It's Fire Away Friday For July 31st!

Because of listeners like you, Preborn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies

>> : Because of listeners like you, PreBorn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies. Your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax deductible gift saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com afr it's fire Away Friday on Exploring the Word. This is your chance to ask us your Bible question at 858-98840. That's 888-589-8840. You can also email your [email protected] or visit facebook.com exploringtheword exploring the word. It's Fireaway Friday on American Family Radio.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, good evening everybody. We are live. Alex McFarland here on Fireaway Friday. The number if you've got a Bible question, it's 888-589-8840 toll free nationwide. 888-589-8840. We'll take any and all Bible questions, we'll do our very best to give you a good biblical factual answer. And we welcome everyone listening and with me is Dylan Burroughs, longtime friend and colleague, very, very frequent, ah, panelist here on Exploring the Word. Dylan, on this last day of July, welcome, to the program. It's good to have you back, brother.

>> Dillon: So good to be back with you as well. And I've been thinking of this show today and especially as I've been looking at 2 Timothy 2, 15 that reminds us, do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. We are excited to share answers to God's word with you. So please give us a call, if you would to start us off today at 888-589-8840.

And as you do, Alex, I'd love to hear a little bit about this conference you were just at. You were speaking at the Billy Graham Cove center on Apologetics with one of my favorite people, Dr. Gary Habermas. Sounds like a fabulous time. Tell us a little bit about it as we start today.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, thank you, Dylan. I give God the glory and I want to say a, ah, big thank you to hundreds of AFA listeners, many, many listeners to Exploring the Word that have been with us at the COVID the Billy Graham Training Center. I was there 7.17.19 teaching Daniel and Revel Bible prophecy. Then, since Monday, I've been there with just one of the greatest scholars in the world and he sends his regards to you, Dylan. Dr. Gary Habermas and he's been with us. And, you know, it was really quite a sacrifice for him to come because we scheduled this late last year. And then around the end of January, 1st of February, we were talking, and, his dear wife Eileen has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And. And, we have prayed for her on the air, and he sends his sincerest regards and thanks. and we need to keep praying for her. Eileen has pancreatic cancer. But even so, Dr. Habermas came and we had the great privilege, Dylan, of ministering to people. we talked about apologetics, and of course, Dr. Habermas talked very much about the resurrection of Christ, ancient evidence for the life of Christ. And we took a lot of questions. Dylan and Brent and Bert. I'm holding in my hands probably 200 questions, and maybe, we ought to write a book about them. But Dylan, thanks for asking. Another great friend and colleague that was there also sends their regards and their appreciation for this program. Joe Kerr. Joe and his wife are great Christian leaders. And again, I see calls coming in. I'm going to give that number again. It's 888-589-8840. But we'll be at the COVID next year. We'll keep you posted. Also, I'll say a very brief word about, Rick Metaxas, that'll be with us in a conference in South Carolina August 8th. And it's. It's free. You can come and hear Rick Metaxas, and we'll tell you more about that. But, Dylan, are you ready to, go to the phones and we'll begin to field some questions?

>> Dillon: Let's dive in.

Nathan: Good evening, sir. How are you doing today

>> Alex McFarland: All right, we're going to begin in Iowa. Nathan, in Iowa. Are you there, Nathan?

>> Speaker D: Yes, sir, I am.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, good evening. How are you today?

>> Speaker D: I'm doing well. Yourself?

>> Alex McFarland: Blessed. Very blessed. Thankful for your call.

How do you reconcile the thought of David with his sin with Bathsheba

what's your Bible question?

>> Speaker D: my Bible question is in regards to Daniel. not Daniel, David, who is like, how. How do you reconcile the thought of David, probably one of the greatest Bible characters of all time, and then one of his greatest sins, his sin with Bathsheba, yet he was still a man after God's own heart and righteousness was credited to him. M. There's. How do you reconcile those two thoughts of here's this great, awesome God and David with a great grievous sin against him, yet God still saw him as righteous. Like, just how do we live that out practically?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, great question. Let me cue this up a little bit. And this is in two Samuel chapters 11 and 12 in the old Testament. Dylan, and Nathan, fantastic question, because David, in addition to committing adultery with Bathsheba, David, arranged to have her actual husband, Uriah killed. And yet David is very much in the lineage of Christ. He's called a man after God's own heart, Israel's greatest king. I think it speaks of the great, great grace and mercy of God our Savior. But Dylan, do you have any comments on the very famous story of David and Bathsheba?

>> Dillon: Well, that's a good way to put it, and I love that you mentioned it that way. First. Kings 15 is very clear that David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite, the husband of Bathsheba in the story that you just mentioned. So the Bible is very clear that this was an exception to how David typically operated with the Lord. And a couple of ways you could look at this one. You can say he was a man after God's own heart, because when he was confronted with this sin, he did confess, he, he did repent, he did receive God's forgiveness, and he did follow God faithfully after that. So on one hand you have that part. The other hand you have the lasting consequences of what took place because of his sin. You saw, the consequences on his kingdom and his leadership. You saw the consequences on his own family, where the child that was born would pass away after just a few days and then trouble in his family later on, if you continue to read his story in the Bible. So it wasn't without effect, it wasn't without consequences. But at the same time, he did repent, he was forgiven, and he was continuing to serve as a man after God's own heart because he was willing to turn when God, had called him out on his sin through the prophet Nathan. So we have those aspects and it's very similar to the parallel we see with Peter in the NewSong Testament, who denied Jesus three times. And then after Jesus rose from the dead, Jesus confronted him three times with Feed my sheep and restored him to ministry. And Peter went on to have a great ministry after that time. So their parallelism parallels in the NewSong Testament as well, that you could be a follower of Christ who has a fall and yet is restored and continues to do God's work after that time. So that's one way to look at it.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. And we serve a great God. And I want to say to everybody listening, Nathan, fantastic question. just like David and Psalm 51 talks about the repentance of David. if you have sinned and you've disobeyed the Lord, he is a God who forgives. And if you repent, turn to Christ. Whatever you've done, if you ask him and you put your faith in Jesus, he will forgive you. And, David was not only forgiven, but he was restored. Thank you for that question about that, very notable Bible character. Nathan.

We're going to go to Mississippi. David in Mississippi. David, welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: Hello. Hello.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes, welcome.

>> Speaker D: Bless y'. All. I listen to y' all a lot.

A question was brought up about what Christ did after dying on the cross

But, I just had a. A question was, brought up during the service last Sunday that, when Jesus died on the cross, you know, he told the thief that, you will be with me today. Now, that doesn't. Jesus was not separated from God. Right. That's the way I understand it is they went to paradise. Both of them went to paradise. That's where everybody went in the Old Testament. And then when Jesus left, he took them with him. Right?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And this is a good. I want. I want you to finish your question. This is a good question about what happened. We're going to talk about that. Ephesians 4. 4, I believe it's 8 through 10. And Psalm 68. What Christ did after dying on the cross, but between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. But continue with your question if you'd like.

>> Speaker D: That's it. That's. That's the total question.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes.

>> Speaker D: I just want to confirm what I was thinking.

Did everybody prior to Jesus go to hell? And the answer is no

>> Alex McFarland: Okay, so let me say this, and Dylan, and we haven't, you know, discussed this ahead of time, so feel free, Dylan, to, agree or disagree. As I understand it, prior to Calvary and the resurrection, there were, in the realm of the dead, there was Abraham's bosom or paradise. And there was, well, Hades, the punishment of the unsaved dead. And, how people got saved before Jesus went to the cross, is another subject. We had this question a couple of weeks ago. Did everybody prior to Jesus go to hell? And the answer is no. pre Calvary, people are saved through faith. Habakkuk, chapter two says that, we are saved by faith in Jesus. Same Jesus, same kind of faith belief, but two different sides of the cross. But in The Luke, 2343, I believe it is, Jesus told the thief what's called the penitent thief.

>> Speaker D: Truly.

>> Alex McFarland: I say to you today you'll be with me in paradise, which is the word that's like in Luke 16 for Abraham's bosom. But, Dylan, Ephesians 4 says that he went into the realm of the dead, led captivity, captive. So who were the captives? Well, those in the realm of the saved, the believing dead, Abraham's bosom or paradise. And they were taken to heaven proper where they are with Christ. And I really do believe where it says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, the unsaved dead are still in the realm of the unsaved dead, but prior to the resurrection. And by the way, this is pretty deep. There's not enough to forge out a, fully orbed answer here. But the believing dead were taken from paradise to heaven proper, during that very, very significant first Easter weekend. Dylan, though, what do you say, my friend?

>> Dillon: Yeah, there's a lot there. And first, I just want to be clear, like you said, Luke 23, Jesus tells the man on the cross who repented in faith to Jesus that he would be with him that day in paradise. It's very clear that that man went to heaven that day, that Jesus went with him into heaven that day. And so there's no soul sleep, no other gap in between. That's exactly what happened. Just what the Word says in Luke 23 there. But then what happens next? there are a couple of different views. You talked about Ephesians, Ephesians 4, where it says he descended into the lower parts of the earth. And then that's what the debate is, even among Christian scholars. There are those who take that view that the descending into the earth is Jesus coming from heaven to earth, and using that as the interpretation. There are others who believe that Jesus went into the underworld in some way and then came back after defeating death in the grave. that's another way to look at it, where it talks about descending into hell and the apostles creeping creed, for instance. I would take the first view that it's talking about Jesus coming from heaven, descending to earth, and then when he died, he went into paradise, just like it says in Luke 23. So I would take that view. But there are certainly multiple, ways to look at that aspect of it, and it's even controversial among some of the top scholars in Christian theology. So you're not the only one who said that question, that's for sure. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.

>> Alex McFarland: that's a great question. I do love 2nd Corinthians 5, 8. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. we got a lot of calls. Fantastic. Joanne, Pam, William, Colleen, Karen. We're going to get to you. We're coming up pretty soon on a break. Let me give the number 885-898-80. Triple 858-9840.

Alex and Dylan exploring the word on American Family Radio Network

And I, don't want to queue up a question before we have to know Breakaway for a commercial, but this is Alex and Dylan exploring the word on the American Family Radio Network. A brief intermission, and we're going to come back with more of your questions on this edition of Fire Away Friday. Stay with us.

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>> Dillon: Do everything without complaining and arguing so that no one can criticize you. Live clean, innocent lives as children of

>> Alex McFarland: God, shining like bright lights in a

>> Dillon: world full of crooked and perverse people. Philippians 2, 14, 15.

>> : American Family Radio.

>> Speaker D: I know that my redeemer lives.

>> Alex McFarland: I know that my redeemer lives.

>> Speaker D: Still keeping all his promises.

>> Dillon: The same Jesus.

>> Speaker D: The same Jesus. Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome back to Explore the Word. Yes, we know that our redeemer lives, and he does live, and he loves you. And we always say this, but Jesus is as close by as a prayer. And we, encourage you to call out to him today. Joanne in NewSong York. Joanne, are you there?

>> Speaker D: Yes, yes, I'm here.

>> Alex McFarland: Thanks for holding. Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: You. Thank you.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes. How may we serve you, dear one?

>> Speaker D: Yes, I was wondering, when Jesus was on the cross, he said, father, why have you forsaken me? Is that when he went kind of Father, the Father God separated himself. Is that kind of like in hell? The pastors, Some of the pastors. Great question.

>> Alex McFarland: and, thank you for listening.

Dylan says Jesus references Psalm 22 from the cross during crucifixion

before we go into this, may I ask you, Joanne, what. What part of NewSong York are you in? Are you in the city? Are you in NewSong York state?

>> Speaker D: western NewSong York?

>> Alex McFarland: Wonderful, wonderful. Well, Dylan, as I recall from the cross, Christ references Psalm, 22, doesn't he, Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Dylan, what was going on there?

>> Dillon: Yeah, you hit it exactly right. when people see that, they think initially. Oh, oh, my Goodness. God the Father's forsaking Jesus the Son. How does that work? But a closer look shows that he's quoting from Psalm 22. And if you look at Psalm 22, you see it's a fulfillment of prophecy in the crucifixion of Jesus that the Jewish people would have recognized in a very significant way. there are a couple of ways that stand out. One, it talks about Jesus bearing the sins of the world. You know, he was like us, but without sin, and yet on the cross, he bore the sins of the world. But, then there's the other aspect of it, where he's going from a time of despair, where it looks like everything is over, everything's defeated, and yet three days later, he defeats death and the grave and proves once and for all that he is the Savior of the world. So, initial look, it might look like there's some kind of separation between the Father and the Son. But a, closer look at it shows it's a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that he's referring to. That's very significant and would have stood out in a way for the Jewish people to who had questions about him as the Messiah that were very significant for the early Christians. It's a great study, a, great thing to look at in terms of what was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth from the Old Testament, along with hundreds of other prophecies.

>> Alex McFarland: And, you know, Psalm 22 was written about a thousand years before the life of Jesus, and it very clearly depicts the crucifixion, even though it was written centuries earlier. And it's almost like I've often thought about this. From the cross, Jesus, cries out. This verse that the Jews would have known was a reference to the Messiah. my God, my God. And it's almost like Christ was saying Psalm M22, Psalm 22. And there were so many messianic prophecies. And in Matthew 27, you see this Roman centurion who says, truly, this was the Son of God, you know, in reference to the earthquake. And the sky became dark. And so, it's almost like from Bethlehem to Calvary, every step of his life here on earth was the fulfillment of prophecy, showing Christ is the sent Son of God, our Savior, whom we receive by faith. Bless you, Joanne.

Pam in Indiana has a question about the death penalty

Let's go to Indiana, great Midwestern state. Pam in Indiana, welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: Yes, thank you. I have a question about the death penalty. I've always been confused about how, as Christians, we can say it's okay to believe in the Death penalty when as soon as we kill them, they have, they're not able to ask for forgiveness for the sins that they did.

>> Alex McFarland: Good question. Capital, punishment for murder. by the way, this is, this falls under the heading of what we would call Christian Ethics. And not to reference my own books too much, but I wrote a book several years ago called 10 issues that divide Christians. And we write about some of these ethical issues like the death penalty. And I want to reference a really, really good book. And when Bert or Dylan or I recommend any books, they're books that we feel a lot of confidence about. One, Christian Ethics was written by a, a wonderful scholar. He's in heaven now. Robertson McQuilkin. Dr. Robertson McQuilkin. For years he was president of CIU Columbia International University, and it was published by Tyndale. Great book. I know it sounds contradictory because the sixth commandment says thou shalt not commit murder. But, in the Bible, in places like Genesis 9, 6 and other scriptures, and I really believe an argument could be made, Romans 13:1 7, about civil government does not bear the sword in vain, that the death penalty for convicted murderers is something that can justly be carried out by the state. and actually believe it or not, the death penalty affirms the value of human life, in that if someone unjustly wantonly, with no justification, it was not self defense, it was not national defense, but somebody murders a person, and they're convicted, that they recompense for the life they've taken with their own life. Now Dylan, if you would speak to the college question about they wouldn't have time to ask forgiveness and maybe about the, the Gospel ministry, that would be attempted before an execution is carried out.

>> Dillon: Right. And then in addition to what you'd mentioned, there's also Genesis 9. In the story of Noah, he mentions that those who shed a person's blood, will be shed, will have their blood shed as well, which is interesting. And then even in the NewSong Testament where Jesus is talking about going to the garden of Gethsemane, tells his followers to have some swords, and then talks about, you know, those who live by the sword will die by the sword. It's an interesting mix of, statements about what happens to someone who kills somebody else. And it's interesting to me that even today we have the same conversations. There are Christians who believe very strongly in the death penalty as a way to protect life from those who would harm others. And there are those who would say, why would we ever impose the death penalty, because those people are valuable in God's sight, will never have another chance to believe in Jesus as their Savior. Well, you can make a good argument both ways. I think biblically, there's a clear case that times when the death penalty is allowed, and there's certainly, an argument to be made, like you said in Romans 13, that, Ah, government does have the authority to do so. But when it comes to someone who is facing a potential death penalty, we are called as Christians and prison chaplains especially, to share the gospel with them and see if there's still an opportunity for that person to repent and to turn. And there have been stories and documented cases of people on death row who have accepted Jesus as your Savior. I don't know if those are legitimate stories in every case, but there are cases where it seems like that has happened and we praise God for those. But, to ultimately answer your question, it's something that the Bible has allowed in the past, does allow government to do even still today. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with the death penalty. If we're a Christian, we can be those people who say, like Jesus, you without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone. And to make that argument that it's not always appropriate to move forward, with the death penalty on those who shed the blood of others. And that you can look at the Bible for exceptions to the case of Moses where he put someone to death and, you know, God didn't put him to death, he came back and was later a leader of his people. So there are cases where there is an exception to that as well. But great question. Thanks so much for calling.

>> Alex McFarland: It is. And you know, Dylan and listeners, I think one of the things we can also do maybe preemptively on the front side is be very vocal to affirm the value of human life. I think we need, especially with children and teens coming up. Dylan, we've completed, over six camps this summer and we talk about our Constitution provides legal protection for the unborn and we value human life at every stage because we're made in God's image. And I don't think we can say enough about that to the value and the sanctity of human life.

Karen from Alabama calls Exploring the Word with a question about Jesus

Let's go to Alabama. Karen in Alabama. Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: Karen, hey, can you hear me?

>> Alex McFarland: We sure can. Glad you called.

>> Speaker D: Okay. this is, these questions that we have already discussed, on the program about being Jesus and being in the presence of God. It follows right along with my Question. My question is. Well, in Jon it says in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and Word was God. So we know that Jesus and God have been m together for all time, and that God had turned his face from Jesus in order for him to make the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. That that was their separation. But my question was, what my ponderance is, is when Jesus became flesh and was in the womb, did he. Was he still in the presence of God? Was he still with God?

>> Alex McFarland: Great question. and this falls under what C.S. lewis called the grand miracle creation of the solar system, this universe. It's a miracle. Creation of Adam and Eve. It's a miracle. CS Lewis called the Incarnation the grand miracle. In other words, that God could take on a human body. And what's so wonderful about the person of Jesus? And this is how he could be our Savior. He never ceased to be God. But to perfect, thorough, complete divinity was added perfect, sinless humanity. And Philippians 2 addresses this. I would encourage people to read Philippians chapter two. But of course, very famously, in Jon 8:58 and Jon 10, Jesus asserted his deity and his eternality. And so, the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, eternally, forever God, and yet the second member of the Godhead, God the Son Christ Jesus, put on a human body. Why? For a lot of reasons, not the least of which is so that he could go to the cross, be nailed to the cross, be our sin bearer. It's all part of the Incarnation. And, dear friends, he did it because he loves you.

Dylan, speak to this, if you would, the baby Jesus

Dylan, speak to this, if you would, the baby Jesus. An infant in a manger, but still God.

>> Dillon: Yes. And the verse you mentioned in Philippians 2:7 is key here. The new King James Version says he made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant and coming in the likeness of men. there's so much in those few words where it talks about him going from being in heaven for all eternity past, like you mentioned, to limiting himself in some way that we can't completely understand in a human body. From conception in Mother Mary's womb, to being developed through the virgin birth, being born just like any other child, and yet having no sin throughout his entire lifetime. there's no parallel to that that we can find throughout history. It's God coming in human form. And as Jon 1 talks about, he dwelled among us. And it's that imagery, if he pitched his tent among us or camped among us, that the whole idea was for him to identify with us, his creation. So that we would see him and turn to him and choose him as our Savior. It's a beautiful picture, one that we grasp at understanding through questions like yours, but that we don't completely understand until we are with them face to face. But thanks so much for calling. Appreciate that.

>> Alex McFarland: What a wonderful question.

William: Good to hear from you. Hey, how are y' all doing

we're going to go to Virginia. We William in Virginia. William, thanks for holding. Welcome.

>> Speaker D: Hey, how are y' all doing?

>> Alex McFarland: Blessed. Good to hear from you.

>> Speaker D: Good. Thank you and Dylan, for doing this. You guys are doing us a great service.

Question about Old Testament poetry: Do you know if original language was poetic

But I've got a question about, the language in the Old Testament in books like the Psalms, which. It almost looks like poetry. Do you know if that original language, as it was written, was poetic in that it rhymed and had meter to it?

>> Alex McFarland: God bless you. do you know what? Sometimes the language of Psalms is called lyric poetry. Now, Jesus would refer to the law and the prophets, but sometimes, what we call the old Testament, the 39 books of the Old Testament, there's the Torah, the law. But then there is the poetry of Psalms. Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon. You know, it does have an incredible grandeur and beauty when it's rendered in English. But, I don't know exactly the rhyme scheme or the cadence of it in Hebrew. Dylan, do you know? it was viewed as kind of the hymn book of the Old Testament. But exactly how, poetic like, would it have been in its original language? Dylan?

>> Dillon: Right. No, it's a great question, since we typically do so in English songs, in English poetry. But often, Jewish poetry did not have that same type of rhyming scheme. They had what's called parallelism, which is the same. Same thought expressed in two ways. You see that in the Psalms and in the Proverbs many times. Another concept, that's usually expressed is chiastic structure. Where something would have line A, line B, line C, and then B and then A again, kind of like a carrot. and then other times you would have things that were written in an acrostic. Where it would be the first letter of the Alphabet. And then the second letter of the Alphabet for the second line, and so forth. You see that throughout Psalm 119, especially, where there is a section for each letter of the Alphabet. There are smaller sections in Psalms as well. But in terms of rhyming, with the Hebrew, it's. It's not common. It's one of those things I've looked at before and thought as well. but they had different types of parallelisms. different types of poetic expressions. And it fit the culture of their time in a way that doesn't have an exact parallel in the way that we use English in our poetry, in our songs.

>> Alex McFarland: Great question. Hey, we got a, take a break here. We're going to come back. We'll take more calls and questions. And that's Psalm 119. I love it. 22 stanzas or strophes, eight verses each, 176 verses. And they would memorize it. Think about that. We're back after this brief break.

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>> Dillon: They do an ultrasound.

>> Speaker D: And that's when everything changed.

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>> Speaker D: when I heard her heartbeat, that was it.

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Alex McFarland: Please pray for Eric Metaxas next week

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome back to Exploring the Word. We're going to get straight to the palace. I want to remind everybody, please pray a week from tomorrow. We have Rick Mattack, just one of the great communicators of our time. this is going to be at the Greg Rolls Theater in North Myrtle Beach. This is part of our series Conversations that Matter. and it's free. You can go to my website AlexMcFarland.com AlexMcFarland.com for complete information. he is a seven times NewSong York Times best selling author. Rick Metaxas, fantastic Christian writer. And we just try to bring great speakers to inspire you to stand strong for God and country. One year ago, in his last American appearance before getting assassinated, we had Charlie Kirk. And in fact we were due to have Charlie Kirk again this August. But, we're going to have Rick Metaxas and please pray about it. And if you come, if you're anywhere in the Mid Atlantic region, it's fantastic. you're going to love it. We'd love to have you. As we talk about restoring the Soul of our Nation. Rick Metaxas. August 8th. Well, Dylan, we're going to go to Florida. Darla. In Florida. One week ago, we had our youth camp in Florida. But, Darla, thanks for calling.

>> Speaker D: Thank you for having me on. I appreciate this.

>> Alex McFarland: God bless you.

Darlington: How should Christians view illegal immigrants in a biblical way

>> Speaker D: I have, have been, struggling a little bit with, what Jeremiah has to say about, when God was talking about the children of Israel, how they were being disobedient. And one of the things that Jeremiah says is, do not oppress the alien. Well, that gives me, you know, pause to wonder what we're supposed to do about these, illegal aliens that keep coming. I mean, do we, are they considered the alien? how should we as Christians, view this in a biblical way and still say sovereignty?

>> Alex McFarland: Great, great, great question. and it's one that, again, Christian ethics, clearly in the Old Testament, God tells Israel not only about the alien or the foreigner crossing through your land, but really widows and orphans too. And God warns Israel about being, for one thing, you know, treating people humanely, not oppressing people. and by the way, this does not. I've written several editorials on this. you can Google about, the borders and immigration, but I think both at the same time, you can uphold what the Bible says about dignity and respect, honest, humane treatment of all people. And at the same time, you can have the rule of law, you can have secure borders, and you can look after, what scholars like Augustine said is the first responsibility of a just government is to care for the taxpaying citizens of a country. So I don't think it's mutually exclusive, like either you secure the country or you look after, you know, people humanely that are not, here legally. One last thing before I throw it to Dylan. Ah, we can do both. And, but since, I am told, and I was just doing research this week, because we get this question from like college students while we're talking about treating other human beings humanely and justly. In the last roughly 12 to 14 years, 300,000 rapes and abductions have been committed against young women by people that were in America illegally. And so I understand that, these are hard decisions, deporting, felons that are here illegally. but we in America, we have ins, Immigration and naturalization. People can legally and safely migrate here. And by the way, let me say that America is the most philanthropic nation in the world. A trillion t, trillion dollars a year is given to, benevolent causes, and about 80 plus percent of that money comes from what sociologists call people of faith. In other words, the church. But, I realize it's, ah, kind of a sticky wicket, but I really do think that our government has to maintain the rule of law and secure borders and look after the safety of the citizens. But, Dylan, what do you say?

>> Dillon: Yes, well, thanks so much for your call. And Alex called out. The major fallacy right there is that oftentimes we are pushed to choose between, kicking someone out of the country who's not here legally. And the other option would be to, you know, accept the person into our society and treat them with kindness. Well, the Bible tells us we're supposed to treat the stranger with kindness, not to oppress them. But we're also to respect the governing authorities and to respect the rule of law. that is the biblical perspective we are to maintain. So when we are in a society where they're illegal immigrants, well, I don't know what a person's saying status is when I meet them on the street. So I'm going to treat them with kindness. But if that person is deported because they're here illegally, then, okay, that's the law and those are the consequences. We do have rules in place for people to come into the nation legally, to even become citizens legally, that we should adhere to. And of course, there are ways that we can help improve and reform those laws. And that's one great thing about our societies, that we do have a say in our lawmakers and our lawmaking. But ultimately it comes down to respecting people, treating those around us well, but also maintaining, the rule of law and respecting the laws of our land. So great question, and I think Alex addressed it well.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you, Darla.

There's a lot of talk about pre tribulation, mid tribulation

Let's go to Tennessee. Philip in Tennessee. Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: Well, thank you for taking my call. Can you hear me?

>> Alex McFarland: We can, yes.

>> Speaker D: Yes. I've got a quick question, gentlemen. there's a lot of talk, currently about pre tribulation, mid tribulation, and post tribulation, and I don't have any scripture in front of me, so please forgive me. I would just like some counsel, on your views as to how I can explain this. I'm actually involved in a local Bible college and that question comes up a lot. Can you give me some scripture, that will explain the best view and I promise I won't hold your feet to the fire. I just want a, educated, biblical point of view. And I can't think of anywhere else, to get it then this show. Thank you. And I'll hang up and listen. God bless you.

>> Alex McFarland: God bless you. Well, you know, forgive, me for promoting one of our books, but those watching online, you can see on the shelf, behind my right shoulder is 100 Bible questions and answers on prophecy and the end times that came out, Scott Bert and my name on the Cove But Dylan Burroughs helped us with the research for that as well. But the tribulation, I believe, and I want to be clear, look equally good godly people have disagreed on the minutia of the end times. the point of orthodoxy on which we all agree is that Christ is coming back. Jesus literally is going to return and rule and reign victoriously as I understand it. and I believe that there is going to be a seven year tribulation on planet Earth. Pre tribulation.

>> Speaker D: Tribulationalism,

>> Alex McFarland: is really the belief that there will be a rapture, a catching away, and before Christ returns to rule and reign on Earth, there's going to be a seven year tribulation, a time of well, it's like the threshing of wheat really. And there'll be an antichrist that rules and reigns and is just the one, the worst despot, the world has ever seen. And many people will die and be martyred for faith in Jesus Christ. But I think the seven year tribulation is literal, I really do. but before that there's the catching away of the church, the rapture. but Dylan, I'll say this, I'll throw it to you. I don't think we should burn bridges over this. I know people that love Jesus, but they take some of those eschatological passages allegorically. I don't, I take them literally. But Dylan, what's your position on this?

>> Dillon: Right, and as you said, all Bible believing Christians agree that Jesus is coming back and taking all of his people to be with him forever. That's the common ground that we adhere to. But when it comes to the tribulation, both Daniel and Revelation talk about the, the seven year future period where all these bad things will happen and then Jesus comes back after that and we reign with Him. the two main views are pre tribulational and post tribulational. And there's also a smaller view mid tribulation, which would be three and a half years right at the middle of that seven year period. like Alex, I would hold to the pre tribulation view that emphasizes Jesus can come back at any moment. That's what 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 talks about at the end. 1st Corinthians 15 talks about at the end of the chapter. it highly emphasizes that urgency, that Jesus is coming back any moment. Let's be ready for it. And then, at that point, the tribulation would happen shortly after. And then Jesus returns with all of his believers at the end of seven years and defeats, you know, the forces of evil, and then begins the millennial kingdom that we read about in Revelation 20. And there's the new heavens and the new earth. That's the view that I would take. Others would say that Jesus only comes once, at the end of the tribulation. All the believers are left during that time of turmoil. And sometimes those are the ones that you see that are really into, you know, what's going to happen when everything goes down. You know, the prepper type of views and those kind of things. Not always, but sometimes you see that, but I take the view that 1st Thessalonians 4 says that we talk about Jesus coming back at any moment, and we are to encourage one another with these words. And as the late Dr. Hindson had always talk about, about these words were written to prepare us, not to scare us. And that's the viewpoint I take in talking with others on this topic as well. Great question, great question.

>> Alex McFarland: And again, the book to do a deep dive on it, the book that Bert and I did several months ago, which is available at the AFA Resource, page.

The only way we can really understand the incarnation and the resurrection is by the Trinity

Let's go to Texas. Karen in Texas. Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Speaker D: Yes, thank you, Alex. I appreciate y' all so much. I just, Well, we all agree that Trinity is God in one person, God, and God is God. I, I called him before and we got disconnected. But I don't know if there's. If it. Because God, Jesus was in human form, but when he speaks about, you know, only the Father knows the man, the time and the hour. But I've heard it spoken that, that also, that when God, when Jesus was crucified on the cross, that God crucified himself. You know, I'm trying to find some answers to that. I can understand it, but I'm just trying to reconcile some things. I know. I believe in the Trinity wholeheartedly. So does that make any sense to y'? All?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I appreciate that. And this is, this is very deep. I think the only way that we can really understand not only the incarnation, but the atonement and the resurrection is by the Trinity. That, Jesus, The Bible tells us in Mark 10 and Matthew 20, Jesus came to give his life a ransom for many. And let me say this, and I'll throw it to Dylan. sin is very serious. And God doesn't just sweep it under the rug or turn a blind eye. God is a just God, a righteous God. Sin must be dealt with, but God is also a merciful God. And in Christ coming and being willing to die on the cross, God was making a way to fully, fully fulfill his, justice, his righteousness, his holiness, but manifest his grace with nothing being just ignored. I mean, the amount of, wrath that human sin deserved was put onto Jesus. It's a legal universe. And God, without compromising any of his nature, without overlooking any part of His Word, and without just, doing anything unjust, but at the same time being eminently merciful. well, it says Adrian Rogers said, on a skull shaped hill outside of Jerusalem, man murdered his maker. It's amazing. And I'll say this, I'll throw it to you in, Isaiah 53, 6, 8, it says it pleased the Father to bruise him and that he would cleanse many nations. so God sent the Son, the Son went to Calvary, the Father allowed it. But really, what killed Jesus on Calvary's cross? It was our sins that nailed him there. But he voluntarily gave his life. It's almost more than the. Well, it is more than the human mind can take in. But Jesus did that out of love for us, didn't he, Dylan?

>> Dillon: He did. And it's insightful to me how surprised the disciples were and the women were when tomb was empty on the third day. He did say he was going to do this. He did predict it. Prophecy said it was coming, but when it happened, they were shocked because they saw that he had truly died. He had been buried, and yet here he was alive again. And it reminds me that Jesus is not only our creator, but also the sustainer of life. There are so many places in scripture that affirm this. I think of Colossians 1:17 tells us in him all things hold together. That Hebrews 1:3 tells us that Jesus upholds all things by the word of his power. These are such inspiring verses that remind us that Jesus made us, he sustains us, he empowers us now by his spirit to live for him in a way that is supernatural, if we will fully, believe in him and commit our lives to Him. So your question is a great one, but it's also one with a lot of application for us today. And I want to throw it back to Alex to wrap us up. But I really appreciate that focus on Christ and on his death and burial and resurrection today.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, Dylan, thank you and thanks to all the callers and there are several we didn't get to time, just fleets away from us. we're going to be back live Monday with more Exploring the Word. Let me encourage you, be in church on Sunday. Find a place to worship where the Bible is preached in. Jesus Christ is honored. In the meantime, thanks for listening to the American Family Radio Network and exploring the Word. If you would tell somebody about exploring the Word, but most of all tell everybody about Jesus. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

>> : PreBorn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year PreBorn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com afr.

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