangelism, by 1580. And there were Anglicans and there were Baptists and there were Wesleyans and Methodists and Presbyterians. And by. This is just, frankly, very exciting. By the mid-1600s, missionaries were just fanning out all through the eastern seaboard and gave guess how many state constitutions mention God, the Bible or Christianity. 50 out of 50. So the idea that somehow Christianity and morality and Scripture is some upstart new idea, it's just, God bless them, but they don't know American history.

>> Bert Harper: Alex. Quote, quote, the second president, John Adams, about our Constitution, he, said

>> Alex McFarland: our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people only. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other. And listen what he said. Our Constitution and our laws would be like a whale tearing through a net if the people do not have morality and religion. George Washington, our first president, by the way, he said the future of the country depends on the Christian training of young people. End of quote.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, now that was in 1700, not in the 1900s.

>> Alex McFarland: Or you tell, not in the 1900s.

>> Bert Harper: And Thomas Jefferson would ride his horse to the Capitol for worship. yeah, that, that really got me as well.

Fire Away Friday is tomorrow, so get those questions ready

Hey, Kenneth from Texas. Sorry we did not get to you, but tomorrow is fire away Friday. Ah. And I say it's far away. I wouldn't I knew it wasn't far, but it's not far away. And Fire Away Friday is tomorrow, so get those questions ready. We're looking forward to it, Alex. Hope you have a great time there in Wichita, Kansas, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Hey, thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back tomorrow with Fire Away Friday. All the questions, all the hour. Tell somebody about exploring the word, but most of all, tell everybody about Jesus. M the views and opinions expressed in

>> Bert Harper: this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those

>> Alex McFarland: of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

>> Caroline: M.

The Price of Rebellion: Numbers 16

✍️ Episode References

American Family Radio
https://afr.net 

PreBorn Ministries
https://preborn.com 

Dr. Henry Morris
https://icr.org/henry-morris 

Adrian Rogers
https://www.lwf.org 

Galatians 5
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205