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 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Hey there and welcome, welcome, welcome. We are so glad to have you here today. Welcome to my favorite time of day with some of my favorite people being able to prescribe Hope for Healthy Families for you. And that's what we're doing here. And now you may wonder what in the world is that background noise, Jessica? But it is actually the sound of a humming convention. I am at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention and I'm here live on the floor of the convention. And we are here with an author we've had on before, Lori Wildenberg, and we're here to broadcast straight to you. We are talking today about grandparenting. And today's families are navigating very complicated terrain. While the cultural landscape may look very different than it did a generation ago, these heart level issues have not changed. We have families who are longing for connection, families who want to have that connection but maybe are afraid of rejection when they have that connection. They want to be respected. They hope to be involved, but they don't want to be intrusive. And whether you are a grandparent listening and you are hoping to stay meaningfully connected, you just think it's great. I just want it to be even greater or it's not so good. And I want it to be better. If you're an adult child who is trying to set some healthy boundaries, but you want your kids to know their grandparents still, or if you're just someone who is experiencing pain or estrangement, I feel you that this show is for you, for all of you. And today nearly one in four grandparents provides regular care for their grandchildren. And this is often 12 to 25 hours a week. So there are some of you who are stepping into that parenting role. And research highlights that grandparents who are actively involved in caregiving actually live up to 37% longer. Is that, not amazing? That is definitely incentive to listen in. And so when what we're going to talk about today is even though times have changed, the technology, the cultural pressures, those family structures even may look a little different. The root issues are still the same. Hurt still hurts. And love still longs to be expressed. And wisdom, when it's offered with humility, is still a really, really big gift. And grandparents hold something very powerful that I am convinced about. They have lived experience. And when that is paired with self awareness, with humility, with respect for their adult children, this experience is a stabilizing force in families, not a source of tension. And so today's conversation, it's not about blame, it's about just owning our side of the relationship, whatever side that you are on. And I pray that you will listen in.

Jessica: Lori Wildenberg is the author of Grandparents Make Grand Partners

And today, right here on the floor, joining me again is Lori Wildenberg, and she is a licensed parent and family educator. Did you know there was such a thing? She's an award winning author, she's a national speaker, and she has spent decades helping families navigate parenting and grandparenting and generational relationships. And she does this with such wisdom and clarity and grace. I know you'll be encouraged by her. She is the author of Grandparents Make Grand Partners. We've talked about it on the show here before, and I thought we need to talk about this again because this is a practical and deeply thoughtful guide that will help you make a healthy, lasting impact. Lori, so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.

Lori Wildenberg: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be back and to meet you face to face. How fun is that?

Dr. Jessica Peck: It is so fun. In an online world, it's like we exist in the third dimension. And, you know, I think when families are listening to all of this, we see the rise of AI. Hey, we are two very real people. We are a mama and a, grandmama here who are just here to help you out. And Lori, today families are facing pressures that are unprecedented. We know that there are some things that are different. The cultural shifts, the mental health struggles, redefining family roles, all of these things. But underneath it all those emotional needs are always the same. So for your perspective, Lori, you're talking to grandparents all the time. You are a grandmother. What are the major things that you are seeing families face that grandparents are trying to navigate?

Lori Wildenberg: You know, the culture is really pretty tough right now, Jessica, as you look at how the forces of what's going on in perhaps education and entertainment, even medical type things, we're looking at the culture really making a big shift. And that is so hard on faith filled families that perhaps are going to butt up against the culture. I can look at my son and daughter in love and they've got kiddos who are entering school age and they're trying to navigate like, what do we do now? Do we send them to public school? Do we home school, do we go to private school? Do we do some sort of a hybrid? They're having to think through things that my generation didn't have to think through quite as hard. And as grandparents, we can be a great source of support and help and a stabilizing factor in a culture that has so many demands. And, it's a difficult time for parents to be raising kids. And I think it's important for us as grandparents to recognize it is a challenge and try to remember that. Because a lot of times we think, well, it's not that big of a deal. Or you know, grandparents have a perspective that perhaps parents don't have, but they also have an experience that we've never experienced. So like you mentioned, humility is really important.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's easy to say, but hard to do.

Sometimes we bring culture wars home to our families, to our grandchildren

And you know, I think when we look at the landscape and we look at the news, we hear so much about the culture wars and the things that we need to fight in culture. And there are destructive forces in culture that are coming to fight families. And one of the things that I see is sometimes as parents, as grandparents,

Dr. Jessica Peck: we're trying so hard to fight those

Dr. Jessica Peck: things out in the culture. Sometimes we bring that fight home in an unhealthy way and we forget to translate to our families, to our children, to our grandchildren who we're fighting for, and we start bringing in that, those arguments. We watch the news, we get, you know, irritated. And I remember one time having a very intense political discussion with my husband. We have four little kids in a minivan in the back and we were on the same page. You know, we were fired up. We were really like, just, just having this spirit of discussion. And I look back and my kids are in the back and they're crying and they're like, why are you fighting? And I think sometimes we just forget who we're fighting for. And there needs to be a different, softer approach to translate those efforts that we have out in culture at home. What do you see the challenges there?

Lori Wildenberg: What you're fighting for?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.

Lori Wildenberg: I mean, it's so easy. And even in terms of behavior, this is what I often tell people, parents when I'm working with them, we always know what we don't like. We know what we don't want, we know that just like, you know, you and your husband knew what you didn't like that you were seeing that was in the news or whatever. And we can get passionate about what we don't like, but what do we like?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

Lori Wildenberg: what do we want? Where are we trying to. What is our vision? Where are we going? And even down to, just as an example regarding behavior, you want to extinguish, let's say, so something easy. Let's say the child is standing up on a slide and you want them to not stand on the slide. You look at it and you go, I don't want that. Right, but what do you want? What do you want? You want them to sit on the slide?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes.

Lori Wildenberg: Ah. And that even goes on. I think that is kind of a life lesson even just what do we want? And is stated in the positive way. And I think that's where we can really help as grandparents, talking about what do we want? What do we want? Not just what we don't want, but what do we want? We want to value life, right? We want to love our grandkids no matter what. These are the things we want. We want good, healthy relationships. We want our kids to know the Lord. So I think for grandparents and parents alike, think about what do you want? And that's the thing to speak, because you don't have to speak about all the things you don't want. Better to focus on where are you headed? What do you want? What are your goals? And I know for me, I sure would like my kids and my grandkids and their spouses in heaven with me and with Thom. right. What do I want? I really want them to have a faith, a real faith, a relationship with the Lord. Not just rules, not just how to do stuff or the way to do it, but because they love the Lord, they want to act out in a way that honors and glory glorifies him to have a relationship. And you know, and I know that you've done a lot of research with this too, but there are a lot of young people who enter right around age 15 and it can happen as early as 11. But if you've only been in a rules based situation and you know you need to do this, this and this in order to be a Christian, what's going to happen? Even though the kids may know scripture, they may not know the Lord and they will walk away if they don't have that personal relationship. And I think that's really important for us to continue to keep in mind that the personal relationship is the thing that causes faith to grow, the relationship to grow.

Most Christian families want kids to have a faith that sticks

Dr. Jessica Peck: LORI That you've just echoed so much wisdom that we need to hear. Like let's just say it again and again because I think most Christian families, that is the cry of their heart. They want their family, they want their kids and their grandkids to have a faith that sticks, that faith that is real. And they want to be in heaven together forever. That is ultimately what we want. And bringing that down to a micro level, it's such a great life lesson because so often we focus on what not to do. Don't do this, don't do that. I think of parents and grandparents today, they want kids to get off their phone, but they say get off your phone. Instead of providing them a compelling alternative, let's provide them a pathway like get off your phone. And then what?

Lori Wildenberg: Yes, we have to replace the behavior with something else.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

Lori Wildenberg: Rather than don't stand on the slide, sit on the slide.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Exactly.

Lori Wildenberg: Say what the thing is.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes, get off your phone and come on a walk with me. Make cookies with me. And maybe they won't be that enthusiastic at first, but keep inviting them. And one of the things that I see from a lot of grandparents and parents is this tendency to kind of be dismissive. You know, like when we say, even the phone issue, like we want to say as parents and grandparents, the phone is so stupid. Just put it down. Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to say. I usually don't say stupid. But that's what we think about the phone. Right, I know, exactly. I'm sorry, I'll censor your kids ears, but that's what we think about it. Like, just put it down. Like why can't you put it down? Meanwhile, we're glued to the news 247 and we have these hypocritical behaviors that our kids see and sometimes we don't see.

Lori Wildenberg: You know, that dismissive thing really touches on something. and I have been that person. I've done that. So.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Me too.

Lori Wildenberg: There was a situation with my daughter in law. She's very good about being like early to something and time is a high priority for her. I kind of fall into the ish time, like 12 ish and 1 ish. And if she says 12, she probably means 11:45. And it's taken me years to figure this out. It's not that hard. But what that would tell her if I would arrive in my ish time, that she wasn't that important to me. Now, I would never want to communicate that to her, not ever, ever. She is so important to me. I love the way she loves her kids, my son and I love her. And I would only want the best. So I don't want to communicate that what is important to her doesn't matter because I'm more of an ish person. And so I called her up the other day and I said, I think I've been communicating something that I don't mean to. I think I've been actually making it look like it's not like you're not that important. And I said I would never, ever want to communicate that. Will you please forgive me? And I'm going to raise the bar. Do you know I haven't been late?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Are you, Are you kidding me?

Lori Wildenberg: Lori, this is beautiful that, you know, this is the humility, right? You have to have humility and you've gotta. But it took me a lot of years. I mean, they've been married a while, so. But God started to nudge me and like, hey, you know, this is a really big deal to her. Just because it's not a big deal to you doesn't mean. And that's trust building.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is trust building. Sorry, we're already at our first break. Can you believe it? I feel like I talked to you and it's just been two minutes. But this is exactly the kind of example of just a small shift in behavior to communicate. Hey, you are important to me. You are the priority. To me, you really matter. And we're learning that while the landscape has shifted, some of those things just meeting their emotional needs, being respectful, not dismissive, those show up to foster trust. And when we come back, we're going to talk about boundaries, influence. Don't go away. I'll be right back with Lori Wildenberg. We'll see you on the other side of this break.

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 : You're listening to the Doctor Nursemama show with Dr. Jessica Peck on American Family Radio.

Lori Wildenberg joins us to talk about grandparenting

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, everybody. So glad to have you back. I'm here with Lori Wildenberg, and I'm so excited to be talking to her about grandparenting. We've had her on the show before, had lots of emails from you all. I know this is an issue that is on a lot of your hearts. There are many of you who really want to be your good, great. Your good grandparents. That's hard to say, Lori. Your good grandparents. And you want to be great grandparents. And maybe you even want to be literally great grandparents and have more babies. I'm, all about it. Definitely love having all of the generations being born. Maybe you're at a place where you think, ah, it's, it's a little tough right now, or maybe it's a little new right now, or maybe you're those parents now and you're thinking, okay, we want to do something a little different. How do we tell our parents about that without hurting their feelings? These things are really difficult. And one of the most delicate dynamics that we have in families is navigating that balance between involvement and interference.

The kind of grandparent that we become often depends on how our adult children perceive our role to be 

And Lori, you say that the kind of grandparent that we become often depends on how our adult children perceive our role to be. Let's talk about this from the very beginning of that grandparenting journey. No matter where you are in that

Lori Wildenberg: line, you know, that was one of the things that is actually sort of surprising. So when I first started teaching, my grandparenting class at church, I had asked the grandparents about what sort of grandparent personality they might be and what has surprised them. I've got nine different ones identified in the book. But, what has surprised them about being a grandparent? And this is so spot on. One of the grandmoms said, I'm surprised at how much influence my adult child has on the grandma I wanna be. And it's true. Because if they see you only as, let's say, a babysitter, that's the function they're going to put you in, if they see you only as the fun grandparent or the cheerleader, you know, you might just get invited to games, but not to watch the children. And it really makes a difference, the type of grandparent they're looking for and what would fill their need and how that would apply to you. But no matter what slot we might be in, we can always work on our relationships with our adult children and our grandkids, and we can always keep our focus on the Lord so that we can continue, no matter what our role and how it's being viewed, we can continue to bring Jesus into the relationship. But I am a little different, Mimi, to one family than I am, to another. And part of that is because one family lives in San Diego. So we've got this long distance relationship and, you know, we visit and that sort of thing. And we do face time, but we don't ever stay overnight at the family that lives near us. We don't have that kind of time, but we get other time where we get to see them more frequently. So you are a little bit different with each family, and particularly the way each family, their system works. We've got one family that's really fairly flexible and open to late breaking information and doing things on the fly. And we've got another family that's very structured and scheduled. And you know that it's up to us, the grandparents, to be flexible, to be able to work within the system that works for their family and that works for their family, which is really important. Important for us to remember, again, not to be dismissive of that, because God has placed them as the parents of those grandkids. They are selected to be those parents. So they are the perfect parent. They're not perfect, but they're the perfect parent for those kids. And that is probably exactly what they need. So for us to always remember, even though we may have done it different, differently, we did it differently because we had our own unique set of circumstances, just as they do.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, that's something I want to dive into. Let's talk about that a little bit. Because when you have different, you have more than one child and you, you're being a different kind of grandparent for that different kind of family. I see two ways of this because the one way is the communication from the grandparents toward the family. And sometimes what I see is grandparents saying like, oh, well, you know, we can't do that with them. You know how they are. They've got to have it scheduled or, oh, you Know how they are, like, you know, they're just, they're up for anything. And there can be this kind of perception that then comes from the other side, like, well, you do that for them and you don't do that for me. But there may be different needs and different communications. You know, maybe you've got one kid who's sick or just starting a new job and you're doing more of the childcare for them or you're living close. How do you communicate? Communicate equity, you know, saying like, I love you all equally, but I'm showing you that love in different ways and not like, hit them against each other. When maybe one is more receptive to you showing them love than the other.

Lori Wildenberg: You know, it's just respect for each family and each individual. Honestly, I think that is really critical to remember, again, that God has put them in that position and to be supportive of that. So if, you know, somebody wants a little more heads up, you give it. If you're supposed to be a little more precise with the time you do it, and even if it takes you a while to figure it out, you know, you ask for forgiveness and move forward. Because why can't we be like that, right? I. I mean, we can be that person. We can be flexible and not to ever. My mom has been a really good, example of this. She never would ever speak ill will of any of her children to her other children. I don't think she would do it at all anyway. But she's very careful to always speak highly of each person in the family. And I think that we better be doing that as grandparents too, because you'd never want to have a, It's just important to have good relationships and to be respectful and to look at people the way God looks at us, like to love them. So, we have to be careful of that. And I also think one thing that could be a surprise to grandparents when they're trying to build a bridge, when they're actually stirring the pot. That might be, let's say you've been with one family and then you go to another family and all you do is talk about, the family you've just been with. I think that stirs the pot of jealousy. And it's not intended to.

 : To.

Lori Wildenberg: It's intended to create a bridge so that each family knows each other well. The intention is good, but the result, I think is not. So I think it's better unless they happen to ask you about the other family. I think it seems to me it might be More helpful just to be all in where you are and focused on that rather than thinking of doing that. Even though it seems like it could be a good thing, too much of a good thing is not a good thing. And that can kind of stir a little bit of jealousy. So I think that, excuse me. I think that is a boundary that we really need to be thinking of to put on ourselves. Like, let's make sure we're paying attention. And little things like, we always make sure we spend a similar amount on gifts on every single grandkid near or far. We're very careful about that. And that's another thing I learned from my mom. Just to make sure that you are doing that and it's not always going to be exactly the same, but I think if you can get in the realm, I think it's a lot smarter. because if you're in a situation where one family is getting all kinds of material gifts or all kinds of attention and the other one isn't, that's going to be noticed and it's going to cause a rift in relationships. So to be very careful about, particularly the gift giving.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lori, this is something we did not talk about last time, but I do see it as an issue in families is just that how do you be a different grandparent for different needs, different families in different stages without causing some of that jealousy? You know what I see sometimes too is that, say you have one sibling where the parent is there all the time and then you kind of have this quiet unspoken jealousy like, oh, they do all of this, but they don't do that for me. But maybe it's because this sibling and I had this kind of situation with my kids. I said, they just come up and ask me me, they just say like, will you do this? And I say sure. And you're not going to ask me for anything, you know, because you want to be independent or you just don't want to be a burden on me or whatever that's perceiving. Some of that, I feel like, is communication.

Lori Wildenberg: Yes.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But our kids pick up on that and they. And I think it's really important. A lot of it really lies in communication. How do we communicate how we're meeting

Lori Wildenberg: each family's needs, you know, that is so good. And I think the ability to ask questions like how can I be the best grandparent I can be for your kids, that's pretty open ended and they can. That's an opportunity. So yes, asking questions and having that communication and an awareness of what could be, I think is pretty important that I love that.

 Setting boundaries can be difficult when navigating multiple families

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, and that all has to do with boundary setting, setting healthy boundaries. Like, here's where I want to invite your presence. Here's where this is so hard. I find your presence a little intrusive. And sometimes I think even when you're navigating multiple families, sometimes you can come into one family, you know, one of your kids families, and say, oh, well, you know, this m. Your other. Your sibling lets me do this and this and this, like, and I want to do that for you. But then that's like, okay, well, that's great for them, but I don't really need that. My situation's different. How do we communicate the boundaries of, invitation? Like saying, here's where you're invited and here's where I need a little space.

Lori Wildenberg: Yeah. I think avoiding first saying that I do this with the other family, I think is probably one place to start. But the rest of it's good. Like, I would like to be able to spend more time with you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You.

Lori Wildenberg: You know, because maybe you're able to spend more time with the other family. But rather than say, we spend more time with them, you know, because we're invited to more things or whatever.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's passive aggressive right there.

Lori Wildenberg: I can hear it. We don't want that. Just say, I'd really like to spend more time with you guys. is there any way we can work. Work this out? But without doing the comparison? Even if the comparison appears well intended, it might not go down well. So I think to avoid that, and even within each individual family of your children's families, you don't want to do that to each individual grandchild either. So when I'm with one, I'm not bringing up the sibling of the other. I am full on paying attention to the one. And, those are things that I think can eliminate that idea of favoritism and it will stop stirring that jealousy. But that they know that you're there because you're there for them, I think is really critical.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lori, you're talking about your mother being a good example. My granny was a great example of this. I just. She's gone to be with Jesus. But I think about Christmas. Christmas time she had a dozen grandchildren and then a ton of great grandchildren, and she wanted to get everybody a gift. But, you know, she had very limited financial means. And so, Lori, what she would do every Christmas is you would go and you know that everybody was going to get the exact same gift. Like, whatever was the. It Thing for that. Like, whether it was a little Tumblr or, you know, I don't want to say any name brands because I don't want to shout out anything. But it was like a recipe book, you know, it was tool that was there. It was a simple gift with a Kohl's gift card that was on top, and you would pass it out and everybody would get the same gift. And it wasn't lavish, it wasn't expensive. It wasn't like, oh, we've got to outdo the other grandparents. It was, I want each one of you to know that I loved you and I thought about you. And she would write us a little handwritten card with it, you know, and now, actually, one of the beautiful things is that my children have carried on that tradition. They still give me a granny gift at Christmas. A little, you know, what's the it thing? What would she have given with little Cole's gift cards? That's so awesome.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But it wasn't. It wasn't extravagant. And I think sometimes in today's world, when we have social media, even as grandparents, you can look and see, oh, well, these grandparents, they gave their kids a ski trip to Vail, you know.

Lori Wildenberg: Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And that's way different than in a metal tumbler at a Cole's gift card.

Lori Wildenberg: But it was consistent.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes.

Lori Wildenberg: It wasn't extravagant, but it was consistent. And consistency is huge. That they know it really breeds belonging and security right there. Some basic needs that consistency. And that's why that was so cool. My grandma used to give us, Cracker Jacks.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, yes.

Lori Wildenberg: And so each grandkid always got a box of Cracker Jacks. And we knew it, and we expected it, and it made us so happy. Did you get your Cracker Jacks yet from Graham? You know, not extravagant, but consistent.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Consistent. One of the other consistent things that she had is whenever I would walk into her house, the three consistent things that would happen would be, she would tell my paw Paul to turn off the TV because we had company. So turn off the tv, we have company. And I would sit at the table. Yes. And feast on her attention. And the second two things that would happen is she was going to offer me a Dr. Pepper and a moon pie, like always. So it was always, sit down with granny, turn off the TV, have Dr. Pepper and a moon pie, and I would just feast on her attention. I didn't need anything more than that. And sometimes I think we make it too complicated in this world, you know, we just make it too complicated. But being available Knowing that I always had her attention, that I could always call her. There was one day, actually Lori, that she texted me for the first time from her flip phone and said, oh, that's texted me. And I said, who is this and who has my granny? Like, what in the world happened? And probably about 15 minutes later she texted me back.

Lori Wildenberg: You know, she had long to get back.

Dr. Jessica Peck: 4, 4, 4. You know, this is your granny.

Lori Wildenberg: Oh, gosh. On the flow phone. Oh, that was great effort.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It was great effort. And I appreciate the effort that, that you have made in your ministry, Lori, to equip parents to be great grandparents. And so tell everybody about your book, where you can find it.

Lori Wildenberg: Yes, thanks for asking. So the easiest place to go is Amazon. You can easily find it on Amazon. Grandparents make grand partners. How to have an eternal impact on your grandchild's life. Lori Wildenberg and loriwildenberg.com you can find more information about me and my other books as well there.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So, yes, and we're going to have you back to talk about that. We're going to be back after the break to talk about hurts that exist in the grandparenting sphere. Some really real hurts that I know many of you are facing. We will talk about those and we'll talk about what we're going to talk about in the future. We'll talk about prodigals. We'll have Lori back. But connect with her, Connect with her ministry. No matter where you are in your grandparent journey, grandparents grandparenting journey, know that there is hope, there is healing for you, and your grandkids need you now more than ever.

 : The AFR app is a powerful tool, but it does have limitations. You can't use it to change the oil in your vehicle or get rid of carpet stains. It won't walk the dog, won't pick up the dry cleaning or take the kids to practice. But while you're doing those things, you can listen to your favorite AFR content through the app on your phone, smart device or Roku. Just go to your app store or visit afr.net listen to AFR wherever you go with the AFR app. Podcasts of the Doctor Nurse Mama show are available on the podcast page at afr.net now back to Dr. Jessica Peck on American Family Radio.

Lori Wildenberg joins us from the National Religious Broadcasters convention floor

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. So glad to have you back here. I'm here with Lori Wildenberg. If you're wondering about all the background noise that is the hum of a busy convention center here at the National Religious Broadcasters, we're coming to you live from the floor. And let me tell you, this is a very encouraging place to be because here as I walk around, are all people who are invested in. In you. Yes. I mean you exactly, precisely you. There are people who are thinking about you, about the problems that you're facing, the challenges that you are facing, the encouragement that you need, the hope that you need. And I'm here with one such encouraging soul. You are such a great cheerleader.

Lori Wildenberg: Saying you just want your grandkids to be happy is fallacy

I'm here with Lori Wildenberg and she's the author of Grandparents Make Grand Partners Did I say it right? You did. Making sure. Okay, good. Grandparents make  Grand Partners I am all like in my head about great grandparents and grandparents and we'll make sure we get all of the words right. And listen, when you're listening, whether your relationship feels close or whether it feels fractured, there is hope and healing for every family. It is not too late. It doesn't matter if your grandchildren are grown or if your great grandchildren are here. You have opportunity. And one of the things in investing in legacy and one of the things that can be a pitfall for grandparents, Lori, that you've talked about is saying that you just want your grandkids to be happy. Oh, yeah. And that can be a pitfall because we're in pursuit of this happiness, of this picture perfect relationship. And we often talk about teens on social media, but I think grandparents are impacted too. That illusion that like, oh, you have a better relationship, relationship with your grandkids than I do, that hurts me. What encouragement would you give to those, those grandparents?

Lori Wildenberg: Well, the just want to be happy is of course a fallacy. Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Can we say it louder for the people in the back? We know it, but we don't believe it somehow.

Lori Wildenberg: I know, but look at all the wonderful things that can come from sadness or grief. We learn compassion and empathy. That's a good thing. We can look at, fear. Fear brings out the ability and the opportunity to be brave and courageous. We can look at anger. Anger is a secondary emotion and it is a great indicator of a problem. Not a good solver of a problem, but a great indicator of a problem. And when you look at that, that there's opportunities to problem solve because of noticing that something is out of whack and it's making you a little mad. So being happy is only a fourth of a life. Right. We want all those other emotions as well so that we can be a well rounded human being. If you're only happy, think about how would you ever, ever relate to someone who was going through a struggle or A hard time time. It would be more along the lines of, well, just get over it or pull, up your bootstraps. There would be no compassion or empathy. So being happy, we don't want to just wish that it's a low bar. We want our grandchildren and our children to have a full life so that they have a great ability to be brave and to stay problems and to feel compassion. We want those things for our grandkids and for our adult children. But what we can do is to come alongside during those perhaps struggles or fears.

Dr. Jessica Peck: When we use happiness as a barometer of our success in grandparenting, or in parenting for that matter. It's a pretty low bar.

Lori Wildenberg: It is.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And honestly, if that's all we're trying to do is make sure that our kids are happy, that our grandkids are happy, that they have the best experiences, that they have the most fun, which those things are important. But it goes back to what you were talking about earlier and being intentional and seeing what kind of grandparent am m I, what role am I filling? What do I want to be intentional about making my legacy for grandparenting. I know, Lori, that we have a lot of, of people listening who think, I really wish that things were better and maybe it's strained. And you have some really great advice. We talked about this last time, but I want to revisit it again because you have some great advice about, look at that empathy and compassion. Looking at that, even when you feel like I have done nothing wrong, they have hurt me because we do have a side of relationships that are too easily cut off. You know, that can happen. But what do you say to that grandparent who's just feeling kind of discontent, like it's not happy, and I don't know how to move forward from that.

Lori Wildenberg: Build the bridge. We want to build a bridge. And the very first place to start is humility. We have to build the bridge through humility or we will not get anywhere. And so what we have to do is a little self reflection and to think, where have I caused the break? Well, what have I done? Even if it's 40%, 20%, 10, 1%, 1%, we have responsibility and we can own it. And how better to build a bridge than to come with humility to someone and say, I can do better. I've noticed that I've done this. I'm going to do this going forward. Will you please forgive me? You know, and it's not, you know, I've done that. I've mentioned that, to you and it doesn't have to be some long, drawn out conversation. It can just be those sort of words and that approach and you can move forward now. You can't expect that whatever the issue is, whatever has kind of broken that bridge. And let's say you're only 1%. Let's say that's actually true. Let's say you're only 1%. Well, okay, you own that. And then you sort of hope that that will come back to you from the other person, that they will say their part. I think we just leave it at the foot of the cross. We go ahead and we say what we need to say, say. And then, however that person responds, perhaps in kind, but maybe most likely not, we need to be good with that and to leave it alone. and to know that the Lord, just trust the Lord with all that. And it sounds trite, and I don't mean it to sound trite because this is not easy. But when I have felt like, like I've done everything right in whatever, let's say with my husband, right. Done everything right and, you know, most of this is his fault. Let's just say, you know, let's say I've gone there with my brain.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Uh-huh.

Lori Wildenberg: I think the thing to do is just to close your eyes a moment and picture Jesus up on that cross. And that will totally change your brain. Because if you can see him. Hm. There taking it all and saying, forgive them for they know not what they do, that's going to change our heart because we can do that and just leave it alone. let the Lord work through that. Now we're specifically talking about children and maybe our in laws or our grandchildren. Marriage relationships are a little bit different and I don't want to discount that. These things need to be worked through for sure. But as you are the parent of an adult child, an in law or a grandparent, I think it's important to extend the olive branch and leave it be.

Dr. Jessica Peck: One of the. I hope, Lori, I hope that people who are in this situation who are struggling will literally rewind this program and just listen to what you said. Just, again, just that little spot. Because that is the way. Through humility, through owning your 1%. And sometimes I think what parents don't realize is that they did hurt their children. They didn't mean to. They never would have intended to for the world. They did the best they could with what they had learned.

Lori Wildenberg: Our children as their parents are, the parents of our grandchildren, will do the same.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes, yes, exactly. And I Think that I see grandparents that take one of two routes. They take the, they don't take the humility, own our, own our percent take accountability and leave that at the foot of the cross. They take these two routes. They take either route A, which is, we're going to have a sit down with you and your daddy's going to, to tell you you're not going to treat your mama this way. You know, the adult parents talking to the, the grandparents talking to the adult parents and having this come to Jesus meeting and you are, you, you know, she is upset and you are not going to have treat this this way and it's going to be like this. Or they don't have the humility and they just think, okay, well I'm just going to sit here and I'm not going to contact you. And you'll just have to come and realize one day maybe you'll realize everything that you're doing wrong and you'll come, come back. What do you see as the, the pain in that? And how can you encourage people to move forward, to build that bridge with humility? Because that's so hard to do, Lori. But it's the only way.

Lori Wildenberg: You know, when you, you cut people off and it's been characterized as, protecting your peace. I'm sure you've heard this. I have to protect my peace or I'm, I don't feel safe around you. These are terms that actually I think harden the heart because they don't lead to resolving conflict, they don't lead to reconciliation. And Jesus is all about reconciliation, as we know. Right. And, we would. There's so much, so many blessings into, in being reconciled, reconciled and to providing grace and to understanding that no one's going to do it perfectly. And if you think about every single biblical hero we have, no one did it perfectly but Jesus. And some of them did it imperfectly before they knew him or the Lord, and some of them did it imperfectly while they knew him. And I mean, we can think of Peter right, right off the bat, you know, and he knew the Lord, but he didn't do it at all. Right? And learned humility in the process. So if we can kind of sit back and go, what does God have in this for me when it's a difficult situation, And I talk about this in my book about prodigals messy journey, how grace and truth offer the prodigal away home sometimes, rather than asking why is this happening? Because that's the first question we want to ask, like why Lord I did it right. You didn't hold up your end of the bargain. You know, why is my kid in this situation? Instead, perhaps ask how. How can I respond in this situation that will glorify you and help my child? Ask the how rather than the why, and we can even think why not. Why wouldn't this happen? We live in a fallen world, and sometimes when there is difficulty, it could be that this is an opportunity for the Lord to help us figure out how to make it better. It's a problem to be solved. And if you can sit down and say, how can I be the best mother in law I can be? How can I be the best mom of your adult children? What is something that is helpful to you? I think you can have some really great conversations.

When we look back to the Bible, it is filled with family dysfunction

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you just reminded me of something. And thinking about how times have changed, but really they haven't. Because when we look back to the Bible, just like you were saying, it is filled with family dysfunction. Let's go back to Isaac and Rebecca having favorites, right? And then you see the, the rivalry that emerges between Jacob and Esau because each one had their favorite. You see David, whose sibling rivalry among his sons really contributed to the downfall of his kingdom and his inability to deal with his estrangement and his conflicted relationship with his sons that then led to his grandsons. I mean, we could go on and on and looking at the parenting and grandparenting relationships. And yet David was called a man after God's own heart.

Lori Wildenberg: I know.

Dr. Jessica Peck: How in the world is God's grace that good? And I think looking at the example. You are so right, Lori. No one did it perfectly but Jesus. But humility is the way forward. Praying, owning your percentage and thinking as far as it depends on you to live peaceably with others.

There are so many ways that grandparenting can bring joy

But there are so many ways that grandparenting can bring joy. And, and what are the ways, Lori? I want to know what are the ways that. It's been the most fun thing you've ever done.

Lori Wildenberg: The most fun thing? Oh, gosh. I think when we have our grandkids and our adult children at the family cabin in Minnesota. Oh, oh, we have. It's so, everything is fun. And that is all happy.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, that is all happy.

Lori Wildenberg: And happy is good. The happy isn't. It's, you know, as we talked about, we want the other emotions too. But everybody likes happy. Happy is awesome. And that is one of the very best things. And just like the little conversations, I had a really cute thing happen with one of my grandkids before we Go ahead and, have a family celebration. My dad had written a book of poems and they're pretty. And I will read one of his prayer poems before we Thanksgiving or whatever. And one of my grandkids came up to me and he said, mimi, I really like it when you read pops poems, to us. And I had, I had no idea. But it was the consistency as we talked about. I consistently do it and now it's part of a tradition and I didn't even know it was a big deal. It's just, I just like doing it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

Lori Wildenberg: And so I think those things.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Love that because that's important to point out because it can be so much fun. I'm not at that stage yet. I'm just on the horizon. I'm hoping that that's on the horizon for me to be a grandmom. I cannot wait for that. Lori, thank you so much for sharing with us your wisdom. I hope that you will get a copy of Lori's book. It's Lori Wildenberg. Tell us once again where to find you.

Lori Wildenberg: You can find it on Amazon. The book on Amazon, you can go to my website, loriwildenberg.com L O R I W I L-D-E-N B-E-R G.com to find out more. you can also find me on social media, Facebook and Instagram. I'm all over that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it. And as for you listening, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you wherever you are in your parenting grandparenting journey. Because if you're not a parent or a grandparent, you have a parent or you had a parent or you have a parent like role. And I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you. I'll see you next time.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Author and Speaker Lori Wildenberg talks with Jessica about the role of grandparents as partners to parents raising children and teens.

https://loriwildenberg.com/