Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions next hour

>> Speaker A: The Bible. It's the word of God.

>> Bert Harper: Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the.

>> Speaker A: Next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

This edition of Exploring the Word comes from Nashville, Tennessee

Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, a verse that we Love is Matthew 16:18, where Christ said, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Well, with that verse and we'll have a great discussion around it. We welcome you to today's edition of Exploring the Word live coming to you from national religious broadcasters in Nashville, Tennessee. Bert, it's great to be with you. It's great to be at this incredible convention, but it's always a blessing to be live with you. not a thousand miles apart, you know. But how's your convention going, Bert?

>> Bert Harper: It is going good. We spent, let me see, three hours, three times program exploring missions and we've been recording those. Now where we record those is on the floor. And so this is much quieter. You don't hear all the ambiance. Now if you want to make it sound good, you say ambiance. But if you tell the truth, just a bunch of noise, a bunch of noise all around us. And coming up here where it's quiet, it's, it's easier to concentrate. But it's going great. Met some great people indeed.

>> Alex McFarland: The thing that excites me are all around the lobby, prayer huddles, ministries from around the world, great Christian leaders. And yeah, they're, you know, recording programs like you and I are doing. And although this is live, but they're praying for a move of God. And you know, we've got with us right now in the studio here in a hotel room, a, man of God who's got a brand new book, Dr. Eric Wallace, the the Heart of Apostasy. And we'll get into what this book is about, but first of all, our fellow laborer in God's fields of harvest, Dr. Eric Wallace.

Alex Burke was called to preach when he was 16

Welcome to the American Family Radio Network.

>> Speaker A: thank you for having me. Alex Burke.

>> Bert Harper: It's good. I fist bump.

>> Barry Maguire: Okay.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah. It's good to have you, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: So you're a pastor, an academic, you've, taught at Elmhurst College in North park in Chicago, and you're an author. And I want to get into your talk about it, but tell us a bit of your journey and how, how the Lord brought you to where you are.

>> Speaker A: Wow. How long Is your show.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Speaker A: I mean, I actually wrote a book about that too.

>> Bert Harper: What's the name of that book?

>> Speaker A: Integrity of Faith. Okay, go there and they can all be found on the website, freedom journal institute.org.

>> Bert Harper: Okay.

>> Speaker A: Free that.

>> Bert Harper: We'll ask that one more time.

>> Speaker A: Okay, go. so, you know, I was called to preach when I was. I gave my life to the lord. I was 16. And I was called to preach when I was 17.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Speaker A: I didn't know anything and I came across. So I started going to church at a friend of mine's church. We had met at Howard University, still in high school, but we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do when we grew up. Right. And my mother was like, you like to take stuff apart, so why don't you, check out engineering and electrical engineering. And so Howard University had a. Ah. And, ah. So we lived in Virginia at the time. So Howard University. And my parents were academics at Howard University. And so again, I had to stop because we got remission of tuition. So that's what made it really, really interesting. so I went to a summer program that was there two weeks away from, from home and staying on a college campus. And I met this guy, Walter Bell. He knew the Lord. His father was a preacher. And long story short, he gave me this tract called the NewSong Birth. I read it a number of times. And then I prayed and asked Christ into my life. I go in the book and, in my biography and I talk about how I had this dream that I had an encounter with the evil one, Satan, on the high school football field where he was actually looking not at me. So I was standing in between the bleachers and the football, game. There was a football field. There was a game. I wasn't paying attention to the game. I was looking at this, this guy in the red suit with, you know, the, the horns and the pitch.

>> Alex McFarland: So you had this dream. Yeah, a real dream. Okay.

>> Speaker A: And so, he was looking at the bleachers. I was looking at the back of his head. He started to turn like he was going to look at me. And I was scared to death. I woke up in cold sweat, pulled the covers over my head. Now I was again, I was 16 years old.

>> Bert Harper: I didn't know that that dream would scare anybody, brother.

>> Speaker A: But I asked God to save me, to protect me. And once that was over, I felt this sense of calm come over and that I actually understood that it had taken. Whatever was supposed to happen happened, and it was later when I fully felt a real full commitment to serving Christ as a minister of the gospel. I watched 700 Club a lot. I used to like Ben Kinslow. Because he looked something like me.

>> Bert Harper: Well, I didn't see that.

>> Speaker A: And he wasn't hooping and hollering and stuff on tv. And so, they had a special program on with Bill Bright, and he was talking to the conference Crusade for Christmas. And he challenged those college, students, if they were willing to give their life for the Lord, even if it meant they may lose their life, to stand up. And I was so moved by it. In the basement of my mother's townhouse, I stood up. And I trace it back to that moment where I decided I was going to serve the Lord. Whatever he called me to do, he called me into preaching. I left Howard University, eventually went to Howard. I left Howard to go to Washington Bible College. To find out what the Bible had to say. Because I figure if I'm going to preach, I need to know what it has to say.

Dr. Wallace writes about how black churches abandoned biblical authority for political ideology

>> Alex McFarland: That's a good combo, you know, I want to read the subtitle of your book and I want to say thank you for addressing this. And there's much, much I could say. For years I've had real concerns. The Heart of Apostasy is the title of Dr. Wallace's book. Now listen to the subtitle, folks. How the Black Church Abandoned Biblical Authority for Political Ideology and How to Reclaim It. And, you know, we've had another Christian colleague and friend, Dr. Carol Swaim, who earned her PhD at Harvard, I believe. And she, shared the story of how when she really became vocal about biblical authority and truly living for Jesus by the word of God, it cost her some relationships within the black community. And so, let's just start because, you know, the only agenda any of us have, or should have, I should say, is Jesus Christ. Amen and his word.

So the premise of your book and the concerns of your heart relative to this content

So the premise of your book and the concerns of your heart relative to this content.

>> Speaker A: Well, basically the idea that. Excuse me. That you. So, I use. So the book looks at the foundation of the book is the Gospel of Luke, which is a paper I wrote, on one of the themes of Luke called promise and fulfillment, which I wrote when I was in my PhD program and, and I had to write it because I flunked one of my exams.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay.

>> Speaker A: So this is also one of those stories that shows you how God will sometimes use what you think is a negative thing to all of a sudden turn out to be positive because I would never would have written his paper if I hadn't flunked that exam on the Gospels. Right.

>> Bert Harper: There it is again. John turning something good into something he thought was bad.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, right.

>> Bert Harper: He did it again.

>> Speaker A: And so I wrote this book, looked at it, a promise and fulfillment. And I realized as I'm, you, know, 20 something years later, that this is actually a microcosm of the church. Even today, Luke is writing to people who were wondering, when is Jesus coming back?

>> Bert Harper: Right.

>> Speaker A: They're looking at their apple watches wanting. You know, he just left not too long ago. He said he was going to return. So where is he? and he writes to Theophilus saying certain things had to happen. because I'm sure people are starting to question was this really of God, you know, was he, you know, the scandal of the cross, you know, and so Luke talks about, you know, he's done his research, he's looked at stuff and stuff. That's a technical term.

>> Bert Harper: I recognize it.

>> Speaker A: Thank you. And that, so it's like today's church. We're living in a time where we're still waiting for the return of Christ. And the question is, how do we live our lives out in the midst of the. Of the delay. There's been a delay. And we're living in a society community that's hostile to the gospel. As in, as in Luke's day. but of course in Luke's day, people are being killed for their faith, right? apostles are being martyred, which you would start wondering, okay, where is Jesus? Why are these folks, followers of Christ, being persecuted and some even being killed? So, I use that as the foundation, saying this is promise, and fulfillment. And then I look at chapter eight and look at the parable of the sower and start looking at the various, grounds which I give them, names. So I talk about. So they talk about the condition of a person's heart. And my argument in the book is that the condition of your heart determines how you hear, and how you hear determines how you grow. If you're not hearing the word of God right, you will not grow. And I feel that's where the black church is, and that's where the church is in general. I look at the black church as a microcosm of the larger church.

>> Barry Maguire: It really is.

>> Speaker A: What's happening in the black church is also happening. And there's really no such thing as a black church versus white church.

>> Bert Harper: Praise the Lord.

>> Speaker A: The only thing, the reason is because of, unfortunately, our racist history where we forced blacks to either sit in the back of the church or, you couldn't. Certain things you could or couldn't do. And so black people just went out and started their own, like the AME Church and others and then black Baptist denominations and things like that. but, you know, when we get to heaven.

>> Barry Maguire: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: It's fun to see a church that has already demonstrated that of having different ethnicities together and sharing together. Did it start then, when they started their own church because of the. I would say that, you know, the I. Putting down the black community, thinking, well, they are less than. And they wanted to rise up, and did they. Did they lose track of what Jesus wanted to do? I just.

>> Speaker A: Well, unfortunately, you know, the argument be made is, unfortunately, there are certain white churches misunderstood what Jesus wanted and didn't apply the imago DEI to black people as well as others. And so this whole idea about white supremacy came up. And I say that in my book, that that's a myth. white supremacy is a myth that somebody else thought up. It's not. It's not scriptural. There's nothing. There's nothing there. We're all created in the image and likeness of God. Right. He didn't say. He didn't say it was just black people. He didn't say it was just white people. And I know the late Vodi Bakam says, you know, you shouldn't be ashamed that God didn't give you as much melanin as he gave us. So.

>> Barry Maguire: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

Williams: Satan uses political ideologies to suppress the saving message of Jesus

>> Speaker A: I'm not sure I've answered your question, though, because I think it was a little bit more about, well, let's.

>> Alex McFarland: What is the word? Apostasy.

>> Speaker A: And we talk about falling away.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah.

>> Speaker A: So when we look at. So back to the parable, the sower. So you've got the sea that falls on the, that falls on the, on the road. And Satan comes and takes it. So they don't believe. I don't think those are believers at all. But I think there are people in the church who are like that, who stuff gets preached and it doesn't. It doesn't do anything.

>> Alex McFarland: And, you know, isn't it sad that, Satan would use the political ideologies, whatever they be, to divide people, to suppress the saving message of faith in Jesus? And, you know, politics, it can be used for good or for ill, but, it's a sad thing when it becomes a wedge between people and Jesus.

>> Speaker A: Amen. Amen. And my argument is that we've allowed, the pigmentation of our skin to supersede anything else. It's, it's more important, excuse me, for black people to, at least that's what we're being told, that we're not fully free. And if you, you know, black, Black Lives Matter was saying, we step outside the house, you know, there are police that you want to arrest you. There's all these, you know, white people are trying to undermine, everything we do. And there's a lot of people that really believe that. And I try and ask, I said, what is it that white people can do that black people can't? Please tell me what it is.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Hey, we're, we're enjoying this conversation. We have Dr. Eric, Williams, Dr. Eric Wallace. Wallace. I got the W. Right.

>> Alex McFarland: And the Freedoms Journal Institute. What's the website again for Freedoms Journal Institute?

>> Speaker A: Freedomjournalinstitute.org with an S freedomsjournalinstitute.org powerful stuff.

>> Alex McFarland: Stay tuned. Exploring the Word. We'll return after this.

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Burt Harper: Apostasy always surrounds Jesus Christ

Welcome back to Exploring the Word. This is Burt Harper along with Dr. Alex McFarland and we're here in Nashville, Tennessee. We at the NRD, the National Religious Broadcasters meeting. We've had a great day today. Started off last night. Did either one of you guys get to go to the worship service last night? Okay.

>> Speaker A: Yes.

>> Bert Harper: Listen, that preacher preached. H.P. charles, listen. He did it. And this is what you. And this is connected to what we're talking about. and he just delivered the word of God. And what he said is similar to what we talked about during our, three minute break. When you go by the scriptures and you make much of Jesus, there is that power that. And if the church misses that, they're going to be weak and they will always be concerning apostasy. Apostasy always surrounds Jesus Christ. Really does, who he is, what he's done, how he's our creator and redeemer. And Dr. Eric Wallace is here to talk about that. The heart of apostasy. And, is the first place you get off. And again, I don't know who Jesus is in the Bible being the word of God. I don't know if they may be parallel with one another, but those two issues, you get either one of those wrong, you're going to have apostasy, aren't you?

>> Speaker A: Amen. But Alex asked me, about apostasy last time. I didn't really get a chance to answer that question.

So as we look at the parable of the Sower, there are four different ground

So as we look at the parable of the Sower, four different types of ground, and I give them different names. So based on the heart, based on the heart condition. So the first one is the detached, heart, detached from any spirituality. M. You know, the seed comes and it gets taken away before they can even believe. The second is what falls on the rock and it starts to grow. It starts to grow with joy. But then the testing comes, the trials come and it falls away because it doesn't have, roots that go down. The word for that is apostasy. And so it falls away. the second, excuse me. The third is what I call the disillusioned heart because it falls among the thorns. And it's because the cares, the riches and forget what the third one is, of. Of the, let me see. Riches, the cares and something about the, pleasures of life.

>> Bert Harper: Pleasures.

>> Speaker A: Pleasures of life end up distracting them. And they don't bring any fruit, to maturity. And I think that's where a lot of the churches are. They've been distracted. The whole civil rights, the whole we're not free, the whole that black people have to stick together. Even if they're black people that don't agree with us on these issues, even black people who are not Christians, we've been allowing them. So I talked about that in chapter two. We allow Black Lives Matter to talk about how we need to stick together. And we're busy following why are we following Black Lives Matter when they clearly, at least two of the three are known to be lesbians and all of them are Marxists.

>> Bert Harper: Right.

>> Speaker A: Why are we listening to people that don't know Christ? And they'll tell you, at least Patrisse Cullors did was saying that, they're involved in ancestor worship. Why would anybody who follows Jesus follow anybody who's following, ancestor worship, says they're lesbian and says they were trained Marxist. It makes no sense to me. And so I also look at, There's two books, that I talk. Well, a couple of books I talk about in chapter two, but two that stand out. One of them is called Steadfast Democrats. And there are Democrats that do this study to figure out how it is that the Democrat party's been to hold. Been able to hold on to so much like 90% of the black vote when most black people are conservative.

>> Alex McFarland: They are.

>> Speaker A: They're pro traditional marriage, they're pro life, they're pro second Amendment because they want to have guns to be able to protect themselves. they're pro work. If you're going to get, welfare, you should be able to work. you shouldn't be getting it if you're able to work. and there sometimes should be some work requirements. and so they do the study and they figured out this thing they call racialized social constraint, which is a highfalutin, ah, way of saying peer pressure.

>> Alex McFarland: Say that term again.

>> Speaker A: That's a racialized social constraint is what they came up with.

>> Bert Harper: You know, they have to rob the real words and put fake words on. you know what I mean? That's what they do. Because if we knew the reality, we wouldn't be. And I say white and black, no matter who it is, we'd be blinded so much.

Dr. Wallace says reception for his new book has been great

>> Alex McFarland: Dr. Wallace, even as we're doing this show, just 24 hours ago, there was the passing of Reverend Jesse Jackson. And, you know, Jesse Jackson was a dominant figure on the American political landscape. And so I was coming into the Greensboro airport, this is probably about 2018. And he was there in Greensboro to speak at, hbcu. Yes. Okay. There are two colleges. One is Bennett College, a Methodist school, historically black university, and then North Carolina A and T, from which Reverend Jackson graduated. and I've spoken at both of those schools. But, anyway, I saw Jesse Jackson at the baggage claim in the Greensboro airport. And I walked over to him. And not, confrontational, but I said, reverend Jackson, and he said hello. And I said, I'm a preacher too. May I ask you a question? And I said, when's the last time you led a soul to Jesus? And he looked at me, our eyes met and there was a silence. And he whispered to one of his guys. He basically whispered, get that guy away from me. Now. I wasn't trying to be confrontational, but, I think about, and I'm just, you know, I love Jesus, but I think about Jesse Jackson, Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend Raphael Warnock, that can always be counted on to take a hyper left position. Pro choice, pro lgbtq, trans. And I guess, I know it's probably impossible for a Caucasian preacher like me to get their ear and I sort of understand. But like yourself, I just want to say thank you. As a black Christian conservative, a true bonafide academic, yourself and others that I know, I've got to ask. This is hard truth. You're speaking hard truth.

>> Alex McFarland: What's been the reception?

>> Speaker A: Well, with the. So the reception has been great amongst people who agree with me.

>> Alex McFarland: The Bible is our authority.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, they're clapping and saying, yes, thank God somebody is talking about this. I've had just two interviews so far though, from people who don't just agree with me, but they have been. I've appreciated the conversation and I want to have the. I appreciate the hand clapping and everything from those who agree with me. what I also appreciate is those who disagree with me but are willing to sit down and have the discussion anyway. And I just came from Fisk University, a historical black university, and the person on there didn't really agree with me actually, as she was reading my bio. I think there's something in there that says that I've, I've spoken out against critical race theory. And she kind of laughed at that. She chuckled and it wasn't, you know, I agree with you chuckle. It's like, really, you disagree with critical race theory? Now we didn't talk about that on, but she knew kind of where I was coming from. And it says on there that I've run for office before as a Republican. And so she knew right away that we were in different camps and so did I. I didn't know until I got there. But you know, I figured it was on Fisk. But I was excited about going. I was excited about having the conversation and I'm excited, hoping it opens up more doors for me to have the conversation. And I think this book is speaking prophetically to the church in general and the black church in particular. And when the prophets spoke, they didn't always speak nice.

>> Bert Harper: That's true.

>> Speaker A: They pointed out truth and said, this is what you're doing and you're promoting a different Christ than what is in the gospel.

>> Bert Harper: When you hear either professors, politicians, pastors that have bought into the lies that. And when I say lies, I'm talking about that which is against the word of God. or that when you talk about, when you have these discussions, do they, do they really hear you or are they just. I heard this. They listen to answer or listen to learn. Are they listening to answer?

>> Speaker A: Well, we're kind of at the beginning. The book was just published at the end of last year.

>> Bert Harper: Okay.

>> Speaker A: And so, we didn't do much over the holidays. Right. Because people aren't really paying much attention. So now what we're planning to do is go across the nation and do a book signing tour and hopefully have people come, buy the book. I'll sign it. But we've also had people who have, bought copies of the book for me to give away to certain pastors who normally wouldn't purchase it, but kind of do, the idea of read this and show me where I'm wrong.

>> Alex McFarland: Sure, sure.

>> Speaker A: And then we'll have the discussion about, you know, what does the Bible say about these things. Now, people who don't care about the Bible, such as the Al Sharpton's and the Raphael Warnocks, we're really not going to have much of a conversation. But those who say they're born again believers and believe the word to be the word of God, they'll have to then wrestle with it. And I want them to wrestle with it. I want other folks who, maybe not pastors, but people who sit in the pew who read it to have to wrestle with it. Because I actually walk through the Gospel of Luke and it's almost like a mini commentary. Now I don't talk about everything in Luke. It would be a lot thicker than what it is right now. It would be.

>> Bert Harper: Well, when the word of God is given, it has authority. It's true. And therefore, whether they agree or not agree, it's still the word of God. And the word of God goes forth whether you believe it or not. And it does a work in their heart. So I keep, it up, brother.

>> Speaker A: Amen.

What would happen if the Holy Spirit united the church? I believe it would

>> Alex McFarland: You know, in John 17:21 is one of my favorite verses about unity in the body of Christ Jesus. he's on his way to the cross and he prays, Father, that they all may be one, that the world may Believe you have sent me. what would happen if the Holy Spirit did a major work and united the church? I mean, under the banner of Jesus and his Word? I believe it would transform the globe.

>> Speaker A: Well, I think, one of the things, one of the reasons why I wrote the book. Well, let me say this. It's interesting how God works. I already told you about how I wrote this paper a long time ago. And now it becomes the foundation, for the book itself. But the book is not a one off. We ended up writing the book and then when I finished writing it, we had already been in production on a documentary called Black Families Reclaiming a Community in Crisis.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Speaker A: Right?

>> Bert Harper: Yes.

>> Speaker A: and then we had, on the shelf, I had some ideas. You know, sometimes God gives you ideas for stuff and it's just not time yet. And so you just kind of put it up there, say, well, okay, Lord, whenever it's time, you know, you know, let me know and I'll pull it down.

We've got another thing we call Repent Chicago. And I talk about not only the black church repenting

We've got another thing we call Repent Chicago. And so, I was trying to figure out, okay, God, how are these connected? And, I started looking at it and realizing that the book is kind of theological foundation for starting to ask the question, you know, how we've, how we've missed the mark and that we need to repent. And I talk about not only the black church repenting, but white churches as well, any ethnic group. We need to repent for things we haven't done that we should have and things we've done that we shouldn't have. Right. The documentary actually shows you what happens when you start, abdicating what you're supposed to do and you give it over to the federal government. So we take in the documentary, we take a look at how, you know, the Monahan Report came out and said, hey, we've got 24% of black children are being born out of wedlock.

>> Speaker A: Right now it's over 70%. So once the government got involved with welfare, it made things even worse. So it shows you what actually happened. Repent Chicago will be that place where the churches come together and say, father, we've messed up. We've allowed the federal government to start doing things that they can't do. They don't have the answers. The answer is actually the family. a husband and a mother in the home and they're having children. And then after that we've got this thing called Rise Chicago, which we have called the Rise Principles. It stands for responsible government, individual liberty, and fidelity, strong family values and economic empowerment. And, and that becomes the discipleship tool. Because once people repent, you've got to have something for them to do. Right? It's turning away from one thing, but turning towards something else to do something different. And I'm excited about it. this is like a three year project, that we're looking at. and it's just that the black community, it's not like just the black community is dealing with these issues. A lot of communities are with dealing different, dealing with these issues. But it's like God is saying this is a microcosm of the larger society. And if you can get that right, it'll spill over in the rest of the community. And my hope that what happens in, repent Chicago, which is like Promise Keepers. Remember Promise Keepers? They had an event at Soldier Field that I actually went to many years ago, and we've got somebody on our board who was part of that. So he's chomping at the bit to want to do this.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Bring it back, brother.

American Family Radio Network welcomes Eric Wallace and Barry Maguire

>> Alex McFarland: Well, hey, national religious broadcasters. Alex McFarland, Burt Harper of the American Family Radio Network. Our guest, Dr. Eric Wallace. And we're also joined. I want to cue this up before this next break. Longtime friend. We visit with him every year at NRB. Barry Maguire. And his website is igniteamerica.com ignite America. This is, a man who, he's a one man force for evangelism. Barry, welcome.

>> Barry Maguire: Hey. this is the highlight of the trip. You know, I'm here for a week, but this is, this is, I've arrived now. I go home after this interview.

>> Bert Harper: I think this is about five or six times you've been.

>> Barry Maguire: We've been doing a lot.

>> Bert Harper: We have been.

>> Barry Maguire: And we, we do, we do interviews, all day long for four days in a row. Yeah, but this, seriously, I told these guys, yesterday that's my favorite interview. You guys, I love you. I love your hearts. And we always have a lot of fun talking together. We could turn this on at any moment, anytime during the day and have this a great conversation.

>> Bert Harper: Well, you, Eric, we're between two car guys now. Half of the conversation when we're not on the air, they're talking about cars.

>> Barry Maguire: And how to make them go, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. And God. Yeah. Okay. And the Lord Jesus Christ and get people saved.

>> Speaker A: Dr. Wallace, you're talking about Hot Wheels.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, when they get through with them, they are hot. They are. They are.

>> Alex McFarland: You know what I love about both of you? Both of you, folks, I wish you could see the smiling faces, the joy of the Lord. Because Jesus is our life, our foundation, and the joy of the Lord is our strength, isn't it?

>> Barry Maguire: Amen. Amen. Amen.

You can listen to AFR wherever you go with the AFR app

>> Bert Harper: Well, we've got another segment to go, so.

>> Barry Maguire: Oh, you do?

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, we do. Yeah. We didn't bring you on for two minutes, so we're going to do that. We want you to stay with us, Alex and Bert here. And we've got our guest that's different than usually exploring the word. We've got different guests, and so we're excited about that. And we'll be back.

>> Speaker A: The AFR app is a powerful tool, but it does have limitations. You can't use it to change the oil in your vehicle or get rid of carpet stains.

>> Alex McFarland: It won't walk the dog, won't pick.

>> Speaker A: Up the dry cleaning or take the kids to practice. But while you're doing those things, you can listen to your favorite AFR content through the app on your phone, smart device, or Roku. Just go to your app store or visit afr.net listen to AFR wherever you go with the AFR app.

>> Alex McFarland: In Christ alone, my hope is found. He is my light, my strength, my song, this cornerstone, this solid ground.

Barry Maguire: Let's get as many people into heaven

Welcome back to Exploring the Word, the American Family Radio Network coming to you live from NRB in Nashville, Tennessee. Bert, my heart is so overflowing with a dear friend and colleague. I gotta tell you this. It was 1982. I had my driver's license.

>> Barry Maguire: Oh, my.

>> Alex McFarland: I bought a 66 Ford for $250, and it didn't look like much, so I went down to Pleasant Garden hardware store, try to make my old car look better. I bought a, large bottle of McGuire's Car Wax in 1982. Little did I know.

>> Barry Maguire: Wow.

>> Alex McFarland: That I would meet the man. Barry Maguire. It's so good to see you.

>> Barry Maguire: It's great to be with you. And, Bert, I'll forgive you for not being a car guy. Hey, I drive. I. I love. Yeah, exactly. Love your heart. Love you both. And great to be back with you.

>> Alex McFarland: It's great to be back with you. Barry, one of the things I just so love about you is you're trying to populate heaven.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Barry Maguire: You know, Charlie, did a lot with that statement, let's make heaven crowded.

>> Alex McFarland: Charlie Kerr.

>> Barry Maguire: And, we. We say, move everybody every day closer to Jesus. That's what. That's what it's about.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: M. Your prayer, supplication, everything. But the bottom line is let's get as many people into heaven as we can before it's too late. And of course, we're running out of time. We don't know when that, that bell's gonna ring. So we, we need to get busy. And we're not doing a good, job of that as a church right now, as you're well known.

>> Bert Harper: You know, when you look at eschatology, I think one of the reasons he doesn't give you this, this, this is so we will stay on target. Because we do not know when do we?

>> Barry Maguire: Well, we don't. I love, I love the fact I don't want to know when that's right. But I live every day, one day at a time with God. I say that this is my age and whatever, but I think anybody should feel this way. I want to make God happy with me enough today that he'll give me another day. And, and that means every day is, is like your last day, and, and you want to make a difference. And I live with that sense all day, every day.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: And I'm happy to live day to day with him because it empowers me today to get the most out of today and to make sure I move everybody, not one person a day, move everybody every day closer to Jesus. If we'd all start doing that, if the Christians, there's about maybe 30 million of us that are born again Christians. Can you imagine if a million of us started doing that right now?

>> Bert Harper: Whoa.

>> Barry Maguire: I mean, we'd have revival.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, Barry, of anybody I know, you have such joy. Every time I'm ever with you, you're smiling. You're so full of joy. Where does that joy come from?

>> Barry Maguire: You know, it's really interesting question that takes me back to 1973. Karen and I, were with small kids, toddlers. And, we were still in church, you know, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, of course. But then extra nights. We were doing everything we could. We gave generously with our time, resources, and that all our lives. But we didn't have joy. And we knew we didn't have joy. In fact, we were getting dry. It didn't make any sense. And we started praying. God, what's wrong? Something's not working right here. It was almost looking back like we're trying to earn God's favor, which you can't do, of course. I mean, if we work harder, he'll love us more. You know, it's just God puts up with us and he laughs at us. But, we started praying for Joy. And as it happened, two weeks later, I'm sitting next to Herb Ellingwood, the legal Affairs Secretary for Governor Reagan. I give my M. AIDS away now. 1973. And, he was the speaker. And for an hour before he spoke, I'm sitting at the table with him nonstop. He was telling me, sharing his faith, sharing faith's story. And last night, you can't. I remember he was particularly excited about the one that just happened the night before. And he had so much fun. And I never understood that sharing faith was fun. We'd been doing it, but struggled with it. It's always nervous and hard, and I got to get the points down and, you know, and I get it all wrong. And where, God, where are you? And whatever. Oh. So I realized it's just fun. And the scripture came to me. You know, he said, they'll know you're my disciple, by your love, not by your expository, not by all the being. Whatever. There's no excuses, folks. We have a whole listing on our website, ignitedberry.com most frequent excuses. And, we have them all. You know, I don't know enough.

Dr. Wallace: What we do in this life has eternal implications

I haven't been trained. I'm not an extrovert. God destroys all that. He didn't say, go, ye who are hearing you.

>> Bert Harper: Let's. I want to ask you, keep your thought, joy and peace, perfect love. How they.

>> Barry Maguire: Boy, they work side by side. To finish that thought is, within a couple weeks, we're sharing our faith. I mean, we're starting to do it. There's how much I was with this person. I was that person. We started having fun with it. And one day we started laughing. We said, hey, we've got joy. And it was after. I love it when you find a scripture that confirms what you've just experienced. And this is one that we all know, the parable of the tree and the last parable he gave us, and it was talking about the dry branch. We won't go there. But when you're bearing fruit. Ah, therein. My joy will be with you. And your joy will be full.

>> Speaker A: Wow.

>> Barry Maguire: And you know what? We've been there since 1973.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, amen.

>> Barry Maguire: It's just. I mean, it never runs out. It will not run out if you're focused on his purpose. His purpose is not my purpose. Not selling car wax. I wouldn't do that. I do all the other types of things. But. But I will. He said, when you live for my purpose. Romans 8, 28. When you live. When you love me, you live for my purpose. His purpose is seek and save the lost. So Dr. Wells and myself, we're in the same business. We want to get people into heaven. People in Chicago, we pray for them. I mean, just broken hearted. But they need Jesus.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: And we need Christians in Chicago to rise up and say, I'm going to make a difference myself. I can't worry about government. I can make a difference right now. Start by moving everybody every day closer to Jesus. That goes wherever we're at.

>> Alex McFarland: We're in our mission field, Dr. Wallace, when, as a Christian, we're walking with the Lord, sharing the gospel. isn't it just, revolutionary to think that what we do in this life has eternal implications?

>> Speaker A: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: helping somebody find salvation, helping people know who Jesus is, just like Barry's doing, just like Bert. And we're all wanting to do what we do has eternal implications.

>> Barry Maguire: Everything.

>> Speaker A: Absolutely. And what we're trying to do is take it. When, when Barry makes, a Christian, we want to help disciple them so they can do it. He didn't say make converts, he said make disciples. So we've got to teach people what it means to live out. As I talked about before, Luke is writing to people to understand what do we do in the midst of delay. We talked about the delay of Jesus coming back.

>> Bert Harper: Yes.

>> Speaker A: That they were starting to worry about that. I said they were looking at their watches, thinking, okay, he just left. He's only been gone for a few weeks. Right. Where is he? A couple of months, maybe. It's been a year or so. I don't know how long it's been, but it's been a while. And the question is, how do we live our lives in the midst of delay, in a hostile, community, in a hostile situation, that they had and that we have today. And, I think some people within the black church, and I pick on the black church because that's. I'm concerned about them. and I think that they've, abdicated a lot to the federal government. they've abdicated a lot. To quote their leaders, such as Dr. King and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and some of these others. I know some of you are surprised I threw Dr. King in there as well. But we know that Dr. King wasn't. As much as he revered some of his speeches and things like that. he was not an orthodox Christian. He was not. He did not believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection of Jesus or the Trinity. So there's issues with that. And we need to come to terms with that. And I'm challenging the church in general and the black church in particular, to stand 10 toes down on the gospel of who Jesus is. That there's nothing more important than to have a relationship with. With Christ. your ethnicity does not come before that. You're not a black person who happens.

>> Barry Maguire: To be a Christian.

>> Speaker A: You're a Christian that happens to be black.

The Great Commission is to go out and tell people about Jesus

Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, when we hear that being told in your book about the heart of apostasy, it's because the heart has been turned. I mean, I think there's more than a play on words here you're looking at. But if your heart is wrong, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he, so is he. And so the importance of the gospel being shared, followed up with discipleship from the word of God. we all need to get on board, don't we? Black and white, Barry. No one's excluded.

>> Barry Maguire: Well, it is the Great Commission.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: You know, the Great Commission wasn't to go read your Bible or pray. I mean, those are all critical. The commission is to go out and tell people about Jesus. When they ask him, what's the most important thing to do? What's the most important commandment? Teacher, what's the most important commandment? He said, of course, love your neighbor is as much as important as loving me. If you love God, you're gonna love your neighbor. I mean, if you love God, whatever you love, whatever you're excited about, you're gonna talk about. It's just, you can't separate the two. I tell people, if you're not sharing God, if you're not come out to Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: You're not.

>> Barry Maguire: He's not your most success. You have another first love. Whatever you talk about, whatever fills your prayers is your. Your first love. I want to get to this point of discipleship because it's really critically important. You know, when you get somebody. There's a million discipleship programs out there. But, the fact of the matter is, every Christian knows they should be in prayer and be in the Word every day. But there's a million excuses. I have to do this. I have to do this. I got to teach kids homework at night. God, you understand? And preach. It's weeks and months. And whatever. I tell you what, you'll be in the Word every day. You'll be sharing. You'll be, praying every day when you're sharing your faith. It's the greatest discipleship program because when you have God, people asking you questions all day long, and you have miracles coming and God's bringing people into your life and you're sharing with them and you're seeing lives being changed because you're praying for Bob and thank you for bringing Susie in my life and God and give me the words to say for the people tomorrow that I'm going to meet. You're in the game and you're self discipling. Get this. You self decide not because of routine or obligation or religiosity, but because you can't get enough of God when you're in the game. And I'll just close it with the scripture. That's so powerful. Why does he want us to share our faith? Why do you know? It's secondarily to win the lost. It's secondarily to win the loss. Isaiah 43:10 says it very plainly. thus saith the Lord, I appoint you as my witness so that you will believe. So that you believe.

>> Speaker A: Why?

>> Barry Maguire: Because when you are loving on people and they open up and share a need and God gives you the words to give back to them and you realize you're right where God wants you to be and he's giving you the word to say, that's intimacy with God.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: And there's nothing else, folks. Have you not experienced that once? You don't even know the joy of being a Christian. That just lights you on fire. And I gotta tell you, 50 years later, when you're 84 years of age, you still got the joy every day. Because. And we are networking with thousands of you all over the United States that have the joy. We can look at all the problems, we look at all the wrong. We can't change the world, but we can change our world one person at a time. And we focus on that. Every day is a good day. I don't care what goes on. Every day is a good day.

>> Bert Harper: I think I needed him today.

>> Speaker A: He set me on fire sitting next to him.

>> Barry Maguire: Can I add one more thing?

>> Alex McFarland: Okay.

>> Barry Maguire: We say it'll ignite your life.

>> Alex McFarland: Ignite.

>> Barry Maguire: And, and by the way, it's a good name for a book.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay.

>> Barry Maguire: I wrote it.

>> Alex McFarland: Folks, the voice you're hearing is our beloved friend, Barry McGuire. Ignite America dot com. we're just lifting up Jesus here.

Charlie Kirk: I think the church has lost this outreach

You had a thought?

>> Speaker A: Yeah. As he's talking, I thought about one of the ways which I, asked the church. I think the church has lost this. As part of their outreach, the folks, it's feeding people. We've abdicated that to the federal government. Said, let the federal government Feed people, let it give them food and stuff like that. Especially in the black church. My thing is, look, Jesus sat down and ate with sinners. He sat down and communicated with them. I said, if we would do more of that instead of just giving them groceries and say, go home, actually, do meals and have them come in. And you know what happens with Transform? The church is sitting down with the homeless that come in or the poor or whoever it is that needs a meal. Sit down with them and be the voice and the person of Jesus for them. You know what would happen to that? What would happen to the person who comes to sit down? They would see the love of Jesus demonstrated.

>> Barry Maguire: Right? Absolutely. Amen.

>> Speaker A: And the person who's being used by God what, all of a sudden caught on fire because they're being used by God and they're seeing a difference happen in a person's life, but they may not see it with everybody who comes through. But we've lost that. And that's why our churches are falling asleep. We come to church on Sunday and.

>> Barry Maguire: We go home, check, check it off, and that's it. No, we have. We are the church.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: And, all of us are surrounded by lost. 90% of the people around us every day we're in a store, wherever we're at, you look around. 90% of our lost. We're sitting on our phone. Put the phone away and start looking for people. He'll lead you into these conversations. Whoever you're with, Lionel, Starbucks, whatever. You could have so many five minute conversations in a given day. You'll be shocked when you just look around and you know what? They want to talk. And they're all, thank you, Charlie Kirk. You know, because of Charlie, the whole world's looking for God right now. I mean, there was a purpose in his passage, horrible as it was. He was a good friend of mine.

>> Alex McFarland: Same here.

>> Barry Maguire: But it's just amazing how people are looking for God. And when you love on them, they open up. And we have this excuse, we, this opportunity. Pastors say, well, you're a lame. And you get to do that. I don't have. I said, do you not go to Starbucks? Do you not go to restaurants? Or you're never in a waiting room? You know, we all can do this. Everybody move. Everybody. Everybody that's close to us. God's bringing, it's supernatural. He'll bring them into your life. You bring them under your umbrella and when you love on them, they open up, you open up. And those are holy moments that not only explore them, but ignites your life. And that's. We want a church full of ignited Christians. That's how we get there.

>> Bert Harper: So you will not be evangelistic if you believe in apostasy. Have I figured this out?

>> Barry Maguire: I think that's a straight line. I think that's that. I think we got that one down.

>> Bert Harper: That's what I've heard, having these two guys together. Alex, you know.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. I gotta ask you some time. Fleet's way is such a blessing. And folks, you can listen again to this show on afr.net as in American Family Radio.

What would be your prayer for America at this moment? For souls

Brother Barry, if you could pray for America and God said, sky's the limit, what would be. What would be your prayer for our nation at this moment?

>> Barry Maguire: For souls? We pray for so many things. That's wonderful. And causes and the border situation, the trafficking situation, the abortion situation. They're all heart wrenching. If we get America right with God, all those will go away.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Ed Wallace, your prayer for America.

>> Speaker A: revival that God. That. That God will revive the church so that the church goes out and does.

>> Barry Maguire: What it's supposed to do.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Barry Maguire: M. Same message.

>> Alex McFarland: I want to go share the gospel.

>> Barry Maguire: With somebody right now.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you guys for being with us. Barry, thank you again. And so. And Brother Wallace. Thank you, brother. I love your heart, man. For God. And it. It was a blessing, wasn't it, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: well, folks, Jesus loves you. And remember, Jesus is as close by as a prayer. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. The views and opinions expressed in this.

>> Speaker A: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio. M.