The Holy Spirit: Personal Applications

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Alex McFarland and Bert Harper discuss the ministry of the Holy Spirit

Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, good evening Everybody. Alex McFarland here along with Bert Harper. And this is Exploring the Word. And you know, I'm going to begin with a verse today. Romans 15:13. It says, May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. Bert, I think that is a really good scripture to open up our ongoing conversation about the ministries of the Holy Spirit. And we live and serve and walk by his power and we have joy, peace, and we do abound in hope, don't we?

>> Bert Harper: We really do. Matter of fact, when you read First Corinthians 13, and I know it's called the love chapter at the end is faith, you know, hope, love. Right in the middle of that is hope. And this hope is not something. Okay, maybe so. I hope so, but, someone has said it's a no. So when you know the Lord and we live in a living hope and it is continuing in our lives at the point of salvation. And the Holy Spirit of God comes in, in power. you're not waiting for power. we're waiting for our lives to surrender to go will and purpose. And then the Holy Spirit just directs us, empowers us. So Alex, the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it is a living hope that he brings into our lives.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and do you know, I, sometimes I think that maybe we take for granted the work of the Holy Spirit in all of our lives. We know God is with us and we pray in Jesus name, as of course we should. But, but God's Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is personal and is a person, has attributes and characteristics that we read about in the Bible. And the Holy Spirit, deserves, you know, equal time, I guess you might say, in terms of Bible study, don't you think?

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Good point, Alex. You know, when I first got saved, I'd heard of the Holy Spirit and I, I knew, but I, did not realize what was happening at that point of salvation when the Holy Spirit of God moved in to my life. I did not realize that, but I began to realize that even before I began to study and know I was experiencing, the ministry of the Holy Spirit without me even knowing it. Alex, in those early years. And then when I started studying, our pastor would preach on the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I said, wow, no wonder, I was different after my salvation experience. Alex the venish and Holy Spirit, he brings hope, he brings change, and, he brings ministry. if, if God only wanted us to be saved, now he does want us to be saved, okay, but he wants us to experience and the joy of, of the ministry of reconciliation. You remember that passage of Scripture? He's given us the ministry of reconciliation. He's left us here empowered by the Holy Spirit so that we can continue doing the work that God's called us to do. And, we, that's what we want to do on exploring the Word. We try to do that each day. But during this study, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, we're really bringing it in what God has given us. And today's no difference when we talk about the grace that was given to us. And part of that grace was ministering gifts, wasn't it?

>> : Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. And, you know, one of the reasons, I mean, there's a lot of reasons we could give to justify, you know, a deep dive study of the Holy Spirit. But I think at the top of the list would be the fact that Jesus himself, multiple, multiple times, taught on the Holy Spirit. Of course, very famously in, Jon 14:16, which, by the way, I love Jon 14:15 and 16. And Bert, in my Bible, Jon 14 through 17 is 99.9% red ink, because these are the words of Christ. But, Jesus said in Jon 14:16 that he would send an advocate, the, the counselor, the helper, the comforter. And, one of the words is paraclete, the one who comes alongside. But, let me read if I could, Jon 14:26. This is a great verse, and let me just throw something out there. if people ask you, you know, why should I believe that the Bible is indeed the word of God? There are many reasons, lots of, lines of argumentation to compellingly defend that the Bible is God's word. But the short answer, why do we believe the Bible is God's word? because Jesus said so when he was Raised from the dead. And so the only man that ever walked on water and raised from the dead affirmed the totality of our Bible. So Christ repeatedly affirmed the authenticity of the Old Testament. And, and he made provision for the NewSong Testament, the Bible, Old Testament, NewSong Testament. Christ affirmed, the Old. He made provision for the NewSong. And let me explain. In Jon 14:26, Jesus said, But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. In other words, Christ told the apostles there, the Spirit of God, I love the way the King James renders it. The Holy Spirit will remind you of all things whatsoever I have told you. And Bert, isn't that amazing that Jesus gave this to the disciples? That the Holy Spirit would teach all things and bring to our remembrance all that Jesus has said. And I realize Christ was talking to the disciples right there, but, I've prayed that many times, you know, Lord, please bring to my remembrance the things that you have taught me. Bring to my remembrance what I've read in your Word. And that, calling to mind scriptures and truths. That's part of the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart and life of a believer.

>> Bert Harper: And he calls it up just at the right time.

Alex: One of the most amazing things that I've experienced is ministry

I've been amazed in my life and, and I've lived. I've been a Christian. Now get ready. for, 62 years, I follow the Lord. He has been real to me. One of the most amazing things that I've experienced is the ministry of the Holy Spirit reminded me of things he has done in my life, things that I've read in the word of God. then messages and songs. Yes, even songs. God, can he put a new song in my heart. He's brought some songs to my heart and my mind at the right time, at the right place. That is the ministry of the Holy Spirit. He said, I will not leave you. I will not forsake you. I'm going to be with you always, always through this, this age. And so we have that assurance that he comes in. Now, does he come in just to make us feel that way?

>> : No.

>> Bert Harper: Now, with that feelings come. His feeling brings. I love this. His feeling brings feelings. Okay, Alex, that's true. And these feelings are real, but the real reason is ministry. He left me here to bring about, do the kingdom work of sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and bring glory to the Father. And he wrote to churches like in Rome. he wrote to the Church in Corinth. He wrote to the church in Ephesus, and he told them that they had received grace, and that grace is the Holy Spirit coming to you for salvation, but also for equipping to do the work. So the Holy Spirit of God. Alex, again I go back, I. I knew I was different, but I had no idea. The older I get, the longer I serve him, I. The more I realize the ministry of the Holy Spirit and how vital it is in a believer's life. Brother.

>> : Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Well said. Well said. And, you know, folks, you. I think everybody has been cognizant of when the Spirit of God was speaking to them, you know, very commonly convicting of sin or leading or prompting. And do you know, Bert, Many a time. And listen, I give God the glory. I don't mean to, you know, talk about my own experiences, but whenever I get somebody on my mind, I've learned to give them a call. And I couldn't tell you how many times somebody would say, thank you for calling. you know, I needed a word of encouragement. please pray for me. This or that is going on. And I've come to realize whenever I get somebody on my mind that I'm really thinking about, that's the Holy Spirit prompting me to do that. I mean, it just couldn't be an accident. And, traveling as I have, I've been very, very blessed to know lots of pastors. And, you know, I'll call and try to, you know, say, how you doing? I was just thinking about you. How can I be praying for you? And Bert, many, many a pastor has said, alex, man, your timing is so perfect, because I really needed to talk to somebody today. But see, that's the Holy Spirit. It's not. Certainly not me. And I guess my point is that if we'll allow it and really be attuned and listening for the promptings of the Holy Spirit, I think God can use us in great ways to help encourage people, bring people. I'll tell you something else. I'll throw it back to you. Forgive me for being on a roll here. There have been people that I've tried to lead to Christ, and I'd be praying for them. And then, I get that little memo from the Holy Spirit, and I call them up, and they're ready to pray and accept Christ.

>> Bert Harper: When I hear that, Alex, you know, he gave pastors, he gave us prophets, evangelists, pastor teachers. He's given us these positions to function. To function as well. Paul said it Especially in the book of Romans. Also in the book of, again, I've referred to them Corinth and even in Ephesians, the body. The body functioning as what one. And so when the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart, to call the pastor that you just, did or calling to that individual that's going to become a part of the body of Christ, he's bringing that, working it together in the function that God's called us all to do. And again, again, he says the church is one body. Now we think about the church, the, body of Christ. All believers around the world are part of that body. But then you have a local body. That local body is made up of members individually. But it's amazing what this says. It says it in Romans 12:3. Let me read this. For I say, through the grace given to me to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, M. But all the members do not have the same function. when I hear you talking about you working with the pastors all over the United States that you've been and spoken to myself as I've worked with more with local churches and finding out where they are and how they operate, to see the body working together. And what is it the Holy Spirit of God who is indwelt each believer. And you, you. You said it earlier. The prompting of the Holy Spirit. So God has given us grace, gifts. He's given us the Holy Spirit of God to empower us. But I want to man, you carry us out. He prompts us when those gifts are being used for his glory. When that happens, it is glorious, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: It really is. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing. And when we come back, we're going to look at 1st Corinthians 12 a little bit and learn about how the Holy Spirit has gifted and empowered each one of us for his glory and for the edification of others and the work of the body. This is exploring the Word. We've got a brief break on this Monday edition. Stay tuned. We're back after this brief break, plus your phone calls and more. Don't go away.

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>> : Everything I need. My father hasn't, My father hasn't. And every single time, the Lord will provide. That's right. My father has, My father hasn't. Amen.

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Bert and Alex discuss First Corinthians 12 about spiritual gifts

Well, this is exploring the word. Bert and Alex here today. We want to thank Cole Greene for operating the camera today. For those of you that are watching and, Marty's, out, but Cole steps in, does an awesome job. Brent's over there at the board, ready to go. And we, we appreciate everybody and every people that have a part of exploring the Word, our listeners, those that pray for us. With that in mind, First Corinthians 12 that Paul, wrote and Alex referred to. he comes to chapter 12, verse one, and he just says, now, there are certain words that ought to get your attention. Now is one of them. he said, I've gone over this. I've told you about this. Now, concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that you were Gentiles. Now, here's such a great compliment carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore, I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed. And no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Now, Alex, verse three. Is the Holy Spirit of God the one that's going to convict? He's also going to reveal.

>> Bert Harper: He.

>> Bert Harper: Listen, no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit, that he comes in, he makes himself known. Now, here's the issue. He makes himself known. Will you and I let him make himself at home in our lives? Get that, Alex? He has come. but we need to let him be at home in our lives, every area of our lives. The Holy Spirit of God needs to be welcomed and received and let him have his way. And that's what happens here in chapter 12 about the gifts of God and saying, okay, I've given you grace now I've given you these gifts to operate through you, that Jesus Christ would get all the glory. spiritual gifts is not for our comfort, are they?

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, that's true. That is true. And, you know, let it be a habit that you listen for. You're seeking to hear from God and know his direction. And I cannot overstate that. How. Well, I'll put it this way. The way you learn more about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the. The way that your heart and your mind will be prepared to discern the will of God and the direction of God is, the more you're in scripture. And, we all want to be led by the Holy Spirit, or I certainly would hope that, And it's God's word that will do that. in fact, that's a step of obedience that, you know, we all should respond to. But, Bert, the good thing about it is the more years you're a believer, you'll often hear people say, you know, so and so has walked with God 30 years or whatever. it just becomes natural. And that's what you want to be controlled by the Holy Spirit of God, such that the, the. The sin nature, the. The carnal nature is not in the driver's seat. And you'll get to the point where you look back and you think, why was that ever a temptation? this or that. That's just not who I am anymore. That you've walked with the Lord and the Holy Spirit has been, on the throne of your heart for so long. It just becomes natural. What a beautiful thing that is. And I think that's the place that all Christians should desire to be at.

Every believer has at least one spiritual gift and usually several

>> Bert Harper: let's get Dr. Adrian Rogers quote in here. on a Monday. I, remember this. I think I remember the first time I ever heard him say it. I heard him say it several. We as believers are to be naturally supernatural and supernatural naturally. In other words, that's what you were just saying. Let the Holy Spirit of God guide us, as he fills us. And it becomes. That's the way we direct our lives. That's what the filling of the Holy Spirit. It says, walk in the Spirit. If you're walking in the Spirit, that means he's given us direction. He's given us power. So this is what we're referring to, the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives, equipping us to live this life, but also to minister as we do live. Now, Alex, again, 12. 4 says that there are diversities. Let me just. This is powerful. Verses 4, 5, and 6. Now, there are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. There are differences of ministry, but the same Lord and there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all, God, Paul is saying, listen, God is the one, God is the one that gives. He's the one that's assigned these. He's the one that's in charge of distributing them as he will. Alex. so when we were saved, the Holy Spirit came in. But hearing this, and it's a grace gift according to what Romans 12 says, because that's very important. The, the gifting of the Holy Spirit, it comes into our lives. The gifting comes into our lives at the point the Holy Spirit comes in our life with these supernatural giftedness that God brings into our lives. That doesn't mean we automatically, okay, we start doing it. No, we have to develop those. We have to recognize those and use those. Have you ever heard if you don't. If you don't use it, you'll lose it?

>> Alex McFarland: Of course, yes.

>> Bert Harper: Now our gifts are there, but if we are not using what God has gift gifted to us, I just want to tell you, it becomes dormant, you know. And so we want to serve him with gladness, don't we?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, we do. excuse me. Let me read First Corinthians 12:11, and talk about. Well, first, I'm going to read First Corinthians 12:4, if I may. Now, there are varieties of gifts, but the self, same spirit. In other words, one Holy Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries and the same Lord, one Holy Spirit, and varieties of gifts. And every believer, and this is really important, every believer has at least one spiritual gift and usually several. and there'll be one that's really predominant and strong. And so, every Christian, if you, if you're a believer, you've got a supernatural ability that was imparted to you at the moment of salvation that the Spirit of God chose to give you. And what's so exciting. And I'm going to read this in a couple of translations, if I may. The, NewSong American Standard verse 11 says, but one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually, just as he, the Holy Spirit wills. See, the Holy Spirit knows you even better than your mama. I mean, God, the Holy Spirit knows you intimately, and you're given a spiritual gift. Actually, one or a couple or maybe several. Verse, 12 in the, NewSong King James. But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as he wills. And Bert, the King James renders this. I, love the way the King James says it. But all these work of, ah, that one and self same spirit, capital S. Holy Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will. So here's the thing. The spirit of God imparts to you strengths, abilities, competencies, for work in your local church, for your own service to the gospel, individually and part of the church, you may be called to full time ministry, and that's really another subject. But Bert, the spirit of God gives us the spiritual gifts that we can use most fruitfully. You know, it's a pretty sure bet that I would never be called to be on the finance committee. Math, is just not my strong suit. You know, I've never bounced a check, but, you know, I'm just not really good. I know you're great at math, but, you know, God gave me other things. Bert, have you ever been on a finance committee or budgeting or something like that?

>> Bert Harper: Well, when you're a pastor, you are on that committee, I'll put it that way. And when I was on the board at afr, yeah, we had to deal with all those. But again, just because you add zero or add zeros. You get my drift there? Just because you asked one and two, it takes somebody on the. You need different gifts on these committees. Yeah, adding numbers, but somebody that has a vision. Because when they come up with something different, those that just look at the numbers. Oh, that doesn't add up. That doesn't add up. But you have somebody that says, well, that may be true, but we may need to move some things around in order to function this one that God has called us to do. So, you know, it's amazing how these gifts work together. But Alex, I'll throw it back to you. Notice the term that is used, these terms that are used, you know, I'm going to find them. If they're used, look at how many times each one is used. But also look at what it said. Same spirit. Same spirit. Same spirit.

Each one of us fits in where we fit with God's giftedness

We're talking about the Holy Spirit of God working in this person's life, who has this giftedness as much as is in the other. Now, over in, First Corinthians 12, Paul's going to talk about the body and it's going to talk about the. What does the eye say to the hand? I have no need of you. No, you need that hand and eye coordination, don't you? So here it is. Each one of these are members of the body. You know, if everybody was an eye, wouldn't that be gross? If everybody was a Hand, wouldn't that be. No. Each one of us fits in where we fit with God's giftedness. And, that's the reason I love this. We're to be one of. We're to be one body, but many members functioning together in lockstep with the Holy Spirit.

>> Alex McFarland: When you. You coached football or basketball?

>> Bert Harper: Basketball, yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: I bet you appointed different players to different positions on the court.

>> Bert Harper: You had to have a forward and a guard. You had to have a point guard. No matter what, you might. You might mix the others up a bit. Not have a center, not have this, but you better have a point guard.

>> Alex McFarland: And a good coach recognizes what players can function, most effectively in what position. And, the Holy Spirit knows what, we were made for. And the beautiful thing about it is you can cultivate the gifts and, when you discover. And by the way, I think a lot of. A lot of the way that we find our lane, if I could say that, or find our place, is by doing different things. And, Bert, I love the church. I really do. And I feel like the church where I got saved, Macedonia Baptist Church, it was definitely the right time in my life, Definitely the right time in the life of that church. And, you know, I did a little bit of everything. I mean, I helped with the choir, helped with the youth, helped with the custodial, duties, and, did everything. Eventually got to preach and teach. And, I just. I found out the things not only that I was stronger at, but the things that I really enjoyed the most. And, that's how I heard a preacher say one time, even God can't steer a parked car. And so, folks, if you want to learn about your spiritual gifts, get involved. You'll find out. I don't think any Christian who is sincerely looking for their place, God's going to withhold that you'll find your place. And as you do, it's just a beautiful, incredibly fulfilling thing.

>> Bert Harper: In the church that I last pastored full time, we had training classes, and, we would do the basic training, from the Bible and then some techniques that could be used. And then we would start letting those that felt like they were called into the area of teaching, we would let them go and be a part of the children's department for a month and part of the youth department. You know, just watching and listening and contributing in an adult. So they could not only see if they had the gifts, but they could identify possibly where. Because a lot of times somebody might be gifted in the area of teaching, but they do not register with children. They don't register with adult man. They fit right in there with the youth. And so each one of these gifts, when you find it, they do a great work. Real quickly before we go to our break and start taking phone calls, in the last segment in that number, if you would call is 8885-8988-4088-8589-8840.

Bert Harper: Spiritual giftness and abilities are not the same

Alex, I've mentioned it before. I'm going to do it again. Why it makes the spiritual gift so much different is because of our spiritual shape. As stands for spiritual gift. H is for your heart or your passion. A is for your abilities. spiritual giftness and abilities are not the same. P is your personality and E is your experience. When you put those four parts, the heart, the ability, your personality, your. Your experience. With your spiritual gifts, you can find out where you operate and how you operate best in what areas. And so, spiritual gifts, it is of the Holy Spirit, but he uses the rest of you, your personality, your heart, your experiences, for the glory of God as well.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. And we've said it a number of times, but the, the four places if you want to learn about spiritual gifts, First Corinthians, 12, Romans, 12, Ephesians 4 and First Peter 4. Hey, the number we want to hear from you with your phone calls, Bible Questions. It's 888-589-8840, 888-8589. Call us with your questions and we'll answer the phone after this.

>> Bert Harper: Right now, more mothers need that moment of Hope. Just $28 sponsors one ultrasound and $140 helps rescue five babies. Your generous tax deductible gift also helps provide mothers who choose life with love and support and care for up to two years. Please don't wait. Help surround mothers and babies with compassion, truth and hope today. To donate, dial hashtag 250 and say the key word baby. That's hashtag 250baby. Or visit preborn.com Bert Harper. That's preborn.com Bert Harper.

>> : If I get down, you pick me up from the ground. You give me love and don't give out giving.

Alex: Thank you to all who came to the Cove conference this weekend

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Yes, God lifts, us up and up, and how faithful the Lord. Is the number, the telephone number? If you've got a Bible question of any sort, but the number is triple. 858-9-8840. And Bert, before we get to the phones, I want to say a big, big thank you to all the people who came to the Cove the Billy Graham Conference center in Western North Carolina. I was there Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and there were nearly, 300 people. And, oh, my goodness, we had a great time in the Word of God and fellowshipping and laughing and meeting folks and praying and having just a great time there at that wonderful place. But, Bert, so many people, just expressed great love and appreciation for the American Family Radio Network. And they, they ask about you and they ask about Tim Wildmon and Abe Hamilton and everybody. And I just want to thank people. I will be there next week, also with Gary Habermas doing, another seminar on apologetics. But, thanks to Franklin Graham, Will Graham, and the incredible staff of the Cove and all the people who joined us this past weekend for that seminar.

>> Bert Harper: That's a great report. And those of you, I don't know if there's room left for next week or is it all filled or do

>> Alex McFarland: you know, Alex, do you know, tomorrow morning, Tuesday morning, if you call, they're going to know what's available. if there are any rooms left. There are some hotels across the highway. the Cove generally fills up all the lodging they have, but there probably still is room. And let me just say this. Dr. Gary Habermas, an amazing man of God, one of the truly, one of the world's preeminent defenders of the Christian faith and the resurrection. We've had him on AFR before, and, his wife is very ill. We've been praying for her. And, it's a pretty rare opportunity to spend a few days and get mentored in apologetics by Gary Habermas himself. So if you can make it to Asheville, North Carolina next Monday, we'd love for you to come, but call

>> Bert Harper: the Cove make sure. Okay, well, let's go to the phone lines. And we're going to Missouri first. And it's Steve. Steve, thank you for calling. Go right ahead.

>> : Well, thank you for taking my call. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for always answering my questions so I don't scratch my head raw trying to figure stuff out. More than you know. I was reading Isaiah 49:1 through 26, and it says, before I was born, the Lord called me from my birth. He has made mention of my name. Speaking of Jesus, I'm. I'm assuming, but I'm also assuming that they're talking about him being born in his physical body, not being born spiritually. Am I thinking about that? Right?

>> Alex McFarland: yeah, I think so. I think so, because, you know, basically Isaiah 49 is about salvation. I love verse six that says my salvation may reach to the end of the earth. you know, and it goes on. I think there's so much about, well, not only God, but Israel too. If you read 5 and following of Isaiah 49, you know that, Israel is a tool in the hand of God. And then verse six, it is too small a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, to restore the preserved ones of Israel. I will also make you a light of the nations, so that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth. So, in a way, Bert, you know, Israel was raised up to be the evangelists of the world. But listen, to me, O islands, pay attention. This is back to verse one. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother. He made me. In a way, I think, you know, it's really talking about the nation of Israel. That is, you know, they were entrusted with the oracles of God, the word of God, and they were that, voice of God, truth and salvation to the world.

>> Bert Harper: Well, Alex, again, in the Old Testament, especially with certain prophets and certain events, they have a duel, going forth. Okay? Ultimately, ultimately, it will always be the Messiah. The Messiah is the ultimate one. He is the Savior. Just like you said, Israel wants to be the messenger, to take the message of Jesus and let it go. But Jesus is the one. Now, today, the church is the one that takes the message of Christ. So when I see that, and especially from the, My version says matrix, new King James are from the inward parts of my mother. He has made mention of my name. he had. It's not that he started existing Jesus, but he already exists. But this is the incarnation that he would become a part of that. I think it's a duel. I don't. When I, There's several scriptures like that, Steve, that. Okay, looks like he's talking about two different things. Sometimes he is talking about what he's doing with Israel, what he's done with, what he's going to do when Jesus Christ comes. Thank you so much. Let's go to, Kansas and it's Ruth. Ruth, go right ahead.

>> : Okay. Thank you so much for your program. Appreciate it.

Wayne: Is this prophecy for the past or future

One thing, I was reading Isaiah also, And I'm in 15, Isaiah 15, and it starts talking about the burdens of various countries and goes on. And I'm wondering, is this a prophecy for the past, or is it a prophecy that can still continue in the present or future?

>> Alex McFarland: Okay, this is really about the judgment on Moab. In Isaiah, chapter 15, a lion upon the fugitives of Moab and upon the remnant of the land. I would say, for one thing, like you, just said, Bert, about things, it's. It's both. And verse, I mean, chapter 15 is about, you know, drought, the grass dies. There's no green thing. you know, they are judged. But then in 16 of Isaiah, there's going to be more and more judgment. You know, in a way, Bert, it kind of is. It almost sounds like some of the judgments that take place, during the tribulation, there's talk of, you know, a wine press being treaded out. And during the, the book of Revelation, during the tribulation, it talks about the. The wine press of God's wrath. in a way, the glory of MOAB destroyed, verse 13. To me, that almost sounds like, you know, the glory of Babylon being destroyed. While this really is, prophetic and it talks about Moab, I, in a way think it's Moab is almost analogous to the whole fallen world system that comes under the judgment of God at the end times. Am I allegorizing that too much?

>> Bert Harper: I don't think you are here. What you get in judgment, any judgment, the judgment of where? Wherever the country, individual, you get that judgment that is present. The Moab. Yes, it was present at that day. But it's a picture, and I'm using that word figurative as I can picture, of what's going to happen worldwide, you know, and not just in the Bible. Look, this past weekend, Jen and I watched a movie concerning Nazi Germany and how they were treating Poland at the beginning. And you look at that and say, look at that judgment. I mean, they felt like they were under great tribulation at that point, point in time. But it was localized. So what you have, you have localized judgment of Moab, but it's also representative of worldwide judgment that is coming. again, I, I'm not trying to be both and. But yeah, when you read it, it seems that way.

>> Alex McFarland: Alex, I want to give a word. I know we've got more calls, and by the way, the number is triple 858-98-8840. in Deuteronomy 37, there's a fascinating, A, warning to Israel. If you fall away, you, will become a byword. Now what By W O R D. And it's a fascinating Hebrew word, but it really means a taunt or something that is like instantly, you Know, and I'll give you what I mean here. Like, if there's a place that's really evil and bad, they'll say, oh, that's a real Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, because we know how bad that is. Or, or, you know, if, if they're going to talk about something good, they'll say, you know, well, he entered the promised land, you know, which, Israel under King Solomon was really very pictorial of the reign, the millennial reign of Christ. And so I get it. What you mean both and, and many of the scriptures are like that, that they, they have an immediate application, but even then, an ultimate, prophetic, truth as well.

>> Bert Harper: I found out that's the only way I can look at it and see if I don't. It's like, okay, I'm stuck there with either or. No, it seems like both in on those cases. Let's go to Louisiana and talk to Wayne. Wayne, thank you for calling. Exploring the Word. Go right ahead.

>> : Yes, sir.

John 20:23 says if you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven

I have a question on Jon, chapter 20 and verse 23, where it says, whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted unto them, and whosoever sins you retain and retain. I wanted to find out. And y' all believe that that's has to do with water baptism or what, do y' all have scriptures on it that, you know, out of mouth or two or three witnesses, let every word be established. They all have a couple scriptures for me to go with that.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay, let me read this. If you don't mind a, great question. Jon 20:23, Jesus tells the disciples, if you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. And so I think this deals a lot with the way that not only we are forgiven, in Christ, because only God can forgive sins. we don't have the power to absolve someone's sins for them. And God. Now, obviously we can forgive, and we should forgive people if they do something against us. But, the way that we are the, remitters of forgiveness, if you will, is not that we have the power to absolve anyone of their guilt before God, but we're the messengers. that in a way, you know, Bert, we are the messengers of salvation. We can't save, we can't forgive. But we can certainly tell everybody the one who can, who is Jesus. And in fact, I got to say this too, regarding our forgiving of sins, of if somebody does something against us. Matthew 18:22 says, we're to forgive other people 70 times 7, aren't we?

>> Bert Harper: We are. Peter thought he had it. Had it down pat when he said seven. And Jesus put him in his place. Let me again I'm going to do. Here's what I do and what I was taught. Wayne, you look at the Scriptures before and after. Notice what he said in verse 19. peace be with you. The Holy Spirit's coming on you. Verse 21. Peace to you. As the Father has sent me, I also send you. This is similar to what Alex was saying. You're on mission for God. Now, how is that going to take place? Look what he says in verse 22. Receive the Holy Spirit. Now, I believe the Holy Spirit was there. Now, the Holy Spirit fell in power and birthed the church in Acts 2 Pentecost. But here it says, you're on mission for God and you're to carry this message to them. As Alex said, not the power to do so, but the message to know, so they can receive this forgiveness.

>> : How?

>> Bert Harper: Through the power of the Holy Spirit. So they can be, what, at peace with God. Well, Alex, when I read all that together and what you said and what comes before, it really makes our importance of our message, of the gospel to the world. Wayne, we hope that helps, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: I don't think Jon 20:23 has anything whatsoever to do with water baptism, though. He asked that? Yeah.

>> Bert Harper: Ah, I don't see that at all either. Thank you, Wayne. I mean it, brother. Appreciate you calling Jacqueline in Mississippi. Go right ahead, Jacqueline.

>> : Well, I think you all just answered it. Praise ye the Lord. I called last week and didn't get the same question. Thanks for talking about the Holy Spirit, but that is my question.

>> : You just said about Acts 2:38 and

>> : Acts 1 and 8. But I wanted to know, on Acts 10, where. Where Cornelius cried out to the Lord and he was a good man, but good don't get you to heaven. And the holy God hit God heard his prayer and sent the angel to him. And he kind of had to fix Peter's heart to go to him. I'm a paraphrasing now to him, because he said, call anything that I create and unclean. And he had him to go to sleep and he went to the house. My point is that whole house, when Peter was obedient and went and they stopped praying, they said the, Kania's whole household.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> : I guess what I'm saying about can one person, like when you're going into the church, me being saved, sanctified, and filled the Holy Spirit. And I'm just saying we don't do enough teaching on it. So if they did it, then they can do it. Now when I say we, I'm talking. Coming.

>> : Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Jacqueline, we're gonn. We're going to thank you for calling, Alex.

>> Bert Harper: Go right ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Oh yeah, I love this. You know, and the thing about in Acts 10, there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion. I love verse 2. A devout man and one who feared God with all his household. He had responded to the light that he knew. And God sent him complete light, didn't he did.

>> Bert Harper: This is one of the greatest teachings. This, the Ethiopian eunuch. you see here, in Acts 10 go to Acts 16 about the Macedonia call. When there's this desire from someone, God's going to give them more light if they've responded to the light that's been given them. Rich, Jimmy, sorry we couldn't get to your calls tomorrow. We'd love to hear from you brothers. I'm just tell you that. Well, Alex, I'm glad you had a great time at the Cove We appreciate all of our listeners, those that go and hear you. and so we say thank you. So tomorrow we're going to continue studying the word of God. So I'm looking forward to it, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Me too. Folks, thanks for listening to Exploring the Word and we value your prayers for the American Family Radio Network that God is using to touch millions of listeners every day. We give God all the praise.

Preborn helps rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ

Hey, if you would tell somebody about Exploring the Word but most of all, tell everybody about Jesus. The views and opinions expressed in this

>> : broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of

>> Alex McFarland: the American Family association or American Family Radio.

>> Bert Harper: PreBorn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year PreBorn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com afr.

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